sk-lore

[twin dragon]

in the same game

[whole holly]

that's interesting to me, and have some sort of synergy with Plasmium

[gentle aspen]

crests are basically the summation of a bug’s being and personality

[whole holly]

not to me, Knight is able to resist Plasmification because his Shell and Void as Vital Fluid

[gentle aspen]

!wiki Crest

[oak meadow]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Crests

Hollow Knight Wiki

Crests

Crests are a special type of collectible in Hollow Knight: Silksong that allow Hornet to use different Needle attacks and equip different Tools.

[gentle aspen]

You speak of their crest? That signifier of a bug's essence and their invisible yoke born through a lifetime

[whole holly]

yeah it is bugs essence and soul imprint

[astral trout]

tbh though i dont think the crest would be plasmium see as acrectects already has an interaction with plasmium, I think there will be another plasmium tool

[whole holly]

that somewhat cements connection between essence and soul

[twin dragon]

Yeah, how did they discover that

[whole holly]

maybe they can sense Silk/Soul imprint in some way, that's not relevant to gameplay

[gentle aspen]

they deal with soul and in general have issues/knowledge on their identity

[whole holly]

yeah, me too, that would make sense but anything is possible, we don't really get trailers for DLCs just teasers so, i am excited for 2026 release, only 360 days left

[twin dragon]

they better take their time

[whole holly]

for some reason i think early 2026 and they just didn't want to overpromise that's why they said 2026

[twin dragon]

i want my dlc to have qol changes and be well seasoned

[stray fog]

I hope the dlc releases after may

[astral trout]

dw thats team cherry's specialty

[jaunty brook]

Call me hornet the way i have no family

[whole holly]

i mean it is mostly Cut Content returning, so other than QoL changes they are gonna manage

[whole holly]

i am content with whenever it is going to release but summer seems best with swimming mechanic

[twin dragon]

unfortunately act 3 is rushed

[gentle aspen]

Her sibling literally deus ex machina’d her out of sotv ending

[jaunty brook]

Thats like the only time she'll ever see them again

[gentle aspen]

nah

[whole holly]

it suffered from rewrite and cut content, not making as much narrative sense as it should

[gentle aspen]

she goes back to hallownest they’ll dap each other up and shi

tea parties

[jaunty brook]

Do any of them even eat?

[astral trout]

Summer is a good time to realse stuff because people will play and therfore talk about the game more

[gentle aspen]

They don’t need to but they can

[whole holly]

no, Hornet is not coming back to Hallownest, that's for sure

[whole holly]

free time and all that

[twin dragon]

narratively's pretty good but introduced elements such as old hearts don't get developed too much

[jaunty brook]

Would she even know how to get back

[primal ingot]

Depends

[twin dragon]

and gameplay wise there's not much exploration

wish we got the entirety of old hearts kingdoms

[jaunty brook]

I feel like they were in that cage for a LONG time

And i doubt she was concious the whole time

[whole holly]

narrative with old hearts is what i am complaining about, they seem to have cut song aspects

[astral trout]

why with the backround you get for beating LL i thought it was implied the were to leave pharloom

[gentle aspen]

quirrel with a shit memory managed to make his way back to hallownest

[jaunty brook]

The mask led him there

[whole holly]

i mean she can explore until hallownest direction if she really wanted to

[astral trout]

and horent only reason to stay in Pharloom was to investigate and liberate pharloom she said it herself

[whole holly]

yeah but i think direction is Sea of Sorrows/ Pharloom Bay direction

[astral trout]

perhaps farsight could lead her back

[gentle aspen]

The mask didn’t do that

[jaunty brook]

When you try to leave through the blasted steps entrance she says she can't until she finds out why she was pursued

[gentle aspen]

it was his faded memories

[jaunty brook]

It was the mask

[whole holly]

make enough sense if Farsight isn't limited, it is kinda like World Sense, right?

[gentle aspen]

where’s your proof for that statement

the mask doesn’t have guiding map capabilities as far as we know

[twin dragon]

wheres mine coral towah

[jaunty brook]

He was called into hallownest

[twin dragon]

wheres mine skarr kingdom

[jaunty brook]

Like the knight

And he has the mask

[twin dragon]

wheres mine nothing, because nyleth grew out into shellwood

[whole holly]

Quirrel felt monomon calling, mask is his only connection with monomon

[jaunty brook]

What he said

Monomon knew the seal would fail

[astral trout]

plus the icon looks similar to the weavers map of the world so i dont think its farfecthed, plus horent is still loyal to pharloom and was most likey rebuilding there when she got yoinked

[gentle aspen]

feeling an urge to return doesn’t mean it gave them a mental map back to the area

[whole holly]

do you think Lace and Hornet left though nameless village, blasted steps or cut entrance of Pharloom Bay?

[jaunty brook]

It guided him to the general area of hallownest

Once he got there he just explored

Its why we see him in so many places

Like crystal peak

The opposite direction of fog canyon

[whole holly]

nobody even claimed mask gave him mental map, Quirrel was called like knight was

[gentle aspen]

The quirrel comic shows that he sees hallownest in his dreams
from his memories

[twin dragon]

blasted steps def

that's the most obvious exit

[gentle aspen]

he explored those areas because his memories were spotty and he enjoys exploration

[astral trout]

well her dialog about saying she needs to stay until she finds out whats going on is in BS so i would guess that'

[twin dragon]

and that's where hornet fell from

[whole holly]

yeah, it seems that way but who will explore Sea of Sorrows if they canonically left? Joni resurrected, lol

[jaunty brook]

Only reason he has the memories is because of the mask

Which is how monomon called him back

His memories played a part too

[astral trout]

well for stuff like nightmare dlc it takes place during the knights journy

[gentle aspen]

Well yes, the mask protected him from losing his mind in the wastes. Instead his memories were fractured and mostly lost

even at the end of the game he doesn’t remember everything

[whole holly]

yeah but if any of DLCs bring Act 4 they are going to have to address some things

[astral trout]

so i think sea of sorrow will take place pre LL and more likely pre act 3

[jaunty brook]

That reminds me i still need to go beat uumuu on my xbox save

[twin dragon]

Sos could be happening pre ending doe

[astral trout]

yeah but i dont think the very first dlc will bring an act 4

[whole holly]

that would make sense

[whole holly]

that may be true

[twin dragon]

Or it could be content accessible initially from act 2

[whole holly]

okay, i agree

[twin dragon]

i wonder how will they make it fit into the story

as act 3 has this sense of urgency

[jaunty brook]

The dlc will be an intermission

[twin dragon]

aside from fleatopia shit

[astral trout]

i thonk cuz of the salty water area in bilewater and the ducts

[gentle aspen]

Well fleatopia is meant to be a swan song of death

so

Hope it isn’t act locked at all

[jaunty brook]

The void pales in power compared to a mere flea

[astral trout]

on all the production maps the entrences were in the citadel

[gentle aspen]

minor spelling mistake

anyways sure but they could’ve just changed it

[astral trout]

true but we have salty sea areas on the rightmost edges of bilewater and the ducts

so i think the entrence will be by one of those

[twin dragon]

Yeah but hornet has more important shit to do instead of celebrating death

[gentle aspen]

well she also has more important shit to do than help zylotol fuck shit up in wormways even more but she can still do it

she can still get cursed in act 3 too

[whole holly]

i wish we get memory of Flealia

[astral trout]

i wonder if we will get more stuff to do with elegy of the deep

its such a cool feature

[whole holly]

yeah

[twin dragon]

the zylotol shit is act 2 mainly soo

and if hornet gets cursed in act 3 that's natural selection honestly

pharloom gotta go

[limpid summit]

<@&283547423706447872>

Tf they even think this one was gonna do

How many Russian users do we have

[balmy reef]

huh, they’re in Russian now

[whole holly]

russians are kinda notorious for scamming and hacking

[twin dragon]

The exact same type of scam has been around for a while

[whole holly]

where is body of water that's somehow below Wormways, near Mosslands and also below Weavenest Alta, or is that not unified body of water or more like Swampy area?

[twin dragon]

i'd say it's a swamp

[whole holly]

that's map, so yeah i would say that too, left over from Karak's water source it seems since Mossy area developed, but what's interesting is that if that's true Lava/Magma borders that swamp/body of water

[whole holly]

maybe naturally occuring magma evaporated water back up to karaks

[twin dragon]

interesting water cycle

[whole holly]

and Citadel somehow mitigated and started mining it and that effect disappeared as seen in marrow, stopping water cycle altogether

[twin dragon]

i'd say the gorge has something to do with mt fay

due to its location

[whole holly]

it would explain why shellwood is moist

[whole holly]

Mt Fay would make sense to keep frozen water reserves are permafrost , disappearing magma/heat source altered water cycle of Half of Pharloom quite literally, since Citadel Artificially eroded it

[whole holly]

they built heat resistant structures blocking off heat that would evaporate Mt Fays reserves and also Moss Grotto swampy area

[twin dragon]

you're talking about deep docks right?

the upper left section is largely untouched by the citadel

[whole holly]

Deep Dock and Marrow also have magma plates beneath it until we go to abyss at least

[twin dragon]

Marrow hasn't rlly been touched by the cit

unlike deep docks

[whole holly]

yeah buy evaporation of Karaks seem to be fairly recent, Deep Docks construction seem to have started at overlapping with memorium so i would say conductors/architects did that, given how hot air travels upwards and in Diving Bell area Structures mostly contain magma exposure it makes sense that Deep Docks and nearby construction impacted Karaks

[twin dragon]

Though khann states to have been the last ones fighting the "pale light"

The water drying up could've been due to khann and his army going to stasis

[whole holly]

infrastucture seams to have blocked off heat source from melting mount fay and resulted in Mt Fay being Permafrost and moss grotto being swamp and Wormways and Blested Steps being dry, but also wind seems to have opposite impact too, wind usually carries moisture so it seems to be what keeps Shellwood moist/rainforest but i would say monsoon/swap personally

[near thistle]

No. They died due to the lack of water. The citadel took it all.

[twin dragon]

we dont know if thats the case

[near thistle]

A big part of the Citadel is there greed and careless destruction of the environment.

[whole holly]

Pale Light/GMS controlled Citadel, so i would say that happened at start of haunting?? since Karmelita and Khann both resisted it up until fairly recently, given how Khann's body and everyone's body isn't decomposed by intact

[twin dragon]

Yes, modifying core components of a cycle has drastic consequences

[twin dragon]

We know that khann isn't the first ruler of karak so maybe

[whole holly]

it would line up with Greymoor/Deep Docks and Memorium infrastructure

[twin dragon]

verdania is also destroyed by the haunted

[whole holly]

i mean i tried to isolate Environmental Factors, such as Wind from Wastes and Moss Grotto being near magma also being swamp

[whole holly]

Verdania seems to be also destroyed environmentally, otherwise Weavers seem to have coexisted with those Kingdoms/Areas mostly, Post-Haunting Citadel made it worse

[near thistle]

Important factor is that the magma is not naturally there. It’s stated that the operations in Deep Docks have disturbed the rocks and magma, causing it to rise into areas it wasn’t previously before

[twin dragon]

Don't forget the old heart rulers are tied to their respective territory

[twin dragon]

source?

[whole holly]

Nyleth seems to be Higher Being as they exist above all bugs and Nyleth is connected to all life of shellwood(including bugs) if that connection is one-sided then Nyleth can connect to bugs at will, She may be mortal or just hibernating/sleeping she may be reborn so who knows, immortality isn't key to being Higher Being, that's something Pale Being have more

[twin dragon]

nyleth isn't a higher being

she would be far more powerful

if she were to be one

[whole holly]

i mean i doubt that Magma was present in some way, maybe underneath of bodies of water that evaporated and Citadel disturbed that cycle

[twin dragon]

She grew out into the first steps of the creation of the ecosystem that would be known as shellwood

[near thistle]

I don’t remember if it explicitly states that Deep Docks is causing the rising magma, but it is definitely noted that the magma lake is rising and heading into areas it wasn’t previously before.

[whole holly]

Higher Being isn't determined by raw strength, unn is pretty weak imo

[twin dragon]

Yes, but unn has far more impressive feats

[whole holly]

yeah she propagated like White Lady did, what's the issue?

[twin dragon]

isma did aswell

is isma a hb?

[whole holly]

feats don't determine Higher Beings

[whole holly]

Isma isn't stated to be connected to all living things of her grove

[twin dragon]

doesn't mean jack shit

[stray grove]

Nyleth isn’t a HB because the Snail Shamans say all three hearts combined are required to equal the power of one HB (GMS)

[twin dragon]

They're all strong mortals

[whole holly]

Higher Beings can have varying powers though

[stray grove]

The hearts are the powers of the land they’re just the last to have inherited those powers

[stray grove]

Yes but she’s obviously not a HB

We’re also told only one monarch’s claws ever gripped the kingdom

[twin dragon]

They're still strong mortals

[stray grove]

It doesn’t really matter what you call them

They’re not HBs

[near thistle]

Nyleth seems to be something between a common bug and a higher being.

[twin dragon]

nyleth's def not a "common bug"

[stray grove]

That’s what the hearts are

[twin dragon]

the wielders of the hearts*

[stray grove]

They’re obviously more powerful than the common bug but there was only ever one HB in Pharloom

[near thistle]

Higher beings are gods. Whatever Nyleth and the other Old Ones are are probably more like the equivalent of spirits or something.

[whole holly]

i mean Higher Being is so vague atp though, Nyleth is as accomplished as White Lady, she seems to be controlling Seth

[stray grove]

Not “as accomplished” lol and that doesn’t matter

[twin dragon]

seth has no lore we don't know

[stray grove]

Her feats are irrelevant when we’re literally told she’s not as strong as a HB individually

The hearts aren’t even the originators of that power

They just inherited the power that was already in the land

[whole holly]

to be honest Old Hearts are meant to be parallels of Dreamers, they have memories, but Monomon and Nyleth are most interesting imo

[twin dragon]

Though if nyleth was the first seed of shellwood, and the hearts are inherited, is there a cycle of decay and growth of different forests?

[whole holly]

that only makes sense for Last Succesors, but Nyleth is original unless she is just incarnation of Voice of Wood?

[whole holly]

her pollen heart may not be inherited as it contradicts with her being first seed

[twin dragon]

Shamans clearly state they are

i assume every single one of them

[whole holly]

i mean i would assume Radiance is as strong as Unn, White Lady and Nightmare Heart together but they are all higher beings

[twin dragon]

please

no powerscaling

[whole holly]

only one is stated to be sacred and that's nyleth

[twin dragon]

source?

[near thistle]

Higher being isn’t about power. Technically, all the vessels are higher beings, yet most of them died so easily.

[twin dragon]

a descendant of a hb isn't a hb iirc

[whole holly]

Snail Shamans: "We'd heard the Citadel once made grudging accord with that creature, sent their servants in reverence, even built a shrine up there somewhere."
Shrine Guardian Seth: "I am charged forever to guard the sacred shrine beyond. Any who wish to pass must cross their weapon with my own."

[twin dragon]

Well yeah a creature can have reverence

doesn't mean they're a hb

[whole holly]

Higher Being status is mostly above caste, with ones with magical powers being able to easily attain that caste tbh

[near thistle]

We don’t truly know that. Besides, the Knight literally starts the game reading signs meant for Higher Beings alone that tell them how to focus soul, implying that is a thing only HBs can do.

[twin dragon]

Don't disagree with that

but there are several types of focus

that we know almost nothing about

that can be inherited though

[whole holly]

okay i will compromise and say she is Divine and Revered Mortal, who is strong presence in Shellwood

[near thistle]

N- No. Being a HB is being a god. Bugs can’t ascend to godhood unless, potentially, taking a HBs power after killing them.

[twin dragon]

she's not divine

[near thistle]

Honestly, I think all the vessels are HBs as the children of two HBs. Hornet is basically the equivalent of a demi-god. Not a true HB, and thus why she can’t focus soul.

[whole holly]

Knight, Hornet, Parasite all do that presumably, but what i am saying is that ones with magical powers can gain higher caste status which is about recognition not power

[twin dragon]

She can focus soul doe

she inherits the creature-sucking power that pk had

[near thistle]

That seems different from what is directly called focus in HK.

[twin dragon]

It could be mixed with bind

which is probably the case

[near thistle]

That’s bind, which is like an imitation of focus through silk, but not the real thing.

[twin dragon]

Weavers can do it

its smt weaver related

[whole holly]

she is stated to be very essence of Shellwood and Connected with all Shellwood's life, that requires something

[twin dragon]

but having a malleable nature is inherited through pk

[stray grove]

Almost like that’s what the hearts do

[twin dragon]

Yes, strong mortal

not divine

[stray grove]

Karm and Khann are also connected to their environments 🥴

[twin dragon]

divine refers to something god-like

[near thistle]

Yes. I’m just saying, Hornet can’t focus because she is just a demi-HB, not a true HB.

[pale wren]

The Green Prince is too

[whole holly]

not connected, to their living things

[twin dragon]

Yes, but she also has a malleable nature

[whole holly]

her strengths is metaphysical while others hearts are mostly physical though, regardless of if she is mortal

[near thistle]

How about… She’s literally shellwood? She’s a plant, the whole place is one large plant. Her.

[pale wren]

She may not be able to focus, but she can read the god-exclusive tablets in the abyss

[twin dragon]

which mortals don't have

as stated by eva

[whole holly]

she isn't only connected to plants though, all living things including bugs

[pale wren]

At least I think they are

[north violet]

um can i ask if how did hornet lose all her silk skills in sk cuz in hk she had her silk skills sry if its a stupid question

[near thistle]

Those are ancient tablets I think, not HB ones.

[whole holly]

Rune Cage citadel captured her in

[twin dragon]

i'd assume it was the ass kicking and the rune

[pale wren]

Hang on

[north violet]

oh ok

[near thistle]

Either way, that could be because she is a demi-HB. She has some HB traits, but she’s not a full one.

[twin dragon]

The vessels aren't either

they're also partly void

[near thistle]

Hence why she’s mistaken as a child despite being multiple lifetimes old.

[twin dragon]

And becoming a hb could be an artificial proccess for all we know

[near thistle]

How do we know that?

[twin dragon]

TK isn't called a hb till it gets the vh

iirc

[pale wren]

I say that because these look awfully similar.

[near thistle]

Literally the start of the game. Focusing is a HB power. The Knight can focus.

They can read HB tablets meant only for HBs.

[twin dragon]

That is an identity related topic tbf

[twin dragon]

So can hornet

the abyss tablets are awfully similar

Both tk and hornet inherited focus

from the pk

[near thistle]

Yeah, but they don’t directly say that those tablets are for HBs alone.

[twin dragon]

because fuck i know what white lady is capable of

[twin dragon]

sooo???

[near thistle]

Hornet does a bind, not focus. Bind is a weaver ability similar to focus.

[twin dragon]

But her being able to bind others to make an imprint upon her soul is a special quality

[pale wren]

That's true but at the very least they're definatly written by HBs "We higher who see you seeking"

[twin dragon]

This is not referring to hbs most likely

[pale wren]

you think?

[twin dragon]

as the AC weren't hbs

and the word "higher" has been used in the context of intelligence

the intelligent bugs, seeking the cleanse of the void

[pale wren]

ah okay I see your point

[twin dragon]

such as the steel seer zii dialogue

[pale wren]

"Erase our fear,
Eliminate our desire,
To suffer no more,
Void, cleanse us."

[pale wren]

Her referring to hornet as "bug... higher"?

But also

"Recall, the fate of those who defy... Even you higher... Especially you higher..."

[near thistle]

Again. I’m not saying Hornet didn’t inherit some HB traits. I’m just saying that it seems only full HBs can focus, which she cannot, but TK can.

[stray fog]

The soul sanctum bugs might have been able to focus

They say something about wanting a pure focus

So I think they had an impure focus

• shamans might be able to focus too

The whispering root dialogue in the ancestral mound says "spiral focus"

Its ambiguous what it means, but I think its about the shamans (because snails have spiral shaped shells)

[near thistle]

I think those might be like binding for weavers. They replicate and mimic a HB’s focus, but might not be the true thing. That or maybe an HB can imbue focus-like powers onto their followers, like GMS with the weavers. We don’t know the origins of the shamans, but they are similar to weavers as a species that seemingly can innately manipulate soul.

The scholars are self taught, and thus why they can’t replicate a focus and are left with an impure version.

[stray fog]

Even if its impure, they have a focus without any higher being involvement

• we don't see any higher beings focusing

[twin dragon]

though also "pale it"

[twin dragon]

Gms probably has her own variation of bind

[pliant crag]

Hornet produces silk from her own soul, not others'

[twin dragon]

I meant the bind

and while she can produce silk herself, she can also harvest it from other beings

Which iirc is a higher being thing

[uneven plaza]

Yall think dlc will have more lore abt weavers? I really love the lore of weavers and want to know more 👍👍

[whole holly]

sure they might add something, submarine cut content seems to be weaver design

[uneven plaza]

[whole holly]

i wish we got analogous lore about Mothkin, Mosskin, Shamans, Grimmkin

[uneven plaza]

I saw something about that and thought the same thing

[uneven plaza]

YES BRO

[near thistle]

Maybe. There seems to be a large focus on lifeblood though.

[uneven plaza]

I hope and pray there will be more weaver stuff 🙏

[azure shard]

Dlc is probably gona be take place at a dream locatione of that place where every where have that red rocks

because it was aquatic at dream of Kahn

[uneven plaza]

Or hear me out: UNDERWATER PHARLID which means….. NEW BREED (is that what it’s called?) OF WEAVER!!!!!!!

[edgy nebula]

i dont think we ever see red rocks in the trailer

[uneven plaza]

I know, I know, I have the best ideas 🥹✌️

[azure shard]

that red rock place used to be aquatic

[uneven plaza]

[edgy nebula]

yes but it's heavily implied we're going to a second aquatic place

[azure shard]

oh

[uneven plaza]

Mabye it will take place by weavenest cindril, because it’s at the very edge of pharloom and could be an opening for a water area?

[heavy gyro]

It will be near weavenest murglin

[uneven plaza]

How do you know? (Not in a rude way, I’m just curious)

Is it cuz that’s near the most water? Specifically the bile verity of water?

[whole holly]

Pharloom Bay is cut area that was near Bilewater and it also has clear water, so does putrified ducts, lot of people think that it will be on East side of Pharloom near bilewater

[uneven plaza]

Oh that’s actually a good point

[whole holly]

Sea of Sorrows will be expanding on cut content and QoL updates

hey i wish Eva had reaction to Muckmaggots, Wispfire Lantern since it burns silk and some unique stuff that might make her give information about said effects

Father of the Flame, Grand Mother Silk seem to have opposite themes, kind of how Abyss Creature and Radiance have opposing themes

[twin dragon]

Eh

dont think so

they arent opposites at all

just because one element can counteract the other

[whole holly]

what do you guys think about this

[whole holly]

Father of the Flame and Grand Mother Silk, plus Ritual wards off haunting, Wisp Thicket seems to be unaffected, even in Act 3, if Snare Was teleporting to Father of the Flame Wisps could have burned her alive tbh

[edgy nebula]

silk is sometimes resistant to fire, sometimes not

i dont think gms would be burnt

[near thistle]

I think the Citadel just directly drained the water. Their actions against the environment seem to reflect our own, i.e. dumping stuff into the wild causing pollution, invasive species, disturbing the rock and soil, and over harvesting.

[edgy nebula]

i personally think karak fell before the golden citadel

[pale wren]

Oh finally I can get away from sk discussion

[whole holly]

Wisps seem to be created from Silk burning, specifically Silk sourced from Haunting

[edgy nebula]

we see in the whiteward bodies are cremated and the silk from their bodies is secured after

[whole holly]

they likely Eroded things since Blasted Steps have Wind and Sand that Shaman's said resulted in Karak's end

[near thistle]

No. There is an enemy that cuts the silk first, then burns them.

[pale wren]

I've seen someone point out that the spell 'flickering flame' might have something to do with it

And I mean the burning bugs do burn pilgrims

[whole holly]

but burning bodies and burning silk to create wisps may be entirely separate processes

[pale wren]

I looked at it a little more and it really does look like that's the spell they're using

"Flickering Flame
Five masks swirled soul, brought and broiled.
Four stones rage-baked, crushed powder coarse.
Three shells fresh from pilgrims fallen, to contain and age. "

[whole holly]

yeah, and it is in bags that are in Wisp Thicket they have both sprites and Ashes, Wisp Thicket connects to Underworks where workers are saying that they are finally free, Flicketing Flame spell wants Ash from burning pilgrims

[edgy nebula]

if you burn the bodies and the silk stays, that implies silk is fireproof

[near thistle]

Again, I’m pretty sure they snip the silk first.

[whole holly]

or implies that method is tuned in way to extract silk

[pale wren]

I'm not so sure about "five masks swirled soul" other than maybe being a unit of measurement

[edgy nebula]

"Devout has succumbed during Silk suture. Refuses to revive. Sin committed. Permit no rites.

Husk marked for cremation. Retrieve dregs."

if you were to retrieve dregs before, i feel like itd be mentioned before cremation

[stray fog]

Where is this from?

[whole holly]

yeah, there is silk snipping machine and cremation oven separately

[near thistle]

It’s marked for cremation. This literally says retrieve the dregs first.

[edgy nebula]

prolly not

[whole holly]

it might mean Husk marked for cremation later. Retrieve dregs now.

[pale wren]

Ah! gimme a chance to explain

[edgy nebula]

mmm, i suppose that's true

[pale wren]

this is from the lore tablet in the snail shaman temple

[whole holly]

it is silk extraction machine and cremation furnace are separate

[edgy nebula]

i still dont really think gms would be able to be killed by father of the flame though

[near thistle]

The wisp thicket, whether intentional or not, was protected from the haunting by their flames.

[pale wren]

"Four stones rage-baked, crushed powder course" sounds like the stuff you find above yarnabys hut and "Three shells fresh from pilgrims fallen, to contain and age." might be what they were doing with those sacks

[whole holly]

She consists of Silk though, Wispfire explicitly burns it

[edgy nebula]

it's possible, but flickering flames is a shaman spell

[whole holly]

there is sprite of pilgrim bodies

[near thistle]

Yeah… That’s like saying you can kill the god of fire with a water hose.

[edgy nebula]

yes but i dont think 5 wispfire lanterns could just solo gms

if that was the case if hornet brought wispfire lantern to the gms fight she'd be gone in 5 seconds

[whole holly]

god made of fire can be killed by water hose

[pale wren]

Shaman spells can be stolen

[whole holly]

i guess then it is Scale question

[twin dragon]

It wouldnt even slightly affect gms lmao

gms isnt flammable

[stray fog]

Five masks might mean that its the soul of 5 people in total

[near thistle]

The flame may protect from individual silk strands, but probably not the main body. Plus, GMS is not ALL silk.

[pale wren]

But there's no evidence that they did that, Just a theory based on someone elses observation!

[whole holly]

Wisp canonically burns silk, GMS is made of

[near thistle]

Nope.

[whole holly]

she mostly is, except legs and face

[near thistle]

She’s covered in it.

[twin dragon]

She's not all silk, the strands are also mostly soul

[stray fog]

Would a lantern kill an elephant?

[edgy nebula]

we have nothing to indicate they did though, and we dont see anything about soul in wisp thicket either

[stray fog]

Elephants are probably flammable

[whole holly]

yes, in Weaver Queen Ending she unravels as Silk

[pale wren]

Eh true, I like it though

[edgy nebula]

fair

[whole holly]

yeah, that's the strands that cause haunting

[whole holly]

Yes

[near thistle]

Besides, I’m sure the individual strands of silk are weaker alone and far away from GMS. Completely fresh and in high groupings? Probably not.

[edgy nebula]

i do wish we got more on wisp thicket, it being a pretty clear reference to cultist behavior in the context of silksong's themes of religion is really cool

[stray fog]

Void destroys soul (and silk), but gms keeps piling up more silk in her cocoon to survive

She could do the same against fire

[whole holly]

it is scale question sure, but Wisp Fire can be scaled up to have more Wisp Flame, besides Wisp is basically living flame

[pale wren]

The wispfire lantern does burn hornet's silk, and silk is linked to or I'm pretty sure made of soul

[near thistle]

In the ||Lost Lace|| fight, we see that her body is all black. She’s just covered in silk.

[whole holly]

if Wisp fire did the same Haunting would still exist in Thicket just covered in Flames then

[edgy nebula]

theyre burning less amounts of silk

a single strand of silk is easier to burn than the world's largest yarn ball

[whole holly]

when she gives us last of her silk she dissipates into Silk

[twin dragon]

That's soul mostly, she can weave it into silk

[stray fog]

Gms wouldn't keep making new threads to haunt some random people, as we see in bellhart that she didn't re-haunt the citizens. She kept making silk in act 3 to save her daughter

[whole holly]

but both are flammable and flame spreads

[twin dragon]

Its not flammable

[pale wren]

Phantom's made of silk and they have black parts of their body

[whole holly]

Wisp is created from burning silk

[twin dragon]

Silk is soul yes

[whole holly]

that's Phantom being old

[twin dragon]

that lifeforce goes into creating the wisp

[stray fog]

I thought that was voided silk (just like the black threads everywhere)

[pale wren]

Just saying you know how the black body arguement goes

Okay everyone's quiet wtf happened

[edgy nebula]

people discuss for like 30 minutes and then leave for 2 hours because we've exhausted all content for the game

[whole holly]

Wisp doesn't only burn Silk, bugs are burned that also contain soul, Wisp is Flamed Soul

[whole holly]

that's true

[pale wren]

Just a bit sudden is all

[whole holly]

that can be fully burned into Wisps, since her Silk would create more wisps

[pale wren]

Also I have a lotta shit I think about, so maybe im the outlier

[whole holly]

it is weird that all game content is already discussed and silksong lore is less vague

[pale wren]

Silksong lore is a lot less vaugue I think that's just TC settling into their writing more

[whole holly]

there are less lore videos, and most of lore videos about silksong are niche like , Plasmium, Eva, Father of the Flame, Old Hearts, because GMS and Weaver as well as Citadel is more established and their story is told

[edgy nebula]

no it wouldnt

oops

[young dune]

<@&283547423706447872>

[whole holly]

yes it would, Wisp burns existing silk and creates more silk

[edgy nebula]

<@&283547423706447872>

[edgy nebula]

wisps burning silk on contact wouldnt create more wisps, they only burn silk to be created

[whole holly]

Wispfire Lantern does that

[pale wren]

I mean I like talking about niche stuff

[edgy nebula]

it burns hornet's silk, it doesnt burn the enemies silk and create more wisps

[whole holly]

yeah, we all do

[whole holly]

that's because it doesn't really come in contact with enemies, when Wisps hit enemies they can shrug it off because small scale and gameplay reasons

[pale wren]

Going with the shaman spell theory maybe 'Flickering flame' is to make the lanterns themselves?

Not the wisps

[stray fog]

It sounds like its more about the flame

Because of its name

[pale wren]

yeah but the lanterns have a seemingly permenent flame within them

Maybe they draw in soul from their surroundings to feed the flame

[twin dragon]

could be from their bearers

[pale wren]

I was refrencing the ones hanging everywhere, but that tracks as well

[ocean crown]

I believe since gms keeps trying to haunt them a lot of silk reaches it’s way there and silk is a form of soul

We know silk falls down there aswell because greymoor bugs are task with catching falling silk

[pale wren]

Are the burning bugs haunted?

[ocean crown]

No they burn the silk into the flame

[pale wren]

The falling silk theory is credible

[ocean crown]

We know this aswell bc the blue tool from them turns your silk into flame

This is also why I think the flames are alive in a way

[edgy nebula]

i wouldnt be surprised if the mix of silk into flame turns it into some sort of silkfly-like creature

[pale wren]

Naw I was just curious, them being haunted doesn't make them burning silk impossible

[edgy nebula]

lowkey does the burning bugs not being haunted mean that they dont drink

[ocean crown]

Wdym

[edgy nebula]

In the air. The water. Everywhere.
Inside their shells. Twisted inside. Guts.
Tightest around heart. Pulsing rhythm.
Sick. Alive. Dead?
Something worse.
Deeper. Must look deeper.

silk is everywhere

[pale wren]

Oh hey here's where people got the conception of silk not being flammable

Mortician needolin dialougue: "Holy, wonder... Preserved through flame...
Even these dregs...
Let nothing be wasted..."

[ocean crown]

I believe since they can burn silk consumption of silk wouldn’t do much. They are mages and can turn the silk into flame

[pale wren]

Of course this directly contradicts hornet's silk being burned for wispfire lantern, buuut she's probably just willingly letting it do that

[edgy nebula]

the wisps are also made of a unique sort of fire which is cool

[ocean crown]

I feel like the flames from the cult are quite different from normal flame saying it appears out of nowhere just turning the silk jnto flame

[edgy nebula]

yeah the fire they used is called wispfire

[pale wren]

Ohhhh, wait yeah you're right! it would make much more sense that they're not literally burning silk but rather using it to cast spells

[ocean crown]

Yea which happens to be fire

[pale wren]

yeah, but they're not actually setting the silk on fire

Just casting spells with the soul silk is made of

[ocean crown]

Yup!

[pale wren]

Yayyyy!!!

[edgy nebula]

how so

[pale wren]

Y'know... with flickering flame

I know you don't believe that theory but I'm awful attached to it

[low oracle]

Maybe it is imlied that, while still technically haunted, the firefly bugs could regain their thoughts by burning the silk with a special flame. Hence they have needolin dialogue, (+strings) yet aren't lost to the haunting. That also explains "normal" bugs to be capable of using fire-like magic. It's a symbiotic relationship between the wisps and the burning bugs.
Their totem (FotF) was obviously a symbol of their worship and gratitude for the wisps.

If you don't like reading too much: The wisps don't cause/are made of regular fire, but one that can burn silk and keep the haunting at bay. Hence the wisps and the burning bugs are in a symbiotic relationship, since the wisps require silk to burn, and the burning bugs are somewhat freed from the haunting.

[ocean crown]

Mages exist in this world we know this

[edgy nebula]

yes but why would they not be directly burning silk

[pale wren]

Cause silk don't burn

[ocean crown]

Bc silk can’t traditionally be burnt w normal flame

[pale wren]

"Holy, wonder... Preserved through flame...
Even these dregs...
Let nothing be wasted..."

[ocean crown]

As silk is a form of soul not like just the silk in our world

[pale wren]

Yeah, what they said

[edgy nebula]

yeah, but wisps arent made of normal flame, theyre made of wispfire

[low oracle]

What about my answer and conclusion?

[edgy nebula]

magic flame which can probably burn silk

[pale wren]

Oh yeah, sorry I'm tryna talk to two people at once

[twin dragon]

where does wispfire come from

[low oracle]

It's okay. I think I might have answered the question, and would also like the others involved in the discussion to read it.

[edgy nebula]

we dont know

[ocean crown]

Which is why they aren’t haunted or at least lost to it. Cause they use that haunting silk as catalyst for their flame

[twin dragon]

I'd say its soul taken the shape of fire

but idk

[pale wren]

That's dope and outta nowhere, it fits well though!

[edgy nebula]

so they DO burn silk

[low oracle]

Wispfire is just little fireflies. Hilarious Team Cherry, great joke.

[twin dragon]

They spawn from these pots

which i assume hold remains

[ocean crown]

Yes but not jn a traditional way is what I’m saying

[twin dragon]

or silk

[pale wren]

OH FIREFLIES FUCKING HELL

[twin dragon]

they take silk from you after spawning after all

we got soul fire before godhome

[pale wren]

I think what we're trying to imply is that wispfire is made from silk like vengeful spirit is made from soul

@ocean crown Is that right?

[edgy nebula]

i just dont think it is

[twin dragon]

I don't see anything that would say otherwise

[ocean crown]

Yup

[ocean crown]

We see that it is w the lantern tool burning OUR silk and making it into the wispfire

[pale wren]

Okay, I don't think I've been listening to your explination. how do you think wisps are made?

[edgy nebula]

simply burning silk via wispfire

[ocean crown]

Which is a magical fire

[edgy nebula]

i dont think using silk as fuel and turning it into magic fire makes wispfire made of silk

[low oracle]

@edgy nebula @twin dragon Here is my actual answer to the question by the way.

[ocean crown]

Well that’s how hornet makes it and there’s nothing stating that it isn’t this

[edgy nebula]

is there anything stating that it is this

[pale wren]

Other than a bunch of convenient connections, I don't think so

[ocean crown]

Yea the fact silk has to be used up to spawn a wispfire

[edgy nebula]

wood has to be used to make fire, is fire made of wood

[pale wren]

No?? Sorry I didn't think I was implying that the wisps are made of silk

[ocean crown]

I don’t thinks it’s wood anymore yea just like the wispfire isn’t silk anymore

[twin dragon]

its gotta be soul

[edgy nebula]

silk is just a singular flammable material that burning bugs use to fuel their wispfire i feel, they literally kill themselves and turn into 3 wisps after you defeat fotf

[low oracle]

No because you can set corpses on fire.

[pale wren]

But silk doesn't traditionally burn like wood

[whole holly]

to be honest Flickering Flame might be Groal's spell, somewhere it is referred to as Pale Flame, but it could also be anguished aura so who knows

[pale wren]

It doesn't burn at all?

[edgy nebula]

"Devout has succumbed during Silk suture. Refuses to revive. Sin committed. Permit no rites.

Husk marked for cremation. Retrieve dregs."

this contradicts mortician needolin

[pale wren]

How?

[edgy nebula]

the husk is marked for cremation, theyre schedulded to retrieve the dregs from inside the body before theyre cremated

[ocean crown]

I always thought that was saying they were retrieving the dregs after burning

[pale wren]

I thought cremation was the method used to retrieve the dregs

[ocean crown]

I also feel you can just burn soul

[edgy nebula]

we see shamans use what is probably flickering flame, it looks like normal fire, not like soul

[edgy nebula]

if it was itd probably say "Husk cremated. Retrieve dregs." instead

[twin dragon]

This implies that wisps are their own thing, and the burning bugs search communion to keep the haunting at bay

[whole holly]

yes Wisp are alive, they have life

[pale wren]

oh

[twin dragon]

They kinda coexist

[pale wren]

So they weren't created by the Burning bugs at all

Dyaces had the right idea all along

[whole holly]

in what context, Red Memory spell?

[edgy nebula]

when we first enter the chapel of the shaman, the shamans magically light candles

for hype moments and aura

[whole holly]

that also happens in other chapels, though

[ocean crown]

[edgy nebula]

does it?

[whole holly]

yes.....

[twin dragon]

We also see the background of the area lighten up

[feral isle]

i've a question about lord mergwin, he talks about the grand gourmand's amazing taste in cuisine, yet when i fed him the meal and played the needolin, his thoughts are like those of a greedy baby. why does lord mergwin care for the gourmand's insight when it is just "eat/meat/good/etc."

[whole holly]

Short-lived sprite born of flickering flame. that's also name of shaman spell, guys

[twin dragon]

old dumb fart

[low oracle]

Burning Bugs Discussion:
The burning bugs are haunted, which can be seen when playing the needolin. However they seem quite sound of mind, at least when looking past their cultist activities. So how do they regain control, even while obviously haunted?

Firstly, the Wisps aren't normal fire. Regular fire doesn't live and make the choice to fight. Morticians definitely use normal furnaces, so there is a clear difference.

Secondly, why do the wisps and the burning bugs act peaceful towards one another? It seems to be a symbiotic relationship, each side giving and gaining. The wisps rely on something to burn, in this case basically unlimited silk. The silk seeks out the burning bugs, which are free of the haunting by the silk being burned. They are technically haunted, and the silken strings seek them out. However the wisps smother the silk before it can restrain the burning bugs will.

The burning bugs likely orginated from regular bugs (non-fanatics) that found the wisp become their "solution" to the haunting.

All in all, Team Cherry just made a ridicoulusly high-effort firefly joke.

[whole holly]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Wisp

[edgy nebula]

looking at it now, no, they dont

theyre just lit at all times

the shaman chapel is unique in the way that the shamans light them

[twin dragon]

iirc there aren't any strings attached whenever you play the needolin and they sing

[edgy nebula]

this isnt really the best evidence though

[low oracle]

I saw screenshots were they had strings. Was it an error that has been patched?

[twin dragon]

source?

[edgy nebula]

flickering flame has clear ingredients, wisps are just made from burning silk

[whole holly]

same name is most likely intentional and spell requirement matches up as well

[twin dragon]

wisps are their own thing

[low oracle]

Good memory. But I'll look it up.

[twin dragon]

they dont spawn from burning silk iirc

[edgy nebula]

notably "flickering flame" isnt capitalized

[twin dragon]

I mean it could

nothing contradicting that

[pale wren]

@edgy nebula I think were both too stubborn to ever admit the other's right

[whole holly]

Spell can be started from Ingredients since soul is requirement and Flickering Flame is also maintained by Bugs Shell(inside lantern), whatever they have in those bags which may be ground stones and Swirled Soul/Silk

[edgy nebula]

burning bugs create new wisps, presumably by burning silk as seen by wispfire lantern, it cna be assumed that is what is used to fuel them

[feral isle]

i agree, but it makes me wonder if the gourmand was always like this, or if so, how was mergwin convinced of the gourmand's superior palate when he was younger (mergwin says he could have done the quest himself before he gopt old, so he must have been serving the gourmand for quite a time)

[pale wren]

Fucken unmovable object vs unmovable object

[edgy nebula]

they have pilgrim parts in the bags, yes, but itd probably be to get more silk

[twin dragon]

They seemingly come from smt called wispfire aswell

[twin dragon]

Those bags are also filled with ash

[whole holly]

no they guide them, Father of the Flame creates them

[edgy nebula]

true yeah, i think you had solid points, i might agree with you, what were the main points again?

[twin dragon]

Could be some exotic conductor's pet

idk

[whole holly]

Ash could be ground stones, Silk is swirled soul, and pilgims shells are the recipes are satisfied

[edgy nebula]

no it doesnt, they outright kill themselves to turn themselves into wisps afther father of the flame is defeated, and burning bugs made father of the flame anyway

[low oracle]

That is all I have currently. You see clear strings though, maybe an error?

@twin dragon

[pale wren]

My point came from the seemingly coincidental similarities between Flickering flame as detailed in the shamen chapel, and the lanterns and wisps in wisp thicket. I was gave the theory that the burning bugs had stolen a shaman spell like Groal or Soul master have done.

[feral isle]

that would definitely explain mergwin's reverence despite the gourmand's lack of complex thinking, although, does mergwin talk about salvation liek the other pilgrims ? it seems as though the gourmand is his master, and he doesn't care much for the citadel's religious fervour

[whole holly]

we don't know what/who made Father of the Flame spell but i know that Flickering Flame/Wisp are analogous since they have same requirements

[edgy nebula]

no they dont

[whole holly]

they feed themselves to Flickering FLame/Wisp Spell

[twin dragon]

What about needolin?

[pale wren]

I thought the wisps were spells like silk spear or vengeful spirit just taking on a different end form. What were your points? @edgy nebula

[whole holly]

yes they do shells and ashes/crushed stone and silk/swirled soul ingredients are all common

[twin dragon]

Judging by the fact that wisps are living things

[edgy nebula]

we know the burning bugs made father of the flame, you literally see a burning bug at the center of it, and burning bugs use purely silk as fuel for wisps

[whole holly]

Spells are though

[twin dragon]

i'd say they're basically the manifestation of soul in the shape of fire

[edgy nebula]

wisp NDD is just them talking about burning and fire stuff iirc

[twin dragon]

yeah but they think nevertheless

[edgy nebula]

Call us... grimm troupe confirmed!?!?!?! /j

[whole holly]

nope, wrong we don't have confirmation of who exactly made Father of the Flame and burning bug at center is sacrificed bug, they could have stolen spell from Shaman, EVERYTHING matches up and you are ignoring that i debunked your argument

[edgy nebula]

my main points were little evidence and everything being able to be explained by something else

[whole holly]

yeah, but Spells are also Soul Constructs, they are alive in their own way

we don't see how Father of the Flame was built

[pale wren]

I see, occam's razor, ey? we just have too different of theorycrafting techniques and were too stubborn to come to an agreement.

It was exciting talking to you either way! I think I'm bout to hop off, I've been talking here for like 2 hours

Cheers o7

[whole holly]

this lacks evidence

[edgy nebula]

built and worshipped, and itd be weird for these cultists to be using shaman spells, if it was intended by tc itd probably be mentioned or implied somewhere

[maiden meteor]

I mean HK world has plenty of magic stuff that just is

like Crystals in Crystal Peak

[edgy nebula]

i think hornet straight up using a wispfire lantern and it using her silk for fuel is great evidence

[whole holly]

yea, they are mentioned by common name, "Flickering Flame", plus you have no counterargument so Alder’s Razor applies to you arguments

[edgy nebula]

yeah probably, many arguments are like that here

[edgy nebula]

you too dawg, have a good day

[edgy nebula]

my counterargument is it being heavily unlikely, i cant strictly confirm it but you cant either

[maiden meteor]

Maybe Father was initially built as sacrificial altar and then somehow gained real power

[edgy nebula]

also flickering flame isnt capitalized and at that time in the game hornet wouldnt know of the spell

[whole holly]

Wispfire lanterns already has enough of other ingredients most likely and that is most likely gameplay reason

[whole holly]

still can be intentional writing

[edgy nebula]

Five masks swirled soul, brought and broiled.
Four stones rage-baked, crushed powder coarse.
Three shells fresh from pilgrims fallen, to contain and age.

explain how random cultists would learn this

through sheer luck seems very unlikely

youd also think theyd write out the recipe somewhere if they relied on it so much

[whole holly]

i have substantially connected it though, Flickering Flame = Wisp
Five masks swirled soul, brought and broiled. = Silk from Haunting
Four stones rage-baked, crushed powder coarse. = Ash in wisp thicket bags
Three shells fresh from pilgrims fallen, to contain and age. =pilgrims in bags of wisp thicket

[edgy nebula]

i dont think so

[maiden meteor]

eh, seems a bit stretchy to me ngl

[edgy nebula]

wisps are confirmed to have existed before burning bugs anyway

[whole holly]

Shaman's invented spell and Burning Bugs perpetuate it

[whole holly]

that can be explained by fact that it is shaman spell stolen by burning bugs

[edgy nebula]

but the wisps were there pre-burning bugs

how would they even know the recipe to them

[whole holly]

maybe because spell was used before them and burning bugs fed them ingredients, silk, shell and crushed stone

[whole holly]

once again, Alder’s Razor

[edgy nebula]

why would shamans just put wisps in lanterns at the top of a farmland that’s stupid

[low oracle]

Correction:
Silk is soul, spun into a thread.
Soul is basically life energy.
Void is basically antilife-matter that can be imprinted with a "thing". That can be basically anything; A loyal Knight (SERVE), A Vessel, and even something like the Collector (we don't know how intentional they were though).

Hope this helps.

[whole holly]

they do similar things often, Bell Hermit considers everyone slave to haunting, Burning Bugs resist the haunting, Bell Hermit creates spell that nullifies effects, Burning bugs find out in fact about them is underwork bugs needolin suggesting that they are free from haunting, and Wisp/Flickering Flame spell is able to deter it

[whole holly]

events happen there is no reason why shamans wouldn't cast spells to resist haunting of bugs, they literally work against GMS in-game

[low oracle]

I didn't find anything. Maybe it's this effect (idk what's it called) where you believe to have seen something very clearly. But the silken particle effects also support my words, even if to a lesser degree.

[low oracle]

So they don't get spotted and killed. They can't cast the spells on an entire army.

[whole holly]

how is this helpful, i know Silk is soul spun from GMS, but Swirling and Spinning are similar enough things to make connection plausible

[whole holly]

they are always in hideouts what makes you think they didn't account for that when Wisp flame ritual matches flickering flame spell ingredients, closely enough

[low oracle]

How did Shamans even become relevant? The have zero connections, not even any slight resemblances. Maybe some words, but that is easily taken out of context for anything. Lace and Shakra aren't sisters because they both say something like "the".

[whole holly]

Alder’s Razor

[low oracle]

Soul is always swirling. Silk isn't always spinning. Spinning is the process of creating the silk.

[whole holly]

Flickering Flame tablet matches Wispflame ritual down to ingredients they require

[edgy nebula]

it doesnt though

[whole holly]

regardless Silk inherits all properties of Soul

[edgy nebula]

all we see are burnt pilgrim parts because they probably kill pilgrims using wisps to get more silk

[low oracle]

Not necessarily. It definitely isn't exactly the same. Hornet probably can't use soul spells to the same capabilities of using silk skills.

[low oracle]

Or to get more flammable material in general. A pilgrim could definitely make for some flame.

[low oracle]

Sorry, what do you mean?

[edgy nebula]

this could be true but there’s also bamboo everywhere in wisp thicket

[whole holly]

Silk inherits all properties of Soul i don't know why it can't be brought and broiled, and why bag with black particles in it can't be crushed rock

[whole holly]

that's because of Hornet's nature, Silk can do everything Soul can do, Silk Skills are functionally same as Soul Spells

[low oracle]

They do rituals, what lame cultist would use bamboo? Besides that, the silk in the pilgrims probably also matters.

[edgy nebula]

true bamboo is for loser nerds

[whole holly]

If something cannot be proven false, then it is meaningless to argue for it.

[whole holly]

that is worse explanation than them using spell for ritual

[low oracle]

Functionally, Soul Master and Radiance both have the same orb attack. That does not mean we should put them beside each other, when they're so clearly different.

[whole holly]

that's not relevant to my point

[low oracle]

Or maybe the Wisps are just naturally occuring in the wisp thicket? The ritual involves burning shit down, there isn't really much more to it. Fire needs something to burn, otherwise it dies out. That is why the wisps need flammable material.

[low oracle]

I'm literally asking what Alder's Razor is.

[whole holly]

Flickering Flame = Wisp (Hunter's Journal description)
Five masks swirled soul, brought and broiled. = Silk from Haunting (Silk generates wisp when hornet equips lanterns so it has to be close enough)
Four stones rage-baked, crushed powder coarse. = Ash in wisp thicket bags (it matches too closely)
Three shells fresh from pilgrims fallen, to contain and age. =pilgrims in bags of wisp thicket

[whole holly]

Alder's Razor is principle that argues that If something cannot be proven false, then it is meaningless to argue for it.

[low oracle]

Oh, alright makes much more sense. Thanks.

[whole holly]

literally everything matches, Silk inherits all the properties of Soul, everything Soul can do so can Silk, Silk is literally made from it and is Soul derived

[twin dragon]

Wisps are stated to be native to the thicket

[low oracle]

To me this seems coincidence:

Shamans use pilgrims to extract their soul and use it. At least it seems they gain both souls and spells from their recipes.

Burning Bugs on the other hand just need shit to burn. Hence the countless pilgrims attracted by the citadel are easy prey.
They also resist the haunting, hence a connection can be drawn between the wisps burning the silk from the bugs. Perhaps the pilgrims silk also works as a preferable material to set aflame.

[whole holly]

everything has cause and effect, everything is has cause of why they exist, just because wisps are native doesn't mean that Shaman Spell didn't create it, and Burning Bugs aren't perpetuating it

[whole holly]

1. spells use souls i know 2. "that shit to burn" matches everything detailed in Flickering Flame spells closely 3. resisting haunting is because of soul is ingredient of spell and silk is soul-derivative

That’s it I am right

[low oracle]

Pilgrims have two things inside of them: Soul and Silk. Soul is their life (literally). Silk is injested and inhereted because of the Whiteward.

[low oracle]

If soul and silk are so close, why would it help against the haunting? That seems kind of ironic.

[low oracle]

That's because your theory makes sense. And so does mine. Believe what you want, neither of us are correct or incorrect until proven wrong. Proven by Team Cherry themselves.

[whole holly]

Because spell cost Silk/Soul, when haunting threads reach wisp thicket it is consumed by ritual

[whole holly]

What is your theory?

[twin dragon]

they also have zero correlation to the spell, the only similar ish thing about them is the fact that the journal mentions some sort of "flickering fire"

we don't get any shaman dialogue implying that

[low oracle]

My theory is above. I wrote two texts, saying similar things. @whole holly

[whole holly]

Flickering Flame Wisp theory
Flickering Flame = Wisp (Hunter's Journal description)
Five masks swirled soul, brought and broiled. = Silk from Haunting (Silk generates wisp when hornet equips lanterns so it has to be close enough)
Four stones rage-baked, crushed powder coarse. = Ash in wisp thicket bags (it matches too closely)
Three shells fresh from pilgrims fallen, to contain and age. =pilgrims in bags of wisp thicket

[low oracle]

And this.

[twin dragon]

Pale king = gms because pale monarch type shit

[rancid river]

Congrats on her transition 🎉

[whole holly]

Not really , this is wrong analogy and it doesn’t even apply

[low oracle]

What does this even refer to?

[whole holly]

Our theories aren’t contradictory, Wisps ward off haunting

[twin dragon]

They share a single term

[whole holly]

I clearly have irrefutable evidence though

[twin dragon]

its not irrefutable

[whole holly]

Then refute it

[twin dragon]

there's literally no connection to the shamans

[low oracle]

Which is? Pale Monarch? I'm asking how this is relevant to our discussion.

[twin dragon]

you can literally refute it through basic context

[twin dragon]

Yeah

[whole holly]

Except description of Flickering Flame spell and Wisp ritual

[twin dragon]

Thing is suspiciously similar to thing, therefore thing is connected to thing

[whole holly]

Then do it

[edgy nebula]

it wouldnt, as shown with groal, who is the only haunted stilkin

likely due to his soul

[low oracle]

There is no basic context in Hollow Knight. Even Herrah's behind can bring forth an argument discussing lore deeply.

[twin dragon]

Hey

did you play the game

[whole holly]

They aren’t just similar , ritual and spell require same ingredients

[edgy nebula]

no they dont

[whole holly]

Flickering Flame Wisp theory
Flickering Flame = Wisp (Hunter's Journal description)
Five masks swirled soul, brought and broiled. = Silk from Haunting (Silk generates wisp when hornet equips lanterns so it has to be close enough)
Four stones rage-baked, crushed powder coarse. = Ash in wisp thicket bags (it matches too closely)
Three shells fresh from pilgrims fallen, to contain and age. =pilgrims in bags of wisp thicket

[edgy nebula]

we dont even know if burning bugs perform a ritual

youre just theorizing

the only ritual we know of is worshipping fotf

[whole holly]

Whatever they do does match up with spell

[low oracle]

Yes. We just have different interpretations of how that happens and where the wisp came from. Either way, I believe it unnecessary to endlessly go back and forth with the same sentences. We both have our points.

[edgy nebula]

we dont know “whatever they do” all we know is that they have pilgrim parts strung up, we dont evem know if they use those at all

you dont either, youre assuming

[twin dragon]

wisps is secretly the hollow knight

[whole holly]

They guide wisp they burn bugs they collect black dust

[muted lantern]

Other stillkin are haunted I'm pretty sure, if you needolin them I remember them having the threads

[edgy nebula]

pretty sure they dont

thats just from my memory though

[heavy gyro]

They are

[low oracle]

They do be doing some cult shit though. They have cut parts of pilgrims, and the bone scroll also implies some form of worship.

[muted lantern]

Could you double check? Im not at my PC but I'm pretty sure they are haunted

[edgy nebula]

i can try to find a video really quick

[twin dragon]

Yes, the ritual seems purely out of worship

[whole holly]

Correlation is too high and other explanations on how wisps can to be are weird because we know they can be created, Shaman spell would explain everything and they seem to have everything they need

[twin dragon]

as they don't really create those wisps

it is said they coexisted with the bugs in the thicket

[whole holly]

Worship and burning the pilgrims and keeping their shells

[edgy nebula]

just checked, stilkin are stringless

[twin dragon]

That is their desire

[edgy nebula]

to burn

[twin dragon]

to burn

[edgy nebula]

yeah

[whole holly]

I don’t think their relationship always existed it needs to be explained

[edgy nebula]

theyre evil doomsday cultists

[twin dragon]

However there is noone

[low oracle]

Team Cherry just really wanted to make a firefly joke. End of the discussion, even if their dedication is admirable.

[twin dragon]

hornet says either out of reverence or submission

[whole holly]

Which Flickering Flame Spell matches up with Flickering Flame Wisp theory
Flickering Flame = Wisp (Hunter's Journal description)
Five masks swirled soul, brought and broiled. = Silk from Haunting (Silk generates wisp when hornet equips lanterns so it has to be close enough)
Four stones rage-baked, crushed powder coarse. = Ash in wisp thicket bags (it matches too closely)
Three shells fresh from pilgrims fallen, to contain and age. =pilgrims in bags of wisp thicket

[twin dragon]

No, it doesn't match

[edgy nebula]

the hj says wisps are made of flickering flame which is wrong because theyre made of wispfire anyway

[heavy gyro]

is it act 3?

[whole holly]

I think submission because of occurring silk in Pharloom which wisps feed on

[twin dragon]

The only possible connection there could be between the spell and the "ritual"

[edgy nebula]

i think so? Im not sure, i just got it from a video

[twin dragon]

is the fact that the shamans took inspo from the burning bugs

[whole holly]

Not contradictory

[muted lantern]

Unless they are the same thing.

[heavy gyro]

Act 3 enemies dont have strings iirc

[whole holly]

What makes it impossible to be same?

[twin dragon]

Only haunted enemies get black threaded so yeah

[twin dragon]

The fact that wisps coexisted within the thicket, we can assume for a while

[edgy nebula]

fair enough

i just dont think wisps are the flickering flame spell, youd think we’d get information on it if that were the case

[whole holly]

It doesn’t mean that it didn’t start with shaman spells, they had to be created since we know they can be created and Wispfire Lantern meets every requirement of Flickering Flame spell that hornet acquires

[edgy nebula]

also flickering flame is probably this anyway and it doesnt look like a living creature

[heavy gyro]

https://youtu.be/wL2EHaIfXc8?si=qU2T83AbkPLpdIKO

This video shows stilkin with strings under needolin

[low oracle]

This is getting kind of boring. Can't we find something new to discuss? I can't see where we are getting at here.

[whole holly]

That can happen with others chapels too

[low oracle]

Do the Burning Bugs have strings?

[muted lantern]

We could get more info the future. Also isn't there a sprite for father of the flames corpse? What's he look like, anyway?

[whole holly]

Yeah none have counter arguments I haven’t already debunked

[edgy nebula]

no it doesnt, other chapels are pre-lit

[edgy nebula]

naked crusty old guy let me get him

[whole holly]

Yeah but same occurrence , timing of when it was lit doesn’t matter propably natural part of chapels with presence of soul imprint

[twin dragon]

Shamans don't talk about anything related to that, and presumably they'd never been in the hidden away confines of graymoor

[muted lantern]

The fact that wisps are described as flickering flame makes me believe it's an intentional connection honestly.

[edgy nebula]

here

[twin dragon]

Contextually it wouldn't make much sense

[whole holly]

Not everything has to be outright said to be suggested , by that logic Sharp Shadow may not be void when it obviously is

[edgy nebula]

wait a second, is the burning bug inside father of the flame standing up?

hard to tell but he looks upright

[muted lantern]

Hmm, wonder what kinda bug these guys are supposed to be, 6 limbs is a fairly unique feature they all share (at least for non beast bugs)

[edgy nebula]

i think theyre just miscellaneous insects

[low oracle]

Not very naked actually. Maybe he established the cult by burning himself, hence showing the other bugs a way to free themselves of the haunting.

[twin dragon]

It makes sense to be void, it is connected to the cloak ability, it is found in a suspiciously void lookin area

[edgy nebula]

fire flies is a pretty obvious connection but they dont look like fire flies

[muted lantern]

How so?

[edgy nebula]

i mean, fire flies, burning bugs, same thing but with different words

[low oracle]

Fireflies. It's all a joke. A joke about fireflies making literal fire.

[edgy nebula]

it says it was built and worshipped by the burning bugs in the hj entry

[whole holly]

Same with flickering flame and wisps connected with hunters journal and other things

[edgy nebula]

it was probably a ritual, ascension, or something else

[low oracle]

The totem, not the bug. So what do you think about my speculation?

[twin dragon]

only connected through 2 words and a slight similarity in the recipe

lmao all these bugs want is to get burnt up

[edgy nebula]

if it was built by the burning bugs it could be assumed that the burning bug in the center was simply just one of them who were sacrificed

[twin dragon]

you even see yourself how wisps are created

a burning bug straight up cremates itself

[muted lantern]

Also are the moorbugs in sinners road like lugioli and the roach keepers flies? They seem similar, maybe a different species of fly than the slabflies (maybe carrion flies?) and yarnaby (probably a fruit fly)

[whole holly]

Not slight obvious, only thing debatable is swirled soul silk connections

[whole holly]

That is requirement for spell too

[twin dragon]

swirled soul refers to soul not silk, but they're practically the same

[muted lantern]

Mmm boiled soul

[whole holly]

Flickering Flame Wisp theory
Flickering Flame = Wisp (Hunter's Journal description)
Five masks swirled soul, brought and broiled. = Silk from Haunting (Silk generates wisp when hornet equips lanterns so it has to be close enough)
Four stones rage-baked, crushed powder coarse. = Ash in wisp thicket bags (it matches too closely)
Three shells fresh from pilgrims fallen, to contain and age. =pilgrims in bags of wisp thicket

[whole holly]

Yeah lol

[twin dragon]

mate you're gonna copy and paste that as your only argument

[low oracle]

"Father of the Flame" may be the name of the totem. So perhaps the burning bugs named the totem after the bug who showed the flame to stop the haunting. Hence making them the "father" of the flame.
Wether the wisp was natural or came to be through the Shamans, it makes sense to assume someone introduced the idea of a cult. If the Father of the Flame was the totem, there would be no reason to put some random bug inside.

[whole holly]

Nobody can debunk it and everybody keeps repeating stuff that I already explained

[twin dragon]

If there IS a connection, i'd find it hard to believe shamans would just release wisps and slide their homemade recipe to some bum bugs

so shamans would have to learn it from the rituals of the burning bugs

[muted lantern]

Also is five masks swirled soul implying it soul from bugs masks? Or is it literally referring to the health bar masks as in enough soul to heal five masks?

[edgy nebula]

i feel like burning bugs worshipped the wisps and desired to ascend to godhood by father of the flame

[twin dragon]

issue is, these wisps existed before their worship

[edgy nebula]

they share alot of aspects with real life cults

so itd make sense theyd do really cultish stuff

[whole holly]

They work against GMS they can develop spells regular bugs can’t so yes they released

[low oracle]

"Masks" are sometimes just how faces are described in Hollow Knight. So maybe five pilgrim's faces are used to gather the soul.

[muted lantern]

My guess for the cult is they hate GMS and burn silk to protect themselves, immolating their bodies in wisp fire to purify the trace silk in every bugs shell throughout the kingdom.

[edgy nebula]

the aged burning bug couldve even been their leader

[low oracle]

@edgy nebula Did you see this already?

[edgy nebula]

yeah i saw that

[muted lantern]

Does this imply soul is stored in the mask? It makes sense honestly with masks tie to identity. It makes widow even sadder, if her soul was ripped out essentially.

[edgy nebula]

my theory is different but it’s possible

[twin dragon]

They dont work against gms, they presumably only work on thin strands of silk

[whole holly]

Father of the Flame implies it had source or father or cause, Bug inside it is willing sacrifice most likely

[whole holly]

They do shamans literally help us

[edgy nebula]

every part of a bug’s body contains soul, it’s possible shamans use masks for some other reason, like how people hunt rhinos for their horns for medicinal benefits instead of the whole rhino

[twin dragon]

Burning bugs are stated to learn how to call and guide them, not referred to as cast

[twin dragon]

I meant the wispfire

[muted lantern]

Honestly my guess is the cult learned a spell from the shamans and adapted it into their own thing. The wisp spell isn't flickering flame, but they use flickering flame to create them, by burning silk with it. Hence why the wisps are described as made of it, rather than just being the spell itself.

We know shamans interact with other cultures to make alliances

[whole holly]

It makes sense for shaman to start spell that then bugs to make into totem and worship

[edgy nebula]

i just think theyre unrelated ngl

[twin dragon]

Wisps are stated to share the thicket with them

[edgy nebula]

if they were youd probably get something from carefaker if youre using wispfire lantern

[twin dragon]

implying that they coexisted for some time before the burning bugs started worshipping them

[twin dragon]

how the fuck does it make sense for the "spell" to reach these secluded bugs in the corner of graymoor, plus, aren't spells soul moulds? wisps are literal living things

[whole holly]

That doesn’t debunk it though if it can be created then it had to have been created at some point most likely shamans, I said this before

[muted lantern]

It would kinda make sense if a lot of it concentrated in the mask, no? The gameplay depiction of our life force is always masks. And we always heal them with soul, ik hud isn't canon but I at least think the choice implies some relation.

[edgy nebula]

possibly

[twin dragon]

Except that doesn't make any sense as there could be a natural component of the creation of such wisps

[whole holly]

Spells are soul constructs so are Wisps

[twin dragon]

wisps have thoughts, soul doesn't

[muted lantern]

Well we know shamans went out to teach and make alliances with another secluded culture in bilewater.

[low oracle]

Well, the Weavers have a face mask and a mask mask, which is also organic. HK is confusing I guess. Anyway, it could also just be the specific soul from the head masks or something.
Widow was staked to prevent her binding of silk (creating her own silk) and had her mask removed, so I believe that Weavers probably bind silk using their mask to some capacity.

[twin dragon]

We don't know nor have any mention about wisp thicket doe

[whole holly]

What is plausible natural component pre-haunting?

[edgy nebula]

wait a second, if burning bugs arent haunted and they kill themselves to turn into wisps, that’d be contradictory, cause they have no silk in their body

[muted lantern]

I'm just saying that's a fully possible explanation for why a shaman spell would reach that far.

[low oracle]

Only for them to kill the guy. Kinda reasonably honestly, at least if they were anything like the Shaman at First Shrine/Songclave.

[twin dragon]

soul

[scenic shuttle]

They burn their own body so they cannot be brought back by silk and try to get rid of as much silk as possible

[muted lantern]

Every bug has silk in their body, in trace amounts it permeates the air, the water, everything.

[whole holly]

Wisp flame could be actively burning silk in environment to reduce haunting

[muted lantern]

They just have less because they burn it out of their environment

They burn themselves to get the silk they can't reach

[twin dragon]

Either the bugs soul or wispfire

[low oracle]

I also have something to add to this. Don't forget that the map is 3D, we play only on certain paths. In the background there are many other bridges and other pathways. So Hornet isn't travelling the only available route.

[twin dragon]

we also see what look like ashes in the background

or multitudes of wisps in the distance

[edgy nebula]

they seem to be wisp particles from the multitudes of magic in the thicket

since burning bugs use alot of it

[whole holly]

Wispfire requires creation in first place and Soul wouldn’t make as much sense as they would have not achieved anything and how would they figure out to burn soul in first place who would even teach they originally ?

[edgy nebula]

i mean, for a culture entirely centered around burning, i wouldnt be surprised if they tried burning soul

[twin dragon]

the soul could get caught up within the fire and produce such thing

whenever they either made a sacrificial offering or it happened accidentally

[whole holly]

Shamans make more sense because saying wisps came from regular fire is silly regular fire can’t burn silk since cremation bugs do it to extract silk

[low oracle]

Their Land is entirely centered around silk, so I doubt they'd be as interested in soul as others ( ). And silk could burn from the wispfire, which obviously differentiates from normal flames.

[edgy nebula]

they dont come from normal fire, we know that

[twin dragon]

Yeah

wispfire is it's own thing

[edgy nebula]

but them not coming from normal fire doesnt mean they come from flickering flame

[whole holly]

But your argument suggests it as source

[whole holly]

Well Flickering Flame makes most sense as explanation and is most plausible

None of alternatives make sense as Wispfire wards of haunting which is deliberate, maybe Burning Cult is unknowingly perpetuating spell that was started by shaman and ever since then burning bugs and wisps coexist

[twin dragon]

Apparently they existed before the cult formed

But then again they could be worshipping them

and at one point gain control of those wisps

[edgy nebula]

we really havent much proof

[twin dragon]

we know that they coexisted before being able to control wisps

[edgy nebula]

we have the journal entry and the flickering flame tablet

also this 2-hour long discussion is useless anyway because father of the flame has been defeated and every burning bug is killing themselves

[whole holly]

Which would be explained by snail shaman spell as soul is not effectively used by other bugs to craft spells are constructs other than weavers

[edgy nebula]

but the burning bugs use the spell very efficently, if your theory is the case

[twin dragon]

Nothing explains why they would be there

I'd say the recipe could've been plagiarized from the burning bugs

[whole holly]

They are because they perpetuate it and worship father of the flame

[twin dragon]

at one point the sacrifices they made paid off and they discovered fire

[whole holly]

By burning bugs

[twin dragon]

shamans plagiarize bugs

[whole holly]

Source?

[twin dragon]

there would be no reason for a shaman to go there

give these cavemen fire

dip

have NO signs of ever being there whatsoever

continue with their lives

[whole holly]

My point is that outside weavers no bugs utilize soul effectively other than shaman and bugs with shamans help

[edgy nebula]

if the shamans ever went there caretaker would probably point it out

[twin dragon]

They aren't really masterful with it or anything

[whole holly]

There likely once was

[twin dragon]

they discovered it at one point

[whole holly]

How would it come up

[twin dragon]

and they kept rolling with it

we need more lore on ts

[whole holly]

Well it is not likely since wisps are referred to as flickering flames which is intentional

[whole holly]

Sure burnings bugs themselves are ingredients to spell, there you go

[twin dragon]

so? born out of flickering flame that the shamans had interest in recreating

[twin dragon]

we see they have sacrifices

[digital flare]

Are people seriously believing that the Weavers created the Grand Mother Silk?

[twin dragon]

Who the hell

[digital flare]

Reddit...

[twin dragon]

Adds up

[digital flare]

So, what were you talking about with @whole holly ?

[whole holly]

Flickering Flame Wisp theory
Flickering Flame = Wisp (Hunter's Journal description)
Five masks swirled soul, brought and broiled. = Silk from Haunting (Silk generates wisp when hornet equips lanterns so it has to be close enough)
Four stones rage-baked, crushed powder coarse. = Ash in wisp thicket bags (it matches too closely)
Three shells fresh from pilgrims fallen, to contain and age. =pilgrims in bags of wisp thicket

[digital flare]

Hmm...

[whole holly]

Flickering Flame is Shaman spell and I think Burning Bugs are using that spell

[digital flare]

​I don't see a connection between the shamans and the burning bugs..

[whole holly]

Shamans develop spells and bugs can steal them sometimes Father of the Flame is huge spell that Burning Bugd unknowingly feed ingredients which are themselves

[whole holly]

In fact maybe Wisp Thicket was outpost for Shaman killed in Bilewater

[muted lantern]

Only connection is wisps are described as being made of flickering flame.

Which is also the name of a shaman spell

[digital flare]

Ok

[whole holly]

There are more but they are undertones

My theory is right

[limpid summit]

What theory

[edgy nebula]

they think shamans created the wisps and disprove everyone by copy and pasting the same ingredients for flickering flame

[limpid summit]

Hm

I mean

There’s only so many ways to describe fire in a medieval sense

It’s why you can’t be like burning bugs are related to the Grimm Troupe because they talk about dancing fire

That’s just what fire does

[edgy nebula]

you can try to discuss it with them, ive tried but they dont listen

@whole holly

[whole holly]

I did listen to every point and also responded to it

[whole holly]

Flickering Flame Wisp theory
Flickering Flame = Wisp (Hunter's Journal description)
Five masks swirled soul, brought and broiled. = Silk from Haunting (Silk generates wisp when hornet equips lanterns so it has to be close enough)
Four stones rage-baked, crushed powder coarse. = Ash in wisp thicket bags (it matches too closely)
Three shells fresh from pilgrims fallen, to contain and age. =pilgrims in bags of wisp thicket

[gentle aspen]

!wiki father of the flame

[oak meadow]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Father_of_the_Flame

[limpid summit]

I dunno about the first one

The wisps are burning silk

The lantern burns Hornet’s own regenerating silk

Maybe?

I could sort of se wit

[gentle aspen]

I’m confused

[edgy nebula]

about

[gentle aspen]

wdym by wisp = flickering flame

[edgy nebula]

the wisp hj entry says theyre born of flickering flame

[gentle aspen]

They’re called short lived sprites of flickering flame

[gentle aspen]

yeah so what’s the theory there????

that’s just a fact

[edgy nebula]

that theyre made of shaman's flickering flame, but most people disagree with them

[gentle aspen]

why would they be made from a shaman

[edgy nebula]

mainly because it's said wisps were around before burning bugs and theres not much that seems like a shaman was there

[gentle aspen]

we’re told the methodology

[edgy nebula]

no i dont mean that

i meant that theyre made of flickering flame in general

[gentle aspen]

yeah, they are

what do shamans have to do with that

[edgy nebula]

shamans know how to make flickering flame

itd be weird for random cultists to know how to make it anyway

[gentle aspen]

what

[ocean crown]

I return

[gentle aspen]

okay so like

why is “flickering flame” being used as a noun

it’s a noun and an adjective together

they make fire and the fire flickers

[ocean crown]

We still talking about the flame

[edgy nebula]

yeah

[edgy nebula]

i dont know im burnt out from this discussion since it's been going on for 3 hours

[gentle aspen]

weak

[limpid summit]

Prime Missi

[edgy nebula]

[limpid summit]

We ALL remember wolfing down dinner so we could post walls at missi

[ocean crown]

[edgy nebula]

do we have any other better discussions to talk about

[limpid summit]

I was having this discussion earlier

With Mister Mushroom being firmly cemented “above all others” the only Higher Being quality we have concretely

Do you think it’s fair for us to call him a Higher Being without a canon alternative term

He’s not narratively presented as one without it being said like Unn or NMH

[edgy nebula]

it's possible

[limpid summit]

But I think it’s the best thing we have to describe him

[fresh badger]

Mr Mushroom is above beings who exist above all others

[limpid summit]

Being Being

[ocean crown]

Is fay a higher being?

Also why can it talk w Mr mushroom

[fresh badger]

Could be an old heart imo

[fresh badger]

Built diff

[whole holly]

Why is this surprising given the fact that everything matches up, shaman spell with be origin story of the cult, I stand by it

[solar wave]

NMH?

[silk dirge]

fayforn is an old heart

or a current heart rather

[whole holly]

She is at least the Old Heart in my opinion

[solar wave]

What is NMH?

[covert night]

solid theory

i like it

[dire lynx]

the nightmares heart

[solar wave]

Ohhhhhh…

[dire lynx]

wtf is this sprite lmao

[whole holly]

Thank you

[edgy nebula]

he spits

[dire lynx]

yeah, but why does it look like that

[whole holly]

Hey so where does Silksong lore discussion on Reddit happen r/silksong are silkposts

[dense sphinx]

What is the black wyrm

[stray grove]

You asked this question in #hk-lore and got an answer

[dense sphinx]

I did?

Mb

[limpid summit]

Probably not

It doesn’t do much