sk-lore

[whole holly]

i meant that in a way Dung Defender's Crest is unique because sheer amount of Dung... only Bilewater could potentially produce something like this, Slabflies aren't fair comparison

[restive wind]

the voided corpse doesn't have streaks until it's, well, voided

actually didn't it get mentioned in some AMA it's related to old age? or am I misremembeing some theory from Mossbag

[frosty gate]

I've never heard about that

[edgy nebula]

what do we think gave khann his scar

[frosty gate]

GMS

No proof, just hype moments and aura

[edgy nebula]

fair enough

[edgy nebula]

depends on the bug

[sinful nimbus]

they lay eggs

most of them

"Bizarrely, this monster does not lay eggs but instead carries its young inside of its fat stomach"

Gruz Mother yea

[edgy nebula]

technically we explore a little bit of hallownest in act 3, with red memory

id bet a solid 30 bucks

[silent moth]

[grizzled summit]

Why is the beast crest down slash looking like Skarrsinger Karmelita's attack

[craggy smelt]

the beast chapel is in ant territory, there's probably a connection there

[plain gazelle]

the skarrs have a connection to their ecosystem

presumably they're the ones that built/worship in the chapel of the beast in the first place

[grizzled summit]

Oh ok but how does it relate to the attack of Karmelita

Just wondering

Cuz I just got beast crest

[frosty gate]

Do yall think the Beast Hornet binds too is a Beast like the Beastfly or more a title like "Herrah the Beast"

[edgy nebula]

beastfly

[whole holly]

Why does Grand Mother Silk have black face if she is described as pale being with pale light, it’s not like it can be because of silk hair shading her, silk hair also has pale light

Why is Weaver Queen Hornet black? Isn’t her shell pale as well

[muted lantern]

The black parts are also made of silk, she just for some reason has different colors of silk to differentiate her. Presumably to make the silk look like shes wearing clothes over a black shell

same with lace

[whole holly]

It sucks that only reason is to contrast them

[muted lantern]

well we just don't know

but it would be a boring design if she was all white

For lace design wise it was to make her look like those white fencing uniforms i think

While laces poofy pants i imagine are more based on something like this:

I imagine lace was designed first and gms was made to resemble her

[graceful grail]

There is “dead looking” life blood in the worm ways before act three. Is it possible that there was lifeblood here before they seeded it now??

[gentle aspen]

no

[tacit crown]

is there a chance that the 'snow' in mount fay is actually Fayform's (the bird) Sheddings?

[edgy nebula]

i wonder, wouldnt this be confirmation that void had a cause in strengthening the lifeblood

[tawdry flare]

the spread of lifeblood in act 3 is because of the void taking over but Big Lore doesn't want you to know that

[graceful grail]

It was just seeded when hornet arrived in pharloom, it has only been there a very short time

[muted lantern]

There was already lifeblood seeded by zango before act 3, we can see some growths of it already around.

[gentle aspen]

No

It’s time

[spark valve]

aaaadventure time

[stray fog]

Zemer gave her a flower

Ig

[last idol]

||What If in the Sisters of the Void ending, the Lord of Shades is what was probably actually seen in real time while Hornet only saw them as Ghost and we all saw Hornet's POV on that?||

[ornate root]

love you eli🥵

[hollow tapir]

bro..

we are cook

[last idol]

"Why is everyone so mean to me" ahh boss

[ornate root]

I can fix her

[last idol]

She'll Cook you right up

[edgy nebula]

how do we think the weavers were able to build the citadel if karak ruled where they planned to build?

[limpid summit]

Thats why I think Karak dried up during Weaver times

Maybe the rule didn’t extend into the Cradle and they just drained Karak to build the rest downwards

[edgy nebula]

it could be possible khann just didnt wanna mess with gms but he seems pretty full of himself

[graceful grail]

Could the weavenest in Mount Fay be what is redirecting all the water from the mountain?? Is that what dried the whole west side of the map??

[stray grove]

Well it didn’t

Otherwise the Karak Memorium exhibits don’t make any sense

[limpid summit]

No?

[stray grove]

No?

Great counterpoint buddy

[limpid summit]

I just don’t understand really

There’s a Mosshome environment as well

[stray grove]

Also you do realize the fall of Khann’s civilization and Karak drying up don’t necessarily have to have happened at the same time

[stray grove]

…

[limpid summit]

I’m aware

Why are you so focused on gotcha moments instead of trying to have genuine discussion

[edgy nebula]

could the crustcrag ndd "Water's source... Hidden... Lost..." imply crustcrawlers were around after the water dried up

[limpid summit]

That’s not what this channel is about

[stray grove]

There couldn’t have been a Karak exhibit if Karak dried up prior to the Conductor era…

What does Mosshome have to do with this…

https://tenor.com/view/he-made-a-statement-statement-dog-clowned-trash-opinion-your-opinion-gif-15033044919438935088

[edgy nebula]

moderators! kill this guy cause no gifs in sk-lore

[limpid summit]

It’s a dried Karak exhibit what

It’s not preserving any elements of ok Karak besides the crustcrags

[stray grove]

Bro didn’t play the game lmao

[edgy nebula]

i dont remember if there was water in the exhibit

[stray grove]

“besides the crustcrags”

Ok this is ragebait

[limpid summit]

There is water in the exhibits

Because the citadel has water

[stray grove]

You can’t just ignore the shit that disproves your claim

[edgy nebula]

what about this

[limpid summit]

Yeah they took the crustcrags after

[stray grove]

No

That’s not what that means

You’re so desperate to cling onto the first thing anyone says that validates your claim that you don’t even stop for five seconds to think about the implications

Laughable AppleEgg

[limpid summit]

They were going to die out and the Citadel bred them in hopes that they may sustain?

Species death doesn’t happen immediately

[stray grove]

Ok so Karak hadn’t fully dried out by the time the Citadel picked them up then 🥴

[limpid summit]

The crustcrags weren’t like the Yumas

[stray grove]

It does if the environment is uninhabitable

[limpid summit]

It’s not

[edgy nebula]

do you think the karakas said yumama as a yo mama joke

[limpid summit]

What’s so hard about this

[stray grove]

It is uninhabitable for them lol

The Citadel picked up the crustcrags before it had completely dried out what’s so hard about that

[limpid summit]

I wonder if Monomon got designs from some Weaver historian for the jellies

[stray grove]

Why is bro doing gymnastics to justify a headcanon that literally doesn’t matter

Khann’s empire could have fallen whenever

Karak dried up post conductor era

That’s it

[limpid summit]

Blah blah blah

I asked a question to bobbittt

[edgy nebula]

it falling weaver era is cooler because falling to the conductors is lame behavior

[stray grove]

How or why it fell is besides the point

And the game kind of makes a point of it not mattering

[limpid summit]

Nothing is beside the point

[limpid summit]

Fair

[stray grove]

So I don’t understand this insistence to try and work out when it falls in the timeline

[edgy nebula]

i find it weird how karak's whole theme is being lost to time despite it not falling very long ago ngl

[limpid summit]

I guess we shouldn’t have expected anything from Seth’s backstory

As the game makes the point that his old identity doesn’t matter

[stray grove]

It being a downstream effect of the shit the citadel were doing is perfectly reasonable

[limpid summit]

Let’s just not talk about it at all

[edgy nebula]

idrk, i dont think so

[limpid summit]

But it genuinely doesn’t make sense

[stray grove]

I mean yeah there’s nothing to talk about wrt that great example mate 🥴

[limpid summit]

How are they similar it’s not convergent or divergent evolution because one is artificial

[edgy nebula]

coincidence maybe? they look pretty distinct from yumas

oumas and oomas are much taller

yumas and yumamas are wider

[limpid summit]

I guess they have more of a skirt

Uoma is the basic one it’s the yuma equivalent

Oomas are just stretched uomas

[edgy nebula]

eeehhh

[muted lantern]

I can't believe they named an enemy yumama

[limpid summit]

The crust conceals...
The crust covers...
Our shells made strong...
Our nest made secret...

Why did dumbass TC give this to the Yumas lmao

“Our shells” you’re jellyfish

[muted lantern]

honestly i wonder if we are gonna get lore on monomons species in the dlcs

[edgy nebula]

they probably got a little lazy

[limpid summit]

How do they respond to the Needolin anyway

[edgy nebula]

i feel like we shouldve gotten more citadel influence in karak, that wouldve been nice

[limpid summit]

Cause like pretty much every other Karaka doesn’t

Which does make sense

Do they just decide to sing

Like Crawfather

[edgy nebula]

wiki says they dont sing

so the dialogue just appears on screen

[limpid summit]

Needolin so inconsistent bruh

Take me back to the DN

[edgy nebula]

the yuma ndd might just be a bug ngl

i forgot if any other karak memory enemies respond

[limpid summit]

The floating fish dudes do

All types

So that’s weird

The non sapient enemies are compelled to sing despite not being haunted

[edgy nebula]

i also wonder what "our nest made secret" means in the karak enemies ndd, cause its probably referring to the coral tower but also why would they nest there

[limpid summit]

I’m sure it’s a mistake and TC just has a beast/bug variable that they click on and off

[edgy nebula]

maybe

[limpid summit]

Maybe it’s like a mutualistic relationship

They understand the Karaka keep them safe

But that doesn’t make sense with both enemy types ugh

[edgy nebula]

it's a little sad that return of the king never answered my question

[limpid summit]

Oh don’t mind him

He just likes to cause trouble

[low kestrel]

Hornet is the roaring knight (CONFIRMED)

[shell magnet]

Who is hornet?

I am only familiar with "the silksong"

[graceful grail]

Weaver and GMS timeline, VERY open to suggestions 😊

[graceful grail]

Question: If GMS can bind with the part Weavers that are brought to her, why can’t she bind with all the Weaver shrines in Pharloom??

[edgy nebula]

she cant awaken to bind with them, they cant be transported due to being lodged into the huge structures, and she probably just cant sense them either

[tacit crown]

Isn't Hornet's ability to Bind creatures a Wyrm's Nature thing? or is it part of a Higher Being's Ability?

[graceful grail]

Bind uses silk, also, First sinner does it

[graceful grail]

Soul can be focused to heal

[tacit crown]

I'm more of refering to Hornet's ability to Bind Natures (the Crests, EVA, etc) to herself

[graceful grail]

Everything she binds with is laced with silk mind you

[limpid summit]

A few things I’m not 100% sure about but might move around are the Cindril escape and Eva

They were likely pre Citadel

Now the Whiteward and cogwork core are confusing

Because the Cogwork animatronics were made to sustain the Core which was conductor era

[graceful grail]

Witeward needs to be before cogwork because silk flies.

[limpid summit]

But Whiteward would have been making silkflies for something

Maybe for just the early robots like the Choruses and Sentinels

Because we know the latter was pre Conductors at least

[graceful grail]

Thats if a bug cant sing anymore. Is was also healing using the binding of silk

[limpid summit]

Whiteward also probably wasn’t to make regular bugs immortal that was for the conductors

[limpid summit]

Yeah they were turned into silkflies to guide other bugs up

They might have not even animated robots until conductor era

Eh no I guess the Architects use them

But it was probably just them

[graceful grail]

Remember Loam is running the gears, not some cogwork atomaton

[limpid summit]

Yes

They still used regular bugs

The Cogwork core and all the robots were created through the Conductors’ last edict

[edgy nebula]

citadel probably wouldve survived if they spent their time making automatons for the underworks instead of sustaining the cogwork core

[limpid summit]

True

[tacit crown]

okay so why I bring this up is because Eva seems surprised that Hornet can Bind natures to her, and if the weavers could do it (they seemingly studied crests) then why is Eva surprised by Hornet's abstract crest nature? I'm just suggesting a difference has to have happened with hornet to have gained the ability to Bind identities to herself. it just seems odd... like why were the Weavers so hopeful (?) about hornet's birth? what was special for the 'Spider of pale birth' or whatever?
anyways this is just something I picked up in my play through and it's been bothering me.

[edgy nebula]

OH do you guys wanna listen to mnemonid and mnemonord asmr

[limpid summit]

Some other things Weavers might have done post Citadel would have been:
-Treaty with Nyleth
-Going back to the Weavenests to try and make tools
-Entombing themselves after vowing the Citadel would go on forever

Sure

[limpid summit]

Oh it’s cause of her half Wyrm wide

Side

Her nature is malleable

[edgy nebula]

10 hour mnemonid crunching to fall asleep to

this too

[limpid summit]

They were hopeful about her birth because they fled to Hallownest and other places before GMS even fell asleep

So they didn’t really know what was going on

They were hoping after the infection wrapped up and Hornet grew up she’d go back to Pharloom and kill GMS

[tacit crown]

I get that I was just explaining my reasoning to someone else, but thanks for elaborating further

[limpid summit]

Oh I got you

[tacit crown]

just making a point that GMS can't bind to half-weavers Ig,

which perhaps came from a assumption about Ending B?

[prime mantle]

i doubt weavers would be around after the conductors, so the fleeing and eva would have to happen before. the fact that they're delegating alone means they've no interest in staying

eva very likely happens before gms is put to slumber as she was a plan to overtake her

[limpid summit]

Yuss

The tricks and traps Eva talks about are all around Atla including an early Bellshrine

So pre Citadel

She was part of the “weave hope anew” thing

[teal sinew]

were there ever ingame explanation about what the mask shards/silk spools/vessel shards are?

[graceful grail]

Is this more accurate?? Weaver and GMS timeline.

[limpid summit]

Close enuff

It’s all a bit muddled anyway I don’t want to act like your interpretation is crazy

[graceful grail]

I just putting it here because it’s easy to change stuff around. I intend to make a polished version after. Like to confirm it’s legitimately first.

[muted lantern]

it is possible cindril weavers fled during the "weavers transpire against gms" era, as we know that only some groups of weavers fled while others stayed and got mummified.

unles im missing some text that says otherwise

[potent blaze]

gms doesnt wake up, its just bugs are so influenced with silk that gms can control them even while sleeping. she only wakes up once we challenge her

[robust wagon]

The only thing I'd have an issue with is GMS waking up before hornet challenges her

[dreamy onyx]

yeah this is basically correct

though i think that the Weavers in that cutscene were actually worshipping her through song

Widow and First Sinner could've been whenever, Widow especially depends on exactly when and how the Weaver's who fled did so

plus who fled and who didn't

[graceful grail]

Well, the end of the widow cutscene has GMS doing her scream and them all looking up and stop playing. As if she is coming for them. Then GMS light blasts the screen.

My transition is that that was the time when GMS killed those weavers.

Thats how i see that cutscene

[dreamy onyx]

i dont think GMS killed weavers until she started binding them to herself

[graceful grail]

Either way i see gms doing it herself at the end of that cutscene.

Anyways gtg, fighting karmaleta now with architect no red tools base needle 😊

[dreamy onyx]

also the text says "For her light... eternal... our song sustains."

[dreamy onyx]

😨

good luck

[graceful grail]

just first tried the CKK Gauntlet so i thonk ill be fine 😏

Im preparing for SOS Bindings

[stray grove]

• We don’t know when Eva was made but it would be more reasonable to assume she was made post Citadel, and her purpose wasn’t to replace GMS. “Divinity mimicked in form too frail” is a reference to the Weavers who considered themselves divine, as she says herself she was an attempt to overcome their inability to reproduce
• First Sinner likely preceded Widow because as her name suggests she was the first criminal to be convicted and imprisoned in the slab. Widow is the “twelfth of the first”
• The concept of the pilgrimage likely preceded the Conductors, we know the Weavers were actively luring bugs to serve in the Citadel
• Cindril Weavers left long before the Citadel was established, prior to GMS’ sealing
• We don’t know when the “Silk Children” were made, they could have been made at literally any point in the timeline

[prime mantle]

awesome chart

i dont think eva was an attempt for them overcoming their inability to reproduce, iirc she mentions that because they build her as a child

weavers consider themselves divine, but i doubt the text would specifically hint at that unless it was trying to make a connection to the only true divinity in pharloom, gms

[stray grove]

I am unique, you see. My mothers shared the curse of their tribe, to conceive a child is a painful, near impossible task.
Hornet: I know the curse well, Eva, for I am also its victim, and spawn of one who managed to overcome its limits.
Hornet: Are you too an attempt to defy that cruel constraint?
A flawed attempt. A life spun from rune and shell, sustained only by its cage. My thoughts may mimic a Weavers, but my senses are my own.
Over time, that difference brought only distance between us.

Eva was an attempt to defy that “cruel constraint” i.e. their inability to reproduce

That was her purpose rather than an attempt to supplant/“mimic” GMS

And her thoughts mimic a Weaver’s not GMS’

[whole holly]

hey king

[dry compass]

Could the Memorium been something akin to the British Museum? Yeah this is quite the question.

But i heard this somewhere so uh i mean the point is solid the evidence is just weak to say the least, so i am just asking here

[whole holly]

that is open to interpretation, Memorium kept ecosystems to be remembered, Verdania was destined to forget according to them, so it is possible, also note that verdania is only one that can't be sustained by a heart, given Clover Dancer's tragedy, even Khann is alive in the way, just dried up

[dry compass]

I mean the only evidence i can think of, that the Memorium was just a Museum but evil

Was that one room with corpses of the Bugs everywhere, and That one tablet saying Verdania is destined to be forgotten. But thoss 2 are really weak

[whole holly]

i mean if you think they kept ecosystems as trophy that is your headcanon, but they also somewhat mutated certain species in environment they provided, they also took advantages from natural resources at their disposal, given that Volt Vessels are sourced from Karak environment, so i wouldn't say they respect and preserve it, they keep it as memorabilia

[dry compass]

Fair i suppose

[whole holly]

they straight up somewhat "made example out of" Clover Dancers, so it would be in line with Citadel's characteristics and goals overall

not a weak assumption but also not a strong one

[dry compass]

Yeah thats fair i suppose the Citadel could've just used the preserve Pharlooms, Ecosystems as a Lie

[craggy smelt]

By the time the Weavenests were being filled with stuff to bind Silk, the Weavers had been disabused of the idea that they were divine. That should be especially true of those working in Weavenest Atla if Atla is the First Sinner. Her Weavenest has got all the proto-Citadel stuff.

The only divinity around to mimic would be Silk.

[whole holly]

yeah they are

[whole holly]

true, Eva is made to mimic divinity and she is made from Rune and Shell(Shell most likely being iron shell)

[craggy smelt]

It's not an either-or thing with Eva being a child of the Weavers or an effort to supplant Silk - it can be both.
Rune Harps:

"Hide her deep, the despised child, our shame shown in shell of iron. She is a wish cast vain, divinity mimicked in form too frail."
We shall die, and wait, and pray, that one may come of silken strength enough to weave us free.
They were hoping for a savior, and they tried to make their own.
A similar hope might have been behind the initial motivation to conceive Hornet.
Herrah didn't care about what the Weavers wanted by the time Hornet was actually born, but she might not have always felt that way.

Given Eva needs to be sustained in a tank similar to the one Phantom was in at one point, it's likely Eva is the Weaver's effort to create a 'silkborn' entity like Lace and Phantom - a greater effort than something like the Weaverlings.

Hence Eva being very frail, and also Eva granting Sylphsong, a powerful skill whose rune evokes Silk's own crown somewhat. They tried to make a mini-Silk as their savior and it didn't work out.

[whole holly]

only if they gave eva Cogwork like body but that's citadels invention

[craggy smelt]

the iron shell refers to her tank

pretty sure she's all silk in there

[whole holly]

yeah, i meant to convey that, as i thought what you are clarifying was common enough knowledge and didn't need to be said

[whole holly]

that's what i am saying yeah

[craggy smelt]

then I think you're right

also if you look at her achievo icon

no legs
just head, torso, butt, and hair

just like Silk

[whole holly]

that's her True/actual body, which vaguely resembles GMS and Weavers

Eva's sense are similar to GMS's Silken Sight

[craggy smelt]

I don't agree with this theory that First Sinner was trying to expose that the Weavers weren't divine to anyone
(I think Mossbag made it? I forget where it started)
again, if the First Sinner is Atla, then her Weavenest is where all the Citadel stuff is being made - there's bellshrines and stuff being made in there
the Citadel is run on pilgrim power and requires a steady stream of pilgrims to operate
it wouldn't follow that Atla/Sinner would set up the ultimate trap, have it be pilgrim-powered, and then run around trying to reveal to pilgrims that their 'gods' were fake

Sinner might have been angry that Silk lied about the Weavers being divine, but it doesn't necessarily follow that she would then want to reveal that truth to all the common bugs

plus she was locked up in the Slab for apostasy - abandoning a god - rather than something like blasphemy or heresy (speaking false doctrine or whatever)

[craggy smelt]

less so with Weavers

not much in the way of an ass

look at widow - no ass

except for Herrah

don't know what her problem is

[whole holly]

sure but i would argue overall head shape being cone is adjacent to weaver's round face and first sinner body, also GMS as well

[craggy smelt]

I think the Sylphsong rune is meant to evoke her head

little onion head

the little fin-things kinda make her seem aquatic to me, actually

fish-fins, some kinda atlantean fairy princess

I dunno, tired

goodnight everybody

[whole holly]

guys i found technical lore plausibility in silksong, given that we distinguish Old Hearts from Nightmare Heart, Void Heart and Lifeblood Heart, i have reason to think that they aren't different

Nyleth, Karmelita and Khann are last successors that bear the old hearts, that suggests a cycle of hearts being passed down and they have connection to memories, which seer implies are same as dreams, Hearts themselves don't die in traditional way and are passed down, hornet even keeps it as memento

Troupemaster Grimm is also a successor vessel of nightmare heart, he himself is a mortal, he collects nightmare essence with has connections to dreams and by extension memories, he also maintains troupe

he is leader in vague way Nyleth, Khann and Karmelita are

[marble oasis]

except grimm doesn’t bear the nightmare heart?

[whole holly]

it is in his mind/nightmare realm... to be specific, we also take old hearts from memories

[marble oasis]

no we don’t

we take the hearts from their bodies

[whole holly]

he bears it in every way that is relevant

[marble oasis]

the memory fight is to liven them up

[marble oasis]

he doesn’t bear it at all

[whole holly]

that's very specific interpretation that is disingenuous solely to disprove connection, Old Hearts are in memories and transported to physical realm

[marble oasis]

We will teach you how, in the way befitting a Weaver, a sombre song to reach down into their memories and enliven them a final time.

[whole holly]

me may not physically hold it but he bears it, in meaning that is containing it

[whole holly]

that shouldn't be taken at face value for purpose of undermining theory that doesn't fit popular lore consensus

[whole holly]

that also happens to grimm, in his final fight, in the way, it is analogous

[marble oasis]

please tell me where the heart is in this screenshot

it’s not like the everbloom where we come out of the dream with it

it was in her chest and now it’s on the ground

[whole holly]

we also get Dream Nail in Dream Realm and take it to physical realm, Dream Weider charm is literally plucked from Seer's memories

[marble oasis]

.

sometimes different things are different

[whole holly]

with that logic, memories aren't required at if you imply that memory aspect is insignificant

[marble oasis]

it is

it livens up the fading heart

[whole holly]

hearts falling out is symbolic more than anything

[whole holly]

so do we in NKG fight/ritual, and Grimmchild obtains it, just with different symbolism

[whole holly]

heart in every way that matters is accessed from memories, we don't see heart falling from they abdomen that doesn't make sense, Pollen heart is in a Flower... it is vague symbolism

we don't see punctured chest

[marble oasis]

nyleth is a flower man

flower, man

that’s her flower

[whole holly]

exactly my point, physical aspects are symbolic and Elegy of Deep/Memory Realm does play in it in same way Nightmare Heart ritual, outcomes are slightly different

and it is not really significantly relevant, i already said it is symbolism

[marble oasis]

the outcome is the same

you die in the dream you die in real life

it just happens that grimm burns up and the old hearts leave a corpse to pluck the heart from

[whole holly]

that's my point overall outcome is a same but i was saying way we witness it is different

[whole holly]

exactly, Grimm bears the Nightmare Heart in every way that matters, he contains it, it doesn't matter if it is in his physical body, you are creating new distinction to keep Grimm out of that group, but that doesn't matter, no one said heart ritual can't be unique, maybe Grimmchild did pluck out heart and we don't witness it, point i that, we don't have Grimmchild's perspective who is supposed to have heart transferred to him, Knight just fights in Nightmare Realm and wakes up to see Grimmchild with a heart, his perspective is limited and our consensus is limited to his perspective, which leaves us without conclusions

[marble oasis]

nightmare heart is a dream deity who absorbs the flames of grimm’s sacrifice in the ritual and transfers itself to grimmchild

[fresh badger]

Grimm is not an old heart wut

[whole holly]

which we don't see how it manifests from Grimm's perspective

[whole holly]

what are Old Hearts but last successors of their hearts, Grimm or Grimmchild is that in events of hollow knight game depending on time

[marble oasis]

old hearts are mortal power

nightmare heart (while it can be killed, all higher beings can) is immortal power

[whole holly]

Grimm is mortal

[whole holly]

holders, vessels, bearers are mortal

[marble oasis]

source

[whole holly]

? we see it in game, father is burned to feed the child, his life is meant to end, that's part of ritual and his life cycle which by definition makes him mortal in every way that matters

[marble oasis]

grimm is no ordinary bug

[whole holly]

and?

[marble oasis]

he has complete control of every bug in the troupe

dream awareness

[whole holly]

so?

[marble oasis]

so he’s a god in human form

bug form

[whole holly]

still mortal... death is part of his life cycle, that's mortality in every way that matters

[whole holly]

Seer has that, as well as Midwife

[whole holly]

i am going to need source of this? isn't it masks that keep them controlled?

[marble oasis]

he can watch us when we do the ritual

okay i misinterpreted his scarlet sight

he can see pretty much everywhere in the kingdom except deepnest

[whole holly]

not relevant to mortality

[fresh badger]

The point is that Grimm himself is just a vessel for a higher being

His power is just the higher being's power

Its not the power of a mortal

Its the power of a god

[whole holly]

three hearts can make up Pale Higher Beings power, if power of higher beings vary a lot, and holder of that Heart Higher Being himself is a mortal, i don't think it is as distinct as you make out to be.

[fresh badger]

No??

Hornet wasnt a pale higher being

[whole holly]

i am talking about Grand Mother Silk...

Red Memory spell requires power adjacent of Pale Higher Being: "Chapel Maid: We could do it. The spell can be cast, with enough power, enormous power, equal maybe to that monarch..."

it suggests Hearts proximity to power of higher being

[fresh badger]

MAYBE

[whole holly]

word maybe can be interpreted as roughly

even if it is not equal to monarch, it is still enormous power

[fresh badger]

The better power relevance is Hornet saying if they used her power she wouldnt be strong enough to take out GMS

[whole holly]

that's something they are sure about

[fresh badger]

Meaning it takes less power than Hornet has

[twilit pecan]

Is lace an actual child in the lore

[whole holly]

Hornet is still not a regular bug, though, she is still close in proximity to higher being, she has clear potential to achieve that status and she defeats GMS in Weaver Queen Ending

[stray fog]

Yep

[twilit pecan]

How, like mentally?

[stray fog]

Shes an eternal child

Even though she has lived for a long time

And she acts like a child too

[twilit pecan]

Okay, thanks

[dire lynx]

yes

[edgy nebula]

yeah

[echo moon]

mentally and physically

[whole holly]

guys is there unique interaction with equipping Spider Strings during special Needolin moments? i haven't found anything, Vaultkeeper Melody ignores fact that i have Spider Strings equipped and effect turns off, that's all i have found

[echo moon]

Fairly certain it only affects the range of the needolin

[whole holly]

i saw someone say that it makes weaver memories sing along, and game has code that suggests that spider strings was supposed to be permanent upgrade to needolin, with making it level 2(whatever that means, likely upgrade to effects) i know it is scapped content i am just curious if it was unique interactions devs accidentally left it in

has anyone equipped Spider Strings for Snared Silk ending? or in any important and relevant needolin use?

[midnight reef]

All it has is some references to an old "attunement" system

Which would've worked as an upgrade, but it'd have been useless in practice

[whole holly]

is there some leftovers regarding that which made into full game?

[midnight reef]

Yes

[whole holly]

such as?i mean effects of the attunement, that unintentionally made it in game, to be specific(not effects of spider strings alone)

[midnight reef]

No, any effects of attunement in game are intentionally kept by TC

[whole holly]

okay, thanks...

[lone folio]

Absolutely nothing

When I saw tormented trobbios quest I thought "oh stage?? Oh my god I will have an awesome music performance with trobbios and that's why the spider strings are in the game!"

Then I went there and it was a bossfight

But it was one of my favorites so I'm not complaining

[desert totem]

I think fleas are like cats in that they’d eat your corpse if you died suddenly

I have no evidence of this I just know it in my soul to be true

[dire lynx]

i mean, they do eat the moorwing...

[formal valley]

THEORY THEORY I HAVE A THEORY

I HAVE A THEORY

So

I think that the hunter can be some kind of (or can be a mix of) weavers

It CANNOT be comfirmed because there are no enoguh evidence but its not a completely rejectable theory

If you look the hunter has six eyes, big head over a thin body and the crest that hornet has at the beggining is named hunter's crest

[craggy smelt]

there's no direct connection as far as we know, but

maybe some kind of convergent evolution...

any sufficiently predatory/intelligent bug will start to take on a similar form...?

[formal valley]

I dont know i dont know but the hunter says that "can she be a hunter?" about hornet in his journal

So i think being a hunter is some kind of a bloodline or a clan or something like that

Because there is a hunters mark that hunter gives us after completing all journal entries

AND

the hunters mark and the hunter memento

Has the same mark on them

The same carving

Also, quote "𝑠𝑒𝑎𝑙 𝑠𝑦𝑚𝑏𝑜𝑙 𝑔𝑖𝑣𝑒𝑛 𝑖𝑛 𝑟𝑒𝑐𝑜𝑔𝑛𝑖𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛 𝑜𝑓 𝑎 𝑡𝑟𝑢𝑒 𝐻𝑢𝑛𝑡𝑒𝑟, 𝑠𝑡𝑎𝑚𝑝𝑒𝑑 𝑖𝑛 𝑠𝑡𝑖𝑐𝑘𝑦 𝑔𝑜𝑜" That goo probably means Nuu because you know

But the real question is

Why Nuu has it?

And the other question is

Why the word "Hunter" begins with a capital letter?

There is a lot going about hunter and people are missing it so bad i think

[limpid summit]

It’s cause Hunter is a sort of status like Relic Seeker

It’s something you can become

[dire lynx]

if hunter was a part weaver, why didnt the choir grab him when they got hornet

[limpid summit]

Hunter is just like oh she’s fierce

[formal valley]

Maybe that hunter clan or something was begun with weavers

[limpid summit]

I honestly would accept that Hunter was designed to be visually similar to Weavers before Weaver lore and their role in Silksong was fleshed out

Like TC took similar design cues like with THK and Mantis Lords

But idk if there’s a real similarity in game as of now

[formal valley]

Hunter cannot be a weaver already because there are just female weavers

But i dunno maybe just because of weavers designed later you can be right

That also explains why harrah is so seperated from other weavers

BUT

i dont think team cherry will get along with that

[dire lynx]

retcon

[formal valley]

Maybe not a direct connection but they could be write some lore abt it or their connection

I dont think these things are completely empty

[craggy smelt]

likely not a bloodline for the reasons people have mentioned
but there does seem to be a phenomenon that some bugs form these strange groups or cabals with shared goals
the Relic Keepers, the Sprintmasters, the Mask Makers, etc.
maybe that includes Hunters

[formal valley]

YES YES YES

The real thing like

How can they be seperated for their jobs?

[limpid summit]

It’s because Team Cherry is creatively bankrupt and all they can write are different groups who move through dead kingdoms like tourists

Snitchbugs Relic Seekers Sprintmasters Mask Makers Grimm Troupe Shrumals Chroniclers Steelhearts

[formal valley]

Also relic seekers are not look alike

[dire lynx]

there is no connection between the weavers and hunters

[formal valley]

Yes but i dont think everything is a coincidence

Also why siz eye?

Six*

[dire lynx]

because it communicates the idea of a beast

[formal valley]

We have never seen any bug with six eye until weavers

[formal valley]

If thats it, the savage beastfly should be six eyed, or the beasts crest. Not the hunters crest

Even hornet says that savage beastfly is wakes some kind of beast or primal instinct in her

[dire lynx]

stalking devouts, deephunters

[limpid summit]

It’s probably just to be scary looking

[formal valley]

Also cant be about hunters because Nuu has also hunters memento or the karmelita and skarrs was hunters but they dont have six eyes

[limpid summit]

Verm didn’t mean beast in HK context cause that just means “animal”

They meant like

A monster

[formal valley]

I think its about scary looking too because when we look

[limpid summit]

Hunter and weavers are both monster-like

[formal valley]

Oh

But the real thing i wanted to come was

There are no natural six eyed bug in hollow knight

[sonic sleet]

isn't it kinda crazy how widow, first sinner, lace and phantom are siblings

[formal valley]

How the thing i said is wrong

[formal valley]

Arent they from the bloodline of weavers?

[limpid summit]

Nah

[formal valley]

WHAT

[dire lynx]

no, they are from hallownest

[limpid summit]

Deephunters and devouts are native to Deepnest

They likely worshipped the king of Deepnest and then when Herrah married him they worshipped her after he died

[foggy fractal]

I'm sure theres also a bunch of dead bugs in the background that have six eyes

[limpid summit]

True

[formal valley]

Do you guys think that eye number affects on anything?

I dont think but there should be sometjing i tjink

[dire lynx]

not really

[formal valley]

Hmm

[limpid summit]

Likely not

[formal valley]

Okay forget abt all i said in six eyes

[formal valley]

They are not eyes

Maybe

No they are eyes

Wait how do we know they are native to the deepnest??

There are nothing about it?)

[dire lynx]

they live in deepnest and arent weavers

[formal valley]

HOW DO WE KNOW THEY ARE WEAVERS

HARRAH IS A WEAVER

EVEN HORNET IS FROM WEAVERS BLOODLINE

[dire lynx]

ok?

is midwife a weaver?

[formal valley]

both of them does not looks like other weavers too??

[formal valley]

Can be why not

[dire lynx]

the old king of deepnest?

[formal valley]

Thats the real thing

I think

[dire lynx]

she looks nothing like a weaver

[formal valley]

So is hornet?

[dire lynx]

This border bounds the twisting, scratching things.
Their dead sire, once of honoured caste.
Their sealed mother, but the common beast.
No peace with them we make.

we know there were other spiders in deepnest before the weavers

[dire lynx]

hornet is half wyrm

[formal valley]

Who said there were spiders

[formal valley]

I WAS TRYING TO EXPLAIN

That

The old king of deepnest probably was some kind of worm or garpede

[dire lynx]

the massive silk village

[formal valley]

And when harrah arrived the mixed genes made those bugs

Or arachnids if you say

[formal valley]

Cannot it be done AFTER harrah arrived?

There is no evidence or cause that not happened

[dire lynx]

weaver silk is magic

[formal valley]

Also i want to mention that black widow spiders eats their mates bla bla bla or hornets life span did not cathced their mates

[graceful grail]

Question, is it possible that Phantom is Pre GMS sleep??

[formal valley]

So maybe harrah was the same and mated different bugs and different genes made different bugs in deepnest

[formal valley]

And?

[dire lynx]

the silk village isnt made of magic silk

[formal valley]

Not every silk is magic silk??

Like not every weaver silk is magic silk also

Also how can you see the difference between magic sikk and normal silk?

There are tons of silk in silksong which are NOT shining white, healing or making some kind of spell

[dire lynx]

weavers silk is limited, so they wouldnt waste it on building a village

[graceful grail]

This is in weavenest atla, it looks like the ones in deepnest.

[formal valley]

I dunno

[dire lynx]

there were weavers in deepnest, but not every citizen was a weaver

[formal valley]

They can be connected to the weavers

[dire lynx]

midwife also makes a clear distinction between herself and the weavers/herrah

"That village above here, home to a sad creature. Hers is a tale of tragic exchange. Cost her and her people greatly, though I suspect she bore no regret in making it."

[formal valley]

What about weavenests?

[dire lynx]

what about them

[formal valley]

Weavenests covered with silk

Also the whole architecture is similar

[dire lynx]

grandmother silks thread, not the weavers

its all over pharloom when we get there

[formal valley]

How do you know?

[dire lynx]

prove its the weavers silk

how about that

[formal valley]

The weavers literally tried to hide from gms in weavenests

[dire lynx]

we know the weavers have a limited amount of silk, why would they waste it on nothing

[formal valley]

If it was gms silk why gms didnt stopped their flee or anything?

[formal valley]

How do we know it?

First sinner was literally binding spells with that

[dire lynx]

Sister, spider, sat between salt and stone,
Build those tools of brilliant mind imagined,
Aid us when our Silk has waned.

they were interested in inventing and such because they knew they would need it after their magic ran out

[formal valley]

Bro even hornets silk was limited im not talking about that

Like they can gather it from different places

The silk is literally weavers way of containing soul

[dire lynx]

weavers can turn their own soul into silk

[formal valley]

"Magic silk" is not magic silk its soul

[formal valley]

Hornet is healing herself not harming

[dire lynx]

hornet is a half pale wyrm (a being heavily associated with infinite soul)

[formal valley]

Okay so the other half comes from weavers witch are from the gms who is a pale being

[dire lynx]

they are elevated pharlids, they have no divinty of their own

[formal valley]

And gms has infinite silk=infinite soul

[dire lynx]

first sinner says it herself

[dire lynx]

Aid us when our Silk has waned.

Aid us when our Silk has waned.

Aid us when our Silk has waned.

Aid us when our Silk has waned.

Aid us when our Silk has waned.

[formal valley]

I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT IT

i am talking about

[dire lynx]

because it debunks what you are saying

[formal valley]

That weavers are not gathering silk from themselves

[dire lynx]

weavers have limited silk

[formal valley]

They can GATHER IT

[dire lynx]

from where

[formal valley]

FROM OTHER BUG SOULS

LIKE THE HORNET

[dire lynx]

thats a unique ability of hornet, from the pale king side

[sinful nimbus]

Is there proof of that

[dire lynx]

its the same ability as the knight

[sinful nimbus]

The fact that they were anticipating a time where they could not rely on silk usage probably means they couldn't

[formal valley]

How do we know what if weavers can do bang and boom boom i can silk

[dire lynx]

then why would they be concerned about their silk running out

Aid us when our Silk has waned.

[formal valley]

Maybe you can be right if we think about from your sayings

They could not breed (because it was too painful to birth) so if they die for using too much silk it would be their bloodline end

Sorry for having same level english as a bunny on meth

[graceful willow]

Hello!

[formal valley]

Hi!

[sinful nimbus]

Widow corroborates this yea

[dire lynx]

you also never actually addressed this

[sinful nimbus]

Only OG weaver still around is the one who can't use silk

[dire lynx]

hello

[sinful nimbus]

Some weavers might've died to other factors though

Fayforn

[formal valley]

What should i pull from there?

I didnt understand

[dire lynx]

im sure khann or his army probably got a few

[dire lynx]

midwife puts a distinction between herself and "herrahs people" aka weavers

[formal valley]

OH

Midwife

You said widow

I was trying to understand

[limpid summit]

I don’t understand what she means here anymore though

She didn’t do anything to the Weavers

I think this might still just mean the Nest

[dire lynx]

mixed the two names up

[limpid summit]

They were her peeps too

[formal valley]

But thats actually just what midwife said

[dire lynx]

yes, but widow was also one of them

[formal valley]

If we look to the saying that midwife looks harrah a bit selfish, right?

But the others are worshipping her

[dire lynx]

and she still draws a distinction, she doesnt say "cost us" or "cost deepnest"

[spark valve]

she says her people

[formal valley]

Maybe midwife was a riot or something? So she called others as "her person" and not tried to be one of them

[spark valve]

when you talk about the people of a ruler what does that mean

[limpid summit]

Midwife is trying to paint herself as a regular old lady

[formal valley]

Like some kid who refers as "some guy" in his dad at prison

[limpid summit]

She’s not gonna say cost us greatly cause she’s trying to lure TK close

“I’m not like those monstrous spiders out there”

[formal valley]

Yesyes she is trying to act like she is not like them

[spark valve]

it's also a lot more syntactically natural than cost her and us much like

obviously it's gonna be written the way it is the alternative is clumsy as hell

[graceful willow]

Is there a good place to start about the lore? I did act 3

[formal valley]

Read whole wiki

Start from higher beings

But you can start from the mostly complete story of hollow knight from mossbag

He gives the start and outlines of the whole lore

[graceful grail]

Weavers being sparse with their silk -

[dire lynx]

Aid us when our Silk has waned.

[graceful grail]

Maybe its hard to make silk when weavers are older.

[formal valley]

So my theory can be true

[formal valley]

Thank you

[spark valve]

Having limited silk and being responsible with limited silk are not the same thing

[formal valley]

I think the ones who fleed from gms can use infinite silk and the others cannot

Like the first sinner literally makes spells continously

If there was a limit why need to seal her with fully protection

[spark valve]

First sinner 1 didn’t flee 2 is a memory 3 bosses not having limits on how many times they can use a move is usually gameplay

[formal valley]

Like the chains was almost the same as hollow knights why that much protection if not that powerful

[spark valve]

Pinstress probably does not canonically carry infinite pins

[formal valley]

Fleeing is not going another kingdom, im talking about rejecting gms and being a riot to her

Like i think gms is limited their silk using

[formal valley]

If she is a memory why need to seal her??

I think that she is not a memory but like

She can pull you into a memory

[spark valve]

the fight is a memory but they did actually lock her down there

[formal valley]

With force

[formal valley]

Yes i know i know im trying to say

If the silk is limited why sealed her?

Just wait her silk to finish

[spark valve]

The ‘aid us when our silk has waned’ comment is made in a weavenest anyways which means it was somebody who wasn’t on board with GMS

[spark valve]

So she can’t break out?

[dire lynx]

she was causing problems, and they didnt want her running around

[formal valley]

Why they didnt seal her like others

[spark valve]

‘If the prisoner will starve to death why lock the door’ I don’t know what the reasoning here is

[formal valley]

But VERY VERY special

ALSO

First sinner can heal

So its not something special to hornet

I was right

Abt not all things

But something

[dire lynx]

all weavers can bind, nobody disagreed with that

[formal valley]

NOT BINDING

Healing

She CAN literally heal

[dire lynx]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Bind

...

[formal valley]

So?

[dire lynx]

can you read

[formal valley]

You said that weavers using their own soul

If first sinner uses her own soul how can she heal?

[dire lynx]

use soul power to knit the shell back together

[formal valley]

If weavers use their own soul to bind and produce silk they shouldnt even be able to heal

[formal valley]

HER OWN soul power

Literally her OWN life

[dire lynx]

yes, repairing the body at the cost of life power

what is so hard to understand about that, its a very common trope

[formal valley]

What?? It doesnt work like that first sinner is literally HEALING

like he increases her own LIFE

Just like hornet

Not repairing the body

[dire lynx]

what happens to hornet if she has full soul but all her masks break

[formal valley]

First, masks are made of soul

[dire lynx]

there is a difference between the state of the body and life force

[formal valley]

The EXTRA life force

[dire lynx]

masks are made of pale ore, not soul

[formal valley]

Not the life force you required to live

[blissful harbor]

wym that’s how hornets bind works
she wraps her wounds with soul bandages ™

[formal valley]

The life force you required to live is masks

[formal valley]

No no i completely misunderstood what he saying

The extra life, who can be accumulated in somewhere is not the same life you have

The life you have is your body, the masks

The extra life CAN be used for repairing the body or making spells

[edgy nebula]

topic?

[formal valley]

If you use your own life (the masks) to get extra life (the silk or soul what you call it)

You cannot heal yourself

You just come back where you start

Its like going one step futrher and one step closer again

[dire lynx]

this guy thinks every spider in deepnest is a weaver, that weavers have unlimited silk and that the hunter is connected to weavers

[edgy nebula]

[formal valley]

I do not think every spider is a weaver

Every spider is CONNECTED to the weavers

[graceful grail]

Lets look at the bind, silk strings around you then tightens, it is Literally squishing your shell together.

[formal valley]

Yes because it heals

Like this guy saying that weavers using their own souls to make silks and spells

[edgy nebula]

“Aid us when our silk has waned” actively implies they run out of silk

[formal valley]

I am understanding that as they are using their own MADKS

masks$

Masks*

[edgy nebula]

silk is spun from the soul of their creator

[graceful grail]

Silk from soul conversion is an art, its stated my seamstress

Its not unique to hornet

[edgy nebula]

they use silk made of their soul and die when they run out

[formal valley]

Vro im trying to say

That if you use your masks to bind

You cant heal

You just come where you start

First sinner is literallt healing

[graceful grail]

Masks represent your shell’s integrity

Not your soul

[formal valley]

Vro WHERE IS YOUR SOUL

[edgy nebula]

first sinner uses silk to repair her shell

[formal valley]

HOW WHERE IS YOUR SOUL WHERE DO WE SEE THE SOUL

[edgy nebula]

the silk she uses to repair her shell is simply not enough to hurt her

thats why she binds

because it’s better to than not

[formal valley]

i dont even know if someone am i right or wrong its just

Wtaf is works like that like

[formal valley]

Hmmmm

[graceful grail]

Using silk dosent hurt hornet, its not like wolverine’s claws

[dire lynx]

hornet is special, thanks to pale king genes

[edgy nebula]

the silk used throughout a lifetime will eventually lead fo a weaver’s death, but using it to bind wont

[blissful harbor]

hornet is kinda special
she can hit shit to gain soul, which yk is then either woven into silk or combined with existing silk whatever

[formal valley]

Yea thats true

[dire lynx]

binding enough times would lead to death (not a realistic occurence though)

[graceful grail]

Weavers turned soul to silk buddy

Seamstress-
Ahh ha! Truth, no doubt! In Pharloom, yours is a rare skill, prized beyond measure, to channel one's soul within a thread. Soul and Silk inseparably linked.
It is a skill almost lost from Pharloom. Those old Weavers shared it, but they're long dead now

[blissful harbor]

ik they did

they didn’t have that ability though, to like strike another bug and steal it’s life force

if they did running out of silk wouldn’t be an issue

[formal valley]

But i still think that they can produce A LOT OF silk to even create a village

[blissful harbor]

a product of her father no doubt, TK does the same shit

[dire lynx]

weavers can use their own soul and turn it to silk, but they cannot channel the soul of others for their own use

[formal valley]

I think they are the ones who created distant village tho

[graceful grail]

No lack of silk

[formal valley]

Like if you look other spider creatures cannot even produce silk, like the only creature we saw is the nosk

And it uses for hunting

Not building

[graceful grail]

Weavers cant channel soul, But Soul Master (a common bug) can??

[blissful harbor]

soul master studied, he used machines and shit to steal the life force from the city bugs

not really the same scenario

[graceful grail]

Groal the great can channel soul…

[blissful harbor]

it’s possible weavers could have that ability, but as it stands rn the common thread between TK and hornet stealing a bugs life force on hit is PK

[blissful harbor]

who tortured and used a shaman

like soul master?

[dire lynx]

also worth noting all of them are horridly deformed from the process

[graceful grail]

Your telling me this “thing” can channel soul, and WEAVERS cant??

Groal got his soul from citidell bugs…

[blissful harbor]

weavers can use soul, obviously
wym by channeling soul
i’m saying it’s unlikely they could hit a bug and steal it’s soul

[dire lynx]

im sure the weavers had nice easy access to all the snail shaman souls in the world

[blissful harbor]

are we reading chat

[formal valley]

I mean i think the weavers can steal soul or like learned produce some soul from somewhere

[blissful harbor]

there is soul in the air

it’s not hard to get

[formal valley]

Compeletly seperated from my other tehories

[formal valley]

Yes im trying to say that. But unn fan thinks that the primal life in the deepnest is created the distant village, not weavers

[graceful grail]

Groal stole the art from snail, he got the soul from pilgrims and citidell

[dire lynx]

the method of which is a shaman skill

[graceful grail]

Hung to dry

[formal valley]

It doesnt matter groal used something or not weavers are not that fool

They literally studied freaking LASERS

[graceful grail]

Weavers are def smart enough to channel soul

[dire lynx]

Aid us when our Silk has waned.

Aid us when our Silk has waned.

[formal valley]

And you are telling me that they are not studied infinite soul or silk

[dire lynx]

Aid us when our Silk has waned.

Aid us when our Silk has waned.

Aid us when our Silk has waned.

Aid us when our Silk has waned.

Aid us when our Silk has waned.

Aid us when our Silk has waned.

Aid us when our Silk has waned.

Aid us when our Silk has waned.

Aid us when our Silk has waned.

Aid us when our Silk has waned.

its in the game

[graceful grail]

Thats when they AGE

Also, weavers knew they were dying out.

[formal valley]

Maybe there was some time which they used so much silk and their body couldnt produce it fastly

So gms helped

[graceful grail]

Thats what that probably means.

[dire lynx]

they age thanks to a loss of soul, thats why widow (the only weaver who cant use silk) is still alive

[formal valley]

Like lack of silk is not automatically means their silk can be finished infinitely

[graceful grail]

Karmaletta has barely any soul left when you find her huh

[formal valley]

They just said like hey help we are in somee trouble about producing silk and higher being had merch over them

[dire lynx]

full mortal, vs pseudo-divine being

[formal valley]

Mercy**

[graceful grail]

Aid us when our silk has waned.

This probably means that the weavers knew there full blood species would die out because of there reproduction problem.

[formal valley]

Like waned ≠ finished for etenrity

Eternity#*

[dire lynx]

waned, because its depleted and now they have no magic (unless they want death)

so they use tech as a new crutch

[formal valley]

How do you know that?

Like just ONLY ONE quote

Can literally mean something too

[graceful grail]

Look, Weavers teaching hornets with new drip. Definitely lost all their magic

[formal valley]

"because its depleted" i dont see anywhere it says depleted

[formal valley]

So AFTER finding tech and fleeing from pharloom to the hallownest

AFTER ALL OF THEM

After losing all of their magic

They made LITERAL rollers of silk

[graceful grail]

Look, Weavers totally lost there magic.

[formal valley]

I see "decrease" too

[graceful grail]

I see fade away

[formal valley]

You are just understanding the meaning you want

[graceful grail]

Decline

[formal valley]

Like the only one quote is not proves anything

With a word like that

Also we can see them producing silk AFTER coming to hallownest

[graceful grail]

Lots of it

“There silk”

This probably means there species as 100% 1st gen weavers

[blazing venture]

I wonder if the weavers den was supposed to be a weavenest

[formal valley]

Probably i dunno

[blazing venture]

theres also silk spools at the hidden station

[dire lynx]

@sinful nimbus can you do this, i cant handle any more brainrot(all good if not)

[sinful nimbus]

I'm E33ing

[forest lynx]

do i have to censor hollow knight things in the skong lore

[craggy smelt]

Weavenest Herrah, maybe...?

actually, I kinda hope we find that in Pharloom somewhere...

[foggy fractal]

no you don't have to spoiler tag anything from both games

everything can be freely discussed here

[limpid summit]

Technically these are Hallownest weavers who left

They could have made this before that tablet chronologically

[twilit crest]

The tag in is crazy work 😭

[last idol]

||okay, how did my ass not notice that the hermits from bone bottom, bellhart and songclave were actually the snail shamans bruh, i missed the similarities 😭||

nvm lol

i'm a dumbass

[graceful grail]

I looked at the bellhermits staff on my first playthru and was like “that looks familiar”.

Then immediately forgot.

[gentle aspen]

huh?

[dreamy onyx]

is there any evidence for this?

i just assumed they aged because they were still mortal bugs

[dreamy onyx]

maybe it's in Pharloom Bay

something something area in which you can escape from Pharloom something

[last idol]

ok, this might just be the chapel maiden, the bell hermit and the caretaker
how did i literally just notice that

it's just them but naked

[craggy smelt]

you figured it out!

[last idol]

Yay! I got it!
(How did I not recognize them at first)

[dreamy onyx]

i think mossbag actually pointed out the chapel maid looked like a shaman

in 2019.

[craggy smelt]

I started to think the maid and hermit were snails when I noticed their needolin dialogue matched and talked about 'glistening trails' and 'spiraling outwards'

the caretaker when Hornet started proding him about disguising himself - the quest he gave clinched it all

[warped sentinel]

Same, I figured they were snail shamans because the ruined chapel has a lot of spiral imagery and the 3 having the same Needolin dialogue

Then of course Silk and Soul and the void being summoned was the final bit of confirmation

[edgy nebula]

thoughts on ccmaci’s new video?

[craggy smelt]

I just saw that! A fun watch - loved the voice acting

I need to watch it again, I think I disagreed with one point, but I forgor

[twilit crest]

I might be the only person on earth who was genuinely caught off guard by the snail shaman reveal

[edgy nebula]

i was too

it was so obvious idk why i didnt realize

[twilit crest]

Hornet was like "i know what you are old man" and i was like oh maybe hes evil

[dreamy onyx]

i was too dw

[craggy smelt]

ok, i forgor because it was pretty minor - ccmaci views the memory of WL in Red Memory as just a memory, and not the WL herself in any way
I'm less certain of that myself - in this world, the memory of a powerful god might, in some way, be the thing itself, or at least connected with it

because of magical god reasons

hence WL seems to change her tone and address Present Hornet directly, which the other memory moms don't do

anyway

it was a pleasant watch

[dreamy onyx]

i mean the other ones are also like... dead

[craggy smelt]

sure, but if they're all just memories, then that shouldn't make a difference

why would one memory start addressing her differently just because it's the memory of someone who is still alive in the waking world

[warped sentinel]

This is further supported by the White Lady being aware when dream nailed in the first game, directly acknowledging the fact the knight’s ability to access one’s mind makes it worthy of breaking the seals

The White Lady was probably able to commune with Hornet through her heightened awareness and weird pale powers, especially since it IS a memory the White Lady shares

[craggy smelt]

good point about the shared memory

here's the real head fucker - did WL go out of her way to share that memory with Hornet originally because, somehow, she knew Red Memory would eventually happen?

(I hope not because fuck time travel...)

[dire lynx]

also remember hornet was semi aware in godhome, probably due to her partial higher status

[craggy smelt]

yes

possibly Sheo and Sly as well to some degree, but Hornet seems to be more aware than them
(interestingly, all characters who still have 'worldly bodies', which might have something to do with it also)

[gentle aspen]

no?

why would that be the case at all

[craggy smelt]

Hollow Knight: Time Fucked

[dreamy onyx]

because it would be cool

-# in all honestly i doubt it, im not even sure how the everbloom originally appeared in the event

[limpid summit]

So true

“It’s a memory of WL acting as she would”

If Hornet can do it so can WL

[edgy nebula]

why do we think khann is on a mini throne instead of his main throne at the top of coral tower?

someone asked the question in sk discussion and it got me curious

[tacit crown]

I assume it was so he can more easily raise his army when the water flows back? atleast that's why I assume they have the entire chinese terracotta army around him, either that or some sort of ritualistic sacrifice or, or, where we are standing is the original throne room and it isn't at the very peak of the tower because the base is much lower, like in the blasted steps lower or something.

[twilit crest]

Do we know for fact if the Hk verse is to scale with actual bugs?

[tacit crown]

No.

[twilit crest]

That’s what I thought

Just wanted to check

[tacit crown]

the bugs aren't even in scale with themselves, it would be wrong to assume they are to scale with actual bugs

the decision is entirely up to your headcanon

[marble oasis]

the memory breaks when hornet stands up and sheds her wp clothing

[craggy smelt]

they're actually colossal in size

our entire world is in one of their backyards

[stray fog]

Idk if this is actually from tc's website though

[stray fog]

I still don't know if this can actually be considered the canonical size of bugs

[heavy gyro]

TC wrote "(life-size?)" in that post

So once again its ambiguous

But the image itself is a fan creation that TC featured

[stray fog]

Oh

[foggy fractal]

https://www.teamcherry.com.au/blog/hk-physical-late-anniversary-celebration-silksong-mini-update

it was from this blog specifically

is it a canon height? no

[craggy smelt]

I do like to believe
that the bugs
are very small

[twilit crest]

Is this to be taken seriously

[foggy fractal]

the argument?

no idea!

[twilit crest]

No the post

It seems jokey

Jocular

[foggy fractal]

no idea!

[twilit crest]

Let’s all jump team Cherry

[craggy smelt]

I wonder how small intelligent bugs can get
Quirrel found those little bugs in the wastes, but they are beasts

I wonder if intelligent bugs could be that small...?

(I hope so)

[edgy nebula]

too small for ari's brush size 💔

[shell magnet]

Nah they all got stepped on

[muted lantern]

the smallest bugs i think we will get are probably background bugs like the tiny skarr guys

[shell magnet]

Sly is pretty tiny

[robust wagon]

Ig

[craggy smelt]

oh nooo...

[sour lava]

|| hope hes alive later ||

[stray fog]

Do silkflies count?

They might be the life force of citadel robots

[shell magnet]

Needolin dialogue seems to suggest otherwise

[craggy smelt]

nah, they're made from other bugs

I want like a group of people - a tiny little village of adorable buggies

[sour lava]

when i got memorium note i tought hes ded

[stray fog]

Then sly might be the smallest sapient guy

[shell magnet]

Im pretty sure he's dead

[stray fog]

If a wyrm can choose any form upon "death", then would a wyrm be able to become the smallest sapient animal

[sour lava]

the poor wife or sister i forgot

[craggy smelt]

I say 'yes'

[shell magnet]

I think it's something along the lines of dog

[stray fog]

Horse

[shell magnet]

Or horse

[sour lava]

i see let us tame her then

[oak palm]

It's a dude btw

[sour lava]

my head canon 😭

yall ruined it

[shell magnet]

Wait zaza is a dude??

How did they confirm that

[edgy nebula]

referred to him with masculine pronouns in garmond's character reveal

[shell magnet]

Ah

[edgy nebula]

oh no hornet directly refers to them both as sirs

mb

[shell magnet]

Hornets assuming their gender

[muted lantern]

Zaza is so cute

[past cypress]

Are the small ants in Hunter:s March intelligent?

[craggy smelt]

ooo, good question

maybe a very tiny caste bred for scavenging, alongside the larger battle/guard forms

I would love to believe yes

[wintry compass]

hi guys

what do you think the chapels are?

are they a part of the citadel's religion? when do you think they were established?

especially the chapel of the wanderer, the beast and the reaper ig, since they seem to be created by pilgrims or such, while shaman and architect are somewhat explainable as to what they are

[muted lantern]

They are like religious tombs kind of

where dead figures of import are worshipped.

[livid trout]

is nyleth a higher being?

[muted lantern]

None of the hearts are

Nyleth is more likely something like isma from the first game

[wintry compass]

interesting

so the beast is an important figure

[muted lantern]

To someone, maybe not the citadels faith

[wintry compass]

yeah!

so are the chapels against the citadel's faith I wonder, and are they made by the same people given the similarities in design

[muted lantern]

I think beastfly is trying to reach the grave of its ancestor or something. at least its needolin dialogue implies

[muted lantern]

depends on the chapel, wanderer is clearly a grave of faithful pilgrims, and reapers served the moor which served the citadel, architects are servants of the citadel. But others seem to be other kinds of faith. The term chapel is used somewhat loosly as architects and witch are probably not places of actual worship. but the others i think were. some are citadel related others arent id say.

[wintry compass]

yeahh truee

[muted lantern]

...Not worthy... ...Alone, without you...
...Climb and serve... ...Die and serve...

[wintry compass]

ooohh

[muted lantern]

Wanderer chapel dialogue seems to imply that the grave at the center was a pilgrim that guided them

[wintry compass]

I think the reaper is more the people that lived before the citadel, when the moors grew their own food

I find the dialogue so wistful and I love it

[wintry compass]

interesting

[muted lantern]

"Praise their toil... Honour to the reapers... Sow and reap... Pharloom flourished... Gather... for the many..." You may be right, sow and reap definitely seem to reference farming rather than silk recycling. The reapers were probably the people who used to farm the land

[wintry compass]

yeah!

I think so

I love that dialogue so much actually

[dreamy onyx]

This just raises more questions for me lol

Since aside from the dialogue of Benjin and Crull, that's the only other reference to Greymoor being a farmland we get iirc

[muted lantern]

Doesnt sherma say something about it in pilgrims rest?

[winter turret]

I js beat lost lace, and why the hell is the knight in pharloom

[dreamy onyx]

I just checked and yeah, no clue how I missed that

[muted lantern]

assumedly the canon ending of the first game is either embrace the void or dream no more. both of which the knight becomes one with the void. Presumably once the everbloom faded and hornet was no longer protected. the knight detected hornet in the void and came running to help her through the void, which runs under the whole world, connecting both kingdoms

[dreamy onyx]

I guess he could mean the halfway home? But I also find it strange how he mentions that considering Pilby talks about trekking through moors

[muted lantern]

sorry I fixed some typos and clarified @winter turret

[winter turret]

Still there like super far from each other so how did he make it immediately after the everbloom welted

[muted lantern]

I imagine travelling through the void is very quick, with the void heart the knight unites the void under its will, making it so it could probably teleport instantly through the void, as the void is all basically part of it now

The knight basically is the void at this point

[winter turret]

Ohhh that makes sense actually

[muted lantern]

though it doesnt seem to be in control of the black thread that was just operating off instinct

the void naturally seeks out the soul of living bugs, i doubt tk did it intentionally. its more like an involuntary thing the void does

[winter turret]

Oh so like the void threads are independent from the rest of the void which is fully under tk's control

[wispy urchin]

the void is kinda homogenous

its weird

theres the liquid and then the creatures inside it

i wonder if the creatures spontaneously form and then decompose instantly back into the liquid

[muted lantern]

My best guess is that the void when not being directly focused on by the knights will seeks out and consumes soul instinctually. As in like the knight is the brain of the void but the void tendrils still attack things kinda like the voids digestive system, just involuntarily consuming.

[wispy urchin]

insatiable hunger ahh

[winter turret]

If what ur saying is basically that tk can control the void tendrils

[dreamy onyx]

There's also the void in the abyss that (theoretically) seals up the climb up to deep docks so it doesn't flood the abyss with lava

[winter turret]

Then why did he cut them in the cut seen

[wispy urchin]

dramatic reveal

no im fr

hes referred to as the shade lord cuz hes like

badass

yk