sk-lore

[ember river]

We know that skarr faces don't look like that so they're most definetely helmets/masks

[twin dragon]

Tbf tk extracted the dream nail from the dream realm

so how dreams work is still a topic of discussion

[ember river]

The dreamnail is made of essence

Of course it would come from the dream realm

[twin dragon]

Yeah but its still a physical thing

or at least seemingly

[ember river]

The dream realm is different than what Hornet does though

[twin dragon]

Yeah

[ember river]

Apparently the red memory thing is a weaver ability

So they play by different rules

[twin dragon]

It's a shaman spell

because soul can do everything

apparently

[ember river]

Hornet: I would not seek it in these lands. I need its power full, and it is too fragile to sustain here long. I would seek it in my memory.
Caretaker: Oh ho ho! So you'd have us wrench open your soul, to retrieve the fabled bloom? Can such a thing be done?
Hornet: For another bug, no, but I am Weaver enough to attempt it.

Bringing forth the everbloom is a weaver ability

[twin dragon]

???

no what

[ember river]

"I am weaver enough to attempt it"

[twin dragon]

She's basically saying that she has enough balls to take the risk

not that its weaver related

[ember river]

That's a stupid way of reading it

"Can such a thing be done?"
"Not for these pansies but I've got more balls"

[twin dragon]

Either way if you interpret it another way

she could be saying her soul is sturdier

[quick geyser]

I want to know what exactly do you mean by this

[twin dragon]

not that the ability is exclusive to weavers

[ember river]

That it's something the weavers can do

[twin dragon]

because it doesn't make sense

it's not related to weavers at all

[quick geyser]

So the weaver can just access their own memory to bring out a physical object?

[ember river]

With immense amounts of power it seems so

[twin dragon]

No, the shamans cast a powerful spell to do so

that's why the hornet needs them in the first place

like my god

[ember river]

I feel like that's much closely related to her wyrm side than her weaver side

[ember river]

She needs them because her own power wouldn't be enough

She says so herself

[twin dragon]

The ones opening her soul are the shamans

they literally say so

[ember river]

The spell itself is described as "illuminating the memories"

Not actually bringing the item

Chapel Maid: Ah! So you're asking another spell of us? To reveal the flower clear?... But to illuminate one of your kind's old memories, so acutely... This is no easy thing, even for us...
Chapel Maid: Old One, you must give us a moment to confer...
Chapel Maid: We could do it. The spell can be cast, with enough power, enormous power, equal maybe to that monarch...
Hornet: I cannot grant you mine, if it even were enough. My strength is still needed to face her below. Where else do you propose we seek a source?

They say "even for us" so it's not restricted to them either

[twin dragon]

Yeah she can't grant her soul

[oak palm]

You can literally see the face of the spear skarr yeah

[twin dragon]

she needs the old hearts for that

[oak palm]

Spear skarr I mean

[ember river]

The "wrenching open her soul" is what the shamans do and it's not something unique to them either

[oak palm]

Why is skarrwijg the little one that's lame

[ember river]

Actually bringing the item is something Weavers can do, according ot the dialogue

[twin dragon]

The shamans say so because it is known that they're experts with soul

[twin dragon]

oh my fucking god

do like

people that play this game

exist

[oak palm]

I feel like godhome would be in some old bug's memory

[quick geyser]

How do you interpret that line?

[ember river]

What line

[twin dragon]

And casting the spell is a hard thing to do, even for the soul experts

[ember river]

You literally interpreted "I'm weaver enough to attempt that" as "Yeah I have more balls than these pansies"

[quick geyser]

Wrenching open the soul. I thought it was very clear that the snails casted a spell that allows Hornet to enter her own memory

[twin dragon]

Yeah that could be a wrong interpretation

doesn't invalidate my point

[craggy smelt]

Hornet: In the distant past, I knew the flower. My thread still holds its faint memory. If the Everbloom was grasped strongly enough within my Silk, it could be made to manifest.
Chapel Maid: Ah! So you're asking another spell of us? To reveal the flower clear?... But to illuminate one of your kind's old memories, so acutely... This is no easy thing, even for us...
Hornet needs the shamans to make the memory clear so she can grasp it with her silk and make it manifest
this might be something that only works specifically on the Everbloom, given how weird and magical it is
but turning dreams into something real isn't unheard of (charms etc.)

[ember river]

It's described as that in another line

[twin dragon]

So you're asking another spell of us?

[ember river]

All the shamans do is described as illuminate the memories, actually bringing back the item is just related to the weavers

[quick geyser]

Thank you kind stranger.

[twin dragon]

The spell actually makes this task feasible

by putting hornet in such state

[ember river]

Yeah no shit, they assist her, but that's not what I was arguing

[twin dragon]

Could be related with how silk recreate memories

instead of accessing the dream realm

TK takes a seemingly physical dream nail from the dream world doe

[ember river]

As I said, that plays by different rules

It's made of essence

Pure Vessel can conjure seemingly physical blades out of soul

[twin dragon]

Soul IS a corporeal thing doe

the dream realm is separate

[ember river]

I mean, Unn created greenpath from a dream

And the Radiance created the moths from the dream realm

There are clearly ways of interacting

[twin dragon]

Radiance not being a corporeal being created the moths, and the infection

Im still confused about that part

[ember river]

As I said

[ember river]

.

[twin dragon]

Still, possibly not explained

[ember river]

It's not explained and probably never will

[twin dragon]

Cool

[craggy smelt]

Essence can become Soul - dream nailing enemies gives you Soul
dreams can become all kinds of things, really (charms etc.)
HBs turning their dreams into living beings is like a godly version of that

I been wondering, if maybe the reason pale beings like PK seem to have infinite Soul is because they can turn their godly dreams into an endless source of it?
pale beings often seem to have dream/essence related powers as well

[twin dragon]

Essence doesn't become soul

it's IN the soul

irrc

[ember river]

What

[ember river]

That's an interesting idea actually

[twin dragon]

Iffy connection but an explanation nonetheless

[craggy smelt]

nah, cuz you can dream nail Collector and get Soul from them that way
but just beating on them doesn't give any, because they're a Void being
you can use the dream nail on them because they got instilled with the Love Key Bug's mind/thoughts/wtv

[twin dragon]

Yeah you extract the soul from their imprinted essence or wtv

Still not very clear how it works

[craggy smelt]

with dreams anything is possible~!

[twin dragon]

I love bullshit magic

[ember river]

Considering most higher beings can interact directly with the dream realm they are probably much closer than you think

We've seen stuff travel both ways

Like the entire White Palace

[twin dragon]

Yeah

Probably related to their mastery over soul/essence

though i understand how pk could possibly pull that off

but radiance?

[ember river]

Radiance is still a very strong being

Unn also brought an entire biome from her dreams

[craggy smelt]

my question is, if Radiance exists in the dream realm, how'd the moths wind up in the waking realm
did she just make them pop into existence there?

[twin dragon]

Yeah how does unn do that

[ember river]

Because she's a god with godlike powers

[twin dragon]

Probably did the essence into soul transfer thing

like what PK did with the white palace

but inversed

[twin dragon]

Yeah well those godlike powers can vary from each hb

[ember river]

There's a chance she merely uplifted them but considering the Seer dissolves into Essence, she probably molded them from it

[craggy smelt]

oh shit yeah, I forgot

they were all mothlids at one point

Seer bought into the propaganda

[ember river]

Seer was the #1 radiance apologist and that's why she was allowed to live

[twin dragon]

How does a being made of essence even exist

[craggy smelt]

in dreams, I guess

[ember river]

Radiance and the Nightmare Heart are beings made of essence

[twin dragon]

I mean the seer is a thing

[ember river]

The ghosts are also made of essence

[twin dragon]

Their physical form is in the dream realm doe

the seers seemingly crossing this barrier is weird

[craggy smelt]

Seer might be turning back into Essence
she also becomes a bug! So maybe she's doing her own version of what the Citadel did with silkflies

[ember river]

My theory is that the Radiance did something like Unn did but since she's inherently tied to the dream realm, that's where they return

There seems to be a way for things to actually travel back and forth

[craggy smelt]

its sometimes a trope in fiction where powerful entities can't leave their realm and take form since their power is too great
while less powerful beings can manage it easier
see like a whole bunch of settings with lesser and greater demons

might be just a lot easier for a regular moth to go back and forth, while Radiance can only stay there

[ember river]

To be fair, if the Radiance took a vulnerable physical form the Pale King would have probably just beaten her into submission and tossed her into the Abyss manually

[twin dragon]

I don't really think she's very capable of doing that either way

it would most likely cripple her or smt

[ember river]

But according to some Seer dialogue, both Radiance and NH are intrinsically tied to a very sizeable portion of the dream realm

[craggy smelt]

the infection is like the closest thing we get to that
(and its gross and weird)

[twin dragon]

This is why yeah

their power might just plummet outside

[ember river]

So they can only project onto the physical world

[twin dragon]

It's origins are also weird

[ember river]

In... various ways

[twin dragon]

NH has a literal vessel while the radiance vomits

[ember river]

The Heart for example uses Grimm as a vessel/avatar to interact with the world

The Radiance, if she desired, could probably exist within a vessel of her own

[twin dragon]

Pk would torture the vessel to death

probably

[craggy smelt]

she's had bad experience with vessels

[dire lynx]

she does go into the heads of the infected and command them sometimes

[twin dragon]

Silk memories could be a projection of essence in some way

[ember river]

Yeah, Myla comes to mind

[twin dragon]

though it seems to recreate the memories through physical means instead of an entirely separate realm

[whole holly]

i would assume it would be harder to contain radiance than Nightmare Heart(since it split of dream realm entirely) and Radiance's Power is vast if she only needs to be remembered to be sustained

[plain mountain]

i have a questions actually :

can karamelitia change her size like white lady cuzshe is bigger than how she was in the dream

and is her weakned state caused by the earthquake or she was like that since the beginning

also how do lace talk to you in the abyss cuz i am really curious

like the first time you go there

also was the abyss a place where the weavers purify themselves ?

[dire lynx]

the tablet about purification was from the ancient civilisation, not the weavers

[dire lynx]

karmelita is a mortal bug, like vespa, she simply grew large with age. her weakness is also due to her age, not the quakes from the abyss

[dry compass]

Could the Skarrs adopted some Citadel culture

I mean Rosaries are dropped and theres rosaries around there Home you could say its a trap for travellers but why would the Skarrs, also have a Skarrguard to guard rosaries.

[heavy gyro]

They probably traded with others before the haunting, like the mottled skarr did

And rosaries were the universal currency

[solar tapir]

I had the same question about rosaries and it seems Skarr really could use it like currency too and definitely as a trophies

[whole holly]

and craws too, craws need more lore

[limpid summit]

Was the irl WJ written after Godmaster

[swift needle]

My friend called the pale king the pain killer king 😭✌️

In crine

[stray fog]

Crows like shiny things

[whole holly]

ok

[stray fog]

Rosary = shiny

[whole holly]

Nightmare King Grimm vs Weaver Queen Hornet, who would will

[stray fog]

Does grimm use his full power for the ritual

Probably not

He isn't doing it like a life or death situation

[whole holly]

Grimm's Scarlet Flame seems like unique flavor of essence like Weaver's silk is unique soul

i wish it was explored, it would be great way to explore game

it would be interesting for Gameplay, Reaper Crest but with Faster DPS

Nightmare Heart seems to be as strong as GMS, with Radiance being stronger than both, one relies on Grimmkin other relies on Weavers to be sustained

[twin dragon]

NOOO

POWERSCALING

NOO

[whole holly]

Hornet in strung to serve ending seems to serve GMS like Grimm does serve Nightmare Heart

[rapid bloom]

GMS got fused with Hornet, thus creating a new being

It's similar to how the Knight took THK's place in sealing the Radiance

[whole holly]

oh, that's interesting

[whole holly]

that in itself is similar to Grimm Ritual tho

[rapid bloom]

Grimm is the Avatar of the Nightmare's Heart

It's the Heart's manifestation to live and perform the ritual

[whole holly]

no NKG is avatar and Troupemaster Grimm is vessel

[rapid bloom]

They are the cycle

First Troupemaster Grimm

And then NKG

[whole holly]

no that's not true

[whole holly]

Nightmare King Grimm is only in Nightmare Realm, Grimm contains Nightmare Heart

Grimmchild slowly gains scarlet flame, we help it defeat the Grimm, and then Nightmare King Grimm to complete Ritual

[whole holly]

that's not strung to serve ending, lol, that's hornet binding GMS, i am talking about scrapped ending where hornet is strung to serve GMS

[rapid bloom]

Ohhhh

Then yes

You'd be right

[whole holly]

look that ending up

[rapid bloom]

I recall it, don't they all end up Haunted?

Like, no sane bug left?

[whole holly]

yes, that is right

[twin dragon]

Hornet IS bound by gms

in strung to serve

[whole holly]

from all characters we know from Hollow Knight universe Grimm or possible Steel Heart would be fit for Player Character

[twin dragon]

hornet

[whole holly]

he confused it with Hornet binding GMS

[pliant meadow]

That's cut content tho, so you really can't call it canon

[twin dragon]

ah

[whole holly]

she already is like knight

[whole holly]

we aren't

[half zenith]

Not if the combined power of friendship and or love does it. There’s an excellent fic on Ao3 about it and I started making a boss theme for haunted Hornet inspired by Queen Deltarune’s first boss theme

[pliant meadow]

Damn alr

[twin dragon]

Yeah but that's what gms's goal originally was possibly

[half zenith]

Idk I love fanfics where the story keeps going after a bad end and eventually gets a happy ending

[rapid bloom]

It was

[pliant meadow]

Uh is this the right channel for that buddy?

[rapid bloom]

Fanfic lore 👀

[half zenith]

Well we’re discussing lore and I don’t see a fanfic/headcanon channel around here

[rapid bloom]

Because the server is more focused on exploring the games

[whole holly]

it sucks that Sharp Dart is spell that costs so much Silk and Sharp Shadow doesn't cost anything except time,knight has unfair advantage, but then again Sharp Shadow may be collecting soul like Soul Totems do

[pliant meadow]

Well it's definitely not lore, I'd go to #hk-discussion

[half zenith]

It is based off of canon lore tho. I guess the boss theme isn’t tho…

[pliant meadow]

Sharpdart does do much more damage though

[whole holly]

or #art-discussion if you are creator

[pliant meadow]

Yeah

[whole holly]

Sharp Dart does more damage? sure than just sharp shadow but Sharp Shadow can be strengthened by synergies more than Sharp Dart

[half zenith]

But still! A scenario where you had to play as Lace to solve a two person puzzle or rescue Hornet from a situation would be so fun

[pliant meadow]

What about shamans crest & volt filament? Theres no chance sharp shadow does more damage after all of that

[half zenith]

They fixed the “DLC player 2 is too different from the actual player character” issue the first game had by making Lace just have an identical hitbox and mirrored fighting style to Hornet

[twin dragon]

Was

[pliant meadow]

Lmao

[whole holly]

you probably right but i though Sharp Shadow + Dashmaster + Unbreakable Strength + Sprintmaster was more OP

[rapid bloom]

This is new...

It allowed me to send GIFs before

[pliant meadow]

Neither of those charms buff sharp shadow damage

[half zenith]

So I can plausibly see the DLC making you fight an endgame strength Hornet as Lace (with buffed HP), or making you fight a double battle against a dual boss with Lace helping you

[whole holly]

Sprintmaster makes it more quick, Dashmaster makes it 1.5x nail damage, unbreakable charm buffs nail damage

[dry compass]

Wait why are we on HK charm discussion now

This new Silksong lore is crazy

[whole holly]

we are comparing it to Sharp Dart

[dry compass]

Damn

[rapid bloom]

Loorewise, the Knight beats Hornet tho

So-

[half zenith]

The framework for an endgame Hornet bossfight w/ player character Lace is already there in multiple places

[pliant meadow]

Sharp shadow isn't affected by unbreakable strength

Dashmaster uses base nail dmg

[whole holly]

okay, i didn't know that

[pliant meadow]

That's alright

[half zenith]

There’s no less than four sources of infection in the game -all you would need to do is make the Witch crest go out of control in a bad end, make Hornet get possessed by Grand Mother silk in an alternate ending, make Hornet become lost instead of Lace, or make Hornet overdose on lifeblood and unlock a bad ending

[whole holly]

i guess then Sharp Dart can be more buffed, but for Spell Cost Sharp Shadow is better

[pliant meadow]

This seems like a lot of steps dude

[whole holly]

1. Regular infection gone 2.haunting is disappearing 3.plasmification depends on amount and frequency 4. void is not really infection

[pliant meadow]

Ig? But sharpdart just deals so much more damage, since it's made to be used as an actual spell

[whole holly]

i wish Egg of Flealia wasn't so useless, full HP thing sucks but if you are gonna plasmify on Architect Crest then sure

[pliant meadow]

How would hornet become lost? The only reason act 3 happens is bc gms wanted to protect lace by grabbing Pharloom with her silk

[whole holly]

it is just that i almost never use spells and default to attack but i always used Sharp Shadow

[pliant meadow]

Oh yeah egg of flealia is useless lol

[whole holly]

Shaman Crest also sucks also Volt Filament, Volt filament should also have made binding electric if it generally makes silk electric, then i would never take it off

[pliant meadow]

How does shaman crest suck?

[whole holly]

Poison Pouch Tools are just best, especially Cogflies

[whole holly]

Bind, Slow DPS, Wanderer is better and for Spells Reaper is better despite shaman's buff because Reaper gives free silk

and i haven't gotten used to Witch or Beast Crest, can't say much about them

hope there new crest in Sea of Sorrows

[pliant meadow]

Oh there's gotta be

[half zenith]

I said OR, not AND

It’s not a lot of steps, it’s a lot of different options

[pliant meadow]

Okay well really only 3 of these work, and lifeblood is debatable

[half zenith]

(Excuse lore inaccuracies. I haven’t actually finished the game yet, I just have zero control with Ao3 or spoiler warnings in general)

I’m still stuck on Groal ToT

[half zenith]

Fair point but we’re getting a whole DLC about lifeblood and while Hornet can handle it normally, I’m sure there is a set of conditions that would overwhelm even her

[pliant meadow]

Well idk if sos is gonna be just lifeblood, but I'm sure it's gonna have a bit of new lore

[half zenith]

She finds plasmification unpleasant at the very least and notices something threatening to overtake her will, which is a bad sign that points to hypothetical conditions where she could get overwhelmed if she got exposed to a large enough amount of lifeblood or got weakened enough to be unable to fight back against it

As for a different option -I wonder if we’ll eventually get something exploring root lore?

I’d be fascinated to see whether all roots are parasitic or if Grayroot is just a freak

Roots don’t seem to be inherently higher beings but they can become higher beings through certain means

Grayroot has to infect a demigod and bring her to Grand Mother Silk to be reborn as a pale being

If in a DLC the twisted child somehow got born by other means and became a bossfight… that would be fascinating

[pliant meadow]

Wait wait what? The creature born in twisted child is a pale being? Where are we getting this from?

[stray fog]

What if gms is inspired by the mind flayer from stranger things 🤔

Both are spiders who control minds

[half zenith]

It just makes sense -both GMS and Hornet are absorbed by the root, left as wood husks, so it only makes sense for the twisted child to carry the stolen power

[stray fog]

For the haunting, you need to be exposed to silk

For the mind flayer, it is done through exposure to particles from the upside abyss

[gentle aspen]

eh

having their power doesn’t entail being reborn as a pale being

[pliant meadow]

I mean, it kinda does make sense, but it is an assumption, which we should be taking into account

[half zenith]

Well we don’t know what actually is the case, we don’t see the twisted child itself

[pliant meadow]

Gms ain't a spider dawg

[pliant meadow]

Yeah so definitive info on it is negligible

[pliant meadow]

I count 8 arms and 1 leg

[gentle aspen]

She’s the primordial source of silk

[half zenith]

I wonder if a DLC could introduce an alternate twisted child route where the twisted child gets born through some other host (maybe one Hornet prepares herself, knowing what Grayroot would do to her) and Hornet binds Grayroot’s soul to get the witch crest

[stray fog]

I know, but that isn't relevant to the mindflayer discussion

[half zenith]

Mostly because I’m curious to meet the twisted child -what sort of person that would be

[gentle aspen]

well there’s no discussion there

[twin dragon]

horrific

[twin dragon]

probably a parasite just like greyroot

[half zenith]

Yeah, but if the rite that lets Grayroot be born as herself gets interrupted, perhaps the innocent child can grow up to be a better person

(I presume that’s grayroots intention anyway)

[twin dragon]

I mean, grayroot doesn't seem very capable of complex thought

[pliant meadow]

That thing is not innocent bro it's just a clone of grey root

[half zenith]

So? It hasn’t done anything wrong just by existing

[twin dragon]

Well it's gonna be as parasitic as grayroot is presumably

[whole holly]

If it inherited Greyroot nature then yes

[pliant meadow]

Well it can't grow without parasitising a host so it shouldn't be allowed to

[half zenith]

It needs to be removed from Hornet’s body for her own health and safety (and personal autonomy tbh) but Grayroot is the one who assaults and parasitizes Hornet

[whole holly]

Or become like White Lady

[twin dragon]

they aren't similar aside from looking like roots

like at all

[gentle aspen]

I don’t know why you’d assert it becomes different from Greyroot or becomes like WL

[half zenith]

So? Grayroot is a terrible person on her own

She’s clearly capable of scheming

Even if she isn’t very good at acting normal

[pliant meadow]

Is she?

[whole holly]

I know, but power of hornet and gms can change that

[gentle aspen]

the purpose is to make another one of her

[half zenith]

Yes

[pliant meadow]

😭

[gentle aspen]

the only difference is that this version of Greyroot would be leaps and bounds more powerful

[half zenith]

Just like every other evil immortal witch

[gentle aspen]

without leagues of assumptions

[twin dragon]

Also it's literally grayroot, possibly not even her offspring

[pliant meadow]

Greyroot is a parasitic organism, I doubt it's even intelligent

[twin dragon]

her quest is entirely based off of rebirth

[half zenith]

White lady is an intelligent root

[whole holly]

Hornet becomes different when she binds GMS, I assume twisted child will resemble GMS but it may change and be pale being and root

[pliant meadow]

And?????

[half zenith]

And your assertion that Grayroot isn’t intelligent is wrong

[whole holly]

Assuming Root also absorbs soul imprint of hornet and gms

[gentle aspen]

Hornet binding GMS is not the same as the parasite absorbing them both

[whole holly]

I think greyroot is, lack of needolin dialogue doesn’t prove anything

[half zenith]

Anyway the thing I’ve been typing up. An alternate twisted child route route would need to fit with the abortion quest metaphor though -if the parasite quest is a commentary on unsafe/unwanted pregnancy and unsafe abortion, then perhaps an alternate route would be a commentary on what happens if the unwanted child is born and how they and the parent are treated simply for their origin story

[whole holly]

Sure, technically speaking, but parasite does sap the power of them both

[pliant meadow]

THE WHAT QUEST METAPHOR

[gentle aspen]

that “technically speaking” matters

Hornet binding something and obtaining a new crest is different from being drained

[gentle aspen]

her nature can be overtaken by the thing she is binding

[whole holly]

I never said it didn’t but end result should be similar since absorption and binding both claim power of victim

[gentle aspen]

No, the end result is not similar

the methodology and the person doing it are different

[pliant meadow]

We don't have non-cut-content evidence of this afaik

[whole holly]

Both exclusively sap the power

[gentle aspen]

Wrong

I am sorry, Eva. I cannot grant you this. At least, not yet.
Hornet: Yours is a mind strong and strange. That union could prove dangerous to my identity.
I understand, Lady. I will be here, if ever you reconsider.

[stray fog]

The needolin dialogue for the corpses in the witch chapel-

"...Ours...
...Forgotten...
...New birth...
...Reborn..."

ours
As if the parasite takes the nature of all its victims

[half zenith]

Yeah the quest is a commentary on unsafe pregnancy and unsafe abortion -after being assaulted, Hornet has a parasite in her that has greatly weakened her and will kill her if it is born. She wants it gone but the lack of competent surgeons around makes that… unnecessarily difficult and it ends up being really dangerous and painful to get the parasite removed. She will carry the trauma of the whole experience forever.

[whole holly]

Maybe root may not get memories or whatever but it does get strength + power

[pliant meadow]

I mean, I'm not wrong. I said afaik gng

[gentle aspen]

whatever helps you sleep at night

[whole holly]

Thanks

[whole holly]

This is really important

[gentle aspen]

so?
This is like, repeating what Greyroot says. It doesn’t mean that the parasite takes their nature or memories

[stray fog]

Me adding "in Minecraft" at the end of my detailed plan to blow up a hospital

[pliant meadow]

See you get it

[gentle aspen]

she’s been forgotten as no one comes by anymore

Aye, yes! Not your own specimen, surely, but way back, other travellers did sometimes carry similar. Odd types they all were. Offerings they'd call the crying things, and towards the core of Shellwood they would trek. Never I did see one again, not the buds nor the bugs that brought the gift..."

None... none come now. Once times, many bugs. Many. Now none."

probably because no one ever appeared again

so folks stopped doing it

[stray fog]

She keeps using "our"

Either greyroot had an entire cult, and now only 1 member is left

Or she's talking about multiple people

[gentle aspen]

Greyroot never uses the word “our” in her dialogue wdym

[whole holly]

Needolin dialogue says it

[stray fog]

I misread the "your" in your message

Im lowkey brainded 🔥

[whole holly]

It says Our here

[gentle aspen]

why the fuck is my message getting a downvote its literally correct

[pliant meadow]

Greyroot doesn't have needolin dialogue, only the corpses do

[stray fog]

I thought it said "not our specimen"

[whole holly]

even if corpses says it, them being absorbed by parasite is still them being reborn

[pliant meadow]

No Greyroot is the one being reborn

The corpses are those of pilgrims

[whole holly]

corpses say ours about rebirth

[whole holly]

Greyroot doesn't have to since Corpses do

[half zenith]

So as a corollary to the abortion quest, if the twisted child is somehow birthed without killing Hornet in the process (maybe the specimen is preserved after its removal or maybe Hornet simply never takes it back to Grayroot), the quest to sustain it might be a metaphor for an unplanned child birthed out of wedlock -the mother did nothing wrong and the child did nothing wrong, yet both are shamed simply for their life circumstances, and the parent must find a way to sustain the child or give it to someone who can and help it escape the shadow of it’s more malicious other parent

[whole holly]

; The needolin dialogue for the corpses in the witch chapel-

"...Ours...
...Forgotten...
...New birth...
...Reborn..."

ours

[gentle aspen]

So?????

The rite entails two people of course the word our is going to be used

[whole holly]

so it still furthers the point that rebirth is collective, since word our is used in context of rebirth

[gentle aspen]

the word “our” is used because someone is bringing the method for rebirth and getting infected with a parasite

That parasite then kills them and Greyroot is reborn

It’s a leap to assert that the victims have any pull on Greyroot now

[whole holly]

no parasitism is mentioned here :
"...Ours...
...Forgotten...
...New birth...
...Reborn..."

[whole holly]

Ours is stated directly in context of New Birth, and being reborn

[gentle aspen]

That doesn’t matter

It is literally a parasite

That is what the bud does to peoepl

Hornet says and shows as much

[whole holly]

but context isn't about parasitism, it is about collective rebirth, it is directly said

[gentle aspen]

oh my fucking god

stop spam reacting me

[whole holly]

it is just reaction

[gentle aspen]

YES

YOU ARE

[whole holly]

buttered cheese working hard rn

[robust wagon]

I'm in the mines

[gentle aspen]

you are selectively reading one piece of dialogue and ignoring everything else

[half zenith]

Is anyone going to give an opinion on my theory for a hypothetical alternate route for the Grayroot abortion quest

[gentle aspen]

“Oh its about rebirth”
Yes, the rebirth of greyroot

[gentle aspen]

‘s not really a theory

[robust wagon]

I don't see how the parasite could be born without taking over hornet's body entirely

[whole holly]

pretty directly saying Our Rebirth

[half zenith]

It seems to survive just fine outside her body before Grayroot implants it into Hornet

[stray fog]

Why does every message have 50 reactions now

[robust wagon]

Yeah ik but I mean like actually grow up

[half zenith]

It’s a plant? You could feed it meat and water it

Anyway, grayroot has way more lore than her minor role in the game has any right to. I think she’ll get a DLC expansion someday

[robust wagon]

It's a parasite it needs a host

[half zenith]

Why does she have a whole ass secret ending

[gentle aspen]

No, it doesn’t
You assume that because of two separate lines of needolin dialogue

[whole holly]

different needolin dialogue have same context

[half zenith]

So? Implant it into like a large beast or something

[whole holly]

Pavo: "Aye, yes! Not your own specimen, surely, but way back, other travellers did sometimes carry similar. Odd types they all were. Offerings they'd call the crying things, and towards the core of Shellwood they would trek. Never I did see one again, not the buds nor the bugs that brought the gift..." bugs offered up their lives

[gentle aspen]

then another greyroot would be created

[whole holly]

technically plasmium changes and twists nature of things, so who knows

[spark valve]

Acquire Steel Spines from Crull and Benjin in Sinner's Road so Yarnaby can remove the parasite.
infestation operation description

[gentle aspen]

clearly not willingly

if it were willing the flow of people would not have stopped

and I argue that since this has clearly happened before with Greyroot remembering there used to be people but not anymore, that there is effectively no difference between them

[whole holly]

bugs that brought the gift... is literally line and if greyroot could force people to do that flow wouldn't have stopped, those bugs offered their lives of greyroots and died out

[spark valve]

it is her rebirth so yeah seems pretty simple

[gentle aspen]

😐

Hornet brought the gift

She clearly did not want it to happen

I did not say she forced people to do it
I said people did not willingly give their lives

She did not give context

People thought “oh, I’m getting something for someone.”

Not “Oh, I’m gonna go die now. Yippie!!!”

[whole holly]

hornet is clear exception, but multiple bugs collectively visiting greyroot and chapel of witch has religious Connotation

[gentle aspen]

well nika’s asserting it’s not just “her rebirth”
Apparently it’s everyone involved’s rebirth

[gentle aspen]

she’s the exception because she survived

not because she “didn’t want it”

You’re assuming too much with no basis

[spark valve]

nah greyroot didn't tell hornet what was going on but they probably told all the others trust me bro

[whole holly]

greyroot absorbs them and saps them and their lives become part of cycle, and they don't exist independently

[gentle aspen]

yes
their lives are taken
they do not become part of greyroot

this is like saying I’m part cow because I eat and absorb burger nutrients

[whole holly]

their life force does as parasite clearly saps that and crest is soul imprint

[gentle aspen]

and other people just stopped coming for zero reason

[gentle aspen]

yes
their life force
because they were killed

[whole holly]

they died out

[gentle aspen]

Wrong

You asserted that with zero evidence

[whole holly]

have you seen hornet's cursed crest?

[spark valve]

I mean there are multiple reasons why that might happen but yes pavo even gives hornet a warning which he'd presumably have eventually started giving other bud holders

[whole holly]

they are literally dead bug in chapel of witch

[gentle aspen]

alright man I’m done

you’re just saying shit

Not worth my time

Bye

[whole holly]

at least i have evidence

[whole holly]

Parasite saps Soul/Life/Silk, can Cursed Crest literally shows that well enough, why is Soul Imprint that shocking of concept

[coral falcon]

How come Hornet's silk never damage anyone when she's healing yet when she was fighting the Knight in Hollow Knight they got damaged everytime she used her slik?

[limpid summit]

Silk doesn’t hurt on contact

The thread storm she uses hurts because she’s whipping it around

[whole holly]

kinda like how ambient soul is not harmful but shamans can make deadly spells from it

[agile surge]

Alright, so something isn't sitting right with me about the old hearts

I don't think any of them are dead

We know Karmelita and the Green Prince weren't dead

which leaves Nyleth and Khan

Thanks to Watcher at the Edge, we know that just because a... coral... man? looks like they are dead and are stiff as a statue, they can still be alive

so i think he's also still alive

all of their hearts are also beating when you get them, implying they can't be long dead

The Encrusted Heart beats deep and slow, which is fitting if Khan was in a state similar to hibernation or brumation

and then there's Nyleth

the heart beats fast, which I don't think would make sense if she was dead

[blissful harbor]

khann is definitely not dead until after we kill him in prime, i might be misremembering but i’m pretty sure he doesn’t crust up like all other karaks until after

[agile surge]

oh, it does crumple after. i didnt remember it doing it at all, but it does

anyways the obvious question is that if nyleth is alive, what the fuck is going on?

is she... idk, in the statue?

if not, how did the heart get there?

[blissful harbor]

the implication i got with nyleth is she’s kinda become all of shellwood, she’s no longer just that flower form like in the past
why the statue makes her heart bloom on it, maybe she really likes the citadels peace offering idk

[whole holly]

she is most likely in similar state to isma, inactive, hibernating and at one with shellwood

[whole holly]

her body is possibly in similar state to this:

Isma and Nyleth seem to be similar, only Nyleth has better feats and more importance

more than Unn too, to be honest

[heavy gyro]

The unn beef will never stop

😭

[edgy nebula]

it’s possible she is the statue, akin to petrified wood but still alive, or it’s possible she’s fused with the surrounding area

[fresh badger]

Petrified wood...? Like...a grey root...?

[edgy nebula]

what is this, some kinda shell wood?

[stray fog]

Hold on what if greyroot killed nyleth

[lean temple]

The splinters are a more likely culprit

[stray fog]

But idk why they'd make her corpse a fountain

[cedar skiff]

yeah none of them were dead

hornet just goes back to fight them when the hearts were at their prime before gms/the citadel overpowered them all

[jagged socket]

Is styx like, a weaver? or related to weavers?

[gentle aspen]

no

he seems to be a faceless individual that has hella problems with identity

[jagged socket]

So the lore is that nyleth was super powerful, so powerful that even the citadel couldnt take her down, so instead they built her a shrine (the fountain) and would send pilgrims to worship her in return for safe passage through shellwood

[gentle aspen]

Which is why he has all those masks

[jagged socket]

Yeah but like he LITERALLY weaves

Idk if hes the one making the sillk though

[edgy nebula]

yeah but he doesnt look like them at all and he’s a guy

[gentle aspen]

all the weavers are female afawk

and he looks nothing like them

plus he makes like

silkeaters

[jagged socket]

He has a whole ass spiderweb 💔 I was just wondering if he was at least weaver adjacent due to the fact that he uses silk and makes stuff like webs

[edgy nebula]

i wouldnt be surprised if silkeaters either make silk or he finds it and strings it up

[gentle aspen]

well yeah, probably as a result of the silkeaters

[stray fog]

Damn I wasn't familiar with Nyleth's game 🙏

[torpid spade]

worked out for the Citadel too, as it's implied Nyleth was able to keep the woods safe, and only after her death (or disappearance or unn copycatting or whatever), did Sister Splinter and her ilk infest the woods

[fresh badger]

it would only have taken the citadel 10 years to create Bilewater Pond

[lean temple]

Beings like nosk also use silk. Doesn't make you a Weaver

[torpid spade]

nosk uses silk?

[lean temple]

Weavers have magic soul silk

[torpid spade]

oh wait in the body hanging

regular ass spider not gms uplifted spider

[lean temple]

Have you seen its den

The bodies are strung up

[torpid spade]

yes thats what I realized

[lean temple]

And the other spider tribe in deepnest, tho I'm not sure what became of them

[fresh badger]

Deepling deephunter de(ep)vout?

[torpid spade]

the guys that string you up on the bench

there's like. two and a half weavers total in hollow knight all the others are the regular spiders

[whole holly]

Two and half? half is hornet but who are two? widow, and one from hallownest is dead

[torpid spade]

herrah* lol and I thought there was one that runs away from you in the weaver nest?

[whole holly]

yeah, one that runs away is most likely dead, that's who i meant

[whole holly]

it's not beef per say, tbh, Unn is like Fayforn and Isma for importance of Game's Story, maybe lore makes Unn more important but it is not even fleshed out so who cares

Nyleth could use some fleshing out as well

i like Grimm as well, his story needs to be fleshed out, and before Silksong i would have said Lifeblood needs to be fleshed out as well

[twin dragon]

Tbf silksong did enough for lifeblood

the mystery of why it's a taboo is practically solved

[whole holly]

that's why i said before silksong

[whole holly]

yeah, i agree

[twin dragon]

i don't get why they want to expand even further

They should make tweaks to the base game so the abyss has more relevance

pre act 3

[whole holly]

maybe they have bigger story to tell, but what does not make sense Lifeblood strengthening shell and then deforming bodies, plus Joni wasn't resurrected by Lifeblood, Joni didn't seem in state that Alchemist was it either

[twin dragon]

It does make sense

Dose defines the poison

[whole holly]

and Song too thematically

[twin dragon]

lifeblood works with that same principle

[austere tendon]

They probably well if the life cycle of hollowknight is any indication

[twin dragon]

Thematically there's enough song imo, needs a bit more of a gameplay use

[whole holly]

i guess, but Joni had her whole bodily fluids replaced by lifeblood and so did Alchemist but they are still different

[austere tendon]

The music is just as good as hollowknight in my opinion, but base music volume feels low so it tends to dissappear into the background.

[twin dragon]

Not that song

the song magic

thingy

ofc with the ost tc always delievers

[austere tendon]

Yeah I realized after I sent that that you were talking about specific song I'm so sorry

[whole holly]

i agree but outside weaver's song aspects, nyleth's and crust king khann's musical aspects

[austere tendon]

What song now I need to find out

[twin dragon]

The weavers are very song -based

and yeah khann should've had something song related

[whole holly]

yeah i know it just needed to be fleshed out

[whole holly]

Nyleth was the Voice, Khann's Coral tower was Choral Tower

[twin dragon]

It is, for the weavers at least, i'd like to see more song users

[stray fog]

!wiki plasmidas

[oak meadow]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Plasmidas

Hollow Knight Wiki

Plasmidas

Plasmidases are enemies in Hollow Knight: Silksong. They are the Plasmified forms of Groms.

Health

80

Drops

None

Damage Modifiers

1.25    1    1    0.9    0.9

Journal kills

6

[austere tendon]

Isn't it like all of the Blasted steps Choral Tower?

[stray fog]

Why do these enemies get a head like zylotol

When plasmified

[twin dragon]

probably a callback

nothing much

[stray fog]

That didn't happen to joni

[heavy gyro]

Zylotol was already mutated partially

[twin dragon]

Joni's case is hella weird

[whole holly]

Grubsong and Carefree Melody was great charms in hollow knight embodying song or restoration and song of protection, silksong did create Sylphsong but ehh

[stray fog]

Ret-

[twin dragon]

They've only song in their name

that's about it

weaversong also ties to weavers

[whole holly]

Salubra and Elina as well as Joni consumed lifeblood, especially joni

[stray fog]

Salubra does it in moderation I guess

[whole holly]

i know but actual songs in Silksong could have done same thematically

[twin dragon]

that thing that knows too much at the bottom of deepnest tells us weavers crafted those yk

also that might tie to the existence of lil weavers

[whole holly]

definitely not joni, although salubra is bloated

[stray fog]

Imagine if we had a tool-like system where you could equip songs that do different things

[twin dragon]

Hk didn't do anything with it, it didn't even exist

[stray fog]

Someone should make this mod

[whole holly]

Weaverlings and Little Weavers aren't same

[twin dragon]

it was all related to soul or craft

[twin dragon]

Yes, but it could be a hint

[heavy gyro]

This is a stretch, but what if joni was infected by the radiance's infection before her death so the lifeblood aberrations didn't happen

[whole holly]

charm description did state that they were songs also grub care manual, as well as Marissa's Song which is only song that doesn't really do anything?

[twin dragon]

marissa's song is just marissa singing yk

[stray fog]

You're the chart guy

[twin dragon]

we don't rlly talk about hollow knight as song is pretty irrelevant

[whole holly]

i guess you could argue that there are no infected bugs in her room but idk

[stray fog]

Can infected bugs talk though

Joni talks

[whole holly]

add this fella

[heavy gyro]

Elder hu was infected and he talks

[austere tendon]

Thank you !

[twin dragon]

Nobody just got there guh

[stray fog]

Oh

[stray fog]

Not enough evidence to call them a spider

[twin dragon]

What infected lobotomite is going out of their way to go up there

[twin dragon]

This is a fan-made character technically

so it doesn't count

[stray fog]

I mean they are cooking lore for sharpe, and hes a fan made character

[whole holly]

really?

[stray fog]

Isnt it just the pincers

Or whatever those things on its mouth are called

[whole holly]

legs mostly and eyes in my opinion

[twin dragon]

Yeah but the ones that are in that spirit room were made before part of the established lore iirc

and are pretty irrelevant

[stray fog]

True (the eyes)

[whole holly]

i guess you are right

[twin dragon]

yes, it's based off of a spider

[whole holly]

they look like irl spiders

i wish we got unique spider we were supposed to get, one in cut content, named caravantina, i hope she starts drinking lifeblood and infused her Silk with Plasmium instead of Soul as she is not a weaver, i am speculating too much but it is fun

[twin dragon]

that sounds...

certainly interesting

not sure how that would work

[whole holly]

idk, plasmium plasmifies everything

[whole holly]

is it possible that Plasmium Starts to affect Silk produced within spiders glad

[heavy gyro]

Do regular spiders create silk in hollow knight

[torpid spade]

yes non magical silk and cobwebs is all over deepnest and even the citadel

[heavy gyro]

Couldn't that still be magical silk

[whole holly]

i think Little Weavers are infected Weavers that assimilated into hivemind, bardoon says that Infection "I resist the light's allure. Union it may offer, but also a mind bereft of thought... To instinct alone a bug is reduced...Hrrm..."

[torpid spade]

doesnt glow so its not the soul silk

[whole holly]

i mean we know that it is not soul infused, where would magic come from?

[harsh thorn]

guys quick question is the everbloom the same as the delicate flower?

[whole holly]

weavers are returning to pharlid state slowly, opposite of King's Beacon of Sapience

[torpid spade]

Little Weavers being infected Weavers make no sense
infection maxes out the size of bugs and little weavers are tiny compared to weavers

[whole holly]

yea, probably

[heavy gyro]

Whiteward silk doesn't glow either iirc

[torpid spade]

There's still magical silk in whiteward?

[whole holly]

i though that too, but Weavers are ascended by GMS, Radiance's Infection does opposite gradually?

[heavy gyro]

I mean yeah its where they infused the magical silk in everyone

[whole holly]

are they hybrids?

weavers realistically wouldn't produce that much hybrids and Team Cherry doesn't even draw line between native and non-native Spiders in Hallownest

maybe hornet's memory can clear it up? like how Wingsmoulds got another Hunter's Journal Entry

[gentle aspen]

I mean

we know hybrid weavers exist

Hornet and the rest of the ones sent out for by the Cradle

I don’t think that’s the explanation

[torpid spade]

eh idk. we have nothing to prove radiance reverts bodies as well as minds
actually. as its implied the infection bubbles was just radiance co-opting life blood and using that to spread its control
could it be that the gigantism found in infected bugs wasn't a result of the infection, but instead cuz it was lifeblood? stronger, larger. fits with the plasmified bugs we find in wormways

[whole holly]

but we also know how difficult it is for Weavers to have a child, Little Weavers should be able to exist in that amount

[whole holly]

Lifeblood was co-opted by radiance? how does one come to that conclusion

[gentle aspen]

You really cannot assert every infected bug imbibed lifeblood

the infection can also cause creatures to get larger

[limpid summit]

Furious vengeflies in infected crossroads are larger I think

No lifeblood around

[gentle aspen]

bodily reversion is a stretch I don’t believe that was ever shown

[whole holly]

but in later stages right? as result of resisting it

[whole holly]

i mean if Weavers were ascended by silk, and made sapient, Infection does reduce bug to instinct

[gentle aspen]

I know I’m just saying the explanation/speculation doesn’t make sense

[limpid summit]

I don’t think it was the silk that did it though

[whole holly]

me too

[limpid summit]

Or that affecting the mind would cause the weavers to “unravel”

Hmm

Actually it sounds cool when you think of it that way

What do you think

[gentle aspen]

I’m aware

[whole holly]

nothing does though, Little Weaver's are called Spiders, so maybe they just solely look like Weavers

[gentle aspen]

my thing is that the mentioned hybrids aren’t stated or implied to have non soul infused silk

that’s an assumption

little weavers as of right now are just
oversight

[foggy fractal]

🗣️ oversight song

[gentle aspen]

and the explanation posited doesn’t make much sense

[whole holly]

this is becoming more and more likely, Little Weavers are native spiders that simply look like primal weavers

[whole holly]

entire existence of Little Weavers don't make sense so go figure

[heavy gyro]

What about all the silk in the cradle that doesn't glow

[stray fog]

The cocoon is very bright

[whole holly]

oh, right

[heavy gyro]

Not the cocoon, the background silk and silk on the objects

[stray fog]

:shrug:

[whole holly]

background silk as just threads and dust, that accumulated over time i think

[heavy gyro]

Threads are silk tho

[stray fog]

All the fresh silk is glowy

Afaik

[heavy gyro]

Yeah it could be that old silk just doesn't glow and becomes grey

Like phantom

[whole holly]

Silk is Soul infused Spider Thread

[heavy gyro]

Which would explain the little weavers' webs

[whole holly]

that's really interesting

[stray fog]

It makes sense because soul and pale

[whole holly]

are Seals same As Runes

[stray fog]

Seals are a type of rune I thknk

Things like rune rage, and rune harps use non-seal runes

[whole holly]

yeah because Seals are made from Soul, Essence, Silk, Void too

[stray fog]

Void?

And essence?

[torpid spade]

This is based on the extreme physical similarities between the two. of course the primary evidence from HK is that of Lifeseeds and Lightseeds, but with Silksong's Plasmified creatures there's really close similarities. Take the Plasmidas and Brooding Mawlek, which are covered in bubbles and spew out extremely similar attacks. Plus, you have the gigantism of the Plasmids and Mantis Traitors. There's also the two's respective takeovers of an area, with vines and bubbles every which way. Though admittedly, the Infection has a lot more bubbles than vines, and lacks any of the butterfly wing/heart looking growths.
Though I think the best support is the logic that, if the Radiance is a complete dream-born god, how does it grow infection bubbles and vines? How is the infection a physical thing that can hurt the Knight and block its way, when such a big issue of the Infection was that it is a mental malady that the Knights of Hallownest could not fight traditionally? The bubbles and vines can't be only the Radiance's doing. And Lifeblood is right there with nearly identical properties and appearance.

[stray fog]

Oh

🤔

[stray fog]

The seal kinda looks like an everbloom

This is definitely a coincidence but Im going to say it anyway

[whole holly]

Hunter's Journal explains all of those away, Infection bloats as bugs resist infection, Lifeblood has similar effects, White Lady causes things to overgrow in her Garden including mantis traitors

[gentle aspen]

sigh

[heavy gyro]

It looks like the eye of cthulhu

[gentle aspen]

she is a dream god

[limpid summit]

Infection does bloat naturally but the traitors are likely something else because their whole physiology changes

[torpid spade]

what bugs are resisting the infection so much the entire crossroads can get covered in it?

[gentle aspen]

it can be expressed physically

[stray fog]

Yay another member for the lifeblood + infection headcanon club

[limpid summit]

It’s probably White Lady

[gentle aspen]

She made the moth tribe man

it isn’t like her creations are solely dream based

[torpid spade]

oh right LMAO

[whole holly]

crossroads get covered because of one of dreamers die

[limpid summit]

Rad isn’t co opting lifeblood by manifesting infection physically
That comes with her bloating single celled organisms and plants, and sweetening the air

[gentle aspen]

Also I want to remind you that lightseeds aren’t infected lifeseeds

lightseeds are bloated single celled organisms

[heavy gyro]

Could it be that all the traitors are male and thus look different, which would also explain why the traitors child looks like the regular mantises

[gentle aspen]

lifeseeds aren’t said to be single celled

[whole holly]

no, White Lady causes everything in her garden overgrow + infection

[heavy gyro]

White lady grow theory is kinda goofy

[sinful nimbus]

Lightseed Lifeseed connection is real you can't fight it

[stray fog]

Exactly

[gentle aspen]

okay

[limpid summit]

It doesn’t make sense for the Traitors to exclusively be male because the tribe couldn’t proliferate if it was just women

[sinful nimbus]

I wonder at the meaning of it all... or if I am perhaps imagining similarities where there are none.

[stray fog]

Do you believe in the connections between lifeblood and the infection

[gentle aspen]

I mean

they got infected

[torpid spade]

well I've been thoroughly schooled
I still think there's something there with how similar the two are
Perhaps the copycatting is going the other way? Begging sea of sorrow for more lifeblood lore

[gentle aspen]

they weren’t worrying about it

[gentle aspen]

I believe that seedlike creatures just manifest in this way

[limpid summit]

“They outlived their rivals and their civilization still stands”

[gentle aspen]

ergo both nyleth and isma were little seed shits like this

[limpid summit]

“But there’s no guys so they’re dying anyway”

[whole holly]

Though once our lands, a pale being lays claim to the caverns ahead. It may appear benevolent but it does not share our dream. , White Lady is not peaceful at all

[gentle aspen]

they didn’t though

[limpid summit]

A gender split would be tired

[gentle aspen]

They got infected

and kicked out

[limpid summit]

No this is the mantis lords

[gentle aspen]

mantis village still exists perfectly fine

[limpid summit]

It doesn’t make sense to paint the tribe as proud and surviving if they’re all just gonna die next generation

[gentle aspen]

oh

[limpid summit]

Yswim

[gentle aspen]

okay here’s a theory

[limpid summit]

I’m listening

[gentle aspen]

children can choose their sex

[sinful nimbus]

Every man is evil and has an impulsive, gullible nature.... What was TC trying to say?

[limpid summit]

Hmm

[gentle aspen]

Like when clown fish turn into women

[limpid summit]

Seems like HK isn’t a man’s story after all

[whole holly]

baseless

[gentle aspen]

Well they said the same thing in silksong sooooo

[whole holly]

guys difference is thematic

[torpid spade]

well no its a non binary's

[sinful nimbus]

Silksong shows why women are evil HK shows why men are evil

[gentle aspen]

anyways no it probably isn’t “all traitors are dudes all non traitors are chicks”

[whole holly]

plus everything overgrows in queen's garden, even Traitor Lord

[limpid summit]

Bro Mantis Petras and TL have the same DND

[sinful nimbus]

When are we getting a game focused around why non binary people are evil

[limpid summit]

Why is TL such a dud

[torpid spade]

pablo

[limpid summit]

He deserved more

[foggy fractal]

what will sea of sorrow show ?

[limpid summit]

How business are evil

[gentle aspen]

I do think as the infection went on it sorta made the child mantises evolve into Petras if that makes sense

[stray fog]

I thought your were team cherry
You should tell us

[limpid summit]

You don’t think Petras are WL joker

[whole holly]

why plantlife is evil

[gentle aspen]

if they are then she might be stupid

she did not evolve marmu but she evolved her opps???

was she suicidal???

Is she stupid?

[whole holly]

White Lady is just as evil, in Hollow Knight, she annexed part of Greenpath, she is about devotion or destruction

[foggy fractal]

it will show why Hornet is evil

[foggy fractal]

yes

[gentle aspen]

Slab already exists for that gng

[stray fog]

Slabfly journal

[heavy gyro]

Hornet will unleash her inner void

[foggy fractal]

tuff!

[stray fog]

Slabfly journal must be getting mentioned every single day at this point

[limpid summit]

Gotta keep Dryya on her toes

[whole holly]

Marmu's evolution can't be expressed by something that isn't in her genetic, she overgrows stuff not speeds up lifecycle of bug

[stray fog]

Its true this is why she is black here
Black = void /j

[gentle aspen]

Mossflies?

[limpid summit]

Maybe her growth powers were used more deliberately in the past but since she bound herself they just happen

[sinful nimbus]

Marmu was put down dawg

[whole holly]

wait Infection is back, light orange = infection

[gentle aspen]

“Think about the puppies, Lennie.”

[limpid summit]

Or I mean Marmu was a baby

[gentle aspen]

Fucked up

[limpid summit]

Maybe she legit wasn’t alive long enough to get that sweet broth

[stray fog]

Bronze = godseeker

[foggy fractal]

black = void
orange = infection
blue = lifeblood
interesting image...

[stray fog]

Some pixels are white

White = pale

[whole holly]

hornet is Plasmified, Infected, Pale Being with Void?

hornet is grimm reaper?

[stray fog]

The vignette on the submersible is kinda green

Green = unn

Anyway we should stop shitposting

[whole holly]

her needle is steel, steel = steelheart

[stray fog]

The mods will kill us

[torpid spade]

how do we know white lady has the ability to grow things? I think I missed that

[whole holly]

i don't know everything in her garden, but i think it is probably said in wanderer's journal if that's the case, we know that light of higher beings have effect on things

[torpid spade]

Did a quick skim of WL's wiki page there doesnt seem to be anything on there

[foggy fractal]

what for ? speaking facts ?

[gentle aspen]

it explains THK’s growth and the difference in flora and fauna in queen’s gardens vs greenpath

[heavy gyro]

Hornet will infuse void to a silkheart and obtain a voidheart

[gentle aspen]

• Marmu dialogue

[stray fog]

Yes

[torpid spade]

Ah, Marmu

[whole holly]

i can't find it either

[stray fog]

Wait this is the most detailed explanation we have on thk's growth

Assuming that The white lady did it

[limpid summit]

It’s not confirmed but there are multiple situations that suggest White Lady has some sort of ambient/controllable growth or evolution powers

[gentle aspen]

it’s the common theory

[stray fog]

Didn't know that

[gentle aspen]

Also explains WL’s massive growth in general

[torpid spade]

As far as I'm aware, isn't it just the flora, with the spiky vines? I mean Greenpath has the megafauna with the Durandoos

[gentle aspen]

mossflies have wings

regular moss guys don’t

Forgot their name

[limpid summit]

Mossflies have wings, Loodles have Mosscreep bodies with giant legs

Traitor Mantises exhibit unique characteristics

One of the twin ghosts in QG is taller and growing in weird places though that could just be like Cordyceps stuff

[foggy fractal]

mosscreep ?

[torpid spade]

"mosscreep body" doesnt really mean much when its literally just a bush

[stray fog]

Mosscreep my beloved

[gentle aspen]

Yeah

[gentle aspen]

You can see their bodies when you kill them

no wings

[torpid spade]

Oh wow

Huh

That's a really cool detail actually

[foggy fractal]

mosscreep corpse and loodle corpse

[whole holly]

White Lady is really unique as Pale Being, she is Root, Pale King is a Wyrm and Grand Mother Silk is Spider Lady??

[normal imp]

ok would you rather be a haunting victim or an infection victim (choose your prefered flavour)

[stray fog]

Haunting

Infection is lowkey disgusting

I don't want orange liquid inside me

[normal imp]

ok if you had to be infected which flavour would you choose

[stray fog]

Wdym?

[normal imp]

its like ice cream either chocolate or vanilla

[foggy fractal]

gms is just silk lowkey

[rapid bloom]

Haunting

You all realize that the Infection can literally alter your being and you are in a state of pain constantly, no?

Unless you absorb it willingly, which can make you somewhat sane, but not so sane

[whole holly]

I mean I would prefer to be haunted but not the white ward victims

[normal imp]

ok like I asked that guy if you were infected which flavour are you choosing

[whole holly]

Absorb it? Moss Prophet embraces it

[gentle aspen]

not really
the ending of the infection always leads to death

[rapid bloom]

No, look at the Mantises that took it

[normal imp]

so how about you which flavour

[rapid bloom]

But of course

[normal imp]

hey man

[gentle aspen]

yes, and they got their asses kicked by the non infected ones and kicked out

[whole holly]

Haunting

[gentle aspen]

And their bodies bloated and changed

[normal imp]

no the flavour of infected

[rapid bloom]

Can you blame them? The Mantis Lords have that much aura

[gentle aspen]

I can they’re actual frauds

[twin dragon]

"Strength" btw

glorified handicapped mantises

[gentle aspen]

Imagine being such a bitch that you take in the infection and still get kicked out

traitor mantises were really that weak

[whole holly]

I don’t get it what flavors are there

[normal imp]

blueberry and orange

[twin dragon]

Tbf they could've been just outnumbered, yknow, the good old strat to killing anything

[rapid bloom]

They had one Lord infected, while the non-infected ones outnumbered them. Only one fourth of the Mantises ended up embracing the infection

[whole holly]

Blueberry I guess

[twin dragon]

which they prob were

[normal imp]

yea me too

[gentle aspen]

I mean
the only real number difference we see are the lords

aside from that we don’t know the population diff

[twin dragon]

Yeah but i guess we can deduce that the infected were minority

one lord had following after all

[gentle aspen]

minority you say

[whole holly]

I mean traitors inhabit smaller portion of Hallownest territory

[twin dragon]

[whole holly]

Mantis Lords have real territory, Traitors have some queen’s garden territory

[normal imp]

yea I believe the traitors are a bit more sparse then the regulars but stronger

[gentle aspen]

well, my sticking point is that I don't think it was divided evenly.

It was like minded invididuals that each went to the side that they felt benefitted themselves

[twin dragon]

it wasn't divided evenly yeah

[rapid bloom]

One fourth is infected, let's keep it at that

[gentle aspen]

as opposed to "everyone under this lord went with them"
I think if there was population differences it wouldn't be clear cut

[twin dragon]

I mean tbf that doesn't help traitor lord in the slightest

[rapid bloom]

Wrong reply

End me

[gentle aspen]

not enough to say "yeah they got population gapped"

[rapid bloom]

[normal imp]

bug segregation my faviorite

[stray fog]

Blueberry
Atleast I'll get high before I become a zombie

[whole holly]

It’s okay

[twin dragon]

Nika you fucking LOVE that arrow

[stray fog]

Lmao

[whole holly]

It is such simple way to express things

[normal imp]

how about green

[stray fog]

What's the green infection

[whole holly]

?

[normal imp]

thats my faviorite infection

[gentle aspen]

its called green humor buddy

[twin dragon]

moss

[stray fog]

The coronavirus or something?

[whole holly]

Unnfection

[normal imp]

covid isnt fucking greeny m8t

[whole holly]

What is????????

Grubberfly infection

[normal imp]

your mother....... nature

[stray fog]

Nature infection?

Rabies

[normal imp]

Unn is coming and hes coming WITH A VENGANCE

[whole holly]

Is that something you have? That’s infection?

[whole holly]

She is a woman

She is most likely dead

[stray fog]

Why

[normal imp]

did you just ASSUME HER GENDER

[whole holly]

I don’t know her slumber might be so deep she will never wake up

[whole holly]

I know her gender, are you unnfected

[stray fog]

Gms was in a slumber for a very long time too

[rapid bloom]

She is not dead, her power has waned

[whole holly]

But her strength is gone, Unn needs something like mosskin

[whole holly]

Yeah but she will not regain it to start another infection

[rapid bloom]

Unn? Infection?

[whole holly]

Somebody suggested it, don’t blame me

[rapid bloom]

She's like, the least harmful higher being

[whole holly]

I know but someone thinks she is coming with revenge

[rapid bloom]

Because all she desires in the end is for her children to heed her call

[rapid bloom]

She is not as merciless as the Radiance

[whole holly]

And join her dream but they died

[whole holly]

I know dude

[rapid bloom]

And there is no way we know much

[rapid bloom]

Dead?

The Mosskin are dead?

[whole holly]

I think

[normal imp]

what about your thoughts on the covid infection

[rapid bloom]

They cannot heed her call

That does not mean they died

[rugged storm]

hmm, driftlin needolin diaglogue says "Mother, mother, gleam so brightly..."

[whole holly]

After games even they died from infection, team cherry said it in AMA I think I think it was common knowledge

[gentle aspen]

yes
their mother seems to be fayforn

[whole holly]

Fayforn most likely

[stray fog]

Are they saying that their mother is gleaming, or are they talking about gms (because shes pale)?

[rugged storm]

imagine if there was a bilewater "fayforn" for the mothleaf lagnia

[normal imp]

so what was the conducter romiro talking about again

like what did it mean

[rapid bloom]

In Pharloom's Folly?

[normal imp]

well isnt that the only thing related to him

yes anyways

[rapid bloom]

The Conductors know about the true purpose of the Citadel

He was talking about GMS

There are chances that the Conductor Romino is the first ever Conductor

But this is wild speculation

[normal imp]

ok so from what I can see conducters like head operaters of whiteward and the like policy makers who ran the citadel including inforcing the law. The vaultkeepers were the religous guys keeping the scrolls and reading them so the bugs would be fervent enough to continue the song. Finally the architects just built the whole place including the mechanisms and the structure itself

also the flies were on jail duty

probably because their kind leaked silksong

[edgy nebula]

architects didnt build the citadel i dont think

weavers built it, conductors goldified it

[normal imp]

nah their motif could not possibly change this much no matter how smart they are

[rapid bloom]

So

The Conductors were kings of the Citadel, to put it more bluntly

But they were easily brought down by their own greed

[normal imp]

kind of like an interconnected group of royal families

[rapid bloom]

With each Conductor that came and went, they became greedier

They eventually stopped filling in the Choir, which in turn caused the Haunting to happen

The last Conductors' weakened state serves as a grim contrast to what we have heard of them so far

[normal imp]

just curious do you think the flies leaked silksong

[rapid bloom]

They are portrayed as unforgiving and strong

Yet Ballador was unlike that when we met him

[rapid bloom]

Flies?

[normal imp]

yea the guys in the slab thats their sin mabye

[normal imp]

also just want to say more like second to last haunted or not they are still somewhat alive and very strong

[rapid bloom]

Their sin was forgotten by time itself, let alone others

No one can tell what they did

Who knows, maybe they were among the few that rebelled against the Citadel

[normal imp]

well what other sin could warrent such a fate

[rapid bloom]

The Citadel existed for a very long time

Surely they had to deal with rebels

[normal imp]

btw do you think they used last sinner for slave labour

[rapid bloom]

No

You cannot tell me that the First Sinner could be used

[normal imp]

huh ok

I think they did

[rapid bloom]

They are a Weaver

[gentle aspen]

no

[rapid bloom]

Plus, she is dangerous

[normal imp]

a captured one

[gentle aspen]

weavers are the ones who made the citadel they wouldn't make one of their own do slave labor

[whole holly]

not at all

[gentle aspen]

furthermore she was locked in prison for apostasy

[rapid bloom]

Did you fight her?

[gentle aspen]

they would not have her be a slave and possibly tell other slaves of the truth

[rapid bloom]

I don't think you can make that a slave

[normal imp]

the jailcell contradicts this

[rapid bloom]

It literally has 4 seals

[whole holly]

yea

[whole holly]

she is sealed

[rapid bloom]

She cannot work for anyone

[gentle aspen]

you mean the locked and sealed jail cell?

[rapid bloom]

She was put in one of the darkest corners of the Slab

[gentle aspen]

yeah bro an imprisoned and sealed person is definitely gonna be a slave

be fr

[rapid bloom]

I appreciate your takes but BDSM?😭

[normal imp]

well mabye its a regular open and close

[whole holly]

First Sinner is Sealed like Hollow Knight, her absolution is denied

[rapid bloom]

Brudda