sk-lore

[frosty gate]

Dryya looks mad peaceful there istg

[upbeat fog]

She got her well deserved break

[frosty gate]

It totally looks like she just gave out after hordes of Mantises

I genuinely just think TL was insanely scared Dryya was faking it or just didn't know she was dead

[sinful nimbus]

He's chilling like right next door to her

[frosty gate]

You sent hordes of guys to kill one small lady and she basically killed everyone, wydyd

I'd be fucking terrified

I wouldn't go anywhere near her

It also makes sense that TL is just insane enough that he doesn't think Dryya is dead since he would just go in and kill WL if he knew

[sinful nimbus]

He's infected (which is known to strip you of your fear) and he unironically thinks he can harm White Lady

[frosty gate]

There's no reason for him to wait, he knows she's defenseless

[sinful nimbus]

idk why he would care bout Dryya

[frosty gate]

Okay, I need you to pull up proof of that because I honestly can't remember shit about that

I don't remember people being "Stripped from fear"

[frigid belfry]

well its impossible to tell in the traitor lords case, but extreme infection just removes your sense of self preservation as we see ingame

debatable as to how much TL is affected by the infection

[frosty gate]

Right, but like, which bugs do you mean when you say that

[sinful nimbus]

Violent Husks come to mind

But every single enemy in game besides basic animals and cowardly husks don't care about self preservation

[frigid belfry]

exploding husks, literally every other mob that spews infection acid, the moss people under prophets,

[sinful nimbus]

And cowardly husks do it because of old instinct

[frosty gate]

Aren't most mobs dead anyway? They can't really fear

[sinful nimbus]

They're still conscious

[frigid belfry]

i dont recall any sapient enemies that attack you violently with no sense of self preservation or reason

mantis's do it for territorial reasons, mawlek does it from loneliness, etc

[sinful nimbus]

I was thinking infected enemies sorry

Mawlek is infected though

[frosty gate]

There's also the very important detail that TL is weird because he was a willing host for the Infection

[sinful nimbus]

Within mantis culture specifically

[frosty gate]

Vaguely

[sinful nimbus]

But I don't know why that's relevant

[frosty gate]

Wdym

[frigid belfry]

yes, but their dn dialogue tells us they still have consciousness and a reason to attack

[sinful nimbus]

Every infected bug is a willing host of the infection that's how you get infected

[frigid belfry]

we know the infection factually reverts a bug back to basic instincts or habits

[sinful nimbus]

Radiance makes false promises n such

[frigid belfry]

and its implied heavy infection means the radiance can directly influence a bug and remove their sense of self preservation

[upbeat fog]

This is in fact not true

[frosty gate]

No? What
Infection is a virus, most didn't choose that.

TL was specifically said by the Hunter to willingly take the Infection

The only other case I can think of is Soul Master

And that guy was just a Salty Dumbass

[sinful nimbus]

The infection is not a traditional illness no its a dreamborne affliction caused by Radiance getting into your mind

If it was a traditional virus willpower would mean jack

You can't say "no" to the flu

Hunter never notes that about Traitor Lord either

[frosty gate]

I mean, yes, but most things can't resist it

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah that's the point

[upbeat fog]

This is also not true

[sinful nimbus]

Traitor Lord couldn't either

[craggy smelt]

infected consciously succumb to the Radiance's temptation, they don't always understand what they're getting into (Radiance lies, etc.)
the traitors did, they embraced the infection knowing how it worked, they were fine with the cost in exchange for the power

[sinful nimbus]

Proof?

[sinful nimbus]

This is never said afaik

It wouldn't change how the infection works anyway

[sinful nimbus]

This doesn't say that

Well it doesn't say he was unique in doing so

[craggy smelt]

the mantises know how the infection works and resist it
the traitors embraced the infection

[frosty gate]

If you have the willpower to resist it, and you don't, then you willingly take it

[upbeat fog]

Thank you I didn’t want to find this

[frosty gate]

Most bugs just don't have the willpower

[sinful nimbus]

That's... the point yes. They don't have the willpower to not willingly take in the infection

That's how you get infected

[craggy smelt]

Hunter calls it a false hope, but the traitors did in fact become more powerful
their dream nail dialogue is less complex than the regular mantis tribe, suggesting they're starting to suffer mentally though

[frosty gate]

Yes, so Mantis Lord is a special case because he did willingly take and became stronger and also more crazy than others. You said it, most bugs revert to animal instincts, this guy doesn't

[sinful nimbus]

But he does

[upbeat fog]

Willpower will give out eventually and that is what happened to the infected most didn’t willingly take the infection

[sinful nimbus]

And he's not a special case the only unique thing about him is he comes from a background of bugs that are usually too based to get infected

[frigid belfry]

he just becomes more aggressive, his main purpose is still there, and he is conscious aswell

[sinful nimbus]

Traitor Lord didn't have the willpower to not take Radiance's offers either because... he took them

[frosty gate]

More conscious than most bugs

[sinful nimbus]

Which isn't unique to him

[craggy smelt]

Hunter recognizes the cost and considers it a false promise, anyone who didn't understand the cost might succumb to temptation
it's a willing submission to what's offered, they just don't necessarily understand that what's offered is false and will get them infected
the Traitors did, they just did it anyway because they were cool with the cost in exchange for the power the Infection actually does grant

[frosty gate]

You are not understanding how this works

[frigid belfry]

elaborate

[sinful nimbus]

He's not the only infected bug to retain their "purpose" (See every CoT guard and miner) and he's not the only one which is conscious (See literally every infected bug)

[upbeat fog]

The mantises have strong wills but he wanted the infection to take over to become stronger

[frigid belfry]

wrong, the options you mentioned are explicitly stated by the hunter to have reverted to their habits/instincts

conscious in this sense means aware and interacting with their surroundings without major external influence

no other infected bug does this

[sinful nimbus]

What makes you think the traitors are different

[frosty gate]

The Radiance doesn't give you a deal or promise you jack, she just takes control of your body because you can't resist it, but if you are aware you can resist it, and go by you own volition to get infected, then you are a special case

[frigid belfry]

outright stated to be exiled and visibly taken in the infection

[sinful nimbus]

Except for the ones that do in the early stages

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah?

[frigid belfry]

thats the point im making

[honest sun]

haunt..... dreams............ silksong dream dlc gms?

[sinful nimbus]

That they are in the early stages?

[upbeat fog]

I kinda understand the traitor lords betrayal he was the only boy and 3 girl siblings I would have crashed out too if I was in that situation

[sinful nimbus]

I agree but they are clearly at a point where they are overtly hostile with little reason

[frosty gate]

Who? The mantises?

[sinful nimbus]

Although Traitor Lord probably hated WL's guts pre-infection too

[frosty gate]

Or the TL?

[sinful nimbus]

Both

Anyway I don't really get what y'all are trying to say

[frosty gate]

Yes, that's the whole point, TL hates the Pales

[frigid belfry]

bugs that are infected normally cannot resist, and display aggressive traits, loss of major consciousness, lack of self preservation, and loss of complex thought

bugs that are literally just infected dont display this obviously

[sinful nimbus]

Traitor Lord was infected normally

[frigid belfry]

outright stated to have taken in the infection willingl

[sinful nimbus]

All bugs accept the infection inside of themselves that's why you can resist if you don't do that

[spark valve]

all infected do

[frosty gate]

Traitor is very much conscious, very much tries to preserve himself and specifically stated to "Embrace the Infection"

[spark valve]

infection functions by manipulating your desires

[sinful nimbus]

No one thinks he didn't embrace the infection we just don't think that's unique

[spark valve]

traitor lord's desire for strength was manipulated

sly almost got infected because it offered him visions of his pupils

[frigid belfry]

yeah the point in making is that it affects bugs differently depending on willpower, time infected, etc

[spark valve]

bretta almost got infected because she wanted attention and radiance was giving her that

[sinful nimbus]

Willpower is irrelevant once you are infected

[frigid belfry]

normal bugs are manipulated into it with no real gain except becoming a dead puppet

[sinful nimbus]

"they say that the harder you struggled against it, the more it consumed you. "

[upbeat fog]

That is not true

[sinful nimbus]

Proof?

[frigid belfry]

those with enough willpower to willingly take it in display more consciousness

look at moss prophet

[spark valve]

everyone willingly takes it in

[frigid belfry]

again, not in the sense that they fully understand it

[sinful nimbus]

Moss Prophet ends up the same as the average Husk Guard lol

[spark valve]

they all understand it the same amount

[sinful nimbus]

He didn't get the better end of the stick

[frigid belfry]

normal bugs are lulled without understanding the infection

[foggy fractal]

epic fail

[sinful nimbus]

That's how you normally get infected yeah

[spark valve]

traitor lord also doesn't understand the infection

[frigid belfry]

outrigth stated to have taken to in willingly to become stronger

[spark valve]

because it tricked him into it

[upbeat fog]

No most infected were unwillingly infected like a virus

[frigid belfry]

he has strong enough willpower to resist, and was not tricked, but possibly manipulated

[sinful nimbus]

But the infection isn't contagious its from the dream realm

[spark valve]

he did not have enough willpower to resist

[sinful nimbus]

If it was normally contagious you wouldn't be able to resist it

[spark valve]

he didn't resist

[upbeat fog]

It is a dream virus basically

[frigid belfry]

proof

[spark valve]

he fell for temptation that's a failure of willpower

[sinful nimbus]

He's infected therefore he did not resist it

[frigid belfry]

??

[spark valve]

bruh you can't read

[frosty gate]

Desire is not temptation

[frigid belfry]

people have posted proof right above that it was willing

hence desire

[spark valve]

yes because he got tricked

because he lacked the willpower to resist the temptation

[cyan estuary]

How did you get the silk tag?

[frosty gate]

He didn't??? He just wanted to get stronger

[frigid belfry]

still retains willpower to remain conscious

[frigid belfry]

i am ari's secret account

[spark valve]

and he got tricked by infection's false promises

[upbeat fog]

There is no trickery he wanted the infection

[spark valve]

there is trickery READ

[spark valve]

I beg of you just read

it's so explicit

[frigid belfry]

where does it say trickery

[cyan estuary]

Lol

[spark valve]

'A false hope'

[sinful nimbus]

Bardoon Sly and Bretta are all given promises in an attempt to get them to accept the infection into themselves

So was Soul Master Xero Elder Hu etc

[spark valve]

it's a false hope a false promise of strength

[sinful nimbus]

That's just how you get infected

[frosty gate]

"A false hope" of getting stronger

[spark valve]

yes

a trick

a deception

[frosty gate]

Do steroids deceive you my dude?

No

[sinful nimbus]

The infection does eventually end up weakening you

[spark valve]

if a dream god offers you false steroids to invade your mind
yes

that is a trick

[foggy fractal]

🗣️ just say no ! the radiance legally can not infect you without your consent !

[frosty gate]

Pretty much how it works actually

[sinful nimbus]

😭

[upbeat fog]

I understand the misunderstanding it is talking about the hunter thinking this but the thing is the traitor lords betrayal got what he wanted he does double the damage as most mantises

[cyan estuary]

M

[modest mesa]

Am i the only one seeing these two as similar rooms or am i going insane

Like the surrounding shells around it are matching up..

[frosty gate]

As all regular Mantises

[spark valve]

he was probably not trying to become a slave to the angry dream god

[frosty gate]

Layout is similar but probably a coincidence

[spark valve]

plus it's a matter of time before he dies

[cyan estuary]

M

[frosty gate]

He isn't

[spark valve]

yes he is

all infected are

[upbeat fog]

This is what I meant I was kinda multitasking while typing

[sinful nimbus]

The room shape is a reused asset although the color background assets etc are all different so its probably not intentional

[upbeat fog]

He knew what he was getting into

[spark valve]

no he didn't

[frosty gate]

How is he a slave to the Infection when he doesn't do anything he doesn't want to do already? He's literally making plans while infected

[spark valve]

have you played the game

[frosty gate]

Have you???

[upbeat fog]

I just saw a video about this

[sinful nimbus]

Infected are pretty explicitly all under Rad's will

[spark valve]

infected don't retain free will

[upbeat fog]

Yes

[sinful nimbus]

Infected doing what they did before the infection is pretty standard stuff

I'm also sure Rad doesn't mind TL messing with PK's wife

Still a slave

If you looked at TL and went like "Wow there were no downsides to this" idk what to tell you

[upbeat fog]

Well yeah the radiance wants to kill all the pale kings allies

[spark valve]

it could not be more explicit that the promise of strength is a deception

[frosty gate]

So why the hell does he have the perfect free will to go out of his way to go and kill the Lady she hated

[upbeat fog]

He knew the downsides

[silk dirge]

i mean no shit a room that is supposed to look like the wastes looks like another room in the wastes

[spark valve]

To become stronger, more powerful... these thoughts haunt my dreams during the darkest times. A false hope, but it can burn so brilliantly in one's mind.
team cherry did not write this because traitor lord definitely knew what he was getting into

[spark valve]

infected just keep doing what they were doing and radiance has no reason to stop him

[silk dirge]

i wonder if radiance could command or infected bugs with as much precision as gms could

i would say probably

[frosty gate]

It is insanely stupid to think to think TL is like any other infected despite he's the only one in the entire game explicitly stated to have EMBRACED the Infection

[sinful nimbus]

Precision 🥀

[spark valve]

they all embrace infection

[upbeat fog]

Yes he did what is so confusing

[sinful nimbus]

Vro can't control a hardbone hopper

[silk dirge]

she just wanted to see cute deer hopping

[spark valve]

soul master embraced it, xero embraced it, sly and bretta are in the process of embracing it, the point of infection is that it manipulates your desires to make you embrace it

[sinful nimbus]

He's not the only one in the game explicitly stated to have been infected like that idk what to tell you

[upbeat fog]

Maybe not as well as gms because the strings are more direct but yes

[frosty gate]

It's the only one Hunter notes.

[silk dirge]

like myla dream nail dialog seems pretty targetted

[sinful nimbus]

We have 5 other examples of Rad trying to infect people in a similar manner

[spark valve]

traitor lord isn't special, his desires got manipulated to make him embrace it

[silk dirge]

also no way those infected lightseeds just randomly decided to hop into broken vessel

[sinful nimbus]

Have you been reading the convo dawg

[silk dirge]

that was definitely precision control by radiance

[spark valve]

myla's material desires for the crystals are how she gets infected

[upbeat fog]

Not exactly

[spark valve]

yes exactly

that's how it works

[frosty gate]

I gave up because the arguments are not clicking honestly, so no

[silk dirge]

im talking about how precise haunting and infection can be

[sinful nimbus]

Hunter Soul Master Bardoon Sly and Bretta all go through the same thing that's just how Rad tries to infect people and if she didn't infect people like that you wouldn't be able to resist the infection

[silk dirge]

bc gms was able to send entire citadel groups after specific weavers

[spark valve]

yeah I'm just trying to explain the basic story of hk and how infection works

[sinful nimbus]

If I had a nickel for every time I've asked someone if they are reading the convo and they responded with "No" today I'd have two nickels

[upbeat fog]

No, the people who get infected have either lose the will to stop it or embraced it there isn’t just embracing it through manipulation

[sinful nimbus]

Whenever I see them I can only remember the Xbox showcase where they were teased and everyone got super upset tbh

[upbeat fog]

Ok dr. Doof

[foggy fractal]

let's make that three

[spark valve]

that is embracing it

if they stop resisting the temptation that's embracing it

there's no difference there

[silk dirge]

lmao why

i dont remember this

[frosty gate]

You guys are not making it easy honestly because I find it ridiculous to think that every single bugs just said "Yeah of course Rad you can haunt my dreams" while having proof that some can't resist at all and others just say "Yeah I can probably resist this, but it will make me stronger, so let's take it"
Its stupid

[upbeat fog]

There is no temptation

[frosty gate]

But whatever, I'm gonna sleep

[spark valve]

yes there is

[upbeat fog]

Have a good night

[upbeat fog]

Proof?

[spark valve]

myla xero hu soul master false knight traitor lord sly bretta

[foggy fractal]

upset at the deers ?

tf did they do

[upbeat fog]

No like actual proof

[silk dirge]

also xbox showcase and other trailers showing act 3 areas is really funny

[spark valve]

those... are

[sinful nimbus]

Mass psychosis. Genuinely the channel was like unusable for an hour with everyone talking about TC selling out n stuff 😭

[silk dirge]

oh

[spark valve]

literally every one of those infection is done via manipulation

[silk dirge]

i thought people were upset at the deer lmao

[spark valve]

every single case of infection with information about specifics is like that

[upbeat fog]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Hollow_Knight_Wiki go here and point out your proof

[silk dirge]

i was like why are people hating on random ass deer enemies

[spark valve]

every line of myla dialogue

soul master seeing a false cure in his dreams

xero cutting the plague in his dreams

false knight's desire for strength

[silk dirge]

the big deer need to chill the fuck out tho

[spark valve]

hu being manipulated into thinking the mantes were infected

[silk dirge]

the ones in the karmelita area

they are so aggressive lmao

[spark valve]

bretta feeling seen

[foggy fractal]

oh this, yeah idk man like

[spark valve]

sly seeing visions of his pupils and esmy

[upbeat fog]

Ok I can’t type fast enough to talk about all that

[cyan estuary]

M

[foggy fractal]

did these people get haunted by gms

[cyan estuary]

Yes

[upbeat fog]

This isn’t even the hollow knight lore channel go take your wack ideas over there

[spark valve]

this is widely accepted and incredibly explicit in the game

if you want to dispute it you can go there

it's literally the game's thesis statement from the first npc

[foggy fractal]

thesis statment ? why so studious

[sinful nimbus]

Elderbug is not studious

[silk dirge]

anyways i still find it really funny tc used the fucking diving bell key in the demo

[upbeat fog]

I came here for silksong stuff saw traitor lord and joined the discussion thinking it was a quick one and then I could talk about silksong

[sinful nimbus]

Bro doesn't know the door we break at the beginning of the game which he can clearly see is gone

[foggy fractal]

oh my bad

[silk dirge]

you can claim tc put an act 3 item in the deep docks demo and be correct

[spark valve]

go back to geometry star

[foggy fractal]

geometry dash

🗣️

[sinful nimbus]

You can talk about Silksong if you want we were just talking about HK here because ATP this is kinda the lore-general channel

[spark valve]

no like the class where you learn what an angle is

[silk dirge]

banned

[foggy fractal]

banban

[spark valve]

and yeah dash yo ass out of here

[sinful nimbus]

He can see ts bro 🥀

He can literally see its rubble

[foggy fractal]

oh now he's elder bug, he may have trouble with vision

[silk dirge]

we only talk about good games in this channel like "studying for vector calc final tomorrow"

[foggy fractal]

you ?

[silk dirge]

yes

[foggy fractal]

gl

[silk dirge]

dont worry

[spark valve]

it's partially obscured in a dark cavern really far away

[silk dirge]

it wont be as stupid as e&m

[upbeat fog]

Good luck

[sinful nimbus]

Its not that dark

[spark valve]

[sinful nimbus]

He's actually just blind dude

[upbeat fog]

I was going to ask if the bell eater had kidnap the bell children

[sinful nimbus]

There's literally unexplained light emanating from the door

[spark valve]

he's senile he tried to use a crystal as a pillow

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah that's the point

[spark valve]

also this is probably not diegetic

[sinful nimbus]

I'm calling him a moron I didn't know you were the #1 Elderbug fan

[halcyon merlin]

ah right what's the deal with them

did bell beast give birth during act 3 intro

[sinful nimbus]

OK but they put random lights coming out of the bellhart bells in Greymoor

That serves no gameplay purpose

[foggy fractal]

aura,

[sinful nimbus]

Also KP is generally bright

[spark valve]

those are artificial and could have actual lights in there

[silk dirge]

does hk just all take place in the dark

mfs got good night vision wtf

[upbeat fog]

No that’s why I thought they were kidnapped

[foggy fractal]

no cuz I'm there :D

[spark valve]

it's a don't think about it situation

[silk dirge]

i think with bell eater its likely that bell beast was afraid to take her kids out while bell eater was around

[halcyon merlin]

it doesn't make sense if they were kidnapped imo

[sinful nimbus]

OK fine what about the Citadel

[silk dirge]

random light source hb

[halcyon merlin]

they would've already been devoured by the bell eater

[sinful nimbus]

Is there a giant silkfly lamp there we just don't see

[spark valve]

sure

[halcyon merlin]

or killed

[spark valve]

or it's just all metal so reflecting stuff

[halcyon merlin]

true...

they were probably in a nest like thing during most of the game

[sinful nimbus]

Do you think the more soul in your body the bigger your silkfly will be

[silk dirge]

or maybe bell beast didnt trust you until you killed bell eater

[foggy fractal]

nah

[silk dirge]

ok quick question do we think the silkflies in the cradle are dead weavers

[halcyon merlin]

then they only appear in act 3 because everything is falling apart

[keen raven]

do yall think the haunting is actual mindless aggression like the infection, or do they still maintain some form of order

[sinful nimbus]

Eh

I imagine they are silkflies guiding pilgrims as usual

[keen raven]

personally I see it as the latter

[upbeat fog]

To be fair you said birth which makes less sense

[silk dirge]

i mean we have a choral commandment pretty clearly saying the latter

[halcyon merlin]

it was just a joke lol

[keen raven]

oh right I forgot the haunted legit made written plans to capture hornet nvm

[silk dirge]

also speaking of haunting you know what wouldve been tuff

[upbeat fog]

I know

[upbeat fog]

No

[silk dirge]

when the opening poem is playing have the pharloom symbol slowly fade in the background

and then have some sort of like haunting cutscene

but not too obvious ofc

like the thk part of the opening cutscene in hk

[ornate pier]

Probably heavily varies

[keen raven]

hear me out
GMS is purposefully disguising herself as a kind of "citadel's voice" to lure people into getting haunted

[silk dirge]

i think it would especially work bc the opening poem has the gms heartbeat sound

[keen raven]

the pilgrims of songclave see their mercy as "the citadel granting them a little more living"

[silk dirge]

so like each heartbeat the cocoon fades in more and more

[keen raven]

the caretaker says "the citadel attracts pilgrims into its maw and consumes them"

[sleek chasm]

No Bcz the citadel all pilgrims imagine was during the weavers time

Now the citadel is just a husk

[keen raven]

I wouldn't say that

the citadel is in decline but it isn't dead ||until act 3||

[craggy smelt]

the Weavers were luring bugs to the citadel in the past, convincing bugs to come there and keep it working was a part of its design

[keen raven]

the haunting is just a more extreme version of what the citadel was doing before

[sleek chasm]

No

[keen raven]

forcing bugs into eternal servitude?

the haunting makes them biologically immortal, they don't need to rest or eat or drink

[upbeat fog]

Not exactly I get what you’re saying but not quite

[keen raven]

the citadel was in some strange dormant state and its caste were awoken as hornet arrived

[silk dirge]

i mean its quite different

[keen raven]

no matter the time period that same caste was always a puppet to something higher
whether it be the weavers, conductors, or GMS herself

[silk dirge]

the citadel people were brainwashed but it was not like

literal mind control

[keen raven]

I think the haunting is a curse that disguises itself as a blessing for those who are infected with it
"it'd seem a blessing if one wanted to connect themselves to something higher, but now that I'm free it seems a horror" - pavo

[silk dirge]

underworks is even more cooked when you realize they can fucking leave at any time theres like nothing stopping them theres no guards

[sleek chasm]

Welllll

[ornate pier]

Its like at death's doorstep at least

[sleek chasm]

What about white ward

[silk dirge]

they just keep working bc the citadel brainwashed them that hard into thinking they need to keep working

[keen raven]

it was like that before the haunting, they worked in hope that the people above would let them ascend to the choral chambers

[silk dirge]

i mean what about it

the conductors werent literally mind controlling people through it

[sleek chasm]

They were convinced they would be punished if they did

[silk dirge]

tho that wouldve been a cool inclusion to the story imo

kind of another layer to the haunting to make it more interesting

[sleek chasm]

It wasn’t the bugs choice to be taken to whiteward tho

[silk dirge]

having it start as conductors trying to force everyone below them into eternal servitude and then that gifts everyones mind to gms

[keen raven]

I think the citadel caste specifically retained more of themselves after the haunting than your average bug

[silk dirge]

yeah sure

what exactly are you trying to say here tho

[keen raven]

they had written plans to capture hornet, something they wouldn't need if it were a true hivemind
not to mention if the flies capture hornet one of them makes fun of her while the others watch

[sleek chasm]

I guess that not only gms was a dictator

[silk dirge]

i mean that could also be gms trying to make fun of hornet but its likely just the guards personality at that point yeah

[keen raven]

I highly doubt gms would make fun of hornet, doesn't fit her personality whatsoever

the haunting is a lot more complicated than the infection ngl

[upbeat fog]

Mostly

[silk dirge]

yeah

[keen raven]

the skarr are able to resist it due to karmelita's influence

the stilkin seemingly aren't affected at all

[silk dirge]

i like the theory that shermas song was actually preventing that one pilgrim from getting haunted

it makes a lot of sense

[keen raven]

the citadel caste itself functions much less than it used to but it's still there

[silk dirge]

song repels the haunting

[keen raven]

I think that's just a sequence thing

miss sherma there and that pilgrim is already haunted

they wouldn't have it haunted WHILE sherma is there

[silk dirge]

i mean yeah bc no song got played

[upbeat fog]

This is a brief summary of the haunting

[silk dirge]

sherma is keeping the pilgrim from being haunted at that moment

[silk dirge]

but once he leaves they get haunted

[keen raven]

who would win
the controlling threads of a god that string you up and force you to worship forever
or

tink tink tink tink "fa li do la si ma net"

[silk dirge]

i mean it would fit a lot with sherma having the wisdom of an innocent child

[upbeat fog]

That is simply because he is goated

[silk dirge]

for example the gate at the beginning is literally like the only gate not opened by song in pharloom lol

https://youtu.be/zs1I2Nk7-hY?si=u9Ao5e3Scb7nQa2U

[halcyon merlin]

TC should've made sherma somehow help hornet kill a boss

[stray fog]

He would provide emotional support

Maybe his song actually healed hornet

[keen raven]

I don't think its exactly like this

[unique canopy]

Has precedent with Karmelita

[silk dirge]

and the bell shrines and the whole citadel in general

[keen raven]

the boss attacks sherma and injures him which enrages hornet and she has the constant beast crest rage effect no matter what crest she's using

[halcyon merlin]

🔥

[silk dirge]

song repels gms -> song repels haunting

[upbeat fog]

A brief idea of what it is

[silk dirge]

this was probably a lot more prevalent before bell shrines got reworked

[stray fog]

Why did they remove the bell shrine mechanics

[keen raven]

why would gms have the citadel caste singing after she wakes them back up then

[halcyon merlin]

so peak

[silk dirge]

they said it was too complicated gameplay wise

im curious what it wouldve been like

but im guessing it probably wasnt good

[silk dirge]

i mean not really tho

its stated the citadel fell silent

after gms started waking

[upbeat fog]

The thing is Sherma is pretty young so he isn’t even in his prime yet

[keen raven]

talking about the period where it was dormant

after it wakes up there are groups walking through the halls with envoys singing

[silk dirge]

i mean i dont think a couple envoys singing are enough to like repel her influence over the entire citadel

everyone there is already haunted also

so it doesnt make any difference

weary pilgrim isnt haunted so the song could actually have an effect

[keen raven]

im still confused

the haunted are puppets but still individuals at the same time

[upbeat fog]

I don’t know if you know lovecraftian lore but gms got the azathoth treatment

[keen raven]

its weird

[stray fog]

Not full control

[silk dirge]

i mean they kind of do what they did before

[stray fog]

70% control or something

[silk dirge]

but gms can give specific directions probably

but when she isnt they just

fall back to what they used to do

[keen raven]

not in instinct though unlike the infection

[silk dirge]

anyways sherma discussion reminds me to mention how silly it is very few npcs actually comment on hornets silk powers lol

[keen raven]

I think when gms gives direct orders to the haunted it's signified by her screaming and a bunch of threads come raining from the skies like before the high halls gauntlet

[stray fog]

Haunted bugs could even read, which I think infected ones probably couldn't do
(evidence: the choral commandment telling them to capture hornet was a written order)

[silk dirge]

like shakra seems completely oblivious to the fact hornet is a weaver

[keen raven]

yeah and they're still organized
before you fight the gauntlet that lets you enter the whispering vaults, that vaultkeeper was having a speech to a bunch of caste members

[silk dirge]

despite the fact shed be the best to know out of like

regular mortal bugs

[stray fog]

True

[silk dirge]

im not counting mask maker or shamans as "regular mortal bugs" bc they clearly have special abilities

[stray fog]

She has only heard stories of Weavers, so that could be the reason

[keen raven]

tbf hornet looks almost nothing like a weaver

[silk dirge]

sees hornet pull out rune rage "ahh yes shes just got a silk spool like the citadel enemies"

[keen raven]

silk spool would be more like thread storm

[upbeat fog]

Azathoth created the old ones and elder gods but the old ones and elder gods put it into an eternal sleep because he was too dangerous to the universe. They created entities that had various roles to keep him asleep. This is a lot like gms’s situation

[silk dirge]

i mean yeah but id assume seeing silk powers would be incredibly suspicious for anyone lmao

also seeing hornet change a crest

shakra wondering why hornets needle can suddenly shoot beams forward

[keen raven]

I saw someone's comment that the citadel's society is a lot more insectoid than hallownest ever was
even the highest ranks of the citadel were ultimately servants
and it's ironic since the citadel is built like a gilded ant nest

[keen raven]

"she must've put some weird tool on"

[silk dirge]

post act 3 movie screening of red memory to every pilgrim

[sinful nimbus]

Me releasing a swarm of alive bees and dumping all my popcorn once Vespa shows up on screen

[halcyon merlin]

what

[silk dirge]

also it would be really funny for hornet to be like "oh yeah of my siblings im like the weakest" (depending on the ending her only alive siblings are shade lord and possibly pure vessel in the case of etv)

[keen raven]

pilgrims would start worshipping hornet and then they'd have their pilgrimage to hallownest instead of the citadel and hallownest would be restored
trust

[silk dirge]

i do think theres a difference between tk in dnm and regular shades

bc tk in dnm looks different from its shade

so its not "dead"

where all other siblings are

[keen raven]

I personally dont see respawning as canon

[silk dirge]

i mean yeah but shades are canon

as in like other dead siblings

[keen raven]

yeah but

with the knight it just feels like a gameplay mechanic to get stuff back

[silk dirge]

and they dont look like tk does in dnm

[upbeat fog]

I like how they expanded more on the hive in silksong it wasn’t that relevant in hollow knight

[midnight zinc]

Wyrm dna is overpowered

[keen raven]

my question is where tf the head shape came from

[silk dirge]

yeah i dont like 3q hate i think its a cool concept that couldve been done better

like vespa doesnt add a lot to red memory sure

[midnight zinc]

Herrah??

[silk dirge]

i think that interaction could be improved a lot

[keen raven]

oh shit i forgot she had that weird thing on her head

right

[silk dirge]

especially now that someones pointed out the similarities between the ending of phantom and the sequence in red memory

https://youtu.be/P0skGaw-nDY?si=pLvJ_8Bhnh_UwJO1&t=75
https://youtu.be/Un1-rPSfe3M?si=gi2ZFuj2YorXF0IM&t=177

[foggy fractal]

hype moments and aura...

[upbeat fog]

3q?

[silk dirge]

three queens

[halcyon merlin]

what aura and hype moment vespa has

[sinful nimbus]

3Q HATE MENTIONED 🗣️ 🦅 🔥 💯 🥶

Its not tuff its LAME

[upbeat fog]

I didn’t know that got any hate

[foggy fractal]

red memory training with Hornet 🥶

[sinful nimbus]

Y'know what would be tuff MORE HERRAH

[foggy fractal]

soooooooo tuff

[halcyon merlin]

talking training

🔥

[silk dirge]

wtf would she be saying lmao

i feel like more herrah defeats the purpose

of hornet not spending much time with herrah

[sinful nimbus]

Something tuff duh

"wtf would pk be saying in birthplace"

You literally just need to put in some more stuff about Hornet not being tied down by her weaver heritage blah blah blah also make first sinner the final boss

[upbeat fog]

Are you ok

[silk dirge]

i do want my hivesteel needle cnc mill cutscene

soul powered cnc mill

[sinful nimbus]

I am Kinglight! Kinglight of a Long Dead Monarch!...

[silk dirge]

its literally realistic weavers are cad

they cadded hornets needle

and then they sent it to the hive to be manufactured

did the hive measure twice cut once tho...

we will never know

[upbeat fog]

That makes sense have a good night

Or day

[sinful nimbus]

Thank you and god bless

[silk dirge]

anyways you know whats a really funny thing i found out this week

for some reason exploring the citadel reminds me of those fucking chernobyl sarcophagus videos

just like all the corridors and pipes you go through

idk

[ornate pier]

You're exploring an abandoned place so

[sinful nimbus]

I was thinking Rain World tbh

[ornate pier]

Close to abandoned anyways

[silk dirge]

yeah

[foggy fractal]

hello Kinglight! Kinglight of a Long Dead Monarch!...

[foggy fractal]

tuff !

[silk dirge]

anyways some of these videos are fucking crazy

ofc they were authorized to do that

[sinful nimbus]

Andy

[silk dirge]

but like idk its just crazy to me theyre actually exploring in there

[foggy fractal]

hi !

[craggy smelt]

vespa fight in red memory, sure
herrah fight in red memory, yes

[sinful nimbus]

See it would amke sense cuz uh

[craggy smelt]

don't worry about it

[sinful nimbus]

Herrah carried on GMS's oppression by making devouts worship her

[foggy fractal]

#noticing

[craggy smelt]

Herrah's still alive because ETV without dreamers is canon

she mentally connects with Hornet for a fight

thru dream space or wtv

[foggy fractal]

🤔

[silk dirge]

i think the vespa fight was supposed to fix the issue with hornets training style or whatever

bc she literally just uses hunter crest from what i can tell

but its cut so whatever

[craggy smelt]

is it cut
*or *
is it being held back for DLC...

[sinful nimbus]

One step forward two steps backwards

[silk dirge]

but i think its a good insight into what tc was thinking

[foggy fractal]

do we think we'll get like a blog post on christmas, new years or hk anni

[craggy smelt]

no

[foggy fractal]

https://tenor.com/view/walks-away-sad-leave-tom-and-jerry-gif-16877258

[sinful nimbus]

I took away TC's website until they finish sharpe

[foggy fractal]

fair

[edgy nebula]

cant wait for lion village

[hushed viper]

random SK lore but i just realised that the reason the cogwork dancers of all things is what guards the entrance of the core and also what guards the entryway to the cradle is cuz:

It's literally a warning, they guarded the place with cogwork clones of a person of high authority in another rivalling kingdom, they know whoever reaches that point is powerful so they show what happens to those who opposes the citadel

[limpid summit]

Not a bad observation

[graceful grail]

Is GMS native to Pharloom or did she move there from somewhere else??

I thought not since the now Bilewater and Sands of Karrak and Ants were more established at a time

[craggy smelt]

I don't think we know that - seems like she would have come to the kingdom from elsewhere, considering her eventual rise to power

Pale King came to Hallownest from elsewhere

who knows how it works with these god-freaks

[limpid summit]

They all gotta be born somewhere

I guess we're never given any indication either way

[craggy smelt]

higher beings are sometimes described as 'lights'

the Everbloom is called the 'first light'

if there's a connection, it would mean that beings of light came to exist after the first one

so yeah, it would follow that they are born somehow, beginning their existence rather than being eternal entities

[silk dirge]

i wouldnt be surprised if the story is like at first there was only void

and then first light appears or something

[limpid summit]

Yeah I think HBs have to be born

Someone like MM idk

But it would be weird for the entire species of Wyrms to have existed since the beginning of time

[dire lynx]

I cant remember where it is said, but she did arrive from beyond pharloom

[midnight zinc]

It’s never said she came from outside of Pharloom, just that she hasn’t always existed in that region

It’s possible she came into being in the Pharloom area

[stray fog]

We don't know the origin of any higher beings except the shade lord and weaver queen

I wish we did

[lime osprey]

there was some big bang like event in the HK universe that created all life and all pale higher beings / their power besides the void... maybe

[lime osprey]

and even those are just consolodated power from some ancient source, AKA the void and GMS

also the Shade Lord had existed in the past likely

[lime osprey]

I can see it honestly

[stray fog]

How

[lime osprey]

ancient bug statue refers to the knight as "Lord of Shades" upon retrieving Voidheart

also the conditions for both Lord of Shades and Shade Lord existence isn't specific to events of Hollow Knight, given the explanations: "Bounding void under ones will" and "Void given mind/focus" respectively

[stray fog]

I would like to believe that the lord of shades was prophecised or something, but that dialogue can be explained by the statue recognising the knight as the lord / king of all shades, because they can unite the void

Also, lemm says that the ancient civilization didn't worship any god

So if the shade lord existed and they knew about it, they didn't worship it, which doesn't make sense

[lime osprey]

could be prophesy, also void exists all over, so a lord of shades doesn't necessarily have to be localized entirely in Hallownest, could be they knew of the possibility of void being constrained by ones will, maybe they seen one that had since departed and left to be in the void mass as the knight has

also "void given focus" is definitely not something that is specific to the events of Hollow Knight

[stray fog]

I'll keep this as a headcanon

[lime osprey]

that's fair

though it is not headcannon to say void could be given focus through other means outside of a vessel with voidheart in godhome

[lime osprey]

meh, she has bony hips like weavers, likes of which arent seen too commonly in the HK world

[lime osprey]

the mask makers and Mr. Mushroom appear to have been gifted a specific sight that allows them a very special insight that not even Hornet or the vessels have

[hidden crater]

Prob because shes a half breed lol

[long warren]

pale king's genes too strong

[long warren]

all weavers other htan the originals made by gms are half breeds, and comparatively hornet does look a lot less like a weaver.

[dreamy onyx]

truth nuke

[long warren]

https://tenor.com/view/aaaaaaaaa-gif-18979345

what his hand doing

[dreamy onyx]

i think masks function like brains in some way? its complicated

[lone folio]

Waving

[lone folio]

Mask maker did not help...

[dreamy onyx]

but if they function like brains then the mask maker is literally creating brains so it makes sense he'd know a lot

[long warren]

i think mask maker is a stand in for tc

they literally create the masks (persona) of the bugs

[dreamy onyx]

masks are so confusing lwk

some bugs have them (the flowers in shellwood, the bugs in the lowlands, the weavers and pharlids) but then some don't

[long warren]

this is an official discord right

[dreamy onyx]

yeah

[visual glacier]

Yeah team cherry is in here

[long warren]

wonder why i never see them online

[visual glacier]

Cause they are busy probably

[dreamy onyx]

ion think the devs are here

[visual glacier]

Don’t use discord and also probably have a different time zone than you

[dreamy onyx]

aside from leth

[visual glacier]

They are

[stray fog]

Tc said they don't go online much

[dreamy onyx]

are masks exoskeletons

[long warren]

i assume they are

but theyre also bones i think

its fantasy bugs

[stray fog]

Probably

[long warren]

how long does the events of hk place

[stray fog]

Masks look bony

Most of the time

Except for godseekers

Their masks look metallic

[dreamy onyx]

i think these are also human sized bugs because of how they can swim in water

[long warren]

isnt it a literal mask tho?

[visual glacier]

Team cherry purposefully left it ambiguous for the metaphor

[long warren]

like a literal mask/helm?

[stray fog]

But that can be explained if those masks are external and not their natural masks

[dreamy onyx]

masks in general are confusing because im pretty sure hornet doesnt have anything under her mask but someone like widow does

[visual glacier]

Why assume that?

She probably does

[stray fog]

Yeah mask lore is cryptic

[dreamy onyx]

maybe the reason having your masks makes you go mad is because it literally exposes your brain

[stray fog]

🔥

[craggy smelt]

[tawny dirge]

I LOVE BILEWATER!!!

one of my favorite areas

in both lore and gameplay

[dreamy onyx]

i saw this post on reddit that theorised that the automatons in the cogwork core were based off of the bugs in the lowlands (far fields, deep docks, marrow, etc.)

i think they were onto something

[peak mauve]

just a little bit

[ionic basalt]

Bilewater is fun when you have double jump and crawline xd

[dreamy onyx]

i mean

[ionic basalt]

Ig they both shoot hot stuff

[dreamy onyx]

there were more examples but i cant find the post that purported the idea

[peak mauve]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/586931790208434203/1444952928786976789/fleapetting.webp

[tawny dirge]

yea and the part you can access in act 1 is short enough to not be annoying

[ionic basalt]

The mindless slasher?

[dreamy onyx]

yeah

[ionic basalt]

No the other one

Slash and charge

Cant think which enemy its based off

[dreamy onyx]

pharlids?

[visual glacier]

<@&283547423706447872>

[neat scroll]

mods have abandoned us...

[fading bolt]

<@&283547423706447872>

[neat scroll]

we need to make a sacrifice for the mods to return

[frosty gate]

The mods have left us

The mods of HK have abandoned me

https://tenor.com/view/god-of-war-guy-falling-gif-26391457

=help

[trail cedar]

Mods like pale court ? Or randomizer ? 😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣

[mighty parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/silksong-flea-awoo-absolute-cinema-absolute-awoo-gif-13929526023089152064

[celest marsh]

i was thinking about ts

[cursive mango]

i got a question

if silksong is a sequel, why doesn't hornet start the game with its skills already owned

things like silk spear, thread storm and clawline were already seen in hk, why did she lose them then

[bleak ridge]

Because TC doesn't like us

Gameplay reasons

Or wait no

The cage weakened her

As she mentioned multiple times

That's probably why she isn't broken as shit from the start

[cursive mango]

hmmmm

i thought of that but don't recall of her saying it

[bleak ridge]

I think she mentions it to the chapel maiden at the start? Let me check rq

[bleak ridge]

Unrelated but why does your name just have Euler's number randomly plopped into it

[cursive mango]

oohh yes that makes sense ty

[cursive mango]

not random, if u place e for that u get "belo"

[bleak ridge]

Interesting I suppose

[frosty gate]

Who said this shit? What a very specific interaction

Nuu?

Huntress?

[frigid belfry]

Looks like the chapel maid

[hollow grail]

somebody pls catch me up on the steel soul lore

[narrow horizon]

One of the first interactions in the whole game 💔

Hornet and Chapel Maid

[frosty gate]

It says "After first encounter if several conditions are not met" I can't remember if I had that or not

[narrow horizon]

it means talking to her again after her initially talking to you

It changes if you've reached certain progression points (i forget which ones change the dialogue)

[safe dock]

is it GMS who talks to hornet in the silk hearts cutscenes?
if so, why does she always talk with "us" pronouns?

[stray fog]

Because of her hivemind

[safe dock]

seems kinda weird honestly her saying "one to wish our waking" when she's the only one in slumber lol

[frosty gate]

Royal We perhaps?

[halcyon merlin]

lost hornet

[halcyon merlin]

but she isn't a hivemind

if you're talking about the haunting then like im pretty sure that's not a hivemind thing

[lethal burrow]

the royal we maybe?

[craggy smelt]

it binds the afflicted to her

...Their voices... Their song...
...Their memory...
...Bind their shells...
...Bind their souls...
...Bind them all...
...Raise them... Up...
...To devote... Eternal...
...One mind... One union...
...They are ours... Bound forever...

Pavo also mentions experiencing memories that weren't his own, so the haunted are also bound to each other

Oh, ahh. It is difficult... Upsetting even to think. Strange, sad memories, not my own, and my own thoughts smothered amidst the tangle.

[frigid belfry]

yak: gifted power kyda: pure effort

[halcyon merlin]

woah cadruk fan or whatever is his name

[halcyon merlin]

🤯

[craggy smelt]

blaow~!

[graceful grail]

Are there any more “Powers” that we know about??

[heavy gyro]

Lifeblood

[stray fog]

Steel

Light

Does song count?

[graceful grail]

So far?

[stray fog]

• song is required to sustain gms
• song is used to seal gms
• the needolin has dreamnail like powers
• song is used to open gates and access elevators
• to activate the snare at the end of act 2, you play a song

[safe dock]

sorry if its a dumb question but what is a Royal We?

[graceful grail]

Song seems to be linked to soul (therefore silk) to activate the snare

Marrissa from hollow knight could have been a force if thats true

[stray fog]

Do wishes count? (this might be a reach)

[graceful grail]

Nah

Unn?

[stray fog]

She isn't a primordial substance / force / whatever

Just some plant lady

[graceful grail]

Acid?

[halcyon merlin]

probably just a way monarchs in the past used to say "our" as we

¯_(ツ)_/¯

google it

[stray fog]

I dont think so

[halcyon merlin]

what about a natural kind of thing

[stray fog]

Not only everblooms, but pale things in general

[halcyon merlin]

or would you say Unn just uses soul

[graceful grail]

Pale as a species?

[stray fog]

Everbloom = "first light"
All other pale beings are other lights (maybe)

Also, paleness is connected to soul

And void and soul are opposing forces, if you want to mark that out as well

[halcyon merlin]

are they

[stray fog]

Void consumes soul

[frosty gate]

We're doing Pale Beings today I see

[halcyon merlin]

yeah

but it looks like predator vs prey

not opposing forces

[stray fog]

All Primordial forces

[graceful grail]

What about nature as a force? White lady, Nyleth, SSplinter,Greyroot

[halcyon merlin]

i mentioned it

grahhh

[frosty gate]

Hi Dhruv, why you ask me if I finished my Timeline btw?

[frosty gate]

Oh ok

[halcyon merlin]

also white lady and greyroot?

i dont think they count

[stray fog]

Everblooms destroy void
And if everbloom = light, then that means that the strongest light overpowers void

[stray fog]

No reason

[graceful grail]

White lady is so powerful godhome desires it so bad

[frosty gate]

Fair

[graceful grail]

What power does she have?

[stray fog]

Pale god

Ig

[graceful grail]

Pale isnt a power, its a status or species i think

[frosty gate]

She's a Pale Being of breeding, kind of, I guess that's cool

[halcyon merlin]

well tbh you do have a point

[frosty gate]

Godseeker more like Freakseeker

[stray fog]

The white lady's gimmick is that she grows a lot

[halcyon merlin]

radiance gets weakned before getting consumed by the void

[stray fog]

I think

[halcyon merlin]

and so does gms

so it just needs to be a very strong soul power to actually oppose the void

[frosty gate]

Those two case are kinda different, although GMS was already weakened when we got to her

[graceful grail]

Thats kuz hornet needs to pin her down to the snare

[stray fog]

The white lady says that everblooms are the only way to repel void

[halcyon merlin]

im just saying they are very strong

[halcyon merlin]

grahh

[frosty gate]

Which I want to agree, but that fucking Lighthouse makes no sense

[halcyon merlin]

so you're contradicting yourself

[stray fog]

Ig an everbloom destroys void with a form
The lighthouse just calms the tentacles down

[graceful grail]

We know things can resist void because of the silk orb you fight Lost Lace in

[stray fog]

Damnit

[stray fog]

Thats more like adding a blanket to reduce cold

[frosty gate]

It's not really resisting it, the Void is just consuming it very slowly because it's a lot of soul

[stray fog]

The blanket isn't generating heat, its just stopping cold from getting to you

[halcyon merlin]

and gms is replenishing it

[frosty gate]

Yes, but she can run out of it

[halcyon merlin]

yeah

[graceful grail]

PK could have worked with zemer to put some everbloom in the lightbugs in the tower. Or could have did it himself

[stray fog]

True

[frosty gate]

I guess its too valuable to just use it as a light bulb?

I hate that lighthouse so much after Silksong

[stray fog]

Does zemer canonically have a huge supply or is that just gameplay

I thought she grew them in her garden or something

[halcyon merlin]

well she should have

even though she says its a rare flower or something

[graceful grail]

She could insta grow them kuz they do at the grave

[frosty gate]

Do we even know if Zemer is fucking alive???

[stray fog]

During the lighthouse construction, yes

[frosty gate]

I mean, during the events of the game

[stray fog]

Why would she need to be alive during silksong though

[graceful grail]

We know that Brooding Mawkeck can make a mask shard like zemer so probably alive

[frosty gate]

Wtf, I mean Hollow Knight

[stray fog]

We see her during hollow knight

I think im misunderstanding what you're saying

[frosty gate]

You asked if she had a huge supply

[graceful grail]

If zemer was essence we would be able to tell

[frosty gate]

To which I asked if she's even alive in the first place

Because she's weird

She disappears into thin air

After doing her stupid mission

[stray fog]

If she had a bunch of everblooms growing in her garden, she could have given one to the pale king to use in the lighthouse

[frosty gate]

And she keeps popping endless flowers that are supposed to be rare

[graceful grail]

Maybe the light bugs are reflecting on an everbloom in the bulb

[frosty gate]

There's a point I start to think she's just some weird ghost

[stray fog]

Yeah why does she disappear

I never thought about it

[stray fog]

That too into a mask shard

[blissful harbor]

its just a mirror and lumaflies

[graceful grail]

Teleportation is a known ability mind you

Why she wont teleport to the grave idk, to sad?

[frosty gate]

NO ONE DOES, ZE MER IS TOO WEIRD

[frosty gate]

Yes, but this is not the case

Her last words is that "She can end"

She killed herself?

Was she ever alive in the first place?

Is her kind just weird bugs that half die

[blissful harbor]

or she just decided to dust
like seer, but weirder

[stray fog]

Her last wish

[stray fog]

I think so

[hardy inlet]

wait so lace was spun when the weavers left
but doesnt that mean gms made her while asleep?? or am i not getting smth

[stray fog]

She can just instant kill herself when she wants ig

[frosty gate]

The fact that she keeps referring to her Flower as rare makes me believe she's just pulling them out of her ass or something like

[stray fog]

Lmao

[frosty gate]

She can't have a garden of those back there

I've thought, maybe she has some weird dream powers like the snails or something

[frosty gate]

She's probably made at the start of the Haunting

She killed a shit ton of people in The Citadel

[hardy inlet]

and phantom?

[frosty gate]

Phan who?

[graceful grail]

Any other world powers??

[frosty gate]

Phantom is an enigma, really, all information about her is too vague and anywhere you put her in a Timeline makes little sense, because there's pretty much no info about her, despite being so important

Currently, my Timeline is being made under the assumption she's the first ever child, before the Weavers. Does it make sense? No, but little does with Phantom and so I go with rule of cool

[spring escarp]

Ok so, fhe surface cave thingie is the same as the one at the godseeker flashback scene, perhaps that is where this games godhome will be found?

[frigid belfry]

ehh mushroom isnt really a "power"

[spring escarp]

You are assuming the stell itself carries power and isn't just steel.

[frosty gate]

It's not the same, idk who made the video but it's just a theory and it might as well be a reused asset

[stray fog]

The steel masters are probably some sort of important force in the world

[spring escarp]

I would buy it with other devs but not team cherry

They don't just throw stuff in there

[frosty gate]

Oh they do

[spring escarp]

They do a lot of shit meticulously.

[frosty gate]

They're just very good at hiding the spaghetti on the wall

[stray fog]

I thought all surface locations had that rock type

[spring escarp]

Yes but not steel itself, probably.

[spring escarp]

It is not the rock

It is the geometry of the room too.

The crack in the wall

[frosty gate]

By the way, this is the last thing I made in the Timeline, haven't done anything after it, I'm wondering what comes next

[frigid belfry]

here it is for reference:

[graceful grail]

So is Pharloom close to Hallownest??

[frosty gate]

No

[graceful grail]

Ok..

[frigid belfry]

no, its just a theory

[graceful grail]

Oh, pharloom must be on the way from land of storms to hallownest though

[frosty gate]

We also don't know

We don't really know where LoS is

[frigid belfry]

not confirmed

[frosty gate]

Or how it looks

[frigid belfry]

los is likely on the surface, but we have no idea where it is

for all we know los could be at the city of steel

maybe los is blackwyrm

[frosty gate]

LoS is void

[graceful grail]

Guys, there are opposing forces for alot of stuf

PK and Black Wyrm

Nyleth and Sister Splinter

White Lady and Grey Root

Radiance and NKG (Dreams and Nightmares)

Everbloom and Void

Are there more??

[frigid belfry]

los is hornet

[zinc niche]

also i dont really understand the lore behind the everbloom

i mean ik that it originates from hallownest

[frigid belfry]

first is pure speculation, 2nd doesnt make much sense, 3rd, they are implied to be similar species but probably just one is pale the other isnt, not opposing, the second is somewhat supported, but radiance/everbloom vs void is more likely since the radiance calls unified void itself an "ANCIENT ENEMY"

[frigid belfry]

it doesnt

[zinc niche]

but where did it come before that?

how did it get to hallownest then

[frigid belfry]

originates from some place referred to as the "lands serene" where Ze'mer came from

[zinc niche]

aa

do we know anything else about that place though

[graceful grail]

Yeah, but the opposing forces is what im highlighting

[limpid summit]

I used to pray for times like this

[zinc niche]

i mean maybe i wouldve understood anything if i actually read ze'mers dialogue 😭 but does ze'mer mention anything about that place?

[frigid belfry]

ehh they arent really opposing

light v dark is the typical opposing trope

nyleth and ss dont fit

[frigid belfry]

yeah in her white flower dialogue

!wiki Ze'mer

bot do something

[heavy gyro]

Nyleth protected pilgrims, sister splinter attacked them

[limpid summit]

!wiki White Lady

[oak meadow]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Grey_Mourner

Hollow Knight Wiki

Grey Mourner

​ ​ ​ ​ For more information on Grey Mourner's quest, see Delicate Flower (Quest).
Grey Mourner is a Quest NPC in Hollow Knight. She is involved in the Delicate Flower quest, where she asks the Knight to deliver a Delicate Flower to her lover's grave in the Queen's Gardens.

Location

Resting Grounds

Gender

Female

Backer

Felyndiira

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/White_Lady

Hollow Knight Wiki

White Lady

The White Lady is a recurring NPC in Hollow Knight and Hollow Knight: Silksong. She gifts one half of the Kingsoul to the Knight in the Queen's Gardens.

Location

Queen's Gardens

Affiliations

Pale King (husband)
Vessels (children)
Hornet (stepdaughter)
Hallownest (queen)

Aliases

Lady (Hornet)
Pale mother (Godseeker)
Queen
Root

Gender

Female

Actor

Zara Pellen

[frigid belfry]

!wiki Grey Mourner

[oak meadow]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Grey_Mourner

Hollow Knight Wiki

Grey Mourner

​ ​ ​ ​ For more information on Grey Mourner's quest, see Delicate Flower (Quest).
Grey Mourner is a Quest NPC in Hollow Knight. She is involved in the Delicate Flower quest, where she asks the Knight to deliver a Delicate Flower to her lover's grave in the Queen's Gardens.

Location

Resting Grounds

Gender

Female

Backer

Felyndiira

[limpid summit]

That's WL's dialogue when you try to give her the flower

She talks about lands serene

[zinc niche]

i see

[limpid summit]

SS isnt really a parallel to nyleth

If anyone is it would be like

Greyroot

[sinful nimbus]

SS?

[zinc niche]

also a totally random question that just came in my head. thought it doesnt have to do with lore: what if u give the delicate flower to mato or elderbug. can u just get another one and deliver it to where ur supposed to or are u locked out of that mask shard?

[limpid summit]

Yes

You can get it from the grave

Or you can get it from her but she thinks you destroyed it

[zinc niche]

aa ok

thx

[hazy adder]

can skynx be connected to nosk?

[sinful nimbus]

That seems likely yeah

[hazy adder]

so their kin is the same?

[frosty gate]

We don't know, only similar trait is the upside down mask

[eternal gazelle]

That's not the only similarity

Skynx only speaks by recycling other bugs' speech, and mimicry is the thing that defines Nosk

Skynx is also one of vanishingly few bugs with no needolin dialogue, which is also the case for Nosk and the dreamnail

[stark quest]

You’re blowing my mind right now!

[frigid belfry]

its possible skynx is an uninfected version of nosks species

[frosty gate]

Holy shit a Mod

[foggy fractal]

hm ? where !

[past cypress]

There's a non-zero chance we get Skynx as a boss fight in godhome

[edgy nebula]

skynx is one of those npcs what we’ll never get anything for

i think

[stray grove]

I agree with the Skynx Nosk theory but this point specifically is very weak
Nosk isn’t a simple mimic, it is a psychic shapeshifter and that’s not what Skynx is doing. Skynx also isn’t actively hunting so while that makes sense it does make it so you can’t really use it as supporting evidence

[eternal gazelle]

I mean I don't even really believe conclusively that Skynx and Nosk are biologically the same kind of thing, just that they have parallels

[stray grove]

There are discrepancies but those can largely be handwaved by the fact that Nosk is infected and Skynx isn’t active

I agree with Skynx speaking with a “stolen voice” being an intended parallel

But yeah it’s not conclusive or anything

[craggy smelt]

interesting - Skynx does sing, though without dialogue (and apparently is mimicking muckroarch singing, that's cute)
Greyroot also sings without dialogue
I wonder if this is a trait of being un-haunted, or if they simply have minds too different to discern anything recognizable

[frosty gate]

I think its the latter

[craggy smelt]

that would match nicely with Nosk's dream nail dialogue yielding only '...'
even though they clealy have more going on than the average plant

[plain gazelle]

most characters we talk to are unhaunted and they have needolin dialogue so i don't think it's that

[edgy nebula]

a bit weird that skynx and greyroot are like that, since abyss enemies have … dialogue

greyroot and skynx literally have none

[plain gazelle]

i don't think there is any "..." needolin dialogue, all abyss enemies in silksong just don't respond

[cunning veldt]

the big one says that

garguantuam gloom i think so

[frosty gate]

Who

[cunning veldt]

!wiki Garguantuam gloom

oh i misspelled it

[frosty gate]

Thanks bot

[cunning veldt]

but its that big one that throws those eating enemies that fly to you

[frosty gate]

Oh that thing

[plain gazelle]

interesting i wonder why it's the exception out of the other abyss creatures

[cunning veldt]

idk

maybe cuz it has other enemies inside it

[craggy smelt]

apparently Gloom is the only enemy with any dialogue - weird
the other abyssal creatures don't respond, nor do Void-haunted enemies

[edgy nebula]

the abyss crawlers have …, i know that

unless im going crazy

i swore they did

[loud moon]

Bones and Shells are not the same thing in HK universe unlike real life ?
I mean irl insects shell is technically their bone, yet in HK, especially silksong, it looks like some bones are not from dead bugs and some even look like vertebrae.

[edgy nebula]

pretty sure text somewhere the bones are called the bones of deceased bugs or something along those lines

the flying skarr enemies also use the skulls of tarmites

[loud moon]

So it is possible that some bones that are big like the one making up background or giant vertebrae above lava came from something much larger ?

[edgy nebula]

it’s definitely implied yeah

[plain gazelle]

yeah i wouldn't assume bug anatomy in hk to have anything to do with bug anatomy in real life

[limpid summit]

I’m sure it’s the latter

Non haunted npcs do choose to sing too we even get mottled skarr translated

[edgy nebula]

aha, i found the text

[limpid summit]

I think for GR it’s analogous to like WL shrugging the DN off

[edgy nebula]

“Though surely fierce, the skull it bears looks taken from an even larger beast. If not for the bones as proof, I would scarcely beliece bugs could grow to such scale.”

bug bones

[limpid summit]

Hard

That’s how you do aura farming right

[loud moon]

So bugs in HK universe have both shell and bones ? Fascinating

[dense ridge]

Had to decipher this message

[limpid summit]

SS can’t happen in SS but SS would be good for SS

[dense ridge]

This one's beyond me

[limpid summit]

Same

[whole holly]

that's why only few can do it, it seems

[rotund pulsar]

I don't mean to demean the silksong wiki but why does it say teleport as part of widow's abilities?

Then again, my interpretation of teleport could be wrong and they are right

I'm just asking because it looked like she was crawling in and out

cuz you can see her scuttling in the air

[fresh badger]

Theres a Gruz Mother corpse in like Matos hut with vertebrae visible. Plus like mawlek corpses have ribs?

Some bugs just have bone