sk-lore

[past cypress]

Mantis Lords are still at their peak probably

[stark ocean]

hornet can just kill all 3 mantis lords 😎

[fervent sigil]

what about uninfected TL

[stark ocean]

they did nothing wrong 😢

[stray fog]

Probably equal to the mantis lords strength-wise

[past cypress]

Probably weaker than infected no?

[robust wagon]

Replace mantis lord with lord fool

[stray fog]

We don't know anything about lord fool but he looks cool as fuck

[past cypress]

Old Hearts are leaders of kingdoms that existed before the citadel

[stark ocean]

then unn might also be a old heart

[past cypress]

As such Hallownest would would 100% have Vespa and most likely one of the moths (probably Seer) and either the Deepnest king or Unn

[stark ocean]

deepnest had a king???

[past cypress]

Yes

[stark ocean]

like before herrah took over

[random harbor]

Lore Tablet: Fungal Wastes - Near Deepnest

This border bounds the twisting, scratching things.
Their dead sire, once of honoured caste.
Their sealed mother, but the common beast.
No peace with them we make.

@dhruv._19 used /lore-tablets area: Fungal Wastes name: Near Deepnest

[tardy musk]

guys is the pale king an wyrm with no big body?

[past cypress]

Herrah is the wife of the king

Or was

[past cypress]

Pale King had a wyrm form

The entirety of Kingdom's Edge is his grave basically

[tardy musk]

is there any other wyrm?

[past cypress]

The Cast-Off Shell is only a small part of him

[stray fog]

Probably

[past cypress]

White Defender dream nail mentions "Blackwyrm" but it's unclear if that's a place or a person

[tardy musk]

living*

[stray fog]

We haven't seen any other wyrms, but they exist

[stray fog]

That's unknown

[tardy musk]

then why is hornet not hlaf dealy worm?

[stray fog]

?

[tardy musk]

why does hornet have wyrm form

does not*

[stray fog]

She's only half wyrm

Not a pure wyrm

[tardy musk]

even if there should be a wyrm form

[stray fog]

None of the half wyrms we see have a wyrm body

The vessels dont

Hornet doesn't

[tardy musk]

hmmm k fine

then why is herra diff from other weavers?

[stark ocean]

a reddit post said she mightve evolved from the diving pharlids instead of regular ones

[stray fog]

There are some theories for this, but no definitive answer

[tardy musk]

how much is hornets body count(to know if shes a mlif)

[stark ocean]

hmm... maybe like 3-4

[stray fog]

The Weavers can't have children easily

So idk if she would have tried at all

[stark ocean]

actually... being romatically involve doesnt mean u have to do them so possibly none

[tardy musk]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[stark ocean]

but she does indeed mention 'mates'

in that one entry

[tardy musk]

i think she can mate

if there is a hole teher is goal

[stray fog]

This is the lore discussion of all time

[stark ocean]

holy hell

wait i think i did an unintentional pun

[stray fog]

Mossbag didn't die for this 🙏

Australian text

🔥

[bleak ridge]

Ancient Australian scriptures

[bleak ridge]

Could also be an event

[whole holly]

ay, mate

[bleak ridge]

There could be a definite answer but the most likely one is just that it's a retcon, only silksong confirms that herra is in fact a weaver

[whole holly]

Deepnest King, sad that there is no info about it

[bleak ridge]

Honestly true, it would be cool to know more about the so called "honoured caste" he was a part of

Yeah, that's what also makes me think more that herra being a weaver was a retcon

But the problem is what societal positions would deepnest even have before the weavers

But all weavers were outsiders, specifically calling herrah of a lower caste would in turn make all the other weavers of a lower caste and I doubt that since the weavers were some of the most intelligent creatures in deepnest

Honestly we just don't have enough info to go off of

Maybe I suppose

[stray fog]

Free money! Waowwww!
/j

More free money!!?
/j

[bleak ridge]

They stopped putting links now, smarter I suppose?

[stray fog]

https://tenor.com/view/moderators-gif-27480573

This day just keeps getting better

Even more free money!!!
/j

[bleak ridge]

Boy oh boy I'm gonna get so much free money, I'm feeling so whimsical

[robust wagon]

Holy fuck bro why have the mods not gotten rid of this yet

[robust wagon]

Omfllllll

[light mauve]

I don’t remember this happening in Silksong

[stray fog]

It happens in act 4

Kai cenat makes an appearance and gives you 250 rosaries for free

[spring merlin]

A beast’s nature bare to all

[whole holly]

it seems like accounts are hacked

[craggy smelt]

less funny but more rad

[heavy gyro]

rad? Say that again

[lean temple]

Yknow since the Everbloom is the "first light", would the Void be the "first dark", or is there an even older darkness? Considering the Void is called "liquid nothing" and "pure darkness".

[heavy gyro]

Team cherry presents: The neverbloom

[stray fog]

There are multiple lights (pale beings), but we never see multiple darks

[craggy smelt]

some paradoxical juxtaposition shit going on right there

the light is order, the dark is chaos
the light is a variety of different beings, the dark is undifferentiated black liquid

[lean temple]

Yeah that's true. Ig the Void has always been the same, although would the Lord of Shades be considered a different kind of dark?

[lean temple]

"Abyssal flower that grows only in the deepest, darkest depths, submerged under the sea of liquid nothing at the world's base.

Its vacuous aura consumes anything naive enough to come into its vicinity."

[craggy smelt]

'Repels the Pale'

[craggy smelt]

something new maybe - a Void entity that can unify the formerly discordant Void under a singular individual will

[stray fog]

This sounds like text that tc would write

[lean temple]

That's what being a HK fan* for so long does to a man lol

[frosty gate]

You are a Hollow Knight?

[craggy smelt]

it's you 🫵
you are a hollow knight

[lean temple]

Oops lol

[lean temple]

You are the Vessel
You are the Hollow Knight

[bleak ridge]

(he wasn't)

Ironic really

[hardy inlet]

how were the bellways formed

[hardy inlet]

did the shitadel just dig them

[frosty gate]

It seems so

[wintry compass]

this sounds like if maoist standard english were in pharloom

[charred bear]

I'm surprised this channel keeps quiet every so often

Also is there something interesting in the silksong relics?

[stray fog]

They tell us about eva

The citadel

And the ancient civilization

[limpid summit]

They tell us a few things

All that plus the weavers were revered as gods

Benevolent ones

Which might have been after their angry god reputation

[plain gazelle]

don't forget crucial wisp thicket lore

[whole holly]

yeah, they seem to resist haunting, it is most interesting part of Pharloom aside from Old Rulers

[viscid ridge]

Ive been pondering pharlooms folly. The beginibg where they mention frail and fine, reminds me a lot of phantom and lace saying how frail their existence is. It makes me wonder if GMS was also frail to some extent? Maybe thats what the weaver's song were used for, to keep her alive or something? Im not sure so any comments on it?

How do you mean? Like how they connect in terms of location or how their gods are connected?

[stray fog]

Can you send the poem here
The wiki doesn't have it yet

[unique canopy]

It does under the Pharloom page

[stray fog]

They're separate kingdoms

The connection comes from the Weavers who fled pharloom to go to hallownest

[unique canopy]

They see your beauty, so frail and fine,
They see your peace, woven of faith and toil,
They forget your heart, bound in slumber and servitude,
When you wake they shall see your truth,
A beast's nature bare to all.

• From 'Pharloom’s Folly' by the Conductor Romino

[stray fog]

I think its probably about gms being frail, not phantom or ace

[whole holly]

i thought it was about Grandmother Silk

[stray fog]

Because everything else is also about gms in this poem

[whole holly]

yeah, but it does apply to Phantom, Lace and Eva partially

GMS is beast lol

[stray fog]

It can be interpreted like that, but The intended meaning is likely to be about gms

There are many higher beings in hk

[whole holly]

why beast, some bugs are called beasts, like Herrah and many bugs across Pharloom and Hallownest, is it high caste thing or lower caste , or is it determined by strength?

[stray fog]

They traveled through the wasteland to reach hallownest

The shade lord

[stray fog]

I think its about them having primal instincts

[whole holly]

Shade Lord/Void Given Focus, the God of Gods

[spiral osprey]

I was wondering: in the scene before Lost Lace, Hornet talks to Lace herself, what do we think this is? Is it just Hornets interpretation of what Lace would say?

[whole holly]

yeah, but Mushroom Clan doesn't say it in good context

[stray fog]

The shade lord didn't create any bugs, but they are called "the god of gods" by the godseekers

[gleaming thorn]

Oh yeah I remember hornet saying if she stayed there for longer than a certain duration she will die or smth (when talking to the knight before going in)

[stray fog]

He gave sentience to some bugs in hallownest, if they didn't already have it

[whole holly]

there is not a God who created all bugs and world in Hollow Knight universe, at least not what we know of

pretty sure there are mods for that

Evolution i guess, Gods mostly use magical powers to create or alter life

[stray fog]

The origin of most higher beings is unknown. The earliest history of the pale king that we know of is that he was a wyrm

[whole holly]

i don't know

[stray fog]

The people in #1057825333841240104 can probably help you

A mythical serpentine dragon like creature

[viscid ridge]

Like wyrm, like the dragon, but in hollow knight context its the name of a god worm

[stray fog]

The corpse where you get the king's brand in hk is the pale king's original body

He transformed when he established his kingdom

[viscid ridge]

Thats probably future content, and its not directly related to the story.

[whole holly]

i don't know, i mean Knight is mostly good, but they are not strictly good or evil

[viscid ridge]

Probably bad

[whole holly]

elaborate

[stray fog]

The godhome ending shows the shade lord in a negative sense

They lash out violently

Complete pantheon 5

[viscid ridge]

Long term who knows what awful effects the shade lord can have, unless it just stays in abyss, but good in terms it got rid of the radiance

[whole holly]

yeah, i know, that is overall case, but we don't know why they target godseeker do we? is it void's nature

[stray fog]

The true ending is either embrace the void, or dream no more

[viscid ridge]

The dream no more is the most probable for being canon, but the endings are up to your interpretation

[stray fog]

The delicate flower ending might be true, but I personally don't believe it

[viscid ridge]

Where you kill the radiance, and save hallownest

[viscid ridge]

Agree

5*

[stray fog]

You should look up all endings on YouTube or on the wiki

[whole holly]

also now that we know about how Delicate Flower repels void, does Godseeker have any chance of being alive?

[stray fog]

I think it destroys all void given form

Not confirmed

[whole holly]

ok

[stray fog]

But I believe it

[whole holly]

guys i started steel heart run, i probably will die somewhere in act 2

i am under prepared for any boss pretty much , i am just replaying lost lace

[tight anchor]

How did the sands of karak dry up

[sinful nimbus]

Its not really clear but it seems like GMS and/or the Citadel caused it

[slow terrace]

Citadeal, Used its water as supply for the citadeal, Drying the land leaving nothing but sands and swarms.

Everything. Is made by GMS and the citadeal.

There is no feeling to hear.

There is no eye to see.

There is no silk to sing the song.

[frosty beacon]

global warming

this is a good image

[tight anchor]

https://tenor.com/view/fire-writing-gif-2088247993237804628

[slow terrace]

"yin and yang" ahh

[swift needle]

Since khann died didn't the rivers in the coral forge die too?

And by die I mean like dry up or something

[frosty beacon]

i don't think khann had power over the coral

[slow terrace]

The remnants of the bugs there have adapted to the Drying, As seen by their hard shell, and Yes the forge did die as well, when you go to the boss arena of khann, it is in its prime, That was before GMS

[frosty beacon]

he can control it

[slow terrace]

HE LITERALLY CONTROLLED IT

WHAT THE F

[frosty beacon]

yes but

that doesn't mean it stems from him

[slow terrace]

He is lterally called Crust Khann because he was one to command the crusts of karak, Same with nyleth how she would forge life with her seeds.

The citadeal nuteralized them due to his strong Army and rich recourses

If GMS let them thrive, While sure she would win. Would cause lots of heavy losses to the citadeal

[slow terrace]

https://tenor.com/view/miyabi-zenless-zone-zero-hoyoverse-nuh-uh-zzz-gif-13074252805747367964

[frosty beacon]

does it?

why would you let all the coral stem from one guy

[slow terrace]

I do believe it didnt stem from it, But he learned how to control it and used it to exapnd the already small pocket of Crust.

But another theaory is that he is a unfinisshed high being gms was trying to make but scapped, as seen by the scrapped statues in the exhaust organ

[frosty beacon]

is god tamer a skarr?

[whole holly]

guys are there cut crests in game

i really want Druid Crest in Game, or Defender's Crest

[blissful harbor]

she doesn’t look like one at all

she’s wearing ant inspired armor, but her body type and the fact it’s armor in the first place give it away

[frigid belfry]

Yeah 1

Some kind of pale crest

[whole holly]

yeah that's Hunter Crest i am pretty sure, but i hope we get crest like where we bind PK and get Monarch Crest, or Wyrm Crest

it would be mix of Hunter and Wanderer Crest so i don't fully see the point but still, interesting

[ornate pier]

I think she was stated to be a cockroach so definitely not

[whole holly]

if we unlock Steelheart Crest it would be incredible

[blissful harbor]

iirc, TC had a really old stream were they said she wasn’t a roach anymore
she was in the original lobster lancer concept

what she is now…who knows

[sinful nimbus]

🦞 🪦 😔 💔

[viscid ridge]

Theres a cut pale king crest (which was just original hunter) but i think having a Pale king crest would be cool

[foggy fractal]

I doubt godtamer is a skaar given her fingers

[silk dirge]

honestly probably this but i really like the mount fay theory bc it lines up perfectly on the map

[gray saffron]

did coral tower extend up to mount fay's grounds?

because the memory version of it was definitely too high

[silk dirge]

i feel like it actually would extend down bc we stand in the throne room

its also possible the memory version wasnt actually how it was structured in the real world and was just a representation of khann's army

[past cypress]

Coral Gorge definitely used to span the entirety of the left side of the map

Mount Fay, Sands of Karak, Blasted Steps and Wormways were once all Coral Gotge

Gorge*

Iirc

[pale narwhal]

i thought it was just karak and the steppes

[raw pollen]

from what i remember its said somewhere that khann's territory was half of pharloom, which makes me think it wouldve had to be more than that

[pale narwhal]

yes but that doesn't necessarily mean the biome did too

[raw pollen]

fair

[honest sun]

maybe when hornet binds gms and gets super up upgraded, her crest turns into a '''''''pale being'' crest like super powerful

[pale narwhal]

the wormways could arguably have been underwater caves but i highly doubt mount fay was ever part of the biome

[honest sun]

maybe its other kind of ant

[mighty kraken]

ok, i made it up to the last dive. does anyone know a good video that i can watch that has sections that will explain the games lore without spoiling the games ending.

[honest sun]

i have a question tho why gurr the outcast has like gray stains

[foggy fractal]

we don't know
though it seems like the other skarrs who are mottled, like gurr, aren't affected by the haunting
they're all also outcasts, presumably due to their mottledness

[vestal juniper]

i think its just a design decision. alternatively, it seems like all the other outcasts have similar stains. it could be that the outcasts are in a separate clan together, and the gray could be used to identify each other.
alternatively, it could also be the clan's way of "branding" outsiders of the hunt

(i prefer the latter but its not answered in game so we're left to speculate)

[viscid ridge]

One thing that has me completely stumpt, is who exactly built all these structures? (These pillars)

They can literally be found all across pharloom, so my first thought is that they are related to the citidel. I thought this hunch was proven correct when we see similar looking rocks and architecture used in the blasted steps and underworks.

But after noticing that these structures are in places that they realistically shouldn't be, like in verdania, in sands of karak and mount fay, im beginning to think these pillars and stone structures are related to some ancient civilization that we don't know of yet?

Cause idk what to make of it cause these sorts of rocks are used all around the citidels architecture, but its weird that it would be found in places like karak and verdania which predates the citidel

Thats why im so confused about who exactly made them?

[stone axle]

whats up with the lace apparition

is that actually lace talking to hornet from under the lake

[viscid ridge]

I think its something like the banshees in the mist that phantom makes

[stone axle]

then whos making the lace one

[wet shadow]

Lace

[plain gazelle]

yeah it definitely looks like the majority of the big caverns of pharloom are artificially carved and very old. i wonder if it has anything to do with the various giant skeletons we see all over the place

[wet shadow]

It's probably ancient civilization, you see a ton of the pillars in abyss too

[plain gazelle]

do you? i thought most of the big abyss rooms are just large caverns

[vestal juniper]

ohh yeah we actually have an explanation for this

it was me

sorry

[vestal juniper]

dude its so weird to me we still have no goddamn clue what these are about 😭😭😭

[plain gazelle]

i they're very similar to elden ring's big giant stone skeletons all over the place, just kind of indicative of big/ancient/mysterious things that have left basically no record

it is very funny to me that they turn one of the giant bug corpses into a whole set piece with sprintmaster and then tell us absolutely nothing other than sprintmaster saying "yo isn't this place cool"

[regal crow]

I’m more concerned who the hell designed that boss arena. Fuck em, whoever it is

[viscid ridge]

But not of this type of make is it?

[viscid ridge]

Maybe, but i think those big skeletons and fossils are just prehistoric bugs, we also see a ton of them in hallownest. But hornet also mentions that the skull skuttlers wear skulls of bugs she didn't believe could get so big so maybe they are related

[plain gazelle]

the skulls we see in the far field cave and at the shellwood/marrow connection are just small enough to plausibly be from some species that built the big caverns + pillars i think

do those show up in other places?

[lethal burrow]

They look nothing alike though

[lethal burrow]

but those do have an explanation, though those are the old gods.

Also, they're not stone

[plain gazelle]

old gods?

oh you mean elden ring

[lethal burrow]

yes

[wet shadow]

What about geology? The rock in shellwood isn't going to be the same in the abyss

[lethal burrow]

Well, evidently they have good enough shipping infrastructure or you're wrong

I doubt the rocks in verdania are the same as karak

But here we are

[wet shadow]

True I think I'm wrong and I'll keep my headcanons to myself

[plain gazelle]

tbf this is the place for headcanons

[wheat locust]

They could be natural formations, AC or even by the Citadel, it doesn't matter that Sands of Karak or Verdania predate the citadel, they could still make them in those areas

[plain gazelle]

well for nyleth and verdania, we're seeing the pillars in memory, e.g. before the citadel had conquered the area

[inner torrent]

The pillarlings

[frigid belfry]

isnt he mottled

mottled skarrs were described as being seen as "cursed"

[foggy fractal]

the question is more so how did these ants become mottled

[frigid belfry]

the way mottled skarrs were discriminated/kept out (we see 3 fulfill this) makes me think its some kind of mutation their clan dislikes

it doesnt strike me as something gained

[foggy fractal]

there's also them all being not haunted

[barren beacon]

What bugs are haunted and which aren't

[foggy fractal]

idk

for enemies you can tell by if theres silk when you hit them

or when those puppet strings flash for a second when they die

[fallow ridge]

chat i just realized that gms is called grandmother because that this is Herrah's mother and gms calls the Weavers her child and Herrah got hornet as her daughter so we are literally facing our grandmother

[minor belfry]

nope, she's Grand Mother Silk not Grandmother Silk

[fallow ridge]

fahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[fallow ridge]

sadly that is true

[robust wagon]

She is a grandmother tho

[wet shadow]

Not biologically

She transformed pharlids into weavers, then called them her children

[inner torrent]

That's basically abduction

[fast pilot]

That’s adoption

So yes

She is Hornet’s grand mother

[edgy nebula]

either by age, from birth, or a sickness

we can rule out the first two so that leaves it to be a sickness, atleast that's my theory

[foggy fractal]

could it be that they were the last children of Karmelita

[edgy nebula]

maybe, but gurr seems quite old

[fast pilot]

Why would they kill the last children of Karmelita?

[edgy nebula]

he also has a last claw which indicates he was alive during karmelita's prime

[foggy fractal]

if the mottledness stems from Karmelita growing weak and old it could be that the other skaars were haunted already

[ornate pier]

I don't think it's a sickness

I think it's a birth condition

The mottled skarr scout which gives the curvesickle has some needolin dialogue "Our mark is no curse" and it would be strange if it was a sickness then

[edgy nebula]

yeah that's fair, i dont think it happens at birth though

[ornate pier]

Why not?

[edgy nebula]

mottled skarr implies he knows karmelita through ndd iirc

[ornate pier]

What does that have to do with them being mottled tho

[edgy nebula]

we know the skarr dislike the curse, if it happens at birth and they get outcasted why would mottled skarr imply that

[ornate pier]

Could be that that discrimination wasn't a thing during karmelitas time?

[edgy nebula]

maybe but we dont really have any real evidence

[manic halo]

Silksong likes fluffies because of the bees from the hive

[limpid summit]

One of them

I think it’s the mottled scout?

Oh you already said it

Yeah its probably a random birthmark that they’re born with

Discrimination might have made the mottled ones hardier and more independent increasing their resistance to the haunting

[robust wagon]

Do you mean Hornet likes fluffies?

[manic halo]

Ya

[dire sinew]

who is karak

what is karak

[edgy nebula]

the area sands of karak, once home to the karak civilization

[dire sinew]

in crust king kaan civilization no one jumps for the beef

[edgy nebula]

we are cust king khann

we carry the flame

[dire sinew]

the no memeing rule has been entirely demolished

[foggy fractal]

no no its just that the mods aren't here trust

[hasty ginkgo]

if theres no mods lets talk about act 7

its probably my favorite

its there fault if they havent found it yet

[regal crow]

Most of these guys can’t get past Final Radiance in act 6

[muted lantern]

What ever happened to a weapon to surpass metal?

[foggy fractal]

🗣️ haunted

[half zenith]

Thoughts: What if we get a Lace DLC that lets us temporarily play as Lace, so we can go rescue Hornet from some antagonist or other -or even fight Hornet herself with whatever tools and crests you had equipped when you switched POVs

[edgy nebula]

feels like starpengu and powdered have kinda died yeah

do wonder what happened to em

[muted lantern]

Untimely death caused by a gif left in the chat, they knew the danger and that's why they fought so hard against it.

[muted lantern]

Stars still here isn't she?

[edgy nebula]

yeah but she never talks anymore

[foggy fractal]

no lore to talk about

[muted lantern]

Got bored of talking about act 3 and red memory ig

[foggy fractal]

😔

[muted lantern]

And also slabflies

[edgy nebula]

rest in peace

[half zenith]

Like. We fought Hornet when she was a midboss, what about fighting her as a player?

Wouldn’t it be fun to fight some of the wild crest+tool combos I’ve seen people create

[muted lantern]

A dlc where you play as the main rival? Something like this would surely come out in a reasonable time and not expand into a new game that takes 7 years. jokes aside it could be cool.

[limpid summit]

That would be tuff

Idk if HK is that sort of game

But it’s interesting conceptually

[half zenith]

The first attempt to do that failed because Hornet and The Knight had drastically different hitboxes and mobility skills

[edgy nebula]

"lace is to small for silksong so we're shifting our scope to a full game"

[half zenith]

Now, Lace and Hornet are mirror matches of each other in many ways

Hitbox and fighting style included

[muted lantern]

It could be cool, but I'm not sure if tc will take it that direction again, but it's totally possible.

Its unlikely we'll get a full game of lace, tho, due to statements made by tc about wanting a possible third game to be standalone and not require prior game knowledge

[edgy nebula]

i honestly hope we dont, her story isnt as compelling as hornets was

[half zenith]

I’m not talking about a full game

I’m talking about one quest chain

[limpid summit]

🗣️ 🗣️

I think hornet was a great throughline for dlc

Lowkey like I don’t really see any other characters from SS that could support their own spinoff

Maybe like

Seth?

[edgy nebula]

seth had his story closed kinda

[limpid summit]

Yeah true

[muted lantern]

She's neat, though it does feel like half the fandom completely does not understand the character. She's a lot more interesting outside of fanon imo, but not enough to justify a whole game

[limpid summit]

He’s enough of a blank slate

[unique tangle]

We still haven’t seen what happened to THK after the ending

[edgy nebula]

i feel like if we get a new character itd be in future pharloom or another new kingdom

[unique tangle]

I want Hollow Knight: Hollow Knight first

[edgy nebula]

ive seen a lifeblood fangame concept on tiktok, it seems quite cool

[unique tangle]

Before we start considering other characters

[limpid summit]

There’s no way in hell TC is scaling everything up to THK size

[muted lantern]

I want a fresh start, new kingdom

[half zenith]

Consider: A quest chain where Hornet gets captured by someone or other and Lace has to rescue her. And then at the end of the quest chain you have to fight Hornet with whatever crazy OP tool/crest combinations you had equipped

[muted lantern]

Play as an ant maybe, or a bee

[edgy nebula]

as a karakan 😼

[unique tangle]

Give them 14 years

[limpid summit]

DLC cope that Seth will get a companion fight like Cloth Shakra and Garmond

[unique tangle]

It’ll happen

[limpid summit]

Hornet and Seth vs Sharpe

[muted lantern]

Crust king khann city management game with beat em up sections

[edgy nebula]

no listen itd make sense

[half zenith]

Boop.

[edgy nebula]

we play as a karakan looking to expand karak via the sandsea wastes, facing various challenges and bosses

[half zenith]

If we get a new game I genuinely hope it’s THK

[hasty ginkgo]

boring

#zoteboatforlife

[half zenith]

The only main character of the siblings who hasn’t gotten their own game

[limpid summit]

Living this guys life

[edgy nebula]

yeah we play as garro sure

[limpid summit]

“Stand strong in the midst of a storm”

Garro escaped Karak after Khann fell asleep and they stole the water

[unique tangle]

Bro thinks he’s watcher at the edge

[edgy nebula]

real karak discussers know the water was never stolen

probably

[muted lantern]

Zote the mighty x Styx dating sim is the next game trust me

[edgy nebula]

future pharloom game where we play as skynx trust

[unique tangle]

It would be the perfect trinity

[limpid summit]

Asking for more Styx content is like asking for more Tuk content

[unique tangle]

THK deserves it after suffering for so long anyways

[limpid summit]

It’s happening we got Boon

[unique tangle]

Give the boy some freedom

[limpid summit]

It only has 1 arm

It gets an ancient civilization powered arm

Tears of the knight

[half zenith]

(Okay a good chunk of my desire for lace dlc is narratively driven. Because imagine what Hornet looks like from an outsider’s POV!! Imagine what Lace is thinking! Imagine having to battle Hornet with all her crazy OP combos and tools, while knowing she’ll go down in a few hits if only you could hit her and stop her from healing. oh and the angst of whatever situation results in Lace having to fight Hornet to resolve the questline)

[edgy nebula]

make it a third weaver fight that uses the widow theme with advanced aoe mechanics

[limpid summit]

Imagine they walk up out to the wastes and the wind is so strong that she unravels on the spot

Goodbye lace

[unique tangle]

Idk if a lace game is the way to go, ran a small poll the other day and most people said they would’ve rather saved lost garmond than lost lace

[muted lantern]

I'm still seething about totk lol

[edgy nebula]

oh yeah lace cant magically heal either

[limpid summit]

TRUE

[unique tangle]

Maybe a garmond game is the way to go

[half zenith]

Not a game. A dlc quest line

[edgy nebula]

make a covetous pilgrim game

[muted lantern]

I mean, maybe she has a set amount of silk spools that she carries with her, that recharge only at benches, like 3 reserve binds.

[edgy nebula]

maybe that's why her legs are like that

[limpid summit]

WE would rather save kratt

[edgy nebula]

her pockets are full of silk spools

[ornate pier]

That would just be silksong from his perspective brah

Unless it's like garmond during weaverqueen ending

[unique tangle]

It’s what the people want

[ornate pier]

Or twisted child

[ornate pier]

But it's almost impossible!!!

Why did garmond have to die 💔

[unique tangle]

All they have to do is make a dlc where Hornet acquires the Void-sucker tool and sucks all the void out of garmond

[muted lantern]

Factorio style game where you play as pale king and have to optimize your infant mulcher

[unique tangle]

So he can live and be free and jolly

And get his own game

[ornate pier]

Playing as two characters at once could have been so interesting

[limpid summit]

Has TC saved someone in dlc yet

[half zenith]

No

[unique tangle]

THK

[edgy nebula]

wdym?

[limpid summit]

None of the dlcs had an option to save anyone really did they

[edgy nebula]

oh

[atomic widget]

City Skylines but hollow knight

[unique tangle]

THK dying or not depends on Godmaster

[limpid summit]

Trapping it in its broken shell instead of allowing it to pass on 💔

I said saved not doomed

[edgy nebula]

i wonder how tc will implement lion village, sharpe, and the two dungeons, since theyve confirmed theyre on the backburner in an interview

[blazing sundial]

my first play through I thought they were related somehow because they have similar color schemes

[limpid summit]

Happy couple is base game right

[limpid summit]

That interview actually made me discover village of lions

Idk

[unique tangle]

Hey it’s still probably got a lot of stuff it can do even with one arm

[edgy nebula]

Full of lions

[half zenith]

ANYWAY. Regarding a THK game. I think it would work best as a game that had very clear directives and a very clear “correct” path given to you by external sources. And getting the good end requires you to exert your own will and go off the main path to do the optional game content

[unique tangle]

Are we saying paraplegics can’t live happy fulfilling lives?

[limpid summit]

Imagine making a 1000 year old paraplegic immortal

[limpid summit]

Maybe we’ll join King Gurr and the Mottled Skarrscout in fighting off antlions

[ornate pier]

Village of lions should have antlions!

[limpid summit]

From the village of antlions

YES

[ornate pier]

Which behave like lions

Craws kinda thing

[edgy nebula]

just wait, itll be coral gorge dlc and itll be a lionfish village

on my soul

[limpid summit]

We already have giraffelike giraffe stags

[ornate pier]

Coral gorge is dead in a ditch PHARLOOM BAY is happening

[half zenith]

Like. THK needs to learn how to be a person with a will, post canon, right?

[limpid summit]

Anyway Sharpe is going to be peak

Everyone who doubted TC writing (me) will be floored

[edgy nebula]

i wonder what sharpe

[limpid summit]

Best antagonist ever

[edgy nebula]

's voice will be like

[limpid summit]

I also do wonder

What if he has like a nerd voice

[unique tangle]

I still wonder who backed a game about bugs and thought “ah yes my bug ocs will be lions actually”

[edgy nebula]

ive thought of a nasally voice but i dont think thatd fit him, and that's just copying tiso

[ornate pier]

Random prediction: From Zi's dialogue, assuming the City of Steel will be a citadel-like location with distinguished subareas, I think we will see the Birth Spire or Growstone Spire as a dedicated area within the city

[muted lantern]

Honestly on account of there being orange antlions my money's on lion village being where shakras from.

[lean temple]

Idk if I shared this here before or not, but yknow how the citadel/GMS calls Hallownest by what it is (Kingdom of the White Wyrm) rather than by what it calls itself (Hallownest), so maybe the other locations are also just Citadel names, and they name themselves differently. For example maybe the Steel society calls the City of Steel something different?

[edgy nebula]

were orange antlions ever described

[muted lantern]

Antlions, probably

[edgy nebula]

what if the city of steel is actually called the birthspear

[muted lantern]

I mean irl

[edgy nebula]

antlions are tan, no?

[ornate pier]

Look at my theorie!!!

[limpid summit]

I didn’t think about this

[ornate pier]

I swear guys it's worthwhile!!!

[limpid summit]

Especially since Citadel decrees are very descriptive

[muted lantern]

There are orange antlions,

[limpid summit]

CoS is probably a proper noun then

Sharpesville

[edgy nebula]

oh, so there is

[muted lantern]

They have the same long orange tail as shakra

[limpid summit]

I think if the city is actually where the servants are from then you’re right

[ornate pier]

Adult antlions have wings and stuff tho

But I mean we've seen wingless bees so

[muted lantern]

Vespa is a bee with no wings yeah

[lean temple]

It could also be [Proper noun], the City of Steel, With CoS as a descriptor

[edgy nebula]

get this lame adult antlion outta here, we only want the cool larvae

[half zenith]

The good end to a THK game might require that THK deliberately refuse a request/order, prioritize their own happiness sometimes, and make their own choices about what they want to do. Translated to player character gameplay as making the good end require defying your usual gamer instincts with doing everything as the game directs you to -leaving quests ignored or unfinished, secret backdoor ways to solving a quest, going off the path to do things not related to the main quest, etc etc

[limpid summit]

Why couldn’t that backer have done a village of hornets

[ornate pier]

Yeah this is also making that assumption, but it feels like a given because mentioning Steel in the name is very significant

[limpid summit]

Imagine Hornet meeting a tribe of actual hornets

[edgy nebula]

and they all say shaw

[limpid summit]

Ok ok

Real talk

[ornate pier]

What if Shaw is a bee thing

[limpid summit]

On the topic of that message

[ornate pier]

What if it's like hornet trying to say buzzahhh or sum shit

[muted lantern]

Also, orange antlions are from australia

[limpid summit]

Edino Shaw GitGud do we think Hornet will have fanservice voicelines at key points in the dlc

I doubt TC has overlooked at least the latter two

[edgy nebula]

honestly? i dont think so

[limpid summit]

They know people love them

[muted lantern]

Hornet stopped saying shaw after taking sensitivity training, she will no longer say such violent slurs

[ornate pier]

Shaw is actually a slur used by bees

The bees taught it to hornet

[lean temple]

It's interesting how the Masters are now a proper noun (capitalised M). Might mean they will have a larger role to play

[muted lantern]

Its used by many bugs, including some in sinners road

[limpid summit]

Lord I wish

[ornate pier]

I can imagine the stilkin saying slurs yeah

[limpid summit]

More steel lore makes me happy

[muted lantern]

Zote is one of the steel masters

He's also greyroots son

Clearly

[edgy nebula]

ooohhhh lord on high please dont let the masters be void-controlling, void, or do anything with void

make them cool

[limpid summit]

They won’t be void don’t worry

[lean temple]

Same

[limpid summit]

They’ll be Wyrm AC Shaman

[lean temple]

That's likely imo tbh

[muted lantern]

I mean, aren't they compared directly to the void heart by jin?

[ornate pier]

If city of steel is related to the steel hearts and was to tie into steel soul mode how would that work, cuz I don't think entirely locking it to the mode would be a good idea

[muted lantern]

Plus like, Sharpe looks kinda voidy

[edgy nebula]

that's her relating the new ability of tk to control the void with the master's ability to control the steelhearts and the people under them

[ornate pier]

Zi shunned sula for summoning void so like

Probably not

[limpid summit]

Jinn compares TK’s “completeness” to her masters

[edgy nebula]

sula directly controlled void which was the confirmation

[limpid summit]

Plausibly you could have said she was referring to void in some way but you also could just be talking about that

Now though

[ornate pier]

Maybe we could see vassal enemies that use void in their attacks and that's it?

[limpid summit]

I don’t know

[ornate pier]

I dunno

[limpid summit]

Everything had to be void

[ornate pier]

Using void seems to be disliked by the steel hearts

[muted lantern]

Sula summons void to protect from steel masters though, no? Why summon a force that's so easily controlled by them

[lean temple]

I think it needs special permission, which Sula didn't get

[ornate pier]

Maybe

[lean temple]

I mean ofc this mysterious, pervasive faction will have ties to the alpowerful substance that's ever present in the world

[limpid summit]

Sula doesn’t have a job (?) like Jiji does

[ornate pier]

Vassals as enemies seems really cool to me for some reason

[limpid summit]

We don’t know if Jiji is like renegade or something but Jinn calls her a friend

[lean temple]

Yes. They seem to be still inexperienced

[edgy nebula]

well jiji probably isnt canon, and she summons regrets, not the void

[limpid summit]

I guess she doesn’t derisively refer to the masters

She canonically exists

And she doesn’t summon void for us

[lean temple]

Hornet met her

[ornate pier]

Ellina encountered jiji in wanders journal, I just learned this today

[limpid summit]

But if Sula can do it why can’t she

[ornate pier]

And she also encounters jinn

And tuk

It's fucked

[edgy nebula]

we see regrets in hornet's cocoon too, which does imply regrets are something different... unless.. of course...

hornet is void

[limpid summit]

Does Ellina talk about the shade gates

[ornate pier]

It lowkey sucks I can't find much info about what type of stuff is in the book

The wiki page says nothing about it

[edgy nebula]

yeah i forgot 😔

[ornate pier]

I don't think I can get the book myself

[ornate pier]

Regrets and void are deeply linked though, are they not

Or at least implied

[limpid summit]

Yeah but like more as a metaphor

[edgy nebula]

it is implied but she could also be referring to tk's regret specifically, which IS shade

[limpid summit]

It is built up as our personal regrets but it truly represents the “regret and refuse” of Hallownest and PK

[edgy nebula]

i do feel like regrets are something different and jiji is using some type of loophole to summon tk's shade without getting in trouble

since hornet does call her scurrilous and scheming iirc

or maybe im just crazy, idk

[limpid summit]

Maybe

Hmm

Lowkey we have no way of knowing what she really does

I feel like Hornet would react more urgently if she knew Sula might be summoning void as she speaks

[unique tangle]

Maybe jiji is onto something and there’s a canonical reason as to why HK is less saturated than SS

She says the land is stained darker after regrets building up or something along those lines

Regrets meaning void in her terms

And what happens to Pharloom after Hornet unleashes the void onto the land? It becomes darker and less saturated

The “void quakes” specifically apply a desaturation effect over the screen whenever they occur too

[limpid summit]

Wait mola

As long as you’re here

Is there some kind of copyright thing about quoting WJ

[unique tangle]

For your own terms? No. For the wiki? Yeah

[limpid summit]

Hmm

Maybe

[unique tangle]

It’s still a product that people pay for, just putting its pages and quotes throughout the wiki feels like piracy

[limpid summit]

Does lost verdania quake

[unique tangle]

No

It’s a memory

[limpid summit]

Oh wait nah

I meant regular verdania

Are there any areas that don’t quake

[unique tangle]

I haven’t checked specifically but I don’t believe so

P sure the quakes are universal

Save for the memories

[unique tangle]

I think it might be a decent explanation for that line cause unless jiji is seeing or sensing something that we just can’t see at all then what else does she mean

[ornate pier]

Most wiki's Ive seen of franchises with databooks go pretty in depth without problems

I don't think it's a problem unless you literally post straight up pages

[unique tangle]

We treat it as you would citations for essays

[limpid summit]

How long I must have slept. This land is so much darker now, so thick with the stains of regret.
Even the air is murkier. If I sleep again, will the darkness creep in here and swallow me whole?

I sort of feel like she’s being metaphorical here

Like we don’t have a true area still to compare them

But that’s gotta be art direction

The void isn’t anywhere near as far reaching

[unique tangle]

I still don’t get what sort of metaphor she’s going for if it is one

Regrets for jiji aren’t just metaphors, regret is the void

[limpid summit]

She’s got world sense

“The sight” like a mask maker

She can see the regrets

[unique tangle]

I agree with that

That’s the explanation I’ve always come to

[limpid summit]

No yeah

[unique tangle]

And I think it’s fine to settle there that jiji is seeing the void in a way that we cannot see it

[limpid summit]

I just wouldn’t go as far as to say the murky HK colors are void related

Oh wait you literally never said that

💔💔💔

It’s late

What normalish NPCs react to VH besides Jiji Jinn Bardoon

I wonder if we can see who has “the sight” in HK

Is it just WL and Hornet

[unique tangle]

I uh maybe think that is what I’m saying?

[limpid summit]

Oh

In that case idk I feel like it’s non diegetic

[unique tangle]

I’m arguing that HK as a game being more desaturated is cause of the void which is pointed out by jiji who can recognize the voids effects

[limpid summit]

I think more foreigners would take notice

In a meta sense it’s a more regretful game so it has duller colors

I suppose

[unique tangle]

Cause for some reason TC made the active decision to crank up SS’s saturation filter even when it’s not actually that saturated as evidenced by the older screenshots

And then happened to in the same game

Introduce a void filter corruption effect

Which desaturates the land and enemies the void touches

[unique tangle]

Definitely so there is a gameplay reason for it, I just wonder if it can’t be diegetic given what TC has introduced in SS

[limpid summit]

Hmm

[unique tangle]

Is the void quakes desaturating the world diegetic or not?

[limpid summit]

It probably is yes

But that’s cause there’s literal void everywhere

[unique tangle]

Then it could be applied to HK

[atomic widget]

Quakes of loneliness and dispair

[limpid summit]

HK doesn’t have void spewing out the cracks

[unique tangle]

Where the entire game is less saturated

And Jiji happens to call the kingdom darker and stained by regrets (void)

[limpid summit]

Maybe ancient basin used to be lighter

But like even the Pharloom Abyss is lighter

[unique tangle]

Yeah but why couldn’t it mean something like that? Jiji says the void is in the air making it thick

Void being basically a mist in the air everywhere

Creating a filter which darkens the world and creates the desaturation effect

[limpid summit]

I don’t think void is literally everywhere in the air

Regrets are a common theme in HK without void

Elder “I hate dreams” bug talking about forgotten crossroads

[unique tangle]

That is what jiji says

The air is murkier because of the void

[limpid summit]

The air is murkier because of the regrets of the kingdom

[ornate pier]

Doesn't the abyss make hornet as desaturated as in hk

In silksong

[limpid summit]

I think if there was literally trace amounts of void in the air someone else would mention it

[unique tangle]

Regrets of the kingdom
Regrets circling back to void

[honest sun]

Wait so gms is a pale being???

[unique tangle]

I think it would be undetectable to any random bug

[limpid summit]

Yep

[limpid summit]

Yeah but like WL Hornet even Bardoon

[honest sun]

Or maybe bugs are dumb asf and dont know what is that its like cosmic horror they dont get it

[unique tangle]

Wait I think there’s more proof of this in HK itself

Ancient basin applies its own further desaturation effect

[limpid summit]

Yeah that’s what I said

The areas with proximity to void sure

Dirtmouth nah

The void isn’t activated like that

[unique tangle]

I think that’s splitting hairs here so let’s break it down, jiji says the void is in the air making it making and causing the kingdom to look darker

[honest sun]

Was it there any void-consumed/Lost vessel/void filled vessel in HK apart from tk?

[unique tangle]

Passive effects of the void include a desaturation effect that applies to the land

Whenever void has a presence in the world

SS show this more intensely by having waves of extra desaturated effects along with the darker and less saturated world in general

I dont think there needs to be some active void lashing out for the world to be darker and less saturated just passive void being in the air desaturates the land slightly

As seen in ancient basin

[honest sun]

I have a theory where void its just oil and thats why bugs die when touched by it or start acting crazy because its toxic

[unique tangle]

And we know the void can just passively drift about the air we see its particles floating about harmlessly constantly in many locations

So a fine void mist or gas even hanging over hallownest would be the exact definition of what Jiji is describing and also provide a diegetic explanation for why HK is less saturated for some reason compared to SS

[stone axle]

this is some deep lore i havent encountered yet

[muted lantern]

first sinner battle

[stone axle]

i did that tho

[heavy gyro]

It's the cutscene after the battle

It shows a pharlid being ascended to a weaver

[muted lantern]

https://youtu.be/a_vKOsl1GyA heres the cutscene, id give it a rewatch.

[dreamy onyx]

Does anybody else wonder if there's any lore relevance to a majority of Pharlids in Silksong being located in Blasted Steps

[craggy smelt]

i wondered if that might be the region that Silk first arrived at in Pharloom

[dreamy onyx]

If she came in through the wasteland it makes sense

[muted lantern]

blasted steps is one of the closest regions to the edge of the kingdom, and pharlids are most populated around the fringes. possibly pharlids within pharloom were all converted into weavers, and now new ones from outside are moving back into the region.

or perhaps weavers hunted the pharlids to extinction so they could not be studied and people couldnt find the connection and learn the weavers origin which would challenge their divinity

[terse warren]

That's a nice theory always love me some Weaver slander

It might also just be that GMS turned the Pharlids closest to her location into Weavers and just didn't care for the others

[fickle violet]

a game theory

[celest geyser]

Who's the father of the bell beast babies?

[stray fog]

The pilgrims ain't smart enough to do allat

[stray fog]

Another bell beast that we don't get to see

[lean temple]

Bit late but since neither of them mention the Masters' wrath, that means most likely the Masters accept whatever it is these two are doing in Hallownest, and likely whatever they're doing is the task they were assigned to, as in they're not disobeying or doing something they weren't supposed to.

[wise sand]

Art style thing

[viscid ridge]

Im not saying he is, but why does the hunter look suspiciously like a weaver 🤨

[ruby surge]

that's what i realized recently too

[fresh badger]

🥀 yall forgetting his massive HANDS

And lack of multiple lower legs

[ruby surge]

yeah i realized that shortly after

[fresh badger]

I think its more amusing that since Hunter is a traveller, he probably brings all those teeth leading to his hidey hole around to various kingdoms he stops at

Like those teeth are not natural and theres no way he roams around for years looking for a spot filled with teeth like the ones he uses

[terse warren]

He kinda doesn't

Also he's

A he

[stray fog]

@frosty gate did you complete the timeline

Of skong

[frosty gate]

Not really, it's a thing I do when I'm really bored, plus I'm only doing the Citadel's timeline, why tho?

Also I saw Mola chatted ealier and I missed it hi mola

[neon silo]

I’m kinda reposting here, but I didn’t know there was an SK lore channel so:

The other day I was playing Silksong, and my dad heard Fleamaster Mooshka’s voice lines, and thought he was speaking Russian. I also have always had a head cannon that Vog is Russian for some reason. My new theory to present to you is that the FLEAS ARE FROM RUSSIA!

Don’t ask for evidence, because this is it:

• Vog kinda sounds Russian
• Fleamaster Mooshka’s voice lines sound Russian
• Fleas are furry, and therefore could survive in the cold of Russia.

[crystal vapor]

Sandcarvers look so similar to the Wyrm shell I feel they have to be related. If Pale Beings tend to create sentient beings from savage ones, then maybe these are the savage beings that Wyrms before the Pale King may have turned into sentient ones? The Pharlid to the Wyrm civilizations perhaps?

It seems like Pale Beings tend to, but not always give sentience and a greater form to creatures that resemble themselves. A sort of Christian themed “created us in their own image” type beat.

Maybe the Pale King didn’t do this because other Wyrm civilizations that did this failed, and this was a way to make his civilization different?

[limpid summit]

The savage beings were probably just all the bugs who aren’t separate from PK

The husks the flukes etc

He doesn’t transform them physically he just “expanded their minds”

[terse warren]

Is this the new Cornifer is Hungarian theory

[crystal vapor]

I know that’s why I said he’s unique

[terse warren]

We've seen 2 out of 3 Pale Beings do that, and even then they did it completely diffently

[crystal vapor]

But I’m thinking about all the other wyrms

[crystal vapor]

Well we don’t see it but I presume that Radiance did something similar to GMS

[terse warren]

PK expended the minds of bugs that already had some semblance of consciousness, not just anyone

[terse warren]

Radiance is not Pale

[crystal vapor]

What

Really?

[terse warren]

Radiance is not a Pale Being, no

[crystal vapor]

Do you have some reason for thinking this I just overlooked

I thought the fact she could only be defeated by the void screamed pale being

[terse warren]

List of Pale Beings:

• Pale King
• White Lady
• Grand Mother Silk

[stray fog]

Lace
Pale stag

[terse warren]

She is never stated to be pale ever

[crystal vapor]

And she’s white

[crystal vapor]

Yeah

But she is white and is defeated singularily by the void

[terse warren]

And hornet and the vessels and also Pale Stag is just a maybe

[crystal vapor]

The void consumes everything sure

But why not kill her in some other way?

[terse warren]

She's a higher being

We haven't seen higher beings die in any way other than Void

Well PK died from grief/killed himself but wtv

[stray fog]

Hornet absorbed gms

In the base ending

[terse warren]

Binding is not death

[crystal vapor]

Is Vespa a higher being?

[terse warren]

No

[terse warren]

Eva says this

[crystal vapor]

Doesn’t Vespa stop the Radiance tho and centre around a hive mind?

[stray fog]

Oh

[crystal vapor]

Like who gave Hive Knight sentience if not Vespa?

Was that the Pale King

[terse warren]

?? The hive is very much infected

[crystal vapor]

Not when Vespa was alive

[terse warren]

You don't need PK to give you sentience to be sentient

[stray fog]

Vespa is probably his mother because she's a queen bee

[crystal vapor]

Its Vespas death, not by the void that caused this no?

[crystal vapor]

But why is Hive Knight sentient tho?

Like why is he not a savage beast?

[terse warren]

Source: Mantises, Mushrooms, Mosskin, Hive, list goes on

[crystal vapor]

He can use tools

[stray fog]

Not every bug in hallownest was non sapient before the pale king

[terse warren]

Because you don't need PK's beacon to be sentient

[crystal vapor]

I know but some higher being is needed

[terse warren]

No

[crystal vapor]

They don’t seem to be wearing masks

[plain gazelle]

there's definitely a tier of Powerful bugs that aren't pale beings, none of the old hearts are pale for instance but they're definitely more powerful than the average bug. Vespa is probably around that level

[crystal vapor]

If so they are very unique fluffy masks

[terse warren]

I think the Old Hearts are actually just goated

[crystal vapor]

Not the traditional white ones we see pretty much everywhere else

[terse warren]

It's not that they're strong cause they're important, they're important because they're strong

[crystal vapor]

Karmelita seems higher being esc

[terse warren]

She is not

They're just very talented and skilled

[crystal vapor]

Her song is able to allow resistance to the haunting

And the ants wear their masks very oddly

More like helmets instead of over their eyes

[foggy fractal]

karmelita's singing was so good it resisted the haunting for the skarrs
maybe she is the goat

[stray fog]

I thought those were trophies

[crystal vapor]

And the one skarr does not have any mask

[stray fog]

Skulls of people they've killed

[plain gazelle]

the whole old hearts thing kind of implies that just being the leader/focal point of a civilization manifests that power of the people within you, which kind of retroactively makes Vespa make more sense

[crystal vapor]

If that’s the case it’s even weirder

[terse warren]

Aside from that line being ambiguous, high willpower has shown to make people resistant to the Haunting. The implication is that her song motivated the Skarr to fight back

[crystal vapor]

How they’re sentient

[crystal vapor]

How do you think they are sentient then?

Who is responsible in your opinion

[terse warren]

You don't need masks to be sentient

[crystal vapor]

Or higher beings?

[terse warren]

Mask maker is very much sentient even when you take their masks off

[crystal vapor]

Cuz they don’t have either according to you

[crystal vapor]

True

[foggy fractal]

I mean yeah ? bugs can just be sentient

[crystal vapor]

This seems like super odd to me

Like why

[foggy fractal]

why not ?

[crystal vapor]

Why make bugs sentient from savagery

And why is Hallownest unique in any way

[plain gazelle]

hallownest clearly isn't unique

[crystal vapor]

It seems it’s supposed to be unique for its sentience

And yet if bugs can just be sentient without a higher being or masks

What’s the point of this gift

[terse warren]

Hallownet is unique but that's not why

[stray fog]

The pale king gave sentience to those bugs in hallownest who were not already sentient

Everyone else can be sentient independent of the pale king

[honest sun]

do bugs even feel pain

[crystal vapor]

Then why is that advertised in Kings Pass or whatevs

[plain gazelle]

pale king dropped a propaganda poster at the entrance to his kingdom, that doesn't mean what it says is gospel

[crystal vapor]

Pain isn’t sentience

Plants feel pain

[terse warren]

Hallownest is unique because it can give sentience to bugs that are almost sentient

Like the guy from the Quirrel comic

[crystal vapor]

Sentience is more like self awareness

[terse warren]

Propaganda?

[crystal vapor]

Maybe

[terse warren]

Hallownest also didn't last forever and isn't the last Kingdom, but King's Pass says it is

[crystal vapor]

Yeah but that was the goal

If sentience is offered outside of this

[stray fog]

Also hallownest claims itself to be the first civilization in those caves
Source: Lemm

[foggy fractal]

grrr their name is Boon

[crystal vapor]

How could that be a goal

[terse warren]

Okay you're missing the point

[crystal vapor]

Idk

[terse warren]

It's not that "sentience is offered from other people"

It's that some people just have sentience from birth

And some don't

[honest sun]

so bugs in hallownest are not sentient?

but outside they are

[crystal vapor]

What separates the savage bugs from the non savage then? Do we have any leads on that?

[terse warren]

Wyrms are unique in that they can give sentience to bugs that are close but not quite there

[plain gazelle]

same thing that separates you from a mouse

[terse warren]

Quirrel comic

[terse warren]

No, otherwise everything in Hallownest would be sentient

[crystal vapor]

What about the Pharlids

[terse warren]

Wym

[crystal vapor]

What about it?

[honest sun]

evolution?

[crystal vapor]

Like are they partially sentient

Or is GMS uniquely powerful from Wyrms

Able to make completely sentient beings from savagery

[terse warren]

We see a guy outside the Kingdom and that's more or less how the non-sentient act I think

[stray fog]

Yeah she can do that

[terse warren]

?

[plain gazelle]

what GMS did seems categorically different from PK cuz we don't have evidence that PK's uplifting changed them physically

[terse warren]

Pharlids are just beasts

[honest sun]

maybe bugs are sentient to a certain point and they gain more sentiness when elevated by gms or pk

[terse warren]

GMS forced evolution

[crystal vapor]

So GMS is more powerful

[terse warren]

No?

[crystal vapor]

In that way

[terse warren]

They just do different things

[crystal vapor]

But you said Wyrms could only do it

If there was some sentience

Anyway I gotta go to work

[terse warren]

They're doing completely different things?

[crystal vapor]

Ttyl

[stray fog]

"only" wasn't specified

I think

[terse warren]

The ability to make beacons of sentience is unique to Wyrms

GMS did something completely different, essentially forced evolution, a side effect of that was the elevated sentience

[stray fog]

Beacons are unique to them, but gms also uplifted pharlids

[terse warren]

The issue is that you're comparing too closely things that are completely different

PK's beacon does not influence bugs physically

It makes them smarter

GMS individually forced evolution in Pharlids, and a result of said evolution was sentience, as it can be naturally developed by any bug species

Such as mantises, they are naturally sentient

[stray fog]

[honest sun]

what about them

[stray fog]

There's a theory that herrah was evolved from one of these

Because horns

And herrah looks very different from other Weavers

[terse warren]

What about them

Herrah is probably just a Weaver without her mask

[honest sun]

like widow

[terse warren]

TC fucked up by retconning her into being a Weaver without first thinking that no other Weaver looks like her

[foggy fractal]

epic fail

[stray fog]

She doesn't have a dreamer mask in red memory, its just that hornet doesn't remember her actual face

(idk the source, but everyone claims this so idk)

[terse warren]

Ok? She still could've removed her usual mask to make space for the upcoming Dreamer one

[limpid summit]

Yeah you’re right

The source is Herrah herself

Will you even remember me, child? Could you?...
...A mother... before the mask... before I lay forever in duty...

Hornet has been bombarded with Beast mask iconography for so long compared to the little time she spent with her mom that she remembers the mask and not the face

[foggy fractal]

hornet has bad memory 😔

[plain gazelle]

has there been discourse about why the ancient civ lore tablets in silksong look like pale king's lore tablets in hollow knight

[sinful nimbus]

No

They just seem to both be soul based

[honest sun]

strange that pk didnt appeared in hornets memory

[sinful nimbus]

The actual shape of the tablet is weird though it might be arcane egg inspired or something

[unique canopy]

If the memories are in order, then it implies that she finally got to the Pale Court only after being raised by the Weavers and trained by the Hive, so PK could've been in isolation or even dead by the time she finally got to talk to White Lady

[terse warren]

PK only died after the Palace was brought to the Dream Realm, so that's impossible

[limpid summit]

I forget three queens was originally born of Herrah raised by WL trained by Vespa that’s how they phrased it right

I guess they didn’t necessarily mean in that order

[terse warren]

Things don't have to stay the same

No reason to assume it wasn't all in order

[stray fog]

What if the ancient civilization is the most prominent in hallownest, out of all the kingdoms. Like it was their headquarters

And the language of hallownest evolved from the ancient civilization's language

Their presence in pharloom was much smaller than hallownest

[honest sun]

how did the palace ended up in the dream realm? or is it just a memory of the kingsmould

[timber pond]

It seems like a little of both. It got transfered into a dream scape and then transformed

[plain gazelle]

well the writing for regular bugs seems totally different from what's on the tablets in question. It seems like all the Hallownest tablets that look like the AC ones in silksong were specifically written by Pale King, or at least plausibly so

[timber pond]

The life blood core in HKs abyss also might be the same way

[terse warren]

we don't know, but we do know it's the real palace

[honest sun]

so pk writtes with soul or why is it so glowing

[stray fog]

The thing behind that tablet looks like an arcane egg (as pointed out by someone earlier)

Not an arcane egg

But the egg in the birthplace

[plain gazelle]

it's an interesting question to me because all the other callbacks to HK in silksong's abyss correspond well to things we know about either the abyss itself or the ancient civilization, except these tablets which afaik wasn't associated with either in HK

but yeah they definitely look like they're carved out of an egg-like thing

[stray fog]

What if these tablets were inspired by the ancient civilization?

Can't think of any good explanation

[stray fog]

The pale king was a fanboy

[plain gazelle]

this is pretty much the best i've got too lol

[stray fog]

This reminds me of a crackpot speculation theory I saw on YouTube about the ancient civilization comprising of higher beings

So this writing style could be exclusive to higher beings

Higher beings, these words are for you alone

[crystal vapor]

Why would we assume this tho

That they don’t have a higher being nor do they wear masks

[stray fog]

Higher beings or masks are not necessary for sentience

[crystal vapor]

Why

What is your evidence

[stray fog]

I don't think it is ever said in the game that these things are required

[crystal vapor]

But why assume it’s not when these things are indicated as important

[stray fog]

And with no evidence, them not being required seems like the more logical assumption to me

[crystal vapor]

Why highlight them in the first place if this world just works like real life tho

That seems a strange decision

[terse warren]

Because they are?

[crystal vapor]

Something maybe a byproduct of retconning

[crystal vapor]

Evidence

[terse warren]

You're the one that needs to provide evidence for masks or higher beings being needed for sentience

[stray fog]

Masks are not highlighted for granting sentience

They allow a bug to "focus", and without them, a bug is "lucid"
They can also change one's personality, and they can be used to control bugs to some extent

[crystal vapor]

Why else would they be highlighted

[crystal vapor]

I believe this is a recent speculation yes

[terse warren]

Masks weren't really highlighted until the vague shit in Silksong, and the only Higher Being to grant sentience in HK is PK

[terse warren]

It's old af

[crystal vapor]

But og mask maker seems to claim otherwise

[honest sun]

speaking funny of the pk........
if herrah before doing the dreamer thing wore a long red cloth, but when dreaming the pk gave her (i guess its just the dreamers uniform or smth) a more shorter one..........
does this mean pk gave her a skimpy uniform

[crystal vapor]

Nah this is from new maskmaker

[stray fog]

The personality change thing can be seen with the grimmkin

The focusing dialogue might have also been from hk

[stray fog]

Lol

Bugs don't care about being naked

[crystal vapor]

Doesn’t maskmaker say something along the lines of bugs need masks for their identity

[whole holly]

since druid compares similarities between Old Hearts and Moss Berries and wants there to be beating heart for Mosslands, is it possible in DLC for Moss Druid to concoct new heart for herself or other moss creature?

[crystal vapor]

Aka self awareness

It is cryptic I suppose

I just thought this was pretty well accepted lore

[stray fog]

Yes, that ties in with the personality change stuff

For example, brumm and nymm are the same person with different masks

[whole holly]

but pilgrims are only intelligent creatures along with moss druid inhabiting mosslands i think Moss Druid herself will be new heart of Pharloom

[plain gazelle]

the mask maker line you're thinking of is "A mask! A face! Does it need one? Does it not? To define. To focus. To exist." which, like, even the mask maker throws in the "does it not?" to show that it's kind of ambiguous

[stray fog]

She doesn't have much prominence though

Like she isn't a leader

Or a ruler

[whole holly]

which bug is even ruler of Mosslands?

[stray fog]

Noone

[crystal vapor]

But if they have an identity without the mask why need one

You don’t need a different personality

Just one

[crystal vapor]

Mmm

[stray fog]

For example, The nightmare heart needed to overwrite the grimmkin's personalities to use them for its rituals

[plain gazelle]

worth pointing out that the "it" mask maker is adressing there is specifically The Knight, which has their own specific identity issues going on with mask vs self

[crystal vapor]

So why are masks so widespread

[whole holly]

she wants strong heart inhabiting mosslands and not necessarily ruling it, and after act 3 bone bottom village is basically destroyed, maybe she can revitalize mosshome or whatever she is planning

[stray fog]

Without them, a bug is lucid

[crystal vapor]

Why do bugs all want a different personality

[crystal vapor]

What does that mean

[plain gazelle]

we don't really know

[crystal vapor]

Lol

Okie

[stray fog]

We don't know for sure, hornet says "I wished to hear you lucid" when she unmasks mask maker

[crystal vapor]

This is why I stick with the sentience theory

It’s just an actual answer

Are masks like the void then

[plain gazelle]

we know kingdoms have mask makers, their work is considered important, and not everyone needs a mask

[stray fog]

And masks might be needed to focus, so being lucid is like a state of not being able to focus your thoughts, I think

[crystal vapor]

A sort of way for bugs to find peace

Lucid is like being sober yeah?

Fully aware

[stray fog]

Being drunk

[crystal vapor]

Masks would actually do the opposite

They would make you less aware

[blissful harbor]

being lucid is being aware

[crystal vapor]

Isn’t lucid like lucid dreaming

[stray fog]

Oh

[whole holly]

she says this after we give her all mossberies : Your amulet. Let me... transfuse. Yes. Your amulet's tears will flow stronger still!

[crystal vapor]

Aka aware dreaming

[stray fog]

I had it backwards

[whole holly]

i am replaying silksong steel soul and it caught my attention

[stray fog]

There's definitely potential here

[crystal vapor]

So masks help bugs with their intellectual struggles

From their sentience

It keeps them non savage

[whole holly]

Mmm. You can hear it, yes? Listen close. Weak, but precious. A pulse, a beat! Faint... Our very own... is exhausted dialogue

[crystal vapor]

And doesn’t corrupt them like void

But it’s still a way to keep them insane in such a harsh world

[whole holly]

needolin: Beat beat beat!

In coral, in shell...
And why not here?!
Beating, beating...
The world's rhythms...
In branches, in fields!

[crystal vapor]

That actually makes sense

[stray fog]

Why has noone mentioned this dialogue before

[crystal vapor]

What changed so that mask makers aren’t needed anymore?

Why do these bugs no longer want them?

[stray fog]

Is that true

I don't remember that

[whole holly]

nobody thinks it is interesting, but she is interesting character along with Fayforn, i think there will be something about Druid in DLC