sk-lore

[peak stratus]

deeeefinitely havent seen yet, im at 79% completion if that says anything

[muted lantern]

Have you never heard that one before?

[edgy nebula]

no what is it

[muted lantern]

A list of characters that would be comically bad to smoke weed with.

[edgy nebula]

ouuu hmm

[muted lantern]

As if in a blunt rotation, sharing one joint

I feel like lace would be the worst.

[edgy nebula]

greyroot would be pretty bad

[muted lantern]

Oh god

Oh i gotta add skynx

Styx would be fine, probably

[dire lynx]

the only similarity between the two is that they are plants that sit on a wall and vaguely the mask shape

[muted lantern]

Lace, nuu, and runt are not allowed to smoke.

oh, grand gourmand.

and bell hermit.

[edgy nebula]

lowkey id add hornet too

[muted lantern]

Mergwin

[muted lantern]

I don't think weed would even effect her, she cant get drunk

[edgy nebula]

oh that's true

[muted lantern]

Old penitent would narc

[edgy nebula]

ill do you one better

the great gourmand

[muted lantern]

I already said him!

[edgy nebula]

damn

[muted lantern]

Could eva even smoke. Would they have to like hotbox her containment pod.

[edgy nebula]

grindle would be pretty crazy

[muted lantern]

Trobbio too

[edgy nebula]

i dont feel like he'd be that bad

[muted lantern]

Oh we forgot kratt

Hes not invited

For dream blunt rotation it's Garmond and zaza (for obvious reasons) Shakra, moss druid (she brought the weed), pilby, pinstress, and crull and benjin.

[edgy nebula]

add ballow to this list too

hes chill

[muted lantern]

True

[edgy nebula]

anyways we should prolly stop, since this is offtopic

[muted lantern]

It's integral to the lore. but yeah. i only started it because this chat went pretty quiet

[stray grove]

Alright, if you’re not actually going to engage with the discussion in good faith I don’t see much of a reason to repeat myself. You’re welcome to your own interpretation at the end of the day

[dire lynx]

that is literally all you have, they are plants who sit on walls

why shoudl we assume that nyleth had a humanoid form at any point

[visual glacier]

Is that the arguement?

[edgy nebula]

rotk is arguing that nyleth and isma are very similar, likely the same species, #1 unn fan is arguing against

id say the evidence is there

[dire lynx]

they dont even have the same number of eyes

[edgy nebula]

they look relatively similar in appearance save for a few details and they do similar stuff, i wouldnt be surprised if isma was a weaker or younger nyleth, so to speak

[visual glacier]

I’d say that there isn’t enough similarity and from her needolin dialogue it can be inferred that she was probably always that way

Also nyleth has nothing to do with acid

[dire lynx]

yeah, nyleth has no acid connection at all

[edgy nebula]

i honestly never knew, did nyleth make the acid or did the fruit just protect from it

[visual glacier]

You mean Isma?

[dire lynx]

isma is cited as the source of the acid blight

[visual glacier]

Her grove is

[dire lynx]

the grove she created

[edgy nebula]

yeah isma mb

[visual glacier]

Or owns

Either way she has a strong connection to acid

[edgy nebula]

i see, i wonder how she made all the acid then

[dire lynx]

also ismas rooting is completley different to nyleths

her entire body has attached to the wall, nyleth only has a small number of roots at her base

[visual glacier]

Also there’s nothing about Isma controlling her grove or anything like that

Unlike nyleth

[past cypress]

We literally see her dash from one wall to another with no connections to the background

[fervent sigil]

omg bro not another nyleth vs unn vs isma

these typa arguments last 1 hour MINIMUM

[marble oasis]

We'd heard the Citadel once made grudging accord with that creature, sent their servants in reverence, even built a shrine up there somewhere. Maybe it's worth you searching for it?

Is the reason the Weavers stopped eating pilgrims in Shellwood because Nyleth told them to knock it off?

[crystal veldt]

what would a nail/needle made out of pale ore, and sharpened with pale oil look like?? (idk if this is really a lore question im js curious)

[robust wagon]

That's just hornet's needle lol

[crystal veldt]

isnt the needle made out of hivesteel

[robust wagon]

Pale hivesteel

[marble oasis]

needle was probably originally just hivesteel and the oil turned it pale

[heavy gyro]

it would probably look like a pure nail

but needle shaped

[subtle maple]

plinney's pale oil method is just a different way to sharpen your weapon, i think the result would be the same as hk's blacksmith's method, it's just a different execution

[cloud zodiac]

I finished the game, but i didn't play the first game, and i had a question like notice...

Did The Knight from the prev game are part of the void ?
I know berelly he is a vessel, but what is inside the vessel...

[limpid summit]

It’s a bit complicated

I encourage you to play the first game if you can it’ll make more sense

But the knight from the previous game is a corpse with void animating it, throughout the length of the game they achieve a state that allows them to unify and control the void

[lean temple]

Inside is a Shade made of Void. Their eggs were thrown into the Abyss in Hallownest and Void seeped in to make them Vessels

[gentle aspen]

to clarify, the knight doesn’t have a gender

And this question is answered by some of the first game’s endings

[cloud zodiac]

Ultimately, interesting feel like the second game answers the first games happenings.

[gentle aspen]

if you don’t care about spoilers then I’ll answer but if you plan on playing the first I strongly suggest you dk that

[cloud zodiac]

I will play the first game, thanks.

[drowsy canyon]

do you think the vessels actually care about their siblings

The whole reason the godseeker endings exist are because the void is trying to free the hollow knight remotely

And ghost atleast cares about hornet enough to save her and lace

[crystal marsh]

i mean on some level, they do

[gentle aspen]

?

they’re doing godhome for ritual combat

[drowsy canyon]

I see it as ghost attempting to free its sibling without destroying its body

Because in all the endings other than godhome endings, the hollow knight dies or has its body destroyed

In godhome, ghost ascends into the shadelord and the hollow knight is freed from its infection and duty

[gentle aspen]

They would have no way to know nor no way to know that the radiance was the one at the end at the start of godhome

[gentle aspen]

or that killing her there would kill her in thk, or spare the hollow knight from death

the claim doesn’t make sense to assert as reasoning for the knight going through godhome

[drowsy canyon]

yeah that makes sense i guess

[gloomy salmon]

guys i just beat Lost Lace for the second time, and i got the mister mushroom ending for the first time. i feel like i completed my purpose in Silksong, but i feel raw to see the world of Pharloom to still be suffering to the Haunting in my savefile like bro lemme show my fleas and my beautiful depressed Pavo that the world is not at its end 😭

Also can we talk about how the fleas are probably immortal with how many of them there are

Like theres no way these goobers are gonna die ever

[viscid ridge]

Yeah its a shame, thats why i have a second file where pharloom isn't destroyed by void

[viscid ridge]

Not with hornet around

🤣

[gloomy salmon]

Yeah for motivation maybe. But if they'll all grow up like the Large Flea or Vog they'll probably be unstoppable if you give them time

I just hope they'll be better singers than Vog.

[viscid ridge]

I don't really think all roads lead to rome on that one. Every flea is different from one another. Vog and the big flea just happened to win the genetic lottery when it comes to size and strength.

[gloomy salmon]

True..

Well if that's the case, will they all have completely unique outcomes?
Would their build be like Mooshka and the rest or would they stay like what they are? If they didn't become anything else, where would the two-legged fleas get their form?

[viscid ridge]

Its just age, the form we see the other fleas in are essentially their baby forms

Even the big flea is still quite young i think, so he will probably be a absolute unit when he matures

[gloomy salmon]

Would love to see that eventually

I hope there will be a sequel or a mod that will have Pharloom in their cured phase / of it years later

Also who birthed all those fleas?

Weird question i know but its just like the Pale King..

[graceful kraken]

i like to think the 2 legged fleas are fleas that have been touched by a higher being (or, ‘enlightened’) and the beastly fleas seek that enlightenment instictively

because like. enlightenment is the gaining of higher consciousness and tied to a higher being elevating bugs to a bipedal form. or something.

[gloomy salmon]

Thats a crazy theory / headcannon. That would be an obvious explanation why they would stray that far from camp.

[silver thicket]

i find interesting the existance of seals in both pharloom and hallownest. Sure, they aren't the same, but it's interesting to look at this and say that maybe higher beings can create seals? idk i havent dived into the origin of seals but there's something about them so that they appear in both worlds

weavernest has a hidden seal and we know the white palace had their own seal of binding so it brings to question how these are created really, because it seems there are multiple sources

[spark valve]

it's a way of using soul, different soul users seem to have arrived at them independently

weavers used them, shamans used them, pk used them, ancient civ used them

[viscid ridge]

Just normal families i guess, mooshka calls the little fleas we collect cousins, so i guess they have a very large family tree

[lean temple]

There's the "mother flea" who may or not be real as well

[dense sphinx]

I just got a phoenix blaster (silkshot)

[river burrow]

A terraria reference!?!?!

[muted lantern]

Yeah vog straight up calls them young fleas I'm pretty sure

[proper wedge]

is moss druid talking about sister splinter here or am i stupid

[limpid summit]

Sisters is usually used to refer to weavers but I think they’re just being metaphorical

[plain gazelle]

iirc moss druid is basically creating a new heart, so the sisters here is referring to the other old hearts

well creating might be a strong word, the hearts are basically metaphors made literal for the strength of a land and its people, so her ritual is nurturing/heralding the rise of a new post-GMS order in pharloom

[cedar skiff]

“listen to your sisters and grow” might be a double entendre true to its initial meaning but also for hornet because this happens like right after you bind the first weaver spire

unless that’s dialogue for all mossberries i cant fucking remember

interesting nonetheless

[plain gazelle]

that's all mossberry dialogue yeah

but i like the parallel with hornet powering up too

[edgy nebula]

i dont think this is true, mainly because khann and gp arent women

wrong reply my bad

actually no, right reply

im very smart

[plain gazelle]

well yeah but the hearts themselves, like the physical organs, aren't exactly gendered so you can use whatever pronouns you want if you're being poetic like she is

also it's a direct follow up to the line she says when you give her the first 3 mossberries, which is, "Ahhh! Ahhh-ohhhh! The smell is right! Like the others! But very young! Oh, voice of the woods! Oh, dance of the queen! Oh... oh! Beat harder, let us hear it! Oh! Ohhhhhhhh!" - and there she's only explicitly referencing the two female old hearts

[dense sphinx]

DAMN YOU TEAM CHERRY

ADD MORE CRAFT METAL FOR GODS SAKE

[terse warren]

Wrong channel

[bitter heath]

⚠️⚠️Heavy spoilers for both games⚠️⚠️

I have a theory:
The knight isn't hollow anymore.
So in the ending we see the knight save Hornet from the void before we see brief flashes of the Shade Lord, which means the canon ending is the Delicate Flower one. In the ending we see the knight obliterate the Radiance before being teleported away with the Godseeker (who probably gets destroyed too, but that's headcanon territory). Since there isn't a being to contain anymore there isn't a need to have a hollow knight around and since we know that relationships with someone can "unhollow" something, like we saw with the Hollow Knight, we can say that the knight isn't hollow anymore, else he wouldn't have saved Hornet and would have left her to diez this is backed up by the fact that the hollow knight left the knight to essentially die when he saw it climbed the abyss.

I want to know your guys's ideas because I really believe in my theory

[sinful nimbus]

I agree that The Knight is not pure anymore however the idea that THK or TK were ever pure isn't really correct

THK is implied to have always been impure by White Lady's dialogue, and seeing as how all vessels were created in the same way, and there's nothing really special about TK at the beginning of its journey, I'm not sure why it would be any different

[bitter heath]

Those who climbed out of the abyss were hollow, else why would THK have been chosen?

Since both the knights climbed out they were both hollow

• why wouldn't THK have helped TK if he wasn't hollow in the beginning?

[sinful nimbus]

I don't know why you assume there was a method to choosing THK

[sinful nimbus]

It does look back to TK it just doesn't take action which could be for any number of reasons

[bitter heath]

And I might be tweaking but wasn't it stated that thk became unhollow with through bond with the pale king?

[cedar skiff]

i like the idea that succeeding in the climb showcases theyre not actually hollow because it implies endeavor

[sinful nimbus]

No

[cedar skiff]

the pk set up a silly systrm

[glossy agate]

Yeah it kinda makes sense that THK was chosen because he was the first to get out of the abyss

[sinful nimbus]

You're probably thinking of the idea instilled dialogue but WL uses that as evidence for its impurity she doesn't say its the cause

[glossy agate]

Shows that he has no will to break

[sinful nimbus]

Right before that dialogue she says its purity was 'ill judged' implying it was never pure

[glossy agate]

Hmmm i see he might’ve been impure from the beginning like more like he was kinda pure but he didn’t have the potential of being pure forever

[sinful nimbus]

Which isn't really a meaningful distinction is it

The goal was to seal Radiance forever

[glossy agate]

Hence he was ill judged

[bitter heath]

That just makes my theory stronger then

[glossy agate]

Yes

[glossy agate]

Yeah

[sinful nimbus]

If it can't do that its not really pure

[bitter heath]

Yes but delaying the return forever is also a kind of seal

[sinful nimbus]

The what

[edgy nebula]

that isnt what pk wanted though

[bitter heath]

I think that the more "hollow" it is at the start the harder it is to break out of

[edgy nebula]

his goal was to seal radiance and keep hallownest eternal

[bitter heath]

Well yeah but you missed a bit of the convo, I suggest you re read it

[edgy nebula]

could i get the tldr if possible

i am a terrible reader

[glossy agate]

Yeah that’s right the distinction here is at least imo was that even lost kin could’ve been a vessel to seal the radiance but it’s just not what was gonna happen

THK could’ve also been ill judged because the pale king liked him so much that it made him impure

[sinful nimbus]

That would mean its purity was aptly judged it was just lost later

[glossy agate]

So by that sense he should’ve took someone he despised or smth lol

[glossy agate]

Yes

[sinful nimbus]

I'm also not sure why PK loving a vessel incapable of emotion would suddenly make it impure

[sinful nimbus]

Which isn't what White Lady says

[bitter heath]

Basically we understood that the vessels wouldn't be hollow forever

[glossy agate]

Yeah but hallownest’s eternity kinda needs to come after the events of the game

[edgy nebula]

it’s still been massively ravaged by the infection and the king is dead

it cant even be called a kingdom anymore, no one rules it

other than tk but if we assume etv is canon they cant really anymore

[edgy nebula]

after silksong isnt the consensus that no vessels were ever hollow

[glossy agate]

All right so, pale king is a wyrm and wyrms know the future. He should know that the knight will come and that was the only option and so it is hinted through the tablets that hallownest will last eternal to the knight kinda

[bitter heath]

Yes, they wouldn't remain hollow

[glossy agate]

Something along those lines

[bitter heath]

At least forever

[craggy smelt]

that stupid consensus...

[edgy nebula]

mods, kill this guy for bullying the consensus

[craggy smelt]

the consensus is an idiot~!

[glossy agate]

I believe in the theory in which hallownest’s ruin was also its eventual rise.

You see there’s no reason for the pale king to believe that hallownest will last eternal if he knows the answer

Unless he is lying

Or bardoon is lying that wyrms know the future

This whole future knowing thing kinda ruins a lot of ideas it doesn’t work at all

[craggy smelt]

I go with the idea that the 'eternal kingdom' bit was aspirational on his part - he was hoping it would be true eventually
I think his foresight only goes so far, otherwise he probably would have built Hallownest somewhere else

[bitter heath]

If he knows the future then he doesn't know it that much

[glossy agate]

Hmm maybe

It is also said that hallownest is the only kingdom

[craggy smelt]

propaganda or aspirational

[bitter heath]

Which is very false by now

[bitter heath]

Probably he just hyped himself up or rumors did

[glossy agate]

In the retcons video mossbag tried to clear that idea out by saying that it might’ve meant that since hallownest lasts eternal hallownest will be the only kingdom to last ever

And every other kingdom will fall

[craggy smelt]

it was the goal, not a fact at the time

[edgy nebula]

except hallownest fell

[glossy agate]

It kinda didn’t

Pale king’s reign fell not the kingdom

[sinful nimbus]

The region is kinda in shambles

[edgy nebula]

if the king fell it isnt a kingdom anymore

[craggy smelt]

all of its institutions have collapsed utterly and almost everybody is dead

the region is still habitable, but the kingdom is gone

the future of the region will belong to somebody else

[edgy nebula]

also, quick question, did hornet even save pharloom

[glossy agate]

Yeah but it was before he was there and the void civilisation and stuff like that

[craggy smelt]

Eternal Emilitia maybe

[edgy nebula]

she saved it from collapse via gms but isnt void still killing everyone

[craggy smelt]

some of the people didn't die

[glossy agate]

Yeah i suppose you’re right

[sinful nimbus]

No

[craggy smelt]

the Haunting is over and the Void threads have vanished

[edgy nebula]

why?

[sinful nimbus]

With GMS's silk gone the void haunting will stop

[edgy nebula]

ouu ic

[craggy smelt]

you can see the Void threads disintegrate in the ending

[edgy nebula]

you can? i mustve never noticed

[craggy smelt]

mhmm

[bitter heath]

Yes you can, it's not that noticeable because they are only 3 but they do disappear

[craggy smelt]

the Void should settle down now that the angry pale being isn't sitting in it (and TK has arrived to reign it in)

[bitter heath]

TK is canonically the shade lord so

[craggy smelt]

had to flex their little shade lord muscles a bit on those Void tendrils, but yes

[bitter heath]

Also, is the shade lord formed by all the shades? We don't ever see him alongside his siblings

[bitter heath]

You gotta do what you gotta do

[craggy smelt]

TK officially becomes the Lord of Shades when they get the Void Heart, which unites the Void under their will

their huge Void Given Focus form seemed to come from merging with all of the siblings

[glossy agate]

I still don’t believe that consensus tho.

[craggy smelt]

but we see flashes of both the Void Given Focus and all the little siblings in the ending, so it's unclear what's what

[glossy agate]

I mean the moth tribe is gone

The weavers left

[sinful nimbus]

everyone is gone vro

A zombie apocalypse decimated everything

[glossy agate]

But the bugs that were infected are still there

[bitter heath]

I think it's to symbolise how strong he really is

[sinful nimbus]

They're reanimated corpses

[craggy smelt]

Hallownest the kingdom fell
Hallownest the region still has people living in it, but they aren't part of the kingdom
Mantis Tribe, etc.

[sinful nimbus]

And it doesn't have that much people living there

[craggy smelt]

(now is the hour of the Flukes...)

[muted lantern]

Most infected bugs would drop dead

most of the enemies are husks which are dead bugs reanimated

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet probably killed every fluke

[craggy smelt]

nah, they aren't flies

[glossy agate]

Dang that really caught me offguard

[muted lantern]

I like to think hornet has a really strong sense of smell so shes instantly bigoted against anything that smells bad. Including ogrim.

[edgy nebula]

what is the lore relevance of hollow knight maggots, flukes, and muckmaggots all existing

[glossy agate]

Nah an happy future for the kingdom of hallownest is nothing but promised to us folk

[craggy smelt]

the surviving tribes in the area have a chance to rebuild
new people will come when rumours of the kingdom's riches now being unguarded spread further
Dirtmouth will become a boom town maybe
new settlements will develop
the region has a future

[sinful nimbus]

Good worldbuilding

Maggots show why PK is evil

[edgy nebula]

do we think theyre subspecies of the same thing or are there 500 million different things called maggots

[sinful nimbus]

The latter probably

[glossy agate]

Uhhh sewers?

[craggy smelt]

we need leeches as well as flukes

[sinful nimbus]

Well they almost definitely aren't subspecies but they might be related distantly or wtv

[glossy agate]

Bugs that thrive from sewerage stuff idk

[glossy agate]

I mean aren’t muckmaggots kinda leeches

[muted lantern]

Considering mite is used as a derogatory term in silksong and refers to a number of things from arachids to flying insects to an insulting term used against hornet I imagine maggot is similar umbrella term.

[craggy smelt]

I say 'no'

we need other different leeches

in a different place

gloomsacs are kinda like leeches I guess, but still

[glossy agate]

Pharloom bay

[craggy smelt]

maybe

Green Prince refers to the Citadel as a 'leech', so they exist

[muted lantern]

Is it just me or are there gloomsack fossils in marrows background

[edgy nebula]

oh something i noticed

[craggy smelt]

they seem pretty squishy and stretchy, I don't know that they'd fossilize all that well - but any screens?

[edgy nebula]

theres one of those scary ass bone masks in far fields in that one bone building with the mask shard in it’s mouth

[glossy agate]

Hmmm why was lifeblood coined plasmium in silksong

[spark valve]

Xylitol’s master called it that

[muted lantern]

Not at the moment, but you see a lot of things that look like them along the whole of the marrow, id walk around in there and you'll see what im talking about.

[glossy agate]

Smh

[craggy smelt]

lifeblood wouldn't necessarily be a universal term - other lands may call it other things

[muted lantern]

I would go get screens but im grinding nohit bilewater gauntlet

Wait. i have another save, one sec

[glossy agate]

Oh god

Not the plasmium update

[craggy smelt]

Sea of Sorrows is just a placeholder title

[glossy agate]

Type shit

Yeah maybe

[sinful nimbus]

Plasmium is dorky but plasmified has a nice ring to it

Truly a dilemma

[craggy smelt]

dorky being on brand for Zylotol and co.

[foggy fractal]

hey.

[sinful nimbus]

I don't like those dorks

Andy 🗣️

[edgy nebula]

i cant find an image of this it makes me so mad

[foggy fractal]

do NOT desrespect Zylotol and co.

[muted lantern]

its these little three holed fossils througout the marrow

[craggy smelt]

oh yeah, I kinda see what you mean

[muted lantern]

They are everywhere, mainly on the right side i think, closer to deep docks/abyss?

[sinful nimbus]

This fits with the theory of void slowly retreating deeper and deeper 🗣️

[foggy fractal]

hi !

[glossy agate]

Whar

[muted lantern]

primarily all along this tall area leading to hunters march and the prison with grindle

[craggy smelt]

still, gloomsac faces are stretchy, I don't know that they'd fossilize
but maybe the creatures living in the Pharloom Abyss are derived from creatures that lived in the upper caverns?

[sinful nimbus]

That's kinda what the Ancient Basin implies

It also explains why there's a bit of void in AB

[craggy smelt]

Void reserves are shrinking - wells are tapped out
who's siphoning all our Void

[glossy agate]

Nah that’s probably because it came hunting the king or at least trying

[edgy nebula]

oh you actually see multiple of the scary masks in the bone hut

[sinful nimbus]

Now why would it do that

Void doesn't really seem to actively seek conflict

[glossy agate]

I mean tell that to all of those it killed

[craggy smelt]

trying to get back the Void that PK stole

[sinful nimbus]

And gaseous/vine void isn't aggressive

[muted lantern]

Also does anyone know what the shopping lists in the shamans cave is all about?

[craggy smelt]

recipes for spells

some real 'eye of newt' shit

[sinful nimbus]

Void didn't seek them out and assassinate them

They got near it

[foggy fractal]

apple pie :D

[edgy nebula]

oh i saw a theory the other day saying that wisps are flickering flame

[muted lantern]

Does that mean their asses killed pilgrims? i remember pilgrims being on those lists

[craggy smelt]

fuck these snails

[edgy nebula]

it has some evidence backing it up

[glossy agate]

Nah the love key corpse in queen’s garden etc

[edgy nebula]

there are pilgrim parts in bags hung up in wisp thicket, and pilgrims are the ingredients to flickering flame

that too yeah

[sinful nimbus]

"Too long... spent together. We become as one..."
That was caused by prolonged contact with the Collector

[glossy agate]

Hmmm

[edgy nebula]

it kinda makes me wonder as to wisp thicket lore

[craggy smelt]

but is that flickering flame because regular flames flicker, or Flickering Flame the magical spell?

[edgy nebula]

did they find out about it themselves or did a shaman tell them

[craggy smelt]

man, that would be screwed up

but kinda on brand for snails

setting up some cult of bugs to see how a spell works

[glossy agate]

Wait nah that can’t be so related

[muted lantern]

Considering the shamans are very anti gms, i don't doubt they would know a spell to burn silk

[glossy agate]

Void tendrils are kinda like following her

[edgy nebula]

id say it’s semi likely that wisp thicket is pre-gms

[lethal burrow]

Are we having another purity debate?

[muted lantern]

And also considering the haunting it's not too farfetched to assume the shamans were not killing un haunted pilgrims.

[sinful nimbus]

Exiting her corpse

[edgy nebula]

it seems to be a piece of greymoor’s old farmlands kinda stopped in time

[craggy smelt]

no, we've moved on, maybe in #hk-lore

[sinful nimbus]

Same thing happens to Kingsmoulds who also have void in their body

[twilit crest]

The snails are pretty amoral so it makes sense

[glossy agate]

Too far-fetched imo

[sinful nimbus]

What

We see it happen elsewhere

[foggy fractal]

purity of the snails ?

🤔

[glossy agate]

Where

[sinful nimbus]

The alternative is that the void hated this one specific rich bug and tunneled all the way to queen's gardens to assassinate her because ???

[glossy agate]

Void doesn’t do that thon

[sinful nimbus]

Kingsmoulds

[glossy agate]

Kingsmoulds are made of void

[sinful nimbus]

Yes there is void in their body

[glossy agate]

It is very different

[craggy smelt]

the area is probably what all of Greymoor was like before GMS, yeah
but the current thicket is probably still intact precisely because they started burning silk

[glossy agate]

The bug that died there is not made of void

[stray grove]

Hi I don’t know what the topic is but I disagree with whatever Starpengu is saying

[twilit crest]

I thought the idea is that theres a tiny sliver of void in every bug

[sinful nimbus]

Love Key Bug spent prolonged physical contact with a Kingsmould and explicitly merged with them so like

[glossy agate]

Whar

[edgy nebula]

is there any evidence to them burning silk? i simply assumed the wisps were inherently magical

[twilit crest]

Damn ok nvm

[foggy fractal]

we should give a name for love key bug so we don't have to keep on saying love key bug

[craggy smelt]

the wisps look like fiery silk flies

[sinful nimbus]

Also wispfire lantern

[glossy agate]

If so then maybe

[edgy nebula]

arent they the japanese word for fire

[muted lantern]

John voidfucker

[craggy smelt]

I disagree
Love Key Bug forever

actually nvm

Phantasmal's name is better

[twilit crest]

Love bug

[edgy nebula]

oh yeah this is true

[sinful nimbus]

I was saying the Pale King was a great leader but OK

[stray grove]

He wasn’t a “great leader”

[glossy agate]

But where is that lore tho

[sinful nimbus]

Change your name

[twilit crest]

Pale king got sleeper agents everywhere these days

[sinful nimbus]

The dreamnail dialogue

[edgy nebula]

i dont think theyre silk flies? they may just bare resemblance, no?

[sinful nimbus]

@stray grove Change your pfp too

[stray grove]

"Too long... spent together. We become as one..."

[glossy agate]

Oh right yeah

[ornate pier]

Does your opinion on him change every few days i'm confused

[stray grove]

Because calling him a great leader is massively underselling him

[twilit crest]

Overselling more like

[stray grove]

He was the greatest king to ever live

[sinful nimbus]

This account is run by multiple people

I do sunday shifts

[sinful nimbus]

Which entails greatness

[craggy smelt]

they look pretty similar to me
they're a really simple design admittedly
though it also kind've makes sense to me that if you set fire to silk, this magical substance full of lifeforce, you'd get something freaky happening

[foggy fractal]

Star
Pengu
Watch
and Nasuicaa
all runs this account ?

[ornate pier]

I can't beleive starpengu was 7 people in a trenchcoat!

[sinful nimbus]

yes 🗣️

[stray grove]

Yeah no shit I was trying to subvert expectations

[foggy fractal]

maybe even | ?

[muted lantern]

Is el chiefo in there?

[sinful nimbus]

No but we all watch El Chiefo's videos together

[sinful nimbus]

I didn't find it amusing

[stray grove]

When’s SilksongFan’s shift

[stray grove]

I don’t care

[foggy fractal]

fired

[sinful nimbus]

We had a... falling out

[glossy agate]

Good night everyone

[edgy nebula]

they look a little similar, but arent wisps supposed to look like the japanese word for fire? also, if they were silkflies theyd have different needolin dialogue, no?

[craggy smelt]

I don't know, I don't think regular silk flies ever have needolin dialogue

[stray grove]

https://tenor.com/view/magmar-pokemon-pokemon-magmar-fire-fire-blast-gif-4950472142490560262

[edgy nebula]

well in that case why would they have needolin dialogue

maybe im overthinking it

[craggy smelt]

probably all the fire

[edgy nebula]

it would be pretty funny if burning bugs just turned other burning bugs into wisps afer they aged

[twilit crest]

I think this requires a 1:1 conversion of bug:hkss creature

[muted lantern]

Heres my guess, silkflies are from like, condensing and extracting the silk/soul in a bug. And wisps are made from burning the silk/soul in a bug. The wisps are made from the thicket cultists burning the silk out of themselves, the lanterns are probably burning remains.

Similar things but not the same

[edgy nebula]

itd be a bit hard to burn the silk out of themself

considering it’s in their organs

[muted lantern]

Well they kill themselves doing it

[craggy smelt]

you'd have to be pretty careful

[edgy nebula]

well that’s after you kill father of the flame thst they start committing suicide

[twilit crest]

Difficult but not impossible. Given they seem to have resisted gms for at least a little while before hornet arrives, it seems they figured something out

[stray grove]

That also summons multiple which wouldn’t work if the idea is that one soul = one silkfly

[muted lantern]

The lanterns they carry are where the flies come from normally, but when they burn themselves alive they spawn their own.

[muted lantern]

Thats a good point

[edgy nebula]

i feel like wisps are their own thing, not necessarily silkflies

[stray grove]

I would be inclined to agree

[twilit crest]

Fof is kind of like a fuel source to make their wisps burn indefinitely i figured.

[edgy nebula]

i think itd be cooler if they were flickering flame instead

[stray grove]

Flickering Flame is a Shaman spell

[edgy nebula]

it also makes extra sense because the flickering flame’s ingredients need heat to make the stuff

[twilit crest]

You have silk the kindling and fof the fuel. Would also explain why hornet can use a lantern

[edgy nebula]

yeah, but wisps are said to be made of flickering flame, and you see pilgrim parts in bags hung up in wisp thicket

[stray grove]

It’s a spell recipe and that’s not what shaman magic looks like it would also be strange for these random cultists to be using shaman spells

[muted lantern]

Hey do we ever see like a campfire in game? i remember the skarr use jars of flies, but do like the fleas cook moorwing over a flame or somthing else?

[foggy fractal]

hot stones

[muted lantern]

Oh sick, thats useful to know for my writing, makes sense due to wood being not so commmon outside of greymoor and shellwood. And flintstones and such. My follow up question is since skarr use silkflys as campfires do they make warmth?

[foggy fractal]

idk

I think not

just a source of light

[sinful nimbus]

Flickering Flame is probably this

[craggy smelt]

defiling three corpses seems like a lot of effort to go to just to turn the lights on

I can see snails doing it though

[sinful nimbus]

Its for aura

[craggy smelt]

so many atrocities in its pursuit...

when will we learn

[sinful nimbus]

They're haunted so its okay

[foggy fractal]

hey speaking of the shamans

why are there like uhhhh soul rocks

[sinful nimbus]

Is this in the mound

[craggy smelt]

those are found everywhere

petrified pilgrims, maybe

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah that's kinda what I thought

[craggy smelt]

or carvings to honor pilgrims past

[sinful nimbus]

But shamans do put a lot of corpses in their mounds presumably to cultivate a soul rich environment

[foggy fractal]

no
ones i remember are: bilewater near shakra master i thinks, and one in marrow in secret room

another one in mossy area

[midnight zinc]

These are everywhere in Act 1

Iirc they don’t exist within the citadel itself

[edgy nebula]

even the shamans are falling prey to the hype moments and aura curse

tragic

[sinful nimbus]

At least they have some tuffness to back it up

Unlike a certain character

[foggy fractal]

hornet ?

[sinful nimbus]

Fake idgafer except for when she's destroying the kingdom then she really don't gaf

[foggy fractal]

whos actually tuff then

[edgy nebula]

caretaker looks freakish i dont like him lowkey

[sinful nimbus]

Shamans, her siblings

First Sinner

[edgy nebula]

his head is too big for his body

[foggy fractal]

so tuff

[sinful nimbus]

Yea i don't really think his act 3 design is very good

[edgy nebula]

the cloak hides it well but without it he looks insane

coulda kept the beads atleast

[sinful nimbus]

My goat on the other hand...

[edgy nebula]

he has aura but i didnt notice his legs at first

[sinful nimbus]

I'll waste no more words on a slave. Begone. 🥶

[ornate pier]

Bell hermit's only redeeming quality is cool design

[edgy nebula]

the moss grotto shaman has some aura aswell but she looks bald

she doesnt have the super pronounced snail ears like bell hermit does and instead has little antennae and they dont work for her lowkey

[sinful nimbus]

Exactly what a slave would say. Begone!

[edgy nebula]

i just had a fucking BRAIN BLAST idea for sea of sorrow

cone snail snail shaman

[sinful nimbus]

Look Bell Hermit is a cranky old bearded wizard who sees Pharloom for what it is

[foggy fractal]

these guys are also tuff !

[sinful nimbus]

What's not to love

[edgy nebula]

every karak enemy is tuff

[sinful nimbus]

Displeased! If I breathe, if I live, I am displeased. Only the dead are satisfied.
You are a slave, and a nuisance... begone 🗣️

[edgy nebula]

karakas are literally the only silksong enemies who know how to teabag

[cedar skiff]

shakra not in the tuff conversation

i continue to be disappointed

[sinful nimbus]

Shakra's tuffness goes down the drain once you fight her

[edgy nebula]

she has like 3 moves

[cedar skiff]

its a cool spar

[stray grove]

You see he calls Hornet a slave because one of the main themes of Silksong is that everyone is a slave to something

[edgy nebula]

she shouldve been a bigger bossfight and we shouldve fought her instesd of garmond

[sinful nimbus]

He can also sense that she's racist and is trying to piss her off

[edgy nebula]

bell hermit says “You too are bound to end ensnared!” do we think this is weaver queen foreshadowing

[sinful nimbus]

Yes

What a persistent little worm you are. Amuse me then. Why did you cut those poor bugs from their comforting curse? 🗣️

[cedar skiff]

nope im glad it was garmond that went

[sinful nimbus]

No one needs to die vro 💔

[cedar skiff]

is this just a hill you will forever stand on

im amazed

[foggy fractal]

Hornet would disagree (slabflies)

[cedar skiff]

she was probably cheesing seeing that broodmother wish posted up in songclave

[sinful nimbus]

It is true that everyone in Pharloom is a slave to GMS in one way or another

That's kinda the meaning of One True Monarch and all that, she started everything

[cedar skiff]

trobbio remains unchained

[sinful nimbus]

Trobbio is trying to perpetuate a system where even those at the very top are shackled to the monarch, and the system to keep her caged...
He is a slave, and a nuisance. Begone.

[cedar skiff]

he really just thinks its all a fucking game

so unserious the haunyed citadel bugs didnt even bother getting rid of him

literally how is he alive

[foggy fractal]

video game :D

[sinful nimbus]

Who is watching bro

Is there an audience past the foreground

[foggy fractal]

he is schizophrenic maybe ?

[cedar skiff]

not even lace bothered to kill him man

[edgy nebula]

No

empty chairs

[frigid belfry]

he shouts his own name while fighting you i wouldnt exactly describe him as in the best psychological state

[sinful nimbus]

That's just aura

[cedar skiff]

actually i like to think lace found enjoyment in his performances in a time long passed

[frigid belfry]

then he comes back emo and aura farms

[cedar skiff]

wholesome trobbio headcanons to make you smile

[sinful nimbus]

My goat

I fw this hc

[frigid belfry]

we have statements that she wandered around much of the choral chambers so its not unlikely to say she has not at least heard of trobbio

[edgy nebula]

we should rank every tc boss, npc, and enemy on how much aura they have

[sinful nimbus]

Khann and Crawfather on top ofc

[frigid belfry]

theres a premade ss/hk tierlist format

somewhere

[edgy nebula]

moorwing, wate, and shamans are up there too

[sinful nimbus]

The amount of aura they gave WATE for no reason is ridiculous

[cedar skiff]

moorwing…

[sinful nimbus]

Bro is just a reskinned enemy 😭 🙏

[cedar skiff]

moorwing gets lowdiffed by a bunch of fleas and thats enough to remove it from aura conversations

[edgy nebula]

dont knock moorwing’s aura

[sinful nimbus]

Moorwing has a strange amount of buildup though

[cedar skiff]

https://tenor.com/view/mr-white-mr-white-hes-the-devil-breaking-bad-jesse-breaking-bad-describing-gif-1273854400898367643

[edgy nebula]

look at this

[cedar skiff]

okay holy shit

dude the way people were gassing up moorwings difficulty on release was ridiculous

[edgy nebula]

it was hard ngl

i stayed up till like 12 trying to beat it on release day

[sinful nimbus]

I was expecting to first try them tbh the trailer made it look like a throwaway boss

Wasn't that bad though imo

[edgy nebula]

i beat sister splinter 2nd try though

[cedar skiff]

it was one of the first bosses pretty reliant on you forgetting ever playing as the knight and realising this is hornet

i feel

[edgy nebula]

and neither of them are worse than beastfly

[cedar skiff]

so reliant on using her kit up to that point fully

beastfly wasnt even annoying its just the fucking summons

[sinful nimbus]

Realizing I'm playing as Hornet instead of my goat makes me really upset

I think that's part of why people gravitate towards Wanderers

[cedar skiff]

the crests really made me realise why this took 7 years ngl i can imagine how difficult it was to balance everything to work with every crest

[edgy nebula]

why do we think moorwing is able to shoot sawblades out of it’s feet

[cedar skiff]

i mean art aside

[edgy nebula]

do any other bosses really do cartoon shenanigans like that really

[sinful nimbus]

Aura (fr)
https://www.tumblr.com/mebis-silksong-corner/801969241468403712/aura

[cedar skiff]

the fact that the reapers crests sounds so auraful and its really just hornet binding some random fucking farmer

probably not really random considering the hyped up cremation but still

[edgy nebula]

because farmers have aura

[sinful nimbus]

ngl

I think Shaman and Wanderers should be removed from the game and Reaper should turn into the spell crest

[cedar skiff]

it truly feels like wanderers only exists as a way to parallel the knights playstyle it doesnt even make much sense in the world either

shaman reapers and beast all feel more well placed in the world

and architects obv

witch is a whole ass elaborate quest

[sinful nimbus]

I mean crests are really just classes

Pilgrims having the class where you wander around a lot like The Knight makes sense

I mostly just think its boring af from a gameplay perspective and the aggro damage tanking crest should be beast

[cedar skiff]

sea of sorrow better introduce a fire ass crest

i hope its not plasmium centric but thats the likely route

[stray grove]

?

[cedar skiff]

i saw this brought up too but i hope its unaffected by act 3 also i really dont want it to be voided

[stray grove]

That is one of the main themes of the game

[cedar skiff]

the way you worded it just seemed sort of snarky and downplaying of its place in the story overall but yes it is indeed important

[stray grove]

Bell Hermit even foreshadows Weaver Queen where Hornet perpetuates the cycle

[sinful nimbus]

It was yoke, not crown 🗣️ 🔥 💯 🦅 🥶

[cedar skiff]

bell hermit is deadass just get off my lawn the character

he actually just talks like a cranky old guy and it works

[edgy nebula]

yeah, which gives him aura

[sinful nimbus]

I'll waste no more words on a slave

[stray grove]

The Weavers themselves also saw it as a burden and call it a web

There are no winners

[cedar skiff]

its really fire writing

[stray grove]

You’re either a slave running the system or you’re a slave keeping the system running

[cedar skiff]

i remember for the longest time a big topic was figuring out what exactly compelled the weavers to flee when the answer was really damn in your face

[stray grove]

Well

The Cindril Weavers fled before the citadel

The Citadel Weavers just died

[cedar skiff]

yeah maybe flee was the wrong word here i moreso meant give up on citadel operations

[stray grove]

They didn’t give up either

Their plan was for the citadel to continue running indefinitely in their absence

[cedar skiff]

well they themselves did

[stray grove]

Because they were dying

[cedar skiff]

they passed it over

[stray grove]

They had to

[sinful nimbus]

while hoping someone would come along and just kill GMS so that's not necessary

[stray grove]

They were dying and couldn’t produce offspring

[dreamy onyx]

Lwk I just thought all the Weavers fled

[cedar skiff]

they knew it was futile as they had hoped someone would come along and actually get rid of gms

[dreamy onyx]

When did the conductors take over then? Was it just after all the Weavers died?

[stray grove]

Yes but in the meantime they believed the citadel would continue operations indefinitely

[sinful nimbus]

Not futile they just thought it was a burden

Like, people will keep GMS in slumber as a song but that really sucks for them

[stray grove]

Last words of the Weavers.
Sisters, spiders, the burden is passed. These simple bugs shall bear it full. Never to cease. Never to silence.
We shall die, and wait, and pray, that one may come of silken strength enough to weave us free.

Yes this is HK death isn’t freedom

[cedar skiff]

they really were just bums holy shit

[stray grove]

Nah they just died that’s not really their fault

[cedar skiff]

i always misremember that rune harp

[stray grove]

Their silk was waning

Passing the burden was the only way for the citadel to continue operations

[sinful nimbus]

Weaver apologist

[stray grove]

The Weavers obviously did bad shit, the Citadel is a bad place

But it needed to be

[sinful nimbus]

Wow

[cedar skiff]

it needed to be because they were frauds and not able to figure out a way to actually deal with her #fact

[stray grove]

I mean the way the narrative presents it is as a perpetuation of the cycle

[cedar skiff]

anywho i like being reminded on how well the citadel narrative is written its so effective

[stray grove]

The Weavers deposed GMS but weren’t able to rule because their existence was consumed with the task of keeping her captive

And to that end they did bad shit

And once their time was said and done the mantle was passed to the conductors who describe it as yoke not crown

[cedar skiff]

id give the weavers the benefit of the doubt if the mask maker didnt describe them as lavishing in their rule

like they liked doing that shit it wasn’t entirely out of desire to just free themselves from gms

and then it deservedly bit them in the ass

[stray grove]

Mask Maker’s dialogue doesn’t mean that, the Weavers definitely weren’t free

What he’s saying is that it’s just a continuation of the same shit

Which is again kind of the main theme

[cedar skiff]

they set up an entire system of worship around themselves and had a very fragile ego when it comes to their so called divinity

[stray grove]

I mean yeah nobody’s saying the weavers were nice people

But they had to maintain control one way or another

Everything is a downstream effect of GMS

That doesn’t absolve them of their crimes

[cedar skiff]

actually i do wonder how them finding out they arent gms actual daughters even played into this? maybe that fragile sense of ego was what pushed them to center that system of worship around them. but there are timeline issues

[runic frigate]

Wait so simon is in love with clea that is crazy

[stray grove]

I mean that might’ve been common knowledge amongst the weavers

[cedar skiff]

they certainly attempted other ways to free themselves from gms this was not their first idea

[runic frigate]

Bro I can't believe radahn is being mind controlled by his own brother😂 he'll nah

Hell

[stray grove]

This was the only thing this group of Weavers tried

The Cindril Weavers ran away

There’s no indication the Weavers who remained made any attempts to free themselves from GMS other than caging her in the citadel

[cedar skiff]

i am a believer that first sinner was locked up to keep the truth from common bugs and keep the system running yes but the cycle continues specifically because they willingly place themselves in a position where they are worshipped as opposed to doing this cage shit any other way, and im taking mask makers lavishing dialogue literally here and going with the idea that they enjoyed this. also eva sort of feeds into this idea because the way they talk about eva seems like blatant projection

its not really super significant or solid in the story but i think their relationship with rule is interesting

also eva was an attempt at something that could face gms

[stray grove]

They may have enjoyed themselves initially but the Weavers describe running the Citadel as a burden, and the Conductors describe it as yoke not crown

I don’t disagree with the rest of what you said

[cedar skiff]

yeah i agree i was more on about their initial approach and with that idea in mind it makes that development hit harder

[stray grove]

I mean the point is kinda that the oppressed become the oppressors

The Weavers were powerless under GMS so they wanted to exert their newfound power over the common bugs who were “beneath” them and set themselves up as gods accordingly

But at the same time it was a means of control in order to maintain the system that they themselves would come to see as a burden

[cedar skiff]

yesss exactly its so well done

especially with how it goes downhill after they die

because the system was sort of centered around them anyway

they could only keep it going for so long until the reason for going was forgotten and thus it just fell apart

they = the conductors

[stray grove]

Yeah that’s sort of a thing that’s present throughout the game from the bottom all the way to the top, even the lowest of the slaves in the underworks try to assert dominance over the slaves weaker than them

[silk dirge]

same with like the slab

but we dont talk about that here :3

[stray grove]

The jailers are slaves who oppress other slaves yes

Same with the Stilkin too

[twilit crest]

Y not /genq

[silk dirge]

do you want to know 😭

[sinful nimbus]

The slab is good commentary journal entries aside

[cedar skiff]

i am not a big advocate of the act 3 tonal shift but i do enjoy how much about it is about establishing a next generation thats aware of the horrible past and wont perpetuate the cycle, with small things like sherma’s arc coming to an end and such.

[sinful nimbus]

Journal entries and overall framing in mind its kinda euuguuguh

[stray grove]

Well the long and short of it is Slabfly discussions were very common after the game released and for some reason people decide to become evil for no reason

[silk dirge]

there was some crazy shit in there

[twilit crest]

I might be lacking context but that’s probably cause I wasn’t super active here when I first joined

[sinful nimbus]

Why are we speaking in past tense

I had a slabfly convo yesterday

[silk dirge]

someone once pulled out the un definition of genocide to accuse hornet of it 😭

it was crazy

[twilit crest]

What does it mean to be evil regarding slabflys

[barren beacon]

How did GMS know about Hornet's existance?

[sinful nimbus]

"Sensed with silk"

[twilit crest]

Oh lmfao really?

[sinful nimbus]

She just has that magic silk sense

[silk dirge]

i was like ok yeah the slabfly entries are bad but thats going a bit too far i would say

[barren beacon]

Ah, Bullshit. I see

Thanks Starp

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet like straight up advocates for them to stop breeding

And people defend that

Very frequently

[stray grove]

You get the classic genocide apologia, people saying the slabflies deserve it even though they’re slaves with no agency because they’re gross, all sorts of things

[twilit crest]

GMS either feels Hornet or feels Hornet severing the heads of every bug connected by silk

[twilit crest]

“You see, they are the protagonist, which means I must agree with everything they say and do!”

[sinful nimbus]

I mean you are supposed to agree

[stray grove]

That’s sort of the issue with how those entries are written yeah

[sinful nimbus]

The game frames the whole thing very poorly

[twilit crest]

Idk about all that I think Hornet just reacts with intense emotions to things that violate her boundaries

[silk dirge]

by mentioning that i was not intending to start this conversation again 😭

what did i do

[twilit crest]

It’s just characterization if anything

Spelling is hard

[stray grove]

It’s strange and inconsistent characterization

[twilit crest]

Doesn’t have to be good to exist

[stray grove]

Hornet is generally presented as being polite and helpful

[foggy fractal]

dw i am here

[sinful nimbus]

She doesn't do that to the citadel bugs who captured her and she still writes this about the flies if she isn't captured

[stray grove]

She goes 0 to 100 on the Slabflies for no real reason

[twilit crest]

We can’t expect her to not have biases

[ornate pier]

She is sorta harsh on them in some entries

You could say choirbugs are also slaves to the system though

[twilit crest]

Not that I’m condoning her or anything but like. She clearly has favorites and not favorites in her journal entries.

[cedar skiff]

nobody ever mentions hornet hyping up unethical pet breeding practices in the journal though

[stray grove]

She finds enjoyment in killing them and the fact that she might have driven them closer to extinction, says they should stop breeding, and acknowledges that some of them are literal children born into servitude while saying she feels no sympathy for them in the same breath

[sinful nimbus]

I can expect a character who is by all means supposed to be the good guy and likeable to not engage in encouraging genocide though

[twilit crest]

Idk about that

[stray grove]

It’s very out of place

[ornate pier]

Massive mossgrub entry definitely a gag

[stray grove]

Hornet also isn’t really called out for it nor does she face any consequences so it’s difficult to say the game frames it as a negative thing

[silk dirge]

the massive mossgrub entry is excusable to me bc its funny

[sinful nimbus]

Like there's an entry where she acknowledges that Scabflies are child slaves and says she doesn't feel bad about that

You can't make this up

[ornate pier]

Cuz the crustcrag notes are just a lament over how the citadel fucked it over

[sinful nimbus]

Its just bad writing

[ornate pier]

Rule of funny ig

[silk dirge]

like massive mossgrubs are the least fucked up thing the citadel did lol

[twilit crest]

Now that take I can totally agree with. The narrative is unkind to slabflys

[stray grove]

She also delights in the idea that she may have hastened their extinction

And says they should stop breeding

[barren beacon]

Morally Grey

[ornate pier]

You could also see it as like hornet is too entranced by giant fluffy bug to actually comprehend that they are not meant to ever be like this

[silk dirge]

hornet after fucking over a furm by taking its bell off so she can pet it

[twilit crest]

I guess im just not surprised the (somewhat formerly) hotheaded killer character reacts poorly to being stripped and jailed

[stray grove]

There’s also one entry where she wonders why the haunted slaves in a disgusting prison don’t regularly bathe which paints her as kind of a dumbass

[stray grove]

I mean she doesn’t actually have to get slabbed is the thing

[cedar skiff]

isnt there an entry that mentions keeping an enemy as an “exotic pet”

what is her issue

[sinful nimbus]

She's not a hotheaded killer

[twilit crest]

All the same

[ornate pier]

Yep

[stray geyser]

are the dream bosses in act three higher beings

[sinful nimbus]

She was killing vessels out of necessity and she says she feels pity for them

[silk dirge]

yeah but that enemy is literally a fucking flower

[stray grove]

And it’s not like Hornet says the same shit about any of the other bugs in the citadel who try to kill her

[barren beacon]

No

[ornate pier]

Aren't the vaultborns getting their dynamic entry back soon

[sinful nimbus]

No but they're stronger than the average joe

[ornate pier]

It's in a beta or something

Slabflies couldve had a similar situation

Where like if you dont get kidnapped the entries are a lot milder

[cedar skiff]

its just hilarious i kinda like entries that showcase hornet being of royal descent and a nepo baby without being completely ooc (cough slabfly cough)

[sinful nimbus]

I mean she's just describing Hallownest culture

[twilit crest]

I’m not sure what the stance here is. I’m just saying it’s strange but not surprising to see her speak of the slabflys that way.

[sinful nimbus]

It surprised me a lot ngl

[ornate pier]

Its pretty balanced to me cuz of the driflin entry

[twilit crest]

Hornet isn’t a paragon of anything but her own sovereignty

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet was really likeable and understanding in Hollow Knight

[silk dirge]

yeah hornet never says shed keep a phacia as a pet

[ornate pier]

Where she's like this would make a good pet but the conditions it needs to live must be respected

[silk dirge]

just that in hallownest they would do that

[twilit crest]

So for her to react poorly to bugs who strip and jail her is a drastic but still largely in character decision imo

[silk dirge]

i would not take a fucking driftlin as a pet

if you wait long enough youd have a fayforn in your house

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet comes from an all nude kingdom

She probably doesn't care about being stripped lol

[twilit crest]

She herself is not nude

[sinful nimbus]

Yes but nudity doesn't really matter in HK

Why would she care

[ornate pier]

There's no nudity taboo in this universe

[twilit crest]

This is also false in the way her animations change when sitting on the bench naked. A lot of people have made note of the fact that she clearly looks very pissed off

[cedar skiff]

the journal entries are really inconsistent in hindsight “i liked to chase this bug as a child” “i want this entire species of enslaved by birth bugs gone because they annoyed me”

[silk dirge]

i mean maybe cloaks were a signifier of high status in hallownest

[ornate pier]

Hornet takes off her cloak casually while talking to seamstress she definitely does not care

[twilit crest]

Hornet very clearly does not like being stripped lol

[ornate pier]

Pretty baseless

[sinful nimbus]

Yes she doesn't like being captured

[twilit crest]

I’m trying to find a gif of her snapping that one fly’s neck

[ornate pier]

Because they captured her?

[sinful nimbus]

Why is she pissed off when she's surrounded by the slaves she's racist to

[cedar skiff]

but what if shes cold :((

[ornate pier]

Her being stripped is irrelevant

[twilit crest]

Are u sure?

[ornate pier]

I mean her regular cloak wont really help

[ornate pier]

Almost sure

[twilit crest]

I see more evidence to suggest Hornet doesn’t like being stripped than not

[sinful nimbus]

There is no reason for her to care about being naked other than possibly being cold

[twilit crest]

She’s not exactly frolicking through the slab naked

[sinful nimbus]

Also a tactical disadvantage but like no duh

[ornate pier]

If there is a nudity taboo present why would she take her cloak oiff without shame in front of someone who is basically a stranger

(Seamstress)

[stray grove]

Bugs in this universe don’t wear clothes

[foggy fractal]

[twilit crest]

What made you think anything regarding nudity taboo?

[stray grove]

Team Cherry called Hallownest an all nude kingdom

[ornate pier]

Some do but they don't care about being naked either

[twilit crest]

I’m talking about her personal boundaries type shi

[silk dirge]

i love the quests where you just fucking

strip clothes

off pilgrims

[sinful nimbus]

Anyway I don't think this changes a whole lot

[twilit crest]

oh ok

[ornate pier]

I'd still say nothing concrete in game to support that the stripping is much of an issue to hornet

[stray grove]

I mean yeah people sometimes wear articles of clothing but they don’t care about being naked and a lot of people just are

[sinful nimbus]

The entire ordeal still paints Hornet as very stupid and unempathetic which in turn makes her a bad unlikeable person

Which is bad writing in the context of Silksong where she is not supposed to be that

[ornate pier]

They lowkey should've just

[twilit crest]

The change in animation, her bench pose, her brutal killing of the slabfly that holds her clothes, it’s pretty concrete compared to the counter argument that she just doesn’t care at all

[ornate pier]

Not included the crazy lines about how they shouldn't breed

[twilit crest]

I’m seeing more points in column a than b is all

[ornate pier]

All of these can be explained because she is captured in jail

[twilit crest]

Did I not say stripped and jailed

[open quarry]

It's good writing having her being flawed

[cedar skiff]

well thankfully its an easily overlooked line

[sinful nimbus]

No its not

They sour the entire Slab plot as a whole

[ornate pier]

Fuck off

[sinful nimbus]

Its also more than one line and there are other important things Hornet is guilty of that also paint her in a bad light

[cedar skiff]

it is for a casual player who probably wont even get the full entry

[twilit crest]

<@&283547423706447872>

[cedar skiff]

but i dont disagree with it being bad writing

[twilit crest]

Yeah I never said it’s good

[sinful nimbus]

Well if you don't pay attention ofc its not a big deal

[plain gazelle]

are some people really arguing about whether our female protagonist being stripped naked and jailed is supposed to be read as a personal violation lmao

[twilit crest]

Apparently lmfao

[sinful nimbus]

Yes

[ornate pier]

Yeah but why should me make the assumption being stripped is a problem when her simply being jailed explains everything on its own and the fact she lives in a world with no nudity taboo and has been seen taking her cloak off in front of strangers

[cedar skiff]

theres other moments that paint hornet as imperfect that work better

[sinful nimbus]

This is an E10+ game in a universe established to not have a nudity taboo

Like ???

[cedar skiff]

oh my god this actually did spiral ijto another slabfly discussion

its genius

[plain gazelle]

...

you gotta log off star

[sinful nimbus]

What

[ornate pier]

??

[foggy fractal]

no stay logged on

[twilit crest]

Because she was stripped. There is no slab breakout scenario where she retains her clothing (unless you skip the sequence altogether). You may separate the two acts for the sake of argument but the game as it is does not

[open quarry]

I think they are interesting conversations ! As long a no one says evil shit 🙂

[sinful nimbus]

This is a universe where being stripped doesn't matter so it has to be because she's jailed

[ornate pier]

It's just a strange assumption to make when there's nothing concrete in game stating it to be important

And when you consider the taboos of this world

[twilit crest]

Red dream

[ornate pier]

It's because she was jailed

[sinful nimbus]

And we have TC's explicit word on nudity not being a big deal and in fact the norm

[twilit crest]

She made that cloak ofc she cares about wearing it

[ornate pier]

Then it's not about being stripped

It's about having her personal belongings taken away from her

[twilit crest]

It’s about the violation of her boundaries most likely

[cedar skiff]

holy discussion

[dense ridge]

Tfw semantics

[twilit crest]

Fr

[cedar skiff]

im amazed at this channels ability to just make anything a point of discourse

does hornet mind being naked is a serious question

[ornate pier]

Every stupid hyperspecific part of lore must be debated upon

[foggy fractal]

true !

[timber pond]

Weavers in general seem to not like being naked. They always make clothes

[cedar skiff]

mind you we have a dlc coming up soon

[cedar skiff]

this is an interesting observation though!

[limpid summit]

Widow doesn’t wear anything really but FS weaves herself a dress

[open quarry]

Yes
Just like her biases toward other beings 🙂
It's good to debate the effects the writing do on us

[limpid summit]

She was probably a big shot

[ornate pier]

Oh i lowkey forgot aboyut her intro

[stray grove]

She’s Atla

[ornate pier]

Of first sinner

[twilit crest]

I think there’s also something to be said about Hornet probably not enjoying being disarmed on top of it all. She seems to care a lot about defending herself

[dense ridge]

Very pertinent information for some people on here

[twilit crest]

Which like. No duh

[limpid summit]

You have to ease into that

[ornate pier]

I mean widow is insane now

And she does wear clothes in a cutscene

[limpid summit]

Could have been a GMS decree

[twilit crest]

Is this shade at me I’m confuzzled

[limpid summit]

All the Weavers were free to wear as little or as many clothes as they want away from the embrace of their mother

[ornate pier]

But since hornet has no qualms with casually taking it off in front of strangers, it's most likely more about like having them as personal belongings rather than just not liking being naked

[twilit crest]

It could be either or both. All we know is that she was jailed, stripped, and retaliated with extreme prejudice.

[dense ridge]

I wasn't thinking of anyone in particular

[timber pond]

She does mind because in her culture she was taught to weave and wear clothes. And deepnest isn't explicitly apart of hallownest. Mabye Weavers looked down on hallownest for being an "all nude kingdom ". Checkmate theorists😂 .

[twilit crest]

Oh bet

[ornate pier]

Anyways uhhh

[cedar skiff]

well the more “important” bugs all wear something that looks like clothes

[ornate pier]

This is all ultimately irrelevant

[twilit crest]

Honestly not the worst theory. It holds water when I think about it

[ornate pier]

Because the journal entries don't change. If you don't get captured

[twilit crest]

Oh come on man

[cedar skiff]

white lady and pale king hav their coats or whatever

[ornate pier]

Just observing them is enough for hornet to go like Kill Them All

For some reason

[twilit crest]

That’s just an example of the writing being not the best imo

[ornate pier]

Which is...the point most people have been trying to make...

[timber pond]

Like im pretty sure most deepnest enmies wear clothes actually.

[twilit crest]

???

[open quarry]

I don't get why it's bad writing

[ornate pier]

That the writing is weird and uncharacteristic

[twilit crest]

But I said several times that I agree the writing is less than great

But I also said it’s in character for her

[ornate pier]

I don't think i caught that then

[cedar skiff]

does trobbio do drag

[timber pond]

So if you dont wear clothes, are you a peasant? I think its a species thing in this world really.

[cedar skiff]

im asking the REAL questions

[ornate pier]

What would doing drag entail in this universe

[twilit crest]

I’m willing to believe that the slab breakout sequence is probably a “canon” playthrough segment. But that’s just conjecture tbh

[limpid summit]

Lowkey though it isn’t it’s fairly out of left field

She says “we do not choose our mothers” in HK

[cedar skiff]

i dont know but trobbio would figure it out

[limpid summit]

She’s not about generalization or predestination

[foggy fractal]

<@&283547423706447872>

[cedar skiff]

yeah true weavers have more blatant clothes that arent just wings or similar things implied to be clothes and that is neat

[twilit crest]

Yes but I feel like she’s said before that it’s not hard to piss her off. How pissed must she have been during the slab breakout

[limpid summit]

Probably fairly angry but there are dynamic journal entries in SS like the Vaultborn

[gentle aspen]

She got her shit stolen

[twilit crest]

Her prejudicial retaliation at the slabflys indicates a pretty harsh emotional state

[foggy fractal]

hello joker

[limpid summit]

However she carries these prejudices regardless of capture or not

[twilit crest]

Exactly

[timber pond]

Well it probably depends on what type of bug you are tbh. Like I cannot see Quirrel wearing clothes. Fucking bean shaped shirt🤔 ? Lol

[ornate pier]

Either dynamic slabfly entries or just. Remove the crazy parts that border on eugenics

[limpid summit]

To say capture is a likely sequence isn’t ridiculous but as there are canon playthroughs without it she can be called out

[cedar skiff]

agree but some fanartists have fun interpretations that i enjoy

[limpid summit]

Literally saying “Creatures born into servitude. Their plight elicits some sympathy from me”

[twilit crest]

For sure. I have no proof that the slab breakout is more or less canon than playthroughs that skip.

[open quarry]

Why wouldn't Hornet be dumb sometimes ?

[limpid summit]

Fair fair

[sinful nimbus]

You'd expect her to be empathetic while captured

[limpid summit]

Yes

She’s like an old woman

[foggy fractal]

grandma Hornet

[sinful nimbus]

So tuff

[cedar skiff]

dude what is this

im crying

[limpid summit]

My finest work

[cedar skiff]

dude im truly amazed. you got a good chuckle out of me i

the phonk clarity remix really seals it together

[silk dirge]

absolute cinema

[twilit crest]

I guess a more ethical version of hornet would’ve led a mass impel down-esque jailbreak but idk if that would’ve fit the wider tone of the story

[ornate pier]

😭 😭 😭

[limpid summit]

I do it all for you guys I love this channel

[ornate pier]

This is incredible

[sinful nimbus]

The only thing Hornet has to do is like show some basic empathy in the journal entries

[cedar skiff]

it actually radiates hatred not even a wojak could embody

[sinful nimbus]

Which would fit the tone of y'know the entire Citadel theming

[twilit crest]

She can’t like em all that would probably come off as unrealistic

[foggy fractal]

if i had a genie lamp and got 3 wishes one of the wishes would be to fix ts !

[ornate pier]

The citadel theming is like almost everyone is a slave to the system right

[twilit crest]

Idk I’m just trying to get in the heads of the writing team

[sinful nimbus]

What

[twilit crest]

What

[sinful nimbus]

She doesn't like have to enjoy their company she just doesn't have to be blatantly evil

[ornate pier]

What

[twilit crest]

Wat

[timber pond]

My take: Spider eat fly. Fly no citizen.

[open quarry]

Why not ? Really

[sinful nimbus]

She can just go like "Wow that's really messed up of the Citadel dawg" not "Yeah the Citadel did a messed up thing but I don't even feel bad"

[limpid summit]

We can’t hope to assume their intentions but I think benefit of the doubt suggests they wanted to do a grimdark version of the fly spider relationship without thinking about the consequences of demonizing an enslaved race

[twilit crest]

Idk dawg we got what we got. I’m just trying to parse out the story as is

[foggy fractal]

Hornet would say "dawg" ???

[sinful nimbus]

Its bad framing

[limpid summit]

Like I just don’t think they thought too hard about it

[mint stratus]

I mean they did steal her shit and capture her

[sinful nimbus]

We shouldn't have got what we got

[twilit crest]

And yet

[dense ridge]

I think Hornet is just a little racist guys

[open quarry]

No it showing her flawed why is that bad writing???

[sinful nimbus]

We did and its bad writing and I'm right to criticize that

[twilit crest]

Deadass literally yes

[foggy fractal]

🤔 I wonder what could've led to this conclusion

[sinful nimbus]

She isn't framed as incorrect and like it plays cool heroic music when she snaps their necks 💀

[timber pond]

Weaver moment.

[cedar skiff]

if team cherry was woker they would have used this joke as an opportunity to showcase how hornet is different from her weaver sisters in that she doesnt hate the flies. thus further showing how she is distancing herself from her destiny as weaver queen and hopes to carve out a better pharloom than what her evil ass ancestors had

[sinful nimbus]

It also makes her an unlikeable douche which isn't really what the story needs to work

[cedar skiff]

ari gibson put me in coach

[ornate pier]

Red maiden agartha phonk

[plain gazelle]

because she got caught, stripped and jailed???

[open quarry]

Hmm good point 👉

[sinful nimbus]

By slaves who had no other joice yeah

[twilit crest]

What kind of framing would you like to see to make her look incorrect for her beliefs

[plain gazelle]

70% of the bosses in the game have no choice but to fight hornet are you mad that there's heroic boss music for all of them?

[dense ridge]

With the haunting you could apply that to everyone in Pharloom. The flys are haunted too

[timber pond]

The problem is that that whole thing is about Pale being dominace and not weavers

[limpid summit]

The Lands Serene

[sinful nimbus]

Its not a story where its thematically coherent for Hornet to be racist so frankly there is no winning

[cedar skiff]

a joke about slabfly discussions turned into a slabfly discussion

[dense ridge]

Well the racism isn't a central part of the story it's just in minor journal entries

[sinful nimbus]

No because they typically aren't portrayed as disgusting monsters and Hornet doesn't write horrific racist vitriol against them in her journal 😐

[plain gazelle]

also the whole slabfly = slaves thing is already a stretch from a single line of dialogue by a crazy prisoner who just says that the flies are also penitents

[mint stratus]

She’s perfectly cordial to the newly hatched future broodmother

[sinful nimbus]

No Hornet says verbatim that they are born into servitude

[limpid summit]

He says their entire race is enslaved for a transgression that they committed aeons ago

[sinful nimbus]

While saying in the next sentence that she doesn't feel bad about that

[limpid summit]

Likely under the Weavers and it’s been a while since then

[timber pond]

Did them walking around and being goofy while wearing her clothes also constitue an action of being a slave?😂

[twilit crest]

The jailers are stinky, cruel, and dangerous. Things Hornet has seen to really dislike. It’s not hard to headcanon a prejudice between weavers and flys besides.
On top of all that, they jail her, strip her naked of her possessions, and play around in her clothes as if to mock her.

I’m not saying she’s justified in her prejudices but like, we know what kind of character we’re dealing with here. None of these points paints a good picture for her

[dense ridge]

She probably just crashed out in the journal while up late in the bellhome one night

[limpid summit]

Can’t a dude make the best of a bad situation

[frigid belfry]

theres no way i come back and its the slabfly shit all over again

[sinful nimbus]

They are stinky cruel and dangerous because of the conditions they were subjected to because they are slaves yes