sk-lore

[frigid belfry]

think of it like being awake but drugged and chained down

[craggy smelt]

even a sleeping god can accomplish a lot

[edgy nebula]

the bed was simply too good to get up from

[frigid belfry]

a giant fluffy silk cocoon is probably comfy

[half zenith]

Okay what if the ability to dive underwater in the dlc lets you dive into the bottom of not just the ocean, but any pool of water that’s deep enough

Like. Including Bilewater. What type of rewards or bragging rights would Team Cherry hide in Bilewater for whoever is insane enough to go swimming in the depths of the poison swamp

[stray fog]

How would we get the submarine to bilewater though

[tawdry flare]

Lucid... lucid.... lunaci,,, lucid blocks??

[half zenith]

Not a submarine. I was thinking just plain swimming. Using a DLC skill

[trail wagon]

GUYS I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS

[viscid ridge]

I dont think the boat will take us under water, some islands just extend under the water, like the laboratory island

[silk dirge]

they literally say we will go beneath water

Voyage across and beneath the salt-stricken seas in this thrilling expansion, free for all players.

[silk dirge]

the submarine is under that

[viscid ridge]

As said, we will still go beneath the water, just not via the submarine, but via some tunnel systems i think

[silk dirge]

its the light thing in the bottom left corner

[viscid ridge]

Oh i see, never noticed that

But i wonder then what the pool of water that i highlighted is? That seems strange

[silk dirge]

i mean also it says voyaging beneath which does not sound like explore underwater caves

[silk dirge]

i mean its probably hard to see what it actually is going to look like from acmi

the lighting and shape is probably weird and its going to look completely different in game

anyways one thing i find interesting is that we are actually going underwater here

worth noting coral gorge was not underwater

it just had a lot of water pouring down everywhere

[viscid ridge]

Yeah i doubt also that there is gonna be physical sky above the lab. I think the lighting is created by some bug like the charged lumaflies, or maybe the cavern is so big that it can have massive storms

[silk dirge]

yeah

i mean its also a large body of water

regardless of where it is any large body of water can have its own weather

also silksong is famously known for following real life physics

[trail wagon]

description?

[trail wagon]

humble submarine sprite

[trail wagon]

oh right

you've said that already

[half zenith]

Like. What if post canon Ghost tried and failed to fix Broken Vessel

But used lifeblood

And meanwhile Hornet’s just like “I told you so”

[viscid ridge]

I know i already said i didn't notice mb

[trail wagon]

ohhh sorry

[craggy smelt]

Plasmified Vessel

[half zenith]

Interesting username you’ve got there lol

Anyway. I think Plasmified is honestly a stupid boss name adjective that fails to adequately describe the horror of lifeblood undead. It works in Zango’s case because it’s a mad sciency term for a mad scientist’s unfortunate assistant. But for Broken Vessel I’d use a more haunting descriptor

How about… Overgrown Vessel

Or Reanimated Vessel

[solar tapir]

Broken Vessel just a shell filled with infection. It cannot be reanimated. Unless u somehow find its shade and drag it back.

[half zenith]

Well yeah, the infection is making it move. Another term for something that moves might be “animated”.

It is not alive, yet it moves anyway

[solar tapir]

so you just want fix shell itself

with lifeblood

[half zenith]

Basically. The shell is too broken to hold the shade anyway, so it has to be fixed first -but someone didn’t check for side effects before applying mysterious glowy science liquid

[orchid pawn]

I don't think even fireb0rn would do this

[whole holly]

i hope we get plasmified verdania, and all Tribes of Old Hearts plasmified, coral gorge will be blue again

[twin dragon]

It seems like were getting barnacle bay smt smt

[mossy bay]

is lace technically hornet's aunt?

[twin dragon]

Unrelated to the old hearts

[twin dragon]

Theyre not biologically related

[mossy bay]

how

hornet's grandmother is lace's mother no?

[old jetty]

I dont think theres a relationship between gms and hornet

The only relation is that hornets mom (herrah) was elevated by gms to become a weaver and so hornet is half weaver half wyrm

[mossy bay]

isn't she the one to give intelligence and silk to hera?

[old jetty]

Yeah but does that make herrah gms’ daughter?

[mossy bay]

technically?

[old jetty]

My teacher gives me intelligence
Is my teacher my dad/mom?

[old jetty]

We see quirrel at the bottom of the ocean either dead or in a submarine thats what im saying

[mossy bay]

your teacher taught you not give you intelligence

[twin dragon]

Gms is not related to the weavers

[old jetty]

My god gave me intelligence and humanity intelligence
Does that make my god my father?

[twin dragon]

Thats like saying if theoretically god exists and created us were all related to him

[twin dragon]

Yeah

This

[old jetty]

Gms elevated the normal bugs and made them into weavers

[mossy bay]

why is she called mother then?

[old jetty]

Grand mother SILK not grand mother weaver

I suspect like gms is the place of origin of silk and she’s metaphorically the grandmother of silk

[twin dragon]

She didnt birth em though

And shes not the same species

And while the foster argument can be made she was more of a deity to the weavers iirc

[mossy bay]

why is the mother of silk tho it would make more sense if it's meant in like she's the mother of the silk users?

[stray fog]

I just realized that mr mushroom has the sight

How did it take me so long to notice that

[graceful grail]

Anyone think Pharloom Bay is actually 95% finished and TC is just sitting on it for now??

[half zenith]

Does anyone else think that Pharloom Bay and/or some DLC stuff in general might be an epilogue act or something? Because the whole “the world is dying and lace is stuck in the void” thing makes this DLC… sorta fly in the face of the main plot

Unless it’s tied to an alternate ending where Lifeblood is A Problem and Hornet has to look for its source to fix it

[muted lantern]

it's probably accessible in act 2

[half zenith]

…Thaaaaaat makes a lot more sense actually

[muted lantern]

considering the last games dlc were all doable earlier in the story.

[half zenith]

Fair point

I’m already seeing flea festival jokes about the hypothetical fishing minigame

[muted lantern]

it's likely act 3 accessible as well, so people can jump in on their current save

I mean yeah already in act 3 hornet spends her time collecting mementos and beating flea game highscores so it's not a big jump

it's kinda an unavoidable video game thing with side content

[half zenith]

Lol

TV tropes has you covered there. Take Your Time

[half zenith]

I like to justify the flea festival thing in-character as Hornet having a lapse in self control and just losing it for a bit because she hasn’t let herself truly rest in a while and bottling up her own emotional needs has consequences

She probably should be saving the world… but she’s upset that she accidentally broke it, so saving the world will have to wait until she’s picked herself back up

[muted lantern]

Hornet likely justifies it to herself as training her reflexes to ensure a victory, like how she justifies killing karmelita after already having 3 hearts. Hornet unlike us only gets one shot at this, so she wants to be ready.

[half zenith]

Oh yeah, this isn’t like HK, the respawns probably aren’t canon… I like to imagine that the defeats are canon though, and that running out of HP equates not death, but the point at which she is too severely injured to fight (at which point death is inevitable anyway). Difference between normal and steel soul is that the cosmic dice of fate are far less forgiving in steel soul

[muted lantern]

tbf its hotly contested if respawning is even canon in hollow knight, but people who are more versed in that games text than me can argue that better.

[half zenith]

That’s true. My take on Hollow Knight has always been “whichever makes more sense for your fan fic/whichever you prefer”. I personally HC the respawns to be canon because it’s funny to imagine the knight suffering just as much as we do at Soul Master, and it strengthens their characterization in some ways IMO (their reckless thrill seeking and thirst for battle makes sense if they can’t die, and their sheer determination to see their quest through means they very irritatingly won’t stay dead)

[wintry compass]

omg the climate change DLC is real

[twin dragon]

Hornet kinda says "yo ur old as shit wanna fight me in your prime?" And karm says "bet"

[muted lantern]

tbf the respawns after dream fights are likely canon as ghost doesnt die, so that aspect still remains for all the hardest fights like nkg, soul tyrant, white defender, and everything in godhome.

[twin dragon]

Theres nothing telling us otherwise so yeah

Aside from like the radiance which actually kills you

[half zenith]

Now Hornet is obviously much more mortal, but I still think the defeats can be canon. What matters is that she‘s too injured to fight anymore and will die if she doesn’t make it to safety and that’s not interesting to play. It’s great for fan fic!

[twin dragon]

Whats the cocoon then

[half zenith]

Uhhhhhhhhh

[twin dragon]

Once we break it black liquid pours out aswell

Hunter mentions that dead bugs leave a "stain on the world"

Iirc thats the void

[heavy gyro]

Its possibly regrets

[half zenith]

Are you suggesting Hornet is void in this day and age /silly

[twin dragon]

No

But im suggesting she actually dies

[half zenith]

Fair point. One question though -let’s say she does regenerate if too badly wounded. If she leaves to return to safety offscreen once she’s done regenerating, why are only her rosaries lost in the chaos and why doesn’t she take them with her

She obviously didn’t just teleport to the bench

[twin dragon]

She seems to leave her body with it aswell

But not the cloak???

[stray fog]

The black body in the cocoon looks like the weaver queen

Idk what to make of it, but its worth mentioning

[twin dragon]

I thought of that aswell thats some crazy foreshadowing

[half zenith]

And it obviously wasn’t just a dream because the cocoon and rosary loss is real

[twin dragon]

And weaver queen seemingly having symbolism for rebirth

[stray fog]

I get why the weaver queen was in a cocoon like that, but why does hornet do that after death

Is it a protective measure? Like how gms makes a cocoon in the abyss

[stray fog]

Do we know why that happens to the knight either?

[hushed crater]

It's gameplay and to || show he is also a shade like his siblings ||

Makes it easier to understand

[heavy gyro]

Respawn cant be canon because it doesnt make sense for there to be 2 shades

[stray fog]

Im not saying that respawning is canon

Its about the money loss

[heavy gyro]

I guess the knight keeps its geo in its shade

[graceful grail]

Everyone thinks the scrapped ending is GMS and hornet merging, but to me it looks more like hornet embracing her wyrm side imo

[stray fog]

Why is it different from the weaver queen ending then

[graceful grail]

What do you mean, i dont understand what you’re saying

[stray fog]

The weaver queen ending is hornet accepting her urge to become a ruler

[wintry compass]

I think I agree with what ccmaci says here, hornet leaving a cocoon were she to die would be canon, but dying a 15th time to savage beastfly probably isn't

[graceful grail]

I was talking about the scrapped ending unless it has a name

[stray fog]

What Im trying to say is that hornet embracing her wyrm side is already an ending in game, so what differentiates it from the cut ending?

[graceful grail]

The Weaver’s wanted hornet to embrace her Weaver side to take over GMS, I didn’t think it was necessarily her father‘s side she was taking after there

[bleak ridge]

Hornet taking over and binding gms was what the weavers intended for her, so yeah "weaver" queen is definitely more weaver then wyrm

Meanwhile the ending where hornet confronts the void head on is definitely more pale kingish

[cinder prism]

Does anything happen if you become weaver queen while corrupted by lifeblood?

[robust wagon]

Nope

[primal mesa]

Maybe when she "dies " she's losing control of her silk, in the same way that happened in weaver queen.

Or her body goes into a self defense mode that creates the cocoon

There's also definitely something embryonic about it

[frosty gate]

Damn, Glorkish and Pogseal popped in my Twitter tl

[frosty gate]

Is this about Hornet making a cocoon when she dies?

[whole holly]

do you guys think we will see lifeblood higher being in Sea of Sorrows or Gods of Thunder and Gods of Rain?

[frosty gate]

I don't think we will see then but it's very likely there'll be a mention

I'm unsure if there is even a Lifeblood HB to be honest

[untold hound]

So what if Herald made the fungal wastes?

[stray fog]

not the gods of thunder and rain

They're dead in hk

[whole holly]

i meant see them, not greet them with open hands

[whole holly]

that would be interesting trajectory, honestly

[frosty gate]

Not every substance needs to have an active HB, it could work like the void

Specially considering the fact that LB lacks "Direction"

Lifeblood doesn't actually do anything

Not on purpose

It doesn't seek to do anything

[whole holly]

Why does it need to, to be made by higher being ?

[whole holly]

Lifeblood is unlikely to be primordial force due to its connection to essence dream realm and similarity to infection with effects

[frosty gate]

Never said it was a primordial force, I said it could work like Void in the sense that "It has no master"

Hence why the Infection can just take over it

[frosty gate]

Idk, I feel like most substances we've seen have a HB behind them using it in a way that you say "Oh yeah this is abnormal"

Both Dream and Nightmare essence had a HB behind them

[whole holly]

1. Void is primordial force that’s why I assumed

[frosty gate]

Silk had GMS

[whole holly]

Dream Essence doesn’t have Creator, one HB just has powers relating to it

It would match pattern for phenomenon

[frosty gate]

I'm also not saying that they're the creators, I'm just saying that HBs are using it and giving it a directive

Void and Lifeblood function similarly in the sense that they don't really do anything unless prompted

They act almost on instinct

[heavy gyro]

When has infection taken over lifeblood

[frosty gate]

Well, to be brutally honest I said this without actually remembering if the Light things that took over BV were Lifeblood Infected thingies or not

I just remember they look exactly the same

[heavy gyro]

They look similar but they still have differences

And the lightseed is said to have swollen greatly in size

So it wouldn't make sense for it to be a lifeseed

[frosty gate]

I'm trying to check but the wiki seems dead?

Yeah I will correct myself, it doesn't take hold of it

But holy shit it looks exactly the same

[heavy gyro]

Yeah i had to use fandom ( )

[frosty gate]

It doesn't change my view that Lifeblood doesn't seem to have a Master though

[frosty gate]

Void only consumes soul while Lifeblood only regenerates for some reason, but they just do it

There's no purpose behind it, it's just something they innately do

[heavy gyro]

There was some eva dialogue about lifeblood but wiki is down

She talks about how it is cursed and tries to make everything look like it or something

[narrow horizon]

pasmim

[frosty gate]

Coincidentally, Lifeblood seems to "repel" void

[teal sinew]

Im 70% sure this dlc will tackle the origin of lifeblood and im very excited for that

[teal sinew]

but didnt the doctor find lifeblood in pharloom comparatively recently? And lifeblood has been around hallownest long enough

[frosty gate]

Yes

[teal sinew]

so if pharloom is the source of lifeblood how did it come to hallownest and why did it start manifesting way later than hallownest

[frosty gate]

Pharloom isn't the source

[narrow horizon]

he didn't find it

his master did in the water

he brought it elsewhere under her instruction

[teal sinew]

in the water of sea of sorrows we assume?

[narrow horizon]

[narrow horizon]

yea prolly

[teal sinew]

isnt that technically in pharloom

[narrow horizon]

the dialogue in the top left of this image

[frosty gate]

Yes, but then again, that doesn't mean it's the source

[teal sinew]

hm probably

[narrow horizon]

it could be but we don't know yet

https://tenor.com/view/sherma-silksong-absolute-cinema-gif-774649724514166125

[teal sinew]

Then maybe lifeblood doesnt come from a singular source, but rather phases into existence once certain conditions are met

probably has to do with something sad and death etc bc. Well the vessels birthplace was a depressing place and obviously there is the sea of SORROWS

[narrow horizon]

plot twist plasmium and lifeblood aren't actually the same thing and they're completely unrelated they just happen to look and act kinda similarly

[teal sinew]

physical manifestation of sorrow being lifeblood would be an interesting concept

[teal sinew]

hornet is stupid and couldn’t tell the difference theory

[narrow horizon]

🗣🔥

[heavy gyro]

Essence - dreams
Void - regrets
Lifeblood - sorrow

[teal sinew]

Yessss

Maybe there is a being that lives in sorrow like radiance lives in dreams

Then we get to fight depression, literally

[heavy gyro]

Indie game depression trope

[honest sun]

scoliosis

[frosty gate]

I will murder someone

[frosty gate]

When we fighting against the Mommy Issues higher being

[stuck widget]

Taking the whole “quirky indie game about depression” thing to a whole new level

Jokes aside, sounds like a really neat idea

[narrow horizon]

basically gms

💔

[viscid ridge]

The ocean next to pharloom is where he found it, its probably right under the lab

[viscid ridge]

And radiance

[stray fog]

Lmao

I still think its unlikely

[smoky raven]

Lost lace first try

[teal sinew]

Normal indie games: This perilous journey has been a metaphor of my mental struggles. But i have conquered it and will live on to see better days

Silksong: FUCKING DIE DEPRESSION (cogfly and buzzsaw noises)

[teal sinew]

That would be lace

[viscid ridge]

Please please team cherry, give us a lifeblood higher being and my soul is yours

[whole holly]

hey johnathan, no lifeblood higher being for you

we will probably get plasmified lace first, knowing team cherry

[ember river]

You are 100% undeniably right

[ember river]

Silksong: Should I become a god and turn these people into my servants or should I try to kill a god for good?

[stuck widget]

Silksong be the cute and quirky indie version of God of War.

Imagine if there was a mod that just added unnecessary amounts of gore and blood everywhere

[wintry blade]

why does the knight infect pharloom with void in act 3

[rough carbon]

why not

https://tenor.com/view/jjk-gojo-gojo-noticing-noticing-alan-bowe-gif-12403550093832862340

[wintry blade]

the knight isn't really a bad guy

[rough carbon]

hey you dont know that

did he tell you that

https://tenor.com/view/tung-tung-tung-tung-sahur-tung-tung-sahur-tung-tung-tung-sahur-brainrot-baseball-gif-13999381090646842001

[steel slate]

I need Alchemist’s Crest to be real

I can’t imagine this being really anything but a new crest

Resembles spots you bind for crests and even has the candles

[somber smelt]

I don’t think his morality follows human/bug morality really at all

I also don’t think the knight controls the entire void. He’s just a powerful entity within it

[limpid summit]

Eh I guess no way to know for sure

[somber smelt]

Plasmafied beastfly unironically feels very possible. Or skull tyrant/ant boss enemy

[limpid summit]

But the void imprinted on a fetus not an existing locked in mind like Collector

I would say there’s growth potential there

I don’t think TK has a completely alien mode of thought

It can’t be sensed though

[somber smelt]

Definitely. Godhome ending indicates the knight is quite powerful potentially

[steel slate]

Plasmified Broodmother

[somber smelt]

And the flower quest seems to indicate capacity for empathy

[limpid summit]

Looks like one

I wonder if we’ll bind a lifeblood core like Joni or Zylotol

[somber smelt]

It’s also team cherry’s world and the knight has so little character locked in due to lack of talking that you can give it many different vibes and it still fits

[steel slate]

I think it might be Zylotol’s master we bind

[somber smelt]

What if they give us a proper ranged crest with some horrible downside to compensate

[steel slate]

Cuz I can’t imagine Zylotol’s corpse getting moved to the opposite side of the map

[graceful grail]

Yeah, that would mean it would be in act 3 as well

[steel slate]

I feel like this dlc will be available in act 2

[graceful grail]

Me to

Do you think the Bay will be locked behind some sort of door, or the way to it will just be an open cave now or smthin

[steel slate]

It could be behind the weavenest

[graceful grail]

I dont think access from a weavenest is likely personally

[steel slate]

They could also just do a breakable wall though

[graceful grail]

Yeah, thats what they did for all the HK updates if you think about it

[steel slate]

Doesn’t Bilewater have some weird dead-ends or something?

[graceful grail]

It basically has one tool, one mask shard, and a act 3 required item.

More is needed

Maybe it will be on the same level as the opposite of the watcher at the edge

[steel slate]

I’m curious what we’ll find

Cuz I think that barnacle town from early trailers will still be here

In which case there might actually be a lot of upgrades to get

[stray fog]

Yes

There are 2 dead ends where pharloom bay used to be before it got cut

[steel slate]

Makes sense

[bleak ridge]

We basically know the dlc area is barnacle bay, it's water themed and it's to the east side of the map

Could the area be connected to Bilewater or ducts?

And would the bile affect barnacle bay

[tawdry flare]

we know it is

you can see Pharloom Bay plants in the Bilewater Weavenest

[spark valve]

yeah

[tawdry flare]

and there is a Big Door near that in Bilewater iirc

[graceful grail]

Yo, it is possible that Hollow nest is to the east of pherloom! because in the opening cut scene they go underneath a water area. You can tell by the light reflections.

They could’ve just had to go around to avoid bilewater and hunters March, and to get to the bridge.

[tawdry flare]

…are you suggesting that they went around ALL of Pharloom?

[spark valve]

the light reflection thing isn't even true

but yes it's possible hallownest is in any direction from pharloom

[spark valve]

where they enter is dictated by where that entrance to the kingdom is since (as far as gms knows) that's the only one

there is another entrance but that's in the cindril weavenest so she wouldn't know it existed

[stray fog]

Yes

That door used to be connected to the bay

As seen in earlier maps

[halcyon merlin]

sea of sorrow tomorrow

[gray ivy]

So what exactly is a bell eater? A friend of mine likes to think it’s like a male bell beast

[halcyon merlin]

it doesn't make sense if it was

it looks nothing like bell beast

and judging from his name and how bell beasts kills it, it looks like a complete different thing

[unique canopy]

Not saying I agree that it is, but a lot of bugs have extreme sexual dimorphism, and hostile behavior between mates

[halcyon merlin]

really?

hmm

i know a little about hostile behaviour though

[lean temple]

I feel this stretches the bounds of sexual dimorphism a bit

[halcyon merlin]

like spiders (i think) and how mantis eat their partner

[lean temple]

And usually the female is bigger, no?

[edgy nebula]

isnt bell eater likely female? it sprays exploding eggs(?) from it's tail

[halcyon merlin]

there's probably something in the hunter journal or whatever that confirms its female

[halcyon merlin]

Description of Beastling Call "Summon the Beastlings and return to their mother."

[edgy nebula]

im talking about bell eater, not bell beast

[halcyon merlin]

fuck

how am i blind

[unique canopy]

No confirmation on sex, but the journal entry is one of the few that confirms what kind of bug it is, that being a centipede

You're probably right on it also being female, possibly competing for nesting space

[halcyon merlin]

oh

Long dormant centipede, awoken and enraged by Pharloom's crumbling collapse

Wake now...
Long slumber...
Feed... Eat...
World trembles...
Great noise... louder...

now i see why it only appears in act 3

[stray fog]

My headcanon is that the citadel used bell eaters to dig the bellway tunnels (by eating bells)

[halcyon merlin]

fair enough

[lean temple]

Could be any endoparasite

[stray fog]

TwisTriker had the original idea

[halcyon merlin]

no idea of who's that

[mossy cradle]

gng what if the corpse under a sheet in the SOS trailer is zylotols master wtv she is And she's a crest, and binding him will give a plasmium crest or even a buff to the architect
this prob doesn't count as lore but this still feels lore relevant like the other crests
I'll put this in discussion too incase

[stray fog]

I believe this

[mossy cradle]

what does zylotol look like

[lean temple]

His master was female btw

[stray fog]

Zylotol mentions that his master found plasmium in pharloom bay, so it makes sense that we'll see her in this dlc

[stray fog]

People theorize that hes an axolotl

[lean temple]

They what?

How

[stray fog]

Although the worms in wormways develop similar fins when plasmified

!wiki plasmidas

[oak meadow]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Plasmidas

Hollow Knight Wiki

Plasmidas

Plasmidases are enemies in Hollow Knight: Silksong. They are the Plasmified forms of Groms.

Health

80

Drops

None

Damage Modifiers

1.25    1    1    0.9    0.9

Journal kills

6

[stray fog]

Their head is like zylotol

[lean temple]

Huh

[stray fog]

I don't believe that personally

[stray fog]

What im saying is that those are not axolotl fins, just a side effect of plasmium

[lean temple]

I wonder how long they've been messing around with Lifeblood then

[steel slate]

I feel relatively certain that this will give us a plasmium-related crest, regardless of who specifically is underneath it

[halcyon merlin]

what plasmium crest is going to do

[steel slate]

My prediction is Joni’s Blessing + Hiveblood/Overdose

Essentially a “tank” crest

[halcyon merlin]

hear me out

the dlc will add a new ending

[lean temple]

Curse ending alternative with lifeblood

[halcyon merlin]

indeed

[somber smelt]

It feels like it would logically be a crest that puts you in permanent plasmium overdose. Not sure what else it might do though

[halcyon merlin]

make it so you can infect enemies to use them as pets

[mossy cradle]

blue cogflies will be the best use trust

[somber smelt]

I feel like plasmium crest also being the pet crest feels like taking many of the remaining crest design spaces and merging them into one

If the Grimm troupe returns I would expect that to have the pet crest

Makes wispfire lantern actually good somehow is its entire effect

[silk dirge]

blue quill when

sorrowful trobbio

[mossy cradle]

tormented and sorrowful are too similar ngl

plasmified trobbio will be real

[halcyon merlin]

costs no silk
is 200% faster

[wise sand]

Definitely not

[steel slate]

I think Bell Eater’s just a species

[whole holly]

Plasmified Trobbio representing new beginnings

[steel slate]

Kinda like how we have anteaters

[halcyon merlin]

considering its a centipede

[somber smelt]

Plasmified moss mother is definitely happening isn’t it

[halcyon merlin]

can moss mother be voided

[wise sand]

Yall just be saying stuff fr

[steel slate]

A plasmified hard version of a boss would be really interesting to see

[wise sand]

Yes

[somber smelt]

Yes

[halcyon merlin]

ok so sure!

plasmafied moss mither is coming

[somber smelt]

There is actually a bonus voided moss mother that spawns in act 3 specifically. But also the double moss mother can be voided

[halcyon merlin]

plasmified lost lace

[steel slate]

Give us Plasmified Broodmother, she never got a refight like Moss Mother, Skull Tyrant, or Savage Beastfly

[halcyon merlin]

huh what really?

[wise sand]

I wonder how they'd get it to work tho, everything thats plasmified has really high regen

Would make them near impossible to defeat

[somber smelt]

Maybe they will add a mechanic that somehow cuts off regen to the boss?

[steel slate]

Just give them lower regen

[halcyon merlin]

they will have a specific part of the fight for you to deal damage and once they go past a certain point they can't heal above that anymore

[steel slate]

Or make their regen hinge on certain conditions, like if they hit you they regen or something

[somber smelt]

Poison cuts regen to make sure cogflys remain supreme

[halcyon merlin]

i mean would it make sense for poison to cut it

[wise sand]

Perhaps

[halcyon merlin]

what kind of regen is that, that can't remove poison ong

[whole holly]

when you cheese boss, every bossfight is easy, regen is must atp

[somber smelt]

I’m joking, but yeah poison doing that thematically makes sense

[halcyon merlin]

thematically sure...

[somber smelt]

I think it would be op though

We don’t need to give architect extra power

[whole holly]

Flintslate and Wisp Lantern should have effect too

[halcyon merlin]

it can be something like the boss keeps going for lifeblood on the arena to regen

then you need to destroy it before they go to them

[somber smelt]

Cauterize the wound, checks out

Can’t regrow it at that point

[whole holly]

i pretty much relied on architect for most of boss fights, before falling in love with fully evolved hunter crest

[somber smelt]

I was a wanderer abuser, but I want to do a full witch playthrough at some point cause bind nuke is so cool

[whole holly]

i am abusing wanderer crest on my steel soul run

but i was abusing reaper crest on my first run

[halcyon merlin]

wanderer crest on steel soul?

is that safe

[spark valve]

is it safe to use a very strong crest on steel soul

yes

[whole holly]

for me yes, reliable pogo, reliable parry

[somber smelt]

It’s what I did lol. Get heals so much faster and yeah parrying

[whole holly]

very fast

[halcyon merlin]

i guess i just play too aggressively with it

i see i see

[somber smelt]

It makes you want to go ham like beast does

[halcyon merlin]

guess i will use it when i do steel soul then

[whole holly]

Reaper is only good if i want to heal, but healing is not that good thing when you always get damaged

plus reaper is slow

worst may either be reaper or shaman crest, def shaman crest

[spark valve]

worst is reaper it's not close

[whole holly]

i disagree

there is only two good enough silk skills, shaman removes red tool slots, no yellow tool crest so dependent on vesticrest, two blue tools aren't enough, bind is worst and doesn't make up for built in grubberfly elegy effect

[spark valve]

there are only some silk skills that are stupid broken so that a 50% increase in power makes them even more broken yellow tools are irrelevant it has enough blue tools

but whatever this isn't a lore topic

[graceful grail]

Water light refractions

[whole holly]

unlike reaper crest that has reliable bind, additional silk, needle range, lorewise it is also most interesting given history of greymoor reapers

i guess you could say shaman compares

but Reaper

is cooler

[spark valve]

water a notoriously levitating substance

[graceful grail]

Where

[spark valve]

if there was water above and holes in the ceiling where would the water be

[graceful grail]

The sand on the btm is melted glass, duh

[spark valve]

ok you're baiting

[graceful grail]

But seriously, it is a water reflection from above

[graceful grail]

Watch it urself

[spark valve]

I have

if tc was trying to communicate that there was water above there are pretty well established ways they have of doing that

they don't

[hexed kindle]

There is no bad crest

Only good and bad users

[spark valve]

didn't say bad said worst

[sinful nimbus]

Reaper is badly designed

Thus a bad crest

[spark valve]

when people say a crest is good or bad they're generally talking about efficacy not about design

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah I just want to insult crest design though

[plain gazelle]

i used reaper most in my first playthrough, it's not the best for minmax but 95% of players will never care about minmaxing their build

[graceful grail]

Has anyone else noticed that the watcher at the edge being on sea level would be perfectly where the DLC could be.

Red line is sea level

[spark valve]

it's not a continuous body of water and never was

[silk dirge]

coral gorge wasnt underwater tho

it had a lot of water sure

but it was mainly like giant waterfalls from what it looks like

[spark valve]

it had water flowing through it being a river

[graceful grail]

Unless the whole dream sequence is underwater in a way, but not water at the same time. Since there are fish floating everywhere.

[silk dirge]

yeah but its not like a body of water you could swim through

[spark valve]

yeah

karak was a river not a sea

[graceful grail]

Was it a saltwater river. Judging from the coral

[spark valve]

don't think anything indicates one way or the other

[graceful grail]

Or coral can exist without salt water in this universe

[steel slate]

I forget these games have swimmable water

[narrow horizon]

unless you play rando

[narrow horizon]

there's also glass windows that show ocean/large bodies of water

[graceful grail]

I think it’d be interesting if we get a life blood update, than a Gtroop update, then God home update

[narrow horizon]

what about city of steel

[steel slate]

I feel like the undersea area is just gonna be an area literally beneath the sea rather than an underwater one

[narrow horizon]

would that be the hidden dreams equivalent

[steel slate]

Wouldn’t City of Steel be our Grimm Troupe equivalent?

[narrow horizon]

i thought they meant like actual grimm troupe but true lol

[graceful grail]

Question, is the void sea composed of water with void in it?

[narrow horizon]

[graceful grail]

Kuz hornet can swim in it without the actual void touching her

[steel slate]

I think you can swim in the void with the everbloom or whatever that was called

Not sure if it has any actual water though

Btw isn’t there gonna be this “Village of Lions” thing in the dlc at some point?

[silk dirge]

void is its own liquid tho

it acts similar to water but it has its own properties

[graceful grail]

Yeah, but the void tendrils have to start chasing her once the everbloom dies out, she isn’t just instantly killed

[silk dirge]

<@&283547423706447872> kill

[halcyon merlin]

radiance infection reference??

[steel slate]

😭

[edgy nebula]

the mods are orange cause theyre infected and theyre spreading the radiance's gospel like moss prophet

[halcyon merlin]

🔥

[vocal thistle]

defeat my gauntlet

[silk dirge]

eat my voltvessels

[surreal perch]

https://tenor.com/view/woody-woody-toy-story-sora-kh3-kh-gif-27223516

[vocal thistle]

10,000 years in the trap bench pit

[frigid belfry]

no groal

[steel slate]

The new ost pieces in the dlc are gonna be so fire

I imagine at least 1 of the new bosses will receive a unique theme

[velvet bolt]

Hey yall. What material do you think the quills in HK/SS are made of

It can’t be a feather, right?

[limpid summit]

It actually is

Weird but some bugs have them

Fabled feather down, layered within the cloak. Leap again while airborne.

The moths have feather like stuff

Butterflies might too - so trobbio’s quills might come from him

[velvet bolt]

Right, the Fayforn has it, but it’s by no means a common creature

[sinful nimbus]

Driftlins are likely her babies actually

They have the same downy wings, horns, and bodies and their NDD mentions a mother

[velvet bolt]

Oh, yeah. Shakra says the quill is plucked from “Golpeni” that her tribe hunts

Feathery bugs is weird to think about

[sinful nimbus]

Nuu would be heartbroken to know our journal isn't complete because we haven't hunted the golpeni 😔

[halcyon merlin]

trobbio is a butterfly?

[limpid summit]

Golpenis

[halcyon merlin]

idk how i didn't notice

[limpid summit]

Yes

I think he was called that in the uh

Early info

[halcyon merlin]

oh

[limpid summit]

Maybe I’m tripping

Ok bet yes he’s a butterfly

[velvet bolt]

The plaque next to his stage calls him a butterfly

[stray grove]

This is incredibly inappropriate and childish

[sinful nimbus]

...wtf

[trail wagon]

Feathers?

[ornate pier]

I would assume the feathers in the hk universe an analogous to like

The actual fluff on moths and such

Which are like modified scales

[limpid summit]

Im so sorry you saw that..

[blissful harbor]

HK one looks like it came from a mask fly
maybe flea fluff for pharloom

[velvet bolt]

I could see that being the case 🤔

[blissful harbor]

red and purple are trobbio fluff

[velvet bolt]

So they call it down” or “feathers” but they’re moreso just aesthetically similar to feathers, rather than being like, the structures found on avians

[ocean crown]

Hi chat

[bright python]

hi

[ocean crown]

“Feathers” of various bugs

Also W THE TEASER WE SEE THE TOP OF LIFEBLOOD SPIRE

YEAAA

although the things on the side of the lab don’t look like lifeblood things

[lone folio]

They look somewhat like lifeblood leaves

Most similar to one's we in the hollow knight refreshed art

[ocean crown]

It’s odd that lifeblood was found in the sea despite the main imagery of lifeblood being a butterfly 🦋

[ocean crown]

Perhaps changed by the alchemist’s master I forgot the name of

[lone folio]

She never got a name

Atleast I don't think they did

Well they have a name we just don't get to hear it

[ocean crown]

In this photo we do see smth that has similar bumps (atleast to me) to both the alchemist and xango

This thing reminds me of the things we stab to get a crest so idk

[ocean crown]

Looking at it again idk

[blissful harbor]

100% this is a crest

candles and everything

[ocean crown]

I think I can either see the butt or legs of a bug on the back

[ocean crown]

Oh true this is def a chapel

[ocean crown]

It looks like the bottom of a butterfly or smth or legs together

[sonic solar]

the little knobs are mean its probably someone similar to the lifeblood researcher

they have similar hair

[mossy cradle]

call me crazy but the blue wings in the lab image look very similar to a butterfly that after a quick Google search, lives near areas of open water, because no other bug lives near water

I'll assume these bugs are the source of the lifeblood in some way turned fictional by the devs

we might even get a lace wing higher being boss maybe????👀 👀 👀 👀

[blissful harbor]

those wings aren’t new
we see them on the bugs in wormways, just seems to indicate lifeblood presence idk if it’s supposed to indicate any specific bug
more so goes with the butterfly themeing if anything

[mossy cradle]

what's the name of the infected bugs that crawl underground n jump at you

[lone folio]

Plasmid

[mossy cradle]

call me crazy x2 but those are ears. Or just wings of a fictional baby version of another bug like the lifecycle of the muckroaches. Maybe even the fayforn, they're only a bit below mount fay and both kinda furry (but I highly doubt so don't bother correcting.)

[blissful harbor]

wut

[ocean crown]

Yea I’m saying at the bottom it looks like a teeny pair of legs or like the bottom of a moth or bee or smth

[ocean crown]

Also ball pfp

[silk dirge]

leaked image of sea of sorrow lets analyze it

whats the lore implications of this

(context: this is a game william made before he joined tc called "return to booty grotto" and its peak)

[ocean crown]

Crest of the alchemist

Makn attack is a throw

Of a potion

[mossy cradle]

That blue stuff in the background is DEFINITELY lifeblood. Nothing else in the universe is blue.
That ring in the corner is RED on a BLUE background
Ring can be extended to Ringmaster through the power of imagination
Ringmasters work in circuses, made to entertain people
Who else entertains and is red? Trobbio The Beloved
This means that Trobbio must be the source of lifeblood
And the fish in the lifeblood on the screen, MUST mean that Trobbio is a fish! Specifically a flying fish, which can only glide, like Trobbio!!
The school of fish in the back implies there is education in Silksong, which means there's children, not only that but they're BLUE, which means they're lifeblood!
This means that Trobbio the Flying Fish went through labour and gave birth to Joni, the only child to ever exist (trust), and Joni made lifeblood through the help of the abyss creature
This means that Joni is a heretic, asking for help from a prisoner of the Abyss to live forever, which the Pale King deemed a sin, and so was banished to die, and we will see Joni's ghost move into Pharloom Bay in Silksong!

CONCLUSION
pregnant trobbio
trobbio is joni's father
joni left pharloom to explore the world (implied) and found hallownest
visited hallownest's abyss and made lifeblood
killed or smth by the pale king idk how she died for being a heretic
returned to pharloom Bay bc she was bored

I didn't write enough

[midnight zinc]

The lore implications are there’s a Team Cherry multiverse, but I guess we already knew that because of Mr Mushroom

[midnight zinc]

“Pregnant Trobbio” we need to bring back stoning

[mossy cradle]

but we need pregnant trobbio wdym

actually

trobbio the flying fish doesn't deserve to hold a full baby for however long a flying fish is pregnant for

[past cypress]

I open the chat first two words I see are pregnant trobbio

[lone folio]

Holy shit I gained -6 brain cells

[mossy cradle]

trobbio can probably birth your braincells back I think
trust
im sorry

[wise sand]

Bro what

[ocean crown]

Dude I can’t wait for plasmified beastfly

[wise sand]

Not a butterfly nor are they typical found near the sea

[mossy cradle]

they're not?

[wise sand]

Also there's plenty of bugs that can be found near the sea

[ocean crown]

Ok but those specific blu things are near the lab so maybe have been drained and or experimented on

[mossy cradle]

i just said water not sea

[wise sand]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysopidae

[mossy cradle]

also considering the size of pharloom I doubt there would be a full sea next to it

[wise sand]

"Salt striken waters" + theres barnacles

[ocean crown]

Well if pharloom bay is a trading doc as it is theorized then perhaps it’s a sea to another kindom

[wise sand]

Also they're not tied to water either

I see them in my backyard quite often

[ocean crown]

We have two exits to pharloom on the left but none to the right

Sorry brained turned off LMAo

Holy not being able to type batman

[mossy cradle]

tbh the only thing i knew about lace wings was that their wings looked similar to the ones in the sos trailer

[ocean crown]

And I wonder if that lab is near the land of storms but that’s just an odd connection w the only evidence being lightning so

Also that submarine was jn multiple map teasers in the bottom left of the bottom areas including the lifeblood spire

[mossy cradle]

submarine?

the thing behind hornet in that 1 image? i js assumed it was like the thing Eva is in where does it confirm it's a submarine?

[ocean crown]

I mean I assume it is bc we see a body w a big light on the map in mutliple places in the early maps

Also jn pharloom bay

I am simply ASSUMING it’s that thing in the teaser

[ocean crown]

I’m not saying it couldn’t be thag but it does resemble either a diving bell or submarine

[steel slate]

Wait was that not Eva behind Hornet?

Or some related thing

[ocean crown]

Could be but why wpuld eva be in an area with waves

[mossy cradle]

ive js seen so many ppl saying that it is a submarine to a point ive denied it bc i think its like the Eva thing

[ocean crown]

It CAN be an eva and phantom like thing but I doubt it.

[mossy cradle]

I mean it could be just Eva herself, we might get an expansion on Eva and we could maybe, choose to not Bind Eva?
Perhaps Eva has some Sorrows we could Sea...

[ocean crown]

Oh and obviously this is all way early stuff so not too much actual evidence besides this

[steel slate]

So much talk about a submarine 😭

A submarine in Silksong feels so wrong

[ocean crown]

Thing is that would require the player not consume eva and saying it’s an expansion I doubt it

[steel slate]

Oh that is not Eva

[mossy cradle]

coral expansion trust

[ocean crown]

Also in the description it says across and beneath

So we need a way to get beneath henceforth; a submarine

[mossy cradle]

ok im js inclined to believe its a submarine now

[steel slate]

I figured that would just mean an area beneath the sea like how City of Tears is under Blue Lake

[mossy cradle]

perhaps submarine would be like the tram stations maybe

[ocean crown]

Likely saying it sits in the bottom of each

[edgy nebula]

always bet on coral gorge

[mossy cradle]

coral organ sleeper will return

[steel slate]

Never bet on Coral 😔

Hard to tell how expansive the areas will be

[ocean crown]

[ocean crown]

Hopefully bigger than the hive

[steel slate]

Well we know there’s multiple areas so that feels like a given

[ocean crown]

I’ll be happy with whatever

Idc

[steel slate]

Especially since the barnacle town from early trailers is probably still here

[ocean crown]

Give me more lifeblood lore I need to feed my not addiction

I can stop whenever

[ocean crown]

Watch it release December 31st 2026

[ornate pier]

Somewhat

[steel slate]

Didn’t they imply somewhere there’s multiple dlcs releasing in 2026?

[muted lantern]

what the hell is penance by swallowing

and casting?

[craggy smelt]

casting probably means they throw them in a deep pit

and swallowing, well...

[stray grove]

That penitent is implied to be Widow

Casting is a strange way to describe her punishment but she does have a lot of metal bound to her

[silk dirge]

fed to slabflies maybe?

[edgy nebula]

maybe to broodmother

[graceful grail]

Guilty of an unnamed sin sounds like it could have started as a filler for TC, but they descided it sounded cool.

[graceful grail]

Ohhh, could have been feed to Hornets bellbeast!! Thats why she had a silk heart!!!

[stray grove]

It’s Widow

They left the details of her “sin” ambiguous

Presumably because it pertains to GMS

[stray grove]

This doesn’t really make sense

Also it’s baseless

[foggy fractal]

hello King

[stray grove]

Hello Andy

[edgy nebula]

well, there’s a bellway in the slab and we know slabflies arent allowed to leave

[stray grove]

There are bellways everywhere

[muted lantern]

Widows sin is directly stated on her thing and the unnamed sin guy is literally called twelfth of the first. Not first of the first.

[stray grove]

Widow isn’t First Sinner

You’re thinking of a different character

[muted lantern]

Fuck wait brain mixed up names

[foggy fractal]

epic fail

[muted lantern]

Tragedy

Many such instances

Though I don't think the unnamed sin is widow either, she was bound not cast

Casting has no connotations really related to what was done to her

Idk why I always mix up widow and first sinner, I'm probably racist to weavers or smthn

What's more likely is first sinner is the apostate and widow is the heretic

[stray grove]

X of the First presumably refers to the Weavers who are described as the First Children, so it was either Widow or some other unnamed Weaver (which would be odd writing given this Weaver is never seen or referenced literally anywhere else)
Widow and First Sinner/Atla are the only two Weavers we know of who went against their sisters’ wishes and were punished as a result
“Absolution not granted” means that this penitent isn’t dead unlike every other, Widow is obviously alive
“Casting” is a strange way to describe it but all of the punishments are left rather vague and Widow does have a lot of metal bound to her body

Obviously it’s not conclusive but given the information we have Widow fits better than some random unnamed Weaver

[muted lantern]

The of the first thing doesn't mean weavers tho, it's used to describe every sinner in the slab

[stray grove]

Show me literally any other sinner with the “x of the first” description

Spoiler: you can’t because there are only two

One is First Sinner, the First of the First and the other is the Twelfth of the First who was guilty of an unnamed sin

[muted lantern]

What I mean is the whole numbering scheme is based on the order in which people were punished not their species.

[stray grove]

These are notably the only two known prisoners who weren’t absolved

[stray grove]

That explanation doesn’t make a lot of sense

And it’s not species but generation

The Weavers are the First Children

Everything should be formed under that understanding

[muted lantern]

So who are the fourth children

[plain gazelle]

i think removing one's mask could be construed as "casting" in the sense of casting a role in a play. i agree that the "of the first" almost certainly implies a weaver, and widow is the only other one we know to be punished somehow

[stray grove]

We don’t know!

[muted lantern]

and theres still no explanation to how widows condition is anything related to "casting"

[plain gazelle]

i just posted one 💀

[stray grove]

Are you actually reading the messages being sent

“Casting” is a strange way to describe it but all the punishments are left rather vague and Widow does have a lot of metal bound to her body

[muted lantern]

thats just not a good explanation, shes explicitly had pins inserted into her spine, thats not casting.

[spark valve]

have you not seen the like metal plate on her chest

[stray grove]

It’s almost like we don’t know what casting means

[spark valve]

the pins are only part of what was done

[plain gazelle]

the pins insertion were only half of her punishment

[muted lantern]

Now thats a good point actually

[edgy nebula]

yeah what even is that metal part

[spark valve]

she was also presumably cast out from her station or whatever

[muted lantern]

Still not sure what that has to do with casting, which is pouring hot metal onto something, are we to believe that hot metal was poured into her spinnerets and then was shaped into the needles in her back?

[stray grove]

We can come up with any number of explanations but ultimately we don’t know what casting specifically refers to

We don’t know what most of the slab punishments refer to

[foggy fractal]

dw dlc will reveal all answers

[plain gazelle]

again, i think it's more likely to refer to her having her mask removed

[stray grove]

That doesn’t make the explanation that its Widow any less likely

[muted lantern]

Im still struggling to buy the generations thing, generations of what, citadels denizens?

[stray grove]

We don’t know and it doesn’t really matter

[muted lantern]

it can't be of gms's children

[stray grove]

The Weavers are the First Children

[muted lantern]

I mean i think it does matter, its hard to believe its referring to generations going just off the word first, with no other generations being named that correspond to anything.

[stray grove]

The other children aren’t very important

[plain gazelle]

the citadel just likes its numerology, it could be the "of the fourth" corresponds to something completely different, but "of the first" is very likely to be weavers. widow specifically says "of the first... the last" in reference to herself

[stray grove]

That the Weavers are the First implies that those who come after (cough) would be referred to as Second, Third, Fourth of whatever

It could be generation it could be the order they responded to the Weavers’ song it could be their rank within the Citadel or any number of other things

It just doesn’t matter

The important thing here is that the Weavers are repeatedly called the First and of the two penitents in the Slab with that descriptor one is 100% a Weaver and the other is strongly implied to be one

It merits mentioning these are also the only two prisoners who weren’t absolved

Known prisoners*

Quite convenient that we happen to know of one other Weaver who is both still alive and was also punished for an unknown sin is it not

It’s almost like TC intended for us to make the connection or something (to say absolutely nothing else of the numerous parallels between Widow and FS)

[ocean crown]

True. It looks like, drained

[muted lantern]

My main issue is the casting thing and that we have no use of the term second, third, fourth, children anywhere else in the game. However, your points are strong and i'll concede it's a far more likely reason for the naming system than just a simple numbering system, one I hadn't really considered.

[stray grove]

wrt to the casting thing there are several viable explanations for that ranging from her being encased in metal to her being cast out from her station to anything else you can come up with ultimately we’ll never know for certain what it specifically refers to but I don’t think that’s much reason to discredit the theory

[sinful nimbus]

Bring back the Widow mask ripping cutscene (it looks cool)

[muted lantern]

I just said its more likely than what i was thinking, not discrediting the theory, just thats its the main issue i still have with it. It very much doesn't seem in line with what we actually see of widow/are told about her condition. being pinned and bound etc. it feels like if its meant to be specifically widow it would use a different term, staked, pinned, bound, etc. but i digress.

[foggy fractal]

bring back bugpipers >:C

[muted lantern]

You can at least agree it's a very odd term to use if intended to draw widow to mind

[stray grove]

I agree that it’s a strange way to describe her punishment

[lethal burrow]

Yeah, but the citadel hardly uses the most common word to come to mind when using those descriptions

[sinful nimbus]

bring back barnacle bay
oh wait

[lethal burrow]

first sinner has "constriction" if I recall correctly

[muted lantern]

pinned or bound would have been too obvious. but i feel theres better words to use

[muted lantern]

that at least is directly alluding to just putting her in a box

[foggy fractal]

bring back lifeblood spire
wait a minute

[sinful nimbus]

no no that one can stay cut 🙏

[muted lantern]

Honestly if intending for it to be widow id at least expect some fancy word that could be read as the de masking

[sinful nimbus]

Why is subtlety necessary

"Penance by ripping off the face" works just fine

[limpid summit]

How did they even really do that

Without having her die

[muted lantern]

crowbar and silk healing

[limpid summit]

Sometimes I think they purposefully keep face and mask ambiguous so they can do things like that plausibly

[muted lantern]

even natural masks seem to be an outer layer that grows around the inner head, since widow has a smaller head inside where her mask would be. Its more symbolic tearing off someones identity than a physically destructive act though i imagine it's also extrememly painful.

[limpid summit]

True

But that’s different from like even ripping off Midwife’s claw face thing

It goes around her whole head

No wonder she’s like manic

[silk dirge]

i wonder if the only reason widow is still alive is bc gms gave her silk to keep her going or some shit

there is like no other way shes the only full weaver alive

[muted lantern]

Likely as she does seem to be haunted now.

but she seems far more in control of herself than a typical haunted bug

so its likely just sustaining her

[plain gazelle]

the nefarious weaver's den weaver:

[frigid belfry]

does any other possible explanation exist for the gms arm fuckery

[muted lantern]

which arm fuckery

[frigid belfry]

gms left arm is cutoff during act 3 start but she has her right arm (presumably) missing in the abyss cocoon

did ari just forget which hand he cutoff or is there some other narrative reason

[muted lantern]

they probably had her on the other side of the room at first then changed their mind and mirrored the sprite.

[foggy fractal]

probably lmao

tc is nothing but inconcistent with this type of thing

[craggy smelt]

she has like 7 more arms

[foggy fractal]

hell every enemy with something in one arm switches to the other arm as soon as they face the other way

Khann too with his scar

[robust wagon]

THK is like this with their lost arm

[sinful nimbus]

2 years of polish

[foggy fractal]

tbf I just think TC doesn't care lmao

[sinful nimbus]

Its not a big deal its just funny

[foggy fractal]

true

people barely notice it

[stray grove]

I noticed it it actually really killed my immersion

I can’t play the game anymore

[foggy fractal]

it killed my grandma too !

💔

[stray grove]

I-I’m so sorry for your loss…

[fiery coral]

hornet's resting place in the hive?

this is to the left of the vespa dialogue place

[edgy nebula]

you think this is bad

khanns design is also just inconsistent

in his staggered animation he suddenly gains stripes on his leg-points, just like his hands, but they arent present anywhere else

i cant believe tc left this in, its unplayable

[honest sun]

phantom and lace are trying to stop us from awake or kill gms?

[edgy nebula]

the only reason phantom is fighting us is because theyd rather die in combat than live a meaningless life, im not too sure about lace but she seems to be battling alot of feelings, she's inclined to protect and serve her mother and dislikes hornet because of gms wanting to take hornet to grow stronger, but she overcomes her loyalty to gms in the end

[lethal burrow]

Phantom is the Valhalla flavour of suicidal.

lace is more complicated

[edgy nebula]

why didnt phantom just go to bilewater and get eaten by muckmaggots? is she stupid?

[limpid summit]

Pretty much this

She simultaneously hates her mother and desperately seeks her approval

“See me, your daughter…”

What does she mean by I will not take

[unique canopy]

Lace is a child who wants attention from her mom, but never got any positive attention from her mom, so now she's running around breaking her mom's things because that's the only way left she can think of to get her mom's attention. It's not uncommon for children whose parents are emotionally distant or straight up negligent.

[ornate pier]

Just a consequence of sprite flipping which wasn't accounted for

[graceful kraken]

well i mean i’d rather be stabbed to death than eaten alive….

[edgy nebula]

honestly why did lace even protect the citadel from threats

[limpid summit]

Man

I wish we got GMS needolin

TC really likes to show not tell with their final bosses

Which is like

Good I guess

But absrad should have had new dnd

[ornate pier]

Isn't it like she did the opposite

Literally killed everyone in it

[sinful nimbus]

NDDing GMS wouldn't really make much sense and there are other ways to characterize her tbf

[plain gazelle]

silk heart dialogue is GMS needolin dialogue tbf

[sinful nimbus]

true...

[edgy nebula]

i thought she did? i must be misremembering

[foggy fractal]

I mean I'm sure they know about it, they just don't care enough to go through the extra work to make it consistent

[ornate pier]

Caretaker talks about it

[foggy fractal]

which is fair

[ornate pier]

Said most who crossed paths with her were killed

I assume she is the main reason as to why the citadel bugs are all mostly dead

[unique canopy]

Caretaker was speculating. She kept it "clean and quiet" by killing people, but he was only guessing her motives.

[ornate pier]

Oh he says she was could have both been its protector and killed people

Weird

I assume she could be guarding gms? As part of her very complex relationship with her mother

[limpid summit]

But they could have done literally anything with that interaction

What if she grabbed you by the needolin strings and used the thrash attack

How prime GMS was moving against Atla and the Weavers

[sinful nimbus]

Pretty sure she screams

[limpid summit]

Does she

[limpid summit]

I saw the video and people were saying she just screams randomly

[sinful nimbus]

she does that too pretty sure

[limpid summit]

This is so buns

Cmon

[sinful nimbus]

She should react by throwing another rock at you

[foggy fractal]

hi

[swift mortar]

What story will Silksong hide from us?

[muted lantern]

This image keeps getting worse the longer I look

[swift mortar]

Nig

[icy spade]

https://tenor.com/view/hollow-knight-hollow-knight-silksong-hk-hks-hkss-gif-10721773101574343057

[wet oriole]

hornet's oppinion on lifeblood, a reference to a radiance??

[stray fog]

I think so

[robust wagon]

To the Radiance's infection, yes

[marble kayak]

Lifeblood really just became an Orange Radiance.

No wonder it’s taboo in Hollow Knight.

[wet oriole]

true

[unique canopy]

The real retcon will be when they reveal the Infection was actually orange lifeblood instead of the other way around

[wet oriole]

the fact that lifeblood seeds almost look the same as radiance infection seeds can possibly lead to such thing

[stray grove]

They don’t look the same, though. They’re also completely different things

Lightseeds are infected single-celled organisms. They’re not actually “infection seeds”

Lifeseeds on the other hand are actually seeds, because Lifeblood is a plant

The infection is not and they function completely differently

That Hornet notes similarities between the two doesn’t indicate that they’re actually connected

She’s just making note of the fact that both seem to have a similar effect on bugs, affecting their minds and altering their bodies

The way Lifeblood functions in SS is also a retcon because it’s inconsistent with how it functions in HK but that’s besides the point

[stray grove]

But while we’re on that note I should mention that this is also an inconsistency lol

The word taboo refers to something prohibited by social custom

In Silksong Hornet says this shit is capable of devastating entire ecosystems if left unchecked and Eva regards it as a malicious force

“A bit of a taboo” is one hell of an understatement

Also if the intention was for it to have had these effects in HK we certainly would have seen them in Joni’s Repose if nowhere else but it just doesn’t happen

Yet Hornet’s apparently seen this shit before so yeah it’s just a retcon lmao

[wet oriole]

we don't actually know how lightseeds form or where do they come from it's hard to say, they could actually grow out of infected roots or smth

[stray grove]

We do

[wet oriole]

show me

[stray grove]

A single-celled organism, completely infected. Scurries about simple-mindedly.

It’s a single celled organism that’s been infected

[wet oriole]

ok then

[honest sun]

I have a theory that maybe the reason why some bugs have hands and other dont its because hands mean the bug is an adult/is grown. But it wouldnt make sense that herrah doesnt haves

[stray grove]

It’s just the art style

That has no lore implications

[honest sun]

Its just a game theory.......

[vestal juniper]

I UNDERSTAND THE SHIT ABOUT VOID NOT HAVING WILL AND STUFF IS NONSENSE BUT!! IF VOID HAS NO VOICE... THEN WHY DOES THE COLLECTOR GIGGLE

[timber pond]

There are no enemies in Jonis repose

There needs to be living organism's near the lifeblood for it to change them.

we dont see this in Hallownest for 2 reasons:

1: Probably because it has to be ingested, and 90% of the time lifeblood is extremely out of the way of any living thing in the game map itself, ofthen hidden in places most things cant ever reach.

2: Interaction between the Infection and lifeblood is Undocumented. I feel as though, Infected individuals could not face any meaningful change if they ingest lifeblood however, as the infection has probably pushed out any other fluid and KEEPS OUT any other fluid that could inhabit the host.

[stray grove]

Hornet claims to have seen it so this is irrelevant

For Lifeblood to have any effect it is ingested, read Salubra’s dialogue please

We never see any evidence in HK of this phenomenon Hornet in SS claims is widespread

Interaction between infection and lifeblood is entirely baseless you just made that up

[timber pond]

She only says that she saw it "in her home" . so I assume deepnest, because the lifeblood there is more prevalent in multiple spots.

[stray grove]

Joni’s own corpse is left in pristine condition despite her use of the substance

[timber pond]

The blessing is probably a "source" like Zylotl talks of.

[stray grove]

Then why don’t we observe similar effects in Joni

The entire area is completely overgrown and yet her corpse is left untouched. Why?

The answer is because it’s a retcon

[vestal juniper]

once the being has been drained of soul, they could be left a visibly unaffected but effectively dead and drained husked

[timber pond]

Because zylotl probably either forcefully injected it and modified it with his lab equipment.

[stray grove]

Irrelevant

Hornet says she observed similar shit in her home caves, is that also the result of Lifeblood “injection”?

Because that’s not what she says

[timber pond]

Its relevant if the state of lifeblood spread is affected by modification.

[stray grove]

But it isn’t

Hornet says as much

[timber pond]

Well in hallownest its slow as you say

[stray grove]

This isn’t a modified strain this is what Lifeblood naturally does when allowed to spread

[vestal juniper]

dude you need to chill the hell out 💀 it is not that serious

[stray grove]

It’s not that it’s slow it just doesn’t happen

Joni’s Repose is clearly overgrown

It’s full of the stuff

[timber pond]

So yes, perhaps it does do the same thing. In silksong, it probably just exploded far more quickly because of the expiremnt

[stray grove]

You’re backpedaling

[wet oriole]

keep quiet, it's interesting to read

[timber pond]

There is nothing in jonis repose for it to affect

[stray grove]

Joni herself

Again, her body is not plasmified

Look at it

[vestal juniper]

it is funny hearing him get so needlessly pressed

[stray grove]

Nobody’s pressed

[timber pond]

Probably because she didn't inject a metric fuckton

[stray grove]

I thought you just admitted injection was irrelevant

It has these effects anyway

Otherwise Hornet’s comments are incoherent

[timber pond]

Injection and ingestion will probably lead to the same thing. But injection is far a more volatile option.

[stray grove]

If the difference is timing Joni’s been there for god knows how long
If it’s a question of spread Lifeblood has clearly spread throughout the Repose, to an even greater degree than Wormways actually

[stray grove]

But time and spread are both accounted for in this case

[timber pond]

Its the diffrence between micro dosing it and taking 10 killos of meth at once

[stray grove]

Although even this claim is unsubstantiated

Hornet implies it spreads very quickly if given the chance

Do you want me to fetch the actual entries

[timber pond]

The "chance" likely being the amount and the method

[stray grove]

But that doesn’t make sense, she’s speaking from personal experience

You’re saying that what happened in Wormways was unprecedented due to the method, Hornet says it’s not

But even if it is

[stray grove]

.

[timber pond]

Yes because it likely happened in deepnest, and was then suppressed because there are alot of cocoon there.

[stray grove]

This is another backpedal

[timber pond]

I said that before

[stray grove]

You’re not actually striking at the main point

[cold solstice]

I like how in silksong we have flying lifeblood seed

[vestal juniper]

ehhhhhh.. i dont think that's quite it.
radiance makes those infected inherently violent and mindless, they lash out

while the lab assistant does this, it's hard to nail exactly how it works since the alchemist doesnt

[stray grove]

What happened in Wormways isn’t unprecedented according to Hornet, who herself mentions that the substance spreads extremely quickly irrespective of the “conditions”
And even if we accept this is the distinction, Joni’s Repose has had ample time to do the same shit. It doesn’t

[timber pond]

There is likely a diffrence between manualy injecting seeds everywhere and natural spread. But yes, the effects in the end are the same.

[vestal juniper]

can someone give me a tl;dr as to what we are discussing

[stray grove]

That there is a difference is baseless and if there is one it is negligible in this case

[stray grove]

.

Joni’s Repose has had plenty of time to do this shit

There’s also no evidence of these effects to be found anywhere in the map even in areas where Lifeblood is presumably established

[timber pond]

Does she say it spread quickly? I though she just stated the effects.

[wet oriole]

about lifeblood spread

[tawdry flare]

Plasmified Joni in the Refresh DLC 🔥 🔥

[vestal juniper]

i think it's because the howling cliffs are SO empty, compared to the wormways
the wormways it is made to be a very specific point that it is like. jam-packed with worms EVERYWHERE!!!!!!!!!! the howling cliffs, on the other hand, are mostly barren, except for some bugs that are already infected with the radiance. and we're unsure what would happen if lifeblood tried infecting a vessel already consumed by the radiance

[timber pond]

Yeah I dont think lifeblood can inhabit infected indaviduals

Because all thier juices have been pushed out by the infection already

[vestal juniper]

yeah, it's like trying to eat a steak but someone's already eaten all the meat so you're just left with the bone

[stray grove]

Pharloom shall quickly learn the curse of this substance. What benefits it provides can be swiftly outweighed.

She’s clearly speaking from prior experience here

In my home caves, when once this substance was allowed to flourish, I saw similar aberrations. This is wonder tainted strong with revulsion.

Here the condition is just that it’s “allowed to flourish”, which it has in Joni’s Repose

I sense the forbidden blood coursing through you, that which grows and reshapes the world in its own vulgar image.

This is what Eva says about it, despite having no knowledge of what’s happening in Wormways

[stray grove]

This implication does not exist in game, so while I can accept it’s possible I have to dismiss it given the fact that it’s baseless

[timber pond]

"Pharloom shall quickly learn. Dosent nessciarily mean it spreads super fast. It likely just means the affects of the aberrations of its effects will soon be known

[stray grove]

It doesn’t matter what it means, if you read my earlier messages I explained repeatedly that the speed of spread is completely irrelevant when it comes to discussing the inconsistencies in its effects between the two games

[vestal juniper]

i mean it's either way. there is equal part evidence for it being the case as there is against it.
frankly, i think the logical assumption is that it cant, and henceforth, that's why it hasnt. i think that explains more than a retcon would

[timber pond]

There is nothing for lifeblood to infect in jonis repose also.

[stray grove]

This is not reasoning, the burden of proof is on the one making the claim

[stray grove]

As I have repeatedly mentioned, Joni’s corpse is not plasmified

[graceful grail]

I bet we will put the Lifeblood in wormways into a really big bug.

I bet thats what the lifeblood beast in hollownest is - PKs solution for lifeblood.

[stray grove]

Baseless

That PK did anything about Lifeblood contradicts Salubra’s description of it

[vestal juniper]

under this logic, you havent provided any evidence it's a retcon lmfao. i hope you realize how that sounds a tad silly

[vestal juniper]

isnt it well-accepted that pk banned its use?

[graceful grail]

If it was viewed as taboo it was probably because pk wanted it to be known as that

[stray grove]

Either you have not been following the discussion or you only arrived recently

That doesn’t make sense, I explained this before but I will do so again for the sake of clarity

The word taboo means something prohibited by social custom

Salubra’s exact phrasing is “a bit of a taboo”

[graceful grail]

Taboo also means there is a trade off for using it

[vestal juniper]

social customs can be easily influenced bu those in power although i admit it's not a direct connection

[stray grove]

Not only is this a massive understatement if it’s in reference to something outlawed by the divine decree of a literal deity, it’s a massive understatement in general considering what we’re told it’s capable of

[vestal juniper]

icl that isn't what taboo means lol

[stray grove]

He is a literal deity.

If he outlawed it it would not be a taboo

[timber pond]

How do you know Slalubras knowledge encompasses its history?

[stray grove]

Salubra is an NPC. They put her into the game to provide exposition. Are you claiming TC included dialogue that was deliberately misleading?

In HK, there is nothing to suggest Salubra could be wrong, and she is presented as knowledgeable, so there is no reason to reject the information she provides us with. That’s why it’s a retcon

[ornate pier]

A lot of taboos are religious in nature????

[timber pond]

No im saying that they develop chracters with thier own perspective and perception. Therefore they can be wrong or not tell the whole truth.

[stray grove]

You are talking about something that was allegedly outlawed by the divine decree of a literal god-king

[timber pond]

They think of the bugs first not us

[stray grove]

To describe it as “a bit of a taboo” is simply absurd

[ornate pier]

Are a lot of taboos not because something is disallowed in a religion

[timber pond]

Salubra is absurd

[stray grove]

Taboo means something prohibited by social custom

Not something made illegal by a god

[graceful grail]

PK was only worshiped as a deity

[stray grove]

It’s also nonsensical in the context of lifeblood being able to devastate entire ecosystems

[stray grove]

He was a god. He was also a king

At least Paradox agrees the phrasing is inconsistent

[graceful grail]

God in hollowknight is subjective

[timber pond]

Im also suggesting she is using wording that isn't entirely encompassing, it is her personal expirnce with it and does not represent the world.

[stray grove]

But without anything to suggest this we can only go off what TC tell us, you understand that, right?

TC can also change their ideas throughout development

Which is probably what happened in this case

Which makes it a retcon

That’s not inherently a bad thing but it’s what it is

In HK Lifeblood was clearly different

It was described differently and it functioned differently

That is how TC chose to present it

That is what they conveyed to the player

To argue they were leading us on is very strange, the more charitable assumption here is they changed their minds

[graceful grail]

There is a lifeblood beast in hollownest, thats the key diffrence imo

[timber pond]

We can go off thier standing and sounding of thier world and life. Team cherry chose not to reveal the whole truth and only a fragment of it through a fragment of a chracter.

This "representation " is so small in the grand picture, I would not define it as a strict retcon.

[forest lynx]

you know the sea of sorrow trailer

[stray grove]

No it’s not. He’s a higher being, which are literal deities

[graceful grail]

Higher being is a title, not a species

[stray grove]

It’s a retcon for several reasons which I’ve described, but what we call it doesn’t matter so long as we agree there’s an inconsistency here

I don’t really care about using buzzwords

[timber pond]

There is nothing to define him that way besides being in a dream

[stray grove]

I just want to get the point across

[stray grove]

He’s… explicitly referred to as such?

Both in game and by TC themselves

I’m talking about the Pale King if you’re confused

[timber pond]

Im saying the lifeblood beast is not strictly defined as a higher being

[stray grove]

I never said it was a species. It’s a title that pertains to the deities of the setting

[stray grove]

Sure, I agree. That wasn’t about LBB