sk-lore

[sturdy knot]

where the first number would be their count and the second number would be the hundrends place -1

[plain ruin]

First sinner being the first of the first makes me think that “the first” refers to the first members of the citadel, or perhaps the highest ranking members, or simply the first existing bugs if the Weavers were trying to maintain that as a truth in the religion they created

Widow would be of “the first” if this were the case, and it’s not unreasonable to say that she could have been the twelfth Weaver that GMS evolved

[sturdy knot]

i think they just number them in a chronologiacl order...

[plain ruin]

The sinners, you mean?

[sturdy knot]

seing as some are in their for stuff like infirmity, sickness

[plain ruin]

Why would they have “Fourth of the Fourth” and “Eighth of the Twelfth” then?

[sturdy knot]

sinner 404 and sinner 12 08

the slab would have had alot of sinner in its time

[plain ruin]

Why not just say “penitent, twentieth, punishment through no YouTube while eating dinner” or something

[sturdy knot]

idk ask

[plain ruin]

What would First Sinner be?

101?

[sturdy knot]

i messed those ones up,

304 and 1108

they may work like centuries

[plain ruin]

Seems like a major stretch, is all

[sturdy knot]

like 21st century is 2001 to 2100

[limpid summit]

I think keeping the sin unnamed stops it from being perpetuated

If it was like “forbidden worship”

Then people would be like well who was she worshipping

[sturdy knot]

i just find it weird that casting, unnamed sin, and not granting aboslution are just odd by themselves in the slab

[limpid summit]

And then find out about GMS and the citadel eventually

[plain ruin]

That’s a good point as well

[plain ruin]

It is weird, but so is Widow

Only Weaver (that we know of) to stay loyal to GMS

[limpid summit]

You’re on the right track

[plain ruin]

Makes sense that the other Weavers would avoid detailing who she was worshipping and all that

[limpid summit]

It’s probably the Weavers

They were called the first children

At least once

[sturdy knot]

i don't think that widow would be in the slab, seing as there is only one proper rune cage

[plain ruin]

She probably wasn’t. My guess is they cast those pins into her spine, stripped her of her mask, and cast her into exile

There’s that broken harp room in the Cradle where we see some Needolin lore featuring Widow, she might’ve ran off to that room to hide and worship

[sturdy knot]

why not just kill her if widow wanted gms to wake? seems like an easy choise to me if you don't want gms to wake

[plain ruin]

Kill her and you risk making a martyr

[sturdy knot]

to who's relegion?

[plain ruin]

If Widow is killed for worshipping GMS, it could lead to another Weaver viewing Widow as a martyr

[sturdy knot]

so what im getting is your saying weavers might start worshiping GMS if widow was killed by weavers???

[plain ruin]

I imagine that’s what the Weavers in charge of punishing Widow were thinking

[sturdy knot]

send widow to absolom, without the bell, silk or a mask, she would probably be stuck there forever, atleast until the void got her

[plain ruin]

Doesn’t sound like a good option. The Weavers were studying the void, placing Widow down there would interfere with that. And it’s not like they fully understood the void or what it was capable of. Leaving Widow down there with all that research could have meant bad news for the Citadel

Could she have weaponized it? Could it have weaponized her? Was there more research that had to be done?

[sturdy knot]

but leaving widow loose could be increadbly dangrous as widow would know about GMS

there isn't enough information about widow to say anything absolute as all there is (to me) is the boss itself

[plain ruin]

That’s why they rendered her unable to use her own silk and removed her mask. She no longer looked like the Weavers, so the pilgrims wouldn’t view her as divine and begin worshipping or aiding her.

But yeah, this is all just theory. Nothing is concrete, and it probably won’t ever be concrete knowing how TC approaches lore

[sturdy knot]

One more thing, IF the lore tablet in the slab (the casted one) is referring to widow, why do they state abdolution not granted, why didn’t they just state absolution denied (like on first sinners cage)

[plain ruin]

Widow may have had a path to absolution at one time, whereas as there was no way in hell that the First Sinner could be forgiven for shattering the entirety of their religion

Also, I just realized something huge.

If this slab tablet refers to Widow, she would be the Twelfth of the First. The Twelfth Weaver would be the one who had betrayed them by trying to awaken GMS.

Judas Iscariot was the Twelfth Disciple of Jesus.

Could be a coincidence, or it could be a clever little easter egg from TC

[dire lynx]

widow calls herself "last of the first"

[plain ruin]

She's the last Weaver in Pharloom

Every other Weaver is either dead or somewhere else

[dire lynx]

i know, just giving some more context to that term

[dire lynx]

all the other weavers are dead by the time of this memory, based on the previously mentioned dialogue

Widow is probably my favourite character from silksong so i just wanted to share some of the stuff about her

[marble oasis]

What is this?

[dire lynx]

in the cradle

[marble oasis]

Yes but can I have the dialogue please

[dire lynx]

Our mother... true...
Our light divine...
Wake... Wake... Wake...
Glory to you...
Devotion to you...
Spin... Bind... Punish...
Of the first... the last...
We hear you!

[dire lynx]

idk if u didnt see or not, so just pinging to be sure

[plain ruin]

That's true, she probably didn't show up here until after the Weavers all began leaving

[fierce narwhal]

my headcanon is that this is her own weavenest equivalent like her own tiny lil spot

[stray fog]

Theory-

First sinner / atla is probably the apostate that the apostate key is about

What if all these key names refer to specific Weavers?

What if widow is the heretic? The citadel Weavers would probably imprison her for being a heretic

[fierce narwhal]

i mean maybe? i always thought it was referring to the flies and their whole race. but its possible that widow was once in the slab and escaped while the weavers ran away from pharloom

[stray fog]

She could have also been freed by gms because of the haunting

[fierce narwhal]

and her mask cloth thingie does look similar to the down of the fayforn kinda which is right next to the slab aswell

[stray fog]

Fayforn was either neutral or against gms
She wouldn't assist widow after widow joined gms's side

[dire lynx]

her rag also looks like a flea, though i honestly dont think its actually anything special

[fierce narwhal]

true maybe it was like a shabby attempt from taking whatever she found

[dire lynx]

i think she either just wanted to hide her face, or needed the rag to protect it

[fierce narwhal]

something something needing an identity

[stray fog]

Masks are essential so yeah

[idle forge]

why do bugs do a "wah" when hornet uses her taunt?

[fierce narwhal]

startled probably

[idle forge]

or maybe threatened by her presence

[fierce narwhal]

if theres a hittable object or if u do a charged attack they do the same aswell

[idle forge]

didnt notice that

also did hornet copy laces attack?

[stray fog]

Which one?

The parry?

[idle forge]

yeah the parrys 2nd part

the barrage

from the pinstress

[stray fog]

Both lace and phantom do that iirc

[idle forge]

yeah but why do they ocpy eachother

[stray fog]

Lace and phantom are sisters so maybe they learned that together

[idle forge]

yeah

but hornet?

shes not a sister

but learned it from pinstress

[fierce narwhal]

probably taken by the bladework (or should i say pinwork) of the pinstresses and eventually incorporated into the traditional bladework of the citadel

[idle forge]

which means lace and phantom couldve learned it from pinstress aswell

[stray fog]

There is a very interesting connection to vespa with this
Let me find the original video

[idle forge]

alr

[fierce narwhal]

second sentinel does this aswell, both the parry and the charged attack

[stray fog]

https://youtu.be/hDKpzFHeLcE

[dire lynx]

pinstress says that her order once taught the citadel before being replaced and exterminated once they knew everything

[stray fog]

Can't have shit in the citadel

[fierce narwhal]

ooo very interesting

vespa was a pinstress

/joking

[dire lynx]

Our grand Citadel learnt well from the training of Pinstresses past. Then it went and turned those teachings upon us!
Despite our superior skills, our numbers have always been few, and their strength overwhelmed.
Of my once revered order, only two of us remain, wormed away in Pharloom's forgotten corners, and my pin-sibling, she's lost herself to more peaceable pursuits.

[wet walrus]

So who was a bigger bitch? The Radiance or Grand Mother Silk

[stray fog]

Gms

[dire lynx]

radiance

[wet walrus]

Like Rad torturing and murdering moss prophet and his followers was totally unnecessary

Considering she is the one who pulled them away from Unn

[stray fog]

I can't decide actually

Both are pretty evil

[fierce narwhal]

i wouldn't really say torture? its just the effect of too much infection in one body, the beliefs it spew was intentional but i dont think radi had it out for that one particular druid

[dire lynx]

the infection itself is torture

[fierce narwhal]

why'd i say druid PROPHET*

[fierce narwhal]

true

the thing is we dont really know too much about how radi was worshipped back in the day by the moth tribe so we dont know if she was as controlling or controlling at all like gms

[wet walrus]

Real question
Is most of the silksong plot a copy paste of hollow knight?

[fierce narwhal]

not really i dont agree, they share similar story beats but overall they're different

[wet walrus]

It is only my theory but Moth Tribe are a pacific tribe who tend the graves of bugs who passed away honouring their memories. And if they stopped honouring Rad's memory and ignoring the idols made in her honour as soon as they find the new light...

[plain gazelle]

most of the plot points silksong has in common with hollow knight are explicit parallels (half the time hornet calls them out herself) used to set player expectations and highlight the contrast when the point is taken in a different direction

[kindred ingot]

I have some questions about the Farsight

like, it lets Hornet "know" which enemies she still hadn't fought
and it can detect almost any enemy
it can detect the Abyss enemies, the Surface enemies, the Last Claws, the Coral Tower enemies, most Verdania enemies...
it can even detect the Wingsmoulds, which implies it is advanced enough to detect an extinct enemy from Hallownest inside of Hornet's mind before she's even able to enter her own mind

but it can't detect Shakra

who is RIGHT THERE

and it can also detect Summoned Saviour (which literally doesn't exist until you talk to Sula)

it also can't see Palestag, which would make sense cuz she's not really real and is actually a creation of Green Prince's failed memory

but it can detect Wingmoulds

which are basically the same thing

it also considers Trobbio and Tormented Trobbio as two separate entities

and it can detect Watcher at the Edge, who is basically dead before you use the Needolin

and it can detect Wraiths, which are the same situation as Palestag

[edgy nebula]

nuu describes them as pretty actively watching and waiting

[kindred ingot]

yeah, fair
but what about everything else?

[kindred ingot]

also, it can't detect Flintbeetles

[fierce narwhal]

this time i fear its just for the purpose of gameplay. i do think the farsight might be a lesser version of the silken sight that gms uses to detect weaver spawns from other kingdoms, but in this case it shows enemies and objects of interest

also flintbeetles and shakra are quest exclusive, then again tormented trobbio is also quest exclusive but since hes required for act 2 maybe that's why hes indexed in the first place

[near jasper]

I mean

Its a very old device

It should have been made with the memory enemies not being extinct

The diving bell hasnt been used in so long its landing location doesnt even have any signs of being used anymore

[eternal basin]

If the knight is hollow and have no mind or will, then why did it save Hornet and Lace in the "Sister of the void" ending?

[near jasper]

It isnt hollow by the time it gets void heart

[eternal basin]

wait

what

[near jasper]

Unifies the void under the bearer's will.

[eternal basin]

what an info ngl

thanks

😭

[near jasper]

Also the attuned nosk in godhome could tell the knight cared about hornet enough they mimiced it

"[...]beasts who wear faces stolen from your memories and pluck at the strings in your heart."

Wait

[foggy stratus]

It never was.

[near jasper]

The seeker soul is called collector soul in portuguese

[near jasper]

Debatable

[near jasper]

Dear god that took so long to send

[foggy stratus]

It just wasn’t. It does things that display will throughout the entire game.

It isn’t pure(or hollow whatever)

[terse warren]

Irrelevant

[near jasper]

Weird how little the dead shaman is mentioned on the wiki

Like once in the whole snail shaman page

In the gallery section

[marble oasis]

Not THE collector obviously

[near jasper]

Whats the dead shaman called in the files

[tawdry flare]

All of the vessels have minds and will

[dense sigil]

Abyss Towers from both games = Dark Souls Archtrees

[frank dove]

One in soul sanctum?

[near jasper]

The bilewater one

[terse warren]

keep it in english

[winter beacon]

what

[foggy stratus]

[winter beacon]

what

what are you saying gng🥀

[spark valve]

<@&283547423706447872>

[kindred ingot]

the Knight is not Hollow, Pale King's plan was never going to work

none of the vessels are Hollow

[grizzled stone]

Guys I'm buying silksong soon, should I know the lore or should I find out myself?

[midnight reef]

find it out yourself

[grizzled stone]

Ok

[midnight reef]

Then come back here, and then you can properly debate it

[grizzled stone]

Okey dokey, I completed HK 112%, I hope that silksong isn't THAT hard like they say.

[stray fog]

https://youtu.be/o5BDWeyiRsg

[stray fog]

pharloom timeline theorization

@frosty gate

I didn't even notice that both abysses have snail fossils

Were snails a big constituent of the ancient civilization?

[grizzled zinc]

Quick question: are Pinstress and Seamstress true sisters, or do they call themselves that because they're part of the same order?

[sinful nimbus]

Aye. Met my sister, you did, in order at least. Glad to hear she's still among the living.

So the latter

[grizzled zinc]

Ah thank you

I really should play the game again at some point lul

[frosty gate]

That video is half a Deadlock Match

And I wanna play Deadlock

(I'll watch it later)

[edgy nebula]

id argue there are many better things to be disappointed about

[limpid summit]

Wdym

That obviously refers to the order in which they can be met

Because you can’t meet her without drifters cloak

Duh

[stray fog]

https://youtu.be/o5BDWeyiRsg
There's a cool new theory in this video
They theorize that a volcanic event is what caused the ancient civilization's downfall (atleast in pharloom)

[tawdry flare]

As the only Huntress fan alive I am content with her quest because it was an actually interesting quest and Not Pick Up Silver Bells

[near jasper]

I think my only issue is the dialogue she has which is pretty good for the games context gets nuked during act 3

[kindred ingot]

I like her quest cuz it's one of those quests that don't require focusing on the quest

you can do it as well as the main quest

[sinful nimbus]

Is ts what's considered interesting by Silksong quest standards 🥀

Great Taste of Pharloom clears

[near jasper]

Passing of the age is the top 1 wish by far

[covert night]

kinda felt boring like most fetch quests

[near jasper]

Fight me

[edgy nebula]

The old hearts:

[near jasper]

Normal wish

Not the main story wishes

[edgy nebula]

Well then it goes to GTOP

cause it has crustnut

[covert night]

i guess gtop gives us culinary lore which is cool

[edgy nebula]

also a great gauntlet in creiges basement

[near jasper]

Finding out the location for each mm encounter and the surface climb was my favorite part of every wish by far

Also if im honest gtop is also one of those wishes you just have on the background ngl

Most the time you'll just stumble into an ingredient while exploring

[rustic junco]

I think the karak enemy gauntlets are unfair cause they weren't long and interesting enough

but then again, this is the lore channel so

as for lore

I have a question

why does the bile water not drop further down than sinners road

[finite wind]

it does, it's the rain in greymour

[near jasper]

Why did the memorium need to arm itself with like 8 times the deadly amount of electricity to kill a bug in each Guards pockets

[foggy stratus]

Just incase something attempts to breach its designated box. You never know when that innocent little moss grub thing might try to shive you.

[craggy smelt]

some of the development maps for Silksong mentioned a 'Void Cult' - the cult concept seems to have been overtaken by the Burning Bugs
but I wonder, if the narrative continues past Act 3, if a different kind of Void Cult might emerge?
bugs who are all messed up because of the black threading and now want to worship the Void
maybe even survivors who miss it
might even tie in with the Steel Assassins, if their masters send agents after those who interact with the Void, as implied by Zi re. Sula

[sinful nimbus]

Depressed bugs who want to go back to the numb emotionless feeling a la "Void, cleanse us"

[craggy smelt]

something like that, yeah

Void Nerds

[foggy stratus]

Why would anyone wanna join the Void? It’s not fun. Just ask me, the resident lore Vessel.

[marble oasis]

You mean people who only witnessed the black threads or those who got afflicted by it?

[craggy smelt]

either or both
those terrified of its power and wanting to appease it
those who were afflicted, then freed, but want to feel it again

could even work with just the regular Haunting of Silk as well

[marble oasis]

Well anyone who got afflicted is fucking dead

Worship the power they witnessed though maybe

[craggy smelt]

I don't know about that - it does drain bugs of life eventually, but some might survive it if it was ended in time

[foggy stratus]

Garmond is alive trust…

[craggy smelt]

for example

he's hanging out with Myla and Quirrel

[foggy stratus]

Nooooooo…

[limpid summit]

There’s no way any blackthreaded bug survives

Haunting you could probably live somehow

[craggy smelt]

we know the Haunting is survivable, Pavo and some Bellhartians survive

[limpid summit]

That feels more like a Sly Bretta infected thing

They don’t get up and attack you

[karmic moth]

Are ||Burning Bugs and Snitchflies victims of the Haunting?||

[edgy nebula]

burning bugs yes snitchflies idk

[limpid summit]

Burning bugs eh

They give off particles but that’s it

So does Menderbug

I think that’s a glitch

Snitchflies yeah idk

Probably not

[glacial warren]

I think the Burning Bugs are part of their own special madness.

[graceful grail]

Maybe since a DLC made THK saved, we might be able to save GMS in a future DLC 😏

[dire lynx]

myla is not like the other two

[marble oasis]

Pavo Haunting is equivalent to Sly Infection

Do living bugs get haunted?

[wet walrus]

Does the foresight respawn theory hold?

I mean the hunter says he has seen Shades on multiple occasions, there is a room where tk shade is kept in colesseum and after dying to the collector he will store the shade under a jar

Silk eaters exist

Though I don't know how consistent statements in hk are since the description of stalwart shell by sly implies invincibility frames are cannon

[marble oasis]

Where does the Geo come from

[craggy smelt]

yeah, she's definitely alive

[dire lynx]

as long as you didnt kill her, yes

[craggy smelt]

we see some pilgrims get haunted in Mosshome

[marble oasis]

Holy hope bait

[craggy smelt]

it's got me, yum yum yum

[stray fog]

Hornet extracts soul from enemies, just like the knight
Thats why there are silk particles

[edgy nebula]

they have strings during needolin 🤷

[edgy nebula]

silk particles on present agaisnt non haunted bugs

[marble oasis]

No reason they can’t be Haunted

Haunting just makes you do what you did in life and Snitchbugs loved attacking people and stealing their money

The ones in Grindle’s shop probably aren’t, though

[marble oasis]

Skrills don’t so

[limpid summit]

No I just dr if they have the strings and particles

The snitchflies

If so then yeah sure

[stray fog]

That's what Im saying

[edgy nebula]

holy shit i butchered my wording, what im saying is silk particles arent present on non-haunted bugs

[stray fog]

Oh

Maybe its because of the silk microplastic stuff

Skrills wont have that, but the Burning bugs might

[marble oasis]

That is true, but Burning Bugs still have the GMS strands

[midnight wagon]

Does anybody know about the hidden ending in game files?

No??

[marble oasis]

The one where it looks like they merge?

[midnight wagon]

Yea? I guess

[dire lynx]

what about it?

[midnight wagon]

No just curious

[near jasper]

Burning bugs arent haunted at least in the normal sense

[potent patio]

Idk if this is already known but I think that gms’s will started to slowly influence the bugs of the citadel once they started to use silk for everything, which is why their attitudes to weavers modern day are pretty rude and also why they captured and killed almost every one, including first sinner

[marble oasis]

Weavers WERE dickheads though tbf

[dire lynx]

we*vers are the worst

or were

[potent patio]

Yeah well they still probably propagandaed themselves as gods to the citadel

[marble oasis]

Yeah which is why the pilgrims worship them but the people who actually worked with them don’t like them

[near jasper]

Gms was actually pretty Smart with how she used the haunting near bone bottom

[mental thicket]

can anyone explain the dream lore to me

how am I able to bring the heart irl

Also was I the one who influenced the past through the dream?

Which is why those coral guy kinda fell off leaving 2 big annoying conchflies to rule the place

[edgy nebula]

by awakening and enlivening the hearts through battle

[edgy nebula]

no youre just going into the peoples memories

[dire lynx]

the hearts already existed in current day, the fights simply brout back the vigour of their youth

[mental thicket]

wait so was I not the reason crust king khann died

[edgy nebula]

no

[mental thicket]

but I literally fought him

[edgy nebula]

the kingdom was dried out and lost to time a long time ago

[mental thicket]

today

[stark marlin]

nyleth for example was already dead\

[edgy nebula]

hes in stasis cause the water dried out, hes basicalky already dead youre just going into his memories and fighting him in his prime

[stark marlin]

karmelita was barely alive too

[mental thicket]

was it karmelita who I used S+O on

it was hard to tell who it was

[edgy nebula]

karmelita is the big red ant queen

[mental thicket]

I don't remember tje name

[near jasper]

Nyleth is probably just a few bunches of roots that arent conscious anymore

[stark marlin]

yeah

[mental thicket]

I don't know who that is 😂

[stark marlin]

flower lady

[edgy nebula]

sister splinter describes her as sleeping i dont think shes dead

[near jasper]

The plant

[mental thicket]

oh yeah I'm not there yet

I only got like two hearts

But I almost know things

[edgy nebula]

itd be weird if all hearts were technically alive and nyleth is just dead

[mental thicket]

kinda deserved for taking like 5-6 months to act 2

[stark marlin]

well then all of them are basiclly dead but are technically alive

[near jasper]

Khann and nyleth are basically just hybernating for eternity

[whole holly]

we don't know that, she is said to be sleeping

i actually don't get why nyleth is sleeping, Khann is dehydrated and Karmelita is old but still alive and kicking, Nyleth has no real reason, unless it is a stage in her life? if she is similar species to isma it might make sense

[marble oasis]

She sustains the forest, or thinks she does

[whole holly]

Nyleth seems to be fountain in similar way Isma is source of Acid blight

[marble oasis]

So she wants to sleep eternally rather than die

[whole holly]

i know, is that why she is sleeping?

[whole holly]

are those her only two options? or just your hypothesis

[marble oasis]

She’s a mortal bug, she doesn’t have the power or energy to stay awake and alive forever

Even HBs can’t do that

[whole holly]

we know nothing about her lifespan

[marble oasis]

And

[whole holly]

Isma and Nyleth both seem to be petrified-ish

[edgy nebula]

we never see nyleths current body, just a shrine

she could just be rooted into the ground sleeping like unn, not petrified

[whole holly]

her statue might be her, possibly

[marble oasis]

The placement of her body within the memory implies it’s under the shrine, right?

[edgy nebula]

i dont think so, it has water flowing from it and i dont think its destroyed after the fight

[edgy nebula]

maybe, i wouldnt be surprised if it is

[marble oasis]

Makes sense for “sleeping deep”

although now i say it that’s probably more “deeply sleeping”

[whole holly]

that's interesting, considering we once accessed from shellwood, it makes sense if we accessed her from bottom and originally were able to see her body

[marble oasis]

Sleeping deep or deeply sleeping am I right

[whole holly]

i mean Water stops flowing from statue after fight, and her body doesn't necessarily have to be destroyed after fight, Green Prince's and karmelita's isn't, only khann's

[whole holly]

that's interesting and intriguing take for sure

[marble oasis]

Yeah Khann only disintegrates because of Karaka biology

[whole holly]

do you think we will see another heart in DLC?

[edgy nebula]

Prolly not

[whole holly]

people theorize everything from Moss Druid to Fayforn, but honestly we already know about Moss Druid hearing beat of moss lands, Sea of Sorrows might introduce something new

[marble oasis]

Worth noting that we pluck the heart directly from the shrine

[whole holly]

i agree

here is isma's body in comparasion, she like Nyleth's statue is overgrown, and immobile but Isma's body went drastic changes

[edgy nebula]

it does just grow on a vine

[whole holly]

i wish we saw her in her peak

[edgy nebula]

might iust be made by nyleth during the fight

[whole holly]

it is produced within flower, that is part of plant growth on statue

[edgy nebula]

yeah but i think the vine only appears after the fight

[whole holly]

i don't think that contributes anything substantially informative

[wet walrus]

Is Pharloom Israel?

[whole holly]

in what way? religious symbolism? many kingdoms in hollow knight universe and irl have that

[broken scarab]

me and my friend want to play multiplayer but only I have silksong on steam can someone give my friend their steam account or family share please 🥺

[wet walrus]

Other

[whole holly]

oh... you mean political traits, that's generally not as rare as it should be in both Hollow Knight universe and irl too

[marble oasis]

Fuck no 😭

Now get out of here you scallywag

[wet walrus]

Higher beings don't actually need followers to survive correct?

[whole holly]

it is possible Nightmare Heart and Radiance depend on it, but others may not, unless Unn depended on Mosskin joining her call and that's why she got weak... very different answer based on higher beings

[near jasper]

Maybe

Ig we havent seen one that had no followers at a point

[patent wing]

what even is a skull tyrant?

[near jasper]

Fat bug with a big bone

[foggy stratus]

Radiance nearly “died”(was forgotten) without any followers.

[near jasper]

Nearly

[patent wing]

yeah why does he have a bone?

[foggy stratus]

Found it.

[patent wing]

ok

[near jasper]

"But the memories of that ancient light still lingered, hush whispers of faith..."

[whole holly]

do you guys think we will see Abyss Creature in Sea of Sorrows

[foggy stratus]

Which one?

[whole holly]

there is only one Abyss Creature as far as i am aware, and it refers to creature that appears in Lifeblood Room in Abyss and Godhome's Lifeblood Room

[foggy stratus]

No probably not.

(I thought you might have for some reason been referring to the Shade Lord as the Abyss Creature for some reason and I didn’t want to assume)

[whole holly]

oh, that's okay

i am hoping that we see more Lifeblood content in Sea of Sorrows so we get more lore, i don't think we will see Abyss Creature in upcoming DLC, but who knows we might get to see it in later DLCs

[foggy stratus]

Ngl, Hornet has some pretty fucked up ideas. I’m pretty sure ForgeDaugter person makes a comment at how screwed up Hornet’s sting shard thing is and she also looks at some cloth and incineration mix and thinks “Hmm… grenades”

[whole holly]

her Red Tools, i agree but it shouldn't be unexpected since Gurr does it too

[foggy stratus]

The sting shard or pimpilo?

[whole holly]

sting shard, pimpilo was made by hornet with materals in room above yarnaby, it has nothing to do with forge daughter

[edgy nebula]

hes referring to both in his message

[foggy stratus]

Gurr and Hornet likely made their Sting Shards isolated from one another. Hornet’s at least predate Gurr’s.

[whole holly]

i mean Forge Daughter would only know about one

[whole holly]

that is true, yeah, but it still shouldn't be unexpected that hornet would ask forgedaughter for it

[foggy stratus]

Yeah, she’d want her tools she had in Hallownest back? But Forgedaughter still comments on it in a negative way from what I remember?

[whole holly]

true, Forge daughter not liking trap red tools isn't shocking concept, she seems to specialize in making blue tools(Magma Bell)

[foggy stratus]

(Off topic I fucking hate how many double damaging enemies are in Silksong… I just died to a fucking underworks enemy because it dealt double damage…)

[whole holly]

i hate Underworks enemies too

but luckily i got good on my second run

[foggy stratus]

Malnourished ass workers with black lung shouldn’t do double damage.

[whole holly]

exactly, only bosses

[solar gale]

They have black lung that's why they do double damage

[graceful grail]

OMG, Is Widow called Widow because “Black Widow Spider”

(not because she had a mate that died???)

Which would also explain why First Sinner uses the same track

[median jungle]

hey so im stupid and know nothing about silksong but like why does hornet need to learn silkspear and stuff if she literally uses it against you in hk is this evidence for sk prequel theory or something

[foggy stratus]

Its not a prequel. She's super weakened after getting caged and shit and likely lost the skills.

(also gameplay reasons)

[median jungle]

Fair enough

[tawdry flare]

what do you MEAN evidence for Silksong prequel theory. THE KNIGHT’S SHADE SHOWS UP AT THE END OF THE GAME!!!

[foggy stratus]

Clearly they didn't get to that point so more than likely you just hyper spoiled hem.

[median jungle]

I know that prequel theory is ass I'm wondering if this is a reason why it's been proposed by people

[tawdry flare]

The ending is ass anyway

[blazing tide]

It shows up in act 3 technically not the end of the game cause you can beat it in act 2

[median jungle]

nah I like to research way too much

[pale narwhal]

this channel is only for people who finished tho so irs their own fault

[foggy stratus]

The boss is tho.

[covert night]

https://x.com/mossbag69/status/2030773148648435740?s=20

mossbag (@mossbag69)

Newest Silksong patch removes the Conductor mask from the edge of Pharloom.

X · Mar 8, 2026, 10:30 PM

[lone folio]

Dang team cherry is cleaning upp the evidence

Ari Gibson is clearly the reason for why that fella died

[ionic stump]

I was gonna send this

https://tenor.com/view/they-got-him-ted-ted-show-gif-4342699035732514153

[tawdry flare]

This is a subtle nod to the fact that the Conductors have no plot relevance

[foggy stratus]

He gave away too much about the lore of Mr. Mushroom's relation to Zote and Greyroot.

[near jasper]

The only reason it exists is the first few announcements regarding silksong they hadnt said it was a sequel yet

[sinful nimbus]

Another glorious win for Romino Old Penitent truthers

[near jasper]

old penitent doesnt really look like a conductor

[sinful nimbus]

There could be variation among conductors

[near jasper]

We never see that even hinted at

[craggy smelt]

how can you even tell? with the mantle and the robe, they could look like anything under there

[near jasper]

I dont think conductors are actually the entire size of the robe

[craggy smelt]

that would just make it easier to put anyone under it

[near jasper]

Also conductors made the laws and forced themselves into the kings of the citadel how would one end up in the slab

[sinful nimbus]

Romino was talking smack in his poem

[covert night]

i wonder if they just changed their mind and moved the mask to the pharloom bay or something

[near jasper]

They feed it to the pinstress

[near jasper]

Also I dont think a conductor would fully believe the slab is holy being locked up in it for at least a half century id say

[sinful nimbus]

What why

[craggy smelt]

there's another Unraveled out there
running around with a new mask

[near jasper]

Also I think through the multiple surgeries a conductors mantle would be hard to remove

Ballador still wears it after every bug in the citadel is dead except like 3

[sinful nimbus]

Why would that be surgically embedded though

[near jasper]

Not what I said

Hard to remove

[sinful nimbus]

Why

Idk how the surgeries would affect that

[near jasper]

The unravelled is presumably mostly a conductors body after dying in surgery

His whole robe is intact

Outside just rust

[sinful nimbus]

The body visibly isn't there its just a helmet with some attached cloth

[near jasper]

Also ngl

Unravelled needolin makes me think it fits romino better

Your Silk... pure!
Your shell... strong!
Ours... ours...
...Old... glory...

[sinful nimbus]

Conductor Mizello is more likely imo as you get that tape immediately after the fight

[finite wind]

so why did they remove the conductor hat

[near jasper]

Yes

[near jasper]

Oh yk

[foggy stratus]

It decomposed.

[fast terrace]

So is Lace Hornet's aunt? Think about it. If GMS made Herrah (through speculation), then Herrah made Hornet, and GMS made Lace, would that make Lace Herrah's sister, and thus, Hornet's aunt?

[sinful nimbus]

In a sense yeah

[foggy fractal]

not at a biological level though

[near jasper]

Close enough

[fast terrace]

lacenet shippers be crying rn

[edgy nebula]

huh???

[edgy nebula]

theyre crying anyway cause lace is a child

[fast terrace]

oh yeah

[foggy stratus]

Don't call it Lacenet, call it Horce.

[fast terrace]

horse

https://klipy.com/gifs/horse-horse-shock

[near jasper]

Embed fail

Skill issue

[fast terrace]

yep

[near jasper]

This is the only thing ive heard of this new patch so far

[foggy stratus]

What the fuck is that.

[fast terrace]

more blur too

horse

[near jasper]

Maybe the first screenshot is the blurless version from the wiki

[fast terrace]

maybe

[near jasper]

Not like you need the Blur gone to see nothing on the second one

[spark valve]

Retconsong continues

[muted lantern]

Romino had places to be he was just napping

[limpid summit]

Romino is still alive

[foggy stratus]

He left the stove on.

[near jasper]

Wait

Hornet made up the name moorwing for the journal

Are these squirms

The crawfather actually knows hornet is a weaver descendant

Somehow

[near jasper]

Its fun having the pushable lanterns in architect melody room be breakable

[marble oasis]

Those are muckroach halves

Those two spots are not eyes

[near jasper]

Cool

[muted lantern]

Fucked up that they gave bugs internal bones and exoskeletons

Though it seems like they have 2 bones in their body soo

Who knows

[near jasper]

Muckroach spine

They have 2

[marble oasis]

Amongus biology

[near jasper]

Huh

Snail shaman shells are just the pointy Wizard hats of the hollow knight verse

[robust wagon]

Sure

[robust wagon]

I don't think all bugs (in hollow knight or irl) have exoskeletons

[muted lantern]

Sure but the ones we see with bones seem to. Roaches seem to have hard shells

In game and irl

[edgy nebula]

kill team cherry for even daring to add bug bones

[muted lantern]

Yeah it really bugs me. I've got a bone to pick with them

[craggy smelt]

skull joke yo ho ho

[stray fog]

It does what to you

https://tenor.com/view/say-that-again-say-that-say-that-agian-marvel-fantastic-gif-12441585058103544841

[muted lantern]

Did you miss the second pun

[stray fog]

No

I thought the first one was unintentional

[graceful grail]

Why is the Marrow a thing when bugs dont have Bones Or Marrow??

[edgy nebula]

bugs in hollow knight have bones

[graceful grail]

Silk is what GMS is Biologically. So at least i consider lace and hornet somewhat biologically related.

[graceful grail]

Enough to make a lava lake crossable with their bones 🦴

[languid trout]

hi

[languid trout]

wsp

[robust wagon]

Yes

[blissful harbor]

they aren’t though, biologically at least

[robust wagon]

Wait is this real

[edgy nebula]

yeah

[worthy forum]

Shaw 🗣️ 🗣️ 🗣️

[jagged sun]

I have a question, are the Blackbarrens mentioned in the cradle just the Abyss? Maybe there were two weavers down there, one dying before GMS could find them and the other getting captured.

The dead one giving Silk Soar

[dire lynx]

Blackbarrens are probably a kingdom considering everything else named appears to be (pretty much baseless, but may be related to the Blackwyrm)

[midnight reef]

The Black Barrens are likely just another kingdom or area

We know litterally nothing other than that

[dreamy onyx]

I wonder if the reason they removed the Conductor mask from Blasted Steps

[craggy smelt]

I doubt it, the Abyss seems really far removed from everything

it sounds pretty empty and lifeless, going by the name

I wonder if its just another part of the wastelands, like the 'Sandsea Waste'

[midnight reef]

I really like the theory a video put forwards that volcanic activity in Pharlooms distant past is what disconnects it so much from the Abyss

[marble oasis]

This is my opinion

[midnight reef]

Barrens to me sounds like it implies like, a barony? whats the word

[smoky ferry]

teets

[midnight reef]

I get that its spelt wrong for that though

[smoky ferry]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1284462472572571680/1440734434407092417/speechmemified_photo_2025-11-19_23-01-02.gif

[stray fog]

The religious history video?

[midnight reef]

Yeah

[stray fog]

W

[midnight reef]

facinating video, I love it

[smoky ferry]

cuscus

don't let me alone

[craggy smelt]

barony is the word for a place ruled by a baron
barren is like a place without life - a barren wasteland

[midnight reef]

Yeah

it'd be a play on words, which well, not something that Team Cherry is beyond

its litterally Pharloom

[craggy smelt]

blackwyrm barony

[midnight reef]

no

no black wyrm

no bad yak

[craggy smelt]

it's in the name

[midnight reef]

okay they're uh, what?

[craggy smelt]

<@&283547423706447872> spammer

[midnight reef]

I think someone needs a mute..?

oh, and they're posting stupid gifs and getting repeated embedded failures

skill issue

you, you are they

anyways

[midnight reef]

Blackwyrm is a signular word though, and it'd seem odd to have another kingdom defined by a wyrm considering Pharloom knows Hallownest as "The Kingdom of the Wyrm"

[craggy smelt]

so is Blackbarrens - checkmate
we're going to wyrmtown

[midnight reef]

oh no

it is White Wyrm

I missed that, lol

"Full Chamber to the kingdom of the White Wyrm. Claim the Weaver, in half part. Last of their line. Sensed strong with Silk.

Resistance anticipated. Quell with rune cage."```

[marble oasis]

hallownest is absolutely not the only wyrm kingdom

wyrms love making kingdoms

[midnight reef]

Clearly

I do question if the Pale King was the last Wyrm

or if he was really, reallly... whats the word

Overconfident?

Grandious?

god theres a word for this that I cant find

[marble oasis]

bardoon says with its like gone the world is smaller

[marble oasis]

arrogant?

[midnight reef]

Eh, not really

Arrogant is close

[craggy smelt]

something to do with hubris?

[midnight reef]

Yeah

[craggy smelt]

I don't know if he was the very last

Bardoon's words could be taken as him saying there aren't any more though

[marble oasis]

i think "its like gone" is just referring to the corpse decaying

but thats partly a desire for more wyrms

[craggy smelt]

could just be referring to the Pale Wyrm
like 'with this grand thing gone, the world has become a little less incredible'

[midnight reef]

Yeah

[marble oasis]

doubt

he talks about the corpse itself the sentence before

[midnight reef]

I do wonder if or how Wyrms can reproduce

[marble oasis]

so "its like" is talking about the corpse itself or all wyrms/wyrm corpses

[marble oasis]

if Wyrms can reproduce

Does she know?

[midnight reef]

They seem very genetically compatible with other bugs, seeing the Vessels and Hornet
But that doesnt produce a Wyrm, that just makes bugs that have some very powerful abilities

Does it mean that two wyrms need to reproduce to get a "proper" wyrm?

[marble oasis]

prolly

Maybe a wyrm and a half-wyrm could get there

[midnight reef]

Maybe

Its not like the half wyrms arent capbable of feats like a Wyrm

I get that Hornet binds GMS, but part of her already wanted to take control of Pharloom

Maybe thats the intention for Wyrms? Just make half breeds that can spread out and blow up other kingdoms? XD

[marble oasis]

They don’t have foresight or beacon or anything

[midnight reef]

They do have heighted awareness, at least

Considering Hornet is aware of her being in Godhome, as Grimm and... someone else that Im forgetting

Oh the White Lady

The White Lady is also powerful enough to know when Hornet is diving into her own memories to speak to her in the present

Dream Realm bullshittery!

[marble oasis]

That’s not a Wyrm thing though that’s HB thing

And snail shaman, midwife, bardoon, etc

[craggy smelt]

being a higher being probably includes a host of powers and higher perceptions

which some other bugs might approach (Seer, Snails, etc.) without reaching that true 'higher' state

[craggy smelt]

its implied to be something common to pale beings, the 'higher caste'
we don't know if all wyrms are part of it

[midnight reef]

The Snails are interesting

Silksong strengthens my belief in the theory that the Snails are the descendant of the Ancient Civilization, in some form

the entire Abyss of Silksong is Snail Shells

[craggy smelt]

boo

I think they're meant to reference ammonite shells, not snail shells

[midnight reef]

Maybe

[craggy smelt]

ancient fossils, implying the immense age of the Abyss

[midnight reef]

IDK I like the Snail theory more

I guess you cant really tell between the two

[craggy smelt]

spirals is spirals

personally, I like the idea of the AC having no connection with modern groups

they disappeared before anything

[midnight reef]

if only we could see inside them we could make a proper determination

[finite wind]

Yeah they are ammonite shells

[whole holly]

i do want there to be living descendants of AC, i want there to be last member of that civilization or something similar

[whole holly]

i also want to know why bugs in steel society can control void

[broken scarab]

anyone has silksong on steam me and my friend want to play multiplayer but only i have it

[lone flint]

i can perfectly envision void tendrils coming out from the opening of this shell

[foggy stratus]

Probably imprinted their will onto raw Void.

[whole holly]

imprinting we seen so far works differently

[solar gale]

vro no one gonna give you their steam account just work for it and buy him shit yourself

[whole holly]

do you guys think that Sea of Sorrows will bring Steel Assassin Sharpe, i hope it will but i somewhat doubt it

[foggy stratus]

You do roughly understand what I mean tho right?

[cyan imp]

I think it will be in another dlc not sea of sorrow but it would be cool tho

[whole holly]

Roughly yes, some weird manipulation probably related to will and mind

[swift brook]

Once upon a shaw, there was a weaver named hornet, she shawed around hollownest for a good while but eventually left, as she was exploring she was kidnapped by vile bugs and brought to pharloom, from there she explored and explored, unlocking new abilities and crests, eventually she came upon the citadel, and the rest, is history
The shaw

[fast terrace]

shaw

[swift brook]

Shaw

[stray fog]

Steel city mentioned ‼️ ‼️ ‼️

[stray fog]

Probably not imo

[stray fog]

What about tk's shade

They couldn't have imprinted anything on that

But jiji can summon it

[foggy stratus]

(Noncanon interaction)

[foggy stratus]

The Vessel infant’s mind.

[stray fog]

Similar fossils were present in hk near the abyss
But at that time, tc clearly intended for shamans to have no intrest in the void

[stray fog]

The steel people didn't do that

[stray fog]

True

[foggy stratus]

Yeah?

[stray fog]

I was trying to say that the steel people didn't imprint anything on tk's shade, but they can summon it

But if tk's shade isn't canon, it doesn't matter

[foggy stratus]

The Shade is canon, summoning it isn’t.

[near jasper]

it isnt?

[foggy stratus]

You need to respawn to have that interaction so no.

[stray fog]

Shades in general are canon
Tk respawning, or fighting its shade isn't canon

[near jasper]

Cool

[whole holly]

where is it said that re-spawning isn't canon,

[stray fog]

It is usually not canon

In most games

Some games make it canon, but it is clear when they're doing that

[foggy stratus]

Because it makes no sense for it to be canon.

[whole holly]

sure but information we would get from Jiji summoning our shade would still be applicable in lore

[near jasper]

The knight not respawning after the ending where they died is probably a sign

[stray fog]

Its in a grey area so idk what to make of it yet

[foggy stratus]

The only way for that interaction to take place requires TK to die so it’s not canon.

[whole holly]

applying it to lore-relevant information we get from Jiji doesn't make sense

[near jasper]

The part that couldn't happen Is the knight asking for the shade to be summoned the rest can probably happen if someone pays jiji with an egg

[whole holly]

it doesn't make sense, If information can be derived from it and somebody uses that information in argument, their argument would still be valid, regardless of canon status

[stray fog]

I think that jiji summoning our shade is canon
Because tk will release a shade when it dies, even in canonical death. And jiji summoning it might not be an event that canonically takes place, but it still means that she is capable of such a summon

[whole holly]

it doesn't need to, it's canon status isn't confirmed and using that against Jiji's dialogue is invalid

[whole holly]

it is lore-wise very relevant so invalidating it with non- canon status is detrimental to lore knowledge

[stray fog]

Exactly

Shes still capable of summoning a shade

[foggy stratus]

The summoning happens in a noncanon environment so asserting it can happen when the only evidence for it is a noncanon interaction is dubious at best.

[near jasper]

What if someone else just pays her to summon the shade

[foggy stratus]

Then I’d agree that she can, but we never see her summon it in a canon environment.

And we never learn of her summoning a shade in the same manor.

[near jasper]

Imma be honest I havent spoiled myself for silksong steel soul yet

[stray fog]

The reason for the interaction not being canon is that the knight can't go to jiji and ask for a shade Teleport

But canonically, tk's shade is still there. Tk's presence in the hut doesn't have any impact on jiji's summoning magic. So if someone else asked jiji to summon that shade, she should still be able to do it

[near jasper]

But doesnt a jiji like guy summon the void there

?

[stray fog]

Yeah

[whole holly]

if that's the case canon status simply doesn't matter in lore, as non-canon environment is still important to lore, plus respawning being non-canon is your assumption

"it doesn't make sense to be canon" is not valid argument, that's a lazy assumption

[near jasper]

Its not it doesnt make sense its we didnt see it

[foggy stratus]

TK’s shell cracks, its physical body is torn to shreds and its shade pops out. Then it just wakes up at a bench like nothing happened.

Does that make sense?

[near jasper]

No

[frosty gate]

What is the topic?

[whole holly]

i don't understand what we are saying

[near jasper]

Basic teleporting magic on a shade makes sense

[whole holly]

respawning doesn't need to make lore sense for jiji's interaction to be applicable to lore, though

[stray fog]

Is jiji canonically able to summon shades

[stray fog]

The conflict is that the knight can't respawn

[whole holly]

knight doesn't need to respawn for us to know that Jiji can summon regrets

[stray fog]

I agree

[frosty gate]

Why wouldn't it be canon?

[near jasper]

The knight cant ask her to do it

Because they died

[stray fog]

Im on the side of it being canon

@foggy stratus 's point is that jiji summoning our shade happens after the knight respawns, so its a non-canon situation

But I think that doesn't take away from her capability of summoning shades

[frosty gate]

Right, but that doesn't take away the Fact that Jiji is almost 100% confirmed to be a Steel Vassal working with/for Jinn

[whole holly]

she clarified that she can summon regrets in her dialogue without us dying

[finite wind]

(aka void)

[near jasper]

Wait I just noticed something

Every mechanical bug we talk to has a stutter

[frosty gate]

I don't like the Regrets dialogue because it feels ambiguous as fuck, but she is definitely able to manipulate Void to an extent

[finite wind]

I don't think it is

hornet has void in coccon too

[near jasper]

If theyre singing to keep gms asleep after the choir was replaced then no shit shes waking up

[stray fog]

You cooked 🔥

[finite wind]

old ass machines

[whole holly]

Yeah

[near jasper]

The cocoon is a way weirder system than the shade ngl

[stray fog]

We have more information on shades

Than the cocoon

[finite wind]

it kind of is a shade

[near jasper]

Heres a floating ball of silk with your soul inside

[whole holly]

plus Shade has Hunter's Journal entry which makes it canon

[stray fog]

A thing I noticed is that the black thing inside the cocoon looks like hornet right before she turns into the weaver queen

[whole holly]

does Cocoon have hunter's journal entry i forgot

[near jasper]

Its just how she looks naked

[stray fog]

Shades in general are canon

[near jasper]

No

[finite wind]

it is a void version of hornet

[whole holly]

i wish it did, it feels like cop out

[frosty gate]

https://tenor.com/view/family-guy-woah-hold-up-wait-gif-5693923

[stray fog]

Do we know for sure that its void?

[finite wind]

it isnt an enemy, so

[finite wind]

based on previous shade information and how it behaves, I'd think so

[stray fog]

Lmao

[near jasper]

The best lore we have on cocoons is theyre probably physical

[frosty gate]

It really isnt

[near jasper]

Its regrets probably

Also probably not void

Like in the middle somewhere

[frosty gate]

I can't go check on my own right now because I'm not at home but I'm pretty sure when the blackness hits the ground it scatters and makes scuttling noises

It's spiders

[near jasper]

Lemme check

[coarse walrus]

silksong should get a POP lore thing imo

[frosty gate]

Closest thing we have so far it's the climb for The Surface

[coarse walrus]

yeah

I haven't made it that far

I don't think

I'm still trying for last darkheart

[frosty gate]

Dark heart?

[coarse walrus]

oldheart things

[frosty gate]

Oh ok, yeah

[coarse walrus]

karmelita

I could do verdania but still

is that climb after?

[frosty gate]

Huuuuuh yeah no the climb is totally optional

Do beware of spoilers here

[near jasper]

You can do it now if you wanna

[coarse walrus]

I want to do it but idk when I can do it

[frosty gate]

We are not bound

[coarse walrus]

oh interesting what must I do

[coarse walrus]

I don't mind

[near jasper]

Its near fleatopia you start the quest that leads you there

Use silksoar on a light

[coarse walrus]

oh in putrified ducts? thats where my fleatopia is

[near jasper]

Yes

[frosty gate]

To be fair, the Fleatopia thing is way more optional, I just found it on its own before that

[near jasper]

Its in the room with the fleas you start the quest for it

[coarse walrus]

Ah ok thanks I still didn't get last pale ore yet

from seth

highscores

[near jasper]

That one is from the normal flea scores iirc

[coarse walrus]

yeah

[near jasper]

Beating the fleas' score

[coarse walrus]

I'm def gonna try the climb later

[frosty gate]

Go to Fleatopia, rightmost side of the Pale Lake, there's a small climb the you can Silk Soar into a little hole in the ceiling hiden

[coarse walrus]

ok ty

[frosty gate]

You'll find what will guide you the The Climb there

[coarse walrus]

Isn't that where I found journeys end?

[near jasper]

No

[coarse walrus]

no wait unless that was bile

[near jasper]

Yeah it was

[coarse walrus]

ah ok

[near jasper]

Its in the room with fleatopia

[coarse walrus]

ok ty

[near jasper]

I had a cool idea for what silksong's pop could be

[frosty gate]

Did you do it?

[frosty gate]

Another race with Sprint please

[near jasper]

It looks like spiders from what I saw

Couldnt get the sound

The wiki seems to have just died

[frosty gate]

The wiki is working? I had it open a few minutes ago

[near jasper]

Oh cool

I think its spiders

"The sprite for this is called "death_spider_core" "

Thank you wiki for reviving

[coarse walrus]

I'm reading its in the pharlooms citadel oddly

[frosty gate]

It is spiders, it makes no sense it could even be Void

[frosty gate]

The Climb?

[coarse walrus]

yeah

[near jasper]

The climb is in the citadel

[frosty gate]

Yeah, you will get there eventually

I just recommend you to do the Fleatopia thing first

[coarse walrus]

so its not putrified ducts

ok

[frosty gate]

Because if not, you'll have to climb twice

[near jasper]

There is Something thatll make the climb more worth it there

[coarse walrus]

ohhh ok

ok thank you

[frosty gate]

Oh yeah no, I don't think that has much to do with her Awakening

It could be, I just think it's kinda cheap

[swift brook]

Shaw

[near jasper]

I feel like last judge could use some more lore

[frosty gate]

The entire area of Blasted Steps/Karak could use more lore

[near jasper]

Its weird last judge is still doing their job perfectly despite the haunting

[tawdry flare]

Silksong could use some more lore

[near jasper]

She overrides the entire haunting's aggression to let sherma in the citadel

[frosty gate]

That's been known to happen

[frosty gate]

LJ is Haunted, it just keeps doing its job

Everything in Pharloom keeps working, even if Haunted

[near jasper]

Yes

But shes not actually aggresive like the other haunted workers

Not even the normal judges do that

[frosty gate]

They do

Nothing attacks Sherma until he reaches Whiteward

[near jasper]

They dont attack anything other than hornet

And I dont think every single pilgrim there is sinless

[frosty gate]

There's a lot of dead Pilgrims on the way up to the Gate

[near jasper]

They dont kill the haunted pilgrims

[frosty gate]

Because they're haunted

[near jasper]

That doesn't absolve you of all sin

[frosty gate]

I don't think Haunted things would attack each other

[near jasper]

Then that means theyre not actually doing their job

[frosty gate]

Wait, is there even an instance of a Judge and a Haunted Pilgrim in the same place?

[near jasper]

Yes

They get killed off in act 3 but there is

Also you can bring the drill bugs to them

[frosty gate]

I can't remember

[frosty gate]

That's irrelevant tbh

[near jasper]

Still

Last judge is overriding the haunting to still be a good judge

[frosty gate]

Which, again, is not a weird thing

[near jasper]

Haunted bugs are agressive to everything

[frosty gate]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Hardbone_Hopper Except when they're not

[hoary furnace]

What do you guys think about the Conductor mask on the surface?

[frosty gate]

It's definitely Romino's mantle, but I wonder whether he escaped and took it off, or if he got killed/imprisoned and that got thrown out

[hoary furnace]

because apparently TC removed the mask recently

and im a bit conflicted on how it feel about it

does it mean that it was somehow an oversight?

or did TC change their mind as they're working on Sea of Sorrows?

[frosty gate]

Oh

[hoary furnace]

does it imply that Romino never got out?

[frosty gate]

I didn't know about that

[hoary furnace]

i only found out about it today

[frosty gate]

I heavily doubt that this is an oversight

It's been too long

It definitely has lore implications

Whether the implications is "Someone saw the mask and too it"

Or "TC changed their mind and decided to do something else with it"

[hoary furnace]

the latter seems more plausible

especially because new players coming in wouldn't know about the mask being there in the first place

[frosty gate]

Yeah that makes sense

Now we gotta wait to see where it pops up again

If it even does

Always bet on Old Penitent is Romino

[sinful nimbus]

We're so back

[frosty gate]

We never left

[near jasper]

What patch even was this

"the conductor mask was removed" is the only thing ive heard of a new patch since they fixed silksoar

[foggy stratus]

Now why’d ya have to go and ping me?

[frosty gate]

You are the one with the argument

[whole holly]

ehh

[silk dirge]

wait wtf the blasted steps conductor hat got removed

tc is fucking with us

[near jasper]

Yeah you're the 4th person to say that

[silk dirge]

i just learned about it lol

[stray fog]

Oh

[stray fog]

Sorry

[stray fog]

Does this count as a case of retconsong?

[sinful nimbus]

Ofc

They ruined the lore

[near jasper]

Someone should probably go update the wiki on it

Last i checked it still said romino was probably that conductor mask

[lyric widget]

we only change pages once the update is on the live version. it's still on the beta currently

[frosty gate]

One of these days they're just gonna say "We deleted all the endings because we fucking hate you"

[frosty gate]

Here's hoping it actually doesn't happen, or that it can be found somewhere else at the very least

[foggy fractal]

😨

[lyric widget]

we checked and in the beta, that sprite doesn't exist anywhere else now. there's a chance it could return in sea of sorrow maybe

[sinful nimbus]

Can't believe they retconned Strung to Serve

[foggy fractal]

😔 can't believe they retconned bugpipers

[frosty gate]

They are actually gonna delete everything and bring back Strung to Serve

[frosty gate]

It being in SoS makes sense, but I wouldn't count on it

[obtuse crest]

a

[stray fog]

Can't believe they retconned double damage from the blasted steps worms 😔

[frosty gate]

Honestly I was bothered about it

I'm very glad I beat the game in its worst state possible

Absolutely fucking hate Moorwing

[foggy stratus]

They could have just said my name.

[frosty gate]

That would defeat the purpose of arguing with you if the conversation moves on from it

[foggy stratus]

By that point I had already stopped replaying to points directed at me so the ping was kinda pointless(also my attention had to be moved away from this conversation)

[sinful nimbus]

I hope they fix the double damage animations for single damage obstacles/enemies at some point ngl

Just feels weird

[edgy nebula]

yeah youre just waiting for the double damage to come but it never does

[foggy fractal]

yeah that tripped me up on my second playthrough sometimes

[frosty gate]

Make them double damage again!!!!

Make Pharloom horrible again!!!!

[foggy stratus]

MPHA!

[near jasper]

They should increase bilewater

[foggy stratus]

Make Bilewater Great gain.

[edgy nebula]

https://youtu.be/o5BDWeyiRsg this video seems nice

[plain ruin]

I need to watch this at some point

Seems like an interesting series

Wonder if it’ll theorize about individual Weavers?

[midnight reef]

Who knows, its facinating though

[edgy nebula]

ok not the best start, they do say shamans had a connection with void in the first game which is wrong, they also say far fields is inside a giant shell which i dont think is true

they do bring up bone bottom also being inside a giant shell though which i think could have some merit

[midnight reef]

I love the theory that what broke the Ancient Civilizations/The Voids hold on Pharloom was an ancient volcanic event putting Magma between the people and their place of worship

[edgy nebula]

they also say that there are snail shells in both abysses (probably cause they look like spirals) but dont think that's true

[edgy nebula]

thatd be cool

[foggy stratus]

Wait new theory just dropped:
Hallownest Shamans disowned Pharloom Shamans because Pharloom Shamans messed with Void. Trust bro it makes sense

[midnight reef]

we cant tell if they're snail or ammonites without seeing their insides ;3

of the shells*

[frosty gate]

They're talking about this thing I believe

But I hate Snail Shaman talk

[edgy nebula]

yeah but i dont think these are necessarily snail shaman shells

[foggy stratus]

Thats a fucking rock.

[edgy nebula]

im like 90% sure theyre just random background assets made to look like sea fossils

[frosty gate]

Fuck the Ancient Mound Snail

[foggy stratus]

Don't do that, what if he doesn't wanna?

[frosty gate]

Then he can say no and don't get anything

I hate that guy so much

[stray fog]

These "snail fossils" are in the hk abyss
In hk, Tc intended for shamans to not have any connection to void

This means that these fossils aren't related to snail shamans

[foggy stratus]

They’re just rocks tbh.

[frosty gate]

I'm not gonna defend this

But I will say

We don't know what TC intended

[stray fog]

The screenshot above doesn't even have spirals
Its just a disc shaped rock

[stray fog]

True ig

Its just the ancestral mound shaman

[foggy stratus]

-# it does lowkey look like a spiral tbh but still just a rock.

[stray fog]

Retconsong

[frosty gate]

Who I fully believe is just stupid

[foggy stratus]

Opinion doesn’t matter here, he’s still a shaman.

[stray fog]

The rock kinda matches the shape in the centre of the chapel door in this image

[foggy stratus]

Only living one in Hallownest at that.

[edgy nebula]

genuinely there is no connection with shamans to the void in hollow knight at all, even if the ancestral shaman is just stupid

[stray fog]

I might be grasping at straws though

[frosty gate]

It matters because this guy will be taken fully serious when he speaks about certain stuff while also not knowing all of his family is dead

[foggy stratus]

He just hasn’t been out of the house in a while. It doesn’t make him a moron.

[stray fog]

Not knowing that his relatives have died can be explained by him never leaving his mound

Not knowing about his family's (apparently super famous) hyperfixation can't be explained by that

[frosty gate]

You get Descending Dark from Shaman in Cristalyzed Mound

[foggy stratus]

You just use them as a catalyst to warp the spell.

[edgy nebula]

explicitly explained as tk using shaman corpses as a catalyst to merge their own essence with the spells

[stray fog]

The ancestral mound guy says that it has something to do with spells mixing with the knight's essence

[random harbor]

Snail Shaman - Reacting to spells - Reacting to Descending Dark

My friend. My friend. There's another quality about you yet. You didn't perchance visit my fourth aunt?
She makes her home beside that Crystal Mount. Leaves quite an impression on those that seek her out. Were I not bound here, I'd love to visit myself.

@dhruv._19 used /npcs misc name: Snail Shaman category: Reacting to spells dialogue: Reacting to Descending Dark

Snail Shaman - Reacting to spells - Reacting to Shade Soul

What's this? My vengeful gift has warped within you. You've twisted it into something... else.
Ohohohoh! I knew it. My friend! You're a marvel. Your essence has melded with the spell.
You must have found a powerful source to transform it in such a unique, expressive way.

@dhruv._19 used /npcs misc name: Snail Shaman category: Reacting to spells dialogue: Reacting to Shade Soul

[stray fog]

This one

[foggy stratus]

He also mentions the spell warping in regards to Abyss Shriek.

[stray fog]

The abyss shreik room still bothers me

When will tc explain that weirdass room

[foggy stratus]

Never.

It’s the ‘I have no mouth and I must scream’ chamber forever more.

[frosty gate]

He says it for another spell and it doesn't make any sense because why wouldn't it just merge with our energy from the get go????

Why do we go through a Soul version first and then we get Void version through Snails out of all things

[foggy stratus]

Because you use the snail as a catalyst to meld the spell with your Void body.

[stray fog]

Even if he said it for another spell, it is probably a general concept

[frosty gate]

It becomes even more weirder to think about it that way because IF snails weren't at the very least vaguely related, all upgrades would be found like Abyss Shriek, in a place not related to the snails

[edgy nebula]

the shamans probably provide enough soul for tk to meld their essence with the spell without immediately destroying it

[stray fog]

In a perfect world, that one dialogue would be different, and snail shaman void relations would have existed since hk

Can tc address this 🙏

[edgy nebula]

id consider the abyss shriek room the outlier, not the snails

[foggy stratus]

Again, there’s this theory I made. Perfectly explains it all.

[frosty gate]

Which is exactly my problem, this one character with this stupid dialogue is the only reason as to why Snail-Void relations are not a thing in Hollow Knight because if you remove his dumb dialogue it would be like "Oh yeah, Snails and Void, I guess that makes sense"

[stray fog]

Ikr bro I want snail-void relations to make sense

[frosty gate]

But if the Outlier is the one that makes sense and the ones that don't are the Status quo

Wtf we talking about?????????

[stray fog]

This is the worst topic out of all retconsong discussions 🙏

[frosty gate]

As I said, if only they made it so Void Upgrades could be found in Void related places

Like Abyss Shriek

It would make sense that Snails have nothing to do with it

But the fact that we found two upgrades from Snails, despite the Snails seemingly not being connected to Void

Makes this whole thing ridiculous

[frosty gate]

This would almost make sense, but we kill the Soul Master to get DD

[foggy stratus]

It’s because they were used as a catalyst for the spell to meld with TK. They aren’t related to the Void, they were just used as a power source for TK to augment the spells with its own essence.

[foggy stratus]

He stole the spell likely from the Shaman we find in Soul Sanctum.