sk-lore

[spark valve]

what is the theory

[sick hemlock]

I saw the guy asking about potential plot holes and discussed whats up with cloakless hornet cuz each crest was like taking the memories and identity of the bugs you got them from to which I somehow blurted out that hornet got the jetstream sam treatment as the lyrics only come WITH the blade as that is who she is

[formal valley]

I came to ask a question

[spark valve]

I mean there may be something there wrt her cloak and needle as a part of her identity and how being deprived of it sort of affects it though at the same time the cloakless hud and even moveset to an extent are based on hunter

[formal valley]

Hi

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet performs Zandatsu on the 3 hearts this is canon

[formal valley]

The subject is probably the thing i wanted to ask. If crests are beyond physical appearance, how they took hornets crest with just stealing her items?

[spark valve]

they probably didn't actually take her crest

[sick hemlock]

The crests came from the bodies of the bugs

[fresh badger]

Hornet says smth about her crests being in her needle?

[formal valley]

Vro r u dumbass

[sick hemlock]

Because you stab into them and you bind

[formal valley]

I mean crests are being BEYOND physical things

How they took hornets crest?

[formal valley]

Its probably the best explanation

[sick hemlock]

If you no no pay attention then you would see hornet stabbing into the body of the bug thing

[spark valve]

<@&283547423706447872> somebody keeps posting and immediately deleting gifs some of which seemed like they had questionable content y'all can check logs

[sick hemlock]

And binding very very hard

to attain the crest

Hunter represents hornet directly I believe

[gentle aspen]

Hi

[sick hemlock]

So yea its more of a 2nd identity written without the cloak and needle

As that basically is just who she is as a person and shes lost that

[formal valley]

Who reaper represents?

[sick hemlock]

Reaper represents the body and memories of the bug that she took it from

[gentle aspen]

farmers

[spark valve]

the crests are the identities of the bugs you get it from so reaper's crest is the identity of a silk snipper guy in that chapel

[formal valley]

No. Its not the lorewise

I mean in that logic wanderer represents knight

[sick hemlock]

Wanderer MIGHT represent knight because its a very similar moveset

[formal valley]

They probably took some things from grimms move set

[sinful nimbus]

Moorbugs when they have to worship the corpse of a random silk snipper because they're bored

[gentle aspen]

I mean it represents random wanderers/pilgrims

[formal valley]

But if you look the so called "wanderer" is actually a dead pilgrim

Probably a bard

So their stories have been told for years

They even buried bugs near their grave

[sick hemlock]

Bonegrave

Quite literally

[formal valley]

I think thats why it comes with musical ensturman

And it doesnt looks like tk's move set actually

If u think abt it, it actually looks like some kind of punching

But from someone who got experted on punching

Like pilgrims

[sick hemlock]

Hm

[formal valley]

Also thats why pilgrims doesnt go directly to the citadel

[sick hemlock]

I wanna note about the way the mosshome pilgrims attack

by throwing their bodies around and stuff

and leaping on

[formal valley]

Yea yea

But that wanderer pilgrim prob experted on punching or that kind of attacks

And pilgrims who came from blasted steps are not going directly to the citadel, instead they go visit 5 bells and even to the bone bottom. Because there were bonegrave once

Until it closed

I think the real pilgrimage is not just "go last judge" its actually requires respect for the greatest pilgrim and 5 holy bells of citadel

[sick hemlock]

Ye

[formal valley]

I also think that elder hu's statute made for it to

Like i dont think elder hu has a connection with shakras tribe

Instead he was just a great pilgrim

And they made statue

I also dont understand how ghosts, dream warriors and even dream realm in hollow knight works

Can someone explain?

[spark valve]

so there's this stuff called essence, it's the substance dreams (which in the context of hollow knight encompass all thoughts) are made of

the dream realm is an expanse made up of all the minds of every being and their thoughts

ghosts and dream warriors are living memories of the dead

[formal valley]

Does their hierarchy comes from how much essence they have?

[graceful grail]

What about the rings that he uses, like Shakras

[spark valve]

probably? it's not really stated but they do give a lot more when you defeat them than the normal ghosts which only give one a piece

[formal valley]

Say that again

[spice patio]

😜

[graceful grail]

I think it’s to do with if the spirit has unfinished business. which is why they’re mostly warriors.

[formal valley]

I dunno but i dont really think so. Like if you look hornet's needle is more closer to the mantis tribe instead of the hive, but she is trained in the hive and her needle made in hive

Also if you look hive knights and vespas weapon looks alike with the pins that citadel guards using

[spark valve]

the distinctive feature of pharloom pins is really the handle which hive weapons don't have

[formal valley]

Maybe that essence particles represent how many people remember you?

[spark valve]

hornet's weapon is probably primarily a weaver design maybe with some modifications

[spark valve]

warrior dreams are all pretty forgotten

[formal valley]

Oh yeah forgot about galien and markoth

[gentle aspen]

It is primarily a weaver design

first sinner uses needles

[spark valve]

when I called them living memories I didn't mean they were memories other bugs had of the dead I mean it's like an echo of the dead bug's mind

[formal valley]

So in the end weapon shape doesnt represents specifically the tribe i think

[spark valve]

first sinner's weapons are a lot more like hornet's yes

[gentle aspen]

the hive after getting some weird ass designs from spiders and going “damn this shit is ass lemme fix it rq”

[spark valve]

there's also gms's weapons but those look a bit more like scissor blades

[sinful nimbus]

What if the weavers lured her into the sealing chamber by promising her a good haircut

[formal valley]

Another question, did radiance created dream realm or essence? Like its been said that she is made from a lot more shiny thing rather than essence but i mean the beinh of ghosts, dream warriors and any dream realm comes with the radiance creating moth tribe. The only thing beyond that is Nightmare heart but it doesnt connects other bugs, its just nightmare heart itself

[spark valve]

she probably didn't create the dream realm or essence she's just a powerful being that exists there, in essence a very powerful living idea

[edgy nebula]

wait a second, are the scissor blades gms uses the scissors that were used to cut her silk off for whiteward?

actually nevermind

[foggy fractal]

that would be awesome

[lone folio]

In essence

[formal valley]

Maybe dream realms are like the thing that people should not achieve or smth. Like if you look, dream essence represents both dead, and sleep/dreams/wishes. The thing we also cannot well-explain in our universe. So i think radiance was there, the only thing that can achieve the dream realm. She tried to create her own tribe and spread the knowledge of death and sleep with others or something

Like if you look how death and sleep is similar to each other

Can we say radiance is god of death?

In most of the mythologies god of death is also god of a disease.

Or despair

Plauge

Infection.

Also people will say that they are seeing "the light" while dying is pretty interesting

[lone folio]

I mean yeah that's because they are dying from the radiances infection which would cause them to see the radiances light in some way

[formal valley]

No i mean in real world.

Not in hk

They inspired radiance from death i think radiance is god of death

[lone folio]

Oh

[spark valve]

rad symbolizes death but that's mostly symbolic and not like a literal domain or anything

[formal valley]

Like not literal "death" but maybe the dead

Dont think it like thanatos

Its more like hades

Maybe

Because she is the first creature which actually can see, talk the dead

And come, go, talk people in dreams

[lone folio]

Can she?

She never talks to a dead person in the game

[formal valley]

Like yeah but she is somewhat can rule to the dream realms

[lone folio]

She could probably communicate with a dream warrior

[formal valley]

I meant ghosts

Like not the literal corpses

But she could probably do what dream nail does to a dead corpse

[lone folio]

Ghosts and dream ghosts are pretty different

[formal valley]

Yea yea the dream people in hk

Including drean warriors and ghosts

The ones you can see after obtaining the dream nail

[lone folio]

Defently

[formal valley]

Yea so i think like that

Basically, its not actually a theoty

Theory*

Its actually more like a shower thought

Like radiance is literally the god of dead in hk universe

But

OH MY GOD

IF ITS LIKE THAT

THAN THE VOID REPRESENTS THE LIFE

THE VOID IS WHERE THE FIRST BUGS CAME FROM

THATS WHY WE HAVE ANCIENT CIVILIZATION STATUES AND SIGNS EVERYWHERE

ITS BECAUSE THEY ARE THE CAVEMEN OF HOLLOW KNIGHT UNIVERSE

THATS WHY

THE LITERAL

LIFBLOOD

SHAPES WITH THE VOID EQUALLY

BECAUSE ITS SOME KIND OF EXTRA LIFE

THATS WHY

HOLY

HOYL

THATS WHY KINGSOUL TURNS INTO VOIDHEART

THE VOID IS THE SHADOW OF LIFE, WHAT WE ACTUALLY FORMED FROM

AND SOUL IS THE LIFE, THE REAL SOUL

THEY ACTUALLY COMPLETE EACH OTHER

THE SOUL CAME FROM PALE BEINGS, THE BODY CAME FROM VOID

thats why vessels made of void is considered to be empty by pale king

He worked on them, realized the void is empty from thoughts and actual feelings without soul

And tried to create something that can learn, but also got rid of feelings and thoughts(learning part comes from the going up from the abyss part)

But that was impossible

He tried to get rid of dreams, creating path of pain

It didnt work

Probably he knew it

Thats why he sat up the white palace in the ancient basin in the first place

There was just no other way to try

[jaunty karma]

being without feelings should not be interested in trying to escape from abyss

because it doesn't have any kind of motivation without feelings

so the plan is stupid imo

[gentle aspen]

no she’s not what

[formal valley]

Think about it

She is the god of dream realm

[gentle aspen]

No

[formal valley]

Which created by essence

[gentle aspen]

she’s just not “god of the dead”

[formal valley]

Just listen

[gentle aspen]

and she’s not god of the dream realm either

[gentle aspen]

Dude the basis for your theory is incorrect

She’s a god of light

[formal valley]

Vro PLS

JUST

[gentle aspen]

not of the dead
Not of dream
Of light

[formal valley]

LISTEN

JUST

LISTEN

[gentle aspen]

The more you say that the less inclined I am to listen

[formal valley]

Vro we literally could not get any information about dream realm without radiance

[gentle aspen]

I read what you said
It just isn’t correct the basis is faulty reasoning or incorrect information

[formal valley]

What is the incorrect info

[gentle aspen]

That’s both not true and not relevant to your point

[formal valley]

??

Tell me how can we learn about dream realm and ghosts/dream warriors

[fresh badger]

Man why does everyone assume higher beings = gods with domain over an element

Like half the higher beings are connected to the expanse of dream

[formal valley]

I do not say that it is. I just realized it

Normally i would think hk higher beings as just chillin creatures

But i thought it and wow why didnt i think thrm like the gods in real world

[fresh badger]

Not from Radiance???? Radiance says nothing abt the dream realm bruh

[formal valley]

Now tell me where i said "tell me how can we NOT LEARN about dream realm" in my sentence

[gentle aspen]

she’s not the god of the dead, she’s a god of light. There are several of them

You then assert void represents life. That’s not how that works. You can’t use an incorrect assumption to assert the opposite for the opposite substance

Ancient civilization statues and signs are everywhere because the ancient civilization was everywhere. That doesn’t make them cavemen, that makes them the previous inhabitants of the land

Lifeblood does not “shape with void” nor is it some kind of extra life

Soul does not come from pale beings, it is lifeforce. It comes from every living thing and is passively found in the environment

Void isn’t empty of thoughts or feelings. That’s like the entire reason PK failed

He didn’t create path of pain to “get rid of dreams” path of pain is his greatest failure and regret and it is totally sealed away, not meant to be viewed

[formal valley]

You are not even answering the question

[gentle aspen]

Literally everything you said or purported was wrong in some way sir

[formal valley]

My theory is all falls apart because you didnt accepted radiance reprssenting dead in the first place

[gentle aspen]

she’s not the only higher being who has power over dreams, a vast majority of them do. Unn dreamed the entirety of greenpath into existence along with the mosskin, WL has massive sensory capabilities and is aware she’s in the Red Memory, the Pale King put his entire palace into the dream realm, the Nightmare Heart also totally exists in the dream realm and the like.

The radiance doesn’t give the most information on that, her people do.

[gentle aspen]

she doesn’t represent death, she represents nature

[gentle aspen]

Like, pretty clearly

[formal valley]

I DID NOT SAID "where do we cannot gather info about dream realm" I SAID WHERE DO WE

JUST TELL ME

[gentle aspen]

Read what is said

genuinely

[fresh badger]

vro 🥀

[gentle aspen]

You can’t assert she represents death because of zombies both lifeblood and the haunting bring back the dead

[formal valley]

No no no

[gentle aspen]

like you’re just incorrect the radiance doesn’t represent death she kills a bunch of people

[fresh badger]

Well iirc he is saying it bc dream ghosts are memories

[gentle aspen]

that makes even less sense

[formal valley]

The only thing that has control over dreams is radiance, unn is not controlling the dreams nor has a control on dreams

[gentle aspen]

that’s false

She made all of greenpath and the mosskin from dreams

[formal valley]

Unn did not dreamed the mosskins unn sacrificed its mind to create them

[edgy nebula]

i think the radiance represents radiance

[gentle aspen]

That’s again blatantly false

[spark valve]

There’s a tablet saying that they walked from her dream

[random harbor]

Lore Tablet: Greenpath - "Green Children"

The Green Children walked from the dream unto these lands.
Here we now shall wait, patient, for the call to return.

@kingoclowns used /lore-tablets area: Greenpath name: "Green Children"

[formal valley]

Yes but the coming from dream is not the same dream that dream realm has

[sinful nimbus]

Hallowscribe in the big 26 ❤️‍🩹

[fresh badger]

...Where is it said that Radiance controls dreams?

[gentle aspen]

are you fucking kidding me

[spark valve]

What makes you say that?

[formal valley]

Like we know that unn has sacrificed its mind to create them

[gentle aspen]

No, we don’t

[formal valley]

What

[gentle aspen]

You keep asserting things as true that aren’t

[formal valley]

Vro what

Stop

[fresh badger]

Vro cite the evidence for your claim then

[gentle aspen]

I’m not gonna stop calling out your misinformation

[formal valley]

Oh my god

It was

It was

Wrong

😢

[sinful nimbus]

I mean creating Greenpath could've taken a toll on Unn tbf she is weakening and constantly napping but her mind wasn't like destroyed or anything and she did dream up Greenpath

[formal valley]

Yes its written

That she lost her powers

With the time

[gentle aspen]

Every piece of evidence for this
“Forgotten god of light”
“The folk of my tribe were born from a light”
“No blazing kin”

“This civilisation may claim itself the first, but something else did exist within this place before Hallownest”

“You may have come upon them, those old statues that seem a store for soul? They too prove its existence, though in a larger, cruder form”

Lifeblood simply doesn’t shape with void and this is a fairly nonsensical thing to assert to be true

“Naturally formed within a crystal over a long period. Draws in SOUL from the surrounding air”

“In my dreams I could see it. The Kingdom's salvation, the cure for the plague... the answer was in the soul that animates our bodies.”

sibling entry “Fragment of a lingering will”

“..Turn it off?...Cannot...
My King. I'm sorry...the sea calls...”

“To witness secrets sealed, one must endure the harshest punishment”

[formal valley]

Also i completely

Forgot about

Abyss creature

Who literally turns the physical space to the dream or some shit i dunno but it has some control over dream realm

Sorry folks

[formal valley]

Please tell me

How

Dream realm

Works

Not for my theory

I just dont know how it works

Like there is a dream realm

Made of essence i think

And also dead peoples ghosts made from essence

Probably their own representing of themselves i dunno

But why some ghosts are better than others

Also sorry for misubderstanding

[rain gate]

from my understanding there's no one "dream realm"
every dream we enter is that of the individual

i could be wrong though

[formal valley]

I say dream realm to the every dream

Its not saying that all of them are same or connected its just seperating them from normal world and the literal term of "dream"

[rain gate]

have you tried the wiki yet?

[formal valley]

Yes i am reading from there

But i dunno where to stsrt where to like i dunno

I prob dont know the details so well its been years from the last hollow knight play i did

But i listed every masked and unmasked enemies both in hk and silksong

[pure turtle]

The Ancestral Mound’s Snail could never

[edgy nebula]

oops

wrong channel

i was wondering why people werent talking

my genius is remarkable

[sinful nimbus]

based..

[limpid summit]

😭😭

[shell magnet]

mr mushroom is doing game references right

[limpid summit]

Meta wise yeah probably

In some of his dialogue

But canonically no

He can’t see into other games

[tawdry flare]

Disappointing. How are we going to have the Team Cherryverse crossover platform fighter now?

[edgy echo]

do we know what “horrible sin” sentenced the flies to the slab forever?

[sinful nimbus]

Nah

[spark valve]

just that (according to the citadel at least) it was bad

[edgy echo]

one of them prolly just like said “the citidel isnt the most amazing perfect place in the world” and banished their entire race to the slab atp 😭

okay what’s the worst thing the citidel did, in yalls opinion?

[silk dirge]

verdania was pretty fucked up

[edgy echo]

yea that’s what i was thinking too

[silk dirge]

i think definitely environmental destruction counting bilewater in there

[sinful nimbus]

Oops all slavery

[spark valve]

it's hard to say with verdania since it's unclear to what extent they were actually involved

cogcore is pretty damn bad

[edgy echo]

bilewater is horrible but not the worst because it wouldve most likely been destroyed by the stilkin overusing soul anyways

[spark valve]

well the soul use was a consequence of the contamination

[silk dirge]

that wouldnt have happened without it becoming polluted

[tacit crown]

uuuuh maybe forcing the people of greymoor to catch threads that fall from the smoke of the Whiteward

or just the entire underworks

[spark valve]

it's hard to top government mandated death and conversion into robots

[edgy echo]

fair

[tacit crown]

trueee, and being forced to be immortal to sing longer

[edgy echo]

lmao

[edgy echo]

i feel like they wouldve abused soul regardless, idk tho

[graceful grail]

Why are White Roses in the Cradle??

Its not from Nyleth, hers are not roses.

[willow bison]

Silk roses?

[edgy nebula]

nyleth does make roses

theyre probably from the citadel's partnership with nyleth

[graceful grail]

There diffrent from the cradle

[edgy nebula]

not really

i think that's just the blue lighting

nyleth's roses may be a little wider but i dont see why they wouldnt be the same

there isnt much of an explanation otherwise

[edgy nebula]

looks like the same to me

[graceful grail]

No green stalk though.

[tacit crown]

there is something called other flowers blocking the view

[muted lantern]

I still cant decide whether its funnier if shakra is comparing hornet to a newborn to make fun of her or she genuinely looks at hornet and thinks shes a baby.

[limpid summit]

Latter

She’s pretty respectful

She just thinks Hornet is a kid

Idk why she has those inhibitions this guy isn’t all that big

Guess he looks old

[muted lantern]

Hey do you guys think the massive mossgrub could survive in the wild? could it be released or would it have to be cared for. Moss grotto has not many predators, but also would it destroy the ecosystem?

[spark valve]

I don't think they would survive

[muted lantern]

Maybe hornet could keep it as a pet

[spark valve]

if they could be despined she'd probably want to

a more likely pet candidate is those fuzzy things in the bellveins

furms

[muted lantern]

Also is the green fur on them moss or fur evolved to mimic moss? i assume its the latter as mossgrubs are called furred

[spark valve]

probably fur

the mosskin have a pretty magical origin that's not like a super normal thing

yeah it's called fur a few times

[muted lantern]

I want to pet the mossive massgrub.

its like the highland cow of silksong enemies

[spark valve]

I mean if you're careful

[muted lantern]

Do the moss creatures feed on moss?

id assume so

maybe mossberries

[spark valve]

I don't remember if we see any eating mossberries, aknids certainly eat them though

[muted lantern]

wait

we see mossgrubs eating dont we?

i think they just eat the moss

Also speculative question, if post act 3 some haunted that werent voided survived, do you think they would have long term effects? Would it just be psychological damage, or physical too from being puppeteered.

[spark valve]

there is that tablet that says silk is wrapped around their organs

doesn't sound healthy but they might survive

[muted lantern]

if they did survive i imagine there would be lasting physical and mental consequences.

[spark valve]

ofc

[muted lantern]

im just not sure what they would be

[spark valve]

even with brief exposure it was rough on pavo

and that was before gms was submerged in void

[muted lantern]

I imagine they would have some kind of brain damage, but im not sure what physical impairments it would cause.

at least those haunted for a long time.

[graceful grail]

Unlike the little ones, when hornet kills the big ones there whole body instantly vanishes and leaves only a mask.

Any ideas??

Also, All the mossgrubs are Female, Any Ideas??

[muted lantern]

when is that last part implied?

[graceful grail]

Big one diologue

[muted lantern]

They could be an all female species that reproduces asexually. We only see moss mothers, no moss fathers.

[graceful grail]

Some bug species can change to fill roles.

Like some ant species the workers can become a queen if the queen dies. Maybe same thing

[muted lantern]

well the ant workers are already female iirc

[graceful grail]

Yeah, but the roles and body function can change is what i mean

[muted lantern]

I wonder is the life cycle of moss grubs grub->mossmir->moss mother? do they all grow into moss mothers? Are the massive mossgrubs still babies just oversized? (they are called grubs) would a massive mossgrub grow into a massive moss mother?

[graceful grail]

I think they all would turn into moss mothers if the citidell diddnt try to preserve the baby form

[muted lantern]

Honestly the moss stuff is such an interesting thing in silksong. i wanna learn more about it. when is moss druid gonna make a moss heart for us?

like it seems like it can overgrow some bugs even

[muted lantern]

Do you think its possible for a massive mossgrub to grow into the next stage or are they stuck like that?

[graceful grail]

I think their size is very superficial in a way because they dissolve when killed when big

Idk

[spark valve]

they're big because they're bred big so it could go either way

[graceful grail]

Maybe they extended their young form with injection of silk to preserve them longer.

.

Question, even though most of the choir is dead husks animated with silk, why are there memories still coming thru when they sing??

Can they feel the sting of hornets needle?? Are they still conscious??

These all have the same Needolin Diologue.

So do TarMites have Lavalugs inside them??

Also, is a Tarmite acctually a Mite?? Seems very Diffrent

[edgy nebula]

mite is probably a general derogatory term for meagre bugs

[graceful grail]

K, but what about my first question??

[edgy nebula]

probably generic needolin dialogue for enemies of that area

[graceful grail]

K, where do Tarmites get the Tar from??

These things EAT the big one i just found out.

Does Gurr think Hornet is the last remaining weaver descendant??

So, i get that Craw like Roseries because they are shiny, so why do the Skar have them??

Why am i poping off like 10 Lore questions at midnight

[muted lantern]

Skarr seem to have adopted them as currency too.

if mottled is anything to go off

they probably used to trade with moorbugs before the haunting.

[muted lantern]

hey im curious. this line when seamstress describes pinstress confuses me: "Met my sister, you did, in order at least." What exactly does it mean? is she saying pinstress is only her sister in that they are part of the same order? i imagine not, they seem like bio siblings with how similar they look, but its an odd line.

[spark valve]

It seems like that’s what she’s saying, they might just look similar because they’re the same type of bug not directly related

[muted lantern]

Hmm. so is it sisters only in more of non literal sense? or are they like adoptive sisters.

by non literal sense i mean stuff like how nuns will call eachother sister

[edgy nebula]

probably non-literally

[spark valve]

Yeah

It’s a sisterhood of warriors

[muted lantern]

interesting. I wonder if it was similar for the nailmasters

they call eachother brothers right?

[edgy nebula]

yeah

[muted lantern]

its been a while since ive read first games text

[spark valve]

Yeah it could be similar

[edgy nebula]

it’s possible theyre not blood related but i dont think itd matter anyway

since they still have an unbreakable bond regardless

[spark valve]

The nailmasters are even more identical than the Pinstress and seamstress

[muted lantern]

they act like real siblings regardless imo

the nailmasters

[spark valve]

Yeah

[muted lantern]

Pinstresses i wonder if their dynamic was sisterly once. They seem to care for eachother somewhat, despite growing distant. they remind me of oro and mato

For the weavers I assume they use the term sister in both literal and non literal senses. sisters in a religious order but also they are also they are essentially gms's adopted daughters. I think only first sinner denied the notion of being gms's daughter since she seems to have been imprisoned for it.

Term sister is used a lot in this game i just realized.

maybe its another theme like motherhood?

idk honestly

[stray fog]

Sotv
Pinstresses
Weavers
Lace and phantom

[muted lantern]

Sister splinter

[stray fog]

True

[muted lantern]

pilgrims also call hornet sister all the time

its interesting the variety of manners the word is used

[blazing venture]

Thats because in religions, such as Islam everyone is a brother or sister and they call each other that

[muted lantern]

ye i know.

[graceful grail]

They seem like the same kind of bugs as the ones in bilewater. But the bile could have made the resedents there more “scrunched”

[azure shard]

i think he meant it like ''Last hunt'' since there was only 1 empty podium left at his cave

[keen raven]

this misinterpretation annoys me

the haunted aren't all "corpses puppetted by only silk"

the silk revives them, it doesn't straight up puppet their dead bodies

honestly agreed the story could have gone without the haunting
would've been much more interesting to go against a more active citadel and not the in-decline one we see in game

[twin dragon]

It wouldn't be as "hollow knight" like

But i do want to see it in city of steel

[keen raven]

I personally see the citadel as a kingdom in decline instead of being dead

[twin dragon]

The haunting doesnt bother me as much because we do fight independant factions in game

[twin dragon]

That's exactly what it is yeah

[keen raven]

the citadel caste arent entirely minded while haunted

[twin dragon]

Pilgrims are still going

[keen raven]

but they arent mindless either

[twin dragon]

Karakas, verdania

Haunted bugs aren't mindless

[keen raven]

they're intelligent enough to not only write down plans but follow orders from gms, also last judge straight up says an entire phrase to hornet
signis is seen lecturing two bugs before his boss fight

plus all of the more informed npcs speak of the haunted more like an enemy faction than a zombie virus

[twin dragon]

Yeah that's what i like

The kingdom keeps functioning to a degree

[keen raven]

"if those choirbugs and their pins come calling" - the snail guy at songclave
"for this place i hold only hate" - green prince
"stay here too long and you'll draw the attention of the citadel caste" - seamstress

i also believe the choral chambers ost is actually canonically playing

due to the fact the voices within the ost disappear during act 3

and only the instrumental is left playing

as if the bringing of the void silenced their voices one final time, and now the cogwork core is left to echo the instrumental

the skarr are also haunted without even knowing they're haunted

they think it's still karmelita's song

[keen raven]

which is why i hate this misinterpretation

[twin dragon]

diegetic music

[keen raven]

makes sense

[twin dragon]

hold on does this happen actually?

if thats true thats such a neat detail

[keen raven]

yes

exact same part of the song

[twin dragon]

Oh

that's so neat

A npc dont remember which one

[keen raven]

im so glad that this is a shared opinion among a few people

i also looked at the file names of the citadel enemies that get revived by silk

they're described as "sleeping"

and the ost that plays when you reach choral chambers for the first time (before the lace encounter) is called "sleeping citadel"

[twin dragon]

says that the citadel has been "silenced" though

[twin dragon]

I don't think this is literal

The entire citadel aesthetic screams that it's in some sort of stasis

[keen raven]

exactly

[twin dragon]

As if with the waking of gms, every bug will be bound to her will

[keen raven]

the "silenced citadel" is referring to the long period in which they were in stasis

[keen raven]

i think its talking about the citadel itself

a lot of npcs refer to the citadel itself as an entity and are usually unknowingly referring to gms

"this place lures them up into its maw just to consume them, just a great gilded lie" - songclave snail guy

[twin dragon]

yeah it is

YK that's an interesting way to look at it

Hornet also closes off this cycle of stasis with the void

[keen raven]

the void is even worse

the void just makes them straight up mindless puppets for itself

[twin dragon]

We dont really know

[keen raven]

eventually consuming their shells into big masses

[twin dragon]

But it probably makes them even more violent

before reducing them to nothing

The shamans really decided to do a hard reset eh?

[keen raven]

theres a tablet down in the abyss that says something along the lines of "our wills... our impurities... abyss. cleanse us."
I assume that's whats happening to those corrupted by the void
they get cleansed of any thought or will

hear me out
hallownest = dead kingdom, medieval level technology, very fair (for the most part) society
pharloom/the citadel = kingdom in decline, industrial revolution level technology, oppressive and harsh society
city of steel = kingdom in its prime, modern/futuristic level technology, absolutely atrocious society (one must imagine how horrid it is for someone to be desperate enough to summon the void just for a chance at escaping it)

[twin dragon]

Thats what the AC tried to do yes

[twin dragon]

If city of steel turned out like this

like battling a kingdom in its prime would be cool

[keen raven]

honestly the citadel is pretty close to that

like the closest thing we have other than coral tower

[twin dragon]

The bar is in hell lmao

[keen raven]

more evidence the haunted aren't mindless

this dude is reciting some prayer or sermon or whatever

[twin dragon]

The mfs with bronze armor are also reading shit

in the vaults

envoys are guiding bugs and singing w em

ballow enemies are working

[keen raven]

not only that but there's one of them that has one of the lightbulb holding guys next to him so he can see the page better

[twin dragon]

Yeah that's their job aswell

[keen raven]

its like team cherry wanted an active kingdom but also wanted a reason for hornet to target gms

and the haunting is a result of a 50/50 compromise

[twin dragon]

I see their vision and i like what they did

but maaan

fighting a kingdom that's just

a bunch of soldiers

n stuff

would be cool

Not really bound by anything aside from maybe an oath

[keen raven]

oh yeah also

widow is haunted

and is able to have an entire conversation with hornet

[twin dragon]

I don't think that widow is haunted

[keen raven]

she is

[twin dragon]

she's described as a literal fanatic

she's doing it out of volution

[keen raven]

I used mods to get into her fight with the needolin

and played it

[twin dragon]

That's an oversight prob

[keen raven]

not only does she have unique dialogue but those strings appeared over her head

[twin dragon]

if there's a godhome we gotta see

[keen raven]

which indicate haunting

[twin dragon]

godhome will determine

[keen raven]

gng she has unique dialogue

wdym oversight 😭

it makes sense for widow to be haunted

[twin dragon]

The string part i mean

[keen raven]

I doubt that very much

[twin dragon]

I don't see how a weaver can be haunted

plus she can talk to hornet n stuff

[keen raven]

obviously she's not using her own silk anymore

[keen raven]

yeah the haunted can speak

last judge says an entire phrase

signis is lecturing two bugs before his boss fight

[twin dragon]

thats true yeah

but also

[keen raven]

theres this dude

[twin dragon]

widow is venerating gms

She's not acting upon her will

[keen raven]

widow doesnt use her own silk anymore

she has to have gms' silk in her body

[twin dragon]

She doesn't really use silk from her body

in any of her attacks

She's using the one around the room

And widow is just crazy lmao

[keen raven]

the haunting makes people crazy fanatics for gms

sounds quite similar hmm

[twin dragon]

I mean not really?

They're bound to her yes but we don't see many of em venerating gms

they act as a whole

almost

[keen raven]

"my soul... my shell. for you!" - haunted pilgrim needolin dialogue

[keen raven]

ehh not really?

[twin dragon]

actually yk

[keen raven]

its not a hive mind

[twin dragon]

maybe you're right

but

i'll hold my opinion till we get godhome

[keen raven]

thats perfectly fair

the only interpretation of the haunting I hate is the one where they're described as mindless and orderless zombies

[whole holly]

guys what are your prediction in Sea of Sorrows?

i think we will have plot twist, i think Murgil the Weavers is going to be alive and well and evade capture by Plasmification, as Plasmium also messes with Eva's Insight, it is possible it may negatively affect GMS's Silken Sight as well

that's just my speculation

[whole holly]

also supported by the fact that Citadel captured Hornet after Infection was gone from Hallownest

[hidden crater]

Imagine we get a politics dlc for silksong

[edgy echo]

what do you guys think will be the final boss / “the absrad” of pharloom’s pantheon?

like, what will be at the pantheon’s peak?

[keen raven]

prime gms

pre falling asleep for 1000 years

if it was another lace fight that'd be the biggest letdown in history

[edgy echo]

LMAO

no but think abt the lore of the pantheon’s peak

the greater infection isnt gms

its more the void

maybe we fight the void lord guy? (i forgor the name)

[light mauve]

Obviously awakened gms

[kindred ingot]

Found Lace

[kindred ingot]

Shade Lord

[edgy echo]

ye that guy

[edgy echo]

awakened gms wouldnt make that much sense given she’s practically killed in act 3

it would prolly be shade lord

ACTUALLY!

awakened gms would be like uh

PV

and then shade lord would be like absrad

[light mauve]

Though I would really like a wyrm to be a boss

[light mauve]

???

He literally saved us

[kindred ingot]

considering what happened to Godseeker in Hollow Knight, my theory is that we'll get to see her corpse in the Abyss and visit Godhome in her memories

[light mauve]

Why would he kill us

[edgy echo]

fair point

they might uh

idk

[light mauve]

Hold up

Is this writing fire

[edgy echo]

actually wait

maybe :O

[light mauve]

So if it will be her memories?

Could we be fighting gods of rain and thunder

[kindred ingot]

wait true

maybe not FIGHT, but they could be there

[light mauve]

Also what if the godseeker attuned to the blackwyrm or pale wyrm

Could we fight one of those too?

[edgy echo]

if it is her memories we’re almost def fighting awakened gms

[edgy echo]

how??

[kindred ingot]

they tried doing that to Pale King, but he was way too dead

[light mauve]

Memories

[light mauve]

Ohh

[edgy echo]

both of em are super dead

[kindred ingot]

also, if it is her memories, we could have a chance to see Radiance again (not saying it will happen, but it is a possibility)

[edgy echo]

they cant have memories if theyre practically rocks atp lmao

[edgy echo]

i doubt that but it could be possible

cuz she might not have seen the radiance considering pharloom was never infected

[light mauve]

Lame

[kindred ingot]

and something else I thought of earlier is that Grimm was fully aware during Godhome, like, you can dream nail him and he speaks like he knew what was going on
so he probably remembers it

[light mauve]

Why?

If we are talking about godseeker corpse from hollow knight

That probably got transported via everbloom to pharloom

[edgy echo]

i thought you meant gms’s memories sry

[light mauve]

Isn’t that the point

[edgy echo]

im stupid lmao

[kindred ingot]

yeah I was confused too

like "what do you think I said?"

[light mauve]

I think gods of rain and thunder are the most likely choice

[edgy echo]

eh

only if it’s godseeker

but still doubtful, because the pantheon’s peak would prolly be the same

godseeker calls the gods of rain and thunder false gods, doesnt she?

then they wouldnt be at the pantheon’s peak

i do think though

if it is godseeker we prolly fight shade lord

because that’s the last and most powerful god she saw

in pantheon ending

[light mauve]

I mean they would appear

[light mauve]

He is out of the godseekers control tho

[kindred ingot]

I mean, Shade Lord is at Pantheon's peak now

[light mauve]

He can invade the pantheons

[kindred ingot]

so if Hornet wants to get to the peak, she has to defeat them

[light mauve]

And destroy them again

Maybe we will be defending against him?

Like

[edgy echo]

it doesnt matter that the godseeker cant control shade lord

[light mauve]

Saving the pantheons

[edgy echo]

cause

its memories

if she remembers the shade lord

that means we can fight them

[light mauve]

Also

Can’t he just destroy everything in the memories

[edgy echo]

eh

memories work

weirdly

i think the godseeker could contain a remembered / weakened version of the shade lord

because memories are idealized/altered by whoever remembers them

[light mauve]

I think

Whatever we are gonna fight at the peak

Would be either gms

Or something from one of the next dlcs

[edgy echo]

it cant not be shade lord lmao

theres just too much lore and importance with them

[light mauve]

Of course it can be not him

[kindred ingot]

basically what I think is gonna happen

[light mauve]

That’s the knight

[edgy echo]

we can certainly fight those other guys

[edgy echo]

THE KNIGHT IS THE SHADE LORD

smh

[kindred ingot]

the Knight, Shade Lord, same bug

[edgy echo]

the shade lord will be at the pantheon’s peak, but we’ll prolly also fight awakened gms

[gentle aspen]

why would we fight them

[gentle aspen]

matter of fact why would godseeker even be there at all

[gentle aspen]

that simply doesn’t work to redo

[edgy echo]

smh

read the entire thing

[light mauve]

A corpse, memories

Yeah

[gentle aspen]

“A corpse” she left none

[light mauve]

Maybe teleported

We don’t know

[kindred ingot]

cuz she got eaten by the Void, which we have access to

[edgy echo]

memories is why we fight them, pantheon everbloom ending is why she teleported

[light mauve]

But I think there will be some substitute for that

[gentle aspen]

she didn’t get teleported her body is entirely gone

[light mauve]

What about the knight

Is he also gone

[gentle aspen]

no
the knight is able to leave the dream realm

godseeker can’t just leave, her physical form has entirely disappeared

[light mauve]

But he was also affected by the everbloom

[gentle aspen]

read what I said

[light mauve]

What

[kindred ingot]

what if the Flower ending isn't the true ending

[gentle aspen]

Godseekers body is gone in both versions

That doesn’t matter

Its either destroyed by the void mass or destroyed by the flower

[kindred ingot]

it's never stated that her corpse is gone, just that it was taken over by Void

[gentle aspen]

it doesn’t need to be stated, you can see dream no more and note how the exact same phenomenon happens with the black egg

[light mauve]

What is this guy on about

[edgy echo]

dream ≠ memory btw

[gentle aspen]

and if you’re gonna go “it isn’t stated” it also isn’t stated that her body was taken over by void

[gentle aspen]

memories are dreams

[edgy echo]

IT LITERALLY IS WHAT ARE YOU ON

[edgy echo]

NO THEY ARENT

[gentle aspen]

this is very explicitly in the narrative

[kindred ingot]

you know how GMS was taken over by Void, but her corpse still exists?
that's what I think happened to Seeker, except she's dead

[gentle aspen]

Yes, it is. Seer’s dialogue explicitly confirms this

[gentle aspen]

GMS wasn’t taken over by the void dude

What?

[edgy echo]

WHERE
theres no dreamcatchers

[edgy echo]

have you even played silksong?

[kindred ingot]

have you played act 3? that's kinda the whole plot

[gentle aspen]

No it isn’t

the whole plot is that she is fighting against it

what?

[edgy echo]

get out bro it literally is

[light mauve]

No her corpse was probably completely destroyed by the pressure of the void

[gentle aspen]

no dude this is completely false she is struggling against the void

[light mauve]

Uh where is she taken over by the void

[gentle aspen]

Yeah, she is making a cocoon and not getting consumed by the void

come on guys this is like explicit

[prime mantle]

the cocoon is full of void tho its what you fight on

[gentle aspen]

Chapel Maid: Even knowing her motivation, it is a shock the monarch can resist so long. We'd thought none could survive that void.
Hornet: She will have retreated within her protective form, that cocoon of thread. Even as the dark eats its outer, she will spin its Silk anew.

[kindred ingot]

she's doing the OPPOSITE of making a cocoon, she's losing silk

[gentle aspen]

READ THE DIALOGUE

[kindred ingot]

no wait

nvm

I'm wrong about that

but not the rest

[light mauve]

??

[prime mantle]

but shes not void controlled or whatever whats the argument

[edgy echo]

well

[kindred ingot]

yeah I'm wrong about that one

[light mauve]

Leaking

[edgy echo]

she will become controlled by void to some extent

[light mauve]

??

[gentle aspen]

Well yes
she can’t keep all of it out and a vast majority of the void is connected to her threads to consume them

[edgy echo]

if the cocoon can block void, she’ll at least stay preserved in the void

[gentle aspen]

the entire point of act 3 is that she isn’t being controlled by void

[kindred ingot]

I said that it could be possible that we see Godseeker's corpse in the Abyss cuz she was taken over by the Shade Lord and we meet the Shade Lord in the Abyss

[edgy echo]

i said she will become

[edgy echo]

not that she is

[gentle aspen]

That also isn’t true

she will just die

[light mauve]

Yeah but after the fight her corpse is completely destroyed by void pressure

[gentle aspen]

she’s not being preserved the moment the cocoon goes down she gets killed and consumed

[prime mantle]

godseekers not really void controlled either he just flicks tentacles out of her, we dont really know what happens to her besides that

[edgy echo]

fine ig

[gentle aspen]

we do know what happens

in dream no more you can see the black egg having a bunch of void escape it and it gets destroyed

[edgy echo]

we’ll still fight shade lord though lmao

[spark valve]

that would sure suck

[kindred ingot]

yeah, my theory is that we will later see her corpse in the Abyss cuz the Shade Lord went to Pharloom's Abyss

[gentle aspen]

in embrace the void the knight is leaving the mind space of the godseeker to go to the physical realm

[gentle aspen]

in both scenarios the large amount effectively vaporizes the link between corporeal and incorporeal dreams

[prime mantle]

the egg is just magic rock though, maybe godseeker was a really good worshiper so shade lord keeps her after getting out. but yeah prolly dead

[gentle aspen]

godseeker is a chick and tk doesn’t care about being worshiped

[kindred ingot]

I know she's dead, what I'm saying is we'll get to see her corpse later cuz she's in the Void and we go to the Void

at least that's my theory

[gentle aspen]

there wouldn’t be a corpse left over

[prime mantle]

why would he carry it for however many years and distance to there if there was

[edgy echo]

will there be lifeblood in godhome? cuz we did leave some in hk but also it’s a memory

[light mauve]

The pressure under the void should be colossal

[prime mantle]

i hope so you could od with another crest

[kindred ingot]

maybe it just went with them cuz where else would it go to?

[light mauve]

She probably combusted

[edgy echo]

silk can resist the void, we know that

[light mauve]

😔

[prime mantle]

like, stayed in the waterways?

[light mauve]

She gave all her silk to protect lace and hornet bro

[gentle aspen]

okay? Godseeker has nothing to do with silk

[spark valve]

when gms dies in the void after the ending she gets destroyed not taken over

[gentle aspen]

and if you’re saying gms is silk doesn’t resist the void

she’s making a barrier that is continuously being eaten away

[foggy fractal]

yummy silk

[light mauve]

Moreover none of that silk is left after the fight

[gentle aspen]

yeah

She’s like, gone. If she was “taken over” the black threads wouldn’t disappear

[spark valve]

and you see her threads throughout the kingdom get destroyed as they're no longer sustained

[kindred ingot]

a really bad drawing of what I'm imagining

[edgy echo]

well, i think as a higher being, gms cant be taken over by void, because the masks of the vessels can contain it to an extent

[edgy echo]

actually that could work

[light mauve]

Why would there be silk in the abyss

[gentle aspen]

were you not just arguing that she will become taken over by the void

[kindred ingot]

GMS is there

[gentle aspen]

I mean, Hornet wouldn’t be able to access this no

[light mauve]

Oh right, before the ending

[edgy echo]

ive changed my mind cuz of yall

[gentle aspen]

If it follows after sisters of the void like you presume then she doesn’t have an everbloom

[gentle aspen]

neat

[kindred ingot]

Elegy of the Deep
and if you mean physically, they could add a new room idk

[kindred ingot]

they did it with Grimm

[light mauve]

I think they should just make a huge void expansion

Because that’s what tc was planning in hollow knight

[low oracle]

Before anything they should add a godhome type dlc. I want to be able to do bossfights without starting a new save file every time.
We should also be able to customize our needle upgrade though, since early bosses are unfortunately not fun otherwise.

[tawdry flare]

they’re probably doing that last because then you have all the bosses and can design the layout of the area based off that

but godhome 2 is unconfirmed so maybe they wont even do it

[low oracle]

Sucks though.

[low oracle]

If they don't do it, they are wasting the easiest dlc for no reason.

[light mauve]

That’s obviously the last one

[low oracle]

NOOOOO

Please TC, prove this guy wrong.

[sonic solar]

just use mods

if your on pc

[low oracle]

Well guess what...

[viscid ridge]

Can i ask what this is? Cause this makes no sense to me out of context 😅

[frosty gate]

What is the topic today

[light mauve]

???

What are you surprised about

[kindred ingot]

it's supposed to be my take on how we'll get a Godhome dlc. The mask is Godseeker's (she's dead, but she was killed by the Shade Lord, so it'd make sense that at least a part of her would be in Pharloom's Abyss)

[viscid ridge]

Ooh i understand now

[low oracle]

Hot take:
Team Cherry will elaborate shit and just give us a fully functional godseeker, maybe a different one if they feel like it.

[kindred ingot]

weren't all of them inside Godhome?

[viscid ridge]

I personally hope that godhome would be in pharloom aswell, but in my personal interpretation the godseeker endings aren't canon (more like a au of sorts), so godhome is still good in well intact. But i also heard people say maybe the steelhearts are gonna act as a bossrush, because zi is said to catalog pharloom.

[whole holly]

in any case Godhome should be last to not have to have messy adjustment whenever DLC introduces a new boss

[viscid ridge]

Like its probably gonna be something else, but i really hope we get the godseekers again.

[whole holly]

it seems like it, Steel Hearts feel like good fit tbh

[foggy fractal]

"Gods of Thunder, Gods of Rain! Why forsake thy servants? Will Our minds be left suffering, to ache alone?"
"...Our mind a sea..."
yeah

[twin dragon]

IF we get godhome again

it better have the lands of thunder in its prime

AND better lore

[viscid ridge]

Yeah, if we get the godseekers, i hope its a new one, but godhome will function the same considering they all share a mind

[whole holly]

maybe godseeker's have another backup body, would be funny

[viscid ridge]

Nah 🤣

[kindred ingot]

Godseekest

[twin dragon]

What if we find a compressed godseeker

in the city of steel

and we js access its mind

[kindred ingot]

a what Godseeker

[twin dragon]

Yes hidraulic press crushing is a rea punishement

[frosty gate]

Compressed

[tawdry flare]

Lets not bring back the Godseekers thanks

[viscid ridge]

We still dont fully understand compression, so we'll see but i doubt it

[frosty gate]

Mods, compress this man's balls

[whole holly]

i mean Steel Hearts could replace them and that's golden idea

[kindred ingot]

why not?

[kindred ingot]

I'd rather have them be their own thing

maybe another game

wait

[tawdry flare]

Same reason the void shouldn’t have returned

[kindred ingot]

Quirrel Game

[viscid ridge]

"I cast testicular torsion" 🪄

[kindred ingot]

but the void should have returned, I liked it

[tawdry flare]

Of course you did……

[kindred ingot]

what did I do???

[twin dragon]

The void needed more foreshadowing

[kindred ingot]

I just kill Fourth Choruses

[twin dragon]

and it would've been great

[tawdry flare]

Sorry I just gotta be a hater

[kindred ingot]

I did nothing wrong

[twin dragon]

but for now its a decent plot device

Like hornet does some shit in deep docks

[whole holly]

they can be their own thing, Shamans , Weaver and Pale King all messed with void and are still distinct characters

[twin dragon]

and she fishes a void thingy

[twin dragon]

And yk

they've been foreshadowing

[viscid ridge]

I always had the feeling that void is everywhere, and i kinda feel like it should have been left as an easter egg, not as a major part of the plot. Dont get me wrong, what we got wasn't bad, but i feel they should have focused on silk and song more

[twin dragon]

these guys

with the void

for quite a bit now

[twin dragon]

I mean

the game is already focusing on it a lot

hell, a big plot point of act 3

is related to silk n song

[whole holly]

Song needs more focusing as part of game

[tawdry flare]

Too bad. You get void

[whole holly]

i mean Act 1 was only foreshadowing it

[kindred ingot]

speaking of Steel, it's interesting how they seem to come in pairs. A lil guy that summons void, and a Steel-something that speaks weird

[whole holly]

we will get DLC

[viscid ridge]

But i mean in terms of more alternative endings that involves them. Like the cut bellshrines and tuners. I personally would have rather have those instead of the void trap

Or something of the sort

[tawdry flare]

The first DLC is Lifeblood related. Lifeblood has ties to the void. You’re getting void

[kindred ingot]

it's the whole plot of act 2

[whole holly]

yeah Sula and Jiji seem to be same species, molluscs perhaps, idk what they look like

[whole holly]

not really

[twin dragon]

where

[kindred ingot]

don't you mean Jiji?

[whole holly]

i get that but Song is still underrated

[twin dragon]

song is overused

not mechanically

[viscid ridge]

Jiji and sula are more like spiders funnily anough. They both look like tarantulas

[kindred ingot]

those are the lil guys that summon void

[twin dragon]

While silk is a 4 in 1 thing now

[whole holly]

i agree thematically sure, but mechanically it is underdeveloped

[twin dragon]

Im willing to accept it

because yk

[viscid ridge]

Yeah very tarantula like

[twin dragon]

the entire plot

is centered around silk

[twin dragon]

Needolin is a bit meh ish i agree

[kindred ingot]

and those are the weird Steel-things

[tawdry flare]

Don’t call them weird 💔

[twin dragon]

Wish the hearts sang more

aside from karmelita

[whole holly]

yeah it is Soul + Essence + Song + Infection?

[viscid ridge]

Yeah from what zi says they are like their assistants

[kindred ingot]

also they seem to have some kind of gem in their chest

[whole holly]

me too, Nyleth was voice of the woods

[viscid ridge]

But not by their own free will though

[twin dragon]

Maybe its similar to the infection in some way? but that's a gms only thing and it is somewhat different, essence can be explained maybe? but we don't get much on it, silk is not song

[kindred ingot]

assistants on what? what do they even do? summon void and eat eggs?

[twin dragon]

and yes it's literally soul

[kindred ingot]

the Steel-things don't even do anything

[whole holly]

i think it will be highly advanced and skilled society, surpassing every other civilization we know

[twin dragon]

Like yeah something something elegy of the deep draws out the essence out of the souls of bugs n makes a memory with it yap yap i just made it the fuck up

[viscid ridge]

Like they are tasked to do stuff for them, thats why we were given the quest to capture sula, cause she wasn't obeying zi

[kindred ingot]

yeah but we have no idea on what kind of stuff

[whole holly]

but Song can only be done with Silk but i want to ask what is 4-in-1 in your opinion, what are 4 things that make up Silk

[viscid ridge]

The specifics on their jobs idk, i guess its just to collect stuff and gather information and such

[twin dragon]

No what

Song can't only be done with silk???

[kindred ingot]

up to this point, they kinda just exist

[viscid ridge]

Or void based stuff

[twin dragon]

Karmelita???

melodies???

[kindred ingot]

literaly any other instrument ever

[twin dragon]

I just made the number up

[tawdry flare]

Sherma

[twin dragon]

jerma

[whole holly]

for Weavers, and gameplay and us yes, we only do it with Silk

[twin dragon]

So it sounds like an ad

[twin dragon]

Oh wow guess why that might be

just take a guess

idk

take a guess

[whole holly]

is it possible sherma's song prevented him from getting haunted?

[viscid ridge]

Like from my interpretation, zi isn't able to move from her spot, be that she physically cant or is doing something that makes her stay in the room, so she sends out her vassel to do stuff she cant

[twin dragon]

And even then, needolin acts as an instrument and catalyst for song magic when replicating melodies, not always dependant on silk

[tawdry flare]

Yeah

[twin dragon]

she fucking teleports

[whole holly]

no need to be sarcastic about it... but Silk's connection to Song is unneeded, and scrapped Attunement Concept feels like it was properly it's own thing but now it feels inherently inferior to Dream Nail in every way

[twin dragon]

What if she can't teleport

how did she get there

[twin dragon]

Dream nail is also kinda bullshit

[kindred ingot]

she was brought there by someone else

[viscid ridge]

Who knows

[whole holly]

at least it was unique and actually interesting

[twin dragon]

Silk isn't really dependant on song that much

[twin dragon]

Oh wow! dream magic!

its so cool!

It's only interconnected because weavers learnt to do shit with silk and song

[whole holly]

SilkSong feels like Silk+Void instead of Silk+Song

[twin dragon]

Silksong feels like silk+song+void

[kindred ingot]

also, about Steel-things, it's weird how the Steel-thing in Silksong isn't related to Styx at all
I mean, Jinn was related to Jiji, and Styx is Silksong Jiji

[tawdry flare]

The Needolin is SICK!!

Not very useful in combat but it’s SICK!!

[twin dragon]

Song isn't lacking

[kindred ingot]

instead, Styx turned into a weird Nosk-like thing

[twin dragon]

maybe somewhat in gameplay

but its everywhere

[whole holly]

but compared to Silk, Song is underused, pharloom was described as being haunted by Silk and Song, but it was just silk

[twin dragon]

and that's because the base version of the needolin is mid

[kindred ingot]

does that imply Nosk is related to Steel stuff or am I going way too far?

[whole holly]

Spider Strings don't even do anything

[twin dragon]

It is also haunted by song

everyone is using song

the lands are plagued with it

[whole holly]

sure but haunting is itself unrelated to song...

[twin dragon]

And for all we know the haunting could be some sort of melody

[whole holly]

lands are plagued with Song, Skarrsinger Karmelita wards of haunting by her song...

[whole holly]

that's somewhat baseless though

[twin dragon]

yes i know

The entire kingdom works on silk and song though

and the reason why the haunting is even a thing

is because of song

[kindred ingot]

chat am I cooking? (probably not)

[twin dragon]

why nosk

what

[tawdry flare]

You’re insane

[whole holly]

i wouldn't say lands are plagued with song, only GMS is, especially since Song is automated, Silk is only thing that does something to the Pharloom

[twin dragon]

TC forgot about nosk 490 years ago

[viscid ridge]

Cause people think skynx is a nosk type bug, but i personally doubt it

[twin dragon]

everyone knows how to sing and their song may or may not do something

[kindred ingot]

cuz in Steel Soul Mode, Styx (Silksong's Jiji) turns into Skynx, which is a Nosk-like creature

[twin dragon]

Plus the citadel of SONG is also mainly SONG

[twin dragon]

Doesn't mean its nosk

We don't know enough about nosk

[kindred ingot]

I know it's not THE Nosk, but it COULD mean that Hollow Knight Nosk has something to do with Steel Soul Stuff

[twin dragon]

to ensure its nosk

Genuinely i don't see how its a nosk variant

[whole holly]

only in name and theme

[twin dragon]

Gameplay wise there is a shit ton of bell and string music mechanisms what

Making shit up now

Anyways i wished for the old hearts to be more song based

because

all pharloom sings

to save pharloom

would be tuff

[kindred ingot]

Hollow Knight: Corpse Run Helper -> Steel-thing
Silksong: Corpse Run Helper -> Nosk-like Creature??? and Steel-thing is unrelated???

[viscid ridge]

Honestly i wouldn't worry about song for the moment. Hopefully team cherry adds a hidden dreams type expansion for the song part of the game

[twin dragon]

Mfs when they see something has an inverted mask and 2 limbs

[kindred ingot]

that COULD mean Nosk from Hollow Knight has something to do with Steel Stuff

[whole holly]

1. bells don't do anything 2.needolin in base is bad even if you have spider string equiped 3.i was talking about Citadel of Song, since that's message i replied to

[twin dragon]

holy zote is a vessel theory

[kindred ingot]

it also speaks like Styx and mimics Styx's actions and speech patterns

[twin dragon]

Some enemies use song and they sing and do shit, and there are several mechanisms involving bells what

[twin dragon]

Ok zote has 2 horns that looks like TK's

even bretta confuses zote with TK

therefore

zote is TK

NO

zote is a tk nosk

[kindred ingot]

not what I said

[whole holly]

hope we get Sirensong in Sea of Sorrow

[twin dragon]

Heart of the seas

[twin dragon]

Ik, but you get it

[kindred ingot]

Zote is a joke character that is similar to the Knight as a joke

as far as I know, Nosk, Styx, and Skynx aren't joke characters

[twin dragon]

leviathan class lifeforms in sea of sorrow

[viscid ridge]

My personal theory is that skynx is a female of styxs species and she ate him, and ripped off his mask like a mantis lol

[whole holly]

1. name them 2. bells in benches don't do anything substantial

[kindred ingot]

you can't just ignore the similarities

[tawdry flare]

Huntress is a female of Styx’s species. Not, uh, whatever Skynx is

[viscid ridge]

Hopefully we'll get some crabs

[whole holly]

we did, though

[twin dragon]

Fucking envoys, maestros, the citadel pilgrims, vaultkeeper dudes, also cardinius has a tuff gramophone