sk-lore

[craggy smelt]

that might be true in some cases, but as we see with the black threads, Void will consume and mimic the effects of Soul while also following its own desires and hunger, devouring bugs

PK's constructs were seemingly experiments in any case, different attempts to harness the Void - his process with the vessels was different

[midnight reef]

the process with the vessels seems like it was very spur of the moment

[craggy smelt]

I don't know about that
but he decided to use his children to give the Void form, rather than moulds or runes or artificial shells

[midnight reef]

it seems like for what he wanted the moulds would be a better fit

Which leads me to believe that there was just something fundementally different with the Vessels that allowed them to even contain the radience at all

maybe its as simple as being able to manipulate soul willingly? None of the PKs moulds are seen to be able of using Soul directly, I dont think

[craggy smelt]

so, here's what I think about vessel purity

I don't think PK wanted a vessel that was literally without a mind - the whole plan was to lock Radiance in a vessel's mind, so he wouldn't want one that didn't have one
his words aren't a list of literal requirements, they're an allusion to some other idea - everyone assumes it's something like having no thoughts or feelings

but I noticed something about the Knight that's different from other Void beings

one of these things is not like the others

Broken Vessel - memories of a vessel left behind on their shell
Kingsmould - a Void being instilled with Essence in PK's workshop
The Hollow Knight - a vessel that failed, said to be tarnished by an 'idea instilled'
The Knight - described as being free of the 'ideas instilled' that blemished THK

TK shows Void where other Void beings show Essence. Their mind is full of Void instead.

No Essence. No dreams. Almost as if they had... no mind to think.

Void beings don't have Soul normally - they can store it in a shell, but the 'Shade' doesn't carry any

I think PK wanted a Void being without Soul or Essence - lacking 'life' and 'dreams' - that this is what it means to be 'empty' in the sense he wanted

this is why Radiance calls TK 'the Empty One', why WL says she can't sense their feelings, why she thinks they're pure while THK was 'tarnished' by 'ideas,' etc.

(and this is also possibly why PK didn't use kingsmoulds, since they had Essence as part of their design, and that was no gud)

[midnight reef]

I guess

But correct me if Im wrong, your implying what made the knight pure is that it lacked dreams?

in some sense

[craggy smelt]

basically
if you think of Essence and Void as languages, beings like PK, WL, and Rad can't 'read' Void
without Essence, TK's mental state can't be perceived - as if they had 'no mind, etc.'

so Rad would just be stuck in total darkness forever

[midnight reef]

I dont think thats whats intended in the Hollow Knight ending, though

I always took it as just delaying the inevitable

[craggy smelt]

a lot of people see it that way

honestly, I still think going DNM is better

even if TK won't fail, it's an eternity as a living prison, and Godseeker might fuck it up eventually anyway

[midnight reef]

maybe

I really dont have much to say against your argument, beyond it just feeling off to me, personally

[craggy smelt]

got 'em

[midnight reef]

What did the Hollow Knight in was their care for the Pale King, yes?

Or maybe a dream of a better future?

[craggy smelt]

I do think the Path of Pain scene is most plausibly what the game suggests is the 'idea instilled' that WL refers to

or the source of it anyway

the most straight-forward interpretation would be that yeah, there was a bond that formed there and that's what caused THK to ultimately fail

[midnight reef]

I ask that, because the Knight is shown to care for those around them, least through saving Hornet in Sister of the Void, and maybe by sitting with Quirrell in their final moments, or helping Cloth face her fears
would those not be threads the Radience could pull at?

[craggy smelt]

well this is why I think the powers involved are the real key - Void, Essence, etc.
TK has the capacity for mind and memory and cares about others, but they show no signs of Essence in the Birthplace, towards the end of their journey
they can have all the bonds they want, but without Essence I think their mind remains imperceptible
so they'll always be seen as 'empty' by beings like WL, PK, and Rad
Rad needs to perceive her victim's mental state to create a temptation for them and get them to succumb to the infection - if she can't know their desires, she'd be powerless

[midnight reef]

Plus the Knight being a vessel capable of indefinitely containing the radiance just kinda... ruins Dream No More, story wise?
Not something beyond TC to overlook, but
Why go through the effort, remember their own past and recon with it, when they could just hold the radience forever?

...without implying the knight doesnt want to be imprisioned forever with an angry moth knockin around in their noggin, which is another thing that the radiance could pull at

[craggy smelt]

I don't really see it that way
TK comes to terms with their nature as a being of the Void and transcends the plan PK had for it, outright destroying the Radiance and returning to rule the Void
defying all attempts at control and the inevitability of nature
much better than being an evil-sealing can forever

[midnight reef]

its also the only point where you dreamnail yourself

We really dont see many cases of the dream nail being used on a similar void being

beyond maybe the Siblings?

I dont know, really, I feel like im grasping at straws here, lol

[craggy smelt]

we see dream dives with four Void/vessel-related beings, I posted them
regular dream nail use against Collector and Kingsmoulds show dream nail dialogue and grant Soul
regular use against Siblings show no dialogue and grant no Soul

I think whatever Essence the Siblings may have had as vessels would have been left behind on their shells when they 'died'

hence Broken Vessel having Essence lingering on their shell, even thought their Shade is long gone

[midnight reef]

beyond it "feeling wrong" to me, it really feels like it nukes why Dream No More is the "good" ending

idk, its 5am now, and I rpobably need to sleep

[craggy smelt]

jesus

sleep!

humans need it!

good night everybody

[midnight reef]

false!

I need more figuring out on how I want to do a stupidly large Silksong mod ;3

[craggy smelt]

that does sound awesome and worthy but you know what helps the thought process? rest.

[midnight reef]

Did you know- The Needolin had... well, sorta still has, an attunement mechanic that was mostly cut?

that idea spiraled quickly

so why not have more Atla, and reanable the cut memory font within Greymoor, and add more to other places!

[kindred ingot]

I have a theory

[whole holly]

what is it?

[kindred ingot]

Murglin made the Architects

we find the Silkshot on her Weavenest, there's a lore tablet there talking about inventing stuff, and by process of elimination, her Burial Spire is in the Underworks, which is also where Twelfth Architect is

[whole holly]

i have question about Deep Docks bugs, are Forge Bugs different species, what role did they play for Weavers and Citadel?

[prime sundial]

how did they die??? i even did true ending and he was still alive, but after i beated green prince they died

[sharp heath]

ithink they die act 3 ince you buy everything

[dreamy onyx]

are there any distinctly not bug creatures in silksong

the one example I can think of are the Kai in the coral tower

everything else looks bug-like enough

[autumn umbra]

well we have craws

[rapid bloom]

I believe it "dies" once you buy everything from their shop

[rapid bloom]

They extracted precious metals for the Citadel, hence why it is all gilded and beautiful as we see it now
It is also the place from which the materials required to create those mechanical inventions come from

[fresh badger]

Yumas?

I mean nothing is outright stated not to be a bug

[dreamy onyx]

Craw have antennae and segmented torsos

[dreamy onyx]

Yumas yeah how did I forget lmao

[fresh badger]

Nuphars are fool eater type living plants

[dreamy onyx]

I think Yumas are the closest we're getting

I really wish there was a classification of all the bugs in Silksong

like bugs without shells, bugs with bones, that sort of thing

[autumn umbra]

what are yumas

[fresh badger]

Wow its crazy how lush silksong is yet it has less plant enemies than hk

Or less non-bugs

Like hk had gulkas and fool eaters and the shrumals are all not bug or plant

[dreamy onyx]

The little jellyfish in the Coral Tower

[dreamy onyx]

Well tbf they weren't dreamt into existence like the Mosskin were

[autumn umbra]

idk how u ppl learn those random names

[rapid bloom]

You can check the wiki

[autumn umbra]

true^^

[rapid bloom]

But to memorize the names of all journal entries is odd

[dreamy onyx]

The only ones I don't remember are all the Greymoor ones

And also I'm not great with the Coral Tower ones

[autumn umbra]

I don't think I've learned even the first game's and I've been playing for a while

okie so um imma test u

what're the Bilewater green flying bugs called?

[dreamy onyx]

Swamp Squits

[autumn umbra]

ohhh

idk if that's right but u seem confident so yea

[rapid bloom]

They have weird names
Jago for instance

[dreamy onyx]

idek where Jago comes from

It looks like it should be pronounced Yago

[rapid bloom]

But lore wise, best army of Pharloom besides the Citadel's

[dreamy onyx]

Wait no it is Yago lmao

[rapid bloom]

Damn it 😭🙏

I fumbled

[autumn umbra]

i was gonna ask for another enemy name but idk how to describe it unu

[dreamy onyx]

try your best

[autumn umbra]

it's like the pilgrim specific to blasted steps? they seem old

they have a weapon and a thing they get under to protect themselves

[dreamy onyx]

Pilgrim Hikers

[rapid bloom]

Pilgrim with a shell hide and a pin that wanna pierce you

[autumn umbra]

yea!

[autumn umbra]

yesh that's a better description -w-

[rapid bloom]

High Halls gauntlet's huge bugs with maces

[dreamy onyx]

Choir Clappers

[rapid bloom]

Skarrsinger Karmelita's personal guard ants

Last one I promise

[dreamy onyx]

Last Claw

[rapid bloom]

Goddamn

[heavy gyro]

Gahlias and pollenicas

[dreamy onyx]

oh yeah you're right

and also Phacias

[heavy gyro]

I think those are bugs disguised as flowers

[dreamy onyx]

I think the Shellwood creatures blur the line

In general I think any animal in Silksong is called a bug

Lace is called a bug but she doesn't look anything like a bug

[marble oasis]

Canonically she does

Like in universe

[rapid bloom]

Even tho she is made entirely of silk?

[glad osprey]

probably as equivalent of 'person' as a word but

[finite wind]

Spiders are called bugs even though they aren't too

[soft sedge]

with the statue of the knight in godhome not god nor bug nor beast seems to connote decreasing intelligence mainly

*wrong order but yeah

[limpid summit]

I never thought abt it like that

That’s an interesting reading

But idk I think it’s resonance

There are gods with beastly thought like MMC

[foggy ocean]

hi

[whole holly]

MMC?

[heavy gyro]

that would imply gods are the least intelligent

[whole holly]

why? they meant in decreasing order if he his quote is right gods would be most intelligent

[heavy gyro]

the quote was wrong which invalidates their entire point

Its "not bug, nor beast, nor god"

[whole holly]

oh, that quote would invalidate their point, if anything it suggests strength or resonance, not sapience

what even is Resonance, only implication of it in Silksong is tuning fork which has resonance in real life

also maestro and minister needolin dialogue:

Grant us resonance!
Great Conductors!
Holy masters!
Your vision guides us...
Your devotion compels us!
Highest of the high!

also cut content ;"Repeat" Those bells. Even you're impressed? The Weavers worked out the way, tapping the resonance of the land itself, and the lingering echoes of song, feeding it up here.

It's all so wonderous, but awakened it's a blasted nuisance! I'd just about accepted our fate to come, then you had to appear and stir everything up! - Caretaker

[crystal marsh]

cut content isn't canon

[whole holly]

but i still decided to write it here

[crystal marsh]

what i'm saying is that it's irrelevant for argument

[whole holly]

okay, i am not solely relying on it for argument, just spreading awareness

[crystal marsh]

sigh

[limpid summit]

I don’t think resonance is an actual thing

It’s just a word with multiple connotations

Godly resonance and the music they play are very different

It’s sort of like focus honestly

But just in name

[whole holly]

true

[whole holly]

sigh...

[whole holly]

but resonance is phenomenon that encompasses both sound and light and any type of wave in real world, it is possible resonance is just as broad in world of hollow knight

[viscid ridge]

They're just homonyms, like crest, silk and thread are used very loosely

[mint stratus]

I like to refer to the dead pinstress in bile water as “Tailor” because it fits the naming conventions of the seamstress and pinstress

New theory: they had to kill off the third one because her name didn’t end in “stress”

[viscid ridge]

Something with stress would be cooler, but i dont know what else she vould be called

I also think she would be called Pinstress. Im sure all of them have the title of pinstress, but the seamstress only changed her title after she became peaceful

Like Nailmasters

[mint stratus]

I HAVE LEARNED A NEW WORD

[mint stratus]

Oh fair

[whole holly]

oh wow

maybe we would fight it in pantheon of pharloom

who knows

[viscid ridge]

I doubt specifically this name would apply to the 3rd one, considering only Seamstress seems to have chosen that new title. Maybe something like Pinmaster, or Pin Lady or something like that idk

[heavy gyro]

Huntress

[whole holly]

Songstress: A female singer.
Mistress: Historically, a woman in a position of authority or a female teacher (the counterpart to "Master").
Huntress: A woman who hunts.
Votress: A woman bound by religious vows. but also Spinstress - woman whose occupation was spinning thread

Votress and Spinstress are most likely candidates unless it is just Pinstress

what do game files say?(i know they aren't canon)

[mint stratus]

Spinstress sounds good

[whole holly]

i agree but apparently it changed to spinster which in turn took on different meaning

[whole holly]

with derogatory context it means unmarried woman

in your opinion when will be sea of sorrows be dropping?

[limpid summit]

Early or mid summer

The found cutscene shows they already sort of have stuff going on

[edgy nebula]

same ngl

[foggy fractal]

idk ngl

[edgy nebula]

theyre definitely reusing alot of assets so despite how big the dlc will be i dont think itll take super long

[viscid ridge]

Nothing, shes just called big corpse

[whole holly]

wow

[tawdry flare]

Oh word

[craggy smelt]

i need to find a hempstress, you know what i mean?

[marble oasis]

Yes, Hornet can only tell she’s made of Silk and not flesh because she smells like it

Which implies she’s visually indistinguishable from some species of bug

[muted lantern]

And also lace assumes hornet only knows what she is after she's been cut open to expose she's made of silk. On the exterior she probably passes as a normal if not strange looking bug.

[primal ingot]

evil twin sister of seamstress

[marble oasis]

Do you think she’s stuffed with Silk like a plush toy or she’s more like a porcelain figure

[whole holly]

i think she might be bedbug

lol

[drifting walrus]

She’s definitely hollow

[muted lantern]

I think shes like a black skeletal structure made of black silk like her face, with more white silk wrapped around it. I think when undisturbed though the top layer is hard to distinguish from shell

I think phantoms body is mostly black as they are missing the top layer of white silk

While the grey part is white silk that's decayed

[drifting walrus]

Similar to how gms looks in the background of ll arena?

[muted lantern]

Sort of

Though people argue she's just covered in void there

[marble oasis]

She’s not

[muted lantern]

Just putting it out there as I've seen star argue it

At least I think it was star

[spark valve]

doesn't seem like a star take

[muted lantern]

Like 90% sure it was

[sinful nimbus]

Its true

[muted lantern]

My memory is too powerful

[sinful nimbus]

We see her unravel in Weaver Queen she's not black

[muted lantern]

Except when it isn't

[marble oasis]

Her face and hands are though

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah true

I was talkin about the body

[marble oasis]

Also you can see Void staining on her metal parts but the torso looks different and just like thin silk

[sinful nimbus]

Its weirdly drawn

My first thought was that she had a black body too but she just doesn't in weaver queen

[marble oasis]

I know, it’s weird

Maybe Silk is black when tightly woven and turns white when fraying off her body

[spark valve]

you just can't see it while the outside is furiously unravelling or smth

[marble oasis]

There’s better frames to illustrate this point

She looks white most of the way through

@sinful nimbus Do you have it

[muted lantern]

Maybe she just disentigrates from within first

[spark valve]

or it's black in the abyss because she's using so much of her silk

[sinful nimbus]

These are the frames

[marble oasis]

yeah thank you

[viscid ridge]

I personally think its just silk that is greying with age, like we see with phantom. So the black face might represent that its the oldest part of her body

[marble oasis]

Ehh

The grey part of Phantom is what’s fraying

The black is just fine

No it isn’t

The black part is also fraying but it was always black

[viscid ridge]

I doubt it, her head looks to be completely fraying, so its going from a gradiant of black to grey

[marble oasis]

That’s fucked up her head is literally split apart

Assuming the black is the “skeleton”

[viscid ridge]

I dont even know if they have a skeleton.

[foggy fractal]

I can't believe this topic is still alive

[viscid ridge]

If they are completely made of silk

[marble oasis]

The “inner body” is what I meant

[sinful nimbus]

have y'all considered that they all look like that underneath their headpieces

[foggy fractal]

I have considered

[marble oasis]

There is no gradient though, the dress is fully gray and the arms and head are fully black

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah Lace and GMS have it too

[viscid ridge]

I doubt it, i think its supposed to represent how their bodies are fraying, i assume phantom also had some sort of weird headshape before it completely unwound

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah probably

[marble oasis]

To be honest I don’t think Lace’s head is just shaped like a croissant I think it’s a hair covering or something

[viscid ridge]

Eh sure, but that head of her is definitely the part thats in the process of fraying, not her dress.

[sinful nimbus]

I used to argue for Lace having horns because GMS had them too but she's also frayed 😔

"Though grey with age" implies the gray parts are frayed too

[marble oasis]

Yes, but the greying and the fraying are two different processes

[marble oasis]

No it doesn’t

It implies the opposite of that

[spark valve]

the form is overall frayed and grey

[viscid ridge]

Not really, i imagine you first start to grey as you age, before eventually completly unwinding, which i think is represented in her design

[sinful nimbus]

ig

[marble oasis]

“Though grey from age” (weird) “their frayed form suggested a being strung from Silk” (expected)

[viscid ridge]

?

[whole holly]

Jesus symbolism is present

[marble oasis]

The fraying makes it easy for Hornet to tell that she’s made of Silk, but the greying disguises it, hence they are different

If greying came hand in hand with fraying it wouldn’t be odd

[viscid ridge]

How even...?

I think personally you're either reading a bit too deep into that line or just not understanding idk

[marble oasis]

Hornet can tell she’s made of Silk because she’s fraying, yes?

Even “though” she is grey

[whole holly]

It is possibly greying can be separate phenomenon altogether, phantom can be greyed because soul in Silk is dwindling and it is just grey threads hence graying from age

[whole holly]

We do see Spider Threads that don’t contain Soul therefore are different from Silk they are typically grey

[valid vale]

hornet is 14 right??

[whole holly]

Are burning bugs haunted? Somebody said they get strung up by silk

[spark valve]

she's an ancient demigod who's been alive for generations
she is not 14

[foggy fractal]

😭 what Tammo said but where'd you get this from??

[covert night]

tomorrow

[marble oasis]

It was revealed in CFYOW

[foggy fractal]

😱

[whole holly]

Does anyone know this

[sinful nimbus]

Would explain her behavior but no

[viscid ridge]

They are, if you use needolin next to them you can see they are haunted

They have the same silk strings that can be seen if enemies are haunted

[whole holly]

Wow do you have video of that I want to be sure

[marble oasis]

very easy thing to check man

[foggy fractal]

man those stone pillars really are everywhere huh

[whole holly]

How is that trait of haunting it looks like aura rather than silk string puppeteering them

[marble oasis]

The string above him

[whole holly]

Are they weaver architecture?

[whole holly]

How did I not see that

I feel dumb but thanks

[viscid ridge]

I dont, but i do it every time i enter the thicket for the first time so i know its real

[viscid ridge]

Those stone pillars are the key to a mystery im just not sure what

But they are suspicious as fuck

[marble oasis]

They’re fossilised Weaver silk

[viscid ridge]

They are weird, they dont necessarily look weaver, but they are common around citidel architecture, but also in places they should necessarily be

Thats why i find them suspicious

[marble oasis]

https://www.tumblr.com/mebis-silksong-corner/804312254420008960/the-stone-pillars-have-a-weird-texture

MEBI's silksong corner

The stone pillars have a weird texture

some are even hollow...

Tumblr · Dec 29, 2025, 11:45 PM

[viscid ridge]

I have a personal theory of what they are, but im gonna keep hold of it untill we hopefully get some further stuff about it

[marble oasis]

To hell with your theory

[valid vale]

i scrolling on yt and i saw a comment saying that shes 14 so i thought she was

[gentle aspen]

because random yt comments are lore authorities

[edgy nebula]

some are even hollow…? heh. knight.

[foggy fractal]

we should ban you for this

[covert night]

😭

[foggy fractal]

mods!

get her!

[viscid ridge]

One thing that bugs me, is why there are pillars in sands of karak. Realistically it shouldn't be there.

If we assume the pillars are weaver architecture, and if we assume that the karake was there before the weavers, those pillars shouldn't be there. We even see the karake made their architecture on top of a broken pillar, which doesn't make sense to me on a time line scale.

There is a case to be made it shouldn't be in verdania, but im not certain on that

[valid vale]

yo yo yo guys im sorry im kinda new to silksong ok ?

[covert night]

they are just rock pillars, why wouldn't karak build them

[viscid ridge]

Cause the architecture of the pillars suggest they are weaver architecture

[viscid ridge]

See here

[edgy nebula]

how

[marble oasis]

See above

[viscid ridge]

Like when i first played the game i thought they were built to keep the citidel stable, but they are in very strange places

So i dont think thats the case

[covert night]

there is also this citadel structure too

[edgy nebula]

i mean, them being made of stone doesnt mean they were made by the citadel

[marble oasis]

Weavers might be draining the water from Karak

Where do they build on top of a pillar?

[edgy nebula]

from my memory either in one of the two long parkour sections or 2? rooms to the right of the coral tower

[viscid ridge]

Yeah definitely, i can see they built structures in some parts of sands of karak, but it the pillars seem to have been there while, or before the karake were alive. Idk its all weird

[marble oasis]

I would need to see a picture

The only thing I can think of is crust growing over the pillars which is quite reasonable

[viscid ridge]

I agree, but this specific type of stone is associated with the weavers and weavenests i feel

[viscid ridge]

Ill hopefully get a picture

[edgy nebula]

heres what they were referring to

@marble oasis

[marble oasis]

Hmm

[covert night]

why

[sinful nimbus]

gilly gurr theory 🗣️

[covert night]

i mean what makes you think that they are older than karak

[edgy nebula]

that one youtube short dedicated entirely to the gurr is gilly's dad theory

[sinful nimbus]

hm

[edgy nebula]

the spikes on that one pillar are kinda weird

[sinful nimbus]

it does look like weaver architecture though so

[spark valve]

the pillars might... just be old karak

which had former widespread power

[viscid ridge]

I definitely think a large majority of these pillars are older than the karak. My first instinct is maybe the ancient civilization? We know they were in pharloom, but im sure they would have had more evidence of their existence.

So im not sure thats the right awnser

[edgy nebula]

we know coral continues to grow even after khann's stasis, so maybe the pathway is that? but an entire pathway growing is a bit farfetched

[viscid ridge]

Honestly maybe, cause its said that khan ruled half of pharloom at one point, so maybe these pillars are their doing? But they seem to be in too many places to be the case

[marble oasis]

Pathway yes fence no

[viscid ridge]

I also thought of this, its incredibly strange.

Coral can regrow lore tablets so maybe being able to regrow a whole pathway isn't out of the question

[marble oasis]

Does it regrow though or just refresh when you leave the screen like everything else

[viscid ridge]

Do you mean the lore tablet or the pathway?

Cause the lore tablets regrows instantly, the path never breaks

[marble oasis]

I swear I broke it and had to leave to read it again

[viscid ridge]

Nah they pop back up after like 3 seconds

[marble oasis]

I see

[dusky bay]

I wanna know how sherma passes through the door even though you can just not open it

[flat heart]

which one?

[graceful grail]

He can just squeeze thru the gate because hes so smol

[icy token]

The judge allowed him through because he's sinless

[jade kindle]

One thing that still confuses me

The citadel was built specifically to imprison gms
It works for a long time but the bugs left in charge get addicted to stuffing themselves with silk which starts the haunting, all that is clear

But isn’t gms is full control now, is she really imprisoned anymore

The game says she’s desperate to wake when she could just have the bugs she’s controlling undo her prison

They’re already going on complex expeditions kingdoms away to kidnap weavers for her

[icy token]

She didn't have enough power

She needs the weaver juice to gain power

[jade kindle]

She has no trouble breaking free when hornet garama’s which gave me the impression she could always do that

[viscid ridge]

Her prison seems to have already been undone, but that cacoon seems to be her protective state. It also probably involves why she was capturing weavers, to bind their strength it seems.

The web holding her captive seems to have been broken when the citidel went to ruin. But it at the moment doesn't make all that much sense, but i feel it will be explained more, or other information will come out to explain whats up

[jade kindle]

Maybe

Would like to know when lace and phantom came to be

I had a theory that phantom was made before the weavers trapped her and lace was made after, thats why she has such an obsession with lace

Because she was created to cope with that betrayal, and being in that mind state made lace so manic

[viscid ridge]

Thats the biggest gap in the lore at the moment, but i think they will 100% give us a new piece of lore or area that explains when they were made

[craggy smelt]

I think her gathering of the Weavers might be more for the sake of the silkborn than herself - that she needs to harvest them to sustain Lace

[jade kindle]

I think lace is more so a replacement for them

[craggy smelt]

the silkborn are, certainly
though Phantom seems to be regarded as a failure, or at least with less favor than Lace

[jade kindle]

Damn can’t send images, just gonna copy paste the dialogue

“...Better a child spun mad... than none...
...Better a child spun frail... than none...
...Better a child spun pure... than them...
...One to wish our waking...”

She was definitely made after the weaver betrayal

[strong arch]

uh how does silk soar work in terms of lorewise/physics wise
is it just a vertical version of clawline where hornet just throws needle when it's attached to silk and just jumps toward needle?

[icy token]

Ye

[split path]

why do people hate on ass jim bruu

[finite wind]

Who's hating

[split path]

ppl are voting

he's voted as the most evil individual in pharloom

[finite wind]

That's not hating

Where do I vote though

[split path]

on reddit

and yes it is hating

[finite wind]

I want to vote for hornet

[split path]

just

a different kind of hate

[split path]

hnld on

just search for this title

i thought the conductors deserved the spot to be evil

[finite wind]

Ok

[split path]

lugoli was eating bugs IN A WORLD FULL OF BUGS

bro like wdym cannibalism

😢

[finite wind]

The conductors just don't know what they are doing at worst

I think hornet is more evil

[split path]

shitting on bilewater

[finite wind]

I think weavers did that

[split path]

bro hornet technically caused a apocalypse in pharloom, then had to stay back at pharloom to solve the problem why is she evil?

[split path]

no the weaver created the system and the conductors kinda just executors

[finite wind]

Kills kids and kills the green prince for no reason and then she calls him a narcissist

[split path]

that is 1 thing, and also it's for his heart which is not for nothing

[finite wind]

Conductors had fucked up means, but they were simple bugs handed the task demigods could barely handle, and if they failed they would lose everything including the kingdom and themselves. Under that much pressure, most would struggle to make reasonable decisions. They were not evil for the sake of it, at least certainly not as a group

[split path]

what kid?

[finite wind]

From a comment from reddit

[finite wind]

A heart she did not need

[split path]

did you just copy and pasted that 😔

[split path]

oh ok

[finite wind]

The baby judges

[split path]

well the thing is they did that nonetheless

[finite wind]

Hornet caused an apocalypse nonetheless

[jade kindle]

She was tricked into doing it

[split path]

you need 3 hearts to do the quest, so you can skip any of the hearts and go for green prince's

[jade kindle]

She was told it would set the lands free

[split path]

wtf? :(

[jade kindle]

And then she did the impossible to fix it which DID set the lands free

Hornet is the best thing that ever happened there

[finite wind]

She was not tasked to kill him

[split path]

they're grown bro

they're literally called "judge"

[split path]

NOT ON PURPOSE

[finite wind]

The prince told her to go away

[finite wind]

No they aren't

They didn't do anything wrong

[finite wind]

Ok fair

[split path]

they're called judge not baby judge

and yes they did attack us

[finite wind]

I'm calling them that cause that's what they are

[split path]

unlike gruz mother in the original game

[finite wind]

Nope, they run away

[split path]

you mean the maggot judges or what

[finite wind]

They only show up if you possess them or whatever with your needolin

[jade kindle]

Squirms

[finite wind]

Baby judges

[split path]

i mean hornet didn't?

is it for the journal?

yea ok it is

but yea you can choose to not kill them

not hornet's or the story line or any quest

[finite wind]

You can also choose to not kill the green prince but since hornet let's it happen I'm counting it as STH that she does

Because she can just not let you hit the friendly NPC's or leave pharloom

Heck, she even doesn't let you kill the baby broodmother

[split path]

well as a player, you can choose to walk away and not kill the green prince, i forgot to say

so yea not necessarily hornet's fault

[finite wind]

Yes it is for the reasons I said

[split path]

she can doesn't mean she would have

[finite wind]

She would have cause she did...

[split path]

WE did

[finite wind]

.

[split path]

it's our choice not her's

[finite wind]

.

[jade kindle]

Either way these things don’t make her a villain

[finite wind]

If she didn't want to, she wouldn't let us do it

[finite wind]

Grindle is not a villain but he is evil

[split path]

even after you've activted green prince's fight you can still die and walk away without actually dying

[finite wind]

Also, I just remembered

[muted lantern]

I don't really understand why hornet kills the squirms but not broodling. Like whats the difference to her. The squirms arent even haunted last i checked

[finite wind]

She kills innocent bugs to fill the huntress' quest

[storm ice]

same with the other dream bosses

[finite wind]

Because she's a massive hypocrite, that's it

[split path]

nevertheless she redeemed herself

[finite wind]

But she doesn't...

[finite wind]

Nope, you can always go back to kill the babies

[split path]

that's because WE decided

[finite wind]

Did you read what I said before?

[split path]

it doesn't affect the completion

[finite wind]

If hornet doesn't want us to do sth, she won't let us

But in this case, she wants

[split path]

tbf she was wandering around green prince's mind

but he attacked us first

THAT gave her the choice to attack back

[finite wind]

She won't let us hit sherma or the baby broodmother but yes the green prince and baby judges

[split path]

did sherma attack?

[jade kindle]

For gameplay purposes mostly

[finite wind]

When he told us to leave...

[split path]

alr ok fair point

[finite wind]

As you said, when we die we go back to the living world

So she does not even get hurt

[split path]

but i mean

kinda team cherry's fault

[finite wind]

And if someone invaded my house, I'd probably attack yeah

[finite wind]

That's another topic

[split path]

let us into an area without a boss would feel empty that's prolly why they ddi that

and it's like an easter egg

[storm ice]

ngl I guess palestage aren’t really a boss

[finite wind]

Also, I said it above, but we kill innocent bugs for the huntress

[split path]

ok but she entered beacuse she can

like how we entered beacuse we can

[icy token]

The Clover Dancers are barely harder than Cogwork Dancers

Also some bugs aren't exactly innocent

[storm ice]

ah yes a robot what used of the soul of a green prince

[split path]

green prince isn't innocence honestly

[finite wind]

A bug who doesn't mind killing innocent bugs herself and I'd assume her children also don't mind doing it

[icy token]

They should make it harder

[muted lantern]

This ones a bad point. for huntress we kill random enemies, 99% of which are haunted or otherwise hostile. and most are just wild beasts.

[split path]

just because his partner died he forgot abt verdania didn't he

[icy token]

Worthy of a heart boss

[finite wind]

We are helping her raise her kids who I don't think care much about who do they kill

In fact, the huntress would have attacked us if we didn't look strong

So we helped an evil being

[storm ice]

by that logic crust king khan isn’t worthy to be a heart boss

[icy token]

Exactly

[jade kindle]

Bro how old are u

[split path]

?

why

[finite wind]

?

[split path]

i think it's hard enough for some

def not for me but i think it's fair

[storm ice]

by @icy token logic is why

[split path]

green prince is a lil easy

[icy token]

But at least that guy acknowledged his weakness and get an army

[split path]

but to get to him you kinda have to explore the whole verdania

[storm ice]

true

[finite wind]

You're supposed to beat it on the first try or so

[muted lantern]

are we just grasping at straws atp

[finite wind]

That's why there's an insane gauntlet before him

[split path]

ur supposed to beat everything first try?

[finite wind]

I don't think we are

[split path]

lore accurate hornet

[finite wind]

I was talking about gameplay

[split path]

i dont think ur ever supposed to beat anything first try

[storm ice]

lore accurate hornet would say Shaw GUMARA and get hit 40 times

[split path]

btw what is "it"

[finite wind]

The final khan gaunlet

Where we fight him

[split path]

yes hornet is quite evil for killing green prince ig but she redeemed herself ok

[icy token]

Also I think Nyleth would work better as the secret boss

[storm ice]

shamans worst nightmare tbh

[finite wind]

Idk, by looking at her diary about him she does not seem remorseful at all

[split path]

she could've caused the silkpocalypse and just leave pharloom bc it's such a hassle to do so much

[icy token]

We all got ample foreshadowing for all of them except Nyleth

[split path]

not remorseful for green prince but for the whole pharloom

[split path]

as i've said, he is not innocent

[finite wind]

All 3 main act 3 bosses require silk soar

Green prince doesn't iirc

Not for entering his area at least

[split path]

just because his partner died he forgot abt verdania

[icy token]

We got the Karm statue

[split path]

he ditched the whole palce

[icy token]

CKK corpse

Green Prince talks to us

[finite wind]

No? Lol

The place died because the citadel didn't do their part

[split path]

why is he depressed in sinner's road then

[split path]

he's THEIR RULER, why is it citadel's fault?

[finite wind]

What is he supposed to do...

[split path]

at least do something?

[finite wind]

He doesn't have an army to combat the citadel

[jade kindle]

The citadel killed verdania

[finite wind]

He gave his partner...

[split path]

at least if he lost and verdania still died he isn't innocent

[split path]

so he's completely useless without his partner despite being a "ruler"

[finite wind]

@jade kindle why did you ask my age earlier?

[split path]

instead he SITS IN ONE SPOT

does NOTHING

[finite wind]

He doesn't have an army...

[split path]

just forget about it

[jade kindle]

Very odd interpretation of huntress

[split path]

verdania is just a lost cause then isn't it

[jade kindle]

“Evil bug” and it’s just a predator which is completely natural in that world

[split path]

(HE DID)

[finite wind]

I think he was imprisoned after verdania died

[split path]

it's just kinda ass

[split path]

he could've fight back

dude is a ruler?

a KING

[icy token]

Huntress only request us to get organs

For her kids

[split path]

like he didn't just lost to some randos in a random fight in a random area

[icy token]

To prevent them from killing her

[finite wind]

Not really, cause she could kill beast bugs but she preys on seemingly innocent bugs (like hornet if she didn't have a weapon) + conscious predators are not common. I can't think of any other one besides the huntress

[split path]

bugs eating bugs are lowk normal

[split path]

(honestly tho killing pilgrims also drops meat for that quest)

[icy token]

We can kill anything not Cog

It is our choice who we kill

[split path]

wdym?

we can kill cog too

duh

EVERYTHING

[finite wind]

But we're still helping a bug whose offspring will kill innocents if they can

[split path]

only things WE can't is things that hornet deems "innocent"

[icy token]

I mean for that quest

Cog don't drop organs

[split path]

kill their mother doesn't mean after they've grown up they'll kill innocent

it is an expected thing but 0 proofs so yea

[icy token]

It is their instinct

[finite wind]

We know they will

[jade kindle]

That is the nature of this world

[icy token]

When they grow up they can grow out of that instinct

[finite wind]

Based on the huntress they won't

[muted lantern]

I love that the lesser of two evils being portrayed by these arguments here is letting a mother be eaten alive by her own children

[jade kindle]

Ur over analyzing way too much imo

[split path]

n?

no?

[finite wind]

I don't think I am at all?

[icy token]

It is Huntress's choice

[finite wind]

We're helping a creature who kills innocents to bring more creatures like it to the world lol

It's really that simple

[icy token]

And in the end she did choose not to do anything to Hornet

We don't see her kill anyone else either

[jade kindle]

She’s not some villainous mass murderer she’s a simple predator

[finite wind]

Yeah because hornet would kill her

Her own words

[limpid summit]

This isn’t exactly equivalent ofc but is it evil for humans to preserve an endangered carnivorous species if it’s going to kill and eat animals instead of just die

[split path]

in real life there are spiders who would cannibalize on their mother (thus inspiring team cherry to create such characters) but when they're grown up they don't kill other spiders

[limpid summit]

It’s just to say that I don’t think Hornet is evil by enabling nature to run its course

[jade kindle]

This^^

[limpid summit]

There are other reasons why she is wvil

[finite wind]

Not comparable since animals irl are not conscious beings

[split path]

it is an instinct thing of that type of animal

in pharloom

[icy token]

And it is also Huntress's choice to let her be eaten for her brood

[split path]

so in order to protect herself, she asked hornet for a favor

[finite wind]

And if any animal irl would seek to hunt humans, yeah that animal would be dead 100%

[icy token]

She could just run away but she don't because she want her children to live

[jade kindle]

Ur applying human morals in a dangerous bug ecosystem world

[icy token]

So it was a sacrifice if she don't have any other alternative

[muted lantern]

Also we are basing all these assumptions of huntress being evil off her considering once in one scene out of desperation to kill another person to avoid being eaten alive. Like what

[finite wind]

They do have human morals...

[jade kindle]

But they also have to kill to survive

[limpid summit]

Yeah but they need to eat too

[icy token]

And Huntress ultimately did not act on it

[limpid summit]

“To eat…and be…”

Look what happens to runt if you don’t feed him

[split path]

so just to be clear here: every bugs gives meat that you can eat, however it is RIGHT to kill bugs that are stupid, like maggots or things that are deemed "food", while killing things that can talk is WRONG

[finite wind]

Nobody forced her to have cannibal children and it's again, all conscious choices. I would consider someone who would eat me if I couldn't defend myself evil yes

[finite wind]

Because we have a WEAPON

[icy token]

We can come there without a weapon and she still won't eat us

There's a sequence break that allowed us to do so

[limpid summit]

Well it’s not right to kill maggots

Hunter was being malicious when he said all that

He’s a little evil

[finite wind]

A sequence break...

[muted lantern]

None of them are cannibals. They arent eating eachother. Bugs are not all the same species

[finite wind]

If the kids are eating the mother they are cannibals lol

That's just the definition

[icy token]

It's because she allowed them to as sacrifice

[finite wind]

Again, nobody forced her to have cannibal children!

[muted lantern]

They are made cannibals out of instinct to save their lives only if we don't help them.

[jade kindle]

So she’s evil for following her instincts and trying to survive and reproduce like everything else in that world

[muted lantern]

Do you think she chose how her species works? what kind of arguement is this

[icy token]

Her species' instinct forced her to

And she did try to avoid them being cannibals by asking Hornet to deliver her food

[finite wind]

Yes because she is a conscious being, not an animal.

Also, if she and her species limited themselves to hunt animal-like bugs (therefore, inferior bugs) like we do with animals irl then that wouldn't mind. But since she's not limited to hunting conscious bugs (aka humans for us) she is evil

[icy token]

The children isn't though

And shee doesn't cannibalize anyone her children does

And those children are newborns

So it isn't like they can be teached

[finite wind]

Not relevant but she presumably did eat her mother and that's how she knows that will happen to her

[jade kindle]

In a world like that u hunt what u can get

[icy token]

How do we know her mother didn't do the same thing as she

Getting different food

[jade kindle]

Do u have no sense of nuance? Things aren’t black and white here

[finite wind]

That's like justifying hunting humans irl if we lived in a bad situation because you didn't say my comparison was wrong lol

[finite wind]

That's not an argument

[icy token]

It is the Citadel's fault for polluting her home, preventing enough bugs from living there so she can hunt and follow her life cycle

[jade kindle]

This game is not real life
These bugs are not humans

[split path]

yeaa

[jade kindle]

This is a different world

[finite wind]

If someone does STH bad to you, that doesn't mean you are allowed to do sty bad to someone else

This is pretty obvious

[muted lantern]

when they are fighting to survive in the wilderness she doesnt really get much choice in what she eats. She either gets what she can or starves to death. You are applying the morality of human beings who live in societies with ample resources to choose what they eat onto a pretty clearly primal nonhuman creature that hunts to survive.

[limpid summit]

Who knows if huntress and her species naturally eats sapient bugs anyway lol

She’s just like bring me organs

You can kill only animals to get the organs

[muted lantern]

Shes also in a desperate situation trying not to get eaten alive

[limpid summit]

Yesss... I kill, gladly, but only to feed my ssshhhell, and my brood to come.

[finite wind]

You don't need to go that far. You can just replace conscious bugs with human beings and you've got your typical dystopian teenage movie. Is hunting humans good because resources are low irl?

[finite wind]

She would have killed us if we didn't have a weapon

Why does this go over everyone 's head

[jade kindle]

In this world it is completely normal and needed to kill and hunt for food, but ur points are that irl it would be bad to do that

[muted lantern]

because she doesnt want to die, yeah she'll do whatever it takes in a desperate situation

[icy token]

She doesn't hunt sentient bugs specifically

[finite wind]

No it's not! No conscious bug does it besides the huntress

[muted lantern]

It wouldn't be humans hunting humans though, huntress is not the same species as any other bug we meet except maybe styx.

and also huntress is more like some fantastical monster that hunts to survive not a civilized being

she can talk sure, but that doesnt mean much in fantasy worlds

[finite wind]

The end does not justify the means...

[finite wind]

Does not matter!

[finite wind]

The only thing that separates humans from other animals is consciousness

[limpid summit]

All she’s trying to do is eat

Let her live

Or let her die

[icy token]

She have a food shortage

[limpid summit]

And let runt get the food

[icy token]

And some intrusive thoughts but she didn't act on it

[finite wind]

BECAUSE WE HAVE A WEAPON WE WOULD HAVE KILLED HER

At this point I'm just repeating myself

[icy token]

But if we entered there without a weapon she still won't kill us

[finite wind]

I am

[finite wind]

As far as I know, that's an oversight and the dialogue is the same

But if it's different show it to me please

[limpid summit]

Huntress isn’t evil because she isn’t driven by malice despite the fact that she might pursue sapient bugs

You might hold her acts in contempt

[jade kindle]

Yea she absolutely isn’t evil

[limpid summit]

But she’s not led by evil

[finite wind]

I can see that

[limpid summit]

She’s just trying to eat and feed her kids

But I mean like if you’re sapient and killing other sapient creatures I guess that’s not a great thing to do

Not a ton of options for her though

[finite wind]

Hornet however is 100% aware of her actions

And she doesn't need to feed babies

[jade kindle]

And that makes hornet evil?

[finite wind]

Nor has instinct

Yes

For all the reasons I said and I'm not repeating myself

In fact, hornet might be worse since she's willing to exchange 35 lives? I think? In exchange for 1

Granted she could just kill beast and it wouldn't make her evil in that sense

But the whole helping creatures that eat innocents stays

[limpid summit]

She has a soft spot towards mothers

And it’s not as if she knows haunted bugs can be saved

We don’t even know if they really can

[finite wind]

Also, you've all been saying that the huntress kills conscious beings for desperation or whatever

[split path]

broodmother

[limpid summit]

She lived through the infection

[finite wind]

Is there proof to that?

[limpid summit]

Well that’s her being racist

[finite wind]

That she regrets her actions?

[split path]

let's go

[limpid summit]

Yesss... I kill, gladly, but only to feed my ssshhhell, and my brood to come.

[split path]

dude

[finite wind]

That she wouldn't do it if pharloom wasn't decaying?

[limpid summit]

She doesn’t “regret” killing

But only because it lets her and her family live

[finite wind]

Right

[split path]

hornet obviously has her ups and down cause not everyone is perfect, she did save the world tho so yea she's def not a villain, is only SOMEWHAT evil towards minorities and gays

[finite wind]

So the whole desperation argument doesn't hold much

[finite wind]

Being a villain and evil are completely different things

Being a villain is a role in a story while being evil is rooted in the moral compass

[split path]

not completely, they're kinda the same idea

[finite wind]

As I said, grindle is evil whilst not being a villian

[split path]

evil, but definitely not the most evil

cause i didn't say she wasn't evil

[jade kindle]

She isn’t

Morally questionable at most

[split path]

so even if villain and evil doesn't mean the same thing, it doesn't affect my argument one bit

[jade kindle]

Cause helping is clearly her biggest goal

[split path]

YES that's what im saying, but that is still somewhat evil

well, would you call a racist animal lover an evil person or a good person?

[finite wind]

Anyways, I'll conclude by saying that the most evil characters in the game are the weavers, goodnight

[split path]

um actually nein

(:

conductors are more evil

if a system is evil would you call the people who created the system evil or the people who did the evil deeds evil

[jade kindle]

She helps several bugs, saves an entire kingdom from centuries of suffering, goes down the abyss twice so that the lands can finally be free, but she helps a spider mother so she’s evil??

[split path]

weavers created the system

while conductors shat on bilewater, created UNDERWORKS, bla bla bla

[finite wind]

Related funny image I just found

[split path]

hornet did that to end his pain

YES

SO HE COULD CONNECT WITH HIS PARTNER IN THE OTHERWORLD

PERFECT

BRILLIANT ARGUMENT

unless there is proof hornet doesn't believe in the world of the dead

which is highly unlikely, because in this world gods exist and you can literally interact with them so yea

[finite wind]

Being serious for a second, I do think they need to change the whole interaction of hornet and green prince in verdania and in her diary, it just makes her look bad

They won't but it's kind of an odd sequence

[jade kindle]

The 4th hearts only there for u to do cause tc knew it’d be dumb to be locked out of an entire boss/area after the first 3

[finite wind]

The whole baby judges and whatever else it's irrelevant who cares

[dusky bay]

The first door not the judge one

[dusky bay]

The door near bone bottom

[icy token]

He turns back and go up the elevator

Or he goes through the upper path after Hornet cleared out the arena

[vague onyx]

hi]

[pastel remnant]

Guys

Am I allowed to talk about silksong endings here without marking as spoiler

dam i can't send images here

[craggy smelt]

its cool, there's no spoiler restriction

[pastel remnant]

I was about to ask a specific ending question but

Js saw on youtube that it was scrapped

how unfortunate

[crimson patio]

The fact that there’s an interaction for killing Karmelita as the last heart and not Green Prince even though Karmelita was closer to death than him (that is not to say mercy killing should be something some random person can just carry out)

[icy token]

It might be because there's nobody left to remember Green Prine

*Prince

[primal ruin]

Just for the fun, who would win in a 1v1, Thanos with every stone or the knight/shade lord from silksong?

[dreamy onyx]

Thanos

[trail wagon]

guys if we don't know who are hornets mates.. it could be anyone.. it could you or it could be..me

[azure torrent]

Probably Thanos
But at the same time we don't know much about the properties of void, there's a chance it could just absorb the stones' powers

[crystal marsh]

many of the entries should be changed because they damage her character

[finite wind]

which ones do you think should also be changed?

[crystal marsh]

example: the one where she ||expresses a desire to kill slaves which she would feel no remorse over||

[finite wind]

specifically?}

[golden ember]

she's talking about the slab enemy entries i think

[twin dragon]

yup

[twin dragon]

That's an exception not the norm

I get what TC tried to express here but they went too far

[twin dragon]

Gp jumped hornet after she helped him remember his lover somewhat

[twin dragon]

Hornet isn't particularly evil but she's done some bad shit

[mystic glen]

Are theories allowed?

[low oracle]

If they are actual theories, they are absolutely fit for this channel. Just so long as they aren't weird bs like Zote being a vessel.
Basically anything that has grounds or implications within the game.

[crystal marsh]

i mean she's fucking unhinged

[mystic glen]

I have a theory that regards lifeblood....
WITH EVIDENCE

[low oracle]

Then it isn't a theory though. Anyway, what is it?

[mystic glen]

Believe me
I gathered interesting things regarding lifeblood
That was hidden in plane sight 🤯

[potent blaze]

plain*

[tawdry flare]

You found Plasmified Joni?

[sturdy hedge]

ok now I'm interested since that's going to be Sea of Sorrow's focus

[mystic glen]

A question:
If a newcomer played hollow knight and saw the infection....
What will be his thoughts about the source of the infection

[tawdry flare]

orange juice

[mystic glen]

What type of entity you imagined in your first play through (you didn't know anything about hollow knight)

[tawdry flare]

It’s been like six or seven years I don’t remember

[potent blaze]

Prolly a mad scientist

[mystic glen]

If the infection is caused by the Entity of light and dreams (The Radiance)
Than....

WHY Not the lifeblood caused by the roots of life and dreams.....
THE LIFE BLOOD ROOTS THEORY

[sturdy hedge]

I thought of it as a curse that spread as orange goo

[potent blaze]

Isnt lifeblood controlled by that big fella in the abyss

[sturdy hedge]

lifeblood is also in both games and is completely unaffected by their respective issues

[mystic glen]

Roots: type of entities that are connected to plants ☘️/fungus
Examples like white lady,grey root,isma, and nylath

[tawdry flare]

We have no idea what that is, or where Lifeblood originates from

[sturdy hedge]

yea

its still a big mystery

[potent blaze]

All we know is that its outlawed by the pale king and it has consequences similar to the infection as seen in act 3 wormways

[sturdy hedge]

makes me wonder if it has the capabilites to spread throughout all of Pharloom...

[tawdry flare]

Lifeblood seems to only “infect” if you overdose on it

[potent blaze]

Considering how it is sort of an alien substance to pharloom (brought by zylotols master from pharloom bay) its safe to assume it could definitely do that

[sturdy hedge]

Hornet isn't "infected" when stabbing herself with the phial though.

[potent blaze]

Also its kinda weird how void tendeils dont stretch into plasmified wormways

[sturdy hedge]

could it repel the void?

[low oracle]

Lifeblood is pretty tame, there's just some fuckass guy abusing the shit out of it. Who would have thought that something would happen?

[mystic glen]

The first section: Infection is caused by overdose
The biological parts of a bug when exposed to a certain power to extreme amounts
This power start to fuse and corrupt there cells, causing a cancer_like state
This thing is seen only in:
The radiance infection
The lifeblood
The bilewater toxicity
All of them share the same damaged state, the overbolline balloon bodies,and instability

[tawdry flare]

Well yeah she’s a demigod, she’s got greater resilience. But also yes she is, Eva freaks out when you visit her while Lifeblood maxxing iirc

[sturdy hedge]

watch sea of sorrow be lifeblood as an infection instead of the haunting/void

[sturdy hedge]

wait now I gotta go test that

[potent blaze]

I mean its gotta release first tho... sea of sorrow tomorrow amirite

[tawdry flare]

It might be related to the void but the mainstream media doesn’t like it when I say that

[tawdry flare]

"Come no closer! I sense the forbidden blood coursing through you, that which grows and reshapes the world in its own vulgar image.

Whether it was imbibed willingly or not, none shall be allowed into this chamber while so afflicted. Begone!"

[sturdy hedge]

I am WAITING

[sturdy hedge]

Actually could be possible, with the thing in the abyss relating to it

and the lifeblood door

[tawdry flare]

Lifeblood can seep into dreams if that’s what you mean

[sturdy hedge]

I just realized that aside from the alchemist and zango, we haven't actually seen a bug inject themselves with lifeblood (not counting those two because who knows what else they did) the only bug who we've seen do that is Hornet, and even she isn't immune to the consequences. Would a normal bug just be completely overwhemled by a single dose? Ok now I have a hundred questions can I wait for sea of sorrow faster

[tawdry flare]

Joni presumably consumed a lot of lifeblood

[sturdy hedge]

yeah but it's not clear how much "a lot" is. Can they use it at all or will they just immediately suffer because of it

[mystic glen]

The Entity behind it does have a dream room in the pantheon

Is there roots going out of joni ?

[tawdry flare]

“The Entity behind it”?

[eternal timber]

maybe, but it's likely it reverts back to act 1 and 2 versions rather than act 3's

[tawdry flare]

I know you’re talking about the Lifeblood Beast but what does this mean specifically

[eternal timber]

clearly, the void seems to ubercharge lifeblood, somehow

[mystic glen]

Is there roots going out of Joni?

[tawdry flare]

Don’t say that too loud or they’ll take you out

[tawdry flare]

Indiscernible/No

[mystic glen]

Can you notice the lifeblood trees? 🌴

[tawdry flare]

I do not see a single tree

[mystic glen]

Where the three butterflies stands at ?

[tawdry flare]

The vines?

[mystic glen]

Yes...
Do you know an entity that have similar vines?

[tawdry flare]

the radiance

[mystic glen]

Not..
Another one

[tawdry flare]

Not Greyroot or the White Lady if that’s what you’re implying

[mystic glen]

Well...
I noticed a similarity..

I don't think that the white lady has anything even remotely related....
But...

A being similar to her (a root) could easily be the source of life blood
White lady isn't the only one in her kind

[sturdy hedge]

there are no roots that are even remotely blue though

Greyroot's basically a parasite and the white lady is a pale being

[twin dragon]

Yeah but her intentions nor most of her actions arent evil

[flat heart]

who the fuck said she's evil?

[jade kindle]

Someone was arguing that she was yesterday

U can scroll up if u want I don’t wanna revive it

[sturdy hedge]

Is there a lore explanation as to why Hornet uses a needle? As far as I know, most bugs in Hallownest use nails, and bugs in Pharloom use pins, other than Hornet I can’t think of a single one that uses a needle? (Unless Vespa did? It’s not clear the weapon she’s using in the red memory)

[jade kindle]

For utilizing silk is my guess

Like a sewing needle

[craggy smelt]

it's a hive made weapon, it was probably custom made for her

[edgy nebula]

to better use her silk and is probably a traditional weaver weapon

[limpid summit]

Why aren’t any weavers in Weavenest Herrah entombed

[craggy smelt]

incorporating hive stinger design with weaver silk skills

[edgy nebula]

theyre stupid background weavers they dont deserve names

oh

i misread that

they probably died from the infection

[jade kindle]

The weaver charm in hk says they ran back to their homeland but tc did write that years before Silksongs lore was fully developed

[sturdy hedge]

Ohh I think so actually since the “swords” first sinner throws at you are needle-shaped after falling to the ground after some attacks or before the fight starts

[amber flare]

how come some weavers turn into movement abilities for Hornet while others turn into silk skills. Do they choose what skill to gift to Hornet?

And also, we bind the silks skill pale nails from GMS’s arm, yet she never uses it during her fight with us

[sturdy knot]

Its wich one they mastered in their life

She does, the weapons that fly all around the arena

[sturdy hedge]

It’s her pins. Only difference is Hornet doesn’t have any so she puts her silk in the form of them instead

[flat heart]

wait how is silk connected to soul again

[gentle aspen]

weavers use needles

hers is a hallownestian version of the pharloom shit

if you wanna see someone using pharloom’s needles look at first sinner

[sturdy hedge]

It’s soul in the form of a thread

[viscid ridge]

Silk is just soul infused thread

[viscid ridge]

Needles seems to be a weaver weapon, we see both First Sinner, and GMS use needles. Pharlooms needles seems to be used mostly as javelins or piercing weapons, while Hallownests Nails are slashing.

Hornets Needle is a fusion between Pharloom's needles and Hallownest's nails. We see she is able to use it as a sword(nail), aswell as a javelin. This is why the description mentions that her needle is perfectly balanced for combat, and the weapon is specifically made for her.

[low oracle]

Not infused, just literally soul spun to thread.

[viscid ridge]

The one thing i think team cherry should change for consistency, is Pale Nails, should be turned to 'Pale Needles', because nails are very out of place for pharloom which mainly uses pins and needles of various degrees

[low oracle]

Interestingly enough, the Pale Nails are used by clawmaidens. Just one at a time, but that's still impressive for a machine.

[viscid ridge]

Yeah

[low oracle]

Pale Nails may be GMS's literal nails, the things most humans have at their fingertips.

Though the only connection is her hand/arm being bound.

[viscid ridge]

I doubt it, its obviously supposed to be her floating needles.

I think if it really was refering to her 'nails', it would have been called Pale Claws or something

[low oracle]

Since we see Clawmaidens use it, perhaps it is just something Weavers made. The Clawmaidens were the earliest automatons, their core even being out of silk. So it isn't out of the question that the Weavers were around to build them alongside the conductors.

Hornet binding the limb of the HB of silk may just have released the hidden potential to use this Weaver skill.

[viscid ridge]

I think that attack is just a giant spike of silk, i don't personally think it has anything to do with the pale nails. It doesn't even have a handle of any sort like the nails do.

[low oracle]

Anyway, the Citadel's Weapons/tools seem to be primarily scissors and pins. There are the morticians and Silk Snippers with their literal scissors, but there are also the Sentinels with their Scissor-Blades.

Pins take up basically every form imaginable. They are darts, the fencing sword, spears, javelins, and whatever else.

[low oracle]

Well yeah, but how does that relate to my reply?

[viscid ridge]

Yeah, Long pins, short pins, throwing pins i made a list somewhere of all the variety of pins in pharloom

We even see they use weapons that look like hairpins

[low oracle]

Kinda interesting though that GMS uses scissor blades.

[viscid ridge]

Im just saying those 2 attacks i think aren't comparable, the rest is fine

[low oracle]

Ah, okay.

[viscid ridge]

I think those things she uses are needles, im not sure whats up with the notch in the middle. I think its just stylized needles. I dont think that notch in the middle of them makes them scissor blades

[heavy gyro]

They're called talons in the description, so they are literally nails

[eternal gazelle]

they're scissors

the notch is where they connect

[low oracle]

They look the exact same as Scissor Blades if I remember right.

[eternal gazelle]

the shape also implies they're only bladed on one side and not both

[low oracle]

Hence scissor blades.

[viscid ridge]

I know, but we never see them connect, and second sentinels scissor blades dont have notches, so i think this just a case of stylistic choice

[viscid ridge]

The ones from the whiteward?

[low oracle]

No, the weapons the Sentinels wield.

[eternal gazelle]

it's a stylistic choice that makes them more similar to scissors than sentinel's weapons, which are scissors

[viscid ridge]

Yeah in that case its a no, the sentinals scissors dont look like those.

[midnight reef]

I mean, didn't...

[viscid ridge]

?

[midnight reef]

Damn I forgot their name

Soul warrior uses a "pinblade" in Hollow Knight

[viscid ridge]

I think so lemme check

The one thats more like a rapier

[midnight reef]

So are Pharlooms pins

Just drop the hand guard

Just because a swords is more often seen in one area than another doesn't mean it doesn't exist

Though it'd be cool to see some proper nail users in Pharloom

[eternal gazelle]

pale nails exists and it's modeled after the clawmaidens' attacks, but there's nothing else that really fits the bill

[midnight reef]

Yeah

[eternal gazelle]

maybe nails are just easier to conjure than pins or needles

[midnight reef]

Or it's just what Hornet choses to form the silk into

[eternal gazelle]

and clawmaidens, which are directly controlled by Silk

First Sinner's needles and GMS's scissor blades aren't conjured though, they're controlled telekinetically

this definitely doesn't actually mean anything but we can pretend it does

[midnight reef]

Yeah

Though for both I always assumed the blades were controlled by unseen silk strands

The fights would be incredibly messy if you could see them, lol

[eternal gazelle]

probably, I'm using telekinses is a poetic sense and not literally

[midnight reef]

Ye

[uncut beacon]

You guys wanna know the TRUE lore abt silksong?

(Source is trust me btw)

[unreal estuary]

sure

[heavy otter]

Yeah

[slate bough]

Still waiting for the true lore

[viscid ridge]

This is legitimately horrifying what the fuck

I have a sneaking suspicion that the weapons that the Hive uses are also called pins, because i legitimately dont know what else they would be called. Maybe something more like stingers or something?

Thats a cool name for a weapon weilded by bees

Most bugs that fight with pins dont really use the hook part for silk, its only a few of the citidel bugs that do. Needles work much better with silk, but pins just seem to be like a tiny little rapier or spear for bugs to use.

But based on the pinstress dialogue the pins predated the citidel, before it became the main weapon of pharloom

[random aspen]

is there a lore reason why nobody uses a hammer

[viscid ridge]

A few bugs use hammers i think

[random aspen]

shit nevermind

[viscid ridge]

Or more like bludgeoning weapons

[random aspen]

not hammery enough

false knight uses a macebug on a stick

[viscid ridge]

Maybe in another kingdom hammers are more prevalent.

It does look like the main weapon for sea of sorrows are going to be hooks.

[glad lake]

abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz

[marble oasis]

Do you guys think PK could have given Silk a real child

[pale grove]

have yall found new lore

[gentle aspen]

explode

And no I don’t think so

considering weavers are made similar to GMS and they have issues with birthing the progenitor of a form of soul might be totally unable

[marble oasis]

Well that’s why I ask, it was almost impossible for Weavers to conceive but PK did it

[muted lantern]

considering shes entirely silk i doubt she can have kids normally

[gentle aspen]

I don’t think she’s like, biological enough to do so

[marble oasis]

You’re forgetting that he the goat

[edgy nebula]

i mean, there's nothing stating silk would have trouble making a child with another hb

she elevates pharlids for worship and makes lace and phantom during her sleep presumably so we dont have any confirmation of anything

[marble oasis]

Yeah I feel like it’s analogous to Pharloom Weavers making Eva as their only option for a child since there was no one to breed with

[viscid ridge]

I doubt she would accept any child she didn't have a hand in making

[marble oasis]

Not literally given idiot

[viscid ridge]

How do you mean then?

Like if she mated with pale king?

[marble oasis]

Yes

[viscid ridge]

Probably, i mean we see pk have children with a tree

So i think anything goes 🤣

[marble oasis]

Sorry this was a little harsh but it’s a very common euphemism

Like how Hornet was “Pale gift to the nest”

[viscid ridge]

Yeah that was rude so i just ignored it

[rustic junco]

That makes way for another question

what if white lady was in Pharloom (as god ruler) where GMS was?

[chrome lintel]

guys is there a way to know if the characters of hollow knight died of age at the time of silksong?

[muted lantern]

no

we don't know how long its been or their lifespan

[marble oasis]

One can assume it’s been generations since Hornet’s had several mates who died

And it’s doubtful she was going around finding mates while there was a Hallownest corpse to guard

[muted lantern]

i mean she definitely could have.

[marble oasis]

She was too busy to get busy

[muted lantern]

I imagine having partners helped her keep herself from going nuts from centuries of isolation.

[marble oasis]

It can’t have been centuries

Ogrim is still alive and he’s not that special

[muted lantern]

I mean bugs have different lifespans. Emilitia is around from before hallownests fall and doesnt seem that old while elderbug seems to not have been around until after hallownests fall.

[marble oasis]

The bug called Eternal Emilitia has remarkable longevity
You don’t say

[muted lantern]

Yeah, as i said, bugs have different lifespans. Clearly emilitias is a lot longer. Ogrims is too.

Again, elderbug speaks of hallownest as if it wasn't around in his lifetime.

and he seems older than ogrim

but clearly ogrims older

[marble oasis]

Elderbug is a common bug so it makes sense he doesn’t have the lifespan of Ogrim