sk-lore

[muted lantern]

Oh boy i sure hope tc doesnt make us kill fayforn and put her heart on hornets shelf

[silk dirge]

something to do with silkshot maybe

[sinful nimbus]

I love Fayforn which is why I want her to get a tuff boss battle

[lone folio]

Also fell in this case could refer to her being a vicious beast which I find halirous given how it looks and acts in gameplay

Knowledge

[sinful nimbus]

It does kill people on a whim

[lone folio]

Weavers are no easy foes so it could be a tough boss battle

[silk dirge]

same

[lone folio]

Also the knowledge gained or "insight" is only after the mount of fay climb which seems to be a test of strength for the Weavers

[silk dirge]

do you think we get a fayforn plush tomorrow

silksong merch drop is going to be goated hopefully

i hope theres more than the 3 items they showed

i hope there will

like the lace plush is cute but idk if its my type of plushie

id rather a bell beast one to go with my fat seal

[muted lantern]

flea plush is a must

is it confirmed yet?

[silk dirge]

we currently only have confirmation of a lace plush, a lace poster and something else i forgot

[silk dirge]

this is whats confirmed

fuck

[foggy fractal]

I doubt we're gonna get much more than this sadly

[silk dirge]

that poster is tuff

i might grab it

[silk dirge]

why

[foggy fractal]

the other drops from fangamer that silksong is a part of all have little new releases

[sinful nimbus]

All Lace no Phantom

[tepid mountain]

Typical.

[foggy fractal]

though that could just be that there's already merch in their respective series

[silk dirge]

yeah

i feel like silksong theyd want to have a lot

that being said i doubt we will get like

a fayforn plush

or old hearts plushies

[foggy fractal]

to clarify I'm talking about these 12

[muted lantern]

big flea plush is needed

[sinful nimbus]

yeah it'll all be generic stuff like sherma and big flea😒

[silk dirge]

big flea beanbag

[sinful nimbus]

(I'd buy a sherma plush)

[foggy fractal]

do any of you know what Hollow Knight's first merch release was like

[silk dirge]

i need my working cogfly drone

[foggy fractal]

could give us an idea on how much we could get tmmrw

[silk dirge]

i wonder if the flea plush will have a soundbox

ik the grub ones do

[muted lantern]

"awooo"

[silk dirge]

that was fast

[muted lantern]

what was

[silk dirge]

scambot

[muted lantern]

Oh i didn't even see it

[silk dirge]

also wait wtf lace has cut dialog after widow

[muted lantern]

she does?

what is it?

[silk dirge]

the wiki just keeps adding more and more cut dialog

[sinful nimbus]

Your words feign more cruelty than your actions suggest 🥶

[foggy fractal]

tuff

[silk dirge]

"deep under the kingdom" is interesting

bellhart is certainly not deep under the kingdom

i wonder if widow originally was somewhere else?

[sinful nimbus]

Could just be about the Citadel

[silk dirge]

"where songs are but a whisper" is interesting tho

that doesnt sound like any regular part of the kingdom

[unique canopy]

Lines up with the cut idea of the old hearts being in the present day instead of needing the elegy to get them in the past. So "the kingdom" would just be the Citadel. Even Bellhart would be outside it, which itself would explain why Widow would bother stringing them all up to begin with.

[sinful nimbus]

i mean in comparison to the Citadel I wouldn't really bat an eye at that dialogue

[silk dirge]

also the wiki uses cut mort dialog for the shard bundle page lmao 😭

[pseudo raptor]

The lack of regard for GMS' fanatic is a little interesting

[visual glacier]

Do we really

Omg

Working on it!

[unique canopy]

No keep it it's funny

[visual glacier]

Better than fandom at least

[silk dirge]

yes

[silk dirge]

this is cut dialog

[visual glacier]

Yeah I see

[pseudo raptor]

Forge Daughter's description is good if you wanna switch

[silk dirge]

tho idk why they cut mort selling shard bundled

[visual glacier]

I’m asking if this was intended and if it was, why?

[silk dirge]

i have no clue

ping a wiki person

[visual glacier]

I’m a wiki person

I asked in the Wiki Server

[silk dirge]

cool

also have they investigated the vaultborn journal entry

[visual glacier]

Yeah

[silk dirge]

apparently the special dialog if they are released automatically in act 3 is back

but idk

[visual glacier]

Apparently it’s a beta thing?

[silk dirge]

i havent tested myself

[visual glacier]

I’m not positive

[silk dirge]

i see

[ornate pier]

I think they don't log changes in betas

On pages

[silk dirge]

yeah

[visual glacier]

We don’t other than the updates page

[ornate pier]

Yeah

[silk dirge]

anyways considering what hornet does with shell shards yeah the cut mort dialog probably makes sense

but its still cut so

[visual glacier]

I like architect’s dialogue for it

It’s either theirs or forge daughters when we change it

[silk dirge]

hornet apparently can just turn shell shards into whatever material she wants

honestly quite incredible

like theres some tools im curious how the fuck is hornet making these out of shell shards

flintslate i think she probably is just polishing the flintgems with them

[visual glacier]

It should be fixed now

[silk dirge]

or maybe somehow turning shell shards into flintgem

yup

thank you

[visual glacier]

We are also discussing adding the hornet statue and growstone to the navbar

[silk dirge]

hornet statue 😭

[finite cave]

yes i played the game through tiktok videos

[pseudo raptor]

Why did you heart that

[silk dirge]

who tf thinks sister splinter is a hb

[finite cave]

i like all replies

[silk dirge]

what is this person cooking

sister splinter is just a massive stickbug

[visual glacier]

What’s their source for that lol

[unique canopy]

cuz she's up on the ceiling so she's higher than Hornet

[finite cave]

and fotf😭😭

[snow sonnet]

What did Sister Splinter do to even get on there

[finite cave]

fotf is just a big effigy with the cult leader inside

[finite cave]

threw hands with nyleth or sumn

[visual glacier]

Fayforn I can see the arguement but there’s not enough evidence

[silk dirge]

also the whole point of first sinner is the weavers ARE NOT divine did this person just never see that

[finite cave]

that whole comment section is full of " FAYFORN IS IMPLIED TO BE A HIGHER BEING!!!! "

[visual glacier]

She’s goated but mysterious

[finite cave]

i'm getting jumped by 30 tiktok fans

[silk dirge]

like if you think sister splinter is a hb then like every boss is a hb now lol

[foggy fractal]

that's on you for being on tiktok in the first place

[finite cave]

same people who will tell you the lifeblood creature is 100% a higher being

[silk dirge]

godhome logic

[snow sonnet]

Godseeker mindset of considering vengefly king and MMC as gods

[visual glacier]

I’m lifeblood creature HB supporter but at least I have reasoning for that

[finite cave]

" Oh yeah you beat the fuck out of pv? I dont really care get out asshole "
" VENGELFY KING WOW😍😍😍😍 SUCH A GREAT GOD😍😍😍😍 "

[visual glacier]

It’s definitely not 100%

[unique canopy]

(I actually wouldn't be surprised if TC's internal definition of a higher being is much less restrictive than what fans have been assuming, but Sister Splinter still isn't a higher being anyway)

[silk dirge]

i mean the shade cloak dude is called a hb in game files but we dont use those

[finite cave]

his dn dialogue is weird

[visual glacier]

Nyleth also isn’t one, that idea comes from her being similar to unn. The difference is that unn actually used dream magic

[foggy fractal]

true that, we just don't have the info to make a criteria that would define what is and isn't a higher being

[mild adder]

Unn is my snail goat

[finite cave]

nyleth's death only got rid of the protection on shellwood too

[edgy nebula]

tbf you dont need to be related to dreams to be a hb

but i agree nyleth isnt one

[finite cave]

the splinters and the wood wasps slipped in when she died

[visual glacier]

Yeah but unn is confirmed

[finite cave]

that's it

her kids didnt die

the wildlife didnt die

they just had a new tyrant😭😭

[visual glacier]

I don’t think the wasps did

[silk dirge]

the biggest argument for fayforn not being a hb is the fact she has so many children

[finite cave]

fair that's just hc

[silk dirge]

like if fayforn is a hb then mount fay is fucking the most powerful region in pharloom lol

[finite cave]

the pale king's basement:

[unique canopy]

...how many do Pale King and White Lady have together?

[visual glacier]

We don’t know for 100% sure that the driftlins are Fayforn children only like 90%

[silk dirge]

oh yeah true

[sinful nimbus]

idk how you could argue Fayforn is more powerful than all the old hearts combined

[silk dirge]

good enough for me

its like basically confirmed

[visual glacier]

Fayforn is the “fell heart of frost”

[finite cave]

the pale king had some weird wyrm magic dawg😭 he managed to make herrah (a weaver) pregnant and was able to get rid of the white lady's weird urge to spread her roots or whatever for a bit

what the FUCK is up with thqt

[sinful nimbus]

He never did the latter

[finite cave]

she had to bind herself up after when they came back

[visual glacier]

Yeah she did that to herself

[sinful nimbus]

The bindings are to reduce her shame she feels for her urges and the vessel project

[visual glacier]

I don’t think that’s true

[sinful nimbus]

"There is some shame I feel from my own part in the deed and this method guarantees it cease"

[finite cave]

it's true

she mentions her weird root inclination to expand or wjatever

[finite cave]

and this

[visual glacier]

I thought she was referring to stopping her breeding

[sinful nimbus]

What do you think her part in the deed was

[finite cave]

btw unrelated but this also links to greyroot a little

[visual glacier]

No

[finite cave]

i wonder how theyre related

[sinful nimbus]

The breeding is part of the equation but its not like she literally can't control herself

[finite cave]

i'd ve surprised if rhey werent

[visual glacier]

We have no confirmation that greyroot is root or blackwyrm is wyrm

[finite cave]

uh

[mild adder]

My great conspiracy theory is that the twisted child ending results in a pale root being like white lady

[finite cave]

yeah mayhaps

[mild adder]

And that’s how pale root beings come to be

[finite cave]

the little shit probably kills everything rather then infect it

how fid that duplicate

[mild adder]

Pale root beings probably don’t have any need to actually kill or parasitize since they are virtually immortal in lifespan and apparently can reproduce like mad, this is ofcourse assuming that all pale root beings function like whit lady

Plot twist: the twisted child ending is canon and the white lady is a time traveling pale being that resulted from the ending

https://tenor.com/view/the-universe-tim-and-eric-mind-blown-mind-blown-meme-mind-explosion-mind-explosion-meme-gif-18002878

[silk dirge]

im still trying to understand shell shards lol

how tf can these be turned into so many materials

[unique canopy]

Hornet is just that good

[blissful harbor]

hornets been practicing alchemy a lot

her transmutation is level 100

[silk dirge]

my thinking is any material without an explicit materium entry can be transmuted

so hornet can transmute shell shards into coral crust

which makes sense since crustcrags in the memorium drop shell shards i think

[narrow horizon]

..higher beings???

[silk dirge]

man i feel so bad for flick the fixer now 😭

[visual glacier]

They are made of various materials

[muted lantern]

I imagine shell shards are justa generic repair material good for building and mending things, i imagine hornet being able to turn them into bombs is just a gameplay contrivance. Or maybe she has a surplus of the basic materials needed and shell shards are just the last ingredient.

[silk dirge]

i feel like a good explanation could be silk can transmute stuff

that feels like a good explanation

[muted lantern]

I don't think thats really implied by the game though

[silk dirge]

i think hornet might just be good at crafting tbh

she can probably make shell shards mimic any material she wants

[foggy fractal]

why is she good at crafting ?

is she smart ?

[silk dirge]

other than like void or some shit

[muted lantern]

Hornet might also be recycling the weapons she throws and just patching them with shards

[silk dirge]

weavers taught her probably

[muted lantern]

it's her dads buzzsaw genes

[silk dirge]

i mean shell shards can take different appearances tbh

like the pristine core is shell shards

but it looks different than a shard bundle

[mild adder]

It’s just a game mechanic like the charms in the first game

[silk dirge]

so i think probably a skilled crafter like hornet can probably make them mimic materials

[silk dirge]

i doubt it considering silksong tries to make stuff make more sense than hk

[muted lantern]

Oh damn, if shell shards can turn into something so metallic then maybe its a unique property of the shards? that they can be made into a metal like material? maybe shells just have a lot of iron in them.

[blissful harbor]

anyways i think the real answer is “shell” is vague enough to mean anything

[mild adder]

Ok I will say it simply either all metal is made from shells or all bugs are metallic

[silk dirge]

yeah probably

[mild adder]

Shell shards are just an abstract representation of resources used to build disposable tools by hornet

[blissful harbor]

like for instance, more metal based tools would need shell shards from cogwork bugs, but because obvious gameplay reason
all bugs drop just general shards

[silk dirge]

i can imagine shard bundles are probably made of various materials

[mild adder]

Rather than having 50 individual different resources it’s boiled down to shell shards

[muted lantern]

do cogworks drop shell shards?

i dont remember

[visual glacier]

Yeah I think so

[blissful harbor]

pretty sure they do

[mild adder]

They do

[silk dirge]

honestly the best explanation i think is just hornet is good at crafting and can make materials mimic eachother

and stuff like the flintslate which is rare materials she is just polishing probably

[mild adder]

Yes because you can make fuel from shell shards, looks at self moving buzz saws

Again it’s just a gameplay mechanic abstract shorthand

[muted lantern]

I kinda read it then as shell shards can probably be purified into a metallic material, like having residual metals that build up in bugs shells. kinda like having iron in your blood but more

[silk dirge]

yeah

[muted lantern]

which would be sensible as most tools are metal

how it works for pimpillos however uhh

[mild adder]

Except bug shells are usually portrayed more as bone, not metal

[muted lantern]

as i said it could be purified into metal, not already is metal

[silk dirge]

you have iron in your bones

or blood

idk im not a biology major

[frigid belfry]

was that true?

[pseudo raptor]

The craftmetal tools would require this

[silk dirge]

craftmetal i think she is just making a mold for the tools

[mild adder]

The amount of human material you’d need to make something as a sword is absurd, not to mention all the process of refining it

[muted lantern]

but yeah as pogseal pointed out this is technically made of shellshards

explicitly called "shell" shards in even this items description

leading me to think they are all the same material

[silk dirge]

yeah

[mild adder]

Sigh

[silk dirge]

its fun to come up with explanations for shit other than just gameplay

[mild adder]

Except none of them make sense than “hornet is a full metal alchemist brotherhood alchemist”

Metals are clearly metals and the reason you get shards from cogwork hearts is gameplay reason

As was stated prior, instead of having ton of different resources it was boiled down to one

It’s an abstract to all the stuff hornet gathers along the way

[silk dirge]

considering how rosaries dont drop from every bug thats gonna be a no from me lol

[frigid belfry]

why cant it be both a gameplay and universal reason

pristine core does look exactly like the shell shard texture

it does make sense that more metallic forms can be created from shells

[mild adder]

Ok riddle me this Batman, how do shell shards turn into Volt bolas

[silk dirge]

silk shit probably

soul can do electric stuff

look at wingmoulds

[mild adder]

Uh uh that’s why it costs silk to use

[silk dirge]

and silk is soul

[mild adder]

Oh wait

It doesn’t

[silk dirge]

yeah bc hornet makes them at a bench lol

[frigid belfry]

uhh the metal connectors on each end, the glassy stuff its convenience for gameplay

[visual glacier]

Wingmoulds use silk runes, not soul lol

[frigid belfry]

they use both

[blissful harbor]

silk uses soul

[lapis creek]

riddle me this batman why does my hair get all clingy when i rub a balloon on it

[blissful harbor]

it’s the same thing

[visual glacier]

Static electricity

[frigid belfry]

"False fly with a rune etched shell. A tortured mix of soul and void is caged within"

[visual glacier]

Or sum

[visual glacier]

I see

[frigid belfry]

voltvessels in your hair

[lapis creek]

yes

[silk dirge]

glass is probably just shell shards again

[lapis creek]

the shell shards are just for the glass

[silk dirge]

that doesnt seem that far of a stretch

[pseudo raptor]

Yeah flea brew bottle uses shell shards to fix

[lapis creek]

the active ingredient in voltvessels is baked into all matter by default

[mild adder]

Also counter argument: arena bugs don’t drop anything
Which was a pure gameplay decision

[blissful harbor]

cheese wtf are u talking about

[lapis creek]

didnt they change that

[silk dirge]

ok well arenas are kinda weird for that anyway

[lapis creek]

my question is how hornet can make a bomb

that's impressive

[frigid belfry]

silk

[silk dirge]

a lot of tools have red thread on them

i wonder if hornet makes that

[frigid belfry]

silk can do anything in this universe thats my get out of jail free card

[mild adder]

“When in doubt blame silk”

[pseudo raptor]

Anyway I'm inclined to believe normal bug shell can't get reforged with heat, while Pharloom metalworks is stated to be advanced due to the readily available heat source

[odd yarrow]

Hear me out, hornet is stronger than ghost

[timber pond]

wispfire shit from where you get pimpillow ig

[blissful harbor]

it can literally manifest a fucking super flower from a memory

there is nothing silk cant do

[lapis creek]

actually i guess voltvessels dont even have to be charged by static electricity

[silk dirge]

like surely hornet can just produce this red thread

[frigid belfry]

why didnt hornet just manifest 10 flowers? is she stupid?

[mild adder]

That’s not silk

That literally soul

[silk dirge]

its the exact same on all those tools

[lapis creek]

maybe when hornet found them in the memorium they came with a generator or a large battery

[frigid belfry]

silk is soul

[mild adder]

No silk is a material infused with soul

[static narwhal]

Silk is soul. It's just the way weavers manipulate soul

[odd yarrow]

She only remembered 1 flower

[frigid belfry]

silk is literally said a form of soul

we see soul transformed into silk via silkflies

[frigid belfry]

remember the same flower just ten times?

[mild adder]

The reason why silk is coveted is because only the weavers can readily make it and it’s infused with soul.

[frigid belfry]

hornet is stupid

[blissful harbor]

maternium implies silk is woven soul

not all silk is soul

[frigid belfry]

silk is an application of soul that (from what we see) only the weavers and gms are able to produce

[odd yarrow]

You literally had to murder 3 rulers in their prime for just 1 flower

[blissful harbor]

but in most cases in game, especially with hornet, it’s soul

[frigid belfry]

murder 30

[silk dirge]

do we think hornet can just make red thread with silk

[unique canopy]

No cost too great

[mild adder]

Soul on its own cannot be sustained unless put in a jar or any other container, silk is such a natural container by the weavers, weavers are literal soul battery makers

[silk dirge]

im tempted to believe that

[blissful harbor]

yes

[silk dirge]

considering she weaved her own cloak i think

[lapis creek]

paint

[static narwhal]

I like to think she passes it through a pool of dye or something

[lapis creek]

or blood

[odd yarrow]

If she murdered 3 rulers in the past, the future rulers would be dead so she can't murder them again

[silk dirge]

like we clearly know silk can be woven into clothes

[lapis creek]

also the shamans are dead

[silk dirge]

since first sinner does it

[lapis creek]

for her it's white

[silk dirge]

so hornet can probably just make red thread

[lapis creek]

she did not have any blood on hand

[silk dirge]

which is probably part of the pimpillo

[frigid belfry]

murder the ones in hallownest and steel city

[odd yarrow]

Hornet didn't make her cloak the pinestress did

[silk dirge]

and then the inside is probably just making shell shards super combustable

[silk dirge]

what

[odd yarrow]

You can't go to hallownest

[silk dirge]

pinstress wove the flexile spines yes

hornet weaves her cloak in red memory tho

[lapis creek]

i thought the red stuff for the pimpillo was laid out around the site where it was built

[frigid belfry]

use silk to teleport

hornet is stupid

[silk dirge]

maybe but theres red thread on other tools as well

[static narwhal]

No. the seamstress put the spines in but she didn't make it... She has the cloak before she even meets her

[silk dirge]

that i think is probably hornet

[lapis creek]

groundbreaking stuff guys

[mild adder]

Hornet should have made a rail gun with a spool of silk and a handful of shell shards and just blow entire cradle to bits, after all those two things are all you need

[lapis creek]

maybe if silksong came out in 2029 we would have a more intricate crafting tree

[odd yarrow]

That is wrong she said she the pinestress would use her silk and make a stronger one if hornet would get the spines

[static narwhal]

Closest we get is one of the silkshots, so maybe if she had more time she might've been able to lol

[lapis creek]

hornet would have to buy alcohol from creige to make molotov cocktails

[mild adder]

Except she hasn’t made that, either she repaired it according to a manual or had two other people repair it for her

[odd yarrow]

What are you on

[lapis creek]

pardon me

[static narwhal]

She says she will modify her cloak, not make a new one

[silk dirge]

anyways hornet can definitely do special stuff with materials considering there is no red material anywhere near cogflies and hornet just

personalizes it

[odd yarrow]

Still

[silk dirge]

important tc ama question

[lapis creek]

blood

[mild adder]

Also if hornet’s cloak made out of silk, why doesn’t she consume it to heal when on deaths door?

[edgy nebula]

hornet straight makes a red cloak in red memory

[mild adder]

If she can just make a new one

[frigid belfry]

would you strip if you were getting jumped?

exactly, checkmate

[edgy nebula]

she needs to preserve her aura with the cloak

[silk dirge]

why does first sinner not when we clearly see her doing it

[blissful harbor]

she’s not first weaver level

[edgy nebula]

also her cloak holds all her shit shed just throw that all away if she did

[silk dirge]

no she has a toolbag

[odd yarrow]

Shr has the toolbag in her cloak

[static narwhal]

She might need to unravel it if she wants to use it to heal

[mild adder]

Listen man, I would gladly go naked if I could heal the four bullet holes in my stomach with the sacrifice of my clothes

[odd yarrow]

Remember when they take her stuff in the slab

[silk dirge]

unravel?

[edgy nebula]

that’s for tools, her cloak has pouches inside of it so it holds stuff

[silk dirge]

say that again

[edgy nebula]

unravel as in the hit indie game about the yarn creature and the grandma?!

[silk dirge]

what does she put in those pockets

[frigid belfry]

more cloaks

[edgy nebula]

probably money

[silk dirge]

i think thats a cut item description from 2019 demo

[static narwhal]

Oh taht si bigger than I thought it would be

[frigid belfry]

yo its the old penitent

[odd yarrow]

It's the unraveled

[silk dirge]

how does hornet hold shell shards and rosaries when in the slab escape sequence

[blissful harbor]

ties them to her

[edgy nebula]

she eats them and spits them out

[muted lantern]

unravelled isnt even romino.... not even that theory applies here...

[mild adder]

It’s up her [redacted]

[odd yarrow]

She has a slot in her skull for rosaries

[blissful harbor]

i’m sure she could make an impromptu pouch of silk

[lapis creek]

do enemies there even drop rosaries

[static narwhal]

Does she? I didn't notice any currency in there, but I've only done the slab once

[silk dirge]

you can kill some guards

[odd yarrow]

In the slab?

[silk dirge]

they drop rosaries

[odd yarrow]

Yeah

[mild adder]

I wish rosaries dropped enemies instead of other way around

[lapis creek]

oh i thought they just dropped shell shards

[edgy nebula]

what is the lore behind this INSANE aura from moorwing

[foggy fractal]

if you rearrange the letters in unravelled... you get old penitent... and we know that old penitent = romino. checkmate.

[frigid belfry]

im joking with the stupid theory of how people think the romino is the old penitent

[static narwhal]

Saw soul master do it in the previous game and wanted to do it too

[visual glacier]

True

[muted lantern]

when you hit the rosary pile and 400 primal aspids spawn

[odd yarrow]

So every time you buy something 100 crows spawn?

[mild adder]

Yes

[edgy nebula]

i heard that the letters in crust king khann spell peak

[mild adder]

Every time you pick up a rosary enemy spawns

[frigid belfry]

thats cool i actually never realized moorwing do that

[odd yarrow]

Imagine buying the multi binder needing to kill 850 squatcraws

[frigid belfry]

remind me of the fac that you can see nuu's silhouette from outside halfway homes window on the attic

[mild adder]

Somebody should make a mod for that

[lapis creek]

do you think it hurts his feet to plant them on the spikes

[edgy nebula]

he does it once or twice in the areas before his boss arena, wish he pulled a soul master and came from the background in his arena ngl

[mild adder]

Also crust king khan owned a crusty burger before he retired and became a warlord

[edgy nebula]

i mean, his feet turn into buzzsaws so i dont think it's a problem for him

his feet are sharper so it cancels out

[mild adder]

Old penitent is actually the pale king

[odd yarrow]

That is actually smart cuz a negative times a negative is positive

[mild adder]

Pale king is old and he is remorseful about the abyss incident

[pseudo raptor]

Looking for slackers to eat

[edgy nebula]

i love how they just included moorwing having blade feet, there's no reason why theyd add that but they did

[mild adder]

Well he was supposed to hunt bugs

[edgy nebula]

yeah but he can just eat them

[mild adder]

But where is the fun in that

[edgy nebula]

we already know he eats them after his captors have died

[mild adder]

You need to terrify them first

[pseudo raptor]

Probably for the bird of prey talon thing

[mild adder]

Also to give Elden ring players flashback to the blade hawks

[frigid belfry]

moorwing is the pale king

[edgy nebula]

fair yeah

[odd yarrow]

How

[mild adder]

Moorwing is the pale kings you get brother the moor king

[frigid belfry]

buzzsaws on legs, pale king has buzzsaws

genius

[static narwhal]

o-o don't remind me. Been replaying with a mod

[odd yarrow]

So? Ghost isn't hornet bc they have feet

[stray fog]

He's joking

[mild adder]

Ghost is hornet, always was, after silksong hornet fuses with lace, looses her memory and becomes ghost and goes through a time travel anomaly in the wastes back to the hallow nest

[silk dirge]

ok you know i wonder if silk can be turned into regular thread

[odd yarrow]

The lace and fourth chorus are related

[frigid belfry]

im completely serious this is a perfect theory and i am not laughing

[trail wagon]

There's nothing really saying we won't get another HK game

[silk dirge]

that seems likely with first sinner

[static narwhal]

Hornet is already half Xehanort

[silk dirge]

her dress doesnt glow

which if its made of silk it would probably

[stray fog]

Yep

[trail wagon]

More like demi-gods?

[pseudo raptor]

Hallownest used weaver silk as writing paper later on iirc

[trail wagon]

Did they? I don't remember that

[mild adder]

Yes and that’s why hornet doesn’t know how to read

[solar tapir]

They did

[mild adder]

Lemm says it

[pseudo raptor]

Lemm quote about lost records from rain

[trail wagon]

what I do remember is this

[mild adder]

All the silk was lost due to moisture

[trail wagon]

AS writing paper specifically? I didn't know that wow

[mild adder]

Well not paper

Just a medium to write on

[edgy nebula]

so many mites

[mild adder]

So imagine silk scrolls and stuff

[pseudo raptor]

• Tarmites, drapemites

[trail wagon]

I love them

[silk dirge]

it was probably very weak silk tbh

[edgy nebula]

inferior mites

[silk dirge]

bc hornets dress doesnt get destroyed by rain

[mild adder]

Moorwing is actually Dracula

[edgy nebula]

it's really weird how every mite has a different color scheme

[mild adder]

Hornets dress can survive lava

[silk dirge]

yeah

[mild adder]

It’s basically indestructible

[silk dirge]

it fucking survives yarnaby

[stray fog]

Shes wearing hulk's underwear

[mild adder]

That’s why hornet should use it to create a weapon to surpass metal gear

[pseudo raptor]

Silk gets recycled by cremating bodies yeah

[trail wagon]

Oh actually

[mild adder]

Silk gear solid, silk eater

[trail wagon]

Who was talking about runes yesterday?

[static narwhal]

Show her Ahtal-ka from MHGU

[silk dirge]

ok all this talk begs the question

why is hornets favorite color red

[solar tapir]

A thin one maybe. Or even not infused by soul

[blissful harbor]

one of the benefits of having a giant fucking sewing needle and silk powers id imagine is your clothes aren’t a concern, i don’t think her cloak is tough more so thst she could just repair it whenever

[trail wagon]

where horne bloo

[mild adder]

Try to sow anything with a sword and let me know how that went

[silk dirge]

i guess maybe its bc red was the color of hallownest weavers

[foggy fractal]

less to do with what her favourite colour is more so the weaver connection

[silk dirge]

yeah

[stray fog]

I thought favourite colours were arbitrary

[mild adder]

It’s red because she is the Dante to ghost’s Vergil

[foggy fractal]

cuz y'know, they're all wanna be red for some reason

[edgy nebula]

my favorite color is actually really important to my lore

[silk dirge]

weaving your own cloak is probably a rite of passage for weavers or smth

[trail wagon]

what if it's just because it's the color of Hornet's memory?

[silk dirge]

the weaver we see in hk has a red cloak

[trail wagon]

None of these rooms are actually red

[visual glacier]

The weavers in hk have red cloak

[trail wagon]

Oh well

[tender tartan]

Yo, I'ma idiot for not realizing this sooner.

In hollow knight, Hornet's cloak is dimmed red, and everything else is dimmed. But in Pharloom everything is bright bc it's going to die but not yet. Hallownest already died.

ACT 3 SPOILERS:

||But when GMS screams from the abyss, it dims all colors, so meaning Abyss took over and killed Hallownest||

[trail wagon]

I thought I had the best explanation

[visual glacier]

No it’s just because silksong has more saturated lighting

[pale narwhal]

that second one is fairly red

[trail wagon]

Which is that TK is void and the void causes saturation to be lower

Which is what happens when GMS screams

[stray fog]

Fire theory

[foggy fractal]

vespa isn't completely red, nor is whitelady
Weavers would still look red without the filter

[trail wagon]

Yes, true

[trail wagon]

Not sure if Herrah was red

[mild adder]

If void consumed hallow nest we’d see void motes everywhere and clumps of bodies and vessel ghosts

It’s just supposed to represent a fallen kingdom

[visual glacier]

Idk why hornet would just imagine that

[muted lantern]

what are these things that are all over the underworks, they kinda look like unpainted cogworks or shell shard things that we can break off of walls

[trail wagon]

The Knight is void and Hornet isn't

[mild adder]

Correct

[low steppe]

How does Hornet’s cloak not get torn to shreds when Yarnaby uses her extricator on her?

[blissful harbor]

they are like packs of those things in deep docks

[foggy fractal]

containers

[blissful harbor]

like storage of whatever they are

[static narwhal]

Prob just storage "crates" and cranes

[trail wagon]

You're right actually, but I thought these were just rocks similar to the ones from the docks

[mild adder]

https://tenor.com/view/dope-gif-1211204957743195431

[trail wagon]

Yeah, so TK's vision is voided 🙂

[low steppe]

Hornet never lifts her cloak, how do the steel spines pierce her shell but not her cloak?

[tender tartan]

Holup, hear me out. Another theory:

If abyss is what takes over when everything is dead, and when there's color, it's not dead, Abyss is death.

But how would abyss take over living people???

[mild adder]

Sigh

Why isn’t it just black and white then?

[trail wagon]

Welll

[muted lantern]

I imagine hornet just mends her cloak whenever she binds or at benches, since it's made of her silk anyway

[static narwhal]

She could probably mend it herself. I'm sure it's not shown for the same reason we don't see the nail change whenever we get an upgrade

[trail wagon]

For the same reason it's not black and white when GMS screams from the Abyss

Cause not fun

[mild adder]

It’s literally just the art direction TC went for in the game my dude.

[upbeat fog]

Lugoli must have done some foul things to get kicked out considering that the citadel is fine with many other foul things

[silk dirge]

hornets cloak might just be extremely strong tbh

[trail wagon]

I know but there's ALWAYS a lore implication in everything! 😠

[tender tartan]

Considering she cooked muck maggots and roaches, I see why she did get kicked out

[mild adder]

Lugoli probably wanted to eat the big fat bug that’s the “master”

[trail wagon]

Perhaps cannibalism?

Btw, who's this?

[edgy nebula]

the great gourmand

[trail wagon]

I don't think it's even explained properly

[trail wagon]

and why are they there?

[mild adder]

The bug lugoli wanted to eat lol

[trail wagon]

Also I think it's a bit sad they don't have an act 3 exclusive interaction

[unique canopy]

Definitely cannibalism, there are pilgrims, craws, and the judge larva in the storage room

[trail wagon]

Is there any evidence?

[silk dirge]

real quick question do we think by weaving her cloak hornet proved herself more weaver than wyrm lol

[mild adder]

It was revealed to me in a dream and my uncle works at team curry

[upbeat fog]

That was considered a specialty and that is why you have to get some for that one quest

[trail wagon]

Honestly I would only consider Pilgrims to be cannibalism, the rest.. well.. I don't think they're the same species

[static narwhal]

Not everything NEEDS to have a full wiki page detailing every aspect of every persons life. Dude is probably just some noble

[unique canopy]

At the very least the judge larva would get Jim kicked out for religious crimes

[trail wagon]

I didn't ay there had to be, I'm just asking if there's anything about them

[mild adder]

He is a big fat boy that likes to eat

That’s his entire life

[trail wagon]

True

[trail wagon]

I mean Hornet murders craws and then the Halfway Home guy builds a huge scarecrow using their skin 😭

[upbeat fog]

He spooked me a little when he first appeared

[unique canopy]

That would actually be the funnier reason

[mild adder]

What other thing to scare your enemies with than the flayed corpses of their family

[unique canopy]

Cannibalism? Fine. Interfering in religious affairs? Get the fuck out.

[trail wagon]

True

[muted lantern]

for any of you writers out there this is what they call wrenches in pharloom

[upbeat fog]

Well the craws had it coming

[mild adder]

Craws are totally not birds they are bugs

[trail wagon]

TO be fair, jokes aside, I think it's more likely, since the Weavers didn't seem to care too much about pilgrims

[silk dirge]

ok wait i just found something really interesting

is hornet providing the silk to seamstress

[trail wagon]

Well I think everything in HK is a bug

[silk dirge]

the silk in the cutscene glows

[trail wagon]

Pretty much

But like they're based off of birds

[mild adder]

That’s the joke I am making

[trail wagon]

Im sorry I parried the joke

[muted lantern]

are drapeflies and drapemites related or just a similar species

[edgy nebula]

the great gourmand seems pretty mindless

[mild adder]

I do like the theory that herrah was an ascended drape mite weaver

[silk dirge]

1:16 https://youtu.be/wjo-dICMPmM?si=UN1-GgbWXB7mj_pF

the silk glows

[trail wagon]

I mean frankly considering what they degust...

[silk dirge]

i think hornet is providing it

[upbeat fog]

I think that is because silk and the soul are connected in some way

[silk dirge]

seamstress wouldnt have access to magic silk

[trail wagon]

Proving what?

[upbeat fog]

Yes but hornet does

[silk dirge]

silk for seamstress to weave flexile spines into drifters cloak

[muted lantern]

are drapeflies and drapemites the same species?

[trail wagon]

yeah

well, maybe they do it together

which would mean Hornet would weave naked

hmmm although there's nothing saying Hornet can't use her skills without her cloak, even though we can't do that in game

[silk dirge]

she probably does something similar with fayforn

[trail wagon]

Why did Fayforn have to break the tuning fork?

[upbeat fog]

I’m not completely sure but it might be like how some genders of some animals have wings and the other doesn’t

[mild adder]

Yes

[silk dirge]

mossgrubs are probably like that

[trail wagon]

Probably not 👀

One is a fly and the other is a mite

[edgy nebula]

love the mite lifecycle

[muted lantern]

the thing with drapemites is that they are said to be cloth covered implying the cloths not part of them, whilst its clearly the wings of flies

[trail wagon]

It's probably not their lifecycle though 🤓

[muted lantern]

I don't think moorwing is a mite

its wings are different

[trail wagon]

Fluttermites are said to be a slightly different branch

[silk dirge]

the journal calls it a "winged mite beast"

[trail wagon]

No, they are, it's said in their journal entry

[edgy nebula]

the journal calls it a mite-beast, it's very likely a mite, just bred to be different

[muted lantern]

oh wait its called mite beast just checked lol

mb

[silk dirge]

it was special bred by the citadel

[upbeat fog]

I don’t know it is just a theory… A GAME THEORY

[muted lantern]

its odd that its wings are so different still

[trail wagon]

Moorwing is a mite bred specifically to hunt the negligent workers

[mild adder]

My game theory is that silksong was just a dream and hornet is just giggling along with karmelita in the ruins of hallownest for eternity

[trail wagon]

Nooo GAME THEORIES about HK are an abomination

[upbeat fog]

I was just making a joke

[trail wagon]

I really hope there won't be a silksong video

[trail wagon]

Yeah, I get that

[mild adder]

I wonder what comes next after silksong

[trail wagon]

Steelheart 👀

[mild adder]

I don’t want them to milk the hollow knight world forever

A new thing could be good too

[trail wagon]

I think they won't

[mild adder]

A new setting and stuff

[upbeat fog]

A pure vessel game

[mild adder]

Eh

[silk dirge]

that might actually be the name tbh

steelheart

[mild adder]

Either something to cap it off and have HK be a trilogy or just start a new world and game

[upbeat fog]

He is free now

[trail wagon]

Fluttermites are less common, and apparently they are like a different branch of mites

[trail wagon]

I really hope for the third final game

[mild adder]

PV deserves a retirement home not another meat grinder

[edgy nebula]

in the pv game everything will do TRIPLE damage

[mild adder]

Not to mention half the time he is quantum stated to be in the void

Tbh the “two damage” thing in silksong is extremely over exaggerated

[upbeat fog]

He is a cool character

[unique canopy]

PV game but it's a management sim while you help rebuild Hallownest

[mild adder]

Ye, and he had a game about him already

I don’t wanna milk memberberries

[trail wagon]

I love the world of silksong

[mild adder]

I want a maggot/roach higher being

The roach king

[upbeat fog]

That was more able the knight pv needs his redemption

[trail wagon]

OMG BROCHOLIO

[trail wagon]

Bilewater expansion?? 😭

[mild adder]

What redemption, he didn’t do anything wrong

[trail wagon]

What did he do? 🙁

[mild adder]

It wasn’t his fault that pk was too much of a good dad and was unable to control himself

[muted lantern]

hmmm, reading the text sherma might actually be a kid. Hornet refers to him as little one in the same manner she uses to refer to broodling. It seems like she usually uses the terms little one, young one, and child when talking to kids.

[mild adder]

Though I most certainly don’t want to play lace in the next game, I’d unironically rather play zote than lace

[trail wagon]

I have a better argument

[upbeat fog]

I more want to see him go through and move on from hallownest

[trail wagon]

He wants to go "splishy splashy in the holy baths"

[mild adder]

Hornet is older than almost everything In pharloom

[trail wagon]

Not to say I wouldn't, but still

[mild adder]

Yea, he goes in the void in the DMN ending

Pretty moved on I say

[muted lantern]

yeah but she only seems to refer to actual kids with these terms. at least characters she percieves as such, like gilly, nuu, broodling, lace, sherma, runt etc

[wary zinc]

why does sinner lack arms? weavers normally have arms, widow does at least

[trail wagon]

I think he may do that in ETV too, since we see a cutscene where it's implied he is also in Shadelord

[trail wagon]

They don't?

[upbeat fog]

Dmn which ending is that

[muted lantern]

like even though pilby seems quite young hornet refers to him as sir

[wary zinc]

do they not?

[mild adder]

And shakra refers to hornet as a child even though hornet is countless years her senior

[mild adder]

Dream no more

[wary zinc]

then why does widow have arms

[pseudo raptor]

She does have arms

Sinner

[trail wagon]

She's a weirdo

[pseudo raptor]

Phase change animation shows them

[upbeat fog]

I mean what happened in that one again

[trail wagon]

Most of them don't seem to have them

[muted lantern]

shakra and hornet are different people, im referring to what hornet refers to children as, not the universe as a whole.

[vocal epoch]

O

[wary zinc]

the one on the right has 6 limbs, and weavers are known to have 4 legs. thoughts?

[trail wagon]

actually no

[mild adder]

It’s ending 3, go in hk’s brain, kill radiance with siblings

[foggy fractal]

that's starting the fight not phase change

[trail wagon]

I think they have different numbers of limbs

[upbeat fog]

Ok thanks

[trail wagon]

Yeah, but she's naked, where are her arms?

[pseudo raptor]

Phase change/fakeout death, not the start

[upbeat fog]

Do we know the true ending though

[trail wagon]

We don't really see

Here she has 6 limbs

I have a theory

[mild adder]

I need a dating sim purely dedicated to the first sinner

[trail wagon]

Probably they're like Angel Dust

They can tuck in their limbs

Similarly to GMS

She only has two arms

[foggy fractal]

first sinner ?

[muted lantern]

so yeah shermas probably a kid, at least hornet thinks hes one.

[foggy fractal]

the sprites suggest otherwise

[trail wagon]

The weavers

[mild adder]

I doubt it

[muted lantern]

why so

[trail wagon]

I think the Weavers may do something similar

[trail wagon]

So GMS actually has 10 (?) limbs??

Like

2 (?) legs and 8 arms

[foggy fractal]

I always thought gms just materializes those arms
weavers seem to just tuck it in a way that shows less

[trail wagon]

Maybe they all tuck them in

[wary zinc]

maybe widows arms are out as part of whatever torture she had prevents her from doing that

[mild adder]

She refers to lace as a child as well and lace is older than any other bug in pharloom and in act 3 Sherma takes on a leadership role and everyone is fine with it

[muted lantern]

The only other character she refers to as little one is broodling, which is like clearly a baby, yes it could be referring to their size, but alongside shermas general behavior he might just be exceptionally young.

[trail wagon]

OH ACTUALLY

She may no longer be able to tuck them in

Because there are pins stuck in her back

And it's said that "her silk was bound useless"

[wary zinc]

silk-manifest arms theory

[foggy fractal]

actually I had this convo before
weavers seem to all have 8 limbs, 4 arms, 4 legs

except for Widow she's consistently shown with only 2 arms

[mild adder]

Weavers are just a bowling ball moved by silk

[wary zinc]

pharlids have 6 legs also

[trail wagon]

Honestly I think either TC didn't really think that through and just made them randomly, or there's some lore reason

[wary zinc]

weird

[trail wagon]

Don't they have 4?

looks like 2

Althought you're right

It looks a bit weird

[muted lantern]

well, lace is described as having the mind and body of a child, explicitly. more of a peter pan situation. but even that aside hornet at least percieves lace as a child, as every other character she refers to as child in place of a title is an actual child, such as nuu or runt. With sherma at least you can argue little one refers to him being small (but she calls pilby sir despite being smaller than sherma, though hes also called little pilgrim in the title that pops up for him.) but with lace its pretty inarguable hornet sees her as a child for the entire game. She keeps calling her it even long after coming to understand laces true nature.

[foggy fractal]

it's not the most apparent thing and it doesn't really matter

[trail wagon]

It does! 🤓

[wary zinc]

yea I was just curious

[foggy fractal]

we are shown a maximum of 8 limbs

which wouldn't be weird

cuz y'know, spiders have 8 limbs irl

[trail wagon]

I personally explain it this way: Lace was designed to be the GMS' daughter, so she is made like a child deliberately, or even if GMS didn't intend to make her child-like, she did. Basically, Lace probably can't really mature, because that's what she was made for

[wary zinc]

I feel like hornet calls them child if they just act like one. as lace is in fact very old

[wary zinc]

and it fits better with being an insult there too

[trail wagon]

I think child can be used both as a way to mock somebody and show their immaturity, and also as an actual description, just like in the real world

[foggy fractal]

widow got her arms ripped off theory lives on

[trail wagon]

In case with Lace though, the description is given by Caretaker, and I don't see any reason for him to insult Lace

[muted lantern]

I agree, currently tho im just examining the perception of how hornet views certain characters based on the patterns in which she titles them.

[trail wagon]

actually ☝️
Her mask was forcefully removed

[foggy fractal]

both could be true

[wary zinc]

isn’t that talking about hearing child’s laughter above the citadel or does he know who he’s talking about

[muted lantern]

I generally see laces eternal childhood as an intentional thing from gms, to attempt to make her never outgrow her mother and always be reliant emotionally as well as physically on the silk.

[pseudo raptor]

Different guy

[trail wagon]

look they're so similar

[wary zinc]

just as fluffy too!

[foggy fractal]

that's humble pilgrim

Sister, sister! Let me confide in you! As I ascended the Citadel's chambers to reach this place, I swear I heard the laughter of a child!

though the point stands that it doesn't read like an insult at all

[trail wagon]

I mean it can also impact one's appearance, apparently

[muted lantern]

The giant spikes on weavers hips are definitly an interesting element

[trail wagon]

The fluff is a cloth though, at least it looks like it

[pseudo raptor]

Side note I like how this one is also very small, thought they're a kid at first

[trail wagon]

There's a cut cutscene showing Widow getting tortured

[foggy fractal]

youch !

[trail wagon]

Yeah, me too. Probably one of the reasons why Phantom was regarded as a failed sibling is because they're too serious ahahahah

[trail wagon]

"...is a child in looks and a mind to match"

[trail wagon]

?

[foggy fractal]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Humble_Pilgrim

[muted lantern]

Hornet doesnt typically give insulting titles (the worst one she gives is creature to widow and that more plays into her not knowing exactly what widow is at first, which is corroborated by her uncertainty when describing her to shakra) hornet typically just gives pretty flat descriptors to characters, like little one, tall one, gilded one, or titles based on their profession, like barkeep or shopkeeper. Even when talking to kratt after he peeps on her who is someone shed have every reason to insult she just calls him flea. Its generally pretty out of character for her to give insulting titles, thats just not who she is. All that aside, the only other characters she refers to as child in such a way, using it in place of a title, are runt and nuu, characters who are both actually kids. At the very least, hornet percieves lace as a child, and this perception persists all the way through act 3 and the games ending.

[trail wagon]

Ohhh okay

[trail wagon]

And also I think Hornet despises Widow a lot, because she is a fanatic

She has more sympathy for Lace on the other hand

She even says "I will claim her back. This one... the dark shall not take."

I don't think she would just call her names hahahaha

[trail wagon]

I will take a screenshot and use it when somebody brings up "ACTUALLY Lace is not a child"

[muted lantern]

Plus as people often say the term child as referring to lineage (which it is used on occasion in this way in the game by other characters, though typically in specific context like saying "child of," etc but not always.) its used more often to dictate actual youth, especially when hornets speaking. When shes actually referencing laces lineage she refers to her as pale child or pale one.

[foggy fractal]

oh yeah speaking of

[muted lantern]

this is why im wondering if sherma the best boy is a kid because hornet uses the same terminology as she uses for broodling which is obvs a kid.

[foggy fractal]

I think I saw some post on reddit or tiktok using the counterargument of Hornet is called a child of Weavers a lot

which like

😭

man I give up

arguing with a fool type shit

[pseudo raptor]

Sherma spalshing in the spa is very kid behaviour to me

[foggy fractal]

all roads lead back to Lace child discourse

[muted lantern]

People take the understanding that child doesnt always mean youth and run with it to assume it never does in this setting, when context often makes clear the distinction.

and one also must take into account how individual characters use the terms in different ways, by examining the patterns of who they use these terms for.

[static narwhal]

Do you think this discourse would exist if there wasn't like 7 years of shipping before the game released?

[foggy fractal]

it would still exist

[static narwhal]

But would there be THIS much of it

[foggy fractal]

probably not

[junior epoch]

Hornet is very straightforward, and clearly is capable of recognizing that lace was a child but she uses it in a “if you’re gonna act like a child I’ll call you one” since after a while you’d think it’d get under lace’s skin

[muted lantern]

no

[trail wagon]

Well she kinda is, isn't she? Herrah is a Weaver

Ohhhhh

sorry

[muted lantern]

she very much doesnt use it in that manner, again, the only other characters she refers to in that way are actually kids.

[trail wagon]

It was about Lace being a child ahahahhaa

[junior epoch]

Oh boy it seems I’ve entered the wrong crowd 😭

[trail wagon]

A body of a child doesn't mean "a body of somebody who has a parent" bruh...

[trail wagon]

Did you just call me a kid??? 😠

[copper fiber]

I think that the term child is used very loosely in silksong and in its current state it’s difficult to tell exactly what Lace’s status is

like hornet actually gets called a child more than lace

[trail wagon]

"Body of a child", "mind of a child" - I think it can only mean being an ACTUAL child physically and mentally

[copper fiber]

there’s also very old people calling young adults “child”

[pseudo raptor]

Are you mad, kid?

[muted lantern]

not to mention the "look of a child and a mind to match" line

[trail wagon]

N-no.. I'm n-not mad.. 😭

[copper fiber]

and hornet says that Lace “always had the scent” of being a pale child so that might be what she meant by calling lace “child” but idk

[trail wagon]

Well yeahhh

I don't know how can this be interpreted in any other way

[copper fiber]

if lace is a child how old do you think she is physically
i think she’d be around 16 (bug years)

[muted lantern]

thats less clear,

[trail wagon]

Idk if it's an inappropriate comparison, but it reminds me of a meme where one person is saying "I need to know if you're over 18 years old", and the other saying "I'm 10"

And the first person saying "ahahahah, nooo, I need to know if you're over 18"

Gives off a similar energy tbh

Like it's clearly said "a BODY and a MIND of a CHILD"

[sinful nimbus]

She's talking about Lace being made of silk in this instance

[foggy fractal]

what if i'm made out of silk too

[trail wagon]

I think it's very vague, especially considering the fact that different species have a different way of "maturing"

[pseudo raptor]

Looks* instead of body to be accurate

[trail wagon]

oh yeah

sorry

[copper fiber]

just putting this here to show that “child” is used very loosely

[trail wagon]

But I believe "body of a child" was also mentioned somehwere

[muted lantern]

shakra pretty explicitly confuses hornet for a kid,

[junior epoch]

I still believe Hornet meant in a mocking behavior towards her because she ACTS like a child but she clearly shouldn’t be 😭 Hornet wouldn’t be fighting a kid too. You also gotta take it into account Lace acts like a child in order to cater towards GM silk because her previous “children” grew and became independent which led to them finding out the truth. If she acts like a child it makes GM silk believe that she needs her, that she’ll never be able to betray her like the weavers did because how can a child survive on her own? Phantom grew older, while lace never did and look who was kept around (as cruel as that sounds)

[trail wagon]

Shakra is probably just thinking Hornet is weak

[sinful nimbus]

Shakra is corrected first of all

[trail wagon]

Plus hornet is shor

[copper fiber]

the “Hornet is short” argument is never supported as being the reason that Shakra calls hornet a child so I don’t think it’s valid

[sinful nimbus]

The other ones are in different contexts and are describing Hornet's heritage

[trail wagon]

Ahahhaahah I'm joking

[sinful nimbus]

This isn't the case for Caretakers dialogue

[static narwhal]

Lace is basically a thinking doll. Her mind could probably mature, and maybe could "grow" with silk (That she isn't getting). But I believe the endless amount of trauma being anywhere near GMS seems to inflict on everyone might be hampering her personal growth a bit

[trail wagon]

I mean after you complete her quest she stops calling Hornet a child

[copper fiber]

what about the silk heart dialogue

[spark valve]

it's gms speaking

[sinful nimbus]

Same deal

[pseudo raptor]

Hornet kills squirms easily

[trail wagon]

GMS is probably referring to Hornet's heritage too

[foggy fractal]

hello Tammo and Starpengu | Watch Nausicaa

[trail wagon]

And small flies too actually

[spark valve]

hello Andy

[sinful nimbus]

Andy

[muted lantern]

Hornet has no qualms against hurting kids for one, squirms, skarr scouts, etc. not to mention hornets not prone to mocking like that through the entire game, she typically just applies flat descriptors, even to bugs she hates. considering it mocking is very out of character for her and not remotely in line with how she uses the term child in place of a title for 2 other characters that are children.

[copper fiber]

this is just as much of a stretch as saying that hornet is referring to Lace’s heritage

[trail wagon]

Hornet kills harmless sad gay people 😭

[spark valve]

no it's not lmao

hornet doesn't even know her heritage when she says it

[pseudo raptor]

(Squirms were the most non-aggressive example, just too lazy to type)

[trail wagon]

Why? Hornet is a descendant of Weavers

[trail wagon]

Yeah, true

[copper fiber]

like my point is that child is repeatedly used on a character that very explicitly isn’t a child so silksong uses the term very loosely

[junior epoch]

Those are grown men, who she was bothering too😭

[trail wagon]

Yes, Hornet is just evil 🙁

[sinful nimbus]

Words have multiple meanings

[muted lantern]

its a matter of how different characters use the term differently, as i've said several times before hornet refers to nuu and runt, both explicitly children, as child in the same way she does lace. Whilst in contexts when shes referring to laces heritage she very intentionally switches to calling her pale child/ pale one.

[sinful nimbus]

We can deduce they are a descriptor of Lace's age through context

[trail wagon]

Yes, but there are other context clues that suggest why it's being used there, and in Lace's case there's nothing really suggesting Hornet or Caretaker are trying to insult her

[sinful nimbus]

Contrasting Lace's actual chronological age to her mind and body being that of a child's only makes sense if "child" refers to her age

[trail wagon]

This

[foggy fractal]

nah nah Humble Pilgrim clearly knows Lace's heritage trust

[silk dirge]

star do you have any theories on how hornet just fucking makes red paint for cogflies

[sinful nimbus]

Bloodletting

[foggy fractal]

gets them from me duh

man wtf

do bugs have red blood ?

[cunning wigeon]

I love the fact that Hornet is skilled enough to not actually go for the kill (as seen with the pinstress) but still murders the sad gay

[trail wagon]

Also, isn't Bardoon technically a child too?

[pseudo raptor]

Skull Tyrant should have red blood for that pink mouth

[copper fiber]

caretaker has plenty of reason to insult Lace, just saying

She’s a fucking mass murderer

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet killed all the ants with red blood so she could make more red paint, truly a depraved mind 😔

[trail wagon]

I don't remember that for sure tbh, but I just remember something saying he should transform into some different form

[silk dirge]

hornet can probably make red thread

[foggy fractal]

gosh, is she racist towards the ants too ?

[trail wagon]

Well, he doesn't talk about her in a mocking manner, or at least it doesn't seem so

[sinful nimbus]

Insults can be accurate and if you read the dialogue he's not being particularly insulting he's just describing stuff

[silk dirge]

considering she does exactly this in red memory

[trail wagon]

To be fair, ants are ableists

[silk dirge]

when weaving her cloak

[foggy fractal]

I mean, we do see GMS, Lace and Phantom have comepletly black faces, and we know they're silk creatures, so are those just black thread ? presumably

[pseudo raptor]

Eh Grubfather is presumably mature but still a grub

[trail wagon]

Btw, GMS is fully black, as we see in the Abyss

[sinful nimbus]

She's voided in the abyss

[trail wagon]

Probably Lace and Phantom are also fully black, the white part is just their clothing

[muted lantern]

He actually seems to not have many hard feelings at all toward lace, calls her quite a marvel. Besides, that whole dialogue snail shaman thinks shes dead, he doesnt really have any reason to try to convince hornet something untrue about her.

[trail wagon]

Yeah you're right

[foggy fractal]

that's just void
we see her being completely white when being unraveled from Hornet binding her

[silk dirge]

so can they just make colored thread

i would assume so tbh

[muted lantern]

plus caretaker is like the source of so much of laces characterization to ignore his lines is kinda wild

[trail wagon]

I think it's similar to wraiths

[muted lantern]

caretake is THE loredump npc

[trail wagon]

But is her black face also void?

[silk dirge]

also for some reason its not mentioned in dialog but hornet provides silk to seamstress to weave her drifters cloak

[silk dirge]

that silk in the cutscene glows

[foggy fractal]

no

[sinful nimbus]

HK fans a year ago would have an aneurysm if you told them Lace and the Puppetmaster were void

[trail wagon]

I think she's fully black tbh

[silk dirge]

me on my way to troll hk fans by going back a few years and telling them coral gorge is cut content

they would 100% call it a silkpost

[pseudo raptor]

GMS in the Abyss looks more naked than voided

[sinful nimbus]

"Yeah guys Verdania was all a dream"

[sinful nimbus]

Meh

[silk dirge]

also really funny thing i watched a silksong release trailer analysis before release were they fucking

thought craw lake

was coral gorge

😭

[sinful nimbus]

She's shown to not be black beforehand and then she falls into the abyss and becomes black

Much like Lace

[pseudo raptor]

To be fair craw is like a shellfish irl

[silk dirge]

i mean laces face

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah the masks are solid black but not the body

[silk dirge]

wait wait laces face is WHAT COLOR

erm

gms would never be racist

[foggy fractal]

uh oh

[trail wagon]

I don't think it's void. She is not blackened, she still has white threads around her body, but not as many as before

[muted lantern]

It seems more likely that there's just a harder layer of black silk at the center of the silk beings, acting as like a spool that the rest of the silk is wrapped around. but it is still silk as hornet notes lace is entirely made of silk

[pseudo raptor]

Yeah they don't look like stains

Threadbare more so

[muted lantern]

her design looks like its intended to be threadbare, which comes in line with lace calling her a silk starved beast at this point.

[trail wagon]

I don't really understand what you mean ahahhaha

[trail wagon]

Lace is made of silk, which would mean her black parts too. Apparently, silk can be black

[muted lantern]

as in the black parts of their bodies are also silk, and the white silk is just wrapped around it. like a black endoskeleton. lace is entirely comprised of silk according to hj but also has black parts.

[trail wagon]

ohh gotcha

[static narwhal]

Maybe same way some of Hornets silk is red

[silk dirge]

do we think the red thread on all these items is from hornet

except tacks

[trail wagon]

What I was saying is that GMS is not VOIDED, she IS black under the white silk cover

[muted lantern]

it seems like gms and weavers can just dye their silk if they want to

[silk dirge]

it certainly makes sense it would be

[silk dirge]

yeah

[foggy fractal]

eh actually who cares if she's black or white
so long as you don't go say that's she's actually void or smth

[muted lantern]

yeah im agreeing

[silk dirge]

hornet can probably make a color shifting cloak if she wanted to

[muted lantern]

the black part is just still made of silk

[trail wagon]

Yeah, I was just responding to somebody saying she isn't, it's not too important

[muted lantern]

rgb gamer cloak?

[silk dirge]

yup

[mighty creek]

Whats map mommys lore?

[trail wagon]

It's relevant to the non-white silk discussion though

[static narwhal]

Warrior looking for master. Also strong and hot.

Pretty much it

[muted lantern]

shes from a tribe of warrior cartographers at the edge of pharloom, who was likely abandoned by her birth mother and raised by the mentor she is pursuing throughout the game.

[mighty creek]

Okely dokely

[sinful nimbus]

But she isn't

GMS just has some silk over her void

[trail wagon]

over what????

[silk dirge]

this is so weird bc theres black thread there

[sinful nimbus]

The only time she has a black body is when she is in the abyss

[trail wagon]

brochachonius said something dangerous

[sinful nimbus]

Surrounded by void

[muted lantern]

we just still ignoring the black part that shows up under the mask when her silk is going transparent.

[sinful nimbus]

Which is said to be consuming her silk

[foggy fractal]

the humble gms spritesheet coming in again

[trail wagon]

Her face is black

[sinful nimbus]

Her face is black her body is not

[trail wagon]

and palms too

[sinful nimbus]

You can see that in the spritesheet

[trail wagon]

which?

[sinful nimbus]

There is no black body its just lighting

Like it couldn't be more visible

[foggy fractal]

gms becomes a ball of yarn

what does this mean for the lore

[muted lantern]

evil and scary cat attack

[silk dirge]

we do agree silk can change color tho

otherwise how does hornet make red silk for her cloak

[sinful nimbus]

It can

[muted lantern]

that or she dyes it, but probably just magic

[silk dirge]

yeah

[muted lantern]

changing colors is probably the least miraculous thing silk can do

[foggy fractal]

yeah

[sinful nimbus]

Do you think you can color soul too

[foggy fractal]

that'd be sick

[silk dirge]

maybe

rainbow vs

[trail wagon]

I don't think it necessarily says anything, because Phantom also has white threads coming out of them when Hornet pierces through them

[trail wagon]

It might be her guts

[foggy fractal]

rainbow soul attack from green prince 🥶

[muted lantern]

dung defenders aura is just brown soul

[sinful nimbus]

Her body is also made of silk that's also a particle effect not a whole sprite

[static narwhal]

Nah I think he just stinky there

[trail wagon]

Hmmm

Idk still

[sinful nimbus]

Like there just flat out isn't a black body in there