sk-lore

[cedar skiff]

the pinstress hiveverse expands

[sinful nimbus]

Fayforn and Vespa are both huge

[whole holly]

i don't know but something originally being done with silk and being exclusive to silk are different

[sinful nimbus]

Both mothers

Uhh

[cedar skiff]

is fayforn a mother

this is news to me

what did it birth

oh like the little things

[sinful nimbus]

Driftlins have her downy cloak, horns, body type, and their needolin dialogue mentions a mother

[torpid spade]

I mean the little flying guys that are used as silk refill pogo flowers look like the fayforn

[cedar skiff]

oh awww

another one billion mothers to silksong

[torpid spade]

silksong is the world's first mother-themed game

[sinful nimbus]

Glidey! Glidey! Glidey! 🗣️ 
Mother, mother, gleam so brightly... 🔥 
Lightly, lightly, oh so lightly... 💯 
Drifty, drifty, oh so nicely... 🥶

[cedar skiff]

mt fay lore potential is untapped what the fuck is brightvein

is this actual dialogue

im crying

[timber pond]

Soul sanctum was using the corpse of a snail shaman like groal was to get those powers.

Pale king used tons of it in his workshop in a physical sense, and citadel automatons use it. You can also debate that Pure vessel was using silk runes .
In theroy anyone can use silk, but soul needs the spell extracted from snail shamans it seems.

I meant silk

[cedar skiff]

gleam so brightly is interesting though

[timber pond]

For the second part

[cedar skiff]

glow powerscaling fayforn and pk

brightness powerscaling

[whole holly]

Pure Vessel used Runes though

[opal jasper]

does anyone know where these sprites are used in silksong or hollow knight?

[torpid spade]

I want to say Tram Bench but thats different

[opal jasper]

its named carraige pieces

[stray grove]

There are also runes used in the black egg among other places

[twin dragon]

Sealing runes were presumably woven by weavers

[opal jasper]

yeah someone said that yesterday too

[twin dragon]

Like the ones you see in the weaver's next in dripnest

[timber pond]

But anyway, groal using the snail shaman tells us that soul sanctum likely also got thier powers by extracting them from a snail shaman.

[twin dragon]

WHAT

NO SHIT!

[whole holly]

Only Soul Master did that, rest used soul

[whole holly]

I meant attack runes

[timber pond]

...which the rest likely copied from soul master?

The spells themselves are from the snail shamans

[whole holly]

Not really

[twin dragon]

Runes as a whole lmao

[timber pond]

And without the spells you cant effectively use soul

[twin dragon]

"attack runes"

[torpid spade]

Only the Soul Master made use of Desolate Dive

[twin dragon]

Js call it a regular spell

[whole holly]

They are runes that attack yes

[twin dragon]

So the infection is truly the infecting infection

[timber pond]

Which is likely the bassis for anything else they did.

Im saying that they likely developed teleport and homing ball AFTER extracting the snail shamans powers.

[torpid spade]

also I must say. very convenient for those two tortured shamans to only disappear once the main character arrives and gets whatever they had. I appreciate that. more bugs should do that

[torpid spade]

Makes sense

[twin dragon]

The one in bilewatah doesn't even bulge

[torpid spade]

Hey guys it's me Hornet-- hey did that guy just turn into sand?

[twin dragon]

he doesn't dissapear does he?

iirc

[torpid spade]

I thought bro dissolved

[timber pond]

Like groal and soul sanctum are the only 2 instances of bugs using sould for combat. And both invovle a snail shamans corpse.

So im going to assume any spell developed was because eof the shamans corpses.

[silver tundra]

Why do yall think Vespa trained Hornet even tho the Hive didn’t want anything to do with Hallownests’ drama

[torpid spade]

eh I'm not refighting Groal again for a screenshot I won't dispute

[silver tundra]

She should’ve just sheltered her no?

Or maybe we wouldn’t have had a cool game

[twin dragon]

Js go back to the hut lmao

[torpid spade]

I'm not going back into bilewater for a screenshot

[twin dragon]

you have ducts shortcut

ducts is worse tbf

[torpid spade]

not touching poison swamp user unfriendly edition with a ten foot pole

[whole holly]

point is Shamans effectively used Soul and Weavers effectively used Silk, bugs trying to make use of it were equally ineffective

besides Silk being sole way to make Runes are mehh, Essence can construct more impressive things anyways

[timber pond]

But this isn't true because pale king uses silk for wingsmoulds and kingsmoulds

So that proves that it can be used by other bugs

[whole holly]

proof? he also used soul, plus we can make exception for Higher Beings, i specified bugs

[timber pond]

The copious amounts of silkspools in the hidden station and his workshop

[torpid spade]

idk what exactly PK was using the silk for but bro was trucking it into Basin by the stagfull

[whole holly]

but that does not mean he used for wingsmoulds he also likely used it for runes and seal of binding and other stuff, but he is higher being so not good example

[timber pond]

Why were the spools in the workshop specifically for wingsmoulds💀

Also yeah whiteward silk injection

Totally forgot

[twin dragon]

thats what soul does lmao

[torpid spade]

Citadel putting a seal on Hornet's Cage
GMS was asleep in her cocoon and Widow doesn't fuck with the magical stuff

[twin dragon]

as much as i disagree with nika on many things

he cookin

[timber pond]

The citadel caste know how to at least inject silk

[whole holly]

Soul Sanctum bugs also injected soul though

[timber pond]

Soul probably gets infected by the infection

[whole holly]

... what....?

[torpid spade]

huh

[spark valve]

weavers didn't invent runes

[whole holly]

i am having stroke trying to understand it

[spark valve]

fs just pioneered weaving silk into runes she didn't invent runes lol

[timber pond]

Are you saying that the soul sanctum bugs use the infection?

[whole holly]

Tammo for the rescue

[timber pond]

What do you mean infected soul?

[whole holly]

they used soul, what?

[whole holly]

type, i meant injected

[timber pond]

Oh ok.

[torpid spade]

single letter typo. conversation immediately derailed

[whole holly]

or consumed it in some way, but that's not relevant

[timber pond]

Idk if they did that tho. They just extracted soul and are using it for the spells

[whole holly]

yeah

[cedar skiff]

whats even the point attempted to be made here, that silk and soul are too similar?

[whole holly]

they are bloated, with usage of soul

[twin dragon]

Nika drank the starpengium

[cedar skiff]

chatgpt potion

[timber pond]

They could also be bloated from the infection though, because thats more something the infection does. Unless you Wana argue that groal looks the way he does because he ate some soul

[twin dragon]

lmao

[whole holly]

original convo was that silk has no unique major traits that aren't taken from Soul, Essence in some way

[whole holly]

does ChatGPT know silksong lore?

[sinful nimbus]

Soul Master is bloated from soul that's why he deflates (Scholars also note their mind swelling)

[torpid spade]

Silk and Soul being the same is like what is said directly in the text

[sinful nimbus]

Groal doesn't do this because he didn't intake enough soul

[gentle aspen]

We are directly told they’re bloated from soul use

[torpid spade]

I'm still confused on that essence connection

[timber pond]

Does record Aba say that?

[twin dragon]

The whole song shtick

[sinful nimbus]

It makes sense its just laaaaaaaaaaaaame

[whole holly]

but convo changed to Silk being used more than Soul outside designated Bugs that can use it(Weavers i guess and higher beings)

[whole holly]

yeah, it originated from there ig

[cedar skiff]

i thought it was agreed on that silk is just an expression of soul like

is this a writing critique or point about the lore

[timber pond]

Silk can be used without consequence.

Its like an electrician being given a coper bar (soul) instead of a wire(silk) and being told to make things work with it lol

Unless you inject silk

[twin dragon]

Nika argues that it serves too many purposes

I don't have an issue with it as it's literally the basis of the narrative

[cedar skiff]

im confused what does that mean?

[whole holly]

it is mostly memories being connected to essence explained by seer but silk plagiarized that connection too, plus replacing dream nail, with song mechanic(which is okay on it's own) which was once again connected to silk

[twin dragon]

It basically acts as essence, soul and some other bullshit magic at once

[cedar skiff]

how does it act as essence

im so lost

[spark valve]

it doesn't act as essence it just holds it

[sinful nimbus]

silk=soulspells=lame
needolin=dreamnail=lame
haunting=infection=lame

[twin dragon]

Apparently everything that can access memories is essence, even then silk recreates memories

[sinful nimbus]

they even threw in void spells with act 3 vro

[cedar skiff]

how is silk even attached to memories

[timber pond]

Unless hornet gains the ability to see essence, we dont actually know the particulars of HOW the silk is interacting with memory. Mabye its just tapping into essence like a conduit?

[twin dragon]

what

[cedar skiff]

isnt being able to access memories just a spell taught by the shamans

a song actually

that you just play on the needolin?

[sinful nimbus]

blackthreading=void spells+infection=lame

[cedar skiff]

she onika ate burgers

[fresh badger]

Dreamnail > needolin because dn lets you hear Marissa

None of ss singers even come close to Marissa's peakness

[lone folio]

Something something soul has the memories and personality of bugs something

[sinful nimbus]

Nuus singing is pretty tuff

[spark valve]

pinstress:

[fresh badger]

Nuu unn nuu unn nuu unn unn

[cedar skiff]

silks never directly used to access memories

[sinful nimbus]

nuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu nuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu eh nuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu nuuuuuuuu nuuuuuuuuu nuuuuuuuu mulamolanuuuuuuu 🗣️

[cedar skiff]

it’s literally never silk

[timber pond]

I think the point was more like, how is silk in certain spots replaying memories of bugs.

[cedar skiff]

you just play magic spell melodies on the needolin

[twin dragon]

ts isnt even a voidspell

[sinful nimbus]

Silk holding memories makes sense

Soul held memories in the first game and imo memories are a fine way to explore like verdania

[fresh badger]

Theres explicit dialogue about silk carrying memories

[cedar skiff]

its not like you use silk magic to get into the memories

you use song magic

[twin dragon]

Shit straight up rebuilds it

At least we don't have a bullshit realm for that

yk

this time

[timber pond]

So does this mean that silk is also a conduit for essence,because essence is raw memories?

[cedar skiff]

this truly was our silksong

[torpid spade]

this describes my point better than I could
song magic is entirely seperate from silk
it seemingly commands silk, with how enemies are forced to sing after you play the needolin. it would also explain how the Threefold Melody can imprison GMS so

[timber pond]

Not the heart memories. Things like lace talking to Phantom and the weavers in thier dens plotting

[torpid spade]

I dont think its a stretch to say song magic can command Essence too, with the Old Hearts and Memories

[timber pond]

I guess that's a song too though

[fresh badger]

needolin is more silk than song

[twin dragon]

Yeah, hornet has her own way of making song

[whole holly]

How can silk create memories when essence creates it?

[timber pond]

Well idk is it the silk or the song that's calling the memories

[twin dragon]

Essence seems to hold them in the bullshit realm

[cedar skiff]

song magic is an entirely separate thing from silk seeing as the shamans and various other things not associated with silk utilise it. the weavers just use their silk to uniquely channel it by playing it like a string instrument instead of singing it or ringing fuckass bells.

[twin dragon]

while silk AND song recreate them, since soul holds them in

im gonna SILK MY SONG AHHH

[whole holly]

Knight can see essence before he acquires dream nail when dreamers trap us in dream realm

[cedar skiff]

its still the same principle. why exactly youre able to access certain memories in certain spots would be a more interesting approach. how you access memories is always the same

you play a little tune

[timber pond]

Yeah but that's a realm.

There is no being in skong that uses essence to trap anyone in a realm

Dreamnail allows you to see how essence actually works in the world

[cedar skiff]

see why certain spots allow for the usage of a memory spell is interesting. like is it laced with silk

[timber pond]

Well i assume because silk is concentrated there.

[whole holly]

Essence is fragment memories are created from

[cedar skiff]

LACEd with SILK?

this truly was our silksong once more

[twin dragon]

what

[muted lantern]

i think this is a holdover from when bells weakened gms. You can see it in the snare setter room them having runes placed along them.

[timber pond]

Mabye we will get a DLC where hornet learns a cheat code to acess essence through the silksong

[whole holly]

She was in dream realm because all memories are dreams

[cedar skiff]

ohh nice observation

goddamn

[twin dragon]

she technically does

as she recreates memories

[timber pond]

Ok what is the nightmare heart a memory of

[twin dragon]

extracted from essence that's stored within the silk

[whole holly]

Seer says it

[whole holly]

Also essence

[timber pond]

Also Aprently Unn dreams up green path

So is greenpath just essence?

[cedar skiff]

dreams and memories were weirdly conflated in hk anyway

[timber pond]

Well we dont know if its the same dominion explicitly

[torpid spade]

is there anything stopping us from saying essence isnt stored in silk or whatever but instead that you can use soul via a specific process like song magic to hijack essence and manipulate it
well other than the fact its conjecture

[twin dragon]

No i just don't understand what that phrase is supposed to mean

[timber pond]

Does this just mean that Unn saw some pretty grass and acid and shit somewhere else and just copy pasted???

[whole holly]

Memories are made from essence, hence why essence is fragment of it

[timber pond]

In theroy but we need to be able to witness it as essence to see if its true or not

[cedar skiff]

the word essence is starting to look funny

[torpid spade]

I mean you can also say hornet dreamed up the everbloom
could be similar mechanics where unn dreamed it up then used soul and her incredible power as a higher being to make it real

[fresh badger]

I mean no the weavers did make shrine bells so it makes sense they have a prototype / enhanced shrine bell there

[timber pond]

But like if essence is "just memory" then that implies that its something unn remembered and NOT imagined.

Which is my problem with saying essence is "just memory"

[spark valve]

bells also still do weaken gms

just not enough to matter now

[torpid spade]

I mean theres nothing saying unn is from greener places before moving to hallownest
we see that greenery like greenpath exists with no higher being to feed it

(moss grotto and wisp thicket, specifically)

[timber pond]

Well. If you want to belive theat everything is "remmbered" and nothing is "created" then sure I guess that's fine

[twin dragon]

You could've formulated what you meant this way since the beggining yk

[timber pond]

So it is BOTH memories AND dreams

[whole holly]

Nope it is other way around essence makes up light, dreams, memories and nightmares

[rapid bloom]

From Essence comes everything

The Radiance cannot exist

[whole holly]

Not particularly hard to understand but I get your point

[torpid spade]

snail shamans: what you're proposing... thats a lot
hornet: no actually its possible. a moth did it once it was crazy

[timber pond]

So it makes sense that silk can access it

Because its everything

[rapid bloom]

Silk is magical

But so is song

[torpid spade]

its all fuckin magical. crazy shit

[whole holly]

lol

[torpid spade]

is that a burgerpants face edited onto hornet im sorry

quality

[timber pond]

So why is it bad that silk can acess essence, now that we have established that essence is EVERYTHING?

[whole holly]

I feel just like you , I am criticizing worldbuilding

[timber pond]

You can probably acess essence through soul if you wanted to. Why is it bad that all of the forces that make up a world end up being interconnected?

Like that's good world building guys

We arguing about fuckin nothing

[rapid bloom]

I am just curious of what other Hollow Knight fans think

[whole holly]

Memories are stripped of essence they are made from, Song is stripped of magic replaced with silk, why is everything silk with nothing else playing a role when it should

[timber pond]

Because hornet can only interact with song and silk. Soul becomes silk for hornet, and essence cannot be directly accessed by her.

[torpid spade]

I mean I don't mind that Silksong didn't introduce a lot of new stuff magic wise. It's the second in the series and can focus more on the smaller details than having to establish the setting and magic

[timber pond]

You are bassicaly asking "why cant seer come back from the dead to give hornet another of the last artifact of thier kind"

[rapid bloom]

It kinda explored stuff from the OG HK while also bringing new elements

[whole holly]

That’s lazy though if she can’t interact with essence it doesn’t make sense for to interact with memories

[torpid spade]

Silk being able to manipulate essence? We already had a guy that could manipulate essence and this is an 11th hour powerup
being able to recreate things from memories? I mean Unn already did that. and we had to kill three hard bosses to get their hearts and doom multiple ecosystems for it. checks out narratively and lorewise

[whole holly]

I mean mothkin don’t have to be only ones that interact with essence , hornet is part wyrm

[whole holly]

It’s too lazy

[timber pond]

If silk and song can make spells and essence is interconnected with everything in the world that allows indirect acess through said spells, then what's the problem.

You just want to see the pretty essence particles again

[timber pond]

Mothkin are the only ones who MADE things that allow them to interact with OTHERS essence. Its an artifact to ACESS other realms for them as mortals.

[whole holly]

1. Essence is not that interconnected way you simplify it 2. God forbids person gets tired of repetitive overused silk

[timber pond]

....Its the kingdom of weavers. One that persecuted all other cultures and everything that came before.

Hallownest didn't.

No shit everything is silk, that's the premise.

[whole holly]

Pale King lives in Dreams , Higher Beings can do that, hornet could have inherited the power since she was able to tell she was in dream in godhome

[torpid spade]

https://tenor.com/view/big-lebowski-gif-24334437

[timber pond]

How do you know she could have inherited that power.

[sinful nimbus]

Weavers also utilized song magic like veeeeeery prominently

[timber pond]

Shes only half pale

[whole holly]

You oversimplified my argument , why is silk every type of magic there is

[sinful nimbus]

So like by that logic silk shouldn't be the only fleshed out force

[whole holly]

But song is underused

[timber pond]

Yes. Thats true.

[timber pond]

Its more like soul is every type of magic there is and silk is just a strain of that same magic.

[whole holly]

Even scarlet flame was replicated by team cherry in Father of Flame ritual that burns silk to produce wisps

[sinful nimbus]

Those don't really work similarly they are both just flame aesthetics

[timber pond]

Scarlet flame seems to be nightmare essence

The wispfire is something else

[whole holly]

1. Soul is main one sure but not every type of magic 2. Soul hasn’t displayed those connections 3. Silk is plagiarizing from every force there is except void 4. Silk has no unique traits aside some runes and copying other traits

[whole holly]

Point is even flame ritual was plagiarized by silk

[twin dragon]

Song is literally everywherw?

[timber pond]

Ok think about it this way.

The bassis for ALLLL the forces we know in the world are:

Soul
Essence
Void

Silk is NOT A BASE ELEMENT.

It is Comprised of, and probably exhibits PROPERTIES of the base magics.

Silk based in soul.

Song based in essence.

So the SILKSONG uses SOUL and ESSENCE.

[whole holly]

Threefold Melody, Needolin, Bells the end

[whole holly]

Song essence connection is not cemented particularly

[timber pond]

The melodies of the needolin are a combination of soul and essence.

IF you assume song is essence based.

[twin dragon]

Most characters sing, that has some effect to a degree, even if we didnt get a fucking studio to make songs or smt

[timber pond]

Sure I'll give you that. But, its a suitable explanation. If You take Soul,essence and void into acount as the building blocks of life.

[twin dragon]

Lifeblood mid

I HOPE the dlc doesnt have anything lifeblood related

[timber pond]

Light is likely from essence and smae with lifeblood

[whole holly]

Yeah but they are lazily explained

[twin dragon]

They alr did enough with wormways

[whole holly]

That is true

[muted lantern]

man i can't open tumblr without seeing the most abysmal lore takes possible.

[timber pond]

Not everything needs explaining

[muted lantern]

I have bad news for you.

[twin dragon]

Something as important as the 3 base elements do

[whole holly]

Well that’s just bad worldbuilding

[twin dragon]

And that pmo

[cedar skiff]

really

id always assume people over there would be sorta smart

[twin dragon]

Where is it stated

[cedar skiff]

twitter is where lore goes to die

[timber pond]

Its not because you can piece it together if you sit down to think about it.

I would rather have that than the tedious mechanics of every little thing laid out.

[timber pond]

Hollow knight SHOWS US what they do. It dosent "EXPLAIN"

[twin dragon]

Not rlly eh

Oh wow we get soul from dream nail

[timber pond]

Essence creates things from dreams and memory

[twin dragon]

Thats abt it, and that obscure seer dialogue

[timber pond]

Soul animates

Void takes away and destroys

What more needs "explaining "

[twin dragon]

The connection they have

Tbf i always felt like the void was kinda there

As a core element

[timber pond]

That would entail an original myth

Do you want that?

[muted lantern]

Theres smart posters with some insightful stuff, but a solid half of posts on that site are still in denial about lace, and comically passive aggressive about it.

[twin dragon]

And while it is explained, its rlly obscured

Seer randomly drops it

[whole holly]

If team cherry can pull it off yes

[timber pond]

Well go fight star over it 🤣

Because half of this channel DOSENT want that

I DO WANT THAT

mind you

[twin dragon]

I want act 3+ dlc

[whole holly]

I mean some things in lore are close enough to that tbh, we need cementing

[twin dragon]

And steel city

[timber pond]

I agree. And I think Everbloom implies this.

[twin dragon]

DO NOT tell that to sk lore

Optimism aint real

[whole holly]

I prefer pragmatism

[muted lantern]

sea of sorrow trailer leans heavily on lifeblood imagery, also zylotols dialogue about his master directly foreshadows the dlc

[timber pond]

So essentially what we learned here is:

why do we have critisism with Skongs world building?

We dont have the origin of everything.

In some future hollow knight thing it will probably happen

When Willam pellen is 50

[cedar skiff]

oh yeah its the same on twitter

its hilarious

[sinful nimbus]

Tumblr media literacy my beloved

I saw a post about how Portal 2 is realizing why Glados was in the right for killing everyone (on bring your daughter to work day)

[timber pond]

Well, who knows if we will get to go outside of pharlom. But I cant think of anywhere else they can put DLC unless its in the abyss lol

[cedar skiff]

lacenet and byler shippers are the same species

i cant explain

[timber pond]

I guess the sea of sorrow is already outside of pharloom mabye?

[oak palm]

Oh yeah like yesterday i got caught up in an argument about if shipping widow x first shinner is ethical what do we think of it

It was in sk discussion

[sinful nimbus]

ew

[timber pond]

They wouldn't do that as chracters anyway. Because weavers want children

[oak palm]

I argued widow would see them as sisters at least

[timber pond]

That too

[cedar skiff]

people shipped even worse bullshit in hk its unsurprising

shaknet is right there dude be normal

[oak palm]

Shakra hornet is probably the best ship to come out of ts game

If you ignore shakra is destined to die

[sinful nimbus]

The most popular HK ship wasn't like an adult and a minor though

[muted lantern]

The whole thing of ignore the games text, make a passive aggressive post citing no actual text and running purely on vibes, act like this take that goes against all the text is the only reasonable reading and anyone else is an imbecile, is endlessly frustrating. Theres never an argument pointing to a line that actually supports the idea, the arguments are always "We should just ignore this line because I don't like it." Or "This line clearly means something entirely different because I want it to." But nothing actually in support of the reading. Honestly it bothers me more than the fandom shipping.

[oak palm]

I dont really ship but i can acknowledge it works

[sinful nimbus]

And there were bangers like Soul Master x Emilitia

Willoh x Midwife

Uhh

Ogrisma but that's just canon

[oak palm]

Idk why you would ship willoh with anyone shes like the most nothing character

[muted lantern]

You could argue they arent blood related, though im not sure id agree. but they still pretty clearly were raised as siblings, so it's still weird imo.

[timber pond]

Hornet x Seth is cannon idc bro

[sinful nimbus]

Midwife eats people
Willoh eats people

What happens when two cannibals date eachother

[oak palm]

Yeahh

[oak palm]

Hmmm

Good point

[sinful nimbus]

Also I like Willoh

She actually like has a twist once you come back to her later in the game

[cedar skiff]

zemer and traitor lords child mogs green princes

[oak palm]

I guess yeah

The dream nail thing did surprise me

[oak palm]

I mean green princes were kinda more fleshed out

[timber pond]

True, im fine to be corrected. I go off of vissuals and how things are placed most of the time.

[sinful nimbus]

Wait

[oak palm]

People are so attached to this ship when it is the most mid shit ever

[sinful nimbus]

There was that horse meme but with bell beast and it was the funniest thing ever but the ship in question was lacenet I can no longer laugh at it 😔

[oak palm]

They will ignore the games text or make excuse of how it doesnt count to hold onto it

[sinful nimbus]

Thankg od you can just ping mods now

[oak palm]

Like the only brownie point i can give lacenet is MAYBE after gms died stuff changes for lace but that's still weak

During the game's events not at all

[sinful nimbus]

The cradle dialogue debunks that as well

[oak palm]

I guess it is baked into her nature forever

[sinful nimbus]

Lace's arc is about accepting her life's value regardless of her nature n stuff yeah

[oak palm]

Since it's part of her Creation

Not something gms is actively doing

[cedar skiff]

the ending implies hornet mentorship too but lacenet fans look away every time

this is what i mean when they say theyre just like stranger things fans

the nuance only matters when its for MY ship

a shame truly

[oak palm]

Noooo bro they looked at eachother this cofnirms They are in love

[timber pond]

Her me out guys

The Hollow Knight AND Lace as main chracters of HK 3 Portrait of Ruin style.

[cedar skiff]

but lacenet artists were cooking over genuine fire before silksong

[sinful nimbus]

Plato's cave

[muted lantern]

I especially hate the hollow knight comparison as if lace being a child is treated as a remotely similar thing to thk being empty. The comparison drawn in game that lace doesnt see herself as a real person, like thk. Her being a kid is just a tragic element of her creation, exemplifying the cruel choices of their creators, like the vessels not being able to speak. Also, if they wanted to have her being a kid to be a similar thing to thks emptiness to be a thing thats called into question and proven false, they would have like, shown that? Thk in the same scene it's said to have no mind to think immediately disproves the notion. The look back to ghost on the ledge is not something a mindless creature would do. Not to mention like, everything else in the game goes against the notion the vessels are mindless. And then theres lace, where every aspect of the game reinforces that shes a kid, with literally nothing to imply otherwise.

[sinful nimbus]

We couldn't see second sentinel x hornet

[timber pond]

(No one has played a castelvania game so no one knows wtf im talking about)

[graceful grail]

Its parralelling loosing TK in hollowknight in black egg obviously.

[cedar skiff]

Ive been thinking about them

hornet literally pieces their heart back together

its so fucking genius

[muted lantern]

Theres one good sennet poster on tumblr.

[sinful nimbus]

Clearly the Pale King was just pretending that the Hollow Knight was void and THK is just a regular person with trauma

[oak palm]

I mean it's alright like

It's cool but i feel like the sentinel is js too dedicated to the job

You get what I mean

But i guess when it comes to shipping it doesnt matter really

[sinful nimbus]

Hey kinda like irl ships

[timber pond]

https://tenor.com/view/cargo-ship-cargo-ship-mjc-gif-19570172

[muted lantern]

I mean second sentinels identity being completely based around being a sentinel is kinda what makes them interesting, as its clearly meant to parralell how hornets whole identity became being a sentinel back in hallownest. Finding a meaning outside of their duty is a plotline with a lot of potential.

especially with the haunting gone

[oak palm]

🤔 Could be cooking

[oak palm]

I wonder what would happen to the citadel in the future

[sinful nimbus]

Loser thematic parallels vs chad they're both slave owners

[oak palm]

Would they just. Leave it

Songclave is still there

[graceful grail]

Question, though it’s likely that embrace the void is Most cannon, is Dream no more also viable??

[sinful nimbus]

yes

SOTV alludes to both DNM and ETV

[muted lantern]

both are viable, pick your poison till confirmed otherwise

[oak palm]

Yeah i think it's flashing between two possibilities

[sinful nimbus]

the only poison is ETV DNM is peak

[oak palm]

Honestly i think every ending is canon but silksong just. Doesn't follow some

[timber pond]

Bro dosent want The Hollow Knight chracter development to continue 🥀 🥀

[sinful nimbus]

sealed siblings is still possible because TK has void heart

[graceful grail]

The ending in DNM has Hornet turning around to see broken TK.

And in Sister of the Void she turns around to see Lace alive.

It would mean much more to hornet with the DNM ending

[sinful nimbus]

The Hollow Knight's character is better with a conclusion that matches the themes of its story

Create a new character that one should be finished

[cedar skiff]

but the cute art of the siblings hanging out

[timber pond]

A chracter finding new meaning when there is none left for him, not to mention a chracter the audience already knows, is much more compelling.

[sinful nimbus]

Just draw it as a shade

[cedar skiff]

i like when they draw thk all bandaged up

[sinful nimbus]

Not within the context of HK no

[cedar skiff]

its aura

[sinful nimbus]

Just cover its disability up wow

[timber pond]

If team cherry did not belive in that possibilty they would not have made Embrace the Vois

[sinful nimbus]

I don't respect team cherry as writers so

[muted lantern]

The citadel would probably last a while,but it would probably break down without the underworkers or someone to expel exhaust. Most machinery would probably collapse.

[timber pond]

Referr to article A

[oak palm]

Funnily you don't even have to fight phantom for the true ending

[cedar skiff]

they dont write they leave it up for interpretation

[timber pond]

https://tenor.com/view/big-lebowski-gif-24334437

[cedar skiff]

maybe the real writing was all the sk lore arguments🙁

[muted lantern]

Ye but they probably wouldn't last long. I think they are probably past help with how much they've degraded.

[timber pond]

True bestie

[sinful nimbus]

Team Cherry trying to elicit as much discourse as possible so they have more text to feed to their language learning AI:

[oak palm]

Yeah\

[sinful nimbus]

Always bet on Lost Phantom in DLC

[oak palm]

Faded Phantom

[sinful nimbus]

Hidden superboss would be so tuff

[oak palm]

Can't wait for Silkspun Lace

[cedar skiff]

ITS GENIUS

[oak palm]

They're already using ai smh

[cedar skiff]

bro they need to do another reddit ama just cause the questions this time around would be awesome

i dont even want lore traps i want one billion lace age questions

[oak palm]

new ama would be GENERATIONAL

For clearing up stupid shit

[sinful nimbus]

blah blah silksong rewrites happened when chatGPT launched

[timber pond]

They would just say what they said in thr bloom berg interview.
"If its in the work its im the work, we cant cheat"

[muted lantern]

Inb4 the devs give a noncommittal answer to avoid the angry mobs

[sinful nimbus]

"Yeah uh maybe Godseeker locked herself in a cage with the lock on the outside idk man"

"And yeah the dude who got skinned might still be alive"

[muted lantern]

Godseeker is just a freak like that

[sinful nimbus]

Lace age comes secondary to gruzzer milk though

[timber pond]

Quirrel essence ghost in the lifeblood essence dimension in sea of sorrow since he fell into blue lake

[muted lantern]

To what?

[sinful nimbus]

And if we are being fr lacenet fans aren't gonna listen to that

[cedar skiff]

earlier i thought of a lace fight that’s actually just gms controlling lace (awesome visual representation attached)

[muted lantern]

Godseeker got put in time out for being a little too obsessed with the monarchs

[sinful nimbus]

Milk from a gruz mother

[muted lantern]

Is that a thing that's mentioned?

[sinful nimbus]

Not sure what else it could refer to

[sinful nimbus]

No that's why TC must be asked

[graceful grail]

At least she succeeded in saving someone this time.

[timber pond]

So what just like, a dual fight with GMS and lace.

That would be fucking chaos😂

[cedar skiff]

imagine another set of arms like

it would be fun as hell lowkey

[sinful nimbus]

Why are we giving TC ideas for more lace fights 🥀

[cedar skiff]

the boulders of gms and the actually compelling fight mechanics of lace = 🔥

untapped potential

[muted lantern]

Always a parallel I enjoyed.

[cedar skiff]

since the third one was kind of a whatever gimmick

[muted lantern]

Lace takes up phantoms pin and challenges hornet to savage beast fly jousting.

[cedar skiff]

i truly believe thatll happen like

to get the phantom fight you needolin memory the rejuvenation tank and when you stagger phantom lace shows up

[muted lantern]

It would allow the devs to include another lace fight and another beast fly in one

[cedar skiff]

its genius but the third savage beastfly will just be no floor

[timber pond]

Just give us the ability to make our own boss rushes.

[muted lantern]

14 plasmified zangos in a row when

[timber pond]

Well idk if they would let duplicates but that would be funny

Endurance challenge :Zango ,beastly 2 Unraveled and Groal all in a row

[muted lantern]

I still think it would be tuff if bretta showed up in pharloom and was actually a great warrior now.

[craggy smelt]

yeees

I would love to create my own pantheon

[cedar skiff]

truly endless replayability

[muted lantern]

So is there a possibility pk was assassinated by the masters? I remember something in skong about the masters hunting down those who tampered with void.

[dense ridge]

When I got to the Halfway Home and Criege was talking about "some lass upstairs who wants to see you" I kinda hoped it would be Bretta

[rapid bloom]

This

We actually never got to learn how he died

But it is strange

How can his presence be erased but his power remained?

If the Void consumed him, there would be nothing for the Godseekers

[muted lantern]

Its certainly possible, and kinda implied by hornets wing mold entry. But it feels like there should be black tears if so

[timber pond]

I am primarily Suspect That Kings Moulds and Wingsmoulds are similar in vissual design To sharpe and Steel hearts.

At least the Armour used to make them

Hornet Knowing of thier Civilization May be implication of some sort of trade.

[rapid bloom]

I mean-

[muted lantern]

Its someone else's I heard once, I can't take credit for it

[rapid bloom]

Wait

We are jumping into deep waters here

[timber pond]

I said it

At one piont i Brought it up

[rapid bloom]

Because we don't know much of the City of Steel

And Sharpe 100% comes from there

[timber pond]

I simply think team cherry love to lean into Small vissual hints for storytelling

[muted lantern]

Sharpe being revealed to be pks murderer would be so funny

[timber pond]

Wingsmmoulds Look like him

im just wondering if the metal used for the shells is some kind of universal practice, or if it originated in The City of Steel

after silksong, we know silk comes from pharloom and is woven by weavers.

so Mould Proprietary designs by another Civilization with deeper knowledge would not be uncanny

Would make it all the more ironic as well:

The Pale Kings workshop made up of things from OTHER kingdoms, to make his last eternal🔥

[cedar skiff]

id prefer if pks dead stayed up to interpretation

[rapid bloom]

So we really do not know...

Unless there is some other note left that I did not see

Because the Everbloom is not a god, like you said

But it's strange the Pale King stood out

Maybe because he is a Wyrm as well as a Pale being?

Wyrms by default are pretty strong in the HK Universe

Most probably, I do not really know...

They could have felt that energy

If it wasn't for the Radiance or Shade Lord, the Pale King would have been their god

100%

Pharloom?

That wouldn't be a problem if the Pale King lived

[cedar skiff]

this is my better visualisation but i truly believe as a radiant lost lace fight this would be more effective than lost lace then lost gms

let gms be evil

i never considered theyd all be aware of pharloom

well hornet somehow fucking isnt

shes sort of washed for not immediately clocking the circumstances

all things considered

[timber pond]

Pale king forgot the note to hornet in his drawer " PS: you are going to stay at grandmas house"

[cedar skiff]

i know lost lace is effectively gms giving up for the sake of lace but i like the idea of her, in desperation, hiding behind yet another layer of control

there are no boulders to pull down in the void

[normal imp]

so do you think only void can actually kill higher beings

[rapid bloom]

Pale beings

So if it can kill them

It can certainly kill anything

[lone folio]

Probably?

[normal imp]

FINALLY someone who arees

[spark valve]

Hornet is capable of killing gms without it it’s not the only thing that can kill them

[lone folio]

I mean hornet binds gms

[spark valve]

Killing her

[lone folio]

Yeah but like wouldn't she rather just end her instead of becoming the new weaver queen?

[spark valve]

She loses control but gms is still dead

[lone folio]

I mean

Kind of

[normal imp]

that doesent count she absorbed her but she is still alive much like how Eva is not dead but simply part of hornet except GMS can actually take control of hornet due to her power

[spark valve]

The nightmare’s heart is also dying with no void involvement, radiance being forgotten is death, etc

Void just isn’t the only way HBs die

[plain gazelle]

the whole NMH ritual implies it would die without revitalization yeah

[normal imp]

we dont know if mothra would have died and the grimm troupe were only banished

it might only weaken her

being forgotten

[lone folio]

Radiance would of probably died or it would have been so weak and powerless that she would be considered dead

[spark valve]

The troupe ritual being necessary to prolong the heart’s existence means it would cease to exist and we do know rad would’ve died

‘The only death that matters’

[normal imp]

the nightmare hearts power is placed into the grimmkin

[spark valve]

Ok you didn’t read my message

[lone folio]

Yeah but like why not just end gms with her nail without binding her?

[normal imp]

i did

[spark valve]

The ritual is described as prolonging the heart’s existence which means when the ritual doesn’t happen the heart will eventually stop existing

Which is death

[lone folio]

Wait why did hornet want too set the trap again?

[normal imp]

hmmmmm mabye its because Grimm isnt a higher being

hear me out

[spark valve]

I didn’t say Grimm I said the heart

[normal imp]

ok the heart

[lone folio]

Okay I was just talking to scoot I didn't even notice the crazy side plot

[normal imp]

hear me out btw

[spark valve]

It’s just going to be begging the question

It’s not even the only hb that can die without void involvement

[lone folio]

This is why you read the fine print

[lone folio]

And if there isnt... Eliminate...

[spark valve]

Hell WL is experiencing biological aging lmao

[lone folio]

Gods of storms and rain could also be dead

[lucid atlas]

I think she kind of implies that it's her nature as a Pale Higher Being to seek power and she simply couldn't resist the alure.
Or that she couldn't just kill a God like that

[normal imp]

so the radience is the god of essence so she is the main form of essence as in the heart is simply an entity akin to a parasite holding a subsection of the dream realm not a real higher being

[spark valve]

They are dead they’re just also probably not HBs

[spark valve]

That’s not what she is

[normal imp]

I think your wrong

[lone folio]

Shes a god made of essence. Not the god of essence

[spark valve]

Essence existed before her and will exist after her, she doesn’t have absolute dominion over it or whatever

[lone folio]

yeah

[normal imp]

yea but dreams itself are essence she is the god of dream and exist in the dream world

[normal imp]

you cant prove that

[spark valve]

A god of dream

[spark valve]

Godseeker mode literally takes place in a dream after her death

[normal imp]

oh fuck off that was a typo

[spark valve]

No it’s a considerable difference between the god of dreams and a god of dreams

She’s not the only one

[normal imp]

you saw it was getting fucked up and starting to be destroyed like the collapse of a structure

[normal imp]

the whole basis of my theory is that the heart is more of a parasite then a higher being

[spark valve]

They aren’t even the only two

Unn also uses dream magic and there’s lifeblood

Hell even pk uses it

[normal imp]

using dream powers and being dream entities are different

[spark valve]

Lifeblood creature is another dream entity

[normal imp]

no it fucking isnt its in the physical world

[spark valve]

No it’s not

It’s encountered exclusively in dreams

Godhome and the lifeblood dream in abyss

[normal imp]

its also in the abyss

[spark valve]

In a dream

[normal imp]

well do we even know if that was really a dream as it can be accessed without a dreamnail and that only happens once and there is an entire animation for it. It isnt impossible they just wanted a good way to teleport him out of that location

[spark valve]

Yes it’s a dream

[normal imp]

or is it

[spark valve]

It’s not even the only dream you end up in without a dream nail as dreamers can involuntarily shove you into one

[spark valve]

Yes, unambiguously

[normal imp]

or is it

[tender valley]

Dam

[normal imp]

are you sure about that

[spark valve]

Yes as is everyone with eyes

[normal imp]

or do you not have eyes

[tender valley]

Its dream things

Idk what they're called

[spark valve]

It’s saturated with essence particles, it has the clouds unique to dreams, it dissolves into essence and the knight wakes up afterwards

[normal imp]

do we know if that thing is really a higher being

[tender valley]

What?

[normal imp]

or are those clouds unique to dreams

[blissful harbor]

endless floor level clouds are unique to the dream realm yes

[normal imp]

you know that should just be on the hk description

[normal imp]

yea I was just ragebaiting

tf is TC

[blissful harbor]

i mean some things can be left intentionally vague on purpose

[normal imp]

anyways how about you great shade lord do you think that only void can kill higher beings

[spark valve]

And then they decided to just do lifeblood infection

[blissful harbor]

no

[gentle aspen]

hm

[normal imp]

well you know its a rage eat rage world

[blissful harbor]

maybe the only way to like, kill one with force
but like as shown with Rad and Silk, you don’t gotta literally murder someone to “kill” them
assuming hornet doesn’t go batshit insane, she basically killed Silk binding her, and Rad was, basically, dying while being forgotten and sealed

[gentle aspen]

<@&283547423706447872> self admitted to arguing points just to piss people off

[spark valve]

Hornet does go batshit insane but she still killed gms

[normal imp]

dude pissing people off isnt a federal offense

otherwise you would have been banned already @gentle aspen

[blissful harbor]

after weaver queen? is there really a way to tell
if the binding affected her personality thst is

[gentle aspen]

intentionally attempting to do so is against server rules yes

[blissful harbor]

or well, i’d assume a HB would indeed effect her, but like yk

[normal imp]

yea name it asshat

[spark valve]

The silk and soul stuff with caretaker where she says defeating gms will lead to her evil genes taking over and her taking her place

[gentle aspen]

I mean she splayed silk across the entirety of the citadel

[timber pond]

Idk man. Lifeseed/lightseed IS a parcel that's drawn in the first game IMO.

[blissful harbor]

overload version of what happened with the intro cutscene

[gentle aspen]

they’re both seeds yes

Not really enough of a parallel

[normal imp]

oh wait you dont you liar

[limpid summit]

They don’t even actually look similar

[rustic finch]

Do y’all think sprintmaster swift could be connected to the dashmaster?

[timber pond]

The vissals, names, and behavior is extremely similar. Its a little more than a name parallel

[limpid summit]

It was crazy but you look at them and they’re just different

[rustic finch]

I mean they both involve speed in their character

[gentle aspen]

the behavior isn’t similar

[limpid summit]

Almost certainly yes

[rustic finch]

And both (presumably) wear blue

[limpid summit]

He may be a former Dashmaster or hold both titles

[normal imp]

that isnt toxic not is that any real drama

[limpid summit]

Swift dashes down just like Dashmaster allows us to do

[timber pond]

Lifeseeds just have a tuft of some kind where lightseeds dont

[rustic finch]

I hope we could get more content with him in the future

[blissful harbor]

don’t we see dash master on the statue though

[rustic finch]

I would like to see more of him past his cool minigame

[gentle aspen]

leg count is different
legs are directly connected to lightseeds while lifeseeds have a sort of base/bud

[spark valve]

Yes but apple said a former dashmaster as in someone who used to hold the same title

[gentle aspen]

and lifeseeds don’t ever pile into a dead corpse to raise it back to life in the first game

[blissful harbor]

yet

yall know it’s happening

[limpid summit]

Anonymous Shade boss fight

[gentle aspen]

ew

[timber pond]

In theroy, mabye its because of how long Lifeseeds existed? Like,Lightseeds haven't existed in the world lingering enough to gain characteristics like that.

[spark valve]

In the first game, hopefully its too late for that

[gentle aspen]

that’s not a theory

that’s kinda just speculation

[timber pond]

I said in theroy

[gentle aspen]

you also don’t know when lightseeds were created either

[limpid summit]

Wrf

[gentle aspen]

don’t you have anything better to do aside from spam reacting to my messages

[timber pond]

Well, yea, but they seem to exist in the world before the infection became a manifested phenomena, since recent historical record is more plentiful thanks to what lemm says.

[gentle aspen]

?

[random harbor]

Hunter's Journal: Lightseed

Description:
A single-celled organism, completely infected. Scurries about simple-mindedly.

Hunter's notes:
Strange air has been seeping down from above for years. Some of the air became liquid, and some of that liquid became flesh, and some of that flesh came to life. I don't know what to make of it.

Dream Nail:
...LIGHT...
...BRIGHT...
...GLOW...

@kingoclowns used /journal name: Lightseed

[gentle aspen]

I mean sure they existed as single celled organisms maybe

[timber pond]

Im saying lifeblood predates the infection

[muted lantern]

Are lightseeds just infected lifeseeds?

[spark valve]

No

[timber pond]

Because the infection is just a physical manifestation of the radiance

[gentle aspen]

They’re not

[timber pond]

Lifeblood is just something else manifesting in the world, and they have been for a much longer time for a much diffrent purpose

[gentle aspen]

aside from the physical differences already told their journal entries show that

[gentle aspen]

and again, you don’t know that

Actually nvm

Forgot joni

[blissful harbor]

actually we do

[gentle aspen]

get outta here

really?

[blissful harbor]

ya

silly

[limpid summit]

It does?

[normal imp]

do you think pharloom would have fallen just as much as hallownest if the radience was placed in it

[limpid summit]

Wait I mean it makes sense

[limpid summit]

Yes

[timber pond]

Unn follows the same principle , but dreams greenpath instead

[spark valve]

The abyss dream’s entrance isn’t present in the memory though and Joni could be post infection

[gentle aspen]

well yeah

[timber pond]

So its never been unprecedented

[normal imp]

ok how about hallownest if silk was in charge

[limpid summit]

Wdym

Could GMS enact the haunting?

[gentle aspen]

hallownest wouldn’t exist if silk was there

[limpid summit]

No she would be killed

[gentle aspen]

and if she randomly spawned after the kingdom was built she’d just get killed by PK

[timber pond]

Higher beings dream physical phenomena into the world all the time

[gentle aspen]

she isn’t a dream based hb he has no reason to not beat her ass

[cedar skiff]

pk wouldnt stand a chance against gms rocks

pk is like 4'8 what does he even do

[limpid summit]

Hydrogen Wyrm vs coughing grandma

[gentle aspen]

he has infinite soul

plus what he does is like

more impressive than what gms does

[spark valve]

Hyper beam

[normal imp]

ok imagine blank slate hallownest infection doesent exist no weavers except hornet at the kindoms completion

[cedar skiff]

no onscreen feats in hollow knight 🤫 gms mogs

[normal imp]

would granny take over

[gentle aspen]

no

[crystal marsh]

absolutely not

[gentle aspen]

Hallownest has a military

and two deities at its helm

[cedar skiff]

ok realistically pk really wouldnt let that happen but its really funny thinking about 4'8 pk facing off against a real threat

[gentle aspen]

and deals with another

and yknow
the void underneath the kingdom that she could be shoved into

[limpid summit]

A short man is built of rage

[gentle aspen]

not that it would come to that

[cedar skiff]

pull the herrah and offer gms to have a child with her

so she finally gets over herself

w pale king

[swift needle]

Lowkey WE cracking pk ✌️

😂

[cedar skiff]

hes just so tiny i cant take him seriously at times

[normal imp]

pale king would probably fuck her up honestly though he would need some void

[swift needle]

Lowkey he has aura

[normal imp]

could higher beings be thralled

[swift needle]

😭

Canon aura vro

[cedar skiff]

who wore it better

real question

[normal imp]

he is what happens when you shampoo 30 minutes every day

[cedar skiff]

i like how all of hornets outfits have that neck thingy

collar

whatever the hell

[cedar skiff]

looking at this sprite honestly the most exciting thing to me if pk made a reappearance in sk would be how he looks

[swift needle]

These guys had three wings

Like the pk

[cedar skiff]

ari's art just changed sm

[swift needle]

Interesting to know the pk MAYBE inspired from that

Also that the bug is ancient

[limpid summit]

She had that shit on actually

You ever think PK saw the fit and smiled to himself

[swift needle]

Sad to think he commited infantcide

Wait

Is it even infantcide

If the vessels weren't like ACTUAL children

[edgy nebula]

pk

[swift needle]

Which had no feelings

[cedar skiff]

the fact she wore a whole other outfit while interacting with the other side of her family. does pk even know about the auraful red

its actually a really interesting detail though

sells the divide well

itd be fun to see hornet in a pv esque armour

[muted lantern]

"You can't go out looking like that, young lady! This is a silver cloak household." -pk probably.

[timber pond]

Red is offensive to hallownest

[muted lantern]

I like to think her wardrobe is like this: https://youtu.be/6LaHKiV8ZGI

like 20 red cloaks and one white one

[cedar skiff]

god im so glad they decided to saturate that red up

it just looks so nice against most places in pharloom

and even in sands of karak where the reds more desaturated

thank you mama herrah and the weavers for planning ahead

[north sierra]

i love how seth even points out how much attention we bring to us

"i definetively wouldnt forget someone like you"

[edgy nebula]

im watching fatbrett's greyroot video and im already annoyed

[north sierra]

whats that?

[edgy nebula]

https://youtu.be/6jDrTCvJEpk?si=s2LJuAVvzv_PhBcK

[spark valve]

Just watch the alien movies they’ll probably tell you as much about greyroot as this

[neat wolf]

hornet is void

[craggy smelt]

THAT DEFIES THE LAWS OF TRUTH!

[muted lantern]

Hornet is lifeblood

[neat wolf]

hornet is infected

[muted lantern]

Hornet is hivesteel

[craggy smelt]

that might become true

[muted lantern]

Hornet is grand mother silk

[wet oriole]

hornet is pale oil

[craggy smelt]

speaking of nightmare essence
I hope Sea of Sorrow is as big a deal for the lore as Grimm Troupe was for the original game

[muted lantern]

Do you think the pale king uses pale cooking oil?

mmmm pale french fries.

[craggy smelt]

now I'm hungry

[spark valve]

PK doesn’t need to eat

[muted lantern]

Thank you for clarifying this very serious question

[craggy smelt]

God doesn't need to eat either, but He still loves the smell of barbecue

[muted lantern]

Radiance is destroying my kingdom, but i just wanna grill!

[craggy smelt]

if PK doesn't eat, why'd he take the form of a fork?

checkmate, atheists

[muted lantern]

Hes the right size for his wife to use him as a utensil

[oak palm]

Hornet is Essence.

[craggy smelt]

aren't we all...

[muted lantern]

Just realized my reply to this probably came off way meaner than i intended, mb

[edgy nebula]

i hope we get a hidden dreams esque dlc whch expands the old hearts lore

every successor deserves a memory area

[craggy smelt]

was there mention of a cut line about the 'resonance' of the land? something Weaver related?

I had a theory that the Godseekers were doing something like that to bring their 'gods' into Godhome... tapping into the memories of the kingdom

not individual people, but the land itself - hence 'Pantheon of Hallownest' having layers of meaning
which explains how they're getting 'gods' that shouldn't exist any more (like the dreams nommed by the dream nail)

[oak palm]

Elegy of the deep has so much untapped potential

You could literally give fucking Groal a memory area

Lost Clearwater

Some shit

[craggy smelt]

Nicewater

people really want coral forest, but I think that hope's been dashed

[muted lantern]

Wouldn't it be called stillwater, since they are stilkin?

[craggy smelt]

if Sea of Sorrow implements diving mechanics for Hornet just swimming down normally... that's going to be worrying
we'll have to check every body of water in the game to see if you can dive below and find new content

[cedar skiff]

wait that’s genius goddamn

[muted lantern]

can't wait to explore under the maggot lake

maybe there will be more maggots

[cedar skiff]

silk soar had me running around like crazy on my first playthrough

[craggy smelt]

it's like in Blasphemous, when you get that item that lets you survive falling down 'bottomless' pits
turns out...

there was tons of shit down there after all

[cedar skiff]

how many bodies of water are there even

that would be be dive able

[craggy smelt]

Shellwood, Weavenest Atla, Greymoor... those are the big ones

[cedar skiff]

anyway go all in on sea of sorrows karak lore

[muted lantern]

I have to play blasphemous again

[cedar skiff]

atla…

[muted lantern]

never did the dlc

[craggy smelt]

the DLC rules

for both games

[muted lantern]

i remember liking the base game a lot, more than hollow knight at the time.

I wasn't that into hk until like a little before ss came out

when i replayed the whole game and did all the pantheon stuff

[craggy smelt]

I hate you
(waited years in agony)

bane voice: I was born in this darkness!

[muted lantern]

I had played hollow knight pretty early after it came out, but never finished it. The dreamers section i found consistently boring.

[craggy smelt]

i'm trying to get my brother to play HK, he can't push through

he and his gf are huge elden ring nerds, platinumed it, did erdtree...

I'm like 'I want you to play one little MV...'

this is how we grow apart, I guess...

[muted lantern]

Elden ring and hk have fairly different appeals

Hks bosses are a lot simpler

at least pre dlc

[edgy nebula]

which successor do we think is the strongest? or do we think theyre of the same strength

[spark valve]

Khann is a fraud so karm

[edgy nebula]

my goat is not a fraud and he never has been

[spark valve]

Khann has two ns in his name because one is for each attack he has

[muted lantern]

Karms the best fighter, khann and nyleth have the most control over their environment. Khann literally shaped coral tower into existance, at least thats what shakra implies, i imagine him as like king bumi from avatar.

I think khans fight is way underselling how powerful he actually was

[sinful nimbus]

OK taMMo

[spark valve]

At least my attacks are targeted

[craggy smelt]

khann probably had the more powerful nation

[muted lantern]

He seemed to be directly opposed to gms rather than the citadel

his corpses needolin referring to the pale light and all

[edgy nebula]

oh wow

shakra directly states they prolly had the power to rival the citadel

[craggy smelt]

there's a line from someone about how they ruled half of pharloom at one point

[edgy nebula]

shamans yeah

[craggy smelt]

karm and the ants are bad-ass, but they seemingly never progressed beyond the 'opera house' tech level

[muted lantern]

I think they only fell because gms straight up ruined them at full strength, since they were opposed pre citadel.

[edgy nebula]

shakra does say builders, plural

id imagine it was khann and possibly some karak gor, or the past kings

probably the past kings

[spark valve]

Karak actually dried up well past gms’s time

[edgy nebula]

how so?

[spark valve]

Memorium has the crabs. Memorium was built well after gms’s rule

[edgy nebula]

i feel like it's rather likely the citadel took every crab from karak, since we see a citadel bench in karak, likely for workers to catch them

[muted lantern]

Sure the environment probably lasted, but i think khanns dynasty fell during gms's time, due to his corpses needolin dialogue referring to standing against the pale light rather than the citadel.

[spark valve]

His dynasty’s fall is pretty clearly connected to drying up

[edgy nebula]

we dont know how it dried up is the thing

we see weaver influence in mt. fay directly above it and we never see any citadel influence in karak other than the bench and elevator

[spark valve]

He could’ve resisted gms and also fallen while the citadel was around those aren’t contradictory but also the pale light can apply to the citadel just fine

[grave stream]

dumb question, but what specifically makes hornet gendered?
or did herrah just go "yeah you're a woman because i said so"

[edgy nebula]

she was born a woman, called the gendered child because her siblings, the vessels, have no gender

[grave stream]

i know but how can she be declared a woman
what makes her a woman

eh whatever

new topic

[blissful harbor]

sex and gender might be being mixed here, but my line of thinking is the vessels never had a chance to develop any identity for themselves, hence them being genderless
hornet on the other hand did

TK is genderless cause it’s a non binary icon tho that’s all its own identity

[grave stream]

we are talking about a crossbred bug so there is not much sense here

[craggy smelt]

I do tend to think that TC was conflating sex and gender at the time these concepts were being developed, making the vessels sexless as well as genderless in terms of identity

[muted lantern]

Weavers are all female, so i assume that overode the wyrm genderlessness.

[spark valve]

Wyrms aren’t genderless

[grave stream]

so they reproduce asexually?

[edgy nebula]

no

[grave stream]

bro he is the pale KING

[spark valve]

King is used as a neutral term as is lord

But pk is referred to as he/him fairly regularly

[grave stream]

yeah

hes not the pale 📏

[muted lantern]

One dev note implies the possibility, but thats not exactly canon. It would definitely explain why hornet being gendered was something notable if it was atypical for wyrm children, so i generally go with it. But thats just speculation on my part.

[spark valve]

It was atypical for PK’s children for a different reason than being part wyrm

[grave stream]

by the way is tk the shade lord in sk true ending

[muted lantern]

yeah the two possible endings that could be canon both require void heart therefore making them lord of shades

[muted lantern]

true they did all go to the beach that makes you nonbinary.

[muted lantern]

I'll have to read through it later but this is really well formatted!

[limpid summit]

Oh woah

What’s this about scoot

Prime lore is back

I like this a lot

Very comprehensive

My one thing is that I don’t think Tiso calling TK’s shell pale means anything about its paleness specifically (even though it is)

Tiso doesn’t know anything about Soul

TK is just very white

[dire lynx]

the palestag dialogue is saying the stag is touched pale, not that its trail became pale
otherwise good

[crystal marsh]

@spark valve @sinful nimbus thought you both would like to read this

[spark valve]

it's literally just the shit people have been saying for years

plus random misconceptions

people still not getting the mask maker metaphor after silksong is funny

[stray fog]

Masks are made of pale ore

Another point to add to the mask section

[stray fog]

The point is to aggregate all that info in one place

Nvm I missed that part

[edgy nebula]

i wonder if the way lace is able to be stunted mentally is due to silk's connection to memories somehow

actually nevermind i lowkenuinely havent a clue what im on about

[stray fog]

I disagree with the monarch wings part

Its ethereal because its thw pale king's wings

[edgy nebula]

theyre from a monarchfly

[craggy smelt]

I wonder why Pharloom's ancient masks have different patterns from the one in Hallownest...

[stray fog]

They kinda look like runes

But that would be crazy

[craggy smelt]

the rounded lines on the Hallownest ones sort've match the style of AC lore tablets and similar
whereas the Pharloom ones seem like they have angular, layered frames over banded plates

hrmm

[stray fog]

They're also said to shimmer in the dark

I think sylph still refers to air spirits because of salubra's blessing

• salubra is a slug, and she appears like an air spirit during the blessing
• the blessing regenerates soul (just like sylphsong)

[open quarry]

Wdym ?

[viscid ridge]

Yeah i agree with the sylph interpretation, but i personally doubt that salubra is such a slug. We see corpses of what i guess to be the outer layer of the slug in the kitchen and pin room where the pale oil is found, so my guess is that it looks something like that. I think salubras blessing is either a spell of some kind, or team cherry didn't fully consider the lore implications when they added it 😅

[stray fog]

Can you send a screenshot of that corpse

[edgy nebula]

it's this thing in the background

it's also found in the other citadel room with pale oil

here's a clearer sprite

[muted lantern]

I think it's more related to soul, perhaps she has some control over it since lace is purely made out of her silk (her soul)

[edgy nebula]

maybe yeah

[edgy nebula]

there's also THIS sprite but i havent a clue where it's found

[worldly jetty]

That might be an egg

Of sort

[worldly jetty]

Either an egg or a shell/container

[edgy nebula]

it's likely the shell of a sylphean slug

[muted lantern]

Lace might be a part of gms that she molded to be her daughter.

[muted lantern]

But a slug probably wouldn't have a shell no?

[blissful harbor]

one would think not

[muted lantern]

I like the idea that salubra is a sylphean slug, since her ability is similar to sylphsong

Not my theory btw. I forget who first proposed it

[edgy nebula]

well, we've never seen a sylphean slug so we dont know for sure

youd imagine they look different than normal slugs so i wouldnt be surprised

i personally subscribe to the theory that henrick is a sylphean slug

[muted lantern]

henrick?

[edgy nebula]

henrick

the caravan's steed

he mysteriously disappears as soon as festival of the flea starts, which is when they get their pale oil

[muted lantern]

NOOOOOOOO

HENRICK NOOOOO

[worldly jetty]

What's a slyphean slug

Gooorbbbb

[muted lantern]

You can't give me a named character and then tell me they were butchered for my weapon upgrade in the same breath!

[edgy nebula]

bugs which produce pale oil within their bile gland

[worldly jetty]

Where did this theory come from

[edgy nebula]

he isn't canonically named henrick, i think the community just named him that, a la ass jim

[strange totem]

In trial of the fool i keep dying at wave 9

[muted lantern]

well, sylphean slugs is referenced in pale oil description

[edgy nebula]

it's said in the pale oil's item description

[worldly jetty]

Hmmm

[worldly jetty]

Bilewater or ducts prolly cuz it has that swampy mud

[rapid bloom]

What was it again?

[strange totem]

flying mantis

[rapid bloom]

Let them use their attack then jump and hit, or use Mantis Claw, get above em and pogo

[lone folio]

Honestly this is better then the last version

Unfortunately I can't read it very well since I am on phone and the quality is very bad on phone

And reading some of the responses to it there are some issues but otherwise great job recreating the original one

[stray fog]

I wonder what the file name is for this sprite

I know file names aren't canon but still

[stray fog]

https://tenor.com/view/james-doakes-james-doakes-sus-face-james-doakes-suspicious-james-doakes-reaction-erik-king-gif-14404252364057104628

[stray fog]

What I've marked in this image is

1. what I assume to be a focusing crest
2. a needle

[whole holly]

Focusing Crest has Specific Shape, Weathered Mask does have Focusing Crest

Kingsoul is somewhat similar or void heart

[whole holly]

that may be marking unique to AC

[stray fog]

True

It might just be a crest

Not focusing

Just a crest

[whole holly]

all Higher Beings seem inclined to control but Pale Beings most, despite fact that radiance was not Pale Being she was still controlling to perpetuate her power, Unn, Nightmare Heart seem to want to sustain themselves...?

[stray fog]

Yes

[stray fog]

The radiance did that so that she wouldn't be forgotten

[whole holly]

it seems that remembering radiance sustains her i guess?

[stray fog]

So she fits in the sustenance category

[whole holly]

GMS made Weavers to sustain her with silk and song though?

[hexed elk]

hey, just quick question about hornet

[stray fog]

I think that's true but idk for sure

[torpid spade]

GMS produces silk herself and the song was made to keep her imprisoned

[hexed elk]

did hornet got captured and transported to Pharloom because of her ability to generate silk by shell which pharloom lost ability to?

[whole holly]

Void Entity seems to be outlier because they aren't traditional higher being, they are Shade ascended with focus

[stray fog]

In the widow cutscene, Weavers say that they sustain gms with a song