sk-lore

[kindred ingot]

it would be hard, but it would be cool

[rough ingot]

We don’t need the equivalent of any rad here

Also why would we fight it

[kindred ingot]

the Knight fought Hornet, it's time for Hornet to fight the Knight

[rough ingot]

If the knight is the revered god, and saves their sister at the end of the SotV ending

Can’t they just flat out disobey godseeker and tank Hornet?

Or avoid her

[kindred ingot]

the same reason we fight Oro, Mato, Sheo, and Sly
it's how things work in Godhome

[rough ingot]

Yes it’s how things work

But uhh

If the shade lord blitzed the radiance with their bare hands

They’d need some serious nerfs to make it even fair for Hornet

[kindred ingot]

considering how the Knight reacts to Godhome in Hollow Knight, it probably wouldn't

[rough ingot]

Their strike speed is obscene, their reach is excessive

[kindred ingot]

yeah, it'd be really holding back during the fight

like Grimm

[rough ingot]

And probably would whip you for 4 masks of damage

[rough ingot]

Nightmare king probably didnt hold back

[kindred ingot]

yeah but regular Grimm did
considering we were in the Dream Realm, he could've just turned into NKG if he wanted to

[rough ingot]

Hornet will die to this

[kindred ingot]

then the Knight won't use this

[rough ingot]

I think he needed the close proxy to the nightmare heart to do that

[rough ingot]

It’s the only attack we know the shade lord has

[blissful harbor]

TK vs hornet won’t happen cause hornet cant get embarrassed in her own game

[kindred ingot]

the Nightmare Heart was also there

[rough ingot]

Not in Grimm’s tent bro

[kindred ingot]

the Knight can do nail slashes, nail arts, and 3 spells

[rough ingot]

Well, savage beastfly and groal

[rough ingot]

The shade lord doesn’t have a nail, you’ll never find one big enough

Sure the spells but uhh

[blissful harbor]

she defeats them first try canonically
she lost to TK twice in canon, and will continue to make it a third time

[kindred ingot]

it could just shape some Void into a nail

[kindred ingot]

there's no "canonically"

if you lost to them, she lost to them

[blissful harbor]

tf you mean

[rough ingot]

Sure but, the knight’s nail is quite large in comparison ti them

[limpid summit]

Huh

If you lost to them she died

[blissful harbor]

hornet does not die in canon
she cannot respawn

she one tries everything

[rough ingot]

Steel soul exists guys

[kindred ingot]

then comes back on the last bench she rested on

[limpid summit]

That’s for gameplay

[blissful harbor]

she doesn’t

[rough ingot]

Some people argue about foresight and stuff

[limpid summit]

So the game isn’t entirely steel soul

[kindred ingot]

you can't deny that the cocoon is a physical object

[rough ingot]

But I think the cocoon and shade are canon, not the bench part

[limpid summit]

The foresight theory is a funny little thing but it’s unsubstantiated

[rough ingot]

G A M E P L A Y

[limpid summit]

The shade is canonically inside TK and that’s what it would do

Cocoon who knows

[blissful harbor]

yes when she dies she probably leaves a cocoon, similar to how when TK dies they leave a shade
that doesn’t mean TK comes back, same way she doesn’t

[rough ingot]

GMS is powerful and in fights she is so ass it’s terrible

I personally think higher beings aren’t naturally suited to combat

[kindred ingot]

then how do we get the Shade entry on the Hunter's Journal?

[limpid summit]

She just woke up

But she is weak yes

[blissful harbor]

it’s auto unlocked even if you’ve never killed your shade

we call thst gameplay my friend

[rough ingot]

Cuz Gms mostly spends her time dragging the cradle down on you

[kindred ingot]

it's not on Steel Soul

also, Silkeaters

[rough ingot]

And the radiance throws pencils and stuff at you

[kindred ingot]

and Jiji

[rough ingot]

G A M E P L A Y

[limpid summit]

Canonically do something else

They just lead you to Silk

[rough ingot]

Sashimi please

[blissful harbor]

jiji doesn’t interact with Tk after death, her ritual is real but her interaction with TK isn’t

[kindred ingot]

wtfdym???

[blissful harbor]

like, if respawning is canon

[kindred ingot]

???

[blissful harbor]

you have a whole can of worms to explain

[kindred ingot]

those things happen, we see them happen

[rough ingot]

Wyrms

[limpid summit]

All of Jiji’s dialogue is about regrets and all of the Silkeater flavor text is about sensing Silk

[blissful harbor]

don’t know whats confusing about that

[rough ingot]

Since they’re both Wyrm spawn

[kindred ingot]

it happens ON SCREEN

[limpid summit]

We also see the names of bosses appear in the bottom right

[kindred ingot]

that's the UI

[limpid summit]

These things are purposefully kept ambiguous so they can exist logically in the world

[rough ingot]

P l e a s e

[blissful harbor]

after Tk dies
her ritual does not literally summon the shade of a vessel, who is currently shadows cause it died, to kill

[rough ingot]

Gameplay isn’t lore

[blissful harbor]

TK is dead for thst interaction to happen, do you understand

[kindred ingot]

it happens

we see it happening

[blissful harbor]

oh my god

[kindred ingot]

on screen

[rough ingot]

Like the absolute radiance is at the peak of their power

[kindred ingot]

you can't just deny that it happened

[blissful harbor]

clearly since we see the title menu it must be canon

it does happen

[kindred ingot]

that's UI

it's different

[rough ingot]

But uhh, if team cherry wanted us to suffer they would have put Anyrad into the game

If they wanted us to hate ourselves for dying

[blissful harbor]

in a non canon scenario
TK is literally a walking corpse with no shade inside for thst ritual to happen
it’s makes no sense

[rough ingot]

Make the whole game steel soul

[blissful harbor]

vessels don’t do that, if a vessel loses its shade it dies

[rough ingot]

Yes

[limpid summit]

Why do bosses like Grimm who talk to you not mention if you die in front of them

[rough ingot]

We see that everywhere

[blissful harbor]

they don’t walk around with another shade as backup, and another one just walking around

[rough ingot]

Could be just… idk at this point

[limpid summit]

The point of Hornet Sentinel is to make sure you aren’t weak and can bear the mantle of King

If you just die to her she’d probably mention that

[blissful harbor]

hornet wondering why this exact vessel keeps coming back, even though she saw it’s shade

[kindred ingot]

the Shade is an enemy we kill, has an entry on the Hunter's Journal, and is mentioned by other characters

[limpid summit]

Gameplay

[kindred ingot]

saying it's "not canon" is just wrong

[rough ingot]

…

[blissful harbor]

the shade exists canonically, yes

[rough ingot]

Shade is canon

[limpid summit]

The Radiance hunter’s journal entry is noncanon

[rough ingot]

Waking up on a bench after dying isn’t

[foggy fractal]

how do we get radiance journal 🧌

[blissful harbor]

it does not interact with Tk canonically
because it LITERALLY CANT

[kindred ingot]

and the Knight interacting with its own shade is also a thing that happens and is mentioned by other npcs

[rough ingot]

I thought I was the most stubborn person in this chat

[blissful harbor]

it’s mentioned by Jiji, in a ritual that ive been explaining

something something hk fans and reading

[kindred ingot]

Jiji talks about how the Knight deals with its own regrets or smth like that

[rough ingot]

We know vassals of the steel city can manipulate void

[blissful harbor]

oh my god chat am i on mute???

[rough ingot]

Evidence being Sula and Jiji

[rough ingot]

No I can see you

I comprehend

[kindred ingot]

no you're not

[limpid summit]

Ah, you seem to have made peace with your regrets in a most novel, and dare I say brutal, fashion. What a joy to behold.

This isn’t something she canonically says to TK

If TK can see its own shade then what is animating it

[rough ingot]

It’s just for gameplay really

[kindred ingot]

WDYM???? IT HAPPENS

[limpid summit]

Yes

[blissful harbor]

it doesn’t canonically

[rough ingot]

It’s probably the shade piloting the knight too

[limpid summit]

The Radiance hunters journal entry also happens

[kindred ingot]

IT HAPPENS ON SCREEN RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU, WHAT DO YOU MEAN IT'S NOT CANON?

[limpid summit]

Tons of games have noncanon respawning

[blissful harbor]

why are there two shades

that’s not how vessels work

[limpid summit]

What happens when you die in Zelda

[rough ingot]

As we control it in 2 (3 if you count etv as 2 with flower quest ending)

[foggy fractal]

zelda dies

[blissful harbor]

IT HAPPENS WITH A DEAD CORPSE
THERE IS NOTHIGN ANIMATING TK TO DO THE RITUAL

[kindred ingot]

idk I don't play Zelda

[blissful harbor]

it cannot happen in canon

[rough ingot]

You revive at your last save

[limpid summit]

You respawn

Yes

[blissful harbor]

that is what canonically means

[limpid summit]

Link doesn’t have magic resurrection power

[rough ingot]

I play enough zelda

[rough ingot]

Fairies

[limpid summit]

Well yes

[kindred ingot]

does Link meet and kill his own ghost in an action that is mentioned by other characters?

[rough ingot]

Correct

[limpid summit]

But once you get the “You died” message

[rough ingot]

Link doesn’t

[sinful nimbus]

Corpserun

[rough ingot]

What game do I use as an example

[kindred ingot]

is that in Zelda?

[limpid summit]

Ts not undertale 💔

[blissful harbor]

mentioned by Jiji btw, now characters plural just one

[rough ingot]

I’ve played SS, TP, BotW, LA, TotK

[sinful nimbus]

No but corpseruns are just a fairly common game mechanic and Jiji doesn't acknowledge respawning in any meaningful way

[limpid summit]

Jiji mentions the Shade because her gameplay mechanic revolves around it

[foggy fractal]

why are the corpses running ? are they alive ?

[limpid summit]

It’s for the benefit of the player

[kindred ingot]

Hunter gives the Shade an entry, which means he is aware of the Knight killing it

[blissful harbor]

anyways the biggest problem with respawning being canon is that it just doesn’t make sense

[limpid summit]

Again she talks about regrets

[rough ingot]

Please

[limpid summit]

Not exactly

[blissful harbor]

hunter doesn’t even speak of the shade

[rough ingot]

Just admit defeat

[sinful nimbus]

The shade entry isn't about the shade go read it

[limpid summit]

“Each of us leaves an imprint on the world.”

[random harbor]

Hunter's Journal: Shade

Description:
Echo of a previous life. Defeat it to retake its power and become whole.

Hunter's notes:
Each of us leaves an imprint of something when we die. A stain on the world. I don't know how much longer this kingdom can bear the weight of so many past lives...

@starpengu used /journal name: Shade

[limpid summit]

When Hunter muses in his entry he hasn’t seen the thing

[sinful nimbus]

The hunter's notes are literally just a random musing of his

[rough ingot]

Yes

[limpid summit]

It’s probably just a little aside

A lot of journal entries are like that

For things he hasn’t seen

[blissful harbor]

TK assigns it to what creature best fits

[rough ingot]

It’s closer to what someone of the steel city would say

[stark loom]

Yooo Wsp

[spark valve]

Most bosses, siblings, etc

[rough ingot]

Someone’s arguing about the death mechanic

[kindred ingot]

anyway, you can't just say it "canonically" doesn't happen because unless you somehow managed to beat Hollow Knight without dying even once on your first playthrough, it did happen

[blissful harbor]

anyways the biggest problem with respawning, is again it just doesn’t make sense

[limpid summit]

I do wonder how he’s seen death Loodles (T3) but not Oblobbles (T2)

[rough ingot]

This ain’t undertale or ultrakill

[limpid summit]

Maybe he’s been backstage but not to the big breeding pits

[blissful harbor]

yes you can die
dying is apart of the game

[spark valve]

It didn’t happen diegetically no

[blissful harbor]

however, in universe
in canon

you cannot die, if you die

well youre dead

no second chances

[foggy fractal]

then what is canon ? 64 deaths ? 500 deaths ? 1 death ?

[rough ingot]

YOU ARE A SHADE IN THE ABYSS LIKE THE REST OF YOUR FANILY

[rough ingot]

1

[kindred ingot]

it depends on how many times you died on your save file

[spark valve]

It’s a video game it has game mechanics that go against how things happen in universe, quitting to menu isn’t a thing that happens in universe to teleport the knight to a bench or other location that sets your respawn

[kindred ingot]

cuz this shit is not a book, it's a game you play

[foggy fractal]

well i died 0 times cuz im an epic gamer

😎

[kindred ingot]

we're not talking about a tv series, we're talking about a video game

[sinful nimbus]

I didn't play Hollow Knight what now

[limpid summit]

The only NPC that mentions respawning is the NPC who is built around the mechanic of respawning, who is completely absent in the game if you remove respawning

[kindred ingot]

good for you

[rough ingot]

Like respawns in some games. I have played a game where respawning is A KEY MECHANIC AND THE GOAL OF THE GAME

[sinful nimbus]

We're talking about the story of a video game

[spark valve]

Based alert?

[limpid summit]

Ellina meets Jiji and Jiji doesn’t tell her she can bring bugs back from the dead

[sinful nimbus]

Obviously respawning is a game mechanic in HK we know that its just not canon

[rough ingot]

Some games have canon resplendent

Respawn

[limpid summit]

The groal

[foggy fractal]

the hollow knight.exe is gonna get u

[kindred ingot]

exactly
of a video game
this detail is highly relevant to what is "canon" or not

[sinful nimbus]

No its not

[rough ingot]

Undertale has a canon respawn system

[limpid summit]

Bro what 😭

[blissful harbor]

how

by that logic the menu is canon

[sinful nimbus]

Obviously not everything shown in the game is canon

[rough ingot]

The menu isn’t canon

[spark valve]

The knight watching the hud float around following it

[sinful nimbus]

Is HK being a video game canon to its story

[rough ingot]

Like the fricking twisted child ending, which is probably the worst idea

[marble oasis]

As far as I’m concerned benches aren’t canon

[sinful nimbus]

Is it all a simulation

[limpid summit]

If respawning (gameplay mechanic for convenience) is canon what makes this noncanon

[marble oasis]

It is canon?

[limpid summit]

Address me

[rough ingot]

No

[kindred ingot]

what is "canon"?
"canon" is a very vague word
there is no such thing as a "lore bible" with the entire canon written perfectly on i- wait there is.
...
BUT, we don't have access to it

[blissful harbor]

TK actually does see a big inspect sign above things

[rough ingot]

Yea yea

And listen

[sinful nimbus]

What is canon is what happens in the story its not that deep

[rough ingot]

And rest

[crimson patio]

Not everything in a game has lore attached to it

Like those damn wind walls in HK
Obviously TK and Quirrel can leave Hallownest fine before why would it be a problem now?

It is just there to keep you inside Hallownest

[spark valve]

It must be really confused

[sinful nimbus]

Respawning doesn't happen in the story

[limpid summit]

True

[marble oasis]

Well…

[foggy fractal]

oh yeah the made by team cherry and then ari gibson william pellen etc at the start is also canon i think

[limpid summit]

Well Quirrel can’t

[rough ingot]

Yes that’s true

[limpid summit]

Lmao

Bum

[marble oasis]

It could also be a Wyrm thing

[sinful nimbus]

Its them sylphs man

[rough ingot]

Gameplay and lore have discrepancies

[rough ingot]

I’ve seen this before

[blissful harbor]

salubra working overtime

[rough ingot]

Pattern recognition

[limpid summit]

PK writing a tablet saying “don’t leave!” while his wind forces bugs to stay anyway

[spark valve]

There are winds blowing to Hallownest but they’re not actually strong enough to stop you leaving

[kindred ingot]

there is no such thing as a "canon" Hollow Knight run where all the "canon" stuff happens

[spark valve]

It’s just a way of making the invisible wall less obtrusive

[limpid summit]

Not yet no

But some things undeniably happen

[marble oasis]

It makes them think their body is subconsciously obeying their King

[rough ingot]

Like beating any ending and waking up on a bench

[sinful nimbus]

What are you waffling about

[crimson patio]

There’s a big word in a foreign language that looks like “interact” and an arrow 2 ft underground obviously!

[limpid summit]

Bosses like Traitor Lord, Soul Master have to die

[blissful harbor]

well sure, that doesn’t change the fact TK doesn’t die

[sinful nimbus]

"Respawning isn't canon"
"Uh yeah well NOTHING is canon" 😭 🙏

[kindred ingot]

I'm talking about how the Knight respawning is a thing that happens because it happens and that the word "canon" is badly-defined

[foggy fractal]

if everything is canon... then nothing is...

[sinful nimbus]

Its not

[foggy fractal]

TUFF.

[limpid summit]

https://tenor.com/view/universe-zoom-out-dont-care-earth-zoom-out-to-universe-gif-26654664

[rough ingot]

What’s happening now

[sinful nimbus]

It doesn't happen in the story its not that deep

[limpid summit]

“Does it matter”

[kindred ingot]

it happens in the game you play

[rough ingot]

I’m. Lost.

[kindred ingot]

Hollow Knight is not a book

it's a game

[sinful nimbus]

OK and

We're in the lore channel vro

[limpid summit]

So do giant UI indicators

[blissful harbor]

which has a story believe it or not

[sinful nimbus]

We're here to talk lore not gameplay mechanics

[limpid summit]

This isn’t #sk-game

[foggy fractal]

aw

[limpid summit]

Haha! We got em there

[kindred ingot]

the story isn't a book either

[rough ingot]

Hes

[marble oasis]

You know what

Fuck it

[blissful harbor]

and as most stories go, there are a sequence of events
thst cant happen if TK dies

[kindred ingot]

it's a story in a game

[crimson patio]

Yea it’s not a book, it’s a game that’s why discrepancies between gameplay mechanics and lore exist!!!!

[marble oasis]

The Knight isn’t canon

[rough ingot]

That’s why lore channels and gameplay channels are separate

[sinful nimbus]

Why does it existing in a game mean respawning is canon

[blissful harbor]

bro i’m ngl
what even is your point

[kindred ingot]

it won't fit neatly into what most people think of when they hear the word story

[sinful nimbus]

Thats nonsensical

[kindred ingot]

because it's a game

[rough ingot]

If this was a book the knight would first try everything. For the sakes of the story it won’t respawn

[kindred ingot]

THINGS HAPPEN WHEN THEY HAPPEN AND SAYING OTHERWISE IS STUPID

[blissful harbor]

????

[foggy fractal]

idk man they look pretty similar to me

[rough ingot]

Dude

[kindred ingot]

THE KNIGHT DOES RESPAWN BECAUSE IT RESPAWNS

[blissful harbor]

no one is saying otherwise
TK is able to die in a playthrough, they are also able to use Jijis ritual in a way that doesn’t make sense
these are gameplay features

[kindred ingot]

IT'S A THING THAT HAPPENS

[blissful harbor]

because it is a game

[kindred ingot]

THEREFORE

[crimson patio]

If this story acts like a book it would be called an interactive novel!

Knight turns on debug mod and make itself invincible cuz it’s simply goated

[sinful nimbus]

Gameplay taking priority over story is very common

[kindred ingot]

IT HAPPENS

[sinful nimbus]

Guy who's only played Hollow Knight:

[spark valve]

This isn’t even a ludonarrative dissonance thing it’s just not understanding what a narrative is

[foggy fractal]

london?

[rough ingot]

Totally canon, and inventory dropping, and abyss shriek pogo

[foggy fractal]

oh mb

[blissful harbor]

TK is also able to menu pause, it’s able to do invincibility glitches, etv

[limpid summit]

Do you think the whole entire world winks out whenever TK enters a door

[blissful harbor]

do these all actually happen cause we can do it ingame?!

[rough ingot]

And whatever the heck I did to my godhome

[sinful nimbus]

ETV slander 🗣️

God bless

[blissful harbor]

lmao

love that typo it’s staying

[rough ingot]

I said etv

[kindred ingot]

not if your brightness is high enough

[spark valve]

Installing debug is a thing I can do therefore every possible consequence is canon

[crimson patio]

Oh yes totally it can swing a nail on the soul spell and pogo off of it

[rough ingot]

Etcc

[marble oasis]

TK can do wallcling storage because it’s just that goated

[foggy fractal]

enough etv slander can we glaze dnm instead?

[limpid summit]

Hornet is able to kill Karmelita

Not everything is canon

[limpid summit]

Lugoli was fat

[sinful nimbus]

That is actually canon though

[rough ingot]

I used invincibility

Actually my bro did

[marble oasis]

Strangest agenda I’ve ever seen

[spark valve]

Godhome is in a dream so whatever

[sinful nimbus]

OK well that ain't

[rough ingot]

And did all the pantheons all bindings

[kindred ingot]

what even defines what is canon and what isn't?

[limpid summit]

I meant for the fourth heart

[rough ingot]

He made me bro

[blissful harbor]

what happens in the story of the game

[kindred ingot]

Jiji and her ritual is part of the plot
why wouldn't it also be part of the story?

[rough ingot]

UI and gameplay stuff not explicitly stated, like Frisk in canon is able to respawn

[limpid summit]

What makes sense in the game beyond gameplay + supplementary materials

[rough ingot]

Since it is said

[blissful harbor]

her ritual just doesn’t work the way TK uses it

[rough ingot]

“Asgore killed you countless times@

Guys I’m on a phone rn and I can’t spell

[blissful harbor]

like she offers it to Ellina

[crimson patio]

Y know what else is canon? That’s right, the knight can move a random cursor around like an ouija board

Digital tablets canon in hallownest….

[blissful harbor]

and no offense to ellina but she’s not exactly void

[kindred ingot]

how do you know? we only see it being used once, and it's doing that
why would it do anything else when we explicitly see it doing that?

[sinful nimbus]

Are we taking the piss why are we asking what canon means

[blissful harbor]

summon a shade is clearly just not how the ritual works

[blissful harbor]

read my messages

[sinful nimbus]

You're arguing against a word you don't know the definition of 😭 🙏

[rough ingot]

And TAS bots too

[blissful harbor]

i explain myself, if you read

[kindred ingot]

the ritual is done, and it summons a shade
that's what it does

[rough ingot]

And sly’s accurate hitbox for great slash until the most recent patch

[crimson patio]

TK can clip through walls it’s canon

[blissful harbor]

for TK

[rough ingot]

And can walk underwater

[blissful harbor]

it doesn’t normally, because idk if you noticed, void creatures aren’t exactly common

[marble oasis]

isn’t it summoning void

like what the little fuck in ss does

[blissful harbor]

omg zor

[marble oasis]

what’s his name

[limpid summit]

Do you think even within the bounds of normal mode Silkeaters canonically teleport the cocoon straight to you

[kindred ingot]

it is a thing the ritual can do, because we see it doing that

[limpid summit]

Cause that’s what appears in the game

[blissful harbor]

keneontntnfn

[spark valve]

No she’s a confessor

She summons manifestations of your regrets so you can face them

[limpid summit]

She probably can summon void

[rough ingot]

@crimson patio

[limpid summit]

But she doesn’t

Otherwise Ellina wouldn’t have met her

[crimson patio]

They are magical! Ofc they can teleport the cocoon to you

[marble oasis]

No it uhhh goes and finds the cocoon and unwinds it and brings it back to you

[limpid summit]

Sharpe would have killed her

[blissful harbor]

actually hes, vassals can summon void
but it’s not something TK can do

[rough ingot]

Honestly the most reasonable stuff

[limpid summit]

Sub 2 seconds

[rough ingot]

Guys we solved the lore of everything

[marble oasis]

Sharpe is DEAD

[limpid summit]

Silkeater top of the verse

[potent timber]

A Vassal Lost

[kindred ingot]

idk, Silkeaters are weird and so is everything relating to Styx
but it does happen

[limpid summit]

No it isn’t

Styx is a bum Skynx is a Nosk

[marble oasis]

void:

[blissful harbor]

in order for it to go to jiji, it’s approaching her as a completely empty shell with nothing animating it
that just doesn’t make sense

[kindred ingot]

and TK doesn't do it

[blissful harbor]

not canonically
because it cant

it is dead

[kindred ingot]

Skynx doesn't look like a Nosk

[kindred ingot]

...

I give up

I fucking give up

[rough ingot]

FINALLY

[blissful harbor]

i should be the one giving up tf

[marble oasis]

Silkeater vs Sukuna

[kindred ingot]

I don't care about any of this shit anymore

[blissful harbor]

i refuse to be treated like i’m the crazy person here wtf

[crimson patio]

Silkeaters are canonically the most powerful thing in the universe cuz even PV only teleport a short distance with void? Meanwhile the silkeaters can teleport your cocoon from the other side of the kingdom to you in a second

[rough ingot]

You aren’t

[sinful nimbus]

I'll never give any of you up

[crimson patio]

Overpowered pls nerf them TC

[rough ingot]

Hahaha

And jiji can summon your shade from anywhere

[foggy fractal]

even me ? 🥹

[kindred ingot]

I hate this damn game

[rough ingot]

Get enough vassals and we can summon the shade lord itself

[kindred ingot]

I'm gonna go play Hungry Knight, it doesn't have any of this Shade bullshit

[sinful nimbus]

Would I let you down andy

[rough ingot]

…

Go play dark souls then

[fresh badger]

Silkeaters are gms's first attempt at children since they have silken sense like gms's silken sight

[sinful nimbus]

wtf no armored core

[marble oasis]

GODSEEKER WAS ABLE TO SUMMON HIM IN A PIT! WITH A GODTUNER MADE OF SCRAPS

[blissful harbor]

dark souls corpse run is actually apart of the lore
i think idk dark souls lore

[rough ingot]

Well, that was in the godhome itself where the actual godseekers are compiled

[spark valve]

Sort of but even it handwaves shit

[rough ingot]

Godseeker tuning is supposedly powerful

We got absolute radiance out of it, and THK got their arm back

[crimson patio]

Nah that’s its pure essence

[rough ingot]

Says the THK fan

Who happens to be an art god

[crimson patio]

THK’s body is cooked cooked in that temple

But its pure essence remains

[rough ingot]

THK is crippled

[kindred ingot]

a white worm emmiting blinding light and giving bugs the ability to open bank accounts: perfectly fine and canon
something we see happening right in front of us: not canon and should not be considered

[rough ingot]

Friends of mine don’t know the hollow knight. They call the knight the hollow knight and I always reply with “the cripple”?

You mean the knight right?

[blissful harbor]

can you explain respawning?

how does TK move around with no shade

[limpid summit]

Start Noticing

[rough ingot]

Gameplay

[blissful harbor]

how does it get two shades

[marble oasis]

unironically yeah

[rough ingot]

Gameplay

[blissful harbor]

why does it have infinite actually, you can keep dying after dying

[spark valve]

It’s probably bait atp

[rough ingot]

Just gameplay

[crimson patio]

Ur right English is canon in hallownest

This only further proves that they are bugs in TC’s backyard in Australia…..

[sinful nimbus]

this reminds me I saw a meme of DS2 slander and it randomly brought up HK1 as one of the best soulslikes of all time 🥀

[kindred ingot]

...I hate my fucking life

[limpid summit]

Where does the Geo go if you die to your own Shade

My chud shade life…

[blissful harbor]

i mean you could answer the question, would make it seem like less bait tbh

[rough ingot]

Hornet lance throw statistic

[spark valve]

Inside the feeble mind of a ds2 hater

[sinful nimbus]

TRUE

[kindred ingot]

idk, where does the Kingsoul's outer shell go when it turns into the Void Heart?

[limpid summit]

Breaks

[blissful harbor]

it breaks apart

[limpid summit]

Wdym

[kindred ingot]

where does the Void in the Kingsoul come from?

[blissful harbor]

we see the animation

[rough ingot]

Eaten since it’s soul

[limpid summit]

TK

[rough ingot]

I have no idea that’s puzzled me since I got it

[limpid summit]

Kingsoul cutscene is a metaphor

[crimson patio]

Ccmaci has a pretty good video theorizing on that actually

Recommended

[blissful harbor]

ccmaci mentioned

[rough ingot]

Maybe but redditors accredit it to foresight

[kindred ingot]

how did it get in?

[limpid summit]

It’s not literally inside

Kingsoul is a metaphor for the Vessels

Soul of Wyrm soul of Root

Heart of Void

[rough ingot]

How does the king soul, the union between 2 pale beings, create the shade lord with enough power

[crimson patio]

So profound

[rough ingot]

Ccmaci at least has his speculation tag

Mossbag needs one

[crimson patio]

It transforms itself by the will of its bearer!

[rough ingot]

Some of his theories, are odd

[limpid summit]

The gravity of TK’s situation allows it to merge its own void with the Kingsoul basically making it the center of the void mind

It’s like how we create a void spell

[kindred ingot]

it's a physical object that does physical things and follows the laws of (HK) physics as much as any other object in Hollow Knight

[rough ingot]

I need elaboration. Team cherry please abyss expansion from kickstarter

[limpid summit]

It’s a charm 💔

[blissful harbor]

it’s a charm made by two gods that gives you infinite soul
it’s not really an ordinary object

[kindred ingot]

charms are physical objects

we can buy them

we can pick them up

[crimson patio]

Some charms literally spawn from dead bug’s last will they’re literally magical wdym physical

[kindred ingot]

they're objects

[rough ingot]

Some are some aren’t

[kindred ingot]

but it is an object

[crimson patio]

Just because they can be touched doesn’t mean there isn’t magic involved in them

[blissful harbor]

they are physical objects hes, that doesn’t make them any less magical

[rough ingot]

Or does the knight devour them in the void

[blissful harbor]

a magical object

[rough ingot]

And use their power remanent on the notches

[kindred ingot]

I never said there wasn't

[blissful harbor]

so what is your point

[rough ingot]

Channel for bizzare ideas and speculation

And huge arguments

[crimson patio]

So then why do you doubt magical things can happen to them?

[rough ingot]

Like the tools system has more of a physical basis than the charms system

[crimson patio]

If you can’t explain something with science in HK the answer is most often time “it’s magic”

[rough ingot]

Multiple kinds of magic, explained and unexplained exist

[kindred ingot]

the point is: the Kingsoul is not a "metaphor", it's an object that occupies space, can be touched, and has an inside that is unexplicably full of Void

[limpid summit]

It does not

The Kingsoul splits apart to reveal void heart

[rough ingot]

One of my favorite gameplay theories in general is HOW THE HECK CAN THE MAIN PROTAGONIST FIT SO MUCH IN THEIR INVENTORY

[limpid summit]

Whe I say something is a metaphor that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist

[kindred ingot]

which means it is inside of the Kingsoul

[rough ingot]

Like magic pocket

[crimson patio]

It’s almost like it’s for storytelling purposes and a physical thing can carry metaphors
Hmmmmm

[limpid summit]

Some charms are metaphors

[blissful harbor]

kingsoul is a metaphor
it being a physical object doesn’t change that???

[rough ingot]

Also bye chat

Nice chatting

[limpid summit]

Adios

[blissful harbor]

it’s literally a vessel but in charm form
not literally but yk what i mean

[limpid summit]

White Lady wonders what is at the heart of the Kingsoul

It isn’t just void

[kindred ingot]

charms follow basic laws of physics and geometry
liquids can't just faze through an object

[spark valve]

Depending on the liquids they can in HK

[kindred ingot]

Void isn't one of them as far as we know

[spark valve]

Void is the one that does it the most

[limpid summit]

Void is the only one

[blissful harbor]

shade cloak

[kindred ingot]

it can't faze through walls

just small objects

[limpid summit]

Gameplay

[blissful harbor]

yes let me see you code on dashing through a wall, that’s gameplay

[limpid summit]

Imagine if you could just debug infinitely

What kind of a game would that be

[crimson patio]

In the end, it alllllll comes back to gameplay

[blissful harbor]

“small objects”
it phases through room wide shockwaves, swords, light beams, soul balls, i could keep going

[kindred ingot]

what am I even doing?

I should be doing something more fun than this

[crimson patio]

Nah HK devs should have made you able to phase through everything in the game once you get shade cloak

0/10 game literally unplayable

[blissful harbor]

like actually playing ss…wait

[limpid summit]

Ts all to prove the knight can canonically die to its own vital fluids

[kindred ingot]

that's not what I said and you know it damn well

[limpid summit]

While still having them in its body

[crimson patio]

It’s like humans don’t already have that LMAO

[kindred ingot]

no, ts all to show that I still don't have a good answer to the question "how did Void end up inside the Kingsoul?"

[crimson patio]

Stomach acid can kill you if it’s anywhere but the stomach

[kindred ingot]

I moved on from the Shade stuff a long time ago

cuz it lead to nowhere and I was tired from it

but this is the exact same

[limpid summit]

Sashimi Void was not actually inside the Kingsoul

[kindred ingot]

then where did the Void Heart come from?

[limpid summit]

Me saying it was a metaphor was describing how the Kingsoul cutscene represented the Vessels and TK

The Soul of Wyrm and Root gives way to TK’s own inner void

An emptiness hidden within now unconstrained

That’s TK’s void

[kindred ingot]

so the whole charm just doesn't exist and the White Lady gives us nothing

[limpid summit]

What

No?

[kindred ingot]

then it exists

[limpid summit]

There just isn’t literally void inside it

[kindred ingot]

then the Void Heart doesn't exist

[limpid summit]

You pick it up in pieces how would void just appear inside

[limpid summit]

The void heart is Kingsoul transformed

[kindred ingot]

THAT'S MY GOD DAMN QUESTION

[blissful harbor]

kingsoul is transformed during TK’s little revelation
think of it like the soul portal the shamans made, enough soul can give way to void, the entire thing was transformed

[limpid summit]

The cutscene of it appearing inside Kingsoul is to maintain the Vessel parallels

That’s not canonically how VH appears

[kindred ingot]

you all love that word

[limpid summit]

Yes it’s my favorite word

[kindred ingot]

then HOW does it appear?

does it just show up?

[limpid summit]

Yes

[kindred ingot]

that's stupid

[crimson patio]

The kingsoul charm transform itself into void heart in response to TK’s change

It made peace with its creation and now become one with its void nature

The kingsoul reflects that

As the knight changes, the charm changes with its bearer
That’s it

[limpid summit]

Kingsoul is transformed by TK’s own void

[edgy nebula]

topic?

[kindred ingot]

this whole conversation is stupid

[limpid summit]

Similar to a void spell

[kindred ingot]

can I talk to someone who takes me seriously?

[limpid summit]

“Your essence has melded with the spell. You must have found a powerful source..”

[blissful harbor]

i take you very seriously

[limpid summit]

Spell is Kingsoul source is the gravity of TK’s revelation

[limpid summit]

This

The Kingsoul is 5 notches representing the burden of PK and WL’s sacrifice

Once the true nature of the void is embraced then the charm is weightless

[kindred ingot]

so it just becomes void because the Knight remembered?

[limpid summit]

The burden is lifted

[crimson patio]

Like I already explained that things being “transformed by will” is a magical thing

“Will” isn’t physical
For will to have an effect on the physical world magic has to be involved

[limpid summit]

Well it dream nails itself

Gives extra weight to the memory

[crimson patio]

Short answer
The charm changes physically
Via magic
In response to TK’s change

[limpid summit]

You know it’s sort of like Everbloom

Actually

[kindred ingot]

okay, that is an explanation, thank you

[gentle aspen]

well
magic or aura

[kindred ingot]

I'm not exactly happy with it, but it's better than just "it canonically doesn't happen"

[limpid summit]

City boy city boooy

[edgy nebula]

topic?

[limpid summit]

Ooooh ooooh ooh

[spark valve]

you don't wanna know

[kindred ingot]

the question "how does Void appear inside the Kingsoul?", which led me to conclude no one here takes me seriously

except that one person

who gave me a real answer

[limpid summit]

We’re taking you seriously that’s why we’re engaging with you

[blissful harbor]

the same exact thing was said before unless i can’t read

just…in a different way

[edgy nebula]

well it clearly isnt in there from the start, because you get the two halves first

[kindred ingot]

I'm tired of this

[kindred ingot]

yeah that was the source of my confusion

[limpid summit]

“How does void appear in the Kingsoul it doesn’t make sense”
“Void doesn’t appear in the Kingsoul because that wouldn’t make sense”

That’s what we have been saying

[crimson patio]

I think it’s cool that the kingsoul-> voidheart transformation foreshadowed the DNM ending

Where the void/shade within TK breaks the pale shell and let itself out to finish the radiance….

Absolute cinema

[kindred ingot]

"a wizard did it" is a better explanation than "it didn't happen"

[limpid summit]

It didn’t happen

[kindred ingot]

similarly, "magic turned it into void" is a better explanation than "the transformation isn't canon"

[spark valve]

Nobody said there wasn’t a transformation.

[kindred ingot]

the person right above me just said it

unless I'm too mad and tired to read

[spark valve]

No they didn’t

[kindred ingot]

I'm too mad and tired to read

[blissful harbor]

happens to the best of us

[fresh badger]

When u get pk's white fragment there's void clinging to the inside

Duh

[kindred ingot]

ANYWAYS, back to Silksong

it's stupid that the magical threefold melody that encages the all-powerful goddess of Pharloom is composed of 6 notes total

[fresh badger]

3fold melody isnt what keeps her a mimir no?

Isnt it only the architect room

[edgy nebula]

you use it to ascend to her cocoon

[kindred ingot]

the Vaultkeeper with the cylinder says something along the lines of "we prayed a cage" (which is a fire line btw)

[spark valve]

They all do

[fresh badger]

Isnt that just general commentary though

[kindred ingot]

it's all of the Choir, but the Architect room was supposed to make it easier

[fresh badger]

Like the citadel itself chained her with their songs

[kindred ingot]

yeah that's exactly what happens

[fresh badger]

I thought the choir was replaced by the architect room

[kindred ingot]

and the song has 6 notes total

[kindred ingot]

the Architect part of the choir would be replaced by the Architect room

[fresh badger]

The architects arent part of the choir

[kindred ingot]

the other parts of the choir would still need to play

[kindred ingot]

...the Threefold Melody contains the Architects

unless I'm deeply confused about a really important part of the lore, the Architect's Melody, which is played by the Architects, is a part of the choir

[fresh badger]

Last edict of the Conductors.

"And lo, is eternity sustained. By Architect's claw, we welcome that final form, of dial and rotor, and soul gladly given.

The perfect, unfaltering voice."

[kindred ingot]

this was a lie

[fresh badger]

??? What do you think its saying

[kindred ingot]

it was a lie, the plot of the game shows that it was a lie, otherwise the Haunting wouldn't have happened

[ionic basalt]

Maybe its just that the architet room itself was thought to be able to sustain the song, and that 3fold is used to unlock the cradle lift

[fresh badger]

It wasnt a lie, its the last remnant of the citadel before the architect stuff failed and GMS started haunting imo

The architect room is directly beneath the cradle with a shit ton of cogwork choir things and bigass psalm cylinders

[marble oasis]

no the cogwork core replaces the whole choir

[kindred ingot]

when you say "we will sing eternally", then don't sing eternally, you are lying

[marble oasis]

hence why gms is still asleep despite everyone being haunted and not singing

[kindred ingot]

well, that's weird, cuz it only plays one part of the song

[kindred ingot]

they are kinda singing

they just stop to fight you when you appear

[limpid summit]

Lost their jobs to AI

I wonder what the choir did in between like Cogwork Core and Whiteward

[marble oasis]

the threefold melody is different from the song keeping gms asleep

[ionic basalt]

She isnt tho? Shes trying to awaken and the haunting is partially a side effect

[fresh badger]

Architect: We would hear the song of the Architects, at the core of our Citadel.
They who sustain our realm, its walls, its floors and its voice, even as others fall silent.

[blissful harbor]

crimes against humanity

buganity

bugity???

[marble oasis]

wasn’t whiteward before

[limpid summit]

Whiteward was probably after right

[marble oasis]

“trying” being the operative word

[limpid summit]

It makes sense that after the Conductors automated their duties they would try and screw around

[kindred ingot]

imagine being a Weaver and giving the role of ruling the Citadel to the Conductors, only to hear them saying "everyone stop singing, we'll build a giant music box to sing for us. And btw dying is a crime"

[limpid summit]

Then they woke GMS up

[kindred ingot]

okay, I'm just stupid, I thought it was the same song

[ionic basalt]

Maybe its an encryption key for the elevator? That was my thought

[fresh badger]

Doesnt whiteward have to predate cogwork core since the cogworkers are silkflies and whiteward makes silkflkes

[limpid summit]

Sentinels are silkfly powered though right

[fresh badger]

Yes

[kindred ingot]

it does, it's older than basically every bug we see except like, the Weavers

[limpid summit]

Those are pre Cogwork

[kindred ingot]

it corrupted the Citadel citizens for generations

[kindred ingot]

how does one "try" to wake up if they're sleeping?

[marble oasis]

she’s still sort of conscious

[kindred ingot]

then they're not sleeping

[fresh badger]

You know when your alarm goes off and you start flailing around half asleep to turn it off then pass back out

Thats not awake !!!!

[blissful harbor]

gms is not completely unconscious
i might be getting the timeline confused but i’m pretty sure she made Phantom while “sleep” (and lace too?)

[kindred ingot]

okay fair

[fresh badger]

Its not really specified the state gms is in when she made her replacement daughters tbh

[marble oasis]

yeah

[edgy nebula]

phantom’s ambiguous but lace yes

[marble oasis]

“one to wish our waking”

[blissful harbor]

it was after the weavers left, and they were doing their whole sleep shit pretty early right

[fresh badger]

Wtf is that line from

Our waking??

[edgy nebula]

silk heart prolly

[marble oasis]

lace silk heart

[edgy nebula]

gms refers to herself in the royal we

[fresh badger]

Oh gross

I hate silk hearts !!!

[marble oasis]

Do you like anything bro

[kindred ingot]

why?

[edgy nebula]

team cherry shouldve added other silk organs

silk livers wouldve been so tuff

[fresh badger]

u

[crimson patio]

GMS use royal “Our” quite frequently

She is a monarch, after all

[marble oasis]

Bro…

[blissful harbor]

it means shes an asshole

that’s what it means

[marble oasis]

When you beat Super Perfect Groal and all you get is a fucking silk lymph node

[crimson patio]

Ok this server forbids nsfw

Delete that

[gentle aspen]

😐

[blissful harbor]

the only bad silk heart is the bell beast one cause why tf does it have one

[kindred ingot]

oh

okay, the Silk left lung then

[gentle aspen]

I lowkey blame widow for it to make it make sense

[gentle aspen]

It reminds me of Bellhart’s strung upness

[blissful harbor]

widow strung it up, and like left her silk heart there???

[gentle aspen]

idk

[kindred ingot]

if her name is Widow, who's her dead partner?

[foggy fractal]

don't know

[crimson patio]

Clearly it’s the first GMS attempt at a daughter

[foggy fractal]

she could just be named widow for all we know

[marble oasis]

anatomy is nsfw

[kindred ingot]

yeah, it's just an organ like any other

[crimson patio]

If ur not gonna show it to your boss at work it’s nsfw

[blissful harbor]

after a black widow

[marble oasis]

Pale King again for some fucking reason:

[kindred ingot]

I wouldn't show my autism diagnosis to my boss, is it nsfw?

[crimson patio]

It’s a reference to black widows (the spider)

[marble oasis]

i would but my field is different

[blissful harbor]

you severely underestimate what i show my boss

[kindred ingot]

I know, it was an attempt at a joke

[crimson patio]

Y know who else is a widow

Herrah

[edgy nebula]

are there any cool topics to discuss

[blissful harbor]

was widows name actually widow
you got Herrah, Absolom, Eva, and Widow
she just doesn’t fit

[crimson patio]

Ya girl’s name is Widow

[blissful harbor]

yea like why fayforn is actually the secret fifth old heart

[azure folio]

I just got the mister mushroom endding and why did it say to be continued? Is it because of the dlc?

[blissful harbor]

me mushroom is gonna appear in other TC games

[kindred ingot]

I love Fayforn more than I love my left kidney, but they're NOT a Higher Being and they DON'T have the fifth old heart

[blissful harbor]

highly doubt he’s restricted to just Hk games too

[blissful harbor]

old hearts aren’t HBs in the first place no one said anything about them being one

[kindred ingot]

someone a long time ago said it

[crimson patio]

Idk about nyleth cuz I don’t care enough to read about her

[kindred ingot]

it started this whole bs

remember?

[crimson patio]

But the other 3 old hearts are def not higher beings

[blissful harbor]

about an old heart being a HB?

[edgy nebula]

Every heart is called mortal by the shamans

[kindred ingot]

about Fayforn being a HB

[crimson patio]

Pretty sure that was a joke

But I mean

Is fayforn not a higher being?

[kindred ingot]

no

[blissful harbor]

no

[crimson patio]

I thought I read about it somewhere

[edgy nebula]

no evidence for her being one

[kindred ingot]

they're a random bird

[blissful harbor]

sir what birds do you see

[edgy nebula]

what even is the purpose of the cogwork dancers

[blissful harbor]

that’s a wooly aphid if ever ive seen one

[kindred ingot]

they're a bird which just happens to be interesting enough for Weavers to like them

[edgy nebula]

they guard the cogwork core but like, why

[kindred ingot]

protect the Cogwork Core

[kindred ingot]

so that people don't invade it

[kindred ingot]

it looks a bit like a bird

[marble oasis]

Secret?

[edgy nebula]

well there are enemies called cogwork defenders

[kindred ingot]

and calling it a bug gives off no useful information

[marble oasis]

“fell heart of frost”

[blissful harbor]

wooly aphid

[kindred ingot]

the Cogwork Dancers are stronger

[edgy nebula]

this is referring to her personality though

[marble oasis]

what??

[crimson patio]

Fayforn isn’t a bird, tho

[kindred ingot]

oh ok, yeah, it's the exact same

I mean,

not exact same

but it looks a lot like a wooly aphid

[blissful harbor]

got the little tail and everything

[crimson patio]

It’s def a bug

With carapace and everything

[marble oasis]

same belly as pinstress

which could mean nothing

[blissful harbor]

god it’s so stupid looking

i can’t get over it

[crimson patio]

She’s beautiful

Don’t diss my goat

[kindred ingot]

my favorite beast in HK

she's beautiful

[blissful harbor]

she looks like she’d fall over in the slightest breeze

[kindred ingot]

she's gorgeous

[marble oasis]

She would glide beautifully in the slightest breeze

[blissful harbor]

as beautifully as a butterfly that just came out of its pupa fs

[crimson patio]

Just because her legs are small doesn’t mean she can’t balance

Stares at actual birds with tiny legs

[kindred ingot]

I know she's not a bird, but it'd be so funny if she was

[blissful harbor]

i hope we see more of her though
she is kinda just there, shes like Unn basically

[kindred ingot]

like, yeah, this random bird got in here, and Weavers love it for some reason

[blissful harbor]

gives you an item then dips forever

[crimson patio]

If she was an actual bird I fear there would be bug sacrifices to keep her happy

[kindred ingot]

she kinda stays there

[blissful harbor]

she leaves after you leave mount fay i’m pretty sure

i swear she was gone but i might be misremembering

[crimson patio]

Didnt she also destroy the tuner

So nobody can summon her again

[kindred ingot]

no, she stays there

Mister Mushroom even talks to her

[blissful harbor]

the more you know

i have yet to do the fun guy’s quest

[marble oasis]

she comes back for mr mushroom

[kindred ingot]

she stays there the whole game

[marble oasis]

no she doesn’t

[blissful harbor]

i swear to god i got faydown cloak and went back and she was gone

[marble oasis]

probably not intentionally she just crash landed into it

[edgy nebula]

in hindsight im not sure why i said that, but i don’t see how it proves she has an old heart

[marble oasis]

yeah it doesn’t prove

[blissful harbor]

cause like the railgun silk shot is over there, and i remember stopping by and she wasn’t there

[kindred ingot]

btw Fayforn can and did kill

Weavers died because of that bird-like creature

[marble oasis]

no proof on did

they just know that it absolutely could and would

[edgy nebula]

fayforn is lowkey just evil

[kindred ingot]

the Weavers wouldn't know if she didn't

[edgy nebula]

doesnt even care if we kill her kids

[kindred ingot]

neutral

she's a beast

[marble oasis]

She’s got plenty

[blissful harbor]

rude

[kindred ingot]

she has a lot of them

like the Pale King

[marble oasis]

Pale Being

[edgy nebula]

id be mad if someone killed one of my 5 million kids

[marble oasis]

you’re a soft touch brother

[blissful harbor]

would you even notice

[kindred ingot]

beast
she's not a Higher Being

[marble oasis]

proof

[edgy nebula]

probably not

but if i knew id be real mad

[kindred ingot]

a thing like that is something YOU have to prove

everything's a regular bug until proven otherwise

[blissful harbor]

fayforn has more in common with an old heart than a HB

[marble oasis]

The driftlins call her “mother gleaming brightly”

gleaming is a pale thing

[blissful harbor]

gleam???

gleamlight???

[marble oasis]

Mt Fay also glows white

And it’s cold

Like Pale Ore

holy autocorrect

[edgy nebula]

pale oregano

[marble oasis]

anyway

[edgy nebula]

yum

[marble oasis]

QED

[blissful harbor]

oregano

[marble oasis]

They have that in verdania probably

[blissful harbor]

wyrm flakes just got a new name

[sinful nimbus]

soyjak pointing

[edgy nebula]

simply grate some fur off of palestag and you have pale oregano

[kindred ingot]

me when I'm upgrading my Pizza Cutter and the Italiansmith asks for three pieces of pale oregano

[blissful harbor]

anywaysss

[edgy nebula]

used to make the esteemed and renowned verdania pizza

[marble oasis]

crazy how this is the only mention of gleamflies in the game and they ONLY did it so hornet wouldn’t have souls trapped forever in her bellhome

[blissful harbor]

are pale beings inherently higher beings?

[marble oasis]

drives me nuts

[kindred ingot]

are silkflies pale beings?

[blissful harbor]

like what about the stag

[marble oasis]

No, Lace isn’t

[edgy nebula]

prolly not

[kindred ingot]

I think so

[kindred ingot]

Lace is a pale being??

[marble oasis]

Yes

[edgy nebula]

yeah hornet calls her pale

[kindred ingot]

yeah

cuz she's white

[marble oasis]

Pale is its own thing

Pale is never just white

[kindred ingot]

in which context does Hornet call Lace pale?

[marble oasis]

like every interaction they have

“pale child” “pale one” “pale knight”

[kindred ingot]

then she's probably reffering to Lace's whiteness

cuz how would Hornet know?

[marble oasis]

Hornet of all people would know

[blissful harbor]

hornet

the daughter of a pale being

[marble oasis]

Plus pallor is something people in this world can just tell

[edgy nebula]

bell hermit calls the bellhomes in bellhart gleaming

[marble oasis]

Karm calls Hornet pale

[kindred ingot]

in any case, Fayforn is not a pale being

[blissful harbor]

hornet is weird

[edgy nebula]

infact there are alot of times bellhart is referred to with the word gleam

[blissful harbor]

shes lumped in with HBs in general, not just pale beings

[muted lantern]

doesnt hornet say something like "you've always had the scent" is that referring to lace being made of silk or being pale or both

[marble oasis]

Let me specify
All pale things gleam, not all gleaming things are Pale

[marble oasis]

silk

but silk is pale so

[blissful harbor]

what does silk smell like

[marble oasis]

not flesh

[kindred ingot]

are Weavers pale?

is Herrah pale?

[marble oasis]

no

[kindred ingot]

are the Little Weavers pale?

[muted lantern]

probably like soul

[kindred ingot]

then silk is not pale

[marble oasis]

But silk is pale because it’s woven with soul

[blissful harbor]

ok what does soul smell like

[edgy nebula]

soup

[marble oasis]

Go read the doc buddy

[muted lantern]

silk

[kindred ingot]

is the Soul Master pale?

[marble oasis]

I am going to kill you buddy

[blissful harbor]

i’m gonna defenestrate you

[kindred ingot]

are the Snail Shamans pale?

[marble oasis]

And then I’m going to put your heart on my wall

[marble oasis]

is he made of soul

[rough ingot]

Excessive?

[marble oasis]

holy false equivalence

[rough ingot]

Bro ain’t a great heart

Bros just the average kid on a lore server

[kindred ingot]

are the Mistakes and Follies pale?

[blissful harbor]

they aren’t made of soul

[kindred ingot]

they kinda are

[blissful harbor]

their bodies were melted and bloated with soul

[rough ingot]

They are deformed soul

[blissful harbor]

not the same thing

[rough ingot]

Very similar

The knight is mostly void since its contained in the shell, but we call it void

[kindred ingot]

what IS paleness?

[rough ingot]

So it’s not unreasonable to consider mistakes and follies “soul beings”

[rough ingot]

I have no fricking idea

[marble oasis]

Go read the doc buddy

[kindred ingot]

we know it's something both the Pale King and the White Lady have

[rough ingot]

And GMS

[kindred ingot]

and it would pass down to the Vessels

but that's kinda it

[blissful harbor]

the journal tells us they are inflated and melted bugs
they aren’t made of the shit

[rough ingot]

I dont think it’s inherited?

[kindred ingot]

do we know about her being Pale?

[marble oasis]

Go read the doc buddy

There’s so much more

[rough ingot]

She should be

[kindred ingot]

cuz if so, then Lace and Phantom are Pale

[marble oasis]

Yes

[kindred ingot]

JUST EXPLAIN IN WORDS

[marble oasis]

They are

[kindred ingot]

WRITE

[rough ingot]

Le bruh

[kindred ingot]

THIS IS A TEXT-BASED CONVERSATION

[rough ingot]

They’re pale descendants

[kindred ingot]

SAY YOUR THOUGHTS

[rough ingot]

So is knight

[kindred ingot]

is paleness genetic?

[marble oasis]

I already did https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Qdsj735NMQZYjo1em5IbYaVEnDl1LiI0Okeo-BfeIgo/edit?usp=drivesdk

Yes

[rough ingot]

That exists

[blissful harbor]

yes

[rough ingot]

I mean higher being ness isn’t genetic for sure

The vessels i think are immortal since the void kinda messed a lota stuff up

[marble oasis]

HBness sort of is

[rough ingot]

Hornet has a sorta long life

[blissful harbor]

is it

[marble oasis]

Hornet isn’t a HB but she is immortal

[rough ingot]

Knight is NOT a higher being despite being the child of 2

[blissful harbor]

does being immortal make you a HB

[marble oasis]

So like the power is inherited but not HB status itself

[rough ingot]

Lord of shades could be argued

[marble oasis]

No it couldn’t

[blissful harbor]

imo, if the original child was allowed to be born without void

[marble oasis]

It very much is

[rough ingot]

VGFocus probably is

[blissful harbor]

it would be a HB

[blissful harbor]

both of them are

[marble oasis]

definitely is

[crimson patio]

Void given focus is the god of gods
If not higher being what is it?

[blissful harbor]

higher higher being

[rough ingot]

Higher Being slayer

Godseeker isn’t known for being the most reliable with the title god

I’m not slandering Bill here but uhh

Might as well just assume its a higher being

[crimson patio]

If it was any other media being a child of 2 higher beings would probably make you a higher being

But this is hollow knight
This world has its own laws

[rough ingot]

I mean

[marble oasis]

more powerful than pk even in the shell