sk-lore

[crystal marsh]

@mint dragon sorry that I'm pinging a specific mod (for someone posting memes in a lore channel) but I literally can't ping the Mods role

[wet walrus]

I think Pale King could have foreseen the protagonist because
1- The dreamers are sealed outside of black egg when we see in sealed siblings ending hornet serves as a dreamer inside the black egg making it impossible to break the seal of the egg
2- Monomon who was kind of an advisor I think regarding the vessels and seals says multiple times "the seals must be undone"
3- There are multiple lore tablets who seemingly inform the knight directly such as how to focus in one.
4- At one point all of the characters namely Old Stag, Hornet, Monomon, Quirrel understand the fate of Hallownest is at the hands of the protagonist with Monomon herself tasked Quirrel to help the protagonist break her seal.
5- Hornet is aware of the options the ghost can take to determine the fate of Hallownest (not counting EtV) which is either continuing the cycle or facing the heart of the infection.

[dusky bay]

I still wanna know why zote looks like a vessel but he isnt a vessel

Since he DOES speak
Has a mind
And has feelings

[edgy nebula]

he's a bastardization of the knight

[dusky bay]

Yea but he does say his sword is from shellwood so he has been there and greyroot looks like a decayed or parasitic version of the white lady

They both are trees

[edgy nebula]

his sword is made of shellwood, which might just be a generic name for wood in the hollow knight universe

[carmine oyster]

i thought zote was from hk not silksong

[edgy nebula]

it's left ambiguous but is technically possible

[dusky bay]

Eh maybe greyroot somehow made zote like the white lady made vessels but idk :p
This is still the most thing that confuses me that why is zote literally a knight that talks
Has feeling
And is fucking ass

[dusky bay]

I am talking about the shellwood part and how greyroot looks like the white lady

[carmine oyster]

this stuff is too complicated for me

[craggy smelt]

I'm against any theory that has Zote be in any way important or interesting

it goes against the very spirit of the character, which is to be a dumb loser

zote happens to resemble the vessels for the same reason as elderbug - they're just regular common bugs, which the vessels are said to resemble

[dusky bay]

We were gonna get zote boat

[craggy smelt]

the zotersible submersible

(is what it will be now)

[covert night]

they even made experiments with the void and still couldn't kill gms 💔💔

[dreamy onyx]

Zote was made to fool common bugs and lure them to Greyroot, but he didn't want to and ran away on a mission or smth

that's my hc

[solemn river]

The ℑ𝔫𝔳𝔦𝔫𝔠𝔦𝔟𝔩𝔢, 𝔉𝔢𝔞𝔯𝔩𝔢𝔰𝔰, 𝔖𝔢𝔫𝔰𝔲𝔞𝔩, 𝔐𝔶𝔰𝔱𝔢𝔯𝔦𝔬𝔲𝔰, 𝔈𝔫𝔠𝔥𝔞𝔫𝔱𝔦𝔫𝔤, 𝔙𝔦𝔤𝔬𝔯𝔬𝔲𝔰, 𝔇𝔦𝔩𝔦𝔤𝔢𝔫𝔱, 𝔒𝔳𝔢𝔯𝔴𝔥𝔢𝔩𝔪𝔦𝔫𝔤, 𝔊𝔬𝔯𝔤𝔢𝔬𝔲𝔰, 𝔓𝔞𝔰𝔰𝔦𝔬𝔫𝔞𝔱𝔢, 𝔗𝔢𝔯𝔯𝔦𝔣𝔶𝔦𝔫𝔤, 𝔅𝔢𝔞𝔲𝔱𝔦𝔣𝔲𝔩, 𝔞𝔫𝔡 𝔓𝔬𝔴𝔢𝔯𝔣𝔲𝔩 Grey Prince Zote does not lure, but thy hunts in favour of maidens

[edgy nebula]

how hornet feels not giving a fuck when weavers try to harness void but clowning on pk for it every second of silksong

[craggy smelt]

that's... definitely an accurate summary of exactly what happens

[dire lynx]

weavers are so racist to everyone lmao

[muted lantern]

"every second of silksong" doesn't she mention him like, once

[edgy nebula]

yeah im exaggerating

in hindsight though i did think there were more mentions of him

[dreamy onyx]

i mean we don't know how much time she spent with the weavers and how much she spent at the palace

[stray fog]

Herrah wouldn't leave her with the Weavers, once she became a dreamer

Because she didn't want the Weavers imposing their expectations on hornet

[dreamy onyx]

yeah that's probably why PK is mentioned more

she just had more time with him and thus more things to say

she doesn't seem all too interested in the weavers all things considered

[craggy smelt]

that's why she sent her to live with the bees
"Keep her away from her crazy aunts."

[candid blade]

My one gripe with silksong is how hornet just… barely mentions the events/hollow knight as a whole

[craggy smelt]

they had to keep whether it was a sequel or a prequel secret until the very end

[stray fog]

What insight could the fayforn be giving to Weavers?

[craggy smelt]

how lovely its fur feels

[stray fog]

She mentions them when it is relevant (like talking about lace's life)

[candid blade]

Still hate how she doesnt mention anything related to it bar lace/red memory
She couldve said something about how moss home resembles greenpath or something

[stray fog]

True

[stray fog]

Maybe they asked the fayforn for assistance in fighting gms?

[craggy smelt]

there's a few references to hallownest here and there - she mentions that Pharloom exceeded them in metalwork

[stray fog]

There's a weavenest there after all

[candid blade]

Wish there was more though

[craggy smelt]

they are very nice

I can nod sagely after reading something

'I understood that on multiple levels'

[vague onyx]

Hi

[viscid ridge]

Because its not all that significant to the current game. She does drop hints here and there about her past to the people she talks to, but they wouldn't know the context for any of it, so she doesn't mention it a lot.

I doubt these people would know who the radiance, or the pale king, or the hollow knight, or any other significant figure is

Hornet is supposed to be a princess, but in pharloom the people don't know that. In Hallownest they might have revered her, but in Pharloom they have no idea who she even is 🤣

[shell magnet]

They still know she is a weaver

[viscid ridge]

Some characters yes, like seamstress, widow, the shamans etc, but im talking about most of the normal bugs 👍

[marble oasis]

I think it would get a bit old to have her go "A Stalking Devout from the hit game Hollow Knight (2017) could make short work of these Pharlids" in every hunters journal entry

These plants... they make my path so green *looks at camera*

[twin dragon]

insight

knowledge

[twin dragon]

Man, the nest i was born in... its so deep...

"Oh, lace, did you know that i murdered 94544 vessels until one kicked my ass in the hit prequel to silksong: hollow knight (2017)?"

[twin dragon]

that's your only gripe?

damn

[stray fog]

Yeah that's what Im asking

What insight would they be getting from the fayforn

[twin dragon]

Tales of the old or smt

[craggy smelt]

only Mister Mushroom knows now...

[stray fog]

Even fayforn knows mr mushroom's language

But The knight doesn't know

[craggy smelt]

they had no educated upbringing

didn't learn spoorish

[icy token]

Would Weaversong unlock weaver doors without Needolin

If Ghost ever get to Pharloom that would be a way to open similar to how Spore Shroom translates

[dire lynx]

no

[viscid ridge]

I actually think its the other way around

[viscid ridge]

I think theres something important about the fayforn we haven't learned of yet. The feather themes and imagery can be found all across the citidels structures and the ui. Something about the fayforn is important, i just dont know what yet

[craggy smelt]

it's probably the most important thing in the game

in both games

[viscid ridge]

Might just be the weavers liked her, but idk why

[viscid ridge]

How do you mean?

[craggy smelt]

like, the most important thing in all the series

[viscid ridge]

🤨

[craggy smelt]

maybe...

weaversilk sheets and fayfloof mattress makes the comfiest sleeps

goodnight everybody

[stray fog]

Could be

[undone glacier]

Coud make sense

[wet walrus]

Question: are hk characters actually bug sized?
I saw someone taking an official statement from team cherry that Hornet can throw her needle from 30 yards away and calculated knights size is at least 70 cm though pixel scaling the bridge between fungal wastes and city of tears

[undone glacier]

i don't now ether that's a good question

[wet walrus]

I really doubt it considering nobody takes pixelscaling seriously nowadays

But it got me thinking

[undone glacier]

Yea your probably right

[craggy smelt]

they're actually colossal in size

our whole world is in one of their backyards

(not really)

we don't have any scale for them, but

I like to believe

that they are very small

[pliant meadow]

Well I like to think they're massive 😤

[viscid ridge]

Its left ambiguous, they could be normal sized, but also bug sized.

We could compare their size to the ancient bug fossils we see, but those ancient bugs could just as much be considered large in their universe instead of being normal sized

[heavy gyro]

We see small bugs so theyre probably human sized

[stray fog]

The 30 yards statement is ancient

The post with that statement contains other things which are not true even for the earliest release of hk

[dire lynx]

the same true of the all endings statement, both are meaningless to current day hk really

[low oracle]

Nah they all be Kaijus.

The only human sized one is John Hollow Knight.

[stray fog]

Who knows if real biology applies like this to hk

[low oracle]

It definitely doesn't. My source is the fact that sapient bugs grow beyond their stupid companions.

[bright bison]

dç

[twin dragon]

Species can cross breed but we don't know if those cross breeds are fertile

[pearl grail]

Odd question in act 3 gms presence isnt rly there so bugs of the citadel that arnt dead or void threaded but js there and become agressive and attack dose that mean that they were never haunted?

[twin dragon]

They're still haunted

[pearl grail]

Aight

Was a good question

[twin dragon]

It's very obvious twin

[pearl grail]

First time in act 3 leme be

[shy sorrel]

Why does the giant flee attack us and whys it so big anyways?

[dire lynx]

selective breeding by the memorium

[shy sorrel]

Ok

[wet walrus]

Proof?

Oh

[heavy gyro]

Theres also the small ants that carry rosaries

[thin vapor]

The rosaries are apparently the same size as real ones and the scissors of that one Greymoor enemy are to scale with them, best idea of size we have.

Don't remember where I saw that so don't ask for a source

[covert night]

is there any other retcons than shamans in silksong?

[pale narwhal]

is that really a retcon?
did they even change anything abiut shamans in hk or is it jist new stuff

[marble smelt]

What’s an explanation for herra looking so different to other weavers. Apart from TC not having tha plotting fully planned at the time of hollow knights release

[pale narwhal]

some people headcanon her as being ascended from a drapemite in stead of a pharlid
i think someone suggested diet

[covert night]

in hollow knight shamans say they don't interact with the void that much and in silksong they do and they act like hornet supposed to know that

they technically can give birth but it's a painful process. we know that hornet and kidnapped part weavers in cradle exist

[pale narwhal]

he says they never thought to look in that place when you show him the abyss shriek
but the descending dark is a void spell that you get from his fourth aunt so clearly they did use void

and the shade soul is also gotten from a shaman corpse
so thats 2 void spells gotten from his relatives

[covert night]

yeah but they also say they don't know much about void

what they do and what they say always seems to conflict with each other or i'm missing something idk

[pale narwhal]

and the chapel maid says that Pharlooms abyss remains unseen even to their family
so both games they use void while avoiding the abyss

[pale narwhal]

conflict how?

[limpid summit]

They aren’t directly from them it’s sort of unique

[covert night]

2 different snail shaman dialogues from hollow knight

Listening after acquiring Shade Soul:
What's this? My vengeful gift has warped within you. You've twisted it into something... else.
Ohohohoh! I knew it. My friend! You're a marvel. Your essence has melded with the spell.
**You must have found a powerful source to transform it in such a unique, expressive way.
**

Listening after acquiring Abyss Shriek:
That scream? Ooohh, distorted in such a way.. It's not within the skills of us snails to do such a thing.
Wherever you draw this new power from, it's not a place my kind ever thought to look.

it's the knight who transforms spells into void, not shamans

[limpid summit]

Yes exactly that

The shamans are like power sources the knight uses

Just like the soul vessels in the abyss

They aren’t doing anything with void it’s all TK

Weaver children are rare

So uh

The canonical answer is either:
-theres not actually that many little weavers, spawn points nonwithstanding
-little weavers are actually just like deephunters dressed up as weavers to show devotion to Herrah

But the real answer is that they made HK without that idea of weaver birth so it didn’t affect their creative process

[pale narwhal]

after getting descending dark:
My friend. My friend. There's another quality about you yet. You didn't perchance visit my fourth aunt?
She makes her home beside that Crystal Mount. Leaves quite an impression on those that seek her out. Were I not bound here, I'd love to visit myself.

so clearly even if somehow the snail in city of tears isnt responsible for the void spell the fourth aunt was
seeing as the shaman immediately revognised it as her work

[limpid summit]

Well he senses the quality not the spell

You absorbed her into you that’s what he senses

[spark valve]

he doesn't actually recognize the spell at all, when he recognizes spells it's pretty explicit

[ember river]

Keep in mind a long long time has passed between the two games

And that whether or not shamans talk with the snails of other kingdoms is unknown

[ember river]

My personal headcanon is that little weavers were another weaver experiment to more easily reproduce, maybe like trying to uplift deepnest spiders with their own silk, or trying to create them in a similar fashion as the Weaversong

There's nothing really backing this up though, it's just something I thought up

[limpid summit]

Don’t let anyone tell you your little weaver related headcanons are completely baseless

Cause there’s nothing we have

It’s like Herrah’s body type

[flat heart]

ohhh

[blissful harbor]

i think little weavers being deep hunter-weaver hybrids makes the msot sense

or just that they are some kind of deep hunter variant

[zinc fox]

Does Herrah have the title of beast cause she is different from other weavers?
Other weavers are like globes with tiny legs, while Herrah looks whole different from them
Only similarity is 6 eyes pattern

[proven vector]

I think it was from her husband

[tawdry flare]

Result of a Retcon

[mighty kraken]

is there lore for every area in the game

and if so, is there a video explaining it

[proven vector]

Theres a mossbag video about hk lore

[mighty kraken]

what abt for ss

SK*

[proven vector]

Idk there aren’t really any good ones

[mighty kraken]

oh ok

[proven vector]

But u can definitely still find one

[flat heart]

mossbag made another btw

[whole holly]

do you guys think that Pharloom Bay might have Old Heart?

[viscid ridge]

No, but compared to HK, a lot of the areas are very straightforward.

[viscid ridge]

I doubt it, maybe we'll get something like a lifeblood heart, but i doubt we'll fight the true source of lifeblood

[river lily]

No

[whole holly]

me too for some reason

[viscid ridge]

Maybe interact with it in some way, but most likely not defeat it

[whole holly]

memorium has pharloom bay creatures

[viscid ridge]

Yeah

[whole holly]

they seem like nautilus to me at least

[whole holly]

it doesn't give old heart potential for species

[viscid ridge]

My guess is most of the new characters and enemies will be mollusks and crab themed.

[flat heart]

wdym

[wind zenith]

lifeblood beastfly

[viscid ridge]

What i find interesting is that a majority of the fossils we see in the world are ammonite and dickensonia fossils, meaning the majority of the world were probably under water for a period of time long ago.

[whole holly]

i don't think we will see crabs

[flat heart]

would that explain the coral forest concept

and the jellyfish

[whole holly]

ammonites are similar to nautilus too, snails are type of molluscs like gastropods, nautilus may be different

[viscid ridge]

I mean we already know we are getting barnacles, so i dont think crabs are that far out of the question

[whole holly]

oh yeah barnacles i refereed to them as nautilus for some reason, okay so crabs were kind of already introduced i don't think will focus on it as much, most likely omit it altogether

[viscid ridge]

Honestly idk, its implied the coral forest is the oldest kingdom, but i dont think it overlaps with this specific period of time.

[viscid ridge]

Yeah thats why i mentioned it

[whole holly]

maybe Snail Shamans will be expanded upon, i want to see one in Pharloom Bay

[viscid ridge]

And i might be mistaken but im pretty sure ammonites and nautilus both fall under the category of mollusks

[whole holly]

cephalopods yea

[viscid ridge]

I wouldn't be surprised if we see a sea snail themed shaman. We do see some of the shells in the chapel look like sea snail shells. But i doubt we will get one there considering i think the other shamans would have mentioned them if there was one in the bay.

[whole holly]

you never know, Snail Shamans while hiding never mention or talk about one another

[flat heart]

btw what exactly is a snail shaman again?

they're tied to the void

and soul

last I remember at least

[viscid ridge]

As i understand it, Shamans are jack of all trades. They are associated with every type of magic system we see in the world of HK. They are not higher beings, but they are much more in the know than normal bugs.

They say they have a fixation with the void, but im pretty sure its because its the most powerful of the different powers they use.

So they are essentially wizards that specialize in every type of magic, or power that they can get their hands on.

They also have massive family trees

[flat heart]

are they made of void?

they appear to be at least related to it

[viscid ridge]

They are not

[whole holly]

they mostly rely on soul, and their access to essence and void is through the soul, in my opinion

i wonder if city of steel has Shaman staked to service

[viscid ridge]

As said, they seem to have a fixation with all manner of powers, (soul, silk, void, dreams etc) but i think they fixate on void the most, because its incredibly powerful compared to the rest

[whole holly]

maybe like they have weaver staked to service(possibly) and confessors jiji and vassal sula

[viscid ridge]

Idk we know almost nothing about the steal city

[whole holly]

silk is soul, void consumes soul and dream is realm between body and soul so it makes sense

also Confessor Jiji and Vassal sula seem like Similar species to Snail Shamans, like maybe they are also molluscs?

[viscid ridge]

Yeah but im talking about how they know how to harness pure soul, aswell as know how to create runes using silk. They are the same, but the way they are utilized are different

[whole holly]

Runes aren't only made from Silk though, when do they make runes from Silk?

[viscid ridge]

I doubt it, the vassals look more like tarantulas than snails

[blissful harbor]

what makes you think they’re similar?

the vassals look a lot more bug like

[viscid ridge]

The trap for act 3

[whole holly]

that's possibly from Snare Setter

[whole holly]

oh true

[whole holly]

Jiji's hat/shell

[viscid ridge]

That makes Garmond a snail shaman 🤣

[whole holly]

i mean i don't think they are snail shaman i though they were molluscs, geez

[viscid ridge]

Im just joking dw

[blissful harbor]

i get where you’re coming from, but it’s pretty distinctly a hat
snail shamans all have some kind of spiral design to their shell, as opposed to the bug shell design of jijis jst

[whole holly]

do you think jiji's hat is her biological part of her

[blissful harbor]

i don’t think there is a way to tell either way

[whole holly]

they seem unique, are they supposed to be weevils?

their limbs would be explained

[viscid ridge]

Im of the opinion they are spider like bugs(maybe tarantulas), because they seem to 6 legs and 2 arms

[whole holly]

we technically don't know if sula and jij are same species

[viscid ridge]

But in game they are probably some generic looking bug

[viscid ridge]

They share the same characteristics i think they are the same

[whole holly]

we don't see if sula has shell on top of her head or antennae

they could be centipedes?

[viscid ridge]

Eh i can see it, but centipedes have a very distinct look in game

[whole holly]

who knows maybe tarantulas to, but reason why i doubt them being tarantulas is that there was cut Tarantula NPC in game hornet mistakes for a Weaver

[whole holly]

which ones? do we see them?

[blissful harbor]

her antenna stick out of the cloth wdym

[viscid ridge]

Like do you mean what centipedes we see in game?

[whole holly]

forgot, yeah they look like devil horns

[whole holly]

yeah

[blissful harbor]

the vault keepers, and the relic dude come to mind

[whole holly]

oh yeah

they could be Horseshoe Crabs, which aren't really crabs

[viscid ridge]

Thats also a good point i forgot about them

[whole holly]

that's true, a very defined body

i really hope we see another Snail Shaman

[viscid ridge]

Most likely a gaint corpse or something

[whole holly]

actual live one, i would prefer

[blissful harbor]

not just a shaman, i hope sea of sorrows elaborates on why mollusks are so connected to soul

[viscid ridge]

Id feel wed know if there was another living shaman. A courpse would be preferred. Compared to HK we lack a lot of ominous corpses

[blissful harbor]

you got the snail shamans, slyphean slugs, and salubra’s blessing (which comes from a slug)
it’s very interesting

[viscid ridge]

I honestly still feel the blessing is just gameplay

[whole holly]

are they?

[whole holly]

imagine we see hybrid of Slug and Snail in world of Hollow Knight and sets up something important

i hope Sylphean Slugs intelligent species

[viscid ridge]

I doubt they are

[whole holly]

they are probably treated like grubs

[viscid ridge]

They just sound to me like an animal with a very useful bile sac

[whole holly]

true

we see Plasmium Gland, Pale Oil also connected to a Glad and so on

[viscid ridge]

My best guess is its just some sort of flying sea slug

[whole holly]

interesting

to be honest i don't think Salubra lorewise is connected to Soul, Salubra's Blessing is gameplay, however here's what game says: A boon bestowed by Charm Lover Salubra.

Those blessed are followed by beauty and love.

[viscid ridge]

Either something like this winged slug, but i think team cherry would rather pick something like that latter. Instead of a slug that instead of swims through the ocean, flys through the air

[dire lynx]

you missed the best slug (she also happens to be dream related and not soul)

[whole holly]

unlike Sylphsong whch says: Essence of a being merged within. Silk will be restored when resting at a bench.

[viscid ridge]

Nuu

[whole holly]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMLS9APyDBw

[marble oasis]

“Dream related and not Soul”
Does she know?

[muted lantern]

Which hollow knight character would be the best gamer

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet and Kratt

[lone folio]

Zote or fearful pilgrim

[muted lantern]

kratt exclusively uses reddit and discord. i doubt he games much

[proven vector]

Nah the pale kings intelligence would make him the best gamer

[sinful nimbus]

name a discord user who doesn't play games

[muted lantern]

league of legends doesn't count as a game

[sinful nimbus]

True but league of legends players count as gamers (derogatory)

[muted lantern]

actually scratch that kratt is a valorant player (worse)

[muted lantern]

What games would hornet even play

[potent patio]

I feel like Sherma plays cozy games like Stardew

[tawdry flare]

woah. Hey. Let’s not be rash

[muted lantern]

Hornet would either play factorio or counterstrike

[spark valve]

[muted lantern]

Sherma would love super noahs ark 3d

[lone folio]

What would Trobbio play?

Only thing that comes to my mind is Minecraft

[muted lantern]

Visual novels

[lone folio]

Oh that's what those are called

[potent patio]

I feel like widow would play horror games

[lone folio]

The knight would play Tetris but with no mind to think he would ragequit every 2 minutes

[muted lantern]

The knight would play hollow knight i think

[potent patio]

Nah I feel like it would get the kill screen actually

[lone folio]

Radiance would play infection.inc

[potent patio]

Lol

I feel like 12lth architect would play Celeste

[lone folio]

What would pale king play?

[potent patio]

Cult of the lamb?

[lone folio]

4d chess maybe?

[potent patio]

For some reason the first game that came to mind was cookie clicker

Idfk why

[lone folio]

I feel like quirrel would play outer wilds

[lone folio]

That's probably what Grimm would play

[potent patio]

Yeaaaah

I feel like nuu would play sunbnautica

Because finding monsters

[lone folio]

Ahh yes

[potent patio]

Also Pokémon snap

[lone folio]

Maybe Nuu would play slime rancher?

[potent patio]

Yes! Although for some reason I don’t think she would be very good at it

I think the conductors would play pikmin

And elderbug would play pong

[random aspen]

solitaire

[craggy smelt]

oof

[nocturne verge]

Is the Fayforn a higher being?

[silver lintel]

yes it can fly really high

[muted lantern]

Unlikely

but not impossible

[nocturne verge]

https://giphy.com/gifs/jax-tadc-the-amazing-digital-circus-DdiAodvxjVAkPcUgzj

[silver lintel]

I know this has probably been asked a thousand times, but how come First Sinner's cage is gilded? If she was locked up by either GMS or the Weavers then it should have been before the era of the citadel's ornate golden architecture? But the silk runes on the cage imply the weavers did it? Did the ornate architecture of the citadel begin during the weavers' reign? I'd always assumed it was after the conductor's took over

[dire lynx]

conductors plated/painted over old weaver stuff with gold

its most obvious in the cradle where the paint is flaking away

[viscid ridge]

You have to remember that almost everything in Pharloom seems to be made of a type of bronze metal. This is probably made by the forge daugters. I think the cage was stored away in the time when the weavers were still ruling over the citidel. The gilding of the citidel did probably come after the weavers left, but i don't think the cage is guilded, i just think its made of the same incredibly prevalent metal.

[silver lintel]

oooh, never noticed that!

[silver lintel]

okay word that makes sense

[muted lantern]

Its likely more iron coated in brass or bronze. I believe the bells the pilgrims carry are described to be made of iron

[dire lynx]

considering almost all the metal we know was used by the weavers was silver in colour that would make sense

maybe the brass coating was originally used by the weavers just on bells and then the conductors used that to slowly turn the citadel to its current exorbitant state

maybe not even that, the bell in atla is also silver!

[muted lantern]

The idea that the conductors are just so obsessed with brass and need to make everything brass like sad beige moms is so funny to me

[viscid ridge]

Might just be made out of craftmetal

[dire lynx]

i just mean the colour, not the specific metal

its a silver coloured metal instead of bronze/brass/gold colour

[viscid ridge]

Yeah but im just proposing what similar metal it could be made of

[muted lantern]

We know iron exists in world, craftmetal seems rarer but that could be bc the weavers used it all

or maybe they are the same thing

[dire lynx]

considering how much had to have been used for all the weavenests and whiteward it would make sense

[muted lantern]

The conductors make everything brass for their tiktok aesthetic posts.

[viscid ridge]

To be fair, a majority of all the weavenests seem to be made of stone, while only like rinds and pipes were probably made of metal

[muted lantern]

it's interesting that most of the silk siphon wasnt gilded.... why is that?

only the container in the center was

[dire lynx]

maybe they were scared to mess something up?

[muted lantern]

maybe its probably delicate tech

[viscid ridge]

The whiteward is implied to be the oldest part if the citidel, and the syphon was probably originally used by the weavers

[muted lantern]

ye but the conductors added gilding to most old weaver stuff like the bells

[viscid ridge]

Probably wouldve interfered with its functionality

[muted lantern]

Mizello really had no idea what he was doing did he

Mizello injecting the life force of an angry goddess directly into his bloodstream (this is a very safe procedure)

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-more-gif-21856591

[dire lynx]

tons of metal in the weavenests, especially the floor

[muted lantern]

Hmm, the really shiny metal might be craftmetal, like the ones used for that pointy thing in the first image

looks like a dif metal no?

[viscid ridge]

Yeah so i was right, mostly pipes andthat one weird thing that is at the workbenches

[viscid ridge]

Yeah i mentioned that i only thought the rinds of the weavenests are made of metal, its probably made of stone underneath

[dire lynx]

there are broken versions of the lamp clankers with varying levels of shine, not sure what might cause the change, but one looks almost the same as the floor

[muted lantern]

"lamp clankers"

lol

[dire lynx]

i dont remember the name :[

[muted lantern]

servitor i think

[dire lynx]

ur right, checked and its servitor ignim

[muted lantern]

i wonder what the meaning of the second part is

the big guy has a different name, servitor boran i think?

[dire lynx]

ignim is some latin which means light or smt

[muted lantern]

makes sense

can't find anything for boran

[vague onyx]

Hi

[craggy smelt]

it means 'lasor baom'

(not really)

[dire lynx]

probably just pulling from "bore" like to dig through

bore
/bɔː/
verb
1.
make (a hole) in something with a tool or by digging.

[muted lantern]

I do love the lazor beam clanker

[dire lynx]

yes, the sounds she makes are very fun

[craggy smelt]

i could see that
using its beam to dig out weavenest tunnels

oh yeah, it says right there

Broken construct built by Weavers past, able to fire a focused beam of silklight to carve halls and chambers through ice and bone.

[dire lynx]

exactly ^^

[craggy smelt]

their needolin dialogue is neat as well

[muted lantern]

...keep... IMPULSELOST...
...peak... ascent...
...REFORMINSTINCT...
...ENEMY...
...obey... LOSTORHIDDEN...
...WAKE... guard... WAKE...

Do these guys have fucking error messages?

Do weavers know how to code???

[viscid ridge]

Its canon

Silk can be used for programming

[muted lantern]

Silkgpt

[dire lynx]

this is on the little guys, but still
"brought to life through Silk runes threaded within."

[craggy smelt]

rune coding

wonder what was used to create the mining golems in Hallownest

[viscid ridge]

Runes are essentially coding for soul

[viscid ridge]

Those i think are powered by the crystals

I dont think any soul or the sort was used for their creation

[muted lantern]

I wonder if commands are written into the cogworks similarly like how the kingsmoulds are imprinted with runic commands.

[craggy smelt]

crystals do weird things with Soul (deep focus)

however they work, the mining golems do think, like the servitors

it's neat

[craggy smelt]

cogworks are probably more like the servitors - silk runes threaded within
maybe something to do with the silkfly within

the kingsmoulds seem to rely on the Void's impressionability instead to instill them with imperatives

[muted lantern]

It makes sense right? the reason the cogworks are so robotic despite their needolin dialogue showing a conciousness is that they have silk runes in them that act as like programming. Dictating what they do. The comparison i was making was that runes could be used to imprint a commandment onto a bug like they did with the molds that say "serve" and stuff in hallownest. Maybe the reason second sentinel is more sentient is that their "code" is less strict as they were an attempt at replicating life.

[viscid ridge]

Hallownest creating robots: Lets just use this cute pink crystal

Pharloom creating robots: Souls of the damned

[muted lantern]

I mean they also made robots out of the black goops that kills you

[viscid ridge]

I doubt they have runes inside them (unless its stated somewhere) it seems like their inside is just filled with raw silk and a silkfly.

[viscid ridge]

Atleast the Pale King didn't kill his subjects to create his goop robots

Hallownest 1
Pharloom 0

[craggy smelt]

how I saw the kingsmoulds working was - physical mould for rough shape, soul/runes for how that shape behaves (telling it what parts are legs, where the eyes manifest, etc.) and the Essence was to dictate behavior (i.e. SERVE)
since Silk has the ability to interact with thoughts and minds, there might be an Essence component to it as well, hence it being capable of 'programming' the thoughts of constructs

interesting thought - do the Servitors release silkflies when destroyed? Or do they have thoughts without any element of a formerly living bug attached?

[muted lantern]

Servitors have silk runes threaded into them which is stated, what im saying is since cogworks are similar robotic guys that seem programmed maybe the consiousness of the fly is restricted by similar silk runes (since we know the choir can use runes so it makes sense)

[viscid ridge]

I doubt it, just seems like cogs and wheels mixed with silk, not necessarily that they have silk runes inside them. I also doubt the architect would create a new rune for every robot she makes. Theres not really anything special about silkflies that needs magic to keep them inside, a physical container would do just as much.

[muted lantern]

i wonder if they could stitch commands into the silkflies, i wonder what dictates their "code" i guess. why do they know to do differnet processes and duties while their cognition is clearly limited.

[viscid ridge]

If i remember the chorus in the underworks drops a silkfly bottle after you bind the crest, so i think inside the robots its similar, but smaller

[viscid ridge]

Probably the rotors and cogs. I imagine the fly just acts as a battery

[muted lantern]

idk how cogs could dictate it's programming. thats what allow it to function but what makes it know to do its specific task ig

[viscid ridge]

Exactly, i dont think the robots have physical code, just a bunch of wheels and cogs that allows them to do their specific job

[muted lantern]

what im talking about is in their needolin dialogue, their mind, they seem to have like commands built in, mantras built into their very mind. i feel like some level of programming or brainwashing is done to them

[lone folio]

Maybe songs are used to give them tasks? Clearly music can activate their machinery like the choruses in twelve architects area so if a citadel bug knew the right song maybe he could give them a task to complete

[lone folio]

I don't think wheels and cogs can carry enough information for that to be possible

They can clearly complete allt of different tasks and the limited amount of cogs in one robot couldn't be able to account for everything

[dire lynx]

i support this take

[muted lantern]

It would be exceedingly cruel to have a song telling you what to do in your head constantly after giving you a lobotomy. this is also perfectly in line with the citadel.

[dire lynx]

it could even be what the pilgrims are being taught in the vaults, ones close to aging out are sent to learn special "sacred" songs

[muted lantern]

repeating mantras causing them to self brainwash would be so fucked up

[craggy smelt]

oh man, I'm reminded again of the mining golems dream nail dialogue:

DIG...DIG...CRUSH...DIG...LIFT...DIG...LIFT...DIG...
CRUSH...OBEY...DIG...LIFT...CRUSH...DROP...
DROP...DIG...LIFT...DIG...CRUSH...OBEY...DIG...

[muted lantern]

Them having to be reminded to obey makes me wonder if those were sentient somehow

[muted lantern]

Also who tf built those robots?? It doesn't seem to be hallownests level of tech???

[craggy smelt]

the mining operation was Hallownest era, made at the kingdom's height

the kingdom's most advanced tech wasn't that widespread, but there were trams, and Monomon's weird alchemical computer set-up, etc.

I do wonder how advanced Hallownest might have become if it hadn't fallen - whether it might have reached Pharloom's level (or further)

we don't see the actual engineers of Hallownest's golems, but one institution that Hallownest had that the Citadel seemed to lack was dedicated mages

the Soul Sanctum and its study of pure sorcery doesn't really have an analog with the Citadel

the Citadel might've had superior technology, while Hallownest had better magic

[muted lantern]

Ig just robots didn't seem like a hallownest thing

[craggy smelt]

that might've been the first time the technology was used

they died out before it could be developed further

(very sad for hollorobo)

[craggy smelt]

I don't think we know where he's from originally
Sheo suggests that he's seen the Five Great Knights in their prime though, which might mean Sly and his students are either native or have been in the region for ages

Mighty Hegemol was always my favourite. What a towering figure he was, though surprisingly soft spoken for one so large.

[icy token]

Sly and Yarnaby looks like the same type of fly

While the Slab flies were quite different

[whole holly]

do you guys think that Weaversong could have been in Silksong?

it was supposed to be blue tool, whatever this was

[whole holly]

Create weaverlings

[icy token]

Open weaver doors without needolin

[whole holly]

True

[hexed kindle]

In its gameplay its ment to be a deviation

aswell

due to tools and etc

yeah

The silkshot for example

Im praying the city of steel gets its own game

cool

nahhhhh

we need something new gameplay wise and it would as you said contradict the lore

👀

the thing is the hollow knight is too damn big i feel like

yh

id rather we either get lace or just a new protagonist or maybe the pure vessel

Im hoping its a mix of steampunk and like alien feeling

cool parrells ig

fr

i have a whole theory on the steel city

hold up

I think this the start of it

the reply is the end of it

Most of it is kinda crackhead theory territory tho

one thing i feel like is gurranteed is that steel city will have void related stuff i feel like

[pale narwhal]

as much as id like to explore the Sandsea Waste but if we're right about it being the desert between kingdoms i don't think it would be well suited to a 2d platformer

[whole holly]

does anyone know why Bilewater, Wormways, Wisp Thicket isn't affected by Act 3 Void Threads?

[river lily]

Theyre not affected with the Gms curse

[viscid ridge]

It being the wastes between kindgdoms makes a lot of sense honestly

[viscid ridge]

Bilewater and wisp thicket are effected by the void. The wormways doesn't have it, cause i assume team cherry wanted to make us focus on the lifeblood, or a lore reason we will learn later

[whole holly]

i asked why?

[whole holly]

i don't see void threads in wisp thicket and bilewater

[river lily]

Yes, the balck threads are aj extension of Gms curse

[viscid ridge]

They definitely are there i think you're just missing them

[river lily]

The void threads are Gms silk mixed with the void

The enemies that werent effacted with the curse wont get voided

[whole holly]

i mean why aren't they affected by GMS curse, since we see Burning Bugs and Stilktin being affected by haunting so why no void threads?

[river lily]

Stikin arent affected by the curse

[whole holly]

even Gromling, Burning Bug and Stilkin were affected by curse

[river lily]

Nor are burning bugs

Stikin attack you because they think youre from the citadel, which they despise

[viscid ridge]

Everywhere except the plasmified wormways is effected

[river lily]

Burning bugs have their own religion

[whole holly]

yes they are, we see them being strung by silk

[viscid ridge]

Burning bugs are haunted...

[river lily]

Youre playing the needolin

Your connecting them

[whole holly]

but i mean why don't we visibly see void threads

[viscid ridge]

Are you serious

[river lily]

Why would the stilkin be haunted if they hate the citadel they litterally section of themselves

[whole holly]

Needolin affects existing haunted bugs, not connect them in some way

[viscid ridge]

I think its just a stylistic choice. Like the void has taken all the light out of the silk

[viscid ridge]

You know bugs cant choose to be haunted right? It happens as a result of silk getting stuck inside bugs organs?

[whole holly]

Haunting is universal in Pharloom, it affect almost everyone regardless of what side they are on, it is both environmental and deliberate silk threads being used to control bugs

[whole holly]

i think that is is alleviated in some way, since Wisps burn Silk and Muckmaggots eat Silk

[viscid ridge]

I personally think that those are just gameplay quirks

Cause if it really worked that way for other bugs, Wisp thicket and bilewater wouldn't hsve become haunted

[whole holly]

i mean it still makes sense for Bilewater to be Haunted regardless because Smog is continuously poisoning them, Wisp Thicket burning silk is slow-enough process to not stop them from being haunted but GMS isn't controlling them per say

[jovial lily]

what do you think is gonna change in sea of sorrow

[thin wind]

sand of rakack

[jovial lily]

it would be cool if that was revitalized somehow

[thin wind]

maybe have a bonus area next to it

[jovial lily]

yeah

i wonder how many new areas there will be and how it will work

within the original game

[thin wind]

i want it have the place to go in dream world in the knight of the edge where is should be have some fih

[thin wind]

hard to tell

[whole holly]

area next to Bilewater will appear like Pharloom Bay

[jovial lily]

that would be so cool i hope they include that

theyre gonna like include scrapped silksong concepts right?

[whole holly]

yeah

[jovial lily]

because silksong was so big a lot of concepts had to get pushed to a dlc

[tawdry flare]

it’s basically confirmed, there are in-game traces of Pharloom Bay and the area was cut about a month from release

[limpid summit]

Their hatred and fervor made them more susceptible

It’s another soul master parallel

Originally he had fairly good intentions but giving into his inhibitions twisted his desire into immortality and made him infected

[finite wind]

then why are they not possesed

[limpid summit]

The stilkin?

[finite wind]

and if they are, why are they not working for the citadel

yeah

[limpid summit]

Well Groal is

They aren’t working for the citadel because the haunting doesn’t automatically make you do that

The Skarr aren’t

[jovial lily]

woah that soon?

imagine they had so much fun developing sea of sorrow they make it its own game

[finite wind]

I don't think he is? he is doing nothing for the citadel, he's even traping citadel bugs

[finite wind]

what does it make you do then

[limpid summit]

The haunted is unlike infection in that sense

[jovial lily]

i doubt that would actually happen but i wonder how in depth the dlc is gonna be

[limpid summit]

It connects you to the hive mind but it just makes you insane

“Driving them to madness and discord”

Bugs do what they did in life unless GMS is specifically puppeteering them

[finite wind]

then if the stilkin are possessed, why does GMS not control them

she could be using them for deep docks or sth else instead of them being isolated in some random place nobody cares about

[jovial lily]

bc she dosent care about the work

weavers and conductors needed workers but GMS didnt implement those systems

[near jasper]

Also how husks can be possesed so quickly, they're already haunted Just dead

[nova tusk]

GMS controls them using silk

They’re probably completely limp but gms controls all body parts
I’m actually not sure tho

[near jasper]

Yk the crawfather and aviarium is probably the explanation for the memorium having 3 living workers who are all hiding

[frosty gate]

You think the Craws attacked the Aviarium?

[near jasper]

Maybe

[viscid ridge]

I doubt it, the craws in the aviarium are all dead in their cages, so i doubt the crawfather came to liberate them

[near jasper]

Why the hell is a flea a bird by the aviarium logic btw?

[lavish turtle]

yo
anyone got a good place to start reading the lore?

[limpid summit]

Playing the game uncovering things for yourself at your own pace is always best

But mossbag’s “mostly complete lore of hollow knight” is fairly good

And the wiki is great for little things though it’s pretty fact based

So here is also good for questions or theories or whatev

[lavish turtle]

my biggest question is how does it connect to the first game? i remember hearing before the game launch that its a prequel but the ending scene showed thk's shade

[limpid summit]

The game is a sequel

[near jasper]

Its not a prequel

Thats just Straight up misinformation

[limpid summit]

People thought it might have been a prequel but just because they didn’t say anything about it directly earlier

There’s references to the vessels from game 1 and things Hornet saw during the infection

Like soul master

[lavish turtle]

ah thanks
then which ending is canon in the first game
that would eliminate the "sealed siblings"

[limpid summit]

It’s left up in the air for now between dream no more and embrace the void

[edgy nebula]

dream no more or embrace the void

[near jasper]

Any ending radience dies id say

[limpid summit]

Both are p much the same in one TK is slightly better at controlling void and THK is still in its shell

And vice versa for dnm

[lavish turtle]

any other connections?

[near jasper]

The red memory

[limpid summit]

Uh let’s see

all of red memory + multiple Herrah mentions, Vespa mentions, a subtle WL parallel with Greyroot
Jiji mention + other steel stuff
Soul Master mention
Vessel mentions
Snail shaman mention
Lifeblood mentions
Nosk parallel

[blissful harbor]

“subtle”

[edgy nebula]

where was the soul master mention

or are you just referring to groal

[near jasper]

Groal entry iirc

[edgy nebula]

ah right

[limpid summit]

True

Address me

Bro Groal entry proves Hornet is a fucking BUM

The Mihawk of HK

She wants Hallownest’s past to die but she won’t go and kill the giant warlord by her mom or the genocider

She would rather pick off fodder

[lavish turtle]

lol

[near jasper]

Its weird how she talks about soul users when silk is just soul cheese

[covert night]

why is herrah's story a retcon now?

[tawdry flare]

Wdym?

She was originally planned to not be a Weaver. You can determine this by… uhh, looking at her

[covert night]

i remember people talking about herrah retcon but didnt know why

[viscid ridge]

Its not really a retcon, but some elements like her design may have been changed. We cant really call it a retcon if we knew almost nothing about her beforehand 😅

[covert night]

isn't it would be a retcon if rewriting contradicted the story? in herrah's case it seems like they just added new context

[viscid ridge]

Exactly

[haughty lynx]

Guys i have a theory, a bad one but a theory, sherma is the son of godseeker or a godseeker

ik ik im insane

[viscid ridge]

Why

[haughty lynx]

well sherma can use song to halt the haunting right

and sherma looks a lil like god seeker i think

i thinksed that sherma was a failed godseeker

and lost the goldy divine color and alat

[lone folio]

That has nothing to do with anything god seekers

[haughty lynx]

ik😭

i thought i was onto smthin...

[covert night]

karmelita resisted the haunting by singing too

[haughty lynx]

guys where is pharloom

like from HN

[viscid ridge]

Who knows

[haughty lynx]

ive tried mapping it out before...

it doesnt relly match up

[haughty lynx]

the surface would have to change drastically in height

IM SORRY😭

[lone folio]

Like

😭

[haughty lynx]

ok but like theres like a bunch of civiliaztions between pharloom and HN

[lone folio]

That's a very nice question, we have no clue

[haughty lynx]

so they are a good distance apart

[lone folio]

Based on what?

[haughty lynx]

well

[lone folio]

There are other civilizations but none are stated to be between the two

[haughty lynx]

nu uh

in the cradle

[lone folio]

Mhm

[haughty lynx]

the spider cages

[rustic junco]

I disagree

[lone folio]

Yeah?

[haughty lynx]

SEE

the map bro

the surface changes drastically

[rustic junco]

to all you beach dwellers there's a concept called a MOUNTAIN

[haughty lynx]

breuh

[viscid ridge]

We dont know anything about where any kingdom is for certain. We see some possible locations yea, but nothing tels about which is which

[rustic junco]

hell, a beach dweller should know what a mountain is, mountains can be coastal too

[haughty lynx]

but the abyss and surface gng

"beach dweller"

bro

[covert night]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ag3dOpVbe-s this video has some good points

[haughty lynx]

listen

the abyss and surface dont match up

[viscid ridge]

This video bruh...

[rustic junco]

dont have to be

[haughty lynx]

the surface might not

but the abyss?

[rustic junco]

relies on one very big IF which doesn't look at all the same

[covert night]

yea it's all theory

we have no idea how close hn and pharloom are to each other

[haughty lynx]

its always a theory if theres not concrete evidence

[rustic junco]

... the cave looks nothing alike

[viscid ridge]

You are assuming that the surface and the top of hallownest are the same, it might just be that the top of hallownest is in a giant cavern

[rustic junco]

how does the abyss not match?

[haughty lynx]

https://www.google.com/imgres?q=silksong map&imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fassets-prd.ignimgs.com%2F2025%2F09%2F09%2Fsilkmap-vs-hollowmap-1757424043958.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ign.com%2Farticles%2Fhollow-knight-silksong-interactive-map&docid=Lg5sIfjIJzac0M&tbnid=SSclo_kRVjnCrM&vet=12ahUKEwi94KWo1_CSAxVyrokEHc5hCwEQnPAOegQIGBAB..i&w=3000&h=1500&hcb=2&ved=2ahUKEwi94KWo1_CSAxVyrokEHc5hCwEQnPAOegQIGBAB

breuh

[lone folio]

I mean the video shows it and it looks eerily similar

[haughty lynx]

the image thingy dontint work

[rustic junco]

what about the spikes, the cave length, the non existant top ledge?

[viscid ridge]

Id personally not take IGNs word on anything 💀

[rustic junco]

wait the source is IGN?

[viscid ridge]

Just a case of asset reuse, i dont think its the same case.

[lone folio]

Like almost too similar which is odd since the other parts of the godseeker memory aren't the same 🤷‍♂️

[lone folio]

Could be

[rustic junco]

it could just be an entirely different area

[covert night]

i like his take on lifeblood cocoon locations

[viscid ridge]

A lot of assets gets reused in silksong, so i doubt the cave is any different

[rustic junco]

there's literal spikes to the right in silksong, unless the godseeker has spike PTSD it cant be the same cave

[lone folio]

Probably yeah

[covert night]

caves can be.. similar

it's just rocks

[rustic junco]

I saw the video and was confused by how many people were just blindly agreeing to it

like I like the concept and the effort but the cave is a flimsy piece of evidence

[viscid ridge]

You know im arguing that its not the same cave right?

[rustic junco]

im trying to add onto it and yes

[lone folio]

Yeah true

[covert night]

cave theory is a stretch true

his take on lifeblood cocoon locations is solid imo

[lone folio]

Rest of the video is pretty good

[rustic junco]

Mossbag once used "looks similair" = "same type of bug" to compare second sentinel with grindle

[viscid ridge]

mossbag and the other reliable lore channels not uploading as regularly is having a massive effect. But hes busy making his game so its understandable

[rustic junco]

nice

[viscid ridge]

But you can even feel his mind isn't fully on making his videos, so he also makes som goober theories in his own silksong videos💀

Like that Pale King farsight tangent 😅

[rustic junco]

exactly, tho the worse ones are in the trailer ones

[covert night]

his silksong lore video wasn't that good

it seemed rushed

[lone folio]

And now we have the wave of unreliable lore channels that spread misinformation

[viscid ridge]

I think he should have made smaller lore videos first before commiting to an all in one lore video, like he did with HK

[rustic junco]

ehhhh its not shit always its just kinda relying on very flimsy arguments

[viscid ridge]

It was a bit overly ambitious

[covert night]

yeah and he'll probably do a second full lore video once all the dlcs are out

[viscid ridge]

Exactly, i dont want to call it slop, but it feels like theory slop

[rustic junco]

what kind of silk lore have yall been seeing

[haughty lynx]

jjk ah

[rustic junco]

i only find basically "lore regurgitated back out in the same way it was written" and "Lenin let the radiance out of the cage" type of videos

[craggy smelt]

I liked Ditlev's recent vid about trying to work out where kingdoms are relative to one-another

I don't know that I agreed with anything, but it was a lot of fun to watch still

[rustic junco]

we're talking about it rn

it's good, just relies on basically wet toilet tissue

[craggy smelt]

yeah it does

[viscid ridge]

Eh it was all fun and good but realistically nothing he said is able to backed up by evidence

But its just a theory video so anything goes

[lone folio]

There was one video about fayforn and somehow they started going all in on it being related to the radiance

[craggy smelt]

oh no

[rustic junco]

the map interpretation is fine and the wind point is interesting

[craggy smelt]

all fluff is radforn

[lone folio]

It was quite the sad sight

[craggy smelt]

or no, Faydiance

got em

[lone folio]

Because apparently he thought that fayforn is OBVIOUSLY a silk moth

[keen vector]

has gt done a theory on skong

yet

[viscid ridge]

Who?

[rustic junco]

game theory

[keen vector]

game theory

[lone folio]

Some Jeremy guy

[rustic junco]

matpat but without matpat

[viscid ridge]

They arent touching hollow knight ever again

[rustic junco]

already did

i think

[covert night]

'hornet is gms'

[lone folio]

Oh wait game theory did the same thing??

[covert night]

jk

[viscid ridge]

Oh? Is it any good?

[rustic junco]

never watched it but it looks quite.... exquisite

[keen vector]

ty

[viscid ridge]

So i imagine its about gameplay and not lore?

[jovial lily]

it eas

[rustic junco]

i have no clue but it looks just like its trying too hard

ironically

[lone folio]

In pretty sure that's the one that's actually pretty alright with some religion stuff

[jovial lily]

game theory sucks

[viscid ridge]

Ive never really been a game theory guy

I think its for a different audience

Like mascot horror

[rustic junco]

to be fair matpat left main channel a long time ago now

[lone folio]

Atleast it think it was some kind of religion stuff

[jovial lily]

https://tenor.com/view/toy-bonnie-getting-attacked-by-withered-bonnie-toy-bonnie-bonnie-fnaf-fnaf-2-gif-13082154113473068863

[viscid ridge]

Isn't he running for president or something now?

[rustic junco]

nah hes becoming a senator

or some shit

congressman

honestly good for him

[keen vector]

https://tenor.com/view/toy-bonnie-getting-attacked-by-withered-bonnie-toy-bonnie-bonnie-fnaf-fnaf-2-gif-13082154113473068863

[viscid ridge]

Imagine your senitor saying that the knight is the reincarnation of the pale king 💀

[jovial lily]

the server is broken

[rustic junco]

its not that deep imo that theory was just something marketable

[lone folio]

Actually no I think it was about comparing real world hirearchies to hollow knights and then using that to predict what kind of kingdom the next game will take place in (as in what kind of hirearchy the kingdom will have), game theory loves using real world history and stuff in their theories which is pretty cool but sometimes not as accurate.

[viscid ridge]

A really cool detail that Team Cherry explained is that Pharloom is divided into a hell, purgatory and heaven structure.

Which i think made sense looking back at it

Its weird we didn't see it beforehand

[rustic junco]

Heaven being the community, purgatory being the main menu screen and hell being the rest of the game

[craggy smelt]

huh

I guess I can see that, yeah

[rustic junco]

I have a theory. What if trobbio wrote the entire game

think about it

it's an act by act game

he has 2 self inserts out of nowhere

[covert night]

or just class division

you can read as both i guess

[rustic junco]

we dont choose, trobbio choses for us

to kill the green prince

[viscid ridge]

Trobbio is a bug, and all of pharloom has bugs.... it all makes sense

[rustic junco]

Also he breaks the 4th wall with the "woe woe woe" line

during his needolin dialogue

[covert night]

does trobbio have a lore

[craggy smelt]

I do think Trobbio would write the events of Silksong into a performance
casting himself as Hornet

[rustic junco]

which others dont do

[rustic junco]

kojima does it again!

[craggy smelt]

he has 2 lores and a secret unlockable 3rd lore

[rustic junco]

• Trobbio doesnt look like anything else in the game

[viscid ridge]

Yeah but im refering to how team cherry said they were designing lower pharloom with bones and lava as hell, middle pharloom from greymoor to blasted steps as purgatory, and the citidel as heaven

[rustic junco]

.... and putrified ducts as heaven yes

well, god's gotta shit somewhere

[viscid ridge]

Just the basic order of progression, not 1 to 1 obviously

[rustic junco]

That's your message?

GOD DAMNIT

i thought i was gonna read a great piece of literature

also, what is a silksong

[viscid ridge]

If Kojima made hollow knight, we would have riviting characters like Knight man, Hollow man, King man, Silk girl and much much more

Watcher man, Teacher man, and Spider man

[rustic junco]

Nah nah

Eyeman

Jelly and Scary

[viscid ridge]

Mr Wyrm

[rustic junco]

Nosk would def still exist

Same for Skynx

But thats besides the point. What' the next lore to topic about?

[viscid ridge]

Talk about the timeline of when the pharloom pillars were built again

[rustic junco]

Pillars?

What pillars

[near jasper]

The weaver spires?

[rustic junco]

i mean clearly trobbio

[viscid ridge]

The pillars found all across pharloom

[rustic junco]

why are they called blasted steps when there's literally 0 fucking steps

the entrance is literally cut off

[near jasper]

I ate it

[viscid ridge]

Like these

Everywhere

[rustic junco]

also is it really necessary for people in wheelchairs to go through sinners road to enter heaven?

[near jasper]

Thats just for preventing cave ins and roads

[lone folio]

Because the steps got blasted with silkshots

Obviously

[viscid ridge]

Yeah but who built them is the question. Youd think the citidel built them, but we can see it predates it

[dire lynx]

wheelchair people arent welcome in heaven

[viscid ridge]

Their found all over karak and verdania, which they realistically shouldn't be in

[near jasper]

Its pretty basic architecturing to build pillars to hold stuff up I dont think it matters that much

[rustic junco]

or is it because they have phantom pain?

OMG

[viscid ridge]

Yeah, but thats not the point of the question...

[rustic junco]

WAIT I MAKES SENSE

[near jasper]

Probably the weavers during initial citadel construction

Gods seem heavy to hold

[viscid ridge]

I doubt it, i initially thought the pillars were to keep the citidel stable, but it predates the citidel entirely. Its found all across verdania, aswell as sands of karak we can even see the karake built their architecture on top of them, meaning its older than the oldest civilization in pharloom.

I speculate ancient civ, but it probably would have been mentioned if they ruled pharloom at all. So its probably some unknown civilization of sorts. Its a really interesting subject

And im sure we'll get more information about it in the future

[nocturne verge]

If grand mother silk was asleep how did she order the coir to get the weevers back to pharloom

[limpid summit]

The haunting was her stirring

She was awake enough to haunt

[viscid ridge]

The haunting

[craggy smelt]

a god can do a lot even when they're asleep

[covert night]

eepy mother silk

[graceful grail]

If First sinner can Teleport using silk, Why Cant GMS??

[limpid summit]

Lmao

No idea

You could say teleportation is some kind of spell but Rad does it

Maybe it’s easier in dreams

God GMS sucks

[near jasper]

To not break the haunted by disconnecting them for a bit

[graceful grail]

If GMS could teleport she could have avoided the Snare. Like Rad does at the end of phase 1

[craggy smelt]

too sleeeepy~!

[tawdry flare]

maybe it's like really hard to teleport all of that hair without losing it

[sinful nimbus]

God of Silk but I would NEVER EVER cast a silk spell

[edgy nebula]

true actually her hair is connected to living beings so she might not be able to teleport without losing control

[spark valve]

except when she does get teleported a very long distance and the connection is not broken

[edgy nebula]

damnit forgot about the aurafarming cutscene

[spark valve]

oh to live in your world

[near jasper]

Theory

Gms wasnt trying to break any of the rubble during her fight after the fake out shes just fat and breaking stuff from weight

[cosmic bridge]

I...
...okay I think that is a great theory

[blissful harbor]

i think GMS is genuinely just still half asleep
which is why she’s so less magical

maybe half asleep isn’t the right word but yk, like she’s still in the middle of waking up and doesn’t have her full arsenal

[random aspen]

how she sleep that long and not have messy hair

theres probably an obvious answer but why didnt the weavers in hallownest ask pale king for help in defeating gms

[proven vector]

Why would the pale king help them

[limpid summit]

Well

[random aspen]

for silk idk

[limpid summit]

I mean maybe they did

[random aspen]

silk is probably valuable asf

[limpid summit]

But they wanted a Weaver messiah to kill GMS

Hornet was their chance that’s why they got all excited

But when the infection hit all that was dashed

I don’t think PK would have left his kingdom to kill GMS especially because he and the spiders/weavers weren’t allies at the time

And they only allied after Hornet was born anyway

[dire lynx]

theres no way the weavers could set their pride and prejudice aside to ask PK for help lol

[limpid summit]

Also true

Dude PV could have done it

Random question

We aren’t given any suggestion that all the first gen Weavers aren’t about the same age

So why did the Pharloom Weavers fade before the Hallownest Weavers did

Unless the conductor era began around the time the second wave of infection started

[edgy nebula]

pharloom weavers probably used up more of their silk for plans to get rid of gms

[tiny steeple]

She don't have hair

[limpid summit]

Fair

God they must have used hella silk

Look at all the WP silk

[glacial warren]

See this is the difference between the two Kingdoms. At least in Hallownest the Pale King and White Lady made some effort at diplomacy with other Gods in their immediate proximity or even just the neighboring tribes of Bugs.

Meanwhile the Grand Mother just could not care less what became of her land’s neighbors, her ‘children’ the Weavers, or her actual children, so long as it meant she had people to basically be her slaves.

[craggy smelt]

just the fact that PK and WL were able to rule together shows them as pretty unusual amongst pale beings

mask maker suggests they don't typically get along

[glacial warren]

Ye most Gods don’t. But even still those two were willing to offer olive branches to their neighbors. The Pale King did eventually forge a truce with the Mantises, having them keep the carnivorous predators of Deepnest from leaking into the Fungal Wastes, and judging by the Silk around the Palace, he at some point made peace with the Weavers and even established a Stag and Tram Station in Deepnest.

Though I am unsure if him making peace with the Weavers happened before his deal with Herrah or because of his deal with Herrah.

Plus the White Lady even had a sort of decent coexistence with Unn. The big slug put up a warning sign for her spawn to be cautious of the White Lady due to her Gardens setting up shop below Greenpath, but she more or less just warns the Mosskin to be cautious since the White Lady is similar to Unn, but does not share her dream.

[craggy smelt]

hard to say, but I think it's plausible that his Void experiments started before he settled on the plan with Dreamers
if so, he would have been trading with the Weavers for the silk in his workshop before

[glacial warren]

Possibly. It is also notable that due to what we learned in Silksong, Herrah had at least some manner of correspondence with Vespa and the Hive, possibly might have even been allies at one point.

[craggy smelt]

I can see that
contact certainly

[glacial warren]

Actually come to think of it. The bottom-most Tram essentially connects Deepnest, the White Palace, and the Hive. This might explain Hornet’s Needle’s unique make.

Since once her Needle is refined to its truest form, it is revealed to be a Pale Hivesteel Needle.

So it kind of represents a union of the three big factions who had a hand in raising her in Hallownest.

[craggy smelt]

yeah, I think the needle is hive craftsmenship (or craftsbugship) adapted for weaver use
somewhat like Hive stingers, crossed with weaver weapons (First Sinner has needle-like blades that are shorter than Hornet's)

[dire lynx]

WL stole that land from unn

[glacial warren]

Ye. My guess is Herrah requested it to be a Needle so as it’d resemble a traditional Weaver weapon, and it was made via a combination of Hivesteel from Vespa’s land, and Pale Ore from the King’s end. Essentially a truly unique hybrid weapon made by three factions pitching in.

[craggy smelt]

I don't know about the pale ore - I think the palesteel needle's paleness comes from all the pale oil it gets soaked in

I don't really think Hallownest officially got involved with Hornet until post-Hive

when she got that pale fit for the Court

[dense ridge]

The Pale King was certainly involved in her creation

[craggy smelt]

if you know what I mean

but like, other than that

[glacial warren]

I mean it’d make sense they pitched in on some level. The King ensured the Pure Vessel had a Nail of the highest caliber constructed for its use, so it makes sense he’d assist in the making of one for his daughter, especially since she was meant to be Herrah’s condition to Dream.

Hell Hereah herself probably would’ve requested the assist, so that between the metals of his and Vespa’s lands, she would ensure her daughter had a weapon that’d never fail her.

[viscid ridge]

Hornets needles seemes to be made of pale ore, but its the hive banding that seemes to make it special to the bees

[craggy smelt]

I don't get the sense that PK was that interested in being involved in her life
she was part of a transaction for the vessel plan

and it seems Herrah handed Hornet off to the bees, not to her father

so they can't have been that close

[viscid ridge]

Like instead of the ancient nail design we see on hk and the knights nails, the needles banding is made with hexagons which seems to be exclusive to the hive

[glacial warren]

True but still Herrah would have wanted the best weapon Bugkind could produce for her semi-immortal daughter once she Dreamed.

[viscid ridge]

Or their way of forging weapons

[dire lynx]

Long sewing tool, uniquely balanced for combat. The highly refined blade reveals its hivesteel banding.

IMO this was the original state of Hornets needle

[glacial warren]

Not quite.

[dire lynx]

the pale version is thanks to all the oil we drizzle on it

[viscid ridge]

From hornets dialogue its kost likely the 3rd state of the needle was how it originally looked

[glacial warren]

I don’t think it attains Pale status due to the Oil itself, but rather, the Oil further revealing the Needle’s truest form.

Since Pale Oil has a similar property as Pale Ore, in that when infused with a weapon it allows the weapon to not only be improved, but achieve a sort of primal cleansing to ascend into its truest state or form.

[viscid ridge]

Exactly, it just reveals the weapons true form, kinda like how the nail in hk is also said to reveal its true form after upgrading it all the way

[glacial warren]

Indeed. Pale Ore and Oil share that weird, transcendent quality of basically making a weapon a s c e n d into a higher state of purity and achieve its truest make and form if enough of either is applied.

[viscid ridge]

"This is fine service, pinmaster. It has been a long age since I have seen my needle such. I had not remembered the finesse of its forging."

[dire lynx]

none of that dialogue actually shows that to be the original state, simply that her needle has been shit for agers

[viscid ridge]

Better evidence for this being how it originally looked than the hivesteel needle thats all im saying

[dire lynx]

why would the hivesteel pattern appear after what is basically just a magic cleaning if it wasnt the original state

[craggy smelt]

yeah, like it must have been forged with its hivesteel banding evident

and then ages of wear concealed it until it was restored

[dire lynx]

pretty much

[viscid ridge]

Remember the needle is sharpened, so as it gets upgraded the inner layers gets revealed

And the banding is just the trademark way the hive made their weapons

[dire lynx]

then why would the handle change as well, its not sharpening by reducing the blade

[viscid ridge]

How do you think sharpening works? 😅

[tawdry flare]

IMO you're wrong

[dire lynx]

magical oil that just makes the stuff sharper

Wait! Yes. Seek not others, but an oil, fabled and fine. With it the Citadel once brought gleaming edge and point to its pins.
Though the Citadel's pinmasters are long past, some small store of that miraculous elixir may remain within its halls.
Were even a meagre drop pilfered, and gifted upon Plinney, your blade could shine brighter still...

[dire lynx]

10/10 counterargument

[frosty gate]

They got you good with that one

[glacial warren]

Probably beefy but still a far cry from a Pure weapon.

Considering the Pure Nail hits significantly harder than the Pale Hivesteel Needle.

Ye it’s tough but not like. In the elevated caliber of mythology the Pure Nail sits at.

The Pure Nail was a weapon of myth, to the extent the giant Smith out in Kingdom’s Edge spent its entire lifespan toiling to try and create it, to no avail. Its failed efforts resulted in the creation of Quick Slash.

[whole holly]

guys it current conversation made me wonder about Steel, only naturally available metals we see are Pale ore and Craftmetal, Steel irl is an alloy do you guys think that Steel in Hollow Knight is alloy of some kind?

[viscid ridge]

Probably

[whole holly]

i kind of think that Steel might be Craftmetal and Pale Ore derivative

[near jasper]

Do you think the burning bugs even know of the haunting

[sturdy hedge]

Why is Hornet so obsessed with red... is it because the other weavers in deepnest wore it? (They wear red in the red memory)

[thin vapor]

It's a colour of importance in Weaver culture maybe? Remember Herrah wears it in the flashback so it could be a tie to her or Deepnest royalty

Best idea I've got

[viscid ridge]

Its her signature drip obviously

[sturdy hedge]

none of the weavers in Pharloom wear it though. Widow uses a beige color as a replacement for her mask and First Sinner uses a white dress

[viscid ridge]

But also on a serious note, Red probably just has some association with royalty in hallownest. Even the rich part of the city of tears wears a lot of red

[viscid ridge]

I think its just exclusive to the weavers in hallownest, they probably developed their own cultures and customs after settling in other kingdoms

[sturdy hedge]

Now that I think of it, that's really the only time we see red in Hallownest. The white palace uses primairly white and grey (even the saws)

[sturdy hedge]

I feel like that might be it, yeah. Hornet saw the other weavers wearing red and decided she also wanted to do it

[glacial warren]

Ye it was simply their culture. Only reason we don’t see Herrah in red by the time of Hollow Knight is since she’s donned her Dreamer robe, albeit it clearly was a bit small for her.

[graceful grail]

The nails seem to primarily rely on Crushing and Smashing their shell, whereas the Needle seems to Pierce, Cut, Slice and Tear rather than Smush.

[ember river]

Some nails, like PV's and Quirrel's, seemed more refined, and nails definetely had an edge

[viscid ridge]

Theres actually a distinction, Pharloom needles, like we see with FS and GMS are piercing or javelin like weapons, while Hornets needle is a fusion between Hallownest nails and Pharloom needles. This gives her weapon way more range in combat, because she can slash like the nails, and pierce like the needles, which matches up with the description of "uniquely balanced for combat"

[viscid ridge]

https://youtube.com/shorts/lelpFiKXuGk?si=BZNCpfB5qu5FZglU

[edgy nebula]

she's red cause she's evil

[frosty gate]

Bobbi, the Karak are red

Are they evil?

[edgy nebula]

khann is literally a tyrant

yes

[frosty gate]

I was gonna say the Skarr but they are Racist so

[edgy nebula]

except for corrcrust karakas

theyre orange so they cool

[frosty gate]

Yeah your point is proven

[frosty gate]

Orange means Cool Evil

Like Vector

[edgy nebula]

precisely

in hindsight most red bugs in silksong are evil

hollow knight too

[viscid ridge]

Red is used incredibly often in pharloom

[gentle aspen]

skarr?

[edgy nebula]

least evil out of the red bugs but theyre racist

[foggy fractal]

what are some not evil ones

[edgy nebula]

they also trap stray souls in jars and gather around them like campfires

[edgy nebula]

the wild more animalistic karak bugs arent necessarily evil

oh right bell eater too, it's another evil red bug

[viscid ridge]

Tbf i doubt anyone except Hornet knows their the souls of bugs

[edgy nebula]

actually? i take that back it doesnt seem evil

[long tapir]

I dont think they're racist, the mottled ones are just not haunted so I assume they started killing em post haunting

[frosty gate]

Why are there no mottled ants during the flashback then

[twin dragon]

Again with the crackpot theories

[royal meteor]

i am the real john silksong

that is canon

[viscid ridge]

I think personally its more likely that pale steel is a form of soul, but id rather wait for team cherry to elaborate on it hopefully

[rocky coyote]

non friendly reminder that LORE ACCURATE HORNET ISNT A TAS
hornet states that she "borne (pharloom's) barbs and blades"
which means SHE GOT HIT
which means you can stop commenting "lore accurate hornet" on TAS videos
NO hornet did NOT canonically go through all of pharloom without getting hit and playing like a speedrunner
YES hornet didnt die once

about the knight tho...

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet needs to beat LL hitless to not break the flower

[rocky coyote]

no the flower is extra fragile when its held by the knight because its (the knight) made of void

[sinful nimbus]

Proof

TK's shell isn't made of void it never makes contact with the shade

[rocky coyote]

makes more sense then hornet beating lost lace without losing the flower
also they would have said something to indicate that the flower breaks on damage

[sinful nimbus]

Ze'mer does say that

[rocky coyote]

also hornet's flower is stronger the ze'mer's flower because its from her memories

[sinful nimbus]

Sure but its still described as fragile

I don't actually think she would need to fight LL hitless since there are unique animations for the everbloom overcoming your silk getting eaten by void but this is a weird oversight

[rocky coyote]

ig
the couriers pack thingies are also fragile but they can survive like 4 hits

also hornet is taller and she has places to store the flower
the knight cant hide it or smth

[sturdy hedge]

The flower is weakened by the void, the knight is made of void so its weak in his presence. Hornet is not so it only weakens when she directly enters the abyss, which is why is breaks.

[rocky coyote]

THATS WHAT IM SAYING

[sinful nimbus]

That doesn't line up with Ze'mer's dialogue

These explanations are all really ad hoc yknow what I mean

[sturdy hedge]

It’s also just overall weaker in Hallownest

[sinful nimbus]

It can probably take more hits yes

[whole holly]

you just call anything crackpot theory

[rocky coyote]

its weird to me that the same people who say lore accurate hornet is a TAS say respawning is canon

[sinful nimbus]

I blame Miyazaki

[sturdy hedge]

How? Unless I’m missing something- I really wasn’t paying much attention to her dialogue 😭

[sinful nimbus]

A sacred flower is the offering. It is a rare, delicate object. One of a kind. You must cherish it, must act as though it were your own heart.
If you were to get hurt whilst carrying it, or did to attempt ride those jolting transit beasts, it would forever be destroyed.

She doesn't really mention void at all she's just describing its properties as extremely fragile