sk-lore

[spark valve]

Cindril weavers couldn’t use the main door without mommy seeing

[trail wagon]

I don't think there necessarily is a definitive answer to whether the world is round or flat

[silk dirge]

yeah cindril would be quite suboptimal to get to the citadel from

[trail wagon]

TC might not know

[sterile jacinth]

There’s definitely more outside of the 2d prison we’re stuck in

[mint stratus]

I like the idea of dividing the weaver rebellion timelines by the different theories for the order of events

Sorta like a “here are the potential ways it went down”

Organizing them I think would help with discussion

[sterile jacinth]

This is only sort of related but I don’t think the weavers would hold any kind of respect towards pale king. I think they’d think he’s weak

[trail wagon]

Wdym?

[mint stratus]

I feel the opposite, they seem overly aggressive to his influence

[silk dirge]

why

[sterile jacinth]

It might not be because they feel threatened. I think they believe they could use him and his perceived naïveté

[trail wagon]

We know for sure that some fled and some stayed. The difference of interpretation comes from different interpretations of the same lore tablets

[silk dirge]

hes certainly more powerful than grand mother fraud

[mint stratus]

Oh like how when we talk about it we wouldn’t have to get into the weeds of how we think it went down,
We could do more of a “I believe in timeline theory b”

Obviously with a more defined name but you get the idea

[trail wagon]

Oh you mean like name them

Good idea, yah

[sterile jacinth]

I think they’d see him reaching out diplomatically and assume it’s out of weakness or stupidity

[trail wagon]

Let's call it a true timeline theory (the one me and Skarr are arguing for)

And the rest

:p

[frosty gate]

What I don't really get, if the nests were made by different groups of Weavers to find a way to deal with GMS, what the fuck did Karn do

[teal drift]

Timeline 2 and timeline B

[trail wagon]

I'm just kidding 😂

[sterile jacinth]

Calling it true is certainly a name lmao

[silk dirge]

nothing lol

[teal drift]

Karn said “fly”

[tepid mountain]

Maybe Karn is the one that came up with the “leave mummies behind for someone to bind to” idea.

[sterile jacinth]

Isn’t that where you get silk dart?

[trail wagon]

They don't necessarily have to belong to different groups. I thought they were just named after the Weaver who built them, or was responsible for the area

[mint stratus]

I’d see an umbrella term “Weaver Rebellion timelines” as another good name for just discussing weaver influence

[silk dirge]

yeah

[trail wagon]

We know that each location was controlled by a specific Weaver, right?

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah I’ve never really thought they were different groups, just different outposts led by different weavers

[trail wagon]

Based on the Nedolin tablets

[mint stratus]

The only thing I’m unsure about is how much each outpost was able to communicate with one another

[trail wagon]

That's not really clear

[sterile jacinth]

I think it’s post gms being asleep and post stone citadel being built so I think they had free reign

Maybe they tended to stay in certain weavenests but they aren’t really built as residential places. They’re more like labs or outposts

[unique canopy]

GMS originally set them up as her divine children, so as long as they were careful to keep their plans under wraps in the Weavenests they would've had free reign to travel between them regardless.

[silk dirge]

larger weavenests with a teleportation system between them wouldve been cool

[frosty gate]

They all seem to do different stuff in each one, so it would make sense it was different groups of Weavers led by whoever was the Leader, which was probably the one who named the nest

Atla made traps, Murglin weapons, Absolom decided the Abyss was a good idea

Cindril escaped

[sterile jacinth]

Cindril was plotting escape plans

[mint stratus]

Okay so theory A or “Citadel foundation” as a placeholder

The idea that all the weavers worked to maintain the citadel + later making bugs run it before any attempts to flee or create other plans for freedom

[sterile jacinth]

Atla is probably the main hub because it’s both the biggest and has Eva

[unique canopy]

Is there anything contradicting the possibility that Absolom was made after, by the Weavers who returned from Hallownest?

[sterile jacinth]

Nothing for nor against. The architecture is however the same

[unique canopy]

No doubt it's the same, but it would make sense if those Weavers were all "hmm, this void stuff seemed to work in containing another pale being, what if..." and then they all got high on their own supply.

[sterile jacinth]

-# I wonder if Hornet and lace would travel to hallownest

[mint stratus]

Theory B (Concurrent)
Citadels creation and weaver outposts and fleeing happened simultaneously

[sterile jacinth]

Lace: “damn bitch your home sucks”

[mint stratus]

Theory C (Preemptive)
Weaver outposts and fleeing happened before citadels creation

[frosty gate]

I also think Atla were the ones who made the Citadel I think? Someone said they had a Bell

[sterile jacinth]

Prototype of one according to Tammo

[frosty gate]

Maybe, but I feel it's just older

[trail wagon]

He guys, I thought about something

[mint stratus]

Theory c could still have had the weavers putting gms to sleep but the idea of the citadel trap might notve existed basically

[frosty gate]

Haven't seen it myself

[trail wagon]

How do we know the Weavers who passed the burden stayed in Pharloom?

[sterile jacinth]

I don’t think the weavers were that divided lol

[sterile jacinth]

Neither have I

[trail wagon]

Does it say it there?

[mint stratus]

We could also define the theories as simply Post, during, and pre

[sterile jacinth]

I think this is when they fled. Some stayed to be the mummies but I think the majority fled

[frosty gate]

Those are the Burial Spires, but we kinda don't know much more than that

[trail wagon]

I don't know where they got that from, there is a BELL from bell shrines, but not a full Citadel prototype

[frosty gate]

No one indicates that the Weavers left, just that they died

[trail wagon]

How do we know that at all?

[frosty gate]

Bell Shrines are a lock for the Citadel

[trail wagon]

Ballow does

[frosty gate]

Ballow?????????
Him out of all people

[sterile jacinth]

They all teach you weaver stuff. I think they’d stayed behind to help some weaverkin destroy it stop gms once and for all

[trail wagon]

He says that those who used the Diving Bell are either dead or are doomed to fate worse than death or smth like that

[trail wagon]

I think most weavers left, and some just decided "why not, we're gonna die anyways"

And died

And became mummies

[mint stratus]

“We who remained” after all

[frosty gate]

Then you've no prior experience with this type of transport?
No one does, miss! Them's who used to dive're all long dead, or cursed ta half life. An' there ain't no bug left alive's been brave or stupid enough to try... 'til now, at least.

He says they died or are curse to being zombies

[trail wagon]

Yeah, I don't know why it's so important

[sterile jacinth]

I think them staying behind was deliberate. I think they hoped to teach their skills to the one who would kill gms. Kind of a desperate hope with this interpretation but it ended up working

[trail wagon]

Is that the text they say before you bind them?

[mint stratus]

Part of it ye

[frosty gate]

The fact that Atla was a Bell Shrine prototype or the fact that they put a lock on the Citadel?

[trail wagon]

I don't think half life means they are haunted necessarily

It was the Weavers, most likely

[sterile jacinth]

The lock on the citadel seemed to me to be a thing to prove a pilgrims devotion

[trail wagon]

Who else would use it

[trail wagon]

The first

[trail wagon]

Yeah, that's clear

[frosty gate]

Ballow isn't talking about who went down, he's talking about who operated it

[sterile jacinth]

Only the truly devout would be able to ring all the bells and then be judged pure

[frosty gate]

The Operator stays above

[trail wagon]

Used to "DIVE HERE"

[trail wagon]

Those who operated it did not dive

[frosty gate]

Fair enough

Still, it's a weird thing that bell

[trail wagon]

He specifically suggests that nobody is using it anymore

[sterile jacinth]

I wonder when it was built

[desert copper]

What the actual hell is the twisted child and how is he able to overpower GMS?

[trail wagon]

It was built for the weavers

[frosty gate]

It doesn't look... Weaver-like

[sterile jacinth]

Well the weavers are fucking dead

[trail wagon]

BTW

HERE YOU GO

[sterile jacinth]

Mostly

[trail wagon]

IT'S A PROOF THAT ABSOLOM WAS BUILT AFTER THE CITADEL

[sterile jacinth]

Stone or gilded?

[frosty gate]

How so

[sterile jacinth]

Stone I believe so. Gilded I doubt it

[trail wagon]

The bell was made by the Citadel

It's pretty clear

[sterile jacinth]

Not necessarily

[trail wagon]

It's a part of the Docs which probably didn't exist before

[frosty gate]

Oh wait after the Citadel, yeah I guess it makes sense

[trail wagon]

There's an inaccessible room in the Chapel of the Architects with something related to the Diving Bell

[sterile jacinth]

It kind of does look gilded era

[sterile jacinth]

If it’s inaccessible that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s canon

[trail wagon]

GMS would not build a transport to the Abyss

[trail wagon]

Yeah, fair

[trail wagon]

And would not order it to be built I think

[sterile jacinth]

Well gms wasn’t in charge until very recently

[trail wagon]

Well initially she was

[sterile jacinth]

Relatively speaking

[frosty gate]

Actually, I'll disagree, that bell does not look Weaver made

[trail wagon]

What I'm saying is that this Weavenest was certainly built after she was put asleep

[sterile jacinth]

Yea it looks gilded era citadel

The bell could have been replaced

[frosty gate]

I think there is another way to the Abyss that the Weavers used

[sterile jacinth]

Or that

[frosty gate]

That Bell wasn't it

[trail wagon]

Nothing in the Docs looks like it was built by the Weavers

[sterile jacinth]

Maybe the lava climb is how they got there

[trail wagon]

I'm making an argument against the idea that Weavenests were created before GMS was put to sleep

[sterile jacinth]

Or they literally teleported lol

[frosty gate]

Yes, then why would the make the Dock Workers build a bell to what's probably their biggest pile of bullshit

[sterile jacinth]

I don’t know why they’d build a bell

[frosty gate]

You wouldn't like anyone to find that thing

SPECIALLY THE ABYSS

[trail wagon]

To dive I think

[sterile jacinth]

Maybe the citadel wanted to search the old weavenests

[trail wagon]

Wha

[sterile jacinth]

Not many bugs know if it’s danger

[trail wagon]

I don't think anybody is allowed there

[sterile jacinth]

It looks to be gilded era citadel so post weaver

[frosty gate]

Exactly, so you are going to build a transport so a bunch of people who don't know what they're doing go down????????

[sterile jacinth]

That’s likely why it’s abandoned

[trail wagon]

Ohhh

Well

Wevenest Absolom was built after GMS was put to sleep

[sterile jacinth]

It might have been built to explore the weavenests and they decided it was too dangerous. Half lives and fates worse than death and all that

[trail wagon]

Or perhaps because nobody needs it?

[frosty gate]

I think Weavers made Absolom and Citadel just stumbled upon it

[trail wagon]

Literally what Ballow says

[sterile jacinth]

I think they decided it was too dangerous

No more void. Maybe one of the only smart decisions gilded citadel made

[trail wagon]

Its specifically said there's nobody who used to use it left

[sterile jacinth]

Yea. It was likely abandoned awhile ago

[trail wagon]

I think it was only used by the Weavers

[sterile jacinth]

It’s not weaver architecture

[trail wagon]

There are no signs of anybody else in the abyss

[sterile jacinth]

Weavers most likely weren’t around gilded era citadel

[frosty gate]

It can't be weavers

[trail wagon]

Except for Ancient civilization, which would likely predate even GMS

[sterile jacinth]

I think the citadel wanted to explore the old weavenest and sent bugs down there and then realized it was killing them so just aborted the mission and also the bell

[trail wagon]

How did they get there then?

[sterile jacinth]

Other entrance

[frosty gate]

God knows, world is 3d

The same way TK got out of the Abyss

[trail wagon]

There doesn't seem to be one though

[sterile jacinth]

they might have had a teleport pad that got destroyed

[trail wagon]

Maybe we'll find another one

[sterile jacinth]

When deep docks was established

[trail wagon]

I mean fair

[sterile jacinth]

Or they had a diving bell and it broke and was replaced

[frosty gate]

I'm sorry but this is the one time I gotta pull the bullshitting line of "We don't know and we don't need it explained"

[sterile jacinth]

Yea real

[frosty gate]

Sometimes with the mapping you just know it can't be explained and its just TC saying "Yeah fuck you this is just cool"

[sterile jacinth]

Abyss climb is so fucking cool

[trail wagon]

I mean we kinda do, because it changes our understanding of when the Weavenests were built

[frosty gate]

We never will

Want me to say how they got in and out?

[trail wagon]

Because some people suggest they all were built before the GMS capture

[trail wagon]

Go ahead 👀

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah. There’s other paths we just can’t take because we are confined to our 2d prison and game design

[frosty gate]

Does someone have a pic of the lower side of the Elevator?

[trail wagon]

But I still think Absolom was built while GMS was asleep

[trail wagon]

You're a genius

[sterile jacinth]

I think they all were

[trail wagon]

Where is it on the map btw?

[frosty gate]

Atla

[trail wagon]

I think Atla could be built before

[trail wagon]

No, the abyss one

Where is it on the map

Exact room

[frosty gate]

First large drop

[sterile jacinth]

Eh I kinda doubt it. I think they were all built at around the same time

[frosty gate]

Exactly when you start finding weaver architecture

I don't think any nest was made before

[sterile jacinth]

Same

[trail wagon]

Probably not like at the same time but kinda

I think they built them for different purposes to try out different ways to fight GMS

[sterile jacinth]

Not all in the same like year but they all have similar architecture and serve similar purposes. It doesn’t make sense to me to build one way later than all the others

[trail wagon]

Me too

[frosty gate]

Wait sorry, my english

[sterile jacinth]

Ok so we agree

[frosty gate]

No, I think GMS was awake when Nests were built

[sterile jacinth]

Aah. I disagree

[trail wagon]

I mean the Abyss one might, because at this point they have no idea what to do with GMS and resorted to studying the void

[frosty gate]

Btw the reason why Atla having a Bell is important is because that probably means that group made the Citadel

[trail wagon]

Me too hahahahaha

She was half awake I think

[sterile jacinth]

The whole thing with the weavenests is desperation. I don’t think they were built all exactly at the same time but in the same time period

[trail wagon]

That one specifically was made before the Citadel

[trail wagon]

Yes, agree

[trail wagon]

I think by that time GMS started to gain her powers back also

[sterile jacinth]

They’re desperately clawing for ways to keep their mother asleep or get rid of her entirely

[trail wagon]

Because we know Weavers were losing it over time

[frosty gate]

We just don't really have proof for that, we either know GMS was asleep or she wasn't, we have no clue of a period of "Half asleep"

[sterile jacinth]

I think that would be the haunting. Which is way after the weavers left

[trail wagon]

I mean we know Weavers were losing power

[trail wagon]

Yes

But that is awake, isn't it?

[frosty gate]

How so?

[sterile jacinth]

She’s not awake until you challenge her

[frosty gate]

She's at the very least barely sleeping during the Haunting

[sterile jacinth]

Yea I agree

[trail wagon]

So it wouldn't be a stretch to say that at some point they had enough power to keep her in the cacoon, but enough to bar her from being able to track the Weavers or sense them

[trail wagon]

Mulgrin weavenest

[trail wagon]

Yeah

Sleeping is a spectrum

🙂

[sterile jacinth]

I think she always had some sort of world sense even while asleep. Her power was greatly diminished but not extinguished.

She could still make decisions and communicate (we see this with the silk hearts)

[trail wagon]

And over time she was regaining it right?

[trail wagon]

Yes

[sterile jacinth]

Yea it’s definitely gradual

[trail wagon]

Yaaay

Everybody agrees with me I gotta go ahahhaa

[sterile jacinth]

I think she started to regain power because conductors got greedy and used the silk from her cocoon to inject in other bugs shells

[trail wagon]

[frosty gate]

I think it just means that the were making tools in case their silk failed

[sterile jacinth]

It could be both

[trail wagon]

Hmmm perhaps

But them looking for new ways to keep GMS asleep also suggests there was a reason to worry they aren't doing enough

[sterile jacinth]

Yea that’s what I think happened

[trail wagon]

Also the fact that it was so necessary to breed Moorwing to keep the dreg collectors working suggests that silk became very valuable

So much that they needed to get back every single dreg

[sterile jacinth]

I think that was the conductors doing that

Conductors got greedy

[trail wagon]

Maybe, it would make more sense

[trail wagon]

Plus they got no silk of their own

[sterile jacinth]

Yea memorium is a museum and doesn’t seem to have been made with the stone citadel

[frosty gate]

Remember I believe nests were made before GMS is sleeping

Every nests is looking for a way to deal with GMS

Atla just suceeded, to an extent at least

[trail wagon]

How would they get to the Abyss without GMS knowing?

[sterile jacinth]

It’s very far from her sight

Even further than the other nests

[frosty gate]

I'm sorry but I'm forced to play this card again

[trail wagon]

But they failed to keep her asleep eventually

[sterile jacinth]

God and void don’t mix very well

[frosty gate]

"How would you get out of the void without Pale King noticing?"

[trail wagon]

He died

[frosty gate]

We don't know when TK went out

[trail wagon]

He's in the dream realm too

[sterile jacinth]

I don’t think he’d notice a few little vessels escaping lol

There are thousands of them

[trail wagon]

I don't think it's comparable

[sterile jacinth]

A few little ones slipped through the cracks

[tepid mountain]

Would GMS even care if Weavers went down into the Abyss?

[trail wagon]

There's gotta be more Weavers to build a whole aah nest in the lowest part of the kingdom

[frosty gate]

"What in the actual fuck are you ladies doing in the thing that could potentially kill me?"

[sterile jacinth]

Go to bilewater idiot -gms

[trail wagon]

Idkk

[tepid mountain]

Yeah but like, it’s not like they’re bringing it back up with them.

[sterile jacinth]

Experiments

They’re desperate

[trail wagon]

I don't get a feeling like GMS allowed them out tbh

[frosty gate]

Also, if Bilewater and Moss Grotto are out of GMS' gaze, then fuck it, Deep Docks is too

[trail wagon]

They were made with the purpose of sustaining the song for "her light eternal"

[sterile jacinth]

She’s a helicopter parent basically

[trail wagon]

Wondering across the kingdom doesn't sustain the song very well, ladies

The song will not sustain itself, kids

[frosty gate]

There definitely times where they had the chance to leave their posts

[sterile jacinth]

“What the hell are you doing??? You gotta do your chores! I treat you like this because I love you obviously”

[trail wagon]

I mean probably

[sterile jacinth]

What a great mother

[frosty gate]

Proceeds to hit them with a Silk belt

[trail wagon]

Do you want mommy's eternal light to cease?? 🥺

[sterile jacinth]

“You don’t even love me do you. All I do for you and this is the thanks I get”

[trail wagon]

Precisely 😭

[tepid mountain]

If the Weavenests were outside of GMS’s gaze, how does she know where other weavers are outside of the kingdom?

[sterile jacinth]

“Maybe I should just die if you really want that 😒”

“I’m such a bad mother aren’t I”

[trail wagon]

That's probably because she's still asleep

[sterile jacinth]

Maybe scout parties?

[trail wagon]

And doesn't see all

Also, I don't think it's necessarily her finding the Weavers

[sinful nimbus]

Weavenests magically obscure it or something dumb

You do have to cast a song spell to enter there

[frosty gate]

Ah, great, Yosef you get to meet Star

[safe dock]

quick question
why would GMS want to wake up from her slumber if she apparently can do anything while still on slumber? lol

i mean, from what i can get, she made Phantom and Lace while she was still on slumber, and also controls all bugs this way as well

[frosty gate]

Absolutely valid options, everything considered

[sterile jacinth]

You do need music to open it and that does seem to stop the haunting or at least make it more difficult to haunt

[trail wagon]

There are absolutely non-suspicious doors 😉

[frosty gate]

Meanwhile...

[sinful nimbus]

well, she can't

[frosty gate]

THE FUCKING MINI BEASTS

[trail wagon]

Ohhh her

I've met her

[sterile jacinth]

She was betrayed and depowered a lot. I think I would like to wake up from a coma

[trail wagon]

I don't think she said anything outrageous the last time I saw her

[safe dock]

she's still on slumber when hornet challenges her

[sinful nimbus]

I said the meanest most evil statement you can imagine...

[trail wagon]

I don't really get why she needs Hornet to challenge her to wake up..

[frosty gate]

Silk is Void

[sinful nimbus]

then she wakes up

[safe dock]

yeah me too

[sterile jacinth]

It’s probably something to do with hornets power? I’m not entirely sure

[sinful nimbus]

GMS wants to wake up ASAP so it seems Hornet arrived there just in time which is kinda goofy but whatever

[trail wagon]

Really? :0

[sterile jacinth]

Gameplay is probably the correct answer

[edgy nebula]

gms is clearly just a light sleeper

[trail wagon]

Because it's cool and epic

[sterile jacinth]

A few hundred years is very light sleep

[frosty gate]

I don't think she wakes up because Hornet challenges her, I think she was just saving energy for this moment

[sterile jacinth]

True it is cool and epic

[trail wagon]

Perhaps

[sinful nimbus]

I'm telling you dude its the voids twisted spaces

[trail wagon]

Good explanation

[frosty gate]

It's basically a big "Ok you little shit its on"

[trail wagon]

Void is silk

[sinful nimbus]

Clearly absolom created a void mask to seal her power

[trail wagon]

Hornet is void

[sterile jacinth]

It would be fucked up if we got to the final boss and we just bound her while she was still asleep

[trail wagon]

It's 2018

[fathom hill]

yes

[sterile jacinth]

She’s also the roaring knight

[fathom hill]

✅ ✅

[trail wagon]

She eepy

[safe dock]

but how did she wake up? i mean, cogwork was doing its work very well

[sinful nimbus]

It is not

[frosty gate]

It wasn't

[sinful nimbus]

Cogwork core was never finished according to 12th Architect

[sterile jacinth]

Lmao not well enough. That was simply one of the aspects keeping her asleep. The rest of the citadel had fallen silent

[sinful nimbus]

And you have to manually activate it n such

[trail wagon]

It's not necessarily known how exactly she is being kept asleep

What is the purpose of cogwork Core?

[trail wagon]

Genuinely

[sterile jacinth]

To keep her asleep

[sinful nimbus]

To produce song

[trail wagon]

How?

[safe dock]

oh i thought it was finished because of the choral commandment

[sterile jacinth]

Like another backup

[trail wagon]

Where?

[fathom hill]

Oh im sure she was awake before

[sterile jacinth]

Music :P

[fathom hill]

unless theres another explanation for the empty cages in the cradle

[sinful nimbus]

wym where

[trail wagon]

What music does it produce?

[sterile jacinth]

A choir of machines to sing alongside the rest of the citadel

[safe dock]

so she was just chilling in her ball waiting for hornet

[fathom hill]

yah

[sinful nimbus]

Music is what keeps GMS asleep

[trail wagon]

But they don't sing??

[sterile jacinth]

When you get the melody there’s a huge amount of singing statutes

[trail wagon]

Unless you play your needolin

[frosty gate]

The play music, if that helps

[fathom hill]

Im sure hornet mentions how she knows the silk above is expecting her or something, so im sure gms knows somehow that she will go eventually

[trail wagon]

But when? Where? They just walk there

[trail wagon]

But they only activate when you get there

[sinful nimbus]

They don't play music they maintain the giant music box which is cogwork core

[frosty gate]

They mean the statues at the top

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah. Didn’t really work :P

[sinful nimbus]

Because the cogwork core was never finished yes

[frosty gate]

Also I was talking about this ealier, maybe the Threefold song isn't what kept her asleep

[sterile jacinth]

Just another failure of the citadel

[trail wagon]

Like when you get the Architects melody?

[frosty gate]

Yeah

[trail wagon]

That's a good explanation.. probably

[sterile jacinth]

Another thing they threw at the wall that didn’t work

[trail wagon]

But it's not like it's constantly on

[sinful nimbus]

"But you m-m-may hear it, still. At the height of our core, there is means-s-s-system, near complete... Constructs old-built to sound our song. They need only be set to functional form."

[sterile jacinth]

I think it’s a backup in case the choir stopped. It didn’t work

[sinful nimbus]

It probably would've worked for a time if they finished it tbf

[trail wagon]

My problem is that there's nothing in Cogwork Core that suggests it was to keep the song going

[frosty gate]

I think TFM was just a means to ascend The Cradle, not the actual song that keeps GMS asleep

[lone folio]

Or they forgot to add 7 screws and all died

[trail wagon]

It would make sense if there were huge sound amplifiers

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah 😔

[trail wagon]

Of some kind of choir singing eternally non-stop

[frosty gate]

Give me two wiki pages, I'll find it

[lone folio]

Also I find it odd how we get to see one architect in the entire game

[sterile jacinth]

The architects build the other architects

This one forgot how

Or doesn’t know how

[safe dock]

so the architects just straight up lied to the conductors?
cause this choral commandment says it was finished and perfect:

"And lo, is eternity sustained. By Architect's claw, we welcome that final form, of dial and rotor, and soul gladly given.

The perfect, unfaltering voice."

[trail wagon]

Ohhhhhh

[sinful nimbus]

Well producing music is the entire point of the Citadel

[lone folio]

Like we get atleast 2 of the other two and then we have one architect and we don't find a single other corpse or npc anywhere

[frosty gate]

This one, yeah

[sinful nimbus]

Seems like a premature victory celebration

[sterile jacinth]

A lot of the themes of silksong is hubris. They definitely thought it would work but their arrogance caused them to fall

[frosty gate]

Which is why I think the Conductors missed the memmo and missunderstood everything

Leading to death

[trail wagon]

It just looks like there are not enough instruments to do that

[sterile jacinth]

They got greedy

[sinful nimbus]

Well that's inconsistent with the Pontiff noticing something in the song that led to the revelation that the Citadel keeps GMS asleep

[sterile jacinth]

Idk this feels like a lot of instruments to me

[trail wagon]

It would make more sense to have some robotic speaker singing a song very loudly so GMS would be constantly asleep

[lyric widget]

The Twelfth Architect doesn't say the core was never finished, they say the system to play the Architect's Melody wasn't finished

[sinful nimbus]

That's what the core is no

[trail wagon]

Again, if it just doesn't work properly, that's fine

[sterile jacinth]

It didn’t. It failed

[lyric widget]

the cogwork core was built to play song on these cylinders you can see here in the background

[trail wagon]

It makes sense now

[lone folio]

I wonder if pharloom has spinning sharp gears and then hallownest has spinning sawblades what does the next kingdom have

[safe dock]

yeah
and the Architect's Melody isn't the melody that keeps GMS sleeping so idk why we would assume the choral commandment is wrong

[sinful nimbus]

Oh truee

[sterile jacinth]

Evil wheels…

[fathom hill]

Oh cool

[sinful nimbus]

My guess would be the cogwork clappers can't complete their task due to the haunting then

[trail wagon]

You're right

[lyric widget]

the choral commandment and the Twelfth Architect both say the core is functional yeah

[silk dirge]

oh hey a wiki editor last night we did some looking and identified all of the acmi anomaly rooms to the best of our ability

credits to @trail wagon for this image

[unique canopy]

Architect: "System's finished, you just need to start it up, just read the manual."
Conductors: "Pfft, who needs to read a manual."

[trail wagon]

:3

[silk dirge]

the first 2 cut rooms ive seen on the wiki

the last 2 arent mentioned i think

[lyric widget]

I'll forward it in the cut content thread

[silk dirge]

cool

[sterile jacinth]

OSHA does not exist in silksong 😔

[trail wagon]

Thanks :3

[sinful nimbus]

How'd you get to the conclusion that those are hunters nest rooms

[silk dirge]

they look like it

[trail wagon]

They have red stuff

[trail wagon]

Like spikes and so on

[sinful nimbus]

Is there a higher quality screenshot

[trail wagon]

Very similar to Hunter's March

[silk dirge]

these look like hunters march

[trail wagon]

Yes

[silk dirge]

you can clearly see air vents

[sinful nimbus]

Ohh yeah I see it

[unique canopy]

The bigger of the three looks like an expanded version of the Beast chapel. You can make out a few shared rooms, although the chapel itself is half the size.

[trail wagon]

There is one more room, but it seems unfinished

It has something like a tent (?)

[safe dock]

btw choral commandments were sent by conductors, right?
so the one ordering bugs to capture hornet was made by one of the conductors iirc

if so, were they also affected by the haunting? cause ballador seemed "fine" (sane, at least)

[sterile jacinth]

Could have been a higher member of the choir that was haunted

[lone folio]

"We would hear the song of the ikea employees , at the core of our country. They who sustain our land, its walls, its floors and its culture, even as others forget how to use a manual."

[silk dirge]

i found this shot of the big hunters march room

[sterile jacinth]

I doubt the orders to capture weaverkin are from conductors

[sinful nimbus]

ant structures 🥹

[silk dirge]

its on the last acmi map before release

so 🙏

[trail wagon]

No

It's not Beast Chapel

It looks similar

But it's not it

[silk dirge]

yeah thats what im saying

[safe dock]

yeah i think that too
but then it would go against the fact that the conductors were the ones sending orders through choral commandments

[silk dirge]

its not

im just saying it bc idk where we got hunters nest from

[sterile jacinth]

I don’t think they are. I just think it’s important members of the choir

The conductors themselves would have been basically powerless at that point

[trail wagon]

Yeahhh okay

[silk dirge]

also the wiki points out that the last map being august 7th might be misinformation

[trail wagon]

There might be a connection between Hunter's March and Greymoor

[silk dirge]

bc nameless town isnt at the top of the climb up

[trail wagon]

It might be added there

[silk dirge]

but its still a latest map

[safe dock]

"A precious order passed down by the holy conductors. Rare now to find these old texts, and rarer still to find a bug able to read 'em."
idk if im looking too much into it but yeah

[trail wagon]

Well yeah, maybe

[sterile jacinth]

Hmm… odd… I don’t know why conductors would try to capture weaverkin

Unless they were trying to win back gms favor or smth

But that’s a stretch

[lyric widget]

apparently these were already identified and we also have some zoom ins that make them more clear/higher quality

[lone folio]

If not them then who are making the commandments

[sterile jacinth]

Higher members of the choir who are haunted

[silk dirge]

the hunters march looking ones appear to be cut tho right

[lyric widget]

here's the folder with the ACMI images https://mega.nz/folder/edVVRA4B#94IkruvZz5psFJ-Yn9v0fw

[sterile jacinth]

Like the guys with Cogflies

[silk dirge]

i dont recognize those from in game

[silk dirge]

yeah im looking at this rn

[fathom hill]

always imagined it was the choir themselves

[lone folio]

Oh yeah they could also be very haunted since they love using silk for no reason

[sterile jacinth]

Conductors aren’t haunted

[lyric widget]

no clue, I'm not involved in the cut content pages. I would recommend joining the wiki's discord server to talk to the editors that are working on this

[sterile jacinth]

Or at least Ballador isn’t

[safe dock]

yeah i mean ballador was fine but the other conductors could be haunted?

[sterile jacinth]

They’re both gone

[fathom hill]

hard to tell if we dont see any others that arent dead

[silk dirge]

i would but i have a physics midterm i should probably study for instead of talking here lol

[lone folio]

It's probably very easy to take one over unless their helmets work like tinfoil hats that stop the government from reading our minds

[safe dock]

before that

[exotic pumice]

hey, i'm the manager of this folder, we have identified all of these, well, mainly all of them

[sterile jacinth]

I don’t think they sent the commandments before that

[nimble echo]

So does anyone have any clue how long ss takes place after hk

[silk dirge]

those hunters march rooms are cut tho right

unless my memory is bad i dont recognize them

[sterile jacinth]

Long fuckin time that’s about it

[fathom hill]

prolly some long time

Hornet acts prettyu different in both games

[exotic pumice]

this got reworked into chapel of the beast, the other two rooms seem cut

[safe dock]

we have no clue of the timeline so maybe they were haunted before dying

[sterile jacinth]

I kinda doubt it

[silk dirge]

that is interesting bc this room is still present in the august map

[exotic pumice]

the august map is a joke, so many inconsistencies

[silk dirge]

i would assume chapel of the beast was already done by then

[lone folio]

It seems like hornet went from being 17 to 31 so about like 16 dog years

[exotic pumice]

this is speculation, but the "august" map was likely taken in 2024 rather than 2025

[silk dirge]

yeah thats true its missing a lot of internal rooms also

[trail wagon]

Is this a clock btw?

[trail wagon]

it says august 2025 wdym

[exotic pumice]

yeah, the most glaring problem is Sinner's Road, which lacks its orange hue and has clean blue water. in the august map, it is still the Dustroach Pens

[exotic pumice]

mistake by ACMI

or deliberate lie

[silk dirge]

as long as the lifeblood spire is still likely to be dlc im hoping 🙏

[trail wagon]

Didn't TC make these pics themselves?

[exotic pumice]

oh yeah, the maps you identified as "The Gloom?" are completely false

those are actually ocean travel scenes

with what looks to be a submarine

[trail wagon]

Yes

[exotic pumice]

no, they sent the files to ACMI, we dont know what context they gave them

[trail wagon]

I called it 'The Gloom', but it's not

[trail wagon]

I don't think they just game them random pictures and said "place them together"

[silk dirge]

tc cutting the submarine would be unforgivable 😭

let us have one cool water area

[foggy fractal]

too high tech for the pharloomians, we gotta make it ourselves trust

[exotic pumice]

the "lifeblood spire" you are also referring to likely isnt the lifeblood spire you are thinking of

the 2017 lifeblood spire has 0 indications of still being in the game, but there is a lifeblood "umbrella" that is on open ocean, which the player would have sailed to likely

probably old location of zylotol

before the wormways

[sterile jacinth]

That would be so cool

[trail wagon]

It was on the 2025 map

[lone folio]

Shes gonna make it on a rsndom crappy desk in pharloom bay with a craft metal

[exotic pumice]

yep, better be dlc cuz i want to travel the seas

[silk dirge]

i doubt it

[trail wagon]

And I would still stick to calling it 2025 map, because it's what the picture says

[exotic pumice]

as i keep saying, that map is false. it doesnt mean anything

[silk dirge]

zylotol mentions in game he has a master

who found plasmium in pharloom bay

[trail wagon]

Wym doesn't mean anything

[exotic pumice]

yes, zylotol old location/master/something else

[sterile jacinth]

As in it’s cut and changed and not canon

[trail wagon]

It's August 2025 map with all other locations fixed

[exotic pumice]

not in the bay, in "salt stricken waters"

likely in open ocean

[trail wagon]

It doesn't mean we can't speculate on whether or not it will be brought back

[exotic pumice]

its not in august 2025 though. the map is false. there is no way TC could have made so many updates in one month before release

[sterile jacinth]

Yea but it is speculation

[trail wagon]

We can't just say that

Because it's presented officially

[exotic pumice]

yes we can, join the wiki server, we have discussed this there heavily

[fathom hill]

maybe the lifeblood creature will be an underwater creature too? if we ever find such a thing

[exotic pumice]

ACMi is known to make mistakes

all the time

[trail wagon]

Oh okay

[fathom hill]

giving the whole submarine thing

[exotic pumice]

in their Zine, they have used words like "fiight" and "kickstarer"

they dont care about official information too much

[trail wagon]

I think the Lab is where Zylotol's master might be

[edgy nebula]

weavenest murglin has been described as being between salt and stone iirc, probably a line from before the scrapping of bay

[exotic pumice]

the Lab is the umbrella yes

[fathom hill]

pretty likely

[silk dirge]

yeah zylotol is already here on that map

[trail wagon]

yep

[exotic pumice]

i dont think this refers to the weavenest, it likely refers to the bay itself proving it exists canonically

[trail wagon]

It almost certainly does

[fathom hill]

3 pixels

[trail wagon]

Because there is clear water in Mulgrin

[fathom hill]

i kinda believe you

[lone folio]

Oh which cluster of pixels is he?

[trail wagon]

who?

[fathom hill]

this

[silk dirge]

but anyways i feel its just kinda weird for tc to drop a mention of zylotols master and where she is located and not elaborate

[edgy nebula]

yeah thats what im saying, murglin is sat between salt and stone, stone probably being bilewater and salt being the bay, implying that plasmium was found in the bay

[exotic pumice]

after 2021, the game went through MAJOR reworks with acts being added. everything added pre 2022 may that is not in the game is pure cut content right now

[trail wagon]

yeah

[trail wagon]

Same

[trail wagon]

That's for sure

[silk dirge]

yeah the great cut as i call it

[trail wagon]

But it doesn't mean the other locations that stayed on the map are also supposed to be cut

[silk dirge]

its just weird these things stuck around for so long

[trail wagon]

Also, even if the dates aren't correct, the august map IS the same as the final map, except there are some additional rooms

[exotic pumice]

how does that imply plasmium is found in the bay? there is one line mentioning where plasmium is found "deep salt stricken waters"

there is no way a dock would be built on deep waters, since we know the bay used to have land. its on a shore

and knowing that the player would actually travel the ocean, it makes sense its somewhere in the ocean itself, not the bay

[exotic pumice]

it is not the same

Sinner's Road does not exist in the august 2025 map

Bilewater has red spikes

[trail wagon]

I think even if bay will be brough back

[exotic pumice]

Mount Fay is cut off incorrectly

[trail wagon]

wait, lemme see

[trail wagon]

it doesn't?

[silk dirge]

anyways my hope is since all the submarine stuff is post the great cut and zylotol mentions his master itll be dlc

[trail wagon]

where?

[sinful nimbus]

The nefarious red bilewater orb

[edgy nebula]

it's red because it wants to fucking kill you

[exotic pumice]

its leftover gloom assets

gloom got turned into bilewater

[sinful nimbus]

Related to the cauldron orb ofc

[sterile jacinth]

Bilewater with red spikes wouldn’t look bad ngl. It might be a bit too much contrast for the gloom the area is doing for

[foggy fractal]

y'know what else is red and an orb ?

[trail wagon]

Am I missing something?

[silk dirge]

-be tc
-"Plasmium was discovered by my master at the farthest edge of Pharloom, hidden deep in salt-stricken waters. I brought it to these caves under her direction, to study how it flourishes in a foreign place."
-never elaborate

[edgy nebula]

i cant believe they scrapped andy from silksong

[exotic pumice]

for context, this is the second version of the gloom

[trail wagon]

I'm sorry, are you serious?? 😭

[exotic pumice]

?

[trail wagon]

This might just be some light reflecting...

[exotic pumice]

.....

[trail wagon]

what is this?

[boreal zealot]

zote controls everything in pharloom and hallownest

[exotic pumice]

leftover gloom assets?

[edgy nebula]

tc never explains so many things

[sinful nimbus]

tuff

[edgy nebula]

why are crustcrags in memorium tc. why do you do this to us

[trail wagon]

yes, but which map?

[edgy nebula]

gloombeasts fit the gloom but if the whole area was red why did they spit purple

[sterile jacinth]

They tried in vain to preserve Karak

[exotic pumice]

2025

[trail wagon]

the closeup?

[silk dirge]

maybe those were like the last survivors of karak

[trail wagon]

Is it 2025 map closeup of Bilewater?

[edgy nebula]

they arent found in present day karak though, and if karak fell pre-citadel why would they be there

[sterile jacinth]

Ah rats

[exotic pumice]

no, there is no need for any close up. its the same thing, you can tell from the distance we have

[sterile jacinth]

They could have gone extinct later

[exotic pumice]

here is dustroach pens in 2021

[trail wagon]

no you can't...

[sinful nimbus]

OGs remember Mansion of the Moor 👴

[exotic pumice]

and here is dustroach pens blue water in 2025

[edgy nebula]

true but id still love some explanation, it's so dumb

[silk dirge]

thats probably just like

[trail wagon]

The Surface climb doesn't look like that either...

[silk dirge]

halfway home or some shit

[sinful nimbus]

creige is RICH?

[exotic pumice]

never did much looking at that, its different?

[exotic pumice]

its not, they were seperate

[foggy fractal]

not anymore, they cut him being rich

[trail wagon]

It doesn't have lighter sections

[sinful nimbus]

thank god because lugoli would've had to eat him 🙏

[exotic pumice]

now thats likely lighting

not the spikes in bilewater

[trail wagon]

There are spikes brooo

[exotic pumice]

you dont have to agree, but its what we on the wiki deduced

[trail wagon]

what spikes

there are no spikes

and you literally just liead about Sinner's Road

[silk dirge]

anyways i will still believe the lifeblood lab thing is dlc

no way they replaced a cool submarine cutscene with fucking act 3 wormways 😭

[exotic pumice]

i dont understand what you are talking about and i dont think you want to listen

[trail wagon]

What is is this?

[silk dirge]

atleast sands of karak are cool

even if i wouldve liked coral gorge karak is still goated

[exotic pumice]

dustroach pens

[exotic pumice]

it wasnt even a cutscene likely. the rooms had platforms and shit

[trail wagon]

where is the evidence it's not Sinner's Road? I know it used to be called this

[spark valve]

are we really pretending that's a worthwhile sacrifice 😭

[exotic pumice]

it was likely explorable

[foggy fractal]

more wormway slop coming right up

[silk dirge]

maybe a submarine minigame?

like you navigate the submarine around

[spark valve]

tc still owes me a mantis shrimp boss

[exotic pumice]

clean water is the evidence. same with the white hue of the rooms. in the game, sinners road is full of muck and an orange hue

[silk dirge]

that would be sick

[silk dirge]

i mean i cant hate on karak

[trail wagon]

which room is it?

Oh i mean

which map

[silk dirge]

dried up coral reef is still a really cool area

[exotic pumice]

2025

[trail wagon]

this is the 2025 closeup?

[exotic pumice]

this is the 2025 closeup. the other closeup comes from 2022

there is no difference, if you cannot agree with that, i dont know what else to tell you. the water is blue in both pictures and there is a gray hue in both pictures

[trail wagon]

the other closeup doesn't count

[exotic pumice]

to you maybe, to everyone else it does

[silk dirge]

is there any info on what was up with team cherry modifying code labelled "bay"

i saw it in a video but i never saw any post about it

[trail wagon]

How can you say there's no difference, there's literally 2 pixels...

and even if it still has clean water

[exotic pumice]

nope, but with the other hints, like the corpse in the memorium, set between salt and stone, bilewater sketches, kelp used in game

likely, very likely dlc

[trail wagon]

It doesn't mean it's necessarily false, it might just mean they changed it and didn't edit the map

[silk dirge]

yeah im gonna keep hoping

[exotic pumice]

ok so, team cherry managed to replace the entire design of sinners road, recolor all of bilewater's assets, fix inconsistencies with mount fay, remove rooms

ALL of that, in less than one month

that logic makes no sense

[silk dirge]

also nm town is missing

[exotic pumice]

yes

[trail wagon]

what inconsisntencies

[exotic pumice]

chapels are missing too

same with voltnest and brightvein

[trail wagon]

which rooms did tehy they remove

are you talking about the lifeblood ones?

[exotic pumice]

i keep explaining which you wont listen, so i dont want to keep going

[trail wagon]

And all of the cut things?

[trail wagon]

you didn't say anything about Mt. Fay though

[exotic pumice]

alright, wait

[trail wagon]

Yeah, that I know

[silk dirge]

anyways i just want to point out there is some sort of body of water in the opening cutscene

[foggy fractal]

yeah the dustroach pens into sinner's road within one month would be crazy work, that's very odd

[exotic pumice]

deleted room on the first image, inconsistency in the second

2025 map

[trail wagon]

I'm not saying it's 100% the same, what I'm saying is that even if there are some differences it doesn't mean it's necessarily completely false and not a august 2025 map

[trail wagon]

might also be DLC 😛

[silk dirge]

water

unless theres some very shiny sand

[trail wagon]

it might also be void, some people suggested

but I don't think so

[silk dirge]

who is suggesting thats void wtf

[foggy fractal]

😭

[trail wagon]

ahahaha

[foggy fractal]

we back to the logic black = void

[exotic pumice]

so you think the devs are able to change sinners road completely, make new bilewater assets, fix up an inconsistency with mount fay, change the size of the two towers in the citadel for whatever reason all of that, in less than one month. MAN, those must be some god tier developers

[trail wagon]

yes ahahah

[exotic pumice]

what??

[silk dirge]

so i wonder if possibly pharloom is surrounded by an ocean

[exotic pumice]

it is at least on one side

[silk dirge]

yeah

would make sense with the "sandsea waste" mentioned in the cradle

[trail wagon]

I don't think Sinner's Road having clean water means it was clean at the time when this map was made. Whas is this map even based on? Like did they just capture the game's map?

Like in the game engine?

[edgy nebula]

idm the theory of pharloom surrounded by an ocean, brings actual lore to watcher at the edge

[silk dirge]

nah hes just karak border patrol

[unique canopy]

Zylotol does refer to the lands outside of Pharloom as "the mainland"

[trail wagon]

does he? I don't remember that lol :0

[exotic pumice]

we dont know and its impossible to know what these maps are based on

what i keep saying is, ACMI either made a mistake in the dates, deliberately lied that this is 2025, or Team Cherry stopped updating their internal development map after 2024

what is 100% clear here, is that the august 2025 date is false, and should not be taken seriously

[edgy nebula]

though it makes karak look really stupid

WHY did these bums not flee to the sea

[silk dirge]

pharloom being an island would be interesting

i do doubt it tho

[lone folio]

They no swim

[silk dirge]

otherwise how did they get across

[foggy fractal]

btw when did they add dustroach pens into the map ?

[unique canopy]

H: Plasmium, you call it? I have encountered its like before, or else a substance of remarkable similarity...
Z: Highly unlikely! The grey and barren soil of the mainland could never produce something as singular as this, and that is undisputable fact!
Z: Plasmium was discovered by my master at the farthest edge of Pharloom, hidden deep in salt-stricken waters. I brought it to these caves under her direction, to study how it flourishes in a foreign place.
Although this does imply that Zylotol is able to tell Hornet isn't a Pharloom pilgrim just by looking at her.

[exotic pumice]

june 2019

[trail wagon]

I still don't think there's any issue with August 2025. I don't see any problem with old assets in the same rooms, as they indeed might've just stopped updating the visuals for it, which is irrelevant because most rooms are the same sctructurally. Some aren't present in the game, which might be because they cut them the same way they cut the Lab/Lifeblood Umbrella/Spire whatever you call it

[exotic pumice]

yeah i dont think you're on the same page as what im trying to say, so i wont bother explaining further

you can join the wiki discord to discuss this more

[trail wagon]

I haven't seen a link to it

[exotic pumice]

wiki website, and then the discord on there

[trail wagon]

I'm sorry if I'm missing the point

[trail wagon]

Okay thank you

[mossy cradle]

gng what if the pale oil is like the wet part of a worm whatever its called
"Clitellum"

[silk dirge]

this would be interesting

[exotic pumice]

i would image its only the east side thats ocean

[lone folio]

Pale oil specifically comes from sylphean slugs

[silk dirge]

yeah it is possible the opening cutscene is just a random puddle of water

[mossy cradle]

a what

[lone folio]

In the item description of the pale oil it says "it comes from a rare sylphean slug"

[silk dirge]

tbh in dlc i mainly want like the ability to explore the wastes

[foggy fractal]

it would be very, VERY, odd if they did keep it like how it was till a month before release, then to just say "wait it needs more orange and muck," it seemed like they were satisfied with it
2021 was when they made a lot of changes right ? why not have done it then ? if the 2025 august date is not realistic, is it possible that other dates before it are also not realistic ?

[exotic pumice]

yeah, i dont wanna assume too much, but right now its confirmed the august 2025 date is false

[silk dirge]

like i just want to see whats out there

[unique canopy]

I'm probably off the mark, but wasn't The Mist originally supposed to be dust filled?

[silk dirge]

i appreciated the abyss in silksong bc its cool worldbuilding that its under the entire world

so just getting to see more of this world would be cool

[unique canopy]

I thought I saw that as a cut save point image

[silk dirge]

id imagine theres not much out there

but itd still be cool

[foggy fractal]

very intresting, I will use this to fuel my new theory: TC made a bunch of new stuff recently they don't want us to see yet 🧠

[exotic pumice]

never implied specifically but maybe> the area was called "Dustroach Pens" and the mist was called "Dustmaze" likely because it was located in dustroach pens

[silk dirge]

MYSTERY ICON THEORY COMEBACK

[foggy fractal]

LET'S

FUCKING

GOOOOOO

[lone folio]

That's about all we know about them though there is a good chance that they are pale creatures like pk and GMS though probably not higher beings. They probably show us the fact that being pale isnt just for higher beings

[foggy fractal]

BUGPIPERS RETURN.

[exotic pumice]

oh bugpipers are gone for good

[silk dirge]

but yeah this could go with star complaining all the time that they did like nothing in the last 2 years lol

[foggy fractal]

https://tenor.com/view/walks-away-sad-leave-tom-and-jerry-gif-16877258

[silk dirge]

maybe they were lying about polishing stuff and they were actually like

adding fucking city of steel

[unique canopy]

If that is true, maybe they just decided that a bunch of dust didn't make sense in the lore, so they changed the Dustmaze to the Mist and changed the Dustroach Pens to Sinner's Road relatively late?

[foggy fractal]

oh btw what confirmed it

[lone folio]

Shadow dropping city of steel

[exotic pumice]

nothing, its just extremely unrealistic for it to come back? whats the point? if its not dropped with the game, whats the point of returning it

[foggy fractal]

because I want it...

🥹

[silk dirge]

i know someone whos in denial over pin pilgrim

[exotic pumice]

im confident that 90% of cut content will not be dlc, in fact, the only cut content that will likely be DLC is pharloom bay

dont expect coral gorge, aspids, gloom or anything like that for your own good

[foggy fractal]

yeah that's fine lmao, I just love bugpipers, they're such silly little guys

[exotic pumice]

everything cut from silksong was deliberate

[silk dirge]

coral gorge i can understand why people want but yeah im not hoping on it

the others idk

aspids is literally just verdania

[exotic pumice]

understandable

[silk dirge]

and gloom was like barely anything

bilewater is probably better

[exotic pumice]

but yeah i hate how easily youtube shorts or smth influences people to think everything cut is coming back as dlc

like no its not lol

[silk dirge]

vespa boss fight....

[foggy fractal]

youtube shorts are having a field day with the cuts content page lmao

[exotic pumice]

likely cut for good as well, i dont see it working anywhere other than a potential boss rush dlc, if we even get one

[silk dirge]

yeah your probably right

[exotic pumice]

and if we do get a boss rush, it will be the last dlc

[foggy fractal]

at least we have modders that can make use of the sprites

bugpipers will return......

[silk dirge]

i was saying that like pre release lol

[exotic pumice]

someone is alreayd making a banger mod

i hope people mod the coral gorge too, thats my biggest hope out of silksong modding

[foggy fractal]

for ?

[silk dirge]

idk how many times i said pre release "there wont be any boss rush on release if they add new bosses it would fuck shit up"

[exotic pumice]

vespa

[foggy fractal]

oh yeah I've seen it

exciting stuff

[silk dirge]

and people were like "nah they can just insert them in later"

which would not work at all

[exotic pumice]

i actually thought silksong would be a fully complete game, no dlcs

[edgy nebula]

coral gorge being scrapped is a huge bummer

[exotic pumice]

then tc came in with the bloomberg interview and crushed my dreams

its ok tho, dlc is better

[edgy nebula]

how dare team cherry scrap coral updraft clam

[silk dirge]

how much you want to bet updraft clam was just for drifters cloak lol

[exotic pumice]

bro they scrapped Pearl Divers, original Bilehaven concept, likely for the "clam village"

[silk dirge]

like an upward wind

[foggy fractal]

hollow knight modders have come a very long way since the first game and I hope we get to see high quality vanilla-esque content such as pale court in the future

[fathom hill]

people believed that?

[silk dirge]

yeah

[exotic pumice]

i want to see coral gorge modded in very badly, we have the full map documented, recreation is possible

[fathom hill]

that a bit crazy

[silk dirge]

i hope so bc the current modded bosses arent great lol

[fathom hill]

specially considering theyd have to add endings for it like last time prolly

[edgy nebula]

atleast i can MAYBE hope for more karak lore in the dlcs

[silk dirge]

i saw someone say that its crazy when mucked bilefly is the best modded boss theyve seen

[fathom hill]

the game's plan could change so much in the development of other dlcs to make that plausible

[exotic pumice]

i think there is enough lore

[foggy fractal]

are there tools yet to make your own custom rooms ?
I've seen mods that allows you to place objects and enemies but I don't think any room assets can be placed in

[sinful nimbus]

hi guys

[exotic pumice]

likely will require actual unity work i would assume? sorry dk anything about modding

[fathom hill]

specially considering how volatile the idea process for tc seems to be, with whole ass areas reshaped, cutted, scrapped all the time

[foggy fractal]

all good

[sinful nimbus]

I think TC were on vacation for the last 2 years where do you think they went

[edgy nebula]

for a kingdom that ruled half of pharloom? it has a total of 2 lore tablets and everything we have is from needolin dialogue or speculation

[foggy fractal]

the moon

[silk dirge]

2 years in chernobyl exclusion zone

[sinful nimbus]

They asked the authors of Wanderer's Journal to cut out all mentions of celestial bodies so I think they hate the moon 😔

[exotic pumice]

i think thats ok, ACMI maps give a lot of insight into what their kingdom would have been like. you can check it out, everything is zoomed in as well.

i know thats technically not actual in game lore, but its what the vision of the kingdom was like

[foggy fractal]

tragic

[silk dirge]

if another team cherry ama ever happens people are definitely asking why coral gorge was cut lol

[foggy fractal]

tc so ungreatful smh, the moon creates the tides y'know ?

[foggy fractal]

I don't think it'll be that deep of an answer, would probably just boil down to "we didn't like it"

[sinful nimbus]

The directive remains unchanged. It is imperative that all lore regulars post at least one question asking about Gruzzer Milk.

[silk dirge]

i do kinda remember the moment i found dried up ckk in karak and i was like wtf happened here

wheres my coral forest

[exotic pumice]

personally i would ask why hunter's nest was resized to oblivion. it doesnt make too much sense, coral gorge makes complete sense

[foggy fractal]

hunter's nest nooooo

it would've been peak...

[fathom hill]

or else what

[exotic pumice]

rip Beastmaster, Trapmaster and Hunter Queen :c

[edgy nebula]

part of me thought when we needolined khann he was gonna break out and open up to a hidden part of the forest

[silk dirge]

isnt trapmaster gurr lol

[sinful nimbus]

Sentenced to viewing the Mushspore diagram

[exotic pumice]

yes, but old gurr when he wasnt outcasted

[silk dirge]

damn i guess tc also hates mottled skarrs wtf

[edgy river]

So weird that we get lost verdania but don't get to see the other kingdoms at their prime

[exotic pumice]

i seen some people explain it as khan only caring about his tower and armies and stuff

[silk dirge]

i just wish the 4th heart had a use

maybe itll get one in dlc idk

[fathom hill]

karmelita then?

[silk dirge]

it feels weird to do all that for a memento

[sinful nimbus]

It is a difficult thing to explain simply...

[foggy fractal]

oh yeah could you tell us some info on Beastmaster and Trapmaster ? I'm a little bit confused about them, were they always seperate characters that just looked alike or smth ?

[exotic pumice]

the thing is, TC never had to make the coral gorge, only thing backer related was the coral tower dungeon.

[fathom hill]

maybe she only cared abt her duty and her people?

[exotic pumice]

they decided to give khan his own region, before making it into blasted and karak

[silk dirge]

ok tbf about this one karmelita was not lasting more than like another hour lmao

[exotic pumice]

same with karnelita technically, hunters march is TC's creation, they could have done whatever they wanted with it

[edgy river]

Ig but what about Nyleth?

[silk dirge]

i think if hornet sneezed karmelita goes bye bye

[exotic pumice]

i dont know, act 3 is full of these strange things that could have expanded more

[foggy fractal]

dawg I would've arrived and used my time rewind powers within that one hour

[exotic pumice]

but tbh, constantly exploring dream areas that give no rewards would may have been a slog

im fine with what we got, i was pretty disappointed with the gorge on release, but its whatever

[sinful nimbus]

accelerationism...

[edgy river]

Hornet literally just kills a guy and keeps his heart as decoration

[exotic pumice]

green prince wanted to die though

all the way back in sinners road

[sinful nimbus]

Dream areas don't really have the same potential as areas that exist in the world

[exotic pumice]

^

[sinful nimbus]

Realizing Verdania and Coral Gorge and Sharpe were all cut is like the Omnidroid scene

[exotic pumice]

sharpe is hilarious cuz even the backer didnt know the character is cut

which is wild

[edgy river]

I kinda get it but at the same time it's def a grey area morally

Also she keeps it as decoration which is absurdly raw

[sinful nimbus]

Well Verdania isn't cut cut but its not my verdania...

[foggy fractal]

https://tenor.com/view/ss-sk-skong-silk-song-gif-6069929492524291916

[silk dirge]

who made this gif

[foggy fractal]

yeah that's very odd, if there is a new ama that's what I'm asking lmao

[silk dirge]

its so good

[exotic pumice]

oh yeah that deco part is strange lol, but i think killing the green prince is completely in character of both him and hornet

[sinful nimbus]

SO TRUE

Its shruth nuke though

[foggy fractal]

shrue...

[edgy nebula]

wheres our lion village team cherry...

[silk dirge]

full of lions ...

[exotic pumice]

it wasnt even confirmed this was backer content lol

[silk dirge]

the lions ate it

[foggy fractal]

no idea, very happy to have contributed to this gif, although indirectly

[edgy river]

Ik and I like it a lot tbc, it's very in character for hornet and i love that the game makes that clear, i just think its a funny situation

[edgy nebula]

wasnt the village in the wip map literally called backer lion village

[exotic pumice]

oh it was?

[silk dirge]

theres also the mystery 2nd dungeon we dont know anything about

[exotic pumice]

2 dungeons actually

[silk dirge]

coral tower 2

[foggy fractal]

I mean, we still have no idea what became of the village right ? same with two other dungeons

[exotic pumice]

yep

who knows if they will ever be added

[silk dirge]

maybe one of the dungeons is gonna be the lab

[exotic pumice]

because technically, TC is not obligated to do this

thats kickstarter policies

[foggy fractal]

two dungeons still not in game, crazy work, when was hk kickstarter ? 2014 ? literally a decade of waiting 😭

[sinful nimbus]

TC is only capable of making 3 villages and fleshing out 2 sorry

[foggy fractal]

tragic

[edgy nebula]

yeah

[edgy river]

Wait idk about these dungeons what are y'all talking about

[exotic pumice]

got it

[edgy nebula]

when hk was in kickstarter there was an option to get your own dungeon made, 3 people bought it and only one has been made presumably

that being coral tower

[edgy river]

Oh, by dungeon you mean area?

Or like actual dungeons

[exotic pumice]

yes only one

other two were not

[foggy fractal]

here's the original kickstarter reward

Design a Dungeon and Boss! Design a dungeon with its own unique theme, then fill it with enemies and secrets! Work with the team to conceive a look, behaviour, environment and backstory for the Boss + an original watercolour artwork of your boss + an original watercolour artwork of the Hollow Knight + 7 extra copies of the game (10 total) + all rewards for the $75 tier.

[edgy river]

Got it

[edgy nebula]

honestly insane how much you got for this

[spark valve]

Well

It’s not like most of them got it

[edgy river]

Damn coral tower guy was kinda made dirty because it's kinda small but ig there are tons of cool designs and new enemies in there.... Maybe his ideas were used in the whole Karak as well?

[edgy nebula]

it can be assumed they got the artwork and copies, just not the dungeon

[edgy river]

If so that's nice, i actually really like Karak as an area, although it is small

[foggy fractal]

2/3s 😭

[edgy nebula]

4 backers who never got their content... do we think thisll be shoved into dlc

[exotic pumice]

no, i doubt it

sharpe yes, possibly

[fathom hill]

itd depend i think

case by case if the backers are still interested

[exotic pumice]

but the other things? like two dungeons, a village, and all of that screams that some sort of sequel is also in the plans

or tc is just yk, never gonna give it

cuz they arent obligated to

kickstarter policies

would be a bit of a bad move though

[fathom hill]

They may be working on it rn for what we know, but considering the sharpe guy didnt even know that his character wasnt in it

Im not sure

[edgy river]

Do y'all think we will actually get City of Steel as DLC?

I actually kinda like most Steel stuff being behind Steel Soul and wouldn't care if it wasn't explored much on normal saves (and therefore City of Steel would at most be a small area because locking a lot of stuff behind Steel Soul is insanity)

[foggy fractal]

wait really ? they don't have to implement things in game ?

[edgy nebula]

we cant say anything for sure

[foggy fractal]

that can't be right

[edgy nebula]

i guess tc doesnt HAVE to but itd be really sucky if they didnt

[fathom hill]

Im kind of convinced we will see the steel people again

[exotic pumice]

nope, they do not have to

[fathom hill]

thats what happens when you fund a project

[exotic pumice]

kickstarter says that if you back a project, the project isnt obligated to follow up on the tier rewards

[fathom hill]

you kind of sacrifice a bit of trust

[foggy fractal]

whaaaaaaaat

[exotic pumice]

and its always been like this

[fathom hill]

yah yah

[silk dirge]

do we think sharpes backer got nda'd

[exotic pumice]

now i do trust TC will deliver this stuff

but its also possible the backers who did the dungeon, and the village, just dont want their stuff in the games anymore

they may be busy with life or in general dont even play games

and dont care

[fathom hill]

maybe? his fiance has said a couple thing though

[exotic pumice]

yeah, didnt follow up for the last 15 days or so

[fathom hill]

theres no update on it?

[foggy fractal]

damn I was operating under the assumption that they have to at least implement the things in the reward tier, but ig if that was the case there would be hella legal shenanigans involved so why bother

[fathom hill]

Thats weird, maybe they did get got by nda

[edgy river]

I don't think they're planning this far ahead for now. Silksong being a sequel was a consequence of trying to make a HK dlc so they'll probably be working on SS for a while until a project gets too big

[fathom hill]

steel dlc is real

[silk dirge]

i mean i knew kickstarter needed a lot of caution for a while

[edgy river]

Either that or their next project will already be to big and we get no SS DLC and Zotebote in 2032

[exotic pumice]

oh, new update, 8 days ago

we missed it

tldr, no news

didnt message yet

[fathom hill]

yah exactly, almost a decade now some may be just no interested anymore

[unique canopy]

If they actually add the City of Steel, I'd rather it just be locked to a third game, because then they don't need to worry about it being Steel Soul exclusive, or can balance and design the entire game from the ground up with permadeath in mind.

[exotic pumice]

even sharpe's backer doesnt seem too interested, considering he hasnt messaged yet

[exotic pumice]

same here

it also sounds too big to be a dlc

[silk dirge]

theres a lot of like stuff in especially the 3d printing community about failed kickstarter projects

[spark valve]

They can just… not make it steel soul exclusive

[fathom hill]

yahh

[spark valve]

They don’t have to do that

[foggy fractal]

odd, it's not like TC hasn't been active, for example through the blogs

[fathom hill]

Maybe they did get the artwork and other stuff like said before

[sinful nimbus]

While they're at it they should remove steel soul too

[exotic pumice]

the artwork has been shown off, so yes they did

[fathom hill]

but the actual game things may just be afterthought rn

[silk dirge]

i think a hardcore mode is fine just have a more interesting mode there as well

never hurts to have it as an option

[fathom hill]

How likely do you think would that be

[foggy fractal]

watercolour artwork of the bosses ? I've seen ones for elder hu and markoth whilst I was looking at their wiki pages

[exotic pumice]

ah, no watercolor is public to us

but we do have official artwork

[edgy nebula]

ive seen some for gorb aswell

[fathom hill]

I can see tc being the kind of folk to do that honestly lol

[sinful nimbus]

Anyone who wants to play hardcore can do that without the need to create an entire new mode

[spark valve]

I mean assuming they aren’t stupid it’s more likely than making it only accessible in steel soul