sk-lore

[muted lantern]

I doubt the flea pervert has access to advanced weaver tech

[strange hazel]

also i am INCREDIBLY confused how spying on people during bathing is lust type of stuff but literally having someone undress infront of you isnt, hollow knight is confusing

they are basically the same thing except one involves water.

[muted lantern]

Nudity isnt seen as sexual in hk world but creeps like kratt just enjoy violating other peoples privacy.

[strange hazel]

ah

also why doesnt the flea caravan take the phantom route?

i get theres muckroaches n all but

[muted lantern]

bilewater is hell

[strange hazel]

oh right

[muted lantern]

also taking a carraige through mud probably really sucks

[strange hazel]

how do they get through blasted steps though..

[muted lantern]

Probably through a route we don't see, since its a 3d world we just experience it in 2d

[strange hazel]

why dont they go AROUND bilewater then

[muted lantern]

blasted steps are outside so theres more paths, also they might not know the bilewater route at all because its through a fake wall in sinners road

[marble oasis]

https://www.tumblr.com/mebis-silksong-corner/801502355712557056/some-lore-of-every-tool-flea-brew-and-egg-of

MEBI's silksong corner

Some lore of every tool: Flea Brew and Egg of Flealia

Are you Team Soup or Team Beer?

I really prefer to think of it as a nourishing soup but between the bubbles, the animation being the same as the nectar shot, and the shape clearly referencing a gourd bottle (as I've pointed out before) I can't deny there's a strong argument for it being an alcoholic drink...

Tumblr · Nov 28, 2025, 11:23 PM

[strange hazel]

wait theres a bilewater route

route

[marble oasis]

wrong reply i meant this one

[strange hazel]

i didnt even know it existed XD

i was guessing they could go around bilewater by some other shortcut

[marble oasis]

yeah that’s how i got there

[strange hazel]

ANYWAY

[muted lantern]

To me it just makes more sense that its a caffinated soda since it makes you faster not slower. plus they give it to the young fleas

[marble oasis]

i thought the sinners road wall was one way for the longest time

[marble oasis]

they used to give kids ale and wine

watered down but still

[strange hazel]

Remember! reality is an illusion! the universe is a hologram! buy gold! bye!

[muted lantern]

The speed thing still gets me, i don't think alchohol typicaly makes someone faster

we know its not just hornet being immune to getting drunk as the fleas also get faster

[marble oasis]

i agree but the animation is the same as the nectar and the bottle is a gourd

and it’s bubbly

[muted lantern]

Could just be carbonated

[cunning carbon]

How intelligent is Zaza. Yeah they sing but everything sings to the needolin, even animals.
Can Zaza file for taxes or are they legally a pet

[edgy nebula]

silksong's nectar is so weird

stand-in for milk AND alcohol in the silksong universe

[cunning carbon]

That's how I was raised, and I turned out fine. I can even count to 7

[stray fog]

It (somewhat) makes sense because alcohol is an organic compound

[edgy nebula]

i suppose creige's nectar could just have alcohol added to it

[muted lantern]

Zaza is probably the intelligence of a horse. I've heard people say that the line saying zaza is smarter than garmond in some pre release character descriptions is just saying garmond is dumber than his steed.

[stray fog]

Because don quixote

Idk

[edgy nebula]

i dont think garmond's even all that stupid in the main game, he's just wildly optimistic

maybe zaza is jimmy neutron levels of genius

[cunning carbon]

A funny joke, but I can't believe Garmond is dumb. He was a valiant hero with a heart of gold... And my eyes are watering again

[strange hazel]

hi im back

[marble oasis]

how would it get carbonated without fermentation

[marble oasis]

it’s fermented milk like kumis

[stray fog]

Have pharloom bugs figured out Henry's law

[muted lantern]

Mooshkas got one of those sodastream machines in his carraige

[marble oasis]

probably not they went all into mechanical engineering instead of chemistry

[stray fog]

These mfs have teleportation, but no wifi

How do they live without italian brainrot

🙏

[edgy nebula]

lace would go insane if she was ever introduced to 67 or tung tung tung sahur

[marble oasis]

if the cogwork core was allowed to go on long enough it would probably start producing ai slop

[stray fog]

Silkfly generated content

[marble oasis]

“GET ME OUT OF THIS FUCKING ROBOT!!!!!”

[muted lantern]

how many silkflies would it take to run doom

[stray fog]

One can run an entire robot, so probably only one silkfly for doom

[strange hazel]

fun fact: lace is canonically hornet's aunt

[stray fog]

Yep

Technically

[strange hazel]

also im confused on trobbio

why does he say "TROBBIOO!" out loud if hes not actually saying trobbio

[muted lantern]

He is saying trobbio

just like shakra says poshanka

[strange hazel]

confuses me

because then that mean when hornet says "POSHANKA!" shes saying poshanka

[muted lantern]

poshanka is a nonsense word and trobbios just a freak that uses his name like hes a pokemon

[marble oasis]

yes

[edgy nebula]

both watcher at the edge and khann also say karak

[strange hazel]

so that means thats hornet actively says "GARAMA" out loud as a taunt

which confuses me

[stray fog]

And sherma says the same lyrics, but they mean like 5 different things at different instances

[marble oasis]

Poshanka is a word in Shakra’s language, like Dondakku and Yakkanesh

[strange hazel]

oh...

[marble oasis]

Okklu-Din

[strange hazel]

ok nevermind that

[marble oasis]

Gara Takana!

[stray fog]

What is happening in hk lore😭

[strange hazel]

but does that mean trobbio's pronounciation coincides with english

[strange hazel]

alot.

[stray fog]

They're doing radiance roleplay

[marble oasis]

Shermese is a tonal language, the same syllable can have many different meanings based on your inflection and context

[strange hazel]

i did a GMS as a one-off joke but WHAT.

[marble oasis]

Every day I log on here and assume the character of zor

It gets tiring sometimes

Who am I under the mask

[strange hazel]

every now and then i make a GMS thing

[edgy nebula]

mods... kill this roleplaying scum..!

[stray fog]

This is lowkey funny

[muted lantern]

without zor you are just inus

[strange hazel]

SIGHH

)haunts you)

[marble oasis]

Fool that you are, for all conscious identity is merely a role we adopt

[stray fog]

Yes pale monarch, whatever you say

[strange hazel]

i have been sentenced eternally here

[covert night]

why is there a corpse of a penitent near a weaver effigy in the slab

[muted lantern]

The pilgrims worshipped the weavers

[stray fog]

The penitents look like cats

[covert night]

oh wait i confused weaver effigys with rune harps

true

[edgy nebula]

why was he aurafarming beside the window is the question

[covert night]

he found a 10/10 bleed out spot

[strange hazel]

okay im going to do the daily silksong lore fact now

uh

[vagrant spade]

he wanted a badass looking death

[prime mantle]

its just below the slab, he couldve escaped

[stray fog]

They don't even put in any effort now 🙏

No "free money" or anything

Just a random link

And bro didn't even make it a hyperlink

[ionic basalt]

How it feels

||Sorry for going off topic mods||

[stray fog]

Lmao

[graceful grail]

Were white ladys roots rly throughout the white palace this big?? Or is it just hornet

[stray fog]

They probably were big

I don't think this one is hornet misremembering something

[graceful grail]

Oohh

[stray fog]

A potential explanation for this size is that hornet went to the palace after all the vessels were born

[dire lynx]

they may have been caused by her presence, there are pale roots all over the white palace

[graceful grail]

The present roots in white palace dont seem to glow, perhaps thats because she is disconnected from them.

[cunning carbon]

Why did the pale king call it the white palace and not the ethnicity diverse palace? Is he racist?

[marble oasis]

One of his five closest Knights is literally an immigrant

*At least

[smoky ferry]

hello

[hidden crater]

All pale beings are racist

[teal sinew]

i wonder if pale beings have a source of origin

We know that the "pale-ness" is not necessarily biologically inherited since the delicate flower exists

is there a point of origin that spawns all these kinds of pale variants? just like how void consumes other species

how is a wyrm or gms or white lady "born"

also if two pale beings have a child it is not a pale being, as we know from the vessels

[stray fog]

The vessels are pale beings

[stray fog]

Here's a headcanon / speculation about this

[teal sinew]

they are??

[random harbor]

Tiso - Dirtmouth - Listening next to the well

Pale thing. You wear that nail with ease. If you're in search of combat, you'll find no great warriors in this decaying burrow.
I've heard an arena exists somewhere below. One built for our like. Meet me there and we'll test what skills you possess.
I'll be heading down soon. Come and find me if you dare.

@dhruv._19 used /npcs wanderers name: Tiso category: Dirtmouth dialogue: Listening next to the well

[teal sinew]

my headcanon is that the everbloom is the unintended byproduct created by the source of pale beings

yk how there are myths about a god dripping blood and life springing from that very spot

that kind of thing

[whole holly]

Kingdom's Edge does gave unique flora after Pale Being shed it's form

[teal sinew]

isnt that just dandruffs of his dying body

[whole holly]

i mean Pale Fern and unique growths

[teal sinew]

oh i guess

[fresh badger]

Ehhhhh I assume Pale Being is more than just being visibly described as pale like Tiso says

[whole holly]

pale thing, and pale bug is intentional naming, it is used to separate them from pale higher beings

but i want to ask

do we think all Wyrms are Higher Beings?
since they are only stated to be powerful ancient beings, with Foresight
if they all are Higher Beings, fact that they died out collectively makes no sense
clearly Pale Wyrm is just special wyrm, most wyrms are ancient beings not much else
like Palestag is a exception of Cloverstags and is stag touched pale, and Pale King could have been exception of wyrms and have been Pale Higher Being Wyrm

[fresh badger]

[whole holly]

fair

[stray fog]

I think they'd all be higher beings

They have a beacon, foresight, and the ability to transform

Pretty op

[whole holly]

i mean, they would be stated as such and they died out

[whole holly]

isn't beacon exclusive to pale king? unlike foresight and metamorphosis

[stray fog]

It could just be that the wyrms were born so long ago that they are all dead by the time of hk

[stray fog]

How do we know that?

Mm says that wyrms pull bugs into their thrall

Thats kinda beacon like

[whole holly]

yeah sure but higher beings don't die from age

[stray fog]

Not from age
Im saying that their birth being very ancient would provide enough time for them to be killed

[whole holly]

that's just pulling them into servitude, Pale King is only one we know of that gives them minds

[whole holly]

Higher Beings can only really be erased and killed by Void

[stray fog]

Why would expanding minds be unique to pk though? Paleness is not related to mind expansion

[stray fog]

Hornet killed gms by absorbing her in the base ending

[whole holly]

1. why not 2. beacon isn't exclusive to pale being status but possibly higher being status

[whole holly]

that is special case, that's usurping a pale being by yet another Pale bug

[stray fog]

I mean we don't have enough data on deaths of higher beings to determine whether void is the only thing that kills them

[whole holly]

fact it that we can't confidently attribute beacon to all of the wyrms

[whole holly]

but when higher beings die we know it is special case of some sorts, maybe extinction event occurred or they just have long lifespan

but they are Ancient Beings, are they as Ancient as AC?

[stray fog]

No idea

[rapid bloom]

The thing is that the Pale Beings are entities closely related to Soul
Higher beings too have power over the smaller castes of bugs, to the point where they get enthralled by them
Look at Nyleth for example, she created Shellwood and most of the plant life there, so she certainly had control over them, and most likely expanded their minds. Karmelita wouldn't be a good example but imma add her for my sake
The Pale King, due to being both a Wyrm and a Pale being had more power than most of the entities we heard of so far. His "beacon" and presence were so radiant that it made the moths pledge their allegiance to him.
What I am trying to say is that expanding minds is not a trait reserved only to the Pale King alone, as we do know that other entities, even Wyrms, had the same ability

[dire lynx]

nyleth isnt higher

the only higher being in silksong is gms

[whole holly]

we don't know that, beacon was unique to him as far as we know

higher beings are vaguely defined, only higher beings we know are confirmed is radiance, pale king, gms, and white lady

rest are just widespread theories

[stray fog]

Wouldn't a beacon fit more with a wyrm's kingdom making skills, rather than a pale being's soul related skills

[whole holly]

it would fit higher being skills, we don't know that all wyrms have it to be honest, also Pale Being's skills are more vague and less uniform than you imply

i think Wyrms may be just tyrants and/or rulers like Khann, Pale King, i know Khann is not a wyrm but i think they might be similar with tendencies

[gentle aspen]

Karm isn’t a higher being

and the pale king wasn’t a tyrant

[limpid summit]

In this house Pale King was a hero

[ionic basalt]

Are the old hearts just some people with strong will and d e t e r m i n a t i o n

[frosty gate]

Who the fuck is slandering the Pale GOAT?

[gentle aspen]

Gear 5 Luffy

[frosty gate]

He saved my kitten from a fire!!!!

[gentle aspen]

No, they’re individuals who have immense magical prowess which is tied to the lands they rule over

Said power is in their hearts and is able to be passed down

[dire lynx]

mid piss mentioned?

[frosty gate]

Its always a One Piece mention when Nika is on the chat

[limpid summit]

Goofy the goat

[dire lynx]

why

[frosty gate]

Nika is a name from One Piece

[dire lynx]

it is? i know it from greek mythology

[frosty gate]

Isn't that Nike?

[frosty gate]

We are unsure if passing it down has to be willing or if it just a thing that happens!! Just to add that little bit

[gentle aspen]

[frosty gate]

Mithrifer writing the new Bible hol up

The intrigue is killing me

[prime mantle]

ethical heart gathering standards:

do they want to die?

khann: no (waiting for water)
nyleth: no (set up a guard until the end of time)
karmelita: yes
green prince: yes

what is the consequence of their death?

khann: none (sands of karak are already dry, though he might be able to revitalize it if he is alive and water comes)
nyleth: shellwood dies (devastating, shellwood is already uniquely vulnerable to devilish beings like greyroot, sister splinter and widow)
karmelita: far fields die (skarr tribe is wiped out)
green prince: actively positive (verdania begins to recover)

do they deserve to live?

khann: no (conqueror, created a martial society based on power, albeit he might be able to revitalize karak should water come)
nyleth: yes (provided sanctuary and safe passage to pilgrim, keeps shellwood alive)
karmelita: maybe (she keeps far fields alive, although her tribe is vicious and also martial, hunting on pilgrims)
green prince: no (abandoned verdania, killing him heals it)

murder order:

1. green prince
2. khann
3. karmelita

as always, shellwood patriots are right. save nyleth forever. all for the pollen heart

[limpid summit]

Ooh

A little flower grows out of the fountain after you kill Nyleth

I don’t think Shellwood dies for sure

[rapid bloom]

He never was

[prime mantle]

that's where you rip the heart out of

[limpid summit]

But I would say the most just is to keep Khann alive

[rapid bloom]

I think people misunderstood my statements

Eh, I don't mind

It's lore and it is debatable

[frosty gate]

I think that would be the new heart

[rapid bloom]

The truth is always in between

[gentle aspen]

you don’t really get to decide whether folks “deserve to live”
also saying that green prince abandoned verdania is like????

“Her tribe is martial and hunts pilgrims so maybe she deserves to die”
????

Genuinely awful takes never go into ethics gng

[limpid summit]

Green Prince did abandon verdania bro

[frosty gate]

https://tenor.com/view/anaxa-anaxagoras-honkai-star-rail-hsr-true-gif-12058539248065280875

[limpid summit]

He’s a sad sack

[prime mantle]

hornet has to decide who lives

[gentle aspen]

Well you’d be wrong

[frosty gate]

Green Prince did abandon Verdania

[limpid summit]

It is a dihfficult thing to explain simply

He makes a point to say so

[prime mantle]

green prince's boyfriend got captured and he decided wandering around and getting caged was a better idea than trying to salvage what's left of his land. he literally laments this before his fight and gets pissed when hornet tells him it wouldve fallen anyway

[limpid summit]

So long, I dared not visit… Even as our lands fell to thread and ruin… Instead I wasted, a coward caged, too weak to witness his grace bound in parody so cruel.

[prime mantle]

hes a BUM

[limpid summit]

Are dudes really saying this is top 5 Silksong NPCs

[frosty gate]

He is cool, even if a bum

[gentle aspen]

he was imprisoned gng

[limpid summit]

I love his design

Old heart can’t break a simple lock

[frosty gate]

He left Verdania and then he got caged, didn't even fight his way out

[frosty gate]

Inside a rusty cage

[gentle aspen]

that doesn’t mean he abandoned them bruh his lands were dying out and his lover was turned into a mechanical monstrosity

[limpid summit]

He abandoned them

[frosty gate]

"Again... to see... this land abandoned... betrayed..."

[limpid summit]

He sat caged instead of even going to destroy the Dancers or preserve his land alone

He felt as if he couldn’t take the mantle by himself

[frosty gate]

Like I'm not saying he could've saved Verdania

[limpid summit]

Which is fair to say if you ruled side by side with your beloved

[frosty gate]

But he could've tried

[prime mantle]

shellwood deniers doing mental gymnastics to defend bum prince... tragixxx like the cogwork dancers

[limpid summit]

But yes he didn’t do anything

Deleted my slander 💔

[gentle aspen]

destroying the dancers wouldn’t have done anything and “preserve the land alone” the citadel fucked it up man

[prime mantle]

he admits to abandoning it himself its not even hornet accusing him or anything. she actually comforts him on it (badly)

[frosty gate]

"Stop being a sad fuck, your lands would've fallen anyway"

[limpid summit]

You… So, it is done… My wish granted before ever I arrived…

Son 💔

[frosty gate]

His literal wish 😭

He is literally written as a coward

[frosty gate]

He was on his way to kill him

[limpid summit]

Groal was victimized as well his people literally lived in shit and mud and he at least resolved to hate the Citadel

[frosty gate]

Only to find that Hornet won first

[limpid summit]

Not that he’s not an awful dude

[frosty gate]

Groat the GOAT

[prime mantle]

poor groat

i wonder if bilewater did have a heart at some point. its huge

[gentle aspen]

y’all be victim blaming like crazy

[frosty gate]

Absolutely not! I actually like him a lot

[prime mantle]

i mean id stab the demon worshiper too tbh

idk if id eat his soul juice tho

[frosty gate]

The Victim literally blames himself dude like 😭

[limpid summit]

People respond differently to grief I’m not saying he deserves to die or should have done something specific

[frosty gate]

I feel for the dude and I like him but he did leave Verdania to die

[limpid summit]

But he himself is like this wasn’t the right thing to do

[gentle aspen]

😐

[limpid summit]

No. I shall depart shortly. With my way clear, my wish again propels me, though I tried to avoid it.

[prime mantle]

when you gotta save one person out of four you gotta save one person out of four

[limpid summit]

Fierce and fast, and defending their lands even from birth. These are children to be proud of.

Green Prince can scrap hard as hell

[prime mantle]

this makes him rlly ironic. i do wonder about the other prince though, he must have been dope to face the citadel like that

[limpid summit]

The Clover Dancers bossfight probably isn’t him at full power either

[prime mantle]

his death caused the crashout which is reasonable. ill give gp his due

[limpid summit]

They’re keeping up the regal nature by dancing

His story is poignant and sad

[prime mantle]

but it's still not good to leave for milk 😔

does anyone know why his death even heals verdania

if it wasnt for that he'd prolly be... maybe nr 2

it's the opposite of karmelita, whose death will kill far fields

[limpid summit]

No

It’s the opposite of what Hornet says will happen to Karm

Yeah

[prime mantle]

maybe it had something to do with there being two of them reunited in death

that'd be romantic id like that

like the last act of love restoring verdania

and redeeming gp

no textual evidence for this besides them hugging covered in clovers but it's what i'll think from now on

[frosty gate]

All the Hearts behave differently really

[fading shard]

unn is literally confirmed?

did you forget Unn being part of the sequence in pantheon 5 where the god seeker talks about actual gods

Given that they talk about the pale king, white lady and then the radiance who are all proper gods

the fact unn get's included just confirms they are also one

[pliant meadow]

Grimm is defo one bc of hype moments and aura

[fading shard]

Grimm isn't a higher being the nightmare heart is

given that it''s quite literally the scarlet heart

and the "deepest power of the nightmare realm"

[pliant meadow]

What about nkg then

[frosty gate]

Also no, only NMH

[fading shard]

Saying that the nightmare heart isn't a higher being and that it's just a theoy is strange nika

[pliant meadow]

Is that the right reply? This is a different kind of heart

[fading shard]

While I get nobody in game calls them a god

it's comparable to the radiance

hell their both contrasts to one another

[frosty gate]

it wasn't

[fading shard]

given that the nightmare and dream realm were said to be one realm

[pliant meadow]

Then how is it related?

[fading shard]

before they both split off from one another

The radiance being the god of light and the ruler of the dream realm

and the nightmare heart of that of the nightmare realm

[pliant meadow]

Well her being the ruler is kinda disputed

[fading shard]

hell the white lady and presumably the pale king knew of the nightmare heart

[frosty gate]

Only nighmare heart is the higher being

[fading shard]

?

[frosty gate]

by who

[pliant meadow]

I get that but how is that related to the old hearts of Pharloom

[frosty gate]

i didnt mean to reply to that

[pliant meadow]

When is she described as the ruler of the dream realm?

[pliant meadow]

So it was the wrong reply lol

[limpid summit]

Probably isn’t

Heart iconography is common as like someone being the core of their land or group

[frosty gate]

You asked if it was the right reply and I said it wasn't

[pliant meadow]

I may be dyslexic

Im not but that was dumb sorry lol

[frosty gate]

np

[fading shard]

it isn't related to pharlooms hearts?

Why do you think that

One is the ruler of the nightmare realm

[pliant meadow]

He replied to the wrong message

[fading shard]

while the other are just a bunch of powerful mortals

[frosty gate]

Being described as a Higher Being kinda crowns her as one

[fading shard]

she literally has control over the dream realm like nobody else has

[frosty gate]

There's no competition about there being another Dream Realm entity beyond Rad

[fading shard]

besides she's a dream realm only being

[pliant meadow]

Well she does have a physical statue

[fading shard]

That has nothing to do with her being non corporeal

[limpid summit]

Why doesn’t Gurr respond to the Needolin at all

Is he just locked in

[edgy nebula]

hornet’s too geeked to stop him

[frosty gate]

He isn't Haunted

[gentle aspen]

being the strongest dream entity doesn’t mean she’s the ruler of the realm

[limpid summit]

But some dudes just do it for the love of the game

Like Crawfather

And some have needolin dialogue but don’t stop like Watcher

[limpid summit]

Yeah

[frosty gate]

Watcher also wasn't Haunted

[frosty gate]

I can't remember if this guy was Haunted or not ngl

Craws are so weird

[whole holly]

where, where is it outright confirmed?

[whole holly]

they likely are, but it isn't outright state, that's a technicality, really

[frosty gate]

The moment the Godsimper decided to be a creep and watch her sleep

[fading shard]

you realize I say where it's confirmed like right below the message you replied to right

[fading shard]

like it's directly below the message you replied to

[whole holly]

yeah but she is called a god, not a higher being, it is technicality, i know she is higher being

she just isn't outright called one

[frosty gate]

Godseeker only talks to Higher Beings between Arenas

[whole holly]

i hope everyone gets what i am saying

[fading shard]

higher beings and gods are the same

[fading shard]

no because higher beings and gods are inter changable

[frosty gate]

Gruz Mother

[blissful harbor]

not really, gods in universe are things with godly resonance
things godseeker can attune to
HBs are gods the way we think of them

[fading shard]

oh please the god seeker is looking for a god

[whole holly]

true, that is implication, i believe she is, but it is not outright stated

[whole holly]

true, because Father of the Flame is a god but not higher being

[stray fog]

What about the nightmare heart? Is it ever explicitly called a higher being

[blissful harbor]

no, but like no chance it isn’t

[whole holly]

i am pretty sure not, but it almost absolutely is one

[stray fog]

Yep

[blissful harbor]

the only things explicitly called Hbs are Rad, PK, Wl, and GMS

[limpid summit]

Unn NMH and Void Heart TK are undeniably HBs

Like all but confirmed

[whole holly]

yea that's what i said but invited controversy for some reason

[fading shard]

Unn literally being in the same room as the PALE KING and white lady confirms their also a higher being man

[blissful harbor]

they are HBs too yes

[stray fog]

How likely is the weaver queen to be a higher being?

[blissful harbor]

but those are the only ones who have been called as such in or out of game

[whole holly]

they are strongly implied to be yes, we know they are, they are just not directly confirmed

[limpid summit]

Probably

[stray fog]

She absorbed gms, so she gotta be higher

[edgy nebula]

pretty likely

[blissful harbor]

that doesn’t mean they are the only ones

[fading shard]

Hornet a already demi god binded a complete higher being

[stray fog]

Exactly

[limpid summit]

The only time a higher being is called a higher being in game is GMS

[blissful harbor]

the only true confirmed HB

[whole holly]

nobody is saying she is not one, but that is not direct statement/confirmation, we know she is Higher Being

[fading shard]

I agree with the nightmare heart but come on Unn is directly confirmed

[whole holly]

Pale King, Radiance and White Lady are directly stated

[fading shard]

how is it not?

[limpid summit]

In an AMA

[whole holly]

still true though

[limpid summit]

Yes

[whole holly]

it is not directly stated, but we don't need that to know she is one, also why are you fighting on this?

[fading shard]

When you say direct statement and confirmation do you mean she has to be directly called a higher being

[limpid summit]

There’s no point in arguing over this though

[whole holly]

that's what me and everyone else was saying from beginning

[stray fog]

You're both agreeing, but still debating

[limpid summit]

She’s a HB for all intents and purposes

[whole holly]

i swear, how does that even happen, why is everyone fighting me on semantics, it doesn't even matter

[gentle aspen]

You’re the one who’s making it a semantic argument

[whole holly]

it was not semantic argument, just fun fact, originally

but i am guessing it is not fun for everyone

[stray fog]

We should lowkey be able to make polls in the lore channels

For lore discussions

[whole holly]

idk man,i am not sure

how do we feel about Cursed Ending, can that potentially result in a Pale Being or something adjacent?

[frosty gate]

Most definitely

[frosty gate]

Honestly that'd be nice

Until it becomes a mess

[fading shard]

I personally believe it's going to be some sort of abomination

[whole holly]

it will

[fading shard]

By technicality a pale being

[whole holly]

yeah, no argument there

[fading shard]

but one that barely holds that title

a unatural mess

because given what we know about greyroot and that repeated cycle of theirs

and the fact that they're really the only potential example of a mortal turned higher being

[stray fog]

It will make a really strong creature

Hornet + gms + greyroot is an insane combo

[whole holly]

true, i agree

i want more speculative answer

i welcome it

[heavy gyro]

The dlc is gonna introduce time travel and that the greyroot after the ending is actually WL

Trust me

[stray fog]

Bro really gave him a speculative answer

[stray fog]

It will be biologically similar to greyroot, but with abilities like gms and hornet

[whole holly]

yeah, we kinda know that

[stray fog]

I can't think of anything cool rn

[whole holly]

that's widespread hypothesis, one i personally am resonant to

[whole holly]

question is, will haunting exist? what is going to happen after that and so on

[frosty gate]

I think it will be similar to the Void Thendrils but more lethal

[stray fog]

It depends on whether gms's nature overpowers the parasite like it did to hornet

[fading shard]

I wonder how strong it'd be

Would it be on the level of the Pale king and the radiance, or would it be something that would even be a threat to the steel masters themselves

[frosty gate]

It will literally sap the soul out of all the haunted bugs

[whole holly]

i kinda head cannon Pale Parasite lovecraftian monster

[frosty gate]

I like that idea ngl

[whole holly]

i kinda think that thematically Greyroot was opposite of Nyleth, like direct antagonistic in nature : meaning they are opposite in their behaviour and nature

[fading shard]

yk it is funny that silksong had to outright say that the four hearts are but power mortals

Because one could be fooled with some of them

[whole holly]

that's just my speculation on their thematic roles in Pharloom

[fading shard]

I don't disagree with you

[whole holly]

Nyleth being Ancient Seed and Powerful Mortal, and fact that everything suggests that Old hearts are cycle and they are last successors, even though Nyleth is ancient seed, leaves some questions

[whole holly]

i really resonate with this

[edgy nebula]

gp did NAAAWT want to die 😭

[frosty gate]

Big misunderstanding here, Nyleth is not the seed

Nyleth is the Ancient Heart of Shellwood

[whole holly]

yeah, i mixed it up, she is also called seed that sprung the shellwood

[edgy nebula]

"Here we honour the seed that sprung the wood.
By her grace may all bugs pass safe to join us and our song."

[whole holly]

but Fayforn being called fell heart of the frost, and Nyleth being called Ancient heart of Shellwood, is kinda similar

[frosty gate]

"find the one who sowed the first seed."

Maybe my english is Rusty

But that means she sowed the seed

[whole holly]

that's metaphorical it could refer to her propagating, reproducing, i don't think it is direct, since she is plant being herself and shellwood is extension of her

[fading shard]

here's a question for ya

where would you all place the higher beings at

power wise

no judgement

just personal beliefs

[whole holly]

i actually made chart about it

[fading shard]

like a 1. 2. 3. 4. type of thing

[whole holly]

but it is in no direct rule

[whole holly]

no, list of categories in no particular order

[fading shard]

I more so meant in a direct order

of strongest to weakest

[whole holly]

this is list:
Bug: Regular bug
Beast: Non-sentient bug (excluding titles)
God: Beast/Bug of great strength/ability, not limited to Higher Beings (Father of the Flame)
Ascended/Empowered Bugs: Lesser Beings with powers like those of Higher Beings(Mothkin, Weavers).
Last Succesors and Powerful Mortals: Beings that shape environment around them or accomplish something unfeasible (Nyleth, Khann, Karmelita, Monomon, Vespa, Isma, Moss Druid )
Ancient Beings : bugs with long lifespan (Bardoon, Fayforn, AC Bugs and Wyrms)
Semi-Higher Being: Beings with powers directly gained from Higher Beings, through heritage(Hornet,Vessels)
Higher Beings: Gods as humans would define them , Beings with abilities of scale that puts them above other bugs
Mr. Mushroom: A Team Cherry character, separate from the world of Hollow Knight. He doesn't fit the criteria for all other categories.
Also note that this is not exact order and sometimes titles on characters can overlap

[frosty gate]

I think the lands where the Shellwood stand could've been something before, but I got little proof about it

Nyleth had to be normal at some point

Like Isma

[whole holly]

but Diamond really made original version, i kinda overhauled this, this is in no exact order

[whole holly]

Nyleth is not really a bug, but Isma might have been, honestly who even knows

[fading shard]

because personally I'd say

1. the pale king
2. the radiance
3. the nightmare heart
4. gms
5. white lady
6. unn

??? gods of thunder and rain

[frosty gate]

Didn't say she was a Bug

I said normal

[whole holly]

what does normal imply, in world full of bugs?

[fading shard]

I mean yeah higher beings are divine

[fading shard]

born of actual godhood

of the type most think of

[frosty gate]

Not attached to a wall of plants

[unkempt turret]

How does killing the green prince revive verdania

[whole holly]

i mostly agree with it, but i don't think power gaps are significant

[frosty gate]

https://tenor.com/view/final-fantasy-vii-remake-cloud-strife-tifa-lockhart-aerith-gainsborough-cloti-gif-27060423

[whole holly]

who knows, if she was a walking seed, or sowed first seed

[frosty gate]

I think its the former, but little way to prove it. Her NDD is weird too

[fading shard]

I'd say they are somewhat significant given what we know of all of these goobers

[frosty gate]

If you have killed him, go check Verdania

Or i could just tell you

[fading shard]

some are drastically stronger then another

[frosty gate]

But it ruins the dramatic effect

[fading shard]

At least when it comes to the white lady and unn

Both of them are seemingly drastically weaker then the pale king, radiance, nmh, gms

[unkempt turret]

Nothings there

[frosty gate]

The Hell you mean nothing's there, send me a pic

[whole holly]

It varies but sure

[fading shard]

elaborate

:>

[whole holly]

Power gap varies between Higher Beings themselves

[frosty gate]

There should be something there

[whole holly]

I am eating dinner so can’t be active for minute

[whole holly]

Depends on version, they might need to update it

[frosty gate]

Oh right

[frosty gate]

Here you go

[unkempt turret]

Oh okay thx, i somehow missed this detail

[frosty gate]

You are welcome. The detail was added in a beta a while after the game came out, so it's no wonder you mised it

[prime mantle]

no yaoi, rot
yaoi, flourish

makes sense!

bilewater conversion therapy theory

[frosty gate]

Moral of the story: Kill your gays

[prime mantle]

i dont think he was having a good time chat

for reals though, as he dies he says "to dance, and rule, and die together" (abbrv), so he prolly did

[frosty gate]

As someone once said in this channel

"If you didn't do it, he was probably going to do it himself anyway, so you just accelerated the process"

[prime mantle]

kinda same for karmelita, she was really old and weak

i think it's possible that hearts/power of hearts can transfer from generation to generation but there is no way to say for certain that the person who received the heart/power of heart would create or preserve the ecosystem of the previous heart

like the only person who can get karmelita's heart assuming hornet has no involvement is like

gurr

i don't think gurr is gonna stay in far fields and be a king with that power tbh

he'll just travel. maybe meet with the hunter and have yaoi. who knows

[shy warren]

"have yaoi"

[prime mantle]

indeed....

[frosty gate]

Nah, Gurr don't have it in him

[prime mantle]

hes my goat just because his fight is really easy doesn't mean he don't got that lore power in him.... he's literally fluffy and cute.....

[shy warren]

He's not fluffy he wears dead animal fur

[prime mantle]

which makes him fluffy. he doesn't let his no-natural-fluff disadvantage get to him. a true inspiration

[frosty gate]

It's just the way he "fights" is clearly not good to actually have a Fight

Karmel would fold him

[shy warren]

No because if he used flintslate and fleabrew he'd win

(yes I'm aware they don't use tools like hornet does)

[prime mantle]

i mean he does use tools. he's the tool boss i think he could potentially do that. though he'd need to start using pins or needles

limiting yourself to the stone age tends to hurt your combat capability. unless you're karmelita

[prime mantle]

karmel was born to rule my boy is trying his best as an outcast

at least second sentinel tier...

[lime osprey]

The hearts of those beings act as an involuntary musical ritual which invokes and propagates dream space and essence through rhythmic percussion which radiates into the corporeal world, affecting the floral growth of the area. It could be the individual strength of these individuals which causes a bug’s heart to become this way, however seeing as the only bugs which have these hearts are sovereigns of some kind, it’s likely due to the devotion and obedience of the bugs under their rulership which causes this

[prime mantle]

i can definitely see the logic in this

but at the same time the fact that the hearts can be extracted and used in various spells as power sources seems to indicate that they can be transfered

it's why i said hearts/power of hearts

[frosty gate]

I don't think you literally transfer the heart

But the Power is transferred

To the heart of the bearer

[prime mantle]

but yeah, i don't think khann, nyleth, karmelita or GP have reasonable "heirs" so to speak. that's probably why nyleth and khann's hearts are intact even though they've completely gone dormant

[frosty gate]

In Hornet's case is special because murder is funny

[lime osprey]

The raw ritual potential of these fetishes can be repurposed but to replicate the affect it has on the environment would probably more difficult and not something a common bug can achieve

[edgy nebula]

khann has karakas and watcher at the edge tbf

[lime osprey]

Also, it’s possible that the heart needs to be extracted with the specific ritual Hornet is taught

[frosty gate]

I don't think it has to do with Heirs but with the land

[lime osprey]

And not literally just gouging them out of their chest

[edgy nebula]

the hearts are metaphorical turned physical

[prime mantle]

i'm unsure. i'd say the power to affect the environment could be gained if these hearts were somehow consumed, but the environment itself is likely shaped by the person themself

[edgy nebula]

that's why gp isnt torn in half and his heart is on the floor

[frosty gate]

Nyleth defo didn't have a heir, but I don't think she needed one either

And Khann could've had an heir, but the land was dead/dying

[lime osprey]

Khann is alive just dormant. Nyleth’s Will is mostly dissipated but she’s still alive through the growth of shellwood presumably

[prime mantle]

yeah, that's what i meant

[lime osprey]

I wouldn’t say shaped, because i think the process is more involuntary than that implies

Also, you could make the argument that the initial ecosystems of these areas are all naturally occurring

And not brought about by any individual bug

[prime mantle]

i do think the song hornet plays is essentially like heart-dream nail, but the shamans can't play the needolin and they presumably had access to these hearts (if they thought they could defeat them), so it might not be the only way

[edgy nebula]

it's likely for karak, far fields, etc

nyleth no, cause she sowed the first seed that sprouted shellwood

nyleth's a weird heart in general

[prime mantle]

for karmelita and gp i'd agree but khann and especially nyleth are very thoroughly linked to their specific lands

[lime osprey]

The dream needolin is specific to pharloom, as in, it stops working outside of it

[prime mantle]

i dont remember well but isn't it said somewhere that khann as the source of either the coral or the water

[prime mantle]

why?

because of gms?

[edgy nebula]

At water's source, and coral's heart, our lord born last to rule

[lime osprey]

The needolin uses the essence gathered in the ambient silk to enter the dream space. Without the ambient silk Hornet can’t do it

[frosty gate]

What?

[edgy nebula]

this is moreso referring to wear khann resides i think, cause he is literally found at coral's heart and water's source

[lime osprey]

Hornet is only able to use the needolin as a DN because of the essence inside of the ambient silk dreds in Pharloom

[frosty gate]

It still makes no sense that's the source

[prime mantle]

i've never read about the ambient silk thing before, so i'm curious, but presuming it's true:

hornet can make her own silk, or she could theoretically just interact with the ambient soul (which is what silk is derived from, and is presumably worldwide) to access any heart

she might need to change the song tho

[edgy nebula]

i mean, he's found at the top of the river in the memory

[frosty gate]

I know, I just think it's weird. if the place is supposed to be the Water's Source, why did it dry up? Yeah sure the Citadel, but why is there no machinery?

No nothing

No clues as to why the hell did it dry up

[prime mantle]

it'd be funny if sea of sorrow let you flood karak and if you left khann alive he comes back to life or something

[frosty gate]

Or how

The only clue being the pipes connecting from the Citadel to the Slab

[lime osprey]

No, because the ambient silk is what has the essence of the dreams to enter. Hornet cannot string another bugs essence onto silk presumably. Also ambient silk is brought up a lot. In greymoor there are silk catchers, and the caretaker talked about silk dreg pollution getting into shells of bugs

[edgy nebula]

citadel probably just plugged and drained it

it doesnt really matter how it happened

[prime mantle]

hornet constantly does string other bugs' essence into silk, though

that's the primary way of gaining silk

[lime osprey]

She strings soul into silk

[edgy nebula]

soul into silk

[frosty gate]

They would show something right??? Like I don't think they wouldn't show us the way the Citadel did it

[edgy nebula]

she got it from pk

[prime mantle]

i thought you meant soul mb

[edgy nebula]

shrug, it's just vague writing on their part

[frosty gate]

Or something we haven't seen yet

[edgy nebula]

realistically i feel like the weavers would be the more likely candidates to destroy karak but those crustcrags destroy that theory

[edgy nebula]

maybe

[frosty gate]

To be honest I would help you by saying that Karak didn't have to be destroyed inmediately and could've died slowly

[lime osprey]

Coral Gorge has like the idea of water, the inclination of it. We’ve never actually seen bodies of water, running or still, anywhere there

[frosty gate]

But I still don't think that to be the case

[frosty gate]

You know where we do see water?

[limpid summit]

“Alone against the pale light” I think implies they fell to GMS

[edgy nebula]

the evil slab....

[limpid summit]

But yes dried Karak would have to have been at least Conductor times

[lime osprey]

Damn near a confirmation

[frosty gate]

The fucking Slab i swear to god

[prime mantle]

it doesn't really make sense for shamans to have an ability that involves ambient silk though. nothing else they use involves silk whatsoever, and they avoid her gaze like the plague. the needolin does interact with silk specifically, but the shamans hint that they were saving the hearts for themselves, meaning they can access them

[edgy nebula]

the slab has like, a comical amount of coral growth

[frosty gate]

Literally the opposite fucking spot from the Tower

[frosty gate]

And it has the pipes going into it

BUT IT CAN'T BE THE SOURCE OF THE WATER BECAUSE THAT'S THE TOWER

[edgy nebula]

humm

[frosty gate]

So which one is it???????????

[lime osprey]

It’s not really their ability, just a spell they know about. And it does make sense for them to have rituals involving silk

[edgy nebula]

oh also i made this thing awhile back

crusters uppers

karaka
alita
karak gor
corrcrust karaka
crust king khann

non-crusters uppers

yago
conchfly
kai (all variants)
kakri
yuma
yumama
driznarga

it's not super relevant but here

[plain gazelle]

the shamans basically say they're just adapting one of their spells for hornet's use as a weaver. shaman spell use pure soul, weaver stuff uses soul in the form of silk

[frosty gate]

Is this a Hieriarchy of the Karak?

[prime mantle]

so they could access hearts anywhere (soul) but hornet can only access silked hearts because she only knows the silk song?

[edgy nebula]

no, just the enemies that turn into coral bits when they die

[prime mantle]

damn they gatekept that shit that's pretty funny

[frosty gate]

Oh right

[lime osprey]

Know they probably could’ve accessed it, i don’t think they’d be able to pull out the hearts though without silk but idk

Also the hearts are literally just a sustained dream space lol

[plain gazelle]

they did say they weren't willing to harness the old hearts for fear of what it would do to pharloom, which implies they had the option to do so

[edgy nebula]

the shamans just want hornet to do their dirty work, they probably wouldnt be able to kill all the hearts anyway

[prime mantle]

no, i think they could... if they beat the bosses

silk isn't what hornet pulls them out with

she just defeats them and they appear to the side, or on the chests

[lime osprey]

Well kinda. She uses the medium of string for the ritual of extracting the hearts but yeah

[prime mantle]

oh, my point was that if the ritual is a specialized ritual for her that involves silk, and if shamans say they were keeping the hearts' strength, then they had a (presumably soul, which is accessible to everyone) way of enacting the ritual

which i find really funny because it's very consistent with caretaker's character. he's only teaching hornet the power retrieval spell that works on like four people

as he's intimidated of her powerful status

[edgy nebula]

we sooo shouldve been able to elegy of the deep certain areas

let me see past greymoor

silksong farming simulator

[lime osprey]

No, because the dream spaces are sustained by the ritual rhythmic percussion of the hearts

[frosty gate]

Never forget Hornet the Brutalizer, the cut scenes where Hornet was way more brutal while removing the hearts

[frosty gate]

I really want to see all the past of Pharloom

I wanna see what the Citadel was before

[prime mantle]

we were talking abt this earlier but idk why lore and hornet imply that gms destroyed/countered the skarr, karak, verdania etc.

we see like, 0 incentive from her to build a society

their ecological collapses are (likely) due to the citadel, which... she very much does not want and destroys at the first opportunity

i just dont get it

[edgy nebula]

devotion or destruction

[lime osprey]

Their bugs were allured by her presence

[frosty gate]

Nyleth doesn't have an ecollapse and the Skarr had problems only because of the Haunting really

[edgy nebula]

she decided to gain devotion by making children to serve her and do her bidding, and destroyed all who opposed her

[frosty gate]

Khann probably just wanted to rule the entire land and hated GMS because she took over

Verdania is implied to have been lost during the Haunting

[lime osprey]

Dude where did GMS and WL come from

Like ts kills me so bad

[edgy nebula]

gms just showed up one day, wl we have no clue

[frosty gate]

I am convinced that WL was born of a Pale Parasite

[lime osprey]

Like did she drop in from the battle bus or did she travel from somewhere else

[plain gazelle]

made in the pale being factory

[frosty gate]

Chances are she just spawned there

[lime osprey]

Pale higher beings all have the same source i think

Oh boy

[prime mantle]

that was a really long message come on

[frosty gate]

Which is?

[lime osprey]

Would that make her the youngest pale higher being then? Since there are common bugs older than her

[plain gazelle]

the three pale beings we see are all radically different from each other so i'd be surprised if they have the same source instead of just being a broad class of being

[prime mantle]

wl is deffo cursed ending imo. like it just works so much better if thats how you get pale roots.

cotton will crawl her pale tendrils onto hornet's husk and say "mommy?" with no idea that she killed her

[edgy nebula]

i hope we get more karak lore in dlc and it's revealed fayforn just drank all the water

or something stupid

itd be funny

[royal meteor]

lol

[frosty gate]

Absolutely not, she is the oldest we know

Well, not counting the Wyrm

[lime osprey]

How so? We know bugs older than the WL

And we see the weaver queen get born

Those are the only four pale higher beings we know

[frosty gate]

I meant GMS

[lime osprey]

GMS is the youngest besides weaver queen

If she truly just spawned in pharloom

[prime mantle]

the haunting deaths vexes me bc its not even rlly her fault like obviously she's gonna want to free herself if she's forced into a coma by a city, and she's reaching into what silk she can grasp (that was literally sewn into the vessels by the citadel). this comes with severe damage but how aware even is she really? pavo says she's got miserable memories, is that all she thinks of as she sleeps?

then again, i guess telling the green prince his xoxo died because conductor torture asmr wanted a lullaby for the pale girlie up top wouldn't go well

[frosty gate]

Me when I lie, she is older than the Pale King, not the Wyrm, but older than his Bug form

[prime mantle]

i dont think we know much about their ages

like just because hallownest is younger doesn't mean wl and pk weren't around somewhere for a billion years. that goes for gms too

[lime osprey]

Sure she’s older than his bug form, but like, the PK and the white wyrm aren’t two separate higher beings

[frosty gate]

At the very least we know that the Wyrm hadn't transformed into the PK

[prime mantle]

yeah that's a newer occurance

[frosty gate]

I know, but what I mean is that its still old

And we don't know where WL appeared

[plain gazelle]

i don't know how we could compare hallownest and pharloom timelines since the only confirmed points of contact are when the weavers showed up to hallownest and when hornet arrived in pharloom

[prime mantle]

the only theory on wl's origins i saw was that she was pk's parasite. which is cool ig but i doubt that's how that happened

[lime osprey]

If GMS truly just spawned in pharloom, than she is younger than the Pale King. Unless you believe the wild hearts of pharloom predate the wyrm era

[prime mantle]

yeah and the weavers could have been new in hallownest b4 it was built. which would ironically make it around the same age as the citadel

[edgy nebula]

gms is older than the pk but younger than the wyrm because weavers were around deepnest before pk's rule iirc

[frosty gate]

The Weavers reaching Hallownest means it happened after GMS was sealed and it also means that the events of all the Hollow Knight timeline happen while Pharloom was going through shit

[limpid summit]

A bug I am, at least in part, but you are something quite different. I apologise if I have roused you from some deep slumber.

I never noticed how much respect Hornet actually treats Greyroot with

Maybe she reminds her of WL

[prime mantle]

why would gms even just spawn in pharloom? i don't think higher beings drop like fortnite she probably just made herself known for true in pharloom

[edgy nebula]

allat for her to get parasitized

herrah never taught hornet stranger danger

[frosty gate]

Didn't have time

[lime osprey]

Somebody said they think she just spawned there, i was entertaining that idea

[limpid summit]

TK would never

[prime mantle]

oh i didnt see that message mb

[lime osprey]

But it does make me wonder where tf GMS came from

[frosty gate]

I did, there's literally no other clue about it

Her arrival isn't even recorded at all

[prime mantle]

this is definitely why she gets taken advantage of in lore

[frosty gate]

She wasn't there one day

And the other she was

[prime mantle]

wl is kinda like that too

[limpid summit]

Maybe

[prime mantle]

they both presumably existed beforehand

[frosty gate]

Not exactly

Like WL and Pk come in a Combo

[lime osprey]

No, there’s actually NO record of her never existing, unlike every other pale higher being

[frosty gate]

WL does not pass the Bechdel test

She is tied to that man

[lime osprey]

The WL has never been stated to have arrived in Hallownest

[frosty gate]

She wasn't also stated to be there b4hand

[lime osprey]

Yes, so we truly cannot know

[plain gazelle]

greenpath tablet talks about white lady "laying claim" to their former territory in queen's gardens which implies an arrival

[frosty gate]

Yeah, but that's after she was Queen of the Kingdom her lover built

[prime mantle]

idk he kinda goes all the way over to his dead dad's palace and jumps between massive saws to get what is essentially the other wedding ring because he wants his moms to match. deffo plausable for the delicate flower gifting fella to try helping the greyroot

[lime osprey]

No, that was likely during the history of hallownest as she made her refuse there in the gardens. She used to move around and be in the white palace before the infection

[frosty gate]

I am

Truly convinced

That she was a parasite for PK

[lime osprey]

I’m crying, greyroot would’ve put her seed in TK and the fetus would just immediately die

[frosty gate]

This is the only thing that makes sense at this point

[prime mantle]

greyroot might not even try it tbh. she probably just has him gather the flowers and ghost thinks she's a sweet lady who gave her a copper-coin-tasting purpleflower candy. since she knows she can't do rite of rebirth with a void thing

[lime osprey]

You think a root hooked onto the wyrm and the PK reduced his form to get rid of the thing and from that cast of shell emerged the WL?

[frosty gate]

Not as a cause and consequence, but I think they could've appeared together

It makes no sense otherwise

[lime osprey]

Meh

[plain gazelle]

"pk married his own parasite daughter" is coming close to "green princes are twincest" levels of not-team-cherry's-tone

[lime osprey]

I think there are other ways for it to make sense

[lime osprey]

Also, we’ve never seen higher being status be duplicated in that manor

[frosty gate]

https://tenor.com/view/woah-family-guy-peter-griffin-stop-no-more-gif-10171318069740925020

I didn't say she was anyones Daughter

[prime mantle]

the root sucks all of gms' and hornet's power when they're weak if pk crawled to "die" wl wouldve just tore through him

[lime osprey]

It could be more like one being split into two and then United in their diminished forms but ehhhh

[prime mantle]

and he needs to die in order to be smol

[frosty gate]

They do hold two halves of the Kingsoul

[frosty gate]

But those two arent wyrms

[prime mantle]

the wyrm wasn't a king, though

[lime osprey]

Yeahhhhh this sucks, the WL was a separate being who was doing fuck all before the events of the first game.

[frosty gate]

She does fuck all anyway!!!

White Lady has no lore!!!!!

[prime mantle]

hornet kind of is. which is why cotton gains sapience when she is born and begins to wonder why her mom won't say anything :)

[prime mantle]

she does fuck true

[frosty gate]

She's half Wyrm and she mostly looks like a bug

The Wyrm is a fucking dragon

[lime osprey]

Chinese translation moment

[prime mantle]

why do all of pk's kids have the boomerang head where do they get those genes from

[frosty gate]

What?

[prime mantle]

imo if ghost grew up he'd be more rootlike because he'd molt naturally instead of whatever pk did with hollow

[lime osprey]

The initial Chinese translation of silksong called the PK a dragon

[lime osprey]

We know what they’d look like grown up, it’s literally just the shade lord

[prime mantle]

she definitely looks a lot more like pk than herrah tbh

[prime mantle]

shade lord is still an 11 yo

[frosty gate]

I mean, it's not wrong, the way they speak of the Wyrm sounds like a dude in a fantasy world would speak of a dragon

[prime mantle]

mentally. vessels are weird

most languages do not have words that mean both worm and dragon. english is special in that regard

that's prolly why they went for dragon because hollow knight does have regular worms

[limpid summit]

Wyrms are dragon esque yeah even in HK

So Bell Eater (centipede) is like a basilisk or a wyvern

[frosty gate]

You could say they are

[lime osprey]

Okay but like what are root. Root isn’t bug, but it’s also more than bug. Grimm spoke of it s as a status equivalent to that of a wyrm. But greyroot did not seem that at all

[limpid summit]

Is Bardoon like a qilin

[frosty gate]

Like a Dragon

[prime mantle]

well a root isnt a seed

because a seed is nyleth

man plants in hollow knight just dont give a fuck about taxonomy they do whatever theynwant

[limpid summit]

👀👀👀

[prime mantle]

yeah im a seed/root but i also have leaves and flowers and sap and fruit

[limpid summit]

Well we know Wyrms are a species

Kingdoms and foresight

Their instinct is to rule

[lime osprey]

Root gotta be some sort of species too

[limpid summit]

IMO WL and Greyroot despite their obvious differences can both be characterized by a desire to spread

[frosty gate]

We know Roots are also a species, they breed

[prime mantle]

bardoon is a volleyball :) he was left by the ancient ancient civilization (miami)

[lime osprey]

Truthful. Maybe she was doing some shit like that to a bunch of bugs in hallownest before the pale king

[prime mantle]

she kept doing it which is why unn was like man wtf is this bitch doinnnn....

[lime osprey]

But wouldn’t there be a whole bunch of pale beings in Hallownest because of it

[frosty gate]

We would know if she had lore 🥀

[prime mantle]

not necessarily, it's not like the lifeforms she has to "spread" have to be higher or pale. gms and radi spread and """breed""" too, their kids are normal

[frosty gate]

WL is such a weird character I swear, I'm gonna go to it, I hate her so much

[frosty gate]

GMS and Rad's spreading are done for Dominance

GMS wants daughters only so they worship her

[lime osprey]

Radiance’s kids can see and wield essence they are not normal

[frosty gate]

That too

[limpid summit]

The thing is it’s not like WL has any hint of Greyroot tendencies

The Mosskin only avoid her because she’s different

[lime osprey]

Yes she does

[limpid summit]

She’s benevolent

[prime mantle]

not really, they're just cripplingly lonely with 0 idea how to communicate so they force their kids to love them because they have abandonment issues

so yes. but with asterisks

[limpid summit]

Wanting to have a lot of kids is very different from what GR is doing

[lime osprey]

The mosskin were told to avoid her, not all of them did

[lime osprey]

GR literally did have a bunch of kids though

[frosty gate]

Maybe there's different kinds of roots

[prime mantle]

the radiance grimm divorce must have been insane to be honest. no wonder brumm wanted to kill him

[frosty gate]

And they spread in different ways

Also Godsimper says this about White Lady:

"Pale mother... We barely dare to think. The chance of meeting is too rare.... but thine resonance! Could you be one of Them?"

THEM WHO MF

WHO

WHO IS THEM

SPEAK

[limpid summit]

Them is probably HBs tbf

Unn they can’t sense any HB resonance from

[frosty gate]

Absolutely not

[lime osprey]

Pale higher being almost certainly

[prime mantle]

greyroot and white lady do spread a shit ton of roots everywhere. notably they both don't have like, kids besides the ritual stuff? greyroots kids propogate herself, whereas wl only has a bunch of eggs likely designed to integrate void. i doubt they would've lived if they hatched normally

[frosty gate]

Absolutely not, i refuse to believe that TC would actively say "Oh maybe she's one of them" in the most cryptic dialogue ever just to say she's a Higher Being when we already knew that because they said it themselves

[lime osprey]

The WL says she has an innate desire to spread herself through her seed

[lime osprey]

They knew she was a higher being, wait but she also knew she was pale. Hmm, maybe one like the Hollow Knight

[prime mantle]

she does, but i don't think her seed and desire to breed is necessarily like, children. because otherwise she prolly would have had literally any besides the vessels, especially before the plan. greyroot spreads all over the environment of cradle during the ending, so that could be one meaning

[frosty gate]

They're a defo speaking of something else here

[prime mantle]

orrrrrr they could be children like weavers and moths. which she very well might have had! we wouldnt know

...dryya does kind of have a rootish head

and there's isma too

[lime osprey]

Yes this is the difficulty with the WL. WHERE TF ARE HER CHILDREN. Like she’s been here how long and have no other kids?

And yes breeding does mean having kids lol

[lime osprey]

Yeah probably

[prime mantle]

i think im going with the dryya and isma are wl descendants theory i just made up because it doesn't make her to have 0, even if pk refuses

like he'd at least let her make her own weavers/moths

and it's not like she really has to ask him for permission she's a god in her own right

[lime osprey]

No, she intentionally bounded herself after the vessel project so that’s why she isn’t still make kids, but whatever she was doing before that we don’t know

Also she should’ve been there before PK making babies so

[prime mantle]

yeah, i meant before the vessels

[lime osprey]

Oh

Well the WLs existence is terrifying because it implies like a whole bunch of pale, demi-god, beings just roaming around

[prime mantle]

was white lady waiting for the one 😭

[lime osprey]

Wouldn’t make sense for her to bound herself then

[prime mantle]

but she couldnt have BEEN BECAUSE SHE HAS NO KIDDDSSSSS

can you imagine her just begging pk to have kids with her for years and when he finally comes up to her its to have kids to die

[lime osprey]

I really don’t think it’s a matter of whether or not she did have kids because imo she literally HAD to have had kids. I think it’s a matter of whether or not they are still around /where they went

Like she is quite literally an immortal fertility god she has to have some other kids somewhere

[prime mantle]

since she is totally chill (or at least masking really well) with how she feels about vessels theres NO way she didn't have kids before. if her one and only were the dead emotionless things she'd snap

[lime osprey]

Yeah her nonchalant attitude towards the vessels, though you can tell she’s hurt, does signify to me that she has had kids prior

[prime mantle]

again, i don't think her kids have to be immortal or even demigods, but they have to exist

[lime osprey]

We’ve never seen a HB reproduce and not pass on some of their abilities

[prime mantle]

are we counting weavers and moths as demigods

i meant like, hornet or vessel scale

she could have a bunch of the former

[lime osprey]

No, at least not the weavers sense they are confirmed not divine

[plain gazelle]

do we even know if she was in hallownest before the vessel project? she could have been a mail order bride PK brought in to make a bunch of kids

[prime mantle]

weavers, moths, mosskin and joni aren't particularly powerhouses but they do carry the natures of their parents

[lime osprey]

The moths are iffy. They can change their form at will which is way beyond something non-HBs can do

[lime osprey]

Yeah, i considered that she just spawned right before the infection too

[lime osprey]

Mosskin are not biological children of Unn, just creations

Moths might be the same

Weavers are confirmed not divine

[prime mantle]

are there even any biokids besides lace, phantom, hornet and the vessels

[lime osprey]

And Joni was a common Bug who was allured by lifeblood

[prime mantle]

...grimmchild ig

[lime osprey]

Grimm

Yeah

And Grimm does have special abilities and special perceptiveness way outside that of a common bug

The only outlier here is the seer, who i like to believe was a bug elevated by the radiance

Her and the whole moth tribe

[blissful harbor]

moths are elevated lumaflies ong

[prime mantle]

the biokid theory makes it a lot more complicated because any biokid wl has would have to be really strong? like, i dont know. maybe having to have one kid over a billion concentrates the power. the weavers are spiders, who have hundreds of eggs (even if breeding is arduous for weavers), but pk and herrah just have one child

and the vessels are specifically "born of god and void", they were designed to be mass produced so the void would hollow them out and fill them so that one among them would rise and be the pure vessel

lace is weak but gms didn't exactly have sex to make her

[lime osprey]

No that’s the thing, like that’s the whole thing that’s confusing about the WL. There should be an entire pale caste of super soldiers or some shit because of her

[gentle aspen]

I mean, they really don’t

[lime osprey]

Lace is strong

[gentle aspen]

The only difference is within the dream realm

[lime osprey]

That’s still a crazy ability to have, to freely move between dream and change your form within dream. Also the seer transcends into…something else at the end of her quest

[gentle aspen]

she effectively dies at the end of it

[prime mantle]

im going with the "focus" theory, having many kids weakens the "pale power" or "highness" or whatever going into them. focusing on a fewer number ensures successful reproduction. gms can barely handle one child after her raised weavers abandon her.

but she's also asleep so maybe if she was cognizant in her making she'd spam kids. maybe she didn't even like, mean to abandon phantom and the citadel cut her off or something. i like gms more as a tragic figure

[lime osprey]

Effectively sure but it is more than a simple, bodily death

[lime osprey]

The entire vessel project doesn’t make sense if this is true

[gentle aspen]

I mean Ze’mer dies weird and Quirrel leaves no corpse

[gentle aspen]

???

Lace and Phantom aren’t biological children of GMS?

[gentle aspen]

they’re comprised entirely of silk and were made

not born

the theory also doesn’t like, make much sense

GMS isn’t a tragic figure she’s someone who was a bad mother and caused a lot of strife

[lime osprey]

Ze’mer just didn’t die imo and quirrel could’ve just jumped in the lake. Also Ze’mer had an odd origin connected to the supernatural already so

[gentle aspen]

quirrel didn’t commit suicide

[edgy nebula]

he went for a swim

[gentle aspen]

and ze’mer did just die

[limpid summit]

He probably dusted infinity war style

[lime osprey]

Obviously, also there’s not being a corpse doesn’t mean he died in any special way

[gentle aspen]

she literally goes “can I (che) too end” and then dies

[gentle aspen]

It just isn’t a “special death”

[prime mantle]

thats why i brought up the vessels earlier. they were "born of god and void", so she could reproduce a lot of children that were made specifically to intake void and attain their powers this way. half the parent is void. it's important to say that most vessels still die or fail, and they're left with nothing more than shells and shades.

i dont... know though. any solutions or ideas for how to support this or if im wrong?

[gentle aspen]

it just seems entirely baseless to assert that pale beings having kids weakens them

[lime osprey]

Also, his demise has some magic involved in it, as without the mask his years of aging quickly catch up to him

[gentle aspen]

That’s just not true and isn’t really supported by anything

[limpid summit]

Especially since WL still feels that desire to have kids

[prime mantle]

i dont think it weakens the pale being

[lime osprey]

Ze’mer is from a place heavily associated with the super natural. WL calls it “lands serene”

[prime mantle]

where are you getting that from

[lime osprey]

“Everblooms were brought to Hallownest from "lands serene" by the Great Knight Ze'mer”

[prime mantle]

yeah but so is gms, its similar enough to make a comparison

[gentle aspen]

She’s the SOURCE of silk

[prime mantle]

wasnt at you dw

[lime osprey]

Both is wrong. Both GMS and her children have a physical, black base. Unless you believe the black part of them is also silk

[prime mantle]

why wouldn't it be

hornet sucks the black part too in weaver queen

act 1 lace is void theory

[lime osprey]

Ykw you are correct

[edgy nebula]

i mean

[lime osprey]

If GMS asexually created children from silk and all three of them are only made of silk. Then those are biological children since, since silk is their biology

[prime mantle]

i wonder if hk bugs even have like, dna. soul seems to cover that forte

[prime mantle]

its messed up bc they aren't even just pale they are also root... literal super soldier category. army of kirby's

even when voided roots can just eat rocks and gain the ability to zoom through the skylines

or just insta kill any bug that isn't divine while in infancy

[dire lynx]

hornet turns every bug she binds the crest of into silk

[prime mantle]

by her time of binding the bugs she binds are nothing but collected soul except for witch

[dire lynx]

you can physically see the bodies of some of them

[prime mantle]

i thought they exploded honestly

its offscreen i guess she might suck those in too

itd mean she can bind metal into her though

[dire lynx]

gms' legs are launched off in the cutscene

idk abt arms

[prime mantle]

yeah, but the architect is destroyed. so she's prolly not consuming the crest bodies

[dire lynx]

when she plunges the needle in and you press the bind ur silk fills up and silk particles fly out, along with a main pillar of silk

[prime mantle]

yeah wasn't that like, some needle storm?

or a wide binding "taunt"

by offscreen i meant that the bodies are gone/damaged when you wake up

they're still there during the binding

[dire lynx]

just watched the architect one, you appear to suck out the silkflies inside the chorus robot

its the only crest that doesnt have the silk effects while claiming it

[prime mantle]

oh shit, interesting

silkflies are silk, but if she does suck in the whole body, i wonder why the limit is at metal

i mean, the shaman and beast crests aren't particularly soft either, though she can stab them directly unlike with architect flies

[dire lynx]

wait, it does, i was just missing it because of the glowing from the eyes

the eyes also glow brighter as it happens tho

it is still the only crest that leaves a shell beind

[prime mantle]

a pretty wrecked shell

beast only lops the head off iirc

the other crests dissapear or destroy the whole thing though

the big snail is a crater in shaman, and the wanderer and reaper corpses are gone

[dire lynx]

beast

[prime mantle]

it feels like she just left the parts that were lying on the ground lol

is her bind a picky eater

[dire lynx]

maybe the snail and beast were fossilised/partially fossilised

[whole holly]

i think they withered away or something similar

[gentle aspen]

probably needs a decent amount of soul in order to leave a personality imprint on Hornet

[whole holly]

crest bodies i mean

some think she binds the physical bodies

[prime mantle]

yeah but that doesn't explain why the physical bits are gone 🤔

[gentle aspen]

bodies wear away with time

[whole holly]

but i think some thread storm-esque effect from binding withers them away

[prime mantle]

maybe the extraction process destroyed it? or she just eats them with it

[prime mantle]

in like, a few minutes?

[gentle aspen]

she is draining them of their soul

[whole holly]

extraction process destroys it as they are likely very fragile

[prime mantle]

yeah that's my take too. the soul might be what's preserving them in the first place. all of these crests are well protected

[whole holly]

stabbing it with needle and sapping soul out of it is bound to destroy it

[whole holly]

and i still think about this point

while i don't think Pale King was tyrant, he was a ruler, other wyrms might have similar tendencies that aligns with pulling bugs into their thralls

Pale Beings are about devotion or destruction also, Hornet says that part of her wants to usurp GMS and take her place, which she attributes to her nature

i have full thread about this, about Pale King's actions with retrospective

[prime mantle]

hornet is also quite disillusioned after centuries of having to kill her siblings (which she now knows were like, people) and protect her dad's failing kingdom. i think she's rather opinionated and wants to seperate herself from anyone that desires rule or power (while also feeling that pale urge for it herself)

at least if you go for act 3. weaver queen hornet doesnt gaf

it's actually rather interesting how they managed to keep most of those entries and dialouges post act 3

gp, liquid lacquer....

[whole holly]

i don't think it is exclusive to pale nature, Weavers have that nature as well

[whole holly]

but Wyrms have similar nature and Pale Beings tend to be about devotion or destruction

[prime mantle]

oh right, it would be her weaver side too

[dire lynx]

weavers about as pale as the stag

[whole holly]

Radiance while not being pale is basically same, that's more of Powerful higher being thing

[prime mantle]

desiring power isn't exactly a rare trait in hk or silksong

[whole holly]

Weavers aren't really pale themselves, they are ascended bugs

[prime mantle]

its usually personal though

[potent whale]

Even the maggots do and they aren’t very higher

[whole holly]

sure but dialogue implies it is Pale Being's inherent nature and that's how they stand out

[prime mantle]

yeah, i think hornet might genuinely believe that

[whole holly]

from Higher beings or just bugs?

[prime mantle]

which is a little odd because pk was clearly trying his best, hollow just wants to be a good vessel, ghost wants to save hollow, lace wants to spite gms and wl doesn't give a fuck? 2/7

[whole holly]

from hornet's perspective it might make sense, she knows Unn, White Lady who annexed greenpath and took part of vessel project, Pale King who wanted devotion and pulled kingdom into it's thrall, she does not know radiance herself or she wouldn't think that

[whole holly]

i don't think she is fully accurate but game is from her perspective which is limited, it also might be Weaver's teaching as well

[prime mantle]

does she not know radiance? i think she does

[prime mantle]

yeah, that's what i meant, hornet is very disillusioned and like, has severe daddy issues lbr

[whole holly]

maybe Weavers told her that because and GMS, they were of Pale King and somewhat isolated after all

[prime mantle]

i do think her feelings are honest though, so this is a drive she (and likely other pale beings) gets

the fact that she can manage it would mean others could as well. white lady manages her voracious desire to breed, if we were to make a comparison

[whole holly]

well i don't think she knows what radiance looks like, she just knows there is infection and higher being at heart of it, but if she personally knew about radiance's form she might have better perspective that is is overall higher beings

[blazing venture]

Hi everyone

[whole holly]

Pale King is relatively better higher being... on scale of what he did for kingdom, but Hornet's perspective is being princess protector of dying land which makes so much sense, she lost everything....

[blazing venture]

guys can i share my theory

Act 3 spoilers tho

[whole holly]

sure

[prime mantle]

sure

[blazing venture]

Alr so

I feel like the surface climb

Section

Is the path the weavers used

To migrate from Pharloom to deepnest

Because we see

The

Garpid enemy

Which is very similiar

To the uhh

Garpede

In deepnest

anyways thats it

pretty lame ik

[prime mantle]

plausable, 🤔 they wouldn't need to worry about gms in the cradle since they'd just sealed her securely anyway, they could leave through the surface

[blazing venture]

Also theres a point in the surface climb where the colour palette becomes very similar to deepnests colour palette

[prime mantle]

ofc they could also leave through the caves, but maybe the deepnest took some garpids with them. notably deepnest is deep while garpids are surface bugs, though

[blazing venture]

Hmm

I think we DO see garpids in hallownest though