sk-lore

[dreamy onyx]

since she asks hornet to witness it

[craggy smelt]

yeah, that's also weird - I think that by the time Hornet has come, she's only still in her cocoon by choice

Hornet mentions that it's protective, maybe she's building up her strength

[dreamy onyx]

honestly that would explain a lot

[craggy smelt]

she's already 'awake' enough to spread the Haunting everywhere, but that's different from fullon emergence

I guess even a sleeping god can accomplish a lot

[dreamy onyx]

also it makes more sense if she exited her coccoon to create lace and phantom

[craggy smelt]

maybe, she can exert some kind of power within it - maybe she had to 'rest' between silkborn

anyway, my main contention with Atla is that it seems implausible that she would be telling bugs that the Weavers weren't divine

Atla's Weavenest is where all the Citadel stuff was built, and the Citadel runs on pilgrims

it doesn't make sense for Atla to set up the Citadel system to run on pilgrim power, and then go running around telling pilgrims the Weavers weren't divine and shouldn't be obeyed

she was pissed off at Silk for lying about the Weavers origins, but it doesn't follow that she would therefore want to reveal those origins to the bugs the Weavers were exploiting, especially if she masterminded their exploitation in the first place

it seems more plausible to me that Silk took over and targeted Atla as like public enemy number 1 - the first rebel against her, an apostate who turned against her god, the first sinner

[autumn umbra]

ok so I'm a bit confused
the reason why the Weavers abandoned GMS was because they discovered they weren't divine...? as in because they were just pharlids?
I've never thought that's the case. for me the First Sinner was locked up by her sisters the moment she tried to preach that. and that was after they had betrayed GMS
I think it's reason enough for the Weavers to betray their mother that they inherited that Pale desire to rule. they didn't want to keep playing the song so they became the new goddesses and made others do it for them

[primal terrace]

so the cogwork dancers are an attempt to duplicate the powerful clover dancers power cuz they seem very similar, also green guy takes dead cogwork dancer with him to verdania. (I'm new here)

[autumn umbra]

yup!!
also the cogwork dancers literally have the soul of green guy's lover in them. we know the Citadel put the soul of bugs into automatons

[primal terrace]

ohhh ty

[autumn umbra]

ofc^^)

[heavy gyro]

But first sinner is the only weaver who says "accursed kingdom" rather than "haunted kingdom", implying she was imprisoned before the haunting and never got contact with the outside world

[pallid blade]

Why was she imprisoned if she didn’t start the Haunting then?

[fickle basin]

She apparently did some sin of apostaty accoring to the wiki

[spring merlin]

Then why is she called “first” sinner?

The citadel religion (so all the sin and belief) was created by the weavers so why would she be called that if the haunting was much time after the citadels founding

Also from what I remember the silk binding used for her cage is only used in purely weaver made places so I don’t really see how would the citadel caste use them

[limpid summit]

This is the truth

[gentle aspen]

This and GMS was a bad mother

[limpid summit]

This low, her gaze escaped.
Prepare, sisters. Weave hope anew. That we might break free this accursed web born of our naive foundation

The accursed web is service to GMS, the naive foundation is their birth

Some weavers couldn’t take it anymore and fled and the others decided to strike back

[low oracle]

Nope, that would not be possible in any way ever.

1). GMS is imprisoned until Hornet reaches her, which is the time she awakens

2). First Sinner was imprisoned before the slab existed. The slab existed before the haunting.

3). GMS wouldn't imprison any Weaver, she would bind them to herself and gain more power.

4). Haunted bugs can't create silk runed chains, neither are they powerful enough to take on a true weaver.

[limpid summit]

The Pharlid revelation doesn’t not make sense during GMS times entirely, but it makes sense as a revelation that would have rocked the Weavers and challenged their Mandate of Heaven

[low oracle]

The pharlid revelation isn't even necessarily something only FS experienced. Correlation isn't necessarily causation, and it could be that FS is just the only Weaver where we see it.

[limpid summit]

This is true

“History held full in mind” she was probably at least one to discover it though

If we believe she was Atla

[low oracle]

I do think though that FS was at least one of the Weavers that started the revolution, not necessarily THE one though. Wether she was Atla or not, what we know is that the Weavers revoluted against GMS before FS or Widow were imprisoned/punished, hence we can believe they were imprisoned/punished by the Weavers (and somewhat the Conductors for FS).

[limpid summit]

True

[low oracle]

I don't believe it, but there are general points that could be understood as such, which I respect.
One of which being that the Atla effigy is found in the Slab, and that First Sinner is implied to be one of the eldest Weavers, given she is speculated to have invented Rune Rage.

[limpid summit]

I do believe it (but we don’t have to jockey about that) and it seems like Weavenest Atla was where stuff got done

I don’t think this was one that would go badly for them

That would disprove what they say

The burden of rule has passed but they still see it as a burden nonetheless

It isn’t pretty

[low oracle]

The Far Fields Weavenest has the map they used to flee. I think each Weavenest had a different purpose, like the Silkshot one being used to create a weapon.

The main ones were definitely Atla and Far Fields one though.

[limpid summit]

So they’re content with the citadel working forever, but if a Weaver messiah could come along and actually kill GMS, freeing the current rulers from their yoke, that works too

[limpid summit]

This final point is also pretty good

They say Hornet is “sensed strong with Silk” but I think this is just to juxtapose her strength with her nature as a non-full Weaver

GMS is mostly picking off infirm Weaver descendants

And FS is stronger than HK Hornet

No way she would have captured her

[low oracle]

Exactly, as a comparison to the other Weaver descendants. We know that no full Weaver was captured ever (choral commandments), and that Hornet was the closest descendant, being only half-Weaver.

Additionally, Widow is already severely weaker with her own silk bound useless, yet she still haunts an entire town herself. That is such a grand feat, especially when remembering the background showing Bellhart to be huge.

While no veiled bugs we see tried attacking Widow, it is safe to say that Bellhart's residents where powerless against her. Even Reed, who wields a weapon regardless of its purpose, is just simply snatched up before he can do anything.

[limpid summit]

The most powerful bug we see in a Chamber is a regular Reed

FS could totally handle those and like even if GMS sent Clawmaidens or Choir Clappers somehow FS would win

[low oracle]

Reed is the pond catcher of Bellhart by the way, in case it isn't clear.

The most powerfull veiled bugs are Grand Reeds, Choir Clappers and the Sentinels.
They all serve as guards though.

[limpid summit]

No yeah yeah

[low oracle]

Choir Clappers wouldn't even do anything, due to their heavy armor. They are stronger than most, at the cost of being stationed and not good at travelling great distances.

[limpid summit]

There’s no way GMS sent a Sentinel (though she should have)

I’m not sure if she can actually manipulate them

You need the three-piece heart

Anyway yeah

FS was likely imprisoned during Weaver times regardless of when the revelation occurred

[low oracle]

An interesting thing I've noticed is the fact that Clawmaidens use silk skills, specifically a single pale nail.
They are also described as the earliest automatons, so I think it is possible they were created with the help of the Weavers. At least that would give us the two explanations for:
-Why their core strung with silk, or at least powered by it
-Why they have access to silk skills

In case anyone wants to say GMS could have made them, fuck no. She literally has nothing to do with the automatons.

[low oracle]

The threepiece heart is used instead of simple silk (and possibly silkflies though I doubt that), so she has no power over them.

[solid vine]

COGWORK!!! IS COGWORK SO HARD TO SAY?!?!?!

[gentle aspen]

it is not that serious dude

[low oracle]

Well it isn't generally the same technology as the rest of the automatons, as it doesn't utilize silk or silkflies.

I still think there is a silkfly in its head, due to the following reasons:
-White glowing eyes, coming from silkflies in other automatons
-Theory that pintress souls were used to make silkflies for the sentinels, which is just a fun theory

Architect also probably runs on a cogheart, since she isn't affected by the haunting or the voiding. However she certainly uses a silkfly, as seen when returning to her empty shell, a silkfly is resting on it.

[low oracle]

Clockwork is the ultimate ragebait, should've used that instead.

[solid vine]

It would've been epic ragebait yes.

3 piece? Clockwork? Silkflies? Awww, look who can't say Cogwork.

[autumn umbra]

what I don't get is why there are Choral Commandments talking about getting Weavers. the Citadel was searching for them? or was it GMS? bc if it was her what was the point of the bureaucracy having the Haunting

[gentle aspen]

both

[solid vine]

Well at least there were proper records of it.

[gentle aspen]

gms effectively controlled the citadel by the time those commandments in the cradle were written

[autumn umbra]

I thought pre-Haunting Citadel respected the Weavers. and that the Conductors and the other high castes still deferred to them. why would they go hunt them

[low oracle]

They respected them and only started hunting them after the haunting began.

[low oracle]

The haunting does two things: Make bugs do what they always did and make them follow the orders of GMS's thoughts and emotions.
She wanted the Weavers, so they set out to do so. However they always have written reports, so why stop now?

[autumn umbra]

I guess the Haunting at the beginning was very subtle and maybe that's why GMS had to use existing systems to do the things she wanted? hence the bureaucracy? idk

[autumn umbra]

yeah that also makes sense

[low oracle]

The bureaucracy is effectively the same as the choir singing. No point in doing so, but after all, why not? They always did it.

[autumn umbra]

yeah

[limpid summit]

Yeah this is probably the case

[low oracle]

Imma go now, bye!

[autumn umbra]

bye bye!

[limpid summit]

They’re directly strung up and it was the Conductors/Architects who started using silkflies for cogworks

They also have a different aesthetic

Adios

[primal terrace]

The mt fay's cold climate is the reason the great River in old sands of karak froze and turned into... well, the sands of karak. Causing the tribe to perish of thirst or sum.

The river originated in Mt fay and flowed down into the sand of karak, as we can see on the map that Mt fay is right above the sands of karak.

Also the glory of pharloom mood has it so uhhh... ||skibidi||

[solid vine]

No

Stop it

[primal terrace]

?

[solid vine]

We left that in 2024

[primal terrace]

wdym brodie

[solid vine]

No, long before then

[primal terrace]

silksong came in2025

[solid vine]

Skibidi?

[primal terrace]

ohhhh

well hows the lore ignore that

[solid vine]

Much better.

[primal terrace]

I thought yu meant the lore had an issue

[solid vine]

I like this theory

[primal terrace]

I thought os this while in a shower

the next day i found this exact theory on yt

[solid vine]

I'm not a Silksong expert per say. But this is elite ball knowledge.

[primal terrace]

𝕥𝕪

[solid vine]

You're welcome 😊

[primal terrace]

Want icecream?

uhh idea

grandmommy silk created phantom cuz she was bored and wanted music (phantom plays the piano🎹🎹)

[quiet flare]

Was phantom and lace created after or before GMS imprisonment?

[frosty gate]

Unclear but I have my guesses

[fresh badger]

Everyone says they're post-citadel aka post-gms sleepy

[sinful nimbus]

Everyone -1

[fresh badger]

Waw

[frosty gate]

Although they're for rule of cool rather than any sort of proven logic

[frosty gate]

-2, I don't agreet with that

[sinful nimbus]

GMS being able to create children while incapacitated would be goofy unless it was like after the haunting ig

[frosty gate]

She should've been made before GMS got slept

I personally like to think Phantom was the first Child GMS made

And that the Weavers don't acknowledge her

Lace should have been made at the start of the Haunting

Before that makes no sense to me

[edgy nebula]

gms created lace after the haunting and it’s actually a scrapped time travel plot (joke)

[frosty gate]

Deleted before Trickster nukes my ass

[quiet flare]

And this is curious, because why is she discarding the Citadel's dirt? Who told her or obliged her to do that?

Was it the conductors? Or maybe someone else had this role and she just took it

[frosty gate]

For me this is the biggest piece of dogshit about Phantom because for me it feels so weird

In my head, it should've been the Weavers, they would be the only one with enough "power" to tell Phantom to fuck off and work

But the Exhaust Organ doesn't look like something made by the Weavers

So unless it was made very late into Weaver rule and they forced Phantom to work

It had to be the Conductors

If it was indeed the Conductors, the explanation that I give myself to sleep at night is that they were extorting her into working

"You need Silk to live, we got Silk to give you, but you gotta work"

So with no option left, she agreed

But this is literally all speculation and we have little to no lore on Phantom

Team Cherry will rue the day they executed Phantom so badly

Except Jack, he's alright

[primal terrace]

hows my lore drop tho :(

:

:

[livid trout]

why do void attacks still deal damage when we have everbloom?

[worldly dock]

pretty sure void can get solid and hurt hornet, but with the everbloom it doesn't take silk and you can jump in void pools

[sand pewter]

Why does garmond get lost

Like voided

[quiet flare]

Like everyone else, it's just the haunting but with void, which is much worse

And something that bothers me is that Hornet can save Lace from the void but not Garmond

[frosty gate]

Lace is a special case really

[frosty gate]

He had silk in his body all this time, he just never got Haunted because he had a strong mind. But fighitng with the void basically weakened him and it took over

[sand pewter]

Sadge

Rip garmond

[frosty gate]

Lace is special because she's made of Silk

So all Hornet did was get the void off her really

[tardy compass]

I never played silksong or hollow knight but in the delicate flower quest doesn't the everbloom evaporate even at the slightest hit of enemies but in silksong the flower can survive for so long in the abyss??

[frosty gate]

So far there is no proper explanation as to why this is the case, or why did Ze'mer have an infinite supply of them, so we just attribute that to being a retcon

Retconsong strikes again

[limpid summit]

Maybe Hornet holds it closer

If not for the random red memory prompt calling it fragile it wouldn’t even matter

[tardy compass]

I dont fully know the lore but isnt the knight made of void? Maybe the presence of void in the knight weakens the everbloom but hornet is not void so it survives for longer

[limpid summit]

It could have just been a stronger version of the flower

[sturdy knot]

It reviced buffs cuz there are only so many great hearts in pharloom

[tardy compass]

I hope zoatboat answers most of these retcons 💔

[tawdry flare]

team cherry where is sea of sorrows

[twin dragon]

did i get ghost pinged

[quartz grail]

Y’all the Bell Beast is a Grom.

[graceful grail]

True, because dreams are stronger than reality in the HKU

[quartz grail]

Zemer’s flowers are just really old so they are fragile.

[sturdy knot]

I have a question, where were the envoys taking hornet in the opening sequence? It looks like they are heading to shellwood, I don’t believe that they where heading up through wisp thicket, and the exhaust organ is on the other end of the citidel

[limpid summit]

They were taking her to the Cradle

[edgy nebula]

my guess is they were either taking her through the steps, or tried travelling through the bellway

[limpid summit]

The broken bridge to blasted steps is the one they were headed across right

[edgy nebula]

to get to the cradle of course

yeah

[limpid summit]

Would it have been cool if bell eater was teased earlier

It’s like a mythical beast

[spark valve]

yeah idk why it's not mentioned somewhere

[limpid summit]

The whole bell motif could do with some fleshing

[edgy nebula]

maybe it was yet another evil retcon

[sturdy knot]

But they already passed the entrance to the steps

[sturdy knot]

Where else? The question is how they where going to get there

The bell beast is also locked up in the marrow at the time

[kindred ingot]

what's the topic here?

[sturdy knot]

This

[kindred ingot]

they were taking her to the Cradle from Blasted Steps

[sturdy knot]

They had left the blasted steps, look at the map of pharloom

[kindred ingot]

yeah I just noticed

weird

they were probably going to Bellhart to travel through the Bellway or smth

[sturdy knot]

Idk if the envoys would use the bellways, as the bellways are to small for rune cage + large insect to carry, so they would have to manually climb to the grand bellway

They are just large enough for hornet and bell beast

[craggy smelt]

She was the first Weaver to rebel against Silk. That was actual sin against an actual god. Hence, the first true sinner. The Citadel's false religion is probably of little concern to Silk.

[craggy smelt]

The Citadel uses Runecages and runic magic, and the Citadel had Weavers working for it under Silk (Widow), and Silk herself has influence beyond her cocoon (the Haunting, the Silkborn, etc.)
The cage is covered in the gilded filigree of the Citadel post-Weaver era, the time of the Conductors that eventually fell to Silk. It even resembles a larger version of the cages used on Weavers found in the Cradle.

[craggy smelt]

It is entirely possible, in every way, for all time.

1. GMS is actively controlling the Haunting long before Hornet shows up, and sending Citadel troops to capture Weavers. She also had Weavers submit to her (Widow). Her sending a force to subdue the First Sinner would count as FS being locked up by Silk.

2. We don't know that First Sinner was imprisoned before the Slab existed, and the Slab existing before the Haunting is irrelevant. FS being locked up in the Slab doesn't entail the Slab being created at the moment of her capture. It could have existed as an institution before her capture. It was operating in the Conductor-era at least.

3. Weavers are bound in cages prior to their final fate, and the First Sinner's prison is a giant version of the same cages found in the Cradle. At some point, FS died in captivity. This may have been before Silk started doing whatever she was doing with Weavers that leaves the cage empty. Or maybe FS died because she was consumed, leaving only her husk. It's not as if Silk wouldn't want her captured regardless of whether she planned to eat her or not. Eating Weavers might have been something Silk started doing after creating the Silkborn, needing to sustain them with power harvested from other Weavers.

4. What's the basis for the former claim? We see Citadel forces employ silk magic and rune magic under Silk's influence, and she also had Weavers under her control that can manipulate existing silk (again, Widow). As to the latter, the Citadel was strong enough to take down Hornet. Throw enough Reeds at something, etc. Weavers are powerful but not invincible - Weavers like Widow submitted to Silk. They couldn't fight her. If a Citadel expedition sent to Hallownest can take Hornet, the Citadel forces in Pharloom could take First Sinner. She's not that cool.

[whole holly]

it sucks that Weaversong has no importance or mention in silksong

[craggy smelt]

it does though

[whole holly]

where?

[craggy smelt]

Hornet talking to Caretaker about Lace

Child of the monarch, she claimed herself at the end, and her shell suggested it true, a being born purely from Silk woven tight.
That such a feat is possible... I have seen life woven from Silk before, but tiny, transient... Never like this...

it's true that it doesn't mention the charm itself and how it was a 'song of farewell'

[whole holly]

okay but that's not significant mention in any way

[craggy smelt]

but it's a little something

fate alas is sometimes cruel

[spring merlin]

I don’t agree (though you have good points) but this makes me appreciate how they wrote First Sinner to be interpreted in these multiple possible ways

[whole holly]

hey do you think Hornet is pale being?

[craggy smelt]

yes

[whole holly]

when what is a Pale Being? if that is case? any being that is Pale?

[edgy nebula]

so do we agree all successors were alive by the time hornet finds them

[craggy smelt]

Hornet refers to a 'higher caste', I think anything in this caste qualifies - Hornet includes both herself and Silk in it when talking to Green Prince
Mask Maker also makes similar references, and includes Hornet as well

[whole holly]

so Hornet is a Higher Being as well?

i think it is like this;

[whole holly]

it would explain how First Light is Pale but not related to Pale Beings, it is category all on it's own

[craggy smelt]

who knows at this point
I think higher being is a pretty nebulous and ill-defined term
I'm inclined to think she's not on the level of beings like Silk, Pale King, White Lady, etc.
though she has the potential if she gains enough power (Weaver Queen, etc.)

[craggy smelt]

I agree with the principle, if not the labeling - I think it would just confuse people, given that Hornet is referred to as a pale being
I appreciate that 'pale higher being' or 'higher pale being' isn't exactly the most elegant label

[whole holly]

is Paleness related to Higher Caste or totally unrelated thing, i think it is unrelated

[craggy smelt]

I think they are one and the same

[whole holly]

Pale Beings are higher beings, hornet is their kind, meaning having same characteristics and being related to them i don't think that she is herself: "Hornet dialogue with the Green Prince: "You were mortal bugs, caught beneath a being pale... Devotion or destruction... these are the only fates my kind allow." "

she creates some type of description that she doesn't fit, like she does not allow fate of destruction or devotion herself

Kind meaning nature would make sense with game themes, she is higher caste while not being higher being, she is pale bug while not being pale being, and game seems to tell us that

[whole holly]

i mean First Light/Pale Light having no godly resonance makes me think that Paleness is unrelated to Higher Being status and Pale Being only used in Higher Being status with exception of hornet who describes herself as having their characteristics while also not sharing her own description of pale beings just makes me take her words with grain of salt

[craggy smelt]

I think we're just arguing over how labels apply here.
Pale Being vs. Being w/ Paleness vs. higher being vs. higher caste...
Silk and Pale King and White Lady are part of the higher caste, also called gods and pale beings.
Hornet is included as one of their kind, although I don't think she's god-tier like them. Despite her immortality and power and perspectives, I don't think she's got the juice they do.
Looking at how her Crest changes when you bind Silk suggests just how different something like Silk is, their nature and essence are on a different scale.
Trying to categorize Pale Being as different from pale being is fraught and going to confuse people, and its already confusing enough.

[edgy nebula]

is anyone here familiar with law

if so, in court, would lace be considered a child legally

sk-discussion is debating if hornet went to jail for all her crimes if she would have child abuse charges

[spark valve]

no

[edgy nebula]

i see, how about the vessels?

[spark valve]

also wouldn't count

human laws tend to be tailored around humans

[edgy nebula]

i see, tyty

[frosty gate]

What are we talking bout? Pale Beings again?

[spring merlin]

She’s legally like hundreds of years old, so no

[kindred ingot]

ngl I think Hornet is a Higher Being

[twin dragon]

they were coming back from the surface apparently

then they woulda somehow gone up

[cinder remnant]

Are memories another subset of dreams like nightmares?

[sturdy knot]

But where would they go up?

[spark valve]

memories are dreams but they aren't like nightmares

[sturdy knot]

They weren’t stopping to use the lifts, and sinners road seems like a very dangerous place to be slowly marching allong

[cinder remnant]

Ok so is there a higher being that rules over memories like the nightmare heart rules over nightmares?

[spark valve]

no

[cinder remnant]

Coolio

[cinder remnant]

They could have been using the mist as phantom would likely have let them through

[spark valve]

that isn't really a preexisting path to the citadel, hornet has to break walls to find it

[sturdy knot]

And the rune cage is fat

[cinder remnant]

Is that true for bilewaters entrance?

[spark valve]

it is

[sturdy knot]

The organ only has a small elavator to the citidel

[spark valve]

bilewater entrance is also extra definitely not intended it not only requires breaking a wall it also requires swimming through muckmaggots

[frosty gate]

Huh, you just made think about something, why is it Sinner's Path then

If there's no way to the citadel that way

[spark valve]

because anyone who isn't a sinner would be on the pilgrimage and that path doesn't lead to the citadel

there's the holy path and there's the other path

[sturdy knot]

Bud the envoys would loose ti the muckroaches

[frosty gate]

Dumb question, fair answer, moving on

[cinder remnant]

Disregarding the how they get to the citadel, how do they get the cage to the top

[gentle aspen]

“Sinners” can’t enter the citadel gang
They’d be killed by the judges

[frosty gate]

I fell for dumb youtube shorts Trickster, forgive me

[gentle aspen]

[kindred ingot]

but it does lead to the Citadel

[spark valve]

if you could just read like two messages of context

it doesn't

[frosty gate]

Which cage?

[gentle aspen]

yeah after you use song magic to traverse the path through the mist

[cinder remnant]

Hornets cage

[spark valve]

and after breaking walls

[gentle aspen]

pilgrims aren’t gonna be able to do that

[kindred ingot]

okay, fair

[spark valve]

not only could pilgrims not make it nobody could ever have made it

[cinder remnant]

There is nowhere to move it up(in regards to hornets cage to the summit)

[sturdy knot]

So the envoys bringing hornet to pharloom are idoits

[spark valve]

they might've just been able to affix it to one of the elevator mechanisms in blasted steps or whatever

[sturdy knot]

They where not stopping

[frosty gate]

Maybe Bellways and then Ventrica? Or just Bellways and then parade her through the Halls

[frosty gate]

Also a possibility

[sturdy knot]

Yes rune cage in ventrica

[cinder remnant]

Most rooms are too small for hornets giant cage

[frosty gate]

They can get her in a smaller cage

[kindred ingot]

maybe TC didn't think of that

[frosty gate]

Although there are Rune Cages in the Cradle

[cinder remnant]

But taking her out of said cage may wake her

[frosty gate]

TC's favorite answer

[sturdy knot]

How long does it take you to break out of the slab rune cage?

[frosty gate]

"We don't know that yet"

[kindred ingot]

TC when you ask them the most important lore question ever: "idk"

[frosty gate]

There just has to be another way up that we can't see because 2D map 3D world

Even if the found a way to get it up to the Lift to the Cradle, which could probably lift the cage, they still need to take it to the actual Cradle

[tawdry flare]

Act 3 isn’t real because the color of Shakra’s rings change. Hornet is still trapped in GMS’ mind

[sturdy knot]

Ah, we cant see the super secret citidel shellwood elavator™ because the game is 2d

[sinful nimbus]

what if it was a bridge in the Blasted Steps and instead of Random Unexplained SealBreaker 9000 it was Last Judge's awesome thurible that broke the bridge because he deemed the Citadel henchman as sinners

[edgy nebula]

she’s got some range on it in that case

[shy sorrel]

So like whats the silk infection or whatever its called?

[limpid summit]

The Haunting

Is

Ummm

I’ll let Star answer this one

Aura lob

[sinful nimbus]

The Haunting. The Conductors in charge of The Citadel started injecting Grand Mother's Silk's silk into their citizens and themselves in Whiteward, to grant longevity. Eventually as bugs bred the silk was baked deep in the bloodline of almost every Pharloom bug. GMS took advantage of this by puppeting everyone essentially

[shy sorrel]

So much omg

Damn alright

So everything is controlled by her?

[kindred ingot]

yeah basically

some bugs, like the Skarr or the Craws, can resist her control at some level

but in general, she's controlling everyone

[sinful nimbus]

(Most skarr ants got haunted eventually though)

[kindred ingot]

yeah I said resist her control, not totally avoid the Haunting

Gilly said the Skarr can still retain a bit of themselves even after being Haunted

[sturdy knot]

The burning bugs aren’t effected tho

they burn the silk before it causes troulbe

[kindred ingot]

they're haunted

[sturdy knot]

the wisp lantern burns silk, they are kinda just crazy ppl

also they don't get effected by the void in act 3

the void runs allong the silk

[kindred ingot]

they're haunted

strings come from them when you play the needolin

[cinder remnant]

I see that not as being haunted, but more as having silk in their veins and hornet is using the same kind of thing GMS uses to make them sing, which works because hornet is so much closer than GMS and there isn't a delay between the silk and the command for the fire to burn before it occurs

[kindred ingot]

non-Haunted Pilgrims that should have Silk in them don't have the strings coming from them

[cinder remnant]

I can't remember who at the moment, but there was a boss that had strings attached but was confirmed not haunted so idk

[kindred ingot]

well, I can't really argue with that since you didn't specify the boss

[cinder remnant]

Mb gng I'm trying to remember

[cinder remnant]

Crawfather for one, there is also Widow, the Unraveled and Groal

[kindred ingot]

Crawfather and Groal are Haunted, The Unravelled is obviously Haunted, and you can't Needolin Widow

[cinder remnant]

If you were to, with cheats widow has strings

[kindred ingot]

I don't think we should count things that can't happen in-game

[cinder remnant]

And why would Groal be haunted, he rules bilewater as separate to pharloom

Same with the Crawfather

[kindred ingot]

cuz almost every bug of Pharloom is Haunted

that's the whole premise of the game

[sturdy knot]

not rly

[cinder remnant]

They aren't bugs of pharloom they are bugs of bilewater

[kindred ingot]

Pharloom is the name of the place

[cinder remnant]

They have been actively killing citadel people as well which doesn't make sense if they are haunted

[kindred ingot]

that was a long time ago

[cinder remnant]

There is no evidence it was a long time ago though

All the evidence there is is that they were killed by bilewater people

[kindred ingot]

well, they have strings coming from them, so they're Haunted

[cinder remnant]

It's never directly confirmed that the strings mean haunting

[kindred ingot]

it's implied

[cinder remnant]

Where

[kindred ingot]

by the game

[cinder remnant]

Specifically what implies this is the case

[kindred ingot]

when you play the Needolin next to a Haunted bug and the strings appear

and when you play it next to a non-Haunted bug and the strings don't appear

[cinder remnant]

But you can play the needolin on the cogwork dancers with strings, and they can't be haunted because they are machines

[edgy nebula]

theyre still haunted, otherwise they wouldnt attack you

[limpid summit]

I think the silkflies’ manner of conception makes it easier for GMS to haunt them

[spark valve]

I mean that’s not necessarily true (see: weaver golems) but in the case of citadel robots they probably or at least plausibly are haunted

[cinder remnant]

I think that the dancers at least are meant to attack so as to guard

[edgy nebula]

honestly why did they even make cogwork dancers to attack

cogwork defender enemies exist

why do you need another cogwork defender

[spark valve]

cogwork dancers don't really make much sense

they don't like do anything

maybe they're just for show

I guess that's probably just it

[foggy fractal]

what does make sense in silksong

[limpid summit]

I wonder if the Haunting can’t really make the robots go outside their protocol

So GMS is trying as hard as possible to make them into warriors

[sturdy knot]

The cogwork dancers would defend the entrance of the core with their ballet of death, the cogwork defenders would be the last line of defence for the core

[cinder remnant]

Doesn't that mean they likely aren't haunted, because they would fulfill their duty regardless

[sturdy knot]

If they are haunted, they aren’t haunted by the silk being used to prolong life ( as they are not “real” bugs) and thus might have different symptoms

[cinder remnant]

On a different note, I think the Wyrm came from pharloom

Because the way back to Hallownest seems to be a tunnel as large as the Wyrm

[stark thicket]

||Hey, I want to ask something. Since Eva will have dialogue when Hornet gets infected, I’m curious—are there also any special dialogues when Hornet is affected by dirty bile water and its maggots? I’d like to try it myself, but in my save file I’ve already bind Eva, so I can’t do it anymore.||

[muted lantern]

I think she reacts to lifeblood overdose and the greyroot parasite

[stark thicket]

ah i see, thanks

[sturdy knot]

i do like the idea, but the route that hornet is brought in seems like a general main entrance, like kings pass, so i don't think that it directly points towards hallownest, but is instead a pharlooms largest entrance to the wastelands

a wyrm would explain how bug have minds in pharloom

[pale narwhal]

only these two

(since you said you already bound her and cant read it yourself)

[light verge]

Personally I don’t think so given their needolin dialogue depicts them as confused but they’re operating without issue. I think it’s all mechanical minds powered by silken flies

Also I think the fact that cogwork dancers are wound up, dictating how they fight supports this

Also also sup @limpid summit

[limpid summit]

SHALLLL

Hi shal what’s up

[light verge]

Doing my lore read of the night. Also Mola put out a wiki page on the cut ending with amazing details and have been gawking over that

[foggy fractal]

may I see it

[limpid summit]

Can’t believe Weaver Queen was supposed to be the good ending

Act 3 was mid but at least people live

[light verge]

https://hollowknight.wiki/mw/index.php?title=Cut_Content_(Silksong)/Ending_B:_Strung_to_Serve

[foggy fractal]

yay

[light verge]

There’s more than just the ending, seems like Silksong resembled quite a different structure when this ending was made

[foggy fractal]

woah now I can finally know what those cut sprites were intended for

plus what they look like put together

awesome

[glacial warren]

Ye the Cogworks are powered by essentially the stolen spirits/souls of dead Bugs so they can keep being slaves to the Citadel even after they die.

[edgy nebula]

found out wate has scrapped ndd from the wiki

[edgy nebula]

just noticed the tubes coming from the wall here, maybe the citadel did directly siphon karak's water after all

still genuinely curious on how they wouldve possibly done it under khann's nose though

[muted lantern]

Which tubes

[edgy nebula]

the ones on the far right

they could be coming from the slab or mt. fay though i suppose

[muted lantern]

I think those background things are bridges since we see them from grand gate. The same kinda bridge that leads to the slab. Unless you mean lik the things sticking out, but are those even pipes? where would they be draining into?

[edgy nebula]

this thing

im not sure theyre bridges since we see them coming from putrified ducts and theyre also surrounded by glass

[craggy smelt]

ventrica tubes?

[edgy nebula]

ventricas go vertically

also why would ventricas go into karak/the slab/mt fay

[muted lantern]

Im pretty sure those are bridges.

Can we compare it to the slab bridge?

[edgy nebula]

here's the bridge to the slab

and here's the putrified ducts bridge, which is seemingly just on top of one of those weird tubes

they do look alot more like bridges the more i look at them but also

why would there be bridges to putrified ducts

[muted lantern]

Well theyd probably need to access the ducts in a path thats not the pretty hidden one we find.

[lyric tree]

Just curious: Has anyone else noticed that the big corpse in queens gardens looks ike the one that hornet binds for beast crest?
if so any lore implications there?

[muted lantern]

Its probably similar in that its an ancient and extinct kind of beast that once walked the world. I think they are like dinosaurs of the hk world.

[lyric tree]

Ahhh i see
Thats pretty cool thanks

[fleet sparrow]

Interesting

Though

Karak dried out when GMS was still at her peak.
Back then, the Citadel wasnt so grand.

I suppose the pipes could have just been renovated, but idk.
Also, the pipes have holes, could be glass, but idk

[craggy smelt]

then maybe there were part of some larger transport system - larger scale conduits for material and/or troops, or connecting to the ducts for expelling pollution there
Hallownest had been expanding with tramways and similar, the Citadel might have been going the same

[hidden crater]

Baby broodling: Eggy eggy! im gonna eat soo much and lay soo many eggys!
Grand mother silk in the abyss:

[dire lynx]

W broodling

[spark valve]

the citadel is a giant structure they might be supports

[frosty gate]

I'm still fully convinced they're both supports and pipes

They're suspiciously connected to places with water in them

[frosty gate]

The one to the Ducts goes straight into a wall, while the one in the Slab is a proper bridge, not the one behind tho.

[stark thicket]

thanks

[pale narwhal]

i do think its interesting that she adresses greyroot's parasite directly rather than hornet

[frosty gate]

She probably can't see Hornet

[stray fog]

"Even lodged within another's shell"

[frosty gate]

She can see the shell, she can't see who's shell

[whole holly]

true

she has senses that are conventionally different

okay now can we go over everything we know about Ancient Civilization?

[white dust]

dlc

[tawdry flare]

There is nothing to know

[twin dragon]

blasted steps

Actually

in the sequence

we see pharloom

so they might've went through shellwood n all

actually nvm

[sturdy knot]

They where leaving blasted steps

[twin dragon]

where tf are they going

Do we see this anywhere?

[edgy nebula]

this is the entrance to the steps but with a front view

[sturdy knot]

That is the red area

[frosty gate]

I really wanna know how the planned to get us up

[sturdy knot]

I dont think they think

[plain gazelle]

they were probably delivering hornet to widow since she seems to expect hornet's arrival

[whole holly]

i don't really agree

[sturdy knot]

Widow would murder hornet

[plain gazelle]

she wants to deliver hornet to gms
"Ohhhh! She is here! The rare birthling! Precious child of Wyrm and Weaver!
Spawn of those who dared to flee. She has found her way home... at last.
How fine her shell, and Silk, and claw... For you, mother... let me claim her all for you! "
the first line in particular shows she definitely knows who hornet is ahead of time

[frosty gate]

I mean, Lace knew who Hornet was, does that mean they were delivering it to Lace?

We see the Cages up in the Cradle and corpses of Choristors and Envoys

I think it's safe to assume they take the Cages there personally, maybe with the assistance of Widow, but idk

GMS is definitely the one that does the killing

[whole holly]

implication from needolin dialogue in cage room and widow memory room is that GMS binds them

[solid breach]

||How do i do the sliding part of faymount?||

[edgy nebula]

ask #sk-help

[solid breach]

Oop wrong channel sorry

[edgy nebula]

it's all good

[sudden imp]

Can someone remind me : Was there a citadel before GMS, or did she make the citadel? Also, was there reliigous adherance before the influence of the haunting? What exactly is the haunting?

[autumn umbra]

Citadel was made by the Weavers. GMS had her tribe of Weaver daughters and we don't know much about her rule over Pharloom

eh someone else will explain it better-

[daring pine]

I’m finishing the Blasted Steps for the first time.
Given that at one time in development, it was possible to be deemed sinless by most of the judge enemies on the Blasted Steps, but not by the Last Judge, I’ve surmised it may have had several possible implications.

1. The pilgrims who sing with you to try to unlock the gate are not “sinless.” They either killed something on their pilgrimage, or the haunting lay dormant in them, and they would have eventually succumbed to it when it became active in them.
2. Even if you were able to skip the Moss Mother boss fight at the beginning of the game and avoid harming any other enemies, the Last Judge looks deeper into your heart, and knows who Hornet may have killed prior to the events of Silksong (like the unnamed vessel that the Knight obtains the Mothwing Cloak from, who we presume Hornet killed.)
3. The Last Judge is mercilessly cruel, and will no longer accept entry to the Citadel for any pilgrims it encounters.

[autumn umbra]

I don't think the Judges nor the Last Judge have special "heart-reading" powers. rosaries are the measure of faith. you probably had to pay a toll to get in. and also do the right prayers or whatever
nowadays Judges prolly kill all unhaunted pilgrims without discriminating so it doesn't matter whether the ones at the gate are sinless or not. and Hornet is actively being hunt by every Haunted creature

[frosty gate]

Knuckle cracking sounds

[sudden imp]

Why, did they do it to subject other bugs ? For what reason? Or was it in admiration for GMS? I forgot what the weavers wanted to do and how they eventually lost their desire to please GMS and wanted to rebel instead.

[frosty gate]

As far as information tells us, Weavers made the Citadel in order to keep GMS sealed in slumber, BUT the Citadel itself was made after GMS was sealed.
The Religion was founded by the Weavers and eventually taken down by the Conductors. The Haunting is basically GMS waking up and trying to gather enough power to wake back up

[autumn umbra]

yes that ^

[frosty gate]

GMS herself never ruled the Citadel properly

I mean, one could say she Haunted bugs and bugs kept it running, but she was never in charge of the Citadel

[autumn umbra]

yup

[sudden imp]

how did they seal her, why did they seal her, and how does the citadel work in keeping her sealed?

[frosty gate]

The Weavers were more or less slaves to GMS, constantly singing to her in order to keep her pleased, the grew tired and rebeled

[sudden imp]

interesting, I remember the dream sequence they were all playing harps... they got tired of that?

Was first sinner like the first one to say, "Hey wait, this sucks, lets rebel? "

[autumn umbra]

Weavers used to sing in devotion. they seemed to have conceived a new song that can keep her asleep. they used it to cage her in a slumber. the Citadel's Choir then singed that song. since that way the Weavers wouldn't have to keeps singing. eventually the Architects made the Cogwork Core which sings automatically and replaced the Choir

[frosty gate]

The way they did it was through song. They put her to sleep and kept her asleep 24/7
The Citadel is a big machine to pump out songs to keep her asleep without the Weavers doing anything

[sudden imp]

who'es in charge of the three melody elevator and why do they want one to collect the melodies to access the cradle?

[frosty gate]

Sigh I love to see that my theory is right, no new person has the right conception of First Sinner and she is very weirdly written.

First Sinner rebelled against GMS yes, it's theorized that she is the Weaver Atla and probably the First Weaver at all

But

[autumn umbra]

they knew it was impossible to keep GMS asleep forever. so that was a last measure so a Weaver or a Weaver-spawn would one day go up there and kill or bind GMS. Hornet even says only with the skills of a Weaver could you even learn the three parts of the melody

[frosty gate]

First Sinner got her name from Rebelling against the Citadel

[sudden imp]

is there something "sentient" about the three melody keepers at the elevator, or is that purely automaton carrying out an authorization check?

[frosty gate]

We're unsure if its just one song, I personally don't think its one song and that any song can be sung to keep her asleep

[frosty gate]

It's a rite of passage for the Pilgrimage

[frosty gate]

Absolutely automated machine

[sudden imp]

So the citadel was a religion to sing, but they didn't understand the meaning of the song was to keep GMS captured, and they wanted to punish anyone who would go against their religious norms?

[autumn umbra]

yes

[frosty gate]

Correct, only the Conductors knew about it

First Sinner tried to expose the truth

[autumn umbra]

but like. there WAS a song that the Weavers sang in her devotion that DIDN'T keep her asleep. so maybe not every song does the same

it could be related to the instrument? string versus bell?

anyway gtg good debate chat :3

[sudden imp]

what is the reason for the weaver technology to seem kind of futureristic. Seems like lazers and robots... but the citadel has clockworks, like steam punk. Seems like there is two different technology paths, but that the weaver version is superior, but for some reason the weavers failed, I guess that's because GMS even while captured, is still stronger and basically screwed everything thru her outburst of silk and the "haunting? "

[frosty gate]

I'm not sure, but we don't know about that detail

[autumn umbra]

thas true

anyway bye

[frosty gate]

Weaver tech is silk powered, there's probably a limit to how much they could've used. Also, the Weavernests are pre-citadel

[limpid summit]

The weavers likely built the first Architect and each built the others in turn

[frosty gate]

Bye

[limpid summit]

It makes sense that the mechanical style sort of deviated

The Sentinels are Weaver era and like a middle ground between the servitors and cogworks

[frosty gate]

Asuming First A was even a construct

[limpid summit]

True

[frosty gate]

The Maidens were probably Weaver Era too honestly

[sudden imp]

I got the impression the architect was literally a weaver that augmented their body like a cyborg... no? Or are architects like the chief invention of the first architect or of a weaver, and made to be like weavers, but not quite since they were autonomotons.

Also, are all automotons powered by those little silk moths? What are those things?

[frosty gate]

The Architects are Architects, they were made by either the First Architect or the Weavers to work, they're not Cyborgs, they're fully mechanical

Except by the Silkflies, if you would count those organic

[frosty gate]

Silkflies, they are made of silk and they power silk things

I don't remember if they're naturally ocurring or made

[sudden imp]

are they like accidental life forms that come from GMS but aren't controlled by her or have any interest in her?

[frosty gate]

They're made in the Whiteward

We think

[sudden imp]

I forgot what is the "lore" around "higher beings" ?? Like I know they are godlike, but we also know they aren't litterally gods. They seem to have a life span... seems like it points to a God that is above the higher beings? Do they have like accidental power of life? I feel like story wise they usually screw things up beyond what they intended.

[frosty gate]

Yeah they're made in the Whiteward, I convinced myself

[frosty gate]

The Higher Beings are Godlike creatures

That's all we kinda know.
Some of them seem to have an urge for Domination

Is there something above them?

Yes? No? Kinda?

Void Given Focus is supposedly above all else

[radiant badger]

Some intresting world building i noticed

From the architecture in the marrow and mosshome ive noticed alot of people tryed to make towns in the lower regions of pharloom, But from one way or another they all failed

[proper plover]

Im confused by the existence of the surface on SK, like surface of what? IS the Surface the same height as dirtmouth on HK?

[radiant badger]

No the abyss wouldent make sense then

[frosty gate]

It would make sense assuming that Pharloom is a mountain

[proper plover]

Why not? :0

[radiant badger]

Assuming the abyss lake is the same size all round, the surface is kilometers higher then the abyss which would make the dirtmouth theory somewhat incorrect

[sudden imp]

|| a literally ant hill!!! ||

[frosty gate]

Or a Volcano

[fleet sparrow]

Mosshome was probably pretty big pre-haunting, cus there are so many pilgrims there + praying sites and the elevator to Bone Bottom, + the Bellway is a 2 second walk, but ive never thought abt that Marrow-one too much.

It seems very abandoned, and its small

[frosty gate]

I have to disagree, not because of Dirtmouth but because of the Quirrel Comic

The top of a mountain is not more Surface than the middle of a Valley

Which is where Dirtmouth is located by the way

[proper plover]

Hmm makes Sense, tho, isnt the "cealing" in dirtmouth the same as the Surface, like for example, the howling clifs are windy, greyish and no cealing, the same as the Surface, like these two places look a Lot alike

[sudden imp]

you talking about the edge of blasted steps?

[frosty gate]

That's also the surface, but i mean the top of Pharloom. Have you gone to the Village?

[sudden imp]

i've 100%, so yes I have.. or rather I had to go to the surface to finish the end of the age mushroom

[frosty gate]

Nameless Town, yeah

[fleet sparrow]

I personally believe the theory that the «surface» has multiple layers, possibly dug out by wyrms? Possibly.

In Silksong there is Nameless Town.
The edges of Blasted Steps.
Lastly, in the Weavenest in Far Fields, you can see surface-looking stuff

[edgy nebula]

topic?

[fleet sparrow]

The Surface(s)

[frosty gate]

Surface level

[edgy nebula]

it's possible there's just wind underground because tc doesnt give a damn about physics

[frosty gate]

Again, it's all the same, its just levels. If you go to Mt Everest it's not any less surface than your regular street

Its just taller

[sudden imp]

What in pharloom is the same surface height as dirtmouth or howling cliffs or hallownest crown?

[frosty gate]

No, I think the Nameless Town is atop what would be a mountain, which, yes, is the Surface

[sudden imp]

wind can whip through caves if one side of the cave is higher air pressure than the other side.

[frosty gate]

But the entrance through Blasted Steps is also the Surface

[fleet sparrow]

Rah, cant post pictures😡

[frosty gate]

All we do is go into the caves

[frosty gate]

Why no?

[fleet sparrow]

Search up «Hallownest and Pharloom size comparasion»

[edgy nebula]

he doesnt have enough messages

[fleet sparrow]

Can i dm any of you and send the images?

[sudden imp]

Weird looking ant hill, but this is the ant hill, right?

[fleet sparrow]

So you can resend them

[fleet sparrow]

Yeah, what i wanted to show

[sudden imp]

sands of karak is in the ant hill or outside the anthill?

[frosty gate]

Mind you, this image is not accurate

[fleet sparrow]

How much distance do u think is between Pharloom and Hallownest?

[edgy nebula]

how so? according to the description the person did their math

[frosty gate]

On the scale it is, sure, but they don't take into account the part of the map deleted for convience

[sudden imp]

This reminds me that Hollow Knight 1 was also awesome

[frosty gate]

Hornet went a lot deeper than what we see on the map

[fleet sparrow]

Personally think the distance between Pharloom and Hallownest is around 3-4 Pharlooms

[fleet sparrow]

She went below the Void sea

[frosty gate]

Or at the very least, it looks like she did

[edgy nebula]

it's probably quite some ways away

[frosty gate]

No, I meant from the Docks to the Abyss

[edgy nebula]

hornet was trapped for a long time seemingly and at that point when she started getting into the action again she was visibly struggling

[sudden imp]

i'm still not sure I understand when hornet slows down and is in visible pain or something at the beginning and at the beginning of act 3

[frosty gate]

I think it's all the Surface honestly, both the sides and the top

[frosty gate]

She fell from very high

[fleet sparrow]

I think its not that far cus:
-Mount Fay in the west and Crystal Peaks in the east. These mountain probably slowly go up and connect
-There is a theory that Wormways is named after wyrms
-The small bugs capturing Hornet have small legs
-There are a lot of connections between Pharloom and Hallownest

[frosty gate]

Wyrms are not Hallownest exclusive

We also saw the top of Crystal Peak

[fleet sparrow]

Yeah, but it might curve

[frosty gate]

It curves down, you can see it

[sudden imp]

can't wait for sea of sorrow to add more lore

[fleet sparrow]

Like:

                                                                         -… and then Mount Fay
 ———.                               ———————-

—- - ———-
———-

[frosty gate]

I mean sure, but there's still a lot of ground between the two

[fleet sparrow]

Yeah

[frosty gate]

But back to the point, I think Nameles Town and Dirtmouth are not the same height but they're both Surface

We always ask how they intended to move Hornet up to the Cradle

Have we even asked how they got her out Hallownest?

[sudden imp]

the elevator in the cogwork would be fine to use. I think the game doesn't really explain the jumping and verticle movement for other characters than hornet, but I'm sure they had a way to get the cage to the cogwork.

As for out of hallownest, they just caught her sleeping and whatever spell was on the cage weakended her.

[frosty gate]

Sure, but I mean moving Hornet through the Caves with that big ass cage

[sudden imp]

I think there is a heavy amount of plot device on this topic

[pseudo dawn]

does anyone know the dream sheild room?

[pale narwhal]

in silksong?

[pseudo dawn]

hl

hk

oh wait wrong channel

[midnight reef]

If you want to belive Leth (I think it was him who said it) Dirtmouth is just in a very large cave

But that was just what he thought, iirc

If I had to guess, and considering how much of the citadel is above you when at Pharlooms Gate before the Surface, that his theory makes sense

That the desolate wastes are below the surface, somehow

[pale narwhal]

hell im pretty sure the nameless town is still in a cave too

[craggy smelt]

I believe it

no surface, no sun or sky

only underground forever

[midnight reef]

Genuinely

Yeah

[kindred ingot]

what's the topic today?

[vestal oyster]

yeah what is going on

[frosty gate]

Idk, we were talking about the surface but that's dying so idk make up a topic

I gotta leave

[vestal oyster]

what does city of steel probably look like?

[kindred ingot]

a city, made of steel

[velvet bolt]

I got the impression from the other records of GMS’ forces trying to capture other Weaver descendants that they basically just bum-rushed Hornet with a huge number of soldiers

Because the other records mention that they lost a bunch of bugs with each attempt, and those were bugs who were only part weaver and weak/elderly

so with hornet it probably was like, an endless gauntlet until she just ran out of stamina enough for them to get her in the rune cage

[limpid summit]

Zi describes the Growstone as the “rock of the home spear”

This makes me think of a skyscraper

Which hasn’t really been done in HK

[vestal oyster]

"90 envoys lost" lol

[pale narwhal]

there's probably a surface somewhere, its not going to be a whole universe of caves

[vestal oyster]

maybe city of steel is powered by soul as their electricity lol

[velvet bolt]

I mean, why not, really? It’s not like it has to adhere to our understanding of reality

Alternatively, it could be a “planet” where it’s only hospitable on the inside, and not the outside.

[pale narwhal]

the radiance is probably made of essence right? (ive got a theory/headcanon that depends on the answer)

[gentle aspen]

just say the theory

the answer is effectively yes

[pale narwhal]

we know she made the moth tribe but I'd imagine a god born of dreams needs to be born of belief
and if that's right (which it might not) that belief mightve started from rumours/legends of the actual real surface sun

[velvet bolt]

Moths do famously love lamp

[cinder remnant]

What if the void is actually the surface and gravity is just flipped

[gentle aspen]

maybe

no real evidence either way

[velvet bolt]

that’d be fun! like the void is effectively akin to outer space

but behaves more like an ocean or something

it’s fantasy, you can go wild with it

[drifting walrus]

This ain’t genshin impact bro

[cinder remnant]

What's that

Google is my best friend

[drifting walrus]

Game with a very similar concept

[cinder remnant]

That's cool

[velvet bolt]

with gods/concepts like that it’s a chicken and egg kind of situation. obviously the radiance, like, exists, but Hallownest is entirely a series of caves, so whether or not a sun even exists is kind of moot

what the moth tribe worshipped was more effectively the concept of a sun-like being

like the idea of a light that floods the land, type idea. that’s how I see it anyway

[drifting walrus]

So like Helios in Greek mythology

[velvet bolt]

because they wouldn’t really have the ability to even conceptualize what it would actually be like to live somewhere that “day” or “daylight” even exists, since all anyone knows is caves and more caves

[cinder remnant]

Might be interesting if the Radiance did exist, but decided to go to the dream realm like PK

Maybe to gain power or because her power was waning

[kindred ingot]

what's the topic now?

[cinder remnant]

Sun and surface and stuff

How the Radiance came to be

[kindred ingot]

oh

she's a higher being
she just is

[craggy smelt]

it should be though

[velvet bolt]

Just considering her name in and of itself, and what she embodied, I can’t imagine that a god of light would be able to have all that much power in the real world because of how naturally dark HK’s entire setting is

[craggy smelt]

underground bug kingdoms forever

[velvet bolt]

So her going to the dream realm, where no such limitations exist, makes sense to me

[pale narwhal]

also just the size of the caves

thats something she, the wyrms and GMS share

and maybe Unn as well

nightmare heart doesn't seem to even have a way to move to begin with

[velvet bolt]

Nightmare heart is weird because the troupe moves, but the heart itself is stationary

But yeah it does seem as though much of the space in the setting definitely favors smaller creatures

Not hard to imagine why the pale king incarnated in a smaller form, being more approachable to his subjects/worshipers aside

[vestal oyster]

i'm very curious on how hornet and lace left the abyss if the diving bell only has one seat

[lone folio]

one goes upp and then they drop it down and the other goes upp

boom

[vestal oyster]

very important to silksong lore

[vestal oyster]

i can imagine lace or silksong girl just waiting down there with one hand in hips lol

[craggy smelt]

it has more than one seat though

[pale narwhal]

hornet lets lace bounce around the cabin like a ball

[edgy nebula]

lace died in the climb back up cause she has no silk soar and doesnt know how to fight gargantuan glooms

[limpid summit]

Dude the shamans genuinely just died for no reason

There’s literally a fourth heart right there

I wonder if they wanted to

[sinful nimbus]

They should've had Chapel Maid sacrifice herself and left the cool ones alive

[gentle aspen]

I mean they were in a shitty part of the game

ofc they wanted to die

[floral venture]

What do you have against chapel maid? 😭

[covert night]

they died due to retcon overdose

[sinful nimbus]

she got nothing interesting to say man

[limpid summit]

Blackbeard by lamplight

[sinful nimbus]

Caretaker is always infodumping to you about crucial story elements Bell Hermit yaps about the themes of the game Chapel Maid is just there she does nothing

[floral venture]

She says thank you after you kill moss mother 😔 🙏

Hermit calls you a slave and Caretaker rants at you for ringing the bell

At least she's nice

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet is a slave though

He tried warning her and the blasted slave went and became the Weaver Queen

[limpid summit]

He’s not even a good game themes

Is he the Bardoon actually

I was searching for the Bardoon equivalent

[sinful nimbus]

Huntress was going to be the Bardoon equivalent fr

[floral venture]

That doesn't make it any nicer 😔

[limpid summit]

God Bardoon is so awesome

[gentle aspen]

its black history month

Can’t say shit like this

[limpid summit]

They gave all her aura to Skynx

Joker who is the piccolo of HK

Is Quirrel black coded

[gentle aspen]

😐

[limpid summit]

What

Seriously

[vestal oyster]

it needed the power of the whole family for hornet to go into the red memory

caretaker is great

[sinful nimbus]

OK but it'd be better writing if the character I dislike died and the ones I like lived

[vestal oyster]

hermit is... okay

chapel maid is kind

[sinful nimbus]

Don't slander the goat

[vestal oyster]

wheere

where

[limpid summit]

She could even bring TK in its shade form

[craggy smelt]

could've rescued Silk too smh

[edgy nebula]

would be a bit cramped

[potent blaze]

if she didnt sac herself

[sudden imp]

why is there a bench inside the first shrine and outside?

[rough nest]

How can hornet use silk to Interact with dreams even though I don't think she uses essence

[craggy smelt]

silk magic can do pretty much everything, it seems

Silk's haunting binds minds together, so silk can touch on mind and memory

I guess Hornet is doing pretty much the same thing

it may be that she just perceives Essence as silk strands instead of dreamcatcher wheelies

[craggy smelt]

interior seems to have standard Bellshrine layout, so it includes a bench
but that shrine is destroyed in Act 3, so there had to be a back-up outside
(this really bugged me)

[velvet bolt]

Can a place not have two benches 😭

[drifting walrus]

Has anyone unironically used the bench inside first shrine

[fickle basin]

If you have visited act 3 then ya know why

Btw what was the history of making bilewater and putrified ducts and sinners road

Ik the in game stuff

But why did the developers decide to put MUCKMAGGOTS

[sudden imp]

Finished 100%, don’t remember going into the shrine in act 3

[fickle basin]

YOU LITERALLY HAVE TO GO THERE RIGHT AFTER ACT 3 STARTS AND THEN GETTING THE TORMENTED TROBBIOOOOOOOOOOO WISH

[sudden imp]

I don’t remember. I beat purple trobbio tho

[fickle basin]

To get the wish

[sudden imp]

I remember sherma dawning the garb

[fickle basin]

Yes couldnt ya see fallen first shrine

[sudden imp]

Don’t remember it being fallen.

[rough nest]

The arena for threadstorm is hard

[fickle basin]

Wdym

In the craw house?

[sleek spear]

Can anyone explain this ,
As i remember knight died after p5 ending, so what he's doing in the abbys, and how he reached there

[rough nest]

Yeah

[edgy nebula]

tk never really died

if you dont do the everbloom etv, the void seeps from godseeker and starts to lash out, if you do give godseeker the everbloom it just disappears, in that case tk would presumably be lost in the dream realm or theyd just appear on the floor a little later cause you cant die in the dream realm

also im just now realizing, tk's grown a bit havent they

theyre pretty large now

[muted lantern]

I think thats how they look in dnm

more tentacles maybe?

[edgy nebula]

i mean, their head is huge

[muted lantern]

looks the same to me besides tentacles

their tentacles got bigger definitely

but the rest looks the same

[edgy nebula]

if you compare hk tk to silksong tk i think their head is definitely larger now than it was if you compare it to hornet

maybe they read a few books

[muted lantern]

I think their size compared to hornet is more of a perspective thing

[edgy nebula]

maybe

[smoky agate]

Can someone tell me the lore i like story's start from the beginning

[sleek spear]

So knight is alive , and she recognizes hornet ?

[tacit scarab]

I think it's about the same size? It just appears larger because their horns are slightly larger, but the actual head seems about the same

[muted lantern]

Yeah tk has become the god of the void essentially, and they seem to recognize her and save her from the void.

[rough nest]

I hate this stupid arena

[limpid summit]

In very very short
Grand Mother Silk a higher being uses silk to turn regular bugs into Weavers
At some point Weavers get tired of serving her; while some leave, some stay and after multiple experiments they seal her with song, building the Citadel as a place of worship as well as her tomb
They rule as evil overlords for a while until they grant the bug religion formed around the Citadel power because they’re dying
These bugs eventually want to become immortal and start experimenting with Silk to do it, this causes GMS to stir and start manipulating them through the silk that has accumulated in them for generations, and that’s where the game begins
At a certain point, GMS creates two silk children; while the first is discarded (we don’t know if it was on purpose or unknowingly), the second is created more deliberately as a child in order to wish GMS awake

[finite wind]

Can someone explain to me the first ending you get

Like why does hornet spread silk on pharloom without reviving any dead bodies like we saw was possible

And why did she turn fully spider when great mother silk is not

[limpid summit]

She binds GMS but her identity is overwritten because GMS is too strong

GMS turned spider too she has that attack with eight arms

[finite wind]

Idk she looks pretty human to me

2 arm

2 leg

Or 1 leg

But why did hornet do all that after getting that power

[rough nest]

If I had some type of reliable aoe I think threadstorm would be worth it but threadstorm is the aoe

Why is this arena more difficult than lace 1

Oh shit wrong channel

Uuuh

[smoky agate]

So the whole story is pretty much grandchildren trying to off their grandmother and it went sideways am I correct?

[limpid summit]

The story is about oppressed people becoming oppressors

The Weavers rose up against their belligerent mother but their rule was (for a while) bloody and oppressive

The Conductors (the rulers after them) rose from amongst regular bugs but they were even worse

Along Hornet’s journey though she gains faith that the people who live in Pharloom will preserve the kingdom afterward

[rough nest]

Hear me out:||hollow knight show that takes place after silksong||

[torn heath]

Mmmm GMS did not create the weavers, weavers are older than Hallownest

[rough nest]

No gms did create weavers by injecting pharlets with silk

[long tapir]

Pharloom is older than Hallownest

[torn heath]

Where is that lore?

[rough nest]

Cutscene. Someone else can probably tell you exactly how to get it

[long tapir]

Its shown First Sinner was ascended from pharlid to weaver by Silk, and so do the rest of weavers. Then they escaped to Hallownest because they didn't want to serve GMS

(some escaped to Hallownest, others just went to other kingdoms)

[limpid summit]

They may have predated Hallownest as a kingdom we don’t know

We know the native spider caste was there before PK

[long tapir]

thats true actually

[rough nest]

If I were to guess they were there before even the radiance was there

[long tapir]

to me GMS started ruling Pharloom at the time the moths worshipped Radiance, and then the weavers arrived at Hallownest when PK started ruling it but dont think theres any canon timeline to say

maybe even before PK

[torn heath]

Yes but where is this shown

[long tapir]

after defeating First Sinner

[rough nest]

Deepnest was probably founded before PK because otherwise PK would have claimed deepnest

[long tapir]

cutscene

[long tapir]

deepnest even without weavers is really hostile but I do find that likely

[torn heath]

Ah thank you

[dull pewter]

Is that even the knight at the end of sk cause his horn looks a lil bit different like the other guy

[foggy fractal]

yes its the knight their horns are just bigger after the events of radiance fight

[limpid summit]

No it’s some other guy

[dull pewter]

Ok ty

[foggy fractal]

john hollow knight?

[edgy nebula]

no it's the pale king

[drifting walrus]

Let’s be honest VGF would probably obliterate pk for his experiments with the void

[autumn umbra]

I don't get why TK can't control Pharloom's Void

[sour lava]

who is hornet’s dad

[shell magnet]

Void given focus can't necessarily control all void in hallownest either

[shell magnet]

Pale king

Nah actually it's zote

[autumn umbra]

what was the Void Heart's description again..?

[shell magnet]

No clue

[autumn umbra]

XD

[random harbor]

Charm: Void Heart

An emptiness that was hidden within, now unconstrained. Unifies the void under the bearer's will.

This charm is a part of its bearer and can not be unequipped.

@pancakeisagod used /charms category: L-W charm: Void Heart

[autumn umbra]

I can't remember either

it just says "the void"

how ambiguous

[shell magnet]

In hollow knight we see that void given focus doesn't really control all the void

They just kinda have all the vessels and thk with them

[potent blaze]

i remember seeing a theory that the void entity is not THE void entity but rather, a void entity

because if it truly controlled all the void, the knight would've recognized hornet instantly UNLESS because of GMS's silk or pharloom's nature, the knight could not detect it until it was almost too late

[lapis creek]

all we really know is that there were no entities controlling the void before the knight

[hidden crater]

Dave silk song

[autumn umbra]

void tendrils don't attack TK while having the Void Heart tho

[craggy smelt]

we don't really have any answer for why the Void in Pharloom needs to be physically subdued by TK

maybe it got all riled up by Silk

maybe something else

[muted lantern]

My takes been for a while that void tendrils are just like the voids digestive system. The void is tks body but we don't control our stomach acid

[autumn umbra]

but the things that were attacking Hornet were also tendrils. but in the sea

oh nvm I get what you mean

[jagged sun]

I'm pretty sure that TK can control all of the void, but instead of being in every place where there's void all at once, it acts more like a magnetic field of control. So its shade would have to actually make its way to Pharloom before being able to help Hornet.

[craggy smelt]

thing with those two issues is
TK did control the Void as a whole, tendrils included, during the Radiance fight. Also Void tendrils are suppressed by TK when they swim in it
and TK was right there in Pharloom, because they attacked the Void tendrils there physically. It can't have been a range thing.

[maiden meteor]

I think that it took TK a while to realize something’s up in Pharloom

and then some time to get there

i don’t think we really have any evidence that Knight is omnipresent in void

Abyss is spanning possibly entire world

even EtV kinda implies Knight isn’t controlling entirety of void

since we see THK doing own thing

and I think reason Knight attacked tendrils was because it simply was too late to get them under control

like when your hand is few centimeters from slapping someone it’s unlikely you’d be able to cease momentum

[autumn umbra]

unrelated but I need this clarified
Void can kill living bugs. but it cannot posses them (Vessels are dead. they're more like moulds)
the only reason possessions happen in Silksong is because that's not just Void, it's Silk wrapped in Void? since Void can get the properties of Soul and Silk is Soul?

[craggy smelt]

that's right

the vessels are basically bits of Void that have been imprinted by the pale children - Void given their form and instincts and abilities

bits of Void 'fooled' into thinking they're something else

[autumn umbra]

ye

thxs!

[pale narwhal]

the vessels, having been stillborn, are basically empty containers to hold void within them.
i think the reason they are able to move with purpose rather than simply lashing out indiscriminately the way void in the abyss does may be the size. too small for conflicting desires

[autumn umbra]

my personal theory is that the Void took the will of the Soul of the kids it hollowed out from their shells. and Soul guides Void. that's why the Void in them acts as it does

here's a message where I explain why I think Void behaves like that:
#hk-lore message

[vapid moat]

Out of curiosity what’s the current ideas on the inclusion of the shade lord in the sister of the void ending (and its lore implications)

[jagged sun]

That Embrace The Void is the ending that canonically leads to Silksong

[vapid moat]

I was more wondering if there’s any new ideas on the shade lord based on it

[jagged sun]

Ah, no, it just flashes in briefly during the cutscene, the only character we really get new info on is the Knight, where it's essentially confirmed that it has feelings

If you want more in-depth stuff either dm me or bring it to #hk-lore

[vapid moat]

Actually I had a bit of a thought about it’s inclusion in the ending, I feel like it implies that the shade lord is made of the vessels instead of the vessels being part of (or influenced by) it

Could be totally off of course but just based on how we first see the knight, then all the vessels, and then the shade lord flashes into view for a brief second

[whole holly]

VGForm kinda controls vessels behind him, Lord of Shades is just Knight after he acquires Void Heart, VGFocus is All Shades and all void in hallownest uniting under Knight's will and forming Void Given Focus

[jagged sun]

I personally think that the shade lord is:
-The Knight controlling it
-The vessels lending their power
-The Void lending the corporeality

Actually yeah I'm talking about VGFocus

[whole holly]

why does Fandom call VGFocus Shade Lord, it confuses everybody with Lord of Shades which is just Knight with Void Heart

[stray fog]

Tc could one day name it "Dave", and that wouldn't be a retcon

[jagged sun]

Lmao I honestly kinda hope they give some of the vessels names in an interview or random post or something

[whole holly]

is Shade Lord a file name? of the VGFocus?

[jagged sun]

Nope, everyone just calls it that

It sounds better than Void Given Focus

[stray fog]

Cooler title

[vapid moat]

I was speaking about VGFocus then. Personally I think that it’s the result of whatever desire for revenge the vessels had for the pale king combined with the voids desire to consume. I’m solely basing this on the void being able to be given form for a purpose and the abyss shriek dream nail dialogue

[whole holly]

i prefer Void Entity but Shade Lord confuses everyone with Lord of Shades

[whole holly]

i mostly agree

[jagged sun]

The dream nail dialogue in the abyss shriek room is just a hint to what it's used for

It could be lore too though

[vapid moat]

But I feel it also plays into the vessels, especially how we hear the VGFocus scream in godhome

[fading shard]

void given focus is the best way to call it

[heavy gyro]

Its roar is called shade lord roar iirc

In the files

[fading shard]

especially when it's name in it of itself states how the knight became such a form

[whole holly]

That might be because it is united by lord of shades and roar is coming from him

[stray fog]

Its gotta be more straightforward than that

[limpid summit]

People say shade lord because it rolls off the tongue more than Void Given Focus (which most people don’t really get)

[whole holly]

it is pretty straightforward

[whole holly]

Void Entity is name Wiki uses yet not as popular

[limpid summit]

Well that one’s made up

[heavy gyro]

Shade lord also sounds cooler

[whole holly]

sure but it is accurate and logical description, one that can't be confused with lord of shades and, shade lord is not really true name just because it is in game files

[whole holly]

Lord of Shades is already existing name, plus game files don't matter in canon lore

[frosty gate]

Honestly VGF sounds cool if abbreviated

[limpid summit]

I mean I always call it VGFocus

But it’s colloquially shade lord

That’s just what the community calls it

[frosty gate]

Yeah I don't particularly mind, I know what they mean when they say Shade Lord

[whole holly]

yeah me too, just wanted to make sense of it, especially when you ask lore questions it is somewhat counterintuitive for VGFocus being known as Shade Lord and some people sometimes think that it is short version of Lord of Shades

[tacit crown]

does mount fay go all the way up to the surface or up through the surface?

[limpid summit]

I’m not sure if it even goes up to

[stray fog]

Its a bit too vibrant to be a surface location

[limpid summit]

Yeah

[frosty gate]

Mount Fay really is a question of a place

Even if you could explain the wind and cold, it's a weird place

I'm guessing it's just a big ass place in the caves

Considering that the real Surface goes over it, apparently

[twin dragon]

Probably the origin of the coral gorge?

Now thats its frozen over coral gorge dried out

[gentle aspen]

Well yeah but that also is the same as void given form, the previous stage

Tc hates us

[lucid atlas]

Do we know what's up with all of the water in High Halls?

Like, where's it coming from? Where's it going? Why is that such a big element of that place?

[gentle aspen]

probably drained from karak

[vapid moat]

Aren’t there pipes in the citadel?

[gentle aspen]

High halls might be the place where the water is turned to steam

citadel is silk steam powered

[vapid moat]

It’s also where the conductors hung out

[lucid atlas]

But Karak's already dried up and it's constantly flowing up there

Maybe it's also meant to contrast the Bilewater?

The only natural clean water is at the Pale Lake

[vapid moat]

I feel like high halls were like a hoard of sorts, don’t you also find the rosarie storage place up there

[lucid atlas]

True

[lucid atlas]

You know, maybe the DLC might actually expand on that since we're gonna find an entier Sea

[livid tangle]

I hate that it's dried up, they should've made the coral tower something bigger then just the tower itself
They should've made an outside area

[lucid atlas]

I was originally thinking it might come from Mount Fay since they're right next to eachother

[livid tangle]

Many think it is

[vapid moat]

Maybe the coral stuff will be expanded with the dlc

Since we’ll be in a sea

[edgy nebula]

i personally dont think the high halls water is from karak since it isnt as blue, they probably used it as freshwater to drink or bathe in

it’s possible they just used it all up quickly and resorted to the ducts/pale lake water though, or maybe it’s white now cause it’s full of silk

[frosty gate]

I don't think the color is that relevant

[half horizon]

Yo why doesn't GMS have a mask?

Even the pale king had one

[hidden gazelle]

Hey gang, I am curious. What exactly is the “void”? Is there any characteristic that the game has provided us, like does it silence, control, or etc those infected? Is it just chaotic?

[frosty gate]

PK's mask is a biological mask, he was born with it and it grew with him.

Same as Hornet

I'm guessing Lace's and GMS' mask is just black

[frosty gate]

All we've seen Void do is kill Beings for their Soul and/or Essence

And avoid Lifeblood

[hidden gazelle]

So it consumes their soul and/or essence or just target those with that? (Or do we not have enough info on that)

[plain gazelle]

it's basically anti-soul, it reaches for soul in its close proximity and eliminates it (at least in its natural state)

[frosty gate]

Basically, yeah

I don't know if I would call it Anti-Soul

But it does eat it

[plain gazelle]

yeah anti-soul is a bit speculative for the greater cosmology of the universe which isn't really specified

[plain gazelle]

worth noting that void on its own is not particularly aggressive. it only "infects" people in silksong because everything in pharloom is already "infected" with silk, and it's following the strands of silk out from GMS (since silk is a form of soul)

[frosty gate]

Correct

[glacial warren]

Yeah Silk is a type of refined Soul, so the Void flows out through Silk’s tethers to the Haunted Bugs and corrupts them once it reaches them and drains all the Soul out of them and the Silk.

[upbeat yew]

Guys, do you think hornet's mask is more like an exoskeleton than a mask?

Since she was born with it and such, but isn't made of void, so she technically has a face under that mask

[muted lantern]

It's likely it's a similar case to widow where the mask was part of her but she has a smaller "real" head beneath. The mask is probably a natural protective measure that's from the pharlids biology

But it seems to have some metaphysical properties maintaining someone's sense of self. But even artificial masks do that

Ripping off widows mask was like tearing her face off, as well as metaphorically stripping her of her identity

[lyric rose]

Does the mist give a look at pre-citadel Bilewater? These 3 rooms (the ones you visit at the start of the mist, after 3 rooms of pathfinding, and before the exhaust organ) look like they could be past versions of the exhaust organ and the nearby room connected to the bellway

[muted lantern]

It's hard to tell when masks are artificial or not but presumably weaver masks are natural.

[muted lantern]

Mist is a distorted part of sinners road I think.

It has mostly sinners road detailing

[upbeat yew]

The only weaver mask that seems made rather than natural is herrah's

But that's just because she overall looks different from most weavers

[lyric rose]

These 3 rooms have some geometric similarities; albeit less water and the middle room isn’t as expansive

[upbeat yew]

It might be natural and just look different

[lyric rose]

The color palette also looks a bit similar to pale lake

And the waterfall in Bilewater

[muted lantern]

I imagine she has a horned head under her cloak, not unlike hornet. But the dreamer mask seems artificial as she mentions a time "before the mask" in red memory.

Maybe she's maskless before and put on the dreamer mask

If she's evolved from a drapemite which is one theory she might not have a natural mask like the pharlids.

[upbeat yew]

Yeah

I think hornet's natural mask might come more from her father's side

[muted lantern]

Very possible

Tragic that hornet got the short genes from her father too.

[limpid summit]

Hornet’s mask is probably mostly from Herrah

Her biological one

(Face)

[glacial warren]

I mean she did also inherit her father’s intellect and strategic capacity, his affinity for sawblades, and being a Demigod makes her a hardier creature than most.

[limpid summit]

They have the same horns because Herrah wasn’t initially meant to be a weaver so it was just to differentiate her

They changed her body type but couldn’t change the horns cause that was her connection to Hornet

[glacial warren]

Herrah might look different due to being a Hallownest-born Weaver and not an ‘original’ Weaver/Pharlid.

It’s likely she was born and raised in Deepnest, making her one of the few surviving offspring of the ones who migrated from Pharloom, though she then had to commit the forever sleep to save the world.

[limpid summit]

Shrug

No way to know

[muted lantern]

The weavers might be based on orb weaver spiders (hence the strange design choice of orb heads) and herrah was based on the longhorn orb weaver spider.

Just a possibility

Very different looking critters but both "orb weavers"

[hidden crater]

The weavers are war criminals

[muted lantern]

Idk what this has to do with what I'm saying

[hidden crater]

Out of pocket stuff

[edgy nebula]

their designs were clearly based off of war criminals, not spiders

[muted lantern]

But c'mon that's a cool out of game explanation no?

[hidden crater]

My ancestors are war criminals!

[muted lantern]

I hope they add a horned pharlid in the dlc

[hidden crater]

Why didnt the weavers light gms on fire, are they stupid?

[edgy nebula]

silk is resistant to fire

[muted lantern]

Silk seems notoriously hard to burn since they incinerate the bodies to extract silk from their corpses

[hidden crater]

Damn guess the void gotta do all the heavy lifting again

[muted lantern]

Wisp thicket dudes use special magic fire

With wisps, or flickering flame or wtv

[hidden crater]

Infinite fire glitch

[edgy nebula]

evil magic fire that can destroy soul... are burning bugs void?

[dense sphinx]

Does Lost Lace win against Radiance?

[tawdry flare]

Absolutely not

[edgy nebula]

no

[limpid summit]

Coughing baby

[dense sphinx]

Why?

Lost Lace is made of void

And so is shades

And the shade kills the radiance

I do not understand this logic

Could a Shade win against Lost Lace?

Who fucking knows

[sinful nimbus]

The level of control The Knight has over the void is vastly different from the level of control Lost Lace has over it

TK is controlling like an entire sea of the stuff with Void Heart whereas Lost Lace just uses it for some attacks in a manner similar to Pure Vessel

[drifting walrus]

Rather it’s the void controlling lace and not the other way around

[sinful nimbus]

true

[dense sphinx]

Can anything kill the void or is it eternal?

[drifting walrus]

The void is basically entropy

[sudden imp]

watching the end, it feels like the void has some involuntary way of attacking hornet on her way up, but that the knight comes in and says, "No, not this one, let this one go"