sk-lore

[nimble warren]

yeah 100%

[fathom hill]

yes

phantom gender is hot rn

[visual glacier]

No

[twin dragon]

a vessillion dollars

[nimble warren]

add second sentinel in there

[silk dirge]

wait why is greenpath vessel he/him

[twin dragon]

clink indentifies as a clanker

[silk dirge]

what did i miss

[nimble warren]

they

[fathom hill]

vibes

[twin dragon]

therefore clink/clank

[lone folio]

He has a soul though

[sinful nimbus]

I made it up

[fathom hill]

isnt that what gender is mostly anyways

just vibes

[sinful nimbus]

GP gender is unknown

[twin dragon]

that's not clinks

since that soul is prob a bunch of silkflies

fraud

[sinful nimbus]

Gender is basically arbitrary yes

[frosty gate]

https://tenor.com/view/senator-armstrong-armstrong-metal-gear-rising-mgr-speech-bubble-gif-25397532

[lone folio]

One silkfly but ok

[frosty gate]

It'll get deleted but its funny

[twin dragon]

lemme save that rq

[fathom hill]

no way star being based?

[twin dragon]

thank you

https://tenor.com/view/senator-armstrong-armstrong-metal-gear-rising-mgr-speech-bubble-gif-25397532

[fathom hill]

I like yall, yall are cool

anyways

[twin dragon]

can we talk about how the sky in pharloom is actually unn

[sinful nimbus]

Go on

[twin dragon]

or how zote beat gms

[twin dragon]

so yknow you see unn once right?

in one room

you also see the sky in the surface

one room

therefore

the sky is unn

also unn is sticky and could stick to up

[nimble warren]

WHAT is this lore discussion

[silk dirge]

what

[sinful nimbus]

I respect your interpretation

[twin dragon]

and pharloom also live

BUT THATS NOT ALL1

far fields has similar onion ass organisms

[frosty gate]

We have run out of topics, this is what happens

[twin dragon]

its also far

the rest of FAR fields has been reduced to ash

by the kingdoms or gms or citadel etc etc

so pharloom was all FIELDS

fields dreamed by the SKY

therefore unn is not only present in pharloom, but in the sky aswell

[nimble warren]

is einstein really dead

[twin dragon]

since we have all the evidence in the world to prove

that far fields came from the sky

[fathom hill]

yknow how this herald dialogue

[lone folio]

Okay time for some real lore now.... So what's upp with the far sights similarity to a wyrm, it has some sort of sight ability and looks like wyrm teeth.. Or am I going absolutely insane

[fathom hill]

aint that nice

[visual glacier]

What about it

[twin dragon]

mossbag take

unoriginal

[sinful nimbus]

I think the similarity is superficial if you look at the two closely

[twin dragon]

get that out of here

[nimble warren]

YOURE NOT INSANE

[lone folio]

I thought of it first. The moment I picked it upp I went fucking insane

[twin dragon]

then dont

[dusky bay]

I see herald as a drunk mushroom

[twin dragon]

as it is a mere coincidence

[frosty gate]

Completely unrelated but what do we think about Verdania in the Memorium growing beyond its enclosure because Gay Prince 2 was near?

[fathom hill]

The whole not let yourself blind by the uncertainty of future, to look into your fellow bug now

tied a bit with the apocalypse aspect of the vid i was discussing like an hour ago

[twin dragon]

also it has NOTHING to do with wyrm's foresight conceptually

[twin dragon]

Its probably because GP's doomer energy was holding it back

[lone folio]

Oh in this cutscene it doesn't look like wyrm

[sinful nimbus]

I like the idea that foresight is like an advanced form of world sense/farsight

[twin dragon]

now that gay prince 2 is dead it can regrow

[lone folio]

Hmmm

[fathom hill]

High

[frosty gate]

No I mean, the spot in the Memorium, the one that got out of control

[visual glacier]

Cogwork dancers isn’t green prince 2

[twin dragon]

Might be verdania fauna n flora

[fathom hill]

Yah

[twin dragon]

since remember that shit grew in a cave

it could adapt rlly well

[frosty gate]

CogDancers has the soul of the Gay Prince that died

[fathom hill]

horns make catalyst for future sight

[visual glacier]

It’s a “parody” made of a mould from his soul and shell

[fathom hill]

actually who made that device? the weavers?

[twin dragon]

yeah

to spy on gms presumably

[fathom hill]

huh

[twin dragon]

"sisters make weavenests in the most hidden of places"

[fathom hill]

What is the chance weavers ever interacted with wyrm

[frosty gate]

Yeah, his soul

[twin dragon]

and a few weavers said "bet"

[lone folio]

Though I shouldnt trust myself when I sense a theory since when I saw whitewrd I thought "oh I wonder if it has something to do with pale king" LIKE I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHERE I GOT THAT IDEA FROM IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE YET I STARTED TO GET EXCITED TO LEARN PK LORE 😭

[visual glacier]

That’s not him

[twin dragon]

and fkin

[frosty gate]

But it's his soul

[twin dragon]

went to the abyss

[visual glacier]

Would you say second sentinel is the same person that had the silk fly made of them?

No

[fathom hill]

I mean

they do maintain their memories

[lone folio]

His soul is in it, green prince litterly says so

[twin dragon]

i mean weaversong states that the weavers left hallownest to go back to pharloom

[frosty gate]

Second Sentinel doesn't have half of whatever power entails being an "Old Heart"

[sinful nimbus]

??

[fathom hill]

cue the huhh silkflies seemingly lamenting they can still remember in whiteward or something

[visual glacier]

So you’re saying soul in a construct ≠ soul in a construct?

[twin dragon]

But we don't rlly get much from it

[fathom hill]

So their identity seems to be in there somehow, just different

[twin dragon]

since all we know weavers left and never came back

some of them did

some of them became mummies

[frosty gate]

Was Second Sentinel someone with a strong aura that kept a Kingdom alive in some way?

[lone folio]

Guys I have a theory: glorkishjames is not glorkishjames

[twin dragon]

some of them got their mask ripped off

[visual glacier]

What’s the difference

[twin dragon]

2nd sentinel is the first ruler of pharloom

i can prove it

[visual glacier]

Why would one be the same person and the other not

[lone folio]

Well no he's the second

[twin dragon]

gms was inside the 2nd sentinel's armor this entire time

1st sentinel was a puppet leader

[frosty gate]

I'm not arguing that Cog Dancer is Gay Prince 2

[lone folio]

Guys 2nd Sentinel was 3rd Sentinel all along

[timber pond]

You know what WOULD give you pale king lore? If THK shows up again

[visual glacier]

Also a single cogwork dancer is only 1/4 the power of an old heart

Assuming it’s utilized

[twin dragon]

not the POWERSCALING or POWER MEASURING

[lone folio]

He won't i dont believe in your propaganda

[silk dirge]

bro what

[twin dragon]

IT WONT MAKE SENSE

IT DOESNT

[visual glacier]

It’s true

[twin dragon]

I was there, can confirm

[lone folio]

YO THIS IS SO FIRE

[frosty gate]

I'm arguing that Verdania is reacting to the soul of one of its Rulers being close

[sinful nimbus]

uhhhhh huh?

[twin dragon]

actually could be somewhat valid

[fathom hill]

damn now some real lore

[twin dragon]

or it might've suffered a gradual decay because of this same reason

[timber pond]

I mean, he is the only one with memories of the pale king

[visual glacier]

Wiki don’t lie(don’t look at who added that ok)

[twin dragon]

and Gay prince 2 could've been holding back it's regrowth

[fathom hill]

now this is the high quality analysis im not here for 🔥

[twin dragon]

due to him unwilling to accept and move on

which is totally fair

[frosty gate]

What?

[frosty gate]

I mean yes, actual Verdania died after its two rulers left

[silk dirge]

link to the video if you want it https://youtu.be/hvnSK_cJrac?si=pW3FmeNVV6-cZ16T

this is actually crazy

[frosty gate]

I'm talking about Memorium Verdania

[visual glacier]

Hornet says it herself

No way those wilds could be contained in an artificial space

“From the outset, theirs was a hopeless task. Those wild lands could never be replicated within a space so artificial.”

[frosty gate]

I mean yeah sure that doesn't deny that the thing could react to its Prince.
The damn thing didn't regrow on its own in ACTUAL Verdania, not until both Princes were there

And properly disposed of

[lone folio]

I watched the entire thing

Best 5 minutes and 19 seconds of my life

[fathom hill]

no spoilers pls im watching it

[lone folio]

Karl Marx dies in act 66

[silk dirge]

this is better than the fucking act 4 video

the act 4 video was crazy but this beats it

[edgy river]

Didn't Unn create life? It seems like a lot of higher beings in general can create life

The Nightmare Heart seems to have created the life of it's vessel as well

[visual glacier]

Unn and the radiance created life

[fathom hill]

if only the theorizer played videogames

wed have the trilogy of insane silksong speculation

[edgy river]

I don't think we have enough information to make sure pale beings are connected to the use of soul.

Shammans use soul and are not higher beings and we know very little about PKs connection to Soul. Ig the shells of the vessels has soul which is somewhat weird but still

[sinful nimbus]

All his children are soul mages

Kingsoul, a charm he created, also creates infinite soul and there's a ton of soul tech in the palace

[visual glacier]

I mean kingsoul and gms

[edgy river]

If ur talking about the act 4 video im thinking of, it was a masterpiece tbh. I need to do it in my SteelSoul save

[lone folio]

Indeed

[edgy river]

Isn't there soul totems in abyss as well? Also even the soul masters experiments were able to store soul. It doesn't seem that special to me

[lone folio]

HE PREDICTED IT

HE KNOWS

[edgy river]

With shammans being the biggest exception, if we don't know much about them but it doesn't seem like they are pale beings

[lone folio]

wait this is the wrong karl Marx

Dang it

[fathom hill]

yah the thumbnail is clickbait

[lilac hedge]

Who told you they wer

[sinful nimbus]

The extent of Soul Sanctum's soul technology is the lore tablets

[lone folio]

They defently aren't

[fathom hill]

anyways something something revolution of the underworkers in act 4 believe

[sinful nimbus]

There are soul totems in the abyss because the ancient civilization were presumably skilled with soul usage yes

[edgy river]

Don't they store soul in little glass containers?

[sinful nimbus]

And I don't believe all soul users are pale beings but I do believe all pale beings are soul users

[lone folio]

And desolate dive but that's pathetic shit lore tablets are so much more powerful

[sinful nimbus]

That's not particularly impressive

[visual glacier]

Fucking stilkin did that

[edgy river]

That would make sense ig

[lone folio]

God why didn't the pale king just trap the radiance in a lore tablet

[sinful nimbus]

They also needed a ton of of real living bugs to extract that

Soul Totems just seem to draw it in from the environment

[lone folio]

Yes

👍

[edgy river]

They are intelligent enough to break every bench in a 15 miles radius i think they are a very advanced species

[frosty gate]

It's because of the Pale Aura

[lone folio]

We also need to wake upp the people to the fact that not all pale bugs are higher beings or blessed by higher beings

[edgy river]

(I'm joking in this case, tbc)

[lone folio]

Unfortunately mossbag said it once and people treat his videos like lore tablets even though they are sometimes as accurate as mask maker 1

[fathom hill]

this abt the pale lurker?

[lone folio]

Pale lurker doesn't exist

[fathom hill]

i do believe that pale gives you some kind of divinity imo

[visual glacier]

Not all pale beings are higher beings and not all pale bugs are pale beings

[fathom hill]

unless you say all wyrms are higher

[lone folio]

Not Divinity just better soul manipulation which is still pretty powerful

[lone folio]

Probably yeah

Mister mushroom talks about multiple different wyrms making kingdoms

[fathom hill]

Oh we talked abt this some days back

[edgy river]

Huh, so are soul totems smth like soul absorption/transportation tech instead of containers? Like when you hit them, they use the mechanical force to absorve soul from the lives around them and pass them to you?

If so, it may be that the soul totems in White Palace aren't special but the white palace somehow emanates soul or whatever?

[lone folio]

Would be pretty boring if they are all just pale though

[fathom hill]

I wonder if the instances on which pale is said or shown mean something

[visual glacier]

Sylphean slugs are somewhat pale

[fathom hill]

Hornet calls Lace a pale child, does that make her pale, or just white?

[edgy river]

Never thought about it like that, is this a possible interpretation of the lore?

[fathom hill]

or just a child of a pale being

[frosty gate]

The Pale Aura

[lilac hedge]

Lot of brightness

[stable violet]

this convo is getting quite pale ngl

[fathom hill]

I meant instances

Pale is said very sparingly to mean things (ik cuz i checked )

[sinful nimbus]

I think the hitting is just extracting it

[lone folio]

There is yeah.. Atleast most cases (pale lurker isnt real they can't hurt me)

[sinful nimbus]

And it ambiently absorbs it since it takes a while to recharge

[edgy river]

I think people in SS refer to PK as "white wyrm" and in HK we hear about the "battle of the black wyrm"

So ig PK is a pale wyrm and this other one is not

[frosty gate]

I wonder if others can do that

[fathom hill]

Yah, the word Pale means things, it means a certain kind of state

I'd say the Pale lurker is indeed some kind of pale being

Unless it's proven otherwise

[edgy river]

It may be that there are pale beings that are not white but that seems like a stretch, so I think it's likely not every wyrm is a pale being

[lone folio]

Blackwyrm shouldn't be taken into consideration all that much until we get more evidence for it being an actual wyrm

[fathom hill]

Also it's blackwyrm not black wyrm I'm sure

names matter in this game

tc likes to keep thing ambiguous and weird

[frosty gate]

Or Nonsensical, depending on the mood

[lone folio]

That's why I didn't add the space

I was gonna link the findings that scoot made about pale things but scoot doesn't seem to exist anymore

[edgy river]

Oh true it's Blackwyrm yeah

[lone folio]

Odd but alright and I shouldn't dwell on this for too long or else I will be sent to bilewater

[edgy river]

But still would be weird for me people refer to PK as the "White Wyrm" if every wyrm was pale

[edgy river]

In her case is more likely she has a connection to PK and thats why she has the world pale

Do we know much about Pale Ore / Pale Oil?

[lilac hedge]

Pale lurker is a she?

[edgy river]

And how (if so) it relates to Pale beings

[visual glacier]

Not in canon

Only in translations

[edgy river]

Is referred as a she in every translations so probably yeah

[sinful nimbus]

Team Cherry were asked about Pale Lurker and they legit said "Pale Lurker is more likely to be female than male"

Why they so obtuse 😭

[visual glacier]

Fem non binary

Maybe

[lilac hedge]

Bro its a bug calm down

[tepid mountain]

They seem to just not put a lot of importance on sex and gender tbh.

[edgy river]

Pale lurker is gender fluid with an average of 51% of the time as fem

[stable violet]

pale lurker sounds feminine to me so i call her a she

[lilac hedge]

They prob just make shit on the spot

[stable violet]

imma be real though i dont think its that deep, whats more interesting is why tf she was obsessed with a simple key

[lilac hedge]

And whatever they say make it canon along the way

[sinful nimbus]

i don't remember this one

[lilac hedge]

Holy ragebait

[stable violet]

grimm's face being a mask sounds more cursed then not being a mask ngl

[edgy river]

We are joking TC is clearly just being vague because they don't want to clear up any lore confusion outside the games themselves

[stable violet]

i choose to believe thats just part of their shell

[sinful nimbus]

I mean yeah grimmchild confirms that

[stable violet]

they did a great job with that for silksong story huh?

like plasmium

[sinful nimbus]

Face and mask are used interchangeably in Silksong though so maybe that's where they're coming from

[edgy river]

PK was right all this time

[stable violet]

mask/shell lore talk is a lot more confusing now thats for sure

[edgy river]

They cleared up a question and gave me 10 about the same topic

[stable violet]

they didnt really clear up tbh, they just kinda answered why it was taboo sure but that only makes more questions then answers

we still know nothing about the lifeblood beast

[edgy river]

"oh Plasmium can infect life forces in a way similar to the radiance, that's why PK made a Tabu"

"Wait why does it infect life in a way similar to the Radiance?????"

[sinful nimbus]

Not really "a bit of a taboo" innit

"Have you tried dipping your face in acid? Its a bit of a taboo"

[stable violet]

yeah i wouldnt call that "a bit"

thats for sure

thats something that is grounds to make a special detachment force to specifically stop it from spreading

[edgy river]

It's just a crawlid who has been infected by lifeblood for a billion years

[stable violet]

if you said shadow creeper id believe you more

[edgy river]

Can't be any of them because it is considered a higher being since it is in godhome

[visual glacier]

Shadow creepers are just primal crawlids anyways

[stable violet]

a crawlid isnt in godhome whats your point

[visual glacier]

So a billion years ago it would be a shadow creeper

[edgy river]

My point is that it isn't a crawlid or shadow creeper or any enemy and my "theory" there was a joke

[sinful nimbus]

Godhome doesn't only house higher beings

[edgy river]

Gods*

Sorry

I meant gods*

[sinful nimbus]

I'm not sure why a very strong shadow creeper couldn't be considered a god

[edgy river]

Ig could a being that is not a god transform into a god by a substance or smth

[sinful nimbus]

Soul Master is a regular dude who became stronger than normal through abusing soul

[edgy river]

If so, yeah ig it could happen

[edgy river]

True, the definition of "god" is absurdly weird in HK

[silk dirge]

shadow charger god

[edgy river]

Gruz Mother is just a pregnant fly and because of that its a god

[midnight zinc]

Both Unn, Radiance, and NMH are different cases, their life they create is out of dreams and essence. Essence and soul are interconnected but it appears to be through a different mechanism that they operate. I’ll admit the connection between the WL’s breeding and soul is a weak one.

[edgy river]

Tons of bugs have children which in a way create life, WL isn't special in that

[stable violet]

i feel like this is a very specific explanation about how a pale being and a higher being can operate

is what i would say if lace and phantom didnt exist

how a pale being and a higher being operate could have gotten an easy explanation if those 2 characters didnt exist

aka "higher beings can create life, pale beings just makes bugs that follow instinct smarter"

[edgy river]

GMS def manipulates soul in her own special way

PK is questionable

WL we know so little about that it's basically nothing

[stable violet]

but no

lace and phantom exist

so the debate about what makes a pale being and a higher being different is still up in the air

[edgy river]

It's probable that every pale beings may be able to use/interact with soul but doesn't seem like something that defines them, and other creatures can also do that (shammans)

[fathom hill]

still not sure how do they count as pale

Aside from the pale child thing

[tepid mountain]

They don’t.

[lone folio]

Well they are probably considered pale because they are made of silk which is related to soul which is also called pale. The difference is that they aren't "sylphean" which is probably the more accurate term for pale creatures

[blissful harbor]

how is PK questionable

he taught PV, who uses a whole assortment of soul spells
and made entire void mechs out of soul and void, soul elevators

like bro was The soul guy

[old dagger]

maybe pale beings can use their own innate soul to do things with soul, but we know from silksong that snail shamans have to use soul from the world and it takes a long time

so maybe any bug can do that too if they learned how (soul sanctum), but pale beings have it as in inherent skill?

[lone folio]

Also the bugs in soul sanctum need to actually get more soul into their bodies for some spell casting reason so sylphean bugs probably don't need to do that and can learn spells and soul magic naturally with no enchantments

[old dagger]

yeah exactly

[lethal burrow]

A God in the world of hollow night is the same as a god in our world,

things are only ever what they are called. A God is what is called a god and nothing less and nothing more.

[midnight zinc]

That wasn’t really my point but okay

[lone folio]

Snail shamans have probably just gotten very good at soul magic over a very long time unlike soul sanctum who just tried to brute force their way to soul magic

[stable violet]

that is not what i said at all

i did not say lace or phantom where pale beings

[midnight zinc]

Just saw this, bro was cooking (meth)

[stable violet]

i said that the distinction of a higher being an a pale being couldve been the way how they function aka a higher being creating life while a pale being just elevates already existing life by making them smarter

but because gms created lace and phantom

it means pale beings can also create life so that idea shot itself in the foot

meaning that the difference of higher being and a pale being is who knows

[lone folio]

There is some truth to this though I'm not sure how it would fit to what I have been saying which is that any bug can become pale/sylphean.

[midnight zinc]

This was what I was thinking, but I think there’s an explanation for this. GMS isn’t just a pale being, her use of silk makes her unique. Lace and Phantom are made out of silk, which is more tactile than soul. Pale beings can’t just make things out of soul because soul animates bodies, but it’s not a solid substance itself. Her use of silk gives her a physical tool to work with that she can spin life out of, and animates her creations with the soul in the silk. WL and PK don’t have this skill so they have to resort to the old fashioned way of making life

[lone folio]

I find this a very fun subject to talk about honestly

[midnight zinc]

So it’s less that it’s a hard rule that pale beings can’t create life and more than the ability to manipulate or generate soul is not enough, because soul is an animating force, not a tactile substance that you can form bodies out of, but silk is.

[stable violet]

wait

the hell is sylphean

[unique canopy]

All we know is that "sylphean slugs" produce the pale oil, and it shares "sylph" (a folklore air elemental spirit) with Eva's Sylphsong.

[lone folio]

A fancier word for pale which is probably more accurate to use when talking about pale bugs like pale stag and George Washington

[midnight zinc]

George Washington was a pale being?

[silk dirge]

my favorite silksong npc george washington

[midnight zinc]

Honestly I believe it

Established a powerful nation and owned slaves, it tracks

[stable violet]

so basically sylphean is to designate a slug that made pale oil/is a fancier word for pale which could also be given to pale bugs like palestag is what im hearing?

[unique canopy]

The jump from sylphean to a connection to pale beings is a pretty big leap until we know more. "Pale" has been applied as a simple colour description enough times.

Like irl a Sylph is an air elemental spirit, but we just had Wraiths as a common enemy so for all we know it could be something similar in-universe, let alone what it means to be sylphean. Not enough info right now to make connections.

[sinful nimbus]

Salubra's Blessing is a slug that is sylphean that produces infinite soul like Sylphsong...

Food for thought

[fathom hill]

\

now why did i type that

lmao

[frigid belfry]

pale also doesnt always refer to what we associate with pale beings, its been used to describe things whitish in color

[mint stratus]

Anyone wonder how the abilities to expand the minds/ bodies of bugs differs between higher beings?

Cause the Pale King is described as a beacon, while gms specifically expanded the minds and beings of the weavers

Like is that on account of wyrm inherent abilities meshing with paleness or just a difference in power?

[regal crow]

Why's void trobbio called tormented instead of lost?

[craggy smelt]

they aren't actually Void corrupted

just being dramatic

[regal crow]

Oh

Starving artist with no audience. Drama queen to the end

[craggy smelt]

and after

Trobbio will return in Act 4...

who knows in what new persona

[dry bridge]

could be a difference in intent as well, though wyrms seem to be somewhat different to the other pale beings we've seen anyway. GMS wanted daughters to serve & worship her, while PK wanted a kingdom to rule and worship him, and they worked to achieve those respective things

[regal crow]

Hopefully sane...er

[dawn gyro]

I theorize it might be because of an influx of soul, given silk in mentioned to be soul woven into strands of silk, so gms putting all that soul/silk into the bodies could have ascended their thought, additionally i believe this is what the soul sanctum was trying to achieve

[craggy smelt]

i like the idea of changing the body by messing around with Soul
Soul Sanctum did it wrong and caused the Follies and Mistakes, while Soul Master became more powerful
there was also that absolutely tantalizing line in the hunter's journal about the Follies/Mistakes hoping that the other scholars would build them new bodies

would that actually have been possible? Could you build a new body from scratch with the right application of Soul?

is that what Silk was doing to the pharlids, re-writing them mind and body by messing with their Soul via silk>?

[dawn gyro]

Exactly bro the additional silk/soul messed with the bodies and minds

However gms was successful because her soul manipulation was more controlled

Probably because she was a higher being

[frigid belfry]

explain this lore people

[dawn gyro]

Idk i haven't watched it yet but i also got recommended it

[craggy smelt]

it makes sense~!

[midnight zinc]

The knight unifying the shades under its will is a metaphor for the proletariat unifying against the bourgeoisie, aka the radiance. In this essay I will-

[midnight zinc]

I mean that’s basically what lace is

[unique canopy]

The failure of the Pale King's plan is a metaphor for the inevitable failure of the ruling classes to pit the working classes against each other, for the working class will always rise up and unify if they realize they must have a will of their own. The Pale King's four commandments reflect the four pillars of bourgeoise exploitation of the proletariat: financial reliance (no cost too great), lack of education (no mind to think), religious dogma (no will to break), and oppression of free speech (no voice to cry suffering).

[limpid summit]

Grim Trobbio

[craggy smelt]

the trobbio troupe...
will a third trobbio fight also wind up being the best in the game? I don't know...

[craggy smelt]

that's right

[limpid summit]

Trobbio is the second most wasted character lorewise but his fights are awesome

[craggy smelt]

lace's fights are pretty fun too, mechanics-wise, but it wasn't very exciting to get a third one
wouldn't mind trobbio showing up in some capacity though

maybe join the bug pipers as a more humble traveling showman

or showbug

[halcyon merlin]

first sinner second sentinel third lace fight fourth chorus

my favorite meme

[craggy smelt]

fifth beastfly fuuuu

[halcyon merlin]

😨

[craggy smelt]

Red Memory DLC bosses: Herrah, Vespa, and White Lady
that'd be... something else, certainly

[visual glacier]

How would herrah and white lady even work

[midnight zinc]

Tf white lady gonna do, lay eggs on me?

[dry bridge]

well herrah would probably be a weaver like first sinner and widow, but probably different to those two. White lady uh

well either she'd be more of an environmental boss like father of the flame or she'd have to get a lot more mobile real fast

[sinful nimbus]

how the heck does he beat any of the old hearts in the wasted potential department

[craggy smelt]

like Silk but roots

[lapis creek]

this is what im saying to be wasted he has to have potential

literally what would they have done with him

[timber pond]

DLC where we find out that Trobbios soul is in debt to the grim troupe or something because he fucked up a performance idk lol

[silk dirge]

like trobbio lore probably couldnt get more interesting than like

citadel wanted entertainment

so they hired a butterfly

[celest wagon]

i forgot, was putrified ducts somewhat involved to the citadel? (cuz of the structures and stuff)

[silk dirge]

yes

it likely used to be how they got water delivered from pale lake OR it was a sewer system they used to dumb shit on bilewater

[celest wagon]

ahh i see ty, interesting how big some of the creatures grew to be there

[prime scaffold]

Someone tell me what happens to dog

[lapis creek]

i remember when zaza was supposed to be the smart one

now hes just dog

[unique canopy]

There is a room with a needolin location that implies the area was a normal Citadel work area similar to Underworks, Greymoor, or Deep Docks, but was overrun by the noxious creatures. Whether it's because the Citadel used it as a sewer and the creatures sprang from that, or whether the creatures showed up first and turned the Ducts noxious isn't clearly stated, but with how it's right above Bilewater and how the Bilewater denizens blame the Citadel for the noxious environment, it leans more to the former imo.

[foggy fractal]

nothing, zaza just stays there next to dead garmond

[celest wagon]

makes sense

[visual glacier]

It’s definitely because the citadel dumped their waste in there

[mint stratus]

I mean zaza is pretty smart I just don’t think they can talk

[visual glacier]

The bilewater lore tablets explicitly call it waste

[silk dirge]

i mean those could just be referring to exhaust organ

[prime scaffold]

Shit will this always happen or does this happen for when im too late

[visual glacier]

Only when you’re too late

[muted lantern]

it happens when you don't do her quest before act 3. if you do it she will have dissapeared along with the eggs hatch, presumably surviving.

[prime scaffold]

Not my fault this quest is a hassle smh

[sinful nimbus]

50 hours of grinding enemies be upon ye

[halcyon merlin]

fine pin quest jumpscare

[quick geyser]

You can grind this quest in moss grotto

There is an area where 3 moss grubs are extremely close to each others, AND they are literally Oneshot

But still provide you with the same amount of ORGANS

[silk dirge]

ok tbh huntress quest is cool

i like that it has more than just "kill these specific enemies"

[prime scaffold]

why capitalize it

[quick geyser]

I feel the tendencies to do it

[prime scaffold]

Why they keep making me kill all the chill people

[edgy river]

Because hornet hates everyone and just goes around beating them up

[prime scaffold]

Well at least it was an easy fight

[trail wagon]

Gorge

Coral Gorge

[trail wagon]

I don't think you kill them

wait why are there the same messages

[trail wagon]

Did you send this in the other chat too? Or am I crazy...

[trail wagon]

and this omg

I've already responded to this

but probably in a different chat

😭

[trail wagon]

I haven't watched the video, however:

Basically, in ETV ending the Knight is merging with other siblings to create the Void Entity, or what's often referred to as the Shade Lord. This is a clear metaphorical representation of class solidarity

[sterile jacinth]

I think its shared trauma but ok

[prime scaffold]

If I take too long to beat the act 3 boss, will shakra die

[visual glacier]

Yes

[prime scaffold]

are you fr

[visual glacier]

No

Or maybe I am

Ok lore wise, shakra would die, gameplay wise she doesn’t

You asked in the lore channel

[midnight zinc]

Ohhhhh

[trail wagon]

Will Hornet die

[sterile jacinth]

Shakra and Hornet are fine

*alive

[trail wagon]

as of right now

What is the meaning of the word "Gendaa"?

[sterile jacinth]

Made up fantasy word idk :P

Something in Shakras language

[trail wagon]

gendaa

[lapis creek]

i am not as literature pilled as some others, but can something be a metaphor for shared trauma if the in-universe reason is literally a shared traumatic experience

[sterile jacinth]

That’s just my interpretation. In story they’re all made of void or at least have some aspect of void. Metaphorically i think it’s their trauma finally being realized or like justice or smth.

[muted lantern]

Shakra has a bunch of nonsense fantasy words in her language, i made a doc a while ago with my guesses as to what each means based on their context, mainly for writing purposes. Gendaa based on the one line in which it's used seems to be an expression of relief or maybe exasperation.

[trail wagon]

I require an expansion of this lore aspect analysis

[muted lantern]

I can send the list of words weve seen and what I think they mean if thats helpful

[trail wagon]

ahahahhaha

okay sure

[muted lantern]

I'll get em from a bit, once I get back to my PC, just gonna copy and paste from my doc

[prime scaffold]

I am slightly disappointed on this ending

I wanted to see how Pharloom healed and how everyone adapted at least a moment after

but nah all i got was yuri

So im never gonna beat the hardcore 1-life mode i already know that

but whats the context here

[trail wagon]

You need to get infected by the parasite

[edgy nebula]

this is the ending you get while beating gms when cursed with the parasite that gives you witch crest

[trail wagon]

You can find it in Bilewater, basically it takes away your ability to heal and use silk skills

[prime scaffold]

Whats the context that leads to this then

Like how did i turn into wood

[trail wagon]

Hornet is infected by the parasite

[trail wagon]

That's what the parasite does

[edgy nebula]

the parasite takes advantage of hornet and gms being weakened, taking over them both and taking over a large amount of the cradle and possibly the citadel

[trail wagon]

Basically it takes over Hornet and GMS and turns them into this wood/crust and then hatches

[trail wagon]

this is a better phrasing

[prime scaffold]

The thing the length of this video is so short, does it show the process in a cutscene or in-game animation? Or is it the moment i bind with GMS that the next cutscene is me like this

[edgy nebula]

it happens in the mini-cutscene where you bind gms, except instead of binding her and getting the crest tentacles sprout and grab both of them

cut to black and then cue the ending cutscene iirc

[timber pond]

Nah it ain't Yuri dawg, dont let the internet lie to you. Thier stations make that dynamic weird.

[edgy nebula]

greyroot has some pretty solid aura in this cutscene, still doesnt beat watcher at the edge though

[prime scaffold]

what is station

[prime scaffold]

Oh so this is how it looks like

Ey so i at this moment i binded with Grandmommy Silk,

does that mean at the end of act 3- Hornet is a god rn?

[edgy nebula]

gms doesnt bind herself to you, she simply gives you enough strength and silk to silk soar out of the abyss

[prime scaffold]

Kind of confused on this part

we were fighting moments in act 2 before this, why she comes save us now

[edgy nebula]

she wants to save lace

[timber pond]

Positions, as in who they represent. Lace is an immortal child Homonculus physically, and has been stunted mentally for a long time, who is technically an Aunt to Hornet if you look at the family tree. And Hornet is quasi- immortal and defines her previous partners in the raging conchfly journal entry as "Mates" in terms of reproduction. So she wouldn't really see Lace that way IMO.

[prime scaffold]

Wait, Hornet has mates?

[timber pond]

Had* she said she outlived them all

In the raging conchfly journal entry

[spark reef]

Can someone explain to me what the intended Pilgrim's path was?

[prime scaffold]

So why did Lace think she wasnt loved and that GMS wanted only Hornet

[prime scaffold]

is this in the menu?

[spark reef]

Cause we know that Blasted Steps was the intended point of entrance.

[prime scaffold]

Damn bro imagine being 90 and the love of your life is still in her 20s

[timber pond]

Its in the journal, the raging conchfly journal entry

[prime scaffold]

the benefits of dating an elf

[timber pond]

GMS never directly showed love to lace no matter what she did.

[edgy nebula]

moss grotto > the marrow > far fields > greymoor > bellhart > shellwood > blasted steps > citadel

[prime scaffold]

Is this what you're talking about

[trail wagon]

She's not here

[edgy nebula]

greyroot is the parasite

[timber pond]

The boss raging conchfly. Its a coral enemy

[spark reef]

But there's no entrance in moss grotto.

[solar tapir]

I wonder if she outlived everyone we seen in the first game

[spark reef]

The only 2 entrances we find to the outer world is from blasted steps.

[trail wagon]

Probably not, she gives Hornet enough silk to use silk soar, but I don't think she is completely bound

[spark reef]

or from the cradle.

[timber pond]

Can't really tell

[edgy nebula]

she transfers her consciousness into it presumably, being reborn through the lifeforce of the bugs she sticks the bud in

[trail wagon]

Exactly hahaha

[spark reef]

So how did the pilgrims get to bone bottom?

[edgy nebula]

🤷 imo it was probably somewhere around there, otherwise i dont see why bone bottom/pilgrims rest would exist

[trail wagon]

I think the bud is the parasite

[solar tapir]

Interesting to ponder about, events of silksong takes place long after first game

[spark reef]

That's what's confusing to me. Because the bugs transporting Hornet were doing so from Blasted Steps.

[edgy nebula]

the bud is the parasite, but greyroot somehow transfers her consciousness/mind into it, likely through weird witch shenanigans

[spark reef]

which leads to Grand gate.

[prime scaffold]

Talking bout this?

[timber pond]

We have no measuremnt of time or refence to that passage, so we cannot really speculate on how long it has been. Long enough perhaps for hornet to change, but how many Ages that is? Who knows.

[edgy nebula]

could just be the optimal way out of the kingdom, we know they werent headed for the steps anyway, they were heading into shellwood

[timber pond]

Yes

[trail wagon]

I thought it was her child (?) and she basically sacrificed herself to make it live

[prime scaffold]

Damn Hornet had love before sad

[trail wagon]

I think both are equaly plausible, it's not really explained

[edgy nebula]

it technically is, but in the chapel of the witch we see alot of petrified corpses, and pavo says this thing has been going on for awhile, it's pretty likely the case imo

[spark reef]

....if the bugs were supposed to bring Hornet to GMS, why would they be going to Shellwood?

[trail wagon]

Hornet should find some HB to date at this point

[spark reef]

Or am i wrong to assume that those bugs were haunted?

[edgy nebula]

maaaybe the bellways??? we dont really know

[spark reef]

great.

[solar tapir]

Some call her ancient, and yea she changed since the first game

[spark reef]

well, that's another mystery.

[trail wagon]

It's the only etrance?

[spark reef]

There were elevators that led above to the blasted steps.

[prime scaffold]

Well tbh if there is no Silksong DLC that goes off this, I can only presume a possible plan for an HK3 that includes Lace

[limpid summit]

Not exactly but there’s Bonegrave and the Chapel of the Wanderer

So it seems like that’s a beginning of the pilgrimage

[trail wagon]

?

it's the most direct path

[prime scaffold]

What map is this

[timber pond]

I would rather them Resolve what they want to do with The Hollow Knight first than a lace game. Leace feels like she would be far too similar to hornet, and is now dependent on hornets silk if they do travel.

[edgy nebula]

aura...

[prime scaffold]

Nah i dont think a Lace game, think just following Hornet again but with Lace as a companion

[timber pond]

As an Expansion? It is possible I suppose.

[prime scaffold]

If anything, naybe a buddy system where you switch between the two playstyles-- like in Spiderman 2

[trail wagon]

https://scripterswar.com/silksong/map

[prime scaffold]

Wow so detailed

[trail wagon]

Yeah, these are taken from the game

It's also very good

except for a couple of places but still

[spark reef]

@trail wagon but shellwood is not a direct route.

as a matter of fact, the only 2 places you can enter the citadel are via the grand gate or the exhaust organ.

And bilewater is anything BUT a direct route.

[solar tapir]

I doubt about third game at all. There simply nothing to tell about, unless theres completely different char, kingdom, story... But thats already just a new game entirely, just with the same title

[spark reef]

So unless the intention wasn't to bring Hornet to GMS, the Blasted Steps would be only easy way in.

OR if they were planning to use the Bellways.

[prime scaffold]

I think so

I believe in Silksong DLC but i dont think they will make expansions continuing off after the Lost Lace ending, at least i dont think they did that for HK1's aftermath

But didnt the Mushroom ending end with a "To be continued"?

[spark reef]

Which, given that Bell Beast was trapped in Marrow, I don't know how they would have managed to get to the Citadel.

[solar tapir]

This ending can be interpreted in any way. This fits with the mr.mushroom himself

[prime scaffold]

Is everything here uncute btw? Cuase i never seen most of these

[trail wagon]

It's cute, wdym

[prime scaffold]

uncut*

[trail wagon]

Ahahaha, no, all of that is in the game

[prime scaffold]

Anyone know what happened to bro here? Last time i saw him, the tunnel world was all blue and taken over, and he was breathing like out of a tube

was there a chance i go back and hes dead?

[muted lantern]

Poshanka: warriors greeting

Gendaa: relief or exasperation, used in response to hornet saying she has a solution to the black thread.

Bakkalo: dismissal, replying to hornet complimenting her mapmaking skills, she uses it in response before saying it is a simple thing all in her tribe know.

Un-daak: expression of pain, maybe an expression of being impressed, but pain seems more likely given context, said after duel like this “Un-daak… well struck”

Gara Takana: expletive, surprise, concern. Used when hornet meets her while cursed.

Nu-Hakkata: expression of disagreement/praise, used to refute when hornet says she does not know if her master would be proud of her.

Okklu-Din: affirmation/agreement? Praise perhaps? It is used in response to a question hornet asks before praising said questions perceptiveness.

Bakelo: dissapointment/acceptance, used in response to hornet refusing duel.

Dondakku: Derision, used when complaining about the poor defenses of a settlement, or deriding her self for misjudging pilgrims. A curse word perhaps?

Hakk: warning/be wary used when before talking about the curse afflicting bellhart.

Yokkala: Agreement/awe, thoughtful maybe? This one im not so certain. used when agreeing with hornets claims about the citadel being likely impressive due to the technology of the docks.

Ka, va!: lighthearted mocking/derision? Used when calling hornet foolish for swimming in maggot water.

Yakkanesh!: definitely a warning, used when warning hornet about haunted pilgrims.

[trail wagon]

The chance is 100%

[trail wagon]

He dies eventually

[prime scaffold]

but do we get to see

i wanna see him die

[trail wagon]

😭😭😭

[trail wagon]

Yes, after you complete his quest he drops to the ground

[humble peak]

go pay him a visit

[timber pond]

Bro becomes a source that dreams up more lifeblood💀

[prime scaffold]

ok well im good for now then, im done with the game guys idc bout most of the things i didnt see i finally get to focus in life again

time to fly away

Silksong isnt my GoTY winner soz

[trail wagon]

How about 100%

[trail wagon]

Have you done Lost Verdania? Nameless Town?

[prime scaffold]

i said idc bout most of the things

[prime scaffold]

What what

[trail wagon]

Hahahaa

[prime scaffold]

isnt verdania that green place with the green prince

[trail wagon]

Yes

Have you been there?

[prime scaffold]

done that yes, kinda mandatory

for act 3

[trail wagon]

Wdym

[prime scaffold]

dont you have to beat it to get act 3 done

[trail wagon]

It's not mandatory

[trail wagon]

Beat what??

[trail wagon]

Verdania? No

There are four hearts

You can beat Nyleth, Crust King Khann, Karmelita and Clover Dancers

You only need 3 hearts for the quest, so you get to keep one

[stray fog]

Hornet gets the fourth heart for the love of the game

For shits and giggles

[trail wagon]

Have you done Nameless Town?

[prime scaffold]

dont think so--

wait is it the flears

[trail wagon]

i didn't know about that btw

[stray fog]

Its where john shroom is

[trail wagon]

Huh?

[prime scaffold]

nah fuck it idc i already uninstalled

never going back

[trail wagon]

Have you found Mr. mushroom?

[spark valve]

it's not that interesting

[trail wagon]

Why? 🙁

[prime scaffold]

fuck him i didnt even get him in HK1

https://tenor.com/view/green-mile-im-tired-boss-michael-clarke-duncan-gif-2375696290766999196

[stray fog]

I dont think we actually get a reason for why Hornet gets an extra heart aside from the dialogue with gilly

[trail wagon]

Well you can climb to Nameless Town for fun ahhaaha

[trail wagon]

I mean.. it's actually the PLAYER who does it

[stray fog]

Hornet said she did it for practice

For the final battle

[prime scaffold]

ngl I really thought Lace was gonna be a 1-and-done character, or at least ending after fighting her in the white flower field before GMS

didnt think she was gonna be hear to the very end

[trail wagon]

When I played the game I didn't know I could give the Conjoined Heart, so to me it seemed like Hornet just killed a random gay bug grieving his lover 😭

[trail wagon]

I mean it really changes how you think about each boss and Hornet herself, depending on who is the fourth in your case, and it's really cool

[trail wagon]

It really changes the perspective

I mean we don't actually kill Nyleth, so that's probably the only good one lol

[trail wagon]

She's not alive at the moment when the events of the game take places

[dry bridge]

We dont even see nyleth when the game takes place, but yeah, if she is alive shes at best like karmelita, diminished and unable to actually do what she once did

[edgy nebula]

it's partly implied khann is alive when we find him so i wouldnt put it past nyleth being alive aswell

would be weird for every heart to be alive except for nyleth

[craggy smelt]

He did try to kill her first, she was just looking around

[trail wagon]

What???

[trail wagon]

Or are you joking?

[trail wagon]

We "dreamnail" the statue, not her body

[craggy smelt]

Hornet doesn't actively start a fight with Green Prince, he gets pissed off at her for showing up in his memory and attacks her

like sure, maybe it was rude to come in uninvited, but still

then she suddenly has an extra heart she doesn't know what to do with

'guess i'll put it on this shelf'

'have it constantly beating while I'm trying to read over lore notes'

[whole hawk]

Just saw this thread on reddit about the soundtrack and really liked it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/HollowKnight/comments/1p0txa8/silksongs_soundtrack_has_a_crazy_lore_implication/

My only minor comment is how GMS boss theme is also entirely Dies irae. Which makes me think maybe the Weavers altered it to turn it into a song of weakening.

[visual glacier]

Bells being weakening devices is cut content

[trail wagon]

Ahahahaha yeah

[trail wagon]

Lace also hums it before the first fight

And it's also the menu theme pretty much

[trail wagon]

https://youtu.be/_JDCaY4O_GU?si=OKDC4Np2jDpqeAaq

[trail wagon]

They don't mention it here, but Karmelita's OST is somewhat similar to Clover Dancers

[spark reef]

The soundtrack does most of the heavylifting with the narrative in this game.

[heavy gyro]

Yeah but hornet has no risk of actual death

[cedar skiff]

i like that choral chambers has dies irae reversed

[stray fog]

Why

[heavy gyro]

Because hornet doesn't die in memories

[stray fog]

We don't know whether that is canon or just for gameplay

Everyone else dies in memories so Hornet should too

[heavy gyro]

It's obviously canon since you don't die there in steel soul

[stray fog]

Oh

Didn't know that

So is it only the person whose memory you're inside that can die in said memory

[stray fog]

Even if she can't die, she wouldn't want to get beaten up either

[timber pond]

Its.... SilkSONG..... No Shit

[spark reef]

Yeah, but it could have just been only the melody.

except almost every track is a banger in the game

[timber pond]

When you tell Christopher Larkin "Hey we are making a game entirely about music in its wolrd" no shit he's gonna go ham

[heavy gyro]

She is intruding on his memories so he has every right to kick her out

[stray fog]

Its not like Hornet to just accept that and let herself die (in the memory)

[timber pond]

Clearly, hornet knows that the only happy ending for this man is death

[heavy gyro]

Yeah but he never said that so hornet is still morally wrong

[stray fog]

Yeah Hornet is not always on the side of morals

[timber pond]

"Hey man the only thing good that will happen here is if I kill you"

????

She litteraly just tries to have a conversation with him to help him get over it in his memory

But he would rather go out in a blaze of glory it seems

[heavy gyro]

I doubt the memory versions of the characters are even self aware

The green prince doesn't react if you leave the memory and talk to him again

[timber pond]

We cant even say that with certainty tho

[heavy gyro]

So she just kills him randomly from his perspective

[visual glacier]

Why are you trying to justify hornet killing someone as “it was the best ending for them” just accept that hornet is a flawed character

[heavy gyro]

Yeah

[timber pond]

Its more like, there is no best ending for him because he's so obsessed with the past

They are both trying to make the best of the situation they are given.

[visual glacier]

He asked her to leave him alone and she invaded his memories

[stray fog]

His entire kingdom was destroyed and hislover was killed

[timber pond]

Yes

So there is no good ending for him even if hornet leaves him be

[visual glacier]

And her last thought upon killing him is thinking he’s vain

Or rather first thought*

[timber pond]

Also yes. Because him being vain is what brought him to languish his past so much to the point of obsession into probably just withering away

[visual glacier]

That’s not why she called him vain

And you know it

[timber pond]

I know, but its probably a side effect of loving oneself, or one who is so like oneself so intently, that it brings nothing but anguish and demise.much like narcisscus.

[stray fog]

If hes the green prince, then was there a ruler above him (a king or a queen)?

[visual glacier]

I don’t think so

[stray fog]

Shouldnt they be the green kings

Or am I over thinking

[timber pond]

They were prince's of another

[visual glacier]

“a male royal ruler of a small state, actually, nominally, or originally subject to a king or emperor.”

[visual glacier]

He’s mourning

It’s healthy

[timber pond]

If you Mourn forever until you yourself wither and die alongside them, no i would not consider that healthy

[visual glacier]

How do you know he would mourn forever?

[timber pond]

He was already doing that in the cage in sinners road

He had no mind to change his ways ,even after bringing the robot to verdania

[hushed crater]

Everyone who he knew was killed and she then invaded his memories and brutally kills everyone in them finishing with him and then uses his heart as decoration at her house. Now I see why the judges were attacking her

[timber pond]

At least it was a badass way to go

Otherwise, like I said, he would have withered and died

[visual glacier]

Is that your only remaining defense

[timber pond]

No. He was already dead.

[hushed crater]

At least he wouldn't have become someone's doorstep decoration

[timber pond]

Just waiting for something to kill him

[visual glacier]

He literally asked hornet to leave him alone

She should respect that

[timber pond]

And he would have died a slow death mourning his lover regardless. Like hornet herself says about pale beings, whatever chosen the outcome is inevitable.

[visual glacier]

How do you know that?

He couldn’t mourn properly in the cage

[timber pond]

Because that's all he was doing before hornet frees him.

[timber pond]

It is unhealthy mourning regardless

[visual glacier]

So the solution is to kill him

[timber pond]

Because he cannot let go

[hushed crater]

Again better then your organs being someone's doorstep decoration

[timber pond]

If he is so obstinate for doom, yes.

Much like how Zylotol cant fathom that lifeblood can exist elsewhere

[visual glacier]

What

No correlation

[timber pond]

If he accepted it could, mabye he would have inquired about it when hornet mentions it

And changed his operation

[visual glacier]

Speaking of that

Hornet helped him spread the Plasmium knowing full well how dangerous it is

[timber pond]

The seeds were already planetd by Zango. She didn't really spread it directly anywhere. I think the dude just like, injected it into himself after hornet collects it.

Sure ,she saw aberrations from consumption. But mabye she overestimated the Scientists know how, gave him to much Benifit of the doubt.

[visual glacier]

She still helped him without really warning him

[timber pond]

She tried to mention it,but he immediately denied her claim it could of possible been seen anywhere else

He would have dismissed it as fairy tale anywhoo. And act 1 hornet merely wants the power.

[visual glacier]

Are you suggesting hornet has some insane character arc where she grows and changes throughout silksong

[timber pond]

Not insane really. She helps out pepole merely for material benifit to solve her mystery, then gains solace in helping them. Thats it.

[crimson patio]

Chat
Is GMS a pale being?

[hushed crater]

Yes I think so

[craggy smelt]

yeah

[pliant meadow]

Probably

[bleak ridge]

Is nyleth a higher being? She honestly HEAVILY reminds me of Unn

[hushed crater]

Yea but lesser one then unn

[pliant meadow]

There really isn't any reason to think Nyleth is. The main reason we think Unn is is because of the part where they show up in p5 and because that had a created a whole tribe of bugs from their dream

[hushed crater]

She is a lesser one and is the seed that started the whole forest

No regular bug does that

[glossy totem]

im pretty sure none of the four hearts are uhm higher beings tho

and she did allat after she died

so uh

[pliant meadow]

And no regular bug commands an army to take over half of a kingdom, does that make Khann a higher being?

[glossy totem]

all of the four hearts are just surprisingly powerful mortals

[hushed crater]

Ok maybe she isn't just my opinion

[glossy totem]

theyre all leaders of their own respective place (shellwood, sands of karak, hunters march/far fields [???] n verdania)

they all have an influence over the inhabiants

in nyleths case, she is PHYSICALLY shellwood

though her “rein” is after she died

sad

teats

tears

[hushed crater]

Yea that is why I thought she was higher unlike the rest who are just skilled

[glossy totem]

makes sense

i thought she was a higher being too sniffles,,,

[hushed crater]

Can Widow be the same spider as Herah because her head shape beneath the mask is way more similar to herrah's then the regular ones

[zenith gorge]

I don’t think there is anything to learn from looking at weaver biology
Herrah and widow are definitely weavers that’s for sure, now trying to explain why certain weavers look the way they do and classifying them is probably pointless

The artsyle of the games has changed and evolved in the past like 8 years

[echo moon]

None of the old hearts are higher beings

They are indeed exceptionally skilled in their area but just barely not higher beings

[pliant meadow]

I mean they're all evolved by gms from pharlids

[terse warren]

We don't really see any other Weaver beneath the mask

[severe escarp]

why is nuu sentient even though he doesnt wear a mask

i thought those gave the minimum level of sentience to bugs

[craggy smelt]

no, some bugs are sentient even without masks
though some natural faces are also described as masks, like Hornet's, so it's really hard to say who has one and who doesn't

like Mask Maker says

Is it mask or face upon the creature? In Hallownest, a difficult thing it can be to decipher.

and so it goes for other kingdoms as well

made masks seem to be just for creatures who don't have a face(natural mask) of their own already

[whole holly]

does anyone else think it is interesting that both Shaman Crest and Grubberfly's Elegy Charm give off white hot energy when attacking?

i hope we get Moss Druid storyline, cut content had Temple of Moss Druid, before it got replaced by Shamans i guess

[hushed crater]

We can see some weird drawings of a grub in the collector's roof indicating they are something more then they look like also none of them are infected

[craggy smelt]

Moss Druid will rise... the New Heart

[whole holly]

i want Moss Heart storyline, but also Druid Crest somehow

[whole holly]

well, yes but comparing them to Shamans, i guess they have that specific thing in common

[craggy smelt]

both Soul energy, presumably

[frigid belfry]

father grub was secretly a hb

[whole holly]

Druid will give us Moss Heart on Quest to find worthy candidate

[whole holly]

well, sure, i guess it looks vaguelly like soul effect

[whole holly]

Shamans being Soul manipulators and their Crest having worst healing is funny

[craggy smelt]

they were more into violent applications, I guess

[whole holly]

i guess but they had Spiral focus, i also know godseekers have their own crest i hope we get their Crest too, i want Hornet to have lot of Crests

[craggy smelt]

godseeker crest, hrmm...

makes you think every fucking thing is a god ig

[whole holly]

lol

they seem to have their own abilities, vast mind, and ascending others

[severe escarp]

what are the sprint masters are they some sort of group or kingdom, do they have any relation to dashmaster?

[frigid belfry]

Implied that they are a kind of group, and the one in hallownest is a “relative” of the one in silksong

[pale narwhal]

not to mention how widow had her mask forcibly removed but is still intelligent

[whole holly]

what are candidates for being Higher Beings in Silksong? i don't want to hear Weaver Queen or Twisted Child Endings, i want to hear about characters that have unique godly abilities

[hushed crater]

Gms and mainly Mr mushroom who is the true god of gods

[whole holly]

i mean candidate, GMS is proven

[hushed crater]

All the hearth bosses are candidates but probably not even tho some having higher beings like abilities like the first seed and the singer (actually the other 2 aren't so much)

And of course the god of all gods Mr mushroom

[whole holly]

well, i want to consider Eva and Fayforn

[hushed crater]

Eva is probably a half higher beings like hornet

Fayforn looks like a regular moth that isn't the radiance

So maybe

[whole holly]

Father of Flame as well, i wonder what would happen if Eva was immolated in FoTF Totem

[whole holly]

result would be Fiery Higher Being that would be cool

[hushed crater]

Yea but the father of flame wasn't controlling their power. They just became suicidal when you kill him for whatever reason

[whole holly]

sure, but Mr Mushroom is conversing with her, she seems unique, definitely not regular moth

[whole holly]

yeah, Father of the Flame is a Totem with Bug that sacrificed themselves, it is pretty much just a ritual to keep themselves immune to haunting and GMS's influence, which i don't think Immolation is really solution for

[hushed crater]

Well we don't know how regular moths look the moth tribe were created by the radiance and it's ancient enemy was void so maybe moths are genuinely higher then the rest of the bugs like the Wyrms

[whole holly]

Palestag doesn't seem important enough to be considered for Higher Being

[eternal sigil]

https://youtu.be/bRx1mvgBOL8?si=O1OaEnj4JzFSRZfy

[whole holly]

Moths we know so far, ones created by Radiance, Radiance herself and Fayforn don't seem to be same coherent species, Moth Tribe is only species of Moth that identifies as such, Fayforn is likely one of it's category along with Radiance

[eternal sigil]

any of the rest of you see/notice this?

[whole holly]

too lazy to watch video, notice what?

[hushed crater]

46 seconds...

[whole holly]

i watched it pretty short video, yeah i have noticed it

[whole holly]

don't know effect of it, or what is point like does it affect damage?

[whole holly]

i didn't know what before i clicked and i was watching something else , maybe don't judge person in advance

[hushed crater]

Just saying

Not judging

The last judge is for that part

[whole holly]

no need to say it either, especially with "..." at the end

[hushed crater]

I used Hunter's to the endo of the game and can confirm I am too bad to get it in the first place

[hushed crater]

I told you because I knew you didn't click it so I just wanted to tell you

[whole holly]

okay, let's move on to higher being topic

[hushed crater]

Yea

The parasite is probably not a higher being because both gms and hornet were unstable during it so it probably just attacked at the right time

[whole holly]

honestly, thing that frustrates me about Higher Beings in first place is that unless game states that, we can't confidently say classify character's as such, like we can't know if Old Hearts, FoTF, Fayforn, Eva, Abyss Creature, Old Gods(Godhome), Palestag are Higher Beings based on Common Characteristics

[whole holly]

i agree, in Twisted Child ending Parasite probably absorbed their powers

[whole holly]

team cherry just created strong and uniquely designed characters and call them higher beings, without us knowing where exactly to draw line, but in First game we just thought Focusing was one of requirements to be Higher Being, but not every Higher Being has Connection to Focus

[whole holly]

some non-higher beings do like Shamans and Godseekers

[hushed crater]

And some higher beings like unn

I don't think she focuses

Shermans are probably some ancient tribe

Like the steel city

[onyx pawn]

did people think about the name of the hollow knight charm "Defender's Crest"? CREST!
What if it'd even exist in Silksong?

"Chapel of the Defender"

[hushed crater]

It would turn attacks into hornet farting and charged attacks into her shutting at the enemies

[onyx pawn]

that's basically flea brew with poison

[hushed crater]

You can't shit on top of enemies with flea brew

And I am talking about it being a crest

[cedar skiff]

i think its crest as in

an actual crest

not the weaver term crest

unless the charm description hints otherwise

[onyx pawn]

I wonder how the chapel of the defender would look like tbh

[cedar skiff]

its still an awesome observation tbh and a cool idea

i mean for all we know hornet could bind a dead ogrim

[hushed crater]

I think it's a crest just the knight doesn't know how to equip it fully

So he just non stop farts

[frigid belfry]

as far as we know hornet/eva are the only ones able to interact with other's crests

crests always existed, the knight was never able to interact with them

[hushed crater]

Yea he probably just uses the crest's bad smell

And lets his pets get covered in it

[onyx pawn]

All crests are unique in getting them:

Hunter: From the start
Wanderer: Arena
Beast: Bossfight
Reaper: Parkour and arena
Architect: Money and tools
witch: Quest
shaman: Secret

Defender: ???

[frigid belfry]

he was kicked out for cannibalistic practices

[hushed crater]

All need you to bind in the dead bug

[frigid belfry]

he was once a pretty well known chef for his "unique" meals

you can see his tanks full of other bugs in a secret area from his bossfight room

then his little servants cut and cook him once youve beaten him

[hushed crater]

Probably

[frigid belfry]

yes

[hushed crater]

We know pale beings are stronger then regular higher ones

[frigid belfry]

caretaker, khann, karmelita, and the shamans all refer to her as a pale being or having pale light

[frigid belfry]

never confirmed

[hushed crater]

And can be overpowered by dream beings

[frigid belfry]

headcannon

[lilac hedge]

Anyone know why the first weaver and pv know how to use rune rage

[hushed crater]

She is definitely stronger then unn

[frigid belfry]

implied the weavers shared their rune practices with the pale king (seal of binding, black egg, and pv's training)

[hushed crater]

A weaver fighting technique

They learn it from eachother

[lilac hedge]

Pure vessel is a weaver now?

[frigid belfry]

no, read what i said

[hushed crater]

Idk about pk tho

Maybe he learned it from Herah and the other weavers

In hallownest

[hushed crater]

Exactly

Weavers learn it from weavers

The pyre vessel learned it from the weavers

Probably part of the deal they both needed the infection gone

[lilac hedge]

Thats why it fucking sucks

[dawn stratus]

Chat is GMS actually great might sote?

What if zote transitions

[viscid ridge]

Is there any cut audio of Hornet singing? Cause ive been just messing around and playing the needolin in her bellhome, thinking it would be a perfect spot for her to sing.

[severe escarp]

where are GMS's grandchildren

[terse warren]

Hornet

Also she's a Grand Mother not a grandmother

[viscid ridge]

She ate most of them

[kind cairn]

theres gonna be another sequel??

[severe escarp]

cant be because herrah isnt a weaver given sentience by gms

[terse warren]

There's gonna be post release updates no clue about sequels

[severe escarp]

why dont grub father get grand grub father then

[terse warren]

Yes she is

[severe escarp]

she is?

[terse warren]

Yes

[kind cairn]

but the void ending is incomplete tho

[viscid ridge]

She is, we get confirmation in Silksong that Herrah is a weaver

[terse warren]

?

[onyx pawn]

I've heard there's a mod featuring Sherma's Bell as a yellow tool. It replaces the needolin animation and sound. It's not official cut audio, but..

[kind cairn]

i mean wha happens after hornet rescues the girl

[terse warren]

I mean Silksong didn't explain what happened after DnM or EtV

[viscid ridge]

Yeah i heard that thats hilarious, but im still wondering if team cherry ever considered adding a singing line for Hornet in game

[kind cairn]

idk what both of those are

[terse warren]

Endings from game 1

[kind cairn]

but the passing of the age achievement shows once again the to be continued

[kind cairn]

oh

btw the shade that rescues hornet

[pliant meadow]

GMS is also a grandma tho

[kind cairn]

is it The hollow knight or the knight?

[terse warren]

The knight

[kind cairn]

cool

[pliant meadow]

The player character is the knight

[kind cairn]

such an amazing lore🥹

[terse warren]

Well yes but it is not what the name is meant to be

[terse warren]

Ehhhh i mean it's alright

The ending was kinda eh

[kind cairn]

the void one?

[severe escarp]

if the hollow knight is also a shade in the void sea now then is he conscious?

[kind cairn]

wdym eh i loved it

[viscid ridge]

Grand Mother Silk is a stupid name all things considered. Respectfully Team Cherry should have chosen another name

[severe escarp]

pale mother silk?

[kind cairn]

he should be conscious

[viscid ridge]

Honestly that alone is better

[kind cairn]

i mean the knight was

[terse warren]

The Shades have their own minds

Also Void Heart, though not like it means much anymore

[terse warren]

It's a good name imo

[terse warren]

It didn't make the most sense nor was it foreshadowed at all

[severe escarp]

you guys the the mask makers are like slaves or smt

[viscid ridge]

I just kinda hate that she is called silk, i like know thats whats shes literally made of but still. It would be like if they called the Radiance, The Essance or something 😭

[terse warren]

The game as a whole would better without Act 3

[terse warren]

I don't think so

The Wardenflies are

[viscid ridge]

I honestly think mask makers are weird, their not immortal, their not gods, but they have a lot of weird abilities, like having foresight comparable to the pale king. I honestly think the mask makers are incredibly important somehow, but team cherrry isnt gonna tell us why

Like are they a group of bugs? Or the same species? They both have the weird swirly eyes, but don't look related to eachother at all

[sinful nimbus]

Mask Makers say they have a contract

They don't have foresight they can only read the crest of a bug

or mask as they call it

[viscid ridge]

They can't really read crests, they read masks. Masks and crests seem like different parts of making up a bugs identity.

[severe escarp]

could the swirly eyes be because they know every single crest of a bug which is too much knowledge for them?

[sinful nimbus]

They both just seem to be describing the identity in general

[severe escarp]

also how does hornet change her crest from the witch crest to smt else. Does she remove the parasite and put it back when she changes back to the witch crest

[viscid ridge]

I still have the speculation that swirly eyes are a indicator of being able to see into the future. The only character who have them are the mask makers and Mr Mushroom. Although its probably a stretch, i still think its valid to point out that The Pale King also has a version of swirly eyes up close

[unique canopy]

A crest is the bug's essence, something internal and innate to them. While the mask is something worn and given by a mask maker. A mask that matches the crest can strengthen the bug, but a mask can override the crest in a way that can mess with the bug's identity.

[sinful nimbus]

Does he

[severe escarp]

the knight also had them in a few cutscenes i think

[mild adder]

what exactly was not foreshadowed about the ending?

[sinful nimbus]

idr do the eye ridges swirl

[viscid ridge]

Yeah in the first cutscene, but i think that was supposed to be related to the void, and not having swirly eyes because of foresight (even tho i think both it and Hornet has the ability)

[viscid ridge]

Yeah

[terse warren]

The void being there at all wasn't foreshadowed

And there is no reason for the knight to only appear right at the end? And they can control the void but also can't?

[sinful nimbus]

?

[viscid ridge]

But it looks more like a wyrm design, or ancient basin type of design, so its not really concrete, but i feel there is a connection there

[sinful nimbus]

I don't really see it

[severe escarp]

isnt this made by fans

[sinful nimbus]

No

That's official art

[viscid ridge]

No this is from official team cherry for the Pale Court

[severe escarp]

oh

[sinful nimbus]

(Pale Court being the song not the mod)

[severe escarp]

could the hunter be a weaver? he looks a lot like widow

[terse warren]

He's way bigger than them and also all Weavers are girls

[mild adder]

you mean void being in the game or underneath pharloom at all?
because the the Snail Shamans were in the game from the very start and we know they are connected to the void.

and as for the Knight, even with Void Heart, its not like the Knight got ability to control all of the void on his beckon, in DNM its Knight and his siblings who actively tear down Radiance into the abyss, aka the conscious artificial beings created from void collectively controlled sufficient amount to do the job and get rid of it, in EtV ending the Knight is able to do it alone due to the nature of the Godseeker's domain but its not like they ever had explicit infinite omnipotence and presence over the void.

The knight and his siblings are conscious formed functioning entities that can exist within the void without disolving in it or being the most basic form of life in the void like the soul seeking tentacles that infect and devour everything.

Ghost's timely arrival is literally just a callback to when Hornet helped him, dragging him out of the collapse Wyrm corpse, his presence and timely arrival is debatable, but honestly i doubt he has much to do besides sitting in the void chilling.

[sinful nimbus]

Shamans being connected to the void is kinda a retcon

They explicitly weren't in Hollow Knight "Wherever you draw this new power from, it's not a place my kind ever thought to look"

[severe escarp]

the void is giant though probably much bigger than the bug world so i dont see how he happened to be there at that time

[sinful nimbus]

TK did control all of the void including siblings until SS retconned that too

[unique canopy]

Not sure if that guy's the most reliable of narrators since he didn't know the rest of his family was dead

[sinful nimbus]

"Unites the void under the bearer's will"

[mild adder]

Except we get two dark skills specifically from the shamans
DD and SS

[sinful nimbus]

What does that have to do with the void

Me when I don't immediately know my grandma died so she must be a witch

[terse warren]

1. Snail Shamans weren't connected to the Void at all in the first game

2. "Unifies the Void under the bearer's will" idk dawg seems to be like the Void isn't really unified. Also the Knight could very easily be controlling the Siblings since, y'know, that's kinda the Void Heart's whole deal.

3. Hornet was in the room right before the corpse of the Wyrm 2 minutes before getting the King's Brand. The Knight was nowhere to be seen until the end. If they don't have anything to do aside from sitting in the Void how come they only helped when they did?

[mild adder]

fair but i'll give you one counter argument
GMS sized screaming shaking cocoon snack
Shade lord goes "yummers"

[sinful nimbus]

The void in those spells comes from The Knight with the shamans acting as a powerful catalyst for the transformation, according to the Snail Shaman who comments on these spells

[unique canopy]

Because obviously his family was split up so they weren't all in the know about what each other were doing. So that guy didn't care to experiment with the void in the abyss, but that doesn't mean he had complete psychic foreknowledge of everything his family members were doing without him.

[terse warren]

If only there was dialogue directly from the Shaman saying him and his family actually never even thought of looking into the Void

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah but the void fixation is implied to be a universal shaman thing in SS

Also he's not portrayed as unreliable regarding this topic 🥴

TC putting in dialogue to lie to the players face directly for fun

[severe escarp]

wait are we talking about hollow knights snail shaman or ss snail shamans

[midnight zinc]

I’m confused as to what exactly you’re arguing with this last point. I understand how people get confused on the Voidheart description and see it as a retcon, but what exactly is your point about the ending? That it was made last minute or something?

[terse warren]

Caretaker in Silksong makes it pretty clear that Shamans are known for their Void fanaticism "You should know well our family's fixation"

[mild adder]

to be fair the snail shamans in SS seem to be more power oriented than void now thinking about it.

[unique canopy]

They have a fixation on power. Void was just one source. It was not one that the Pharloom snails ignored, even if that one singular Hallownest snail did.

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet is expected to infer they would use void based on her prior experiences with shamans

Which is nonsense

[terse warren]

Void Heart isn't confusion it's just a retcon

TK both has to attack the tendrils to get them to stop but then can control them however they want to?

What I'm saying is that the ending isn't that good because TK's arrival was out of the blue and didn't really make sense

[sinful nimbus]

And all of the snail shamans explicitly didn't have anything to do with void "its not a place my kind ever thought to look"

Its not just one snail shaman

[unique canopy]

According to that one singular snail shaman, it was specifically the Hallownest Abyss that he thought they didn't have anything to do with. "It's not a place my kind ever thought to look."

[sinful nimbus]

He also describes void as a new power its not that hard to figure out what he means

[severe escarp]

wasn't there a thing where if you left hallownest you would forget it?

[terse warren]

If TC just lied straight to our face with no way to infer that it was a lie that'd be pretty dogass writing which I'd rather believe is not the case

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah if you got your mind granted by PK

[midnight zinc]

The void heart isn’t really retconned, I’d say it’s pretty obvious we as a community were misunderstanding the charm description, and clues that this was the case were already in the first game. The referral to the knight with the Voidheart as “lord of shades” makes it pretty clear that its control is more just directly over the siblings and the void they came out of, which makes sense considering the way the VH is formed is tied directly to it confronting its past and its creation.

Its arrival makes plenty sense to me, it’s a bit out of left field but not completely unpredictable considering the rest of act 3. Once we went to the abyss I suspected we’d be seeing things that tied back to the vessels.

[sinful nimbus]

Well you don't forget it you just lose your entire mind unless you are quirrel who has a magic mask

[unique canopy]

Okay so he's definitely not a reliable source of information if that's the case since the void was used as a source of power back in the ancient pre-fall history of Hallownest. You know, the thing the Pale King used? The power that was all over his palace? That thing? Definitely not "new" by the time of the game.