sk-lore

[marble oasis]

Who do you want to slime out for a crest

[dire lynx]

crust crest would be peak ngl

[sudden imp]

Feels like I could've gotten more than just a needlolin from widow or cross stictch from phantom... I should've gotten a whole ass crest

[plain ruin]

Crest of the Thespian when

[near jasper]

Widow was a crest at one point in development

[sudden imp]

I want to earth bend, gimme Khan's crest

[near jasper]

Also phantom's silk is rotting theres not much you can use it for

[marble oasis]

Yeah I also wish Hornet could get Weaver abilities

shame Widow was the only possible way to do that

[blazing sundial]

its only toward bugs with a strong enough crest i think

[foggy stratus]

Phantom was like old and decrepit and Widow was kinda insane. Plus since you get weaver skills from mummified Weavers getting what’s basically just a weaver skill from a living weaver does make sense.(Not sure why I called Needoline “basically a weaver skill” tbh)

[near jasper]

And a body preserved enoughto hold it

Widow had steel stuck in her spine

[sudden imp]

I also want to be able to suck people in like kirby and blow out spirit fire balls... gimme groals crest

[blazing sundial]

but i think eva also says that at some point, Hornet binding to too many crests could evidently leave her to lose her sense of self.

[near jasper]

Yeah

Thats the weaver queen ending

[dire lynx]

hornet says that binding eva may be dangerous to her own personality

[blazing sundial]

thats why she takes her on as an ancestral art

[foggy stratus]

Consequences be damned, gotta bind em all.

[dire lynx]

i want more uniquely obtained crests like witch, ones we dont bind the owner of to wield. lifeblood crest could do this well

[marble oasis]

could

[foggy stratus]

Joni’s Crest

(Not from Joni)

[near jasper]

If you get plasmified with the parasite in sea of sorrow you should get the permanent version of hornets period cramps in the intro

[sudden imp]

lifeblood almost certainly featured in dlc, so soon... soon.

[foggy stratus]

Speaking of which, what the hell are those?

[dire lynx]

what are what?

[near jasper]

Delayed brain damage

[foggy stratus]

Hornet’s random bouts of weakness at the beginning of Act One.

Annoying as hell tbh.

[marble oasis]

Not to mention the brain damage

And the brain damage

[marble oasis]

She had her strength sapped by the cage magic

[sudden imp]

why did they capture hornet in the first place, who was in charge of that operation, what were they hoping to do to her, who were "they"?

[dire lynx]

just from being frest out of the rune cage pretty much

[near jasper]

Gms was in charge

[foggy stratus]

“You have a very minor case of serious brain damage”

[marble oasis]

To bring to GMS, GMS, eat her, Citadel bugs

[near jasper]

She wanted to bind hornet to break out of the cocoon

[dire lynx]

gms wanted to bind hornet for her silken strength

[sudden imp]

why eat hornet, what does that accomplish?

[foggy stratus]

Doesn’t it also happen at the start of act three or am I tripping?

[marble oasis]

Replenish silk

[near jasper]

Give the weaver abilities she had

[sudden imp]

oh like a highlander there can be only one power play?

[near jasper]

Also the half wyrm stuff

[marble oasis]

She just got exploded man

And Void exposure

[foggy stratus]

Womp womp.

I got exposed to void and I turned out just fine

[near jasper]

Is there anywhere that states shes losing silk?

[marble oasis]

Lace takes a fuck ton to maintain

[dire lynx]

the citadel was using her cocoon for whiteward stuff, also lace yeah

[near jasper]

She has silkhearts to replenish her silk

[marble oasis]

Were they

Whiteward was mostly dregs

[near jasper]

Silkeaters was a slur for weavers

[blazing sundial]

weavers were ascended by her, and were technically given silk in a sense right. So by attempting to reabsorb/bind other weavers like hornet, she is gaining back some power to escape her "prison"

[marble oasis]

I think pharlids probably had silk

What GMS gave them was soul-silk abilities

[dire lynx]

i mean, shes on a giant loom and there are lines of silk being pulled off of it

[marble oasis]

But they still use their own soul to make it

[foggy stratus]

If GMS is made of silk, is her prison made of flesh, or is she made of prison? GMS screams, for she does not know.

[marble oasis]

I think those are for anchoring

We see a similar thing in the Abyss cocoon

Destroying the god who you fear waking up more than anything’s bed would be immensely stupid

[near jasper]

Normal silk outside soul probably exists and we just havent seen it

[plain ruin]

Some strands, maybe. But the ones going down, shaped like a loom, are certainly not for anchoring

They’re for harvest

[foggy stratus]

-# some of the silk in Exhaust Organ

[marble oasis]

We see soulless Silk in the Organ but that wasn’t soulless to begin with

[dire lynx]

this isnt anchoring shit

[marble oasis]

It looks like a loom but it’s not really being woven

I think those are just loose

[near jasper]

The soul in silk probably starts to dissipate with time

[marble oasis]

Like you’re right but I can’t square it with this

[near jasper]

Unless the silkeaters consume soul and make it into cocoons

[plain ruin]

Silk is soul

[foggy stratus]

The Citadel is ran by morons.

[marble oasis]

No

Silk is soul and silk intertwined

[near jasper]

I meant silk not made from soul

Normal silk

[plain ruin]

Those would just be threads

Not silk threads

[near jasper]

Of what

[plain ruin]

True silk threads are made from soul

[marble oasis]

Have soul in them

[plain ruin]

Something that isn’t silk

[marble oasis]

silk and Silk are different

[blazing sundial]

silk is a specialized form of soul from the original game

[plain ruin]

Silk is soul spun into thread form

You cannot have silk without soul

[marble oasis]

Yeah you can

[near jasper]

I do not think gms is so gilf a whole species evolved to eat her silk

[marble oasis]

We see it in the Organ

[plain ruin]

Where

[blazing sundial]

if you want a specific instance which explains this, the seamtress's conversation with hornet after she gains the drifters cloak explains this im pretty sure

[marble oasis]

Stringing up the bench

[plain ruin]

How does that indicate that the silk isn’t soul

[near jasper]

What about the silk that just doesnt give soul when we break it in silkeater rooms

[plain ruin]

That silk still originated from soul

[marble oasis]

You don’t get soul from hitting it like every other instance of silk stringing things up e.g. first shrine, kraft

[near jasper]

I dont think styx is sneaking into greymoor to steal dregs with a moorwing on the loose

[marble oasis]

Yeah but it’s not pure soul

If Soul spun into solid form loses its soul how can it be anything

[plain ruin]

That silk is just lying there, a bunch of dregs

Still spun from soul

[marble oasis]

No it’s covering the bench at first

[blazing sundial]

idk what the argument is here, one of the lore bits of thw game direfctly quotes states:

Truth, no doubt! In Pharloom, yours is a rare skill, prized beyond measure, to channel one's soul within a thread. Soul and Silk inseparably linked.
It is a skill almost lost from Pharloom. Those old Weavers shared it, but they're long dead now.

[plain ruin]

You can whack the floor of the Unravelled, it won’t give you silk

[plain ruin]

Yes, it’s just sitting there

[near jasper]

A

Silkeaters are the most difficult to understand species in the hollow knight universe including the extinct ones

[blazing sundial]

in what way? All i know is that theyu can supposedly track silk over a large distance

[sudden imp]

Vault keeper is very black in the face. Does that have any lore implications?

[near jasper]

No

[near jasper]

Well

[marble oasis]

He also calls himself It

Void?

[near jasper]

They somehow can eat soul

While fully unharmed

They can get attacked by the parasite via bluetooth connection

Their natural habitat shouldnt even exist in a normal situarion

They can seemingly keep the soul in silk intact by the rooms we find them in

[dire lynx]

when?

[near jasper]

I might be stupid

Still tho these bugs form full colonies in habitats that dont even exist naturally

[marble oasis]

Silkeaters fail if used while cursed?

[near jasper]

No they get strangled to death in your inventory

[marble oasis]

What ?

[near jasper]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Silkeater

[dire lynx]

theres a special animation when cursed
https://packaged-media.redd.it/sx24m6jl8cuf1/pb/m2-res_720p.mp4?m=DASHPlaylist.mpd&var=sgpssan&v=1&e=1773291600&s=c51afc76251c751ea979fb775349603a766d9aa5

its not anything that weird tho, more interesting of the parasite than the silkeater, probably doesnt have that significant of a meaning

[marble oasis]

Holy moly

[near jasper]

parasite shoves a tentacle from hornets mouth and strangles her food to death when she tries to eat

just like real pregnancy

[marble oasis]

Well she still gets the rosaries at least

[near jasper]

what are silkeaters grubs off

[craggy smelt]

grubs are usually beetle larvae

so, some kind of silk-eating beetle maybe

[carmine trout]

do mind hornet does not have a mouth
so um
it does so from her eyes...

[near jasper]

hornet eats silk eaters with her eyes

[marble oasis]

I think they just look like that isn’t the queen still a grub looking thing

[craggy smelt]

I don't think we ever see the queen, just her egg

though it'd be funny if the grubs mature into things that just look like bigger versions of the grubs

[carmine trout]

grubfather

[marble oasis]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/979698009803722755/1366445038820917328/despite_everything_its_still_true.gif

[craggy smelt]

different grubs, but yes

(and it is funny)

[marble oasis]

Although I think grubfather is actually not completely mature

Unless he’s a grubberfly that shed its wings or something

[craggy smelt]

grubberflies are just grubs with little wings

or there's that thing, actual phenomenon in nature, where a certain number of a species never metamorph into an 'adult' form but just grow into larger versions of their 'immature' state

actual phenomenon, can't remember the official term for it

[marble oasis]

Nymph

[craggy smelt]

Ametaboly, that's the term

[near jasper]

hear me out

[craggy smelt]

but 'nymph' is a term for the state ametabolic bugs exist in while young

[near jasper]

the vesels

[dire lynx]

she could have a mouth

we know mouths can appear and disappear from a mask so

[carmine trout]

they can?

[dire lynx]

https://tenor.com/view/hollow-knight-grimm-hollow-knight-grimm-scream-grimm-hollow-knight-gif-26041288

[ionic stump]

It’s a stylistic thing

[edgy nebula]

i mean we see her drink and she talks and breathes she definitely has a mouth

[last idol]

i'm guessing the bell beast fight was like that because ofc she was haunted because of being stuck in that amount of silk for who knows how long lol

[foggy stratus]

Or she breathes via her skin like real insect type reatures.

[near jasper]

Nah

We shot a spear at a random dudes face ofc theyre mad

[marble oasis]

She wasn’t haunted

[marble oasis]

Do you mean like manifest out of a closed mask

[near jasper]

She wouldnt need to be trapped if she was haunted

Gms would probably just throw her at bone bottom to destroy the town

[dire lynx]

like we see on grimm, its not there, then it just appears. and then disappears again(closes)

[near jasper]

I guess to be fair the troupe masks are slightly special but it still counts in my opinion

[dire lynx]

whether thats just a stylistic choice, or a feature of masks is not something i have an opinion on

[marble oasis]

It doesn’t disappear as in vanish we just can’t see it anymore

[dire lynx]

its no longer visable, it disappears, and why are you nitpicking my words so hard?

[marble oasis]

Because you’re making it sound like the mask like fuses over when it closes and that’s silly

[dire lynx]

no, im just saying that its visable and then its not

[marble oasis]

Yes

[foggy stratus]

Isn't Grimm a shapeshifter?

[marble oasis]

I agree

[dire lynx]

i guess from big form to bats

[near jasper]

True

[foggy stratus]

And pufferfish.

[near jasper]

No hes just fat

[dire lynx]

thats just the cape

[foggy stratus]

Dont say that about my spooky boi.

[marble oasis]

He’s round

He needs to go on a diet of less scarlet flame

[foggy stratus]

But he'll die if he does:(

[dire lynx]

and the bat form is just a bunch of grimmchildren

[marble oasis]

The Nightmare Heart can always make another vessel

[near jasper]

Why doesnt he just eat frozen fire? Is he stupid

[foggy stratus]

He's just a picky eater. And frozen flames give him heartburn.

[near jasper]

Do you think lace has to check for silkeaters in her croissant hair like lice

[foggy stratus]

Sure, yeah.

[marble oasis]

When I’m bored I dip my daughter in maggots and she scream loud as fuckkk

[near jasper]

Draw this with phantom and gms

Actually no every child of hers

[edgy nebula]

Sometimes when I'm bored I dip my two year old daughter in void and she scream loud as fuuuuuuuck 😂😂😂

[foggy stratus]

What would happen if you deep fried Lace?

[near jasper]

The patch notes for sea of sorrow should be:
" tweaks to plasmium feature
Kratt now affected by muckmaggots"

[foggy stratus]

That patch notes?

[near jasper]

Darn

[near jasper]

Would taste pretty alright probably

[marble oasis]

A bit stringy

[dire lynx]

maybe good? depending on if hunters speculation here is correct or not

"I have heard others talk about 'soul' but I do not understand what it actually is. I do know that freshly killed meat tastes best - is that because the 'soul' still clings to it?"

the texture would be horrid though

[foggy stratus]

The silk would soak up the oil when it gets deep fried probably. Maybe its texture would be like deep fried spaghetti? Still, yummers.

[dense sigil]

how fucking loud ||does GMS have to be to be heard from all the way down the Void|| 😭

[dire lynx]

sound could be travelling through the threads maybe?

like one of those cup string phones

or shes just very noise lol

[green nova]

shes just very noise. causing mf earthquakes

[jagged sun]

Or the earthquakes could be because of the noise travelling through the strings with enough force to make them vibrate like goddamn bombs

[sullen prism]

Hornet is in a coma and nothing is real!!!!

[halcyon zenith]

red memory core

[sullen vigil]

Is hornet black or white

[trail canopy]

Brown

[sullen vigil]

How rhat woek

[trail canopy]

Idk

[sullen vigil]

Also what happened to pilgirms in pilgrims rest

[trail canopy]

Left or died

[lapis flower]

Also where do pilgrims even come from in the first place?

[sullen prism]

when a mommy pilgrim and a daddy pilgrim love each other very much

[idle mesa]

son 😭

[sullen prism]

[ionic stump]

they probably just died

[ionic stump]

as we know from nameless town they can come from every entrance to pharloom

the surface, blasted steps, places we haven't seen in pharloom

[foggy stratus]

Yes.

[marble oasis]

Pilgrims come from within Pharloom

[frosty gate]

Nope, Nameless Town is an exception from the Pilgrimage and I've got a theory about what the Nameless Town is

[ionic stump]

well they're still technically entering pharloom via the surface

[frosty gate]

Yes, but they wouldn't be considered Pilgrims as the ones who come from below, plus, their situation is different, considering the Needolin Dialogue

[frosty gate]

Escorted by Weavers too

[candid linden]

guys i just did silk and soul, and I have one question, what exaclty happen with lace and gms, did lace try to kill gms or is gms trying to protect lace or what's going on exactly

I know she saved us

[frosty gate]

You should go and check your save file before someone answers you this question

[candid linden]

I saw and I got silksoar and had like a talk with her

but I didn't understand

[frosty gate]

Oh ok, well

[frosty gate]

Lace tried to kill GMS out of spite

In doing so, she wanted to kill herself

So the Void dragged them both down

The issue?

[candid linden]

oh

[frosty gate]

GMS decided she wanted to be a good mother for once

And its basically doing all she can to keep Lace from being fully consumed by the Void

GMS knows she's (GMS) dead, but she wants to save Lace

[candid linden]

I see

thank you

wait what happened to phantom

isnt she also made of silk

[frosty gate]

What about her?

[candid linden]

is she dead

also i think shes not 100% silk

actually i forgot

[frosty gate]

Very

[frosty gate]

No, she is 100% silk

[candid linden]

why did she die and not lace

[blissful harbor]

lace is being sustained by GMS
phantom was discarded and doesn’t get such privileges

so she faded overtime

[crisp gust]

Any lore reasons for why the crest chapels are just sealed after completion?

[edgy nebula]

probably just no reason to go back in there

[frosty gate]

I don't think there's any, it's just for gameplay convenience

[whole holly]

why are chapels called chapels and not den, repose and stuff like that?

[edgy nebula]

because theyre places of worship

[whole holly]

Crest Bugs are worshiped? so you are saying that Shaman and Witch were worshiped?

[edgy nebula]

i never said that the bugs inside them were worshipped, it's possible they were offerings to individual gods or something else

but the chapels themselves were most certainly places of worship

[plain ruin]

Chapel can be used as another word for a funeral home

[whole holly]

how do we know that?

Joni's Repose and Herrah's Den look so similar to chapels

[edgy nebula]

well, theyre called chapels, theyre filled with candles, corpses iirc, and very adorned architecture

[whole holly]

do you think Sea of Sorrows bug will be similar to Joni in that regard?

i don't know why Zango was revived but Joni isn't

[frosty gate]

Considering the leaks

Yeah

[edgy nebula]

leaks???

[whole holly]

leaks or teasers? what leaks do we have?

[frosty gate]

Difference between an alcoholic and a drug addict

[frosty gate]

Well, the maps we know exists

[whole holly]

oh yeah Lifeblood Spire thing right?

[frosty gate]

That were cut content but are clearly related to SoS

Yeah

[frosty gate]

Joni drank the thing most likely, that's what people did in Hallownest

Zango got injected with it most likely

[whole holly]

Chapel of the new crest would be great, honestly i don't think new crest should be too sea focused

[frosty gate]

I wonder what the crest will do

[whole holly]

Lifeblood should not work differently, though Joni's Fluids literally all lifeblood through Joni's Blessing

[edgy nebula]

lifebloodslop

[frosty gate]

!wiki Joni

[whole holly]

i want another Cursed Crest type situation

[oak meadow]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Blue_Child_Joni

Hollow Knight Wiki

Blue Child Joni

Blue Child Joni is a spirit in Hollow Knight. The Joni's Blessing Charm can be found on her corpse.

Gender

Female

Backer

Joni Kunelius

[frosty gate]

You are right

[frosty gate]

Then I have no idea

Perhaps its the method used?

[whole holly]

people refuse to accept that it is retcon

[frosty gate]

Wait a second

Wait wtf is Joni

She's blue

And it's not stated that she even drank it

[whole holly]

she was claimed as heretic

[frosty gate]

She gave a blessing

[whole holly]

maybe new chapel will be chapel of the heretic, or Alchemist to fit mad scientist vibes

if Moss Druid didn't exist, i would say Druid fits well

[edgy nebula]

her being based on the blue ground beetle might have a part in it

[frosty gate]

Alchemist would be the most likely

[frosty gate]

True, still weird lol

[frosty gate]

It is a retcon by definition

Istg we gotta pin the definition in this chat

[whole holly]

i can't wait for Sea of Sorrows i have no patience

[edgy nebula]

the second definition is what most people use

[frosty gate]

Retcons are also not always negative

The introduction of new information is a retcon, but it is not necessarily a contradiction

I ought make a list of retcons and in which category do they fall

[whole holly]

i truly want to see Lifeblood Higher Being, i really need to, TC needs to wrap this up, or something

[frosty gate]

BACK TO JONI THO!
It was never stated that Joni drank or used lifeblood, it's just said that she gave a Blessing, which is a completely different thing. We don't know how Joni gave the blessing or how she is even able to give blessings in the first place

And her death isn't even explained, nothing about her indicates how she died, not even if she died by Lifeblood

[frosty gate]

I'm still unsure if such a Higher Being exists in the first place

I kinda want there to be none

And if there is, I want it to be like VGFocus

[whole holly]

to be honest, Joni was deemed a heretic, and lifeblood a taboo, so it is kind of obvious, since her blessing is a charm and charms are typically last wishes of dying bug, it is likely her wish was to transfigure her vital fluids to Lifeblood, that's definition of addict

[whole holly]

Abyss Creature is likely one

[frosty gate]

We don't know if it means she could give the blessing while alive or its just the charm idk

I kinda wanna see whats up with that

[whole holly]

i think it is just a charm

i mean it quite literally is a charm

[frosty gate]

Never bet on Abyss Creature

I'm genuinely convinced this could be the case

[whole holly]

it's room looks like chapel/repose too, where we pick up Lifeblood Core, at least:

[whole holly]

i don't think so

[frosty gate]

Doesn't mean it can't be a huge one, infected by lifeblood

[whole holly]

ehh, i find it weird, idk

[frosty gate]

It is right in the Abyss where those things live

[whole holly]

so, room is basically in dream realm

[whole holly]

based on that it could indeed be a hallucination of knight, or memory or lifeblood induced dream, suggesting what we know already, no vessel is pure

[frosty gate]

It could be just a Dream

[whole holly]

i mean yeah, that's what i meant but in sense that it was possibly lifeblood induced

i think Silksong needs more memory interactions

[blissful harbor]

i think it’s fine where it is, maybe a few more in dlcs
HK was all about the dream realm and essence, i’m glad SS took a step away

[near jasper]

Wait tf

I just turned on my old xbox one why is hollow knight the lifeblood image

I bought voidheart edition

[blissful harbor]

an update came out a few weeks ago that changed the art

sea of sorrows hype

[near jasper]

Damn

Leth doing his job

😔

[blissful harbor]

it’s completely new art too, very cool

[frosty gate]

Here's hoping we get them

[candid linden]

do we know why hornet knew about the everbloom or does she just know

[craggy smelt]

presumably, White Lady showed it to her at some point, given that you return to that memory to acquire it

[zenith copper]

what the heck is this

[candid linden]

do we ever hear about hornets mom in silksong

[zenith copper]

besides the ||red memory no||

[edgy nebula]

herrah in red memory

[opaque sedge]

Anybody knows what this place is?

[craggy smelt]

unknown! But it has some connection to lifeblood, and we're likely getting some new lifeblood lore in Silksong DLC, so perhaps we'll learn more!

[craggy smelt]

looks like a big facility for gathering and preparing silk dregs for delivery to the Citadel

lore tablets in Greymoor talk about the process

Litany of the Worker
May we catch the dregs and never tire,
May we clean the dregs and never hunger,
May we spool the dregs and never falter.

On the eighth harvest, send:
Fifty measures, nine beats dregthread, spooled,
Fourteen measures dregthread, twined,
Oath of fealty, all workers.

On the twelfth harvest, send:
Forty measures dregthread, spooled,
Two beats fine thread, twined,
Oath of fealty, all workers.

[opaque sedge]

Ok thanks man

[craggy smelt]

these are pretty similar to the Deep Docks tablets

At the ninth bell toll, send:
Twenty measures, two beats Smokerock,
Seven beats Sweetsmelt,
Mark of fealty, all workers.
though in Deep Docks, a mark of fealty is called for rather than an oath of fealty... I wonder why

maybe Dockworkers prefer producing something physical rather than speaking...?

[frosty gate]

Abyss Creature

[candid linden]

is elegy of the deep that different from dreamnail

[sinful nimbus]

Not really

[near jasper]

Not really

[foggy stratus]

Function wise sorta. Elegy of the Deep only lets you enter memories while Dream Nail lets you enter dreams, look into minds and a whole host of other things. So yeah, but the big main use does remain basically the same. Details, am I right?

[unreal wraith]

Wassup

[onyx pawn]

Here comes a random idea that I just want to put somewhere:
I see immense similarity between Crust King Khann with his Coral Tower, and Lord Fool with his Colosseum.
. Both look similar
. Lord Fool got some piece of armour on his neck that looks very crustnut-like.
. Both are rulers of warrior somethings.
. Both sit in thrones.
. A lot of the enemies in the Colosseum (for example Fool and God Tamer) got blades similar to the ones wielded by Karakas.

You're welcome to criticise it (:

[unreal wraith]

Wassup again

[marble oasis]

White Lady with the Everbloom to a baby Hornet

https://tenor.com/view/blob-jelly-memes-stare-at-it-bob's-gif-8902687973428544154

[candid linden]

does anyone have a good lore vid

[terse warren]

Mossbag ig

[finite wind]

Fat Brett made some good lore videos

There's also a 4 hour video which rank bossed based on lore which goes on detail about all of them

[marble oasis]

No jokes in lore please

[terse warren]

Lmao

[near jasper]

Whats the lore on the statues we get after clanker dancers

Like why are we throwing pilgrims at gms' cocoon

[sinful nimbus]

Its the end destination for pilgrims as part of the religion which gives them incentive to keep playing music which keeps GMS sealed

[near jasper]

Why would they need a boss to defend it

[sinful nimbus]

Idk if that's their main purpose

Maybe they're there for entertainment and they just recognize you as an intruder

[near jasper]

What about the grand reeds

[near jasper]

Why would you need the pilgrims to reach that if the architects song is already in place

The statues sound like the thing the pilgrims have been worshipping was gms herself

[edgy nebula]

the cogwork stuff was made after to automate the song

but it failed because one of the biggest themes throughout the two games is that nothing lasts forever

[hardy rain]

except void apparently

void probably lasts forever

[near jasper]

"They who sustain our realm, its walls, its floors and its voice, even as others fall silent."

[hardy rain]

someone needs to maintain the machines

you gotta oil parts, replace cogs worn down

hell you probably need to supervise the underworks to prevent the lava from causing damadge to the citadel

[near jasper]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Cogworker

[hardy rain]

how do you think the cogworkers get new parts

the forge is operated by bugs

you need a supply line

[near jasper]

Why do you think the massive robots made with the ability to mine and sustain lava were stored there

[near jasper]

The architects

[foggy stratus]

It’s all just robots building more robots.

[hardy rain]

you need failsafes in place

[edgy nebula]

the robots build robots which build robots which build robots which build robots which build robots

[hardy rain]

the architects ingame are all dead except one

[near jasper]

Yeah thats why they all died they werent built with enough of them in mind

[hardy rain]

clearly they needed maintenance that wasnt given, because the citadel fell

[foggy stratus]

Fail safes are for smart people. The Citadel wasn’t smart or people.

[hardy rain]

i'm assuming the haunting prevented maintenance of architects, making them die off

also bugs were the primary source of silkflies

which are at the coreof every new machine

no bugs no machines

[foggy stratus]

I firmly stand by the idea that the Citadel was ran by a bunch of morons who didn’t understand Jack about shit.

[hardy rain]

Oh absolutely

[foggy stratus]

Hence why it fell.

The only competent ones were the Architects. Those were the homies.

[hardy rain]

Glory to our Pale King

[foggy stratus]

[hardy rain]

He never would have let that happen

Honestly even though pharloom is bigger, Hallownest was much more efficient. Just LOOK at those supply lines through crossways and storerooms

[foggy stratus]

And the Pilgrim’s Path for Hallownest was just so fucking short. And it, unlike Pharloom’s, was actually safe.

[hardy rain]

Imagine walking the pilgramage through pharloom and then looking over at hallownest's paved roads

[near jasper]

Theres a lot more housing in hallownest, this is a reference to the fact pharloom needs to build homeless shelters

[hardy rain]

Honestly look at the city of tears's buildings.

they're MASSIVE

[foggy stratus]

Yeah. You actually can see residential buildings in the capital.

[hardy rain]

i wouldn't be suprised if hallownest had a higher population

[near jasper]

Hallownest is a kingdom, pharloom is just its system

[hardy rain]

Even the poorer areas in hallownest look like a functionnal city.

there's no slums

unlike some certain spiders's kingdom

[foggy stratus]

You mean Hallownest, right?

Yeah.

[hardy rain]

yes sorry

brain bad

[foggy stratus]

Also, just look at the waste disposal systems. Hallownest made a proper sewage system that funnels it away from society. What dos Pharloom do? Go ask Bilewater.

[hardy rain]

Pharloom has awful infrastructure

they were so focused on GMS they forgot it was meant to be a city

[foggy stratus]

Hell, even the fucked up parts are better. I’d take Soul Sanctum over Whiteward any day of the week.

[hardy rain]

also TPK had so much confidence in that sewage system he put his palace directly under it

[hardy rain]

oh, also, hallownest has 2 education centres. Pharloom has NONE

[foggy stratus]

Yeah, it’s all just religious dogma and preaching.

[hardy rain]

they're not even as good at that as TPK

he didn't do any of what they did and yet he's still revered

[foggy stratus]

He literally does nothing and is still better than Pharloom.

[hardy rain]

well he did do a few statues

[foggy stratus]

One of them was so far removed from civilization as to be basically irrelevant.

[hardy rain]

who do you think win if they went to war at their primes

[foggy stratus]

Hallownest has a proper, trained army and five, maybe six if we wanna count PV, highly skilled warriors. Pharloom does have better machines, sure, but from my understanding their 'army' is mostly converted pilgrims.

Also, kingsmolds.

[hardy rain]

i dont beleive he'd even need them

also, have you SEEN the crystal mining robots

they have LASERS

[foggy stratus]

And if we wanna subscribe to he theory that PK taugh PV soul magic, Hallownest has a literal God king.

[foggy stratus]

Oh damn youre right.

[hardy rain]

pharloom robots just hit

lmao

anyway i have 15 messages to send left before i can join vcs

so how was your day?

[foggy stratus]

Fine. I've spent most of it reading.

[hardy rain]

what are you reading?

[foggy stratus]

Shadowcaster by Cinda Williams Chima.

I'm at a part of the book where two characters are engaging in actions.

[hardy rain]

what genre is it

[foggy stratus]

Fantsy.

[hardy rain]

and also do you recommend it?

[foggy stratus]

Yes, absolutly.

[hardy rain]

whats it about?

[foggy stratus]

It's the second book in a series taking place during a 25 year long grudge war between two nations. Arden, the bad guys, and Fellsmarch, the good ones.

[hardy rain]

what's the series called?

[foggy stratus]

I hate Arden with a passion. Like, a burning passion.

[foggy stratus]

The Shattered Realms.

[hardy rain]

th they do?

[foggy stratus]

Its a sequel sreies to the Seven Realms novels.

[foggy stratus]

Enslave and burn mages.

[hardy rain]

what are those about?

[foggy stratus]

Not sure yet, I haven't read.

[hardy rain]

also, based. magic's for pussies

we use swords here

[foggy stratus]

[foggy stratus]

My guy I'm the local wizard.

[hardy rain]

sur, your spells may be powerful

but when the cave went dark

the princess didn't grab YOUR arm now, did she?

[foggy stratus]

I cast Admin Control. Wanna know what it does?

[hardy rain]

admin control my BALLS

[foggy stratus]

You now need to do all biological functions manually. All of them.

The princess didn't grab my arm because I'm a conicted war criminal.

[hardy rain]

no, it's because you're a nerd

[foggy stratus]

Sounds like you're just jealous of my sick ass hat.

[foggy stratus]

Also I'm just saying that calling enslaving mages and burning them alive "based" is objectively fucked up beyond measure.

[marble oasis]

If they can’t even cast a simple flame protection charm then they lowkey deserve what they get

[near jasper]

Yk

Its weird pharloom's choice for a meat farm is directly below the entire sewage system

Muckroaches must taste like sewage

[marble oasis]

If they do it’s a taste some people enjoy

[dire lynx]

the muchroaches weren't for the citadel, or all pharloom, only the bugs who actually lived in greymoor/sinners road

[near jasper]

Yes

-# except pickled muckmaggot is apparently a delicacy but lets just assume mergwin has untreated schizophrenia

[dire lynx]

mergwin is just delusional

there is a reason lugoli was kicked out

[marble oasis]

Pickled Muckmaggot is Lugoli’s Graduation

[marble oasis]

it was the cannibalism 😭

[near jasper]

Theres a real chance lugoli wasnt kicked out for pickling sentient bugs and instead because he cooked muckroaches for people

[dire lynx]

it says "repeated culinary crimes" in the journal, if it was cannibalism they wouldve been kicked out right away

[marble oasis]

That doesn’t mean that at all

They could have cannibalised repeatedly before being found out

Making pickled muckmaggot is not a crime

[near jasper]

The citadel kept random people in a trophy wall in the memorium they arent past canibalism

[marble oasis]

When you hear some mf suggest “Ants and Pilgrims are people too” so you genuinely hit them with that Memoria stare

[dire lynx]

you could argue that, but its not really whats being implied in the form of the sentence

[near jasper]

And birds

[marble oasis]

Once again making bad food is not a crime

[near jasper]

Lugoli was kicked out for smugglimg poor people food into the citadel like muckroaches and dead babies

[marble oasis]

If it were that they would have just not eaten the food

[dire lynx]

its a culinary crime to serve something so repulsive to the elites of the citadel

[marble oasis]

The conductors were definitely eating Verdanian eggs 😭

Pale ones were for special occasions

[near jasper]

Why didnt people think to farm mites for meat

They grow like 8 times the size in adulthood

And dont need a pool of water

[dire lynx]

they probably have a slower life cycle

[marble oasis]

They’re furry and have teeth

Sharp ones

[marble oasis]

yeah maggots breed like… well, maggots

[near jasper]

Isnt there like 3 jobs made specifically to keep muckroaches from killing people whenever

[dire lynx]

yes

[marble oasis]

Not really

Roachcatchers corral, Roachkeepers herd and bind, Roachfeeders need pins to not get caught up in the feeding frenzy

[near jasper]

Lowkey silkeaters are probably a good food source too if you arent such a baby about eating gods soul woven into thread

[marble oasis]

Why didn’t the Weavers use a Seal of Binding on GMS

[near jasper]

Didnt weavers use runes instead of seals

[craggy smelt]

seal of binding is a type of rune

maybe they didn't know how to make one before Hallownest - they could have been making them with PK's guidance

he gave them the knowledge and they carried out his instructions, sort of thing

[marble oasis]

I don’t know

Pale King has no limit of Soul and no problem making runes on his own

[craggy smelt]

he did use silk in his workshop

maybe the weavers were copying his work

[marble oasis]

?

[craggy smelt]

there's silk spools in his workshop, he was using it for something

possibly spell runes, possibly in his constructs

[marble oasis]

That’s not his own silk though

What would he have needed it for

[craggy smelt]

sure, he got it from the Weavers
my point is that he relied on silk for something

[near jasper]

Would probably only get a result as good as white lady

[near jasper]

Which really didnt work all that well from her preestablished root system

Unless the weavers are really thorough cutting gms' hair

[marble oasis]

For what

I think it’s more likely he was just working alongside them in that workshop

[craggy smelt]

that would still entail him using silk for something in his projects, even if he had the Weavers doing it
and would support the idea that he was having the Weavers make seals for him

possibly he was using silk to bind his constructs into their shells, making the runes that are described in the journal for Wingmoulds

maybe using silk to make seals/runes results in stronger or longer lasting work than just pure Soul

[marble oasis]

Or the Weavers were making the seals to show him the designs

[craggy smelt]

maybe, he might have consulted with them on making runes/seals

personally I doubt he had anyone else in his workshop, it seems pretty private

but he could have conferred with any number of beings to develop his projects

maybe Weavers and their constructs (servitors, weaverlings) provided lore that went into his moulds

[marble oasis]

Monomon prolly

[near jasper]

Do you think laces head is shaped the same way as phantom and gms' behind the croissant

[marble oasis]

Yes

The question is whether that’s a hairstyle or a hair cover or just her head shape

[near jasper]

The croissant?

[marble oasis]

yeah

[marble oasis]

Thinking of it as a headdress of some kind makes me think like this

[near jasper]

Gms got tired of taking out silkeaters from laces normal hair and turned it into an impenetrable croissant

[marble oasis]

I think it’s just tightly wrapped into that style

[foggy stratus]

What is wrong with you people?

[marble oasis]

You people?

[foggy stratus]

Another person said “based” in response to the original message.

Like

The fuck???

[foggy stratus]

.

[near jasper]

Its weird none of the bugs we see go insane from like

Being forced to kill people they knew from the infection/haunting?

Except no eyes which is from a backer

[foggy stratus]

Infection reverts you back to your basic instincts iirc and I’m not sure about the haunting.

Either way they both fuck with your head.

[near jasper]

I meant the otherway

[foggy stratus]

Ooohhh

[near jasper]

The normal bugs killing the haunted/infected bugs

[foggy stratus]

Yeah chances are they view it as like a mercy killing.

Or they think the infected/haunted individual went insane.

[near jasper]

Still tho

[foggy stratus]

But being forced to kill a friend probably doesn’t drive you insane. You’ll be insanely grief stricken, yeah, but you’ll probably not totally lose it.

[shy sorrel]

Why does ballow not attack hornet?

[foggy stratus]

He isn’t haunted.

Probably.

[marble oasis]

Haunting makes you perform the job you had in life

[shy sorrel]

how do you not get haunted?

[marble oasis]

Infection reduces you to the id Haunting restricts you to the superego

[foggy stratus]

Avoid silk or just not have silk already in you.

[marble oasis]

You seem to be able to thug it out much easier than Infection

Everyone in Pharloom has Silk in them

[shy sorrel]

I see

[near jasper]

1. Same things you did for the infection
2. Dont be near silk (almost like working in a furnace could burn silk getting to you)

[shy sorrel]

Why aint hornet haunted?

[foggy stratus]

The Infection was more so a ‘resist the møťħ in your dreams’ type thing.

[marble oasis]

Her Silk is her own

[foggy stratus]

She built different. Prolly has something to do with being part weaver.

[marble oasis]

GMS can only manipulate her own silk

Which is pretty much all Silk in Pharloom

Wait

Are the Servitors haunted?

[near jasper]

Wasnt there a line about "the more you resist the harder it gets you" oe whatever

[near jasper]

No

[foggy stratus]

That’s only after you get infected.

The Mantises, Hunter and several others can resist the Infection just fine.

[near jasper]

You can also just not Dream like zote does if you really wanna

[foggy stratus]

Or not breathe like Zote does.

Wouldn’t recommend tho.

[near jasper]

Wait how tf did he get in godhome

[foggy stratus]

Wait was not breathing one of Zote’s precepts?

[near jasper]

Not that I remember

Are you thinking of beware of gravity maybe?

[foggy stratus]

I was misremembering his ‘don’t breathe water’ precept I thinks.

“Precept Forty-Four: ‘You Can Not Breathe Water’.”-Zote the shitty Mighty

Wow, real words of wisdom.

[near jasper]

I mean one of the precepts was actually pretty good learning for silksong

[foggy stratus]

Which is?

[near jasper]

Mothers will always betray you

[shy sorrel]

Whats up with trobbio and how isnt bro haunted if hes always in the citadel

[foggy stratus]

Yeah you’re right.

[foggy stratus]

He’s just that zesty guy.

He’s so off his meds he’s immune ig.

(I don’t fucking know, it’s Trobbio.)

[near jasper]

I think being overly focused on something protects you from the haunting/infection

[shy sorrel]

hmm alright

Also why does hornet let the baby broodmother live?

[foggy stratus]

Not sure how it would protect you from the Haunting seeing as it’s rather different from the Infection tho.

[near jasper]

Idk man it worked didnt it?

[foggy stratus]

More flies to murder later

[near jasper]

She didnt have the eyeball big enough to take anymore

[shy sorrel]

huh

[marble oasis]

She thought it was fine because it can’t breed but forgot about the passage of time

[shy sorrel]

lol

we do NOT need any more slab enemies hornet

[near jasper]

If theres an epilogue chapter sherma should go to the slab and absolve the penitents that survived

[foggy stratus]

“I absolve ye of thy sins. Now come with me, we need help with fixing the walls.”

[foggy stratus]

She’s waiting for it to get large enough to become pregnant so she can drop kick it in the stomach.

[shy sorrel]

Uh ok

[swift mural]

Boo

[edgy nebula]

it’s out of character

there’s no explanation

[shy sorrel]

Ok

[fallow spade]

Spread awareness of N-D. This is a serious threat. Send this to some people. Not a revolution just a warning

It’s the nuclear disarmament symbol

If it looks familiar it’s due to it being the original peace symbol

And I actually l ke politics. Unlike Ice protests this is actually worth it. That was a blind protest. This isn’t influencing a actual protest

Just spread awareness

Anyways good evening afternoon and night to all. And don’t worry good morning too

[marble oasis]

This must have something to do with Pale Ore

[jagged sun]

It's fine that you're spreading this message, just refrain from putting it in the lore channel.

[stray fog]

Ig she didn't want to kill a newborn

[sleek slate]

Why is the silk infection thing happening?

Like why does gms want to do that

[candid linden]

guys did the hollowknight save hornet

and why wasnt pharloom free until lost lace died like what does she have to do with it

also why the hell did it say to be continued

[sleek slate]

Idk about the rest but they're adding a dlc to Silksong called Sea of Sorrows, so thats prob what thats referring to.

[candid linden]

pale being naturally want to be worshipped, even the radiance and pale king from hollowknight

[candid linden]

man I really.hope it continues it

[sleek slate]

If the dlcs dont continue it its EVEN BETTER bc it would mean a 3rd Hollow Knight game

[candid linden]

no they said they wont

they wanna do a different game

[sleek slate]

Damn

[candid linden]

but theyll do dlcs first

[frank dove]

They said they wanted to explore different genres I believe as well

Like not metroidvania

Idk what that could mean

[foggy stratus]

Frankly I hope after a while we’ll get another Hollow Knight game, but I’m excited to see what else those mad lads will whip up.

[marble oasis]

Point and click adventure featuring THK as a gritty noir detective

[frank dove]

fps

[foggy stratus]

ULTRAKILL 2-S style game feature Bretta.

[marble oasis]

Romance visual novel

Featuring THK

[solar gale]

Who tf is he gonna romance

[foggy stratus]

Basically what I said just without the existential dread.

[foggy stratus]

Bretta.

[solar gale]

Damn bretta been 'round town

[marble oasis]

Shakra

[solar gale]

No

Shakra is taken by hornet

[foggy stratus]

She wouldn’t mind sharing, right?

[solar gale]

She absolutely would

[foggy stratus]

Eh screw it THK gets to romance Radiance.

[solar gale]

Ah yes forbidden love

[foggy stratus]

“…”
“ANCIENT ENEMY. I WILL NOT BE FORGOTTEN.”
Amazing dialogue between the two.

[marble oasis]

Power opposed…

[sick tinsel]

could the godseekers land of storms be close to the city of steel, judging by zi's appearence being close to the godseeker

[foggy stratus]

Maybe? I dunno. We’d need to see the City of Steel and the Land of Storms more in depth imo since just looking kinda similar isn’t much basis for determining proximity alone.

[dire lynx]

radiance isnt pale

[whole holly]

hornet's physiology is so unique, she is part wyrm part weaver, basically being with lot of soul that can weave it into silk

[dusk nacelle]

I know I’m amazing

[sick tinsel]

[dusk nacelle]

[foggy stratus]

🐴

[sick tinsel]

aside from hallownest and farloom, whats all civiliations we know exist in hk

[solar gale]

City of steel

Land of storms

[foggy stratus]

The Ancient Civilization, dead. The Lands Serene, unknown.
Land of Storms, dead.
City of Steel, probably alive.
Shakra’s Tribe, alive.
Probably a few more I’m forgetting.

We also know that other Wyrm based civilizations also existed due to Bardoon or someone else’s dialogue, probably Mister Mushroom tbh.

But Hallownest was certainly, definitely, undoubtedly, the last and only civilization

[stray fog]

Steel city mentioned ‼️ ‼️ ‼️

[foggy stratus]

[fresh badger]

Does shakra's tribe even count as a civilization? It sounded like they were kinda part of Pharloom

[bright python]

wait does the mantis village count or am i just dumb

[solar gale]

It does not

[solar gale]

Shit man honestly

Hallownest's economy so peak it's functioning even after the kingdom's ruin

while pharloom on the other hand

Hallownest was built to last eternally

Ofcourse an angry moth goddess appearing in everyone's head was not on anyone's bingo card

[sudden dragon]

They a wandering warrior tribe I think..

[tepid aurora]

Well the pk had it predicted

[terse warren]

He had foresight but I still wouldn't call it predicted

I feel like he'd have uh, told the moths to not abandon their god if he knew fully what would've happened

I love TC being super vague about the guy that can see the future

[foggy stratus]

Couldn’t have seen that far into the future.

[solar gale]

I doubt his foresight extended very far

Probably a couple months?

[terse warren]

Or maybe it is an endless length

And he concluded that (somehow) what happened was the best turn of events

Maybe there was literally no way to stop radiance from killing everyone

And this was the best outcome

[foggy stratus]

I doubt that. If he knew it was unavoidable he wouldn’t have done the Vessel project.

[sick tinsel]

lands serene ?

[jagged sun]

Where the Grey Mourner and the Everbloom come from

[whole holly]

i hope we get to see more information about Garmonds or Sharka's tribe

[finite wind]

or maybe his farsight wasn't accurate enough and it just showed him a world where radience dominated

[terse warren]

i just said that maybe from what he saw the vessel project was the best outcome

[foggy stratus]

From what he saw it was the only outcome. If he saw it’d eventually fail he’d have likely not done it. The whole ‘No cost too great’ thing doesn’t really mean anything if you know it’ll eventually fail. He wanted Hallownest to last eternal, that was his main goal. Him doing a plan that likely caused him ungodly levels of grief after it failed isn’t exactly behavior expected from someone who knew it’d fail. He saw it would work, didn’t see it would fail.

[terse warren]

If he did it anyways because he saw doing it was the best outcome even if it failed (at least some people do survive) it doesn't mean he can't still grieve

People sometimes literally have no good options, and still grieve

[marble oasis]

who knows maybe he saw the knight

[foggy stratus]

So he saw it would eventually fail, decided to still do it, and then because it failed and he did it despite knowing it would fail he still locked himself away in the dream realm and eventually died, when he knew what would happen if he did it?

[terse warren]

i think you're missing the point

im saying it is possible that he did everything he did because he knew doing that would lead to the best outcome

[foggy stratus]

If he saw TK he likely would have made it easier to get the Kingsoul charm or break the Dreamer’s seals.

[terse warren]

but maybe if he made it easier it'd have gone differently

[marble oasis]

Why would he do that

It worked out the way he did it

[terse warren]

hell for all we know, future is deterministic!

[foggy stratus]

So TK would have. An easier time getting to the desired ending.

[terse warren]

for all we know, PK can see the future and can do literally nothing to stop it

[marble oasis]

Or someone else breaks the seals and THK fucking dies

[terse warren]

exactly

[marble oasis]

The seals are just as hard to break as they need to be and no harder

[terse warren]

feels good when someone gets the point im trying to make

[foggy stratus]

So why would he do something that causes so much unnecessary suffering when he knows it will mean absolutely nothing?

[terse warren]

are you

dawg

[foggy stratus]

Because from what I understand, you’re saying PK could see THK fail and the infection starting back up.

[whole holly]

because his foresight might be flawed

[terse warren]

do you know what deterministic means

it means that it cannot be changed

[foggy stratus]

Apparently not.

[terse warren]

for all we know PK has literally no agency over his own actions

slave to fate shit

[near jasper]

What if the future wasnt certain from the start

[terse warren]

could be but it's not the point im trying to make

[marble oasis]

I really like the idea that wyrms are slaves to fate

[terse warren]

exactly

[foggy stratus]

There is nothing that ever indicates that beyond PK having vague, never specified foresight.

[marble oasis]

Because then Pale King was the ruler of his own kingdom but slave to fate while the Weavers were ruled by GMS but free to defy her

And Hornet, a mix of both, has strength to carve her own path

[terse warren]

PK has foresight, we do not know the extent of it, so we speculate about it

[foggy stratus]

But what you’re saying doesn’t make much sense when compared to the PK having foresight but it not extending far enough into the future to foresee THK failing, hence why he was so confident in the Vessel Project and his justification of “No cost too great”.

[terse warren]

it does but

wtv

this is like talking to a wall

[foggy stratus]

No it doesn’t?

[terse warren]

it would if you got the point im trying to make

[foggy stratus]

I think I do understand what you’re saying, but it doesn’t make sense.

[terse warren]

if everything PK did lead to the best possible outcome then No Cost Too Great makes perfect sense

and if PK has deterministic foresight then he literally wouldn't be able to help what he's doing and No Cost Too Great could be his way of relieving grief, which clearly didn't work since that's most likely what he died from

chances are the guy himself doesn't even believe in No Cost Too Great if you really look into it

[marble oasis]

Everyone knows when you repeat a mantra to yourself it’s because you believe it

[terse warren]

shrueeee

[foggy stratus]

From what I can understand in your argument you are saying that what the PK foresees is 100% never going change no matter what he or anyone else does, correct?

[terse warren]

That is option 2

Option 1 is that the events of the game that he saw were, in his mind, the best possible future that he could realistically achieve, and that is why he did all that and why no cost too great

[foggy stratus]

So are you saying he was able to foresee THK failing in this option of yours?

[terse warren]

yes

[foggy stratus]

So, he knew it would fail but did it anyway to prolong Hallownest. And then after the exact outcome he foresaw happening happened, he was so overwhelmed with grief by that he died, despite being aware that it would fail. Yes?

[terse warren]

are you so for real

[foggy stratus]

Im just trying to see if I understand what you’re saying.

[terse warren]

if he LITERALLY can't change the future that means he cannot change his actions

and yes, you can have grief for something you did

he grieved not because it failed but because it happened

[foggy stratus]

Really? Who would have ever guessed?

[terse warren]

even if you knew the outcome, im saying

[foggy stratus]

The grief of it all hit him after realizing it was all for nothing. If he grieved because it happened he’d have grieved after doing it, not after it failing.

[terse warren]

and you know he only started grieving after it failed because...?

also grief can take time to set in???

[foggy stratus]

Ok you know what we’re just two brick walls talking to each other. Ima go play Silksong.

Bye I guess.

[terse warren]

[plain ruin]

Anyways First Sinner = Atla

[terse warren]

ehhhh

meh

[frosty gate]

What's today fight?

At this point these arent topics lmao

[near jasper]

Pk foresight stuff

[frosty gate]

Holy shit wait a Mod that isn't High Noon

They're real

[frosty gate]

How it works or like what?

[near jasper]

If he foresaw thk failing i think?

I just got here too

[frosty gate]

Oh well, whichever works honestly, considering what we saw in the game whether he knew or didn't works for the same purpose

I personally like to think he didn't forsee its fall

Because it adds more to the thought of PK hiding himself in the mind of a Kingsmould out of shame

There's 3 ways his foresight could work (IMO)

1. He couldn't see THK falling until it was too late, and when he failed he retreated to his Palace.

2. He saw it happening, but thought that maybe if he did things differently things could change

3. He saw it happening, knew he couldn't do anything and decided this was the best course of action, after he played his part he decided to drown in shame knowing he is useless

Pale King writing a new fucking bible my God

[edgy nebula]

i feel like the second of them has some merit

part of pale kings story is definitely him trying to be too human in a way

what with the transformation to a meagre shell and all

[edgy nebula]

i see hubris and grief as more human things which is definitely why i like to think this

[wet walrus]

Question: Can the shade lord be considered a higher being?
Now shade lord shares a lot in common with other hbs especially considering the void chose to be subject to his rule. He is revered for his strength and gets power though unity he grants.
However the void had not so great relations with other hbs.
The voids ancient enemy was the radiance and her light is brighter than anything in hallownest. Such light allowed her to repel the void and she does the same during the fight (notice the orbits and light around her especially during staggers). After she was gone the pale king tries to replace the old light with the lighhouse that used power of souls to do the job.
The light and void can are polar opposites that counter each other though it is though difference in power (non physical).
So would shade lord still be considered a hb or just lord of the shades?

[edgy nebula]

shade lord is tk and tk with voidheart is a hb

so yeah

[unborn pecan]

Void being

or above higher beings
I remember an dialogue by the caretaker of songclave saying something in the lines of
"Only void can actually defeat (grandmother silk)" and I forgot rest

[near jasper]

Nah

Hornet didnt know the trap was void until it triggered

[frosty gate]

Mind you, the trap wasn't really Void, it was just soul

A soul portal to the Void, yes

But Soul nonetheless

[whole holly]

i mean soul snare was indeed soul but it was void that was able do defeat her

i have to be honest with you guys, i am not seeing enough speculation about Sea of Sorrows, Lifeblood and so on, we did exhaust Ancient Civilization with information we have, but Lifeblood being similar to infection is new information i didn't expect to be ignored or easily accepted

[twin dragon]

We've already had the haunting the fandom is desensetized to infectionslop now

They're not quite the same, sure, but to the average fan it doesn't matter

[whole holly]

i mean sure but i liked discussing differences and nuances of it

[twin dragon]

Yeah but the avg fan either doesn't know how to read or rlly loves to shit on this aspect of the game

[whole holly]

yeah but sk-lore channel isn't really average fandom

[twin dragon]

True somewhat ye

[whole holly]

my point is we haven't exhausted nuances between some of major forces of hollow knight universe

[twin dragon]

We have Posession that makes things go wild, we have memory union and we have parasitism

[twin dragon]

We don't know much about them

[whole holly]

sure but it is interesting to speculate about

[twin dragon]

For all we know the lifeslop creature that's in the abyss might be a lifeslop creature that kinda exists in the dream realm

Or maybe TC will retcon its existence because frankly it does nothing

[whole holly]

how Plasmified bugs don't have needolin dialogue

[twin dragon]

Probably either an oversight or they no longer have any mind

since most haunted bugs are alive n well

[whole holly]

to be honest with you i originally intended to focus on more nautical aspects of Sea of Sorrows DLC

[twin dragon]

Water in hk is a rlly neat concept

I've wanted this for a while

it better deliever

[whole holly]

not oversight, their mind seems to be changed but Zylotol when fully plasmified does have needolin dialogue

[twin dragon]

I mean

he can still talk

he's up there but not fully

[whole holly]

fully plasmified as in on ground post-act 3

[twin dragon]

Yeah, almost

but not quite entirely i'd say

Hornet would be met with aggression probably

if he completely went balls

[whole holly]

yeah but he seems to be immobile? in similar way that Sea of Sorrows Corpse and Joni are

[twin dragon]

Maybe he's just..

not moving

[frosty gate]

INFECTIONSLOP LMAO

Retconslop

[edgy nebula]

nostalgiaslop

[twin dragon]

Retcons aren't nearly as bad as people make them out to be

[whole holly]

with that logic void is also infectionslop with how it affects bugs also Void threads in Act 3

[frosty gate]

I know, I was just joking lol

[twin dragon]

ehh

it's the haunting that does this

[whole holly]

yes they are, Herrah is a weaver, like what?

[twin dragon]

i think

[frosty gate]

That's not exactly how it works

[whole holly]

yeah true

[twin dragon]

Oh wow... herrah not being a weaver... didn't matter at all...

[frosty gate]

Pharloom slop, glory to the great Hallownestgem

[whole holly]

i mean void still behaves as corrosive affliction to regular bug

[whole holly]

why does she looks so different so otherwise uniform species

[twin dragon]

Retcon, but it's not something that damages the story

[whole holly]

okay story is damaged with Lifeblood becoming infection

[twin dragon]

I mean

how

Joni maybe yeah but like

We know lifeblood is taboo for a reason

[whole holly]

most of time people assumed because it was from different god(abyss creature) and that's why PK made it taboo

[twin dragon]

We don't know if this is actually true hope sos answers this

And Pk allowed yk, mosskin to exist

in some capacity

[whole holly]

i mean Joni has deemed heretic

[twin dragon]

yeah they went against the god king of hallownest

that's what heresy is

[whole holly]

seemingly with lifeblood usage?

[twin dragon]

If the god king says it no good

and you can't

but you still do it

that's heresy

[whole holly]

that's what i meant to imply, yes

[whole holly]

PK making it taboo was what made Joni heretic

but calling it heresy has religious implications

like Lifeblood was religiously repressed, which makes sense, but it also implies religion around lifeblood, which implies central religious figure

[twin dragon]

???

The church in the middle ages forbid the opening of human corpses

this was considered heretical

therefore human corpses are tied to religion

???????

[twin dragon]

Something forbidden by religion doesn't have to be related to religion

[whole holly]

i said imply not confirm but Abyss Creature's presence in Godhome also adds to it, with it having special designated rooms like real Higher Beings do

[twin dragon]

Really anything can be in godhome, it seems, And while it has its own room it's still not enough

godseeker doesn't rlly say anything about it

[whole holly]

yeah, but Abyss Creatures has it's own room plus signature essence color, other things with signature essence colors are either Higher Beings, Godseekers themselves and Grey Prince Zote because he is dream conjured being

[twin dragon]

I mean, sure

I know that it will end up being a hb im not arguing against that

it's rlly just not a retcon

[whole holly]

by definition it is, though

[frosty gate]

Wait, what is a retcon?

[twin dragon]

There's no confirmed info that directly contradicts the fact that lifeblood is governed by a higher being

[whole holly]

lifeblood being infection

[whole holly]

that's not what retcon means

[twin dragon]

It literally does what

New info that contradicts established info

For all we know Pk could've tabooed lifeblood because of what could happen

It could spread the influence of its higher being

[whole holly]

i provided you definition, your definition doesn't match other ones

[whole holly]

conveniently relying on small part of second definition doesn't make you right, even with second definition Lifeblood being healing substance in first game and infectious drug in second game is indeed a retcon

[wet walrus]

I am unsure but kind of agree

The Hunter claims that lifeblood seeds can be killed for their healthy lifeblood

But I doubt he is credible guy considering he eats everything including infected bugs

[frosty gate]

Sorry, Nika is half right, I keep this close just in case

"To change or clarify how the prior work should be interpreted"

Not every retcon has to be a direct contradiction

It has to be noted that the definition says "Rectontextualizes or breaks continuity"

In this case, it's recontextualizing, but I wouldn't say it's breaking continuity

[whole holly]

infection spreads by mind

[frosty gate]

2.5 likes and I make a list of every Retconsong piece and categorize it in a Retcon category

[frosty gate]

By specific definition of point 1 and/or 4, Lifeblood Infection is a retcon. We didn't know much of Lifeblood and extra information was added

[terse warren]

Retcon discussion? You shouldn't have!

[frosty gate]

RC-lore channel

[whole holly]

do you mean that in good way or bad way

[terse warren]

What are we discussing

[terse warren]

In the best way

What's the retcon

[frosty gate]

Lifeblood infection

[terse warren]

Oh yeah

[whole holly]

prime example in fact

[terse warren]

The worst retcon

Me when I'm just infection number 4

Me when I'm boring as fuck

[frosty gate]

Herrah Weaver is right there

[terse warren]

Me when I'm literally so overdone

[whole holly]

i appreciate person having refined taste in retcons

[terse warren]

That's a good retcon tbh

[frosty gate]

I mean it works but it is literally unexplainable in satisfactory way

[terse warren]

The only 2 retcons I enjoy are Herrah being a Weaver and Shamans dabbling in Void

[whole holly]

yeah, tbh, in hindsight true but her original design doesn't match that

[terse warren]

Are they retcons? Yes and I will defend that statement until I die, but I still like what they can do for the story now

[whole holly]

shamans are curious in void but not doubling

[terse warren]

Oh no yeah, I'm glad they changed her design

[terse warren]

They are very much dabbling, they knew how to make the portal

[frosty gate]

Which was the third? Aren't we in the third?

[terse warren]

Infection, Haunting, Void Haunting

[frosty gate]

I meaaaaaaan

[whole holly]

i think they made a portal and can just set portal to anywhere, that includes void

[terse warren]

The void behaves different enough from the haunting to be its own infection

[terse warren]

Ehhhh maybe yeah but ehhhhh

I still think they at least do some stuff

[frosty gate]

I know its not allowed and you are specifically a mod but

[terse warren]

But yeah we don't see em do directly anything specifically

[terse warren]

Shit this one's good I'll leave it

A modicum of memes should be allowed in the lore channels, just a bit and only if they are relevant to the discussion

Joker's the only other guy that comes here anyways

[frosty gate]

That's literally Haunting and Void Haunting, I don't count it like a third one

[terse warren]

I'd say it's different enough due to the fact that Void gives everything new attack etc

[frosty gate]

What happened to Metal anyway? It was usually Metal and Joker

[terse warren]

Great damn question

Powdered just left one day

We still don't know why