sk-lore

[marble oasis]

But Ogrim can’t be super super long lived on par with an Eternal bug and like, WL

[muted lantern]

I mean i don't see why one of the god kings royal knights couldn't be as long lived as a random noblewoman.

And also this goes back to the original point of if its been longer than some common bugs lifetimes since the fall hornets mates she outlived certainly could have been during this time.

we also don't know how long the kingdom thrived after the sealing before the infection returned

[midnight reef]

if I had to guess, those mates were before she took her role guarding Hallownest as we find her, and before Hallownest collapsed

I assume there was a long time between the Hollow Knight being sealed, and the kingdom crumbling

Elderbug was born quite awhile after the kingdom crumbled, and had never seen the Stag Station open

[plain gazelle]

i think silksong is more conscious in general about bugs having a good reason to be long lived if they are so

in hk you just get to be as old as hallownest if you're lore important

[midnight reef]

or a backer

or just based as fuck (Dung Defender)

[sinful nimbus]

PK can alter GMS's biology as she is made of silk (soul)

He could probably do it but wouldn't because Grand Mother Silk is a terrible mom

[viscid ridge]

I think it feels that way because we sont have a literal timeline of events. Id say a lot of the ages of bugs make sense, but also id imagine that bugs lifespans vary between species

Id image some of the minor characters probably died. Elder bug definitely, maybe sly, i still think Cornifer and iselda are kicking, dung defender might be dead, Last stag, maybe salubra, i think the nailmasters are still alive, Nailsmith, Bretta and Lemm is probably still alive

But this is based on lets say if the time passed between games being like maybe 10 years or so.

Theres a high possibility hundreds of years have passed between games, and literally everyone is dead

[muted lantern]

I don't see why myla would be alive, we see her get infected

[viscid ridge]

Yeah mb i didt mean Myla i ment Bretta

[muted lantern]

oh fair enough yeah shes probably chill

She left hallownest didn't she? it would be cool if an older bretta showed up in pharloom

[viscid ridge]

I doubt she would survive the trip

And Hornet doesn't even know her 🤣

[pliant frost]

first she crushes on the knight next she crushes on their sister lol

[muted lantern]

Zote made it to hallownest through the wastes

I doubt pharlooms wastes are much different

What happens to cloth if she doesnt get killed by traitor lord btw? ik theres unique interections in dirtmouth if she survives

[sinful nimbus]

She rests in Dirtmouth and then leaves Hallownest to find another place to fight to the death in

[muted lantern]

I assume its rinse and repeat from there until she dies or decides to stop trying to kill herself

[rigid trellis]

Hi

[muted lantern]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/586931790208434203/1456102957283147942/Video_Project_14.gif

[marble oasis]

White Lady wasn’t great

[sinful nimbus]

White Lady is the most despicable evil character in the universe but she never really had children that were gonna be raised in a conventional way

[limpid summit]

No the most evil character is NMH

Tied with Ellina Lemm Grindle Mister Mushroom

[sinful nimbus]

HK fans explaining why TK and Brumm were justified in trying to murder NMH because it goes against nature or something

[muted lantern]

does banishing the troupe kill the nmh? i thought it just like, kicked em out of hallownest

i never did that ending so i don't recall much

[marble oasis]

It just kicks them out but if they don’t find another kingdom NMH will probably starve

[blissful harbor]

surely finding another wouldn’t be that hard

if it was truly life or death you’d think Brumm would’ve gotten more than basically jst a slap on the wrist

[marble oasis]

It had bigger fish to fry

[muted lantern]

We will find nmh frying fish in sea of sorrow

grimm has become grill and he must complete the barbeque ritual

[edgy nebula]

"Fry with me, my friend. Show me you are worthy of being a master chef."

[sinful nimbus]

Mrmm. A song that never ends... is no song at all.
he's out for blood man

but yeah NMH can probably bounce back

[muted lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/travis-scott-thatboiicheck-gunna-young-thug-hot-gif-15959855

[covert night]

it would be better writing than act 3 ngl

[muted lantern]

Grillmaster grimm wouuld be so peak

Should it be Troupmaster Grill Or Grillmaster Grimm

[marble oasis]

Only one man is the grillmaster

[limpid summit]

When grilling NMH brings on BEAST MODE

[raven condor]

I’d like to think these are the same species of skeleton

[muted lantern]

Yeah pharloom has some really interesting ancient corpses

[shy sorrel]

Are the coral tower enemies and ants related?

[edgy nebula]

no

[shy sorrel]

Why do they look so similar

[edgy nebula]

if youre referring to alitas specifically they used to be ant enemies in the game's code

otherwise it's because theyre all just red

[shy sorrel]

Oh okay

[edgy nebula]

i hate this thing

[shy sorrel]

Flash step lol

[edgy nebula]

the final one is so much better

in hindsight you can kinda see where tc cut the legs off and added the abdomen

[muted lantern]

I can't belive they cut bro in half

[marble oasis]

Is it just me or does the one on the left kind of look like a giant zaza

[muted lantern]

zaza is actually an infant god

his power is immense

[vague onyx]

hi

[frigid belfry]

probably the intention

similar thing with the northeasternmost edge of far fields with the giant bugs

[tawdry flare]

is he going to erase his memories of the mortals he knows so he doesn't have to live with the pain of their deaths

[muted lantern]

no hes going to kill everyone with laser beams

[tawdry flare]

oh

that makes him a fraud then

unless his lasers bend

[vague onyx]

hi

[pliant frost]

Are there any other known weaver children that were born as in like physical childbirth? (Not including beings like Lace and phantom since they’re made of silk) Just curious since hornet is proof children of two different species can exist in the HK universe (since weavers are an all-female species) and childbirth is said to be extremely painful for weavers but does that statement solely come from herrah’s own experience?

[tawdry flare]

uhh theres the demiweaver cages in the cradle

[pliant frost]

Demiweaver?

[tawdry flare]

weaver-in-part

same thing

bugs descended from weavers

[pliant frost]

I thought they were cages that choir disciples used to capture anything that might be impressive to catch to bring to gms

[tawdry flare]

nop

[pliant frost]

Or are they cages specifically to contain strong beings like hornet

[tawdry flare]

they're to contain 1/16, 1/8, 1/4, 1/2, etc weavers

[pliant frost]

interesting

[tawdry flare]

we never see any of them but theyre implied to be pretty strong given that all of the cages (iirc) list a bunch of bugs that were lost retrieving them

or maybe the citadel bugs are just incompetent

[pliant frost]

Ik theres eva but she was made from runes and we dont get to see her physical form if she has one at all

[vague onyx]

hi

[vague onyx]

hi

[dire lynx]

hello

[cosmic lagoon]

Hi

[cosmic lagoon]

Hi

[split path]

hi

[autumn umbra]

hi

[pale narwhal]

they could jave held other things too but the three in thecradle specifically did hold partweavers

one in quarter part, found "staked to service" under the City of Steel
one in eighth part, found dying of old age in Sandsea Waste
and another eighth part found mortally wounded in the Blackbarrens

[ionic basalt]

City of steel?

[halcyon cedar]

Hi

[fallow rose]

Seems like any bug that is an inhabitant of the city of steel is or becomes some sort of servant / slave

Have y'all seen that video on YouTube where that guy estimates the location of the different kingdoms and stuff

[stray fog]

Steel city mentioned ‼️ ‼️ ‼️

[ionic basalt]

is that official lore or fan lore xd

[stray fog]

The official lore is pretty vague rn

We can only theorize

But the "city of steel" has been mentioned in game

[mystic glen]

What your theories about it?

[finite wind]

Yes

[midnight reef]

I've seen it exists

But I think it's stupid

Like, having the godseekers homeland on the opposing side of Pharloom than Hallownest???

They were drawn to Hallownest by the Pale King, I'm certain GMS would be as big of a draw

[dreamy onyx]

are there any good videos relating to the biology of the bugs in Silksong?

[dreamy onyx]

also yeah I thought it was sick

but honestly it just makes me wonder more about the wasteland

especially since Silksong is our first look at cavernous wasteland rather than just the surface

[finite wind]

No that I know of, but if you find any tell me

[finite wind]

I don't think it's stupid

But I think since it's a subject we don't have much info on, there's a lot of speculating

And ultimately it's irrelevant since the site of each kingdom does not matter at all

[dreamy onyx]

I will

[midnight reef]

Its not a subject we have little info on, we have no info on it

[wet walrus]

The vessels created by Pale King carry similar shells like certain knights of hallownest.
Lost Kin has similar shell to watcher knights
Fully trained vessel has similar shell to mantis lords
Zote and hot springs look like the knight
These shell shapes most likely has to do with the culture of hallownest knights at least based on this

These bugs have an arrogant air about them, even after dying. Overly proud of their long horns! I enjoy snapping them off.
Though what is more important is whether Pale King after shedding his shell was a warrior or not. Considering he is a higher being meaning all of his descendants are in his image just like the Moth Tribe and Lace,

[midnight reef]

What

[crystal marsh]

?????

[fallow rose]

i dont think its stupid but i do think some parts are a bit more iffy

like what u said with godseekers and pharloom

also idk i feel like blackbarrens would be closer to hallownest since i personally think the blackbarrens is meant to be where the black wyrm is from, and if hallownest fought the black wyrm then the two locations would have to be closer than represented in the video

but i dont really have any evidence for that

[midnight reef]

we have no idea what Blackwyrm is

For one- its all one word

and for what I bet- its not a litteral Wyrm

[ember river]

Everytime the blackwyrm is mentioned as some extremely relevant thing my soul dies a little

It was a one-off mention that had less influence on the story than the Mantis lords, it was most definetely not a real wyrm

[fallow rose]

yeah of course

i still feel like team cherry were trying to hint towards the blackwyrm whatever it may be by mentioning the blackbarrens in the cradle. I'm not saying its some massive lore relevant thing, I just don't think its a coincidence the two things are similarly named

[fallow rose]

nobody is mentioning it as something extremely relevant

[ember river]

People are basing entire locations on the fact that it has "black" on its name

[fallow rose]

wdym

[tawdry flare]

That’s something Team Cherry would do tbf

[fallow rose]

^

[ember river]

I mean, the palestag has "pale" in its name and it's clearly not a pale being

While stuff like the steelhearts has been actually hinted at and has a good chance of actually being the case

I don't even think the blackwyrm is ever going to be mentioned again

[finite wind]

Nobody really cares whether the blackwrym is a real wyrm or not when talking about him

[edgy nebula]

it is a pale being

[ember river]

It's obviously not bruh

[edgy nebula]

you can be pale but not a hb

hornet is pale but not a hb

[ember river]

That's stupid

[fallow rose]

whatever the blackwyrm is i feel like the logical conclusion is team cherry was trying to draw back to it when namedropping this new civilisation which is the blackbarren. I don't think it will be majorly lore relevant, like the sandsea wastes are most likely irrelevant, unless they perhaps go into it more in a hollow knight DLC to do with the knights or smt

they could have made any other civilisation name

[ember river]

They're used interchangeably throughout the entire narrative, Hornet's pale in the sense that she's a direct descendant from one, she has a "pale" aspect within her to word it in some way

[tawdry flare]

My understanding is that “Pale Being” implies Higher Being. Pale non-Higher Beings exist, but they’re not called “Pale Beings”, they’re just called pale

[ember river]

The palestag is just a glowing bug that seems to have very limited control over grass

[finite wind]

I don't think they would randomly name the palestag like that if being pale was just used because of its color

There's clearly STH else going on

[ember river]

Higher being is used exactly once in silksong

Every other instance, Pale being is used to refer to them

[ember river]

Black's one of the most prevalent colours, why are people so obstinently trying to establish definitive relations between two one-off lines based on the mention of an extremely common colour?

Like sure, they could be related, but we have absolutely no way of telling

[crystal marsh]

incorrect because Hornet is a pale being however she's not a higher being

[ember river]

Hornet's paleness is used to refer to the aspect she inherited from the PK, unless I'm forgetting something

When she calls GMS her kin or whatever it's because she has a good portion of her nature

Even if Hornet was a pale being through and through and we were to assume there can be non-HB pale beings the palestag is still pitifully weak in comparison to the only example we have of those

Ass Jim's stronger than the fraudstag

[tawdry flare]

well,

[fallow rose]

I feel like this is a silly argument team cherry often connect themes and ideas with similar words, colours. Also for hallownest to have gone with war with the blackwyrm it isn't unfeasible to assume some sort of other civilisation behind that many have thought this for a while. Which is also why people have also connected the blackwyrm to the blackbarrens after team cherry mentioned it in the cradle.

And of course there's no way of telling nobody claims that there is evidence since the black barrens or the blackywrm aren't directly relevant to the games

[ember river]

We don't even know if the blackwyrm is a thing, a place, a treasure, etc.
We only know there was a "battle of the blackwyrm" that involved the Five Great Knights

[crystal marsh]

we have had this topic before

[twin dragon]

palestag might aswell not be a real thing

[twin dragon]

Because every single hb mentioned in silksong is a pale being

[devout gale]

Shouldn't it be real since green prince and his husband killed it

[twin dragon]

They met hunting for it

Not that they like

actually killed it

[devout gale]

Yeah but that means it was real

Hornet fights a memory of it

[unkempt quail]

Hello everyone! The Hollow Knight Text Database has been updated with the text changes from the recent patches. Additionally, all of the cut text from Hollow Knight and Silksong has been added to the database. Remember that cut content was either withheld or removed deliberately, so while it can be useful, it shouldn't be taken as explicit canon.

Finally, the app will now let you know when any future updates are available so you won't have to check manually. The new version of the app can be found here: https://github.com/jdvannest/HollowKnightTextDatabase

Happy Lore Hunting!

[limpid summit]

Not exactly

“Myth made real in memory”

It’s fairly ambiguous

[eternal timber]

Facts

[sudden imp]

magnetite brooch is made of this stuff btw :

[blissful harbor]

the implication i got is the stay was real
it just wasn’t as magical as the memory makes it out to be

it’s a memory, ofc Green Prince would remember the hunt thst secured him his crown as being amazing against a magical pale beast

i think in actuality, it was a normal albino stag

but with paleness being associated with soul and just special things in general, he remembers it as being this amazing thing

[twilit rune]

So if GMS made the weavers right

did she create Herrah

and so does that mean

Hornet and Lace are technically related

[limpid summit]

I mean yeah but not in an actual Lace is Hornet’s aunt sort of thing

GMS elevated the Weavers and they saw her as their mother

But she wasn’t biologically their mother

[twilit rune]

Yeah I guess

Also, do we know why Herrah was able to reproduce but other weavers can't?

Do the Pale King just got some excellent swimmers or sumn

[blissful harbor]

it’s not that other weavers cant

the specific wording is just that’s it’s very difficult and painful for a weaver to have a child

but i do personally think PKs “god genes” played a part

[twilit rune]

ohh hmmm

I thought perhaps it may be something to do with Herrah looking different than the other weavers, maybe it's like a queen type thing similar to Karmalita

[blissful harbor]

also it’s interesting that hornet calls herself a victim of the curse
has she tried to have a child before?

[twilit rune]

Where does she say that again?

[blissful harbor]

in a conversation with eva

I am unique, you see. My mothers shared the curse of their tribe, to conceive a child is a painful, near impossible task.
Hornet: I know the curse well, Eva, for I am also its victim, and spawn of one who managed to overcome its limits.

[twilit rune]

ohhh yeah

[split osprey]

It does mention shes had several partners I think for the conchell duo entry, so it would be interesting if maybe the inability to reproduce help solidify her resolve

[forest star]

Hi, I tried to find an answer myself, but those few attempts of mine didn't grant me with an answer, so I hope you guys can help :3
Is there any reason to Citadel obsession with silk, cause from what I can see, there is plenty of silk being produced by GMS, why do they need all those catchers in Greymoor? And of course, what did they use it for? From what I know, at one point they created enough silkflies to power automatons, so what for?

[craggy smelt]

yeah if she knows she's a victim of the curse, it means she's tried and failed to conceive before

[craggy smelt]

Silk is said to still be asleep within her cocoon, although she's aware and can awaken/emerge at will as seen when Hornet reaches the Cradle
her cocoon is also said to be a protective form, so she might be choosing to stay within to build up her power
she may be having the Citadel gather silk to contribute to her recovery

or it's possible that it's to sustain Lace - Hornet suggests a lot of silk is necessary for that, and it may be even more than Silk herself can supply

(at least in her current state)

[limpid summit]

Probably both of these yeah^

Ballador calls her frayed so she’s definitely weakened

[forest star]

Thanks a lot, these two definitely make sense

[sturdy knot]

so i have a different interpretation, that the conductors knew about gms, and took silk from her cocoon in the cradle (the final room kinda looks like a loom), but tried to re-use it as many times as they possibly can (dreg catchers job). they where using it to extend life in white ward, making it a necessity for the citadel.

[silver tundra]

https://youtu.be/4uWvq_9p1jI?si=kkSobPZ2jH4nOM-i

Oh my god someone modded it

The true ending Boss Fight I thought was gonna happen

It’s beautiful

[covert night]

i genuinely thought this was gonna happen

[dire lynx]

this was done by the weavers (who couldve seen that coming, weavers starting and doing evil shit)

[solemn river]

The conductors controlled the citadel after the weavers left, so it would make sense for the haunting to begin because of the conductors stupid shi

[silver tundra]

Same bro

[dire lynx]

the weavers started everything, we know the haunting is recent tho

[silver tundra]

I think the only reason they didn’t do it was because it would be either too difficult to design or too difficult to balance

[dire lynx]

all the structures in the cradle are stone rather than gold/bronze which is the telltale sign of conductors

[craggy smelt]

now we're talkin'

[tame trellis]

i dont think the haunting was necessarily CAUSED by the conductors but the conductors greed and poor control of the citadel definitely heightened it

[limpid summit]

They pretty much caused it

Sort of

Weavers thought the citadel would work forever and there was no sign of her waking up during their rule

Some journal entry says the Whiteward experiments gifted GMS many minds

They should have left well enough alone post Cogwork Core

[solemn river]

Yeah thats what im saying

[marble oasis]

The citadel has been recycling silk for ages

Surgeon's orders.

"Devout has succumbed during Silk suture. Refuses to revive. Sin committed. Permit no rites.

Husk marked for cremation. Retrieve dregs."

[craggy smelt]

could just be engrained behavior then that Silk hasn't bothered to compel them to stop

gathered in efforts to use in prolonging life

[marble oasis]

yeah so i’m disagreeing with the idea that silk commanded them to do that to aid in her recovery

[vague whale]

Cremation here makes me think that Wisp Thicket could somehow be involved

[marble oasis]

How lol

There’s a crematorium in whiteward already

[vague whale]

Yes but were the burning bugs involved with the Citadel adopting crematory practices at all? Idk just thoughts

[marble oasis]

Nah

I think the citadel just cremates them to hide the bodies

[keen vector]

the blue breaking platforms and the magnetite brooch are made of the same thing right?

[marble oasis]

yea

[hybrid whale]

wsg

[stray fog]

https://youtu.be/_60HLo2BXJE

TIL that greyroot is probably the inspired by witchweeds or strepsiptera, or maybe even both

[river cargo]

Can magnetite be one of the side themes for the Sea of Sorrow DLC

i think cuz color is blue

[primal willow]

@vague whale

[wet walrus]

My fellow fact basement checkers
Thoughts on this?
https://www.tumblr.com/tonythr/758923013618008064/we-need-to-talk-about-the-pale-kings-foresight?redirect_to=%2Ftonythr%2F758923013618008064%2Fwe-need-to-talk-about-the-pale-kings-foresight&source=blog_view_login_wall

Hollow Knight, Deltarune and venting

We need to talk about the Pale King's foresight ability

Ok, I waited a very long time to make this post. The story of the Pale King is my favorite aspect of the whole narrative of Hollow Knight, and there's so much mystery surrounding it that I can't not think about it on a daily basis. There are a bunch of questions left unanswered, and I believe that most (if not all) answers were left in the game specifically so that players could interpret them the way they think is best. So I wanna see what interpretations ARE there and maybe pick one (or two. or three. or all of them. or maybe really just one.) I dunno. Anyway, the point is, this is probably gonna be a long one. Big shoutout to anyone who makes it all the way to the end.

Now, enough with the rambling. To the point.

It all starts with the mushrooms.

The part that started all this train of thought was this particular line....

Tumblr · Aug 15, 2024, 11:43 PM

[drifting whale]

Nah, the Weavers knew that GMS would eventually wake up, that's the whole reason why they left Pharloom. The Conductors made the Witheward stuff to make the bugs immortal to never stop singing, they didn't know that she would take control of them.

[drifting whale]

Well, considering that all other Wyrms went extinct, the foresight ability was probably shit

[limpid summit]

Not exactly

The weavers that left Pharloom left before GMS even went to sleep

They were like “she’s always watching and there’s no way to escape serving her”

The weavers who made the citadel were confident that it would stick around forever according to the rune harp

Last words of the Weavers.
Sisters, spiders, the burden is passed. These simple bugs shall bear it full. Never to cease. Never to silence.
We shall die, and wait, and pray, that one may come of silken strength enough to weave us free.

And the Whiteward wasn’t exactly to make bugs immortal to keep singing

They already had the cogwork core for that

They were just testing on regular bugs before they tried to make themselves immortal

[twin dragon]

Weavers didnt built the c core iirc

Or maybe it did but it would be kinda stupid as they stuck with pilgrims

[twin dragon]

The weavers wouldnt need to test with regular bugs as silk is already part of their anatomy, expending it would be like ripping their own souls out

[limpid summit]

Nah they didn’t

The sentinels were the only weaver era robots afawk

But the conductors did

It was their last edict

[twin dragon]

Servitors:

Also soul syphon is probably weaver tech

[limpid summit]

Oh I mean yeah

They had tech

Forgot about the servitors

[whole holly]

Servitors seem to be mostly made of Shell and Automated by Silk

as opposed to Cogwork Bugs who have more cogwork elements and silkflies

[twin dragon]

They look like stone

[limpid summit]

The silkflies were just to lead more pilgrims up to work

It was later architects who put them in robots

[whole holly]

true Shells look like Stone/Fossils as well though

[twin dragon]

Architects are operated by them

[twin dragon]

When they become fossilized yes no shit

[whole holly]

so why wouldn't servitors be shell-made?

most weaver tech revolves around shell, rune and silk

[twin dragon]

They really don't look like it at all

not even fossils

[limpid summit]

Twelfth is

But other architects might not have been

We know their style changes over time

Sentinels were pre conductors

[twin dragon]

We dont see any old sentinels

And yk, the 2nd sentinel being the 2nd one

theoretically

Kinda strange that it's all gilded

[limpid summit]

Yeah it is

Which is weird

[whole holly]

i mean it could be polished, looks don't prove anything

[limpid summit]

But I guess it represents like an interim period

We know all the sentinels were made by the first architect

[twin dragon]

True

[limpid summit]

Who had to have made them pre conductors

[twin dragon]

Though, the sentinel is also powered by a cogwork heart

[limpid summit]

So it went like silk animated to coghearts to silkfly animated

[twin dragon]

and has cogwork-like movements

[flat heart]

wait what the hell is a cogwork heart exactly

[limpid summit]

Probably more conventional robotics

[twin dragon]

2nd sentinel might also be powered by silkflies

[limpid summit]

Ehhh

We collect the pieces form the heart and put it in

[twin dragon]

It looks like it is

[twin dragon]

It can be a trigger

or it contains the flies

idfk

[flat heart]

aren't all of the robots in the game powered by the flies?

[twin dragon]

most of them

[limpid summit]

Servitors aren’t but most are yeah

Sentinel probably isn’t

The pieces don’t each have 1/3 of a silkfly in them

[flat heart]

void powered machines would be really cool honestly

[edgy nebula]

i kinda wonder if second sentinel has any connections to the tin man from the wizard of oz storywise with how theyre the only automaton in silksong with a heart

probably not though

[limpid summit]

That’s a nice little metaphor

I didn’t think abt that

Sherma cowardly lion Garmond scarecrow

Hornet with the red cloak

[edgy nebula]

https://tenor.com/view/peak-writing-fire-writing-fire-peak-gif-8735179823604814435

[limpid summit]

But yeah second sentinel is weird

It’s even more gilded and opulent than the actual gilded animatronics

But timeline wise it’s just not then

[edgy nebula]

yeah

[twin dragon]

apparently also created by the first architect

it could've been repurposed

[flat heart]

do we have any idea where the "land of storms" is relative to hallownest and farloom

[twin dragon]

Or decorated as a historical object

[limpid summit]

No idea

[thin vapor]

We have an idea

No clue how accurate it is but we have a possible lead

[rustic junco]

That cave literally isn't the same though.

[thin vapor]

There are differences, I'm not gonna deny that

But it's our best guess

[rustic junco]

The void civilization isn't really the same between pharloom and hallownest

in hallownest they made a shit ton of totems

[gentle aspen]

no

a distance away is all we have

[rustic junco]

in pharloom, they simped for the void and got removed from most history

[thin vapor]

We never even find one of their corpses right?

[rustic junco]

maybe weavers got rid of all void totems prior?

[rustic junco]

of void civs?

[thin vapor]

Yeah

In pharloom

[rustic junco]

i dont think so

[flat heart]

aw mann

[rustic junco]

historical weaver revisionism or different void civilization could be to blame

[thin vapor]

The weavers are the kind to remove people from history that they don't like

[pearl grail]

Bro dose forebrothers signis and gron have any lore they feel js there

[rustic junco]

Local mafia bosses of the docks

imo

[pearl grail]

Gotta agree they feel very random as bosses

[thin vapor]

If Mario and Luigi were steel mill managers

[pearl grail]

And crazy pyromaniacs

[thin vapor]

The crazy pyromaniac is my main man Trobbio

[rustic junco]

GMS's lackeys of sorts

[thin vapor]

Those two use a sensible amount of fire

[pearl grail]

They legit live near fire

[pearl grail]

Are they haunted?

[thin vapor]

They handled disciplinary action

[pearl grail]

Only forge daughter and ballow aint haunted then

[pearl grail]

I never checked their thing

[rustic junco]

GMS's local lapdogs lmao

[pearl grail]

The haunting is nothin to the infection in hollownest

[rustic junco]

Not really? Infection ones still retain some semblance of memory too

[pearl grail]

The infection kinda kills the user over time the haunting js brings em back to life

[rustic junco]

That is true

[limpid summit]

Haunted gives bugs a little more autonomy than infected

Not like a ton more but unless GMS is controlling you directly you just do what you did angrier

[pearl grail]

Has anyone else fought moorwing in act 3

[limpid summit]

Haunted bugs could probably be saved without blackthreading though

[pearl grail]

Or am i the only one

[rustic junco]

Cant you save infection ones too if you get rid of the radiance like how THK was?

[pearl grail]

Skipped the battle with the flea caravan

[thin vapor]

Just don't fight him

Go wormways or caravan

[rustic junco]

Wormways my beloved

[thin vapor]

Then ignore the room he appears in afterwards'

[pearl grail]

Yea dont fight moorwing in act 3 u will regret it

[thin vapor]

I beat him the day before the nerf

[rustic junco]

The existence of wormways elevated my silksong experience to a 11/10

[pearl grail]

Ye

[rustic junco]

Ok but anyways

as for lore wise

[pearl grail]

So dose disgraced chef liguoli

[thin vapor]

WHAT

[pearl grail]

Yea liguoli becomes void threaded in act 3

Ye

[thin vapor]

I'm just sad we lost the lilypad aspid area for the Wormways

3

Don't forget the reason he was called Ass Jim

[pearl grail]

Bro the one time i felt sad in silksong is the bellheart distruction in act 3

[rustic junco]

Garmond deserved better

[pearl grail]

I skipped his fight like a dummy

[thin vapor]

I guess we can't

[tawdry flare]

It is time to say that Coral Gorge should have been an entire memory area again

[thin vapor]

Back to lore?

[pearl grail]

Also im glad i made pilby live

[thin vapor]

You sir are a saint, well done

[rustic junco]

We dont know the gender of lugoli either btw, im pretty sure team cherry did it on purpose cause some localisations had to change their gendered word forms for neutral ones

[pearl grail]

Also i still have the statue of hornet flick the fixer made

[thin vapor]

I just want to see pre-smog Bilewater

[rustic junco]

Are Benjin and Crull in the Lugoli crew?

[tawdry flare]

There’s already a mod that restores the original look of the area I think

[rustic junco]

Not really imo cause it literally just is reskinned Blasted

[pearl grail]

Dose beating groal without loosing any health make u good

[rustic junco]

which kinda ruins it once you see the Judges

[pearl grail]

No cheese

[thin vapor]

Yeah, but just imagine those clear waters running through the entire area, thick bunches of cattails and little waterfalls

[rustic junco]

Lemme guess, architect?

What the fuck is... right? wrong? with you.

[pearl grail]

I beat the entire of act 2 and 3 with js architects crest (except groal which i did with beast crest)

[thin vapor]

Best crest for survivability

[rustic junco]

ok lets return to lore cause I think we'll get in trouble for making this into just a gameplay discussion

[pearl grail]

Beast crest is underated

[rustic junco]

If they're haunted, why aint I scared?

[thin vapor]

I don't know why but I see those two tall rooms as having had roofs collapse to make them, with each floor having been a little pool where water collected before going down further

Horrible pogo

[pearl grail]

I did the entire of bilewater with that crest

Both phantom and groal beaten with that crest

[thin vapor]

This man is as dedicated and durable as his profile pic

[rustic junco]

Why is SIlksong a hollow knight game, lore wise?

[pearl grail]

Is savage beastfly haunted

Keep in mind i got that crest in act 1 so i js did the entire of that act with beast crest

[rustic junco]

Sure. Sure. But what if there's something more to it than "franchise/universe"

Who is the hollow knight of silksong?

[pearl grail]

No magma bell beast crest last judge was ez

[rustic junco]

I have said this before, I will say it again. The vessels were a solution to destroy the radiance in a completely fudged way but it worked out in the end.

And we kill it more or less?

I mean the entire act 3 hinges on it so I think we must

and hornet as a leader.... yeah nah I dont trust that psycopath

Id say act 3 is a must to be cannon

cant envision all that content, nevermind it being the final act of a 3 act game, being optional

Still doesnt make it any less cannon

and it's an entire act you'd miss out on so i'd argue the fact its an act by itself means its part of a greater whole

Yeah but in HK you don't exactly have acts do you?

The Knight as no story attached to it

Hornet however plays entirely differently

she has a personality

she has her own descriptions

and she yaps

it's her story

Yes, and she has wants and needs.

Could Silksong just be a long story?

Like the epic of gilgamesh

The illiad of the hollow knight universe?

Like an imperfect storyteller

yes, and there's 2 trobbio fights, with 2 separate specific quills that hornet randomly can decide to pick up

coincedence?

I think NOT

Trobbio wrote the game

we're all playing his game

His kind is practically non existant too

Maybe a sort of Tiso figure but song/performance wise?

[keen vector]

could be a travelling circus like kg since most of the advertisements are temp like the signs

he could be passing by and got stuck in the citadel

but it doesn’t make sense since he isn’t strung to serve

[rustic junco]

That would infer he either convinced Phantom or was truly sinless

[keen vector]

oh it says here in the wiki

he wishes to save “pharloom from the throes of death”

he also seeks fame throughout

[thin vapor]

Trobbio is a god himself, god of the stage how could the Citadel resist someone so holy?

[keen vector]

the haunting

[rustic junco]

He isnt haunted

[thin vapor]

I know

[rustic junco]

Ok, real question, why is silksong in acts tho

[keen vector]

yuh but his audience is

[thin vapor]

Wait, how old is Trobbio, he has to be ancient by the time of the game?

[sinful nimbus]

They were asked this in an interview and iirc they said it was just to give to ground the player with a sense of progression

[ornate wyvern]

Shaw

[thin vapor]

No, but it's implied he was there since the haunting started

And we know that the haunting isn't exactly new

So he has to be pretty old in bug time

[rustic junco]

Where?

[robust wagon]

Now we're asking the real questions

[hollow zealot]

guys, i have a question of something i never quite got: what does hornet's needolin actually does? does it access the "soul" of the npc / enemy / the "soul" remants of a room?

[drifting whale]

With "The burden is passed" I'm pretty sure they're talking about the other bugs, like the Conductors, etc. All the Weavers made the Citadel, but at some point they knew that GMS will wake up so they passed the burden to the other bugs and just fled.

[rustic junco]

I'd say its like a shoddier version of a dream nail

that weavers built

[hollow zealot]

ah ok thank uyou

[rustic junco]

I am NOT the authority on it tho I could be bullshitting

[hollow zealot]

haahhah its ok, i'm still on the second playthrough (right at the beginning) and an still making sense of things

i still dont get the timeline of when the citadel was built and so on

things are getting much clearer now already

and i also hope do not miss out on hidden interactions

only yesterday i found out there was a funeral for pilby

[rustic junco]

I do recommend mossbag's video

[limpid summit]

Never to cease. Never to silence.

Yeah the burden is passed to the other bugs

It’s up to them to maintain the song

But the weavers who stayed (who had been there for a long time) were like “as long as they keep this up what can go wrong”

They also hope for a Weaver messiah to break the cycle and kill GMS

[rustic junco]

It's all a pyramid scheme

[limpid summit]

That doesn’t make sense if they’re talking about a group that literally just left

They’re hoping that one of the ones who left long ago will return

[potent blaze]

and that said messiah is hornet right?

[hollow zealot]

will check out
thank you ver ymuch

[vivid kernel]

I think the weavers were the bad guys

[limpid summit]

Yes

The two groups both wanted GMS dead but the one that stayed in Pharloom lived in the citadel for a while to keep her asleep

With the ones that fled to Hallownest thinking she was still awake and out there

So it makes sense that the citadel wasn’t mentioned in HK

[spark valve]

Also that they would go back

If they thought GMS was gonna break out they wouldn’t do that lmao

[flat heart]

what happens if u drink void juice/fluid?

[spark valve]

Depends on how much

Very small amounts probably nothing

More you die

[flat heart]

what is pale oil made of again?

where is it from?

[spark valve]

From sylphean slugs

[kindred ingot]

I mean, considering how all void attacks deal 2 damage, and that the Lovekey Bug died from just being close to The Collector, I think any amount of Void is lethal or harmful

For regular bugs, at least

[spark valve]

Demonstrably not the case since a road was built through ancient basin which has void around

It’s harmless in small quantities

[kindred ingot]

Since the Shadow Chargers and Gloomsacs seem to be able to contain some Void

[flat heart]

why is gms so damn feeble

compared to EVERY other higher being

[spark valve]

There’s not really a reason she’s just like that

[kindred ingot]

Well, that place did not end very well, since every single Royal Retainer there is as dead as the Lovekey Bug

[spark valve]

Source of silk who needs to steal it from weavers lmao

[spark valve]

Because it’s an ancient kingdom not because of the void

[kindred ingot]

She's a physical being instead of a Dream being like the other Higher Beings

[spark valve]

That’s just not true at all lmao

[flat heart]

make sense

[kindred ingot]

It's like Superman compared to the Christian God

[kindred ingot]

?

[flat heart]

she has no tie ins with dreams

[spark valve]

She has as much as WL and pk

[flat heart]

pale king made a fucking dream castle

what does gms have?

(sorry havent played that much of sk yet)

[kindred ingot]

PK managed to put his entire palace inside a dream, and WL doesn't have that many feats anyway

[spark valve]

The haunting is a mind control which is a dream related ability

[kindred ingot]

I feel like it's more of a body control

[flat heart]

not as much as pk and radiance

[flat heart]

no he's right

[kindred ingot]

Like puppet strings

[kindred ingot]

Okay

[spark valve]

It’s not just physical control

[flat heart]

if you "dream nail" (song play) any enemy in sk

they usually have the strings in their mind or smth

[kindred ingot]

Dream Nail and Needolin are two very different things

[flat heart]

they do the same shit I think

[kindred ingot]

But yeah I see your point

[spark valve]

Anyways most HBs are physical the only definite exceptions are radiance and nh

That’s not why GMS is weak

[flat heart]

home boys?

[spark valve]

She’s just like that

[spark valve]

Higher beings

[flat heart]

ah

wait is the nightmare heart physical

or dream

[spark valve]

Dream

[solemn river]

GMS is a pale being, whereas the radiance is a higher being

[flat heart]

yeah im pretty sure the dream thing is true

[spark valve]

GMS is a higher being

[flat heart]

????

[flat heart]

????

boi

[spark valve]

They are both higher beings

[kindred ingot]

I'd say most Higher Beings have a strong connection with the Dream Realm, while GMS has only a tangential connection to it, if any

[flat heart]

they can be both

all pale beings are higher beings last I remember

[kindred ingot]

Even WL has her own Dream Particle color

[flat heart]

wait is the knight a "higher being"

[solemn river]

Yeah

[flat heart]

because he can do the focusing

and the soul stuff

[spark valve]

Getting void heart makes it one

[kindred ingot]

Palestag, Pale Lurker

[flat heart]

without void lord

[kindred ingot]

I'd say so

[solemn river]

Still yes

[kindred ingot]

It's a being, and it's higher

[flat heart]

thats because they're related to the pale king

[spark valve]

Without void heart it isn’t a higher being

[kindred ingot]

Palestag isn't

[flat heart]

im sorry can you tell me what the palestag is again?

[kindred ingot]

The secret boss in Lost Verdania

The horse

[flat heart]

ohhh

i doubt that she's pale tho

mainly cuz she isnt cool

[kindred ingot]

HER NAME IS PALESTAG

[flat heart]

she has no aura

[kindred ingot]

She's described as pale

[edgy nebula]

heavily weakened prolly

[flat heart]

which therefore means

no pale

[kindred ingot]

That's not what defines a pale being

[flat heart]

im joking

but I still doubt it

[solemn river]

She isnt

[flat heart]

she might just be called pale

because she looks light

[kindred ingot]

Her name is PALEstag

[solemn river]

she might not be even real

[flat heart]

also the concept of "pale" might be related purely to color guys

like white light?

[solemn river]

it says in the hunters journal

[kindred ingot]

No she did exist but we don't know for sure if she was really like that

[flat heart]

like the pk?

[solemn river]

in the hunters journal hornet questions if the palestag was even real or a myth

[kindred ingot]

She says "was it really like what I saw?" Or smth like that

[flat heart]

guys the palestag CANNOT count as a pale being

[solemn river]

She said “Myth made real in memory. The creature seemed completely at one with the flora around it. Did it ever truly exist as I have seen it?”

[flat heart]

like from what we've seen

[kindred ingot]

Why not?

[flat heart]

pale beings are all high

they are all relatively powerful

[kindred ingot]

That's not true

Pale Lurker

[ocean apex]

Yos

[flat heart]

as I said

she's just the PALE kings servant

thats why she's called the pale lurker

[kindred ingot]

That's a No True Scotsman falacy

[solemn river]

Maybe they all have to power to resist the haunting or infection

[pearl grail]

Is that thing a boss or what idk

[kindred ingot]

You're stating that all Pale Beings are Higher Beings, then ruling off other Pale Beings as "not really Pale Beings" cuz they're not Higher Beings

[spark valve]

Not even the only connection pale lurker has is finding that idol and going inane over it

[flat heart]

imo High beings might just mean beings that are capable of sole thought without the need for another higher being to give them thought

but this is just the theory

[flat heart]

no no no

she was a soldier

[kindred ingot]

"Idol" It's a damn simple key

[flat heart]

under the pale king

[solemn river]

you find that thing in the coldmxqiwjmseseum of fools

[flat heart]

check the the hunter's journal entry

[spark valve]

No she was a fighter in the colosseum

[kindred ingot]

Meanwhile every bug of Pharloom:

[flat heart]

they are given thought

[kindred ingot]

They're literally not

[flat heart]

by being in the vicinity of a higher being

gms

[random harbor]

Hunter's Journal: Pale Lurker

Description:
Forgotten champion of the Colosseum, drawn away by strange obsessions.

Hunter's notes:
This odd creature is unaffected by and unaware of the disease drifting through the caverns. Its madness is all its own.

Dream Nail:
King! Mine!
Key! Treasure! Begone, begone!
For me! For you! For King!

@tammo6424 used /journal name: Pale Lurker

[kindred ingot]

They already had it before

[flat heart]

wait a damn second

I could've sworn it was like

a servat of the king

[spark valve]

The only connection to pk is having an idol which she’s insane about

[kindred ingot]

GMS is like doing the opposite of giving thought, she's taking away individuality

[flat heart]

ok you're right

thats funny actually

[tawdry flare]

That’s something that only the Pale King did. GMS does something similar when she uplifts the Weavers from pharlids

[kindred ingot]

Bugs can have thought without Higher Beings helping them

[flat heart]

alr then that theories done

[flat heart]

doesn't hk say that the pale king gave thought

I mean MOST bugs lose thought quickly

[solemn river]

yes

[kindred ingot]

The Ancient Caste had a complex writing system

[tawdry flare]

He did to a lot of bugs, yeah. There’s also a lot that don’t need his beacon for thought

[solemn river]

pale king expanded the bugs brains

[kindred ingot]

And they didn't worship any god

[edgy nebula]

palestag is described as a stag touched pale, not just a title like the pale lurker

[flat heart]

you mean the void civilization

[kindred ingot]

Same shit

[flat heart]

its possiblet their higher beingw as the void

or the "void lord"

[kindred ingot]

The Void wasn't united back then, it couldn't be a higher being

Also, the Void can't give, only take

[flat heart]

I mean it makes sense for higher beings to do ts

its their job to start civilization

[flat heart]

well it gave the knight crazy aura

so

[kindred ingot]

Nah, that's PK's genes

[solemn river]

They are both void dude

[flat heart]

pk is not void bro

he's literally the opposite

[kindred ingot]

Mask Maker calls them Ancient Caste, and Mask Maker is peak, so I'm calling them that

[flat heart]

and got slimed by the void

[solemn river]

then how does he do that void tendril attack??

[kindred ingot]

? No

[flat heart]

thats the wrong guy

[kindred ingot]

...Pale KING

[flat heart]

THATS PURE VESSEL

[kindred ingot]

Not Pure Vessel

[flat heart]

this guy bro

[solemn river]

Okay dude

[flat heart]

get a load of this guy bro

[flat heart]

nah im joking

[kindred ingot]

PK, not PV

[flat heart]

its reasonable

[solemn river]

MB i saw PK

[kindred ingot]

Anyway...

[flat heart]

anway

away

aay

ay

y

[kindred ingot]

Bugs don't need Higher Beings to have conscious thought

[flat heart]

some do

it would explain a lot

[kindred ingot]

I mean yeah

But not all

[flat heart]

alright thats reasonable

[kindred ingot]

For example, Pilgrims from Nameless Town

Or Boom from the Quirrel Comic

[flat heart]

wait whats up with Nameless Town

[flat heart]

no wait

Boon loses thought when away

he cant talk/speak

[kindred ingot]

He can, wdym

[flat heart]

he needs thought from the pale king

[flat heart]

simple speech

[kindred ingot]

Still speech

[flat heart]

doesnt mossbag say exactly this?

[kindred ingot]

Bro can cook meals

[kindred ingot]

I didn't know Mossbag worked for Team Cherry noe

Now*

[flat heart]

well he has like 70

iq

with the pk

he has

110

[kindred ingot]

That's more than 0

[flat heart]

well he's the most reliable source of lore

after tp

tc

[kindred ingot]

We never see him in Hallownest

[flat heart]

well Im saying he loses intelligence

slowly

its not instant

but he's not a genius

wait

compare him with tuuk

another bee creature thing

[kindred ingot]

Yeah Tuk seems way smarter

[flat heart]

tuuk is capable of complete speech, while the other guy is stupid

because

HE's IN HALLOWNEST

anyway im a d1 mossbag glazer so I trust him

[kindred ingot]

Another counterpoint: Hornet leaves Hallownest and continues to have her intelligence

[flat heart]

thats cuz she's the daughter of PK

a higher being

[kindred ingot]

The bugs of Pharloom continue to be smart even after GMS goes to the Abyss

[flat heart]

well the member's of hallownest

remain smart

after pk's death

[kindred ingot]

Yeah that sounds like a point in my favor

[flat heart]

no

hallownest

because it was udner the rule of the pk

retains the propertires

anything that enters hallownest gets smart

[kindred ingot]

But PK is still there. Inside the mind of a Kingsmould, but there. GMS literally leaves

[crystal marsh]

what's the debate

[kindred ingot]

Whether or not bugs NEED Higher Beings to be smart

[crystal marsh]

Mantises exist so no

[potent blaze]

Just a lil off topic, the white palace we see in the dream isnt the same as the one in hallownest's prime correct?

[crystal marsh]

it's the same in that it's the original physical structure

[flat heart]

corerect

[kindred ingot]

No, it's the real thing mixed with a metaphor

[potent blaze]

We dotn see them talk but they have legible writing skills

[kindred ingot]

And fully formed thoughts

[flat heart]

its architecture

[crystal marsh]

they were capable of building simple machines

[flat heart]

is compeltely illogical

[kindred ingot]

Dream nailing them gives out full sentences

[limpid summit]

They don’t talk cause they’re enemies that we fight

[potent blaze]

I wouldnt exactly call it the same physical structure, why would there be a bottomless pit where the floor is supposedly

[flat heart]

how long were the mantises there again?

[potent blaze]

Simple levers and trapdoors

[flat heart]

they existed before the PK no?

[potent blaze]

Before the arrival of PK

[flat heart]

alright then

[limpid summit]

Mantises Bees Spiders were around pre PK

[flat heart]

wait but the pale king DID bring intelligence

it lit says that

[limpid summit]

Yeah he did

[potent blaze]

Spiders were before PK, but weavers came after right

[crystal marsh]

yes, however it was not given to everyone

[limpid summit]

But just to bugs who didn’t have it before

And not even to all

Like crawlids didn’t become intelligent

[flat heart]

elite gatekeeping yo ✌️

[crystal marsh]

it's not even gatekeeping

[kindred ingot]

White Palace as we see it is not the real thing, it's mostly a metaphor mixed with feelings and memories, and the real thing is scattered around it

[flat heart]

well I assume theres a limit

[potent blaze]

most likely because they wouldve served zero purpose

[potent blaze]

If they got intelligence or not

[crystal marsh]

it is the real palace, it's where the real one ended up

[flat heart]

its like trying to make a bacteria a genius

[flat heart]

not exactly

I had like whole debate on ts bro

[crystal marsh]

yes exactly, multiple characters state it

[kindred ingot]

Explain the giant abyss (abyss, not Abyss) and non-Euclidean geometry

[potent blaze]

Then why would there be a bottomless pit at every room instead of a floor

[flat heart]

wrong

[limpid summit]

Cause it’s in the dream realm

[crystal marsh]

i did not say it was translocated 1:1

[limpid summit]

Sure he added dream stuff

[flat heart]

explain the fuckass buzzsaws

and the fuckass pathing

[limpid summit]

The buzzsaws and infinite soul totems might not have been there

[kindred ingot]

And the multiple saw blades where there should be furniture

[flat heart]

holup lemme pull up some ss

[limpid summit]

The whole game has pathing it’s a platformer

[crystal marsh]

do I have to quote Lemm and WJ verbatim

[potent blaze]

Therefore the palace in the dream is not the palace of HN's Prime

[limpid summit]

Yeah it is

[flat heart]

so instead of make a bunch of elevators

[limpid summit]

He moved the palace and the saws and spikes likely came as a result of his tortured psyche

Plus the bottomless drops as something innate to the dream realm

[flat heart]

yes

[solemn river]

Maybe the pk was scared of the bugs seeing him as he is, so he made it impossible for any bug to see him

[flat heart]

his subconscious is defending itself

[limpid summit]

But the core of the palace is still physical

[flat heart]

its effectively dream defense

[limpid summit]

Well it’s not his

[flat heart]

like in inception

[crystal marsh]

if a physical object is moved to the dream realm it doesn't suddenly become non-physical

[limpid summit]

We don’t go into his head

[kindred ingot]

Also, non Euclidean geometry

[limpid summit]

He put the stuff there

[potent blaze]

That makes a lot of sense now

[limpid summit]

In what sense do y mean

[kindred ingot]

It kinda does

[potent blaze]

Yea we js enter the mind of a kingsmould's corpse

[kindred ingot]

There's a room that has a right exit that leads to the left

[limpid summit]

Eh

I guess

[flat heart]

not his head

[limpid summit]

But that might be perspective shift

[flat heart]

how do you describe the color of the sky changing, and generally just bullshit architecture

[kindred ingot]

Also, Path of Pain

[limpid summit]

A dream

[kindred ingot]

Path of Pain has no physical explanation

[flat heart]

o thats just for training vessels

[limpid summit]

I never said it wasn’t a dream

[flat heart]

exactly

its not a one to one replica

[limpid summit]

No it’s not

[kindred ingot]

No fucking way that place existed

[limpid summit]

But it’s not a replica at all

[flat heart]

its like the upgraded demon replica

[crystal marsh]

Neither of us ever said that

[limpid summit]

He physically moved it

[flat heart]

I feel like it is

[potent blaze]

hold on shouldnt this be in rhe other lore channel because we lowk deviates off GMS

[limpid summit]

Like how the dreamers physically trap us in a dream

[flat heart]

thats reasonable

kind of

[limpid summit]

Technically sure but like there’s no point in moving it

[kindred ingot]

It's the "secrets sealed", it's literally a coping mechanism

[limpid summit]

It doesn’t not belong

[kindred ingot]

Path of Pain is a coping mechanism

[potent blaze]

true

[limpid summit]

I don’t think he actually created the path of pain

[flat heart]

hmmmmm

actually makes sense

[limpid summit]

Well no

He has the lore tablet

That was more of a subconscious thing

[potent blaze]

Which also shows us how PK "tainted" the PV with an idea instilled

[limpid summit]

Cause he was never going to go past it

[crystal marsh]

this isn't what PoP is necessarily saying

[flat heart]

whats your argument again

lowkey got lost in the sauce

[kindred ingot]

He was trying to forget it, and subconsciously made PoP

[crystal marsh]

PoP is what PK thought made THK fail

it is not objective fact

[spark valve]

Even this is basically just fanon

[kindred ingot]

It's the best we got

[crystal marsh]

objectively speaking, no

[flat heart]

makes sense

[flat heart]

yes it is

wait actually

nah

[kindred ingot]

Then what IS the best we got?

[flat heart]

im switching up

[flat heart]

vessel training grounds or some kind of test

[crystal marsh]

THK was never pure to begin with because WL contradicts herself in regards to what she deems to be a pure vessel

[kindred ingot]

That place is physically impossible. Just look at it. Some of those buzzsaws clip through the goddamn floor

[crystal marsh]

and the fact that she literally admits herself that there's no way she can genuinely tell if a vessel before her is pure or not

[flat heart]

well thats probably because

the game is 2d

it looks like clipping but in canon

[kindred ingot]

Also, too many spikes

[flat heart]

its probably through a hole in the ground

[flat heart]

vessel training ground

[kindred ingot]

There's no way there's that many spikes in PK's actual palace

[flat heart]

just path of pain

not everything

[kindred ingot]

The whole palace is filled with it

[flat heart]

well im saying the IRL path of pain is probably very similar to the dream one

[kindred ingot]

It's specifically the "secrets sealed"
Path of Pain was created to seal the secret

[flat heart]

if there is a real one

[flat heart]

hmmmm

that makes the most sense actually

wait no

its possible that was a dream addition

[kindred ingot]

Wait, does the WL section of Red Memory contain any buzz saws? I don't remember

[flat heart]

wait this is actually the best way to prove this

[crystal marsh]

how?

[flat heart]

if there are any then it may be closer to the real white palace

[gloomy plank]

No but I think it had the thorns

[kindred ingot]

I actually do not remember

[kindred ingot]

Ok, so buzzsaws are a dream addition, but the thorns were just there

Why does PK have so many thorns?

[spark valve]

Nothing whatsoever actually implies pop has anything to do with the failure or was perceived to, what’s implied is that it was a valuable memory of great importance that the seal was used to preserve

[flat heart]

flora of the castl

decoration

houseplants ig

[crystal marsh]

why would PK seal the memory if he didn't think it related to THK's failure in some manner

[random harbor]

Hunter's Journal: Seal of Binding

Description:
Intricate seal of ancient design.
Used to contain a powerful force, or to preserve something of great importance.

@tammo6424 used /journal name: Seal of Binding

[spark valve]

‘or to preserve something of great importance’

It’s sealed to preserve it

[crystal marsh]

i'm asking why he would believe it was important, if it wasn't related to why he thought THK failed

[kindred ingot]

I gtg

Cya!

[spark valve]

It’s important to him as a sentimental memory

[frigid belfry]

https://tenor.com/view/yuji-stare-yuji-itadori-jjk-jujutsu-kaisen-yuji-stare-meme-gif-2566228405341525362

[crystal marsh]

fair, though i feel like what you're saying isn't a counterpoint against the original claim

[flat heart]

ts NOT sentimental

its like one of his greatest failures by a long shot

[spark valve]

Hollow knight fan play the game challenge

Do you remember what the actual memory being preserved is

[flat heart]

I have 100% bud

[flat heart]

its a memory of him

with the baby hk

[spark valve]

I’m saying the original claim is utterly baseless

[flat heart]

or young hk

[spark valve]

Yes why would sitting with his child in a moment of peace be a sentimental moment

[flat heart]

and him being a lil too friendly with him

which probably made him NOT hollow

[crystal marsh]

incorrect

it was never pure to begin with

WL outright states that it was assumed to be pure

[flat heart]

are you taking this based off what WL says?

oh alr

wait

[crystal marsh]

not just WL but yes

[flat heart]

she might be referring to this moment

this is the moment where walter white became the bay harbour butcher

[crystal marsh]

her rationalization of what she thinks made THK fail is invalidated by her later statement that she can't actually tell when a vessel is pure or not

[flat heart]

so all of her shit on vessels can be bullshit then?

[crystal marsh]

in regards to purity, yes

[flat heart]

so the hollow knight COULD have been corrupted by the pale king in that moment

[crystal marsh]

i just said that that is not the case

[flat heart]

so

you said

that WL does not have proper judgement on this

correct?

anyway can we move ts to hk lore?

its getting pretty far from sk

[crystal marsh]

yes, her judgement is inconsistent and incoherent

[flat heart]

so she could be wrong about hk in some ways

the hk I mean

[crystal marsh]

i'm not saying she could be wrong - she is wrong

[flat heart]

Im sorry Im losing the ball here

can you explain

what she said again?

wait now I remember

his supposed strength was ill judged

meaning he wasn't as pure as tpk thought him out to be

[crystal marsh]

she also wrongfully assumes TK to be pure from the start, before later admitting that she can't actually tell if a Vessel is pure or not

[flat heart]

so the hollow knight could've been pure from the start

just corrupted

because she says that he NOT pure from the start

[crystal marsh]

no...it was never pure, because the assumption that her and PK made (that all vessels began as pure from the moment of creation) is demonstrably wrong

[tawdry flare]

Well, no, THK never could’ve been “hollow” or “pure” or whatever, because that’s impossible

[sinful nimbus]

hollow means filled with void \🤓\🤓

[flat heart]

well whatever

this is far from the original argument

[gentle aspen]

😐

[flat heart]

what?

cuteness

trust

[rustic junco]

hollow means empty of hope in this world

[flat heart]

saddening

[edgy nebula]

sometimes it’s ok to take moderation action

[graceful grail]

Are we all going to overlook the fact that weavenests have LITERAL TELEPORTATION TECHNOLOGY??

[flat heart]

elaborate

[flat heart]

must've been the wind

[rustic junco]

Its just fast elevators

[craggy smelt]

that fact is actually pretty insane

the silkstream

[edgy nebula]

had teleportation technology and cindril made anklets that make you go half a mile faster 💔

[tidal meteor]

https://youtube.com/shorts/LKolf71LrnQ?si=UKexjo9sk61BryNw

[graceful grail]

In weavenest atla

[dusky bay]

I do wonder greyroot does look like the white lady
So like does that confirm that greyroot is zote's mother if white lady made vessels

Since zote is from shellwood