sk-lore

[oak palm]

Or something

[sinful nimbus]

Death of the author

[oak palm]

That is the view several people hold abt the whole gender stuff yeah

[sinful nimbus]

I meant we should literally kill ari gibson for debunking my headcanon but that works ig

[oak palm]

I See

[frosty gate]

Star let's start a coup

We only leave Chris alive

And maybe Jack idk how to code

[oak palm]

Jack Vine is fake

[gentle aspen]

nah fuck the music guy for good measure

[oak palm]

Apparently the whole gender list that was extremely controversial back then was also verified to have been sent to Leth by translators?

The one that like confirmed female phantom and lugoli, and non-binary moss druid

It still can't be added to the wiki for similar reasons

[sinful nimbus]

Lorien Testard could easily playtest radiant Lost Kin

[gentle aspen]

no

[sinful nimbus]

The gender list could be real its just not really proof of much

[frosty gate]

I'm being silenced!!!!

[gentle aspen]

It’s nsfw gng

Of real people

[oak palm]

Ig it just counts as a TC statement

But it's too private to be cited on the wiki

It's in like a whole legal grey area

[frosty gate]

Why?

[median forge]

Y'all think we could get a troupe of opposite nature to the Grimm troupe

[frosty gate]

Daydream troupe

[oak palm]

Can't be publically shared cuz of its nature

So they can't cite it

[median forge]

Pharloom looks like it's reviving after all

[frosty gate]

What's that nature like

[oak palm]

It's like in a legal grey area, under NDA and stuff, it was only meant to be for translators

I think

[sinful nimbus]

Development stuff generally isn't considered canon and its mostly just a result of certain languages requiring characters to be gendered

[oak palm]

Former is true

But it does have neutral characters

[median forge]

Lowkey fire

[oak palm]

Like the moss druid

[sinful nimbus]

Weird

[oak palm]

And the automatons

[frosty gate]

That's crazy what

[frosty gate]

I guess that's true. I do wonder if they're ever going to say anything about it

Not that it's needed

I feel like if they say Phantom is indeed a woman, the seas will burn

[oak palm]

Is there even going to be another ama or what

[oak palm]

True

[frosty gate]

They're too big for us now 🥀

[sinful nimbus]

The greed has consumed them

[dire lynx]

we need a wanderers journal, thats where we got jinn and jiji gender

[frosty gate]

Release the Gender Files

[dire lynx]

probably others as well

[oak palm]

I feel like the least problematic response we could get is something like "Phantom was intended to female but we don't discourage any headcanons"

[gentle aspen]

not for you peasants

only for us glorious moderators

[oak palm]

Bone Scroll

[sinful nimbus]

Patching out all the glitches to make the game as broadly appealing as possible while gradually increasing their prices despite game quality going down... Is this the next Nintendo?

[dire lynx]

i meant the merch one, not in game item

[oak palm]

The book will be called Bone Scroll

[frosty gate]

The fine print says "Please don't kill us"

[oak palm]

Is what I am conveying

[gentle aspen]

probably not

[sinful nimbus]

Weren't the AMAs that confirmed that before WJ

[oak palm]

Yeah I doubt it lmao but it would be funny

[gentle aspen]

I don’t think they’d make another book with an unrelated author whose journey so happens to coincide with Hornet’s

[dire lynx]

maybe?

[sinful nimbus]

TC has a track record of making up enby representation on thbe spot tbh

[oak palm]

I think they were

[dire lynx]

didnt know abt the ama

[oak palm]

It's what's cited on the wiki

[gentle aspen]

they’d probably take either Hornet’s musings or like, Shakra’s map notes etc

[sinful nimbus]

"Yeah suuuure we totally confirmed TK was genderless in the game"

Actual liars 😭

[frosty gate]

Fake shit but tbf that makes sense for me

[oak palm]

I mean it's what was intended. At least

[dire lynx]

tk is only ever it or they in game, no?

[frosty gate]

PV too

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah that made its gender ambiguous

[gentle aspen]

by people who don’t know em yeah

[dire lynx]

white lady an mask maker

[oak palm]

It

[gentle aspen]

mask maker don’t know em

And White Lady’s also like

[oak palm]

Oh I missed the it

[sinful nimbus]

White Lady was 100% talking about sex lets be fr 💔

[gentle aspen]

consistently wrong about the nature of vessels

[frosty gate]

She can't help it

[sinful nimbus]

Why would all vessels lack a gender

[dire lynx]

maskmaker has the sight

[sinful nimbus]

Mask Maker isn't the one who says it thats midwife

[marble oasis]

Hornet perfectly genders everyone she meets first try

[frosty gate]

They can't develop any if you kill the fetus early

[oak palm]

Dying and being filled with void deletes your gender I guess

[gentle aspen]

didn’t know the sight lets you see gender

[sinful nimbus]

Void getting rid of sex makes sense

[marble oasis]

It deletes your organs so yeah

[sinful nimbus]

But gender not so much

[gentle aspen]

TC just conflated sex and gender and later clarified they meant gender its fine guys you don’t need to retroactive it

[marble oasis]

They are definitely sexless

[oak palm]

Perhaps it affects the brain

[frosty gate]

I mean

How can you give yourself a gender

[gentle aspen]

I don’t think they have brains

[frosty gate]

If you literally cant speak

[gentle aspen]

The same way anyone gets gender

Socialization

[sinful nimbus]

Mute people...........

[frosty gate]

The one we do so much in game??????

[gentle aspen]

vessels undergo socialization gng

[sinful nimbus]

Cmon what is this mental gymnastics 😭

[gentle aspen]

everyone does

[frosty gate]

All our convos are one sided and people keep talking to us

[sinful nimbus]

They just conflated two words

[gentle aspen]

it comes free with your “interacting with other sapient beings”

[frosty gate]

When I see TK doing sign language im gonna actually lose it

[dire lynx]

no fingers to sign suffering

(ignore thk)

[frosty gate]

Gender given Focus

Ngl all gender discussions are usually so dumb because at the end of it all who tf cares

I just correct the Phantom one because it literally isn't what the game sense

But if TC says "Yeah they're nb" its like yeah sure

[sinful nimbus]

Its not a big deal I just thought it was funny

[twilit crest]

How does the ability to speak prevent one from gaining a gender identity

[twilit crest]

Tbf we don’t know who the speaker is in the scene a lot of people like citing

[frosty gate]

The one who isn't in a vat of liquid 🥀

[frosty gate]

I mean that's true, but how would we know if TK doesn't speak

[dire lynx]

phantom is inside a vat that other scrapped entities called sleepers were also inside of 💔

[twilit crest]

Are the vats sound insulated?

[frosty gate]

I'm not doing this, I wanna play Hytale

[twilit crest]

Doin what 😭

[sinful nimbus]

Actually that aligns with the needolin dialogue

glrglg She spun us to fade...
She spun us to break... *bubble sound effects*
Why us, sister? grlglgrg
Why us? *coughing sounds*

[frosty gate]

IM DEAD

[twilit crest]

That’s genuinely not an impossible theory

And we know lace can project her thoughts directly into the mind of Hornet. Who’s to say this ability isn’t shared with phantom

[gentle aspen]

lace was there to wax poetic about her situation and phantom is lowkenuinely fucking drowning in there

[sinful nimbus]

Don't feed the trolls guys 🥀

[twilit crest]

And if you look at the design of a character like phantom, melodramatic dialogue is kind of baked in

[sinful nimbus]

Diving Bell spider technique

[twilit crest]

What did I do to you 😭

[dire lynx]

imaginary technique, air bubble

[sinful nimbus]

waitwaitwiat why the HECK was the deep docks diving bell not a diving bell spider pun

You could flesh out weaver tech

Garbage worldbuilding skills

[dire lynx]

because it wasnt built by weavers

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah it should've been

[dire lynx]

diving bell

its made of forgedaughters deceased mother

[marble oasis]

How did they get down there then

[dire lynx]

for certain

[gentle aspen]

same way gms did

The ol silk and dip

[marble oasis]

gms got teleported there?

[sinful nimbus]

Suspiciously weaver elevator shaped lava escape sequence

[gentle aspen]

nah gms was taken kicking and screaming type shi

making a cocoon type shi

[marble oasis]

the question mark was rhetorical

she got teleported straight into the abyss

[gentle aspen]

yo mama was rhetorical

[twilit crest]

Good one

[muted lantern]

I assume the diving bell was a pun of the games obsession with bells and it being a literal diving bell which is a real thing

[marble oasis]

i truly doubt the citadel ever went to the abyss

[sinful nimbus]

It could've been a double pun

Lamesauce joke

[marble oasis]

it must be weaver tech

[twilit crest]

Pun or just a literal bell for diving into lava

[muted lantern]

well i assume the joke is that its a regular diving bell but shaped to look like an actual bell

[twilit crest]

Por Que no los dos

[high bronze]

So is there a reason for the bells or nah

[marble oasis]

gms

[muted lantern]

Citadel is song themed, bells are just their most common instrument, also bells are used to dampen gms's power in some cut lore

[twilit crest]

Wdym

[twilit crest]

That lore was cut?

[high bronze]

Huh

Gms?

[muted lantern]

Grand mother silk

[high bronze]

O

Wait is that why the needloin works

[muted lantern]

Well the bell shrines use of making gms's boss fight easier was cut, along with the secret ending if you didn't ring them all. I don't recall dialogue explicitly refferring to the bells importance to weakening her remaining in game but we know song in general keeps gms asleep in the non cut content.

[dire lynx]

Ballow:
Ho, miss! How's all this then? Lotta dials to be trackin', but at least the controls seem in good order.
From here, I can guide your bell down, best as any bug.

Hornet:
Then you've no prior experience with this type of transport?

Ballow:
No one does, miss! Them's who used to dive're all long dead, or cursed ta half life. An' there ain't no bug left alive's been brave or stupid enough to try... 'til now, at least.
I'll work it best's I can. Can't do much more, I'm afraid. At least the forgings of these docks were built to last. Now we's only gotta pray they hold for you.
Here's the key that'll see you inside its metal belly. Pop in there once you're feelin' good and ready. In the meantime, I'll get to seeing things set up here.

[twilit crest]

Huh. Go figure

[muted lantern]

Yeah it seems like some divers got voided so they gave up on the whole thing

[dire lynx]

yes, just had to find the quote

[high bronze]

Ok dang it makes a lot more sense now, so is it a radiance situation that gms was pissed everyone was playing music

[marble oasis]

i don’t see how this disproves it being weaver era

[muted lantern]

Music used to be used to worship her but the weavers turned it into a trap that lulled her to sleep, thats why its the citadel of song, the music the citadel produces prolongs her slumber.

[twilit crest]

I think it makes sense for the forge people to be the builders. So we have to trace back when they were contracted

[high bronze]

Is there a more comprehensive lore dump of this i can read this on?

[sinful nimbus]

The first shrine bell makes its vicinity safer from the haunting

[twilit crest]

Was gonna say

[dire lynx]

just look at the construction, the dock you land on is even gilded

[muted lantern]

There's a full text dump you can keyword search in the pinned messages.

[marble oasis]

that literally makes it more likely to be weaver era

conductor era is when they started gilding everything

[muted lantern]

Diving bell definitely doesn't look like weaver tech

[sinful nimbus]

They presumably always used heat resistant metals in lavaland

[marble oasis]

how

weavers made bells

weavers made so many bells

[muted lantern]

It looks nothing like their bells

[sinful nimbus]

It has a different functionality so yeah

[muted lantern]

Weaver tech had a fairly consistent style to it, even the tech that was repurposed by the conductors

[dire lynx]

ie whiteward

slab

[sinful nimbus]

First Sinner's cell doesn't look very different

Its not like covered in fancy seals but citadel weavers have pretty consistently used metal like that

[twilit crest]

First sinner’s room looks a bit different from forgedaughter make

[dire lynx]

the weavers love silver

[marble oasis]

*pale ore

[dire lynx]

you can see it is the original metal of first sinners cage, the tools of whiteward and merglin, the floors and machines in atla and cindril

[twilit crest]

They dont really look alike design wise

[muted lantern]

Yeah diving bell is very much in the style of most other deep docks things

Plus that doors a little small for a weaver don't you think?

[dire lynx]

geeks for silver

[marble oasis]

yes… silver…

[muted lantern]

Craft metal more likely

[dire lynx]

the bronze bell is very much deep docks/conductor

[twilit crest]

Yeah those dont look alike to deep docks make at all

Weaver tech has more points and jagged angles

[dire lynx]

i dont mean literal silver, just that the metal they work with is silver coloured

in contrast with bronze and gold of conductors

[muted lantern]

Speaking of metal, I think most of the golden bells and citadel gilding are just gilded iron. We see mizellos mask looking like iron where the gilding has faded and the clearly golden colored bell held by the pilgrim guide is called an iron bell.

[marble oasis]

that diving bell is silver though

[marble oasis]

iron is brown when it rusts or tarnishes

[muted lantern]

It's the same grayish metal all over the docks

[muted lantern]

Pilgrims bells are still described as iron

In pilgrim guides hj entry

[marble oasis]

i know

but cogbugs are also called iron

although i think that’s the inner workings and the outer shell is plated in bronze

[dire lynx]

conductor age construct

[muted lantern]

I'm not saying it's rusting, just that the golden gilding is chipping off to show the iron beneath.

[marble oasis]

actually the same happens with the dreamers

[dire lynx]

similar perhaps

[twilit crest]

Gilded iron or just brass

Which is what many bells irl are made out of

[gentle aspen]

You mean

silkver?

[marble oasis]

“ghost where is my mother’s body”

“ghost what did you do with my mother’s body”

The Knight with an extremely Herrah-shaped bulge in its stomach:

[robust wagon]

ghost with a suspiciously Herrah-shaped neck: Idk

[muted lantern]

Yeah but the bells are described as being made of iron in the hunters journal so I assume it's the former.

[robust wagon]

Dammit beat me to it >:|

[stray fog]

.

[graceful grail]

Is there any other bug that can close its eyes??

Even asleep they dont close their eyes!!

[muted lantern]

Her eyes might just be shaped like that, similar to shakra

It also might have something to do with having/not having a mask

like skarrs presumably are maskless when its just their red shell

[graceful grail]

There shell is a natural mask im pretty sure.

[muted lantern]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/586931790208434203/1458760130563936421/Pinstress_Wakeup_1.gif

Im not sure if pinstress closes her eyes here

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/586931790208434203/1458759306269950015/Pinstress_Nap.gif

seems she does

[graceful grail]

I dont think these bugs have natural masks

[graceful grail]

Intresting. But imagine how it would look if they were there.

You would think she were dead

[muted lantern]

I mean you are supposed to think shes dead when shes frozen there

[graceful grail]

Also, new subject.

Whuts with all these bugs with white eyes?? Basically only the collector has white eyes in HK. But there are so many in pharloom. Is it silk or what??

[muted lantern]

Could be just to make them contrast with black shells

if their eyes were black on a black head we wouldnt see eyes

[graceful grail]

True

But others are white anyways

No mask probably here, do most other bugs even have a mouth. How do they even eat??

Are bugs mouth normally under their mask?? (Just not so big)

Also, new thought -

WHY?? How?? Is it same sorta technique GMS uses to make life?

Wow, dead channel…

[halcyon merlin]

idk about lace but for hornet isnt that her mask

[rich roost]

hello

[tulip lotus]

hello

[muted lantern]

what

i was reading that

[signal scarab]

Is it a vessel thing to close its eyes

[muted lantern]

its eyes arent closed here, its just perspective, they look smaller because it's looking down

[signal scarab]

Ohhh thanks for letting me know I always thought it was closing its eyes

[marble oasis]

flick is actually the only other example i can think of where we see both

[muted lantern]

But we don't ever see his actual sprite open his eyes do we?

[marble oasis]

no

[muted lantern]

could just be a stylistic choice for the statue

[marble oasis]

so yeah that could just be artistic license

[marble oasis]

Shrue…

[cunning carbon]

The ego of this guy tho. The pride of a manlet

"I want a statue to bring residents some strength and pride"
Proceeds to build a massive statue of himself with no symbolism

[crimson patio]

See how the light reflects off of Lace and Hornet’s eyes here

Those have volumes, not hollow sockets with eyes behind them
They are actual eyes and those are just their heads

The random use of mask and face interchangably in mask maker’s dialogues is just odd

[dreamy onyx]

Hornet doesn't close her eyes because that's a mask lol

I assume her actual eyes are hidden under her mask

[dreamy onyx]

Masks are a confusing thing in HK

Snail Shamans, Pilgrims, Skarrs, Skull Dwellers, none of them have masks

And it's also not clear how Mask Maker works... Tipp and Pill know about him, but I doubt he's our here making masks for beasts of the lowlands

[crimson patio]

So she just perpetually have a black veil over her eyes or something? Or how does her “mask” work

Cuz those are def solids

[dreamy onyx]

I think the "eyes" are holes?

[crimson patio]

You know how TC draws “holes” for eyes

[dreamy onyx]

shrug

maybe she just has black eyelids

I don't think anatomy applies in this world, bugs have hearts and bones

[crimson patio]

A hollow eye socket have visible ridges with light reflecting off of them

[dreamy onyx]

I mean the Knight's shade has white eyes

[cunning carbon]

Citadel bugs are dumb as hell. They destroyed their lands so they could reap the comforts of eternal life but their actions destroyed the pleasures of life.

What do they eat? Honestly. There’s no lavash meals for them because all the natural locations are ruined. Is a life on muckroach and moss soup a life eternally desired? Heck, even wanting for a life time?

They used to have so much, the tastes of Karak, the fertile fields of greymoor, the bountiful prey of the far fields and the bounty of clear water.

Now it’s all diseased. All that ruin for immortality without the joy of life

[stray fog]

How does one even notice that

[crimson patio]

Looks like visible ridges to me

[crimson patio]

When you want to convince people that Hornet’s face is an actual face and not a mask you scurry for details

[stray fog]

Skurry mentioned ‼️

[dreamy onyx]

Only the bugs in Sinner's Road eat Muckroaches

[stray fog]

This is how brainwashing works though

[dreamy onyx]

I have no idea what the citadel bugs eat tbh

[cunning carbon]

Is there an accurate name for this guy? I and a few others call them the vessel but others call them the knight

[dreamy onyx]

They probably ate some shit we don't even know about

[crimson patio]

Tbf the majority of citadel bugs are brainwashed asf

[crimson patio]

That’s void given form

[stray fog]

I think tc called it the knight once

[crimson patio]

Official name for it

[dreamy onyx]

Maybe the Memorium bugs? Possibly some bugs from Pharloom Bay depending on how that goes

[stray fog]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/11662585/hollow-knight/posts/1532829

[cunning carbon]

That’s what’s on its birth certificate

[crimson patio]

That’s what it is in DNM ending

[dreamy onyx]

Actually maybe they just ate Pharloom Bay's wildlife into extinction

They could've easily just hunted bugs from the lowlands and midlands, I doubt they saw them as the same level as themselves anyway

[crimson patio]

I mean…

[cunning carbon]

The memorium is actually really interesting. Is it a zoo? Or is it more so to remember the pilgrims path. If the later, it paints an interesting image of how the citadel expected the pilgrims to journey

[crimson patio]

It’s not as if the areas around Pharloom are unlivable if there are still pilgrims coming from there

They could easily send out envoys to gather from the surrounding areas

[dreamy onyx]

I don't think we see all of Pharloom

Shakra's tribe is stated as being from Pharloom's edge

I assume that both her tribe and the area the Pilgrims come from are areas we've not yet seen

The Pilgrim land might be a client state of Pharloom

[low oracle]

I literally made an argument about this...

[low oracle]

We never see "all of". You can always see stuff in the background, the world is 3-dimensional. We only travel on a 2D screen, and even then we can see 3D things (entering homes).

[low oracle]

It also has the oyster guy from the "cut" content (uncut with see of sorrows probably). I think it was used to literally "remember" everything they wanted to see remembered. It also seems a collection of sorts. Dead, sentient bugs are preserved, which is pretty insane.

For comparison, Lugoli got banned from the citadel for cooking sentient bugs, which she still did before we killed her (idk the gender, people said she).

It is also interesting in the aspects of how nature works. The moss grotto is an incredibly simple ecosystem, hence being able to flourish greatly.
The karak creatures (non-sapient) were also capable of extreme survivability, only with the right resources however. The lack of Karak warriors pinned to the collection of corpses, indicates that the drought of Karak effectively stopped them from ever even making a move to attack. Instead they had the time to only gather and look at their leader, one last time.
Verdania could only exist given the right conditions, which definitely didn't apply here. It exists right next to a great lake, in a pretty hidden location, hence it probably could only exist there. The conditions aren't known, but they likely only applied there.
Shellwood was likely an easy task to sustain, without having it die or overgrow its containment. Since Nyleth and the citadel were direct allies (even giving her a shrine, the citadel corpses were likely simply haunted intruders), they likely had all the knowledge they needed.
The voltnest seems to have been much less of nature they wanted conserved, but rather a tool to hide their terrific deeds (guarding the room with the pinned sapient bugs). It still was an easy-to-sustain environment, even being understood enough to be used in such a mechanism.
The Far Fields and the Marrow have pretty small areas, though they seemingly did "fine" (not great but okay).

[whole holly]

guys do you think Vessels can be haunted, this is somewhat hypothetical, but way Haunting works i think they should be resilient to it

like they can simply Focus the Silk and heal themselves

like i don't think they can be caught up in silk threads, way bell beast and kratt was, Vessels would focus it

[low oracle]

I think that physically anything can be affected by silk, to be tied up like Kratt or so. But Vessels are basically anti-life created to resist anything, so they can't be infected by anything. Broken Vessel is only the shell with lifeseeds inside and The Hollow Knight is only leaking the source of the infection. Lifeblood can't overtake them either, it is just piled up without causing harm.
Basically, Vessels are powerhouses with void inside, hence resisting all HB powers that try to overtake them.

Where do you have that from? To me it is implied Verdania couldn't be sustained, as it was to special. Adding to that, the ecosystem didn't even leave the containment.

I interpreted that as "destined to be forgotten" and "will eventually cease to exist".

Containment failed? I didn't see that anywhere to be honest.

[whole holly]

are there Bay species preserved?

like that sea creature in memorium

[low oracle]

The oyster is the only evidence of whatever cut/dlc content there is.

[whole holly]

this like, seems to be hermit, unlike bell hermit

Sea of Sorrows needs to have better area name than Pharloom Bay, i would like more aquatic beachy vibes

[low oracle]

Interesting. Maybe it exceeded in something negative? As in, exceeded its capabilities? I really don't know, but it definitely didn't seem to have flourished.

[autumn herald]

we need crabs

[whole holly]

Karakas weren't enough?

[low oracle]

Pharloom bay would be the equivalent to Bone Bottom. The area is moss grotto/marrow, the settlement just has a unique name on the same map.

[whole holly]

yeah, i did notice that

[whole holly]

true

[low oracle]

Yes, they are (distant) related species.

[whole holly]

environment exceeded capacity for resources/sustaining

[low oracle]

Good idea, maybe it required far too much care to be sustained for a prolonged period of time.

They might also have grown bigger in the environment of Verdania, so they originally were smaller, but evolved bigger there.

[whole holly]

i wonder if Pharloom Bay might have similar flora to Verdania, they are somewhat near each other

Bilewater could have been Baywater, and Pharloom Bay was likely source of it, now most of water is poisoned

[low oracle]

GMS: Literally nothing, her hivemind doesn't give direct orders most of the time.
Weavers: Only made the religion, the citadel was of stone back then.
Conductors: Did the best and the worst. They gilded the citadel and brought it to the grand power that it has now become. They industrialized everything, even the bugs themselves. Farmers became dreg catchers and the Deep Docks were created to extract resources. They made the citadel something truly holy, while at the same time doing the worst possible actions. The memorium and the sapient pinned bugs aren't even the worst. The Whiteward and the Underworks had bugs being eternally tortured and forced to work.
However there were some good conductors. Ballador wanted the best for all pilgrims the citadel exploited, only did he not have the power to do so. In his time, the citadel was already fallen to the haunting, and his guards were so without reason. They only protected him because that is what they always did before the haunting.

[low oracle]

Baywater....I think I prefer Clearwater.

ABSOLUTELY NOT. They had all the knowledge of what would have happened, and how insanely ironic the Whiteward actually was. They also could spin silk themselves, so they wouldn't have needed the dreg catchers and so.

Silksong loves to make you care about all these unfortunate and unlucky NPCs. And then they die, one after the other.

Probably the exhaust organ, which seemingly filters out silk from somewhere. Maybe just all the exhausts coming from the Underworks and the waters of Bilewater.

Hollow Knight had less of these situations. Myla would be happy after every ending, and only Tiso really dies. And nobody feels sad for Zote.

She was locked away, so not that. The Whiteward used all the silk it had, hence it becoming a rare resource.

[autumn herald]

more crabs

[stray fog]

There was one hermit crab npc in the bay

[low oracle]

Lemm seems of the same species. Just like relic seeker scrounge is the same species as the vaultkeepers.

[stray fog]

Yes

How are the crabs nomadic / spanning across multiple kingdoms

[low oracle]

It just is something we can draw parallels to. In my opinion, Xero and Garro are Karak. I don't want to debate that, as I already have a lot of times, but we can draw relations with lots of characters.

[heavy gyro]

They did likely extract silk from GMS: "they forget your heart, bound in slumber and **servitude **"

[stray fog]

Yes

[low oracle]

Bound in servitude=Bound by servitude:
She was held asleep by song which requires servitude.

[stray fog]

Probably different melodies

Songs are magical in skong

[low oracle]

The thing is, he resembles them just as much as Xero. They both have the same similarities and the same differences. Garro has a more similar overall shape, but you can still nitpick a lot of things.

[heavy gyro]

Both it says "in" for both slumber and servitude and has parallel structure, so it is GMS who is bound in servitude

[low oracle]

Why would the Higher Being serve regular bugs? And in which way do you propose that she did?

[heavy gyro]

It means that her cocoon was extracted for silk

[low oracle]

Her cocoon was locked away behind three melodies and somewhat guarded by Lace.

[dreamy onyx]

I like to think Garro and Xero were part of an expeditionary force that encountered Hallownest, and then just settled there

[dreamy onyx]

I don't think Lace was guarding it from anyone aside Hornet, was she?

Nobody in Pharloom would be capable of even reaching it, Hornet says as much

[stray fog]

It is said that xero betrayed the pale king, so maybe they were secret agents from karak

[dreamy onyx]

I assumed it was just because he got Infected

[low oracle]

I said somewhat, as that is just the place she sleeps.

[low oracle]

He implied it was the infection, describing it exactly the same as any other infected warrior.

[heavy gyro]

Lace was likely after the haunting, and they could access the cradle somehow judging by all the lore tablets and corpses

[stray fog]

Maybe he was a soldier for pk, and tried to attack him after getting infected

[dreamy onyx]

She might've been before, I don't think the Haunting is a very old phenomenon

Sometimes I wonder how GMS even created Lace and Phantom

Did she only do it after binding enough Weavers to herself that she was lucid enough to control the Silk she was encased in?

[whole holly]

wait, Palewater

[low oracle]

Colours aren't consistent. Here are the similarities though.

[dire lynx]

Stillwater would make alot of sense considering the name stillkin

[stray fog]

Btw why is the pale lake pale

What is pale about it?

[low oracle]

It is literally pale

[stray fog]

Is that it though?

[low oracle]

Pale Stag is also just a pale stag. Besides that, the Pale Lake is a very beautiful and rich with resources sooo....

[stray fog]

Bug mfs be calling every slightly good thing pale 🙏

[low oracle]

There is pale ore, the Pale King, The White Lady, pale oil, pale lake, pale stag and Grand Mother Silk. The Knight and Hornet also have pale shells, as do all the other vessels.

[stray fog]

Someone made a whole chart of every pale thing in the games

But it has been deleted for some reason

[whole holly]

i don't know actually, connections to soul are somewhat vague, Pale Lake doesn't even regenerate Soul, who knows

[frosty gate]

Whats the topic

[frosty gate]

Water Higher Being trust

[stray fog]

If only the pale lake replenished soul...

We would have an explanation for hot springs too

Pale water or something

[whole holly]

Pale Water has pale coloration compared to wastewater all around it

maybe that's it

it is weird how memory orbs in Lost Verdania are ball of light, and also there are pale things like Pale Stag, even pale egg

[stray fog]

Pale egg?

[whole holly]

in a room yeah, it is room where we fight young verdanir

[stray fog]

Is the egg called pale?

[whole holly]

not really, it looks pale, maybe in game files

[whole holly]

will we see Pale Being in Sea of Sorrows?

that makes sense, but there are some kind of suggestions about Pale Beings, like additional lore, Palestag and Pale Lake, what could it mean?

yeah, Green Prince has bad memory so Pale Stag could have existed as Pale Being, i think Pantheon of Pharloom will reveal that

i want to see Sea of Sorrows already, i barely have patience left

that is true i don't want it to be repetitive with Plasmium and want it to have unique traits

Needle Phial kinda prevents him from healing, i needle phial-ed him 4 times

i don't think so, Sea of Sorrows won't introduce new endings in my opinion

[stray fog]

Speculation time:

What if pale beings are just the first beings of their species
Like how everblooms are the "first light"

[whole holly]

Pantheon of Pharloom might

[whole holly]

is GMS first of Spiders? Weavers?

[stray fog]

I guess it doesn't apply to every species

Because there were no pale Weavers

[whole holly]

what Species is GMS first of? though?

[stray fog]

When I sent that message, I was mainly speculating about known species like wyrms (pale king) and roots (the white lady)

Idk about gms

[stray fog]

This theory is not strong enough I think

[whole holly]

yeah

to be honest, whole events of the games in Hollow Knight is Weavers and Mothkins fault, and children of Wyrm have to fix it

[stray fog]

Not even the moths's fault

[whole holly]

they abandoned Goddess for new trendy king, it is, she was being forgotten because of them

[stray fog]

They should have the freedom of this choice

[heavy gyro]

The moths didn't even fully forget about her, there were still "hush whispers of faith "

[whole holly]

so should have weavers, but they wanted power, mothkin also wanted new light and thought they could get away with abandoning higher beings

[heavy gyro]

So rad is unjustified completely

[whole holly]

i mean it could have been individuals, like ones that say Radiance Statue

[whole holly]

i mean Radiance created species to worship her, she gave them life, and Seer admits that

[stray fog]

Weavers should have freedom, but the way they took that freedom was evil

[whole holly]

can you give examples for larger discussion

[whole holly]

Mothkin knowingly abandoned her, given that Radiance being forgotten would have doomed her

[stray fog]

True

[stray fog]

The Weavers didn't have freedom, so they made the citadel to get their own freedom, while ruining everyone else's lives

[whole holly]

GMS was worse, she expected full devotion and basically infinite labor, only for ascending the pharlids, and created new daughter anyways

[whole holly]

true but at one point Threefold Melody was automated so Citadel Bugs were free, they were just compromised by Silk in environment

not to Weavers, Phantom and Weaver Descendants

Radiance likely sustained Moths with her light and moths worshiped her as result, likely their relationship was transactional, unlike GMS and Weavers

[heavy gyro]

That was after the weavers had left tho iirc

[whole holly]

Weavers played Song to sustain her light, in Widow memory Cut-scene

[whole holly]

yeah, but i am just clarifying that they didn't doom citadel bugs to eternal servitude, since they eventually automated Threefold Melody, and Whiteward experiments is what doomed Citadel Bugs most and Silk threads from GMS

[heavy gyro]

But at that point, the conductors had implemented the underworks, so the eternal servitude never stopped

[whole holly]

yeah, we are pretty sure she was always dream higher being since she was always known to be

[whole holly]

eternal servitude to GMS did stop technically they exploited her Divinity to create new religion and new cycle altogether tbh, Eternal Servitude to Citadel is different beast

but GMS and Citadel are worst, Radiance and Mothkin were bad as well, Pale King broke their positive cycle whether intentionally or not, but Wyrms do pull bugs in their thrall and Radiance got upset as a result

[trail wagon]

yk i dont understand, like.. before the silk infection?? did everyone publicly use the doggo (bell beast)??

[frosty gate]

I honestly think the BB is not the means of transport

[trail wagon]

then why do those bell ways even exist??

[frosty gate]

I think there's something we haven't seen about the Bellways

"Natural"

They're bells

Bells don't grow on rocks

[trail wagon]

how doe sthat explain the uh paying to open the door of the bell thingy

[barren crow]

I remember someone saying that the citizens of the citadel rode through them in gilded carriages

[trail wagon]

the what

[barren crow]

The bellways

[frosty gate]

Hear me out, I think the Bellways were the means to go from point A to point B, but I doubt the Bell Beast was the transportation used at the time.

The BB is most likely a Beast natural to the tunnels

The Pilgrimage forbids it

That's not made up, it's in the game

[low oracle]

If the Radiance needs them to live and they simply abandon her, she is absolutely justified. That doesn't justify the infection, but why it happened in the first place. It truly was the moths fault, Seer even saying as such.
Grand Mother Silk and the Weavers were both at fault, as they both made their own mistakes.

[low oracle]

The Bellways were travelled by the veiled bugs.

[frosty gate]

BB is likely an evolved or big version of the Groms you find in the Wormways

Citadel bugs, The Choir

[barren crow]

Envoys probably

[frosty gate]

They look similar

[low oracle]

The envoys carrying their gilded cages and carriages.

[low oracle]

They probably have a common ancestor, but they definitely aren't directly related. Simply the eyes are enough to draw that conclusion.

Also the lack of limbs.

[frosty gate]

Evolution baby

[low oracle]

Common Ancestor

[frosty gate]

No particular reason really

[frosty gate]

https://tenor.com/view/minor-spelling-mistake-gif-21179057

[low oracle]

"Why do worms burrow down" I think you kinda answered your own question. And probably also to find food.

[strange hazel]

wait

is trobbio going to be fought in sea of sorrow?

[barren crow]

That'll probably definitely 100% absolutely be explained in sea of sorrow

[strange hazel]

we know that in act 3 trobbio becomes purple

[barren crow]

And emo you can't forget that

[strange hazel]

if we fight trobbio again, he would likely become blue.

and guess which dlc is themed around blue things

sea of sorrow

[frosty gate]

Going back to this, BB is probably in her natural habitat

Now here's an interesting one

The Bell Eater

[low oracle]

The bellways?

[frosty gate]

Yeah

She is the Bell Beast

And she has her kiddies there

[barren crow]

I hate bell eater because it tries to eat the doggo. Fun fight though

[strange hazel]

pretty sure i saw a clip where the bell beast had offspring, i havent gotten far enough to know though

[frosty gate]

I think this thing was used as an excavator to dig the tunnels

[strange hazel]

now, question

[frosty gate]

You should leave this channel then, it will be full of spoilers

[strange hazel]

i dont really care too much, i simply spoilered it for other people

[frosty gate]

There's no anti spoiler rule here, no need to tag it dw

[strange hazel]

O H

okay then!

[low oracle]

Bell Eater resides deep underground, only coming out due to the earthquakes from the void. It wasn't even inside the bellways lower layers, it simply dug up through them.
My guess would be that it lives directly under the bellways/bellveins, filter feeding through the ground. Hence it also eats bells, though they obviously aren't its main source of nutrition (bells aren't very nutritious).

[low oracle]

The species likely migrated to the bellways, were they were tamed and put to use.

[frosty gate]

We agree with that!
I personally thing the beast was used at some point to clear the bells and make the tunnels so they could be used by these nonexistent gilded carriages.

[strange hazel]

anyway, is hornet fluffy underneath her mask or not, because the weavers are, and she's part weaver, but also she's part wyrm, and the pale king likely has his mask as his face from what i know

[barren crow]

The gilded cages do exist, as we see several

[strange hazel]

im not sure though for the pale king

[frosty gate]

Not in the Bellways we don't

[heavy gyro]

Plasmified bell beast confirmed

[barren crow]

Save that for sea of sorrow

[frosty gate]

I don't think she was used, it doesn't look like that's the case. There's no bell to call for her or nothing to signal her to come to a station

Stag Stations had bells to call the Stag

Yeah, Hornet can speak and call for her, but that's because she's tamed

[low oracle]

The gilded carriagaes probably do exist, though they are the type that two or four people carry.
I don't think the Belleater was ever "used" in some way, simply because it is far too much of a beast. How would the citadel even make it follow orders? They definitely can't defeat it in its natural habitat, and it only left when the earthquakes started. Basically, it probably wasn't ever seen before.

[gentle aspen]

?

Why?

[frosty gate]

Fair assumption

[frosty gate]

I meant the Bell Eater not BB sorry.

This is all a theory btw, not a hill I will die on

[gentle aspen]

you will die on a hill in about 47 years but that’s neither here nor there

[frosty gate]

God I hope so

Will it be by bleeding out in a cinematic way?

Under a sunrise?

[low oracle]

True, but then where would the name originate from? And how would it even have lived inside the bellways prior to the haunting?
It definitely wasn't recent that the Bell Beast came to the bellways, and the citadel surely wouldn't appreaciate a savage beast going about. After defeating it, we also see the animation where silk flows from its body. Hence I believe it was haunted, hence acting hostile. After having the silk beaten out of it, it becomes docile again.

[strange hazel]

how DO we beat the silk out of it though, canonically we are just petting the bell beast, our nail cannot get through its shell, so how does the silk come out?

[gentle aspen]

Bell Beast isn’t haunted

[frosty gate]

"This one has allied themself with me, either as thanks for their saving or respect for one judged as equal. Whichever the reason, their fellowship is welcome."

It's implied her being docile is to show thanks or respect, not a predetermined thing she does

[low oracle]

How do you know?

[frosty gate]

"Huge, hardbone bug that lives within and travels through the veins of old bells across Pharloom."

It's likely she's not really a danger to the people and it's basically to Pharloom what a shark is to us

At least BB shows to be more intelligent than a shark

[gentle aspen]

pretty sure they don’t have needolin dialogue
and like, hitting them and doing no damage wouldn’t suddenly make them unhaunted either

it simply lashed out after being strung up for who knows how long

[strange hazel]

i believe shes simply scared, and by slashing her, she eventually calms down and pacifies as a thanks for saving, which corresponds to hornet petting her when she slashes and the journal entry of the bb

[low oracle]

If the needle didn't break through the shell, you would be implying the bell beast is essentially stronger than a Higher Being. Besides, you can hit hard and you can hit soft. Nobody said that Hornet is full on swinging her needle at the bell beast as if trying to kill it.
Yes, the shell is very tough. But that doesn't equal to "The Bell Beast can't be harmed by a weapon wielded by a demi-god/semi-Higher Being".

[frosty gate]

She had cut dialogue, but since its cut its not real

[low oracle]

They bell beast would be inherently hostile though, following that logic. Sharks just simply aren't hostile unless provoked.

[stray fog]

Was the needolin supposed to be unlocked before the bellways when the battle dialogue was written?

[frosty gate]

But she isn't Hostile, she seems to be scared

But to be fair, I am speculating

[strange hazel]

based on the stage of the game BB was really intended for, you have a basic needle and a silkspear. i heavily think that means that the needle is simply just not strong enough for the bell beast's shell.

[low oracle]

Actually it probably would. Lost Lace and Garmond are both affected by voided silk. When beating them, the silk (and void) are removed from their bodies. Garmond dies though, since he's just a mortal bug. His colour doesn't change, but that is just how the void works I guess. The silk definitely is removed though, as it can also control corpses, hence Garmond would still fight after death.

Lost Lace isn't a normal bug, hence not dying. It is quite evident though, that you beat the voided silk out of her, which can also be seen during the staggers.

[strange hazel]

oh?

[low oracle]

She doesn't flee though, the arena is actually locked by silk and bells. Who controls silk? GMS. Who causes the haunting? GMS. Who looses the silk controlled by GMS after defeat? The Bell Beast.

[gentle aspen]

Lace is entirely comprised of silk and garmond dies from injuries sustained

We also still clearly see him all dark and stuff as opposed to lace who was actually within the abyss and got the coating of void falling off of her

[low oracle]

That still wouldn't be equal to petting however. Maybe the Bell Beast wouldn't be defeated at the same measure of time, but it certainly wouldn't completely ignore any damage. Even the weakest strike is a killing blow, if dealt hundreds of times in a row.

[low oracle]

All voided enemies remain that colour upon defeat, and they don't drop from death. Rather their bodies are too injured and diminished of silk for the haunting to further animate their bodies.
I guess that if you die voided you stay that colour.

And Lace simply isn't dead after defeat, unlike Garmond.

[barren crow]

Guys quick question

What's everything we know about the Abyss Creature

[gentle aspen]

slow answer

[gentle aspen]

lifeblood dais found in the abyss which isn’t present in the birthplace memory
only found within the dream realm and has some dominion over lifeblood
can be found in godhome and presumably was attuned to

On a slightly more speculative level both instances of it need the knight to “prove themselves” to find it

[gentle aspen]

ie needing enough lifeblood masks or bindings done in godhome

[barren crow]

I've heard some theories that it's the opposite of the radiance, with the lifeseed looking just like the tiny infection things, one having roots and one having vines, and one being found at the top of the kingdom and one at the bottom

[gentle aspen]

probably not the case

[barren crow]

Like I said I've only heard of them

[gentle aspen]

lifeseeds look different from lightseeds and lightseeds are bloated unicellular organisms

[vivid kernel]

I’m new to hollow knight, just reaching the lake of unn but what’s the diffrent between voidheart edition and normal?

[gentle aspen]

dunno what the bit about roots and vines is about

[gentle aspen]

both show vines

And the whole peak/bottom of the kingdom is a misrepresentation

[whole holly]

they parallel each other, which is most likely intentional, Orange is opposite of blue and things like that

[stray fog]

I believe in the lifeblood and infection similarities theory

[whole holly]

and Plasmium Affliction and Radiance's Infection are also parallel, symptoms and stages are flipped but overall result being mostly same

[stray fog]

Idk what the implication is, but the similarities are there

[barren crow]

I'm not talking about light seed, I'm talking about the things that come out of the wall in the mawlurk area

[gentle aspen]

yeah
lightseeds

[random harbor]

Hunter's Journal: Lightseed

Description:
A single-celled organism, completely infected. Scurries about simple-mindedly.

Hunter's notes:
Strange air has been seeping down from above for years. Some of the air became liquid, and some of that liquid became flesh, and some of that flesh came to life. I don't know what to make of it.

Dream Nail:
...LIGHT...
...BRIGHT...
...GLOW...

@kingoclowns used /journal name: Lightseed

[whole holly]

it is probably intentional

[stray fog]

Here is a list of all the parallels I remember

[gentle aspen]

not the channel to ask

[whole holly]

i mean that is true, but mechanism and opposite with overall similarities being present, honestly, very cool

[stray fog]

(the main points are listed first, and then the supporting points are listed. So don't take the eye colour point too seriously)

[whole holly]

i don't think it is too serious of topic, team cherry probably thought it would be interesting to have something antagonistic to Radiance's Infection

[stray fog]

We'll see in the dlc

[low oracle]

How is the Radiance's infection not antagonistic......

[stray fog]

I think he meant "opposite to the infection"

[low oracle]

Yeah, but the whole "you missed the true threat" shit is so overplayed, it's actually fucking ridiculous.

[stray fog]

I dont think it'll be a true threat, or a bigger threat
Just another force in the hollow universe

[low oracle]

The threat in question comes from regular bugs. That's the logic of "water is bad, because water can kill people".

[open quarry]

Good afternoon comrades
i have a question about "themes" (indirectly linked to actual lore), is this a good place or should i go to #discussion ?

[uneven plaza]

Yall think gms elevated a drapemite in order to make herrah the beast? And that would explain why she looks so different than the other weavers. The drapemites also seem to have very small horns, like herrah.

[stray fog]

This is the correct place

[open quarry]

Well thx
ok
While the game is pretty clear about oppressive systems for governements , labor etc...
do you feel silksong is intentionally commenting on "conspiracy" ? (example: yes all the worst happening in society/pharloom is all a big master plan)

[uneven plaza]

Peak

[open quarry]

all in all i'm inclined to think Silksong is intentionally anti-conspiracy and TC was like : well what we made you think from afar was a conspiracy is more like conflicted elites at different hierarchy levels who don't know what to do and... make horrible mistakes all the time... and they are also miserable and clueless, but more accountable for their own suffering than say... Loam.

[low oracle]

The Karak water was used for that. The putrified ducts is the exhaust.

The exhaust pipe, where all the leftover wastes are pumped out.

[rough ingot]

Why does Herrah red memory look different

[sinful nimbus]

redesign

[low oracle]

Retcon. If you theorize, she might have not grown that XXL ass yet.
EDIT: The small drapemites resemble pharlids much more than the big drapemites, hence we can assume they could have been ascended in the same way.

[rough ingot]

Possibly so she resembles a weaver more?

[sinful nimbus]

Its not like Herrah's body disappeared after she went to sleep

[rough ingot]

Her size could also just be due to the dreamer masks being… really weird

[sinful nimbus]

Herrah already gave birth in Red Memory too though

[rough ingot]

Weavers have a hard time giving birth

Cuz GMS let her curse share down her threads

[low oracle]

Not possible. Why? Because we literally see the born child of hers while she is in the form that causes this confusion.

[sinful nimbus]

It ain't that deep they just redesigned Herrah to look like a weaver after changing her species to weaver 🥀

[mighty sand]

yo quick question, im currently doing the parkor climb above the broken cradle which i heard goes to the surface (no spoilers plz) but i was just curious, is dirtmouth on the surface?

[rough ingot]

No

[low oracle]

What weird ass birth would that be? That's like getting the pregnant belly after having born the child, and even then with a delay.

[rough ingot]

Just a few enemies and a silken memory

[sinful nimbus]

Dirtmouth is referred to as the surface (relative to Hallownest probably)

[low oracle]

The devs said no. And the "surface" isn't even necessarily THE surface. Just don't think about it.

[rough ingot]

Uh?

[low oracle]

Like this?

[rough ingot]

Silkpost

[mighty sand]

i meanth like in hallownest have we seen the surface or is this the first time

[low oracle]

No, I'm asking if this was how she inflated.

[rough ingot]

Ah

[rough ingot]

I have that

[mighty sand]

here i was thinking hornet would finally get some vitamin d

[low oracle]

It's better.

[whole holly]

stop silkposting and talk about something in lore...

[rough ingot]

Pattern recognition

Also someone in Reddit made a museum of Silkpost

[low oracle]

II I
Ii I__

[rough ingot]

Real

U V__

[whole holly]

guys what does God even mean if Father of the Flame is called a god

[rough ingot]

Godseeker logic

[low oracle]

False god

[rough ingot]

Probably not a god

Just worshipped as one

[whole holly]

that is not specified in Hunter's Journal

[rough ingot]

It’s like actually a burner bug inside of it

Turn off the inspect light

You can see it’s corpse before you take the absolute worst blue tool

Rusty says it’s absolute ass

[low oracle]

I'm pretty sure it is described as a false idol or something. And it definitely isn't a real Higher Being, maybe a god as the godseekers define it.

[rough ingot]

I say it’s ass

Why does it cost silk, I like the silk shot more

[whole holly]

Rusty sucks he hasn't tried plasmified wispfire hornet build

[low oracle]

I think it isn't a burning bug, but a different one. I may be incorrect.

[rough ingot]

He says it’s soo niche it’s the worst blue tool

[rough ingot]

It’s one without the cloak on I think

[whole holly]

but Hunter's Journal isn't written by Godseeker, where is it said to be false idol?

[low oracle]

You die and try. And the ascended version removes the ground, because that is ALWAYS fun. Especially on Gruzmother, whom I haven't beaten to this day.

[whole holly]

he is worst silksong youtuber

[rough ingot]

I never used it

[rough ingot]

I’m sure he’s not

Also fyremoth mod when

[whole holly]

i have it is good, silk doesn't matter when you are plasmified

[rough ingot]

M A R K O T H

[low oracle]

Sharp shadow for five minutes straight.

[rough ingot]

Also I beat him without reserve bind

[low oracle]

Easy.

[whole holly]

i am trying to beat markoth

[rough ingot]

Radiant arena

Also why the frick did team cherry put GPZ after markoth in P5

[whole holly]

on radiant

[low oracle]

Arena: Yes. Radiant is hard on any boss though.

[rough ingot]

No

[whole holly]

yes

[rough ingot]

I hate radiant markoth

Tiso deserved to be beaten by us

[low oracle]

Nope, it should have been Zote. If Bretta liked Tiso instead and we could fight him, I would really enjoy that.

[whole holly]

i am close to beating him, should i use spell build?

[rough ingot]

Kingsiul

I hate radiant markoth

Havent beaten it

And grubberfly

I am a lazy player

[whole holly]

Grubberfly? that's a charm

[rough ingot]

I have…

[rough ingot]

It works well

[low oracle]

I think you should do a spell based build, but not necessarily full on. In his second phase, you can then spam spells. Or you just do the grimmchild, weaverlings, grubsong build.

[rough ingot]

Mantis Lords, NKG, Traitor Lord, Grimm, Pure Vessel, Soul Warrior, Dung Defender, and more I dont Feel like listing

[whole holly]

i have build multiple like Moss Charger, Soul Knight, Grimm

[whole holly]

me too pretty much, i didn't feel like listing either

[rough ingot]

I’m too lazy to do absrad and markoth

[whole holly]

yeah you could

[rough ingot]

I did NKG and PV on accident

Dudes literally a dance fight

[low oracle]

I hate the fuckin Soul Warrior, I can't beat him because of his shitass minion spam.

[rough ingot]

Those are the easiest

[rough ingot]

Same with GPZ

[whole holly]

PV is easier than NKG in some ways but pillars get me, on NKG those flying flame bats

[rough ingot]

Mid jump dash wings strike with nail 3 times

[low oracle]

Grey Prince Zoat shouldn't even have a radiant fight, when he does passive attacks for shits and giggles.

[rough ingot]

Uh

When he goes to uppercut, dash away and strike with nail twice

[whole holly]

i am trying to prefrect that

[low oracle]

Use DD to deal damage and get enough i-frames to avoid it.

I will make him the bait to catch the Leviathan.

[rough ingot]

I radiant NkG like so early

Zote it

Zoteboat, I love the fandom

I cannot draw

[low oracle]

I think it would be harder to do radiant Uumuu with all minion charms and dung charm, than radiant Markoth.

[rough ingot]

Skyward Sword flashbacks

[rough ingot]

Yes

Cuz ummuu godhome is my cancer

I did that ascended and then hated it

And same with no eyes

We need to hate on markoth and no eyes more than beastfly

Bro beastfly is easier than those

The time when ppl thought no eyes died to void be like

[low oracle]

WIth good rng, you get the start attack to summon jellyfish. Then you abyss shriek twice and it summons again, allowing you to kill it with just Dreamnail, abyss shriek (twice) and jellyfish (twice).

[rough ingot]

Yea

I suck at that tho

I’m not a sweat

[whole holly]

are Soul Vessels made by Ancient Civilization? why are Soul Vessels in Abyss Shriek Room?
is it similarly made like Spool Fragment

[low oracle]

I have personal beef with Elder Hu. Within the two times I could hit him, he did six attacks where you can't hit him.

[rough ingot]

I’m lazy

[rough ingot]

Probably, the ancient civilization was very curious about soul

Same

[whole holly]

Spool Fragment is also most likely made by Pale Ore

[low oracle]

Elder Hu is good for healing, but when you just want to do pantheons he sucks ass.

[whole holly]

really, is there evidence

[rough ingot]

The ancient civilization likely made all of the soul totems

It’s not unlikely it made soul vessels

[low oracle]

Except for the ones that Pale King made.

[rough ingot]

Except those yes

[whole holly]

it has Special Properties, Ancient mask is made by Ancient Civilizations from Pale Ore, Soul Vessel and Spool might be made by Pale Ore

[rough ingot]

My evidence is in the sharp shadow room

[whole holly]

who else could have made them? plus Soul Vessels are in Abyss Shriek room

[rough ingot]

Yes

[whole holly]

these

[heavy gyro]

I doubt the spools were made by the ancient civilization, but the soul vessels are likely

[rough ingot]

Spools are weaver artifacts

[heavy gyro]

Yeah

[whole holly]

Spools are by Weavers, game states that, but they might be from Pale Ore, that's not what i was asking, i asked if they are made from Pale Ore

[rough ingot]

I’m not actually sure

[whole holly]

they have similar markings character of items made from Pale Ore

Soul Vessel is only one not confirmed

Spool as well

could be both

extender is most likely Craftmetal only

it is rare resource

Sylphean Slug

this is seen in HK game twice, it might suggest something about ore formation

like egg of some kind

they are made by Ancient Civilization

because they were everywhere void was and their soul totems too

i mean in Pantheon of Pharloom Boss Rush DLC maybe we will get Seamstress, idk about Putrified Ducts one

i wish we got to fight shamans

Widow at her peak

[limpid summit]

People been saying they’re fossilized Wyrm eggs

But now pale being doesn’t just mean PK and WL

So they could be anything

[stray fog]

Both of these have some sort of branches around the egg

They might even be touching the egg, atleast in the first image

[whole holly]

these branches could be feeding on fossilized egg, maybe egg belonged to Pale Being?

[stray fog]

🤔

Team cherry please give us more lore 🙏

[whole holly]

or Ancient Being? since they are similar eggs and there are no species that all pale.. at least not what we know of....

[stray fog]

It would make sense because ancient masks are made of pale ore, while pale ore is rare af in the present

[whole holly]

if it takes long time to create it should be precious resource

[stray fog]

Maybe that's why the mask makers use pale lacquer instead of pale ore

[whole holly]

maybe Palesteel and Steel Clan's Steel is made from pale ore/oil

[stray fog]

Palesteel?

What's that

[whole holly]

hornet's needle is Pale Steel Needle

[stray fog]

(why do I not know this, as the #1 steel city fan)

[stray fog]

Isnt it hivesteel?

[whole holly]

yeah but it can be refined to Pale Steel Needle further

[stray fog]

Oh

[stray fog]

So pale oil is like a coating that makes things pale?

[whole holly]

sure, yeah, maybe, Pale Oil is Organic Resource, Pale Ore is Fossilized Ancient Egg

[stray fog]

I want to ask scoot to add liquid lacquer, palesteel, pale nails, and (maybe even) lumaflies and silkflies to the pale chart, but he isn't here anymore

[midnight zinc]

It likely soaks into the metal and strengthens it, but something about it and pale ore also allows a blacksmith to make them even sharper

[whole holly]

maybe Liquid lacquer is imitation of Pale Oil/Ore, since it is scarce

[whole holly]

why isn't he, though? do you have his as friend?

[stray fog]

Idk, and no

Ill try to add him

His dms are also closed

[whole holly]

wth, omg, why is he closed off, i was able to send it but he recently closed off everything

Pale Oil, Pale Ore, Liquid lacquer might have similar nature to each other, Paleness does something at least

[heady drift]

Hornet is a void

[whole holly]

your pfp is overstimulating

she is pretty much pale bug with lot of silk, that's all

[stray fog]

https://tenor.com/view/young-sheldon-fact-check-true-arrow-up-low-quality-gif-9150784016056164973

[heady drift]

Na

[stray fog]

Jokes aside, she isn't void

[heady drift]

She a void?

[whole holly]

what if Vessel arrived in Pharloom? would they be able to solve Pharloom's Issues like hornet did

[heady drift]

Who is Vessel

[whole holly]

that is knight's species

group more i guess

[heady drift]

This game has no lore

[whole holly]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Vessels

[whole holly]

kinda true

[heady drift]

Holow

[whole holly]

pretty similar to this

[stray fog]

Egg of the vessels?

[whole holly]

maybe it Pale Being Offspring's fossilized shell

[heavy gyro]

No unless it's the knight

Actually probably none of them

Because the vessels wouldn't be able to learn needolin

[trail thistle]

They could just sing instead

[quasi mortar]

wait, so, can anyone gimme a recap on what the lore subject here is? Cuz I DO play silksong and hollow knight (112% and 100%'d them both) but like, I'm new on discord, so I kinda need a recap about what we're talking about here.

[trail thistle]

I think the nature of pale ore / pale oil

[quasi mortar]

oh, ok

hold on, ok, so: I think pale oil is like fossil fuel, 'cuz like, the ore is just ORE, so what if they broke down the ore and turned it into oil? Like fossil fuel? But, I mean, I could be wrong. Anyway, some of the pale ore pieces seem to be placed in some sort of ball that looks like the eggs in the birthplace, now that I think about it, what are arcane eggs? Are they like, failed eggs of sorts?

oh, then I missed stuff, but I do think that arcane eggs are just like wierd ass failed eggs, IDK.

like, IDK, it's like how chickens flop making eggs sometimes, and make them wierd or just break them? IDK, I'm just trynna make sense real quick on what's going on.

but there must be a connection between the ore and the oil, unless team cherry just didn't think about it.

[heavy gyro]

No voice

[quasi mortar]

ok

oh wait, what if those rocks we saw were petrified glands or some stuff like that, except hallownest's crown, but like, it might be, since the slugs would have to be ancient for that to happen, but IDK, I'm just making stuff up to make sense.

[distant token]

sherma is jew

the citadel was promised 3000 years ago

to sherma

[pale narwhal]

wdym by failed eggs?
also theyre clearly not biological material since the ancient civilisation used them as multilayerd documents

i mean, could just be connection to Pale Beings

[quasi mortar]

like, the white lady gave birth to them, the eggs in the birthplace? Yeah, some are very small, so, like, what if she messed up at birth or them being in the womb? IDK, byee.

[pale narwhal]

thats got nothing to do with the arcane eggs

[quasi mortar]

yeah, that's what I'm saying

the big eggs look NEARLY IDENTICAL to the big eggs

so IDK

it might be

[pale narwhal]

the arcane eggs are stone relics that contain writing
they arent actual real eggs
theyre just egg shaped

[graceful grail]

It seems Sherma can bring up bench shrines by singing. Hornet doesn’t believe him though.

If Hornet has paid Rosaries to use a Bench before:

Sherma-
You see this idol before us, red maiden? I have passed its like before. They mark our pilgrimage well.
If we sing to it, a miraculous shrine will rise from the ground, and we will have a place to rest! Such a wonder!

Hornet: It is not song that rouses this shrine, but payment in rosaries. Without rosaries, the shrine remains hidden. I have encountered similar constructs on Pharloom's paths. This kingdom does not grant rest lightly.

[quasi mortar]

oh, right, nvm

[low oracle]

What is he trying to tell us?

[craggy smelt]

at the time, they probably wanted Shellwood to be safer for pilgrims to travel through

[gentle aspen]

?purge user 1280511226492751998 4

[gleaming basin]

Unable to find any messages.

[craggy smelt]

goodness

[iron trail]

hornet in both dream no more and sister of the void does a turn to see if the other with them is okay
in dream no more, when hornet wakes up and looks beside her to see the knights shell cracked in half
she does the turn because she wants to make sure she didn’t lose another person she truthfully cares for

thats atleast what i think

[unborn nova]

do you mean dream no more?
because in embrace the void, Hornet lookes at THK.

[iron trail]

right
dream no more

i get ending names mixed up

[halcyon merlin]

sister of the void

holy shit hornet ████ confirmed???

[barren crow]

Uhhhhhhh is there a theory on why Nuu and Unn's names are basically inverses of each other

[halcyon merlin]

TC being not good with names

it's like Gojo and Jogo

[barren crow]

Ah

Guys what if Nuu was actually a higher being wouldn't that be crazy unexpected twist

[halcyon merlin]

makes sense...

she uses hornet as a slave to fill her bestiary

just like a higher being

[barren crow]

Woah

[late rivet]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

What if hornet was a horn that et

[barren crow]

Doesn't Nuu several times hint about eating the bosses remains

[frosty gate]

What's the topic peopleeee

[graceful grail]

Why does sylphsong look like this?? It this what evas head looks like??

[low oracle]

Nope. Eva's head looks like this

Next to First Sinner.

[covert night]

peak art

[graceful grail]

Ho made dat

[quasi verge]

hmmm they are both slugs

[low oracle]

Google search images and there should be a reddit post.

[halcyon merlin]

did some messages get deleted

[graceful grail]

Also, was Lifeblood viewed as taboo during the Weaver Reign?? Eva says its Forbidden.

I guess we will know when the DLC comes out in 2028

[limpid summit]

I mean it’s actively killing wormways

I think she just doesn’t want to risk it

[halcyon merlin]

it would've been funny

[stray fog]

Yes

[marble oasis]

i guess she can sense the state of the wormways

[halcyon merlin]

if there was an ending where hornet is plasmified

[stray fog]

Its forbidden, so I think the Weavers knew about its effects

[marble oasis]

that’s widow

[graceful grail]

She can normally get plasmified

[halcyon merlin]

i mean

[stray fog]

On the left

[halcyon merlin]

it infecting her

[stray fog]

Not completely

[halcyon merlin]

but i guess that's pretty much cursed ending 2.0

[graceful grail]

Can you get plasmified while cursed with the lifeblood pods??

[stray fog]

You can't get enough lifeblood phials on the witch crest

[halcyon merlin]

can you even get plasmified normally with the pods only

[low oracle]

There is also the left side...

[halcyon merlin]

wait

are u talking about the tool

[graceful grail]

No

[halcyon merlin]

i thought you meant the bags of lifeblood

what

[graceful grail]

These

[halcyon merlin]

yes

[graceful grail]

Is there enough to get PBlood without the vials

You need 9 lifeblood masks and there are only 3 pods. Thats 6 masks

[halcyon merlin]

well if u use some sort of glitch it certainly should be possible

[craggy smelt]

nope, you need to use the vial

take drugs

[muted lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/silksong-plasmium-injection-trans-hrt-gif-6853015624344818190

[edgy nebula]

hornet injects herself with lean

[muted lantern]

I think i genuinely need to keep myself out of #sk-discussion

[muted lantern]

Can't believe hornet is racist, homophobic, and a drug addict

[barren crow]

What

[chilly sonnet]

wait is magnets blue?

[halcyon merlin]

sounds right

drug addict - plasmium overdosing
homophobic - killing cogwork dancers and green prince

but what's the racist one?

[muted lantern]

Advocating for slabfly genocide

[halcyon merlin]

[lapis creek]

if only she were just an advocate

[twilit crest]

Sorry 😭

[muted lantern]

Why do you think I'm talking about you specifically lol. I'm talking about the entire fiasco

[twilit crest]

Just felt bad

[spark valve]

don't forget her white savior complex

[sinful nimbus]

One of these things is not like the other

[lapis creek]

@stray grove is pk bad because of his white saviour complex

[spark valve]

also true

[lapis creek]

we will learn in 6 hours

[sinful nimbus]

#1 PK fan here, he doesn't have a "white savior complex"

[spark valve]

no he's not doing the 'oh I'm not like them' thing he's just being chill and making a kingdom

[halcyon merlin]

i think hornet agrees with black lives matter actually

you dee

hornet kills gms

who neglected phantom because she was black

but then you could say hornet is racist because she gets rid of the void

which then my point is lost

[lapis creek]

his entire premise is that "they" are already dead and hallownest is the last remaining kingdom

[sinful nimbus]

GMS and Lace are too... 🤔

[lapis creek]

he also sends his military to battle against blackwyrms

[halcyon merlin]

they are mostly white

[gentle aspen]

😐

[halcyon merlin]

sorry

its just that it became funny with how everything was going

[sinful nimbus]

Phantom was probably white before being discarded

[spark valve]

even if that was a wyrm which is unlikely the reason for the fight was probably not because of its color

[halcyon merlin]

yes

she had silk supply

[stray fog]

Top 10 lore conversations of all time
Right after that maggot racism discussion

[halcyon merlin]

what even was that

[lapis creek]

i've heard it all before

[stray fog]

People were discussing whether the pale king was evil for not fixing maggot racism in hallownest

[halcyon merlin]

oh

that guys

[crystal marsh]

i mean you can't "fix" racism in the sense that you can just prevent it entirely

because that's not how racism...works

[covert night]

(pls dont turn this channel into sk discussion i actually like reading whats written here)

[stray fog]

Yeah I dont want to do this again

[stray fog]

What happened in sk discussion

[spark valve]

silksong fans

[sinful nimbus]

you don't want to know... oh the horror

[lapis creek]

if the population got too racist could pk turn his beacon off and on again and simply reeducate the entire population from the ground up

[sinful nimbus]

I've been saying it for months haunt all the racists

[halcyon merlin]

dipshit.img

[spark valve]

idk if that would work that way

[stray fog]

Can he turn off his beacon

[spark valve]

but it would be an immensely destructive thing to do if it did

[stray fog]

It didn't turn off even after he died

[halcyon merlin]

yeah

you can dream nail them for dialogue so like

they still have conscience

[lapis creek]

surely

[stray fog]

I thought those were his last words / thoughts

[halcyon merlin]

are you talking about pk

or the bugs infected

i am talking about the infected bugs

[stray fog]

All dreamnailed corpses in general

[stray fog]

Oh

[halcyon merlin]

ah

[stray fog]

Yeah those are still "alive" (kinda)

[halcyon merlin]

so it probably can't be turned off

maybe he can do something similar to gms though

like how she binds the weavers to get her silk or whatever back

[stray fog]

He wouldn't want to absorb his own citizens

[halcyon merlin]

yeah im just mentioning an alternative

[spark valve]

pk probably actually had infinite soul unlike gms who is uh weak and sad

[halcyon merlin]

[stray fog]

Maybe gms not having infinite silk is caused by her sharing her silk
(sharing it in the way that she created more beings who could use silk)

[sinful nimbus]

woah woah PK was also sad

[spark valve]

yeah but he's strong and sad

well

was

now he's dead

[lucid knot]

You think Injector Band hurts to use?
I would hope Hornet modified it as to be less painful for her demigod body.

[halcyon merlin]

i don't think it is that bad

if it needed all that thing from the doctor to try to penetrate her shell

was it her shell or body? i forgot actually

[lucid knot]

Injector Band, the tool that increases Bind speed.

Yarnaby wanted Steel Spines.

[halcyon merlin]

my point is that injector band probably doesn't even hurt her

if it does its probably minor?

[covert night]

injector band is not used to remove a parasite from body

[lucid knot]

Its description mentions forcefully inserting silk into the patient.

[halcyon merlin]

you guys don't see my point!!

[lucid knot]

I would speculate Injector Band not hurting as much when weaving silk into the body to heal flesh & patch wounds is second nature for her + she's a demigod... but... uh... the Whiteward kind of scares me.

[pale narwhal]

well no because youre talking about something completely different

[gentle aspen]

probably hurts as much to use as a military grade sandevistan hurts david to use

[covert night]

we don't know how hornet uses tools too

like how does she use sawtooth circlet

that probably hurts too

[halcyon merlin]

I'd guess she attaches it into her cloak