sk-lore

[inner torrent]

Like that

I just think hornet is not more evil than any of us

[narrow horizon]

idk what ya'll are talking about but ik it's gonna be smth stupid because ms. "Hollow Knight is a metaphor for toxic masculinity" is fighting tooth and nail 💔

[fathom hill]

in anyways, the lifeblood thing is not character assassination cuz Hornet does not have any choice, she does. She just chooses different thing between acts cuz she is, as said before, utilitarian (more like, pragmatic ig? she just wants the damn tool dawg)

that is a thing that she grows out of by act 3

[inner torrent]

Wait, goomba is the same that said HK is a metaphor for toxic masculinity?

[sinful nimbus]

Irrelevant to the convo really but yes

[inner torrent]

Combo**

[fathom hill]

star is dissing hornet again

[narrow horizon]

completely irrelevant but i can't help but bring it up cuz it's legit insane and i can hardly take anything you say about these games seriously 😭

[inner torrent]

Is glowing lifeblood cancer?

[narrow horizon]

Convo = conversation

[sinful nimbus]

OK but that's not lore

[fathom hill]

apparently hornet is the scum of the earth

independent of what she chooses

idk man i just got here today

[lean osprey]

what is hornet supposed to do exactly

[fathom hill]

apparently argue with zylotol

which is just

hmm

[inner torrent]

She should have kidnap zylotl and bring him to belhart

[fathom hill]

put him into rehab

[inner torrent]

Eat his legs or smth so he can't go back to wormways because he would probably do that

[tepid mountain]

Not assist the scientist that is actively spreading lifeblood.

[inner torrent]

So what she actually does in some canonical timelines

[blissful harbor]

she could choose to just not help
she’s actively bringing him back the seeds zango planted
sure she would’ve been a bystander either way

[solid steeple]

They’d kick him out with Yarnaby lol

[blissful harbor]

but like
she could NOT spread the cancer

[sinful nimbus]

Inform Tylenol of Lifeblood's side affects and choose not to help him

[fathom hill]

honestly both could bond over weird specimen

[inner torrent]

And she does!

[blissful harbor]

why are you calling him tylenol

[fathom hill]

well prolly end up with shellwood infected though

[inner torrent]

Because he is dumb

[sinful nimbus]

idr his real name

[inner torrent]

Zylotl not gloom

[lean osprey]

does she know these side effects

[blissful harbor]

yes

[spark valve]

yes

[fathom hill]

again Hornet is making a choice by helping the guy, that is a flaw of her character

[blissful harbor]

she says she’s eeen it before

[inner torrent]

yes

[sinful nimbus]

Yes she's encountered the plasmification in Hallownest according to one of her journal entries

[fathom hill]

a flaw that she grows out of by act 3

[lean osprey]

i see

[blissful harbor]

she knows what would’ve happened

[inner torrent]

But she also knows the good effects

[fathom hill]

like i dont understand

[sinful nimbus]

she helps bro in act 3 too

[fathom hill]

do you see how he is by act 3

[sinful nimbus]

Also I'm not too fond of the idea that the character I quite liked in HK is actually evil for the majority of her second game

[inner torrent]

Wasn't that what you wanted?

[spark valve]

she also in journal entries talks about how pharloom will come to know the scourge of lifeblood she's not planning on helping

[fathom hill]

the infected wormways already happened dawg

[inner torrent]

Decide, do you want her to help him or to let him be

[inner torrent]

Last thing a lie tho

[sinful nimbus]

She should not help him in his experiments no

[fathom hill]

the infection of the wormways would have happened with or without hornet

[sinful nimbus]

I've been very consistent about this so idk what you're waffling bout

[inner torrent]

That doesn't change anything in wormways tho?

[fathom hill]

we know this cuz that is what happens if you refuse to help him in act 1-2

[spark valve]

inside the feeble mind of a starpengu hater

[inner torrent]

There is no ethical problem in helping him recollect lifeblood

[fathom hill]

surely

[sinful nimbus]

That doesn't change her being complacent though

[silk dirge]

the humble pharloom bay dlc

[lean osprey]

does the dude say he plans on spreading it

[spark valve]

her not warning him is pretty bad

[inner torrent]

No she isn't

[silk dirge]

i do wonder whats going to happen with that

[inner torrent]

Can someone search the definition of complacent?

[fathom hill]

You literally are doing this whole thing cuz her contribution affects the enviroment

[sinful nimbus]

I can help a dude about to shoot a guy with that task or I cannot and he shoots em anyway I'm still complacent

[spark valve]

it's like textbook complacency

[fathom hill]

by the time hornet goes to help everything already gone to shit

[inner torrent]

No it isn't

[fathom hill]

let her have the tool at least idk

[silk dirge]

like is zylotols master just gonna be like "collect my plasmium" and hornet does that

[fathom hill]

what you want her to do

[inner torrent]

You can't be complacent of a crime that happened before you got to the crime scene

[fathom hill]

literally

[sinful nimbus]

Its Silksong can you expect anything more from the quests

[inner torrent]

Also why no one is mentioning the other bad stuff she does to environment?

[lean osprey]

maybe she did it because of her unwavering willingness to complete fetch quests

she simply cant resist

[sinful nimbus]

She can however worsen the crime

[silk dirge]

if sealbugs are involved its a 10/10

[spark valve]

uuuh sometimes you have to kill a bunch of the same thing over and over and over

[inner torrent]

But she didn't

[sinful nimbus]

"I can't be complacent in littering the ocean because the ocean is already polluted"

[inner torrent]

She didn't put anything in the ocean that's the fucking point

She never put lifeblood seeds in wormways, neither she helped zylotol to do that

[tepid mountain]

She is actively helping that guy who is “littering the ocean” tho.

[silk dirge]

hornets real crime in pharloom is releasing the vaultborn

[tepid mountain]

Like, do you not see why that’s bad?

[inner torrent]

That also is fake

Zylotol didn't litter the ocean

That was

What's the name of the dead one?

[silk dirge]

no matter what you do they will be released

[spark valve]

if you say it wasn't him it was the apprentice he commanded to go do it

[inner torrent]

Zylotol 2.0 ig

[fathom hill]

I mean

[inner torrent]

Exactly

[fathom hill]

what do you think hornet does in the quest

[spark valve]

that is unfathomably stupid

[fathom hill]

does she inject or extract

[spark valve]

'he's not responsible he just gave the order'

[tepid mountain]

Come on lmao

[fathom hill]

real

[inner torrent]

Hornet is basically an ambientalist that accepted a job to recollect trash from ocean for studies

[silk dirge]

the fucking vaultborn arena is the stupidest thing tc has ever made idk

[sinful nimbus]

She's furthering Tylenol's research which is used for a destructive cause

[lean osprey]

maybe hornets faculty of reason was compromised by extreme brain damage everyone had her sustain during the savage beastfly fight

[silk dirge]

tylenol 😭

[fathom hill]

yeah, in act 1-2

in act 3 dude is literally like

[inner torrent]

Tylenol so dumb I'm glad he died

[fathom hill]

not here

do you think that a man that would still do damage, literally one step to being a corpse

he is not doing research by that point

[silk dirge]

anything be doing contact damage

except skrill for some reason

mfs really have 0 self defense

[inner torrent]

Basically hornet is recollecting pills for a man in the edge of death so he can pass peacefully

[fathom hill]

i understand the point of Hornet contributing to the research, but that is not the case in act 3

[sinful nimbus]

Advanced Alchemy is also done with the explicit goal of furthering the research

[inner torrent]

Didn't he end the research before he died?

[fathom hill]

ah yeah

im sure a lot of research is being done

and not just saying shit so hornet can give him medicine drug

[inner torrent]

Literally

[fathom hill]

the dude that is quite literally tied to the ground

[sinful nimbus]

Worsening his own state is also...bad

[inner torrent]

Its called euthanasia

[fathom hill]

dude hes gone

[sinful nimbus]

I'm also not sure how she would foresee this outcome but wtv

[fathom hill]

what you want hornet to do dawg

[spark valve]

This blood you have collected... sparkles... I see it! A glorious form... a glorious future, shimmering back at us...
yeah she's definitely not advancing any bad outcomes

that's not concerning at all

[inner torrent]

Oh but she can foresee him being an idiot enough to inject himself with lifeblood in dangerous dosis?

[spark valve]

seems totally fine

[fathom hill]

Oh im guessing she does

but again act1-2 hornet does

[sinful nimbus]

She doesn't foresee anything he tells her

[fathom hill]

she doesnt give a shit, why would she

but she learns

and grows

[spark valve]

she doesn't really give a shit in act 3 either wrt this

[sinful nimbus]

But she doesn't

Her being evil in Act 1 and 2 is also bad

[fathom hill]

[inner torrent]

She does tho?

[fathom hill]

cant argue with that

[inner torrent]

And also, what's being evil?

[fathom hill]

"no she aint"

lmao

anyways

[sinful nimbus]

I mean yeah you can read the dialogue

[inner torrent]

The one with no sin should throw the first pebble

[fathom hill]

yes

[silk dirge]

vaultborn moment

[fathom hill]

thats the point

[lean osprey]

does hornet follow the categorical imperative 🤔

[spark valve]

she doesn't grow and change she literally just keeps doing the same thing in act 3

[tepid mountain]

You’d think a character that had previously dealt with Radiance infection in Hallownest wouldn’t actively help spread a new infection in a new kingdom.

[fathom hill]

what is the same thing

[inner torrent]

Because I must remember you guys, we are talking through discord in a forum about silksong

[sinful nimbus]

Asking why destroying ecosystems is evil is not the profound question you think it is

[inner torrent]

We are not good examples of what's good and bad

[spark valve]

the same quest again like exactly the same

[fathom hill]

no

[inner torrent]

Ok why don't you stop doing it?

[spark valve]

she doesn't do anything different

[unique canopy]

Hornet is objectively not evil because the Citadel violated the NAP and she is entitled to self-defence and appropriate redress

[spark valve]

she continues helping

[fathom hill]

the humble "in act 3" dialogue:

[sinful nimbus]

Its a game I want to see all the content available because its all fiction

[spark valve]

and then she does it anyways

[silk dirge]

im fine destroying whatever ecosystem exists in putrified ducts by making spit squits go extinct

[fathom hill]

we are going in circles

[silk dirge]

i dont think that counts as an ecosystem anyway

[fathom hill]

i already discussed this, go read above

[silk dirge]

nothing else tho

[inner torrent]

I mean why don't you stop polluting

[spark valve]

not remotely the same lmao

[inner torrent]

Indeed, ours is kinda worse

[fathom hill]

hornet is not evil cuz i like her

hornets cool yall trippin

[sinful nimbus]

You can't stop polluting in the current system Hornet can stop helping Tylenol however

[fathom hill]

[inner torrent]

Hornet is product of a very traumatic environment where her life is constantly threatening

She has a reason to be flawed

[spark valve]

'uhm guys capitalism is evil so really existing in society is worse than if I go stab a guy' ahh

[inner torrent]

You can?

There is no real reason to be discussing in a discord forum instead of

Idk save the whales or smth

[sinful nimbus]

What about her upbringing would make her apathetic to the destruction she causes

[inner torrent]

Those dumb cowards mammals

Who grows legs just to go back to the sea?

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet's one cool moment is when she rips off Zandatsu and she only uses it to kill one power hungry politician

[fathom hill]

I actually could argue for watching first hand the destruction of the kingdom and the years of pretty much isolation

[inner torrent]

Hornet ratio of good/evil is way better than the common human ratio

[sinful nimbus]

That she works to save yeah

[fathom hill]

also apparently she did used to be a more proper sentinel, but she stopped at some point

[sinful nimbus]

That was all she did in the first game

What changed

[fathom hill]

by hk point she is pretty walled out of social bonds

[lean osprey]

hornet is obviously selfless and altruistic

[fathom hill]

that she learns to regain by hk and ss

through the knight and others in pharloom

[lean osprey]

its insane to say she isnt

[inner torrent]

Hornet is selfish AND altruistic

You can be both

[lean osprey]

but this whole lifeblood fiasco is out of character

[sinful nimbus]

In general yes I'm critiquing one specific instance where she breaks character in a bizarre manner

There are a few other examples in Silksong though and it overall makes it hard to enjoy the character

[inner torrent]

The other examples would be:

[fathom hill]

i disagree, i think the lifeblood thing makes sense for the growing she does in the game, its a although bit muddier way to see her growth

[inner torrent]

Not helping huntress ig?

[sinful nimbus]

Killing Karmelita as a fourth heart

Also being a racist

[inner torrent]

Tbh

[fringe cloud]

Tbf Hornet’s a lot more mature in silksong than she is in hk K think

[inner torrent]

Just killing any fourth heart

[sinful nimbus]

I mean at least Khann and Nyleth are already dead and killing Green Prince restores Verdania plantlife and gives him closure

[inner torrent]

I think the only fourth hearts that make sense are two

[sinful nimbus]

Karmelita is just insane

[inner torrent]

Khan and nyleth

[fathom hill]

-player does something -"noo why would hornet do this"

im kidding

well

[mint stratus]

The only thing that mildly belays my hatred for kratt is my utter confusion on what he’s even getting from peeping

Dude hornets bathes with her clothes on and from your perspective you can only see her head and the fabric

• bugs don’t have anything to see, they’re stick figures without or barely a concept of nudity

[fathom hill]

half kidding

[inner torrent]

Hornet did not know verdania was coming back

[sinful nimbus]

That's true

[inner torrent]

She just homophobic

Let's be fr

[fathom hill]

yah thats true

[muted lantern]

why did chara make me make hornet do this

[fringe cloud]

They probably don’t care that she’s a woman either bc that doesn’t apply for bugs

[inner torrent]

Anyway, I don't think it's out of character

Ig it can be evil

[tepid mountain]

The player can’t do the thing, if the character isn’t willing to do the thing.

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah like leaving Pharloom

[fathom hill]

it depends id guess

for this game i could see it, hornet does justify herself in those cases

well

[mint stratus]

Is it like purely the principle of the matter for kratt??

[fathom hill]

at least the karmelita thing she does

[inner torrent]

But also, if the game gives the option to don't do it it means hornet would be willing to also not

[floral venture]

Maybe Kratt wasn't lying when he said he was just fixing shit, lmao

[inner torrent]

Right

There is no proof kratt a pervert

[fathom hill]

we dont know why she helps zyletol, but giving the case weve got id say its not really ooc

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah why does Hornet have such an accusatory mind 😔

[inner torrent]

For all we know he is just an awkward flaw with bad social habits

[fringe cloud]

That’s most of us

[inner torrent]

Omg we are kratt

[fathom hill]

styx is the better pervert imo

anyways

[inner torrent]

Omg I forgot to reserve my food for tomorrow

Styx is not a pervert

[mint stratus]

Are we ranking perverts now?

[fringe cloud]

Kind of yeah

[inner torrent]

Because that would make me a pervert and I don't agree with that

[fathom hill]

isnt it all we do here?

[unique canopy]

Styx is the good kind of pervert

[mint stratus]

You know what, fair

[fringe cloud]

I’m scared at the implications of that

[mint stratus]

Slightly disagree but only because hornet is not into his whole deal

[inner torrent]

I would let Styx kill my husband and use it's head as a mask ngl

[mint stratus]

You may want to marry a mantis

[inner torrent]

Styx a mantis confirmed

[unique canopy]

He's a total simp who wants to be stepped on, but does so in a way that's supportive of and deferential to the queen (figurative) he's simping for

[inner torrent]

Guys what do you think about hairy legs in silksong?

[fathom hill]

idk if it was someone here but someone once told me that styx does not seem to care abt consent, since hornet asks him to stop calling her mistress and styx still does it

[inner torrent]

I have noticed there are way more hairy legs in silksong than in hollow knight

Is Hallownest pro shaving or smth?

[fathom hill]

i still like him a lot, styx great

[fringe cloud]

I love women that want to kill me let’s go

[fathom hill]

anyways we are over the lifeblood thing?

so we can talk abt the herald again

[gentle aspen]

no

they’re pro nudism though

[mint stratus]

The slab is also pro nudism

[unique canopy]

Hey did you know a herald is a name for a species of moth.

[fathom hill]

Oh cool

looks like an autumn leaf

[lean osprey]

moth naming convention is psychotic

theres one called the freak

theres also salacious hebrew character

the triangle

the suspected

[mint stratus]

The herald is always talking to someone unseen, unsure if it’s supposed to be fayforn or the rest of whatever mycelium network is going on

[fathom hill]

fish too apparently

[lean osprey]

yea

[fathom hill]

cue that one dongfish wikipedia

[lean osprey]

the drinker is one

[mint stratus]

What we should consider is that hornet was taught how to speak mushroom

[lean osprey]

theres the joker

[lean temple]

On Mt Fay he's talking to Fayforn

[fathom hill]

yeah

or bound one many years ago

[lean osprey]

idk what is going on with entomologist naming moths but i dont like it

[inner torrent]

What's the connection between the herald and the fungus folk?

[fathom hill]

since the mushroom language is more physical, since in hk you need a charm

[lean temple]

The Shroomals accepted her father's reign. It makes sense she was able to learn their language

[mint stratus]

They should be allowed to continue

[fathom hill]

the lore tablets do not appear, so im guessing its quite literally invisible before you get something

idk if the charm could be a bit of the shroom people?

[inner torrent]

Is he a special mushroom or the god of mushrooms or

[fathom hill]

It could totally be

[lean temple]

He is special

[fathom hill]

i see both as options though

[inner torrent]

Is he even a mushroom?

[mint stratus]

Mushroom higher being?

[lean temple]

Mister Mushroom

[fathom hill]

We dunno if he is a higher being but I do believe it

[lean temple]

"This shroom its witness"

[inner torrent]

Ok but, mushroom can be a codename form..

[fathom hill]

he is the father of all the shroom people by first

[inner torrent]

Moo shush room

[fathom hill]

plus he has some kind of foresight", and sense of world that seems outside of common bugs

[limpid summit]

Presumably he created the shrumals

[fathom hill]

so i always guessed he qualifies

[limpid summit]

I think he’s a higher being

[lean temple]

That's not confirmed, however mushrooms that are identical to those in fungal wastes show up next to his tablet

[limpid summit]

Some people like to say he’s “something else” but like TC gave us this vague definition and he aligns with it

He certainly exists above all others

[fathom hill]

im pretty sure it is said in one of the tablets

[lean temple]

You have "Spawn of self, their minds unite" which could be just Shrumals or him and the Shrumals

[limpid summit]

“Spawn of self their minds unite” this might refer to the mushroom hivemind and how they reproduce

For a while I thought it was phrased as him being the spawn but it’s not conclusive one way or another

[limpid summit]

Either way yeah the silksong shrooms mean he likely did

[inner torrent]

Herald a cutie tho

[fathom hill]

in first line they referre to the herald directly though

[limpid summit]

Best singing voice ever

[inner torrent]

I would like him to be dateable in next games

[lean temple]

I always thought they were his spawn

[fathom hill]

by correlation it should be the second line be referring to him too, no?

[limpid summit]

No like yeah but I used the line as evidence

Idk if it really is

But YES I’m glad MMHB agenda is widespread now

You guys awesome

[fathom hill]

actually all the poem is referring to him

[lean temple]

Well yeah

[fathom hill]

i dunno how you could interpret spawn of self otherwise

[lean temple]

And the shrooms in silksong support it heavily

[fathom hill]

since why are we talking abt the shroom people in only the second line yknow (while the rest of the poem is him alone)

[lean temple]

His mere presence causes them to spawn

[mint stratus]

🎶Mushroom dance mushroom dance, whatever could it mean?🎶

The heralds presence marks an ages end
He also seems to have some sort of prescience, or atleast greater sight of the present
Considering how he acknowledges hornets wyrm heritage as allowing her to understand his views more in the future

[fathom hill]

good point

anyways the language thing again

[limpid summit]

Spawn of self - like they spawn themselves

Oh yeah her knowing

[fathom hill]

the charm of hk, do we know what is the mechanism of it is

[sinful nimbus]

I think Mister Mushroom is Tom Bombadil

[limpid summit]

Yeah probably just cause PK and them were on good terms

So she actually learned it

[limpid summit]

This is true

But that’s still a higher being

[inner torrent]

If you think it makes a lot of sense he is so powerful

Fungus are peak nature

[fathom hill]

could it be the knight like borrowing a bit of their shared conscience and thats why they can communicate

[sinful nimbus]

No feats

[inner torrent]

They eat everything that's left, they are the prime consumers of leftovers

[mint stratus]

Mr mushroom may be immortal considering his “caps and shell may fall to dust, but Mr Mushroom readjusts”

[sinful nimbus]

He just watches stuff anyone could do that

And is immortal sure wtv

[fathom hill]

i really like the idea that hornet can just do that cuz she just bound one of them once a long time ago

[inner torrent]

He killed the blackwyrm and defeated the first shade lord

[limpid summit]

He exists above Wyrms

Wyrms exist above all others

Ergo he exists above all others

[sinful nimbus]

By what criteria

He just outlives them

[limpid summit]

He watches these immortal god kings shrivel to dust and their rules fade

[inner torrent]

Isn't that the meaning of power? Survival

[limpid summit]

Exist above all others doesn’t have to be physical

That’s why TC kept the definition vague

[silk dirge]

caps and shells shall fall to dust...

[inner torrent]

Can the white lady mate with normal bugs?

[sinful nimbus]

But he never accomplishes anything near their rules

[limpid summit]

Have I told you my mr mushroom theory pogseal

[silk dirge]

no

[limpid summit]

Mister mushroom’s speech heralds the end of Hallownest by talking about caps and shells and Wyrms

But his Silksong song doesnt refer to Pharloom

[sinful nimbus]

It might count as being a god but I'm not super confident in the theory

[limpid summit]

Because that’s not a rule that’s ending

Stone shall break and steel shall rust

It’s the end for the Masters

Mr mushroom is heralding the end of the age of steel

[silk dirge]

interesting

[fathom hill]

the steel thing is defo referring to the core

[silk dirge]

and with what he says about hornets actions heralding him again

[fathom hill]

but the stone, does it refer to the citadel itself?

given it was built on stone

plus the nice double thing with the weavers being stone mummies to be broken

[limpid summit]

Yeah I mean he has no “feats” but he has insanely vast awareness and like he exists above these beings whose entire gimmick is ruling for essentially forever

I would say he’s a higher being by default

[limpid summit]

Maybe actually

Stone shall break (old citadel) steel shall rust (gilded citadel)

[lean temple]

He doesn't need to or want to

[limpid summit]

Both the weavers and conductors rules are over

But stone could also be Growstone

Rock of the home spear

[sinful nimbus]

Wyrms are more aware he can only percieve the present

Also that ain't the entire gimmick of wyrms

[fathom hill]

that he says

[limpid summit]

Wyrms pull bugs into their thrall

But Bardoon says their like is gone

[silk dirge]

until ages pass and kingdoms fall

[limpid summit]

So they might be in other forms or all dead

[fathom hill]

we are back to the lifeblood thing

act4? other content?

horner outside pharloom?

who knows

[lean temple]

Steel also the steel of the steel faction

[silk dirge]

lifeblood seems like in act 3 content

steel city idk

thatd be an act 4 for sure

[limpid summit]

For sure

It would break the 3 act structure but like

No way a storyline like that can be self contained

[craggy smelt]

screw the 3 act structure

[silk dirge]

we about to get another 3 acts

[limpid summit]

So true

[lean temple]

Idk how it would mesh with classic mode

What's the motive for going to the Steel City?

[craggy smelt]

get them to stop sending Steel Assassins after you

[muted lantern]

Also as to the conversation earlier, like people do realize that the plasmium was already seeded throughout the region, it would have infested the whole wormways regardless, the game waits for you to do the quest so that the player doesnt miss it if they only came to the wormways in act 3.

[craggy smelt]

same reason Hornet goes after the Citadel even though she has the option to just bail on Pharloom

[sinful nimbus]

I've seen the Steel City act referred to as interlude and I think that's tuff

[silk dirge]

that would be interesting

[craggy smelt]

eh

[limpid summit]

Freeing the vassals or something

[craggy smelt]

be weird

[lean temple]

Well yes, but wouldn't that be after Hornet pisses off the Masters in Steel Soul by letting Sula go?

[silk dirge]

"oh yeah sorry guys i gotta deal with these annoying steel guys before i deal with your silk mommy"

[limpid summit]

I had a dream where the beginning of act 4 was Sharpe standing over Sula’s corpse

[fathom hill]

The point is that, some said its a dissonance between what the player is ought to do with that quest, and what hornet does. The player will do anything for an extra tool, but why does hornet do it

[craggy smelt]

I'd say it'd be more for her massive Void crimes in Act 3

[limpid summit]

But it was like a YouTube video so it showed different dialogue if you had never met them

[silk dirge]

sula about to be compressed 😭

[craggy smelt]

which is why steel city interlude pre-Act 3 would be weird

[lean temple]

I mean the Shamans are the ones to blame for that

[sinful nimbus]

True true

[lean temple]

Although I can see your points

[muted lantern]

For the tool? hornet is pretty clear early on that she does the quests for her own benifit, she finds the lifeblood very useful, she wants to see it further researched.

[sinful nimbus]

The game frames it as Hornet's doing even though it really isn't

[craggy smelt]

I'm sure if you calmly and reasonably point that out to Steel Assassin Sharpe he'll totally understand

[inner torrent]

I think In act 4 we will leave pharloom

And go to the steel city

[lean temple]

However the Masters didn't send assassins after PK or the Ancients or the Weavers

[fathom hill]

yah, my point its that her decision makes sense, some say it doesn't, thats its out of character

[sinful nimbus]

How do you think PK died

[fathom hill]

shotgun

[sinful nimbus]

And clearly the staked weaver is Absolom

[inner torrent]

Blue balls

[limpid summit]

Prolly broken heart

[fathom hill]

died of shame

[lean temple]

Please tell me

[sinful nimbus]

Ok real talk my hc is that the ancient civ were wiped out by Sharpe and co.

It'd upscale them

[craggy smelt]

also if you burn a building down with a bomb someone else made, I'm not sure you can claim ignorance
especially if you were like 'well, I thought it would only burn like this one person, not everybody'

[blissful harbor]

he killed himself

[inner torrent]

He probably just evolved to another shape

Like into sherma

[craggy smelt]

I hate it
(I think ancient civ should be older than anybody, so old no one knows what happened to them, even steel brains)

[fathom hill]

how does a hb kill themselves now

[sinful nimbus]

I like that but I like Sharpe more

[inner torrent]

I like to this shaman's are descendants of the ancients

[lean temple]

My own hc is that the Masters could be Ancients. But if they wiped them out they must be hella old atp

[muted lantern]

considering the abyss tablets it seems more like they took themselves off the census

[limpid summit]

Sharpe upscale but I still hope the ancients died way before anyone

[craggy smelt]

I do hope steel city gives us more insight into ancient civ
like they've collected data on them and have more arcane eggs and crap like that

[inner torrent]

Steel city might just be the ancient

[lean temple]

Imagine they just have vaults full of arcane eggs omg

[inner torrent]

They just slept so much they don't know their civilization died

[fathom hill]

i suspect a bit that tc is yet to know themselves what the ancient civ's deal is

[craggy smelt]

with the tablet reveal that ancient wanted to become Shades
and the Knight is supposed to be like the Masters
then maybe the Masters are Ancient Shades

(or Ancient Vessels)

[craggy smelt]

while I would love more about them, I also do adore the mystery...

[inner torrent]

And damn what vessels

[lean temple]

They could be lords of shades themselves or of similar power, who knows.

[limpid summit]

Did the ancients want to like make imprints of themselves?

Do we think the voided seal on the ancient bowl man has anything to do with no will no self

[lean temple]

If we throw out enough ideas eventually one of them will be correct lol

[craggy smelt]

they wanted to get hollow'd out

[limpid summit]

Is it an eventually he stopped thinking thing where it just kept itself pseudo alive to see Lord of Shades realized

[inner torrent]

They are like me

NGL being a shade sounds peak

[muted lantern]

Its kinda interesting thematically that wormways gets overrun by an infection like thing, whilst also being this games closest thing to deepnest. makes me think about how it might have brought back bad memories of returning to deepnest and findiing it infected.

[inner torrent]

Or a weird inmortal metal being

[craggy smelt]

maybe, they tried to drown their own thoughts with Void or something, and it made a Void seal

[inner torrent]

The ancient civilization wanted their voice to be heard

But by who?

[sinful nimbus]

I don't want a rw ripoff

[blissful harbor]

already happened

just accept it

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah but it'd be cathartic if Sharpe metaphorically killed Rain World's lore

[limpid summit]

So TRUE

[craggy smelt]

other games, feh

[sinful nimbus]

Another sharpe upscale

[blissful harbor]

i don’t see another way to interpret the “void cleanse us” tablet besides them just fucking hopping in

[lean temple]

Doesn't have to be Sharpe himself. Could be another assassin. Who knows how many there are

[craggy smelt]

"We yearn for your embrace"

[fathom hill]

as hornet said, maybe its just coincidence

it prolly aint coincidence

[craggy smelt]

he has at least two friends

[muted lantern]

I for one want to see hornet have to deal with the consequences of the wormways.

[sinful nimbus]

Sharpe intercepted them mid jump

[lean temple]

Considering there's a whole city the Masters have many servants

[fathom hill]

she may as well do

[sinful nimbus]

What if you grabbed them midair with his nose

[fathom hill]

if she is to venture to the lab

[sinful nimbus]

That'd be a hype cutscene

[craggy smelt]

I like to think of multiple assassin kill-teams

[fathom hill]

maybe we would get a quest fixing the infection

now is it act 3 content, or act 4 content

[lean temple]

That's likely

[fathom hill]

it pains me to think that all dlc could get trapped in only what act 3 can be

i really need another act reconstructing pharloom fuckk

[lean temple]

I hope the Masters have some metal af names too

[inner torrent]

Imagine hornet fighting the abyss creature

[craggy smelt]

headcanon:
steelhearts undergo 'Compression' to make them more and more steel, which makes them more mechanical-like, and therefore less likely to screw up their orders
the reason Sharpe has so little metal armor compared to others is that he's never undergone Compression, because he never screws up or fails

[blissful harbor]

compression is how you get pale ore

[inner torrent]

And hornet is about to die due to the strength of the abyss creature, and then, a little creature with white horns and a nail saves hornet...

[lean temple]

Or he is Void which the Masters can manipulate directly

[inner torrent]

And it's revealed she was saved by... ZOTE THE MIGHTY

[craggy smelt]

if he does turn out to be Void that would be extremely funny

[lean temple]

We're gonna have to wait and see if he turns into a puddle upon defeat

I also wanna know what's up with the runes that the big flying Steelheart gives off

I thought they were for flight but the thing has wings already

[craggy smelt]

oh, the cut one?

[lean temple]

Yeah

[craggy smelt]

with the lazers

[trail wagon]

I honestly felt like Wormways were more similar to ancient basin

[craggy smelt]

I can't think of what runes they had, must check screenshots

[inner torrent]

Soul prob

[lean temple]

The little drones are the ones who shoot the lasers

[craggy smelt]

oh yeah, I guess they do have little rune particles

[trail wagon]

Coool stuff

Love this

[craggy smelt]

soul beams I suppose

[trail wagon]

Compression is when pale ore

[craggy smelt]

funny, in my head they were pink beams, made me think of Crystal Peak lasers

[trail wagon]

Master can't control the Void most likely, or at least they can't control all of it

[inner torrent]

Interestinf

What does they have to do with shaman's?

[trail wagon]

Because otherwise they wouldn't forbid Sula and the other vassals from touching it

[craggy smelt]

probably nothing, other guys can use Soul too

[trail wagon]

are you talking about steel enemies?

[lean temple]

Yes

[blissful harbor]

or they know how dangerous it can be, and don’t want ordinary bugs summoning it

[trail wagon]

Interestingly enough there are some rune-like particles around them

[lean temple]

Some Vassals are allowed to use it (Jiji can) so it's likely that the knowledge needs special permission to be used

[trail wagon]

This is also a good explanation

[fathom hill]

they also appeared when dunking into lava apparently

[trail wagon]

Jiji is not JUST a vassal

[fathom hill]

since i remember i went ot check this once

there were a lot of music note particles that got scrapped

[trail wagon]

Also I personally think Jiji using void doesn't necessarily mean she is allowed to

[fathom hill]

prolly were too visually busy

[lean temple]

She's more experienced which pairs well with an immature Steelheart like Jinn

[craggy smelt]

hard to tell, but there's some similarities in the little drone runes to Zi's big rune

[trail wagon]

Jiji summoning the shade is not cannon, because cannonically TK doesn't die

[trail wagon]

I think we discussed that

I sent it lol

[lean temple]

The shade yes, but Void summoning is now smthg Vassals have access to canonically

[trail wagon]

Who? I don't remember that

Let me know if you find it

[craggy smelt]

Jiji is breaking rules to get those delicious rancid eggs

[lean temple]

She wouldn't do something forbidden, we have seen how punishing and feared the Masters are.

[fathom hill]

ill try to find it

[craggy smelt]

you don't seem to realize how tasty rancid eggs are

[trail wagon]

Well, I didn't say they don't HAVE access cannonically, what i said is that Jiji doesn't do it cannonicaly, THOUGH she theoretically can

[lean temple]

Well Jinn is helping her so are they both defying the Masters now?

[trail wagon]

Fair, yeah. I also think there was no lore for the Masters written at that time, but that's just a pure speculation on my part

[inner torrent]

Vassals are the weird snail/scarabs?

[trail wagon]

Ahahaha true true

[trail wagon]

Yeah

[craggy smelt]

Jinn is just getting her food, Jiji trading rituals for food would be a different thing

[blissful harbor]

master stuff has been in the game since release with steel soul iirc

[trail wagon]

Although there could be are other species who could be vassals, but we don't know yet

[blissful harbor]

jinn always mentioned them

[craggy smelt]

and Steelhearts do tend to care about their vassals, Zi was glad Sula made a break for it while still hoping the Masters will ultimately see her as loyal

[lean temple]

Well the Masters have a purpose for Jiji and Jinn to be in Hallownest. What this purpose is remains unclear, but perhaps they do want to help a vessel became the Shadelord

[trail wagon]

Yeah, they were mentioned in some Jinn's dialogues, but maybe it wasn't fleshed out yet

[craggy smelt]

hoping a new Master will arise...?

[lean temple]

:O

[trail wagon]

I didn't feel like it tbh, interestingly. She says that Sula should be found dead or alive

either will do, or something

she said something like that

[inner torrent]

How do you think the Karaka spirit got to Hallownest?

[blissful harbor]

walking

[craggy smelt]

early on yeah, but at the end of the wish when Hornet says Sula has run off, Zi says she hopes they live a long time
she's loyal first and foremost to her Masters, but she seems to care for Sula still

[trail wagon]

It would be so cool if it turned out the Masters are like some incredibly weak creatures

[lean temple]

She does wish the best for them. It seems due to whatever the Masters did to them the Steelhearts have trouble feeling emotions

[trail wagon]

TC got inspired by a backer character and made it into an entire civilization

[craggy smelt]

I do like the idea that the Masters are individually nothing special, not higher beings
but they're a big group that acts together, and they've figured out all kinds of magic and techniques and shit

[trail wagon]

Oh, alrighty

[trail wagon]

Yeah

[lean temple]

I doubt there are very many

[trail wagon]

It's also intersting that there seems to be at least a couple of them

[lean temple]

Sure they could be normal beings who accumulated so much knowledge and power that they now can rival gods, but I still believe their numbers to be very limited.

[trail wagon]

Typically there's one super powerful god/HB

[craggy smelt]

more than one at least
I was thinking like the Conductors, there was presumably a couple of them active at one time

[trail wagon]

Yeah, honestly, I personally imagine something like a caste of HB hunters

Like they hunt HB and seek control over everything

Perhaps they want to control all Void

[lean temple]

"Not order. Not order they seek"

Hmmm

[trail wagon]

Where is it from?

[lean temple]

Jinn

[inner torrent]

So:

Masters > Steel hearts > Vassals

[fathom hill]

I noticed i have shit lot of messages

why do i yap so much oh my godd

[craggy smelt]

I saw a theory that the Masters are gearing up for a major conquest - hence all the reconissance in kingdoms

[fathom hill]

i dont even remember, but im sure the footage was from the demo

[craggy smelt]

personally I like the idea of them being like this balancing force - they monitor the Void, but can also keep pale beings in check

[lean temple]

You'd think the various monarchs would be alerted if so

[fathom hill]

lace falling, or hornet falling into lava had these music note particles

[lean temple]

Hornet knows the Masters are surveying kingdoms

[craggy smelt]

Hornet knows every fucking thing, but never shares with players

[trail wagon]

when did you join?

[lean temple]

Me too. I imagine them like a cosmic balance or bureaucracy keeping things in check.

[fathom hill]

it wasnt here, it was in the r/silksong discord

unless im misremembering

i have way less messages on there though

[lean temple]

Yea so if the Masters were planning a conquest you'd think she'd be rushing to fortify Pharloom or rush people to safety.

[fathom hill]

im trying to remember the key words i said

[craggy smelt]

yeah, so 'not order' because they don't want pale beings to rule, but they don't want the Void everywhere either

[trail wagon]

you have 8113 messages here, do you remember when you joined?

[fathom hill]

since i remember telling someone id check if its still like that

[trail wagon]

It's just that I joined like a week or so ago and...

[lean temple]

Basically they don't want the world to stagnate under the rule of any major force

[fathom hill]

im sure in the phone app ver of discord you can see the exact date

lemme check

[trail wagon]

Idk

[trail wagon]

Yeah, actually

[fathom hill]

but its been like a month and a half or something?

i joined here when i beat ss

[trail wagon]

Zi is tasked with observing everything and recording

[trail wagon]

Love that too

[craggy smelt]

maybe keeping a record of kingdoms? so they aren't lost when they die out

[craggy smelt]

I want to see a big library or gallery of HBs and kingdoms in steel city
like the Cradle's cage room but with even more tantalizing shit to read about

[trail wagon]

Interesting

[trail wagon]

Does anybody recognize these symbols?

[lean temple]

That would be amazing

[trail wagon]

GODHOME???

[trail wagon]

I'd say more like Memorium

Imagine them putting them in cages like that

[craggy smelt]

sure, just a glimpse at their records, all the things they've learned

[trail wagon]

it would be hilarious and diminishing

Like "look at GMS in her natural habitat "

[lean temple]

It'd be pretty funny if we could inspect a Wyrm corpse and it just read "The mangled corpse of a once-mighty Wyrm, effortlessly crushed and killed by a Master of Steel" and then you unlock a Wyrm journal entry.

[craggy smelt]

lol more like the bit where there were lore tablets with new places we hadn't been to

[silk dirge]

"big glowing moth, tracked and taken in the abyss, 4 assasins lost to task"

[craggy smelt]

my ultimate fantasy is like a gallery of statues of pale beings, all the entities they've been keeping tabs on
and we see familiar faces (PK, Silk, Root, etc.) and some completely new ones

[trail wagon]

Wyrm journal entry 😭

I can't imagine this ahahaha

[silk dirge]

imagine if blackwyrm is there or some shit

[trail wagon]

"The Void Entity, tracked and captured in the abyss below Pharloom, 2 assasins sent, none lost to task"

[trail wagon]

😭

[silk dirge]

yeah they wish lmao

[narrow horizon]

[craggy smelt]

Journal Part: The broken fragments of a once mighty entity. Their foresight and power availed them nothing.

Hornet's Part: I hate my dad.

[silk dirge]

wyrm weaver child wielding daddy issues

[craggy smelt]

the ultimate twist, 'Black'wyrm was just a misdirect

[trail wagon]

Atp we're writing out the third game's plot lol

[muted lantern]

So what do we think are the effects of plasmium on the common bug? Does a single dose trigger the mutations?

is it simply a matter of time after the first dose? or is it a matter of repeated use

[lean temple]

Zylotol:

[blissful harbor]

we can get a just of it from ellina, joni, then hornet
in terms of both use and resistance

well not resistance from joni

unfortunately

[muted lantern]

yes, but im wondering if he only took one dose would he have still mutated

[lean temple]

Hornet isn't a good measure bcz she's part Wyrm

[muted lantern]

as in, did the plasmified bugs in the wormways recieve multiple doses or was one enough to cause all of this

[lean temple]

Vessels are completely immune

[trail wagon]

Behold the fun stuff

[blissful harbor]

ellina takes some, she says it makes her feel energetic
joni took enough to completely change her insides into lifeblood

[muted lantern]

The fabled rune of big ass

[trail wagon]

wdym by "single dose"?

[craggy smelt]

I think it takes prolonged heavy usage
just a little bit is okay

[blissful harbor]

hornet is specially immune but she notes enough of it will have negating effects, probably similar to joni

[lean temple]

Hunter also tries some iirc

[muted lantern]

as in, like injecting it once?

[trail wagon]

But like how much? Like one Hornet does?

[unique canopy]

If you go to Yarnaby while under overdose, Hornet says it's a struggle to keep her mind from slipping

[muted lantern]

yeah one full injection of plasmium from the same tool is what id consider a dose

[craggy smelt]

I wish they'd kept that quest where you gather different types of blood from across Pharloom
make that an aspect of why it eventually goes crazy

[trail wagon]

Looks kinda like...

[craggy smelt]

very music-note yea

[lean temple]

Pharloom's cocoon symbol looks like that

[trail wagon]

Hmmm..I think it would probably take more, though I honestly think Zylotol didn't inject the bugs with Plasmium

[muted lantern]

in that case did zango inject the same bugs multiple times? or did they feed off the growing plasmium blooms around it to get so infested.

[trail wagon]

Not really the same tbh

[muted lantern]

zylotol said he's been injecting the wormway bugs

as well as seeding it around the area

[trail wagon]

oh okay

I forgor

[craggy smelt]

they were said to be injecting it into local wildlife, and all around making it proliferate faster than it would normally

[muted lantern]

fair enough, i only remember it because i just did the quest again on my second playthrough

[trail wagon]

Did he say he actually injected the bugs with it?

Or like in general

[muted lantern]

he said he tested it on the beasts of the wormways and observed no ill effects

[craggy smelt]

My assistant and I have been injecting Plasmium into the local flora and fauna since we arrived. No ill effects have been observed, and so we can conclude that the process is utterly, completely safe.

because he's an idiot

[muted lantern]

but you wouldnt say one injection is enough to be harmful?

[trail wagon]

fauna too

and flora

[trail wagon]

Hope we'll see more in the Lab

[muted lantern]

as in like if he just injected a bug once and the bugs werent feeding off one another and the injected flora would it have not mutated?

[trail wagon]

Maybe it would become visible over time

Hornet can't be used for comparison, she's a very powerful being, I suppose

[muted lantern]

basically im trying to determine if a random pilgrim took one hit of lifeblood would they be guarunteed to mutate.

[craggy smelt]

nah
Hornet admits its power is alluring, and that it has benefits
they can be outweighed, but if it were completely negative I doubt she'd want to use it at all

[trail wagon]

I think various bug species might be affected differently

[muted lantern]

for hornet that might be due to her unique nature tho, for the average pilgrim is what im wondering

[trail wagon]

Also.. unlike Radiance's infection, the Lifeblood infection also modifies their bodies significantly

[inner torrent]

I mean, radiance's infection can do that

It just does it less

[craggy smelt]

well, if hugely negative effects and mutations were immediate and obvious, Zylotol probably wouldn't have gone as far as he eventually did
it seems like it built up gradually in the Wormways, and then hit an oversaturation point
then things really went to hell

[trail wagon]

They got wingies :3

[muted lantern]

good for them...

[unique canopy]

Given the Wormways was their base of operations and it takes until act 3 for creatures to start mutating, including Zylotol himself, I'd say even with random pilgrims a small amount wouldn't hurt them. It would be long-term use or large amounts that would start mutating.

[craggy smelt]

see, they're fine, they love it

[trail wagon]

ahahahaha

I like them plasmified more

[trail wagon]

It might also be addictive

[inner torrent]

Who wouldn't get addicted to life in a phial

[craggy smelt]

yeah, I could see that

[muted lantern]

the mutation could just take a while, or be triggered by some extreme situation, like the joy pills from Lisa the painful. I guess my general question is if hornet like used lifeblood to save a pilgrims life, would she be dooming them to a for certain mutation.

[craggy smelt]

I doubt it, I think in smaller doses it's safe and even genuinely beneficial

[muted lantern]

Yeah that makes sense i guess, wasnt it used recreationally in hallownest? then again people use drugs that will defo kill them all the time irl

[inner torrent]

That's interesting as that's exactly the premise of one of my oc's

[blissful harbor]

it’s use in hallownest was restricted tbf

[inner torrent]

A ladybug that got a lethal wound and survived it through lifeblood consumption

[blissful harbor]

PK didnt wanna deal with the fucking apocalypse it would’ve caused

[trail wagon]

yeah actually, I personally felt like Zylotol developed additiction to lifeblood and started taking more

[craggy smelt]

it was considered 'a bit of a taboo' according to Salubra, but Joni was a big fan of it and shows no signs of advanced mutation
seems like an 'ilicit substance' deal

[muted lantern]

Haha, same, it's why Im asking.

[trail wagon]

I really hope we'll get Zylotol's master as a super lifeblood boss

[inner torrent]

Do you think Joni is a special bug?

[blissful harbor]

no advanced signs
her entire insides are lifeblood

[trail wagon]

or perhaps some other cool ass lifeblood boss

maybe

[craggy smelt]

Yarnaby says it's fine

Bzzt! Maybe overtaken is good? Better even? Why go thinking yours is a mind so precious?
The great Yarnaby treats the sick! Not those that benefit from their afflictions. Enjoy its advantage and leave me in peace!
and she's a doctor

[inner torrent]

I saw a concept for a Joni boss

[trail wagon]

plasmified groal

[trail wagon]

fan concept?

[inner torrent]

Yep

[muted lantern]

Didnt it say somewhere that all of her internal organs were turned into plasmium?

[craggy smelt]

or that was her wish, at any rate
I don't think she got quite as far along as Zylotol did
though maybe she was well on her way, given the state of her cavern

[craggy smelt]

the Joni's Blessing charm converts the wearer's vital fluids into lifeblood
depending on the nature of the charm, that might be Joni's dying wish, or the power of lifeblood itself

[trail wagon]

I drew some lifeblood enemies back in 2018

[trail wagon]

drawned omg

[inner torrent]

I'm very curious of what's "Acid lifeblood"

[narrow horizon]

..drew?

[craggy smelt]

drewn

[trail wagon]

ahahahahha

dren

[inner torrent]

You could have just stabbed them bro

[trail wagon]

who

[inner torrent]

It was a joke because of the drowned oc

[trail wagon]

oh

[inner torrent]

Anyway, my idea for this glowing lifeblood showed in silksong is, it's basically cancer in a little form

Normal lifeblood heals, but what if it overheals? At contact it destroys cells by a rapid overproduction, assimiliating acid

[trail wagon]

I hope we won't get this as a DLC

I want a game

[inner torrent]

That's literally what I expect lol

[trail wagon]

It would so funny if they actually decide to make the third game about steel masters, and there would be Sharpe

[craggy smelt]

"gallery~!"

[narrow horizon]

People use meths as medicine for ADHD and other conditions, and weed is used for medicinal purposes to help with anxiety, and fentanyl is a product used for dealing with pain and administering anesthesia, and the list goes on

[trail wagon]

Riiight

[inner torrent]

Omg weavenest marina sounds peak

[trail wagon]

Idk where this idea came from but I really like it

[muted lantern]

NO DON'T SAY IT, TEAM CHERRY WILL TAKE 10 MORE YEARS

[inner torrent]

Wait guys, do you remember the lifeblood concepts of silksong?

[trail wagon]

I don't think we'll get that to be frank. I think the whole build-up about masters suggests they want to make a separate game about it

[narrow horizon]

our only exposure to lifeblood is in uncontrolled and unmonitered ways, meaning our knowledge on it's actual value or danger is incomplete

[trail wagon]

I know

[blissful harbor]

sharpe game would be peak

[craggy smelt]

i wonder if the City would be more mechanical/technological like the Citadel, or closer to like liquid metal/memory metal, i.e. something more fantastical

[trail wagon]

Lifeblood spire?

[narrow horizon]

Pablo

[blissful harbor]

whoever made this actually cooked wait

[trail wagon]

What I wanted to say is that it would be hilarious for TC to add Sharpe to the third game, and if it takes like 10 more years, it would mean that the person who created this character will finally see it in the game after... 20 years 😭😭😭

It's already been like 10 years

I believe he made the donation in 2015

[narrow horizon]

ok so everyone ignores this and moves on ig i'll just die

[unique canopy]

The closest irl comparison is probably anabolic steroids. They're used medically especially to help the body heal after injuries, their initial use in athletics was to help the body heal after workouts which resulted in bigger muscles, and steroid abuse resulted in behavioral problems and unnatural physiques that ironically increased injury risk because the extra muscle mass was easier to tear from bone, plus increased injury risk on the bones and ligaments themselves because they weren't able to catch up with the muscle growth.

[trail wagon]

I'm sorry :c

[inner torrent]

Sharpe will be the protagonist of the next game guys

[craggy smelt]

that's why he got cut~!

it makes sense

Hollow Knight: Sharpesong

[trail wagon]

Here, take this and this

[trail wagon]

nooo I don't think

[trail wagon]

It could be the case btw

But hooonestly

He was initially designed to hunt Hornet

[craggy smelt]

yeah, I really think it was just cut because TC wanted steel stuff to be a lot bigger, so they rolled it back to save for a DLC campaign

same deal with lifeblood stuff I'm hopin

[trail wagon]

OR for the third game 🤓 ☝🏻

[limpid summit]

Jaspal had better get his money’s worth tenfold

Steel dlc should blow us away

And it will

[trail wagon]

I think it may make sense for the "godhome" DLC

[craggy smelt]

how much did it actually cost anyway? what was the tier he bought it at

[narrow horizon]

I wasn't necessarily comparing the drugs themselves to the same properties as lifeblood, i was moreso showing how there are many examples of how very dangerous and potentially deadly things are also used as extremely important medicines that are commonly used (in regulation). The issue with lifeblood, and our notions about it, is that we just don't know enough of how it works, what it does, and how or even if we can use it safely. All of our examples of it as a substance have either been from charms, which are... weird and not exactly studied sciences but rather physical manifestations of things and weird voodoo shit OR from a crazed scientist experimenting with it in uncontrolled ways while harvesting the raw resource with 0 processing (that we know of, he could be making the effects worse even)

holy yap mb

[narrow horizon]

thanks pookie

[unique canopy]

Yeah I agree completely, I was more trying to expand on your point by bringing up a closer example

[trail wagon]

[narrow horizon]

yeyeye 👍👍

and that is a good comparison based on what we've seen of it

[trail wagon]

Hornet is actually a goat

[visual glacier]

600 I think

[visual glacier]

That’s about 400 usd

[craggy smelt]

man, if only I'd know back in 2014 or whenever

I would totally have paid that

[visual glacier]

But would you have paid it if you were in your 2014 brain?

[craggy smelt]

I wonder

would 2014 me have recognized the seeds of greatness?

I didn't find the game until like a month before Hidden Dreams was released

alas

seen a lot of people act like Jaspal should be outraged by Sharpe's removal
but all I think of if it were me, I'd be like 'hey TC, what gives?' and if they were like 'DLC man, but don't tell anybody' then I'd be 'awesome, np'

[visual glacier]

It would be so hard for me to not tell anyone

[unique canopy]

That's probably what they did and why he's been quiet about it

[craggy smelt]

wiki says his wife told him about it, he didn't even know

he probably doesn't even care, he'd be like "What, that bug game thing I bought like 10 years ago? I'm married now, I got a wife and kids, who cares."

[inner torrent]

The lifeblood spire will always haunt me

[inner torrent]

I mean she said he said he was going to get in contact about it

[unique canopy]

tbf if I had a wife and kids a $600 refund would be pretty nice

[inner torrent]

Yeah yeah

[craggy smelt]

oof

real world problems, intruding

speaking of, my wretched flesh needs feeding

[trail wagon]

Why?

[visual glacier]

Wdym

[trail wagon]

What is this??

Why is it there

[visual glacier]

It’s just a cloth

[trail wagon]

nooo

the room

[visual glacier]

Ohhh the cag

The cage

Hmmm idk

[trail wagon]

whose cag

[foggy fractal]

some sections of rooms are just kinda there for no reason

[inner torrent]

I'm NGL I love silksong but, I really crave for how homogenous it is, I know it makes more sense but

[trail wagon]

wdym

Also, do all being Hornet has bound cease to exist after being bound? I believe there was something saying their consiousness exists as an addition to the mind of the one who bound them (?)

Cause Hornet's head be like

[inner torrent]

You know how the first ideas of pharloom was this super colourful kingdom where you could clash from being in a beautiful red and blue coral waterfalls to a beautiful section of green clovers to the golden citadel

[limpid summit]

I think she said that specifically about Eva because she was so powerful

Other things she binds are either too weak or submit willingly

[inner torrent]

I know it doesn't make much sense lore wise bus visually it was a very interesting premise

[limpid summit]

That’s probably why her binding GMS doesn’t entirely work

[inner torrent]

It technically works don't? It needs to first weaken her and the effects on her body are absurd

[inner torrent]

Peak

I love how gms arm is there

[trail wagon]

Oh yeah

[trail wagon]

Not really

I mean

It would make the Citadel completely different

Like its impact on the world would be much less noticeable, which is why they decided to scrap it

[inner torrent]

I just realized something, the shaman's didn't just suck lace and gms, they sucked the whole white silk egg she was sleeping into

[trail wagon]

The Citadel's existence wouldn't seem as impactful and destructive

[trail wagon]

wdym?

[inner torrent]

Yep

[trail wagon]

Like the cacoon?

[inner torrent]

When we get to the lost lace fight you can see you are entering the cocoon gms was sleeping in her act 2 fights

[trail wagon]

Ohh yeah, you're right

But I'm not sure if it's the old one

I thought it was GMS creating a new one

[blissful harbor]

no, the whole point is that silk is constantly making a new one around her to protect herself and lace
we see the tentacles drag just her down there, idk why it would be the old one

[trail wagon]

Oh yeah, that

She tears the first one apart before fighting Hornet

[inner torrent]

Good point

[trail wagon]

Was I the only one who was wondering why there are cogs in the Greymoor's cellar?

It's because there used to be a bench right above it

[muted lantern]

ooh good catch!

theres a lot of really subtle details in the maps

[trail wagon]

Yeah, and I'm really happy they actually put some thoughts into that

[inner torrent]

Oooh so that's what the hole is for

[trail wagon]

yeah

[visual glacier]

7 years

[trail wagon]

I mean fair

But still, it's not there just to look cool

[visual glacier]

Yeah the world building and details are so cool

[trail wagon]

yeaaah

[inner torrent]

Have you guys realized in hunters atla there are literally ELECTRICITY

They used wires, which I guess function with silk and soul, but WIRES

[trail wagon]

I'm not sure why you think there's electricity

[unique canopy]

Wonder if this means that tower used to be a normal rest site back in the days of the lush farmland, before the Citadel turned it all into silk catching.

[trail wagon]

The benches look like they were constructed by the Citadel imo

Plus they have bells on them, which makes me think they were constructed after the Citadel was built, because they are also used to play the song

[unique canopy]

Yeah but the Citadel era spanned a long time, and presumably the silk catching was instituted relatively late, when enough silk waste was going around in the air and water.

[trail wagon]

Oh, you're right

[random aspen]

whos that one next to first sinner and wanderer crest

[dawn gyro]

thats eva

[random aspen]

ohhh

[fathom hill]

found it https://www.reddit.com/r/Silksong/comments/1ep3obs/has_anyone_noticed_these_symbols_that_appear_when/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

[limpid summit]

Reaper wanderer architect beast witch and shaman is funny

Pretty good attention to detail

[fathom hill]

i had to go through like 1000 messages for this one post

prolly would have been easier to just find on the internet

i dont mind

[limpid summit]

Shit could these be music notes??

Maybe we’ll get more song content

[fathom hill]

the zote reacts made me scared that i was sharing a silkpost

its not

anyways again i stand that these were prolly scrapped cuz it would have been too cluttered

[trail wagon]

whaaaat omg

[trail wagon]

Weeeell they're different, that's for sure

[fathom hill]

some of them are different

[trail wagon]

hhhhm

[fathom hill]

no wait

they are kind of different

[trail wagon]

I'm wondering if it was the case in one of the first demos

Like idk if these symbols were there in the first demo

[fathom hill]

i mean theyre obviously runes of some kind, like the ones that trigger with the bell tool thing

if im not mistaken

but also serve some more mundane particle purpose since

whats so magical abt falling in lava

[fathom hill]

dude had sources

https://www.reddit.com/r/Silksong/comments/1ep3obs/comment/lhhw21j/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

one could check

[trail wagon]

Oh yeah lol

Wait

it doens't happen now, right?

[fathom hill]

nope

not the lava thing ig

cuz i checked

[trail wagon]

Omg the old version looks so chopped compared to the final game

WHAT IS THAT FLEA SOUND OMG

[mint stratus]

Mount fay is a dormant volcano and that’s why there’s magma in deep docks: a theory

[dawn gyro]

wait done those symbols appears when u get hit w/ magma bel?

[fathom hill]

im guessing yah

havent checked though

oh idk magma bell

i meant the other one

[mint stratus]

Warding bell?

[fathom hill]

yah

[silk dirge]

they could easily just be placeholders

[fathom hill]

maybe

or scrapped content

[silk dirge]

i mean they all were cut

so they dont mean anything

[fathom hill]

or scrapped pretty particles

[dawn gyro]

yeah in the magma bell particles

[fathom hill]

real cool

maybe the whole bell thing was more prominent before

[dawn gyro]

might be like rune particles yknow? since ruens are a powerful thing so it could be like a broken rune

[fathom hill]

as some speculated back in the og post

[fathom hill]

ah yeah those are runes totally

the thing is why in lava ig

[dawn gyro]

the magma bell rune ig just generally breaks when in contact with flame/magma

but wuickly reseals after

yea runes seemed to be a lot more important before release as the bell benches had seals on them and such

with those seals having to be broken to fight GMS and so on and so forth

that probably changed though I would think at around the time phantom became an idea

given u can skip needing to activate every bell shrine w/ phantom route

[trail wagon]

oh you're right

I think if the steel enemies ever come back they won't have these

[dawn gyro]

also im p sure when u open up a bekl shrine and it does the final DONG you can see some of the warped particles you see when u get hit w/ the warding bell

[trail wagon]

because they look a lot like runes, and runes are suggested to be the Weavers' thing

[dawn gyro]

yeah, makes me wonder if herrah had much more involvement with the sealing of the hollow knight in teh black egg with the seal itself

given its already kinda apparent they taught the pure vessel rune rage

[trail wagon]

It's been thought for a while that the weavers were the ones who made it

Because you can see a seal similar to the one in Path of Pain somewhere in Deepnest

[dawn gyro]

also very random tiny piece of lore but why is this random pilgrim guide in the marrow jail

[trail wagon]

They definitely were involved in a lot of ways

[dawn gyro]

likes hes locked up there

[trail wagon]

No idea, the same goes for Grindle

[dawn gyro]

well grindle is a theif so he kinda makes sense

but what did the guide do

[trail wagon]

Yeah, but WHO locked him up?

[dawn gyro]

no idea, possibly some slab bugs who abandoned the marrow jail given thres the same kind of cages in the marrow jail

[trail wagon]

Hmmm, perhaps

[dawn gyro]

not to mention the same symbol for the signs