sk-lore

[spark valve]

Imposing old insect nesting in the heights of Shellwood. Her command of twig and branch ensured no pilgrim ever survived her territory.

[edgy nebula]

what’s the topic changed to?

[frosty gate]

But they're all connected to the land at the very least

[spark valve]

yeah in a pretty vague sense

[whole holly]

Old Hearts

[dire lynx]

before people start saying it, no nyleth and splinter are NOT sisters

[frosty gate]

Still about Palestag being a possible Old Heart

[edgy nebula]

yeah but what about them

[whole holly]

their relation to Palestag

[spark valve]

all I'm saying is it's maybe possible for palestag to be connected magically with the environment without having the same sorts of magical abilities as khann

[frosty gate]

Oh and the Princes make clovers grow back when they're back in Verdania so that's that too

[frosty gate]

Oh I can agree with that

[whole holly]

Moss Druid making a heart is interesting and likely will have significant implications on how hearts are produced by environment and how they are required to maintain it

[frosty gate]

I wonder if she's making one or if there is one and no one can find it

[dire lynx]

WE ALL agree gilly will be the new heart for far fields

[whole holly]

idk, she hearts it and somehow makes connection to mossberries, maybe it is natural process she is accelerating

[edgy nebula]

splinter king for shellwood as the next heart would be so radical

[frosty gate]

Yeah sure, I like lil Gilly

[spark valve]

idk if far fields will get a new heart anytime soon

[whole holly]

i disagree

[spark valve]

hornet kind of breaks the cycle of succession by claiming the hearts and burning them as fuel

[frosty gate]

To be fair, Hornet kinda makes it sound like she doomed the region and that the people will have to work like normal people to mantain it

[dire lynx]

but then when she kills the prince it restores verdania

[whole holly]

new hearts can be made again, if environment produces them, resources make it feasible

[frosty gate]

You are 100% right but you know what's weird about it?

[whole holly]

that is true

[frosty gate]

Stole the words right out of my brain

[whole holly]

Team Cherry try not to be vague and contradictory challenge : impossible

[spark valve]

verdania is very weird, maybe tc just didn't expect you to do that as one of the three or something, it definitely contradicts the gilly dialogue

[frosty gate]

I SWEAR TO GOD

[dire lynx]

maybe with noone left to inherit the land itself reclaims the power?

[limpid summit]

It’s genuinely the exact opposite of it

But it only appears if you have done it?

[whole holly]

so TRUE AppleEgg

[limpid summit]

It’s like a fast forwarding of what Hornet says

[spark valve]

the power isn't around to be inherited it's in the heart hornet just took

[whole holly]

but maybe Far Fields may experience trouble or extinction before new ecosystem appears, that's how i interpreted it

[dire lynx]

gilly mogs

[limpid summit]

I genuinely think it’s either this guy or a living Gurr

[spark valve]

I don't think the implication of what hornet says with karm is that the same shit will come back eventually

[edgy nebula]

nah, it should be a vicious caranid

[spark valve]

it's creating a place where something new could be born

[limpid summit]

A mottled Skarr taking the throne would break the cycle of hatred that began anew when Karmelita’s power waned

[whole holly]

i think Flapping Fertid for sure

[limpid summit]

I mean she’s like the caves will regrow and flourish

“But it will take many lifetimes”

[spark valve]

from new first seeds

it's not the same life regrowing it's just life in general

[limpid summit]

Maybe for all intents and purposes what Hornet said to Gilly coincides with the death of the Clover Dancer

In that time period

Dude this shouldn’t have to be justified it should make sense

[whole holly]

exactly, a lifetimes have passed since death of verdania and clover dancer was final lifetime passed that enabled plantlife's growth

[spark valve]

it doesn't though

[whole holly]

Team Cherry should just make me writer

[edgy nebula]

if i was mod none of this would happen!

[spark valve]

hornet isn't saying 'it's okay, long term things will work out and life will return just as it was'

[whole holly]

i truly does since it will take lifetimes

[spark valve]

she's saying 'yeah I had to doom everything here to an inevitable death, but eventually, given time, something new can occupy this space'

[whole holly]

life isn't returning how it was it is just new life beginning for all intents and purposes

[limpid summit]

I don’t think she’s treating it as something entirely new beyond the death of Karmelita

She’s just talking about rebirth and new growth in the context of growth that wasn’t there before

[spark valve]

she is she talks about sowing the first seeds

For that task to succeed, it will fall to bugs like you to sow the first seeds.

[limpid summit]

I don’t think thats entirely literal

And it doesn’t imply something completely new

[spark valve]

it isn't entirely literal but my point isn't about the literal meaning

[spark valve]

yes it does?

it's the first seeds

[limpid summit]

Yeah when it comes to new life

You’ve got the mottled skarrscout and Gurr and likely other mottleds in hiding

[spark valve]

which is new life

[limpid summit]

But that would break the immersion of the metaphor

[whole holly]

bugs naturally carry seeds and pollen, it is just seeds of new life that are sown that resembles Verdania in death of Clover Dancers

[limpid summit]

Okay wait what’s the difference between what Hornet says to Gilly in the present about a far future and Verdania regrowing identical plant life in a future relative to the death of GP’s lover

[whole holly]

i think Old Hearts serves as figure of speech on how some bugs maintain ecosystems and are vital to it, i don't think it is meant to be magical

[whole holly]

not much

[spark valve]

hornet's talking about the caves' future without a heart magically sustaining them where hard work is necessary to see life return
verdania is apparently life just magically returning on its own with nobody doing anything

they're antithetical

[limpid summit]

Every Heart is antithetical none are consistent

Far Fields is dying later Karak there’s not like a spring or anything Shellwood is still alive Verdania just randomly starts regrowing

[spark valve]

you were just arguing that verdania is an expression of what hornet is talking about in far fields don't move the goalposts

[limpid summit]

I’m not moving the goalposts this isn’t an argument

It’s a lamentation

I don’t understand what they were trying to convey here

[whole holly]

life is not returning on it's own, though their sacrifice new seeds can begin growing

[spark valve]

verdania wasn't even like that at launch they went out of their way to make shit incoherent

[limpid summit]

I think they just couldn’t end their one gay plotline on such a poor note

So they had to just make a clover

[whole holly]

it is just team cherry's inconsistency, it is not your responsibility to rationalize it at all, Shellwood is alive after we get heart of nyleth and new growth in verdania is new life for all intents and purposes, at least to me

[limpid summit]

“We are life…We are growth…What world without us?” I don’t know stuff seems to be going okay

[spark valve]

Chapel Maid: This task before you... This is mortal power you would claim, the hearts of bugs. It will cost their last strength to save this land.

Chapel Maid: Even we have some hesitation in this. Despite our desire to touch their power, we'd never wished to see it expended so utterly.
Hornet: Better to leave your land weak in wonder, if it means your shells, and those of your fellows, stay intact
the game is really consistent here except for verdania

could just attribute verdania to last echoes of power and say it won't really regrow but eh

[whole holly]

new life doesn't necessarily mean different to what it was before, those lands with old hearts had to have been established at one point without old heart after all, it makes sense for it restart life basically, because part of big game's theme is that life finds a way

[edgy nebula]

i feel like every heart area is destined to regrow

karak with the grey memento, verdania with the clovers, karmelita with gilly

shellwood with uh

[spark valve]

nature abhors a vacuum, but it'll regrow with new life not continuations of the old

[edgy nebula]

whatever shellwood has

[limpid summit]

Maybe the unique manner of GP’s memory restoration allows clovers to just be plucked out of the memory like the everbloom?

But there’s no power source strong enough for that

[whole holly]

even in Karmelita's and Green Prince's death and different implications, overall message is same

[spark valve]

I mean the clovers aren't nearly as magical as the everbloom

[whole holly]

wdym, they are hearts by themselves, conjoined ones in fact

[limpid summit]

Yeah but you can’t just take things out of memories

It’s not about the everbloom

[spark valve]

sure you can

[edgy nebula]

i wonder, did gp’s lover also have a heart? and if he did, was it also conjoined?

or did gp’s heart become conjoined after his lover’s death

[whole holly]

i think everbloom's properties manifesting took a lot of power, clovers shouldn't take as much

[spark valve]

the heart was shared across both of them

it's both their hearts

[whole holly]

Seer did it in first game with ease

[limpid summit]

That was a dream

[edgy nebula]

so it did become conjoined after his death?

[limpid summit]

And she has dream powers

[whole holly]

Dream Wielder charm and Dream Nail are plucked from dreams/memories

[limpid summit]

Is that why GP doesn’t do anything but sit down and stand

He has heart palpitations

[spark valve]

the heart is manifested by hornet through drem magic it doesn't mean he was literally walking around with two hearts in his chest

[limpid summit]

Is red memory the nightmare realm

[spark valve]

probably not

[edgy nebula]

well, we see khann’s heart pop out of him after his death, that implies his heart is physical, no?

[whole holly]

Ahhhhh. 500 Essence. You're a master in the making. Well done! Well done! I've a small reward for you.

Plucked from one of my most precious memories, this Charm will bring you and the Dream Nail closer together still.

it makes sense for Everbloom's power to manifest and need equal power of higher being, other charm and clover are basic things

[spark valve]

She takes it out of his chest in a dream

[sinful nimbus]

Grimm fight in red memory

So much tuffer than Vespa

Make him give you the everbloom too

[spark valve]

Its purposefully blurring the line between literal hearts and metaphorical hearts

[edgy nebula]

fair enough

[whole holly]

Star cooking

[spark valve]

(Rare good silksong writing)

[sinful nimbus]

"Witness, the first light. The only means your family possesses to resist that void with which it is forever linked. Of course, with the exception of my Dear Wyrm and his radiant aura."

[spark valve]

[limpid summit]

I thought that was cut

The real time cutscene?

[edgy nebula]

theyre referring to the one where hornet slices through him i think

[sinful nimbus]

It got replaced with a different heart ripping cutscene

[limpid summit]

Immersion break for PK glaze would be peak

Oh you meant the regular one

[edgy nebula]

“…Our claws to crush… Our claws to rule… Our claws to save them all…” 🗣️

[spark valve]

"save"

[sinful nimbus]

Maybe Khann x Groal would be a thematically coherent ship

I'll call it... Kroal

[edgy nebula]

rings a bell..

[spark valve]

idk if khann is like actively malicious he just has a terrible brutal world view

[frosty gate]

I think he's just an extremist

Groal is the Johnny Silverhand of Silksong

[spark valve]

maybe it's been too long since I've played cyberpunk but idk if that's particularly apt

[sinful nimbus]

Well if Silksong was well written Coral Gorge would just be Bilewater and Bilewater would be dead

[spark valve]

bilewater works pretty well writing wise

it's similar to the slab

[sinful nimbus]

Make Bilewater Verdania or something idk Verdania is fine but I don't want to let go

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah that's why I want to apply it to Coral Gorge

Which has an actually cool aesthetic

[frosty gate]

"Hate for their light. Hate for their pins. For their waste poured thick and endless.
Fill your hearts with hate, for power has now been claimed, and with it we shall punish."

I haven't been hating the right way ngl

[sinful nimbus]

Khann becoming a tyrant to combat GMS would work better than Groal ripping off Soul Master 🥱

[spark valve]

Live ss discussion footage

[frosty gate]

Wasn't he a Tyrant before GMS?

[edgy nebula]

khann descent into madness plot would be tuff

[frosty gate]

Real shit

[sinful nimbus]

#ss-discussion wasn't nearly so hateful

[edgy nebula]

probably

[spark valve]

Yes but Star is talking about hypothetical alternatives writing wise

[frosty gate]

PLEASE LET ME SEE HIM DELVE INTO INSANITY I WANNA SEE THE PAST OF PHARLOOM SO BAD

[frosty gate]

Oh Ok

[frosty gate]

Ironic, considering the acronym used

[whole holly]

i think a Kingdom or a Ruler should have collaborated with Shaman, maybe Khann?

[sinful nimbus]

The weavers collaborating with their fellow soul mages would've been tuff

[limpid summit]

Why didn’t Hornet do anything about Soul Sanctum

[frosty gate]

None of them mention collaboration with the tribes I think

They also clown on Seeker for dying after looking to Collab with Groal lmao

[sinful nimbus]

I strongly doubt the lower class of the capital ever thought to bathe

[whole holly]

failed pact is not necessarily meaningful, Groal ripping off Soul Master wasn't meaningful either

[whole holly]

they would actually have succeeded

[sinful nimbus]

She feels no remorse to see them felled

[edgy nebula]

their soulful plight elicits no smypathy from me

[whole holly]

i agree, she should have binded soul master

[frosty gate]

Maybe that's what Absolom was doing

[frosty gate]

She probably didn't know, I mean PK didn't

If anything PK should've been the one to stop him

[whole holly]

absolom... i don't think so, but weavers did try to ally with Fayforn, Pale King, Spider Tribe, should have allied with Shamans like Star said

it's also very interesting, fact that hornet was captured AFTER the infection

[whole holly]

because haunted bugs were still vulnerable to infection i guess..?

[limpid summit]

I thought the Groal entry was about him

Beyond just a callback

[whole holly]

so true AppleEgg: "This one's strength was much enhanced by stolen soul. They are not the first who tried to hoard it, or to mould it towards such violent ends. "

[whole holly]

but wasn't Soul Sanctum locked and isolated? as well as City of Tears itself? maybe hornet didn't care enough and PK was in Dream Realm?

[edgy nebula]

<@&283547423706447872>

[whole holly]

thanks bob and mod

[limpid summit]

Yeah but Hornet meets us in CoT

I think we can chalk it up to gameplay

She could have maybe beaten TL to go talk to WL

But then there wouldn’t be a boss

[halcyon merlin]

hornet is a fraud

she lives in hallownest after the infection for who knows how long

and there's still a bunch of strong enemies there

[fleet sparrow]

Does racism exist in Pharloom?
I know the outside tribes and kingdoms hated the Citadel and their guts, but i think that was more focused on the fact that the Citadel was destroying the homes.
What im talking about is racism

[frosty gate]

Hornet's journal entries about the flies should answer your question

Star's favorite topic

[fleet sparrow]

Oh right

The flies are underated

[craggy smelt]

specieism

[zealous canyon]

what happened to the snail shamans after the red memory

[graceful grail]

They begin glowing during the spell. But wether they die, ascend, or dip. Only TC knows.

[limpid summit]

Shamans when it comes to killing themselves by serving as power sources

https://tenor.com/view/lebron-james-lebron-pregame-scare-illuminati-baphomet-chest-gif-11150358982865413291

[cunning carbon]

A part of me really wants to know more about how Herrah and the pale king did “it”

It’s possible it was barely a trifle, PK fertilizing her Virgin Mary style.
But the thought it was more physical and the PK needed to get “in the mood” is also really funny. He’s so short, the experience could have killed him.

[tawdry flare]

TMI

[twilit crest]

Just noticed

Hornet really is the only (or at least one of few) prisoner that slabflys strip naked

They really single her out and that’s kind of wild

[frigid belfry]

pretty sure she’s canonically attractive to other bugs

Or maybe they know she’s a more of a threat with her tools

[frosty gate]

That or that one dude has bad taste

[frigid belfry]

Or maybe Ari just wanted to draw clotheless hornet

[edgy nebula]

it's a pretty large discrepancy, idk why tc did it

[twilit crest]

Environmental storytelling

[frigid belfry]

Likely not too indifferent from how actual bugs reproduce considering broodmother, gruz mother, etc

[twilit crest]

Probably to demonstrate that the slabflys are particularly gross with hornet

[frigid belfry]

Always back to slabfly debate again😔

[twilit crest]

Wdym? Things seem chill rn

[frigid belfry]

joking

✌️

[twilit crest]

That’s not allowed only serious things in my good halal lore chat

[oak palm]

Let's discuss about how this world has no nudity taboo again!

[frosty gate]

Not that large, the rest of the bugs imprisoned arent really clothed
They have sacks over their head and have a collar. They probably do that to all bugs, maybe they were gonna do that to Hornet

FS was also naked

[cunning carbon]

While I don’t doubt their ability to get snasty, the Pale King is a higher being. It’s possible he placed his hand on Herras baby, paused for a moment and BOOM! Conception achieved.

[edgy nebula]

that's fair, maybe it's a punishment for weavers since theyd be able to weave clothes or something

[twilit crest]

At least they’re covered in some way as opposed to hornet being totally naked

[frigid belfry]

So basically she was “touched pale”

Huh

Sounds familiar

[cunning carbon]

FS was a corpse

[twilit crest]

I think there is definitely an implied grossness with the slabfly-hornet interaction

[frosty gate]

Corpse are usually buried clothed

[frosty gate]

They were trying to figure out how to put a sack over her horns

[cunning carbon]

Usually… uncle Jim Bobs funeral told me that 99% ain’t 100%

[edgy nebula]

wdym?

[twilit crest]

Of all the prisoners we see, Hornet is the only one stripped naked. Her reaction as well as the observed ways that slabflys play with her clothes implies a unique level of vulnerability/disrespect.

[frosty gate]

You assume she's the only one who went through this kind of humilliation

[twilit crest]

Maybe not only one at all but def the only one we see

Not all surprising to see a character like hornet react extremely negatively towards any humiliation

[frosty gate]

I mean, most people have been there for who knows how long

[twilit crest]

That’s why I said that first part

Its illogical to assume Hornet is the first naked prisoner in the history of the slab

[frosty gate]

What I'm trying to say is that this behavior is not necessarily limited to Hornet

[twilit crest]

I just said that

What we know for certain is that she’s the only naked slab prisoner that the player sees

[limpid summit]

I don’t think the slabflies stripping Hornet is supposed to be a diegetic strip thing

I can see how it could be read as a metaphor out of universe

But they’re just slaves finding their own fun pretending to be her

[twilit crest]

Idt a metaphor is necessary. They uniquely humiliate her

[edgy nebula]

if it's an intended metaphor it's a really bad one

[limpid summit]

Everything with the flies is handled poorly

[edgy nebula]

shrue

[twilit crest]

I just thought it was interesting to point out

[limpid summit]

When bro tries to cheer me up from my downtrodden slave life by waving a prisoners needle around and yelling but Hornet lowkey blows our shit smoove off 💔

[twilit crest]

A case study in fucking around and finding out

[crimson patio]

Or maybe it’s for gameplay purposes cuz they don’t want you to fly all around pogoing off of all the wardens they painstakingly coded

[twilit crest]

Could be multiple things yeah

[edgy nebula]

my best guess is probably some fanservice, realistically shed just get some penitent clothes

the penitent neck brace could be a good reason for her powers to be limited if it were there

[twilit crest]

The cage does this fine enough

They could’ve done what most games do and just contrive some sort of “prisoner’s rags/clothes” item for her to wear. The choice to have her naked seems deliberate.

[crimson patio]

I mean honestly I’ve never really thought of it as being naked

They have exoskeletons, that’s clothing

Any clothing looking things should just be accessories

[twilit crest]

Exoskeletons are as much clothing as our own skin

[dreamy onyx]

Maybe they just really hated her because she's a Weaver lol

[twilit crest]

I think that’s possible

[dreamy onyx]

They just wanted to have a power trip

[crimson patio]

Oh ok so everyone is just running around naked all the time ig
So it doesn’t matter if they take her cloak or not

[twilit crest]

“Take her down a notch” type shi

[dreamy onyx]

Clothes in HK are weird tbf

Snail Shamans don't wear them unless it's to mask their identity
Green Prince doesn't wear them
Pilgrims only wear rags
Weavers wear dresses
Tipp and Pill don't wear anything

[crimson patio]

Widow over here only have a headcloth

[twilit crest]

The choice to wear clothes even in a largely nude society is deliberate. We can see in red memory that Hornet clearly has some level of emotional sentimentality associated with her cloak.

[crimson patio]

If everyone is actually naked why would them taking hornet’s cloak be such a big deal

[twilit crest]

.

[crimson patio]

Yea the flies don’t know that tho

They just wanna take her stuff lol

[twilit crest]

Do they have to?

[dreamy onyx]

Well she probably can't bind a dress + she's gone crazy + her skull was basically flayed off, it's probably more important to hide that

[twilit crest]

Slabflys don’t need to know what Hornet cares about her clothes for Hornet to be mad at her clothes being stolen

[crimson patio]

Yea but it doesn’t have to imply grossness

She’s just mad they took her stuff

[twilit crest]

What did you think I meant by gross

[crimson patio]

Idk
Humiliation?

[twilit crest]

Forcibly removing someone’s clothing isn’t humiliating?

[crimson patio]

Or she just doesn’t want people touching her stuff

[twilit crest]

Could be either or both I guess

[crimson patio]

She threatened Grindle when he tried to reach into her pockets too

[cunning carbon]

I find the flies journal entries funny.

The shellwood enemy, the purple bugs who make nests, hornet remarks that, while annoying, wiping out this population and their hives could negatively affect the ecosystem of shellwood.
Then she gets to the fly guards of the slab and: “I’m hornet from hallow nest and I say kill them all”

[craggy smelt]

wasps aren't quite fly-like enough to trigger her fly hatred

[crimson patio]

It’s baked into her DNA from when Herrah was still in Pharloom trust me

[muted lantern]

Do you guys think lace killed pilgrims because it was the job GMS gave her or did she just think it would impress her

Also for the prior conversation I just assume they took her cloak because they knew it held all her gear and they didn't want to risk her smuggling anything with hidden pockets. Plus the cloak itself is a tool that would aid in escape if you have drifters.

[frosty gate]

Both are valid

[edgy nebula]

part of the discussion was why she wasnt just given penitent clothes

[muted lantern]

It would be cool if she was, but since fs doesn't have clothes I imagine weaver prisoners are prob treated different

Hornet seemed to be treated different than the other prisoners. Being kept in a tiny cage to restrain her instead of in the larger cells we find penitents.

Hornet probably wasn't meant to be a permanent resident, but to be transferred to the citadel as soon as the choir arrived to pick her up.

On a more thematic level taking her cloak is kind of stripping her of her identity, kinda symbolized how her crest and spells are locked off even things not related to her cloak or needle.

A penitent hornet design would be cool af to see tho

[spark valve]

This is probably the case

[frosty gate]

Actually that makes sense

Penitents are there to

Well

Suffer

[spark valve]

I don’t know why some people are so determined to try to be gross about it

Well yes I do

But it’s bad

[frosty gate]

I mean it's gross, but I don't think there's some secret inuendo

[spark valve]

Her cloak was filled with weapons and lined with steel spines

It would be stupid for them not to take it

[muted lantern]

I remember seeing someone calling the game misogynistic for it. And like... I can't fathom people looking at a stick figure and thinking it's sexual.

[frosty gate]

And if you reached Twelfth first, you could even make your cloak into a literal fucking saw

[frosty gate]

The first week of people talking about Twisted Child being about abortion was rough

[muted lantern]

I mean, the allegory is there.

[spark valve]

I mean that’s at least a stronger allegory

I don’t know if it’s the intent

But you can much more reasonably read that that way

[frosty gate]

I don't say it isn't but the last thing I fucking think about in my game about bugs is abortion 😭

Everytime I read stuff like this I remember Evangelion and the crosses

[spark valve]

Something something alien reference

[frosty gate]

People overanalyzing it and the real reason ends up "It looked cool"

[spark valve]

The tone of that questline is also just bizarre in general

Choices were sure made

[frosty gate]

It was a creepy questline but there's plenty of creepy moments in silksong imo

[spark valve]

Sure

[frosty gate]

It was a weird quest for sure

[nimble kayak]

What’s the explanation for the size discrepancy between the Mist before and after defeating Phantom?

[foggy fractal]

what is your top 5 creepiest stories

in silksong

[spark valve]

it's not real, it's a magic labyrinth created either as a confusing space or purely mentally by the smog suffused with silk and phantom's will

[coral falcon]

Dunno if I should feel sad that I killed the Last Judge to get into the Citadel

[spark valve]

she probably killed an awful lot of fairly innocent people but she's also been brainwashed

[edgy nebula]

she's an unc

destroy her

[spark valve]

so yes and no, like most of the enemies in silksong

[edgy nebula]

sk-discussion is discussing if pv can beat ll or not

what do we think

[spark valve]

probably

hk power level is higher in general especially with godmaster

pv is an endgame boss hornet with basically full gear is like a midgame boss

[edgy nebula]

true

ll probably wins against thk but not pv id say

[spark valve]

sure thk is on the verge of death a light breeze wins against it

[gentle aspen]

we not doing this shit again

[spark valve]

correct we just did it past tense

[stray grove]

It’s not even that it also only makes sense from a narrative viewpoint that PV is like way stronger than Hornet

PV’s control over soul is simply on a different level

[limpid summit]

Thanks weavers

[stray grove]

It has better lineage, it had a better teacher, and that’s without even taking Void into consideration

It also got roided up on Soul or some shit

You can clearly see its spells are more powerful and refined than reskinned soul spell #58

Vessels are also really strong in general but most of them never had any kind of training or combat experience which is the only reason Hornet is able to kill them TK is only special because it left

[spark valve]

Better lineage 🤨

[stray grove]

I mean yeah

Two pale beings vs one (admittedly goated) pale being and a common beast weaver who inherited a fraction of the strength of a pale being who probably only has the fraction of the strength of WL

Clearly it was important that the pale shell wasn’t compromised with the introduction of non god dna

Hornet is lucky to get carried by her Wyrm genes but the game likes to pretend those aren’t important

They are just the superior species there’s no way about it

Well they’re important because they make her evil or some shit

[spark valve]

They are uh gods

[stray grove]

Yeah but they’re also better than the other gods

At least the other gods who fall into the same category

[spark valve]

The one is goated they might not all be so chill

[stray grove]

They probably mostly weren’t chill but idk why you’d assume they’d be less powerful than him

[spark valve]

True

[marble oasis]

fuck no

thk vs lace 2 is the real question

[stray grove]

Oh come ON

PV CLEARS LL

THK might lose to Lace 2

[marble oasis]

wait

i meant fuck no that isn’t even a question

pv obviously wins

[surreal heron]

Sherma solos

[stray grove]

If it’s outside of the Egg it’s like not that strong

Rad is the one empowering it but it’s still a rotting corpse there’s only so much she can do

But in general most HK vs SS matchups the HK character wins because the SS power level is in the ground

Mid game boss solos entire kingdom including HB 🥀

[marble oasis]

yeah that’s why i ask

it’s a lot stronger but lace can probably dance circles around it

[stray grove]

I’m not sure it’s even that strong its body probably doesn’t work like it’s supposed to

Slapping someone in the face with someone else’s arm isn’t going to hurt as much as them punching you

[marble oasis]

only one mask of damage 🥀

[marble oasis]

thk is infected like the rest of them, radiance doesn’t start puppeting it until she lifts it up and starts slamming its body around

[stray grove]

THK isn’t infected

She can get it to slash but it’s like probably not slashing very hard and it doesn’t take long for that to completely fail

Then it starts tripping and shit and she has to ragdoll it or use infection attacks

[marble oasis]

its nail attacks are plenty swift

[marble oasis]

source

[stray grove]

What do you think the infection is

One of its defining features is that once infected you can’t rebel

Any attempt to do so only accelerates its progression

Not only does THK successfully resist Radiance its mind is also clearly intact

I mean it’s pretty fucked up mentally sure but it’s not her mind slave as it otherwise wouldn’t be able to do any of that shit including appear as a Shade in DNM

[marble oasis]

hm

[marble oasis]

the infection attacks and ragdolling are interspersed with normal attacks though

[stray grove]

That in the case of every other infected the mental manifestations are both essential and precede the physical manifestations means that THK isn’t infected

[stray grove]

Yeah which don’t work

Once you get to that phase whenever it attempts the triple slash it trips at the end

They’re also interspersed with it regaining control and fucking stabbing itself lol

[marble oasis]

you would think if it was being puppeted it wouldn’t fall to the ground in pain though

[stray grove]

That Rad has to resort to that shit is clearly because she’s losing control

Or rather because she’s desperate

She doesn’t open with those attacks

[stray grove]

It falls to the ground in pain because it’s resisting

That’s why it trips during the triple slash

She’s forcing it to carry out a motion it doesn’t want to

And the act of fighting back against her control hurts it

But it also does disrupt her attacks

When it’s not doing that it’s trying to kill itself or it’s being dragged through the air or shooting infection blobs

[marble oasis]

yeah alright

[stray grove]

Hell even the infection pillars being surrounded by void could be interpreted as THK trying to stifle her light

[marble oasis]

idk about that one

[stray grove]

I mean I’m not sure why Rad wouldn’t just summon burning infection pillars

She doesn’t use any other void attacks

[marble oasis]

I always just saw this as it’s in too much pain to continue

Its body is breaking too badly

[stray grove]

It being in pain wouldn’t matter Rad would continue having it do that until it actually broke

[marble oasis]

well she’s using thk’s body so it probably just comes out by muscle memory

[stray grove]

She has to improvise

Its soul spells are replaced with infection spells

That includes the pillars

Which are wrapped by void which she doesn’t otherwise have access to apparently

The knowledge of those techniques is probably imprinted on the shell which she has access to I agree but that’s like not the whole picture

[marble oasis]

more to the point then how would lace fare against thk if it wasn’t being puppeted by rad but still had its shell broken in the same way

[stray grove]

Well then it’s fucked innit

[marble oasis]

also yeah shell is broken so void is leaking out

but i digress

[stray grove]

I mean no void isn’t leaking out but the vessel shell also doesn’t work like that

Void from the Shade can cross the shell even when it’s intact

TK does that all the time, PV does too

But even if it were true then idk why that’d manifest in the void pillars

If Rad actually had control over the Shade then there’s no reason why she wouldn’t start spamming tendrils and vines and shit once she got to the last phase

[marble oasis]

expelling infection from inside its body -> void is also inside its body -> infection gets mixed with void

[stray grove]

But those things don’t mix

[marble oasis]

she doesn’t have control over void, only the infection juice, but it got mixed a bit when stirring it up for the void pillars

[stray grove]

None of the other infection is mixed with Void

Even the void in the pillars isn’t

It wraps around them but they are like visibly distinct

Oil and water

[marble oasis]

yeah it’s a suspension

[stray grove]

Also Shades don’t leak like that

Void isn’t actually a liquid

[marble oasis]

does the knight not leak void when it’s on 1hp

[stray grove]

It leans forward and starts to hyperventilate which causes it to seemingly exhale void particles

It doesn’t start dripping liquid void everywhere

And the risk isn’t that the void in the shell is gonna leak

It’s that the shade is gonna break out and fuck off

The shell’s job is to magically constrain the shade it’s not a water bottle

[marble oasis]

you can still leak a gas

it doesn’t matter to me whether it’s liquid or not

[stray grove]

But it’s not leaking

The shade doesn’t leak it maintains its shape even after the shell breaks

[marble oasis]

how is it hyperventilating void when it doesn’t breathe

[stray grove]

It does breathe

Void approximates biology for some reason

[edgy nebula]

“No lungs to breathe…”

[marble oasis]

Thank you bobbitt

[stray grove]

If Void didn’t approximate Vessel biology somewhat TK wouldn’t need to bend its knees when it fell from a height, nor would it need to bend forward to use its accessory muscles at low health, nor would it have “vital fluids” to replace. And if you watch the intro cutscene you can actually see that THK doesn’t consist of a solid lump of Void, the Shade actually has weird connective tissues and shit

[marble oasis]

Huh?

The shade has connective tissue?

[stray grove]

Yeah idk why or what that’s about but you can rewatch it if you don’t believe me

Oh right TK also sees with its eyes and can eat and shit so on and so forth

If Void wasn’t approximating biology even things like it turning to look around at stuff wouldn’t make a lot of sense

[marble oasis]

this stuff?

that’s weird as

i never thought about that

also are we assuming the knight came to hallownest directly after that outburst or was there a while in between where it had to make its way back

[stray grove]

I mean some time probably passes between the “call from beyond the seals” and it actually arriving

[edgy nebula]

hey rotk i think ive asked you before but what do you think happened to karak for the water to disappear

[stray grove]

The call is what beckoned it to the kingdom but it still had to walk there

[marble oasis]

wrong. boat

[stray grove]

Sailing through a sea of sorrow…

[marble oasis]

Yeah, I think I like the sound of that…

[stray grove]

No idea! Could be any number of things really

One would assume it was the downstream effect of the shit the Citadel was doing in the region

[edgy nebula]

or well i suppose the question im asking is when you think karak fell

e.g pre-conductors, post-conductors

[stray grove]

When it fell is not clear and imo kind of a weird question when the game sort of makes a point about it not being important

But it dried up post conductors

[marble oasis]

I think it was quite late all things considered

[stray grove]

Because of the specimens we see in Memorium

[edgy nebula]

what makes you think that?

i feel like that’s possible, but the only bug in memorium that really helps with the point are crustcrags

[spark valve]

Which kind of seal the deal all on their own

[marble oasis]

yeah, which are bred from a creature that’s not there post drying

[edgy nebula]

they do directly say water’s source is lost in their ndd

[heavy gyro]

The memorium itself implies that it dried after the citadel, because why would the bugs need to remember an environment they never knew if it dried before the citadel

[spark valve]

doesn't change anything

water's source is lost now yes

[edgy nebula]

fair enough

[warm turtle]

https://youtu.be/n7JNN-xz5Pc?si=QAiEBOG2FskBRgqB idk just wanted to share some content

[stray grove]

Braindead easy crest let’s have a real challenge next time thanks

Modded GMS hitless with reaper now that’s a good one

[marble oasis]

Absolute weaver silk?

[stray grove]

Yeah whatever that was called

[gentle aspen]

Citadel drained it for steam power

[marble oasis]

Is your name rotk

[gentle aspen]

kirb didn’t answer the question

[marble oasis]

he did he said he didn’t know

[marble oasis]

Because this is what I believe but it’s not a given

[gentle aspen]

I know

[stray grove]

Also I literally suggested the exact thing you said was a viable possibility

Everyone wanna be me huh

[marble oasis]

NO ONE wanna be you twin 😭 ✌️

[gentle aspen]

I should finish writing

bye guys

[marble oasis]

Good bye forever dear jonkler

[stray grove]

Good riddance

[warm turtle]

https://youtu.be/0Uw9Re0g9Sg?si=f4ymSXxPxuCUeyz5

This guy?

She looks not hard tbh

The thing is she spams at times random bs at unreactable speed to dodge so you just heal that and move on

Or parry which may work for hitless

The guy playing gets a hit a lot tbh and yet he won the fight pretty straightforward without even knowing all that much what’s going on

It’s also funny because the random stuff she spams it’s so aleatory chances are it won’t even hit you

[marble oasis]

Ntm on big cranky please

[limber anvil]

my record is 3 hits... (but that was also toolless)

[graceful grail]

Why does lace call Hornet a Spider??

How is spider a word when Weaver is the actual word

Nobody else says spider

[stray fog]

Weavers are a type of spider

[silk dirge]

literally the weavers themselves:

[graceful grail]

Actually, thats true

Sister, spider

[upbeat fog]

Weavers and spiders are the same thing

[gentle aspen]

because…weavers are spiders

[graceful grail]

So, Pharlids are spiders?? Or is spider from GMS

[gentle aspen]

they’re not

[stray fog]

Both

[gentle aspen]

weavers are a kind of spider

[graceful grail]

Where did GMS come from

[stray fog]

Gms is spider like
Pharlids are spiders

[gentle aspen]

bug magic

[stray fog]

Not known

[graceful grail]

Who first found out how to turn soul into silk

[upbeat fog]

It also is kind of how hornet calls the knight, ghost

[stray fog]

Gms is the primal source of silk

Soul infused silk

[graceful grail]

Soul is silk

Silk is soul

[stray fog]

The one gms uses, yes

[graceful grail]

Pale being = soul connection

[stray fog]

People say that other bugs also use silk, but its normal silk

[gentle aspen]

again, a bit of a misrepresentation of things here

[stray fog]

Idk which ones

[gentle aspen]

Silk is a form of soul

[graceful grail]

Duh

[gentle aspen]

then don’t say “soul is silk”

[graceful grail]

…

[gentle aspen]

not a rectangle square type thing here

well it actually is I misspoke

[graceful grail]

Are GMS and PK related?? Kuz both pale beings?? Or is pale being just a soul connected being??

[stray fog]

I don't think they're related

[gentle aspen]

no

their power comes from similar sources

They’re as related as the pale king and the radiance

[stray fog]

Pale beings just exist somehow
But they aren't a family or anything

[graceful grail]

Thats not confirmed

[stray fog]

Yes, but it is never indicated either

[gentle aspen]

It doesn’t really need to be confirmed

we’re shown several pale beings that aren’t related

[upbeat fog]

I like how in silksong pharloom and hallownest have different names for for the same thing like how it is in real life:
plasmium and lifeblood
Runes and seals
Pale beings and higher beings

[gentle aspen]

the term pale beings existed in the first game too

[stray fog]

Pale beings and higher beings are not the same

[gentle aspen]

they’re also not the same thing as regular higher beings

Pale beings are beings tied to soul and usually are powerful

not every pale being is a higher being

[gentle aspen]

ie.) Hornet and the vessels aren’t higher beings normally

[stray fog]

Lace too

[upbeat fog]

I didn’t know that do you remember when they mentioned it

[gentle aspen]

Vespa

[random harbor]

Vespa - Hive - First Encounter

My Knight... At last you are freed.
Small thing. I know your kind.
If you attempt to resolve your past then know I am not the queen you seek.
It is the pale beings that bear blame for your nature.
Though this hive exists within Hallownest, we play no part in its attempt at perpetuation.

@kingoclowns used /npcs spirits name: Vespa category: Hive dialogue: First Encounter

[gentle aspen]

whatshisface also calls the knight a pale thing

[upbeat fog]

Oh I see

[stray fog]

Tiso

[gentle aspen]

Yeah

[zealous canyon]

@fleet ermine hornet prob got kidnapped right after thk ending so its stilll possible its canon

[gentle aspen]

Silksong can’t take place after The Hollow Knight ending

[fleet ermine]

possible but unlikely considering pantheon endings and dnm

[gentle aspen]

the Knight has void heart in silksong

[upbeat fog]

I remember before silksong came out someone theorized tiso was from pharloom

[zealous canyon]

but the knight isnt shown untill act 3s ending, which also isnt the true canon of sk

[gentle aspen]

that is irrelevant

[stray fog]

I remember a theory like that, but I don't remember what the reasoning was

[gentle aspen]

the events of the game require void heart to be in their possession

you also baselessly asserted “true canon” like that’s something that exists or has been confirmed in any way shape or form

[zealous canyon]

im saying any ending could be canon to sk

[gentle aspen]

And that’s simply untrue

It cannot be the ending you purported

[upbeat fog]

I think because he had black skin like some of the creatures of pharloom

[gentle aspen]

The Knight has void heart

[stray fog]

😭

There's gotta be more evidence than that

[upbeat fog]

That was all they had

[zealous canyon]

how couldnt thk ending be canon to gms endings if the knight isnt even mention

[spark valve]

people have said not every character explicitly from hallownest was from pharloom

[gentle aspen]

black skin like 99% of the population of bugs ingame?

[stray fog]

Grimm troupe = grim reaper = greymoor citizens type of theory

[upbeat fog]

Oh and he wasn’t from hallownest

[gentle aspen]

You realize that “the gms endings” are simply things that occur earlier in silksong yes

[upbeat fog]

Does this mean he can say the word

[gentle aspen]

funny joke to tell to the only black moderator on the team.

[tawdry flare]

Dawko gif

[upbeat fog]

I’m black

[gentle aspen]

ok

not appropriate here

[zealous canyon]

but gms still exists in act 3, in gms endings she shouldnt still be there

[gentle aspen]

I don’t think you get it

[spark valve]

no part of this means anything

[gentle aspen]

The fact that the Knight in an ending that occurs later in the story has Void Heart

means that any ending that has the Knight not have Void Heart cannot be canon to Silksong

Because it is a sequel to the first game

[upbeat fog]

Yes that is a major plot point of act 3

[upbeat fog]

I don’t get why I see people say it isn’t a sequel when team cherry says it is

[zealous canyon]

ima just end it off there since i dont want to argue, i just needed to know why the other ending cant be canon

[upbeat fog]

I’m pretty sure the sister of void ending is the true ending

[young bolt]

Silksong is void

[tawdry flare]

there are no “true endings”

well technically there is in the sense that Silksong could take place after two or three of Hollow Knight’s but whatever

[gentle aspen]

well, three

[zealous canyon]

mushroom

[gentle aspen]

sealed siblings dream no more and embrace the void are all viable

mister mushroom is said to be able to happen regardless so it doesn’t count

[spark valve]

ok let's not pretend ss is as viable as the other two which sotv directly acknowledges

[tawdry flare]

SEALED SIBLINGS IS BACK ON THE TABLE

[upbeat fog]

So it is like hollow knight with no true ending

[spark valve]

sealed siblings is technically possible but so obviously not the intent

[upbeat fog]

How

[tawdry flare]

Read

[zealous canyon]

what if the citadel bugs break in the black egg and steal hornet

[tawdry flare]

?tag info jokerpsa

[limpid summit]

Only if we can extrapolate that there’s something capable of breaking an extremely powerful seal from a silkfly breaking a seal made from the silk of the mother of the person directing it

Which is to say

It’s hard to argue

[spark valve]

you don't need any of that

you just need enough time

silksong has to take place far enough in the future for the knight's seal to break

[limpid summit]

In enough time radiance kills everyone including Hornet

[spark valve]

there's a sweet spot or something

[limpid summit]

“All minds relinquished to that plague except of course the protagonist of our sequel game”

[spark valve]

is this not exactly the kind of thing silksong would do

[limpid summit]

True…

Lifeblood is taboo unless you seed the land with it then it’s the Infection

Unifies all the void under the bearer’s will within 20 feet or less

[tawdry flare]

That’s generous

[spark valve]

The only means we have to resist

WL’s dementia really set in on that one huh

[limpid summit]

Canonically the 3 misspellings imply she’s got a few screws loose

[stray fog]

She also has mood swings about the troupe

[upbeat fog]

Read what part

[tawdry flare]

too late I already forgot

[upbeat fog]

Oh dang

[muted lantern]

By the time of silksong do yall think grimmchild has become a full grown grimm, or does he need multiple kingdoms worth of power to reach his full size, and hed still be younger/smaller by the time of silksong (though bigger than he was by the and of the last game)

[limpid summit]

Probably the former right

I assume it’s one Grimmchild a kingdom

If he creates a new one and dies then and there

[muted lantern]

Id assume? it seems like we completed the ritual, but we don't really know how long his lifespan is per cycle

[limpid summit]

“To consume the flames of a kingdom’s fall”

[muted lantern]

He certainly doesnt look fully grown by the end of the ritual, but maybe with the power he'll just grow the rest of the way with time?

[limpid summit]

I guess it would only make sense if

• there wasn’t that much time, relative to NMH, between HK and SS
• NMH has multiple Grimms working at once and our Grimmchild just hasn’t had to die yet

[limpid summit]

Yeah that’s what I assume

WL acts like it’s just time that will lead Grimmchild to grow up

Assumedly NMH gives it a growth spurt once it’s contained inside

[graceful flicker]

Assuming you have however many troupes, and one fails, NMH permanantly has one less?

So I'd imagine there'd be a way to make more Grimms, although my only evidence is this

So idk

and I'm not sure that Team Cherry thought out a full cycle, though maybe they did

[limpid summit]

Yeah that’s true

[muted lantern]

I wonder how long it would take, probably less time than between the two games. Though it would be funny if we meet grimm again in silksong and hes a teenager instead of the awesome intimidating vampire guy we know.

[limpid summit]

Either NMH has a few at a time or it can survive not eating a kingdom for a minute

[limpid summit]

I hope Grimm acts different

I wouldn’t like it to just be the same dude essentially

[graceful flicker]

Grimms going through mood swings and has a weird voice because of puberty

[muted lantern]

It would be cool if grimms personality was different each iteration. Maybe his theme will change from a carnival to a theater troupe to fit with the vibes of pharloom.

[graceful flicker]

Trobbio grimm >:)

Grimm works with Trobbio and theres a really cool duo battle

[muted lantern]

I wonder how different each grimm is. Do they all look/act the same, or do they have completely different identities and personalities just having the same memories, kinda like the doctor who doctor iterations.

[limpid summit]

I’m 90% sure Trobbio is going to join the troupe

There’s no point in not just killing him like enraged guardian

Hornet has done worse

Keeping his story alive for one of the most well received characters in HK makes sense

[spark valve]

he's a goofy guy why kill him now

[muted lantern]

Tammo do you think grimms iterations are all carbon copies of one another or are different people with the same memories kinda like doctor whos iterations. I find the latter more interesting but idk if it could work in canon.

[limpid summit]

Well same memories it would all be NMH to an extent

[spark valve]

it doesn't really seem like grimm has a lot of individuality

[stray fog]

Isnt grimm the heart itself

[limpid summit]

The Grimms at least have autonomy to a degree and aren’t just puppets like the Grimmkin

[graceful flicker]

Maybe they adjust to appeal to the kingdom or its remaining inhabitants, but we really don't know a lot about him

[limpid summit]

But we don’t know how deep that goes once it absorbs NMH

WL seems to create a divide

But then immediately goes back on it

[limpid summit]

Clan and master yeah

But the Grimmchild has to be something before NKG

[muted lantern]

I guess my question is the latter possible or does it contradict the lore

[limpid summit]

It’s not just a robot or puppet

[limpid summit]

Doesn’t contradict the lore I would say

[muted lantern]

i don't recall enough of the exact hk text

[spark valve]

it isn't explicitly contradicted or anything

[limpid summit]

We know NMH is flashy and showy

It could totally change theme based on the kingdom

[marble oasis]

why would the troupe come though

pharloom isn’t dead

[limpid summit]

He doesn’t think there will be epilogue dlc

Also by act 3 it’s totally dead

[robust wagon]

Not really, there's still two entire towns

& the fleas

[edgy nebula]

i could see it coming to collect the nightmare energy of the fallen kingdoms

karak, verdania, etc

[stray fog]

Hallownest also had mantises, fools, dirtmouth, and grubs

[oak palm]

OH MY GOD BRAH

[limpid summit]

“They fancied themselves ‘old hearts’…There is only one ‘old heart’, Wyrm child. Remember that.”

[oak palm]

Dude this pmo why are people GENUINELY so obsessed with trying to shoehorn the troupe In

[limpid summit]

Look

I wouldn’t like it

[oak palm]

The burning bugs are related to the troupe!!! Trobbio is going to joins the troupe!!!

Like shut upop

[limpid summit]

I think you can count the good SS fan service things on one hand

But if they made lifeblood infection they’re bringing GT back

[oak palm]

This would be ass fanservice the troupe has no real reason to come back

Do you want every other dlc to be a rehash of the HK ones

[limpid summit]

This is how most people would have responded dto TK in Silksong though right

[limpid summit]

No ofc not

Sea of Sorrows is going to be a Lifeblood DLC

That’s just how it is

[oak palm]

It shows up in a single ending

And does nothing else

[limpid summit]

The ending

The true ending at the culmination of 1/3 of the game

TK in Silksong didn’t need to happen

Steel DLC will be peak and stand alone without fanservice though

[oak palm]

Lifeblood is like a single substance that was only barely acknowledged in the og game I do not think it is comparable to the troupe

[edgy nebula]

lion village WILL be the best dlc

[oak palm]

Lion village feels like it's going to be just like a quarter of some dlc.idk

[limpid summit]

It was acknowledged as “taboo” and a fun little weird substance

[oak palm]

Compare that to how the girmm troupe was portrayed

They genuinely have no reason to come back

[limpid summit]

Lifeblood infection was entirely unplanned and ridiculous

[oak palm]

Not related to what I'm trying to say

[robust wagon]

Fools are infected, grubs aren't civilised, Dirtmouth is the only town, but I'll give you the mantises

[dreamy onyx]

Yeah, and now we know why it's taboo

Pale King stopped its spread before shit got out of hand

[limpid summit]

But that’s not what taboo means

Taboo is like traditionally frowned upon or avoided

Salubra talks about it like it’s a regular old drug

[oak palm]

I mean most drugs can fuck you up

[limpid summit]

In Silksong it’s insane

And Hornet says she saw similar aberrations in Hallownest

[dreamy onyx]

I mean if it never took off to the point of people knowing what it could do then

[limpid summit]

Bro where

Joni’s corpse isn’t a core like Zylotol’s

[oak palm]

It has vines sprouting out of it I think at least

[dreamy onyx]

Maybe due to her size she just didn't consume enough?

[oak palm]

Not necessarily saying I think lifeblood infection was planned back then but I think it is an alright expansion to it

[limpid summit]

It has vines all around it iirc

[dreamy onyx]

Also the Infection I think it's pretty clear she means the Infection

[limpid summit]

And Joni’s post death dialogue talks about like peace and serenity

Completely different from the vibe Lifeblood gives off

[limpid summit]

No she means lifeblood

She talks about how the monsters came out of Hallownest where Lifeblood was allowed to grow wild

[dreamy onyx]

Wh

No??

[limpid summit]

In my home caves, when once this substance was allowed to flourish, I saw similar aberrations.

[muted lantern]

How many doess of lifeblood does it take to mutate?

[limpid summit]

You think she’s just talking about infected bugs coincidentally?

[dreamy onyx]

I mean doesn't she talk about how Lifeblood reminds her of the infection

Also it could've been wiped out

Like a lot of this isn't that game breaking

[limpid summit]

Yes

She’s also like maybe I’m imagining things

[stray fog]

Are fools infected? Im talking about the audience in the colosseum

[limpid summit]

This is obviously her saying “yeah Lifeblood created infected monsters too”

[stray fog]

Not the warriors

[limpid summit]

When Salubra and Ellina don’t allude to that at all

Sure they didn’t take a ton

But it’s still an insane extrapolation

They wouldn’t introduce a Soul infection from fusing too many ancient masks with your shell

[dreamy onyx]

I mean they were experimenting with it weren't they

It's probably not a casual thing like how Elina and Salubra consumed it

[stray fog]

Its weird because I thought they had a lifeblood infection planned from the beginning

Hk already had parallels between the 2 infections, and ss added more parallels

[limpid summit]

There weren’t any real parallels

Lightseeds and Lifeseeds are sort of similar

But they look pretty different and are fairly different things

Now whatever it’s done

Still out of nowhere

[marble oasis]

She says it reminds her of infections past

Referring to both the Infection and lifeblood disease

[strange hazel]

i have a question

[limpid summit]

Ask away

[marble oasis]

Don’t ask

[marble oasis]

probably

[stray fog]

The ones in the hot spring aren't infected

And neither is little fool

[muted lantern]

How much lifeblood does it take to mutate?

[marble oasis]

Why do you say that

[limpid summit]

The ones in the hot spring don’t attack you they’re just jerks

[stray fog]

They seem pretty intelligent

• no orange eyes iirc

[limpid summit]

They’re probably not infected

[marble oasis]

none of them have orange eyes they’re wearing helmets

[limpid summit]

I assume watching the trials would throw you into a fervor that would make you more susceptible thkuf

[stray fog]

Probably a lot, considering that salubra doesn't get mutated

[strange hazel]

so WHAT would happen if a weaver accidentally has a child with another species? are they just like done for or

[marble oasis]

what do you mean done for

[limpid summit]

Weavers did have children with other species

It’s just hard for them to

There are notes in the cradle about 1/4 weavers and 1/8 weavers

[edgy nebula]

reproduction is just painful/hard for them

[strange hazel]

a weaver usually cannot survive pregnancy due to its insane pain and high risk,

if one has a child, are they basically done for?

[marble oasis]

Nah

[stray fog]

We dont know about survival during pregnancy
We just know that its hard to have children

[marble oasis]

Herrah lived just fine

[edgy nebula]

no, herrah ws fine

[strange hazel]

ah, i was misled by a theoyr

[marble oasis]

Its less about surviving pregnancy and more about conceiving in the first place

[strange hazel]

theory

[marble oasis]

fuckk

[muted lantern]

Also is it possible that lifeblood is somehow a different strain in pharloom? it seems to be all about like rapid evolution so maybe the lifeblood in this region developed differently? the lifeseeds in pharloom do have wings after all

[limpid summit]

“Shout out weavers”

[dreamy onyx]

Could be

[edgy nebula]

iirc winged lifeseeds existed in hk concept art, they just were never added

[dreamy onyx]

I'm sure our questions will be answered in Sea of Sorrow... whenever that comes out

[limpid summit]

Maybe and that would almost make it okay if the game didn’t try to convince you that Lifeblood was always like that

[edgy nebula]

it being a different strain is possible though

[limpid summit]

If Hornet just said shit like wow I saw that in Hallownest sure whatever

[edgy nebula]

tc might be trying to imply that with the lifeseeds

[limpid summit]

“I saw that substance mutate bugs all over” WHERE

[strange hazel]

i wonder if were going to get male weavers? like maybe after weaver queen hornet could take the male pharlids and make them weavers aswell?

[edgy nebula]

lifeblood is so stupid if it can reanimate corpses joni is right there

[stray fog]

Would hornet want to do that?

[marble oasis]

no

we’re not gonna get any post weaver queen content

[muted lantern]

Perhaps if you use lifeblood in proper moderation like joni the effects are less catastrophic

[strange hazel]

im mainly asking if it could happen

[dreamy onyx]

They could've just been a while ago tbf there's nothing that states PK didn't just wipe out infected Lifeblood bugs

[strange hazel]

i definetly worded it wrong but

[marble oasis]

also it’s possible gms did uplift male pharlids and forcefemmed them, we just don’t know

[edgy nebula]

i doubt we'd get male weavers, or that weaver queen hornet would make new weavers at all

[muted lantern]

Maybe joni was microdosing lifeblood her whole life

[dreamy onyx]

Crazy sentence

[edgy nebula]

both gms and hornet know more weavers would betray them

[marble oasis]

But not inaccurate!

[edgy nebula]

its more likely she'd make more silken children, if children at all

[oak palm]

I just assume gms deliberately avoided male pharlids

[edgy nebula]

she might just bring pilgrims into her hivemind instead

[dreamy onyx]

Also yeah almost certainly no male Weavers unless they're explicitly different and unassociated with the Weavers in Pharlooms

[muted lantern]

I think the only possibility for male weavers would be if one of gms's weavers was transmasc which could be interesting.

[marble oasis]

“If I rebuild Weaver society you’re not gonna turn on me again right”
“Haha no lady Hornet of course not…”

[oak palm]

What if every pharlid left is a male and every female was Silked or some shit

[dreamy onyx]

Maybe all the Pharlids were female and just. didn't care and had children anyway

[stray fog]

Would the pharlids have survived until the events of silksong if that was true?

[edgy nebula]

the male weavers say, hiding the huge silkshot in their backpocket

[oak palm]

Trans members of a one sex race are usually an interesting idea

[oak palm]

Probably not actually

[strange hazel]

there'd be no pharlids

only (subjectively) better ones

[edgy nebula]

is there a lore reason as to why grand mother silk only wants daughters actually?

[muted lantern]

Gms sent all the boy pharlids to jupiter to get more stupider.

[oak palm]

Maybe it's like those lesbian lizards where they reproduce asexually but have to partake in simulated mating but no preference for that

[muted lantern]

She wanted to make children in her image i imagine

[edgy nebula]

makes sense

[strange hazel]

for lace and phantom its because their her silk

so they biologically have to be female

and for the weaver its either dna altering of the sample of pharlids to be entirely female

[strange hazel]

or just this aswell if she chose that

anyway

im confused what a weaver without silk would be

[edgy nebula]

i wonder if karak's river is magical at all

[stray fog]

"rest in peace my granny she got hit by a bazooka"

[edgy nebula]

there are magic blue flames in khann's throneroom

[strange hazel]

since i assume if a pharlid and weaver had a child it'd just be a weaver without silk or a pharlid that uses silk, yes?

[graceful grail]

Why does Lace not care that you kill Phantom??

[muted lantern]

She might not know

also she knows phantom is going to die anyway.

plus lace herself wants to die

[strange hazel]

yknow

why does lace hate herself?

[edgy nebula]

itd probably just be a smaller weaver with a cracked head like first sinners', cause her's is underdeveloped

[strange hazel]

oh cool

[edgy nebula]

but i dont think itd actually be real cause pharlids are too animalistic

[muted lantern]

I mean theres quite a few reasons, mostly to due with the nature of her creation and the fact that she doesnt see a life without her mother, but cant bear life with her

[strange hazel]

i actually assumed it was more likely due to the species being closely related tbh

like how in real life species can only crossbreed with close relatives

for example wolves with dogs

[graceful grail]

I think GMS made lace childish because children are naturally dependent on their parent.

[strange hazel]

yknow what i find weird

[muted lantern]

Yeah, that and she probably just wanted a kid that would never outgrow her

[strange hazel]

how does eternal life of a being that doesnt reset itself work?

[muted lantern]

wym?

[strange hazel]

like wouldnt you decompose after a while?

oh right

[graceful grail]

I dont think Lace liked that fact though.

[strange hazel]

you are actively decomposing

NEVERMIND

[muted lantern]

I agree, never argued otherwise lol.

[strange hazel]

also

does lace start eventually decomposing after silksong due to GMS' lack of silk for her?

[edgy nebula]

hornet can make infinite silk

[muted lantern]

Without hornets help yes

[edgy nebula]

but yeah without hornet she'd die

[strange hazel]

oh right hornet

or any other weaver that somehow managed to survive

[edgy nebula]

normal weavers wouldnt be permanent

[strange hazel]

as if im correct they also regenerate silk, yes?

ah

[edgy nebula]

their silk wanes eventually and they presumably die

[muted lantern]

they probably die of old age too since we see so many mummified weavers

[strange hazel]

i misinterpreted widow's journal entry

[edgy nebula]

well widow would live much longer

cause she cant use her silk

[strange hazel]

yeah i knew that

anyway

does hornet have a fluffy coat under her mask? i want to know because weavers do and i'd be absolutely obsesssed with fluffy hornet

[graceful grail]

Did trobbio get his attire inspiration from Seth??

[muted lantern]

I imagine not? but who knows what weavers look like under there, maybe something more spiderlike, but since hornet doesnt seem fluffy anwhere else i doubt her head would be.

[edgy nebula]

we dont know

[muted lantern]

I think its just a style of clothing

[edgy nebula]

trobbio used to be "the master of the stage, brush, and voice" and seth was connected to "the voice" in early content teasers, so it's possible they were connected

but now they dont seem to have any connection at all

[strange hazel]

pretty sure weavers have fluffy coats based on widow and pharlids

[muted lantern]

Imagine seth being trobbios bodyguard lol

[muted lantern]

Pharlids arent fluffy at all tho

[strange hazel]

anyway- WAIT THATS NOT JUST A COAT?

[strange hazel]

huh?

i remember pharlids being fluffy,,

[strange hazel]

prob mandela effect

[muted lantern]

they are just regular ol buggies

[halcyon merlin]

everyone stole from trobbio

[edgy nebula]

it's possible they hve fur under their masks, we only see widow but she might be wearing some type of cloth

[muted lantern]

the weavers have spikes on their shoulders and hips which people might mistake for fluff but its just spikes

[edgy nebula]

id say it's possible

[strange hazel]

sorry i got mandela effected

[strange hazel]

that s attire?

man i am really dumb

[edgy nebula]

seems to just be a fur cloak of some sort

[strange hazel]

i honestly though that was fur

[edgy nebula]

we know seth can take it off so i imagine trobbio can too

[strange hazel]

when seth takes it off doesnt he lose his memory though?

i havent fought seth so he's kind of a grey area for me

[muted lantern]

I think those two things are coincidental i dont think he loses his memory bc the cloak

[graceful grail]

Not a popular opinion, but i personally think Trobbio isnt rly a Butterfly.

Just imo

[muted lantern]

his wings look more like a dragonfly don't they?

[graceful grail]

They change size to

[strange hazel]

come to think of it

they look oddly translucent

pretty sure butterflies dont have that

[graceful grail]

Wings changing size —

And shape, maybe they are fake

Or its an art choice…

[strange hazel]

also

how do his wings "coincidentally"

match his eyes?

[graceful grail]

And color

[strange hazel]

oh yeah..

also how do his eyes change

[graceful grail]

I do like how his antennas are a heart ❤️

[strange hazel]

does he use like contacts or something?

i mean it'd make sense why they match act 1 trobbio more than act 2 trobbio though

okay

new trobbio theory:

[graceful grail]

He used this for act 3

[strange hazel]

oh so he saw THK do it.

[muted lantern]

trobbio probably dyes his wings and wears colored contacts/ the funnier explanation where those are two weirdly shaped monocles

[strange hazel]

yeah the eye color for act 2 trobbio confused me when i noticed it

[graceful grail]

Yeah, but the eyes do change shape on multiple occasions. So unfortunately its not that

[strange hazel]

it looked like it was his normal eyes but like tinted purple or something

[graceful grail]

His eyes could be reflecting the color purple in act 3

All the mist

[strange hazel]

well masks change shape too im pretty sure

mainly with the eyelids

[graceful grail]

Who could do that again??

I mean where do we se it

[strange hazel]

uh

uh...

John silk left the immediate area.

[graceful grail]

Even when hornet is unconscious she dosent close her eyes

[graceful grail]

Karmaletta has her eyes closed

[strange hazel]

anyway

[strange hazel]

karmelita is not wearing a mask?

im not sure how we get in

though, so let me check

[muted lantern]

Why does the fandom so commonly assume flea brew is alchohol. nectar seems to be the alchohol of the setting and flea brews main effect is giving you a ton of energy and speed. its way more likely something super caffinated like an energy drink or coffee.

or some types of tea

Plus they give flea brew to the baby fleas

[strange hazel]

i never assumed it was alcohol tbh

i thought it was like

chai or something, prob wrong but like

it could also be a type of soda based off of bubble-like imagery.

[muted lantern]

The funniest explanation i've thought of is that since the fleas are carnivorous its like carbonated bone broth full of caffiene powder.

[summer vigil]

Because Hornet throws an empty bottle as a projectile like a drunk uncle.
So the memes came in

[strange hazel]

also are we SURE that kratt puts no cameras at the bottom of the hot spring?