sk-lore

[cunning wigeon]

W H A T

[frosty gate]

At this point, I can't even theorize shit, I just gotta sit down and wait until TC decides to lie to my face

"Yeah this is totally how it works guys!!!"

Wtv man sure

[cunning wigeon]

I absolutely adore the world they made, but the finer details do seem to just change when needed for the story

[frosty gate]

Specifically in Silksong

I keep saying it and people don't believe me, Hollow Knight wasn't this bad

The story was a lot more coherent and most pieces fall into place easily

And while the story of Silksong, by itself, works without much issue

[cunning wigeon]

Yeah, I think they focused more on callbacks to hollow knight than making new stuff for the story (specifically with the flower, nail shamans, and red memory). I understand why they’d do that since the fans like that sort of stuff, but it felt like a dark souls 3 type deal to me if you understand that.

[frosty gate]

Nah, let's not get it mixed

I love the callbacks, and when I first played I loved them

Red Memory, the Snail Shamans and the Flower by themselves are great callbacks

But there's no explanation behind them

At least there's nothing behind Red Memory to be explained

And the Snail Shamans are not weird to exists outside of Hallownest

The story added a lot of new stuff and expanded upon the old, it just didn't do it in a coherent way

[cunning wigeon]

Oh, I didn’t mean it’s weird to have them. I just mean it’s unexplained, like you said

I like callbacks too

I absolutely hated the Vespa part of red memory though, but I thinks that might be a bit of a hotter take

[frosty gate]

Why?

It was honestly old info being canonized, I really don't care for it

[cunning wigeon]

It just felt a bit unnecessary I guess?

Like, I have no care for the hive at all

I also think hive steel is a bit weird since it also wasn’t mentioned in hollow knight from what I recall

[frosty gate]

If Vespa is unnecessary, everything about Red Memory is

[cunning wigeon]

I think two major characters like herrah and white lady are a lot more interesting than Vespa

[frosty gate]

Vespa is a major character in Hornet's life

And this serves as confirmation for "Child of three queens" which is old info that was unclear if it was cut or not

It may not be a major character in the overall lore, but she plays the part she was meant to play for ages

And that's alright

[sinful nimbus]

nuke

Vespa says nothing of interest it just harms the pacing

Its also strange and contrived when the hive was an isolationist tribe in HK

To be honest I don't think White Lady was good either her dialogue is fake deep and kinda just exposition it really feels like they just wanted to bring back cut content from the first game

The Weavers and Herrah were good

[sinful nimbus]

Snail Shamans I think are interesting because Act 3 focuses on the powers that existed before GMS and they're wizards interested in power sources

But I agree overall especially about the flower and red memory (and you didn't mention it but void as well)

[frosty gate]

I mean they were anti Hallownest, we don't know how they dealt with the other tribes

[frosty gate]

The entire Red Memory harms the pacing, we should've gotten these snippets scattered througout the game instead of all together in a single spot

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet is affiliated with Hallownest and its attempt at perpetuation

These also aren't neighboring tribes or anything

[frosty gate]

I like flashbacks but I hate when they pile them all in a single spot

[sinful nimbus]

They were when HK1 was being developed which is when TC came up with 3 queens

It really just doesn't fit anymore after the hive was moved to kingdom's edge

[sinful nimbus]

Well a relevation caused through a flashback is kinda normal for stories

HK did that too and imo its the highlight of the entire story

[frosty gate]

She's more a secondary effect rather than a tool to be used

[frosty gate]

You mean with Birthplace?

[sinful nimbus]

Yes

[frosty gate]

It is normal, but you don't try to do everything at once

Let us take Birthplace as an example

Birthplace isn't one big flashback with info about 3 different characters in the Mc's past

It's a single coherent flashback about 1 singular thing

[sinful nimbus]

Its two related memories but if that's an issue you could just combine them by like having Hornet walk home to Herrah after the Weavers

[frosty gate]

Hornet passes out like thrice in this game

We could've gotten a flashback per black out

[near jasper]

Whats the current fight/topic

[sinful nimbus]

I dunno you do kinda have to make the memories come at relevant moments for it to hold emotional weight imo

[frosty gate]

But if you are saying that Vespa's flashbacks is irrelevant for the moment

What weight does it hold?

[sinful nimbus]

And this isn't a lore thing but from a gameplay standpoint I really dislike the amount of story moments as is (Silk hearts, unskippable cutscenes, Widow memory, etc)

[frosty gate]

And I'm not saying you are wrong, most people agree with it and that's okay

[sinful nimbus]

well yeah

I don't like vespa's inclusion period it adds nothing to the story

[frosty gate]

I dislike some because I don't think they're well place

You know where would have I placed a Vespa flashback?

[sinful nimbus]

You don't like final boss foreshadowing after beating up the second boss?

[near jasper]

Where?

[frosty gate]

Either after Trail's End (Shakra's storyline), or after losing to Shakra once.

Shakra's storyline is about finding her Mother/Master, it would make sense for Hornet to reminisce about her own Mother/Master after going through a mission like that

Since Shakra's storyline isn't relevant to the overall plot of Pharloom, it doesn't interfere with other plot points being developed

And it wouldn't hurt pacing because its all optional, plus it would be placed at the end of a storyline where Vespa has already been mentioned

[cunning wigeon]

I actually like that a lot more than Vespa being treated like a big thing in the red memory. It makes more sense to me to have that as a secondary thing

[frosty gate]

I'm sorry to say this but you are alone on this hill lol

[cunning wigeon]

Yeah, but I’m obviously right and everyone else is wrong

[frosty gate]

I don't dislike it that she's in Red Memory

I just don't care for it

[cunning wigeon]

That’s fair

[frosty gate]

I think each Flashback in Red Memory could've been scattered throughout the length of the game and it would have a nicer impact

Idk how we would get the Everbloom though

[midnight reef]

Yeah, Red Memory kinda does everything all at once

[near jasper]

Its weird an enemy being eaten by the putrified ducts dudes doesnt count as them being killed for the journal

[frosty gate]

You're not killing them

[near jasper]

Thats not how killing stuff for the journal counts

Dying to hazards counts

[midnight reef]

I dont really get why it gets hate though... overall I quite liked it

They could've spread out parts of it, with it all only coming together within Red Memory

[covert night]

red memory as one part is fine imo, there is no reason to spread it in parts. i also agree with the vespa take there

[frosty gate]

I feel like Flashbacks are better spaced out that dumped in a single shot, but that's just me

[covert night]

i would agree if red memory wasn't an endgame sequence

[frosty gate]

Wdym

[covert night]

red memory happens before the final boss, so one big flashback sequence is a better lategame material imo. also hornet takes the everbloom in her deep memory, so it makes sense to for her to have many deep flashbacks. and team cherry likes hype and aura moments so this is probably the best thing we can get from them

[whole holly]

do you guys think Sea of Sorrows will be turned into third game way silksong dlc was?

[midnight reef]

No

Sea of Sorrow was likely just an area of the game that Team Cherry planned to release alongside the rest, but it took longer than they wanted, so they delayed it

[whole holly]

that makes sense

[midnight reef]

that area seems mostly unchanged since 2021 ish

and Bilewater was cleasrly designed with it in mind

[frosty gate]

Hype and Aura moments not always equal a good narrative.

They could've made a big emotional moment for Hornet right before the final boss that wasn't a conglomeration of different flashbacks

[covert night]

i know aura moments not always equal to good narrative. like i said i agree with the vespa criticism. but overall i like red memory

[covert night]

not just one if they add lifeblood spire as a seperate area

[candid linden]

did hornet become a pale being in the end??

and is she a good or bad one

[gentle aspen]

that’s an enemy killing another enemy

not a hazard death

[gentle aspen]

presumably the ending entails being overtaken by GMS, which is a thing that can occur whilst binding, so she would be a higher being who would eventually repeat GMS’s actions

[sinful nimbus]

She absorbs GMS's crest which, in combination with her innate desire for dominance, makes her keep carrying out the haunting and stuff

Hornet: I'll not deny some part of me desires that outcome... Dominance, it seems, is baked deep in my blood, as too, no doubt, for the one up top.
And yet, another part resists... A part, over time, I find myself siding with more...
That part wishes not to** claim a monarch's mantle,** rather it would see my freedom regained, and this kingdom's bugs unshackled from their pale chains.

Caretaker:...Remarkable idea you're speakin' there, bellringer, a world cut free. Not a wish I've had much cause to hope on, serious like... but I ain't so surprised to hear you speak it.

🐌 😔

[candid linden]

so like

thats a bad ending

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah

[candid linden]

dang

i mean

well

[limpid summit]

Before act 3 was made it was this ending and another equally bad one

[candid linden]

whats the other one

cursed ending?

[limpid summit]

Well that too

But a cut ending that was basically this ending except GMS seemed more in control

[candid linden]

is that scrapped

[limpid summit]

You were originally going to activate the bellshrines in order to get weaver Queen

Yes

[candid linden]

oh

[wet walrus]

Vespa named Hornet right?

[frosty gate]

Yes

[near jasper]

Its weird weird Vespa meaning hornet for a bee Queen wasnt changed in the translation to portuguese

[topaz sleet]

Since pale king (higher being) and herra (normal bug/lower being) made hornet that means hornet is technically a mid being

[crimson patio]

I mean we don’t know if Vespa named her

We just assumed so cuz Hornet and Vespa

And she trained Hornet

[topaz sleet]

It was prob herra

[crimson patio]

(Which is kinda crazy if you think about it cuz wdym Herrah didnt name her)

[topaz sleet]

I assume the mother named her

[crimson patio]

Yea
Vespa naming her doesn’t really make much sense

[wet walrus]

It kind of does

In real world Vespa is the familia hornets are part off

[crimson patio]

Yea but narratively?

Herrah: You. You shall be called…. Uhhhh…. “Child”. Who needs a name anyway

[wet walrus]

Hornets also have striking resemblance to bees as they both use needles.

Even tthough hornets aren't bees

[crimson patio]

That’s cuz she was trained by Vespa

[wet walrus]

If I am not wrong this is the only moment Herrah was allowed to share with her daughter

Though it is weird she didn't name her newborn

[crimson patio]

Hornet was “permitted little time with her mother” doesn’t mean she doesn’t have some time with Herrah

[wet walrus]

I mean isn't the one we see in the scene the only time she had together?

[crimson patio]

And you’d think she would have named her newborn if that was the last thing she does

[crimson patio]

We don’t know

That could be a single scene out of the few months (or whatever the bug equivalent of month is) they have together

[wet walrus]

Besides who entrusted Hornet to Vespa?

[crimson patio]

Probably Herrah

[midnight reef]

not really

Sister of the Void was likely planned in 2020, though they didnt start work on the Abyss until 2022

And for awhile, there was Strung to Serve, Weaver Queen, and Sister of the Void as the three endings
Strung to Serve was going to be the bad ending
Weaver Queen neutral
and Sister of the Void would've still been the "good" ending

Up through 2023, iirc

This is just my understanding of Silksongs dev history, though

I still think that Weaver Queen remains the neutral ending- Hornet is changed by it, but how so is unclear

[frosty gate]

I just watched a man get murder what

What's the topic?

[earnest mica]

why does every bench cost money 😭

[near jasper]

Capitalism

[earnest mica]

bro the game is robbing me

[tawdry flare]

It’s a metaphor for capitalism

[finite schooner]

I am kind of confused with the true ending of silksong (spoiler ahead) : || so basically the knight from the first hk saves hornet from the abyss so that means he was not hollow after all? ||

[tawdry flare]

The Knight was never hollow, no. None of the vessels were

Well

We could start a hollowness/purity debate

But they have minds to think

[finite schooner]

What was the point of defeating the hollow knight if the knight was not hollow?

[tawdry flare]

To perpetuate Hallownest for a little longer

[finite schooner]

Dam

[tawdry flare]

The Radiance would have eventually broken free again

[finite schooner]

Oh alr that makes sense

And defeating the radiance in the true ending of hk should have stopped the infection?

[tawdry flare]

It does yeah

[finite schooner]

Alr thx

[frosty gate]

Wokesong

[foggy stratus]

Imo it’s not even really capitalism, it’s rampant as all hell corruption.

[spark valve]

It’s not capitalism at all it’s religious exploitation

The citadel and Pharloom as a whole isn’t capitalist at all, there’s basically no private property whatsoever and it’s certainly not what the society is structured around

[foggy stratus]

I think it’d be closer to like mercantilism, or whatever it’s called when the Government has full control over the economy.

[spark valve]

Mercantilism generally involves more foreign trade afaik

I guess you could call it that with the citadel relative to the rest of the kingdom sure

[near jasper]

Whats the point of having a bell shrine inside the citadel

[candid linden]

to make a settlement i guess

[frosty gate]

Considering its on top of Whispering Vaults, it was probably used kinda like a church or meeting place for religious purposes

[foggy stratus]

It’s name ‘First Shrine’ might mean it was like a proof of concept for the Bell Shrines. Or a prototype.

[frosty gate]

No, the prototype is at Atla

But it was probably the first one placed within the Citadel

[twin dragon]

the religious state owns everything basically

[frosty gate]

Why does this remind me of Rasputin

[twin dragon]

?

[near jasper]

Wait where

[frosty gate]

Idk, your sentence reminded me of his story, I might be misremembering

[foggy stratus]

I meant for like Bell Shrines. Like, that was the first and it was either to show that they could work for extended periods of time or whatever.

[twin dragon]

I mean

[frosty gate]

Where the Snare is

It's bare visible in the background

[twin dragon]

This is most likely a very early design

Its actual inception could've been the citadel as like

[near jasper]

It looks like the mount fay servitor

[twin dragon]

a chilling ground for pilgrims

[frosty gate]

Yeah, that's why I called it the prototype

[twin dragon]

but not sure if they would allow that

[twin dragon]

It's not even built yet shit's a blueprint i think

unless its almost invisible

[frosty gate]

It's a bell in the background and there's a seal on it

I would have to reinstall the game when I get back home

[twin dragon]

ic

[frosty gate]

I need to take my own pictures

[frosty gate]

They would allow it only if the chilling is praying

They did make a religious system after all

[twin dragon]

there's a bunch of space around the shrine aswell

It could've also been a melody base

[frosty gate]

A Courtyard of sorts, I'm convinced about it

A Melody base?

[twin dragon]

Could've contributed to the melody

or taught pilgrims about it

or this first shrine iteration could've been a test

before introducing the real stuff into pharloom

[frosty gate]

Maybe. I think it makes sense what you say about this teaching the pilgrims

Although, are Bellshrines stated to be 100% made by Weavers?

Actually nvm, they've got seals on them

I guess Bellshrines don't count as "Gilded"

[twin dragon]

posteriorely they could've been introduced by the conductors

[twin dragon]

Pious isamor is also made out of copper ish material

seeing how it's rusted

i don't think the citadel was barren at all

it just lacked luxury

but metals were used

[near jasper]

Wait

Pharlids live in barren stone

The weavers were just making a nest 😭

[twin dragon]

I mean the citadel

in weaver rule

[near jasper]

Yea

[twin dragon]

Not using metals would be kinda stupid

yk

[twin dragon]

the weavers arent pharlids

[near jasper]

Who caused the Bellveins

[twin dragon]

uh

my guess is probably the conductors

but its a shame that we don't know

As yk there's lore potential

It could've been like a place where old bells were diposited

and bellhart recycled them to make their town

[near jasper]

Yk whats weird

[twin dragon]

while simultaneously this place acted as a breeding ground for creatures such as bell beast

that were domesticated

but not put to use as the kingdom fell

[near jasper]

Sinners road gets passed by and has a branch for itself in the bellvein map in the menu

But theres no bellway there

It goed to fucking styx

[twin dragon]

No clue

But i doubt the conductors would allow the luxury

[near jasper]

What even was the point of sinners road

[twin dragon]

roach pens

[frosty gate]

I don't think Bells were necessary during conductors

Bell circulation probably started with Weavers

[near jasper]

Why is it called sinners road if its a dead end except bilewater

[twin dragon]

i dont know

i genuinely dont

[twin dragon]

We don't know anything about the bellveins

[frosty gate]

Because if you don't toil yourself into a believer of the church of Weavers, you end up as a sinner

[frosty gate]

Yeah I know, I'm just trying to think of something

[twin dragon]

Yk

the connection between bellveins and bellhart would've been pretty cool

like

the citadel's waste

going to some use to benefit the pilgrims

everyone below the citadel is on their own

[near jasper]

Why are there even bells so large

Wait

Bellhomes are from shrine prototypes

[twin dragon]

nope

they dont look similar

the bells could've been instruments past their age

or

factory defects

[frosty gate]

Both could work

Also, Sinner's Road is not a dead end

Yeah, no one is getting through the Mist

[near jasper]

Bilewater is guaranteed death from stiltkin

The mist is litterally caved in by the time we find it

[frosty gate]

Yeah but there's a chance you could try to go in from Putrid Ducts

If you manage to avoid the Stilkin

[twin dragon]

I mean pilgrims couldnt've passed through the mist route as yk, phantom is there

[near jasper]

Which throws you into a a yard with a wall that needs double jump to reach

[twin dragon]

and we dont see any pilgrims on their way there either

[frosty gate]

I'm not saying its a good way, I'm saying its still a Road despite the paths leading to death

[twin dragon]

But it seems like nobody has attempted this even

[frosty gate]

There are plenty of flying bugs

[near jasper]

They wanted to die in battle so techinically theoretically she mightve spared a pilgrims

[twin dragon]

The door was sealed i think

but i dont remember

[frosty gate]

Don't we see Pilgrims killed by the Stilkin?

[near jasper]

Because its not even an intended Path into the citadel

[twin dragon]

Yeah stilkin

but not near the mist

or phantom

[twin dragon]

You would expect some to take the risk

[near jasper]

No one knows of the risk

Every way into there is caved in by when we reach it

[twin dragon]

its also weird because

[frosty gate]

Yeah

[twin dragon]

every access point

[frosty gate]

Some tried

[twin dragon]

is a breakable wall

which implies nothing has gone through that point till we did it

[lone folio]

Isn't there one covetious pilgrim that's still alive in bilewater?

[near jasper]

How does a silkfly fuck up so bad it gets thrown to Phantom for waste disposal

[near jasper]

In the shakra camp

[foggy stratus]

There’s a more messed up excuse. Instead of it being caved in, it was never meant to be accessible after Phantom was put in. The Citadel sealed it off.

[frosty gate]

Also, there is a Bellway in Bilewater

[twin dragon]

I mean in sinners road

[frosty gate]

And a Citadel Bench

[twin dragon]

it seems like a natural-ish wall too

[twin dragon]

this is interesting

Bellways were sinful for pilgrims soo

what would the big steins at the top need them at bilewater for

[frosty gate]

Oh the answer is actually stupid

It's right next to the Organ

[near jasper]

Throwing rocks at Phantom station

[twin dragon]

there's also an elevator leading down there but still

[frosty gate]

Who even put an Elevator for Phantom like

[foggy stratus]

I think it’s more for people to give her Silk.

[near jasper]

Wait can someone see what the shortcut from bilewater to ducts look like before you open it

From below

[twin dragon]

Phantom was specifically starved of it so doubt

[foggy stratus]

Phantom’s silk ass probably is too light to press down the pressure plate to open.

[foggy stratus]

Really?

[twin dragon]

yeah

she's decaying

[foggy stratus]

I always figured it was because the Citadel fell silent and people weren’t around to refuel her.

[near jasper]

The haunted keep working

[unique tangle]

shakra's camp is also a pilgrim camp

[near jasper]

If someone was supllying her they wouldnt stop unless needed

[unique tangle]

you can see that the pilgrims set it up

[foggy stratus]

There’s like no one doing anything in the Citadel until Hornet shows up and a fuck ton of Silk descends into it tho.

[twin dragon]

They slowly died out

i mean we don't know if phantom was refuelled

there's silk right to her arena

maybe she wants to end it all

[near jasper]

Most the silk there doesnt even give soul

[twin dragon]

it does

they're spools

[near jasper]

Btw

What the fuck is the wraith needolin dialogue meant to mean

[twin dragon]

She might be protecting the place

[near jasper]

From what

Theres no entrace

[twin dragon]

I mean if one were to go through the mist

there is

[near jasper]

The only thing getting in the mists is smog

[twin dragon]

Disincouraging pilgrims

from going further

into the mist

[near jasper]

"Those who wander... will die..." They say while being the only enemy in the mist

[twin dragon]

Yeah

even without wraiths present

the pilgrims would still fall on some spikes and pop

[near jasper]

Btw thats not even singing

Its just them speaking normally

[frosty gate]

Yeah but she hasn't died. My guess is that they kept her fed with scraps

Enough to keep her working, not enough so she wouldn't be an issue

[twin dragon]

She most likely appeared as a precursor to the haunting

so her existence is recent

relatively

[near jasper]

We cant know

[frosty gate]

But that's how losers think

[twin dragon]

silksong if everything had 1 line of dialogue more about everything

[twin dragon]

Most likely

[frosty gate]

Phantom first child of Silk theory

[twin dragon]

since the citadel did something

[frosty gate]

I'm so convinced

[twin dragon]

while lace was born during the haunting

[twin dragon]

I mean technically she is

[frosty gate]

I mean before the Weavers

[twin dragon]

we dont talk about the weavers.

[near jasper]

How would a person made of literal silk survive being born in the citadel Without the haunting

[twin dragon]

fym

they dont need the haunting to survive

[near jasper]

Do you think no one would suspect a living bunch of silk is a sign the living bunch of silk that lives above you is doing something

[frosty gate]

My Theory is that Phantom was the first child GMS ever made, before Weavers. She didn't like her so she tried her luck with Weavers

[twin dragon]

In doubt they knew

[frosty gate]

Then shit goes down

[twin dragon]

its a surprise that lace is a silkborn to hornet

[twin dragon]

son

[frosty gate]

Something something, the Haunting starts and Lace is born with it

Lace and the Haunting come together that's for sure

[twin dragon]

Phantom would've starved to death lmfao

[near jasper]

How did Phantom even get a custom mask if the only way to mask maker passes the citadel where she was exiled from

[frosty gate]

Don't son me I will die on this hill

[twin dragon]

she carved it

[twin dragon]

wtv you say son

💔

[near jasper]

From what

[twin dragon]

idfk

anything

the mask is very crude either i dont think its that complicated

[frosty gate]

My full theory about it is that Silk kept her there for a while. Then Weavers took over and then kept Phantom fed as a slave

[twin dragon]

I mean she kinda served no purpose

and silk was valuable for weavers as they faded themselves out with its use

[near jasper]

How did silkflies even enter the mist

[twin dragon]

they ball

[frosty gate]

An eternal slave doesn't serve a purpose?

[twin dragon]

Yeah eternal but you need to give a part of yourself to feed a weak, marginally useful pair of hands

plus wtv they wanted to be done they did it themselves

[frosty gate]

You know they can just

[twin dragon]

they kept the pilgrims for singing only

[frosty gate]

Take Silk from GMS

[twin dragon]

Yeah but

[frosty gate]

There's a Loom on GMS

[twin dragon]

is it worth it when she does nothing

I mean her voice is fire

[frosty gate]

She's a slave and a reminder that you are the better creation

Weavers are that petty

[twin dragon]

Plus it would make more sense for gms to try smt different after the weavers

since the issue was lack of obedience

[frosty gate]

How

After the Weaver she was asleep

[twin dragon]

having a child custom made how you want them to be is better

for a despotic mother monarch

[twin dragon]

ehh

i think it is something tied to the haunting

my main interpretation of it is that it's gms's desires expressed while she's in this weak state

[frosty gate]

I would agree with you on that, but with the cards on the table, I have no reason to believe that Lace wasn't born the moment the Haunting started

[twin dragon]

Not the moment no

Somewhere in the haunting

phantom could've been the precursor

since the citadel was still active during the haunting

[frosty gate]

But that would make not sense thanks to

Drumroll

[twin dragon]

i mean when phantom was

around

not when the haunting dsuhbdhsafkidsaf

[midnight reef]

Z axis

[twin dragon]

but it does

[near jasper]

Was there someone working the exhaust organ before phantom

[twin dragon]

maybe

most likely actually

but it's irrelevant since random lung cancer pilgrim

[frosty gate]

The biggest piece of shit in the entire game!!!

!Wiki caretaker

[oak meadow]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Caretaker

Hollow Knight Wiki

Caretaker

The Caretaker is an NPC in Hollow Knight: Silksong.

Location

Songclave
The Cradle (Silk and Soul)
Ruined Chapel (Awaiting the End)

Role

Quest NPC

Tasks

Building Up Songclave
Strengthening Songclave
Silk and Soul
Awaiting the End

Affiliations

Chapel Maid (sister)
Bell Hermit (uncle)
Snail Shamans

Gender

Male

Actor

Benjamin Zarb

Singing

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/File:Caretaker_Sing.ogg

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/File:Caretaker_Sing_02.ogg

[twin dragon]

caretaker tells us abt lace in the haunting i think

let me check

[frosty gate]

Aye, bellringer! You've slain a marvel indeed... Well, flawed marvel, at least.
One to keep far from she was, least for us mortal sorts. Look of a child and a mind to match, but her's been up wanderin' this Citadel longer'n most. Even in its long silence, way 'fore you came and roused its ire.
Might'a seen herself this place's protector, keepin' it clean and quiet as she did. Course quiet meant most crossin' her path found a painful end from her pin.
I'd be sayin' thanks for the slaying, but with all the other husks now awoken and enraged, a bug's chances ain't grown by much.

[twin dragon]

Maybe she was born before the haunting

[frosty gate]

He says how she killed most of the Citadel

[frosty gate]

It's likely that there's a spot in time

[twin dragon]

Or maybe not

she slayed whatever remnants were left

[near jasper]

Wait

[frosty gate]

Husks don't find a "Painful end"

[near jasper]

Theres no citadel logo inside the exhaust organ at all

[twin dragon]

Whoever was still alive

[near jasper]

But everywhere outside it

[twin dragon]

plus

the citadel could've dealt with her in its prime

[frosty gate]

Not if you pair her with the Haunting

[twin dragon]

therefore

lace was during the haunting

[frosty gate]

No, that's what I'm trying to get at

What if Lace aided the Haunting to start and go Rampant

[near jasper]

Lowkey what was the point of the room the mists formed from

Theres no muck roaches

No nothing

[frosty gate]

We know it was the Whiteward surgeries that basically planted the seed for the Haunting

But there has to be a point in time where something happened

So that GMS could be fully unleashed

[twin dragon]

Lace was probably killing the pilgrims to keep the citadel quiet

yk

as caretaker mentions

gms mentions a child that wishes (plural for some ungodly reason) waking

[near jasper]

How did enemies even get there it was caved in with 2 husks like 20 minutes ago

[twin dragon]

on the gms plural topic

could it be all of the connected minds be talking?

[frosty gate]

Yeah, and that would be Lace

[twin dragon]

as if they were a big web

[frosty gate]

I'm pretty sure its a Royal We, but it could be

[twin dragon]

Well

there might be another case for this

conductors sucking ass at their job

[twin dragon]

nah can't be

[near jasper]

How would lace even be made before the haunting

[frosty gate]

Look the Conductors are very fucking stupid

But they wouldn't dare to stop the song

[twin dragon]

gms manifest

[near jasper]

How she was meant to be asleep

[twin dragon]

yeah but they seeped microplastics

plus

[frosty gate]

I think they came together honestly

[twin dragon]

they also kept worshipping the thing

indirectly feeding gms

it is a combination of factors

[frosty gate]

I'm still convinced that Whiteward was the seed, but not the exact start of the Haunting

[twin dragon]

god fucking damn sk lore IS hella complicated

[twin dragon]

Not just whiteward, residues aswell

silkroplastics

[near jasper]

Wait what if gms just manisfested lace from a dream like unn and mosskin and radiance with the moths

[frosty gate]

Eeeeh

[twin dragon]

from her inconscious state most likely

[frosty gate]

No shade to you specifically

But if TC pulls that shit, I'd be disappointed

[near jasper]

Valid

[twin dragon]

it's probably the song starting to weaken

and gms starting to recover

it gave her some agency

[near jasper]

We should put silksong back in development for 5 years to get a more conclusive lore

[frosty gate]

Right, I think there might be something about the Cogwork Core that messed everything up

[twin dragon]

The lore is conclusive enough

hk fans dont read

[twin dragon]

no its the conductors being dumb

the cogcore was never finished

[near jasper]

Source?

[twin dragon]

12th archi dialogue i think

never finished or started

[near jasper]

Which

[twin dragon]

anyways i gotta get some sleep

see ya my fellow literate hk fans

[frosty gate]

I think the line of events was

Whiteward surgeries put Silkroplastics into bugs
Something weakens the song without no one noticing
Thanks to that weakening, Lace is born
Lace aids GMS somehow into her starting the full haunting

[twin dragon]

Lace was a sign of the haunting

gms had enough agency to create a child

"agency" in the way that her desires seeped into silk

i think

tc can we get 5995 paragraphs on how this works

anyways cya

[near jasper]

Honestly how did bone bottom never get haunted

[frosty gate]

See ya

Oh yeah I gotta add Hivesteel to the Retconsong doc

[near jasper]

@ari gimbson can I have a 1500 word essay on silkeater lore

Please

Mother skong may I have some bellvein lore please

Why does the bone bottom and marrow path on the map go down where the weavenest would be

[lone folio]

There are more bells then there is void 😭

It's like the "there are more grains of sand than stars visible with the naked eye" but with bells

[near jasper]

How many holes did pharloom have before the bells got dropped in

[onyx pawn]

What if Sister Splinter actually is a sister?
Idk,
gms -> Nyleth -> ss
gms -> Herrah -> Hornet

[near jasper]

Nah

[lone folio]

The bells probably reach into the core of the hollow knight planet

[near jasper]

Pharloom has more bells than silk

[onyx pawn]

Like pilgrims, then. Just formality.

[lone folio]

I would love to know where those bells were produced

[near jasper]

Also not a single a bellvein was small enough the entire kingdom falling apart in act 3 made the untraversable

[onyx pawn]

I really hope that it's guys guys like the ancient nailsmith

[lone folio]

You would need an industrial machine capable of making thousands of bells a minute to supply that amount of bells

[onyx pawn]

Oops
Wrong reply

[near jasper]

Bell beast had tunnels big enough to fully ignore the kingdoms collapse

Bellveins are the mariana trench of pharloom

[near jasper]

Or find bell eater before it woke up

[onyx pawn]

After Silksong, when I enter a stag station and see a bell:

[near jasper]

Me and the sisters on our way to produce 35 million bells after putting god to sleep before leaving

[lone folio]

This is how bellveins look like

[near jasper]

Too tight

[lone folio]

I might be joking about it looking that way but the size is 1 too 1

[near jasper]

Its too tight

[lone folio]

Hmmm

[onyx pawn]

Idk why, but I feel like the Bellhome was made by Forge Daughter.
-# Or at least in Deep Docks.

[near jasper]

Bell hermit, Bell eater and bell beast never met eachother once

[marble oasis]

Bell eater and bell beast never met?

Are we sure?

[near jasper]

until act 3

Bell eater was asleep until the kingdom exploded

The bellveins are a full kingdom on their own

[onyx pawn]

Imagine the Bell Eater being the Bell Hermit's mount (like your Bell Beast), that has awoken because the Hermit has quit guarding them.

[near jasper]

It took every bellway being locked away from the rest of the kingdom and an active effort from gms to keep her safe from the things in the bellveins

[unique tangle]

why does bell eater eat bells

are they even nutritious

[near jasper]

Its stupid

[unique tangle]

whats the nutritional content of bronze bells

[near jasper]

4

[unique tangle]

no wonder its so stupid then

[onyx pawn]

They got too little (iron, copper?) in their body

A such hard shell requires a large amount of resources

[marble oasis]

Bell eater is the only creature to have red blood

[near jasper]

Its crazy the bell beast running through millions of bells of fully metal was still Safer than ventricas

[marble oasis]

Because of all the iron in the bells

[unique tangle]

holy detail TC

i didnt know they were educated like that

[onyx pawn]

wow.

[near jasper]

I didnt know there were things with red blood in australia

[marble oasis]

I JUST said bell eater is the only creature to have red blood

[near jasper]

Oh ok

[unique tangle]

at least they had carriages

unlike hornet

[near jasper]

If I ever get the silksong lore bible im going to the bellvein and silkeater Pages first

[unique tangle]

who doesnt even ride with a helmet

she takes those bells to the head like a champ

[onyx pawn]

Hornet: equips fractured mask

[marble oasis]

That must be why they nerfed the bells from doing double damage

[near jasper]

They did?

[onyx pawn]

wait... The Bell Beast bells got nerfed?

[unique tangle]

no dont say that im just stupid

they always did one damage

[onyx pawn]

Maybe "nerfed pre-release"

[finite wind]

What even is this area

Are those muck maggots?

And wawawawawawas?

[edgy nebula]

muckmaggots abd pilgrims

[finite wind]

I don't see any pilgrims

[edgy nebula]

the squirrm arent squirrm theyre muckmaggots cut in half

pilgrims

[finite wind]

Idk they wouldn't look like that

Bugs don't have skeleton in the inside

Not even like that

[edgy nebula]

bugs in hk do

[finite wind]

No not really

Which bug does

[edgy nebula]

skull tyrant wears a bugs skull

[finite wind]

How is that supposed to prove that bugs have an inside skeleton lol

[edgy nebula]

because hornet says as much in the journal entry

[finite wind]

I'll look at it

[onyx pawn]

The Marrow is out of bones

[finite wind]

Where is it even implied that the skull from skull tyrant comes from the endoskeleton of any other bug

[finite wind]

Do you guys understand what I'm talking about

[unique tangle]

so the wavy horns

[marble oasis]

fleas have half a muckmaggot on their spit that has the two amongus bones like that

[onyx pawn]

I suppose that there were non-bugs
Or just special ones

[finite wind]

Do you have a pic or STH cause idk what are you talking about

[finite wind]

Or they could just be heads from other exoskeleton of dead bugs. Lot of bugs have heads like that in the outside

Just look at basically any HK creature

[edgy nebula]

she comments on how large the skull is and then says she cant balieve bugs can grow to be that big

[finite wind]

My question still stands

There's literally no correlation

[edgy nebula]

"if not for the bones as proof i would scarcely believe bugs can grow to such scale"

[marble oasis]

they roast a muckmaggot if you don’t kill moorwing

if you do this is what the spit looks like

i can’t find the maggot spit

[unique tangle]

the longer tendrils and wavy horns

[finite wind]

Do you know what I'm talking about

[unique tangle]

i am now thinking that these were delibrate design decisions

[marble oasis]

Girl your father

[finite wind]

That's just one bone

[unique tangle]

to set this form of the knight apart from the LoS

[foggy stratus]

It’s literally in the Void at that moment tho.

[marble oasis]

A bone nonetheless

[unique tangle]

theyre called muckroaches

[marble oasis]

roach spit

is what i meant

[unique tangle]

zor they arent eating the maggot, the maggot is the small one

[velvet hatch]

longer tendrils is because they are in the void juice probably
and thats just the angle surely, but i do see a slight wavyness

[finite wind]

So not like the supposed bug inside the jar

[edgy nebula]

also you can see the roach cloaks and bodies if you look down

[unique tangle]

not just the angle

[finite wind]

True, I didn't see them

[marble oasis]

I told you I can’t find the roach spit but that one has two bones

[edgy nebula]

i believe so, clarify just incase

[marble oasis]

Okay here you go

Bang

Incontrovertible

[finite wind]

Nowhere in the skull tyrant journal entry is ever implied that the skull comes from the endoskeleton or exoskeleton of any other bug

Considering how every other bug head like the ones in the marrow are seen in alive bugs, and there's no hint ever of bugs having an endoskeleton in the head, I'd say those marrow heads are from exoskeletons goo

[velvet hatch]

that just looks like in from the front idk lol, i think youre overthinking it

[finite wind]

True

What bug is that

[marble oasis]

roach

[unique tangle]

?

these are clearly different horn designs

there's also the statue

[finite wind]

They are literally the same

[unique tangle]

which has the curved horns too instead of the wavy ones

[finite wind]

It just has a blur effect on

[edgy nebula]

with what i said before, coupled with hornet calling its head adornment bones, and its name being the skull tyrant, im pretty sure it’s a skull

[finite wind]

My point still stands

Or would you not call khan's head a skull

[edgy nebula]

peep the hollow knight vinyl

[velvet hatch]

well thats definitely exaggerated
i think it might be the blur effect, while i do see slight difference the overall shape is curved the same, maybe the little curve at the top

[finite wind]

If it was separated from its body

[finite wind]

Different angles be like

[edgy nebula]

tc is just inconsistent

[marble oasis]

this is an excellent example twin thank you

[unique tangle]

comparing the side angles too

the angle doesnt matter they are different

[finite wind]

Different angles again...

[finite wind]

It literally does

[finite wind]

They are the exact same

[unique tangle]

to rephrase better the angle doesnt matter as in ive shown you both angles of the horns

[velvet hatch]

there is a slight curve at the tip of the horn but who knows, maybe they just thought it looked cooler with a lil curve

[finite wind]

I'm both set of pictures you've shared they are the exact same

Just with a bit different angles

[marble oasis]

What about my pictures twin

[edgy nebula]

that’s tk, team cherry is just inconsistent with it

[unique tangle]

the thing is tho that as zor posted the wavy horns are a consistent design feature of the knight

[finite wind]

Same thung

[unique tangle]

ari knows how to draw wavy horns on the knight

he does it for the knights void spells

but in DnM he specifically seems to have not done that

and gone with long curved horns

[edgy nebula]

it’s js inconsistent this debate is irrelevant

[finite wind]

With pictures of the knight facing towards us, it's harder to tell how tilted his head is, because he's all black, so in those cases it's not possible to tell

[unique tangle]

and then in silksong again hes drawn the LoS with wavy horns

[finite wind]

But in every instance of the knight looking sideways, the horns are consistent

[marble oasis]

No they’re not

[finite wind]

Idk what are you guys seeing

[finite wind]

These are the same

[finite wind]

These are also the same

[unique tangle]

thanks but ill just discuss with zor and others about this then, if you cant see it then i cant help you ig

[marble oasis]

For what purpose are we lying

[finite wind]

How can we be so blind

[marble oasis]

I don’t see how you can possibly say these are the same

[velvet hatch]

i mean your theory has credibility, but at the same time there is the chance he just drew it differently for the sake of it looking cool or inconsistencies

[unique tangle]

idk if youre really saying that or not

[velvet hatch]

yeah definitely different horn shape there

[finite wind]

Oh I thought you were talking about the shape of the horns in the inside

[unique tangle]

like i think youre just being obtuse for the sake of it and its not really contributing to anything when the horn shapes are clearly different

one is wavy

one is curved

[finite wind]

The outer shape of the horn is different

[marble oasis]

Look mola you know I’m on your side but this is still an extremely silly argument to be having

[unique tangle]

yeah i know

anyways moving on

unless ari just forgot what the LoS looked like

when making the SotV ending

which is a likely possibility ngl

then the other option is that he made this change in design on purpose

[marble oasis]

I think in SotV it’s just the Knight’s Shade

[velvet hatch]

impressive to notice the difference regardless

[onyx pawn]

sorry, what's LoS again?

[marble oasis]

It’s not empowered by the Void rising up to fight or anything

[unique tangle]

but the knight's shade also has curved horns

[marble oasis]

Lord of Shades, TK with Void Heart

[unique tangle]

not the wavy ones

[near jasper]

Were watching the knight from hornets eye when we see them from the front in skong

[marble oasis]

Different from Shade Lord, the big dude

[near jasper]

Hornet was dying

[unique tangle]

it has horns even closer to the knights even

not the elongated LoS ones

[edgy nebula]

pretty sure theyre the same guy

[unique tangle]

its just shorthand to distinguish between the forms

[marble oasis]

It’s like calling Pure Vessel and THK the same guy

Yes but no

[unique tangle]

Lord of Shades for the DnM form, and Shade Lord for the EtV form

[crimson patio]

Erm
So at first I only brought up the whole “horn difference” because when people say “VGFocus flashing in SotV” is just Hornet’s hallucination because it looked different from Godhome VGFocus, I really don’t buy it

I think it’s just an artstyle change

[edgy nebula]

could very well be hornet’s hallucination but i dont think the design has anything to fo with it

[onyx pawn]

Yeah, a hallucination sounds like a sane explanation. I like its simplicity.

And what was EtV

[edgy nebula]

they probably just redesigned tk’s vgfocus form a bit

[marble oasis]

I know this is goalpost moving but the Shade of a Knight who just cracked his head somewhere is going to be different to the LoS Knight who reached its final form and fully manifested its will right before death etc

[crimson patio]

Funny that she hallucinate
Checks notes
Void Given Focus whom she has never seen before?

[edgy nebula]

which, fair, old vgfocus was a bit of an eyesore to look at

[marble oasis]

Rude

[crimson patio]

I mean it was

[edgy nebula]

they’re an uggo admit it

https://tenor.com/view/hollow-knight-gif-23741516

[crimson patio]

Looked too human and
Box-y for my liking

[edgy nebula]

can barely even tell what’s going on with the head

[unique tangle]

so wait what shade are you saying this is

its the LoS but not the LoS?

[marble oasis]

Like SotV shade Knight

[edgy nebula]

tk’s shade after death probably looks like that cause it was one of the first sprites to ever be made for tk

[marble oasis]

This is its life now as opposed to the Shade enemy who is an echo of a former life, just a ghost

It’s hard to explain

[unique tangle]

probably but we dont factor meta explanations

ari has had 10 years to change it

[edgy nebula]

we very well could cause tk’s shade after death isnt canon anyway

or well, coming back to fight it, atleast

[unique tangle]

yeah im not picking up anything rn

[crimson patio]

I’m sure they have better things to do than redrawing TK’s shade

[unique tangle]

do you mean like its the LoS but calmed down?

[marble oasis]

It’s canon in the sense that that’s what it would look like if the Knight died without achieving anything

[unique tangle]

something like that?

[marble oasis]

It hangs around in FC for a bit and then descends back to the Siblings

[unique tangle]

LoS in the DnM sequence is like very powered up and angry and thats why it has the curved horns

[marble oasis]

SotV Knight is “alive”, just out of the shell

Shade is “dead”

[unique tangle]

and when not angry and powered up it defaults to wavy horns

is that what you mean??

no?

[crimson patio]

So then was SotV TK very angry or what

[marble oasis]

No because the Shade has small curved horns

[near jasper]

He was napping and got grumpy

[unique tangle]

yeah i mean thats just what the LoS is

[marble oasis]

Mola is saying wavy horns is normal and convex horns is angry

[unique tangle]

what sequence leads to the knight breaking out of its shell but not being the LoS?

[crimson patio]

Pretty sure it’s the opposite

[unique tangle]

i dont believe that, i was just trying to understand if thats what Zor is saying

[edgy nebula]

not sure if tk’s horns turn straight when mad

[unique tangle]

dont take what i said there as anything

[crimson patio]

Idek if it’s related to being mad at all

[near jasper]

How does the knight get erect

[crimson patio]

Like I really just think it’s stylistic choices

[marble oasis]

yeah idk

[onyx pawn]

Does casting shade spells count as breaking out of shell

[crimson patio]

No

[marble oasis]

this sprite is throwing me

because this is what it looks like in game

[edgy nebula]

lost all their aura

[crimson patio]

More like
Cover yourself in void

[unique tangle]

it does actually look like that in most frames

its just the first impact frame that shows the wavy horns

[crimson patio]

Cuz if using spells/tendrils count as breaking your shell every time I fear Pure Vessel has broken its arm way too many times to count….

[unique tangle]

maybe the horns are just being blown back by the force of the spell here and thats why they just dont appear wavy past the first frame

[near jasper]

Do you think void tastes like black licorice

[crimson patio]

It probably taste like death as it eats your tastebuds

[marble oasis]

I suppose the horns of the Shade are a bit more malleable than that of the shell, like halfway to a tentacle, and so their shape isn’t fixed

[edgy nebula]

i think we’re just reading into it a bit too much atp

[marble oasis]

Infection tastes sweet and Void is its opposite so therefore it tastes bitter

Also it’s regret so it’s bitter

[finite wind]

I think at some point Ari just changed how it looked and since HK was rushed, he did not have time to go back and change everything else for consistency. You can also see this change in art by simply comparing the first cutscene in HK to some of the last ones

[edgy nebula]

sweet and salty

therefore void is salty

[finite wind]

The knight looks completely different

[edgy nebula]

which element in the silksong world is umame?

[narrow horizon]

in older versions of HK all of the dreamer monuments just had Monomon i think

[near jasper]

Lifeblood tastes like the generic flavor every Company gives the blue product ™

[narrow horizon]

or like

[unique tangle]

yeah its definitely more malleable when the knight does shade cloak or ddark its whole body distorts and merges together with the cloak too

[narrow horizon]

any structure that had their faces was just Monomon

[near jasper]

Soul

[finite wind]

That recently got changed, but the old promo art still has those

[narrow horizon]

yeah ik lol

[near jasper]

Actually no soul tastes like saltwater

[crimson patio]

Is this lore

[edgy nebula]

tk fixed the dreamer masks on the black egg doorway but not the city of tears fountain

[crimson patio]

The king just really favors Monomon

[near jasper]

I dont know

[finite wind]

Lazy devs

[crimson patio]

Ok I have question
When do you think the whole soul sanctum shut down by the PK happened

Before or post sealing

[edgy nebula]

so true

[near jasper]

Before

[edgy nebula]

before probably

he still wouldve shut it down after though

[crimson patio]

I see

[near jasper]

Do you think laces hair is easy to bite into

I feel like squirm meat would taste okay

[fallow wharf]

Hello Everyone!

[near jasper]

Karak shells could be made into a tasty spice

[marble oasis]

No

[edgy nebula]

probably only crustnuts

[marble oasis]

For all intents and purposes she’s indistinguishable from a normal bug

[near jasper]

Splinter meat is what you get when you make those gymbro meals with tons of proteins

[near jasper]

I forgot about that

I mean most karak stuff is made from the same coral itll probably taste like light crustnut

For the poors

Moss berries are like sweeter pears

Shellwood flowers are probably really good if you prepare them to stop exploding

Craw are chickeny

[fallow wharf]

[foggy stratus]

Might be toxic unless you manage to remove the spores.

[marble oasis]

Mossberries are insanely poisonous

[foggy stratus]

Literal acid in the pot.

[near jasper]

Sandcarvers taste horrible

[foggy stratus]

Naw man just cook em over applewood, low and slow. Trust

[near jasper]

Muckroach/muckmaggot taste unique if you can get past the tire texture

Silkeaters tasty very salty but theyre ok

[foggy stratus]

Muckroacks are an acquired taste. Like literally that’s what the people who give you the Tacks say.

Also I have a theory. The people of Hallownest are all physically stronger than the people of Pharloom because they carry literal rocks for journals.

[near jasper]

Cloverstags taste like brocoli

[foggy stratus]

Pharloom used fabric journals like whimps.

[near jasper]

Pharloom bugs are the same strength because they carry the original sin on their backs

[foggy stratus]

The OG sin ain’t shit compared to the 27 pound stones in Leaping Husk’s ass pocket.

[near jasper]

Drapemites taste a bit sourer than normal mites

[unique tangle]

the OG sin doesnt compare to the 57 precepts that Zote burdens himself with

[near jasper]

Zote is a powerhouse even without those

Its not a fait comparison

Lifeblood tastes bland

[foggy stratus]

No seriously Journals are pretty fucking heavy. Heavy enough to be used as a bludgeoning device at least.

[marble oasis]

FACT: Zote uses Life Ender in order to force himself to spare his enemies according to his precepts, if he used his bare hands he would kill them without thinking

FACT: Zote cannot be damaged, this is why he only pretends to take a fall in the Colosseum (only enemy to not be killed)

[near jasper]

Zote entered godhome and never dreamt once

Greyroot tastes raw even when its cooked

Stiltkin taste a bit moldy

The slab flies are horrible

[marble oasis]

greyroot crumbles into ash in your mouth

[near jasper]

The second you can taste it tastes like uncooked chicken

[edgy nebula]

greyroot kills you before you can chew

[foggy stratus]

Anything altered with Void tastes like oil.

[near jasper]

Lavalugs only taste good if theyre prepared in a painstakingly long process

[foggy stratus]

I just eat them blue rare.

[near jasper]

Skarrs are good for nutrition but most times there will be better options for you

Polip hearts you have to make sure theyre completely ripe unless you wanna be poisoned to death

[foggy stratus]

Even if they’re ripe you need to clean all the sap off and get all of the wasp thing out first.

[near jasper]

Driftlins are good but way too pricey to be worth it

The skill and imoba are pretty salty

Nuphar and leaf rollers have slight hints of cabbage

I think thats most enemies of pharloom done

Im going to bed bye

[ionic stump]

fertids taste like grass

[hushed pond]

hii

[onyx pawn]

Skull Scuttlers and their kin taste like dry bread
And Spit Squits taste like spinach with lemon acid

[slow dove]

real life fr just copied sk, the fleas in silksong got stollen and got turned into a vampire 💔

[wet walrus]

So Grand Mother Silk is a slave

[craggy smelt]

that would have actually been cooler

[edgy nebula]

sk-lore is channeling the power of bell hermit i see

[onyx pawn]

Bell Hermit and Styx would be great friends. The first calls others slaves, and the second calls others masters.

[jagged sun]

NO DON'T SAY THAT THE SHIPS ARE GOING TO START NOOOOOO

[onyx pawn]

k k

[low oracle]

Pretty sure that the endless ordeal shows he can be killed and little ghost simply didn't bother to end him. "A creature so pathetic it is hardly worth killing" or something was what the Hunter said about Zote.

[marble oasis]

Eternal ordeal isn’t canon

[low oracle]

Zote being powerful is? And what do you mean it isn't canon?

[marble oasis]

It didn’t happen

Zote didn’t secretly force himself into the mind of the Godseeker

[low oracle]

Yes, but it still doesn't mean that the regular Zote in the ordeal is different to the one in the real world.

[marble oasis]

Yeah he’s absolutely the same

He can summon all manner of freakish clones of himself infinitely

[stray fog]

This was the last patch before Sea of sorrows
It removed the conductor helmet from the blasted steps

Will they expand upon conductors in the dlc? 🤔

[wet walrus]

Do bugs have afterlife?

[near jasper]

Spirits glade is a thing

[dry compass]

craws dont make sense...

On one hand there affected by the haunting. on the other the jurors arent. someone explain pls

[frank dove]

Only some of them are affected by the haunting 🙄

Isn't it the same for most bugs?

If they want to they can just resist like the other pilgrims you talk to

[frank dove]

Would be cool but assuming steel soul is canon and 100% ending is canon, they are BOTH dead

[dry compass]

Damn

[dire lynx]

steel soul itself isnt necessarily the canon, but no deaths is

[loud wolf]

Wasn't sea of sorrows coming somewhere in like April like april 9?

[foggy fractal]

no

[brittle summit]

It's got no confirmed release date.

[terse warren]

Hey Andy

[foggy fractal]

hi!

hey guys

[covert night]

hey

[covert night]

it's tomorrow

[marble oasis]

Only Hell

[twin dragon]

They are

But like every bug mostly, it didnt prevent them to keep doing what they usually did

[frosty gate]

To be fair, even the Skarr lost it a little bit with the Haunting, the Craws are fully functional

[twin dragon]

eh

They start devoting to gms probably in part

or maybe the just lost karmelita's guidance

and fragmented

[frosty gate]

!wiki Skarr

[oak meadow]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Skarr

Hollow Knight Wiki

Skarr

The Skarr are a tribe of red-ant hunters, who inhabited the lowlands of Pharloom long before Grand Mother Silk's appearance. The aggressive warrior-tribe, trained from birth, make their territory across the lowlands of Pharloom, primarily Hunter's March and Far Fields: with a minor presence in Deep Docks, Greymoor, and The Marrow. The tribe ruled their lands for many generations. Under the leadership of their last song queen, Skarrsinger Karmelita, the tribe were united in service through her voice.

[frosty gate]

Had to check, the Skarr still think they follow Karmelita

[twin dragon]

do they?

[frosty gate]

"... Is this still her song?

[twin dragon]

They doubt it

and they still do their usual shit as a civilization

[frosty gate]

"The caves call... We listen"

[twin dragon]

what does this refer to

weavers?

idfk

[frosty gate]

I mean yeah, but my point is that the Skarr lost Karmelita but they think they are still following

Compare that to the Craw who all follow the Crawfather

[twin dragon]

Ehh

i'd vouch for them looking for her

Like they're trying to find her song once more

but they can't

[frosty gate]

If that's what's happening, there's no clue about it

[twin dragon]

Both of the dialogues you provided

Them doubting it is enough

[frosty gate]

I mean, the dialogue feels like they're entranced within the Haunting, they have some doubt if this is still her song, but that means that they were following GMS thinking it was Karmel, they're just unsure if its her or not

[twin dragon]

This is in part what im arguing for yes

[frosty gate]

Yeah but the point I'm trying to make is about the Craws

They don't doubt

[twin dragon]

Skarrs relied on karmelita's song

[frosty gate]

It probably has to do with the Crawfather being "healthy"

[twin dragon]

The skarrs still do the things that they used to do

without guidance now

[frosty gate]

I'm not saying they don´t, I'm saying they are less sane than the Craws

[twin dragon]

They aren't what

they would've probably drifted off without karmelita equally

[frosty gate]

But they think they still have Karmelita, that's the thing.
Meanwhile the Craws are still a fully functional society thats even capable of holding a Court

[twin dragon]

They're not sure

as you said yourself, they're entranced

[frosty gate]

My dude what is there not to get I'm very clear of what I'm saying

The craws don't doubt, they're not entranced, they're haunted but not crazy

[twin dragon]

Mate i understand

The haunting messed with the perception

[frosty gate]

They don't think they follow their original leader while also not following it

[twin dragon]

there's no one holding a firm grip on them

i mean, karmelita did

crawfather is still around

[frosty gate]

The Craws don't have their perception altered

[twin dragon]

probably because of the crawfather being around

[frosty gate]

Hence why they're more sane than the Skarr

[twin dragon]

keep in mind that the skarrs evaded the haunting with karmelita's song

[frosty gate]

Like I'm not trying to argue that the Skarr are less functional than the Craws

I'm saying the Skarr are a little more crazy than the Craws because the Craw society moves exactly the same and follows the same leader they've always followed

[twin dragon]

There's nothing keeping the skarrs united yes

[near jasper]

I dont think the craw court is haunted

Wait

What does clattorous mean

I cant find the definition

[frosty gate]

It is

[near jasper]

Crawfather actually speaking craw in his needolin the hell 😭

[frosty gate]

!wiki crawfather

[oak meadow]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Crawfather

Hollow Knight Wiki

Crawfather

Loading page description…

[near jasper]

Doesnt say hes haunted there

[frosty gate]

Huh, right

No strings on Jurors either

[near jasper]

Itd be weird for someone who knows that hornet is a weaver to be haunted

[frosty gate]

I don't think its that weird, but the Crawfather is a mystery to me

Like

How the fuck do you know

[frosty gate]

God I'm glad this image exists

[near jasper]

Crawfather would be an old heart if not for his civilization still functioning

[twilit pecan]

Imagine the song

[twin dragon]

does he?

[near jasper]

"spinderous spider"