sk-lore

[fathom hill]

I'm sorry I'm being mean

[visual glacier]

It’s the best place to discuss cut content

[olive quartz]

it only takes over GMS after hornet has severely weakened her

[abstract rivet]

what if the parasite met void though

[vestal swan]

Yes that is the point, it's not looking for something stronger

[rough ingot]

NOTHING GOOD

[visual glacier]

It’d get angry

[abstract rivet]

would the parasite get fucked

[fathom hill]

get eaten prolly

[ember river]

Greyroot seems to use it as a way to extend her own life

[olive quartz]

also the parasite is like. demonstrably capable of taking over GMS. we see it do that

[fathom hill]

or idk

[fossil ledge]

That's not how its process works. The process we see is probably identical to Hornet's, only that instead of her it was random pilgrims, who actually died when injected by Greyroot instead of surviving because Hornet has wyrm heritage

[hollow ingot]

void stuff would probably happen

[visual glacier]

After she is weakened

[fathom hill]

we don't really know what the parasite is or their final form or whatever

[olive quartz]

...then why does it only come out when hornet finally defeats a real actual god?

[abstract rivet]

Why don’t we mix parasite and void AND lifeblood

[vestal swan]

Greyroot was not looking for something else strong to eat, she tried to use hornet and failed. She found the new opportunity when GMS was about to die

[ember river]

Because Hornet is also weakened

[visual glacier]

Void and Plasmium don’t mix

[fathom hill]

But since it bound both a demigod and a god prolly pretty strong

[visual glacier]

It’s like oil and water

[rough ingot]

after gms

[ember river]

Void and everything tends to end with just void

[olive quartz]

? you can do gms hitless, no evidence fighting gms inherently weakens hornet

[rough ingot]

basically tea

[abstract rivet]

is there really an hint to an lifeblood higher being or

[visual glacier]

Did you ever notice none of the Plasmium enemies or nearby pilgrims get black threaded?

[vestal swan]

Greyroot def hit HB status after twisted child

[olive quartz]

....then why doesn't the parasite jump onto the first enemy we find

[limpid summit]

Is Greyroot in the GOAT discussion

[vestal swan]

There's a creature that shows up where it shows up twice in the first game but it's not really certain what relationship it has with the substance

[rough ingot]

really? Maybe thats why abyss room exists

[limpid summit]

Hornet loses focus because she has to bind GMS and the bud takes the opportunity to consume both

[fathom hill]

abyss creature is closest

[limpid summit]

Why doesn’t the bud consume her when she binds a crest or something? Idk

[vestal swan]

Because that would be really boring for the game

[rough ingot]

also the why can the knight use ligeblood

[fossil ledge]

Besides the Abyss Creature, also Hornet's comment on it being similar to the Infection

[limpid summit]

Probably doesn’t take as much effort

[abstract rivet]

where does it show

in the first game

[fathom hill]

But we really don't know much abt them

[limpid summit]

In the lifeblood core abyss dream room, and Godhome (uninvited)

[visual glacier]

Lifeblood core and Godhome

[fossil ledge]

Abyss Lifeblood Core room and in the Lifeblood room in Godhome

[ember river]

The black threads aren't the void trying to possess things, it's an unholy combination of GMS's haunting and her stubbornness in the face of guaranteed erasure

[vestal swan]

Lifeblood room in abyss iirc and godhomes basement

[olive quartz]

she doesn't have the opportunity to bind gms, there is no bind prompt. the parasite takes control immediately after hornet lands the final blow

[visual glacier]

Wdym uninvited

Wouldn’t godseeker want it there

It has its own room

[abstract rivet]

Damn plasmium higher being would be nice to see

[hollow ingot]

it's implied that the parasite is the same species as Greyroot If I'm not mistaken

[abstract rivet]

actually no it wouldnt fuck that

[vestal swan]

Godseeker makes no mention of it and it does not get a statue, it's presence is either unnoticed or she just doesn't care

[visual glacier]

It has its own room

[fossil ledge]

So does Zote lol

[ornate pier]

Thes is why you will kills the plasmium monster in pharloom bay dlc coming tommorow

[olive quartz]

if TC wanted to convey that the parasite got out because hornet was binding GMS, wouldn't they have had you start binding gms and then get interrupted by the parasite?

[ember river]

I like to think Lifeblood is like the miasma of a dead/forgotten god and that creature we see is just its afterimage

[rough ingot]

and radiance and knight

[visual glacier]

She doesn’t mention the nightmare’s heart either

[fossil ledge]

These are intentional

[vestal swan]

Lifeblood or the beast itself is making that room and the door that opens with lifeblood, same for the in the abyss, the door did not exist in the birthplace memory so it was not sealed in the abyss by an outside source

[visual glacier]

She doesn’t mention the nightmare’s heart either

[fossil ledge]

True, but we see it in the NKG fight

[ember river]

It is present in NKG's fight however

[fossil ledge]

Jinx!

[visual glacier]

So

[abstract rivet]

I wonder when will the first DLC get announced because there are alot of lore inconsistencies in this game

[fathom hill]

I mean yah

[visual glacier]

Few months at least

[tepid mountain]

DLC will probably not fix this.

[fathom hill]

but theres a disctinction made by how greyroot refers to the baby

[ember river]

I mean, most of the lore is kepy pretty vague

[rough ingot]

Right

[abstract rivet]

its pretty kept vague on purpose so they can expand on it in the future

[vestal swan]

The first game had vague lore, this game has inconsistent lore

[rough ingot]

inconsistent eith itself or?

[ember river]

Hopefully

[olive quartz]

example of inconsistency?

[vestal swan]

Yes also the bad retcons

[fathom hill]

lifeblood if i had to guess

[ember river]

Lifeblood was expanded upon

[abstract rivet]

How hornet talks about verdania being lost to an pale being baffles me because it was the citadel that destroyed verdania, theres some mistakes here

[ornate pier]

Hows it inconsistetn

[fathom hill]

only direct example i can think of

[rough ingot]

we need lifeblood expansion with if its higherbeing or nah

[cedar skiff]

the humble old hearts dlc

[ember river]

She says the pale being and the system built to keep her asleep

[vestal swan]

Hornets behavior where she seems to be trying to help everybody except people in the slab and the idiot playing with lifeblood and then she mocks him for messing with it

[fathom hill]

We talk abt this eveyr other day or so but lifeblood in ss is inconsistent

[hollow ingot]

if it's a dead/forgotten god, why is it all over the place then? Gods tend to take hold of/stay in one place/kingdom at a time. Pale King and Hollownest, GMS with Pharloom.

I think it's more likely the "Lifeblood creature" is something that just had WAY to much of the stuff to drink. We've seen in Silksong the effects lifeblood has on bugs when they ingest enough of it.

[fathom hill]

given how she seems to both know what the effects of lifeblood are and not

[ember river]

I read it as her claiming the fall was consequence of the Pale Being existing and doing its thing, and how it naturally affects the world around

[abstract rivet]

this is such a hornet thing to do tbh

[ember river]

Even if there's no intention

[fossil ledge]

I doubt it tbh. It seems to be at peace and has a similar look to the rest of the room

[fathom hill]

Fuck i need to have these in hand but theres some weird things in the dialogue

[rough ingot]

stabs herself with it

[ornate pier]

I mean to me it seems like ingame she's only vaguely familiar with it

[cedar skiff]

tbh anything to do with gms causing something is likely just the consequences of the cage around her rather than her outright doing it herself

[ember river]

Well it is in godhome and the abyss door transports the Knight to a dream realm

[vestal swan]

Dead things don't have power like that

[fathom hill]

And she seems to be, but then why does she mention that in her home they had flourishing lifeblood?

[vestal swan]

Dead things that we see show up as ghosts are just copies and leftovers

[rough ingot]

ghost!

[fathom hill]

she mentions similar aberrations but then doesnt mind if these two junkies are ionjecting it into the flora and fauna

[vestal swan]

TK is not an actual ghost

[fathom hill]

So were the aberrations different, werent they?

[ember river]

Maybe she thought at first that Zylotol actually knew what he was doing and the research was legitimate

[rough ingot]

or are they? A dead corpse, being pupetted by a shade of sorts, a shade is a ghost with inverted colors, prove me wrong

[vestal swan]

She knew he didn't know what he was doing because he called it by the wrong name and she calls it by the right name in our journal

[fathom hill]

Hornet does permit herself to inject, cuz she knows she can take it by her own strong caparace

[fossil ledge]

Given what she says about the Pale King I doubt it lol

[rough ingot]

and knight cant overdose

[cedar skiff]

i dont think gms directly fought any of the old hearts. the weavers and later the citadel under their rule is likely responsible for felling all of them

[limpid summit]

Khann says “alone against the pale light” but I think he’s the only old heart to directly allude to falling to GMS

[ornate pier]

I assume she's seen the cocoons and shit but never really interacted with them much
And with the abberations and everything it's because she witnesses it for herself in silksong anyway?
Thats what i think

[tepid mountain]

Zylotol outright denies her claim that plasmium exists elsewhere, she knows he’s full of shit.

[limpid summit]

Nyleth went to sleep in the Conductor era for sure

[abstract rivet]

hornet is just stupid

[cedar skiff]

i know in his dialogue khann refers to resisting the pale light (paraphrased), for example, and hornet refers to the verdania tragedy as consequence of being caught between a being pale )also paraphrased)

[ember river]

Technically they are puppeteered corpses in a way but that's the whole thing of the Vessel species

Neither Beast, nor bug, nor god and all that

[ornate pier]

Also i assume lifeblood was outlawed before hornet's birth or shortly after so other than seeing the cocoons she would've mostly probably just heard offhand mentions abt it
Which she wouldnt really remember all that well

[vestal swan]

Karak had control of what is probably now the citadel before they showed up, The citadel can't really fight them before they are conquered.
Also the green prince agrees with hornets talk about the pale being being the problem doesn't he?
That's two out of four
They made peace with nyleth because they didn't want to fuck with her and lose.
Karmelita secluded off an entire area and hid from the citadel but she was still run out of town so to speak

[main crane]

You know. There were hints in Hollow Knight as well about how Ominous the Lifeblood actually is. What with the encounter with the Abyss Creature and how mysterious and ominous it looks and Pale King himself forbidding it

But Silksong straight up expands on this by revealing just how terrifying it can be after what it did to Zylotol or what happened to the areas he injected with Lifeblood

I wonder if we're ever going to delve deeper into Lifeblood and what it really is or it's just going to remain an unknown, eldritch force

[fathom hill]

"In my home caves, when once this substance was allowed to flourish, I saw similar aberrations."

[ornate pier]

Ah

[fathom hill]

So like why does Hornet do that

[ember river]

Again, Verdania is stated, by hornet, in that VERY SAME SENTENCE, to have fallen to the Pale Being and the system to keep her asleep

[hardy inlet]

something i just realised is how the fuck was gms born

[sinful nimbus]

Source on the Karak thing

[abstract rivet]

We dont know

[cedar skiff]

where from is the implication that what is now the citadel was ever under karaka

[ember river]

The mere existence of such a being jeopardizes every surrounding civilization

[ornate pier]

Actually i mightve been thinking the oipposite? she seems to be familiar with it the whole time?

[sinful nimbus]

The Verdania dialogue is nonsense we can ignore it right

[vestal swan]

Somebody said they ruled half the region I don't remember what character

[ornate pier]

Though it would be confusing why shre would take up his quest then

[sinful nimbus]

That doesn't say about where they ruled

[hollow ingot]

has it been theorized yet that maybe the creature itself is a bug from the ancient civilization who just drank to much of the stuff.

the lifeblood creature has a similar aesthetic to the rest of the statues we see throughout Hollow Knight. And we already know that the bugs of the Abyss from Hollow Nest travelled out of that area in particular, and at one point we're roaming around Hollow Nest.

Plus it's implied Lifeblood itself is pretty old, I wouldn't be suprized if it was around during the same period the Ancient civilization was still around.

[abstract rivet]

Higher Beings birth is borderline black magic

[hardy inlet]

plasmium is lifeblood, which was banned by the pale king due to... wormways act 3

[ornate pier]

Ik

[ember river]

Kinda like how the Pale King messing around destroyed the Hive despite them being isolationists and playing no part on either side

[vestal swan]

If they ruled half the region and now they rule a tiny little pillar, by that logic their land has now been taken over and reused.
They can't fight the citadel if the citadel wasn't built on their land yet?

[rough ingot]

example?

[hardy inlet]

and hornet is ancient af so

[fathom hill]

Yeah exactly

She knows what lifeblood is and can do

[sinful nimbus]

??

[fathom hill]

but at the same time she doesnt

[hardy inlet]

and still overdoses 👍

[rough ingot]

Yea lol

[vestal swan]

I don't get what's confusing about what I just said

[fathom hill]

She says even she has limits, and she says its alluring

[cedar skiff]

i think the weavers felled khann before the citadel was put into place

[main crane]

Guys

[sinful nimbus]

Do you think their border was a straight line down the middle of Pharloom or something

[rough ingot]

hes not dead tho

[abstract rivet]

thats the thing i have none because we have no fuckin clue

[fathom hill]

Take that as you will but im sure Hornet doesnt really shame the use of it, its a tool like any other right?

[hardy inlet]

gms constructed the citadel right
who did she find to construct it, the haunting?

[fathom hill]

But something to not, Hornet has interesting dialogue if you do the task in act 3

[rough ingot]

alright i agree now

[fossil ledge]

It doesn't really look like any of the giant fossilised bugs though. It appears either similar to those tablets the king uses, or more to the lifeblood vines in the whole room

[ornate pier]

No i think it's consistent that she does but now we don't really know why she would accept his quest

[sinful nimbus]

The Citadel was constructed by the weavers to imprison her

[fathom hill]

She does warn zylotol to an extent

[limpid summit]

Hornet’s “caught beneath a being pale” could feasibly refer to GMS being hidden behind every action to the citadel because it wasn’t GMS who put his lovers soul in the cogwork it was the Architects
But Khann seems very direct

[hardy inlet]

HUH

[fathom hill]

So it could mean more of a character arc, given how by this point Hornet does care more abt pharloom than in act 1-2

[ornate pier]

In a way she IS helping him but in a way she's not

[ornate pier]

Yes bro

[limpid summit]

Yep mask maker says the Weavers created the Citadel to trap GMS

[fossil ledge]

What do you mean with this, though?

[vestal swan]

It doesn't have to be a straight line down the middle, but if you think their territory only exists backwards in the z axis that's just weird. It certainly can't be half of pharloom if it goes in the other direction either

[cedar skiff]

my crackpot theory: right above coral tower you find the memory crystals in what seems to be a place made by the weavers. they used the memory crystal to shut off the water supply to coral tower, thus drying them out. the karaka werent ever dead or felled in combat, they were just dried out and crumbled like watcher at the edge after hornet actually kills khann.

[fathom hill]

maybe in act 1-2 she wouldnt care less if pharloom gets overtaken by lifeblood, but that opinion shifts

[vestal swan]

PK did not do that

[rough ingot]

vespa shut herslef in

[unique canopy]

The "inconsistencies" with Hornet's character can be chalked up to a combination of starting off as an anti-hero, experiencing character growth through the game, but not wanting to lock the player out of content for character development reasons. So for example with the lifeblood, you can say the "canon" method is that she does that quest early on in act 1 when she's still scraping for every bit of power and every advantage she can get, when later in act 2 she starts thinking about the effect her actions are having on the people as a whole.

[ember river]

That the presence of a higher being disrupts surrounding civilizations even if the higher being itself doesn't really care about them all that much

[limpid summit]

I like this theory and I was always searching for justification that Karak was dried out

[hollow ingot]

I don't think so? I'm pretty sure he died out just over time. If Khann was really that big of a deal for the weavers to just "kill him off" why didn't they also wipe out Carmalita and the entire Ant tribe at the same time.

[ember river]

The dynamics around that higher being will reach them sooner or later

[limpid summit]

That’s pretty good

[fathom hill]

I was searching the exact dialogue that is contradictory

There is an echo also of other infections I have witnessed. I wonder at the meaning of it all... or if I am perhaps imagining similarities where there are none.

Like wym hornet??

[edgy nebula]

this seems pretty likely, though id say instead they diverted the natural lava on mt. Fay, freezing the water

[vestal swan]

This character growth explanation doesn't really work when it can happen in any act of the game

[fathom hill]

its literally the same substance

[rough ingot]

minus unn and the shade lord and white lady i guess too

[fossil ledge]

I mean, Radiance is the cause of the shut-in and the reason why the Hive was taken over. Vespa also apparently grew too big to leave and died at some point with no heirs, leaving the Hive ripe for a takover by Radiance

[ember river]

In Verdania's case, the Citadel wanted to keep GMS asleep and they were destroyed by that need, directly tied to the Pale Being. I think that's what Hornet means in that phrase

[cedar skiff]

khann was said to have had large control over pharloom, jt would be reasonable for the weavers to want to get rid of him if they plan to establish a kingdom of their own

[sinful nimbus]

It legit could've just been something like this

[fathom hill]

wym imagining similarities

[lone folio]

This is confirming the relation between radiances infection and lifeblood

[fathom hill]

I do believe this

To an extent

[sinful nimbus]

There isn't any reason to assume the Karaks ruled over where the Citadel was during its construction

[rough ingot]

radiance mutated lifeblood for infection

it looks similar and distorts its victims

[lone folio]

No

[vestal swan]

But then the bottom down there would have coral etc? Makes a lot more sense to think it was built over by the citadel then simply grown over by plants and not there anymore

[rough ingot]

Possibly

[fathom hill]

Not possible since the aberrations in pharloom have nothing to do with an infection

[unique canopy]

I literally addressed that in the comment you're replying to. It's for gameplay reasons only, not wanting to for example make that wish locked off later in the game because Hornet's character development happened, when players would find it cheap and annoying.

[ember river]

The shade lord exists in the void and there isn't much civilization down there anymore

Unn is the GOAT

And the White Lady did cause a variety of changes both big and small, like claiming half of Greenpath as her personal retire or, you know, birthing the vessels

[fathom hill]

and she says they are similar aberrations

[ornate pier]

Well here she's probably talking about the radiance's infenction, not saying thing is the same as same thing

[fathom hill]

so im guessing its just the same effect it gives

[fathom hill]

Even more reason id say

[rough ingot]

Unn’s waning power is beyond the godseekers to save, they say it themselves

[ember river]

The White Lady has been pretty influential, even in more subtle ways

[sinful nimbus]

Why would all their territory be coralified

[cedar skiff]

tbh it just really stuck out to me that khann was said to be defeated somehow but he wasn’t actually dead, just dried out. what better way for the weavers to take on a formidable for than to just fucking remove the access to what is essentially their life force

[vestal swan]

It can't be gameplay and inconsistent character development, they wouldn't do that on purpose
Also the inconsistency with lifeblood happens the first time she talks to the guy, and then she mocks him afterwards later in the story. That's not growth

[cedar skiff]

if they had actually lost a battle theyd be dust

[fathom hill]

If you saw a pre infection with lifeblood back at your home, why not disclose this ever

[rough ingot]

sure she took a part of greenpath

[vestal swan]

Because we see some of the coral plants(?) and creatures persist after the river dries up

[hollow ingot]

ok if the weavers REALLY were the reason, then why is Khann's resting place at the base of the coral tower, with all of his army around him.

Did the weavers kill him in one massive battle, then decide to set him up all nice and everything lol

[fathom hill]

Like she saw both infections in her lifetime and wouldnt say a thing abt it?

[ember river]

Even when her potential peaked she seems pretty chill, but the infection did cause a big hit on her followers (the PK as well)

[fathom hill]

its weird, its a dissonance with how she acts and what she seems to know

[rough ingot]

the godseekers say it in unn’s room

[ember river]

Khann is not dead

[fathom hill]

Unless its again something to do with her own character act

[ember river]

I am not arguing against you, read the damn point

[fathom hill]

She is not fond of pharloom before act 3, so why would she disclose this threat?

[sinful nimbus]

That doesn't answer the question

[cedar skiff]

the point is that they shut off the water supply which caused them to simply dry out rather than be killed in a giant battle

[fathom hill]

im using that word a lot

[vestal swan]

Then mocks him for playing with it after she knows he doesn't know what it is because he calls it by the wrong name and, well obviously observing what he's doing

[fathom hill]

nevermidn

[hollow ingot]

he looks pretty fucking dead to me

[sinful nimbus]

Half of Pharloom isn't coralified so we can deduce the coral was exclusive to what was once Goral Gorge

[rough ingot]

yea sryy

[fathom hill]

I mean "wrong name"

[ember river]

He actually dies and returns to the coral when you beat his memory, like WatE and the karak soldiers within the memory

[fathom hill]

lifeblood is just how her culture calls it

[vestal swan]

Sleeping

[fathom hill]

But again, the dialogue shifts a bit in act 3

[vestal swan]

I mean there's language barriers and then there's hearing a mad scientist call it by the wrong name and then say it's going to give him eternal life or something

[ember river]

He is actually in a hybernating state, unlike the dead soldiers around him, which are actually dead and are destroyed like statues (and the judge corpse)

[fathom hill]

Wait what dialogue is that

[cedar skiff]

watcher at the edge is in a similar position as khann and when we defeat it we see that the karaka are only actually dead when they turn to dust

[hollow ingot]

so his not dead, his just sleeping?

[fathom hill]

this im guessing confirms a bit that is the different hornet through the acts

[ember river]

Hybernating

[vestal swan]

I think it's the hunter journal for the big ceiling blob creature? Or maybe the assistant body?

[unique canopy]

She doesn't mock Zylotol, she just warns him of the potential risks. She mocks Zango but he's the one that died carelessly.

[hollow ingot]

bugs don't hybernate

[fathom hill]

But this also can be interpreted as she quite literally seeing how zylotol is almost lost

[hollow ingot]

but whatever

[lethal burrow]

The four Horsemen of stupid non-lore related hornet morality arguments people have

slab fly racism
Green Prince murder
karmalita murder
lifeblood help

[rough ingot]

hes not really a bug

[vestal swan]

They also don't eat blue jelly and turn into giant monsters, this isnt IRL

[ember river]

Bugs, also can't cast magic

[lethal burrow]

They also don't control coral last time I checked

[vestal swan]

They're basically bugs

[rough ingot]

weavers can cuz of gms, i guess all higher beings have their own magic

[hollow ingot]

dude, every bug in the Hollow Knight universe looks nothing like irl bugs. it's a video game.

[fathom hill]

all hunter journal abt lifeblood

[ember river]

It's mainly manipulating energy in one way or another most of the time

Soul is the main one

[fathom hill]

all.. 4 of them at least

[rough ingot]

Correct, despite the knight's horns looking like mandibles on nosk

[ember river]

But Essence and Void can be used as well

[fathom hill]

other dialogue is with zylotol

[rough ingot]

higher being trend

[vestal swan]

Those are all lore related

[rough ingot]

radiance and shade lord

[cedar skiff]

not really

[lethal burrow]

they're grumbler related at best

[cedar skiff]

two of these are gameplay mechanics

the first one is characterisation

and im not sure what the last one is referring to So

[fathom hill]

5 topics spin the wheel

[edgy nebula]

lace age discussion:

[ember river]

Yeah

[cedar skiff]

ok that one is sorta lore relevant

[vestal swan]

No?

[lethal burrow]

harrah retcon

[tepid mountain]

That’s not Hornet morality related.

[fathom hill]

guy quotes himself

[rough ingot]

and Unn’s is acid, pk is buzzsaws (actually its giving thought), and lifeblood creature is, you know

[fathom hill]

skull emoji

[hollow ingot]

just saying, more realistic for him to be sleeping then hybernating

[cedar skiff]

the fact that you can murder one of the 4 hearts for no reason comes from the gameplay mechanic of allowing the player a choice if they are stuck on one boss. the in universe consequences of that had to be winged because its a gameplay mechanic. much like the shade

[vestal swan]

Oh I brought this up last night but nobody seemed to want to talk about it, the essence manipulating gods have it really fucking easy

[fathom hill]

Unless you mention a certain pairing

[rough ingot]

shade is a canon thing,the knight on a bench isnt

[vestal swan]

Comes from a gameplay mechanic does not mean it cannot be explained well, they did not explain it well

[hollow ingot]

she's old.

GG's guys, I solved the mystery

[rough ingot]

yea, like tadiance creating infection to cause ppl to remember and worship her

[cedar skiff]

why hornet killed karmelita or green prince for fun is irrelevant to the lore

[vestal swan]

No it's not

[cedar skiff]

how is it relevant

do let me in on this

[vestal swan]

Why the fuck did the main character pointlessly kill somebody!?

[fathom hill]

Coming back to the non flower pantheon ending

void eats soul, could it eat essence?

[fathom hill]

training

[rough ingot]

It did in the DNm ending, radiance goes into void

[vestal swan]

You not thinking it's important does not mean it's not important to the lore

[unique canopy]

Not everything is going to have ludonarrative harmony, and you shouldn't need every game to pull an Undertale or OneShot to recognize that some things are just the choices of you, the player.

[sinful nimbus]

Oooooh Hornet slander

[fathom hill]

oh fuck

[rough ingot]

honestly true

[vestal swan]

The player does not exist in the universe

[sinful nimbus]

Ofc TC weren't thinking about this but that doesn't change the fact that right now Hornet is an evil mf which is bad writing

[rough ingot]

solstace and pacifist every day

[edgy nebula]

every time someone says something bad about hornet starpengu powers up

[foggy fractal]

but can she beat goku ?

[fathom hill]

But some actions are carried out by the player

[rough ingot]

No not againnnb

[fathom hill]

Stuff that maybe hornet wouldnt do

[sinful nimbus]

But she does

[vestal swan]

Nothing that hornet does is something that hornet wouldn't do

[fathom hill]

like how Hornet says that she will leave the prince alone but she doesnt

[edgy nebula]

two more slabfly racism discussions and she can go super saiyan

[rough ingot]

needolin or bind

[unique canopy]

Irrelevant. It's still a video game, and there has to be some understanding that there will be contrivances by virtue of it being a video game.

[fathom hill]

Not these

[sinful nimbus]

Sure but this contrivance is canon

[lethal burrow]

The vine baby dared her to

[unique canopy]

Hornet canonically would not be stupid enough to jump into a pot of boiling mossberry stew just for shits and giggles, just because I did.

[fathom hill]

Like how she goes out of her way to beat gms with the curse

[abstract rivet]

this aint a 4th wall breaking game brotato

[vestal swan]

Pointlessly killing a character is not something that's going to be written off as gameplay, respawn, a mechanic that is necessary for the game to be enjoyable yes sure.

[rough ingot]

oops i did that too

[vestal swan]

Do you see the difference here

[fathom hill]

Like how she says she wont free the green prince in the cell and does it anyways

[rough ingot]

void on ur save file

[vestal swan]

The what lol

[fathom hill]

Those are actions that differentiate you and Hornets own will

[unique canopy]

If it was pointless then why did you, the player, do that?

[abstract rivet]

cosmetic effect frfr

[cedar skiff]

yeah why would the knight let zote get eaten by the vengefly

thats so fucking evil

[fathom hill]

Now, how does that translate to the canon? thats what we are discussing

[rough ingot]

cuz zote is annoying

[vestal swan]

I the player did not do that

[abstract rivet]

Why the fuck did Chara make us do ts

[rough ingot]

just blame chara now

[unique canopy]

Then neither did Hornet so the argument is pointless

[fathom hill]

read everything dawg

[sinful nimbus]

Why are we saying the things Hornet acknowledges she did aren't canon 🥴

[rough ingot]

dude this argument is going nowhere

[sinful nimbus]

Its in the game so its canon unless proven otherwise (Which you can't)

[vestal swan]

Evil is saving him and letting him gaslight a young bug with TK's accomplishments

[cedar skiff]

im not saying they aren’t canon i am calling them irrelevant

which they are

[fathom hill]

who is saying that

bro fighting ghosts

[rough ingot]

can we just find better conversation

[cedar skiff]

slab fly thing actually is relevant and of substance

[sinful nimbus]

Sakeret

[foggy fractal]

act 3 isn't canon cuz I got weaver queen ending and stopped playing 🤑

[vestal swan]

Because if they think if something is bad enough they can just call it gameplay and player choice or something

[sinful nimbus]

Silksoing if it had a good story:??

[mild adder]

The fly genocide didn't happen
THey deserved it
and it should happen again

[foggy fractal]

if only

[rough ingot]

why tho, broodmother lore is already kinda strange, how bad of a crime did they comit to get their whole bloodline cirsed

[cedar skiff]

i never said this

[vestal swan]

Then I wasn't talking about you

[fathom hill]

also i dont like separating canon from the fact that this is a videogame

[cedar skiff]

i dont think anybody else did either

[rough ingot]

why, unless ur playing as the knifht and beat the life outa gms. Why, the ending is so bad

[vestal swan]

Crazy

[fathom hill]

these are not separate, the story is being told through this medium

[hollow ingot]

when was this mentioned?

[fathom hill]

and tc awknowledges that medium\

[hollow ingot]

I didn't really pay attention to that quest or character tbh

[rough ingot]

Some journal entry

[vestal swan]

They could have started out that way because the Weavers also thought they were smelly or something like that, GMS and weavers were not good people

[unique canopy]

Old Penitent mentions it

[rough ingot]

its ok

[sinful nimbus]

Old Penitent says that the Slabflies ancestors committed a crime long ago that caused their entire bloodline to be condemned as Slab wardens

[lethal burrow]

Bro, never got the witch crest

[vestal swan]

Oh they did do something? Maybe I should actually read this npcs dialogue

[rough ingot]

the weavers thought they were divine “she called us daughters” -first sinner, and desired power for themselves

[fathom hill]

cue that one guy that did a ss critique when he didnt even go to act 3

or even sands of karak or bilewater im sure

dude said the game was too small

[rough ingot]

we have way to kany act 3 spoilers

[vestal swan]

How am I supposed to know what your nickname for the root baby is

[vestal swan]

Game journalist type beat

[sinful nimbus]

Uhhh based??

I was critiquing Silksong before the game released

[fathom hill]

dude even tried to pull a "i spoiled you the final boss so fuck you" and its like gms

weird guy

[lethal burrow]

it's description literally says it's a wriggling mass of ashen vine

[vestal swan]

Guys guys the final boss is last judge!

[rough ingot]

one guy put the knight in their YT thumbnail, i got spoiled

[vestal swan]

You said vein tho

[rough ingot]

guys its true the knight isnt in silksong, and GmS is a mod

[fading whale]

Same people who decided that videogame soundtrack Grammy nominees should be Helldivers two, star wars , that shitty avatar game and that shitty Indiana Jones game

[vestal swan]

Grammy's etc are rigged, like unironically that is confirmed. Journalists are just idiots

[edgy nebula]

did you not get the baby of veins ending? This bum..

[fathom hill]

it shows

[rough ingot]

Why does ur avatar decor look like a weaver fused with shade lord and grimm troupe????

[fading whale]

It's a league of legends lore character lol

[fathom hill]

like all star critique makes me believe you want a totally different game

[rough ingot]

I cant unsee it lol

[tepid mountain]

Just one without Act 3.

[fading whale]

Greyroot's big veiny secret

[lethal burrow]

Where does he get his nectar?

[edgy nebula]

i wonder, was karak’s river magical? it seemed to have magic properties based on how the karakans worshipped it

[tepid mountain]

And a better Hornet.

[fathom hill]

or without Hornet

[fading whale]

A teat

[edgy nebula]

also i dont think any water could get that blue without chlorine

[lethal burrow]

oh they would love a different game. That's so much more to complain about!

[edgy nebula]

aphids

[rough ingot]

whos

[fading whale]

Hell if I know

[edgy nebula]

aphids prolly just have teats in hk

[sinful nimbus]

I don't even like metroidvanias idk why I'm here

I was trying to buy shovel knight

[fathom hill]

right

[vestal swan]

Wait I know what they did, one of them overheard GMS talking about raising Weavers and they told first sinner.

[rough ingot]

WHY ARE YOU HERE

[fathom hill]

ah yeah the shovel knight thing

lmao

star never change

[rough ingot]

he beat kratos guys, gets beat by knight even with cuphead helping

[cedar skiff]

chatgpt please generate me a theory

[fading whale]

I genuinely believe team cherry doesn't even vaguely know what the crime of the flies was

[sinful nimbus]

truuuuueeee

[vestal swan]

Do not compare my brilliant ideas to that shit ass copy-paste robot

[fathom hill]

I could believe it

[fading whale]

Because they're not important to the greater story

[tepid mountain]

Fly DLC when?

[fathom hill]

but they did say they apparently know the knights name or something

[snow sonnet]

THK/Sealed Sibling lead to Weaver queen
DNM/EtV lead to Sotv

[fathom hill]

so who knows if they just lie, or if they have it in a napkin somewhere in teh office

[edgy nebula]

his name is bazingle

[sinful nimbus]

Iirc they were talking about the internal name used for translators which I'm pretty sure is "hero"

[lethal burrow]

that's too cruel a comparison

[cedar skiff]

it actually showcases how evil people will pin imaginary crimes onto groups of people as a justification for their horrible actions towards them

[fathom hill]

Yeah they mean the thing they disclose to translators

[idle rain]

hornet is actually not a spider👆 🤓

[rough ingot]

finally someone gets

[fathom hill]

but idk

wanderer/hero/ghost of hallownest

[lethal burrow]

half spider

[edgy nebula]

wait, so, are the weaver’s abilities to generate silk from gms or from pharlids

[fathom hill]

those are all titles, not names

if it makes sense

[fading whale]

And then generations later the system is upheld by people who have no clue about the how or the why

[idle rain]

i was joking

[rough ingot]

**half weaver half wyrm

[fathom hill]

I wonder if Hornet was a title within the hive

[hollow ingot]

it's possible that the weavers just manipulated them like they have with the entire kingdom. Throughout the entire story we see the weavers using religion as a base to manipulate the bugs of Pharloom.

Don't think it's very out of the way to think they just did the same with the Slabflies. The Slab itself was only created after the citadel, and was made to keep bugs that wouldn't believe in the faith of Song, locked up to not spread that idea throughout the general public.

is it possible that maybe the Slabflies just decided to reject the idea of the religion entirely, and then the weavers just cursed them be wardens of the slab, watching over and keeping track of the many other bugs that would have committed the same crime they did.

[idle rain]

man idk wtf i am doing here i dont know the lore at all i just tryna understand everything but i dont

whats a wiener or weaver

whatever

[fathom hill]

Hornet is void bro, dont let anyone convince you otherwise

[vestal swan]

Maybe somebody ate the lunch in the fridge that said Atla

[rough ingot]

watch yt vids forst

[rough ingot]

nah she aint dawg

[fathom hill]

she literally is

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet...

[idle rain]

watched them and its the most confusing thing

[hollow ingot]

weavers are the "childern" of grand mother silk.

[fathom hill]

shes black

[idle rain]

i ever saw

[edgy nebula]

if you need to know karak lore give me a shout

[fading whale]

It really doesn't matter, the meta point is that abusers can be victims too and how truth gets lost in the cycle of violence

[rough ingot]

tried the “do vessels wear clothing one?”

[idle rain]

karak? you mean sands of karak

whats special about that area

[edgy nebula]

yes

[lethal burrow]

Ask questions we all like answering questions that actually have answers

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah the slab is a pretty cool social commentary once you stop thinking about the journal entries

[cedar skiff]

the parallel of the judges who are also basically enslaved but in a “nicer” way and for a greater purpose 💭

[sinful nimbus]

That and Bilewater fit neatly into the themes of the game

[edgy nebula]

uh, nothing really, it’s my favorite area in the game though, also gives us some pretty cool insight on the weavers, also a very fun civilisation

[rough ingot]

phantom stuck in bilewater is narritively very good

[fathom hill]

cue tiso would be the type to say hornet is void cuz her limbs are black, same way she calls the knight pale

[fading whale]

Journal entries that are pretty obviously not meant to be thought about and placed there as a "spiders hate flies" joke

[idle rain]

does someone like bilewater area as like the best place ever?

[rough ingot]

pale shell, black limbs are pretty common

[idle rain]

i dont understand the people that actually like bilewater

i mean thats theri opinion but yeah

strange

[cedar skiff]

i think greymoor works well too. i like how its function changed when the weavers left

[rough ingot]

i like abyss but for the lore

[fathom hill]

citadel propaganda

[lethal burrow]

yeah the story of the area and the residence with the gameplay is really good. I don't know if it's my favourite area but I know some people who do and I absolutely understand.

[hollow ingot]

the entire area itself is deprived of water. The Sand's or Karak, Blasted steps, and maybe even the Worm ways. We're once an area filled with water and ruled over by Crust King Khann.

[cedar skiff]

bilewater has fire music

[idle rain]

il say abyss is for me also a really cool area one of the third best i think but idk whats the best area tbh

[edgy nebula]

likely the slab/some of the citadel aswell

[sinful nimbus]

Weaver Bilewater is finally here 💯
Weaver Bilewater numba one 🗣️

[rough ingot]

Abyss escape also fire, quite literally

[cedar skiff]

also maybe bilewater will be able to recover from the pollution now

[lethal burrow]

also the waterfall from karak likely flowed down into moss grotto, which is why that region is so green

[idle rain]

yeah bro it was so fun i did it second try the first time i was low

[rough ingot]

i just didnt play much of game, so my bro did it when he was sick

[fading whale]

Bilewater hate is overblown fr, it's the same as blight town. I had it hyped up by years of being online and then when I played ds1 it was a nothingburger that didn't take too much to clear

[cedar skiff]

wormways continues to be the most irrelevant area in the game

[rough ingot]

only cuz of groal

[lethal burrow]

Always depends when you do it

[idle rain]

is hornet the sister of ghost?

or half sister

[rough ingot]

half sister

[fathom hill]

half

[idle rain]

oh ok

[fathom hill]

shares father

[lethal burrow]

Half sister

[sinful nimbus]

Biggest issue with Bilewater is how hidden it is

[edgy nebula]

i should do a map of past pharloom.. mm

[idle rain]

the pale king has that rizz

[rough ingot]

But knifht treats her like a sister, since SoTV

[sinful nimbus]

Its behind breakable walls in areas you don't come to often

[lethal burrow]

all roads lead to bilewater eventually

[fathom hill]

pale king likes big women

[fading whale]

I spent like 2 hours without double jump clearing everything possible in bile water without the map and the sucked but it didn't leave a nasty taste in my mouth or anything

[fathom hill]

i wonder if hornet

[cedar skiff]

genuinely how do you even find the hidden bilewater bench if you dont know its there

[idle rain]

yeah

[fathom hill]

nah its prolly nothing

[lethal burrow]

You can't even explore 80% of it without double jump what are you talking about?

[idle rain]

hornet is small even shakra said it

[fading whale]

I like that it's hell to navigate basically the Vietnam jungle experience, which I think is intentional too

[edgy nebula]

hornet is really small, cause pk was short as shit

[sinful nimbus]

"Wow this runback is long I bet there's a quicker way to do this"

[fathom hill]

hornet could just like women in general and theyd be big for her is what you saying?

[fading whale]

Yep you can't, I sure as hell tried

[idle rain]

i did heared theories that hornet could be lesbian

[sinful nimbus]

Throwback to a few years ago when I got stuck on Hornet 1 for a very long time before learning there was a stagway bench wayyy closer to the fight after I beat it

[idle rain]

i really hope its not true

[cedar skiff]

a thought process for someone with the skill issue of not defeating groal on the second try 💭

[fading whale]

And then it's not even that much quicker

[lethal burrow]

The block puzzle in the vaults if nothing else, cause there's an obvious block puzzle and then most players aren't just going to think it does nothing so they're going to find the secret wall gap and then they're going to explore that area and then they're going to fall into bile water if they didn't find the secret wall in sinners Road

[fading whale]

Holy based tc

[edgy nebula]

we dont have anything to prove she is, it’s all headcanon

[fathom hill]

[lethal burrow]

oh, you were talking about the bench specifically my bad I didn't read right, yeah no that's not supposed to be easy to find I guess lmao

[fathom hill]

im not gonna question that one

[idle rain]

what do you guys like more the true ending in first hk or in silksong?

[edgy nebula]

when i first played hk i ragequit and stopped playing for like half a year on the double shrumal ogre room, the one that gives you the charm notch

[cedar skiff]

tbh the most annoying thing about bilewater is the rng enemies

[edgy nebula]

probably hk

[cedar skiff]

everything else is tolerable

[idle rain]

i just started playing hk

[lethal burrow]

everything about bile water encourage use you not to handle it in a way that makes it easier for you. It's oppressive in a way that makes it so that you're not likely to find the bench or the extra silk before the fight, or use the good strategies against the gauntlet or the boss.

I love it. It's so mean.

[fathom hill]

The work you have to do to get the flower ending in hk makes me turn towards that one

but ss true ending is great

[cedar skiff]

and the bench makes you pass through maggot water unless you time it well which Ughh

[idle rain]

i wasnt a metrovenia person so i never really tried it but when silksong was popular i did play it now its my favorite game ever in existed better than gta 6 jiggle pyshics

[fading whale]

I can't wait for silksong DLC ending to be something crazy we could never imagine

[idle rain]

so yeah thats why i jsut started hk

[fathom hill]

just ig a bit underwhelming aside from the knight appearance

[lethal burrow]

it's very close, but I think dream no more is better than sister of the void? They're too different I guess for me to properly compare

[hollow ingot]

Most likey. I'm pretty sure the entire area of Mount Fay is where all the water use to come from. The ice would melt in the warmer areas of the mountain and fall down into all the "Sand" areas.

Think of it like the Blue Lake, and City of Tears situation.

This also could tie into when the water source for all those areas was cut off. If the water did indeed come from Mount Fay, the construction of the Slab, and going through and cutting all the water off from Mount Fay would be a pretty easy way to eliminate the Weavers biggest obstacle

[idle rain]

i do have 60 hours in silksong

[fathom hill]

i really wish we got something more after the ending but who knows

[idle rain]

i wanna make it 100

[fathom hill]

maybe dlc or any other project outside will answer for that

[vestal swan]

I think it's going to be pretty hard for them to do something we can't imagine with all the random bullshit we keep coming up with

[fading whale]

Like if it's as crazy as EtV is compared to dnm it's gonna be amazing

[cedar skiff]

i cant even begin to imagine how a non godhome boss rush dlc would end

[lethal burrow]

saaame.

We need something to rival pure vessel also

[edgy nebula]

yeah, it’s very likely, my theory is that the weavers diverted the naturally flowing lava, freezing the ricer

[snow sonnet]

DNM is best ending

[fathom hill]

also the pantheon endings have thk finally free and im fond of that

[cedar skiff]

i subscribe to the idea that itll use the memory mechanic but like

[scenic bronze]

I don't know if it would have an ending

[cedar skiff]

what the fuck will be the story

[idle rain]

yeah i guess the first game could be better but the true ending in ss was still shocking i never knew ghost would appear

[scenic bronze]

The dlcs might not add any endings

It could all be side stuff

[idle rain]

idk the names of the endings

i jsut know true ending

thats all💀

[scenic bronze]

The dlcs could have their OWN endings, like Grimm troupe

[lethal burrow]

they also have the knight stuck in God home(?)

[cedar skiff]

it doesnt matter what the best ending is because etv is the worst

[edgy nebula]

i think us pre-citadel karak believers should declare war on the memorium crustcrags

[snow sonnet]

Dream No More, the one where you defeat Radiance from black egg

[lethal burrow]

Lucky you didn't get spoiled on that, like dodging bullets in the matrix

[sinful nimbus]

DNM is the peakest of the peak

[fathom hill]

im pretty sure they arent given we see the shade lord in sister of the void

[idle rain]

it was hard as fuck cause my fyp is just with ss

[fathom hill]

so thats a way to kind of confirm they really arent stuck after the transformation?

[lethal burrow]

[fathom hill]

and could be in the abyss

[fading whale]

i can't really imagine an equivalent character to pure vessel. First sinner I guess but she's done they can't bring her back

[edgy nebula]

tk can leave whenever with the dreamnail, presumably

[idle rain]

i did got a bit of spoiler and saw like ghost as the void and hornet but i assumed it was false

[snow sonnet]

I got spoiled on it when I tried to see how I could reach act 3 (It was those fuckin' fleas my last requirement)

[idle rain]

since i only saw one clip

[cedar skiff]

prime phantom?

phantom and lace duo fight?

[lethal burrow]

But God seeker mode is canon though....

[cedar skiff]

itd have to do something with lace honestly…

[sinful nimbus]

Dream No More > Hollow Knight = Sealed Siblings > Weaver Queen > Twisted Child > Sister of the Void
Don't @ me

[idle rain]

tbh i didnt watched a single video for ss

[lethal burrow]

It canonically takes place after the God home ending guys you can't deny it

[fathom hill]

we talked abt this

[ember river]

No, Pale Beings in general seem to handle Soul, and Unn wields Essence

[sinful nimbus]

I forgot ETV existed but whatever

[idle rain]

i wanted my first playthrough to alwasy be with no help

[lethal burrow]

I don't recall anyone saying anything besides "shut up we wanna ignore it"

[fathom hill]

Im yet again, not taking a translators words on such a dumb piece of lore

i refuse it

[hollow ingot]

It's possible, but for the lava to be the reason why Mount Fay wasn't frozen in the first place, the lava would have to be directly under/where the Moss Grotto is right now. And there's no evidence of lava/fire being anywhere near that area

[fading whale]

That'd be neat, but I honestly don't want another lace fight, 3 is enough. Plus lace is now an ally

[hollow ingot]

cool theory tho

[lethal burrow]

The English is the thing that makes it. It's not a translation.

[fathom hill]

I was the one to say this and i mean it

[cedar skiff]

phantom and lace duo fight would be kino i fear

[fathom hill]

nah im kidding we can talk abt it

[idle rain]

tbh lace is super fun

[fathom hill]

But how do you explain the knight just retaining their form

[idle rain]

id fight her again

[sinful nimbus]

The translator is irrelevant we know GSM takes place after P5 because that's what Godseeker's dialogue implies

[fathom hill]

if the mask is cracked

[cedar skiff]

i mean i think about the silksong godhome equivalent as using the memory mechanic so i believe something like that would take place in the past

[fathom hill]

look up the source to that one in the wiki

[idle rain]

i know it doesnt make sense to fight her again since you save her live

but yeah jsut for the challange

[sinful nimbus]

Essence shenanigans or wtv

[idle rain]

i would do a harder one

[fading whale]

Yes I would too but narratively it would suck and make no sense

[idle rain]

yeah just what i said

[lethal burrow]

what do you mean the source? The source is the gods seeker dialogue that's different.

I don't need no whiskey I can just look at my screen

[cedar skiff]

id be fine with just a prime phantom fight too. i want more silk siblings lore ughhh

[fading whale]

I don't care how cheese it would be, I want to fight the pale king

[idle rain]

it wouldt make sense cause hornet saves her

[sinful nimbus]

LOST PHANTOM

[fading whale]

LOST KING

[sinful nimbus]

Kinda tuff why doesn't she get voided

[idle rain]

i am near to reach path of pain any tips?

[rough ingot]

lost sinner

[idle rain]

more like rizz king

he mananged to get those baddies

[sinful nimbus]

This is the lore channel but most sections have infinite soul refills so don't stress too much

[idle rain]

oh really

[sinful nimbus]

There is one section near the beginning without infinite soul refills but you only need to do it once

[idle rain]

i thought there is no checkpoints

[edgy nebula]

if youre afraid of dying before the checkpoints there's always hiveblood

[cedar skiff]

i really do want to know more about phantom

[lethal burrow]

https://tenor.com/view/ds2-ds2lore-dark-souls-dark-souls2-yakuza-gif-23556719

[fathom hill]

aight so all dialogue

[cedar skiff]

i always get invested in the storylines that are nothingburger fuck my life

[fathom hill]

godhome mode is gotten after?

how did you get godhome mode

[idle rain]

why is most of the fans so sus they say they love hornet and not how shes made fan made art btu just normal canon stickman hornet

they are crazy....

[fathom hill]

p5 or p4?

[idle rain]

but i am one of them

ayooo

[cedar skiff]

also in a boss rush mode void gms is like totally happening

[idle rain]

joke

[rough ingot]

lost sinner is cutrently hardest silksong mod

[rough ingot]

or just absolute gms

[idle rain]

sinner is fun

[rough ingot]

i mean the modded first sinner boss lost sinner

[idle rain]

i would love to try

[fading whale]

SotV=EtV>DnM>THK=WQ>SS=TC

[idle rain]

but i am trash at modding

[fathom hill]

ok so you unlock godhome mode after beating p4

[rough ingot]

same but i csnt on switch

[rough ingot]

p3 or 04?

[idle rain]

i am on pc i can

[fathom hill]

the one that we say, oh it was after p5 was some random german translator

[idle rain]

but i am trash

[rough ingot]

i wana play mods 🙂

[lethal burrow]

as far as I know it's unlocked after the first three pantheons? this dialogue is exclusive to that mode as far as I'm aware.

[idle rain]

i mean you can pirate the game if you dont wanna buy it again or like dont you have a pc or laptop at all

[hollow ingot]

do you guys think it's possible the scrabbed "Barnacle Bay" area could have been a subsection to the right of Bilewater entirely. always felt weird to me that there's a shit ton of space to the right over here, and it would fit perfectly based on how Bilewater looked pre-weavers

[lethal burrow]

or maybe it's just if you redo the pantheons after pantheon five actually I'm not sure

[fathom hill]

yah that dialogue is exclusive to the mode

[rough ingot]

i dont think u can mod pirated hames

[rough ingot]

dlc idea

[cedar skiff]

the existence of a first sinner implies a second and perhaps third sinner

[fathom hill]

i was wrong, it was third indeed

[idle rain]

yes youc an

[fathom hill]

but lorewise its supposed to be after p5

[idle rain]

i pirated first hk

[rough ingot]

and steel city and steel assasins

[fathom hill]

we literally have no proof of this

[idle rain]

and got mods

[fathom hill]

besides again, that translator

[idle rain]

i eman i saw a video

[rough ingot]

yea, also with old menu storage stuff u can talk to dogseeker

[rough ingot]

nice

[idle rain]

i never got to mod anything

idk hwo it works

[fathom hill]

dogseeker

[lethal burrow]

I would say the dialogue refers to the shade Lord's form

[fathom hill]

hehe

[rough ingot]

probably

[rough ingot]

thats why yt tutorials exists

[fathom hill]

huhh id have to check what exaclty happens in the third pantheon

[lethal burrow]

beware the rekees dog

[fathom hill]

or what its significance is

[idle rain]

i watched a lot but whe i install the mod menu they do or other mods it isnt the same file and even when they put it in description

every tutorial is like super old for hk

but for ss i might be lucky

i didnt try on ss

yet

[hollow ingot]

so excited for the dlcs. I'm interested to see what they do exactly. Godhome would be a nice little inclusion, but based on the fact the "Embrace The Void" ending is now most likely the most Cannon ending for Hollow Knight now, I doubt they find a way to work Godhome into Silksong

[fathom hill]

this is the proof stated in the wiki

[idle rain]

whats p5 and p4

[fathom hill]

which is just

[idle rain]

i keep hearing it and hering that is a hk thing

[fathom hill]

huhhhh

[fathom hill]

pantheons in hk

[lethal burrow]

I agree that the mode canonically takes place after the God seeker endings in some

[idle rain]

whats that

[foggy fractal]

boss rushes

[spark valve]

The wiki has some iffy stuff there’s better evidence gsm takes place after EtV in the form of the intro cutscene

[idle rain]

new bosses or the same

[spark valve]

And Godseeker dialogue in gsm

[lethal burrow]

so I guess the knight just took a break from dying to radiant markoth to help hornet real quick in pharloom

[sinful nimbus]

Guys the german translator told me Moss Druid is enby

[foggy fractal]

some same some a little different, y'know you can search it up or check the wiki

[fathom hill]

again, this evidence is just

[hollow ingot]

Pantheons. Boss rushes in the orignal hk. P4 is the forth Pantheon where you fight all of the dream bosses, and Pure Vessel.

P5 is every boss in the game, and ends on Abs Rad

[fathom hill]

messy at best

[idle rain]

i am stuck on soul tyrant i dont have time to heal in phase 2

[rough ingot]

ppl say final pantheon boss is void given focus i dont think thats a good idea

[lethal burrow]

The evidence is there and it points to a clear thing. Everything surrounding is weird, but the thing itself is pretty straightforward.

[fathom hill]

like wym the godseekers just cleaned up? the knight retains their form even if their mask cracked?

[foggy fractal]

then you should go to #hk-help instead

[idle rain]

like i said i dont like to watch tutorials or any kind of videos on my first playthroughs

[fathom hill]

like it makes no sense

even more now that we see that they were hanging out in the abyss

[rough ingot]

also bye chat

[idle rain]

it just breaks the exploration and shit

[spark valve]

Godhome is a dream that’s not mutually exclusive

[lethal burrow]

God seeker looks weird outside, but looks way different inside the dream so I don't know some. There's something to that to be. There's some sort of thing you could say with that I'm sure there's something.

[fathom hill]

evidence is some rando saying things in discord

[cedar skiff]

wait seriously elaborate

[fathom hill]

like cmon dude

[idle rain]

i am going its 11pm for me dawg

[lethal burrow]

you are you bring that up so often but I have not once brought that up. I'm only talking about game dialogue from the god seeker mode. That's it man..

I don't know why you obsessed with this translation or whoever this guy is I don't even know who it is

[idle rain]

are yall from amerima

are for yall morning

[spark valve]

Let’s not get into translator stuff on these issues people get mad enough about silksong pronoun discourse as is

[fathom hill]

Yeah but again as i said

[idle rain]

or is for someone also night

[fathom hill]

the only reason thats even a discussion its cuz they said that and its been repeated, the game does not indicate any of this and actually shows the contrary

[cedar skiff]

oh i was just curious about this specific instance because i do speak german and gender neutral translations are a bit tricky but i do agree

[sinful nimbus]

I'm joshing

[cedar skiff]

welp

[foggy fractal]

hello Josh Ing

[fathom hill]

idk who this is either but its the citation in the wiki

[lethal burrow]

don't accuse my reasons I said from the very beginning, I'm basing it off of the dialogue in the mode.

You can say it makes no sense, but it's not very cool of you to do that and not provide an alternative explanation.

If you want, you can say that God seeker mode takes place after the flower version and embrace the void is what goes into silk song if you want to do the stupid ending Schrodinger stuff.

[cedar skiff]

this will drastically affect moss druid lore

[sinful nimbus]

who9 tf cares what's cited on the wiki they cite anything there 😭

[spark valve]

The wiki isn’t the most reliable for some things

[lethal burrow]

I guess but I don't see how that matters anything I'm saying

[hollow ingot]

Don't heal. Best advice I give to most players who are new to hk. Most bosses have set time/parts that allow you to heal. For example: right after you defeat the first Mantis Lord, you get a couple seconds to heal before the other 2 hop in.

You shouldn't be approching bosses thinking they gonna let you stop halfway into an attack and heal. Go into every boss having learned there pattern fully and try to no hit it as much as you can.

-# this is advice from someone who no hit EVERY boss in the game btw. So I think ik what I'm talking about lol

[lethal burrow]

this dialogue is like a thing in the game like I don't get the point of this, unless people are trying to argue that the dialogue isn't real. Someone should just be able to hop into God seeker mode go through the first pantheon and screenshot some of it if proof is needed.

[lyric widget]

that "random guy" is one of the German translators for HK

[idle rain]

yeah and where is the time to heal in soul tyrant phase 2?

he comes from above and you dodge and i can like heal one time with the quick focus when he shoots with the balls

but then i get hit

[fathom hill]

oh my apologies

[idle rain]

and i am back to the same health

[fathom hill]

calling me uncool smh

[lyric widget]

I literally added who that user on discord is lol

[idle rain]

GERMAN

i am in germany

crazyyy

[cedar skiff]

translator isnt as relevant as playtester

in this case

[hollow ingot]

you don't get to heal during phase two. Your suppose to make it to phase two with as much health as you can possibly hold onto, then avoid his slam attack, and then hit him as many times as humanly possible, while avoiding his orange balls.

[lyric widget]

what's relevant is that he had direct contact with TC and they told him something, this is a reliable source lmao, we don't just "cite anything" on the wiki, what is this statement

[cedar skiff]

i dont even know what this discussion is about anyway

[hollow ingot]

was about lore. Then I started giving this guy advice

[fathom hill]

ok so im guessing by the dialogue alone

[idle rain]

yeah i do eneter phase 2 with full health most of the time but the thing is with the balls they are to many and if i wanna hit him i cant also dodge is too hard and you better not say to git gud

[fathom hill]

you mean this line?

[foggy fractal]

doesn't matter when godseeker mode takes place cuz godseekers suck ! 👹

[fathom hill]

cuz yknow

[sinful nimbus]

Its a 🥴 comment we don't really have much reason to put much credibility to

"canonically" is even in quotes like ???

And he later said he regretted saying that

[fathom hill]

the rest of the dialogue is just godseeker glazin

[eternal nova]

best charm loadout for soul tyrant i have 10 notches

[lyric widget]

it is definitely credible, but you can make what you want of it, it's not really conclusive

[hollow ingot]

git gud :3

wait for the balls to spawn, and try to guide them into the ground to make them explode.

[lethal burrow]

That is one of the lines of dialogue that I think points towards it yes

[lyric widget]

why is there gameplay discussion in this channel

[idle rain]

ima explode your balls if you say git gud

[hollow ingot]

dude, this is the Silksong lore channel 😭

[idle rain]

wow i have one notch in plus

[fathom hill]

Oh i wonder if beating p3 does that 180 change in the godseeker

[sinful nimbus]

Keep in mind TC have said that anything that's not in the game (and presumably other stuff like Wanderer's Journal) isn't canon which would probably include random things they said to translators one day

[fathom hill]

they still trashtalk us when we do p4 and p5 right?

[idle rain]

and i cant get overcharmed cause i will die in two seconds

[hollow ingot]

https://discord.com/channels/283467363729408000/349116318865424384 PLEASE go into this channel

[eternal nova]

i thought i was in GENERAL

[hollow ingot]

https://tenor.com/view/silly-cat-silly-car-car-stare-10-thousand-yard-stare-10-thousand-yard-gif-14200271775968563996

[lethal burrow]

I DONT CARE.

I don't care from the very beginning about some mystery translator.

it's not relevant stop bringing them up!

[idle rain]

https://tenor.com/view/hornet-silksong-stick-bugged-stick-bugged-gif-5833534606468811764

[sinful nimbus]

I wasn't really talking to you

[hollow ingot]

can we go back to talking about lore. I'm not trying to be a hk coach right now

[sinful nimbus]

Someone pointed out that something wonky was cited on the wiki and I agreed

[foggy fractal]

why did they strap wolf man onto nuclear warhead ?

[fathom hill]

yah the godseeker shit should prolly go to hk lore rather than here

[lethal burrow]

Yeah which is in part why I believe that God secret mode takes place after the final ending to the God seeker stuff

[cedar skiff]

ah the quirrel comic 🚬

[idle rain]

silksong should actually be 18+ cause hornet inthe slab is naked and also when he puts his cloack back on when he can glide👆

[cedar skiff]

wheres my shakra comic

[foggy fractal]

2

[fathom hill]

need

[lethal burrow]

But sister of the void is relevant context for deciphering shit

[fathom hill]

god i hope they do more comics

I really hope they revive that idea

[idle rain]

cloak*

[fathom hill]

maybe with the next collectors edition for ss?

[cedar skiff]

its all i want next to an art book

[fathom hill]

god i hope so

[fathom hill]

yah but we dont have a godseeker in ss yet

maybe we will but not yet

[cedar skiff]

god imagine the lore discourse an art book would cause jfc

[fathom hill]

most of the info is from hk

[lethal burrow]

but sister of the void has the knight and Lord stuff so it's it's unavoidably relevant I think

[fathom hill]

only thing i could say that is relevant is the fact that we saw the knight not with their mask\

[foggy fractal]

oh shit Lace plush tease https://www.fangamer.com/

silksong merch coming Wednesday, November 26

[fathom hill]

holy shit

big news

silksong is releasing 2025

[cedar skiff]

omg

does this mean we may be getting a silksong trailer soon

[fathom hill]

no way

[unique canopy]

Silksong is in fact peak, but I'm not sure what mouthwashing has to do with it ||/s||

[fathom hill]

my girl 💔

fuckkk my savings

[foggy fractal]

idk maybe tc wants to promote good dental hygein

[sinful nimbus]

Phantom plushie 🙏

That's pretty peak

[fathom hill]

oh god hopefully

[cedar skiff]

shakra figure pleaseeee

[foggy fractal]

anyway back to the topic at hand, given that the qurriel comic was a part of the collector's edition there is a chance we'll finally get a second chapter comic in a silksong's collector's edition

[fathom hill]

trobbio plush to soak into milk and throw into the wall

[fathom hill]

that what i said

also i have this

yes hello im the consumer everyone talks abt

[cedar skiff]

shakra is basically silksongs quirrel anyway

[foggy fractal]

also we may get an illustrated map of pharloom

[fathom hill]

yess

[cedar skiff]

dude fuck yes

[foggy fractal]

and hornet trapped in a case 😭

[snow sonnet]

I'LL BE WAITING, ARI

[fathom hill]

yessss

it took 8 years

for the second comic

[foggy fractal]

🗣️

[fathom hill]

I wonder if it will be pharloom focused

probably right? its the ss edition

will lace be there

[elder rune]

If Verebrates Were to exist in the HK setting, what would they look like?

If vertebrates were to exist in Hollow Knight, it’d be cool if they were eldritch/primordial horrors that’d make the largest IRL vertebrate predators (Like crocodiles or bears) look like cuddly kittens by comparison! That, or they could be fluffy Tyranids.

I found an interesting interpretation of vertebrates (Mostly amphibians like the axoltl) being the denizens of the deepest regions of the Abyss.

[fathom hill]

i mean lions are canon

[spark valve]

Gruzzers are vertebrates

[fathom hill]

i mean a lot of things are vertebrates no?

or is the marrow not really bones and i missed it

[elder rune]

I mean like conventional IRL vertebrates, like mammals/birds and all of that stuff!

[elder rune]

It’s called bones to be fair

[fathom hill]

yeah then lions are canon

[spark valve]

Not really

[elder rune]

What if it’s just an abbreviation for Antlions?

[fathom hill]

did tc say full of antlions

or full of lions hm?

[spark valve]

Even if the lion village wasn’t cut it would be a stag situation

[foggy fractal]

where are the other dungeons grrr

[elder rune]

Tbh if antlions do appear I hope they’ll have thick fluffy manes

[fathom hill]

theres a village out there full of lions in the bug game

you just accept it

[fathom hill]

Some have said they became the skarrs

[hollow ingot]

Why are people still talking bout hk in the Silksong channel 🫩

[fathom hill]

themes intersect

[foggy fractal]

hk is often relevant for silksong

[elder rune]

The conversation started by me asking the hypothetical appearance of IRL vertebrate creatures within the Hollow Knight setting, and how they might be implemented in the lore. My personal idea was of them being primordial horrors or simply fluffy Tyranids (From Warhammer 40k), eating/destroying all in sight.

[quiet narwhal]

What are examples of the minor retcons I've heard people say ss introduces

[fathom hill]

i was mostly joking but yeah vertebrates would need to be huge

but now its the question if these even exist and if they would ever appear

since hk and ss seem to be underground even in the surface

so im guessing what? a cave?

[fathom hill]

Herrah was not a weaver in hk but was retconned to be one in ss

Lifeblood is argued to be a retcon but we arent sure

[hollow ingot]

It’s a cool theory. Idk if we would ever see something like that in later content tho. Especially since the existence of birds are a thing in Pharloom.

[polar fiber]

why would it be a retcon?

[fathom hill]

The hive could also be a retcon, since the hive was completely sealed off to hallownest but in ss its said that it wasnt

[elder rune]

The Craws aren’t True birds. They are 100% bird-coded and heavily resemble irl crows, but they are still bugs that just look like birds.

[fathom hill]

Theres not a trace of a lifeblood infestation like Hornet mentions

But tbf that may not be a retcon but just an inconsistency

[polar fiber]

yeah ig so, lifeblood was odd in hk

[fathom hill]

Some have argued that lifeblood was supposed to be this generally beneficial thing but ss painted it as a infection kind of ordeal, so more malevolent

But that could just be us lacking context in hk since the knight is the only one seen affected by it outside of joni maybe?

but joni does not look mutated at all so who is to know

[hollow ingot]

Lifeblood doesn’t have to be retconed. People do know the existence of other cultures/groups of bugs exists in Hollow Knights universe right?

Pharloom and Hollownest are two completely separate areas in the world of Hollow Knight, both ruled by two completely different dictators, and are vastly different.

Has the idea that maybe people in Pharloom just happen to call it a different name instead of Lifeblood ever come up?

[fathom hill]

yah and the feyforn bird aint a bird either

all bugs

bird like yah but bugs

[abstract rivet]

I think its just language differences

[fathom hill]

Oh no we dont mean the name difference haha

[elder rune]

I’d argue that Careful usage of Lifeblood is beneficial (Since the Mantis Tribe has kept a cocoon of Lifeblood in their village), but it is still an addictive fantasy drug that requires restraint lest you mutate and destroy your body like what happened to Zylotol.

[abstract rivet]

Or how the british call it trousers and the americans call it pants

Its kinda in the same boat

plasmium or lifeblood

kingdom difference

[opaque pier]

Me when the edgy choir bugs peer pressure me into doing lifeblood but i lowkey get addicted amd become another plasmified enemy

[abstract rivet]

Would really fit into the difference of other kingdoms

[fathom hill]

Also kind of commentary on doing research without a care for the enviroment

sustainable research

But we talked abt this before, Hornet did see similar aberrations

[unique canopy]

Opioids are legitimate medicine, and also one of the most addictive drugs on the planet.

[abstract rivet]

Its like coffee if you drink one cup you lowkey become more energetic but if you drink 50 cups you lowkey kinda caffeine overdose

[hollow ingot]

That’s most likely why it was completely swore off in Hollownest. Bugs saw the long lasting effects of lifeblood, and most likely swore it off as a curse. The way it alters your body is insane in the whole grand scheme of things.

[abstract rivet]

It may be just chemistry in this gsme

[fathom hill]

yah yah

[abstract rivet]

yeah its like that

[fathom hill]

Hornet does say its alluring

and given how zylotol and yarnaby treat it, it must have an addictive component

[abstract rivet]

or maybe other kingdoms bugs are different and hallownest has strong patriots to benefit off lifeblood instead of dying from it

we could never know..

[fathom hill]

now, is the component by a higher being, like the alluring of the radiance?

[elder rune]

Yeah, the Wormways ends up becoming infested by Lifeblood Because of Zylotol & his apprentice’s (Non-possessed too as far as I know) very libertarian usage of the substance, actively growing it and making it spread without any regard for the environment and casually huffing it as if it were candy.

[fathom hill]

who is to say

[abstract rivet]

kinda resembles drug useage irl

[unique canopy]

On the topic of research specifically, Hornet doesn't mock Zylotol for his research, only warns him of the potential for serious side effects. It's Zango she mocks, for being careless and just spreading it everywhere and letting it infect and kill him.

[hollow ingot]

Comparing video game blue liquid to real life drugs that have effects peoples lives 🥀

[abstract rivet]

is Silksong too real?

[abstract rivet]

It is a great analogy however

[unique canopy]

Fictional thing is analogy for real life thing, woah what a strange and novel concept

[fathom hill]

I havent seen the dialogue where he mocks him, is it the hunter journal?

[hollow ingot]

%100, I’ve seen first hand what shit like that does to you. It’s a great analogy to use

[unique canopy]

For Zango, yeah

[fathom hill]

she just say "huh, ironic" im sure

or not ironic but rather

[elder rune]

Yeah, the fact Hornet asks Zylotol (Someone who sang his highest praises for the substance pre-mutation) if he’ll seek medical assistance for his mutations implies that those who have used the substance “only” become addicted (And fully reliant afterwards due to mutations) to its benefits, and that it doesn’t spread via possession or mind control like with the Radiance’s infection.

[abstract rivet]

Hornet doesnt do anything and helps this mf to grow plasmium then complains about how hes useless

Fuck you hornet

[unique canopy]

Zango is already dead by the time she shows up

[fathom hill]

where does it say that though

[abstract rivet]

hunter journal

Not literally yk

[fathom hill]

im actually going blind which line?

like she calls him careless ig

[abstract rivet]

yeah

[fathom hill]

careless is not useless though

[abstract rivet]

dont take it literally lol you get my point

[fathom hill]

Im just confused cuz three people have said something like this

Like i literally thought i missed something

yall are fuckin with me

[hollow ingot]

Not like she could could have done anything. If we go back to the real life drugs analogy, once people are too far into an addiction there’s no one else but themselves that can pull them out of that deep hole.

You either die choosing to embrace the addiction, letting it ruin your life and control the outcome of your decisions. Or you overcome it, and come out of the entire experience a different person

[elder rune]

So Lifeblood isn’t wholly evil or good, it’s more of a neutral & “natural” presence that can be used/misused by others.

Natural in quotations due to the Lifeblood being that may exist, but Higher Beings are seemingly a natural presence within HK’s setting.

[abstract rivet]

Hornet helps this moron to grow his careless plasmium project even more then insults

zylotol

[fathom hill]

I mean even if you say so Hornet also helps him do that to the enviroment by helping his research

[abstract rivet]

yeah..

[fathom hill]

but tbf he would have continued to inject plasmium in the flora and fauna regardless

and even if he stopped who knows if what they had already done was reversible at all

[abstract rivet]

how does the plasmium takeover

does it make you believe in a bug like the infection

[fathom hill]

jouissance

[abstract rivet]

What do plasmium needolin dialogue say

[elder rune]

Pretty sure it is reversible, albeit to a certain point

[hollow ingot]

Sisters gotta do what she needs to, to make money.

Plus Hornet grew up in Hollownest, she’s lived her whole life up to the point seeing lifeblood and tabu, and a curse if you ingest it. No wonder she calls the guy an idiot

[hexed kindle]

Its more hive mind and parasite esque than the radiance

[abstract rivet]

basically worse

[hexed kindle]

Yeah

[vestal swan]

I don't think lifeblood has any kind of hive mind? Besides it's the vague connection to dreams in the first game I don't think a connection between mutations is ever stated?

[fathom hill]

I mean the aberrations

[hexed kindle]

And it mutates your body way more than the radiance

[abstract rivet]

how?

[vestal swan]

Radiance doesn't mutate she just bloats by forcing a foreign substance inside your body

[fathom hill]

as in the junkies already injected so much lifeblood in the enviroment even if they stopped what happens to wormways would have still carried