sk-lore

[frosty gate]

I would consider that to be the Void trying to break free from the body its currently on (I'm coping)

Damn, that's ominous

Hope they're doing alright

[terse warren]

[terse warren]

Same

[whole holly]

powederedwater? hope they are doing okay

[finite wind]

I just realised this is the bug that was scared of bell beast

[foggy stratus]

Yeah.

[terse warren]

Yeah

[foggy stratus]

Ngl I miss having them here.

It’s too empty now.

[whole holly]

omg, that made me sad, i delayed calling bellbeast for good while

[foggy stratus]

But hey, you get a few free rosaries.

[frosty gate]

And to be fair, it's not controlled attacks

Void kinda just bursts in any direction

||Let us ignore the Chambers where void tendrils block the way for no real reason other than gameplay||

[frosty gate]

What even happens to that guy if we get to act 3 without scaring them?

[foggy stratus]

He probably still just dies.

I dunno.

[whole holly]

i didn't have patience for that but i am trying weird hacks(not technically) in game such as binding widow while cursed and getting cursed while plasmified

[frosty gate]

Sorry guys this got 3 likes and not 2.5 like I said so I'm not doing it

[whole holly]

everyone unlike it now

[frosty gate]

Throw me some other Retcons you remember

I'm gonna make it a Google Doc, but I'm not particularly keen on putting my real ass gmail out there

[novel sandal]

its weird how Herrah is a Weaver but her body is so diffrent

[frosty gate]

She was relatively changed during Red Memory so she looks more Weaver like in comparison with her look in the Og game

[edgy nebula]

wouldnt everbloom be an alteration cause it doesnt react to swimming in void in hk

[near jasper]

Having to use spore shroom to read fungal tablets

[frosty gate]

By definition this would be a retcon yes, I completely forgot this was the case

Its just that Hornet knows the language

[near jasper]

Yea

[frosty gate]

That is true

[spark valve]

No it’s not, in HK the tablet doesn’t even appear unless you’re connected to the hive mind it’s not a language barrier

[fresh badger]

Is Jiji Jinn's servant bc of the Zi/Sula dynamic?

[frosty gate]

It is a Language Barrier, you couldn't read any Mushroom tablet without the Charm, it was never stated it was something about the Hive Mind afaik

[spark valve]

It’s not that the knight can’t read it

There is no text

Nada

Empty space above a small circle on the ground

It’s not a language barrier for it to be impossible to perceive something

A language barrier would be the text existing and the knight not being able to read it (though the resolution to that being magical would call even that into question) what’s actually happening is the text not even existing

[frosty gate]

But with Mr Mushroom you can hear him speak, you just can't understand what he is saying.
I'll leave it as an Alteration, but I honestly think it's simpler that there is a language barrier rather than it being a Hive Mind thing

[spark valve]

Ok so you’re just gonna ignore the tablets

[frosty gate]

Let me adress them, I'm still writing

[spark valve]

Spoiler alert it’s not a language barrier

[frosty gate]

Nope, yeah I take it back, the tablet in Silksong disproves what I was gonna say

Also, Tammo, chill out

If the tablet was different, there could be an explanation

But it isn't, so it is an Alteration

[frosty gate]

Should we consider Greyroot an Addition or an Alteration of Info?

[foggy stratus]

What?

Explain.

What you mean

[twin dragon]

I mean

All of the 4-3 "infections" differ from one another

[terse warren]

i think you're missing the point that they all still feel very similar

[twin dragon]

There are only so many ways to potray infection

[twin dragon]

Voidheart sotv ending thing?

What do ya think

[limpid summit]

Hor “We do not choose our mothers” Net

[limpid summit]

I would say so

I guess it makes sense that a higher being raging inside void would mess up its behavior

But after GMS is dead TK shouldn’t have to destroy the tendrils it should just stop them

[terse warren]

yeah and they did it 4 times

[twin dragon]

She could be very well getting eaten away at that very moment

Whats left of her

Since we see the strings decay once hornet exits the liquid

But thats most likely for the sake of exposition

[twin dragon]

I wouldnt call black threading its own thing

[sinful nimbus]

Void haunting vs Regular haunting is basically Vengeful Spirit vs Shade Soul

The Haunting (and by extension its void counterpart) and Lifeblood being rehashes of the Radiance is pretty disappointing though I agree

[twin dragon]

Roided haunting

Though the bugs actually end up dying because of it

I like what they did with the haunting but not with lifeslop

Tc retcon lifeslop infection in sos please

[frosty gate]

What?

[twin dragon]

Nothing

Changed my mind

[deft wagon]

Are there any other groups like the Snail Shamans that appear in both Hollow Knight and Silksong?

[frosty gate]

It's an Addition if anything, it doesn't exactly break continuity

[frosty gate]

What about it?

[frosty gate]

Mr Mushroom, although not a group

[frosty gate]

I mean, the retcon would be to show us more abominations

I don't remember many big Infection abominations with Rad

The Infected fly where we get the charm maybe

Idk what looked like that because of infection or because they're like that

[frosty gate]

LET'S GO FOR THE FIFTH!!!

LET IT RIDE!

[stray fog]

Why do people assume that lifeblood infection parallels mean that lifeblood is an exact copy of the infection

I like lifeblood infection parallels, and they can be more like sister infections

Instead of an exact copy

[frosty gate]

I mean, we barely see any differences between the two

[stray fog]

Trust in the dlc

[frosty gate]

Aside from Lifeblood making them hit sponges

[stray fog]

Lifeblood might have void relations

[frosty gate]

They better make me trust

[frosty gate]

I gotta insist that those bastards don't really like each other

[stray fog]

Ancient Masks being made of pale ore
Does that count as an addition

[frosty gate]

Did Mask Maker say that?

[stray fog]

The item description says this

[frosty gate]

Oh right

[stray fog]

For a completed ancient mask

[frosty gate]

Yeah, it does as an addition

[stray fog]

And also the fact that skong mm uses pale lacquer

[frosty gate]

These are the Retcon types btw

Leaving it here before I eventually send the doc

[frosty gate]

I mean, I reckon its new info, but considering it a retcon is a bit too much

I consider these motivations stated in retcon's definition in Wikipedia to be what really defines a retcon

-To accommodate desired aspects of sequels or derivative works which would otherwise be ruled out.

-To respond to negative fan reception of previous stories.

-To correct and overcome errors or problems identified in the prior work since its publication.

-To change or clarify how the prior work should be interpreted.

-To match reality, when assumptions or projections of the future are later proven wrong.

Also, just remember, Weavers being Pharlids is technically a Retcon Addition

[pliant meadow]

Bro I think they're just different types of masks & techniques of creating them, not really a retcon

[limpid summit]

The Slab

Anyway okay let’s see

You already said Little Weavers

I guess Zi cemented that Steelhearts are always “Steel [role]” so Jinn being named Steel Soul is weird now

[frosty gate]

I was just writing that yeah

I already added it

[frosty gate]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

There's something with that you know

[limpid summit]

Pale Beings were sort of retconned in some sense of the word

There was like 1 or 2 mentions of them and they were assumedly just shorthand for PK and WL

[frosty gate]

Because Jiji is a Confessor and Jinn is a Steel Soul

Maybe they're like

What's the word I'm looking for

Preachers?

Not particularly preachers, but they're trying to convert people into being part of the Steel Society

[limpid summit]

Missionaries?

[frosty gate]

Yeah

[limpid summit]

Maybe in a sense

I guess they don’t talk about them derisively

Oh wait I have another one

Assumedly the Masters send Sharpe after anyone who misuses the void but it’s not like Jiji seems scared of that (even though canonically she probably doesn’t do it)

So that’s a bit of a retcon

[frosty gate]

We actually had a conversation about this the other day

[edgy nebula]

i think jiji is a professional Soul

[limpid summit]

“Yeah I’m a Confessor and my friend here’s a Soul”

[frosty gate]

Yeah, there's now a theory that Jiji is authorized on Void Usage

[limpid summit]

Not a bad idea

But what is she even doing with it

[frosty gate]

It makes total sense because like

[limpid summit]

Ig we don’t know what they actually do yet

[frosty gate]

Ain't no fucking way you coincidentally got 2 vassals of the same species controlling Void like that

Both with a Steel Servant

If they're keeping Vassals who can control Void, which is a fucking feat by the way, it's on purpose

[limpid summit]

True

[frosty gate]

By the way Sula probably is fucking dead

Zi knows that Sula used Void by the time Hornet arrives

If that's Zi, a Steel Servant

Imagine the Masters

[limpid summit]

Steel epilogue starts with Sharpe standing over a dead Sula

This is my stock

[frosty gate]

Bet everything on Sula being Dead

Honestly, the best way to introduce Steel Assasins is to show Sula dead in the same place

[blissful harbor]

instead of sula being dead
she uses hornet as a scape goat
she blames the summoned savior on hornet and the whole black threading

boom she gets away scot free steel assassins are on hornets ass

[frosty gate]

Would be cool, but I doubt they'd fall for that

Or better yet

"Yeah that's a cool story but I can't take any chances"

And then kill Sula and try to kill Hornet

There's also something to be said about how Zi only reacts to Sula using Void

Like, she has clearly been there for the Events of Act 3

She most likely sense the Shamans doing their bullshit

And she probably knows that Hornet is involved

Actually what the fuck Hornet downright confirms she knew Jiji

[blissful harbor]

i mean i see the steel masters blaming hornet for act 3 in some way the most likely for them coming to chase her

[frosty gate]

So "The vassal is tarnished. They have touched the dark." might mean somehting else

[frosty gate]

True, we'll have to wait and see

Zi also doesn't speak ill of Sula

Idk, this whole thing is is weird

[blissful harbor]

she’s just carrying out the masters will
they’re the ones who care if Sula messed with void

[near jasper]

Hornet isnt tarnished because she was wearing gloves while picking up void

[kindred ingot]

it's weird how the Surface Climb OST is called "Weaver Experiment 2"

maybe that has a lore reason

[edgy nebula]

it was probably reused from a scrapped sequence

fleatopia ost is coral gorge's ost for example

[covert night]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXxHFrpoVJU

[near jasper]

Yeah

The first weaver expirement track is apparently an early version of whiteward

[edgy nebula]

probably for the silk siphon

[midnight reef]

is whitewards, irrc

iirc*

[onyx snow]

any idea what the things that make the floor and walls and background are? is it dead bugs shells or stones or what?

[marble oasis]

old barnacles maybe

they look similar to voltnest

[unique tangle]

probably barnacles

theyre only found in the lower level of greymoor and form what looks to be a consistent water-level

which suggests that greymoor used to be flooded at some point, or had bouts of flooding

[near jasper]

Makes sense since its near bilewater

[midnight reef]

I mean....

oriignally Greymoor was right next to the Bay

like- the bay was accessed where Verdania is acessed now

[unique tangle]

We just have to accept that bilewater is a saltwater swamp now

[zenith copper]

you guys know how people go like "gms got her arm cut off how does she have it in the void" right

do you guys remember that she has eight because she's the Weaver Queen

[shy sorrel]

Is first sinner rly a bad guy?

[limpid summit]

First sinner is not evil no

She was likely imprisoned by the weavers at the risk of her spreading the truth about their origins for whatever reason

Well idk who knows how long she contributed to the citadel

She might have not been the best

[shy sorrel]

Why does he try to kill hornet instead of working together

[dire lynx]

shes still missing an arm in the abyss, the issue is that the arm that was cut off swaps from her left to her right one

[limpid summit]

She’s dead

Her vestige is testing Hornet to see if she can bind her

[sharp saddle]

She doesn't kill hornet she puts her to sleep outside of her prison cell

[shy sorrel]

Oh

but uh why doesnt she join her instead

[plain ruin]

She can't

She's dead, all she can do is test Hornet's strength and, if Hornet proves worthy, allow herself to be bound

[craggy smelt]

when she pops up at the end to be bound that's her literally joining Hornet

[twin dragon]

how is everbloom a retcon?

[twin dragon]

Because it's the same trope

Even if it were to be different it would still feel very similar

especially when it's an infection that makes its hosts go wild, produces goo and is presumably tied to a higher being...

[tawdry flare]

Because TC retconned it into that

[twin dragon]

I don't rlly think it is

It's added context

It's def not good, but not a retcon either

But uh

additions are a type of retcon apparently

[muted lantern]

Basically everything is a retcon by its definition.

But people mostly just use it in terms of the contradiction retcon

[terse warren]

Not really, only if you're extremely generous with your definition of it

[candid linden]

is plasmium related to lifeblood

[heavy solar]

it is lifeblood

[candid linden]

then whys it called plasmium

[heavy solar]

because if 2 different creatures find same thing in different kingdoms and name it

they don't give it the same name

[wet walrus]

Still

[frosty gate]

By definition of addition

[wet walrus]

Is there nothing left that could stop the void now?

The Radiance, the ancient enemy of the void whose light is brighter than anything in hallownest that repels the void was slain by the knight
Pale King is dead too who is the only one who could turn Soul into powerful light

[terse warren]

Like everything in this sentence is wrong

[wet walrus]

Explain

[terse warren]

The ancient enemy radiance is referring to are most likely vessels not void

[wet walrus]

The vessels are technically void

I mean Shades are directly void

Vessels are void beings

Also The Radiance during both fights repel the void

[terse warren]

Radiance is not brighter than anything in hallownest, hell she's not brighter than anything borderline since she's not even got a physical form

The light of a lighthouse was enough to tame the void in the first game so yeah

Soul produces light in general, it wasn't a thing only pk could do

My wifi is dying

[terse warren]

Because any light repels the void, or at least used to before retcons

[terse warren]

Okay? Doesn't mean the void itself is the ancient enemy, just the vessels

[wet walrus]

But do we have any confirmation for that?

Other than Hunter calling the infection "ancient plague"

[wet walrus]

Light is indeed physical though isn't a matter

[wet walrus]

I don't think hornet ascending from the void is a retcon considering in delicate flower ending the flower loses one petal after repelling the void that consumed the godseeker. Though what could be a retcon is the fact delicate flower only does it after seeker is completely hollowed where in ss hornet uses everbloom as a guard.

[terse warren]

Radiance lives in the dream realm. That's why she's not physical

[terse warren]

We have as much confirmation as void being the Navient enemy, except vessels being it makes more sense

[terse warren]

The retcon is that they say the flower is the ONLY weapon PK's family has against the void

Which is an insane retcon

[foggy fractal]

😔 retcon song...

[glacial warren]

The Vessels themselves aren’t the ‘Ancient Enemy’ Radiance refers to, but rather, she’s referring to the Void’s original will/consciousness, the Void Given Focus. The Vessels just contain pieces, slivers of that greater whole she’s able to sense.

[terse warren]

Except that we have no evidence for that

Like at all

It's much more likely she's referring to vessels

Especially considering the Knight doesn't take the Void Given Focus form during the fight

[glacial warren]

The Vessels are all entirely recent-era, new creations. Radiance is old as dirt to the point she predates all of Hallownest. For her to call something ‘Ancient’, by her standards, means we’re looking at something pre-Hallownest entirely.

[terse warren]

They aren't actually

[glacial warren]

Plus she’s never fought the Vessels before, save the one she’s trapped in. Why would she recognize the small, dead children as an ancient foe?

[terse warren]

They're old as fuck

[glacial warren]

She sees not the Vessels themselves but rather, the pieces of something bigger. The whole they’re part of.

[glacial warren]

Most of them did not survive mere minutes after their own birth, and only their Shades remain.

The Vessels are still post-Hallownest creations made by the Pale King and White Lady, so again, there’s not really any reason for Radiance to recognize the small creatures themselves as ‘Ancient Enemy’. They are neither ancient, nor has she fought any of them, save her mental conquest of the Pure Vessel.

[wet walrus]

Quick question
All hbs aren't born right?

[terse warren]

Yeah, but thk is the ancient enemy and so are all the vessels...

[terse warren]

They are ancient, hallownest is ancient, the infection is regarded as ancient, and they are the nemesis of Rad atp

[glacial warren]

Unsure. Some ascend into Godhood via conquest of another, as we see Hornet is capable of doing via assimilation of the Grand Mother, but most seem to naturally coalesce via the power of belief.

[glacial warren]

Even still, she herself is calling something in the Knight ‘Ancient Enemy’. Which means what she’s referring to is incredibly old even by her standards, meaning it likely refers to something predating all of the current conflict at hand.

[twin dragon]

does it state it is the only one?

[terse warren]

Yeah, White Lady when giving you the flower

[twin dragon]

I consider everbloom to be a retcon due to the fact that its never mentioned by the WL or anywhere in the WP

[terse warren]

That's not how words work, ancient could just mean they have been at odds for a while

[twin dragon]

It's such an obvious one aswell

Pretty sure radiance's dmn dialogues aren't canon either way

[glacial warren]

Yes but she won her duel with the Pure Vessel ages ago. Only the Vessel’s surviving husk and the Dreamer’s Seals are keeping her caged by this point. The battle ended eras ago.

[terse warren]

If we're about to have another convo about dnm or etv being canon I'm going away

[terse warren]

She has not won lmao

[twin dragon]

No not rlly

[terse warren]

If she had won she'd, y'know, have escaped??

[twin dragon]

Im talking about dream nail

DreaM Nail

[terse warren]

Oh, ehhhh

They're canon

It's her thoughts

[twin dragon]

They're scrapped iirc

[terse warren]

Even if TK wouldn't waste time dream nailing her

[twin dragon]

it's cut content

[wet walrus]

The only vessel she has ever confronted was Pure Vessel (who we now know as THK)

[terse warren]

But you can access them?

[twin dragon]

With cheats yes

[terse warren]

Yeah so vessels are her ancient enemy

[terse warren]

No I'm pretty sure you can dream nail her normally?

[glacial warren]

Most of the Kingdom has fallen to the Infection, her rival the Pale King is dead, and the Vessel’s husk is now mostly her personal joyride. The Dreamers and the Vessel’s chains are more or less the only things keeping her pinned down.

[twin dragon]

nope

you cant

i wouldnt be saying this if you could

[glacial warren]

You can in fact Dream Nail Radiance in both fights.

[twin dragon]

what you cant

the dn does nothing

[terse warren]

She hasn't taken as much of a hold as she'd like to, as we can see when you break one of the dreamer seals

[glacial warren]

She has a tricky Hurtbox to connect with but it’s doable in Phase 4.

[twin dragon]

I tried to when she's down but you can't

[terse warren]

That's

An animation

Without hitbox

[twin dragon]

True

[terse warren]

You can dream nail her during fight

[glacial warren]

Ye you need to hit her in combat for it to work.

[twin dragon]

but i assume it's not meant to be reached

[wet walrus]

Also the Knight is chosen as the shade lord after getting voidheart by the void. However he only becomes the shade lord after freeing the Hollow Knight by slaying the radiance. So The Radiance was TKs unfinished business as the shade lord.

[glacial warren]

Essentially during Phase 4, you need to wait until she teleports in such a way that her Hurtbox aligns horizontally with one of the platforms. Stand on the platform and hit her with the Dream Nail in between her projectile spam.

[glacial warren]

The Knight becomes Lord of Shades after accepting the Void Heart and breaking its Shell during the final confrontation, yes. Though still, Radiance is referring to the bigger creature the Knight is still only a sliver of when she recognizes an ‘Ancient Enemy’ in it.

[wet walrus]

I believe the hostility between void and rad is two sided and tk was a part of it in the fight.

[glacial warren]

Ye. The Knight became a new focal point for the splintered consciousness of Void as a whole due to possessing the Void Heart Charm, though something makes me realize Radiance likely came into conflict with the Void before.

Especially since the Vessels’ Shades are still only fragments, slivers, pieces of a much older entity given form and shape.

[twin dragon]

The later isn't elaborated upon soo

It's also hella weird that she specifically calls the void her ancient enemy and not the main perpetrator of her fall

[wet walrus]

ANCIENT ENEMY...
...I DO NOT FEAR YOU...
...LET ME BE FREE...
...DAWN WILL BREAK...
...THE LIGHT CANNOT BE CONSUMED...

She definetly was in conflict with the void before

[glacial warren]

She calls something in the Knight ‘ANCIENT ENEMY’, likely in reference to Void Given Focus, the Void’s completed, original form.

[twin dragon]

This is probably talking about the hollow knight seal

[wet walrus]

"The Light cannot be consumed" proves she is referring to the void

[twin dragon]

no?

not really

The void could be a semi hivemind

[terse warren]

"Let me be free" She is LITERALLY talked about being imprisoned in the vessel

[twin dragon]

she's referring to the entirety of it

The void was never completed

[glacial warren]

Not quite. The Vessels are pieces of a broken entity, fragments of an original will and mind.

[twin dragon]

the closest thing we got is the voidheart

[wet walrus]

Only in EtV and DNM the light is consumed
In THK and SS ending he only covers the radiance with void.

[twin dragon]

The sibling shades are fragments of their former shells

[glacial warren]

Less so a hivemind and moreso the remnants of a shattered mind.

[twin dragon]

She could be talking about that very moment in the fight

[wet walrus]

What about "Light will not be consumed"

[twin dragon]

not all her thoughts have to reflect either past or present

[twin dragon]

Those are the vessels yeah

eventually they could decay into the greater void

Presumably like the AC did but

we don't know

[wet walrus]

The void is literally coming at her from below

It is coming to consume her

[twin dragon]

Yeah she could be talking about this

[wet walrus]

And who controls that void at will?
Who is the Void's focus?

[glacial warren]

Ye. Methinks they manage to re-assemble into Void Given Focus in Godhome since Void Heart’s influence combined with Godseeker’s latent Attunement and divine properties allowed all those pieces to, under the Knight’s leadership as the Lord of Shades, recombine, essentially re-awakening the whole of Void’s original will.

[twin dragon]

She's talking about the present yeah

[terse warren]

The knight which is void is trying to consume her

[twin dragon]

but her other thoughts are referring to the past

[glacial warren]

Albeit this means they likely lose their individuality in the process, now that their consciousness has fused back into the completed form.

[twin dragon]

The void never had a will

[wet walrus]

Copying Massive Moss Charger

[twin dragon]

that's kinda their entire shtick

everything in contact gets absorbed

shredded

[wet walrus]

So it is the void who is the ancient enemy

[twin dragon]

The knight was able to face it and guide it under his will

The vessels are much more recent than the entire existence of the void

[glacial warren]

It likely did, once. There’s hidden Dream Dialogue in the Abyss, if you hit the Statue you got the Shade Cloak from with an Awakened Dream Nail.

[wet walrus]

Because the void chose him as the ruler as their lord

[twin dragon]

the void, in itself, is decay

[terse warren]

No

[twin dragon]

That's the AC

[terse warren]

[twin dragon]

that's an AC member

[glacial warren]

It mentions ‘Power…Without Unity…’

[twin dragon]

Yeah

the void wasn't ever united

[glacial warren]

How do we know this?

It never states there never was a will.

[twin dragon]

Because that's literally the entire thing the void is supposed to convey

[twin dragon]

Interestingly the hunter seemingly fucking

[wet walrus]

I am sure The Knight is Void's awaited Shade Lord

[twin dragon]

explains the origin of the void with a throwaway journal entry

Let me find it rq

[glacial warren]

Like in hindsight, the AC’s dialogue has one of two interpretations. Either it marvels at Void maintaining power even without unity, or it’s lamenting that the Void has lost power due to a lack of unity.

[twin dragon]

I don't really see how or why the 2nd option could be a thing

[glacial warren]

Either way, this dialogue suggests that the Void was united before at some previous, ancient point in the distant past, likely back when Void had active worshippers and was at the height of its power.

[twin dragon]

It doesn't

[wet walrus]

Yes. Tk is the shade lord. He gives the void unity and will. The vessels are only subject to his rule.
The void also comes from below during the fight seeking to consume rad

[twin dragon]

The AC was obsessed with the void

[glacial warren]

It sort of can’t really be pointing in any other direction here.

The word ‘unity’ is explicitly mentioned.

[twin dragon]

It literally is pointing anywhere else, there's no mentions of the void being united before

And yk, by what or who?

And there's nothing that implies such

[glacial warren]

The Void itself likely had a unified whole, the original will.

It wasn’t always this animalistic black pool that thrashes out mindlessly at anything passing above.

[twin dragon]

I don't know if the hunter is referring to the void specifically here

[random harbor]

Hunter's Journal: Void Idol

Hunter's notes:
"Inspired or mad, those ancient bugs. They devoted their worship to no lord, or power, or strength, but to the very darkness itself."
- Lemm

@theplasma used /journal name: Void Idol text: Hunter's notes

[twin dragon]

We don't get any detail if something has happened before to this void

[glacial warren]

He’s referring to the Shade here, the thing the Knight leaves behind when it perishes, its ‘Ghost’, so to speak.

[twin dragon]

Yeah

that's what it was

and will be

[heavy gyro]

"No lord or power or strength"

[twin dragon]

"Stain on the world"

Doubt he's talking about dreams

as dreams are a separate thing

and he can't see em

i think

[glacial warren]

No?

He’s talking about the thing we leave behind when we die. Our spirit, our remains. Or in this case, the Shade itself the Knight leaves behind in the event it perishes.

[wet walrus]

Or maybe it never had unity who knows
Dreamnailing this dude says "lord of the shades"
Either one of two
1- There have been a Lord of the shades before
This is unlikely since shades are most likely immortal and can only be killed by a powerful light

2- The shade lord is prophesied by the void and ancient bugs

[glacial warren]

He’s waxing poetic while ruminating on the Shade’s nature, trying to puzzle out this odd creature.

[twin dragon]

Clearly it does have some impact though, as he mentions how these remnants Might have some agency

But i might be stretching

[twin dragon]

Shades are a new thing

[wet walrus]

I mean other beings of soul and void

[twin dragon]

And they're fragments of the lingering will of the vessels that hosted them

[glacial warren]

The Shade does have agency to some degree, yes. It acts on its own volition and will even attack the Knight until reclaimed.

[twin dragon]

The hunter isn't exclusively talking about the knight though

But we don't even know if the shade is canon at all

[glacial warren]

The Shade is the primary focus of the notes, though.

[glacial warren]

He wouldn’t be speaking of the creature if he did not acknowledge its presence.

[twin dragon]

Ye that's the weird thing kinda

Respawning and the shade existing yk

[glacial warren]

Plus, he’s not the only one who acknowledged it.

[twin dragon]

Ye, ji does

or wtv shes called

[glacial warren]

The Colosseum has an entire chamber dedicated to housing such a creature, Jiji mentions your reclaiming of the Shade if you use her service to summon it.

[heavy gyro]

Some of his notes are random stuff that the knight attributes to its own experiences or knowledge

[glacial warren]

Hell, even the Collector interacts with it, as he imprisons the Shade in one of his jars if you die to him.

[twin dragon]

The shades are attributed to the vessel's death

[glacial warren]

This proves the Shade is not only present, but a tangible force other characters can interact with and move.

[twin dragon]

The shade itself is canon but idk about respawning

as, yk, thk just doesnt walk into the black egg again after dream no more

[glacial warren]

I think ingame deaths and the Knight resurrecting are part of canon, as this is what spawns the Shade and makes it able to be ‘Hunted’ and studied. Resuming a save after an ending is non-canon as this just rewinds time to before the specified event.

[twin dragon]

I can't see how deaths are canon

Most vessels died and their shade kept lingering on

their corpses are also there

[glacial warren]

The Shade is something you leave behind when you die, as per the Hunter’s notes.

[twin dragon]

Yeah

[glacial warren]

My guess is the Knight has a stronger will, allowing it to recover from a split shell and regain form, unlike its siblings. Hornet remarks that it has a ‘Resilience born of two Voids’, since it’s implied it ventured into the wastes outside of Hallownest and lost its memories.

[twin dragon]

I don't think a will can just materialize a new body man...

Just a guess

[glacial warren]

Actually wait I just realized. The ‘head’, the Knight’s mask, never explicitly breaks when it goes down. It pops off and is damaged, but never destroyed.

The only time the mask is truly, irreparably broken is after Dream No More and it ascends into the Lord of Shades, with the Void comprising its ‘body’ seeping back down into the Abyss.

[twin dragon]

The shade is presumably what's left of the knight, so yes, it does imply death

[glacial warren]

So my guess is the mask is what links the Knight’s survival. So long as it is intact, its ‘body’, being solidified Void, will regather under it after death, albeit in an ‘incomplete’ and weakened state until it defeats the Shade and ‘becomes whole’ again.

[twin dragon]

Even if the mask doesnt break and just drops

tk just rematerializes at a bench

i dont think you can call it canon

[glacial warren]

My guess is the Void drags the Mask back to the Bench once it dissolves into liquid form, and re-assembles from there. It retreats back to its most recently-used safe location.

In fact, I do find it curious that the game calls defeating the Shade as ‘reclaiming its power’ and, most notably, ‘becoming whole.’

[twin dragon]

That's a big stretch

[glacial warren]

Like the game depicts the Shade as a piece of the Knight.

[twin dragon]

Doesn't justify rematerialization

and i don't think tc would outright state "go n drink your remains"

[zenith copper]

[glacial warren]

I was just thinking since like. The words ‘become whole’ seem ironic after you realize what exactly the Void Heart does.

[twin dragon]

I don't think tk becomes whole

I mean with the void maybe yeah

but not absorbed into the mindless liquid slop

Also i don't think theres a way to explain how the shade mugs you out of your hard earned geo

[candid linden]

am I the only one who doesnt like the void animation frok the silk and soul quest

it looks weird

a flat circle in a 2d world

also how did it even appear

is it a floating circle

actually nevermind its good

[blissful harbor]

this is hella late, but TKs body is not solid void, it’s just a black shell

if it was, it wouldn’t be able to hold the everbloom
and also vessels without shades (their void) still retain the black part

[thin wind]

Steelmaster Zi and steel master Jinn in hollow knight and silksong is could be the steel bug or just born from steel

there is 5steel bug in farloom and that could be there first from

and what hornet distroy to get steel is actually there egg, each one is have diffrent size and structure

its could be for diffrent work

they have all talk about a same master

who can see everything, know everything and watch everything about them

that master could be the pale king

he can take those steel bug and turn them into his worker or hunter

Jinn have pay for ghost for recin egg and Sula maybe somehow know about this and steel one or many recin egg from Jinn to companies void, pilgrim and recin egg to summons his "saviour" cause recin egg can call the ghost soul back to him that mean recin egg is some how connect to each other

and it could be the arcane egg or the black egg u found in abyss

[kindred ingot]

wha

[wet walrus]

Is white lady powerful in combat?

O tragedy! This majestic god evades Our attunement with such ease.
We live only to serve the gods, to seek them out. Why does she frustrate Us? How does she hide from Us? Does she diminish herself by choice?
O majestic one, We beg thee reveal thyself! Our mind is so much less without you in it…
Dream Nailed: Pale mother... We barely dare to think. The chance of meeting is too rare.... but thine resonance! Could you be one of Them?

Why does she want to tune her?

[midnight reef]

The White Lady is a higher being that is extremely powerful in her own right, though in the game we see little of it as after her involvement with the Vessels shes seemingly intentionally diminished her power

binding herself within the Queens Gardens

[thin wind]

I think White Lady just like god of born and kindness

[kindred ingot]

the Godseekers want to attune every god, and White Lady is a Higher Being

[wet walrus]

Unn?

[kindred ingot]

Unn is also a Higher Being

[wet walrus]

They don't want her?

[kindred ingot]

they do tho

[wet walrus]

Hold on

[wet walrus]

You are actually right

Sleeping God, We can barely feel thy presence amongst the green left behind. What strength thee once possessed fades beyond time and tune...
Such magnificent scale, even in decline. If only thee could teach Us to grow so large…
Dream Nailed: Sleeping God, to see thee as thou once existed, with land and dream and devotion, We would give our mind…

Wait grow so large?

Why would godseekers want to grow large 😭

[kindred ingot]

it's probably not literal

like, grow in power and influence or smth

or grow the mind, since Unn dreamt the entirety of Greenpath

[whole holly]

they only succeeded in attuning Nightmare Heart/Nightmare King Grimm and Radiance it seems

[foggy stratus]

Yeah, only two actual Higher Beings they attuned.

[whole holly]

which puts Lifeblood Room in Godhome in question, does Abyss Creature want to attune?

[foggy stratus]

I dunno.

I currently don’t really think it’s a Higher Being since I don’t see much evidence for it being a Higher Being, but my opinion might change if we get more content on it.

[whole holly]

attunement isn't exclusive to higher beings, but i think scrapped attunement system in silksong cut content might be repurposed for Abyss Creature

i hope there is tuning fork like mechanism in Sea of Sorrows, it was really great

anyone has thoughts on this?

[foggy stratus]

Not sure if it’s something else but I just noticed in the space between ruined chapel and Bone Bottom, sound effects echo. Neat.

[whole holly]

are Soul Vessels made by Ancient Civilization? we know that Silk Spools are made by weavers

[foggy stratus]

Probably not. Nothing says they are and AC would more likely make some shit like a Void Vessel.

[whole holly]

AC made Soul Totems

[foggy stratus]

Well then I dunno.

Nothing says or indicates Soul Vessels are made by them.

[whole holly]

i already know that but i want speculation, or educated lore opinion

[foggy stratus]

There isn’t really anything to speculate on. They’re just there, like Pale ore or Geo.

[whole holly]

similar markings

[foggy stratus]

No really. The masks seem to use more thin lines and have several sharp angles while the soul vessel has thicker lines and exclusively curves.

[whole holly]

plus Soul Totems are similar to wraits

[whole holly]

wdym by that

[foggy stratus]

The designs are different.

[whole holly]

Soul Vessel and Ancient Masks design are pretty similar enough, in my opinion

[foggy stratus]

If that is true, which is kinda ehh, just because they look the same doesn’t necessarily mean relation.

[whole holly]

design is similar enough, just adapted to different shapes

[foggy stratus]

It’s just as likely in my eyes that the Shamans made them and they ended up getting spread around

[whole holly]

i mean Ancient Civilization does have technology to create them, if we consider Soul Totems and Ancient Masks

[foggy stratus]

Yes, but it doesn’t seem to make much sense. Why would the AC need to extend their natural soul reserves? It’s already kinda odd they made Soul Totems tbh.

Shamans on the other hand do need more soul reserves and it’s make sense that they’d make something to do that.

[whole holly]

to feed the void it seems, or something like that to unite with void, also they used Soul Totems to make Sharp Shadow spell, they likely used Soul Vessels in abyss shriek room

[foggy stratus]

Calling those soul vessels is a bit of a stretch tbh. It’s depictions of a face with an open mouth.

[whole holly]

may be effect from time or void, who knows

[foggy stratus]

Plus aren’t they depictions of bugs screaming?

[whole holly]

Shamans did make Charms and other tools to make casting spells easier, Ancient Civilization would make more sense to be creators of Soul Vessels

[twin dragon]

Maybe AC did need soul totems to survive down there

yk

[whole holly]

and Soul Vessels

[twin dragon]

I dont think we see any but

the ones that we collect might aswell be

[foggy stratus]

I’d be more convinced if we saw Soul Vessels in the Abyss, but we don’t really. And even for the masks, the only thing that links them to the AC from what I understand is them being called “Ancient Masks”.

[whole holly]

they are crafted by Pale Ore, but AC did have Soul Technology it seems when we look at Soul Totems

they clearly needed it for spells

[foggy stratus]

Wait what? Whats crafted by Pale Ore?

[whole holly]

Ancient Mask

[foggy stratus]

Does anything even imply that?

[whole holly]

"An ancient mask carved from cold, pale ore. The mask protects the wearer, guarding their shell against damage."

[foggy stratus]

Damn you Silksong!

[whole holly]

you don't like new information added?

[foggy stratus]

I like new info, I don’t like not leaning about it earlier.

[whole holly]

plus Pale Ore links craft to Pure Nail which in turn links to Ancient Nailsmith

it seems that Pale Ore might be from era before Pale King, White Lady and GMS

[foggy stratus]

(Just saying from what I could see most instances of Pale Ore are capitalized but in the AC SK description it’s not. Maybe nit picky but it also might be made from a pale ore and not Pale Ore. if you can find one where it isn’t I’d like to see so I can know if I’m wrong or not.)

[whole holly]

this is really bad argument, capitalization doesn't even matter, pale ore is said to be cold even in Ancient Mask description, also pale ore description states it is Rare, pale(without capitalization) metal that emanates an icy chill.

Lifeblood and Plasmium are same substance with different names

[whole holly]

there is no reason they would be different

[whole holly]

it is interesting they are found in egg like deposits

[whole holly]

i really don't see a reason why they would be different

[foggy stratus]

Pale metal is a descriptor tho. And I assume the Wiki took the description of it straight 1:1 from the game, in which case it’d be meta text which since in the prior game it seemingly was always capitalized, doesn’t really make much sense to not capitalize it here. And Pale Ore is a name. You capitalize names most of the time, that’s how English tends to work. Is it a bad argument? Yeah probably, but it’s still an argument nonetheless.

[whole holly]

other civilization other than AC that are implies to use Pale Ore are Mothkin's ancestors, given that Seer gives us Pale Ore and there is Radiance statue with Pale Ore

[whole holly]

it is mentioned by two people? Pale Ore is otherwise only even stated by Nailsmith and Item Description from first game, again both are described as cold so that invalidates argument even more, plus Plasmium and Lifeblood have different names and are same substance, your argument isn't even argument, it is just speculation

[foggy stratus]

What does lifeblood and Plasmium have to do with this? No honestly explain I’m genuinely not understanding why you’re bringing it up here.

[whole holly]

different names don't even matter to team cherry and are used to describe same thing, why is capitalization a big deal? Pharloom's culture may not capitalize pale ore because of cultural differences or it's hornet's own personal perspective of pale ore doesn't warrant capitalization, versus nailsmith who's work revolves around it and wants to capitalize it to show importance of Pale Ore in his craft

[foggy stratus]

But it would be meta text wouldn’t it? How would Hornet know that this mask from an entirely different region be ‘ancient’? And it wouldn’t be the sam substance under different names according to you, it’d be the same substance under the same with randomly different capitalization. And Plasmium is only called that because someone who didn’t know LifeBlood existed elsewhere named it that.

Ok I’ve spent way too much time here my laptop is almost dead now:(

[whole holly]

i already explained that it may be because difference of perceived importance hornet doesn't capitalize it because she doesn't view it as important compared to nailsmith who depends on it for his craft

[foggy stratus]

I’ve said it’s meta text, as in text from outside the character’s perspective. Like the description in the Hunter’s journal. If it isn’t then alright that explains it, but I don’t see any reason it isn’t meta text because a,) how would Hornet know what it’s made of and b.) how would she know it’s ’ancient’? And if it is from Hornet’s perspective then that gives me room to claim she is just describing it’s as some kind of cold, pale ore.

[dull agate]

So the herald, he's been to many places right?

Dying kingdoms

[whole holly]

it might not be inherently and solely meta text, but i don't see difference in capitalization to be important enough to warrant conclusion that they are different

[whole holly]

frankly your arguments are speculation so i will dismiss them

[dull agate]

I just did the quest and he managed to get the ice bird to come down , so is he like the Grimm troupe in levels of power?

[dull agate]

Isn't pale metal just pale ore

[foggy stratus]

Just out of curiosity do you read these any differently?
“Cold, pale ore.”
“Cold, Pale Ore.”
Like honestly do you think these mean different things.

[dull agate]

The ladder is referring to something important

The capitalization means it holds more significance

[whole holly]

only "Cold, pale ore" that we know of is indeed "Cold, Pale Ore", believing otherwise means assuming other pale ore exists which requires proof

[whole holly]

exactly, for hornet it doesn't hold that much significance, unlike for nailsmith who wants it to craft pure nail

[dull agate]

The first could be referring to any ore that looks cold and pale. The second is cold pale ore

[foggy stratus]

Huh? This is confusing to read:(

[foggy stratus]

Exactly, this is what I mean.

[dull agate]

So the second is said by someone who knows what it is

[foggy stratus]

(Is cold and pale, not looks cold and pale)

[whole holly]

there is no any other ore that looks cold and pale presented in game, though,

[dull agate]

The first is just a description of what hornet thinks it is (that's where this is from, right?)

[dull agate]

I'd argue craft metal is pretty cold

[whole holly]

yeah but she might be accurate guesser, but that doesn't matter

[whole holly]

not pale though? but where did you even get cold from?

[dull agate]

Not the point, she's precepting it that way

[dull agate]

It's a rock...

[foggy stratus]

We don’t see any other ore but we know other ores exist because the bench in Dirtmouth is said to be made of cold iron, or just regular iron.

[dull agate]

A nail smith knows what Pale Ore is

Hornet isn't a nail smith, and doesn't really care about that kind of thing

[whole holly]

i meant that we don't see other ore that is cold and pale other than Pale Ore

[dull agate]

The stuff used for the kings place

Whatever it's called

[whole holly]

yeah but that doesn't mean they aren't same, they can still be same and description used by hornet, matches the Pale Ore

[whole holly]

what is it called? though? do we know that it is made of metal? do we have materials name

[dull agate]

no it looks kinda like marble

[whole holly]

Pale Ore = pale ore

pale ore itself isn't mentioned enough times to warrant distinction between capitalization

[whole holly]

i hope you get my point

[wet walrus]

Who trained the hollow knight?
The Pure Vessel who hasn't sealed rad yet has unparalleled strength with the nail and can use very powerful spells. He can even combine both like his ground slam attack.

Could it be Pale King?

I can't think of anyone else with such knowledge

[whole holly]

i think so too, maybe possibly also Five Great Knights, Weavers

[wet walrus]

Only 2 of the great knights wielded a nail.
Weavers may have taught him rune rage tho

[whole holly]

yeah i think Dryya and Pure Vessel had similar fighting styles

it is a feeling

i hope Hornet eventually fights memories of five great knights and vespa too

[midnight zinc]

Definitely content for this game’s equivalent of Godmaster

[whole holly]

i am sad that Pale Court DLC was scrapped, i can't enjoy lore of mod because it isn't canon

[midnight zinc]

I mean the entire reason Silksong exists is because they couldn’t fit everything into one game, it makes sense for all the other cut content they wanted to show up

We kinda got an Abyss expansion, though no real Void bosses

[whole holly]

in a way it will

[whole holly]

gargantuan gloom should have been a miniboss since it pretty much is

[midnight zinc]

I’m sure we’ll get some Void stuff

[whole holly]

cephalopod molluscs boss in void would have been cool for sure

[midnight zinc]

Steel Masters are up to all sorts of shit it seems

[whole holly]

yeah

[whole holly]

true

Snail Shamans too but they are dead

[midnight zinc]

They were already the most interesting mystery in the first game because Jinn equates the Void Heart’s power to theirs, everything with SS’s new Steel content just amplified that tenfold

[midnight zinc]

I have a suspicion we’ll see more shamans

[whole holly]

true

[craggy smelt]

except for that one in Steel Soul

(plus if you don't count, like, the last boss)

[limpid summit]

PK probably taught them the spells 5GKs could have taught them to fight

PK was probably the one who taught rune rage

I think Hornet was talking about Silk runes rather than general ones

[surreal glacier]

What decides if a pilgrim joins the choir or goes to the underworks?

[candid linden]

why does gms protect lace

[glossy agate]

it's her daughter

bruh

[surreal glacier]

Last one

[candid linden]

I mean

well

why doesnt she protect phantom then

[surreal glacier]

She hates phantom because she is impure

And tainted

With [radiance] knows what

[candid linden]

hmm

[foggy stratus]

Pretty sure all pilgrims that go the way of Blasted Steps get underworks since I’m pretty sure the elevator doesn’t go up.

[surreal glacier]

Why does it go up then down tho

[candid linden]

what

[surreal glacier]

Typo

[glossy agate]

the elevator's broken

hornet "broke" it

i mean she didn't break it it broke it self

[foggy stratus]

To give the under mechanism the ability to open up. And probably to gaslight the Pilgrams into thinking that it’s their fault they ended up down there.

[surreal glacier]

Ahh…

[foggy stratus]

The Citadel is horrible. Hallownest would never do such a thing.

[surreal glacier]

Whiteward is crazy

[glossy agate]

yeah the trampasses can't harm no one

the people of hallownest are so poor they might aswell not use them

[foggy stratus]

Yeah. Imo way worse than Soul Sanctum. At least there you just died.

[foggy stratus]

[surreal glacier]

How

At least whiteward extends lives

Soul sanctum ends them

[foggy stratus]

In Whiteward you’re subject to various, likely painful, surgeries and if it gets rejected you just get thrown into a pit.

[tepid aurora]

Ahh, yes then to have your soul injected into some random dude who wants to think bettet

[foggy stratus]

Plus Whiteward very well could have made it easier for the Haunting to happen.

[glossy agate]

i mean isn't the practice of bestowing soul kinda try to make them eternal

[surreal glacier]

Oh wait…

What is the machine in whiteward next to the limo flies

[tepid aurora]

Wait a minute… silkflies

[surreal glacier]

Lumiflies

[tepid aurora]

Yeah what i though

[glossy agate]

lumaflies

[surreal glacier]

Perfect timing

[tepid aurora]

Pretty sure they are called silkflies in ss

[glossy agate]

yeah you're probably right

[surreal glacier]

What is the machine next to the silk flies in whiteward

[glossy agate]

but i mean so does plasmium

[tepid aurora]

Probably the thing who extracts them from peoplee

[surreal glacier]

Crazy how hornet doesn’t get an infection by injecting herself with other bugs plasmodia’s blood

[tepid aurora]

Probably because she is half pale being

[glossy agate]

no bacteria in the world of hollow knight

no proof

[tepid aurora]

There is probably

[foggy stratus]

Also the Injector Needles as a concept is super fucked up. Stabbing needles into the spine to inject silk deeper. Yesh.

[glossy agate]

are you saying that little bugs can exist in bugs?

[foggy stratus]

There is single celled life, however.

[glossy agate]

that's preposterous

[tepid aurora]

Because whiteward referece sickness

But thats maybe being old too

[glossy agate]

i mean you can be sick without any bacteria like the radiance infection or like having food poisoning

[surreal glacier]

I though they just treat wounds and shove silk into courses

Corpses

[foggy stratus]

They inject silk into living people and burn them if the silk doesn’t work.

[tepid aurora]

And extract silk form corpses

[surreal glacier]

Oh is that how the dregs get to Greyjoy

[tepid aurora]

But like why do that when you have a gigantic living loom on top of you

[surreal glacier]

Greymoor

[tepid aurora]

Probably

Via the mist i would think

[surreal glacier]

Also do u think moorwinh is a modified craw

[glossy agate]

nah moorwing is just fat craw

[tepid aurora]

More like a breeded mite

[surreal glacier]

The mist isn’t real it’s only in phantoms mind

[tepid aurora]

Is it?

[surreal glacier]

I think because it disappears when she dies

[glossy agate]

oh nah

[tepid aurora]

It disappears because she doesn’t play on the orgel more

[glossy agate]

moorwing is just a fat mite beast

[surreal glacier]

Perhaps

[foggy stratus]

It disperses after she dies because no one can tend to Exhaust Organ anymore. It’s a mixture of the fumes from the Organ, silk(probably) and copious amounts of LSD(joke).

[tepid aurora]

That would mean that most smog gets ejected to bilewater and the silk goes to graymoor

And why tf is putrified ducts higher up than the citadel? Its placement just results in more pumping

Just some random logical question

[foggy stratus]

You’re talking as if the Citadel was ran and operated by people with any crumb of intellect.

[tepid aurora]

No, its placement just feels weird. Like trying to tipp water from a gigantic can into a cup higher up

[foggy stratus]

Pipes can pump water into containers higher than itself. You know that, right?

[tepid aurora]

Yes, but it needs more power

Just a little nitpick

[foggy stratus]

My guy they use electricity in bombs and fucking portable Nikola Tesla death rays, I think they have enough power.

[tepid aurora]

Maybe

[surreal glacier]

How would you pet baby hornet

[foggy stratus]

Figure it tf out, she’s biting my hand.

[glossy agate]

why would hornet want to be pet, what is she battlebeast or smth

[surreal glacier]

Typical Australia life

Baby

She is so smol

[glossy agate]

do you pet your toddler sir

[foggy stratus]

I don’t fucking know she’s a spibder.

[glossy agate]

well that's fair

[foggy stratus]

And she’s still biting my hand.

[glossy agate]

hmmmm https://64.media.tumblr.com/82a34fae8355c15010e6f6d1f3d5537c/dbd1ad1f0a8521f9-9e/s2048x3072/2ad850b36a9b679a6a9387767ea00d89b9df6069.pnj

man i wish i had pic perms

[foggy stratus]

Very good thing the Void destroyed my pain receptors or else I’d be in excruciating pain right about now.

[glossy agate]

bro turned his pain receptors off

[foggy stratus]

No I literally don’t have them.

[near jasper]

"Dark... twisting... betrayal's heart..."

This is from the stiltkin needolin dialogue

"No truce... No bargain..."

This is from groals

[foggy stratus]

Ok?

[near jasper]

How do you get betrayed Without being in good relation with someone in the first place

[foggy stratus]

It’s possible that early on the Citadel told the Stillkin that they’d be left alone in exchange for something, similar to how PK and the Mantises worked out a truce, but the Citadel broke said truce and did what they did.

Or they say “betrayal’s heart” in reference to what they did to others. Maybe the Pilgrims?

[foggy stratus]

Also not necessarily a good relationship, just an agreement or truce.

[digital lark]

Tree

[foggy stratus]

Yes, tree.

[near jasper]

On the

[foggy stratus]

Any thoughts on it? Critiques?

[dire lynx]

this is probably about the shaman groal killed and stole the soul of

[foggy stratus]

Yeah it pretty definitely is.

[trail wagon]

are you saying they're different ores?

I think it's kinda.. silly, to be brutally honest

[foggy stratus]

Yes, I was saying they were different. Pale Ore and pale ore imo imply two separate things, much to Nika’s disagreement.

[midnight zinc]

Summoned Savior does not count

[candid linden]

was the song originally made by gms for the Weavers so they can sing and its likr worship to her

if the knight has no will

then how'd he choose to save hornet at the end of act 3

[floral venture]

I was talking about thk

[wheat locust]

because he does have a will, its not a deniable thing

[floral venture]

Thk has a will to some extent, but I don't think him containing the infection was a "choice"

[candid linden]

hmm

[wheat locust]

THK does have a will, he literally stabs the infection bulbs, goes out of their way to help you int he Radiance fight
and when you go into P4 and defeat them They look to you as they fade
And in P5 them and all other vessels look gather round

[candid linden]

I mean the knight

the players knight

[wheat locust]

TK? Yeah, he has a will

Void Heart literally proves this

[candid linden]

what is no will to break then

[wheat locust]

A complete fallacy

[candid linden]

no cost to great no mind to think no will to break

wow

[wheat locust]

PK didn't understand the Void

[floral venture]

The help he gives in the Radiance fight can be attributed to his purpose in being created, but I agree with the rest of that

[candid linden]

whats pk

[wheat locust]

He understood its fundamentals but didn't have a very in depth understanding

[floral venture]

Pale king

[candid linden]

will the ending actually be to be continued

[floral venture]

If he truly understood it, he probably would have harnessed it fully against the Radiance

[candid linden]

how does defeating lost lace set pharloom free

idk whats the correlation

and how come the radiance died and not grandmother silk

[floral venture]

GMS was staying alive in the void to protect Lace

[candid linden]

to the void

[candid linden]

sooo

[floral venture]

Whilst she lived, the haunting continued, but now imbued with void

[candid linden]

wow

and she died to save lace

why did she decide to be good now

[floral venture]

"defeating" Lace is more so us saving her

[wheat locust]

Because she loves her daughter

[candid linden]

did she not die at the end

to heal lace

[floral venture]

GMS? Yes

[candid linden]

yeah

[floral venture]

She was greatly weakened anyway

[candid linden]

why did she survive but not radiance

[floral venture]

She gave up her remaining strength to help us escape the void

[candid linden]

unless its because the knight killed the radiance

[floral venture]

She had a reason to survive

Willpower

Something like that

[candid linden]

so not the knight beating up radiance

[floral venture]

Well, I suppose there's that too

[wheat locust]

Because GMS had a huge ass cocoon to protect her, this Cocoon was made of an Equivalent of Soul which is extremely Powerful
GMS was also not actively being attacked by all of the void

[candid linden]

ohhh the arena is a cocoon

[wheat locust]

Plus, the Radiance had her eye hole like torn open while The Lord of Shades gashed at her

And then was taken up by the entire Void

[floral venture]

I forgot about the cocoon

That too

[solar gale]

Because gms was not being actively gashed up by the lord of the all consuming primordial soup

[foggy stratus]

That Void was far closer to the weaker un-unified form and she was able to partly ward it off.

[glacial warren]

Ye Grand Mother survived since she was only under siege by at worst Void Tendrils. Radiance has the full ire of the Knight/Lord of Shades, or in Godhome, the whole entirety of Void itself in the form of Void Given Focus proceeding to tear through her like wet paper.

[trail wagon]

I agree with the disagreement, this seems like a stretch to me

I do realize that some words have different meanings, like the word "steel" is often tied to steelhearts, but not always

[edgy nebula]

gms survived because she specifically resisted the void to save lace and even then she was at the brink of death when hornet found her

radiance was HEAVILY weakened when the void consumed her

also gms is a physical being made of soul and radiance is a being inside of dreams made of essence so it’s possible that had a part in how long it took for them to die

[shy sorrel]

I just got the cursed child ending and

What the hell happened?

is everything now a vine or just that one area?

[edgy nebula]

the root baby absorbs the power of two pale beings and grows greatly in strength and will probably wreak havoc on pharloom

[edgy nebula]

unspecified

[shy sorrel]

jeez

not as bad as the void tho?

[edgy nebula]

i mean, the void can be saved i dont know about the new root thing

[shy sorrel]

How hard could it be to slash a few roots

[edgy nebula]

probably not too hard, but probably a bit harder if theyre powered up by two pale beings

[shy sorrel]

Ok

[shy sorrel]

If you get the act 3 requirments and fight gms while cursed what happens?

[edgy nebula]

still think it triggers the vine ending

[shy sorrel]

dang

What even is the twisted bud anyways

[edgy nebula]

baby/reincarnation of greyroot, probably transferred her consciousness into it using witch magic and preys on pilgrims to stay alive if i had to guess

[shy sorrel]

Uhhhhh confusing but ok

how many groups of enemies are there and which group is the strongest?

[wet walrus]

What if Hornet didn't actually want to save Lace?

What if it was a bargain between her and gms so she can bind her silk and escape the abyss?

[craggy smelt]

she does sort've imply that she doesn't care about Lace herself in their interaction

Oblivion may take you, child. My own life, I shall not sacrifice.
and the journal even suggests that its more for the sake of Pharloom
To quell the mother's rage, and see this kingdom saved, I will claim her back.

I do like the last bit in the journal

This one... the dark shall not take.

and how it might suggest that Hornet feels that she's lost enough family to the Void

[wet walrus]

Grand Mother Silk isn't even her biological grandma let alone the mother of the weavers

Also what could lace even have for the sake of pharloom?

[craggy smelt]

there's more to family than the trifle of blood relation

[craggy smelt]

to quell the mother's rage - saving Lace means Silk will chill out

and that will end the haunting/black threading

[wet walrus]

I mean the only family she lost to the void are the vessels and pale king

[wet walrus]

Makes sense

[craggy smelt]

that's like a looooot of family

[marble oasis]

So like… all her family minus Herrah

[craggy smelt]

there were a zillion vessels

[marble oasis]

And even then she lost Herrah to the Vessel plan so it’s not like Void was uninvolved

[wet walrus]

Both her parents were indirectly killed by the light of the Radiance

Unlike her half siblings that got hollowed by the void

[craggy smelt]

I say if you lose like eight billion siblings to something
that's more than enough to make you think 'enough'

[wet walrus]

Which was indirectly caused by the Radiance as well

[wet walrus]

She lost the goat Garmound

Thats enough reason

[craggy smelt]

there you go

we figured it out

[wet walrus]

Why does Void in sk hollow more and kills less tho

[marble oasis]

I rescind this comment

“Void killed PK” in MASSIVE 2026 shame on me

[wet walrus]

Is the void actually regrets?

I heard people saying that

[marble oasis]

Metaphorically

[shy sorrel]

Why aren’t grand reeds or morticians in the high halls gauntlet?

[high bronze]

… you know I never really thought of that but they aren’t there

Maybe cause they have higher positions?

Like for sure reeds are guards, and morticians are kinda bounded to whiteward

The chorus clapper might be a more specific role to the chorus instead of the reed?

[shy sorrel]

I see

[shy sorrel]

Wdym? They cant leave the whiteward?

[marble oasis]

Well their job is there

Why would they be hanging around the Forum

[high bronze]

Yea lol

Also the people of the citadel aren’t really allowed to see what goes on in whiteward

[marble oasis]

Nah they all got Silked in there

[dire lynx]

Mortician
"A mortician is a person whose job is to deal with the bodies of people who have died and to arrange funerals."

[marble oasis]

But Morticians are probably only just above the Underworkers in terms of social hierarchy

[shy sorrel]

Why

[shy sorrel]

Yeah but theyre like stronger than some of the enemies in that gaunlet

[dire lynx]

ok?

[shy sorrel]

Like that short enemy with the bell stick

[high bronze]

Silk experiments and same logic with underworks. To not ruin the magic

[shy sorrel]

still would make more sense to send in those instead of that

[marble oasis]

Underworks yeah but pretty much everyone in the Citadel would have visited Whiteward at some point

[dire lynx]

the bugs in the high halls gauntles werent sent there for hornet, they were already there in the forum

[shy sorrel]

Oh damn fr?

[marble oasis]

They were just all awakened to fight her

Their corpses would have all been congregated there because it was, well, a forum

[craggy smelt]

cuz its mixed with the Haunting, via the silk threads - Void is following the Soul in the silk
it's not really doing to bugs what it did to the vessels, it's basically hijacking the Haunting to create the black-threaded bugs

[high bronze]

Idk, maybe the surface level stuff, but I remember reading a lore thing about messing with surgical silk stuff, and also the morticians are way deeper in

[shy sorrel]

What even is the ranking

[marble oasis]

Yeah they probably weren’t allowed into the crematorium

[high bronze]

All just speculation

[marble oasis]

They must have known about it though, sometimes your friend goes into the doctor and they never come back

[high bronze]

But you don’t see any normal citadel bug in whiteward

Idr if the unraveled has any in its projectiles either

[shy sorrel]

Like for the enemies

[marble oasis]

Either you get dreg husked or you recover and leave the hospital lol

[high bronze]

But even then, wouldn’t there be ANY normal citadel bug spawns in whiteward if they were allowed in there?

[marble oasis]

There definitely wouldn’t be any in the pit

[high bronze]

I don’t think theres much of a rank tbh a lot of bugs are normal citizens, the ones actually wielding needles might be hired, including reeds

[shy sorrel]

Ok

[marble oasis]

If I had to give a ranking it would be something like
Conductors
High Halls bugs
Vaultkeepers
Architects
Choirbugs
Pilgrims
Surgeons
…
Morticians
…
Underworkers

[shy sorrel]

These are the act 2 enemies?

[high bronze]

Reeds/clappers might be super soldiers, since they have experience with silk manipulation, maybe from whiteward? Or its just general training

[marble oasis]

Yeah

[marble oasis]

Not from Whiteward, it’s just a skill anyone can learn

[shy sorrel]

If bell beast is so strong why doesnt she go anywhere else except the bellways?

[marble oasis]

There are Silk dispensaries throughout the Citadel

[marble oasis]

That’s just her habitat

That’s like saying if sharks are so strong why don’t they go into rivers

[shy sorrel]

So bell beast will die if not surrounded by bells?

[high bronze]

Where does it say the lore of the bellways? I feel like i’ve turned the map upside down and i remember maybe 1 character in the game mentioned it in the beginning and then they died

[marble oasis]

No she just is best suited to the bellvein

That’s where she can dig and nest and hunt and all of that

We see the babies leave the bellvein just fine to come get Hornet

[shy sorrel]

Would be funny to drag bell beast to a boss fight and gaunlet

[marble oasis]

Nothing really said other than the Citadel bugs used to use them a long time ago

One theory is there’s so many bells in there because they were discarded when they were made en masse by the Weavers to seal Silk

[marble smelt]

How does lace astral project herself to hornet in the abyss. Is that just something she can suddenly do now

[modest kraken]

What if the projection is from the void

[marble oasis]

Uhhh the Needolin silk silhouettes on steroids or something

[slim tree]

ive just assumed that she was sending a message to hornet through the void and hornet just sees lace there in her head like she isnt really there

[low oracle]

Not really if the Bell Beast dies...

[low oracle]

I think the most logical answer is void. In the abyss there are void particles floating around, which could have accumulated to take the form of Lace for a short moment. Lace could have done this because of being infused with void so much, she actually gained some control over it.

[marble oasis]

How did they turn white

[low oracle]

Reasons? Idk.
Silk is also black the thicker it is so maybe there doesn't have to be an actual explanation.

[candid linden]

why does hornet wear a mask

[modest kraken]

Or maybe, the void gained control over Lace
The Lace projection encourages Hornet to "let oblivion swallow us" which doesn't seem to fit Lace's motives given that she saved Hornet

[low oracle]

Well then again, the void isn't sapient or even sentient. Lace also didn't "save" Hornet because of Hornet, she just wanted to oppose her mother.

[modest kraken]

The Lost Lace fight feels more like the void controlling Lace than Lace using the void
When Lace staggers she loses some of the void covering her

[modest kraken]

If void can fill a shell and create the Knight, why couldn't it fill Lace and influence her in a similar way?
Like a parasitic fungi

[low oracle]

The Lost Lace fight is the void controlling Lace, but that doesn't mean her projection is being controlled too. After all, Lace being controlled also gives her control. Just like infected husks utilizing the infection to become stronger.

[modest kraken]

Good point

[low oracle]

Lace is only voided on the outer layer of her form, besides biology not applying to her whatsoever.

[marble oasis]

Why do you have a face

[candid linden]

is that her face or a mask

isnt there like a mask maker

[low oracle]

Mask = face (sometimes)

[low oracle]

A mask can be a synonym for face and vice versa. There can also be organic/biological masks with faces underneath and so on.

Hornet has an organic face/mask.

[marble smelt]

Did any weavers get infected in hollownest

[marble oasis]

Most likely

[heavy gyro]

The little weavers

[onyx ruin]

…

[whole holly]

are Little Weavers actual weavers? i somewhat doubt it, they are grouped together with deephunters and deeplings are they Weaver Tribe or Spider Tribe?

[whole holly]

it seems nobody really knows

[onyx ruin]

I’d say they are tbh

Like smol weavers?

Idfk tbh

[finite wind]

Fun fact, hornet does not know how evolution works

[whole holly]

nobody seems to know, but i kinda doubt they are weaver children

[whole holly]

i don't know spanish

[onyx ruin]

Yup

[onyx ruin]

Read the English one ingame XD

I just remembered what the English one was

[whole holly]

read server rule 6

[onyx ruin]

Hmmhm, I know it

[finite wind]

?????

[foggy stratus]

The server is English only.

[onyx ruin]

Yeah

The pic wasn’t English so they going at ya

Gl

[finite wind]

Did that guy just imply I can't share a Spanish silksong screenshot

Like are we fr

[onyx ruin]

I think so lol

Tho I’m not taking sides here

[whole holly]

i am not, it's just remarks that are weird

[foggy stratus]

You posted the screenshot and expected people to be able to understand it. In a server that’s English only.

[whole holly]

"Read the English one ingame XD"

[finite wind]

No, I posted the screenshot expecting people to look up the version in their own language

Besides, I'm still not breaking any rule

[foggy stratus]

You brought it here, you could at the very least translate it to the server’s official language instead of just having people go look it up in their own language. Or, better yet, find an image of it in English.

[finite wind]

Yes I could have, but guess what? I did not want to nor did I need to!

[onyx ruin]

Why you quoting me here?

[finite wind]

Odd thing to focus on but ok

@onyx ruin But yeah, hornet does not know evolution confirmed

[onyx ruin]

100%

[finite wind]

I think STH similar was implied in another entry

But here it is blantaint

[whole holly]

because laughing at someone for not knowing Spanish in English-only server is weird

it was weird remark

[onyx ruin]

I don’t know Spanish myself

[whole holly]

that's my only problem

[onyx ruin]

I just looked it up ingame + remembered what the thing was

I didn’t say I knew Spanish

[foggy stratus]

“6. English Only

*The server language is English. Please take non-English conversations to DMs”-Server rule six.
I dunno man kinda seems like the server is English only tbh.

[whole holly]

still weird thing to laugh about

[little lion]

why does the hollow knight scream in the black egg if he has no voice to cry suffering?

[foggy stratus]

It’s the Radiance’s scream.

[little lion]

ohhhhhhhhhh

[onyx ruin]

Tryna lighten the mood okay TwT

[whole holly]

okay... sure

[finite wind]

Omg,😱 then you must hurry and contact the mods⏰ ! Because I've shared at least a hundred 💯 silksong screenshots in Spanish!!! And guess what🤔 ? I'm not stopping!!! 😱 😭

Ups! I did it again!!!

[finite wind]

To the other people, I love how they also mention here that these guys don't eat and drink

I find it very interesting

They really want us to know that

[whole holly]

should i send you tablet in ancient Babylonian? i expect you to translate so we can discuss it

[unique tangle]

<@&283547423706447872> just resolve this

[finite wind]

What does that have to do with breaking rules again?

[foggy stratus]

You do know that in the process of translating things from one language to another meaning can get changed right? That’s the main issue I have. And again just get a fucking English screen shot you fool.

[wet walrus]

Who is more formidable cartographer?
Cornifer or Shakra

[unique tangle]

This isn’t getting anywhere

[gentle aspen]

what