sk-lore

[edgy nebula]

oh im stupid im misremembering that gif

[timber abyss]

just cuz its says couple doesnt mean romantic couple

[edgy nebula]

nevermind

[timber abyss]

lmso

lmao

i searched it up and it said whether theyre gay or not is up for interpretation

[grave stream]

Happy couple

Male and male

Hmmmmm......

"found a new purpose in life'

[crimson patio]

They are actually romantic but I understand if ur not ready to hear it

[grave stream]

The Benji and someone in sinners road live

Sinners road in general

[tawdry flare]

what are we yapping about #38

[lyric rose]

Happy couple of shoes

[grave stream]

Any gay characters that actually live

Nailsmith and she live

[lyric rose]

living makes nailsmith gay

[grave stream]

But is there any others

Yeah

But if you assume you kill him

[lyric rose]

idk hornet might do gay things sometimes

[timber abyss]

yeah his purpose is making art with his friend

instead of being a nailsmith

[timber abyss]

this aint even canon

[lyric rose]

If he dies he ain’t joining art class

[tawdry flare]

nailsmith being gay is canon

[timber abyss]

happy couple of homeboys making art and chilling

[lyric rose]

green prince doesn’t die if you don’t kill him I guess

[timber abyss]

why am i on this i dont even have silksong

[crimson patio]

But they don’t both live so is it really considered an alive couple

[edgy nebula]

well no gay couple lives forever

unless youre an immortal gay couple

then you live forever

[timber abyss]

i almost cried of joy when i saw the nailsmith making art with him bro not cuz i thought they were gay cuz i thought it was sweet that the nailsmith found a friend

[lyric rose]

Solution: shawkra

https://tenor.com/view/shakra-hornet-hollow-knight-silksong-poshanka-gif-13569590462274981095

[crimson patio]

Sorry to break it to you but Shakra is mortal

[lyric rose]

That’s not what I was solving

also she freaking speedrunning thru Bilewater idk how mortal she be

[edgy nebula]

hiding in here for a little because hornet racism has brought up and everyone is saying it’s okay for some reason

[limpid summit]

💔

[lyric rose]

hi

it’s me, ding in here

[unborn nova]

anyone?

[lyric rose]

lore wise I am a half but we need to make compromises sometimes

[edgy nebula]

i dont think there are really any mentions of it other than forgedaughter

since places like mosshome exist we can assume it’s something like thst

[lyric rose]

My guess is it’s a section of the docks in the z axis

[edgy nebula]

a semi-big area which houses forgedaughters

[limpid summit]

Unfortunately genuinely nothing

Signis and gron suggest there’s some sort of hierarchy even among the bell workers

[lyric rose]

Probably just some other part of the docks complex

In the same way Greymoor has other windmills.

[edgy nebula]

forge daughter says she was sent from her forgehome at the request of the holy bugs above

so it’s possible it was in deep docks but maybe somewhere else

[lyric rose]

Maybe the upper half

Since that part isn’t as extreme on the lava

[limpid summit]

I got an interesting question

Thou return to cross thine nail with this pure vessel. For what purpose, We can only wonder.
Does combat draw thee closer together? Dost thou also desire attunement with the Gods? Or dost thou hide some other desire deep within thee?

Godseeker says this when we refight PV in P4

[lyric rose]

Hidden desire… best boss

[limpid summit]

From a meta standpoint does this mean there actually is some lore reason TK is there

Or is Godseeker just saying shit

Like is there something going through TK’s mind at this time or is it just like redoing any other pantheon

[fresh badger]

She says similar stuff for refighting any pantheon

[limpid summit]

Yeah but its different for PV right

For the other ones she’s like “are you just testing yourself”

[graceful grail]

Guys, the osts in order run is possible!!!

This is how far I am

• [x] Enter Pharloom
• [x] Moss Grotto
• [x] Strive
• [x] Bone Bottom
• [x] The Marrow
• [x] Bell Beast
• [x] Repose
• [x] Deep Docks
• [x] Lace
• [x] Far Fields
• [x] Fourth Chorus
• [x] Greymoor
• [x] Incisive Battle
• [x] Bellhart
• [x] Widow

Still have this to go!!

• [ ] Shellwood - [ ] Sister Splinter - [ ] Hunter’s Trail - [ ] Sinner’s Road - [ ] Cut Through - [ ] Bilewater - [ ] The Mist - [ ] Phantom - [ ] The Slab - [ ] Red Maiden - [ ] Mount Fay - [ ] Blasted Steps - [ ] Last Judge - [ ] Underworks - [ ] Choral Chambers - [ ] Songclave - [ ] Cogwork Dancers - [ ] Cogwork Core - [ ] Whispering Vaults - [ ] Trobbio - [ ] High Halls - [ ] The Choir - [ ] Awakening - [ ] Dark Descent - [ ] Reprieve - [ ] Nyleth - [ ] Skarrsinger Karmelita - [ ] Sands of Karak - [ ] Crust King Khann - [ ] Lost Verdania - [ ] Clover Dancers - [ ] Fleatopia - [ ] Tormented Trobbio - [ ] Red Memory - [ ] Last Dive - [ ] Lost Lace - [ ] Sister of the Void - [ ] Silksong

[limpid summit]

You got this

[foggy fractal]

you DON'T got this

we YES WE are all praying on your DOWNFALL

MWAHAHA

[tawdry flare]

How on earth did you get to Widow before Shellwood

[eternal hamlet]

theres a skip you can do so far as i know

Also, yet again i am asking this
I keep finding that when i listen back to phantom's theme, i keep hearing small musical similarities with bilewater

I wish i could ask chris lark directly but ummm im just some rando, so i cannot do as such
but is this intentional?

[foggy fractal]

I wouldn't be suprised

she is near Bilewater

[eternal hamlet]

https://youtu.be/_hM_Hp37By0?si=5MJC2tlj89gd1fB8

https://youtu.be/nsOkMtELuag?si=ycx8xn-CSMAL2QB5
A similarity in the ryhthm and melody progression

[marble oasis]

I doubt TK canonically refights pantheons

that might just be tc saying wow still going huh

[limpid summit]

“Get off the game”

[real folio]

Personally, I think ||second sentinel|| is a ||pinstress|| turned machine, the way ||cogwork dancers|| where originally a ||green prince||

[muted lantern]

Godseeker modes unique dialogue implies they do

[dire lynx]

The sentinels were made to replace the pinstresses

[marble oasis]

That’s post flower ending when SL is trapped in godhome with fuck all else to do

(Fact)

[muted lantern]

Post flower or etv, you unlock it after either no?

[marble oasis]

yeah but no flower godseeker dies so there is no godhome

[brazen cedar]

idk, but before the fihgt u can see her pin sticking out of its neck btw

she fough it

mb

fourth chorus

not sentinel lol

[muted lantern]

Godseekers body seems to be destroyed either way. I imagine the godhome in godseeker mode is just it's imprint upon the void.

[marble oasis]

Not directly roboticised, Pinstress says they taught the Citadel their techniques only to have them turned against them

[marble oasis]

Flower doesn’t destroy void, just repels it so I would say flower ending Godseeker is “sealed” somewhere

[muted lantern]

It's possible, they share a height and some moves, but it's also possible it was just using knowledge taught from pinstresses. It also seems to have technique from lace and other citadel warriors, including some shaman crest moves.

[brazen cedar]

yeah, second sentinel and pinstress have the same move, its shown that the citadel copied her

[marble oasis]

SS is taller no?

[muted lantern]

Yeah but if godseeker is sealed wherever ghost is sent presumably (probably back to the void, since it's just repelling it. they are probably still consumed, just in a different location. I imagine that wouldn't stop them, since the godseeker in the dream realm acts very different from the real world version iirc. Representing the whole hive mind irl I assume the godseekers body is destroyed and ghost just inherits the hive mind with godhome.

[muted lantern]

Maybe? But only because they have a huge forehead, I think eye level they are the same.

But id have to check

[dire lynx]

Sizes

[muted lantern]

Oh shit pinstress is bigger

[stray fog]

Is it not stated somewhere that there were only 3 pinstresses total?
(I might be misremembering)

[muted lantern]

Thx for the image unn

[real folio]

Note, ||pinstress|| and ||second sentinel|| have the exact same ||nail art|| attack

[muted lantern]

You don't have to spoiler here

[real folio]

There was a council of them brought into the kingdom

Then they where outcast

And i think hunted down

[muted lantern]

It's fully possible, it's just equally possible they were just taught pinstress arts since pinstress says they taught the citadel before being betrayed.

[marble oasis]

damn pinstress has like the opposite problem from khann

[muted lantern]

Also I think pinstresses taught the craws. Craws have similar balloon tech and use the same three pin throw and similar grounded dashes.

Plus we know pinstresses know airborne combat well

[marble oasis]

khann looks small as fuck on his own because of his proportions but large when you fight him

[stray fog]

Bilewater enemies also do that pin throw

[muted lantern]

Which one?

Which enemy I mean

[stray fog]

Idk the name

[muted lantern]

What do they look like?

I don't remember anything like that outside the bola guys

[dire lynx]

They shoot blowdarts

[stray fog]

Hold on near the seamstress's baloon, there are balls that you bounce on
Craw lake has the same balls

[real folio]

GOOD CATCH

[muted lantern]

Oh the stillkin? Their attack is very different, it's just a double shot one after the other, not 3 in a spread.

[stray fog]

Oh

[muted lantern]

That's what I mean by similar balloon tech. Starpengu pointed this out originally I think

[real folio]

Oh ok

First msg I saw

[dire lynx]

Craw may have taken over a pinstress' home once they were hunted down by the citadel

[stray fog]

Craw lake doesn't have that hot air Baloon like structure

[muted lantern]

The tall craws have a similar dash attack, and the squat craws use the same pin spread move, I think the pinstresses used to teach them before fleeing and leaving the lair to them.

[real folio]

But they have the same balloon types

[brazen cedar]

u might be overthinking it, a lot of enemies have a dash attack

[muted lantern]

If only we got a craw with a needle strike to confirm.

[stray fog]

Yes I support the theory that a pinstress taught them

[muted lantern]

The stance looks similar to pinstress is what I mean

[brazen cedar]

primal aspids werent trained by pinstress i hope or else i would hate her even more 😭

[real folio]

I think there are clear relations enough to connect them firmly

[dire lynx]

Imagine if the craw and stillkin had teamed up through the pinstresses

[muted lantern]

Pinstresses probably trained anyone opposed to the citadel

Since the citadel hunted them

[stray fog]

W pinstress

[muted lantern]

How can you hate pinstress? She's so adorable

[brazen cedar]

nah lowk her boss fight is trash

[muted lantern]

She was brutal to nohit

[edgy nebula]

do we think the craws balloons were inspired by pinstresses

[remote knoll]

i love pinnlady

[stray fog]

They look like they're made from craw feathers

[muted lantern]

It's the same balloons, I think pinstresses used to train the craws and left behind those balloons when they abandoned what became craw lake.

[real folio]

Good theory

[edgy nebula]

makes sense, since some craws use pins

[real folio]

The pinstresses are really floaty, so practicing over a lake just makes sense

[stray fog]

I think a pinstress (who also had seamstress-ing skills) made the baloons

Because they look like they're made with a bunch of pieces of cloth

[muted lantern]

They also use the same flying throw three spreading pins move. Makes me wonder if threefold pin is a pinstress weapon since it looks different to craws threefold.

I think Star was the first person to point out the balloon connection

At least the first I've seen it

Tho she argued the pinstresses were craws which I don't agree with.

[dire lynx]

Pinstress stillkin >>>

[edgy nebula]

i mean, i could kinda see it but theyre wingless and they have eyes

[muted lantern]

They don't look like stillkin either imo. Their probiscus is too short, and it's super long on the stillkin.

[stray fog]

Didn't the stillkin kill a pinstress?

Whyd they do that if they were allies

[muted lantern]

It only looks short in the longest frame of the stilkins spitting animation, but it goes to like the size of their head when they spit.

[muted lantern]

Groal has a tendency to kill his allies.

Considering snail shaman

Plus stilkin got haunted

And haunted hunt non haunted as shown by mottled skarr

[edgy nebula]

we dont really know if it was a stilkin

it could be anyone, she mightve even died from old age

[dire lynx]

I mean, groal is a stillkin and he doesnt have a proboscis at all

[edgy nebula]

groal is weird, he’s bloated by bile

[muted lantern]

Ye but he also looks nothing like the pinstresses.

Pinstresses biggest connection with stilkin is the bilewater one wearing the same gear. But their snouts seem very different

[dire lynx]

Im just pointing out that there is variation in the species/tribe

[muted lantern]

Ye but groals kind of a unique case, being bloated by soul

[marble oasis]

They do but mottled skarr was just ant racism

[real folio]

WAIT RANDOM FANTHEORY WHAT IF THE BILEWATER TRIBE IS A DESCENDING BRANCH OF THE LOST VERDANIA CIVILISATION

[muted lantern]

They don't really look similar, and idk how close those regions are

[edgy nebula]

the stilkin were around during the time of verdania, they couldnt be

[marble oasis]

They look nothing alike?

[edgy nebula]

also they bare no resemblance to verdanians

[dire lynx]

The ducts pinstress also has a longer nose

[muted lantern]

That's the only frame on stilkins sprite where their probiscus is short, because they are sucking it in to spit.

[marble oasis]

I doubt ductstress is a stilkin but at the same time I doubt all pinstresses were one species

[muted lantern]

Honestly now that you point it out.
This frame looks a lot more similar to the ducts pinstress

[marble oasis]

If you look closely ductstress has a striped carapace body like her sisters

The stilkins’ bodies are fully black

[muted lantern]

I can't deny the snouts and eyes on duct pinstress are similar to regular stilkin.

I didn't notice her nose was longer

[marble oasis]

What eyes bro

[muted lantern]

Meant the other pinstresses eyes.

[limpid summit]

People were really saying Pinstress says “CACAW” clearly in her song

[muted lantern]

Presumably hers are the same when she's not, y'know, dead

[limpid summit]

Old penitent conductors melody all over again

[marble oasis]

To presume makes a pres out of u and me

[muted lantern]

I don't think we can both be president.

[marble oasis]

cannot believe anyone ever thought that

[dire lynx]

I wonder how the wreath repels maggots

[muted lantern]

Poison, most likely, or maybe silk? Silk is tied to purity and binding can repel maggots.

[limpid summit]

I have a feeling most people were like me and just trusted that the song sound the same without actually listening to it

[marble oasis]

i guess it’s made of some plant they don’t like the taste/smell of

[marble oasis]

All it says is that its woven of reed and leaf

No Silk

If it was silk they would eat it up even harder

[dire lynx]

Fragile band woven of reed and leaf, crafted to repel Muckmaggots.

[dire lynx]

Whats this?

[muted lantern]

Wait I think I got it. What if it's made of the plant the moth leaf lagnia mimics? (Presumably mothleaf) "A rare, calmer bug of Bilewater, survives its hazardous surroundings by hiding as a plant."

[marble oasis]

people thought old penitent sang the conductors melody

[edgy nebula]

she literally does

[muted lantern]

If it hides as a plant to repel the hazardous environment, maybe that plant protects from the maggots, so looking like it is protection?

[marble oasis]

My stupid ass actually thought this was a plant lmao

[marble oasis]

I’m stupider than a bird

[muted lantern]

C'mon this is a pretty good theory right?

Also the wreath has a similar color on its leaves

[edgy nebula]

it's so clear 😭 this is the greatest of all time

[marble oasis]

This is the best picture I could find so sorry but the plants these bugs mimic are clearly visible through BW

You get the idea

[limpid summit]

Yeah but it’s not like how a bird would say it

It’s like how someone would sing a word

She’s not cawing

[edgy nebula]

well cause she is singing

[limpid summit]

Crowing?

That’s what a rooster does no

Cawing yeah

[muted lantern]

Ye exactly, so what I'm saying is if lagnia mimics that plant to protect itself from hazardous environments, maybe that plant has some protection from the maggots, and is this used in the wreath?

[dire lynx]

It sounds more like kah-tah to me than ca-caw

[limpid summit]

It’s like how if there was a cow character and it said moo instead of mooing

She might be a craw I dunno

[marble oasis]

Yeah I guess so

[muted lantern]

Also her nose is a little too wiggly to be a beak lol

[marble oasis]

I don’t see how hiding as a plant would protect you from maggots though if you don’t actually have the properties of that plant

It would hide you from stilkin predators much better

Although they’re also not really hiding they fucking fly out in the open

So maybe it is the maggots

[muted lantern]

It could mimic the plants scent too, if it seems like the plant to blind maggots I'd count that as hiding

It's more likely the plant harms maggots and the sight/smell of it discourages them from biting

This the wreath and disguise

[marble oasis]

Well then it’s not really mimicking is it if it actually has the same chemical properties

[limpid summit]

I mean

[dire lynx]

Would you rather eat lugolis pickled muckmaggot or benjin and krulls roach guts

[edgy nebula]

i wouldnt be surprised if craw wear beak coverings

[muted lantern]

In her animations the nose wiggles like it's a floppy probiscus not a beak.

[edgy nebula]

we know they do, just that only metal ones are explicitly stated

[dire lynx]

In seamstress fight her snout wiggles all over the place

[limpid summit]

Why is Groal just not a Stilkin

[dire lynx]

Hes just special, dont worry abt it (his egg was swapped at birth, dont tell him i told u tho)

[muted lantern]

It's kinda funny that he looks like a frog, do frogs predate on mosquitos? It might be narrative shorthand to show he doesn't have his people's best intentions at heart.

[dire lynx]

Or team cherry just wanted a frog in their swamp

[limpid summit]

That’s a fun way to look at it

I like how Groal and SM both take up that like

Technically required for completion but you don’t really think about it niche

[muted lantern]

Yeah but my explanations more fun

[dire lynx]

And groal did want whats best for the stillkin. Not his fault he was pupeteered by gms

[muted lantern]

I mean the only feat we really know of his is eating a guy trying to help his people

[limpid summit]

The stilkin living in bilewater is cool too

Cause mosquitos lay their eggs in water

Probably would suck to be born in swamp water

[dire lynx]

I wouldnt trust outsiders if i were groal, especially not ones as shady as snail shamans

[edgy nebula]

he strings up innocent peoples corpses in his swamp and takes their skin and steals their souls

[limpid summit]

“Go away” or kill and eat him

[muted lantern]

God forbid a they/them do anything

[dire lynx]

Hornet pmo with the lack of descriptive pronouns in the journal. Like girl just tell us their gender plz, its ok to say

[marble oasis]

“Innocent”

[real folio]

Do you guys think styx or stynx is a nosk?

[dire lynx]

NOOOOOO

[limpid summit]

Styx is not Skynx is

[real folio]

No?

Ok yeah

[limpid summit]

IMO

[real folio]

Thats what i thought

[dire lynx]

No

[limpid summit]

Obv unconfirmed but metawise and lorewise there are clear Nosk parallels in Skynx

[real folio]

Yeah def

[dire lynx]

There are also clear and very obvious differences that rule out nosk

[real folio]

I think styx is a male version of the hunter in PD but it makes sense for stynx

[limpid summit]

There are but some of those can be attributed to Nosk being infected

[real folio]

Like what

[limpid summit]

Like it not talking to us

Or it immediately attacking on sight

[dire lynx]

The biggest being a lack of both mind reading and shape shifting

[real folio]

He is also immitating his prey

By wearing yhe mask

[limpid summit]

Okay so to be fair

I’ve thought about this a while

[muted lantern]

I mean groal and lugoli could just be genderless. Other than phantom and some creatures that are animals. the characters that hornet they/thems (in her sections of the hj not the top part) aren't gendered otherwise iirc.

[limpid summit]

And it depends on a bit of circular logic because it assumes Skynx can in fact do these things

But it still makes sense

If Skynx read Hornet’s mind it would likely have gleaned she was familiar with predators like Nosk in Deepnest

[real folio]

Good point

[limpid summit]

So turning into a loved one of hers or even shapeshifting conventionally would have set her off

[edgy nebula]

the problem is skynx directly takes styx's head

[real folio]

And it would be less hostile like we see it, knowing she is a predator, not prey

[limpid summit]

If Hornet saw Herrah’s head sticking out she’d just kill it

[edgy nebula]

like, his whole head

[real folio]

Its best bet would be to play firends and not hurt her

And it knows that

[muted lantern]

My theory is that skynx is what an uninfected nosk looks like, nosk could use people's memories because the infection connected it to the dream realm.

[limpid summit]

I think that’s like plausible deniability though

[dire lynx]

You cant work from the answer backwards. There is a way to fit basically anything if you do so

[real folio]

Same phantom

[limpid summit]

What would happen if you saw Styx’s intact corpse

And then a second version of his head right next to it

Again it’s unconfirmed but to see an upside down mask mimic and say it’s not Nosk because it doesn’t do this and that is a bit reductive

[limpid summit]

Exactly

[real folio]

I think he is trying to imitate styx but messing up

Also it looks cool so devs put it that way

[limpid summit]

Nosk is an ambush predator and benefits from having a large familiar lair when it shapeshifts to attack us

Hornet isn’t going to wait for Skynx to shapeshift in front of her

[muted lantern]

I think my theory is neat, anyway, unsupported by text, but I like it.

[edgy nebula]

personally i feel like it's something similar to nosk but not a nosk

[limpid summit]

But like

Fair

But like why

[dire lynx]

The two most notable skills of nosk are absent from skynx, its not like its a few minor details

[limpid summit]

At that point why can’t it just be a Nosk in a very different situation which calls for different tactics

[edgy nebula]

there are alot of nosk details missing

[limpid summit]

Shapeshifting and mind reading?

Things that Hornet would be familiar with?

[real folio]

What do you think the new DLC will be? Like coral stuff w/ steel assasin? Or the farloom bay and lifeblood?

[edgy nebula]

if hornet would be familiar with it why interact with her at all

[muted lantern]

I like the idea of nosk being able to use memories on account of it being infected and connected to dreams, while skynx is what an uninfected nosk is like, less magical ability.

[limpid summit]

It’s doing her a service

[dire lynx]

Nosk still is a shapeshifter (skynx isnt)

[limpid summit]

She gets organs for Huntress she’s not against bugs eating to survive

[muted lantern]

Well we don't know what skynx looked like before Mimicing styx

[real folio]

Nosk was a predator used to manipulating ppl, so the infection added to that instinct, maybe he couldnt really read minds before snd just predicted ppl

[limpid summit]

Skynx does not shapeshift because shapeshifting would be seen by Hornet as an aggressive tactic

[real folio]

Just wears the shell

[limpid summit]

If TC made Skynx mimic anyone but Styx then people would ask why don’t we just kill this thing that wants to kill us

[dire lynx]

It ripped his head off and wore it, no shapeshifting involved

[limpid summit]

By mimicking Styx, Skynx is trying to fit in and not attract attention

[muted lantern]

Ig

[edgy nebula]

nosks are adept hunters, why wouldnt it just eat styx's corpse the room over and moreover why does it spit out rosaries

[muted lantern]

Hey guys I got a bad theory

What if the reasons pinstresses are so similar to both craws and stilkin but not exactly the same is because their family is half craw half stilkin.

It's bad I know

[dire lynx]

He didnt mimic anything

[limpid summit]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/986377489662234654/1453602747239628922/Skynx_-_atlas0_93340.png?ex=6963248d&is=6961d30d&hm=53bcb90bce6f3a52b4ddc6b04fc5acf93dd7d1b3ee7d599057612951611a09f9&

Those ain’t the same limbs

Bonier separations

Not exactly like Nosk so that’s not evidence

I’m just saying that Skynx is in fact shapeshifting

In some regard

[dire lynx]

Hes not

Unless what styx does is also shapeshifting in ur opinion

[limpid summit]

The Deepnest Nosk is an adept hunter because it has a large lair in which to lure prey to and shapeshift into a giant beast to kill it

Skynx is holed up in a tiny corner

[muted lantern]

It's also possible the two creatures share a common ancestor, maybe one that followed the weavers to hallownest and evolved to fit into that environment

[limpid summit]

I saw your theory body weight

Idk about it because infection doesn’t usually connect people to dreams in that sense

However

Crackpot

Soul may!

And Nosk lives right next to a pale ore

What if it’s pale touched

[dire lynx]

Holy cope

[limpid summit]

I don’t actually believe this

[muted lantern]

The upside down head is the only reason I feel there must be some connection

It feels too specific

[limpid summit]

An upside down mimic is clearly meant to evoke Nosk, and it’s not even a WL Greyroot situation where the visual similarities fall short in the face of Greyroot visibly doing different stuff

[dire lynx]

They have literally nothing else in common

[limpid summit]

It’s the absence of traits from Skynx, an NPC that really only exists as a Steel Soul merchant and

It really doesn’t make sense for it to use that stuff as it stands

[edgy nebula]

it's the fact skynx physically takes styx's head for me

[limpid summit]

Who would it shapeshift into

[edgy nebula]

i dont think skynx is meant to be explained ngl

[dire lynx]

IT DOESNT SHAPESHIFT

SKYNX JUST TAKES STYX'S HEAD

[limpid summit]

I’m saying that if the argument is it isn’t a Nosk because it doesn’t mind read and shapeshift

Why would it do that

[muted lantern]

You can admit though it's a very specific parralel, the intent of it just might not be "they are the same species" maybe it's just a stylistic choice for tc to signify a creature Mimicing another?

[limpid summit]

Grub mimics don’t turn into upside down grubs

[marble oasis]

Yeah maybe it could tell Hornet is smart enough to tell and kill it

So it poses as a normal bug

[limpid summit]

Yes exactly

That’s what I said

[dire lynx]

Yo guys, new theory. What if the pinstresses are actually nosk pretending to be stillkin

[limpid summit]

In Steel Soul Hornet has never seen Styx

[tight current]

I love silksong

[marble oasis]

I only just got here

[limpid summit]

So it’s a little weird for a bug to be doing that but not you’re wearing a man’s face

[marble oasis]

Are we saying Skynx only is a nosk or styx and skynx

[limpid summit]

I’m sorry zor please accept my gift

🎁

[dire lynx]

Neither

[limpid summit]

WE are ALL saying the former

[marble oasis]

What’s the debate though

[limpid summit]

Whether Skynx is a Nosk or not

Styx isn’t what kind of bum ass Nosk needs masks

[dire lynx]

Skynx does nothing nosks actually do

[limpid summit]

And is a slave

[edgy nebula]

i think it's meant to invoke nosk but isnt nosk, it probably isnt meant to be explained

[marble oasis]

Stynx 💔

[limpid summit]

👃

[marble oasis]

Greatest slander title oat?

[edgy nebula]

peeeeee yyyyeeeeeeeeeeeew!!!!!!!

[limpid summit]

Skynx having no Needolin dialogue also paints it as alien like Greyroot

And is pretty analogous to Nosk having no DND

[dire lynx]

Styx huntress has better connection than TS

[limpid summit]

What

[marble oasis]

yeah

[limpid summit]

They’re visibly not the same bug

[edgy nebula]

what if styx's mask is from huntresses husband

[marble oasis]

Styx at least has the head of huntress species

[limpid summit]

Could be

[muted lantern]

I mean I think it's definitely meant to draw a parralell.

[dire lynx]

He has two of that exact one

[edgy nebula]

polycule

[marble oasis]

One of them fathered all of them and the other one fathered runt

[muted lantern]

I think he is huntresses mate and wore it to seem like hes the same species. He is obsessed with the idea of having a mistress. He probably ran because huntress was gonna sacrifice him to the babies instead of her.

[marble oasis]

He only acts like a slave because he can tell that’s what Hornet desires deep down

[muted lantern]

Lol

[limpid summit]

Styx has a tiny little head

[marble oasis]

Don’t zote me that’s canon

He explicitly says it

[dire lynx]

Thats the end of his neck

[limpid summit]

No it widens

Styx is NOT the father

[marble oasis]

He doesn’t even look all that runty

How big were the others

[limpid summit]

Also like

Their heads don’t even look all that similar

We got on THK ML for less

[marble oasis]

i suppose

Does his other head look more like it

[marble oasis]

The nostrils are the most damning thing lol

Who else has nostrils

wait

noskrils…

[limpid summit]

Billy

Gilly

[edgy nebula]

gilly's dad is styx and he accidentally put on the mask that made him want to go get the milk

[dire lynx]

Yo proof they are all the same guy, nosk came to pharloom for a holdiday and fake killed himself like trobbio as a prank for hornet (steel soul exclusive)

[marble oasis]

proof

provides only conjecture

[limpid summit]

But real talk

[dire lynx]

The one who breeds.. the one who hunts... the one who needs milk...

[limpid summit]

Mimicry in general and the upside down mask are certainly parallels
It’s unfair to discount the fact that it may be a Nosk based on the fact that it doesn’t do these Nosklike things (that would give it away in a vulnerable position)

It’s trading for handouts while it carves out territory for itself, it’s not going to risk shapeshifting and setting off an alert hunter like Hornet

[dire lynx]

Its unfair to argue they are the same thing when they have only one similarity and are from seperate kingdoms who share none of the same fauna (excluding the crawlers and weavers)

[marble oasis]

I guess face stealing is simply an ecological niche in the hk world

Just like you have crawlers of all varieties

[limpid summit]

You got Aknids which are relatives

It’s not like a shapeshifting monster couldn’t have moved house anyway

Just turn into a single celled organism cause apparently those aren’t even that small

It mimics a deceased bug and is untouchable by the universal translator

[dire lynx]

A chimpanzee and I are also relatives

[limpid summit]

I think you’d be better off with like a neanderthal analogy

[dire lynx]

So is a sea urchin

[muted lantern]

Hey guys quiz question what's the nectar in the halfway house made kd

[marble oasis]

A chimp and you maybe

Not me

[limpid summit]

Hunter talks about Nosks as beasts from the darkness anyway not from Deepnest

And he’s been around

[edgy nebula]

from an aphid's teat

[limpid summit]

What bobbitt said

[edgy nebula]

well, it isnt made from an aphid's teat, but it is implied to be milked from an aphid's teat

[muted lantern]

It's still wild, I always assumed it was like nectar from a flower. But then I read the materium

[dire lynx]

Dark, like deepnest is?

[limpid summit]

Everywhere is dark

[dire lynx]

Surely we aint hearing void nosk again

[marble oasis]

Who said anything about teats

[muted lantern]

Who the fuck milked an aphid

Aren't those supposed to be tiny

[dire lynx]

Ants probably

[limpid summit]

Skynx is also in complete darkness before we beseech it

[muted lantern]

Also since when can bugs be milked?

Actually, let's not talk about that

[limpid summit]

It’s the only npc besides someone like Yarnaby that we have to specifically beckon out from the darkness

Gruzzers are cows

[dire lynx]

Ants already collect honeydew from aphids irl

[marble oasis]

I swear there’s another

[muted lantern]

I wonder what food the greymoor used to grow

Do you think they had potatoes

[limpid summit]

Old penitent comes when we play

[dire lynx]

Caretaker kinda

[marble oasis]

No

[limpid summit]

We don’t yell for him

He just pops out unannounced

[edgy nebula]

bamboo is one we know for sure

[limpid summit]

Caretaker is another house fellow

[muted lantern]

What do you think they have?

[marble oasis]

Actually

[edgy nebula]

it's still present in wisp thicket and is what greymoor buildings are made from

[limpid summit]

Yeah

[marble oasis]

do you think skynx’s head is upside down because he had to hastily pop out to greet us?

and didn’t have time to put it on properly?

[edgy nebula]

id imagine they have grain since they used scythes

[dire lynx]

Could be

[edgy nebula]

or they probably used scythes

[muted lantern]

Bamboo probably isn't enough to sustain people tho

[muted lantern]

Maybe they used scissors

Or maybe silk snippers are two scythes attached without a handle

[edgy nebula]

reaper crest shouldve totally been a scissor crest lowkey that wouldve been baller

[dire lynx]

Considering they have windmills grain was certainly being worked with

[marble oasis]

Senti uses detached shears

[limpid summit]

No it’s upside down because he’s a Nosk and wants us the player to know it

[edgy nebula]

id imagine they also farmed aphids, nothing directly confirms it but cmoooooooon

[marble oasis]

true…

[edgy nebula]

id say grain, bamboo, aphid nectar, and aphid meat would be a pretty solid diet for a moorbug

[muted lantern]

So they have a wheat equivalent, maybe corn too? I still want them to have potatoes but that's just bc I love potatoes

[dire lynx]

Muchroach 🍽️

[muted lantern]

Do we see aphids in game?

[edgy nebula]

no

[muted lantern]

Or are they very small like bg ants

I guess they couldn't be small, because how would they be milked

[edgy nebula]

i feel like theyd have to be large if theyre supposed to be milked for nectar

[dire lynx]

We dont see them, but i would assume they are a more regular size

[edgy nebula]

yeah

[muted lantern]

Maybe aphids were the size of the little armored guys in shell wood?

The ones that fly out of the shell when broken

[edgy nebula]

do we think aphid nectar would be used to make a sort of pharloom eggnog

[muted lantern]

Do you guys think the hive made mead?

[dire lynx]

Ideally not

[muted lantern]

Since mead is made of honey

[whole holly]

yeah, they pretty much poop candy

[muted lantern]

It's very funny to imagine the massive fucking bees sitting at a bar

[edgy nebula]

i mean, if aphids are cows and the nectar is milk, it's semi possible? throw in like, a silkeater queen's egg and some spices and you have bugnog

[dire lynx]

Drunk hornet and hive knight romantic fanfic 🙏

[muted lantern]

Lol

Also, were the bees in the hive all Vespas kids?

[dire lynx]

Yes

[edgy nebula]

is the green prince regrowing verdania ever explained

[muted lantern]

I wonder if hornet even could get drunk, in gameplay she can chug away

[edgy nebula]

isnt that the opposite of what an old heart dying does

[muted lantern]

I imagine it withered with gps leaving, maybe it grows because he's made peace with his regrets?

[limpid summit]

I think it’s just a little thing to corroborate what Hornet says

To gilly

In the short term the environments will die but eventually they’re come back

Verdania been dead I guess

[dire lynx]

The power is passed on seemingly. Like in the real world short time destruction leads to long term flourishing in periodical cycles

[marble oasis]

prolly not

[edgy nebula]

who would green prince's power be passed on to then

hornet cause she hung his heart on her shelf?

[muted lantern]

Maybe with the heart removed/consumed it's power returns to the environment until a proper heir arrives

[dire lynx]

Maybe just back to the land itself?

[edgy nebula]

maybe, but in that case why doesnt the same happen to karmelita, or the other hearts

i mean, nyleth MAYBE cause her heart grows on a vine

[whole holly]

yeah, i think that, Shellwood can be spared and i will use green princes and other Old Hearts, should i do that? what lore implications?

[dire lynx]

Krust king was still alive and so is karm, there are also bugs still suitable for the heart in those places unlike verdania

[muted lantern]

Was Vespa a mother figure to hornet? Or just a mentor. I imagine it's the former because of child of three queens, but that's outside of game info thats not entirely canon.

In the sense of her being their child I mean

[muted lantern]

Crust heart goes to those huge guys in memorium lol

[dire lynx]

Mother in the form of a mentor, hornet probably spent alot of time in the hive whilst learning under vespa

[whole holly]

yeah in Red Memory, Herrah acts as mother then becomes Dreamer, then that role is taken up by White Lady, it makes sense for Vespa to be mentor

[whole holly]

but White Lady is Advisor more of and Vespa is mentor, they are both mothers in way, like how Shakra's master was mother as well

i loven Vespa scene most and herrah made me emotional, and it was good to see white lady i guess, she gave insights on lore

[dire lynx]

Probably one of khanns resting soldiers

[muted lantern]

If only we didn't murk watcher at the edge and feed him to worms

[dire lynx]

He does seem the most exceptional of the karaka

[edgy nebula]

kind of adds a new layer to "Wait till life anew"

[dire lynx]

I wonder if any verdanians fled pharloom

[whole holly]

i love Watcher at the Edge

if Verdania was swampy rainforest it makes sense to be near pharloom bay, i wonder if similar enemies or common species inhabit both?

[muted lantern]

Honestly I'm debating if hive knight was one of hornets past mates, it's a theory that gets put around a lot.

[dire lynx]

Its pure headcanon but i love it

He was fuzzy just like she loves

[whole holly]

it is interesting because Hive Knight is hornet's type but he is supposed to be strongest in the hive and technically Vespa's mate if we consider basic common sense biology

[dire lynx]

Hes also just very funny

[muted lantern]

I always assumed he was Vespas kid. Like the rest of the bees.

[whole holly]

yeah, but how do you think bee biology works, strongest male mates with queen, queen produces children, until new queen is born

[muted lantern]

HK doesn't really follow bug biology accurately. One can hope that aspect of bee biology is one of those things that isn't the same as irl

[dire lynx]

Who is it? I have two blocked people in this server. And what are they saying?

[whole holly]

i mean it may not apply to hive since it is biology but it is also common sense knowledge, unless Hive is entirely bee themed humaniod insects

[muted lantern]

Nika saying hive knight is Vespas mate.

[whole holly]

i hope she knows you can view blocked messages, with show/hide option

[dire lynx]

Why?

[whole holly]

no i am not saying it as fact, it may be plausible, it doesn't have evidence it is just harmless speculation

[dire lynx]

Or i should say, whats the reasoning

[muted lantern]

You can view messages even when blocked if you click on it I don't really feel comfortable speaking for him, as I don't wanna miscommunicate his argument. essentially he's citing bee biology.

[dire lynx]

Im aware of the feature, I just have no interest in directly interacting. I suppose this time ill read it though

[whole holly]

thank you for that, lot of people miscommunicate my arguments to their friends so they can demean it, lot of time, but to be fair i am just speculating, it can be possible

[dire lynx]

Okay ive read it and its just wrong.
Queen bees only mate once for life, they arent termites. Someone doesnt know hymenopteran reproductive strategies

[muted lantern]

Oh fr that's wild, I never knew that

[dire lynx]

Its the same for ants and wasps

(Ants are a type of wasp)

[muted lantern]

Actually I kinda remember something like that, the mating flight or smthn?

[dire lynx]

(Bees are also wasps)

[dire lynx]

Yes! In ants its called a nuptial flight

[whole holly]

“Only once” refers to the event of mating, not to the number of mates. The queen’s fertility depends on the diversity of that single mating episode.

[limpid summit]

Nika says yes queens mate once but they still mate with multiple worker bees during their mating period and their fertility depends on such

[muted lantern]

Also going by bee biology doesn't the mate die?

[dire lynx]

The female mates with a male and he dies afterwards, the female has a special organ that allows her to store or replicate (cant rememver which) sperm and lay eggs through her lifetime

[limpid summit]

I wouldn’t try and find a conclusive answer for Vespa biology

She’s not even consistent in universe

Her ghost shouldn’t be small

[dire lynx]

Yes, but they do this before settling in and making their own hive, and the males die after mating

Hive knight couldnt exist to have mated with her as she doesnt have her own hive yet

[whole holly]

that is honeybees, Honey‑bee (Apis mellifera), other bees such bumblebees, Stingless bees and Solitary bees usually/generally survive, Hive Knight looks like Bumblebee to me, tbh

[muted lantern]

So much bee lore today

But Vespa looks more like a wasp, no?

[whole holly]

people can view messages even after blocking you don't have to communicate to others, i can view blocked messages

[muted lantern]

Anyway I think Apple is right in we can't really use much direct comparisons in biology because tc plays very fast and loose with bug stuff.

[whole holly]

yeah, name Vespa means wasp i think

[muted lantern]

Hive knight has many many bees in his stomach

How does he do that? Where does he keep them? Very disturbing

[limpid summit]

Hornet is also named Hornet

[whole holly]

yeah true but i wouldn't be shocked if Hive Knight was mate for Queen

[limpid summit]

As far as we know Vespa is a bee

[whole holly]

Hornet and her Needle

[dire lynx]

Vespa is a hornet lmao

[graceful grail]

You need to rewind your save after you get bellheart so you can get widow

[muted lantern]

Anyway, if hornet views Vespa as her mother, would that make the hive hornets siblings, or step siblings I suppose? It doesn't seem like hornet really views them that way.

[whole holly]

i think HK hive are non-specific mix of bees and wasps, they might incorporate part of basic biology and omit other specific parts, but again it is speculation and proving/disproving is not really applicable in this situation

[whole holly]

and it is not necessary

[limpid summit]

What is it that calls them bees

[muted lantern]

Hornets relationship with Vespa doesn't strike me as adoptive, but Vespa also was kind of a mother to hornet. Idk, it's not like the distinction really matters

[limpid summit]

WJ?

[whole holly]

yeah, i agree

[dire lynx]

She wasnt actually adopted and I dont think hornet would see them as siblings

[muted lantern]

Ye that's what I said above, Vespa seems more like a teacher, maybe she had some motherly feelings toward hornet but I imagine hornet had too much baggage to call someone else mom.

A mentor, and kind of a mother

Like shakras master ig

[whole holly]

exactly, like i said

[muted lantern]

She definitely views Vespa as a mentor foremost

[dire lynx]

As i said before

Full circle discussion

[muted lantern]

Yeah I'm mostly just trying to gather my own thoughts on the matter, since the discussion derailed into bee biology.

[dire lynx]

Because someone started arguing for incest again

(Why has that happenned for two seperate pairs of chatacters now)

[muted lantern]

The only implication that Vespa was a mother figure to hornet is in like the title child of three queens, which was a very old development commentary, which seems like it was quite subject to change.

[whole holly]

why the snarky comments should i notify the mods about this, i already had them warned for insulting my comprehension and literacy.

[muted lantern]

I'm not touching this beef with a ten foot pole.

[whole holly]

yeah let's not....

[dire lynx]

What are they saying now

Oh, so it was you who got the mods on me?

[muted lantern]

I don't really wanna play messenger. I have no context, I feel like I'm in the middle of some shit I got no involvement in and it's awkward as hell.

[dire lynx]

What i said is true, you often struggle to compose legible sentences and also get stuck on stuff so hard you miss the points being made to you.
And in this case you were objectivley arguing for incest between vespa and hive knight

[whole holly]

The topic is scientific; it doesn’t contain graphic or explicit material. i am discussing biology because it is something TC is inspired by even if they don't comply, also what is evidence of Hive Knight being child of Vespa?

[muted lantern]

I mean there aren't any other hives around so idk where else he would come from

[whole holly]

part generations queen.. if TC follows basic universally known biology, as Vespa is not omnipresent throughout time

[muted lantern]

As I've said before I don't think tc knows much about bug biology, I think theyve said as much.

[whole holly]

yeah, i guess but i think they would know about generations, Old Hearts are generations of rulers, and Vespa is ruler of hive, she could be just another generation

[muted lantern]

I don't really think hive knight is older than Vespa, like all this stuff is technically possible but there just isn't really any text implying it. him being her kid does seem like the Occam's razor here.

[whole holly]

besides i don't think TC explicitly cares about implementing sociology and outlawing incest

[muted lantern]

I just dont think that's a topic they'd include in their game.

[dire lynx]

Yo, this guy actually just brought out one of the clover dancer incest arguments

[whole holly]

i mean Hive Knight isn't explicitly stated to be child of Vespa, if someone wants to prove that it is incest they have to prove Hive Knight is vespa's child

[muted lantern]

Anyway can we move on from this topic, there's only so much bee incest discussion that I can handle before I want to cave my own skull in with a golf club

[whole holly]

yeah, but still, i don't think they would make Vespa mother of Hive Knight, it is just speculation

[dire lynx]

Back to the question I asked way back, about verdania. Do we think any fled or do we think they are more the type to stick around and die with their land?

[edgy nebula]

probably die

their two princes fell to the citadel's strength and locked himself away forever respectively so i dont think theyd have enough hope to live on

if green prince had his kingdom in mind i dont doubt they couldve fled to somewhere else

[muted lantern]

I don't know it feels like at least something should have survived. It would certainly be narratively nice to have some remnant hidden away that could reclaim verdania and the culture that was so thoroughly stamped out.

[whole holly]

yeah, i think similar flora might be in Pharloom Bay because of proximity

[dire lynx]

We have zekrom and reshiram here 😭

[whole holly]

i am not so sure about bug-life

[muted lantern]

On an older topic from today do you guys think the old hearts still get passed down after the spell consumes them? I was considering including watcher at the edge inheriting the crust heart somewhere in my fic. He's still alive in that since it's based on my playthrough, and not counting what I did after getting sotv.

Or they, do we get a gender for watcher

[whole holly]

i think lands could be revitalized and produce another strong/mortal ruler but i don't think Old Hearts will get passed down

[muted lantern]

Moss heart would be fire

[muted lantern]

Hmm ig, it does seem like the hearts power is fully consumed by the spell, at least according to the shamans dialogue. Though thats not to say new hearts couldn't be formed.

[whole holly]

i always think about Moss Heart my beloved, i hope Moss Druid gives strength to interesting NPC like Trobbio rather than himself

[muted lantern]

I think trobbio would join the Grimm troupe.

[whole holly]

exactly, that's what i think, i think Moss Druid alludes to it

[muted lantern]

I feel like if there's a nightmare lantern in pharloom tormented trobbio would light it.

[whole holly]

i doubt it but i think Trobbio might not be joining a cult in his sad condition, he does want Pharloom to be alive again, so that's something

[muted lantern]

In act 3 he seems content with the kingdoms death

I think he kinda becomes a nihilist after hornet beats his ass

[whole holly]

really, Moss Druid better change his mind

[muted lantern]

Also, is moss druid a he? people keep calling them that

[whole holly]

Sorrowful Trobbio with Plasmium , or Enlightened Trobbio with Moss heart

[whole holly]

i meant Moss Druid better change Trobbio's(his) Mind

[muted lantern]

Ik but I've seen others he/him them so I wondering if I missed somethin

I think it's just unspecified

[whole holly]

it is dw, i love Moss Druid, but i thought Moss Druid was wise old woman full of knowledge of the world

[stone axle]

moss druid is all pronouns

https://tenor.com/view/gif-gif-9403556598434283568

[dapper tree]

anyone ever notice that in the og trailer fourth chorus had strings pulling it like a puppet?

[halcyon merlin]

https://tenor.com/view/idle-strings-hanging-dangling-head-turn-gif-27348923

[ionic basalt]

Or () is a crackhead cooking poisonous berry

[scenic shuttle]

She has some kind of drug trip

[marble oasis]

for what it’s worth they’re voiced by lauren koopowitz so probably not a guy

[bright python]

this is so late but real i love them

[bright python]

i noticed moss druid uses they/them to refer to themselves

i may or may not be insane

[whole holly]

you are right: To interrupt a humble druid as they work!

am i only one who wants Abyss Creature to be kinda like Stranger Things Vecna or Mind Flayer

did i do good job of portraying what i mean?

[whole holly]

kinda matches sea of sorrows DLC

[bright python]

yeah i think so

[whole holly]

thanks

[stray fog]

Lifeblood does the mind control part

I can't think of other similarities

[whole holly]

yeah

[stray fog]

Gms is like the mind flayer

[whole holly]

it does change nature of host and uses them to propagate

[stray fog]

Spider who starts a hivemind

[stray fog]

[whole holly]

GMS is more like puppeteer, Abyss Creature is more direct analogy

[stray fog]

The Mindflayer lives in the abyss
So does the lifeblood creature

(I know this doesn't actually mean anything, but I'll mention it anyway)

[whole holly]

yeah, Dream Realm is like portal for him

[jagged igloo]

one thing that ive notice is silk can only control bugs below a user

widow could only do it when in the upper bellvein as well as the surface right above the cradle being silk free

[stray fog]

Yes this is why the surface bugs are not haunted

[jagged igloo]

so GMS making thee citadel above the entirety of pharloom seems beyond just forcing people to make the climb

[glossy agate]

Nah it is more of a squid than an half life strider

Like multiple arms and like a body of a whale

[whole holly]

Everyone has their own interpretation of full body but that doesn’t really matter

[wanton rose]

I think it's kinda wild that the shamans die during the ritual to create the everbloom

I think they knew that would happen and never mentioned it anyway

[glossy agate]

Yeah i agree

The shape of the lifeblood being is the friends we made along the way

[wanton rose]

then again there's bug sacrifices in their chapel so maybe we shouldn't be all that sympathetic

[glossy agate]

Also they kinda caused act 3

Maybe it was the best outcome

[pliant crag]

Holy cinema

[stray fog]

Bell hermit did it purely for the love of the game

Bro simply wanted to see all that soul being used

[pliant crag]

I want him to look like that

Maybe with butterly wings simce lifeblood tends to have them

[wanton rose]

well there weren't any good options for getting out of act 2

[glossy agate]

Nah, wasn’t the hermit kinda rude before he was revealed to be a snail shaman

[glossy agate]

True

All gms endings suck

[stray fog]

What Im saying is that the hermit didn't didn't care about saving pharloom. He was just interested in seeing what would happen

[wanton rose]

being an ass has nothing to do with it

[glossy agate]

Hmm

Snail shamans smh

And their soul black magic

https://tenor.com/view/hollow-knight-shelley-snail-gif-16225479440638122011

Pharloom bae💔

[pliant crag]

Rip shelly 🥀💔

[glossy agate]

Unn decided to abandon her house🥀

Shelly is real🏠

[jagged igloo]

also

people point out how the shamans saying they have a fixation with void like its common knowledge even tho it wasnt stated in the 1st game is kinda redundant

we dont know how long its been between the 2 cuz all reacurring chaaracters are immortal

so they mightve picked it up in that time

another thing

what if the blackbarrens are hallownest

what if the embrace the void ending is the ending silksong continues off of and the void consumed hallownest from the godseeeker

and the commandment in the cradle is about hornet

[limpid summit]

I doubt it was a super long time

Long enough for the culture of an entire race to change like that at least

I think TC just didn’t think about that one line

[stray fog]

Its not necessarily about immortality
Many characters live for a very long time

Emelita, quirrel, seth, ogrim, etc.

[jagged igloo]

well yes, but we dont know how long that time is

to rule an "eternal" kingdom you'd need an absurdly long lifespan

[stray fog]

The Blackbarrens one?

[jagged igloo]

yeah

not a real theory

just smth i thought of

[stray fog]

It says that the descendant is 1/8 weaver

Hornet is 1/2

[jagged igloo]

ah

didnt see

so if only herrah can reproduce(?)

and herrah's only hier was hornet

but then again

im not that in the lore

so idk

maybe the others can lay eggs

so who tapped sum weaver ahh

[stray fog]

The pale king

[jagged igloo]

no no not just him

theres other weaver kids

[little bane]

why is bell beast aka biddle buddy so cute there has gotta be a reason

[lyric rose]

And Widow

She’s lived for like ages despite being physically mangled

I just had a thought

What if Widow intentionally mangled her own silk-producing parts so she wouldn’t be taken by the Citadel?

[low oracle]

Pretty sure that isn't the case either.

[low oracle]

She supports GMS so she'd have no reason to take her. Instead it makes much more sense for the other weavers to have punished her, by removing her mask and staking her.

First Sinner was probably imprisoned by both the conductors and some weavers together. While the cage has the typical conductor aesthetic and the citadel's mark, the cage is sealed by powerful silk runes, which only the weavers could have created.

[plain gazelle]

I like how Silksong is generally better about defining bugs' lifespans. In HK regular bugs just kind of live as long as is plot relevant. In silksong I think there's a good reason for all the bugs that have lived a long time

Though I guess it's more important they pay attention to that, since the mortal/immortal bug divide is more plot relevant

[plain mountain]

my opinion on silksong's major npcs-bosses

[low oracle]

Lmao, tf did Green Prince do? And why is the literal thief so high? Did you consider Shakra and Garmond the same rank, both NPC and Bossfight?

Also, caretaker is an asshole.

[plain mountain]

caretaker isn't an asshole

i don't like green prince he is a bum that gave up on life

[low oracle]

"How dare you help these pilgrims"-Basically what caretaker says. Besides that, the snail shamans as a whole (SS) pretty much deceived Hornet.

[low oracle]

Being sad for the death of your lover puts you lower than an idiot drug addict?

[plain mountain]

well first of all my ranking only included my liking - disliking to that caracther from a lore prespective and i didn't like green prince that much he could've redeemed himself and idk do smthg as a ruler of a kingdom(verdania suck too) before the citadel but he chose to stay in a random cage in sinner road then in act 3 he simply chose to die

i like the care taker trying to redeem himself + using void is his only option to have a chance to beat gms ... + how would they predict gms resisting the void and haunting the kingdom

[limpid summit]

Peak Lace slander I have no words

[plain mountain]

she is the best caracther lore wise and writing but i simply don't like her : (

like i cannot understand her

[sinful nimbus]

I don't fw Lace either

[plain mountain]

don't ever disrespect grindle again i liked him a lot

[low oracle]

Your opinion can't be argued either way. But objectively there are definitely many things wring.

[limpid summit]

It is an easy thing to explain simply

[sinful nimbus]

Maybe mid b tier actually but its hard to overlook the game randomly focusing on her to the detriment of the plot

[plain mountain]

him being a theif and having a lot of funny interactions is what carried

[low oracle]

Hornet and Grindle both steal things equally. He's an asshole because I helped him escape, and he didn't help me.

[limpid summit]

When the worst character you know becomes the driving force of the climax

Wait why is Bell Beast so low

[sinful nimbus]

I got beef with whoever replaces the Old Stag and doesn't live up to his legacy

[plain mountain]

sherma is the best npc in both games

[sinful nimbus]

Bell Beast is a disgrace

[plain mountain]

no

[limpid summit]

That’s not ridiculous it’s not ridiculous to say that

Sherma haters are deranged

[sinful nimbus]

I like Sherma but its Caretaker be fr

[limpid summit]

I think the best NPCs in the series in no particular order are Sherma Ogrim and Quirrel

[low oracle]

Then don't ever use it again during Silksong. You have to live up to your claims.

[low oracle]

And Seth.

[sinful nimbus]

I don't play Silksong

[limpid summit]

Snail shamans before act 3: 😄👵👴🏻
Snail shamans during act 3: 😐😐😐

[low oracle]

Okay?

[sinful nimbus]

This is true of Sherma too

[limpid summit]

Homogenizing the shamans was terrible

[sinful nimbus]

Sherma does nothing in Act 3 dawg

No one does

[limpid summit]

Imagine if all the Dreamers thought the exact same

[limpid summit]

It’s about personality

Sherma doesn’t become a boor

He ties the shawl over his big ahh hat

This is peak

[sinful nimbus]

Shamans actually are the best part of Act 3 because reintroducing the wizard tribe interested in power when introducing the powers before Silk makes sense

[low oracle]

That isn't his original shawl.

[limpid summit]

No yes

[low oracle]

"the wizard tribe"

[limpid summit]

I love pre act 3 caretaker

He’s top 10

And I don’t hate the snail shamans as a group

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah?

[limpid summit]

But that’s what they are

The group

[sinful nimbus]

They're wizards vro they cast spells

[limpid summit]

It’s not Bell Hermit Caretaker Chapel Maiden

[low oracle]

Shamans do too.

[limpid summit]

They could have been 3 completely different dudes

[sinful nimbus]

That's true they aren't perfect

[sinful nimbus]

Uh, yeah I'm talking about the shamans

They're wizards

[low oracle]

Good, that'd be racist.

[low oracle]

Shamans. Not snail shamans. Literal shamans do too.

Shamans are void, and there is nothing that can convince me otherwise.

[sinful nimbus]

???

bro just trying to stir the pot

[low oracle]

This is lore, so there has to be some lore.

And Shamans complete all the checks of a void entity.

[sinful nimbus]

This has nothing to do with me calling the shamans wizards

[limpid summit]

Best NPCs in Silksong are Sherma, Caretaker, Skynx

[low oracle]

True, but what am I supposed to say to that? Besides, not every shaman is male.

[low oracle]

Skynx? He killed Styx, how is he the best?

[sinful nimbus]

You don't have to argue against literally everything in this channel much less a message that wasn't directed towards you 🥀

[limpid summit]

He killed bottom 5 how is he top 5

Jokes

Styx is cool too

But a dude gotta eat

[low oracle]

I didn't...

[limpid summit]

Any crumb of Deepnest is great in my book

[low oracle]

Styx feeds Hornet unlimited Silkeaters. So Styx is far better.

[low oracle]

Nosk?

[limpid summit]

Yes sir

Yes he doesn’t shapeshift

Yes he might not read minds

But he’s still probably a Nosk

[gentle aspen]

😐

[plain mountain]

a thing that disappointed me

why maskmakers live like in the absolute edge of the map

and do nothing but drop a thing or two about lore

i would've liked more things from them

[limpid summit]

NUX TAKU

[stray fog]

Shes already loyal to gms

[low oracle]

I wouldn't be so sure, since none of Nosk's unique abilities are shown. Nosk can:
-create identical organic masks (and other material)
-compress themselves
-read minds
-mirror minds (dreamnail reflects the Knight's thoughts)
-Change their body (probably, since Winged Nosk exists and they are the same being)

We don't know if Nosk can speak, I would say probably.

[whole holly]

hey star good to see you, i want to ask you a question

[stray fog]

Read minds?

[low oracle]

How else would Nosk know how to behave, and what form to take?

[blissful harbor]

reading minds is how it finds a face to shapeshift into

[stray fog]

True

Why did nosk decide to look like the knight in order to kill the knight? Is it because tk had no other loved ones

[limpid summit]

If Skynx created an organic mask of the dude who’s mask was still on in the other room that would raise suspicion

[lyric rose]

She can’t help grandma wake up if she gets captured by the citadel for her silk

[limpid summit]

Also Skynx has no needolin dialogue

Mirroring Nosk’s lack of dnd

[low oracle]

Because the body isn't suspicious?

[limpid summit]

I don’t think that’s because it mirrors TK its mind is alien or blocked off

[limpid summit]

A dudes gotta eat

Hornet understands that

[whole holly]

what do you guy think about this being full body of abyss creature, they are basically mind flayer:

[blissful harbor]

TK is a blank slate yes, theres also other bugs thst claim nosk had their own face on
so a bugs own face is probably also a strategy yoo

[lyric rose]

Nah I imagine it being more like a gigantic tiktik

[blissful harbor]

giant butterfly

[stray fog]

Yes

[limpid summit]

That’s peak

[stray fog]

I believe in the butterfly theory

Or a butterfly pupa atleast

[gentle aspen]

Hehe

poopa

[low oracle]

Depends on your stance on wether the Knight is hollow. I say they are, depending on the ending. Lost Kin has no dialogue either, an it is literally hollow (no shade, hollow like the false knight armor).

[low oracle]

Should have been the Ultrakill Mindflayer.

[gentle aspen]

well no

[crimson patio]

Giant sea slug is my personal belief

[stray fog]

The knight showed up to save hornet

So not hollow

[gentle aspen]

if they have “the capability to become impure” then they aren’t pure

[foggy fractal]

dung defender reference?

[low oracle]

The citadel wants Weavers because of GMS.

[gentle aspen]

purity is meant to be an everlasting state and WL herself says THK was ill judged “because it was tarnished” blah blah bkah

[low oracle]

Depending on the ending

[stray fog]

And it also united the void under its will

[crimson patio]

I mean all of the vessels are literally hollow (as in, there’s nothing but void inside), but none of them are pure (without mind, will, or thought)

[whole holly]

thank you i did it myself

[stray fog]

Oh

[low oracle]

By that logic a good person couldn't turn evil.

[limpid summit]

On Skynx:
Not only would a hypothetical mind reading betray that Hornet is likely familiar with Nosks, but shapeshifting is a long and loud process

[low oracle]

Wait, can I ping mods? My bad if I'm not supposed to.

[crimson patio]

That’s
A terrible correlation lmao

[limpid summit]

Easier for Skynx to just slap on the head than risk setting off Hornet for plausible deniability

[gentle aspen]

yes if you apply this specific argument to something entirely ill fitting the logic falls apart

[low oracle]

The main question would be, why there are multiple Nosks.

[gentle aspen]

It isn’t even an argument it’s just what White Lady says
“Its supposed strength was ill judged, it was tarnished by an idea instilled.”

[crimson patio]

The pale king believed in absolute purity

His vessels/the void cannot become impure no matter what

And he was wrong

[limpid summit]

Hunter already says there are

[blissful harbor]

more like an unbreakable blade isn’t truly unbreakable if i go and hit some fucking steel of something

by definition TK was never pure if it was tarnishable, same way an unbreakable blade was never truly unbreakable if it’s broken

[low oracle]

I believe the argument makes sense. And when I say "depending on the ending", that doesn't conclude the Knight changed. That would mean they were the same on each ending, but not always the same in each ending.

[crimson patio]

I mean Nosks arent like an endangered species or anything

And we don’t even know if they are long lived or immortal
How are they to continue their survival without multiple of them and reproduction?

[low oracle]

And doesn't "an idea instilled" mean the impurity came from their desires. Nevermind, that doesn't make sense in context.

[gentle aspen]

what

[crimson patio]

Point is the idea shouldn’t have been instillable in the first place

The void is supposed to be pure

[low oracle]

If you guys reply to me, please ping me. I'll not see the messages otherwise.

[edgy nebula]

oh i didnt know joker got mod again

that’s cool

[foggy fractal]

no this is a different guy trust, this is Trickster

[edgy nebula]

makes sense

[livid void]

Anyone know how old hornet is

[edgy nebula]

we arent sure exactly but many characters describe her as old in silksong

[crimson patio]

She’s old

[pliant crag]

Centuries old or more since she was born before the second wave of infection

[astral trout]

have we ever gotten confirmation the bugs of the HK universe use human time though?

maybe bugs in the universe die in what would be a day for us

and they just experience the world slower

like flys irl who think at like 10x human speed

[crystal marsh]

nope, we have no idea as to the game's timespan

all that is ever used are "years"

[compact lark]

is lost verdania just an ancient version of bilewater

[marble oasis]

wdym

location wise?

[desert yoke]

Are first sinner and the thing which runs away quickly after you get weaversong (in hollow knight) related?

[midnight reef]

no, Lost Verdania is a seperate area

Maybe reflective of what Bilewater might have once looked like, but beyond knowing that bilewater was once nicer nothing truely suggests this

[marble oasis]

Lost verdania was in present day verdania

Of which is like two rooms

And no plants

[lapis creek]

sisters, in theory

[pale narwhal]

theyre both weavers
but aside from that

[desert yoke]

Ah

[unborn nova]

How do verdanian plants grow around Green Prince's corpse?

[compact lark]

The other clover dancer couldve sacrificed himself to try to save verdania

[marble oasis]

Old heart chicanery

[marble oasis]

He did do that and it didn’t work

Or it worked for the citadel but then Verdania fell to the Haunting anyway

[compact lark]

Yes so the citadel made verdania into bilewater

[marble oasis]

No

[compact lark]

Ok

[marble oasis]

They made lost verdania (green) into present day verdania (not green)

[crimson patio]

I mean
If both of the rulers of verdania sacrificed themselves who would be left to protect the land?

Will colonizers just stop once you give into their demands?

[marble oasis]

If you explore the caves past GP and the body you find Verdania which maps exactly onto Lost Verdania

For the two rooms that are present

[edgy nebula]

it contradicts what we see said about the old hearts and their environments, but we can theorize

[marble oasis]

Hence chicanery

[unborn nova]

Maybe the plants growing around Green Prince is related to why the Memorium struggles to preserve Verdania.

[gentle aspen]

well theoretically the old hearts passing would lead to the land sprouting once again

also was the citadel actually directly related to verdania’s current situation

I forgot

[spark valve]

They were in power when it happened so uh maybe

Hornet seems to think so but Hornet is dumb

[gentle aspen]

hmm

[floral venture]

Question; what actually are silk hearts?

[muted lantern]

I think they are just concentrations of gms's power, we only really find them after destroying something related to a large concentration of silk. Gms uses a ton of silk to seal bell beast, so we cut the silk away and get a silk heart after the fight. We slay the unravvelled which is a massive concentration of silk and the origin of how gms got so much influence on the pilgrims, and lace who we know took an incredible amount of silk to create and sustain. Since it just forms out of the air I assume its not a part of the thing we kill but just a thing that forms when we defeat a large concentration of gms's power.

and everytime get one we get words of gms

[unborn nova]

hmm, why seal bell beast?

[marble oasis]

I think he sacrificed himself to the citadel but Verdania fell to the Haunting

[marble oasis]

One theory is that GMS did it to give Hornet an ally

When we collect BB’s silk heart she’s excited to meet us

[unborn nova]

So, is Bell Beast haunted?

[marble oasis]

No

[muted lantern]

Likely to block travel for everyone, or at least hornet specifically after knowing of her escape.

most likely specifically to hinder hornet

because pilgrims don't use the bellway

[unborn nova]

It is a sin for them to use fast travel

[marble oasis]

Pharloom citizens didn’t travel via bell beast though

[muted lantern]

i did just correct that like 2 lines below lol

[marble oasis]

No as in even the ones that used the bellway

[muted lantern]

I don't really think anyone uses the bellway anymore. Besides all we know about how the bellway used to be travelled with is in carraiges. I just presume bbs used to pull the carraiges.

as that just feels like the simplest explanation for why it's so accustomed to the bellways.

[marble oasis]

BB looks awfully unsuited to pulling a carriage

[marble oasis]

By this logic Bell Eater could have pulled the carriages

[gentle aspen]

I mean

probably not

Eira’s only a little violent after being strung up for so long

[marble oasis]

Her shape is all wrong

Where are you fitting a harness

[muted lantern]

i mean if these were fancy carraiges im sure they could make some sort of apparatus.

[gentle aspen]

You put the thing in mouth
mouth has rope
Rope pulls

[tawdry flare]

seems like it would hurt

[muted lantern]

Its also just a less interesting explanation to say the carraiges were pulled by some creature we've never seen or heard of.