sk-lore

[hexed kindle]

Go to act 3 wormways

[vestal swan]

Lifeblood mutation is crazy

[hexed kindle]

Very

You loose all sense of identity aswell

[elder rune]

Yeah no those mutations likely can’t be reversed, but I do have to wonder if a mutated, thinking bug can find themselves living a peaceful life even with those mutations?

[fathom hill]

Whos to say

[vestal swan]

Eh, we just see one guy who's obsessed with it already lose his mind and die. I don't really think there is a personality overwrite happening here

[abstract rivet]

I did but like

[fathom hill]

Myabe yarnaby like doctor could extract some of it but hornet is a bad example

[abstract rivet]

Does the infection mutate you even

[hexed kindle]

You cant even use the needlolin on lifeblood enemies

[fathom hill]

she is exceptional in the sense she can be overdosed and still be herself

[abstract rivet]

traitor mantises could be an example

but idk other examples

[vestal swan]

They don't have any kind of reaction anymore?

Hmmm

[hexed kindle]

No

[elder rune]

Yeah I kinda doubt that lol!

[vestal swan]

Maybe lifeblood is... I'm not going to say that

[fathom hill]

we have needolin memorie with zango at least

isnt zylotol and zango from outside pharloom?

[vestal swan]

That's just bloat from an already giant example of the species

[hexed kindle]

Also the lifeblood looks weirdly distinguished

[fathom hill]

why does the silk remember with them, if not silk in their body?

[vestal swan]

Bloating is not a mutation

[fathom hill]

or am i misremembering

[vestal swan]

Outskirt village like shakra iirc

[hexed kindle]

Lifeblood alters bugs dna itself the radiance is just fat orange blobs

[vestal swan]

We still have 4 of those we've never seen

[hexed kindle]

Which more say puppet bugs

[vestal swan]

Idk if I'd say altering dna, but yeah it's definitely an actual change, where orange Jello just bloats the body and where needed replaces fluids

[fathom hill]

huh

[elder rune]

My brother in Christ it’s literally surrounded by numerous infection boils, boils that are heavily implied to have infested the Forgotten Crossroads alongside one of the Black Egg seals being broken!

[hexed kindle]

Fair enough

[fathom hill]

so it was discovered in the edge of pharloom in salt stricken waters

[hexed kindle]

Its just spread more and bloat

[abstract rivet]

What kinda colour do aspids look without orange goo

[tender forge]

yeah, it replaces the host's body fluids acconrding to joni's blessing

[hexed kindle]

Pharloom bay proved

[fathom hill]

but the effects of it in its "natural" habitat im guessing werent documented yet?

[elder rune]

“Infection doesn’t mutate” my arse! Three out of these four featured enemies violently explode!!!

[fathom hill]

Pharloom bay is not on the edge though im sure

[hexed kindle]

Litreally just more bloated

[fathom hill]

isnt it near bilewater or something, that weird door or am i trippin

[hexed kindle]

Why it was right next to bilewater

[elder rune]

Even if that’s the case, these blatantly cause far more invasive & negative changes to a bug’s shell than Lifeblood!

[hexed kindle]

Bilewater is at the edge ✌️😭

Practically

[fathom hill]

Oh im just guessing zylotol may not be from bilewater

since huhh

hes no stilkin

[vestal swan]

I am not your brother in christ
And

• those blobs come from inside the bodies (thk is a source but not here) of resisting creatures
• the black egg seals are not holding back infection
• it's still not a mutation lol

[hexed kindle]

Lifeblood is way more parasitic tf are we talking abt

[elder rune]

You are obviously arguing in bad faith and likely baiting, so I will not discuss this further.

[fathom hill]

unless theres a clear separation between bilewater and pharloom bay

[vestal swan]

The volatile liquid replacing their fluids being a bomb is not a mutation, they are already dead. It's a physical substitution not a mutation

[fathom hill]

wait it may be something

[hexed kindle]

Probably

[vestal swan]

Nothing about what I've said is bad faith I'm laying it out as plainly as possible

Infection is not a mutation

[fathom hill]

Confirm for me if theres a door there

could this be a mantis village/deepnest situation?

[hexed kindle]

Where specifically

[hexed kindle]

Perhaps

[vestal swan]

It is a magical replacement of fluids sometimes
It manifests magically in bugs that resist
It causes bloat
It can explode
It is not part of the bug and it never was
It does not change things about the bug besides swelling them from the inside by being inside of them in the first place

[fathom hill]

fuck i dont remember if the weird unopened door is in

karak or bilewater

[hexed kindle]

Ill check bilewater

Soon

[abstract rivet]

is Karak just an strong fortified area

[tender forge]

i think it's in the weavenest in bilewater

[vestal swan]

It's a warrior nation of crab bug people

[abstract rivet]

Whats the deal with Putrified Ducts

[fathom hill]

in what sense

[abstract rivet]

I genuinely know why that area exists

whats it purpose

[vestal swan]

Pretty much all of the poison swamp adjacent areas are just full of waste from the citadel

They used to be full of plants or crops, or people's homes

[abstract rivet]

damn team cherry must loved playing dark souls 3

[hexed kindle]

That place does use pharloom bay assets

[vestal swan]

Ducts is like, the highest part that still connected to the sewers

[abstract rivet]

is this just their appreciation letter to Miyazaki

[hexed kindle]

And has clear water like weavenest murglin

[abstract rivet]

what is weavenest murglin

oh

[vestal swan]

Murglin??

[abstract rivet]

oh

oh nvm

[hexed kindle]

When i hope on ill do a rough sketch on where i think pharloom bay is

[abstract rivet]

yeah what is it

[hexed kindle]

Yh

It has clear water in one of the rooms

And pharloom bay assets

[stoic moth]

murglin the bilenest

[foggy fractal]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Bilewater#Sub-area:_Weavenest_Murglin

[tender forge]

they ARE the sewers basically

[abstract rivet]

Could you show images of pharloom bay assets? Thanks!

I wanna see the aesthetics of the area but i forgot

[hexed kindle]

When i get on i will

[vestal swan]

I didn't realize that was its name lol, I'm really bad at remembering names of things from this game. Give me 5 years I might remember

[abstract rivet]

whats your guys speculations on a hypothetical Pharloom Bay areas purpose

[vestal swan]

Fishing village on the outskirts

[foggy fractal]

yummy fish

[hexed kindle]

I have it's map on my laptop hold on

[abstract rivet]

maybe

[hexed kindle]

And the lifeblood spire

[ornate pier]

Barnacles pirates and you get to battle the lifeblood creature

A pirate boss would go so hard
He could plasmify himself mid fight or sum shit

[vestal swan]

4 unvisited villages are already talked about it could be one of them or a 5th
Pilgrim starter village
Shakras village
Xylotols village
Garmonds village
Bay village?

[ornate pier]

Xylotol is implied to be bay no?

[vestal swan]

Probably

[ornate pier]

And i assume the "pilgrim starter village" is bonebottom

[hexed kindle]

Ehhh

[vestal swan]

But since bay does not currently exist

[ornate pier]

He mentions salty waters

[foggy fractal]

we also have Forgehome that we never get to see 😔

[abstract rivet]

This could be really interesting

[vestal swan]

Oh forgehome!

[tender forge]

I just want some more lore on the lifeheart (what I call the lifeblood higher being)

[ornate pier]

Oh yeahhh

[abstract rivet]

YEAH FORGEHOME

[ornate pier]

Where TF is forgehome

[abstract rivet]

Why are Pharloom Bay hypothetical maps always the same shape and theyre so small

[vestal swan]

Bonebottom isn't that the starter village it's basically the starter camp where the pilgrimage starts, I mean where all of these pilgrims are coming from

[ornate pier]

Theres a theory garmond is from nameless town (The population that got lured down into pharloom ig)

Because his hat looks like the houses or sum shit

[vestal swan]

No it's way too old for that

[abstract rivet]

I think the slab big guy is from nameless town

[fathom hill]

weaver with that name is so funny, like we have such fem names like atla, camora, cindril

[abstract rivet]

he isnt Conductor Romino

[fathom hill]

and then there was one called fucking murglin

[ornate pier]

Yeah i wish that was more clear

[vestal swan]

HERRA

[abstract rivet]

Conductor Romino probably left because blasted steps has an conductor mask and theres 3 conductors which we know about what happened to 2 so this indicates romino just headed the fuck out

[ornate pier]

I guess they could be coming from all over the world or some shit

Wait wasnt there something like

[fathom hill]

why is my text evil

wth

??

[ornate pier]

Nvm

[vestal swan]

Well that's part of the problem, most of the pilgrims coming in to do the pilgrimage are descendants of the old pilgrims, because they have silk passed down in them that is making them susceptible to be haunted

[ornate pier]

Yeah

[vestal swan]

That looks like a message that failed to send

[abstract rivet]

Pharloom Bay and Memory DLC are my predictions for the DLC lineup and also city of steel

[ornate pier]

Is the citadel doing like messed up shit

Like controlling their birth

[abstract rivet]

I wonder when we’ll get the first dlc

8 months

[ornate pier]

Making sure they a new batch of pilgrims is always born at like the starting point

[vestal swan]

I think that's the one thing they aren't doing to the pilgrims

[fathom hill]

it didnt even pop it just turned red

idk anymore

[abstract rivet]

Or team cherry decides to announce it on a random tuesday

[vestal swan]

This is not accessible in the game it does not exist

[abstract rivet]

i wish these photos were higher resolution

[ornate pier]

Non everbloom elegy bosses would go so hard please TC

Fuckin clean groal ❤️‍🩹

[vestal swan]

I'm also not going to try and squint my eyes and try to decipher what the fuck is going on in that blurry image

[fathom hill]

these are images of the museum im sure

these are bound to happen eventually

[vestal swan]

We're probably not going to get to visit most of these villages in DLC but the fact that there's still like five around the kingdom we can't see is crazy

[hexed kindle]

pharloom bay

[tender forge]

a fight against shakra's master would be fire

[vestal swan]

[ornate pier]

The fabled z axis or sum shit

[snow sonnet]

The first image is a lifeblood spire
The second image contains an entrance to the cut pharloom bay (august 2025 map that didn't make it in)

[ornate pier]

Elegy of the deep has so much untapped potential

Dream rematches but better

[vestal swan]

I don't understand what these are supposed to be

[ornate pier]

Barnacles

One was shown in bay in a trailer

Or smth

[vestal swan]

Okay yeah but what do the first two images mean is one of them in the game?

[tender forge]

we can find out about ant racism lore

[hexed kindle]

pharloom bay exists we just dont know hat it looks like

[hexed kindle]

yessir

[blissful harbor]

is this not the flying thing you see during the nameless town ascent
or am i crazy

[hexed kindle]

the right one

is the left one

which means its the bottom one

[hexed kindle]

no

[vestal swan]

What

[hexed kindle]

its a riddle

or puzzle

im bored

[hexed kindle]

pic on the right is ingame pic on left is the sprite

[vestal swan]

It's barely a shadow how did anybody think that was a bug

Where is this anyway

In game

[blissful harbor]

memorium
my phone hates thst word

[tender forge]

memorium

[fathom hill]

this is the sprite in files?

or a recreation

[foggy fractal]

it is in the files

[foggy fractal]

and it is in game

[hexed kindle]

pharloom bay assets

[fathom hill]

Ah cool

no yeah pharloom bay definitely coming in an expansion

[hexed kindle]

and mystreious clearwater

[fathom hill]

i wonder now

[hexed kindle]

save file art aswell

[fathom hill]

If zylotol may be supposed to come from pharloom bay

would the quest for us to visit the site be related to him in any way?

[hexed kindle]

i dont think so but maybe

[fathom hill]

or idk other researchers like him

[craggy smelt]

dunno where he's from, but he mentioned his master finding lifeblood in 'salt stricken waters'

[fathom hill]

he says he had a teacher or something no

[craggy smelt]

sounds like barloom bay, especially since the 'lifeblood spire' was seemingly nearby

Plasmium was discovered by my master at the farthest edge of Pharloom, hidden deep in salt-stricken waters. I brought it to these caves under her direction, to study how it flourishes in a foreign place.

[fathom hill]

yeah also "edge" of pharloom

[hexed kindle]

oo cut dialouge

[fathom hill]

theres a sea?

or it was cut ig

[vestal swan]

No sea until we see it

[tender forge]

will there be barnacles?

[craggy smelt]

presumably that's what the bay was near

[vestal swan]

No pun intended

[fathom hill]

Huh weird

so far weve only seen lakes

imagine the moving kingdom of the steel people is just a boat

[vestal swan]

Lakes puddles and an invisible river

[hexed kindle]

this is also referenced as "LAB" in aris sketchbook

[hexed kindle]

it exists we just cant see it

simple

[fathom hill]

Interesting

[vestal swan]

Nah

[tender forge]

maybe we'll get to see the elusive lifeheart that pumps it's wretched blue blood everywhere

[vestal swan]

If the only dialogue about it is cut it doesn't exist

[hexed kindle]

dawg "salt stricken waters" is canon fym😭

[craggy smelt]

the Weavenest in Bilewater references being between 'salt and stone'
the pale lake isn't especially salty, so 'salt' might refer to salt waters below
the pale lake could drain into the sea

[vestal swan]

Salt water doesn't have to be an ocean, it's all underground it could just be a salt rock in a pond

And they changed terminology for this type of reason before

[fathom hill]

wouldnt it be the other way around or unrelated

[craggy smelt]

at least presuming lakes are still fresh-water in holloworld

[fathom hill]

how does a lake make a sea

or you mean like

[hexed kindle]

that still doesnt change assets and characters being used ingame i still believe we will get some form of pharloom bay ingame

[fathom hill]

some water from the lake ends up in the sea below

[craggy smelt]

that's how it works in real life - lakes are freshwater from rain and icecap melt, they drain into the salt-water sea

[hexed kindle]

probably heavily changed

[tender forge]

prolly that

[fathom hill]

Im sure our sea (or oceans ig) were there before any lakes

[vestal swan]

Oh I'm not saying that the bay doesn't exist, in concept yes, the in-game version could permanently be ruined and we can never explore it though.
I'm saying that the sea doesn't exist

[craggy smelt]

yeah, the pale lake is pouring down into Bilewater - you can find its pure waters also in the area that Shakra's master dies in
if Pharloom Bay is located below and east of Bilewater, the pale lake waters might reach a salt ocean

[hexed kindle]

oh okay

[fathom hill]

the icecap melts yes, but they do cuz the mountains evolve overtime and the water rises and falls in cycles

[quiet bronze]

Please make a zone full of that blue stuff 🙏

[fathom hill]

millions of years you get snowy mountains, and rivers

and those rivers change and become lakes

unless im missing something

[vestal swan]

We have an icy mountain that is still underground on top of a magma pit

I'm not going to apply any of our geology to it

[quiet bronze]

Imagine team cherry expands the game with a DLC and shows what's past the areas hornet wasn't able to reach after she and lace come out of the void?

Would be cool

[vestal swan]

Also the ice can magically reform itself

[hexed kindle]

cool detail

[quiet bronze]

Fr

[fathom hill]

yeah but im arguing, if its really a sea, these two bodies of water may not be related

[hexed kindle]

what if the memory crystals are silkfly related

[vestal swan]

Wha

[hexed kindle]

which explains the memory

[fathom hill]

some water could be going down into the sea if its below it, but not that one created the other

actually i may have just interpreted the og message wrong

[hexed kindle]

how else could they remember the shape

[vestal swan]

Oh I have my own crackhead theory for that

I think they are all part of something that used to be way bigger and they can't remember the shape properly so they keep reforming into little circles

[tender forge]

you know, this talk reminded me of that theory about the Karak river coming from mount fay

[fathom hill]

this is believe

[vestal swan]

That doesn't make sense

[craggy smelt]

i wasn't suggesting that the entire sea came from pale lake lol
just that given the location, I'd be surprised if the pale lake waters didn't reach there

[vestal swan]

The weavers visiting the bird before everything went to shit would suggest that the mountain was already icy and the bird already lived there back when basically GMS set it all up

[abstract rivet]

Where’s Greymoor rain coming from?

[vestal swan]

Steam and machinery

[fathom hill]

got confused by this

[abstract rivet]

does it rain bug waste

[vestal swan]

Not in the moor

[hexed kindle]

im so sad that coral gorge got cut

[fathom hill]

how does a lake make a sea, well yeah irl stuff

[abstract rivet]

i wish Greymoor had better soundtrack it wouldve made the area more memorable

[tender forge]

iirc, the theory said that mount fay wasn't ALWAYS frozen over 24/7, so when the snow melted, itran down to Karak. the coral tower is directly below mount fay

[unique tangle]

not to say the world of HK is realistic but you know what dormant volcanoes are right

[fathom hill]

bug waste with silk

[vestal swan]

Yeah, but they're both underground so

[unique tangle]

it probably makes more sense for a mountain to be sat atop flowing magma chambers

[fathom hill]

something something theres microplastics in the rain

[vestal swan]

I mean like we have the top of a mountain that is also underground

[unique tangle]

im not talking about that part

[hexed kindle]

cut in 2021 so dont hold out hope that ts will be added btw

[vestal swan]

I'm aware that volcanoes can have active magma inside them and snow on top if that's what you mean

[fathom hill]

ehem that also makes indigenous people that have never interacted with plastic (the craws) to have microplastics in their bodies

[unique tangle]

just that a snowy mountain atop caves filled magma flow is completely natural

[abstract rivet]

where does the bug waste come from

[vestal swan]

No I was just saying the strange part is that they're both in the same underground cavern

[halcyon merlin]

@vestal swan can you go into #sk-help

[vestal swan]

Maybe

[halcyon merlin]

[fathom hill]

Bilewater and the ducts just above, it may seep into the ground

[unique tangle]

your wording implied that the entire scenario was ridiculous,

[abstract rivet]

how the fu

[stuck nymph]

Could you quickly look in #sk-help

[fathom hill]

unless

[stuck nymph]

Modcase

Thank you

[fathom hill]

im seeing the map wrong lemme check

mmm

where does this part rain come from

[abstract rivet]

This is weird

[craggy smelt]

silk-infused fog from the Mist, pumped in through the Z-axis

[fathom hill]

does the mist travel through ducts or something?

[craggy smelt]

maybe, its filled up caverns in the area

pipes from the citadel into the organ, certainly

[hexed kindle]

ducts... air ducts

[craggy smelt]

from there it seems like Phantom was just blasting it out into the environment

[fathom hill]

but we dont see like rain in bilewater or sinners road

unless maybe cuz its a more open area?

[vestal swan]

I mean as a whole yeah but no not the individual parts

[unique canopy]

There are parts of City of Tears that are raining even though they're not directly above the Blue Lake

[craggy smelt]

maybe it drifts down and condenses over Greymoor

[fathom hill]

lemme check the map

[prime scaffold]

Kind of confused, so Lace switched spots with her from being taken to the void and is holding the silk queen back?

[fathom hill]

cuz it could just seep through the rock

side

ways??

idk

[craggy smelt]

Silk is holding back the Void to protect Lace, her threads are holding on to Pharloom and the Void is traveling along them

[fathom hill]

yah it has the same weird thing

prolly nothing then

just weird worldbuilding cuz we need a place that is raining but everythings underground

[fathom hill]

maybe greymoor is cooler cuz of the

windmills?

and that makes it condense but in bilewater its still just humid

[craggy smelt]

greymoor is probably cooler because it's further away from the magma

bilewater's pollution is from the ducts overhead leaking down

moreso than the mist organ

[fathom hill]

magma from where, the underworks?

[halcyon merlin]

well yeah below it

[craggy smelt]

no, like deep down in the far fields/marrow region

[halcyon merlin]

wait

[craggy smelt]

underworks magma seems to be from stones shipped up from there

[halcyon merlin]

im confusing underworks with deep docks

[fathom hill]

But then greymoor is nearer no?

Greymoor is directly above it compared to bilewater

how would it be cooler

[vestal swan]

Big fans smh

Don't you know they make windmills to cool off the planet

[fathom hill]

crazy

[craggy smelt]

and kill all the birds

[fathom hill]

weavers are assholes

putting the windmills in the craws dominion

anyways more sustainable tc commentary lets go

[craggy smelt]

but re. rain in greymoor
I think greymoor is cooler than the marrowlands regions because its further away from the magma
so the silk-choked mist from the mist organ condenses there
I don't think there's silk rain in bilewater because the mist organ isn't pumping much there, it's set far down and on the edge of bilewater, above Greymoor
and Sinner's Road seems closed off as well from the organ (you need to break walls to reach it)

bilewater's pollution seems mostly from the putrefied ducts, liquid waste

[tender forge]

i always thought the windmills were the conductors' doing, since they were part of the silk extractions thing

[craggy smelt]

yeah

[hexed kindle]

no the windmills and greymoor itself used to be a framing land as windmills are used for farming then the weavers came and used them for silk

[fathom hill]

itd make more sense for the conductors

[hexed kindle]

the citadel didnt build the windmills

[craggy smelt]

maybe they used to be for regular farming and were repurposed to gather silk

[fathom hill]

there's more reason for the conductors to get silk than the weavers

[hexed kindle]

litreally just said this

[craggy smelt]

i think you're right

[tender forge]

oh, ok i missed that part

[fathom hill]

but they still put them in the craws dominion

unless you meant to respond to the other guy

[fathom hill]

Again how is it further away

[hexed kindle]

the craws may have been more chill back then

[fathom hill]

am i going blind

[hexed kindle]

or not

[fathom hill]

Oh fair

[tender forge]

maybe they even hanged around with the burning bugs

[craggy smelt]

greymoor is above deep docks/farfields, which are above the magma

[tender forge]

since the structures in the moor are made of bamboo, we can somewhat deduce that greymoor used to look like whisp thicket

[hexed kindle]

the burning bugs are kinda suicidal so no

[hexed kindle]

yeah

[olive quartz]

i mean. did they? the windmills are in the part of greymoor without craws

[hexed kindle]

also true

[fathom hill]

I always assumed they were moved

[olive quartz]

the farthest west the craws get is the halfway home, and that seems like a somewhat recent infestation

[fathom hill]

Hence why some craws appear in halfway home

[olive quartz]

and the windmills are all past the halfway home

[fathom hill]

But why would it be cooler than bilewater if that were the case

Wouldn't that make it warmer?

the closest you are of magma would make you warmer, not cooler

this is one of the things I've ever said

[olive quartz]

when did anyone argue bilewater was warmer?

./gen

[hexed kindle]

bilewater is just wet

[fathom hill]

I was saying that

[hexed kindle]

and a lil humid

[fathom hill]

if it was the mist the one doing the rain in greymoor

[olive quartz]

why?

[fathom hill]

why does it rain in greymoor but not in bilewater or sinners road

[hexed kindle]

its just silk from the citadel not the mist

[fathom hill]

And I argued, oh maybe cuz greymoor is cooler

so the mist condenses down in greymoor but stays humid in bilewater

[hexed kindle]

thats why the guys hold their forks towards the sky to catchsilk and respool it

[hexed kindle]

recylcing silk

[dawn gyro]

guys ngl what if masks have like personalities carved into them, this would explain why styx would be a false species of the huntress but still act like the male counterpart

[fathom hill]

@craggy smelt is arguing that the proximity of greymoor to the far fields makes it cooler

[unique tangle]

this is true
from TC's blog

The misted fields and dilapidated towers are now infested with Crawbugs, devious nesting types, and the former tenders of the land have become haunted.

[unique canopy]

If waste water from the Citadel is flowing through the Ducts and into Bilewater, it would make sense for Bilewater to be warmer because waste water is usually warmer. By the time it gets down to Greymoor it would've cooled off. Sewer mains give off steam like crazy in the winter.

[hexed kindle]

the rain is SILK which gets respooled from the citadel

[fathom hill]

but that's not possible cuz why would be near lava make it cooler

[hexed kindle]

NOT waste

its just silk

[fathom hill]

Rather than bilewater that is farther from the lava

And I asked if he meant the underworks but no

[olive quartz]

it's pretty well insulated from the lava to be fair

[hexed kindle]

actully some of it probably is wet waste

[hexed kindle]

but a majority is silk

[fathom hill]

Yah but yak is arguing otherwise

that is the proximity of it making it cooler

and I'm confused by the logic of it

[olive quartz]

yak only says greymoor is cooler than the marrowlands

[abstract rivet]

What kinda liquid is in Fleatopia

[olive quartz]

which is just. True

[fathom hill]

Wait

does the mist reach the marrowlands?

[dawn gyro]

saltwater of sorts, mineral water

[fathom hill]

Not, right?

why would the marrowlands come to discussion

[hexed kindle]

NO

[olive quartz]

it would have to get through like 4 areas to do so

[unique canopy]

The marrowlands are literally bone dry

[dawn gyro]

no bro the mist only surrounds the exhaust organ

[hexed kindle]

The silken waste fallen from the citadel gets filtered through and gets respooled in greymoor

[fathom hill]

I'm genuinely confused on where did the marrowlands thing even came up in the discussion

[hexed kindle]

it didnt

[fathom hill]

I never mentioned it, I assumed we were still talking abt bilewater

[fathom hill]

That's what I assumed

[dawn gyro]

I imagine the silk dregs are dried and woven together into silk to be spooled

[hexed kindle]

it will NEVER reach lower than greymoor

[hexed kindle]

yes thats what happens

[fathom hill]

but we were saying why some areas that are not connected in any way to bilewater still rain

Like the oart where above is wisp ticket

Unless is the z axis doing ita job again?

[vestal swan]

This conversation started asking why does it rain in the moor

[fathom hill]

Or just yknow

videogam

[olive quartz]

frankly greymoor rains because it would make less sense for it not to rain

[vestal swan]

I mean with that name yeah

[dawn gyro]

prolly that

[hexed kindle]

because wispthicket is hotter and also the flame cult uses SILK for theyre flames and lanterns

[fathom hill]

Literally

[olive quartz]

like, the rain in city of tears was purely a creative choice. it could've just not rained and nobody would question why it didn't rain

[fathom hill]

What doe sthat have to do with the fact that it rains there

[olive quartz]

but in a gloomy area like greymoor the rain was essentially a thematic necessity

[fathom hill]

mist that is hotter does not turn liquid

it just stays a gas

No?

Unless I'm genuinely tweakin

[olive quartz]

i mean. clouds condense into rain but still stay clouds for a time

[hexed kindle]

it doesnt rain in wispthicket

[fathom hill]

but below it it does

[dawn gyro]

the silk is burned up for use of the flame

[hexed kindle]

yes

[dawn gyro]

I think the mist just pool at the roofs of the moors and rains there

[olive quartz]

the mist could exist as both mist and water under certain conditions, it doesn't need to condense all at once

[fathom hill]

I mean there's a reason they said its the lake above

cuz yknow everything's underground

same with greymoor

Also kind of related

[olive quartz]

okay but the blue lake is still nonsense because nothing fills it

[hexed kindle]

wisp thicket is tiny and doesnt have a background with alot of DEPTH whilst greymoor is vast and big so only a small amount of silk goes to wisp thicket

[olive quartz]

it's a creative decision

[fathom hill]

I think some people drew comparisons with the divine comedy on which sinners are bathed in waste too?

never read it though i could be silkposting

[fathom hill]

You're saying the rain is not silk infused water but just silk?

[hexed kindle]

just because the gameplay is 2d doesnt mean the world is 2 dimensional

[hexed kindle]

NO

also the leftover waste is just burned

[fathom hill]

Then why does the nature of wisp ticket come into discussion

[hexed kindle]

because yall making up dumbass shit

[fathom hill]

yah but its a justification

not a perfect one, but its one

[olive quartz]

also yknow aren't caves of the scale we see in greymoor generally formed by water? pharloom could just be wet as a rule aside from the regions that are right next to lava

[unique canopy]

It's less about temperature and more about concentration. Cold air turns mist into rain easier, but high enough concentrations in warm air can still turn into rain. The issue with temperature is more than hot air rises, while cold air stays near the surface, so in the real world warm air won't become mist anyway. But if it's an enclosed area (like an underground setting like Pharloom) you can still have humid misty hot air, like in saunas.

[fathom hill]

I'm not understanding

[fathom hill]

I get that, but then again why does greymoor rain

[hexed kindle]

wispthicket has no rain as its just a couple caverns plus its burned and used for the wisps the rest just goes to greymoor

[fathom hill]

If it is the mist leaking into greymoor why does it rain there

This of course ignoring if ut is the most probable option, that its the water from the ducts leaking down

[hexed kindle]

it isnt mist

[fathom hill]

Let's assume that it's the mist from the organ

[olive quartz]

why must we assume that?

[fathom hill]

If it is the mist from the organ, driven through by ducts in the z axis, which was the original discussion, why would it rain in greymoor but not in bilewater?

[fathom hill]

Because that was what I was discussing

[dawn gyro]

bilewater is mostly above the mist

[hexed kindle]

Its leftover silken waste from the citadel which filters through the multiple layers of land

[olive quartz]

shellwood, right next door, is a giant forest with a huge lake above an area full of lava, and thus presumably pretty humid

[fathom hill]

People get into conversations without seeing the topic smh my head

[dawn gyro]

bro fr tho the mist is basically below bilewater, its at the very bottom of it

[olive quartz]

yak is not saying that's correct it just makes sense to him

[dawn gyro]

bug-waste and silk-waste are seperate things tho, like you wouldnt be mixing healing material with compost

[fathom hill]

first response was prolly to this

[fathom hill]

yah but we were arguing this in particular

[olive quartz]

greymoor could just Be Humid

[fathom hill]

There's silk in their bodies, put there by generations

[olive quartz]

it's right next to an area that is pretty easily assumed to be highly humid

[fathom hill]

Bug waste does have silk in it

[dawn gyro]

oohh shi ur right

[fathom hill]

The citadel just reuses it

[hexed kindle]

it is

[fathom hill]

I asked if there's a way that greymoor is cooler, and that's why the mist condenses

[olive quartz]

bistec are you asking where the silk rains from or where the water comes from in greymoor in general

[fathom hill]

that was my thesis

[olive quartz]

i mean it very well could be. it's dreary. it's literally blue

[fathom hill]

I'll repeat myself so y'all can understand

Nevermind

I'm too lazy

[fathom hill]

I was saying, if the rain in that place wasn't just because of the waste leaking down, but it rather was from the work of the organ

How would it work, and why does it rain there and not in bilewater

[dawn gyro]

wait what if all the bilewater stuff is from energy waste, like coal n stuff that ended up in the water so it had to be taken out through the putrified ducts, not to mention the smog that could have polluted the water, then the exhaust organ is a seperate thing that takes the waste and silk apart and turns the silk into mist which clouds and turns into greymoor rain, while the rest gets turned into stuff that gets shoved into bilewater

[olive quartz]

i mean. the exhaust organ itself is probably pretty hot. it could just be that specific region of bilewater that is hotter than greymoor

[fathom hill]

I said "oh, it's cause it's cooler from the windmills" so it condenses there and not in bilewater that is more humid

Now, if it's not the windmills why is it cooler in greymoor

i think i got confused with yak cuz they said greymoor is cooler because of their proximity to far fields

which makes no sense

[dawn gyro]

maybe winds from lands beyond? (on the z axis) also windmills are generators of energy, which is used for silk spooling

[olive quartz]

....it is not the windmills, to be clear; i am going to assume you were joking

[fathom hill]

half joking

Mostly just throwing options into the wind

[olive quartz]

mills

[dawn gyro]

haha

[fathom hill]

[dawn gyro]

ok but fr tho windmills only work because of WIND, implying theres atleast some drafts which can cause weather thus rain

[unique canopy]

Are we literally tilting at windmills here

[dawn gyro]

so greymoor is probably just part of a very long cavern that has wind in it

[fathom hill]

There's wind inside caves for the difference of heat

giving how we have lava lands and ice mountain

yah there's bound to be wind

[dawn gyro]

wind cools things down doesnt it?

[fathom hill]

Ehh? kind of?

It depends

[dawn gyro]

I think that theres some z axis shenanigans that carry winds from mt fay into greymoor, however its not freezing greymoor bcs far fields below it warms up the wind atleast a little bit

[fathom hill]

Again I wondered if they meant the lava from the underworks too

apparently not

[dawn gyro]

underworks too

[prime scaffold]

Was this something in HK1

[silk dirge]

i hate to admit r/silksong has had some banger posts recently

https://www.reddit.com/r/Silksong/comments/1ox333u/interesting_detail_ive_noticed_between_two/

[olive quartz]

yes, the delicate flower

[fathom hill]

r/silksong always has banger posts wym

nevermind imagine using reddit

[dawn gyro]

brooo I literally brought this up once here but it was mostly ignored

interesting take on the sigil tho

I thought it waws just because of detail cramming into a small space

[fathom hill]

Tragedy

happens often

[prime scaffold]

Do we know how long ago is Silksong from HK1? This line here made me realize what I thought was soon after, but i guess i was wrong

[hexed kindle]

quite some time

[fathom hill]

We don't know age or generations wise

[hexed kindle]

we dont know the exact numbers tho

[fathom hill]

But given Hornet seems so different from the Hornet in hk it must have been some time

[dawn gyro]

red memory shows that it was from when hornet was visiting the white lady when she was still in the white palace, so eehh maybe maybe not soon afterwards

[quiet narwhal]

The distant past refered to there is back before hallownest's total collapse, tbf. But considering how long hornet can age, I think it's safe to say it's a long time span

[fathom hill]

Lotta introspection to actually reject your self imposed old purpose

[silk dirge]

we dont really have a timeline connecting the 2

[prime scaffold]

Hu, when i did HK1 ending 3, it ended with Hornett about to fight someone

Thought she was about to fight some Citadel bugs and lost- thus ended up the beginning of Silksong

[real torrent]

We know that masks are powerful and change ones personality. Well I just realized that phantom's mask is becide them when playing the organ and he puts it on to start fighting. This is just an interesting thing I noticed and I don't know if it has significance to phantom lore.

[silk dirge]

for all we know hk happened while the citadel was still ruled by weavers

its very possible

[fathom hill]

What we see in the cutscene is thk exiting the egg

she was preparing to fight them then

[quiet narwhal]

I do kinda wish we got to see the aftermath of thk in godhome ending :P

[dawn gyro]

whether they ACTUALLY fought or not is up for debate tho

[silk dirge]

its possible thk just collapsed right there

[fathom hill]

Yah

[fathom hill]

imagine they just died

and that's the closure they got

lmao

[silk dirge]

would explain why thk wasnt helping hornet when 20 choir clappers jumped her

[fathom hill]

Hornet does not mention thk ever or allude to them

[silk dirge]

she does

[fathom hill]

So like who is to say what was of them

[fathom hill]

Aside from the lace dialogue

[dawn gyro]

I like to think that thk just became a wanderer of wherever the fuc, like that one character in the quirrel comic

[silk dirge]

she mentions a "birth cursed sibling"

in hk

[unique canopy]

"Not my problem" as THK relaxes at the nearest hot spring

[fathom hill]

in ss i meant

[silk dirge]

oh

[fathom hill]

Like after the whole thing

[silk dirge]

i mean thats for ambiguous ending stuff i think

[fathom hill]

we are talking abt what came of them come on

sorry im being mean

[fathom hill]

More power to them honestly

also prolly hornet and THK wouldn't really know each other, unless they bonded somehow after the ending

but given how the hk ending is meant to be ambiguous who is to say

[silk dirge]

it would be really funny if gms sent like 40 maestros so all hornet could hear was "OLARIS" "VECTA" "UNA ELAIN"

[fathom hill]

I like to think they're out there doing their stuff

[pliant cloud]

Can I send secret Siksong dialogues here? 🗿

[silk dirge]

yes

[fathom hill]

secret?

[silk dirge]

all spoilers are allowed here

[dawn gyro]

silksong basically deconfirmed sealed siblings tho, and also the regular ending since we see the knights power shade form in the ending cutscene that appears when we defeat radiance

[fathom hill]

mysterious dialogue

[pliant cloud]

Secret dialogue for having 4 hearts 👀

[dawn gyro]

yes

[fathom hill]

Its ambiguos whether the ending resulting in sister of the void is the regular true ending or the pantheon ones

since shade lord appears

and thk shade doesnt appear

[pliant cloud]

It's also true that it's in Spanish and not English so you can understand what it says 🗿

[dawn gyro]

I think thats for ambiguity like scrodingers void or smthn

[hexed kindle]

its embrace the void ending tf are we talking about

[fathom hill]

huhhhhh

[steep ridge]

not physically there

[fathom hill]

huhhh

[hexed kindle]

DAWG PLEASE WATCH SOME LORE VIDEOS

[steep ridge]

the cutscene shows the potential for either route to have happened, it's schrodinger's radiance ending, simple as that

[fathom hill]

yeah

[steep ridge]

it flashes on screen for a moment, it's not physically there

[fathom hill]

ambiguos

as i said

as ive always said

[dawn gyro]

thats what I said

[hexed kindle]

barely

[steep ridge]

not barely

[fathom hill]

sure? but its a narrative choice to put shade lord there

like im not even

[silk dirge]

some people really seem to not get the concept of ambiguous endings

[hexed kindle]

2 endings isnt that ambigous

[steep ridge]

and it's a narrative choice for the siblings to be there as well

[fathom hill]

i dont even know man

[hexed kindle]

its more concrete

[limpid summit]

The fact is that physically VGform (DNM) is seen and VGFocus is flashed. For all intents and purposes it is ambiguous - it isn’t known whether TC will continue that ambiguity in DLC

[fathom hill]

exactly

[sinful nimbus]

?tag info jokerpsa

[gleaming basin]

No tag jokerpsa found in category info.

[fathom hill]

both are there

[sinful nimbus]

[fathom hill]

like???

im actually confused

[steep ridge]

1984

[silk dirge]

hokerpsa

[limpid summit]

Hit their spines to get the item you need

[silk dirge]

i love far fields

[sinful nimbus]

That quest is garbage

[dawn gyro]

the flash is prolly us temporarily seeing into the ending of ss where shade lord DOES happen, but we mostly just see the radiance ending one

[limpid summit]

Genuinely took me 15 minutes

I couldn’t figure it out

[steep ridge]

took me like 3

[fathom hill]

Id say not having thk shade appear is also a narrative choice

[dawn gyro]

LMAO bro got shot down so fast

[tawdry flare]

Same 😭

[steep ridge]

well the siblings aren't actually there, they flash in the same way the shade lord does

they're there and they're not there, the only one we know for certain is there is the knight

[limpid summit]

Personally I think it’s post EtV as much as I don’t like it because I think the THK EtV cutscene was more sequel bait than open ended

But it’s ambiguous

That’s how it is

[hexed kindle]

in the shade lord endings is there siblings

[sinful nimbus]

"Man I hope the quests are meaningful content or at the very least guide you to interesting lands"
The humble Flexile Spines and Crawbug Clearing:

[steep ridge]

the siblings aren't shown at all

[fathom hill]

Id again say that this is a narrative choice by tc to make us select what ending we like best

[dawn gyro]

imo the void lakes are all one giant sea that spans between the kingdoms

[limpid summit]

The GOATED Hidden Hunter:

[steep ridge]

yeah

[fathom hill]

since that was the previous logic with "all endings are canon" thing

[tawdry flare]

Act 4 will have split paths based on which Hollow Knight ending you choose

[hexed kindle]

ok so its either ETV or radiance

[sinful nimbus]

TRUE

[dawn gyro]

the what

[prime scaffold]

oh really? What happened after that then do we know

[limpid summit]

Gurr the Outcast top 3 act 3 characters

[steep ridge]

etv is also a radiance ending

[lapis creek]

the boss kind of sucks but it's a cool quest

[fathom hill]

We don't know sadly

[hexed kindle]

i know that

[prime scaffold]

weird

[dawn gyro]

its a radiance ending except somebody else dies and the other person stays alive

[fathom hill]

We don't know what could have came up for thk since hornet doesnt mention them in ss

and we obviously dont see it

[dawn gyro]

prolly for lack of needing to mention em

[steep ridge]

nobody dies in dnm besides radiance?

[silk dirge]

el chiefo gurr is gilly's dad theory

[hexed kindle]

WRONG

[fathom hill]

Also maintaining the ambiguity of endings

[steep ridge]

never cook again

[sinful nimbus]

SCREAM IF YOU LOVE EL CHIEFO

ok but it lowk makes sense

[dawn gyro]

thk is g o n e in the reg radiance ending, and in etv the godseeker dies instead

[hexed kindle]

wanna hear my stee; city theory

[olive quartz]

the knight "dies" at least as much as it had lived before becoming one with the void

[fathom hill]

thk is an awkward conversation because tc insists on not making one sole ending canon

[sinful nimbus]

If Gurr Gilly has no fans I am dead

[fathom hill]

So thk is both a shade and not

[dawn gyro]

the knight 'dies' in either ending

[steep ridge]

the knight doesn't die at all???

[tawdry flare]

No

[limpid summit]

You are dead

[sinful nimbus]

Yes

[fathom hill]

Showing them in any regard would make one ending canon, and tc doesnt want that basically

[limpid summit]

Yes I would

[dawn gyro]

yes we know they dont really 'die' but in a semi physical sense they do

[fathom hill]

unless they pull a, oh shades can retain their forms before

[limpid summit]

Gurr Gilly <<<< Skarrhunter Gurr

[olive quartz]

the knight dies to the extent that it can never return to hallownest

[steep ridge]

their shell breaks but that's hardly death

[hexed kindle]

Ok so when we see mentions of the steel city in both games the rulers of the city are described as not seeking order which can be akin to the void civilastion and the void itself as void does not have order so perhaps the rulers are akin to the void perhaps yet still have sentience due to them still being part bug being similar to the vessels. HOWEVER it is said they do not seek order perhaps they may be a void race maybe an evolved species akin to the creatures that reside in the void. What i think so far is that they may have been apart of the ancient civilization which explains sula's ability to construct the summoned saviour which is made out of void But perhaps after some time they split into 3 factions. The snail shamans,the steel city and the rest remained the void civilastion. You may be thinking why i said the snail shamans the reason being is that their shells are akin to the ones found in the void also they know about the void and the snail shamans in act 3 are described as "having ties" to the void and i dont think the shamans reside in a single pilgrim i think they travel across the Hollow world (the hollow knight planet im calling it the hollow world as the core of it is void i think) sharing teachings or trying to seek power or test power which is

[steep ridge]

says who, and where

[hexed kindle]

what the snail shamans wish to do as seen in silksong as the bell hermit says in the silk and soul quest "I'll give it. Not in the hope you'll succeed... Bah! In that, there's slim chance. I give just to see that restless energy unleashed." No the steel city i think is located in the "serene lands" in which the grey mourner is from said serene lands where the delicate flower came from however i think this land is located near the abyss like incredibly close the reason being is sulas affinity for void and also how the steel seers and shamans are in both silksong and hollow knight and we know how the void most likely spans the whole world they could use the void for travel but i doubt it or they could go across the desolate wastes which i doubt idrk but i still think the steel city is in the serene fields as void is warded off by the delicate flowers. thats kinda the end for now as i gotta do stuff later i would yap for longer abt this but ill save it for another day

[fathom hill]

which makes no sense, cuz mask cracking has been shown to break someones identity

[olive quartz]

...shell breaking is literally the knight's death animation

[limpid summit]

WYRM AC SHAMAN

[fathom hill]

widow, its just widow

and maskmaker dialogue

[steep ridge]

it's different in the radiance endings

[hexed kindle]

huh?...

[limpid summit]

Star I told you Wyrm AC Shaman would catch on

[olive quartz]

it's stuck in the void lake, it can't go chat with like quirrel or whomever it actually cares for

[limpid summit]

The steel masters will be a triumvirate: a Wyrm an AC member and a Snail Shaman

[olive quartz]

the shell breaks in the same exact way lol

[steep ridge]

you're just making this up, they literally emerge from the void lake in sotv 😭

[limpid summit]

The steel city being in lands serene I have never thought about

[sinful nimbus]

I think the Steel City is opposed to all void usage

[limpid summit]

That’s an interesting idea

[olive quartz]

yeah but it presumably cannot do that like whenever it feels like

[silk dirge]

void police

[steep ridge]

hey you might like it!

[silk dirge]

are you part of steel city

[limpid summit]

There is the question of Sharpe but I think we can probably say that’s a proboscis now

[sinful nimbus]

trueeee

[dawn gyro]

correction; tentacles rise from the void to carry lace and hornet out of it

[olive quartz]

presumably the knight was not going around visiting people post dream no more

[fathom hill]

How do we know this

[tawdry flare]

Idk it kinda seems like they’re gatekeepers…

[sinful nimbus]

lowk I think I am literally sharpe

[silk dirge]

you want to know my steel city theory

[fathom hill]

unless you mean like their form with the mask

[silk dirge]

there are 2 steel masters

one of them is called ari gibson

[fathom hill]

little guy with legs and not tendrils

[silk dirge]

the other one is called william pellen

[limpid summit]

Well TK isn’t visiting Quirrel because Quirrel is dead

[silk dirge]

and the staked to service weaver is jack vine

[tawdry flare]

What does Jack Vine even Do

[tawdry flare]

Ah

[limpid summit]

Were Benjin and Crull Ari and Will

[silk dirge]

probably

[fathom hill]

yes

[sinful nimbus]

Nah I don't think they're gatekeeping Zi says Sula was "tarnished" because it "touched the dark" which would be weird if Higher Ups could do that

[steep ridge]

it's all making sense

[dawn gyro]

their bug ocs frfr

[steep ridge]

foul tarnished...

[sinful nimbus]

Benjin and Simoll

[hexed kindle]

sharpe IS void it looks like so most likely they restrict void usage to not end up like the ancient civilisatstion

[tawdry flare]

I thought they were Benji and Simo tbh

[olive quartz]

"the higher ups are hypocrites" is not exactly an out there idea for a team cherry game

[limpid summit]

They may be wait I didn’t think about that

[tawdry flare]

that’s what im sayin

[dawn gyro]

what if they successfully enslaved void /j

wait actually hollup

wait no

wait maybe?

[sinful nimbus]

I guess

[tawdry flare]

Hmmm

[hexed kindle]

nono

[limpid summit]

You’re right but then I doubt they’d promote the idea of void “tarnishing” creatures

Like they’d just have the animosity against Sula handling it without the animosity towards void in general

[hexed kindle]

its most likely just a vessel typa situation sharpe may be part void,growstone and whatever

[limpid summit]

Okay wait actual theory

[dawn gyro]

oohhh

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah if the Steel Masters were doing it it would have to be in private

And frankly that's not as cool because I can't relate to people who actually like the void

[limpid summit]

The Steel Servants are built around Void placed inside an imprint of Growstone, creating a continually evolving mould for a sentient creature

[steep ridge]

harnessing the void as a treat

[limpid summit]

They give it a basic task like “Seer” but the Growstone gives them a measure of autonomy

[fossil ledge]

Is this that big of a stretch considering the Pale King did it with a rune-etched mould and a harness?

[dawn gyro]

wait oh shit ur right

[silk dirge]

hornet would disagree

[hexed kindle]

growstone could constantly grow to seal the void within sharpe

[dawn gyro]

the steel ppl must have made their void creature hybrinds more powerful tho

[tawdry flare]

do you think hornet would praise the steel city for doing this where her father “couldn’t”

[fossil ledge]

To be fair Hornet's opinion on these things is worthless lol

[steep ridge]

I mean those guys died after a bit didn't they, why else would their corpses be strewn about the throne room area

[limpid summit]

Is Growstone solid void

Void is non euclidean

[dawn gyro]

well the growstone grows shell, so I assume not

plus theres a light

[steep ridge]

I think we're going too far here

[fossil ledge]

She praises the Steel City for something?

[hexed kindle]

NONONO we are tweaking now

growstone is a growth of beast shards

[limpid summit]

No one was talking about the realistic theory so I had to go insane

[hexed kindle]

most likely originating from a higher being

[tawdry flare]

No I am doing a speculation

[fossil ledge]

Oh

[silk dirge]

when is tc buffing growstone

[sinful nimbus]

Hide him deep, the despised child, our shame shown in shell of Growstone. He is a wish cast vain, divinity mimicked in form too dark.

[tawdry flare]

Can we keep this I like this it’s funny

[silk dirge]

crawbell actually clears growstone by like orders of magnitude

[limpid summit]

So TRUE

[silk dirge]

and its not funny

[hexed kindle]

this sounds like cut dialouge

[steep ridge]

the 1 good thing craws do

[hexed kindle]

is it

[lapis creek]

it's crazy they could have just made it give infinite shell shards

it's steel soul who even cares

[sinful nimbus]

Its the Eva rune harp but Sharpe-ified

[silk dirge]

ive never played steel soul but its like come on i read what the item does it does not sound that good

[dawn gyro]

crawbell is I think a sort of apartment hornet sets up and the craws pay in obligation, possibly due to craw tradition or law

[lapis creek]

it's pretty good

[steep ridge]

you can get it before act 3, that's the utility

[limpid summit]

You can???

[sinful nimbus]

It being mid is fine because no one is doing that mid quest dawg

[fossil ledge]

Ah, it was a question. I doubt Hornet would praise anyone on something like this, and she doesn't seem to think "controlling the void" is possible, despite everything she witnesses first-hand during the events of Hollow Knight.

I feel like Hornet has unresolved trauma surrounding the Pale King and Hallownest which is kind of messing with her judgement and whatnot

[limpid summit]

Don’t you need to beat vrawfather

[silk dirge]

the steel soul quest is act 2

[dawn gyro]

she s talking abt the growstone

[hexed kindle]

the steel city rulers are litreally evil and "do not desire order" dawg please read my theory the long one

[silk dirge]

anyways it would work well for steel soul if you didnt use up shell shards when dying

[dawn gyro]

a world of chaos is not inherently evil tho

[sinful nimbus]

Me looking for a faction that isn't evil and doesn't take interest in dead kingdoms

[fossil ledge]

Although this is true, a chaotic world by Hollow Knight standards doesn't paint a pretty picture for the average bug

[silk dirge]

replenishing all tools when dying without using shell shards would be the perfect system imo

maybe nerf tools a bit if needed

[sinful nimbus]

And just remove shellshards you gained before death

[dawn gyro]

thats true

[sinful nimbus]

2 years of polish and they didn't think of ts 😭

At least you can't cheese Lace 1 with walljump

[limpid summit]

Ohh

[fossil ledge]

Why would you cheese Lace 1 unless you're doing a speedrun?

[silk dirge]

is tc going to respond to my bug report about first sinner not acting like a memory fight despite it literally being one 💔

make your predictions

[fathom hill]

whos out there cheesing lace 1 dawg

[steep ridge]

you'd never get wall jump before lace 1 in a speedrun

[dawn gyro]

hallucination fight >

[limpid summit]

No way in heck

[hexed kindle]

"Zi must watch, record... and wait... Always she is true to her function... Ore-bound... To duty.
Watch long... Record clear... Remember...
Bound by purpose...
Bound by ore...
Forever... ..." i dunno man seems kinda evil to me

[fathom hill]

no

i mean

prolly not

[silk dirge]

me when the

[fathom hill]

they wont even tell you that the bug report is not for asks prolly

[dawn gyro]

wait... 'bound by ore' (ore being steel in this case obv) I THINK THE STEEL GUYS ACTUALLY MANAGED TO MAKE SERVANTS OUT OF VOID

[silk dirge]

i mean it seems like a fair oversight to report

[steep ridge]

can't believe team cherry hates their fans

[silk dirge]

considering the wiki does say this

[fossil ledge]

It's also confirmed by opening inventory during the fight. The menu literally tells you it's a memory lol

[fathom hill]

theyll be looking at you like the dexter meme

[hexed kindle]

"Hope!.. Pale It... For a vassal who defies the Masters?... You give Zi a thought, complex..."

[silk dirge]

how does it look like

[hexed kindle]

sounds like they evil

[fathom hill]

they know you dont believe its a bug but cant prove it

[hexed kindle]

i doubt the steel city is dead

they arent

[sinful nimbus]

I didn't say that

[dawn gyro]

ok tru, that or the vassals specifically are like slaves

[limpid summit]

Uhh caravan?

Sort of

[sinful nimbus]

Pharloom is for all intents and purposes a dead kingdom until Hornet saves it

[dawn gyro]

even then it becomes only half-dead then bcs corpses are also haunted

heck look at the choral chambers

that place is ABSOLUTELY DEAD until GMS haunts the corpses

[hexed kindle]

Its a kingdom in chaos and there are multiple settlements its dying but not dead

[fathom hill]

Im not sure of this

if you believe kingdoms to be the people or the power on top that is

[hexed kindle]

if pharloom was dead there would be WAY less npcs

[fathom hill]

The game reiterates a lot of times how pilgrims just keep getting into the citadel, so lack of people is not a symptom

and as someone said there are settlements still

[fathom hill]

The citadel though, before gms haunts them to get to hornet, its full of bodies

[sinful nimbus]

"This kingdom is dead, or very nearly"

[dawn gyro]

wait I never realized tyhis menu popup existed what

[lapis creek]

there is literally 1 (one) tiny settlement on the outskirts of the area that exists without hornet's help

[fathom hill]

except the vaults maybe

[hexed kindle]

show a source

[sinful nimbus]

Also Pharloom doesn't feel alive

[hexed kindle]

or screenshot

something

[dawn gyro]

THATS LITERALLY WHAT I JUST SAID

[sinful nimbus]

Its Hornets dialogue with Second Sentinel you can google it

[lapis creek]

it depends on her entirely for resources and is completely destroyed within hours

[silk dirge]

is this first sinner

[fossil ledge]

Yes

[silk dirge]

ok yeah thats a big oversight then lol

[fathom hill]

well i feel like it is

[fossil ledge]

Picture is not mine btw, it's from a wiki editor called esau

[silk dirge]

that you dont replenish tools

[hexed kindle]

It can still be saved though its not dead its dying or in chaos

[silk dirge]

i wish i had that image to attach to the bug report

[hexed kindle]

litreally says in the trailer

hallownest is DEAD

and crumbling

[lapis creek]

is that before or after madness of the pilgrims

[hexed kindle]

im going bed

[fathom hill]

yah theres a distinction made of what hallownest is

quite literally just dust and rock

and how pharloom has people still in it

the systems have collapsed mostly by the death of the conductors, but the people can rebuild

as of shermas dialogue

[hexed kindle]

also after act 3 enimies will presumably remain alive

[sinful nimbus]

Hallownest can also rebuild

[dawn gyro]

pharloom is also more colorful and vibrant

[lapis creek]

what are they rebuilding

[sinful nimbus]

Hallownest still has people living in it dawg 💔

[lapis creek]

greymoor?

[fathom hill]

Prolly something better than whatever the citadel was

[dawn gyro]

hallownest is kind of a blank canvas for whatevah the hell a traveller wants after the events of hollow knight

[fathom hill]

communism

[sinful nimbus]

So is Pharloom

[fathom hill]

who

elderbug

[hexed kindle]

Hallownest has a population of like 10 dawg they cannot rebuild

[fathom hill]

sly

[sinful nimbus]

[[NPCs (Hollow KNight)]]

[oak meadow]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/NPCs_(Hollow_KNight)?action=edit&redlink=1

[hexed kindle]

ts feels dumb

[fathom hill]

like what, 5 people?

[lapis creek]

holy mantis republic

[sinful nimbus]

Minor spelling error...

[dawn gyro]

only in dirtmouth, the very top part. and the ppl that live underneath are few and far between

[dawn gyro]

pharloom still has established communities after act 3

[sinful nimbus]

Anyway Hallownest has more than 5 people living in it and also more people can visit later

[silk dirge]

i mean pharloom has more of a chance than hallownest will

[lapis creek]

low bar

[fathom hill]

hallownest is dead, its dust, nothing of the og kingdom is left except the infraestructure

[silk dirge]

the pilgrim spawnpoint didnt get destroyed

[sinful nimbus]

Its possible for people in Hallownest and Pharloom to build something new this is kinda the point

[fathom hill]

pharloom has its people still, given the haunting is fairly recent generation wise

[lapis creek]

i wouldnt say thats the point in hallownest but yeah it's possible

[silk dirge]

how funny would it be if pilgrims still are arriving post act 3

https://tenor.com/view/troy-community-room-fire-pizza-gif-5612111

[fathom hill]

the haunting and the later void induced haunting wasnt a long enough problem to make absolutely everything collapse in contrast to hallownest

[sinful nimbus]

The point of HK is dismantling the stasis so change can happen

[fathom hill]

I almost did, but hornet saved them so yknow

[silk dirge]

i mean for me it felt more like letting the kingdom rest

[fathom hill]

rebuilding its possible for pharloom, for hallownest that boat has long sailed

[dawn gyro]

I mean theres stil a whole ass empty citadel to populate

[silk dirge]

like putting an end to all the suffering whether or not something will happen there in the future

[fathom hill]

thats what separates a dead kingdom from another imo

[sinful nimbus]

Proof

[fathom hill]

Look as I say this and then tc just puts grim troupe in there

[lapis creek]

the point of hk is dismantling the stasis and accepting an end, whether a new beginning can happen afterwards is not really something the game concerns itself with too much

[fathom hill]

fuck my life

[hexed kindle]

What kingdoms does grimm come to

[silk dirge]

i think silksong is trying to say tho that pharloom will rebuild as opposed to hallownest which is much more ambiguous

[sinful nimbus]

Hallownest is dead yes that doesn't stop people from building something there

[lapis creek]

i guess it follows logically that people can come build things there though

[silk dirge]

hornet tells sherma it will be up to him and other pilgrims to rebuild pharloom

[dawn gyro]

it would take a very determined team of dedicated travellers who just so happen to stumble upon hallownest

[silk dirge]

i guess for me hallownest is a blank slate where pharloom is like not blank

[sinful nimbus]

So what

[fossil ledge]

I feel like the City of Tears can still be populated again by travellers like Lemm after the Radiance's defeat, as most of the infrastructure is still there and functional, just requiring bugpower

[dawn gyro]

literally like a canvas omg its like I said this alr wow

[hexed kindle]

dawg hallownest is DEAD

[sinful nimbus]

All civilizations require a dedicated group of people OR a god to create a civilization neither of which are out of the picture

[unique canopy]

There's still plenty of still-living non-infected people in the ruins of Hallownest who can rebuild a new society, even if "The Kingdom of the White Wyrm" is forever dead

[dawn gyro]

ok im going to eat dinner since ppl are basically just saying the same stuff im saying

[fathom hill]

again, would you consider a kingdom its people, or the power above

[lapis creek]

it's not like that people have gone to their deaths in search of riches down there

[fathom hill]

or even the organization?

[sinful nimbus]

Hallownest has people in it and people can move there

Idk what the point is

[fathom hill]

hallownest has none of that currently

[lapis creek]

nobody would ever be interested in hallownest

[fathom hill]

who is there that is not infected

[lapis creek]

thats not the whole point of the first hour of the game or anything

[hexed kindle]

if ur impliying a return to hallownest dlc istg

[dawn gyro]

hallownest the kingdom is dead, the area can be repopulated but hallownest is gone bro

[fossil ledge]

Plenty of bugs were interested in Hallownest, and with the Infection gone the hazards are much fewer

[sinful nimbus]

Play the game

[silk dirge]

i wonder if pharloom even draws pilgrims anymore after act 3

bc the divine heart being gms is gone

[fathom hill]

the people on dirtmouth make a disntinction between themselves and the ruins above

[silk dirge]

pilgrim spawnpoint dlc 🙏

[sinful nimbus]

If you don't think HK has non-infected residents you haven't played the game

[fathom hill]

[silk dirge]

where are they coming from

[unique canopy]

Are we doing another "there are no survivors in this area except for all the survivors we literally see in the game" argument?

[fathom hill]

Fabled z axis

[dawn gyro]

mantises, dirtmout, nailmasters, and possibly the (non-enemy) guys in the colloseum

[hexed kindle]

nearly as delusional as quirrel game fans

[fathom hill]

mantises are totally separated, nailmasters are too separated

the colloseum are quite literally at kingdoms edge

[sinful nimbus]

Literally nothing stops people from deciding to build stuff in what was once Hallownest idk why this is a discussion

[silk dirge]

i mean the thing is theres also potential for the old hearts to come back

[fathom hill]

and the people of dirtmouth aight

20 people?

[sinful nimbus]

Obviously the former civilization won't come back that's not the point

[silk dirge]

verdania we see already

[sinful nimbus]

Pharloom's civilization will also be different

[silk dirge]

skarr might get a new queen idk

[dawn gyro]

I said it CAN be given the amount of space and if enough Bugs DID come who were willing it would be possible to make new civilizations there, not hakllownest tho

[fathom hill]

compare that with the people that we see in pharloom

[hexed kindle]

yh

[dawn gyro]

depends on the process they use

[silk dirge]

boomerang mottled skarr my queen