sk-lore

[trail wagon]

I don't think she's voided here

Plus the void would probably take over her consiousness

[muted lantern]

itd be weird for her to be completely stained black by void because she was submerged. and then just have a few continuous strands that are untouched.

[sinful nimbus]

Well she's constantly producing new silk to protect lace

[trail wagon]

It looks like her silk cover was just torn

[trail wagon]

and maybe her silk is waning kinda

in a way

[frigid belfry]

yeah most bugs have a black body

[trail wagon]

she's exhausted by that point

[foggy fractal]

I mean either way GMS can produce black thread, given her face and all, as well as Lace's and Phantom's

[silk dirge]

now i just need to figure out how hornet is getting red metal

[foggy fractal]

red paint

[trail wagon]

She is trying to mantain this cacoon, so most of her powers are used by it

[silk dirge]

from where

[pseudo raptor]

Wrap it in silk

[silk dirge]

is she making it out of red threads

i could see that

[trail wagon]

I think it might be just be an imitation of a usual bug's body

[foggy fractal]

frey trust

[trail wagon]

Like pracitcally all bugs have black limbs

[muted lantern]

she is called a "silk starved beast" by lace at that point, leaning way more on the threadbare concept.

[silk dirge]

idk

[trail wagon]

Well, whichever way you slice it, I don't think she is black because of the void

[sinful nimbus]

This is consistent no matter what

[foggy fractal]

frey's old or new design

[sinful nimbus]

She is in fact being depleted of silk if the void is... consuming her silk

Frey old had more whimsy

[silk dirge]

new design

[trail wagon]

There are also these sprites for when she appears

She is fully white here

[sinful nimbus]

As did all of Bellhart but alas

[trail wagon]

I think it doesn't mean she actually looks like this

[cunning wigeon]

It’s meant to be a glowing silhouette

[trail wagon]

The same way Radiance doesn't ACTUALLY look like that

[sinful nimbus]

But... she does

[muted lantern]

Oh frey was originally a cockroach? man the things that have been taken from us..

[sinful nimbus]

wym Radiance doesn't look like that its in the game 😭

[trail wagon]

the old looks too different from anything in the game, I think it wouldn't really fit

[muted lantern]

I have a question, if silk can be changed in color, can hornet only dye things red? or is she limited to red because its so tied to her "red memory" and all that

[trail wagon]

This specific sprite is used for the fight intro, she isn't fully white, it's just an effect, because she is far and currently glowing

[sinful nimbus]

TC DMd me saying she can weave any color found on the lesbian flag too

[trail wagon]

I have a better question

Can Hornet get silk hair, and dye it??

[sinful nimbus]

Yeha but what's the point

I don't get what you're trying to say

[muted lantern]

hornet with hair would be so fucking cursed

[sinful nimbus]

GMS unravelling into nothing isn't just an effect

[trail wagon]

The point is that I don't think specific sprites of Hornet binding GMS prove her body is fully white

[trail wagon]

ahahahhaha

[sinful nimbus]

Because?

[static narwhal]

Hornet can probably do different colors, but red seems to be important to her as it's the same color as Herrah's cloak before her slumber

[trail wagon]

I've already explained it at least twice

[junior epoch]

I might’ve weighed it wrong since I wasn’t aware that the some were children. Sorry it took me a minute I was looking more into this but she does have a whole taunt too😭 she might not mock ppl as much but she does treat the children much differently than the adults (other than nuu smacking her was a lesson), she’s a lot less blunt in my opinion and even tho she’s still straightforward about it she delivers it w less edge. She talks to lace a lot differently than she does w the other kid NPCs if you look side by side. If you look at it from a “lace is actually a kid” angle it looks like she’s giving it to her bluntly bc of the harshness of pharloom but w sherma she changes the way she talks with him the more he progresses and sees the nature of pharloom. She sees that he’s able to get as far as the blasted steps and wander by the judges without getting harmed but gives him the advice she believes he needs/can swallow. When she previously tried to be blunt w him, he stayed strong w his beliefs which mainly got him through his entire journey. Despite her calling lace child, the difference in how she talks w her compared to the others (Nuu and the runt whom are both presented w the dangers of pharloom) is very telling to me. Also gonna point it out that TECHNICALLY a certain siblings of hers is older than her but is also referred to as a child. I’ll double check on this but lace was said to be older then the majority of the bugs of pharloom so she’s lived a long time, especially since she’s Phantom’s sister whom based on the needlion they were created around the same time but one failed to meet GM silk’s standards while Lace was able to and put up a facade in order to make GM silk never believe she was going to betray her

[silk dirge]

yeah red seems to be the color of hallownest weavers

[muted lantern]

As for lace, is her head shaped like that under the white layer of silk or is it more of a skeletal structure under the white poofy stuff

[sinful nimbus]

We see her body unravel and there's nothing underneath what is there to explain about that

[trail wagon]

when in the Abyss she is not voided, clearly

[sinful nimbus]

You're just assuming her design is inconsistent for some reason

[pseudo raptor]

As her face remains black in the binding sequence it's not a really strong argument

[sinful nimbus]

How is this clearly not voided

[trail wagon]

We see her body unravelled in the Abyss. The binding animation might just be her getting completely destroyed

[sinful nimbus]

But what happens in the abyss is visibly different

It also shows the same thing regardless if you want to argue that though

[trail wagon]

At the ending cutscene her entire body turns white, after defeating LL

[pseudo raptor]

I meant that for WQ

The sprites discussed previously

[trail wagon]

It shouldn't be different

What I'm saying is that white glow doesn't mean she's white

in the Abyss cutscene even her face turns white

[sinful nimbus]

The black parts of her body remain the same in Weaver Queen

[trail wagon]

Because she basically disintegrates

[sinful nimbus]

What happens in the abyss is irrelevant because its a different scenario

She's shown to be completely white thread save for her mask in Weaver Queen

[foggy fractal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLlgaHb_J6A 😔 gms becoming a ball of yarn

[trail wagon]

It's also a silhouette

[sinful nimbus]

I'm not talking about SOTV

Look at the two side by side they are different

The black parts remain in Weaver queen

But there is no black body

So we can conclude there isn't one underneath and she's just voided in the abyss like her daughter

[trail wagon]

yeah, they are different

one sec

[edgy nebula]

if she’s voided why isnt she attacking us

[pseudo raptor]

Yeah her being voided doesn't sit right with me for the actual events and stuff

[sinful nimbus]

Her power might allow her some immunity

She's using basically all her strength to resist the void and preserve Lace

[trail wagon]

I think it's exactly the same thing

[pseudo raptor]

Wrong channel bro

[trail wagon]

If she was voided, she wouldn't be able to control herself most likely

[sinful nimbus]

I mean you can look at the two its just not the same

Phantom's body doesn't unravel

[trail wagon]

tf is this..??

[trail wagon]

agree

Not the same

[sinful nimbus]

iirc Phantom explodes which is why we don't see her grey body

[trail wagon]

but similar

[trail wagon]

their* 🤓🤓🤓

[sinful nimbus]

All roads lead to Phantom gender discussion...

[foggy fractal]

she does the anime blood gushing out thing but with silk then explodes into white silk

[foggy fractal]

Lace child discourse vs Phantom gender discourse who wins

[sinful nimbus]

Two sides of the same coin

[foggy fractal]

😭

[sinful nimbus]

Like vessel purity vs vessel gender

[trail wagon]

There doesn't need to be a discussion. They're referred to as "they" in the journal entry, and in the Needolin cutscene we don't know who is called the "sister"

[pseudo raptor]

Okay this might need a mod ping

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah but its pretty clear that Lace, who is taking a more active stance, is talking to Phantom, who is immobile in a strange device

[foggy fractal]

<@&283547423706447872>

[trail wagon]

walking :3

[spark valve]

lace is talking to phantom and phantom being called they in the journal doesn't mean she's nonbinary that's just how some journal entries are written, like garmond

[gentle aspen]

hey

[trail wagon]

Not really clear

[gentle aspen]

No you’re not

[trail wagon]

How do you know Lace talks to Phantom?

[spark valve]

it is clear

[sinful nimbus]

Joker why did you kill vespasniffle

Not cool

[spark valve]

having eyes

[trail wagon]

Good argument

[gentle aspen]

What did I do

[pseudo raptor]

I am for Lace as speaker in the organ memory because her needolin dialogue lines up better than Phatom's

[sinful nimbus]

you know what you did

[static narwhal]

I think GMS's body is made of silk like Lace, she can just make it herself. We know that silk can be hardened, colored, done whatever with basically. GMS's body I believe is black, and the white is used as clothing/ammo/whatever she might need silk for in daily use. In Weaver queen we are turning GMS into pure silk and binding her as a crest. In SOTV she has expended most of her silk keeping the dome alive and all that's left is the few threads on her bare shell

[trail wagon]

I didn't say Phantom was nonbinary, I only said we don't know Phantom's gender, and the only time they're CLEARLY referred to are referred to as "they"

[spark valve]

it's lace as speaker it lines up perfectly with everything else she says and it's important character development for her

[gentle aspen]

The dialogue matches Lace’s personality and dn dialogue more than it does phantom

[trail wagon]

Phantom also seems to question why they were created

[sinful nimbus]

No other body we bind unravels into pure white silk like that afaik

[silk dirge]

tammo did you know about the cut lace interaction after widow

[gentle aspen]

when

[spark valve]

no

[silk dirge]

its on the wiki

i just found it

its very interesting

[edgy nebula]

many journal entries use they/them

[silk dirge]

idk why they cut it

[trail wagon]

Such as?

[gentle aspen]

garmond and zaza

[sinful nimbus]

Garmond and Sister Splinter come to mind

[edgy nebula]

groal and lugoli are some examples and im pretty sure groal’s a guy

[static narwhal]

No other body we bind is a pale being made out of silk soul I don't think

[gentle aspen]

sister splinter

[trail wagon]

Maybe because there are two of them? 😭

[foggy fractal]

wait lowkey we should complile every single instance of pronoun usage in journal entries like people did with all the "child" statements

[sinful nimbus]

So why are you assuming this

Pretty unprecedented

[spark valve]

just saying this without checking the entry is crazy

[gentle aspen]

If you read the journal entry when they use “they” they are only referring to garmond

[trail wagon]

She is called "she" three or four times

[gentle aspen]

Your previous comment about phantom also questioning her existence is pretty baseless

[static narwhal]

Because we see GMS turning into silk?

[gentle aspen]

notice how hornet refers to her as they/their

[sinful nimbus]

She's made of silk

Why are you assuming its changing colors for no reason

[gentle aspen]

are you like intentionally not reading here

[sinful nimbus]

As opposed to it getting voided which actually has precedent with Lost Lace

[spark valve]

hollow knight fans can't read

[silk dirge]

silk can change colors which DOES NOT mean gms is made of black thread

[trail wagon]

Tbh I get a feeling they do question why they were made and discarded afterwards

[silk dirge]

its just a fun property it has

[sinful nimbus]

I can't believe this. I... need to lay down, but not before reporting this to the woke content detectors 😔

[silk dirge]

but not one that applies to gms

[trail wagon]

Is it ever confirmed btw?

[gentle aspen]

Well, she doesn’t?

[wary zinc]

actually speaking of void I had a big question

[spark valve]

I mean she has black thread in her that's just not that interesting a fact

[gentle aspen]

You kinda just asserted that and then whatever

[sinful nimbus]

Well its kinda in the name and its kinda visible

[pseudo raptor]

No questioning in that, no

[trail wagon]

Only one time, as opposed to only using they/them only ones

[static narwhal]

Why would the threads around her not already be blackened if she WAS voided?

[silk dirge]

i think that might just be like shadows

[trail wagon]

Well, we don't know if she WAS made of Silk

[gentle aspen]

dawg

[silk dirge]

unless you mean her face

[spark valve]

her face yes

[sinful nimbus]

That's the default assumption after seeing the character named Silk unravel into silk

[wary zinc]

how come the knight isn’t instantly obliterated when carrying the everbloom? considering what it does to void? or do vessels have the shell of a bug, just hollowed out by void, so it never makes contact.

[silk dirge]

how does gms face look when shes unraveling

[trail wagon]

Well, no questions in the needolin dialogue, agree, but I don't see why it wouldn't make sense

[trail wagon]

well, it's an assumption 🙂

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah its a bug shell, Hornet also has the black bits which means its probably a body inherited from their dad

[pseudo raptor]

You're posing the dialogue as evidence for them questioning it tho, no?

[gentle aspen]

everbloom/flower doesn’t obliterate void and the knight has a shell made of bug like what have yoh

[wary zinc]

and also, vessels can’t talk? like. the snail shamans are also seemingly void, they talk. and even those corrupted by the void, like lost garmond, can speak also

[pseudo raptor]

Shamans are definitely not void

[silk dirge]

snail shamans arent void

[gentle aspen]

snail shamans aren’t void and vessels are different from the void haunting

[silk dirge]

also void creatures can talk

collector

[trail wagon]

I honestly didn't remember the dialogue accurately, so I agree it wasn't necessarily an evidence

[sinful nimbus]

Void creatures being categorically incapable of speech is a misconception, Pale King only says that in a figurative manner to a vessel he falsely presumed as pure

[wary zinc]

do you recall the flower version of embrace the void

[trail wagon]

Does he talk?

[gentle aspen]

yeah, the void wasn’t obliterated

[silk dirge]

he laughs

[trail wagon]

ohhh

[trail wagon]

well, he doesn't say words 🤓

[wary zinc]

kinda was

[trail wagon]

we don't know what happened

[sinful nimbus]

Demonstrating void is capable of vocalizing is kinda the only barrier to cross over since they should by all means be intelligent enough to put together sentences and stuff

[wary zinc]

yea even if the examples I gave don’t work, the collector does, like, he can talk kinda

[gentle aspen]

I mean aside from godseeker mode existing the fact that silksong could follow dream no more or embrace the void debunks this idea

[sinful nimbus]

But yeah Snail Shamans aren't void and in fact you can see them disintegrate into soul in Silksong

[muted lantern]

Hornets taunt is more of a challenge than any kind of mocking. And frankly, having read all the dialogue many times over, She does speak to lace in a very similar manner to the other kids, aside from the differing context of them being foes. Shes still quite polite to lace despite everything, as she is with most everyone she meets. At worst she takes a scolding tone calling lace a foolish child. Hornet always comes off as fairly sympathetic to lace, especially after their second fight, and even whilst coming to understand laces and respect and empathize with her, she continues to call her a child (and lace keeps calling herself a child) all the way through act 3. similar to how hornet continues to call sherma little one. and for the dangers of pharloom thing, hornet knows lace is a competent warrior, and also her enemy, she has no reason to warn her of anything. and for lace being older than all the other bugs in pharloom, the guy that says that in the same breath says she looks like a child and has the mind of one. So if we disregard her being described as such we also must disregard the line where she is said to be around for longer than most. The clear indication of that line as a whole, though, is that shes meant to be seen as a eternal child who has been trapped as such. Her being that way is probably by design, and phantom being different is likely part of why they were discarded, for outgrowing gms and not being the child that she wanted them to be. gms's childrens lives get more and more restrictive, the weavers were given too much freedom and betrayed her (thats how gms sees at least) so gms designed phantom to be permanently physically reliant on her for silk. but even then that wasnt enough and phantom was discarded. Lace is the final version of the silk children, thought to be pure and perfect, she was made this way so that she would always be emotionally reliant on gms and never grow up unlike while also being physically reliant on silk like phantom.

[gentle aspen]

holy fuck man

[trail wagon]

I believe void creatures are only referred to as "it"

[muted lantern]

I had to reply to an essay with an essay

[trail wagon]

brocholium i really don't feel like

alr fine ahahha

[sinful nimbus]

TLDR :brken

😭

[gentle aspen]

This shit is not an essay where are the goddamn paragraph breaks

[silk dirge]

the yapper(its probably correct)

[silk dirge]

its one paragraph

[trail wagon]

Where are sources? Citiations??!

[gentle aspen]

nah

[muted lantern]

I mean the comment i replied to lacked those lol

[wary zinc]

well I mean if you’re going off of canon endings.
sealed siblings can’t be canon, so, why must embrace the void (flower) be?
we’re just shown what would happen rather than it actually being the case.
drops of void hit the flower and the godseeker and void drips are wiped out in a flash.

[gentle aspen]

what

[silk dirge]

praying that my almost 5 star on rmp professor next quarter lets me write essays on silksong

[sinful nimbus]

Silksong doesn't really shed much light on what happened in the flower ending unfortunately because the everbloom does different things in both games

[wary zinc]

you’re saying it doesn’t because the ending isn’t canon right or nah

[trail wagon]

I'm just joking about it being an essay. I agree with you completely, I will screenshot it too if you don't mind :3

also

this is the Weaver smile

:::3

[silk dirge]

LMAO

[static narwhal]

I feel they have the same effects in both games? They both seem to be able to fend off void creatures

[trail wagon]

:::(

[silk dirge]

shade lord smile ::::3

[trail wagon]

aahahahaha

Lurien: -3

The dreamers be like:
-3
::3
:::3

[stray fog]

Wyrm smile

Nothing

[sinful nimbus]

Delicate Flower completely vanishes the void in a flash while the Everbloom kinda just repels the void worms in a lot less of a flashy manner

[muted lantern]

but yeah i have to make extensive explanations because singular individual arguments can be easily cherrypicked so to its more convincing to present the full picture not just individual instances that you can interpert another way if you really try to.

[trail wagon]

=3=

idk

[sinful nimbus]

O

[stray fog]

In hk, its repelling like 50 mL of void

In silksong, its repelling an entire ocean

[wary zinc]

monomon might be :83

[static narwhal]

Well in HK that void is likely one big creature

[trail wagon]

we don't really know what Delicate Flower does

as much as I wanna say we do

[sinful nimbus]

Well yeah that's what I'm saying

[sinful nimbus]

Well, creatures in that ocean

Which are substantially smaller

[stray fog]

True

[wary zinc]

since we have experts actually

[trail wagon]

It's also weird, because since everbloom got torn apart, wouldn't it mean Hornet should've drowned?

[sinful nimbus]

Well she does go unconscious

[stray fog]

Dont the tentacles vanish / break when the flower touches them?

[muted lantern]

honestly tho atp i don't think any argumentation can change folks minds. it does feel like the 7 years of shipping before the game came out has caused so much cognitive dissonance with people that it feels like denial.

[trail wagon]

Yeah, but why not immediately?

[sinful nimbus]

Why would she

[silk dirge]

i mean what we see in sotv probably happened much faster than we see it

[trail wagon]

They stop attacking Hornet, but the range is pretty small actually

[silk dirge]

tk probably showed up the instant the everbloom disappeared

[static narwhal]

She falls unconscious after the knight finds her, I imagine that scene with her being lifted out is not too long after that

[sinful nimbus]

I've seen a few people change their minds

[wary zinc]

what’s up with “sylph”? we have eva’s sylphsong, and the pale oil being a gland of a “sylphean” slug
sounds like a location, of very, presitigious maybe pale beings?

[silk dirge]

i think the best explanation is that the void tendrils had momentum

[trail wagon]

It's also weird that the EVERBLOOM, which seems to be some kind of special delicate flower seems less powerful than the usual delicate flower from the first game

[blissful harbor]

wind shit

[sinful nimbus]

Average pipeline is Lace isn't a child > Lace can grow out of being a child with GMS gone > Lace not being able to grow up is bad writing

[stray fog]

Sylphsong generates soul
Sylphean bugs make pale oil
Paleness is related with soul

[muted lantern]

also, is the void tendrils attacking you what gives you void sickness or is just touching the void enough

[silk dirge]

i think lace growing up in dlc could be cool

[unique canopy]

"Sylph" in real life is a mythological air spirit

[trail wagon]

Yeah, true

[stray fog]

Also, the sylphsong sprite is a lot like gms's helmet thing

[blissful harbor]

i think everbloom is just another name for it
like plasmium and lifeblood

[stray fog]

And eva is an (almost) higher beint

[sinful nimbus]

Void sickness? Like what happened with Love Key Bug? That's caused by prolonged contact with the substance and its not really a conventional sickness but more their minds merging (Void isn't toxic)

[trail wagon]

woooow, how do we know Sylphean BUGS are PALE?

[stray fog]

My bad

[trail wagon]

We know there are slugs

but what is all of this other stuff

[muted lantern]

the process of becoming one with the void i mean.

or whatever void creature you interacted with

[static narwhal]

I think this is pretty clear. My guess with why it seems to be less powerful is maybe the shadelord didn't expect it to delete them and got caught off guard.

[sinful nimbus]

Kingsmoulds/Collector don't use tendrils so just contact yeah

[silk dirge]

anyways back on my shell shard discussion i think there can be explanations for the last few tools that are kinda weird

pimpillo i think hornet makes the red fabric out of silk

[muted lantern]

but basically i mean the part that makes you get eye goopy like the guys in lighthouse

[lunar wagon]

one thing i never see anyone talking abt

who the fuck is this guy

[trail wagon]

Yeah, and also

[silk dirge]

and the material inside she makes by igniting shell shards somehow

[static narwhal]

Funnily enough we had this earlier. Probably just a noble or something

[trail wagon]

I literally brought this up like an hour ago ahahahah

[stray fog]

Not similar enough imo

[silk dirge]

and voltvessels i think she probably grabbed a piece of voltridian from memorium

which allows her to apply a charge

[sinful nimbus]

Tendrils might do the trick

[lunar wagon]

how do i get as obese as him

[silk dirge]

and then glass being able to be made out of shell shards isnt a stretch i think

[trail wagon]

But I'm wondering too

[trail wagon]

We started with that and ended up discussing the void idk how

[static narwhal]

Live in the USA

[unique canopy]

Join a sumo club

[muted lantern]

but could just touching it do it too? lighthouse guy just seems like prolonged proximity

[trail wagon]

agreed, but still, there are some similarities

[sinful nimbus]

But also there's some wack telepathy stuff going on it seems so maybe it was also a case of the mind merging and there's a random lighthouse bug void clone running around

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah

[muted lantern]

it might just be more like the same mind merging that happened with collector happend with this guy and the entire void

[trail wagon]

take anti-obesity pills

[wary zinc]

oh that’s gormand and zazo

[silk dirge]

lost lighthouse bug

[muted lantern]

deals 4 masks of damage

[trail wagon]

the light seems to scare the void

[sinful nimbus]

HK is updated to rename Collector to "Lost Lovekey Bug"

[wary zinc]

eva’s sprite kind of reminds me of the radiance but that can’t be right

[trail wagon]

gormond with zozo

[trail wagon]

of it can't be but what can be is radiance's thighs

[muted lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/kaboom-boom-nuke-nuclear-bomb-gif-20734003

The lord of shades after I use my trusty flashbang:

void seems bothered by sound too

[silk dirge]

hornet grabbing her 2 billion lumen flashlight

[wary zinc]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046931639290302497/1427978461565419591/caption.gif

[trail wagon]

ahahahah

[muted lantern]

gm's uses her exe's legs as her crowns design.

[stray fog]

Zamn shes 120000

[trail wagon]

perhaps

[trail wagon]

the Weavers say: "for her light eternal.. our song sustains.."

gayjitzu

[stray fog]

MFs in that world want everything to be eternal

"pharloom eternal" ❎
Hallownest ❎
Her light ❎

[trail wagon]

Also I think one of the reasons why the Second Sentinel is called the Second, is because it references Hornet Sentinel. When they are activated, Hornet says this: "Some would argue that standing guard over a kingdom's corpse is a foolish task, empty of meaning. I wonder then, will you still hold true to your charge?" which I think is a direct reference to Hornet being the Sentinel of Hallownest

[trail wagon]

Ahahahahah true

[trail wagon]

Weeeeeell to be honeeest

There's one thing that is eternal

[stray fog]

The eternal ordeal?

[trail wagon]

The eternal service.. 💀

[trail wagon]

ahahahah that too

[trail wagon]

They can't die, as far as we know, at least we don't know what can kill them

[stray fog]

Mr mushroom might be eternal because he re adjusts

[muted lantern]

I still can't decide what kinda bug Shakra is

[trail wagon]

They're powered up by the silk flies, which are extracted souls of regular bugs

[trail wagon]

A tall one

[visual glacier]

Hornet can destroy them

[muted lantern]

The citadel made way cooler constructs than pk

[trail wagon]

But not the flies

[visual glacier]

Fake news

[trail wagon]

perhaps a lesbian one too

[visual glacier]

Mining golems are cooler than the choruses

[muted lantern]

Secsen is way cooler than a goddamn kingsmold

[trail wagon]

Also, this is one bug's soul, right?

[visual glacier]

It’s a silk fly

[trail wagon]

So technically Silksong happens because a single soul revolted against the Citadel lol

[trail wagon]

And they're extracted souls of bugs

[muted lantern]

Ye I think it's one fly per soul, which makes it fucked up that there's more than one in the average cogwork, they are literally all golden freddy

[trail wagon]

Agree, they actually have souls, while kingsmolds are just void

[sinful nimbus]

Golden Freddy dual soul 💔

[muted lantern]

Someone needs to get a voice changer and sing living tombstone songs as secsen

[trail wagon]

Five Flies At Weavers'

[muted lantern]

People say Shakra is a wasp but I don't buy it, no wings for one, which doesn't rule it out knowing HK character design. But the dragonfly tail is what throws me

[trail wagon]

She is definitely not

I don't think there necessarily should be a real bug species similar to some bug species from the game

Like yeah, sure, HK is inspired by bugs, which doesn't mean all of them exist

[muted lantern]

Dragonfly maybe? Vespa is a bee but doesn't she lack wings.

[trail wagon]

I don't think there are void bugs irl

Crawbugs also don't exist

[muted lantern]

Yeah but some bugs have real world inspired designs, like nail Smith, green prince, etc

[trail wagon]

Green Prince?

[muted lantern]

Looks like a grasshopper to me, some say mantis tho.

[muted lantern]

Ye he reminds me of something like a locust maybe

[stray fog]

Mantis

[trail wagon]

I think Plinney is more similar to a grass hopper

[trail wagon]

idk about that

[muted lantern]

Likely to be a different species of mantis than hks kind. But yeah, the bladed arms are very telling

Wait wait

[trail wagon]

Don't Mantis have claws?

GP doesn't

[muted lantern]

Gps arms are blades

[trail wagon]

Yeah, which is not something mantis have

he kinda looks similar though

He looks more like a mantis then the mantis lords ngl

What if he is actually...

[muted lantern]

Might be a different breed of mantis

[trail wagon]

Perhaps

[muted lantern]

But the weird thing his neck does when he sings makes me think he's a chirping kind of bug like a cricket, which do come in green

[lucid bloom]

Green prince is a katydid to me

[trail wagon]

Well, Mantis Lords may look like some real mantis

[brave pawn]

Is krust king Cahn skarrsinger karmelita’s husband?

[trail wagon]

Oh yeah, green crickets

[static narwhal]

Doubt it. They are on opposite ends of the kingdom

[trail wagon]

Of course

[stray fog]

Different types of mantises

[brave pawn]

They spread out to cover more land

[trail wagon]

Karmelita irl

[static narwhal]

What is in game to suggest they might be together? They seem to be different types of bugs too

[brave pawn]

uh how did they get the enemies though?

[static narwhal]

Pardon?

[brave pawn]

They summon enemies in their gauntlets, where do they come from?

[trail wagon]

Khann irl

[static narwhal]

Am I being fucked with?

[random aspen]

whats bro on about

[random aspen]

probably

[brave pawn]

um I don’t know what you are referring to

[random aspen]

i think mantises from hk get horns as they age

or maybe as they get stronger

[visual glacier]

Only the infected and lords have them

[random aspen]

yeah theyre all strong

[brave pawn]

I think I left bro speechless

[random aspen]

since the mantis petra exist it probably grows when they get stronger

cus the mantis in hk lose wings when they age

[static narwhal]

Bro at this point I cant tell which of these things are genuine questions

[brave pawn]

I’m just saying a theory

[random aspen]

https://tenor.com/view/gaongenre-spongebob-patrick-stupid-idiot-gif-4545793449574515217

onto nothing

[brave pawn]

what did I do bro

[static narwhal]

You asked where did those groups get their people. Probably the same way every other society did

[trail wagon]

don't be mean 🙁

[brave pawn]

by?

[random aspen]

its weird asf bro

[static narwhal]

Well when a mommy beetle, and a daddy beetle love each other very much

[trail wagon]

Is this real chat

[lucid bloom]

Yeah

[trail wagon]

i know but still 🙁

[trail wagon]

ahahahhaha

[trail wagon]

when a beetle and his daddy love each other...

[random aspen]

whats seth

[trail wagon]

a boss

[random aspen]

https://tenor.com/view/surprised-surprise-wow-woah-black-gif-5883371

[trail wagon]

a lot of characters are designed by backers, so I don't think they should be expected to resemble real insects

[random aspen]

i mean theres seth and who else

[trail wagon]

Karmelita for example

Seth was designed by a kid, I believe

[random aspen]

yeah i know

[trail wagon]

Rest in peace, Seth.. 😭

[random aspen]

but seth kinda looks like trobbio but hes obviously not a buttrefly

[fossil ledge]

Seth's antennae are ant-like

[random aspen]

karmelita was designed by a backer??

[trail wagon]

Yes, from the same tier as God Taker and Sharpe

Sharpe believers, gather

[visual glacier]

Seth is a flea

[trail wagon]

I don't really know why you would say he looks like him

[trail wagon]

Yes

[static narwhal]

Oh wait Sharpe is supposed to be a backer boss?

[fossil ledge]

Fax

[trail wagon]

not supposed to be, is

[trail wagon]

ohhh like their body

[trail wagon]

I remember their faces better than their bodies

[static narwhal]

Well I guess we know one DLC boss

[fossil ledge]

Now that you mention it, their cape, torso and legs have similarities

Interesting thing is Seth mentions not having wings

[trail wagon]

Not necessarily, actually. TC may want to add it to the third game

[trail wagon]

Yeah, they do

[random aspen]

in the dlc they add a cutscene where seth gains wings and flies away with the fleas confirming hes a butterfly trust me

[trail wagon]

So ugh...

[random aspen]

hate that guy

[static narwhal]

I'd be surprised if the next full game they make is another hollow knight tbh. I know they got another trademark or something that I would think they would do first

[trail wagon]

Yeah, love Loddie though

[trail wagon]

They do have another one, yeah, but I think they still will make another HK

How did Trobbio paint his eyes?

[random aspen]

contact lenses canon in silksong

[static narwhal]

Maybe. It's a really great world that they could do anything in. I'd like to see a new character not directly connected to what has happened in Pharloom and hallownest

[trail wagon]

Or glasses perhaps

[trail wagon]

They won't be, most likely

[random aspen]

benjins likely just a roach but wtf is crull

[trail wagon]

Honestly I think we'll get a completely new character in the third game

[trail wagon]

wdym he is a roach, is he a cannibal? 💀

[random aspen]

muckroaches are maggots

[pseudo raptor]

He’s just got a snitchfly snoot

[trail wagon]

Well, they ask you to bring roaches' guts..

[trail wagon]

but they're roaches

[random aspen]

its just the name

[trail wagon]

Initially they were called "dustroaches"

so they are implied to be roaches

[pseudo raptor]

These maggots grow into roaches, actual bug terminology isn’t strict

[trail wagon]

although he might be a cannibal, it's possible

[random aspen]

these guys are super duper on the fictional side bro

[trail wagon]

yeah, agree

[trail wagon]

idkkk

[random aspen]

wtf even is this 🙏

[trail wagon]

mites exist

[trail wagon]

bloatroach

ahahahaha

I love mites

they're cool

[pseudo raptor]

Citadel exhaust gives you wings

[trail wagon]

Why do they scream so funny

[trail wagon]

aahahahahahahhahahhahah

[random aspen]

honestly trying to figure out what kinda bugs they were based on is hard but thers probably a bug out there that looks similar to this guy

there has to be

one of those weird ones with the fucked up heads

[pseudo raptor]

Anyway I don’t think pointy face means Crull is a roach. And Benjin just looks like the average round beetle-like bug

[trail wagon]

they're literally axolotls

It's even in the name

Zylotol is similar to axolotl

[random aspen]

ok so they just let anyone in hollow knight now 💔

[pseudo raptor]

The fish in coral tower:

[random aspen]

when are we getting actual spiders

[random aspen]

zango

zango is based on a mango

[trail wagon]

yes lol

[random aspen]

is that it

[trail wagon]

Yes

[random aspen]

zyltol is based on an axlotl

thats so weird

[trail wagon]

Yes

[random aspen]

if it was that they couldve designed it off them better tbh

just the headshape and its not even that accurate

[trail wagon]

I mean it's an axolotl-looking bug, the same way craws are crow-looking bugs

[silk dirge]

ok you know i was thinking about the durability of hornets needle and the knights nail and im wondering now

how is thk's nail broken

[random aspen]

does zylotol look like an axolotl though?

to me not really he got like 6 legs and really round

[pseudo raptor]

Craws are actually not that ridiculous if you look at hummingbird hawk moths

[trail wagon]

We have jellyfish and flying fish 😭

[silk dirge]

it doesnt make sense to me

[random aspen]

yeah but theyre more obvious

[silk dirge]

especially considering its stylized with the pure nail design in etv

[trail wagon]

wdym? when they die?

[random aspen]

if theyre gonna do that why didnt they just go all out on making zylotol look like an axolotl

[silk dirge]

which wouldnt make sense when its broken

[silk dirge]

no its got cracks

like your needle and nail at the start of the game

[trail wagon]

but why are there fishes flying underground without water??

[trail wagon]

Oh doesn't needle have it too?

[random aspen]

cus theyre like inflated with air or something

[silk dirge]

yeah

[trail wagon]

It's just so old ass that it beings to crack atp

[silk dirge]

this doesnt make sense tho

its somehow cracked but still in pure nail form?

[trail wagon]

who?

ohhh

[silk dirge]

oh god terrible image quality

[trail wagon]

you're talking about

[trail wagon]

THK

[silk dirge]

yeah

[trail wagon]

hhhmmmmmmmm idk

not so pure

[pseudo raptor]

You can break a blade without sanding down all the markings

[trail wagon]

as pure as the pure vessel ig

[unique canopy]

Their nail is cracked in the normal fight

[silk dirge]

i mean yeah but id assume a pure nail or pale steel needle basically never wears down

[trail wagon]

I thiiiiink it's not so pure after all

[unique canopy]

Neither THK nor PV have any actual detail on their nail in their battle sprites, they're just solid colours each except for the cracks in THK's. So the added detail is probably what it's supposed to look like closer up, which is why that detail appears in PV's sword pillars attack since they're the size of the screen

[silk dirge]

i mean yeah but in tks inventory when the nail is cracked it doesnt have any design

did pk give tk a normal ass nail and then forged a pure one for thk

actually that makes sense

[pseudo raptor]

Hornet’s needle also has cracks at the start, it’s still high quality steel underneath the wear

[unique canopy]

I imagine TK is not using whatever blade was bequeathed upon THK by the Pale Court

[silk dirge]

anyways i feel like a pure nail/needle should basically never wear down tbh

[trail wagon]

wee

weeeeeaaaah

[pseudo raptor]

Pale oil economy in shambles

[trail wagon]

omgwhy

[silk dirge]

the cursed driznarga without cone

[trail wagon]

Why do they explode btw? And.. are they like made of dust?

[pseudo raptor]

If bile explodes why not

[silk dirge]

like tk's nail is "crafted to perfection" i feel like perfection means its literally impossible to dull out

[trail wagon]

hahaha

[silk dirge]

so i wonder if thks nail could be an extension of it being supposed to be pure and perfect but not actually

[pseudo raptor]

Huh do most bug mouths we see have pink/red colour?

[silk dirge]

i feel like that could work with tk not containing the radiance but destroying her and uniting the void

idk this discussion is kinda meaningless tbh

[trail wagon]

Do you guys think Zi is an automoton?

Her voice is pretty robotic

[silk dirge]

but in my eyes a blade sharpened to ultimate form should basically never wear down

[silk dirge]

shes probably like a terminator 2 type liquid metal robot

[trail wagon]

kinda

what are these names 😭

Palestag is also referred to as the "white cloverstag"

[robust wagon]

This does not look like lore

[trail wagon]

It does

[trail wagon]

withered male is a cannonical defintions from the game files

[pseudo raptor]

File names are not authority for lore 🤓 ☝️

[trail wagon]

Why the hell are there watcher knight spins in the game files?

[pseudo raptor]

There’s a lot of leftover code from Hollow Knight last I heard

[trail wagon]

Yeah, that's true

[frigid belfry]

some spell sprites are still in game lmao

its part of the reason why the knight in pharloom mod was quick to come out

cant believe team cheryr ripped off team berry's hollow knight and rushed silksong

[frigid belfry]

wtf am i hearing

is that strive + karmelita + widow

[arctic cliff]

Sister splinter too

[trail wagon]

It's Sister Splinter + Widow + Karmelita

[frigid belfry]

keep that talent hidden🔥

[trail wagon]

ahahhaha

I only spent like less than a minute making this

what Lore implications are there?

[silk dirge]

LMAO

also is boneforest getting cut the coral gorge of hk

[edgy nebula]

boneforest was super early in development iirc, we saw alot of coral gorge, id say coral gorge's cut is far crazier

[foggy fractal]

I mean, coral gorge wasn't cut super late or anything

if acmi is anything to go by

[visual glacier]

wtf

[silk dirge]

yeah uh

please

i think theyre afraid of answering what happened to coral gorge 😭

[visual glacier]

The citadel happened

Duh

[foggy fractal]

nah nah they're keeping relatively quiet still because dlcs

trust.

they'll become more active after that TRUST.

[stray fog]

Where is this from

[silk dirge]

blog post

[stray fog]

WHAT

TEAM CHERRY SPOKE??

[foggy fractal]

https://www.teamcherry.com.au/blog/11xf7azcuebhybgossfhdc0mphiqbs

old blog post

from 2019

[stray fog]

Oh

[foggy fractal]

well it's not like they haven't been doing blogposts since silksong release

https://www.teamcherry.com.au/blog/silksong-patch-4 most recent one was 20 days ago

it's all just patch notes though

[stray fog]

Changelogs are a different thing

[silk dirge]

is there a list of changelogs of the new betas

[foggy fractal]

I mean, tc puts them all under the blog section

and it's not like they don't say anything outside of the changes

[silk dirge]

like do we know anything that was changed in these

presumably their more minor updates

but idk

[foggy fractal]

no idea

wiki people may have some smart enough to figure this shit out

[silk dirge]

i know the vaultborn entry fix is in one of them i think

[foggy fractal]

oh yeah I like glanced past that

what's that about again ?

[silk dirge]

different entries for vaultborn depending on if you release them in act 2 or if they got auto released in act 3

[foggy fractal]

you can release them in act 2 ?

was that always a thing

[silk dirge]

yes

theres a breakable wall in vaults

and you turn on a light

[foggy fractal]

wtf

send me footage of this

[silk dirge]

https://youtu.be/BWx0J1eWSfE?si=vXRPcML4vTtPKVzo

[blissful harbor]

is there another way youre supposed to come across them?

[foggy fractal]

tc was right about being fine with players missing stuff cuz I sure missed this

[blissful harbor]

i thought it was an optional thing, and they just don’t appear if you don’t let them out

[foggy fractal]

they just appear in act 3 whether or not you released them

though there seems to have be a fix for the journal entry that matches the method of you meeting them (released vs unreleased till act3)

which afaik just didn't match before ? something like act 3 version for act 2 release

smth like that

[silk dirge]

im curious if the changes are retroactive

[silk dirge]

ok we have some cooking going on here
https://youtu.be/RC7U8uM87kc?si=zgfCNApqroSgz9of

https://youtu.be/frM44VK-75Q?si=pO4d6Tp_m75FZjb0

[edgy nebula]

i feel like these are likely just rocks that hold pale ore, since we know the masks in silksong are made of that, and we also see some stuff similar to it in pale ore locations in hk if im not wrong?

this

[silk dirge]

i see

[craggy smelt]

hrmm

the background of the tunnel outside Hollownest's Mask Maker looks like it holds large black spheres, like Black Eggs

the Black Egg interior has that AC-ish construction

ancient masks are carved of pale ore, and seem connected with AC, with some shards near their construction

...

no, I don't know what any of this could mean, if anything

AC were carving masks and storing them in eggs?

they used arcane eggs to store information... maybe larger eggs to store mask shards and pale ore?

even larger eggs to store dudes?

[copper fiber]

what age do you think lace is physically

look of a child is any age below 18

[mild adder]

She is literally older than almost everything in pharloom

[craggy smelt]

a trillion years

[mild adder]

+she is a silk golem automaton homonculus

[copper fiber]

I mean physically, since hornet knows she’s a child from a first glance

[mild adder]

It’s more like how she behaves than anything else tbh

[craggy smelt]

yeah

[copper fiber]

fuck this channel

[craggy smelt]

Shakra also calls Hornet a child, so youngish

but it doesn't mean literally underage

[copper fiber]

I was discussing why Lace might not be a child earlier and everyone was saying she was a child

now everyone’s saying she’s not a child

I hate this server

[mild adder]

It’s almost like different people have different opinions lol

[craggy smelt]

welcome to hollowlore

[copper fiber]

also I thought about it and despite what people say, there are many characters older than hornet

grand mother silk is the most obvious one, but there’s also widow, first sinner, Karmelita, green prince, groal the great

lace, phantom and that one conductor are debatable

[craggy smelt]

I don't know how anyone's suppose to tell relative age anyway when everybody is some wildly different species of bug-thing
Lace probably looks on the young side as far as bugs judge such things, I doubt anyone actually thinks she's like a little kid or anything
she behaves pretty childishly, certainly

[mild adder]

One person posed the possibility she is child shaped due to how GMS made her which is something I like the idea of, but not only is she as big as the avarage bug, hornet doesn’t call Phantom a child even though she is literally from the same fabrication line
And their respective age is ancient

[visual glacier]

What’s your point

[copper fiber]

it’s just an idea I thought of

[mild adder]

Groal is debatable, and that isn’t “many characters” in an entire kingdom there are 4 ancient bugs, two of whom are dead already, and a pale higher being

Very few are older than hornet. Because they have to be older than the arrival of the weavers to the hallownest

The architect and the conductor are as old as the establishment of the eternal sleep machine for the GMS

[copper fiber]

how come groal is debatable, weren’t they alive when the citadel was built and began polluting Bilewater

[mild adder]

I’d need to look over the few tidbits we have on groal but groal could easily be just a result of one of the bile water residents finally getting their hands on the friendly snail that just came to conspire.

I don’t really remeber getting anything on when the snails arrived

Like a descendant chief sort of thing

[ornate pier]

We don't know if like the Stilkins' hate is passed down for generations or something

[lone folio]

First sinner is kind of dead though

Not sure if that counts

[copper fiber]

how does hornet fight her

[lone folio]

It's a good question

We don't really know how because it seems like a it's a dream boss fight

so either first sinner isnt killing her and is just having a duel or Hornet somehow gets transported into the silk realm when she enters the cage

Actually no she can't be in the silk realm since she goes there after defeating her

I guess she awakens first sinner from her mummification and has a duel with her

[craggy smelt]

I think it's something like what Hornet alludes to when you turn down binding Eva

Yours is a mind strong and strange. That union could prove dangerous to my identity.

sometimes binding things can threaten Hornet mentally

the fight with First Sinner might be something like that - a mental struggle to subdue First Sinner's mind

[copper fiber]

that's peak actually

[hushed crater]

I think first sinner was imprisoned there and when hornet binds her she wakes up and tests hornet to make sure that she is the one and she doesn't kill hornet because she knows that this has to happen she is just waiting for the right weaver

[spark reef]

Hey.

I am working on making a lore video on Silksong.

And i saw mossbag's video.

I want to know how he or the HK community, came to the conclusion that the Weavers created the religion and the whole system to put GMS into slumber?

[stuck nymph]

that makes sense with the fact she doesnt end steel soul runs because its not a dream sequence, for garmond and zaza and shakra their reason already made sense

and I suppose palestag doesnt end a run either tho kinda unrelated to the topic

[spark reef]

Also, do we ever hear the actual silksong melody in the game?

[stuck nymph]

shrine bells

[tiny steeple]

Isn't that in a dream/memory?

[stuck nymph]

yes but not the memory boss

[tiny steeple]

Still in a memory tho

[stuck nymph]

what I thought, yes

[spark reef]

Those were only 4 notes.

[craggy smelt]

A big clue is in the conversation with Mask Maker

Our mortal mob did once act some defiance, unawares maybe, but successful in part, goaded towards it by Weavers' will'n all.
Hornet: You speak of the Citadel? Its former function has failed, but I can still sense its purpose, some. It is church and cage both.
Aye. Devised by your ancestors that monstrosity, and their wicked, clever minds. A system, or a web they'd likely call it, a way to keep their mother sealed in slumber, and themselves free to lavish in their false rule.
Also various bits from the Conductor, Vaultkeeper, and Architect

[stuck nymph]

also part of a few themes
fun extra fact, beastling call is part of bell beasts theme

the main theme might also be part of the defeault melody from needolin

[stuck nymph]

4 important notes, the 4 notes have a name and has something to dow with mortality, I dont exactly remember

[spark reef]

Thank you.

[stuck nymph]

but relates to lore, and diegetic

[spark reef]

Dies irae?

[stuck nymph]

yes

I saw it describes the last judgement

from a very quick search

[spark reef]

"free to lavish in their false rule?"

[tiny steeple]

Wdym?

[stuck nymph]

I do know that every music to its core tone has a meaning

[spark reef]

the weavers ran.

and i don't know when they ran but they fled Pharloom

[stuck nymph]

best example was that I saw that a music expert was able to tell basically the whole story about bilewater from its music alone while not having played the game

[tiny steeple]

Yes but they ruled for a bit

[craggy smelt]

yeah, basically the Citadel took over maintenance of silk and song, and the Weavers could do what they like
but ultimately it was all futile, because it was always going to end with GMS breaking free
Conductor:

Only one monarch's claws ever clutched this kingdom, though we raised our voices to cry otherwise.
At some point the Weavers realized this, and some of them bailed on the kingdom

[stuck nymph]

music lore can be a while video or even series on its own

[spark reef]

awakening and silksong sound almost identical

[stuck nymph]

I recommend a series by a youtuber named ´CJS´ for this

[spark reef]

of course, awakening is more bombastic

[stuck nymph]

yes, its also part of that theme, which also plays in silk heart sequences

[spark reef]

"A beast's nature bare to all"

I get it.

Pale beings.

it confused me in the beginning but now, remembering what the caretaker said to hornet.

[stuck nymph]

I gotta leave cuz school

[spark reef]

There's one question still remaining.

What caused the falling out between the weavers and GMS?

I think the hint lies in the First Sinner.

"..she called us daughters...called us divine...she lied."

[tiny steeple]

Gms was (i think) treating weavers like slaves or harshly or Smth and they got mad when they figured out their origins and they rebelled

[spark reef]

reminds me of loki from Thor 1.

[tiny steeple]

Oh yeah tru

[copper fiber]

does anyone else have opinions on how old lace is physically ("look of a child")

anyone who believes in lace being a child

[craggy smelt]

could be simply that First Sinner uncovered the truth about their creation
rather than literally being GMS' children, they were created from beasts
this might just have been the final straw though, there's mentions of them wanting to escape her gaze or finding her rule burdensome in general

[spark reef]

So, I am trying to sense a pattern here.

So let me lay down some points here.

GMS makes Weavers from Pharlids. Doesn't mention about their actual origins.

Weavers retaliate by puttting GMS into slumber.

GMS also happens to create two children from Silk, Lace and Phantom.

both children end up rebelling too.

And yet, in the end, GMS creates a coccoon in the Abyss to save lace.

[tiny steeple]

Her body and mind is that of a child's. Her actual age tho, is quite old. (My opinion)

[spark reef]

Hornet despises her father.

[copper fiber]

but how old of a child

[spark reef]

Hornet is a child born from Herrah.

[copper fiber]

there's a difference between 6 and 16

[tiny steeple]

A teen?

[spark reef]

But is essentially raised by the White Lady

[copper fiber]

some people say 12 which i find hard to imagine

[spark reef]

and trained by Vespa

there is a cycle that was broken when Hornet saved Lace.

and when GMS indirectly saved both of them

[copper fiber]

i feel that lace's physical age is similar to hornet's
obv that doesn't justify shipping them because lace's mental age is also that of a child

[craggy smelt]

can't imagine how they're coming to that conclusion
(there isn't even any time measurement in the game)
I'd say young-adult, I think Hornet is perpetually young but still an adult, while Lace gives the impression of being younger

[copper fiber]

yeah something like that

[spark reef]

Hornet is wolverine.

[craggy smelt]

especially with the Beast Crest

[spark reef]

She is quite old to the point where she struggles to remember her mother's face.

Red Memory makes that particularly clear

[spark reef]

I have yet to master that.

[tiny steeple]

I thought hornet was just small and i didn't think lace was capable of growing, from what I heard lace is permanently a child

[copper fiber]

btw what do you make of this dialogue

is hornet fully grown

[copper fiber]

it's implied that hornet also looks quite young

[spark reef]

Emotional maturity is one thing. Physical growth is another.

[copper fiber]

like lace she is also repeatedly called child and there's the whole eternal lifespan thing

[tiny steeple]

Hornet could be like young for her kind, making her look young, tho she is a hybrid so idk

[craggy smelt]

I think that's referring to something more than just ordinary aging, more like Hornet's nature as a pale being
she hasn't finished evolving into whatever final form she may attain (Weaver Queen shows one possible state she could reach)

[spark reef]

Yeah. But i don't think she'd ever want to be that.

[copper fiber]

i interpret the weaver queen ending as her giving in to her pale desires to be worshipped

[craggy smelt]

she mentions some part of her does, but she seems more interested in staying free and keeping pharloom free

[copper fiber]

would she be a benevolent ruler of pharloom or nah

[craggy smelt]

oof

'a beast's nature'

who knows

[spark reef]

yeah. I mean, the 'some part' of her would refer to the aspirations the Weavers might have had for her.

[tiny steeple]

Well she's only half so I think the only way she could become that powerful is for her to bind a pale being or smth

[copper fiber]

so i consider lace and hornet to be of similar age physically, is that contradicted by anything in canon

[spark reef]

this is why i think Herrah's dialogue is so liberating.

She basically tells Hornet to make her own path.

as opposed to what the Weavers were saying.

[craggy smelt]

I do wonder when Herrah came to hold that attitude
since she was probably on board with breeding a weaver god-queen savior at some point
otherwise why make the deal in the first place

[tiny steeple]

As far as I know, no

[craggy smelt]

maybe finally holding little baby hornet melted her cruel weaver heart

[spark reef]

herrah is also different from most weavers.

i mean, just look at her character design.

Most weavers (who we now know have evolved from Pharlids) have spheres as heads.

Wheraes Herrah actually looks like a bug

[spark reef]

It makes me wonder if being different is why she came to hold that attitude in the first place.

[spark reef]

could be

[lethal burrow]

Oh shit, are we doing this again? Been a while.

[spark reef]

it's no secret that becoming a parent changes your perspective.

[spark reef]

bruv, it's been only 2 months.

[craggy smelt]

there's some cut sprites of shadowy weavers with different shaped heads, I can't find it now though
(and anyway cut)

[lethal burrow]

I think in all ways apart from "chronological amount of years she has existed" she is a child

[spark reef]

I'm not sure if we should really utilize cut content.

[craggy smelt]

we shouldn't, they're just neat

[copper fiber]

about which age
like do you think she's a toddler or a teenager

[lethal burrow]

Probably a teen teenager. I can't imagine her being younger than 13.

And even then that's low

[copper fiber]

hm

[lethal burrow]

she certainly has the teenager angst down

[craggy smelt]

If I was an immortal demigod princess and someone around 18-21 years old (or equivalent) was bothering me, I'd still call them a child
just putting that out there

'go away kid, ya bother me'

[copper fiber]

yeah that's the scenario i think it is

[lethal burrow]

Yeah, but there's other things there's other things. It's not just that it's other things there's other things there's other things you can't.

[copper fiber]

are you okay

[lethal burrow]

People say the same things too much it hurts

She could just be saying that because she's old, but there's other characters and there's other things that suggest she's a child. She's a

[craggy smelt]

In my mind Hornet is like eternally 20-ish, and Lace is more teen-agery, I'm fine with calling that a child still

[visual glacier]

She has the voice of a child, we know that much

[copper fiber]

a physically 20 year old would call a physically 16 year old a child i agree

[craggy smelt]

especially if she was also a million years old

[copper fiber]

do the snail shamans have any kind of extended lifespan or are they regular bugs

[visual glacier]

Not hornet standards btw

Regular ass bug standards

[craggy smelt]

I would not be surprised if they had some kind of very long lifespan
the snails in pharloom seem like they've been aroud for some time

[obsidian gale]

The snails seem to call her old, implying she is older than most pelgrims at least

[copper fiber]

hornet is several lifetimes old yes

bug lifetimes

in human years she's probably around 2

[fathom parrot]

I finished like act I

And i was wondering

Is Godseeker's land of storms the same as blasted steps?

[stray fog]

Nope

[fathom parrot]

:(

[stray fog]

Also, you'll see spoilers in this channel

[fathom parrot]

Is there more lore to blasted steps after act 1

[stray fog]

Yes

[fathom parrot]

Ok then bye

[spark reef]

@craggy smelt Is it confirmed when the bugs were exploited in the underworks? Was it during the Weavers rule or after?

anyone else can answer this question as well

[visual glacier]

It’s implied that the underworks were made by the conductors

[craggy smelt]

in its earliest history, the Citadel was described as 'unadorned stone' - at some point it became a lot fancier
that's probably when the complex operations like the Underworks were built, with the Architects and such building things
the Weavers were almost certainly behind the creation of the Architects (living tools, like their Servitors), so the Underworks might've been started when they were still involved

An Architect's work owes much to the art of the f-f-first children. They set expert standard for the tools and talents of Pharloom eternal.

[heavy gyro]

It seems like the underworks was added after the weavers left, as theres a ruined weaver shrine there, and every other shrine (other than first sinner's if that counts) is outside iirc

[solar tapir]

so Architects are weavers creation

[craggy smelt]

I think so. Otherwise, they were built by bugs who held the Weavers in very high regard

You are weave-type, yes? A first child? Rare-e-e-extinct. Or not it does so seem.
Hornet: You see it true, Master. I bear the lineage of Weavers, along with other strands, equally strange.
Then on your r-r-request, Bug-Red, as directive demands, for Pharloom's first children, a-a-a-and our kingdom-eternal, I shall serve. I shall c-c-craft.

[fervent sigil]

aren’t architects one of the 3 rulers of the citadel after the weavers

[craggy smelt]

they were an important element of it

[fervent sigil]

alongside vault keepers and conductors ye

[craggy smelt]

yeh

[solar tapir]

heard here a while ago that Architects made by conductors

[craggy smelt]

I'm open to being corrected

they seem a bit different from proper weavenest servitors, but same principle - living tools

some of the cogwork constructs also utilize silk like servitors

they might all descend from similar designs

[fervent sigil]

like silk flies?

[spark reef]

i think silk flies and architects were made by conductors.

[craggy smelt]

silk flies are used to animate cogwork constructs
servitors are animated by silk runes

[spark reef]

this.

servitors is exclusively weaver tech

[craggy smelt]

it may be that the Weavers created the first architects, and then they developed their own designs from there

[solar tapir]

i more agree that they are weavers creation

but their brass design

confuse a little

[solar tapir]

Maybe that the case

[fervent sigil]

so weaver>conductor>architect-vaultkeeper?

[craggy smelt]

if only there was a First Architect hanging around somewhere, we could compare the earliest designs

[stray fog]

https://youtu.be/RC7U8uM87kc
https://youtu.be/frM44VK-75Q

New lore videos

[fervent sigil]

we’re architects made by conductors or weavers

that’s the question

[solar tapir]

Now i wonder... Did Architects obey the Conductors? Or just coexist and build all citadel's machinery on its own.

[pale narwhal]

i have to assume weavers.
they were given part of the melody which iirc all three say came from the weavers

[fervent sigil]

@pale narwhal true then

[stray fog]

Are sprintmasters universal?

Like is it a title that's used in many kingdoms

[frigid belfry]

implied there were/are multiple

including dashmaster

maybe its some sort of religion or clan or master->disciples relationship

[frosty gate]

Weavers, or so it seems

I still feel the TFM is such a fucking weird thing

[frosty gate]

Probably just coexisted, maybe they helped them with some stuff.
Different from the Conductors and the Vaultkeepers, the Architects don't seem to have much of an ego.

[frosty gate]

To be actually honest, what we know is that the Weavers at the very least, appointed Architects to the job

But we don't know if the First Architect was Bug or Machine

[lean temple]

Likely some kinda clan. Nuu uses the same mark as the Hunter implying a hunter clan as well.

[frosty gate]

Probably, I think it's cool to see different Hunters that hunt in different ways

[charred nimbus]

i don't know if the hunter symbol is a clan/religion or just a hunting symbol for multi culture

but i know that i wanna tattoo that

[ember river]

I got around to watching mossbag's video, liked some of the explanations a lot, especially the weaver timeline

Thoughts on it?

[frosty gate]

Wtf is the Weaver timeline

I just know he got some interpretations wrong

[ember river]

Basically everything that happened while the weavers were still around and all

[frosty gate]

I need to remember to reply to people and not just write in the chat

[ember river]

Which ones? Haven't looked too much in depth but the general outline seemed alright

[lean temple]

Tbh I feel I didn't gain much of anything from that video

[frosty gate]

I haven't seen the video, I just remember people were fighting over the video when it came out

I even remember a guy came and asked why has the video not been pinned in the channel

[ember river]

There were a couple details I hadn't noticed, like the entire cradle being a giant loom

[ember river]

Eh, it's still a bunch of theories and nothing too conclusive

I see no reason why it should be given more credit than any other discussion held here

[lean temple]

Yeah definitely. Some environmental details I wasn't aware of but nothing too substantial I feel

[frosty gate]

People look at Mossbag too highly, and to be fair, I was there once years ago, I still like him, but Silksong is just extra convoluted

[ember river]

Mossbag is a neat primer into the lore I'd say

But other than that you've really gotta go elsewhere

Like for example the four heart tribes are glossed over pretty broadly, and much more information can be extracted from them

[frosty gate]

I mean yeah, someone else said it, if you want to get into the lore, Mossbag will be the guy to get you into the lore, but he still can get things wrong

[frosty gate]

You mean the Old Hearts? what did he say about them?

[ember river]

Not much, he just mentioned they were around and eventually withered due to GMS's influence

In all fairness he was describing the weavers but they go unmentioned

[frosty gate]

Well I guess he was trying to keep it cohesive and not go deep into speculation?

Old Hearts is an annoying topic

We don't have too much info on them

We have enough to speculate, but few things can be confirmed

[ember river]

Heart lore is too vague yes

[frosty gate]

Oh wait is it true he said the Princes were twins?

[lean temple]

No?

[ember river]

Yeah he called them twin princes

[frosty gate]

Damn

[lean temple]

My memory is failing me

[ember river]

Which can be true in a way which is definetely NOT what people will understand it as

[lean temple]

In the way that they just look identical

And not... the other way

[ember river]

Yeah, twin as in dual, instead of a central kingdom they are something like Andorra

Wait, they are literally like Andorra except they don't rule other countries

[stuck nymph]

Her body doesnt age cuz silk
Thats partly why she has a weird relation with gms

[frosty gate]

Hispanic detected

[lean temple]

Fascinating

[frosty gate]

SWEET
HOME
ALABAMA

(SHA)

[lean temple]

Add a w to that...

[frosty gate]

Not as in, brothers

Good

Nevermind then

[ember river]

Your opinion and something that is outright stated ingame

[frosty gate]

Let it die

[ember river]

HOPEFULLY he didn't mean it

[frosty gate]

Just let the topic die

[frosty gate]

Let's stay hopeful then

I find it interesting that both Hallownest and Pharloom share this one thing in common

They have the same two third parties doing their own thing for no reason

Snails and Mask Makers

They are just there

Not appointed by the Kingdom

Nor brought by them

They don't even seem to obey the rulers

[lean temple]

And the Steel Faction

Bcz ofc they need to be there too

[frosty gate]

The Steel faction is a different topic from these two honestly

[blissful harbor]

mask makers seem to be apart of every kingdom, it’s an essential job, in their own words

shamans are AC remnants and that’s why they’re everywhere like they were

[frosty gate]

The Steel Faction in Pharloom comes here after

[lean temple]

Crossroads Shamans outright disproves that

[frosty gate]

Jiji seemed to be there for a while

[lean temple]

It's always the darn crossroads shaman

[frosty gate]

Crossroads Shaman is a bitch, but I don't agree with the AC theory

[blissful harbor]

crissroads says the abyss isn’t a place their kind though to look for power, which like SS throws a wrench in anyways
caretaker implies its shaman nature

[frosty gate]

I've said it before, that dude is unreliable info

[lean temple]

True. But it's interesting because in Hallownest it seems the Masters intended for Jiji and Jinn to interact with someone, but in Pharloom they are just there to watch.

[blissful harbor]

he is, went crazy from isolation
happens to the best of us

[frosty gate]

Caretaker is the real goat of information

MOST OF THE INFO ON SILKSONG COMES FROM THAT DUDE

ITS INSANE

[heavy gyro]

Finally some caretaker respect

[frosty gate]

He has so many fucking dialogues

He is so fucking important

[ember river]

Snails are pretty self-focused and mask makers seem to acknowledge the events and partake in them

They seem to have some sort of order

[frosty gate]

I can't say, I didn't get to them, I wanted to not read the Wiki and read their dialogues in my own save but...

[ember river]

He provides more info about the citadel than the actual citadel hierarchy and that will always be funny

[frosty gate]

I can't get past Moorwing

[ember river]

Wait, you got stuck at moorwing?

[frosty gate]

Quite the opposite

[ember river]

Partake was the wrong word

[frosty gate]

He killed me when I got there, I got pissed and never played again

[lean temple]

Oof sorry

[frosty gate]

I fucking hate Moorwing

[ember river]

But they seem to have an agreement with whatever higher force

[frosty gate]

LET ME ONE SHOT FS A HUNDRED TIMES

[ember river]

Yeah it's an annoying asshole but it was made easier a while back

[frosty gate]

But I cant deal with Moorwing

[ember river]

They mention some sort of a deal, do they not?

[frosty gate]

I'll probably just skip it with the Fleas next time

[ember river]

To work until their own collapse, or the kingdom around them

[frosty gate]

Probably

[lean temple]

Mask Maker?

[ember river]

Yeah mask maker