sk-lore

[torpid spade]

really?

[stray fog]

" ...For her light... eternal... our song sustains..."

[torpid spade]

Huh

[stray fog]

Im not sure if its about sustaining their song or sustaining gms

[whole holly]

Needolin is cute silk string instrument, weavers used Harp it seems

[whole holly]

our song sustains... might mean it sustains something

but Pale Being are about Devotion or Destruction

[stray fog]

"Sustain" in music (atleast for a piano) means that you press and hold a note for longer than normal

[torpid spade]

unless those ... mean we're missing words which I doubt, that is basically saying the song sustains her light eternal

[whole holly]

Weavers and Mothkin are analogous, it is shame we don't see Mothkin and Mosskin lore fleshed out

it could have been cooler if we saw Mosskin with unique abilities, like how Mothkin shaped Dreams

Shamans and Weavers Control Soul

[stray fog]

The ones in greenpath or in pharloom's moss areas?

[whole holly]

guys there could have been Dreamcatcher item in Silksong made with silk that could have doubled as Stringer instrument and it would have been cooler

[stray fog]

I assume greenpath because the sk ones are barely sapient

[whole holly]

Unn's Mosskin, it doesn't make sense for Pharloom, why would i mean those

[whole holly]

unless Moss Druid does something interesting enough i guess

[whole holly]

it could have been silk/string instrument, not necessarily dreamcatcher, but it would still be cooler than Needolin

[whole holly]

TC repurposes everything but without cool aspects

[stray fog]

They kidnapped her so that gms could absorb her

[whole holly]

Silk has no unique stuff aside Runes i guess

[stray fog]

Healing properties

[whole holly]

yeah, that is kind of messed up

[whole holly]

that is trait inherited from Soul

[hexed elk]

oh alright, wait about silk that pharloom have shortage of it?

[whole holly]

not exactly , more like greed for silk and control by silk

[hexed elk]

oh

[whole holly]

it is strategic resource

[whole holly]

i am starting to think that runes are weaver term for seals

[whole holly]

because Seals and Runes seem to be one and same, Silk/Soul constructs that have multiple purposes

[twin dragon]

I mean we get to see another shape of soul, that's pretty cool

genuinely what do you want silk to be

[whole holly]

i wanted it to have Silk Magic that is not Merger of Essence/Song/Soul Magic with a costume, Silk can have many thing that is unique to it and could have been explored, in real life Spider Webs are made of Silk, that could have been incorporated theme into Silk magic

[twin dragon]

It is incorporated into silk magic, the whole ancient arts thing has hornet moving around with it

[twin dragon]

Soul is related to essence, so silk memories have to do something with it, even if we don't have direct access to it

[whole holly]

lot of things like, traps, garments and silk in real life was prized possetion

[twin dragon]

Would've been cool if soul snare was a giant web tbf

and you could keep the tool after doing the quest

even though its shit

maybe

havent used it much

Also gms uses silk in a few ways

like the ensnare is pretty cool

[whole holly]

Soul Essence relation is lazy connection because outside of Silksong, it requires special circumstance such as Dream Weider Charm and Dream Nail, fact that Shaman + Silk + Song Magic can just do that without any confirmed connection to essence is weird

[whole holly]

we can deduce that song is connected to essence but we have to deduce that for game worldbuilding and lore as well as gameplay to make sense

[twin dragon]

It could be another way to extract essence from silk

shamans are the experts of soul after all (aside from pale hbs)

Like we've seen how song can do a bunch of shit

[whole holly]

Elegy of Deep and Sylphsong are only vague connection to memories and essence

[twin dragon]

Its as vague as the soul and essence connection in the first game

[low pilot]

Well pale hbs liek radiance use soul to enthrall others like how gms uses silk

[twin dragon]

we don't get much on that

[whole holly]

yeah but connect it to essence, or flesh it out

[low pilot]

Sylph is also mentioned in pale oil and by EVA

[twin dragon]

At that point it would've been a straight up reeintroduction of an element, but they did that with the void so hey

[whole holly]

not really gameplay makes sense and charm mechanic confirms it at least, as well as dream nail

[twin dragon]

Dream nail giving you soul is extremely vague

[whole holly]

if Silk is different medium of Soul, Song could have been another medium to connect to Dreams/Memories/Essence i guess but it is not fleshed out at all

[low pilot]

Oh yah charm notches r interesting and implies soul levels of sort like how crests work

[twin dragon]

I mean song is what you want it to be

[whole holly]

but after you acquire Dream Wielder it makes sense

[twin dragon]

Needolin's a thing

[twin dragon]

From the description?

Gameplay wise it doesn't change much

[whole holly]

it is but not in way that is equally fleshed out as silk's connection to soul

[twin dragon]

Silk IS soul

[whole holly]

yeah, i know....

[twin dragon]

It's not a separate element that needs to be connected

it's soul with extra steps

[low pilot]

Silk is a version of soul unique to gms also the source of SILK not soul

[whole holly]

i know that though but my point is that it could have been just as fleshed out as song

[twin dragon]

Silk IS soul taking a different shape

[twin dragon]

why did you self react...

[whole holly]

we get it

[low pilot]

Bingo

[low pilot]

Idk

[twin dragon]

Song is already a big part of the game, though needolin could've had smt like a songbook of sorts, where you could take the songs of npcs and they had a special effect of some sorts

[low pilot]

So if we can connect essence to may form of soul or soul itself it would work

[craggy smelt]

wonder if song and Godseeker resonance is similar at all... there's the sound aspect to both

[twin dragon]

The first game also left the void in the corner

It genuinely feels irrelevant for a big part of the game

[low pilot]

Well the needling don’t work on things like surface guys that don’t have silk

[low pilot]

That seems plausible

[craggy smelt]

it is seeeecret and mysterious

[whole holly]

Song lorewise yes, but gameplay wise not really or worldbuildling wise, it is just vague

[low pilot]

But the needolin works on locations on the surface still

[whole holly]

and Greyroot and Fayforn, which we know are capable of communicating and thinking

[twin dragon]

The worldbuilding with it is also done pretty well i'd say, there are lots of mechanisms that use song and has its effects

[low pilot]

I knew greyroot but it don’t work for fayforn either?

[twin dragon]

Greyroot straight up could be barely sentient

[low pilot]

Yah

[whole holly]

it is more Weaver related which is great but it is weaker than rest of skills, it feels like just another ancestral art when Song and Silk are supposedly equally important to game

[low pilot]

Well it’s called the citadel of song I’m pretty sure

[whole holly]

barely sentient beings don't communicate how do you explain no thoughts --> talking

[twin dragon]

No? The whole shtick with song is that basically anyone has it's own way to utilize it

i'd say

[twin dragon]

Capable of thought but not a very complex one

yknow

[whole holly]

aside from Threefold Melody and Needolin, we don't see it's importance in game, Sharka's Master doesn't even give needolin dialogue

[low pilot]

It’s like a super diverse form of soul manipulation liek with karmelitta using it to delay the haunting

[whole holly]

yea but it is important to weavers

[low pilot]

He’s also from outside the citadel and is dying

[twin dragon]

Needolin is silk dependant so i'd assume that's why

[whole holly]

and Khan's Coral Tower was Choral Tower and Nyleth was The Voice that empowered Seth, it is just gone from game

[twin dragon]

Karmelita used song to ward off the haunting

[whole holly]

that's lame though, Song ability that barely mimics Essence Mechanic that is Dependent of Silk which is Version of Soul is lame, and it doesn't work when Silk is not present? that's less impacting than Dream Nail

[low pilot]

Song is a lesser form of soul manipulation

[whole holly]

lame way to do so

[low pilot]

Yah but still

[whole holly]

Song has infinitely more potential that that, i hope she gets actual instrument as key item that replaces Needolin same way Sharka's Rings replace Hornet's Battle Cry or warn i guess

[whole holly]

and solidify it's connection to Song or Essence Magic i guess

[craggy smelt]

needolitar

[whole holly]

ew

[craggy smelt]

electric needolitar

[twin dragon]

Acceeding memories through different means is fine, having straight up essence back wouldn't really be very creative

[craggy smelt]

I would like some lore in Sea of Sorrow that addresses dream realm stuff
find out where tf this lifeblood stuff comes from originally

[twin dragon]

Needolin extension, not replacement

[twin dragon]

WHAT is with ppl thinking sea of sorrow will have lifeblood

PLEASE

dont

[whole holly]

it should be dream catcher that doubles as string instrument if Team Cherry wants to satisfy me and also have betters effect, reading sharka's mother's mind, replacing tuning fork to call fayforn and reading her mind and so on

[twin dragon]

I mean TC doesn't have to satisfy you lmao

[craggy smelt]

sorry, Plasmium

[whole holly]

scrapped content it draws from suggests it

[twin dragon]

WHY do you think as such

barnacle bay had nothing to do w lifeblood iirc??

[whole holly]

i know, but still, i can express criticism, i know i am not the only one

[craggy smelt]

plasmium was said to have originally been discovered in 'salt-stricken waters', a term that has been used in Sea of Sorrow stuff

[twin dragon]

Yknow

[whole holly]

Lifeblood Spire was there in Cut content i think

[twin dragon]

act 3 could've been more song related

[craggy smelt]

also the original maps had a 'Lifeblood Spire' sketch that very much looks like the stormy spire shown in the trailer

[twin dragon]

oh my fucking god

WE'RE DONE WITH LIFEBLOOD

STOP

[whole holly]

less void more song please, also more lifeblood

[twin dragon]

WORMWAYS IS ENOUGH OF AN EXPANSION!!!

[craggy smelt]

so get ready for Sea of Sorrow to have tons of lifeblood stuff!
toot toot! All aboard the Lifeblood Train!

or I guess like, the lifeblood ship

fog horn nosies

[whole holly]

Lifeblood is basically infection you want TC to ignore it?

[twin dragon]

The og lifeblood dlc had nothing to do w lifeblood

mostly

[whole holly]

they are making up for that clearly

[twin dragon]

Its solidly explained

[twin dragon]

This time i'd like some more QoL changes ngl

ESPECIALLY for act 3

[craggy smelt]

speaking of Void, Void silk reacting to song is interesting
I guess it's fitting that Void dislikes music as much as it does strong light

it's a silence as well as a darkness

[whole holly]

nothing explains what's behind it though, it is definitely not natural occurrence given it's HK lore

[twin dragon]

I've always seen it as the strings moving the void around

or the void feeling a presence and jumping to it

[twin dragon]

even then it's not a very relevant element

[whole holly]

i agree, it is not relevant to pharloom, they should have done that in actual Lifeblood DLC of HK

[craggy smelt]

now is the chance to fix that horrible mistake

expand lifeblood lore, maybe get some dream realm stuff

[twin dragon]

Yeah

[twin dragon]

ffs they better focus on act 3

[craggy smelt]

or its just Zylotol's master frankensteining shit back to life

[whole holly]

too late, unless we ward it off with song and void

[twin dragon]

I really think the void could work and has interesting symbolisms

[whole holly]

idk about that

[craggy smelt]

more stuff to do in Act 3 would be welcome
I wonder though how doing Zy's quests might affect the storyline with his master

[twin dragon]

But there's no foreshadowing to it whatsoever

[whole holly]

Void: how to defeat Higher Being tutorial

[craggy smelt]

Void: one trick to rid your kingdom of higher beings
a trick they hate

[twin dragon]

Hbs trying to take over but i pull out my concealed void carry:

[whole holly]

GRWM : heres how to defeat god for some reason, first we take void which is one trick pony for that, they we lure Higher Being to it and voila, your Higher Being is gone

[craggy smelt]

we're less than a day away from the year Sea of Sorrow will release (maybe)
the waiting...
the waiting is all...

[whole holly]

why isn't there different solution

it is void every single time

[whole holly]

only if Radiance and GMS had Everbloom...

[twin dragon]

Also what's with the everbloom from memory extraction

[craggy smelt]

I do think Void is best used sparingly and kept mysterious - felt over-exposed in Silksong when it erupts absolutely everywhere
but it was still neat to see what a widespread outbreak looks like

[twin dragon]

how does that work

[whole holly]

was Pale King assassinated by Steel Assassin Sharpe? how did he die?

[halcyon merlin]

the different solution is hornet binding gms

and the cursed thing doing its curse things

[whole holly]

i know that, but context was killing about higher beings not replacing them

context is right there

[twin dragon]

Weavenest atla should've had the void tendrils rune that's in the abyss tbf

[craggy smelt]

things can be created from dreams(memories), made real
if you make a memory of a thing real, is it not the thing itself?

[halcyon merlin]

replacing them is kinda the same as killing them

[craggy smelt]

got 'em for copyright violation for stealing buzzsaws from City of Steel (PK had no original ideas)

[twin dragon]

since they seemingly made soul snare use the void, especially if they're been down there

[whole holly]

we are explicitly not talking about it though

[twin dragon]

the weavers i mean

[twin dragon]

They're located in a different plane of existence, the dream realm

[whole holly]

also how are Rune different that Seals anyways?

[craggy smelt]

the Void part might've been added by the snails though

[twin dragon]

doe the knight got the dream nail there soo

i guess it's feasible

through bullshit magic

[whole holly]

is it Same different between Bind and Focus?

[twin dragon]

How would they realistically do that

the mechanism is weaver made

[craggy smelt]

I think rune is the official term for those things
we always called them seals just because the Seal of BInding was like the only rune we had an official name for

[twin dragon]

Soul portal or wtv

[whole holly]

it would have more impactful if hornet defeated GMS without Void by Silk Snare

[twin dragon]

She already does that my guy

weaver queen

she even does that being sick as shit

[dire lynx]

the snare was designed "to bind her tight" the snails probably made the portal to deal with her after incapacitation

[whole holly]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Seals they also seem to be made of essence, silk, soul i guess even void in Abyss

[whole holly]

i mean with Snare Setter and Without void

[craggy smelt]

the Snare Setter seems like the basis for the 'trapping/binding' part, the snails just tooled it up with Soul magic, which can summon the Void ig?
Void is drawn to Soul, maybe with the right Soul spell you can call it up out of the Abyss
(steel society also has some way to call up the Void and it uses corpses, maybe it's also Soul-based)

[twin dragon]

That would change act 3

Entirely

honestly i'd like to see that

But what would the final boss of such act 3 be

[twin dragon]

It seemed to be some sort of portal

[torpid spade]

yeah seems the best if not only way to kill pale beings is to chuck void at them (I mean unless they're stupid enough to exist solely in a forgettable dream realm)
PK seems to have died to void as well, considering how dim his throne room is and the void particles swirling around

[dire lynx]

PK did not die of void

[craggy smelt]

he died of sad

[torpid spade]

whats that shit doing in his dream realm

[whole holly]

PK death was seemingly because of Void

[craggy smelt]

he brought a lot of his Void constructs with him

[dire lynx]

the kingmoulds

and wingsmoulds

[torpid spade]

that are all dead specifically outside his throne room? there are none with him

[whole holly]

you wouldn't bring in your room though if you knew it was toxic

[craggy smelt]

hoenstly, we don't really know how he died
the kingsmoulds may have broken down after he died and leaked the Void
maybe he killed himself with the Void
maybe he lost control of it in his depression and just let it end him

[whole holly]

Void Particles were drawn to him, but he would be able to resist it though

[craggy smelt]

Void shouldn't have been a danger to a powerful pale being without being unified, given how bright light suppresses it
at least in the first game

I guess it has no problem nomming Silk, even with it seemingly having no unifying will to do so

[whole holly]

that makes sense, suicide is most likely answer

[craggy smelt]

maybe the spell did it?

[dire lynx]

there is no sign of void eyes from pk, which we see in actual void deaths

[torpid spade]

I mean tbf it had trouble noming the silk god and that was when she was miles deep in it

[craggy smelt]

I always preferred the idea that he just sort've withered away in despair, extinguishing himself via god-powered depression

[twin dragon]

Silk is in an extremely weakened state and got her ass kicked, plus she's directly fed to the void

[craggy smelt]

yeah, that's true

[whole holly]

if he can control how bright he is or just let himself go

[whole holly]

she does have pale light just not enough to suppress void

[twin dragon]

That's what im saying

She doesn't glow as much due to her weakened state

[whole holly]

if Weaver's Song sustained her light, it would make so much sense

[whole holly]

but TC scrapped lot of Song stuff

[craggy smelt]

the cutscenes of the Weavers playing harps is canon, so that part probably still holds

song was her power, like how Radiance lived in the dreams of bugs, or how PK wanted the devotion of uplifted minds

[torpid spade]

Well that song hasn't been played in a long while. Been replaced with Threefold

[whole holly]

yeah i know, but implications are not as obvious

[craggy smelt]

also would make sense with how song was used to seal her - the Weavers changed the song on her to one of binding

[whole holly]

yeah, that's song that made her asleep

[twin dragon]

That's a cool take tbf

I've seen it as a way of worship dedicated to gms

as higher beings become more powerful based on their worship

[zinc dagger]

Okay, so I think I got a solid gist of Xero's past (at least in my opinion). Please don't run me over if my version of Xero's possible lore offends you.

So it starts off in Pharloom. Khann sends out few of his highly trained soldiers out to find new kingdoms. Xero, Garro, Magnus, etc. as they eventually reached Hallownest, they're met by the Pale King. At first, they were all skeptical about taking up PK's offer of serving under him but they eventually agreed. Despite that, Xero was the only one to secretly dislike the offer they ended up taking but kept that thought to himself.

The battle of the Black Wyrm happened and Garro and Magnus met their ends there, unfortunately. That's why they're found in the spirits glade, honouring them for their efforts in battle.

Then, came the meeting regarding the infection spreading and something about a plague. One fateful night after that meeting, Xero dreams of ending the infection himself, which turns out to be the radiance secretly manipulating him. After several nights of the same thing, he ends up falling for her manipulation and attempts to assassinate the king himself, thinking that killing the king will stop the infection. The radiance is eventually able to take full control over Xero and attempts at it, but fails to do so. As punishment, he's sentenced to execution the very next day. But as they finished that, the pale king decides to have him buried within the Resting Grounds as a reminder and a warning to any bugs who pass and have the thought to even attempt the same feat.

Cursed are those who turn against the king...

Any opinions related to this are completely fine to share.

I was told to put this here so be it

[craggy smelt]

or something like that, a lot of them seem to desire or require it

[whole holly]

they should have made Father of Flame metal themed with concert themes soo, musical sacrifice ritual would be so cool

[twin dragon]

sm1 mentions it, forgot though

[craggy smelt]

man, people already argue that FotF is connected to Grimm Troupe enough, we don't need a metal track adding to that

[zinc dagger]

I'm smurt af (clueless)

[whole holly]

oh, yeah, that's true, god forbids there are multiple flames in Hollow Knight universe

[twin dragon]

Vessel zote all over again

[stray fog]

Who is magnus

[craggy smelt]

ghost crab

[stray fog]

Garro and magnus are probably from karak, but I don't think xero is from karak

[whole holly]

i hope Blue Child Joni gets reanimated by Lifeblood, and becomes new Player Character in third game

[whole holly]

she has more chance than Lace

/jk

[craggy smelt]

I guess if Godseeker really did travel from Pharloom's surface to Hallownest, some of the karak could have also?

[craggy smelt]

i saw some art on twitter about a lifeblood character

[whole holly]

it would have been easier for Karaks presumably

[craggy smelt]

(it was cute)

[oak palm]

Xero does not look like a Karak at all

[dire lynx]

i dont really see magnus either, his anatomy doesnt line up with the karaka

[stray fog]

Yak said that hes a crab, which is what convinced me

And karak enemies have anatomies that are appreciably different from each other

[whole holly]

caspian seems like different kinda crab too

[dire lynx]

like, they arent very similar beyond having red

[craggy smelt]

garro's the most karak-like guy

[stray fog]

Yes

[dire lynx]

that guy is for sure, he even has the right weapon style

[stray fog]

Im 97% sure about Garro being a karak guy

[whole holly]

by that logic she has to be radiance's child

[craggy smelt]

it makes sense!

[whole holly]

she actually talks about Higher Beings at least: Are you admiring my fabulous markings? I'm of a distinguished species you see, though I've not seen another like me for the longest time.

You don't seem to bear the markings of rank, though you bear no markings of a lower form.

What are you? Do tell me. Are you a higher being or just another lowly grub?

[craggy smelt]

was just gonna say

but i spared myself the shame of the snail

[stray fog]

Grub slander

[whole holly]

little do they know Grubberfly has Holy energy

[zinc dagger]

I dunno man, I just like a funny looking bug with not much lore, might as well get creative with it.

[fresh badger]

In fairness she's probably using it the way the kings pass tablets do: calling bugs uplifted by pk's beacon 'higher beings'

[whole holly]

but i think their story is about relatively weaker defenseless beings attaining power

[craggy smelt]

look at this fuckin guy, he's fat and red

sort of

[stray fog]

No armour though

[whole holly]

referring to status but even that is conflated with divinity

[whole holly]

by game's lore

[stray fog]

I take my words back about michael being a karak soldier

[dire lynx]

yeah, but lore is based on evidence, i agree with the narrative you gave beyond pharloom and the blackwyrm though

[stray fog]

Or whatever his name was

[zinc dagger]

Michael?? 😭

[stray fog]

The crab

[dire lynx]

magnus

[zinc dagger]

I kinda just thought that since Xero is the only one that isn't buried within the spirits glade, I assumed that Garro and Magnus died an honourable death or something like that

[whole holly]

this guys has aciding touch just like bugs like spit squit , they gotta be same

[stray fog]

Xero betrayed the king

[zinc dagger]

He did say something about his acid

Or was that someone else

[zinc dagger]

Yew

[whole holly]

yeah, i did say that

[whole holly]

and got ascended by pale king's beacon i guess

[fresh badger]

Iselda's uncle

[whole holly]

lol this is joke though

[whole holly]

i thought you meant isma because acid for second

[stray fog]

This one looks more like iseldas uncle

[fresh badger]

vro what

[craggy smelt]

Marissa's in here, do we think that maybe she had some kind of song magic? Could all music be magical? I wonder... not a lot of singers in Hallownest
No Eyes also sings and has weird ghost powers

[zinc dagger]

On the contrary

Markoth
Is he wearing a helmet or is the pointy horns thing his head?

[stray fog]

I got confused between bretta and iselda

I thought iselda was the one with zote

[dire lynx]

horns

[whole holly]

i mean her voice is magical, implications are weak unless Team Cherry decides to expand on it

[zinc dagger]

Zote did NOT pull that baddie

[fresh badger]

I mean maybe her song had some magic to do with pleasure/easing people based on her location I guess?

[dire lynx]

or antennae i suppose

[craggy smelt]

most other moths seem to have those floppy feathery antenna, it might be a helmet

[zinc dagger]

Maybe he has some kind of scar on his face he's ashamed of that he wears it to cover it?
Or maybe it's fashion?
Or he just wants to wear a helmet?

[stray fog]

Helmet for defense

[craggy smelt]

he was a rare warrior moth, might've been part of his battle gear

[fresh badger]

On a sidenote, its really cool I think how the music works in the CoT elevator shaft to AB. Like, I'm 1000% taking that as more evidence for void being assiciated with silence, especially how Marisa's song cuts out the instant you see void and the environment turns grey

[stray fog]

No voice to cry

[dire lynx]

thistlewind has no armour and his head looks almost identical, i just think its a stylistic difference

[craggy smelt]

I say that works - it's aligned with silence a couple times ("In silence your voice,")

[craggy smelt]

forgot his helmet, it's how he died

[zinc dagger]

These are fire designs still

[dire lynx]

for sure

[zinc dagger]

As far as I can remember, Galien is the one with actual full lore that got cut short
I think

[dire lynx]

also, in the waterart ari did, you can see pretty clearly its his head

[zinc dagger]

Wait, this is so cute. where is this??

[dire lynx]

artwork done for backer characters from a certain tier

[craggy smelt]

he'd be unique among moths then
but it's not always easy to tell what's a face and what's a mask

[zinc dagger]

He's not all fluff under that cloak thing then

[dire lynx]

if he wore a mask hed still be unique, if not more than just having hard antennae

[zinc dagger]

I still find him very cute

Or cool

[dire lynx]

some more water colours

[zinc dagger]

No eyes!!
She so pretty 🥺💖

[whole holly]

guys are Grubs lowly beings or holy beings, i don't get it

is this Deepnest King of honored caste:

"I'll see you soon," she said, though that was long ago. I wonder where she went?

Go bother someone else. You're not the one I'm waiting for. She was prolly herrah

to be fair he doesn't even look like Deepnest Spiders, he vaguelly resembles one

he doesn't even look honored

[ionic stump]

I think it’s just a very thick helmet

The horns might be concealing his antennae

[dire lynx]

https://x.com/FernShawArt/status/2006020946805592367

Fern (@FernShawArt)

An interesting thing about Lace and Hornet's relationship is that we don't know how their relationship will evolve. We don't know if they'll be Friends, Lovers or anything

There is only ONE thing we know for sure

Hornet will be Lace's caregiver
And that implies a LOT of trust

X · Dec 30, 2025, 3:13 PM

kill lacenetters plz

[whole holly]

Hornet x Eva is better and canon ship, one has explored world, other hasn't, they are perfect for each other

[cedar skiff]

https://tenor.com/view/gms-grand-mother-silk-silksong-hornet-lace-gif-12555888595701384440

never ask a lacenet fan how their mid ass ship ties into the narrative whatsoever

[stray fog]

Someone on reddit commented that lace is a child and they got -10 votes

And the original post on which they were commenting was highly inappropriate, especially since lace is a child

[dire lynx]

"b-b-but muh character arc"

[stray fog]

It wasn't even a character arc thing
It was a smash or pass style post

[dire lynx]

genuinely outrageous how ignorant yuri "people" are to justify their dogass ships

[sinful nimbus]

Why is people in quotes

Like its an unfortunate gross ship but 🤨

[dire lynx]

they arent real

"nah bro shes an adult"

they act like AI,
-two females in media
-must ship 🤖

[sonic sleet]

since it's 2026 for some people already when will sea of sorrow release technically there is 1 in 365 chance of it releasing today/tomorrow

[stray fog]

The copium begins again...

[cedar skiff]

the actual honest to god evidence is the fact that the journal narration refers to lace as a child

like.. not the hornet part

you can kinda sort of say every characters unreliable on laces nature other than lace herself but if the omnipresent narrator wants to hammer in shes a child i think that just might be the case

[spark valve]

lace herself also says it

but also ignoring characters just because they say something you don't want to be true and not because anything actually indicates they're wrong is uh

something

[swift needle]

the grimm troupe was aware of the pk

troupe master grimm dream nail dialouge

[rapid bloom]

Heck yeah, release a news channel with daily updates on Sea of Sorrow!

[fervent sigil]

do mossgrubs do metamorphosis?

[sonic sleet]

Males go from small to big Females too but they have wings

[oak palm]

Wrong

Massive mossgrubs are unnatural

[whole holly]

very interesting, i wonder if they have lair of their own they they reside in, before or after going to dying kingdom

they have seals/runes of their own too

it would be so interesting to see and getting fleshed out

[ionic stump]

Massive mossgrubs were bred to be fat

hornet even supports artificial breeding of spineless mossgrubs

[sonic sleet]

Yeah I forgot about that journal entry still don't know why citadel did that breeding thing

[ionic stump]

Probably their twisted view of “preservation”

It’s like making wagyu beef from cows

Or foie gras

The memorium is more like a shitty museum with unethical zoo reserves if anything

[edgy nebula]

alas, media literacy is dead

[whole holly]

they failed preserving verdania, possibly on purpose, there is only plant life

guys is Palestag plant being like Isma and Nyleth?

[jovial peak]

Happy new year awoo

[whole holly]

i don't think that's true

Myth made real in memory. The creature seemed completely at one with the flora around it. Did it ever truly exist as I have seen it?

interesting

[twin dragon]

that's what i thought

finally

my take gettin bread

[stray fog]

Commands grass and leaves

So it has some plant based powers

[whole holly]

is it at one with Flora too

it is possible for Palestag to be plant being and it's descendants to not be i guess, because Palestag is explicitly at one with flora around it

[stray fog]

Makes sense

It happens irl

[whole holly]

Palestag being at one with flora around it suggests that they are plant being, or at least is believed to be in myth

[stray fog]

Palesag is completely mythical I think

The people of verdania gave it cool powers

Because they made it up

[swift needle]

pretty sure palestag we fight ingame was in the meory of the green prince which hornet states that she doubts a being like a palestag existed in real life

[whole holly]

one we see is memory anyways, if boss rush dlc unlocks original form then they might be drastically different

[whole holly]

kind of how Grey Prince Zote was conjured, or misremembering warped memory?

[swift needle]

brettas dreams of the grey prince

memories are stronger than dreams

i think

[stray fog]

"fabled first cloverstag" sounds like verdanians saw cloverstags, and made up an origin story for them, which included the first cloverstag having plant powers and being pale

[swift needle]

also the stag doesnt seem like a pale being

[whole holly]

that's honestly interesting how memories can shape dream based beings, maybe that's why Radiance wanted to be remembered

[swift needle]

pale beings are highly powerful able to control kingdoms

[whole holly]

sure but how did myth warp into memory unless it's green prince's idea of what it was, anyways

[swift needle]

idk why wouldnt the pale stag fight gms

for verdania

[stray fog]

The myth could actually be true
I shouldn't assume that they made it up

[stray fog]

Its just an animal

It doesn't care about politics probably

[tropic marten]

Does hornet get captured for her silk?

[whole holly]

they aren't really sentient, they are also elusive

[edgy nebula]

palestag was touched pale, we dont know what that means but i dont think it waa a pale being

[swift needle]

son💔

[whole holly]

yeah, since it is memory, at least, even if it is warped

[edgy nebula]

for her “silken strength” according to lace

[swift needle]

gms wanted a battery

long story short

strung to serve

[edgy nebula]

her intentions were to probably take her power in some way to both break free from her slumber and to continue being able to sustain lace

[stray fog]

I have a headcanon about this:

Everblooms were the origin of paleness
Then, things got "touched pale" by it
And thus, paleness spread

[twin dragon]

she CAN sustain lace by herself

she needed to recover

that's it

[whole holly]

yea but irl counterparts are different, i think irl Palestag counterpart may be just albino cloverstag or it could be plant being that cloverstags mimicked

[twin dragon]

or maybe she wanted the specialty the cross bred weavers had

[edgy nebula]

oh yeah true

[twin dragon]

We see that gms binding hornet changes how she looks and all

an important change does occur

[swift needle]

zemer and the everbloom came from the lands of serene i dont think the everbloom would evergrow outside of the lands as stated by the shamans

[stray fog]

Holdup what if pale things are just albino

[whole holly]

she is just greedy and control freak, silk helps her

[twin dragon]

ye and she's weak as hell rn

pale USUALLY equals soul

[whole holly]

then being pale wouldn't be special, if paleness has some phenomenon behind it, like Pale Light/Soul sure

[swift needle]

all pale beings come from the lands of serene

[whole holly]

there might be some force behind it

[swift needle]

which can be like the final game for hk games

[whole holly]

idk about that, White Lady separates herself from Everbloom

[swift needle]

pretty sure white lady ISNT a normal pale beings

like the others

[whole holly]

that's beside point, her Pale nature can't relate to everbloom's

[stray fog]

Godseekers also say that a delicate flower is not divine

[whole holly]

and there is nothing godly about First Light/Everbloom, if it is separate phenomenon that Godseeker can't sense sure

but regardless, i think Third game or DLC should expand on everbloom, i don't want creation/origin myth though

[twin dragon]

Act 3 should be expanded upon or remade

[stray fog]

City of steel game
Or
Lands serene game

[twin dragon]

that's the FIRST step they should make

[stray fog]

Which would be cooler

[twin dragon]

we CAN'T possibly have 25% of my fav game be mid

[whole holly]

how would they remake act 3 it already exists

[stray fog]

Wdym

[whole holly]

it's already there, they can't scrap already existing content

[twin dragon]

Shit can be remade yk

I mean it would fuck yp

up

like

a lot of progress

but the price is worth it

[whole holly]

Act 3 is already established, TC wouldn't remake it, they aren't

we are getting Plasmium DLC

that's it

[stray fog]

Yeah I dont think they'll do it
But if they do, I wouldn't mind

[whole holly]

that incorporates Cut Content

[twin dragon]

It could be expanded upon with Qol js like the first lifeblood dlc did doe

[whole holly]

i mean neither would i

[whole holly]

Lifeblood DLC reogranized things but already established things were still there, everything still stayed

[lean jewel]

Heys was there anything that foreshadowed the existence of Nyleth before you met her in Act 3? Cuz I can’t Remeber seeing anything that said she even existed before Act 3.

[whole holly]

it just added hive knight and renovations

[twin dragon]

also they added new areas straight up so it is possible

[whole holly]

Moss Druid

[stray fog]

Moss druid has some dialogue

[whole holly]

but not plausible

[twin dragon]

Is there anything that foreshadows the void before act 3

[lean jewel]

Idk, snail shamans

[stray fog]

The steam page /j

[whole holly]

nope, is there any song in silksong?

[twin dragon]

Yes

there is, infact song in silksong

[whole holly]

don't say needolin please

[twin dragon]

It literally could be any underground section

[stray fog]

That isn't much foreshadowing

[twin dragon]

Important to the lore and has some gameplay elements yes

like instead of the abyss

yk

[whole holly]

Song is just song, song that sustains GMS, we never get to hear it, just short ass widow cutscene

[stray fog]

The real foreshadowing was the 1 billion spoilers I got within 3 days of release

Some fucker made the sotv cutscene their fucking thumbnail

With the knight and hornet

[twin dragon]

Lmao its probably the threefold melody

[stray fog]

EXACTLY

[twin dragon]

the one that sustains gms isnt too relevant

I went to search an ost

and fucking

lost lace popped out

[whole holly]

no, i watched cutscene, it is regular melody, threefold made her sleep

[twin dragon]

Well yeah, could be wtv the needolin plays

[stray fog]

Someone used lost lace as background gameplay for a completely unrelated video 💔

[twin dragon]

Valid since the boss is peak but DAMN

[stray fog]

The only thing I didn't get spoilers for was the reveal that those 3 were snail shamans

[whole holly]

i wish we had use for threefold melody outside that one cutscene, we learn all ts just to get to cradle, i wish we could play it again to immobilize enemies and make them asleep for short while

[whole holly]

could be useful against terrors in Bilewater and Putrified Ducts

[stray fog]

Why would the threefold melody do that though

[sinful nimbus]

who remembers the everbloom and arcane egg steamDB leaks 🗣️

And Phantom

[stray fog]

I checked that one intentionally

Also the ost titles

[whole holly]

because song magic, duh

[sinful nimbus]

kinda shattered my hopes and dreams seeing the everbloom ngl

[stray fog]

I always believed skong would have void

Because Sharpe

And steel

[sinful nimbus]

The Phantom artwork also didn't do her design justice and looks really weird but luckily she looks good in-game

Sharpe ain't void 🥱

[twin dragon]

black bug = void

doe sharpe has that suspiciously void tendril-ish animation

[stray fog]

Steel masters are connected to void

We knew that in hk

[sinful nimbus]

They're connected to void in the sense that they'll kill you if you use it

[whole holly]

i wish lifeblood infection took over pharloom bay and hornet got infected and we got another ending of plasmifying GMS

[stray fog]

Drugging your grandma ending

[whole holly]

and their vassals and confessors can summon it

[whole holly]

and muckmaggot ending too

[stray fog]

4 muckmagots won't do shit to gms

[whole holly]

and i wish we got cure of parasite by plasmification

[whole holly]

hornet is able to resist but not parasite, and becomes drugged and plasmified version of white lady but blue

[stray fog]

https://tenor.com/view/realistic-cat-smurf-meme-funny-gif-5895795080802392404

Is this the lifeblood hb

[whole holly]

also i want wispfire ending, but buring GMS alive on Stake

[twin dragon]

how tf is that happening

lmao flame cult WISHES they'd have this much of an importance

[whole holly]

you continue ritual by sacrificing gms to it

[twin dragon]

We barely know about the sacrifices they apprently do

[whole holly]

better than Void, also Wisp seems like more clever solution

[whole holly]

it requires immolation and wisp lantern burns silk, duh

[twin dragon]

I would say this is even worse than void

[twin dragon]

Burning a soul infused thread is one thing

doesnt mean that gms is all of a sudden flamable

[whole holly]

Void is only bad because it is overused

[twin dragon]

Void isn't bad, it's badly introduced

[whole holly]

she is full of it though

[whole holly]

it is repetitive void beats hb ending

[twin dragon]

I mean you have parasite beats hb ending soo

thats cool

[twin dragon]

And even then, narratively doesnt fit

and the cult like

its there

its a cool little addition

never hurts

but its not important

[whole holly]

we also want Plasmium and Wisp to beat GMS

[twin dragon]

smt tells me that plasmium is gonna happen but eh

For real though

Plus like

what does this mean narratively

[stray fog]

Wisp aint that strong

[whole holly]

Burning Bugs literally resist haunting

[twin dragon]

...so?

[stray fog]

They got like 3 and a half rooms in the entire kingdom

[whole holly]

i never though about that, maybe plasmify bugs and then burn GMS?

[whole holly]

so it narratively makes sense

[twin dragon]

it doesnt..

[stray fog]

Thats too many extra steps

[twin dragon]

The thing about the cultists is that they're basically maniacs that do anything to ward off the haunting

[whole holly]

okay then, you come up with better ending

[twin dragon]

even creating a false god

[hidden crater]

Silksong has no lore y'all are going insane

[whole holly]

we have to make it up

[twin dragon]

True, we're talking about tree knight

[edgy nebula]

this we dont know, we know literally nothing about fotf

[twin dragon]

No we do know that i think?

Hunters journal smt smt

[stray fog]

"Totem and god, built and worshipped by the Burning Bugs."

It being an idol doesn't make their religion false

[edgy nebula]

The remains of an aged bug were housed at the pyre’s heart. The structure suggested they wished for immolation. If so, i have seen their wish granted

it doesnt say much about the haunting

[hidden crater]

Did you know
Did you know that uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[twin dragon]

The haunting thing is written somewhere else not sure

[whole holly]

Godseeker would prolly consider it false god

[stray fog]

The boss fight? Yes
The actual god they are worshipping? Idk

[whole holly]

"False god sustained by ritual flame" - Godseeker if she was in Pharloom, probably

[heavy gyro]

Godseeker would count Zango as a god

[whole holly]

i mean there is no actual god, outside of Boss Fight, totem is all there is

[whole holly]

well yeah, Zango will prolly have resonance unlike whatever FotF is

[austere tendon]

Can I post like a wall of text on my thought about hornet and laces relationship? (not bug yuri speculations)

[stray fog]

Go ahead

[whole holly]

they would mostly care about Nyleth, Khann, Karmelita and GMS

[austere tendon]

You know with lace being more of like a stand in for the knight, and bug toxic yuri yada yada. I think lace and hornet relationship would probably be more akin to a sister, ya know?

Like we see hornet view only further expanded in the second fight. Quote "Life? You're too generous! This weak, wasting existence. This
was not life, just a husk shaped to act as a child."

Directly comparable to The hollow Knight. Where everyone saw him as empty even though he held true love in his little ol shell for his dad. We Directly see lace discount herself she sees herself as everyone else saw the vessel. 

Empty, even though her unlike the vessels she can speak and she had a will. She wants her mother's love.

Hornet by contrast to laces statement rejects the statement.

Stating "Yours was life, pale one. Do not confuse your unique creation with its absence. I have seen others make the same mistake."

Hornet herself draws this comparison. She has seen a shell thought empty only to have life.     

 Now I think this is two things. One a little bit of subtle foreshadowing for sister of the Void, and Two hornet drawing that comparison herself to The Hollow Knight. 

Now well this can be taken just at face value, I think it's worth putting in that hornet shows care for the hollow knight and hollownest to some degree as expressed with her earlier sentiments with lace and later dialog expressing her will and desire to save pharloom how she was unable to save hollownest,her mother,  and with context added by the sister of the Void ending.

 Cause as stated lace is a stand for the hollow knight, and this comparison was directly drawn by hornet.  Now hornet may not express care often but she does in silent action. 

Visiting her mother, consoling lace, and i believe in her encouragement of ghost to find themselves. Cause I believe her relationship with Ghost and The Hollow Knight are alluded to being a little bit more caring than shown in Hollow Knight.

The reason I draw this conclusion is due to the sister of the Void ending. Cuz even as The Hollow Knight's and Ghost's sister there's no reason necessarily for them to save them, and it doesn't really make sense unless The Hollow Knight or ghosts care about hornet for some reason.

Which is what leads me to the thought that lace is more of sister to hornet. silksong has alot of themes of family, motherhood, and ascending from the dark. So I don't think this is to out of left field  of thought.

Added that i think it must be more ghost then The Hollow Knight cuz I can't really find any evidence that Hornet and The hollow Knight interacted

[stray fog]

I like to believe that they were in the white palace together for some time

There's no basis for this

But idc

[austere tendon]

It does i didn't even think about that

[rancid river]

You're right in that there's absolutely no basis for this but I absolutely love thinking it's true. I love to think that THK unintentionally (or perhaps intentionally?) taught Hornet how to be a little menace when she was a hatchling. This is pure, unfettered head canon, but I think it's cute

[austere tendon]

Man I wish so hard because the hollow Knight could have really used a friend but unfortunately love was illegal and would have got them shot

[whole holly]

didn't she canonically learn that from Hive Queen Vespa?

guys i want to ask hypothetical question, what if timeline of Alchemist bringing Plasmium to wormways was way before start of game, maybe begun as same time as haunting, what would happen?

[graceful grail]

If all the time put into making silk song included all the groundwork for making DLC‘s do you guys think we’ll get SOS in January?

[whole holly]

would haunting be more successful or plasmium?

[whole holly]

no

[graceful grail]

I have a reason to suspect a creature similar to the life Blood beast will get involved at some point.

Life blood beast could be why It isn’t spreading much in hollownest.

[whole holly]

could be

[graceful grail]

Also mind you, life blood was basically just planted when hornet arrived.

In pharloom

[austere tendon]

Maybe but in God home we do see a lifeblood of Beast and and I wonder is the lifeblood Beast their cuz of the lifeblood or is the lifeblood there cuz the lifeblood Beast.

Ya feel me

[whole holly]

i meant what if it wasn't, that's what i asked

[graceful grail]

We know the life blood beast only exists in the dreamworld. Even when we see it in the abyss, we see the essence around it.

[austere tendon]

Right cuz the only other one that appears is in the abyss and the lifeblood dream chamber

[twin dragon]

infection rehashes fighting

[graceful grail]

This could be crazy, I literally just thought of this, but the life blood beast could be a sort of vessel. Made to contain the lifeblood. Absence of mind wasn’t required for this though.

[pale narwhal]

also the fact that hallownest has very isolated pods while the worways has a bunch in close proximity
could be a pollination thing

[graceful grail]

Also, it was just planted in pharloom where it was in hollownest for substantially longer

This also raises the question of how did the life blood get into hollownest

[whole holly]

true question is where does it originate? salt stricken waters or hallownest?

[graceful grail]

It might just be native to salt water.

Also, I find it strange that the sands of Karak was a river. Even though all of the inhabitants are coral related.

[austere tendon]

I also wonder if they're like the same creature or like a different one

[graceful grail]

This is 100% speculation

[whole holly]

how do we know that?

[graceful grail]

It’s where the alchemist got it from.

[whole holly]

which creatures are you comparing?

[graceful grail]

A speculation that the life blood beast is a vessel made to contain life blood. It’s 100% speculation.

[austere tendon]

The Beast found in God home and the abyss

[whole holly]

yeah but does that mean it originated there, it can occur there same way it occured in hallownest

[graceful grail]

Hollownest could be by the sea, but we never see it.

The sea could be past Crystal Peak

[whole holly]

Abyss Creature in Abyss Lifeblood room and Godhome Lifeblood Room are same

[whole holly]

speculation

[graceful grail]

As always

Also, the life blood beast seems to be in alligned in a way with the Kight, could this be because pale king and life blood beast were in league in someway?

My reason for this is because the radiance is in the dreamworld and so is the life blood beast.

Maybe life blood beast is helping the Kight to get the radiance out of the dreamworld.

[austere tendon]

I don't think so cuz of like contextual evidence really. Life blood in hollownest is seen as taboo, the treatment of joni, and the fact that we only see the lifeblood beast in prison leads to me believing that they are a bad omen

[graceful grail]

It could just be its home. Maybe the life blood beast sealed itself inside.

Not that it’s sealing itself anywhere because it lives in the dreamworld

[whole holly]

Pale King outlawed Lifeblood usage, Joni was heretic because of it

[graceful grail]

GTG

[austere tendon]

I also think that if Joni was to be left alone for a little bit longer we would probably end up with an area similar to the seal we see in the abyss. Due to the similarities to of joni chamber and life blood beast chamber

[graceful grail]

Pale king could’ve forced the life blood beast into the dreamworld to minimize its effects on hollownest

[austere tendon]

All vary ritualistic

[whole holly]

they weren't in league, Pale King outlawed Lifeblood Usage

[graceful grail]

I was saying, pale king could’ve forced the life blood beast against its will into the dreamworld.

GTG

[whole holly]

you also said they were in league

[graceful grail]

I’m hearing what you’re saying and changing what it could be, I wasn’t staying in that opinion anymore

People change their mind

[whole holly]

that's low effort discussion, though

[graceful grail]

Well, i guess PK was somewhat 2faced

[austere tendon]

Vary

[whole holly]

Abyss Creature seems to be hiding away in Abyss because it can only be opened by Lifeblood, from Pale King presumably

[whole holly]

but somewhat in dream world too

i had to share this

[austere tendon]

Now this is the toxic bug yuri I've been wanting

[cinder pebble]

first thing i see when i check out sk lore 😭

[whole holly]

if they were actually together they would be unstoppable though

tbh Pharloom is generally well built but not sustained by weavers, thats why everything went to ruin

Radiance had children but only to serve them

together they would be able to cocreate child from essence/light and silk i guess

[whole holly]

Pale King sacrificed everything he wasn't about to let another infection take over Hallownest

[lone folio]

Did hallownest get like fully taken over at one point by lifeblood?

[whole holly]

hornet says she saw similar abberations in hallownest, likely aften infection ended

[lone folio]

Maybe that's why there are so many random life seed cocoons everywhere. That's what remained of the lifeblood infection that ravaged the kingdom.

[lone folio]

It was also stated to "flourish" I'm pretty sure

Oh actually

What if that was the inspiration for the radiances infection

[whole holly]

i with Grimm Troupe gets explored and fleshed out

[whole holly]

they function differently, one first affect body, one targets mind

[lone folio]

Yes but they are still very similar

Hornet even mentions that fact

[whole holly]

generally, yes, they are both essence based infections i guess and hivemind

[lone folio]

And while that part of the infection is different how they look and behave is very similar.

So radiance did a classic "you can copy my homework but don't make it too obvious"

[whole holly]

their stages are different also how they spread so, not really

[whole holly]

team cherry did that they wrote game, radiance didn't plan infection to look like that

it naturally happened as side effect

[lone folio]

How do you know?

[whole holly]

game says it, it manifested

[lone folio]

Like where give me some dialogue

[whole holly]

Moss Prophet: "Light is life, beaming, pure, brilliant. To stifle that light is to suppress nature. Nature suppressed distorts, plagues us. Embrace light! Achieve union!"

resisting her light turns to infection

[lone folio]

Ah

[whole holly]

Violent Husk Hunter's Journal entry: "The bugs of Hallownest were twisted out of shape by that ancient sickness. First they fell into deep slumber, then they awoke with broken minds, and then their bodies started to deform..."

[lone folio]

Wait

Fuck does he mean "ancient sickness"

Thing is like a couple of centuries old at maximum

[sinful nimbus]

What

The infection is very very old

[lone folio]

I mean I don't know how long an HK year is but it probably isn't that much

[sinful nimbus]

Hallownest is an "ancient ruin"

[sinful nimbus]

???

[lone folio]

So how old is elder bug

[sinful nimbus]

He was born after the kingdom fell and stag stations closed down so relatively young

But for his lifespan he's probably old

[lone folio]

He's at least uhh "few years" old

Ok so last stag is older then elderbug

Interesting interesting

[whole holly]

i think i don't want to see any pale being in good while, i want Higher Beings to be interesting colors, purple, blue, grey, and brown, pink too

[lone folio]

I would love to see a non pale wyrm

[timber pond]

Lifeblood is also older than the infection likely

[twilit crest]

Pink being… pink bean… it all comes back to maplestory

[unreal jolt]

Is it ever stated what Eva is capable of? And do you think Hornet inherited something that wasn't shown in game from it?

[twilit crest]

It’s pretty vague but ideally she would’ve turned out like hornet in a way

[dreamy onyx]

What do people think of the theory that the Cogwork Core bugs were based off of bugs from the Lowlands?

[unreal jolt]

Makes sense, Eva is a "failed hornet" but she has different abilities, being able to awaken Hornet's nature, the vesticrest and silphsong when you bind her. I don't remember if it's stated in game, but I saw a theory where she's half pale

[unreal jolt]

I think it makes sense, the cogwork dancers are a strong example. It's just like in Avatar 1 and 2, in the second movie the mechas are more animal-ish, so maybe the citadel copied the bugs doing certain tasks and made some improvements on top of it

[whole holly]

i think Eva is somewhat divine, because of abilities, if she was given actually body like Servitor Igrim has , she would be stronger like hornet

[dreamy onyx]

I think there's more examples but I can't find them off the top of my head

[austere tendon]

Well silk is stated to be connected with soul, pale being particularly have a connection to soul seemingly, as well as stated in a reddit AMA pale ore has connection to soul as well, and what does it mean I don't know I just thought it'd be interesting to bring up

[twin dragon]

Lifeslop god

[whole holly]

aren't all gods like that?

[twin dragon]

Talking abt something we might get

Thats not pale

[unreal jolt]

Yeah, everything pale seems to have a connection, like the pale oil also

[lone folio]

That slug comparison may be a bit off a stretch but the others are alright

[twilit crest]

He’s calling lifeblood slop I think

[unreal jolt]

Yeah it makes a lot of sense

[austere tendon]

Oh right I remember Eva doesn't give pale being vibes as pale being inherently tend to be abit aggressive with Hornet stating pale being have an inherent want to rule

[whole holly]

oh, Lifeblood is def gonna get god

[dreamy onyx]

There was a reddit post about this comparison but I haven't been able to find it for the like of me

[whole holly]

she can't exist outside chamber

[unreal jolt]

Maybe she had a lot of time to think in her little chamber and her will to help became stronger than her nature

Just like hornet in the true ending, instead of ruling she tried to just banish GMS to the void

[austere tendon]

That definitely plausible I always thought since she like tool and weapon for the weavers her kindness stimmed from the fact she was originally just a tool

And hornet is a waver

[austere tendon]

I mean was the void the intended out outcome? I always thought that was something that was kind of sprung on her by the snails which is why she was like "what the f*** guys"

[unreal jolt]

XD yeah, but wasn't the intent sealing her into a stronger weapon?

Hornet knew that the item could do, so Ig she just assumed it'd seal gms

[austere tendon]

That's what I imagined cuz she she knew they were snail shamans so I mean she was just like yeah they know magic and s***

[unreal jolt]

If it wasn't for Herrah and WL, the weavers would do to hornet what they intended with Eva, as she was also a weapon for them

[austere tendon]

Ya, the weavers were cunning manipulative little guys

[unreal jolt]

Yeah

She assumed that the snare setter, by being a weaver tool, would accomplish their plans in some way, destroying gms

And I bet she knows about the void just about how much we know, so she didn't expect that they could summon a portal to the void with soul

Also, how do the steel people and snail shamans control the void? Is it just soul or a separate system?

[whole holly]

Steel Hearts manipulate Void, Snail Shamans manipulate Soul they just opened portal to void which is different

[unreal jolt]

That makes sense

Both have some connection

But I wonder which one made those ancient civilizations at the void

[whole holly]

even trap was soul based, void is just drawn to soul

[whole holly]

shamans just can create portals, mostly, not really connection with void

[whole holly]

neither, probably

[unreal jolt]

Makes sense

I find the void interesting

Sometimes it behaves like a black mass

But in the final cutscenes it looks like a huge water reservoir with black dragons in it

Probably an entire ecosystem

[twin dragon]

They seemingly made the portal to the void doe

Most dialogues within the context reference that

[twin dragon]

I mean the void are a bunch of things

It always was

[whole holly]

yeah but snare trap was soul based, and they opened portal to void which is drawn to soul

[twin dragon]

Yes, but the void would consume anything if you were to feed it

Thats what they did

[whole holly]

not explicitly void skill but portal spell skill

it is just portal magic, similar to how they have way to enter memories despite not manipulating essence

[whole holly]

they probably have more connection to essence than void anyways

[twin dragon]

Yeah no shit

[terse warren]

the last message of this channel of 2025 for me is one that has the word "Void"

ironic

[whole holly]

You live 3 hours behind me? Wow I am from Eastern Europe, good to see European

[terse warren]

seems so

[whole holly]

Can I guess your country?

[terse warren]

it's very easy but sure

[rapid bloom]

Italian or French

It is not part of the lore though

[swift needle]

happy new years guyss!!!

new years new lore

https://tenor.com/view/the-chosen-jesus-point-look-up-smiling-gif-18032168

[rapid bloom]

Sea of Sorrow is gonna add a tremendous amount of lore

[twin dragon]

Act 3 is getting fixed this year guys!!!

[rapid bloom]

Especially on Lifeblood

[twin dragon]

mr mushroom told me

[rapid bloom]

Gaspeth

Mr Mushroom boss confirmed?

Speaking of, I wonder, if Hornet fought Mr Mushroom

How strong would have he been?

[twin dragon]

Uh

He would just ramble about some shit

and dip

[sinful nimbus]

Always bet on Mister Mushroom higher being

[edgy nebula]

are there any cool silksong lore topics or mysteries left to be discussed

[sinful nimbus]

Not until Wanderer's Journal 2

Oh I guess Sea of Sorrow is first

[twin dragon]

Chat is this real

Will TC make another non-guide guide

that is peak

[foggy fractal]

what would the wanderer's journal merch equivalent even be

are we getting a bone scroll from like a pilgrim or smth 😭

[twin dragon]

actually a bone scroll depicting the travels of a pilgrim would be neat

[halcyon merlin]

trobbio origin story and sad backstory

[sinful nimbus]

No I want Ellina back

My goat

The blackwyrm herself

[twin dragon]

https://tenor.com/view/dexter-james-doakes-surprise-mf-can't-prove-it-gif-7408854170742055240

[halcyon merlin]

why stop at only pale wyrm and black wyrm

where's the other colors

redwyrm yellowyrm bluewyrm purplewyrm

[foggy fractal]

wanderers journal: second volume 🥶

[jovial girder]

Ancient civilization

[edgy nebula]

onewyrm twowyrm redwyrm bluewyrm

[halcyon merlin]

true

[muted lantern]

hey i was talking about how the pinstress waves when hornet leaves here a while back, i made a gif of it.

[pearl tinsel]

i just had a brainblast.

lifeblood entity is herrah's ex

herrah's ex was said to be 'Of Higher Caste', implying it was a higher being

lifeblood once flourished in hornet's home caves

so lifeblood was in deepnest

[muted lantern]

Hornets home caves refers to hallownest.

[pearl tinsel]

i think it refers to deepnest

seeing as it's taboo in hallownest, i dont find is plausible that lifeblood would flourish there

deepnest, however, is different

[muted lantern]

She didn't live in deepnest very long, and we see quite little lifeblood in deepnest iirc.

[pearl tinsel]

thats because flourished is past tense. didnt last very long

lifeblood entity took most of the lifeblood in the divorce

[muted lantern]

Also when is deepnests king referred to as of the higher caste again? Its been a while since i read through hks text. Do you have the line?

[pearl tinsel]

its in fungal wastes, lemme pull it up rq

[muted lantern]

(also im pretty sure deepnests ruler is explicitly stated to be dead.)

[pearl tinsel]

This border bounds the twisting, scratching things.
Their dead sire, once of honoured caste.
Their sealed mother, but the common beast.
No peace with them we make. 

[pearl tinsel]

lifeblood entity is sealed in the abyss, in a dream

that seems pretty close to death

[muted lantern]

Honored cast is very different from higher caste.

Higher caste explicitly refers to higher beings

[pearl tinsel]

seems similar, considering herrah, a weaver, was called a common beast

truth

[muted lantern]

I mean theres just not a connection, we have no indication of an honored caste being a term for higher beings. Silksong uses the term higher caste for them, specifically uses the term "higher" to indicate a higher being. Plus again, hornet didn't live in deepnest, not since she was very very young. The vast majority of her life hallownest was her home, so it makes far more sense to that being what shes referring.The biggest example of lifeblood flourishing is in jonis repose, somewhere in hallownest. Which is likely to what shes referring to. Additionally, how and why would deepnest bury their king in the abyss, in a dream.

[pearl tinsel]

dang shame

[muted lantern]

Generally I think home caves refer to the whole region, deepnest, hallownest, kingdoms edge. I think that whole region that tk explores in the first game would be what hornet considers her home caves.

Racist mushrooms confirmed?

[floral venture]

Did he marry Herrah?

[halcyon merlin]

is mushroom man racist

[muted lantern]

Mr mushroom? Hard to say, but he seems like he's more open minded

[halcyon merlin]

hell yeah

[muted lantern]

How long do snail shamans live? Like is the one in hallownest old enough to have seen before the kingdoms fall?

That's actually a really good way to explain little weavers, that the sapience doesn't really get passed down.

So is the big thing here supposed to be his coffin? Or just a statue, it's interesting that it has 8 long cords like a spider has 8 legs. Do we know non weaver spiders exist?

Also can the little weavers make their own silk or are they just using the threads all over the region. Like do they lack the ability to make silk because GMS didn't design that to be passed down?

Honestly for a long time I assumed weavers were the only spiders that existed in the HK universe, is there anything else that's ever called a spider?

Maybe they got the ability to spin silk from the father instead, since regular pharlids don't produce it

Devourt are defo arachnids but I was under the impression you need silk to be able to be a spider.

[dire lynx]

nosk is also a spider

[blissful harbor]

is it

[muted lantern]

What part is cope?

[dire lynx]

it uses silk to string up its prey

and its probably inspired by mimic spiders

[muted lantern]

I mean it could use the abundance of silk around the region, but you are probably right that it makes its own

[dire lynx]

its for sure its own silk, its unique in being black unlike that of weavers

[blissful harbor]

i agree it’s using spider tactics
but likes it’s a shapeshifter in the middle of the soidrr ghetto, i don’t think it’s necessarily a spider more so it’s copying traits from its environment

[muted lantern]

Oh wow I forgot that, good catch

It makes sense there's more than just weaver spiders there, due to the abundance of silk

Which doesn't seem to be magical silk

[dire lynx]

also, yeah was gonna say that i doubt the weavers gave up their limit life essence to make homes for the regular inhabitants of deepnest

[muted lantern]

It could also be that it's because she's a foreigner, outside of the deepnests standing caste system, so a commoner by default.

[dire lynx]

Sister, spider, sat between salt and stone,
Build those tools of brilliant mind imagined,
Aid us when our Silk has waned.

[jagged socket]

so like, is this a weaver or? my first playthrough was on release so I forgot everything 💔

They dun took her brain

Well, she says shes "A child of the Weavers, yet not quite their kin"

[dire lynx]

shes an attempt at creating a higher being to overthrow gms

*pale

[jagged socket]

Shes also the goddamn sun

[dire lynx]

glows like a pale being

[halcyon merlin]

well she was created to be a higher being

might as well make it pale

[jagged socket]

Do we know how long after hollowknight silksong takes place

Assuming silksong comes after time wise

[halcyon merlin]

no

[jagged socket]

2 days after the knight explodes, hornet gets kidnapped

[halcyon merlin]

best thing confirmed is a few days

from hornet going from hallownest to pharloom

[jagged socket]

Stabbed 37 times

[edgy nebula]

happy new years sk-lore

[foggy fractal]

happy halloween

[silent plume]

reaper crest is so good

its insane

[frigid belfry]

technically we have zero idea how this universe translates to real life time as a whole

the entirety of Hallownest could have existed for a second or for 8 billion years

we just don’t know

[dreamy onyx]

hallownest is said to have been in stasis for an age

could be anywhere from like 10 years to 30

[rapid bloom]

Add

A lot more

[dreamy onyx]

to 3000

[rapid bloom]

More or less so

It was enough to be considered an age afterall

Hallownest, for its whole existence, was more in a period of decline rather than a period of greatness

[dreamy onyx]

also remember that

• ancient civilisation existed, though they could've fallen at different times
• old hearts were around before weavers
• weavers took control
• weavers fled pharloom
• herrah is here now
• infection happens
• hornet is born

[rapid bloom]

The apex of Hallownest lasted way less than its downfall

[dreamy onyx]

we have no idea how the Haunting and Infection line up with each other

the Haunting could've started recently for all we know

[rapid bloom]

1. Ancient Civilization fell due to something unknown, but rumors circulate around about them getting absorbed by the Void
2. The Old Hearts are rulers of proeminent factions before the coming of GMS and the Weavers
3. Yeah, they took control and fled after they realized that GMS could only be caged, not destroyed
4. Herrah and the Weavers had different dens, so I am unsure if she was considered much of a Weaver, maybe she was half Weaver

[dreamy onyx]

she was full definetly weaver

there's a choral commandment that states hornet as being a weaver in half-part

[rapid bloom]

Then it all remains to why Herrah is so different

Why she is considered a common bug compared to the Weavers

[dreamy onyx]

i mean from the eyes of the mushrooms that state her as such

she's basically some random bug that showed up, married the king, and now rules a land bordering their own

silk is also uncommon in hallownest so they might not have even known what it is, which makes the weaver's abilities also seem less impressive

[dreamy onyx]

isnt she only a common bug compared to the old king of hallownest

[dire lynx]

the haunting is a recent occurrence

[rapid bloom]

The Haunting cannot be recent

Because the Citadel can fall randomly, but all of Pharloom?

[dire lynx]

they are all part weavers as far as we know, and the choir is huge

[dire lynx]

what do you mean by this?

there can be more than one chamber out hunting at a time

and recent doesnt mean like a week ago

[dire lynx]

pharloom was destroyed by and because of the citadel

when i say recent i mean a few "years" type of idea

the chapel maid says the roads are growing dangerous

not that they already are, when referring to the haunting

[frigid belfry]

retcon mostly

[dire lynx]

Before you depart, permit an old bug a brief warning. Best keep that weapon drawn.
Our kingdom is gripped by a curse. Its paths grow wild and dangerous

[dreamy onyx]

the citadel has collapsed but everywhere seems... relatively fine

the lowlands i assume haven't been affected at all minus agressive pilgrims and skarr

id say the haunting is definetly a recent phenomenon

a lot of the speculation is just based on the fact that we have no concrete timeline or scale for the hk world

[edgy nebula]

id consider karak's fall pretty old

pre-goldenage/prime gms was awhile ago

[rapid bloom]

I was referring strictly to the Haunting

Not about what the Citadel did

[edgy nebula]

a long time ago in pharloom's timeline atleast, we dont know how fast everything came

[dire lynx]

what about it

[rapid bloom]

The Haunting cannot be that recent because how can the Haunting affect so many bugs in a short amount of time?

The Citadel is understandable since it is literally beneath her cocoon

[dire lynx]

Have you done it yet, bellringer? Wriggled deep? Discovered the depths of obsession that brought this place so low?
Hornet: If you speak of this Citadel and its Silk, Caretaker, then yes, I now know the start of it.
Hornet: In the ward down below, I saw it clear, the hollowed husks, and the many torturous implements... machines to instill a bug with thread, that would see their life extended.
Aye! That's it, in part! But there's more scale to it than all that. Just think of'em greedily shoving the Silk into their shells, the madness that overcame them, eternal life for mortal bugs! Then think on how long it's all gone on...
Hornet: ...The children born of them, and all the pilgrims after... The Silk has seeded deep into this kingdom's shells, generations deep...
Hornet: No wonder Pharloom's bugs proved such easy prey for that haunted thread. It had only to seek for itself to reach them.
Ho ho! Now you're seein' it, bellringer! These poor pilgrims, all born bound to the cruel system of our world, now stricken in its new cursed web.
You at least are free from it. And free to shake it all up... if'n that's your choosing.

also
In the air. The water. Everywhere.
Inside their shells. Twisted inside. Guts.
Tightest around heart. Pulsing rhythm.
Sick. Alive. Dead?
Something worse.
Deeper. Must look deeper.

the haunting didnt need to work like the infection to manifest, because everyone was already full of silk microplastics

[rapid bloom]

So what you are trying to say is that it happened very fast

Because of "silk micro plastics" (sounds cool for some reason 😭)

[dire lynx]

essentially lol

hornet puts it best
No wonder Pharloom's bugs proved such easy prey for that haunted thread. It had only to seek for itself to reach them.

[rapid bloom]

I wonder if GMS planned for the Haunting to take place or not

Because my guess is no

[dire lynx]

its an active choice of hers to haunt bugs, it just wasnt planned that it would be so easy to do it

weavers and conductors made her job easy

[rapid bloom]

Golden masters ahh 😭

They are the ones to blame tho-

[dire lynx]

bum ass weavers

[rapid bloom]

Yeah, but the thing is that the Weavers wouldn't have thought of Silk as something to be sold

We keep getting shown that

The Conductors ruined the Citadel and made it golden, using faith as just another way to satisfy their greed

Oh ya, it's New Year

I drank too much

[dire lynx]

they used it to make the pilgrims live forever

so they had immortal slaves

they were taking GMS' silk so it didnt impact them at all

[dreamy onyx]

am I the only one who sees a resemblance

look at the skulls they each wear

[robust wagon]

No you are not the only one, people bring this up fairly often

[dreamy onyx]

i really wish we got more marrow lore

actually more lowlands lore in general

[craggy smelt]

yeah, like who did all these bones come from

what's their story

why are they so big and how did they die

bone lore

[dreamy onyx]

bonelore

[twin dragon]

6 billion things died there idk

[dreamy onyx]

the lowlands are my favourite part of silksong tbh

if only because I really like the far fields

[stray fog]

Huge ancient bugs probably

[stray fog]

Maybe they're wearing the skulls of their victims

The second enemy looks like its skull mask is a helmet

[craggy smelt]

you're kidding

I moreso meant that I want to know the nature of these ancient bugs

higher beings? just big creatures? connections with the ancient civilization?

critters from some older, stranger age, when everything was bigger...

[stray fog]

Ancient insects were huge irl too

During the carboniferous period

[craggy smelt]

yeah, like that big centipede

thing was huge

[half zenith]

Do ya think that in the DLC we’ll finally get some clues as to how much time has passed since Hollow Knight

If Grimm ever shows up, the current state of himself + Grimmchild should be a clue

What if the godhome equivalent of Pharloom doesn’t take place in the Dream Realm, but in the Nightmare Realm? If the Elegy of The Deep allows Hornet to explore memories, then surely her own memories are rich with nightmares right? It would also justify the boss rush having non canon battles such as Lost Shakra that never did happen in canon, but What If They Had

I strongly doubt Hornet could ascend to godhood through the boss rush mode -if I were writing it, I would instead have the memory/nightmare mode ending take place nebulously post canon and carry the reward of Hornet beating her inner demons, having some clarity of mind, and sleeping a little more peacefully at night

But that’s if I were the writer. Team Cherry probably has something more extravagant planned for the boss rush ending

Non canon bosses born from Hornet’s bad memories and anxieties that I theorize might happen

• A few folks Hornet had to fight after they succumbed to infection
• At least one vessel
• The Knight/Shade Lord at full power level
• Lost Shakra (and some other dark what ifs)
• Primal Aspid Queen
• Lost Radiance/Lost Silk
• Absolute Silk

[ember river]

Hornet isn't beating Void Given Focus

Much less in her normal form

[quick geyser]

In order to enter her own memories, we’ve seen that Hornet literally need the strength of 3 insanely powerful heart. So elegy of the deep might not be a viable tool for Hornet to access her own memory like she did. Of course, team cherry can you make it so that Hornet can refight bosses via remembering their battle instead of through other means (Similar to reflection of strength in Sekiro)

[ember river]

That's an endless cycle, grimmchild becomes the new grimm and the old one is consumed by flames

[half zenith]

Fair point

[ember river]

the red memory is different than accessing a memory, she actually brought forth a physical object from her memory

Elegy of the deep doesn't require that much power

[quick geyser]

I know, I also mention that Hornet can literally just remember the boss normally instead of using supernatural mean