sk-lore

[cunning carbon]

It’s a reference

[upbeat galleon]

Wsp ppl

[edgy nebula]

tube containing what looks to be a coral spike

why are so many of the messages above deleted???

who was that

[foggy fractal]

it was me

[hidden crater]

Lore chat losing their mind bruh 😂😂😂😂😂

[muted lantern]

andy what blasphemy did you say

[edgy nebula]

just now realizing, this does kinda really confirm that karak fell post-goldenage, cool

[robust wagon]

Bed pissers 🔥

[robust wagon]

And the whole rest of the coral area in the Memoriam, yeah

[jolly bronze]

karak stuff ig

[teal sinew]

is there lore about the purpose of memorium

why did they try to "remember"

and why was verdania deemed destined to be forgotten

didnt gms kill out all 3 other civilizations all the same

[jagged sun]

It's both a museum and a hall of trophies

[gentle aspen]

it’s meant to be a sort of zoo/protective area for the places the citadel fucked over

[teal sinew]

so the general consensus is that it's pharloom equivalent of a british museum

[gentle aspen]

yes

[gleaming axle]

Well that supposed to be a big river if it crossed Pharloom in half, but why mother silk blocked water to the sands of Karak? Like you already have water? Or i don't understand...

[whole holly]

where is this?

[whole holly]

i found it in materium room

[foggy fractal]

yay

[spring merlin]

I wonder what that reminds me of

[whole holly]

do we think Sea of Sorrows might include Abyss Creature?

[whole holly]

or is it going to be another tease?

[foggy fractal]

maybe maybe not

[whole holly]

i don't want another Godhome appearance, i want lore or bossfight similar to Absolute Radiance in scale

[foggy fractal]

we'll see

I have a feeling its not gonna be another godhome appearance but I also had a strong belief that void isn't gonna be involved in silksong and then silksong released I'm just gonna not believe in anything until dlcs actually release now

[whole holly]

i almost know for sure that they are going to have memory with Abyss Creature in it and limit it to that... at least until Pantheon of Pharloom DLC drops

[graceful grail]

Life Blood Beast??

[whole holly]

yeah

[graceful grail]

Prob, but it only exists in the dream world so idk how they would implement that

[whole holly]

Dreams are memories

[graceful grail]

Yeah, but it ellegy of the deep seems to bypass the use of essence and use silk or just the power of song instead

[whole holly]

memories may also be made up of essence, we just use Shaman Song instead though our needolin ability, which is different medium but lore-wise still very similar

[mighty sand]

Yo gng I wanna clarify smth since I brought this up and immediately got flamed, are the weavers the children (adopted) or gms?

Like figuratively

[whole holly]

i guess they are adopted because they are ascended from pharlids into weavers by GMS, and they became her children after that but GMS couldn't have biological children, Lace and Phantom are her somewhat biological children but they require lots of silk to be maintained

[mighty sand]

Ok thx

[whole holly]

no problem

[mighty sand]

I mentioned this to argue that Hornet is like a sister-figure for lace and immediately got demolished😭

[whole holly]

Lace is aunt (that is also a child) basically to hornet, making ships kind of weird

[mighty sand]

Exactly what I said

I see them as older n younger sisters

[whole holly]

that makes more sense

[mighty sand]

I KNEW at least someone would back me up

Alr thx n cya

[whole holly]

bye

[gentle aspen]

yes, they are.

[wise ember]

It’s up for interpretation, imo. The game itself never proclaims it to be canon

A lot in the game is actually just guessing, so taking such things for granted is just a very stable opinion

Saying “yes” or “no” just seems stupid as a whole for a game so open with its lore and having lot of gaps in it where we as players could only give our own idea of how we see it

[gentle aspen]

I mean she’s not a sister like figure but they do have a relation to GMS

[foggy fractal]

hey guys

[wise ember]

That, is again, not specifically canon

[crimson patio]

Said relation is her giving them sentience

[graceful grail]

Dont forget that gods typically lean towards whats known as the spirit of adoption. (Which means they think of them as their actual children.)

[gentle aspen]

it is canon, though?

What?

[wise ember]

Giving someone sentience doesn’t make u a blood related figure

[crimson patio]

Are all PK’s subjects siblings too then?

[gentle aspen]

I didn’t say they were blood related?

[steep jetty]

That’s what I’m saying

[wise ember]

By this logic we can say collector is pk child

😭

[gentle aspen]

what are you even talking about

[wise ember]

Okay then, family bond counts in that too

That’s a bad take on my part, apologies

[graceful grail]

True, but gods typically think it does…

[gentle aspen]

GMS was effectively the weaver’s mother figure. GMS was also lace’s mother figure. This isn’t suddenly not canon its a simple fact

[graceful grail]

Ok, but GMS put her Silk in the pharlids. And GMS is ENTIRELY silk.

[whole holly]

Grand Mother Silk means something you guys, she literally called Weavers daughters

[crimson patio]

And First Sinner’s issues meant nothing at all

Rightttt

[whole holly]

yeah, she gave weavers her silk, making them similar to GMS in physiology

[native stirrup]

Damn! The citadel is her family!!

[gentle aspen]

again, no one said otherwise?

[native stirrup]

Didn’t know GMS have such a big family tree!

[crimson patio]

Whiteward is is Hornet’s aunt…

[mighty sand]

And then becoming a (bad) mother figure for them

[gentle aspen]

but she is their mother
First Sinner is just going “it isn’t blood so it doesn’t matter”

[graceful grail]

Head shape

[whole holly]

Grand Mother Silk considered Weavers her daughters, Whiteward doesn't caught because Citadel Bugs weren't ascended, Weavers were... why is everyone being disingenuous, Weavers were given Godly abilities that GMS had...

[mighty sand]

N even if you argue they aren’t biologically related that doesn’t change the fact that she was their mother figure

[gentle aspen]

This is also like, wrong? It’s equating what PK did to regular non sapient creatures and what GMS did to the weavers

[gentle aspen]

She didn’t just make them sapient, they literally physically transformed to look similar to GMS and gained her abilities

[prime mantle]

first sinner is throwing a fit bc she's adopted... she literally says gms called them daughters idk how lacenetters miss this

[native stirrup]

Mother figure was right, but it doesn’t mean they’re like, related, it’s like idolization more like

[mighty sand]

Exactly bru rebelling doesn’t just immediately cut off all relations

[gentle aspen]

the main thing isn’t “first sinner is mad she isn’t related to gms” the main thing is that their relationship was built on falsehoods and it brings into question their whole relationship

She was also a really bad mother aside from that

[wise ember]

On note: a lot of here don’t even like lacenet as far as I’m concerned , I, for example, just here to have a good discussion 🫰

[prime mantle]

im extrapolating yeah

[whole holly]

that somewhat undermines ascension process which allowed Weavers to literally inherit GMS's abilities

[mighty sand]

Nah ur fine ur the only one not constantly being condescendingly sarcastic

[graceful grail]

What did it mean that Atla could weave time?

[gentle aspen]

We don’t know

[stray fog]

I don't see it

Whats the similarity

[prime mantle]

she might be able to keep memories or history sealed or woven, we have seen memories be sealed before

[graceful grail]

Head shape and lower body shape of gms

[mighty sand]

Mama silk’s abdomen big n round. Weaver heads big n round. COINCIDENCE?????

[graceful grail]

Nah

[stray fog]

Yeah it's a coincidence

[native stirrup]

Still wouldn’t make them any more related my guy

[graceful grail]

Think about it

[wise ember]

But that doesn’t really make them family related? It’s like a god giving a random guy some superhero powers
Does that make them family related?

Again, I don’t wanna come off as rude, just a genuine question

[prime mantle]

they are related because she considers them daughters, not because she raised them

[mighty sand]

Cuz of the reason she ascended them
Correct me if I’m wrong but it looks like gms had several attempts at making “children” in a sense, also she literally refers to them as her children according to first sinner so ye

[mighty sand]

Finally

[prime mantle]

though i guess they're kinda related in the silk sense too but that doesn't necessarly have to be a familial relationship

[whole holly]

they inherited GMS's physiology, they are equivalent of Genetically relation as GMS is silk mostly and has unique abilities that Weavers inherited

[steep jetty]

The weavers did however rejected GMS as a mother figure, including spiritually.
Would that really make it family, would it now?

It’s more possession than a family bond if anything

[gentle aspen]

Yes????

[mighty sand]

They are kinda biologically related but that’s still not my point

[gentle aspen]

Rejecting family doesn’t mean you aren’t still family

[whole holly]

i mean GMS doesn't have blood, she is made of Silk and has her unique abilities, what else is GMS's Child supposed to inherit that Weavers don't already have?

[mighty sand]

No one said it was a healthy family relationship it’s obviously possessive

[wise ember]

Plus this relationship between a whole race and a god could be considered as just a cult following of someone to be considered an idol, by this same logic, we can say that god created humanity and none can be with each other cuz it’s controversial

[gentle aspen]

It’s meant to be a bad family representation but it is still familial

[gentle aspen]

I’m confused on what you’re even trying to say here

[whole holly]

that's not it any way equivalent, sure Hornet and Lace aren't related in direct sense but Lace is child and still can't be shipped with Hornet.

[mighty sand]

This whole argument just started cuz I made a weird joke abt lacenet shippers shipping characters from the same “family” tree

[native stirrup]

Lace is anything but a child

[gentle aspen]

we’re not doing this

shutting it down before it starts

[whole holly]

she is, she has mind and body to match, she is a child in every way that matters

[mighty sand]

😭

[whole holly]

didn't read this, on time

[wise ember]

Again!! I am not arguing, but just asking why can’t interpretations exist in such demeanour

[mighty sand]

Yeah they literally say that

[graceful grail]

He is saying an analogy, like, if God made Dirt from his word (which is is being), then made man out of said dirt. He considers himself our father.

Same thing with GMS

[steep jetty]

Same reason as Taiyo though as to why I’m here—here for a good discussion but I have seen questionable thoughts here

[mighty sand]

I never said they couldn’t, if anything MY interpretation being rejected is what started all this

[gentle aspen]

Yeah... he considers us our father. That's like, explicitly in the Bible

[wise ember]

Thank you for elaborating this champ🙏

[native stirrup]

Lotta to discuss that’s for sure

[gentle aspen]

what is the point of the analogy

[steep jetty]

Yep 💀

[mighty sand]

Let’s not go too far into religion debate that gets messy FAST unless the debaters have respect

[whole holly]

analogies they used aren't that equivalent and somewhat of poor analogy, since how unique process of Weaver Ascension is

[foggy fractal]

wonder where the mods are

🤔

[mighty sand]

As long as we can do it without roasting my ahh, sure

[whole holly]

i am seeing pretty questionable interpretations that are trying to demean stated facts... i don't think this discussion is productive.

[mighty sand]

I think it’s fine

[wise ember]

Yeah, fair, I’ll probably get off from it for now. Thanks for talking tho!

[mighty sand]

If we can be mature abt it

[whole holly]

i wish we could...

[mighty sand]

If I’m being completely honest, I didn’t even reach red memory or kill first sinner yet. My info comes from stuff I regrettably spoiled.

Plus the stuff I have seen already

[native stirrup]

You have a lot to learn my chud

[foggy fractal]

insert ishowspeed trying not to laugh gif

[native stirrup]

best of luck on that path

[mighty sand]

I hope so, feels like I spoiled the whole game atp

[native stirrup]

I mean, there’s plenty of hidden details within the game

[mighty sand]

I watched a short abt weaver ascension thinking it only gets explained via lore tablets, only to later learn we actually get a sick reveal of it after sinner

[compact niche]

random thing but like lacenet is such a cute thought, like after all the bullshit gms put her through shes able to move on with hornet and everything and i really like how tc left it ambigious its super sweet

[whole holly]

this is lore channel, spoilers are allowed here, but it is still great to discuss stuff

[native stirrup]

Maybe you’ll find something

[whole holly]

great platonic journey in my opinion

[mighty sand]

Exactly how I feel except for them to be besties and not lovers

[compact niche]

i think both interpretations are valid which is why tc left it ambigious but theyd be super sweet yuri i feel

[mighty sand]

Yeah I love how much more personal it is compared to hk

[stray fog]

But lace is a child

[limpid summit]

Lace’s story ends off alright I don’t really like her in act 3

She’s also a child yes

[mighty sand]

Hornet big sis lace little sis will forever be my head canon

[whole holly]

So true AppleEgg, i share your opinion about Act 3

[compact niche]

whatchu talking about

[mighty sand]

I love her in act 3 lol

[compact niche]

her whole story is about overcoming her mother and overcoming her role of a child that her mom forced her into, is that literally not a story about gaining her own agency?

i feel like her being a child would completely defeat all of that purpose

[limpid summit]

Yes but she’s still a child

It’s about her metaphorical shackles

Hornet who repeatedly is mislabeled a child and corrects people calls Lace a child twice in her final lines of dialogue

It’s fairly clear that lace is a kid

[mighty sand]

Got a point actually

She calls lace child a lot

[compact niche]

why are you taking hornet as a reliable narrator if she quite literally constantly makes jabs at characters if they prompt her to

[mighty sand]

Then again Hornet is called little spider

[limpid summit]

Who is reliable if not Hornet in her final lines of dialogue

[foggy fractal]

theres also like 5 other dialogues calling Lace a child from like different characters

[limpid summit]

And she doesn’t do that

[mighty sand]

Why is Hornet so sassy lmao

[steep jetty]

Shakra calls Hornet Child wielding needle before she calls her Hornet wielding needle

Does that make her a child herself?

[spark valve]

including the omniscient narrator

[limpid summit]

She respects people mostly

[compact niche]

theres only 1 other dialogue and its from caretaker who is also not a reliable narrator

[spark valve]

💀

[limpid summit]

No Shakra is wrong and corrects herself lmao

[stray fog]

Then who is reliable

[gentle aspen]

why is he suddenly an unreliable narrator

[limpid summit]

Hornet doesn’t stick to her inhibitions like that

[spark valve]

caretaker is very reliable you just don't like it lmao

[compact niche]

lace acts immature but thats literally because thats all she knows and is forced to be by her mother lowkey, her actually being one completely defeats the purpose of her story imo

[limpid summit]

When the two most reliable characters in the game disprove my headcanon 💔

[steep jetty]

Hence why I said that, smartass

[compact niche]

because he doesnt know lace like at all? hes just a bystander

[sinful nimbus]

why we entertaining ts lacenet discussion is banned

[stray fog]

Shamans are on the knowledgeable side of the spectrum

[mighty sand]

ig I see where ur coming from but I still see her as younger than hornet

[gentle aspen]

he’s speaking about the creation of a magical creature made entirely of silk

[compact niche]

oh no ur totally right

hornets an unc

[whole holly]

i mean she has mind to match, it is a Obedient Daughter role she overcomes, not being Child

[limpid summit]

Her story is still the same she escaped GMS and lives for herself people just really want to stick to their guns and see it romantically for some reason

[sinful nimbus]

Lace herself says she was made to be a child is she an unreliable narrator

is Hornet too

[limpid summit]

This

[gentle aspen]

And regardless lacenet is banned here

[foggy fractal]

only reliable narrator is TC

[stray fog]

W

[mighty sand]

Rlly?

Dam

[gentle aspen]

yes

[foggy fractal]

and they haven't said shit so

[sinful nimbus]

Who also wrote that she was a child in meta text

[steep jetty]

You think I don’t know that?? I know she corrects herself in the end thank you,

[foggy fractal]

did they come out and say that in front of the camera? I didn't think so...

[limpid summit]

Bro dragging it

[gentle aspen]

can you stop acting like a jerk

[steep jetty]

I’ll drop it, I apologize.

[whole holly]

hornet only looks like child because of her physiology... that's not case for Lace

[mighty sand]

Lmao what kind of argument is that, no offense

[spark valve]

it's called sarcasm

[limpid summit]

He joking

[mighty sand]

With the kind of ppl I see debating, I wouldn’t have been surprised if it was real

[whole holly]

i hope we see resurrected Blue Child Joni in Sea of Sorrows

[gentle aspen]

🤨

[stray fog]

How would joni come to pharloom though

[gentle aspen]

she’s in another kingdom and is currently a corpse

[mighty sand]

Hornet gotta get a train ticket first and go to hallownest

[limpid summit]

I would be actively unhappy

[whole holly]

magic

[gentle aspen]

that wouldn’t make any sense

it would also be another pointless callback

[stray fog]

It seems unlikely tbh

[whole holly]

so was Assistant Zango

[gentle aspen]

zango was not in another kingdom

[limpid summit]

Is joni a child actually

[gentle aspen]

😐

[limpid summit]

No seriously

[gentle aspen]

“Is the person called blue child joni a child”

[limpid summit]

Like is it a religious child thing

Child of God

[gentle aspen]

How would we know that

[whole holly]

Joninet discussion needs to be outlawed before it becomes a thing

[stray fog]

Everyone opposed lifeblood, so they wouldn't use a lifeblood religion based title for joni

[mighty sand]

Seems like a young adult no way a literal child we rebel against the king (indirectly)

[mighty sand]

I now realize the irony of what I just said…

[whole holly]

she could appear in memory, in some way

[gentle aspen]

Why would she appear in anyone’s memory

[whole holly]

it could be self given title though?

[mighty sand]

If we’re actually having a conversation abt this, imo it’d be hella unnecessary

[gentle aspen]

It is a different kingdom and no one there would have spoken to her

[whole holly]

Abyss Creatures memory

[gentle aspen]

You’re again assuming that entity will show up or that joni and it had ties to each other

[foggy fractal]

It is a sarcastic statement meant to poke fun at the argument that comments about Lace being a child isn't reliable because it could be interpreted otherwise, therefore nothing can be trusted unless Team Cherry themselves directly confirm or deny it. Apologies for the confusion.

[whole holly]

i mean i am not super serious about it

[mighty sand]

Understood, apologies for my stupidity

[mighty sand]

Ye that’s why I said “if we’re actually having a conversation abt this”

[whole holly]

never say never, especially about something related to Lifeblood, Void and Pale Beings

[whole holly]

i know i just clarified

[mighty sand]

Alr

I think imma go now

Nice talk chat

Bye

[stray fog]

What if the reason that joni didn't get plasmified is that her body couldn't handle so much lifeblood because she's a child

[foggy fractal]

no idea

[gentle aspen]

what?

Plasmification is the state of not handling lifeblood

[whole holly]

that's completely new effect of lifeblood causing death instead of plasmification

[gentle aspen]

If she couldn’t handle it she’d he plasmified

[whole holly]

exactly, she gives Joni's Blessing which even emulates effects for the knight, even if knight isn't plasmified

[foggy fractal]

Plasmified Joni
cue the battle music!

[frosty gate]

I honestly think the difference between Hallownest's Lifeblood and Pharloom's Plasmium problem is the way it was being handled

Joni was probably just drinking it

Not injecting it onto plants

The way it spread it Hallownests looks natural, while Pharloom was basically an experiment

[spark valve]

there's not a difference between hallownest lifeblood and pharloom lifeblood hornet says the same shit was happening in hallownest

[stray fog]

What about zylotol

[frosty gate]

He was injecting it

Into himself

[frosty gate]

I can't tell if you're implying that she says that was happening before the events of the Hollow Knight or the events of Silksong

[spark valve]

she says it happens when it's allowed to flourish

it's not specific to any use of it

it just happens

[whole holly]

same things were not happening in Hallownest, Joni, Salubra and Elina all consumed Lifeblood without Side effects we see in Silksong, before you say dose makes poison, every character i mentioned consumed it in varying doses

[frosty gate]

I mean sure, but things didn't get Plasmified in Hallownest

[spark valve]

they did

it's a retcon

[frosty gate]

Not when we were there

[gentle aspen]

yeah, because it wasn’t allowed to flourish like it did in Pharloom

[spark valve]

In my home caves, when once this substance was allowed to flourish, I saw similar aberrations. This is wonder tainted strong with revulsion.

[whole holly]

no Lifeblood Aberrations occurred in events of First Game

[frosty gate]

I am a full beliver of Retconsong but this one aint it.
We would have to wait to see what they say during Sea of Sorrows

[gentle aspen]

I mean it explicitly is one, Hornet said the same thing happened in her home caves

[stray fog]

I think allowing it to flourish is the key difference

[gentle aspen]

when this wasn’t the case prior

[frosty gate]

Yeah it was, Joni's cave was flourishing with it and it didn't look like one

[spark valve]

which is the retcon

[foggy fractal]

hey Jojoker may you explain to me what handwaving is not the 👋 kind btw

[whole holly]

what does that even entail? we see Lifeblood Cocoons in HK and SS, what is tangible difference, unless implying that flourishing requires infecting it into local flora and fauna

[frosty gate]

Fuck I hate the word retcon so much because you are not wrong, it is a retcon, but it's used in such a stupid fucking way that it makes it hard to not argue against it

[spark valve]

"when it was allowed to flourish this happened" is inconsistent with it flourishing in the first game and not happening idk what you want me to say

[whole holly]

point is that it can be somewhat contradictory, at least how they are presented in different games

[gentle aspen]

it was retconned as previously stated

[spark valve]

if their intent was that pharloom's infection is because of it being injected or whatever they would not write that journal entry which both implies that it's something lifeblood just does on its own ('allowed' to flourish, not induced) and established that it happened in hallownest before where nobody was doing that

[limpid summit]

In my home caves, when once this substance was allowed to flourish, I saw similar aberrations
Technically if you were anal you could say that the flourishing correlates with the aberrations rather than causing them but like that’s how it reads

[edgy nebula]

topic?

[stray fog]

Lifeblood outbreak retcon

[foggy fractal]

is lifeblood retcon

🤔

[spark valve]

the problem is the aberrations anyways

[edgy nebula]

i mean, prolly

[gentle aspen]

I saw that spelling mistake

[whole holly]

sure, it is, but it is also contradictory somewhat

[stray fog]

Anal? 😭

[spark valve]

I have motor disfunctions

[limpid summit]

It means like needlessly annoying

[gentle aspen]

retcons are inherently contradictory dude

[limpid summit]

In this context

[gentle aspen]

womp womp

[frosty gate]

Man, I wish we could go on a conversation on this game without having to call something a Retcon but Team Cherry made an effort for that to not be the case

[stray fog]

Oh

[foggy fractal]

pull up the logs so we can all point and laugh!!!!

[gentle aspen]

retcons aren’t inherently negative anyways

[limpid summit]

God I still really don’t like Herrah Weaver

[whole holly]

not always, retroactively canonization/Retroactive continuity doesn't always involve contradictory information

[frosty gate]

I know, but they are frustrating

[foggy fractal]

are retcons positive for silksong though

[spark valve]

the lifeblood one might end up being merited but atm it's kind of pointless

[whole holly]

does that mean they can retcon Joni being dead? and in hallownest?

[gentle aspen]

that isn’t what a retcon is

[spark valve]

the herrah one is decent

[frosty gate]

You try to have a conversation about the thing and it just ends up it being "Yeah its just a retcon" and no progress can be done for the topic

[gentle aspen]

it isn’t just “retroactively canonizing something” it is doing so in a way that changes the previous narrative

[stray fog]

Lifeblood outbreak retcons support the lifeblood infection parallels, so I like them

[gentle aspen]

that’s what makes it bad

[whole holly]

it is, though

[spark valve]

lifeblood infection is so boring

[gentle aspen]

it literally isn’t but I don’t care enough to continue to inform you of the definition of words

[gentle aspen]

it’s reductive

[limpid summit]

I think snail shamans at least knowing about the void isn’t an awful retcon I just don’t like how it was handled

[frosty gate]

Retcons should be accompanied by a nice explanation on how this two different statements came to be, and if no explanation is provided, the person should be punished with death

[spark valve]

ancestral mound shaman got on the phone or something

[whole holly]

noun
(in a film, television series, or other fictional work) a piece of new information that imposes a different interpretation on previously described events, typically used to facilitate a dramatic plot shift or account for an inconsistency.
verb
revise (an aspect of a fictional work) retrospectively, typically by introducing a piece of new information that imposes a different interpretation on previously described events.

[limpid summit]

Ancestral mound shaman and Karn were just the annoying black sheep of their species

[edgy nebula]

“You of all people should know of our family’s fixations.. Surely you had a hunch?”

(we did not have a hunch)

[frosty gate]

ISTG THIS ISN'T A RETCON THAT DUDE IS JUST STUPID

[gentle aspen]

I said I don’t care and this disproves what you’re saying if you read what is said

[frosty gate]

The snail Shamans are not retconned

[spark valve]

they really are

[frosty gate]

Ancestral dude is just a fucking moron

I will die on this hill

[spark valve]

"wherever you found this power isn't a place my kind thought to look" is unambiguous

[edgy nebula]

ancestral mound shaman could be stupid, but outside of that we never see ANYTHING with shamans and void

[limpid summit]

Imagine if what Midwife said about the Weavers was just not something they actually did

[whole holly]

it doesn't i am using verb definition, which was definition used in context

[limpid summit]

That would be a retcon

Snail shaman is knowledgeable

[gentle aspen]

I don’t care

[frosty gate]

He doesn't even go out of his house what does he know!?!?!?

[stray fog]

How does he not know about his own species's world famous fixation

[gentle aspen]

I dunno how times I have to say this for you to stop responding to me man

[whole holly]

okay, great

didn't see your last message

[spark valve]

he's a soul wizard from a tribe of soul wizards that share techniques he uh probably knows about his tribe's techniques

[frosty gate]

By not getting invited to the parties because no one likes him

[stray fog]

Did his parents leave him after birth

[frosty gate]

I hate that dude so much

[limpid summit]

TK not calming the void in its entirety is genuinely an awful retcon that turns the themes of HK on its side

[gentle aspen]

like you can’t even go “well maybe this just applies to pharloom ones” because the dialogue implies its a shaman thing

[frosty gate]

In my ideal world he is

[spark valve]

just wait for herrah to be alive in sea of sorrows

[whole holly]

it is possible timeline changed their culture, maybe ancestral mound shaman spread the word of Knight's unique twist spells, and caused Shamans to be fixated on it ever since

[stray fog]

True ending = etv confirmed

[gentle aspen]

I mean it sucks but at this point I don’t care

[foggy fractal]

wait this is fire!

[spark valve]

it's some kinda fire

[frosty gate]

I honestly think that the Snails of Silksong are just better loregivers than Ancestral Mound dude

[limpid summit]

No I mean I don’t actually care

[spark valve]

they're both exposition dumpers silksong snails just dump main plot stuff

[limpid summit]

It doesn’t make zero sense for the void to be disturbed by a soul HB raging within it

[whole holly]

to be honest i would like to have Murglin be alive in Sea of Sorrows and evade capture by plasmification

[foggy fractal]

do you care?

[limpid summit]

The only retcons I care about are Herrah Weaver (dumb) and Steel Masters being weird kingdom peepers like 9 other factions

[foggy fractal]

a caretaker perhaps?

[spark valve]

new game looks inside nothing new

[frosty gate]

Was Ancestral Mound dude an exposition dumper? The fuck did he dump

[limpid summit]

I mean he sort of explains how we get void heart

[frosty gate]

Shitty info and clarifications that he doesn't touch grass

[spark valve]

shit about spells and how the knight gets them

[limpid summit]

Catalyst and our own essence

[gentle aspen]

Herrah weaver is fine

It serves the plot better

[stray fog]

Is the steel stuff a retcon

Also steel city mentioned ‼️ ‼️ ‼️

[limpid summit]

No I guess not technically

I just don’t like what they’ve done to them

[whole holly]

i would have liked for hornet to have unique physiology and be capable of weaver skills despite not being one, being honorary weaver kind of

[limpid summit]

We’ll see how Sharpe plays out

[frosty gate]

Like what?

[foggy fractal]

Actually, The Mist is an area with a mechanic not found in the first game: Hollow Knight, unless when saying "nothing new" you mean that the concept was derived from not just the first game: Hollow Knight but anywhere else in which is anything truly original? Are YOU original? Really makes you think...

[limpid summit]

Ooh compression 👻

[edgy nebula]

in hollow knight 5 the lord fool is gonna be retconned into a worm and hes gonna go “i was a wyrm this entire time it was very obvious”

[tawdry flare]

his theme will have an electric guitar

[stray fog]

Skong makes them cooler than they were in hk

[gentle aspen]

well the mechanic is basically just the lost woods again

[limpid summit]

They went from enigmatic to just another boring void obsessed dead kingdom watching faction

[frosty gate]

Thats... just new info?

[frosty gate]

They already were that

[foggy fractal]

from zelda?

[gentle aspen]

That’s literally like
only one faction in existence

[spark valve]

like I said

welcome to the new game

[limpid summit]

Half of that is two factions half of that is ten

[spark valve]

nothing new and actually everything old that was unique is now just one of two archetypes

you have infections and you have grimm troupes

[limpid summit]

Good fanservice in Silksong:
Mister Mushroom
Elder Hu

[gentle aspen]

“Elder Hu”

blocked

[whole holly]

at least Wisps are technically original, given Wisp is not Scarlet Essence

[foggy fractal]

black = void
orange = infection
blue = lifeblood
red = nightmare

[limpid summit]

I can’t even get fake mad at you anymore regs will start piling on

[gentle aspen]

honestly like

for all my complaints about silksong

I only genuinely have three

[whole holly]

pale = soul too

[foggy fractal]

which are?

[gentle aspen]

act 3
lace child
the haunting being another infection

[spark valve]

uuh shell shards bad rewards act 3

[sinful nimbus]

Menus vs Parkour

[foggy fractal]

white = pale add it to the list!

[tawdry flare]

is soul an infection or a grimm troupe

[gentle aspen]

nah
I mean story wise

[edgy nebula]

is lace child just there because everyone’s annoying about it

[frosty gate]

I am so scared to ask... Lace Child?

[spark valve]

infection now

[sinful nimbus]

GMS uses it as an infection

[gentle aspen]

I can’t hold you
lace being a child is dumb

[stray fog]

I hope so

[frosty gate]

I do agree with the Haunting being Infection part 2

[gentle aspen]

It’s canon

but dumb

[foggy fractal]

Turn that frown upside down! (name three complements of Hollow Knight: Silksong)

[frosty gate]

YES

YES IT IS

[sinful nimbus]

Why

[stray fog]

Fr

[frosty gate]

God I can speak

[sinful nimbus]

No its not vro you fell for the #sk-discussion propaganda

[gentle aspen]

because I don’t think the changes it brings are any good

[spark valve]

I mean it makes gms so much more evil

[gentle aspen]

so I don’t like it

[limpid summit]

I dont think lace being a child is dumb but I dont like how juxtaposed with the Lace obsession Phantom is pushed to the side and completely ignored I don’t find it fulfilling for her story

[foggy fractal]

Can you explain to us what the changes are and why they aren't any good?

[gentle aspen]

It does
but creating life that is entirely reliant on you to exist is already disgustingly evil making it a child feels a bit like kicking the dog yknow

[whole holly]

if anything lifeblood is but Haunting is mechanically different enough, what else was this channel expecting? i guess they underdelivered on being haunted by silk and SONG but still

[edgy nebula]

how the silk sisters feel being the main controversial topics in sk-discussion

[frosty gate]

It doesn't, she's a shit person in anyway you put her. Lace being an adult still scared for her mother's approval is so much more worse

[spark valve]

it is yes

[spark valve]

phantom reeks of rewrites basically nothing about her is cohesive

[limpid summit]

And yet conductors are still more evil

[gentle aspen]

it isn’t as if it actually changes anything aside from bringing filthy discourse

[frosty gate]

A very stupid discourse by the way

[foggy fractal]

phantom reeks becase they are near bilewater trust!

[limpid summit]

Just wait for the organ sleepers to explain everything

[sinful nimbus]

Lace's nature being unchangeable provides a neat parallel for Hornet's evil genes and Lace's arc is just neat

[foggy fractal]

just wait till the bugpipers explain everything.

[gentle aspen]

I mean, phantom being pushed to the side fits better

It’s the point
she’s forgotten and tossed away

[spark valve]

ok but there could be better points

[gentle aspen]

“Hornet’s evil genes” shuuuuuuuut the up

[frosty gate]

But her arc being a canonically child doesn't stop being good if she's a sad adult

[edgy nebula]

i like lace child, it fits with gms’s personality to control and mold the world to her image

[spark valve]

it does

but like

whatever

[gentle aspen]

like don’t get me wrong
It makes sense
I just don’t think its worth anything at the end of the day

[whole holly]

i mean hunger for power is not really that bad for lore, it makes hornet more morally complex

[gentle aspen]

I don’t care any more about lace or find gms any more monstrous

[edgy nebula]

fair

[sinful nimbus]

If I had it my way I would just make it so all bugs have that innate desire which like yeah makes sense considering stuff like the undercranks

[limpid summit]

That such a feat is possible... I have seen life woven from Silk before, but tiny, transient... Never like this...

Though grey with age, their frayed form suggested a being strung from Silk, one who welcomed a decisive end in combat over a slow decline.

No I’m sorry this is indefensible from the game that allows you to get a unique quill if you wait till Tormented Trobbio lmao

[sinful nimbus]

But what can you expect from SS

[spark valve]

the best thing they do with the lace situation is the cradle dialogue

[limpid summit]

TC took the metaphor too far and just made her entirely irrelevant

[foggy fractal]

bugs

[spark valve]

yes this is dumb

[gentle aspen]

that’s fair
but the same problem exists for the slab but like

Worse

[foggy fractal]

uh oh

[limpid summit]

Another box checked

True you’re right

I mean the slab entries are really ass no way around it

[frosty gate]

Lace being a child adds nothing to the narrative that it's not already said by GMS's horrible actions during the events of the game

If she was an adult, her arc would be equally as impactful

[spark valve]

I mean that's bad in a different way the caretaker one seems like they themselves forgot lmao

[gentle aspen]

No I’m not starting slab discourse the issue isn’t hornet being racist the issue is “hornet’s thoughts don’t change despite how she encounters things”

[limpid summit]

We joke but it’s not good writing especially considering “we do not choose our mothers”

[sinful nimbus]

HI SILKSONGFAN.

[gentle aspen]

I don’t even think it’s that, it’s just that they decided “nah you’ll encounter things in a certain way” without seeing literally any other option

[whole holly]

it kinda adds to fact that she is stuck in tormenting cycle

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet being racist is bad too tbf

[foggy fractal]

if only we wrote silksong

[spark valve]

being character assassination is not the highest thing on the list of problems

[frosty gate]

She is still stuck in a tormenting cycle even if she isn't a child

[sinful nimbus]

Even if she was captured that dialogue is pretty indefensible

[frosty gate]

Her life is miserable

[whole holly]

not necessary at all

[frosty gate]

Whether she is a kid or not

[limpid summit]

Bro gimmighoul fan

It’s been so long

[stray fog]

What is a gimmighoul

[limpid summit]

I wouldn’t simply because I could never come up with a character as peak as Skynx

[ancient sinew]

You just don’t get it, do you?

[whole holly]

sure but it adds to it, she is stuck and stunted like how bad parents can do that to children

[foggy fractal]

https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Gimmighoul_(Pokémon)

[spark valve]

downsides of having two people writing stuff is only two people see it and have a chance to go "hey wait a minute maybe we shouldn't have our protagonist do eugenics talking points"

[limpid summit]

Bro about to chud out 💔

[tawdry flare]

The Silksong Refresh update will fix those entries dw

[spark valve]

not that I think it was deliberate they just probably didn't notice what it was

[sinful nimbus]

So what you're saying is that Team Cherry should've hired more people

[foggy fractal]

Jack Vine could've saved us...

[ancient sinew]

I don’t think it was intentional either but be fr

[tawdry flare]

Maybe if Team Cherry had 33 team members…

[limpid summit]

I saw a David Kazi tweet recently so it’s not like they live under rocks

[whole holly]

they need sensitivity training

[foggy fractal]

... say that again

[ancient sinew]

That shit was not proofread

[stray fog]

And they made an obscure expedition with claire

[sinful nimbus]

Jack Vine is consistently based on bluesky fr

[whole holly]

and empathy doesn't require knowledge and ethical training

[limpid summit]

Imagine what kind of messed up dialogue existed in SS’s early stages if that got past them

[tawdry flare]

Jack Vine has social media?

[frosty gate]

It adds more depth and hurt if you make her an adult who couldn't mentally grow up because of her bad parent!!!!
Lace being an adult would be impactful to anyone who is stuck in their twenties feeling as if they never had the space to grow as a child.

[ancient sinew]

I… I’ll spread the word…

[whole holly]

Pale Beings correlating with High Caste... oh wait that's in the game

[frosty gate]

And I'm gonna say this, I think Lace was actually an adult and TC just botched the writing

[limpid summit]

I don’t think there’s a way to know

[spark valve]

lace being an adult would undercut the cradle interaction

[limpid summit]

But I doubt it

[stray fog]

This has gotta be unintentional
My goats cannot be like this 🙏

[whole holly]

she can't mentally grow up but who knows after events of SS

[frosty gate]

There is, I'm going to fly to australia and force it out of William

[ancient sinew]

Putting the child in mind and body line into the game sure is one way to “botch the writing” lmfao

[limpid summit]

What if the final Lace cutscene actually demonstrates that GMS has put her mind in Lace’s body

[frosty gate]

What specifically?

[sinful nimbus]

ts why jack should've been in charge of the writing

[limpid summit]

That’s why she laughed

[ancient sinew]

Yeah guys she’s an adult she’s just a child in mind and body 😐

[limpid summit]

She won

[ancient sinew]

This is surely the intended reading

[tawdry flare]

Wait TRUE

[ancient sinew]

Not that it matters because SS fans can’t read to begin with

[frosty gate]

Give Jack Vine the writing role!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[spark valve]

the point of that is about how lace's self hatred due to her nature is unjustified removing her unusual nature undercuts that, it's like if shrek ended with shrek turning into a hot human guy

[limpid summit]

Peak

[gentle aspen]

I mean she explicitly calls herself a child and goes “this is no life to live” as a result of this

[ancient sinew]

Shrek 2 alternate ending

[whole holly]

i would have loved that, we wouldn't have parasite... moss druid would be our non-binary monarch druid

[gentle aspen]

she clearly isn’t referring to just being comprised of silk

[stray fog]

Whats wrong with the parasite quest?
(genuinely asking)

[spark valve]

like the character flaw lace has is the evaluative judgement she makes about her life's value not an inaccurate understanding of what she is

[limpid summit]

The Greyroot quest is fine

[foggy fractal]

insert blue lock puzzle pieces fitting gif to express me thinking how much better Silksong's writing could've been

[edgy nebula]

i think we shouldve been able to choose if garmond or shakra becomes lost in act 3

[limpid summit]

Its interesting how Hornet treats her with so much respect

[ancient sinew]

I don’t know how TC could have made it more obvious that Lace is meant to be an eternal child but the fans still say shit like “I think TC actually meant for her to be an adult and accidentally added dialogue where they explicitly confirmed she was a child”

[sinful nimbus]

||Could you break the Black Egg seals by forging a weapon out of the souls of both Pale Beings||

[limpid summit]

I think she reminded her of WL

[whole holly]

people are comparing to unwanted pregnancy and certain topics i can't mention here, it was bad in hindsight, design and execution is issue

[sinful nimbus]

Would've been so tuff

[stray fog]

Oh

[gentle aspen]

I mean, no? That’s like the point

[sinful nimbus]

Silksong establishes that you can like overcharge seals with concentrated soul

probably

[foggy fractal]

jojoker psa?

[gentle aspen]

it’s like saying face huggers being able to be analogous to pregnancy is bad

[edgy nebula]

i mean, i think thats a pretty fair comparison

[ancient sinew]

That wouldn’t work on PK seals

[limpid summit]

This is why it was good to forget about Silksong for a year in TC’s silence if you just kept it at the forefront of your mind you’re unable to shake the stuff you made up about the characters

[spark valve]

people have said that

[limpid summit]

Then you just become a weirdo

[sinful nimbus]

PK is probably stronger than his seals

Unless?

[ancient sinew]

Sometimes you just have to let go man

[edgy nebula]

silksong has pretty deep rooted themes of motherhood, a parasite quest in that is pretty on the nose, i think people shouldnt compare it too closely though

[frosty gate]

Yeah I know, I just hate the writing on it

[gentle aspen]

well sure. They’re wrong. The creators explicitly made those parallels and it deepens the narrative

[whole holly]

some of topics are definitely inappropriate and if they are point of it, then it is really misogyny in disguise

[spark valve]

yup

[gentle aspen]

????????

literally what

[limpid summit]

I dont think Greyroot is meant to represent a predator

[gentle aspen]

how is abortion misogynistic

what?

[ancient sinew]

It’s an alien reference

[limpid summit]

Yeah

[ancient sinew]

And what is Alien

[limpid summit]

Vs Predator

[sinful nimbus]

Lacenet fans when they're forced to experience a fraction of the pain I felt as a pre-release Caretaker x Churchkeeper shipper

[ancient sinew]

🤦‍♂️

[edgy nebula]

i wouldnt be surprised if the right of rebirth is a metaphor for assault/abortion, but it explicitly isnt abortion or assault in the game, it’s a metaphor

[spark valve]

the ending being called "twisted child" is definitely a choice

[foggy fractal]

insert that one zoro gif

[whole holly]

i am not referring to abortion, i am referring to it's similarity to certain genre of adult content, as some people pointed it out... but can't discuss that too in depth in here

[limpid summit]

No one gave af about either of those two characters 💔💔

[gentle aspen]

???????

[limpid summit]

Churchkeeper and random guy

[frosty gate]

Her self hatred about her nature can prevail if she's not a child, she just hates that her nature makes her dependant on her mother.
Lace hating on being dependant on the abusive person keeping a hold of her would also be great

[silk dirge]

they were so clearly both snail shaman and the same family lmao

[gentle aspen]

plenty of people cared about churchkeeper what are you waffling ahout

[ancient sinew]

Apple you do realize the “predators” in universe don’t kill civilians right

[sinful nimbus]

Churchkeeper ended up being a nothingburger Caretaker ended up being the best character in the game

[gentle aspen]

that’s literally only true post release

[limpid summit]

I guess we were the real predators

[gentle aspen]

Pre release this wasn’t a thing

[frosty gate]

She doesn't have to be a child to be dependant on GMS

[stray fog]

I genuinely didn't notice that they were shamans

[edgy nebula]

bell hermit is better

[silk dirge]

i mean many people guessed they were snail shamans

[stray fog]

How did yall figure this out

[sinful nimbus]

TRUE

[gentle aspen]

ok?

[ancient sinew]

They’re specifically shown to spare a pregnant lady and don’t generally attack women or children

[gentle aspen]

so?

[silk dirge]

suspiciously round shape

[limpid summit]

I didn’t notice until the final line of dialogue

[foggy fractal]

how about bell hermit though?

[limpid summit]

From Caretaker

[frosty gate]

Star, you can't just go saying the truth out loud like that

[spark valve]

I don't think just being functionally mortal is on its own very compelling as an inherent limitation that makes her see her own life as worth less

[graceful grail]

I saw the staff…

[limpid summit]

But I saw Skynx and said Nosk

[edgy nebula]

i dont think bell hermit was in the trailers but he is better

caretaker is cool but damn his design sucks ass

[ancient sinew]

You’re a dumbass

[sinful nimbus]

I like his design

[silk dirge]

i saw someone call bell hermit a conservative uncle

[ancient sinew]

Caretaker was cool until he took his clothes off

[graceful grail]

Ooiii, oiii, OOIIII

[silk dirge]

which is so true

[edgy nebula]

his proportions make him look like a fetus

[ancient sinew]

The SS Shamans have NO drip

[sinful nimbus]

His snail form looks wonky

[edgy nebula]

he needs height surgery

also what does caretaker even leave behind on the ground

why does he have slime

[silk dirge]

he slimed hornet

[ancient sinew]

actually she slimed him

[silk dirge]

true

[foggy fractal]

Yes, I was speaking with only what I replied to in mind, my question was that if Churchkeeper is a nothingburger and that Caretaker is the best then what is Bell Hermit? Something inbetween?

[edgy nebula]

bell hermit leaves behind bells, churchkeeper leaves behind her necklace, caretaker leaves behind white slime which we never see him produce ever?

[foggy fractal]

wait this is tuff!

[whole holly]

lol

[ancient sinew]

TUFF

[gentle aspen]

I mean
it’s just soul

[whole holly]

Sherma is peak design

[sinful nimbus]

what white slime

[ancient sinew]

Snail slime

[limpid summit]

Yeah Sherma is actually amazing

[ancient sinew]

Sylphean slug

[whole holly]

where?

[limpid summit]

Good voice fun design great story

[ancient sinew]

lol ok

[edgy nebula]

in the entrance to the chapel

[ancient sinew]

lol ok

[limpid summit]

Dude who competes with Sherma

[frosty gate]

Because her inmortality depends on her mother giving her silk. She could be an adult woman that's kept inmortal by her mother's silk, which keeps he trapped in a loop of "If I leave I die, but If i don't i feel dead" branding herself as a coward for not doing what she really wants and still being obsesed with her mother's approval

[whole holly]

i hope Sylphean Slug and Snail Shaman hybrid will be protag on third game

[gentle aspen]

sherma’s fine until they become caretaker and do nothing with it

[limpid summit]

Kratt
Yarnaby
Grindle
If your favorite Silksong npc isn’t on my list we not friends

[tawdry flare]

that’s act III it doesn’t count

[whole holly]

what are they supposed to do, they only know songs?

[ancient sinew]

Wait how did you guess

[sinful nimbus]

That's candlewax

[gentle aspen]

TRUE

[edgy nebula]

oh, damn

[limpid summit]

Remember maggot wax

[whole holly]

add Nuu

[foggy fractal]

I mean that's just candle wax no? you can see more where the snail shamans are standing too

[whole holly]

isn't that candlewax?

[gentle aspen]

put wishes on the wishboard

[limpid summit]

The maggots mourning their maggot brothers with maggot candles

[gentle aspen]

fortify stuff

[edgy nebula]

i guess caretaker doesnt leave behind anything then

[gentle aspen]

Learn how to heal

[ancient sinew]

Guys that MIGHT be candlewax

[whole holly]

like?

[sinful nimbus]

He left behind his outfit to Sherma ig

Do you think the candlewax is made out of soul to help the flickering flame spell

[limpid summit]

Star why does he actually look like a twerp

Aura vacuum

[edgy nebula]

he had nothing on him to leave at the doorway to hype himself up 💔

[ancient sinew]

Solid soul????

[sinful nimbus]

my goat washed 💔

[limpid summit]

Solid soul yes

[edgy nebula]

atleast give him his necklace he looks TERRIBLE

[limpid summit]

Just like Silk

[whole holly]

they got healing supplies what else are they supposed to do, it was Snail Shamans responsibility to teach Sherma Song Spells if anything

[ancient sinew]

This… this might be our silk song… whoa…

[gentle aspen]

I said absolutely nothing about spells

[sinful nimbus]

Dude the snail shaman reveal could work but they did his design dirty and wrote the snail shaman dialogue like a marvel movie 🥀

[tawdry flare]

just the snail shaman dialogue?

[ancient sinew]

ShamanGPT generate me a method to consume one of the pale kin with such insatiable efficiency

[limpid summit]

I do like bell hermits design and chapel maids little ears

[sinful nimbus]

All of Act 3 actually

[whole holly]

i know i did, it is only feasible way for sherma to do anything significant

[foggy fractal]

which is better act1 or act2

[limpid summit]

Act 2

[ancient sinew]

act 3

[edgy nebula]

i like act 3 cause the hearts are cool

[limpid summit]

It immediately starts with Hornet saying something loud and wrong setting the stage for everything to come

[sinful nimbus]

I don't know why you'd pick one over the other tbh

[edgy nebula]

other than that it isnt very good

[gentle aspen]

learning how to heal also entails bedside manner, more knowledge that isn’t just wrapping up wounds and yknow
continuing to work to heal as a leader of songclave

[whole holly]

true, we need Act 4 kinda

[gentle aspen]

lost verdania.

[foggy fractal]

he should've went to whiteward again for more supplies

[edgy nebula]

top 3 best moments in the game for me were

1. downloading silksong
2. Abyss escape
3. Creige basement gauntlet

[sinful nimbus]

Act 1 and 2's story is fairly solid except for the fact that the story is presented in a bizarre way (Weavenest Atla ) and the fact that the haunting is laaaame

[spark valve]

finishing and promptly uninstalling:

[ancient sinew]

Lace: Tch... Hahahaa. Marvelous! So the spider knows something of fathomless beings, and still it hopes to stand against one, a god...
Where do you hide this boundless strength you claim, spider? I've watched your struggle towards us. Yours was a painful, broken trek. One needs grace to stand before the divine.
Hornet: Then best you listen well, child. Your liege’s power is but a pale shadow beside the truly fathomless.
Hornet: The White Wyrm from whom I draw this boundless strength was no pretender scraping dominion from a shallow pond. He was a true god. One who, true to his title, ruled over a land of gods and bent them to his will.
Hornet: Measure your master against that, and tell me again who deserves the title of divine.

[limpid summit]

Shut the fuck up lmao

[tawdry flare]

my top 3 were

1. Mid-Crawfather fight
2. Entering Crawfather fight
3. Ending Crawfather fight

[whole holly]

they are doing most in first shrine, and they travelled long journey and got traumatized, give Sherma a break

[sinful nimbus]

Greymoor entrance and Citadel entrance were the tuffest parts tbh

[gentle aspen]

no

[foggy fractal]

jojoker... bizzare...? hm...

[ancient sinew]

I fixed it what do you think

[limpid summit]

I actually would have liked this more

[ancient sinew]

That’s right setting the stage

[gentle aspen]

you love glazing pk don’t you

[limpid summit]

Do you think an uninfected Nosk would have no visible stomach or would it’s infected underbelly be a different Colo

[gentle aspen]

there was another guy who did as well

[foggy fractal]

there is no limit to the glaze

[limpid summit]

Like is it normal for it to just have a liquid sac like that

[tawdry flare]

aw man did kirb get banned again….

[gentle aspen]

no he’s just on an alt rn for some reason

[limpid summit]

Unfortunately not

[whole holly]

ReturnoftheKing?

[stray fog]

There's someone named "#PKDidNothingWrong"

[spark valve]

plenty of infected with those sacs probably had venom sacs prior but nosk is a shapeshifter anyways

[whole holly]

lol

[ancient sinew]

I mean that is true

[spark valve]

it does spit venom though

[foggy fractal]

i thought alts aren't allowed? 🤔 is he being blessed by pk?

[ancient sinew]

PK did do nothing wrong in fact that’s kind of the whole point

[edgy nebula]

skynx is weird, why does it spit out rosaries

[sinful nimbus]

PK's hubris was wrong

[gentle aspen]

I just eat it

[whole holly]

true

[sinful nimbus]

I'm also not fond of how he handled maggot discrimination

[edgy nebula]

are you skynx

[ancient sinew]

That’s not something he “did wrong”

[limpid summit]

Yeah but it like seizes and shakes I always thought that seemed unintentional

Like its stomach was erupting

[sinful nimbus]

He literally wrote incorrect information on his tablets vro

[ancient sinew]

His hubris was a flaw but it didn’t prevent him from doing everything right

[spark valve]

I mean it also crawls along the ceiling targeting you with it

[limpid summit]

Dude wait I forgot Nosk just ran and jumped before Hidden Dreams

[whole holly]

i also have to agree, they should have made every caste equal and united it as equal class through beacon and laws

[foggy fractal]

gasp! unreliable narrator?!

[tawdry flare]

back in my day we called them “Liars”

[ancient sinew]

The reason it was HUBRIS is because the task he set out to achieve was IMPOSSIBLE not because he was incompetent did you play the game

[whole holly]

Pale Propaganda

[sinful nimbus]

I didn't say he was incompetent but saying he didn't do anything wrong is incorrect

[spark valve]

I mean yeah but it's still a character flaw vro

[stray fog]

Bro can't go 3 messages without insulting someone

[sinful nimbus]

Maybe chillax a bit

[ancient sinew]

it’s a character flaw it’s not something he “did wrong”

[surreal heron]

He threw out his children and built a palace with buzzsaws
That seems like something wrong

[sinful nimbus]

Is writing incorrect information not something he did wrong

[ancient sinew]

He didn’t do anything wrong unless you’re claiming the right thing to do was lay down and die

[foggy fractal]

it was part of the plan trust

[sinful nimbus]

??? what do the buzzsaws have to do with anything 😭

[ancient sinew]

no because he never did that

[limpid summit]

Bro really thought a corpse with a baby’s mind would have no exploitable thoughts instead of latching firmly onto the first thing it was exposed to 💔

[sinful nimbus]

Hallownest lasts eternal 😭 🙏

[stray fog]

He could've done that to stop people from going outside and becoming mindless

[spark valve]

not intentionally but he did do it

[surreal heron]

Idk like reckless endangerment

[stray fog]

But thats just a theory

A game theorh

[whole holly]

he called Hallownest Kingdom Eternal i am pretty sure

[foggy fractal]

tuff!

[sinful nimbus]

Also he distorted nature

A song that never ends... is no song at all

[foggy fractal]

silksong?

[sinful nimbus]

You broke into his house

[limpid summit]

Okay wait

[ancient sinew]

Yeah… that’s not something he “did wrong” can we be fr

[limpid summit]

I like talking about this so I want to touch up

[ancient sinew]

Are we seriously slandering him for ts

[limpid summit]

I think I’m confused

[whole holly]

Vessels have right to enter anyways

[surreal heron]

Yeah but the royal retainers could have been endangered

[spark valve]

pk slander is all dumb what do you expect

[sinful nimbus]

Why do you take attacks on PK as personal attacks on your character Silksongfan.

[limpid summit]

Why is Rad simultaneously treated as unavoidable “nature” and a force similar to PK that is superseded by Void

Is Void not nature

[ancient sinew]

No

Void is not nature did you play the game

Void DENIES nature

[whole holly]

she is compared to Sun

[foggy fractal]

silksongfan is pale king reincarnation

[tawdry flare]

idk it seems pretty chill

[ancient sinew]

time and nature both refer to the same thing in this context

[limpid summit]

Okay yeah

[surreal heron]

#PaleKingShouldBeInJail

[ancient sinew]

it is that doesn’t mean it doesn’t defy nature

[spark valve]

"Hey ari what should we make our transcendental force in a game where the theme is that nothing lasts forever"
"Nothing lasts forever you say?"

[edgy nebula]

pk reincarnated into a form of meagerer shell, wiggled out of his eye hole, and is sitting with us today in sk-discussion

[whole holly]

ehh? not really one is abstract concept other is a being

[limpid summit]

But then does Vespa refer to Rad pretty much when she says nature

All things must accept an end is pretty Voidy

[spark valve]

yes?

she's talking about the kingdom's fall my guy

[ancient sinew]

Nothing…. lasts forever….

[limpid summit]

Okay I think I confused myself

I had it before

It’s fine

[whole holly]

Void is end of Higher Being's life/rule, not really end of kingdoms

[ancient sinew]

???

Void is just Void lmao it’s not the end of anything

HBs aren’t exclusively or universally killed off by Void

[limpid summit]

Mister Mushroom > Void anyway

[ancient sinew]

Holy meaningless comparison

[limpid summit]

I don’t know what you mean

[whole holly]

i didn't mean it exclusively or universally... nor did i state it

[ancient sinew]

So that means fuck all

“Void is the end of HBs’ life/rule” ok buddy

[whole holly]

it is in Radiance's and Grand Mother Silk's case, why are you outraged?

[sinful nimbus]

I mean they're kinda similar in the sense that void exists below all higher beings and mister mushroom exists horizontally to all beings

[limpid summit]

Lower Being

[ancient sinew]

Yeah let me compare the primordial darkness that transcends the laws of the universe to the immortal observer who feeds on entropy and transcends the laws of the universe

[foggy fractal]

then who exists diagonally

[limpid summit]

Transcends?

[whole holly]

Snail Shamans state Pale Beings can be consumed by it : "
Bell Hermit: How else could we hope to trap one of your pale kin? Or see her consumed with such insatiable efficiency?"

[stray fog]

Me

[limpid summit]

As in “exists above?”

Wow Gimmighoul Fan

[ancient sinew]

ok sure man

[tawdry flare]

We just saying stuff atp

[limpid summit]

I didn’t know you were a believer

[ancient sinew]

ok man whatever

[sinful nimbus]

feeds on entropy 😭 🙏

[ancient sinew]

yeah he does

[limpid summit]

Why doesn’t he just eat fayforn

[ancient sinew]

that’s his whole thing

[tawdry flare]

Only my goat feeds on entropy

[sinful nimbus]

Just say he's a grimm troupe vro

[stray fog]

He doesn't feed on it

He only watches it

[ancient sinew]

yeah he does

[foggy fractal]

where?

[sinful nimbus]

here

[ancient sinew]

He doesn’t feed on the literal remains of dead kingdoms but rather entropy itself

[sinful nimbus]

proof

[tawdry flare]

this almost made me audibly laugh in a dead silent computer science class thanks

[ancient sinew]

Grimm is just a vulture

[stray fog]

He doesn't need entropy to survive

[spark valve]

holy yap

[ancient sinew]

Tammo surely you agree MM feeds on entropy

[sinful nimbus]

corny

[edgy nebula]

i think moss mother feeds on moss probably

[whole holly]

do you have evidence

[limpid summit]

Every faction is either a Grimm Troupe or a Snail Shamans

[whole holly]

i think Moss Druid does that too

[ancient sinew]

Snitchbugs

[limpid summit]

Grimm Troupe

Grindle has dialogue about moving to another dead kingdom

[stray fog]

What does this image represent

Im confused

[ancient sinew]

Steel Masters

[stray fog]

Steel city mentioned ‼️ ‼️ ‼️

[limpid summit]

Despite their enigmatic powers, more Grimm Troupe than Shaman

[edgy nebula]

trobbio? grimm, hornet? grimm, burning bugs? grimm

[ancient sinew]

Chroniclers!

[spark valve]

burning bugs, despite looking like a grimm, are in fact an infection

[whole holly]

should have said Ancient Civilization instead, Trilobites looks like shamans

[limpid summit]

It’s often edited to show that every {thing} is one of two things

[ancient sinew]

Relic Seekers? Ancient Civilizations?

[limpid summit]

Okay maybe they’re all just Grimm troupes

[ancient sinew]

Yes they’re all just GTs

[spark valve]

relic seekers are textbook grimms

[ancient sinew]

They all are

[limpid summit]

Wandering Seeds

[stray fog]

Oh

[whole holly]

what is Moss Druid?

[spark valve]

infection

[whole holly]

infection

[ancient sinew]

Apple made a category error

[surreal heron]

Shaman

[limpid summit]

Yeah it’s Infection or Grimm Troupe

[ancient sinew]

The two categories aren’t GTs and Shamans it’s GTs and infections

[stray fog]

What is magnetite

[edgy nebula]

tc should never make a character with fire attacks ever again because everyone will think theyre grimm

[limpid summit]

Despite having the following of an infection, Mister Mushroom is in fact a Grimm Troupe

[whole holly]

infection

[spark valve]

infection

[gentle aspen]

a magnetic ore

oh

you mean this

nvm

[ancient sinew]

Those are actually an infection

[whole holly]

what is Voltridian?

[edgy nebula]

grimm troupe

[stray fog]

What is maggot racism

[whole holly]

what is Void?

[surreal heron]

Grimm

[stray fog]

Infection

[whole holly]

Grimm Troupe

[sinful nimbus]

this is NOT an infection

[edgy nebula]

infection

[sinful nimbus]

Mr Mushroom is an infection though

[whole holly]

what is Moss?

[stray fog]

What is the pause button

[surreal heron]

Ok but what is
The Grimm Troupe?

[stray fog]

Infection

[whole holly]

GT

[ancient sinew]

No he’s like textbook GT

[surreal heron]

Oh that’s definitely infection

[sinful nimbus]

Fungified Husks

He makes fungal wastes ofc

He's both in a sense

[whole holly]

what is Conjoined Heart?

[stray fog]

Grimm

Because heart

[whole holly]

what is Pickled Muckmaggot?

[stray fog]

What is the aerodynamics of a cow

[whole holly]

chat is dead and we killed it

[hybrid spoke]

none

[mighty sand]

When you join mid chat and look at the first message that pops up

[mighty sand]

When you join mid chat and look at the first message that pops up

Genuinely what’s going on

[whole holly]

idk, how did convo turn into this?

[wet walrus]

He is a pale being and pale beings can produce soul. Silk is another form of soul.
Herrah is an arachnid-like beast. She had no silk powers and was a mere common beast. So maybe even if she isn't a weaver her genes still could have affected her dominant pale gene making her produce silk instead of soul.

[crystal marsh]

Herrah was a Weaver so yes she did have silk powers

[whole holly]

i mean she was retconned but it could have worked without that retcon as well

[twin dragon]

hollow knight is infection

[twin dragon]

It was never clarified where she was a weaver or not

But she sure as hell never looked like one

and it's still not explained

[whole holly]

if Hornet was also thrown in Abyss she likely wouldn't get kidnapped by Citadel, am i right guys?

[prime mantle]

its probably not true due to what hornet says about pharlids and the age drapemites come into play but i kinda just do like the drapemite herrah theory

it shows that weavers don't have to all be from the same bug and they don't all look like carbon copies of each other

which i find to be infinitely more interesting

maybe hornet feels an affinity to pharlids because she lived amongst weavers who were mostly from them and drapemites just adapted to citadel really well instead of forming there... an idea....

[willow bison]

Guys

TK is not considered an insect, nor a beast, nor a god, he is a different form of life, the void took away the identity of some insect from the vessels, right?

in parallel, Lace and Phantom are also not considered insects, beasts or gods, they are different life forms, hornet must affirm this as she has already witnessed the brothers with the same characteristics

Following this logic, not all beings that we see and do not see can still be considered insects, beasts or gods. I think the Uomas or the yellow Sentinels are examples of different life forms

[prime mantle]

vessels are insects kinda they have the nature of wyrm and shells and stuff, but yeah

there are mushrooms, roots, seeds, etc

i guess if you used the word bug to mean people they'd be included but they're not actual bugs

[prime mantle]

just thinking abt this... it's so awesome... let weavers be fat

like what would a weaver raised from a pondskipper look like... or from a flea

[willow bison]

but, the vessels are superior beings, or unfathomable beings according to Lace. so maybe they are that and not bugs/beasts/gods?

[prime mantle]

well something can be a bug and a hb. like radi, grimm, unn, pk, all of these are bugs

are you using a definition for bug idk about

[willow bison]

Wait a moment

In my view, insects are, well, insects, the basis of all this enhanced life, both the sapient and the dumb. Beasts are fierce insects with destructive power, mantis would not be beasts, for example. and gods are beings with even greater destructive powers, capable of killing colonies with greater power

[crystal marsh]

not all beings default to being insects

Vessels aren't insects and neither were the unborn children of PK/WL, because neither of them were insects either

[willow bison]

yes, I agree

But now, I can't say if the vessels are not insects because they have the void that takes away their identity, or if they are superior beings because they are children of superior beings, and perhaps these beings are elevated to the point where they cannot be considered insects

[prime mantle]

pk is an insect though, his current form is the form of a bug

some gods are just also insects

unn is pretty obviously a slug, radiance is a moth, etc

[languid arrow]

QUESTION

are Shaman void?

[spark valve]

They are not

It’s just a potent magical force and they’re wizards

[languid arrow]

Started questioning due shaman's crest binding having to be grounded similar to soul focus
and then there is the desolant dive.

[kindred ingot]

no

they're just black

[languid arrow]

ok then

[wise parcel]

Zote

[edgy nebula]

Crust King Khann

[wise parcel]

Skarrsinger Karmelita

[edgy nebula]

Green Prince

why cant translations be used to confirm genders and stuff again? just cause theyre usually inaccurate?

[gentle aspen]

both of which are soul abilities and not tied to void whatsoever

[gentle aspen]

well, yeah?

translations tend to be inaccurate and also gender everything

[edgy nebula]

fair

[young marten]

Can anyone explain the grayroot WL connection please?
I get there both described as roots but other than that i dont see any similarities.

[gentle aspen]

that’s really it

They’re both also associated with motherhood ig

[spark valve]

they could sometimes if it's very consistent about a character who doesn't have circumstances which would call it into question

tc themselves have commented on that

[sick hemlock]

hey guys i cooked up a really bad theory ask me about it :3