sk-lore

[fathom hill]

I think architects last no?

[edgy nebula]

The architects were made by the conductors

[cedar skiff]

i mean the conductors made the memorium

[snow sonnet]

What'd you do

[frosty gate]

We don't know that

[fathom hill]

Since the robots thing was a recent thing to automatize the song

[cedar skiff]

maybe they established the vaults for a similar purpose

[edgy nebula]

They have silkflies in them and were made to maintain the music boxes in cogwork core

Afaik

[foggy fractal]

pissed off a conductor

[sinful nimbus]

What we have is kinda tuff

[edgy nebula]

damn which conductor was it

[frosty gate]

Architects had to be the ones that made the entire Cogwork core

[sinful nimbus]

But tbh nothing in Silksong has lore 💔

[foggy fractal]

mizzelo

[frosty gate]

Everything had to have more lore

[fathom hill]

Something something zote precept says not to linger on mysteries

lore is no more guys pack it up

[cedar skiff]

speak of memorium i think its super interesting how invasive verdania was to the memorium and it puts verdania regrowing from the green princes corpse in a cooler context

[sinful nimbus]

Clearly William wrote most of the game

[frosty gate]

Plus, they learned from the Weavers

[twin dragon]

God forbid a sequel has elements from the first game

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah

You can't pull the "What did you expect" argument because they advertised something different too

[twin dragon]

it's not

[sinful nimbus]

also that was like 50 minutes ago 💔

Everything about Act 3 is to please the fans because there is no narrative reason for the void threading to exist

ts has nothing to do with the lore 🥀

[fathom hill]

That is interesting

Also how quickly it seemed to have fallen

To the point that some believe it to have been a myth

[foggy fractal]

speaking of, the three enemies were described to be "This is a tough later game trio who, when in battle, work closely together, covering for each other’s weaknesses." so it was safe to assume that they were a boss encounter

maybe something got changed and now they're just enemies

[sinful nimbus]

They are said to be enemies in the blogpost iirc?

[spark valve]

sure but like bosses are enemies

[fathom hill]

Wasn't the whole concept of the assassins that they would hunt Hornet?

[spark valve]

Yes

[fathom hill]

Like i always imagined more than a boss batle just them pursuing you in some areas

[cedar skiff]

maybe they couldnt figure out a way to code that

[fathom hill]

Like in the trailer ik but aidufhf

[cedar skiff]

team cherry is WASHED

[fathom hill]

what other footage do we have of them dawg

[sinful nimbus]

idk this doesn't sound like it was going to be a boss

That was just our assumption

[cedar skiff]

did they even patch the silkeater glitch yet

[ornate pier]

I assumed it means like they're normal enemies but were meant to synergize with eachother or smth

[frosty gate]

I don't really think this idea is happening no more

[sinful nimbus]

If its fun chances are they've patched it

Mfs think they nintendo 😭

[foggy fractal]

do these three work as a trio in game though

is there a room where all three of them appear

[cedar skiff]

yes

[fathom hill]

Prolly not

[ornate pier]

I think so but they're far apart

[frosty gate]

Ironically, it is kinda rare to fight these 3 together

[ornate pier]

Eitherway it doesnt sound like a boss

[cedar skiff]

because they would body you

[limpid summit]

Voided 164 and 165 genuinely almost ended my steel soul run

[frosty gate]

They would be annoying to deal with all of them together though

[fathom hill]

The scroll guys and the lamp guys are often together

[limpid summit]

TC was right

[sinful nimbus]

Why were in you in the vaults in Act 3

[limpid summit]

Vaultborn entry

[fathom hill]

The other ones with the scroll guys are in distinct areas of the vaults though

[limpid summit]

I actually haven’t finished

[sinful nimbus]

[fathom hill]

Don't think they ever mix in the same room

[twin dragon]

Not rlly what they intended to show as it was obvious

[sinful nimbus]

what

[twin dragon]

Gms in the void, void rise through the threads because it wants to destroy shit and now they have a bigger problem to solve

Because we couldn't get consequences for doing all that wacky shit in the first game

so they had to cram it all in silksong

[sinful nimbus]

This has nothing to do with the themes of the game

Very clear they made ts up as they went along

[twin dragon]

I believe that consequences are a big theme of the game

[sinful nimbus]

Elaborate?

[twin dragon]

From the very begging, gms receives the bad end of the stick for being a bad mother, or because the weavers are power hungry, either way, she gets sealed off

Which then, comes back to bite them in the ass

[frosty gate]

I should've put "Act 3 is bad discussion" as part of the Bingo

[twin dragon]

as they now have to face her sealed mother's wrath since nothing would keep her asleep forever

they ran off

Not before gifting the rule to a high caste, whom after mate the citadel a big shiny torture church

[sinful nimbus]

That's not really framed as a theme of the game

And that's not true the Weavers died because of other reasons they didn't run because they knew they couldn't keep her asleep forever

[twin dragon]

I see it as such

[fathom hill]

Yall did a sk lore bingo?

[twin dragon]

Their decision still ended up biting back

[frosty gate]

That's just the events of the game, not really the theme

[fathom hill]

Show pls

[frosty gate]

It's on HKmeme, look it up on my name

[twin dragon]

The themes of a videogame can be depicted through the events yeah

[sinful nimbus]

No it didn't

They just staved off GMS for a time nothing backfired on them per se

[fathom hill]

Link it? channel does not appear for me

[twin dragon]

GMS in time would come after them

[fathom hill]

unless im going blind

[twin dragon]

and the thought of it haunted them

[sinful nimbus]

She did not

Nor is that true

[twin dragon]

For their offspring at the very least

[sinful nimbus]

What offspring

[frosty gate]

It's the last channel in the "General" section

[twin dragon]

Cradle tablets

[frosty gate]

https://discord.com/channels/283467363729408000/736153071218065508

[sinful nimbus]

Those aren't Citadel weavers

[fathom hill]

also in genuinely think that everyone that stirs this conversation is starpengu

[sinful nimbus]

Citadel Weavers died thinking the Citadel would continue

[fathom hill]

and some starpengu wannabees ive seen these days

[twin dragon]

.

[fathom hill]

how do they keep appearing

[frosty gate]

Yeah but I already put some targeted ones so

[twin dragon]

They didn't

[sinful nimbus]

They just don't have the same sauce

[twin dragon]

they lowkey fled to search for a permanent solution

burdened by gms's existence

[frosty gate]

"Red Memory Slander" is quite literally targeted to Star and Metal because they're the only two who bring it up ever

[twin dragon]

people talk abt red memory here?

wild

[sinful nimbus]

Last words of the Weavers.

"Sisters, spiders, **the burden is passed. ** These simple bugs shall bear it full. Never to cease. Never to silence.

We shall die, and wait, and pray, that one may come of silken strength enough to weave us free."

[frosty gate]

Barely

[twin dragon]

"that one may come of silken strength enough to weave us free."

[sinful nimbus]

The weavers that fled were of a different Weavenest named Cindril

[fathom hill]

haha sometimes

[sinful nimbus]

From the burden of keeping the song going yes

[twin dragon]

Lmao that's clearly referencing gms

[fathom hill]

Mainly yah it's saying red memory is just fanservice or something

[sinful nimbus]

No its not

[fathom hill]

which is true but yknow

[twin dragon]

Sort of

[fathom hill]

Or the vespa/herrah retcon things

[sinful nimbus]

They literally mention that the new rulers have a burden of keeping the song going

[fathom hill]

Which is in the bingo im sure

[twin dragon]

Though they knew that the citadel wouldn't last

afaik

[sinful nimbus]

Proof

"Never to cease, never to silence" indicates otherwise

[twin dragon]

They decided to flee for a reason

[frosty gate]

Each Weavenest had their goal right? Cindril ones decided to flee, Murglin tried to kill her?

[sinful nimbus]

They did not.

They died

[sinful nimbus]

Yes

[fathom hill]

also no slab fly discussion in the bingo?

[twin dragon]

They literally did

[sinful nimbus]

Proof?

[twin dragon]

Hornet racist bingo

[frosty gate]

Atla just tried to reproduce

[sinful nimbus]

Atla created the Citadel

[cedar skiff]

heartwarming after destroying all of pharloom the weavers just kill themselves

[twin dragon]

Deepnest?, weavenest cindril?

[sinful nimbus]

Cindril isn't part of the Citadel

[frosty gate]

I decided to put it under "Bug Politics"

[sinful nimbus]

That was before the Citadel was founded

[twin dragon]

proof?

Aren't they post gms

[fathom hill]

we love made up discourse

[frosty gate]

On god? How do we know?

[twin dragon]

it's sort of true

[frosty gate]

This is, unfortunately, real discourse

[twin dragon]

TC didn't formulate hornet's thoughts about the wardenflies well enough

[fathom hill]

everything is made up

In the sense that yknow

[twin dragon]

Ok this is now just a load of bullshit

[fathom hill]

Discourse that doesn't matter to the game on itself

[twin dragon]

Hornet is the game's protagonist

[sinful nimbus]

Cindril Weavers fled GMS, therefore the Citadel was not established yet
We know the Weavers did not believe the Citadel would fail because of their own words

[fathom hill]

Reminds me of someone that was genuinely calling us racist for not taking the matter seriously

genocide apologists and allat

the internet is dumb

[sinful nimbus]

There's a songshrine bell in Atla they were also devising traps and stuff

[fathom hill]

Oh we talking abt this now?

Please don't

or do

Idc I'll talk abt anything

[twin dragon]

Some of them literally remained, the ones sealed away in pedestals, they were waiting for someone to claim their power

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah?

[twin dragon]

Plus the weavers having cross bred offspring indicates something aswell

[sinful nimbus]

Outside the kingdom

So not Citadel weavers

[frosty gate]

A what now

[sinful nimbus]

Those bells you ring to enter the Citadel

[fathom hill]

yah it's in the bg me think?

[sinful nimbus]

Near the snare setter yeah

[twin dragon]

What is pointing towards the fact that not all the weavers contributed to the citadel

[sinful nimbus]

Duh

[twin dragon]

So weavenest named after atla = everything is made by atla

flawless

[frosty gate]

Wait, where???
I don't try to disprove you by the way, this one makes sense.

"Atla Weaver of Time" because the bitch tried to play for time

[sinful nimbus]

I didn't say Atla the individual I was obviously referring to the weavenest 🥴

[cedar skiff]

i mean the weavers were fucking around pharloom for a good amount of time before actually establishing the citadel so the cindril ones definitely fled during that time

[twin dragon]

Alright thank you lmfao

Was worried for a sec

Yeah that weavenest in specific was made to search for shit that could defeat gms

[cedar skiff]

i think most the weaver architecture was established before the citadel

except maybe in the abyss

[sinful nimbus]

Atla was presumably involved with Weavenest Atla but she wasn't the only Weaver to work on stuff there

[twin dragon]

Yeah no shit???

We see a memory of several weavers talking

grass is green holy

[cedar skiff]

on first name basis with first sinner

[sinful nimbus]

I would say she's the most important one though

Atla is First Sinner who is implied to be the first Weaver to work on runes

[twin dragon]

very loose evidence on that

but there could be a possibility

[sinful nimbus]

Not really

[fathom hill]

First sinner was the first to use runes?

[twin dragon]

That would also imply that the weavenest was established before the citadel

[sinful nimbus]

Bone Bottom effigy

Carving of Camora, Weaver of healing. A prayer is etched upon it.

"Weaver, heal my sons, their fearful hearts, their limbs that shake at the climb to come. We pray, gift but a glimmer of your strength, that when we stand before your divinity, you see bugs shed free of fear."
Mosshome Weaver tablet
Weaver of Pharloom.
By grace you warded. By thread you healed.
For your favour, eternal, we offer our song.

Shellwood effigy

Carving of Keelal, Weaver of the path. A prayer is etched upon it.

"Blessed Weaver, lady of grace, you who see our sin, our frail shells, our voices weak, and still offer your protection. How great your mind to care so much for ones so lowly."
Shellwood Weaver tablet
Sister, spider, husk bound to branch,
Watch over these bugs, passing safe,
Warded by fear,
No longer your meal.

Slab effigy

Carving of Atla, Weaver of time. A prayer is etched upon it.

"By grace of your example, and our history held full in mind, our song is yours, as your name is sacred. Weaver Atla, may you be praised eternal."
First Sinner entry
Ancient Weaver condemned for a transgression lost to time.

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah?

[twin dragon]

That transgression lost to time is apostasy

[spark valve]

That is when the weavenests were necessary

[twin dragon]

I dont get why it was necessary to hide her sin

even though you can find it written on a tablet

[spark valve]

The sin being declaring the weavers as not divine gee why would the weavers want to hide the specifics of that

[sinful nimbus]

Weavers were venerated as divine entities
First Sinner pulls up saying "Wow we're a buncha liars guys we're Pharlids lmao"
Bad news for the Weavers who want to be in control

[twin dragon]

Well no shit that's why she was imprisoned for

[cedar skiff]

a tablet that is hidden in the ass crack of the slab

its not that obvious

[twin dragon]

its there

nonetheless

and her flashbacks still tell you that openly

[fathom hill]

Normally being vague about those ttansgressions can make the exertion of a punishment bit easily

[cedar skiff]

the people worshipping her wouldnt know that

[frosty gate]

Tf is a random ass bug going to know what the "Silken lie" is

[fathom hill]

which seems to be a pattern now with the slab flies? their sin was also "lost to time"

[twin dragon]

I meant in the hunter's journal

[fathom hill]

which is convenient if you want to maintain a status quo

[twin dragon]

since it's written by hornet

not by pilgrims

[cedar skiff]

also the transgression being lost to time could just mean that people arent being imprisoned for apostasy anymore

[twin dragon]

I really doubt that

[fathom hill]

Don't think so

[twin dragon]

why would they not be imprisoned for apostasy

[spark valve]

It just means nobody remembers it which uh nobody does

[sinful nimbus]

First Sinner is actually an uplifted FLY?

[twin dragon]

She's the first one to get slabbed there so makes sense

[fathom hill]

Would you imagine

[foggy fractal]

🤔

[cedar skiff]

ok yeah that puts it better

[twin dragon]

We don't see many weaver remains aside from the ones in the pedestal

[twin dragon]

fly and rune in the same sentence

[fathom hill]

flies mentioned!!1!1

[twin dragon]

atla is first sinner and a fly aswell!!!!

and she's

also void!!!

[fathom hill]

waow

[silk dirge]

lost sinner canon

[twin dragon]

because starpengu loves void

[fathom hill]

and flies

prime slab fly apologist im sure

[fathom hill]

I'm sure there was a name for this

like a law that technically still holds but has been forgotten by the culture

Huhhh

[spark valve]

I mean apostasy is probably still a sin

I mean what was forgotten was fs’s specific transgression

[twin dragon]

Yed

Yes

[fathom hill]

No apostasy is defo still a sin

[twin dragon]

It wouldnt make sense if it wasn't

[fathom hill]

as long as the citadel keeps on being this holy place

[steep ridge]

tbf anything is a sin with the citadel

[fathom hill]

dying is a sin

ain't that fun

[steep ridge]

hey I'm not seeing any bugs dying and staying dead it must be working

[fathom hill]

which again, how convenient

[spark valve]

It was probably the intent

[twin dragon]

Tbf i dont rlly get why some people think that the weavers did their shit separately

[fathom hill]

How are we supposed to know if they were trial fairly if we forgot the specific transgression right?

[twin dragon]

They had one common goal

[fathom hill]

yah

[cedar skiff]

cuz its shown in game

[steep ridge]

just because they had a common goal doesn't mean they communicated

[fathom hill]

I'd guess the weavenests leave that impression

there were "different" weavers in the sense that they thought of different solutions

[twin dragon]

Id assume they would

[fathom hill]

Though I'm guessing that in reality they were a mixed group

[snow sonnet]

At one point they said fucknit and grand gate sends you to underworks

[fathom hill]

given how weavers that fled with Herrah to hallownest seemed to have different objectives there

[steep ridge]

mmm love me some capitalism

[twin dragon]

They seem pretty united in their goals and interests

[cedar skiff]

the real question is what the fuck does the wormways weavenest even do

[mighty parcel]

Why is Bell Beats tied up in silk exactly?

[sinful nimbus]

Crazy how even the omnipotent narrator is dissing the moulds for no reason

[steep ridge]

worms :)

[fathom hill]

That's what I'm saying

[sinful nimbus]

"Tortured mix of soul and void" 😭

[twin dragon]

Just because there are different weavenests doesnt mean there were a few groups that did their own shit

[fathom hill]

their methods were different but the group was all the same

[twin dragon]

Separately

[fathom hill]

Againz the group that went to hallownest had weavers that still thought on their liberation while Herrah wasn't on board with it

or at least Hornet's part in it

[rough ingot]

Nearly get invaded by plasmium

[fathom hill]

Which is a more personal thing than what Herrah could have believed maybe

with gms and the weavers as a whole

[twin dragon]

Youd think that for such megaproject as the citadel, youd have everyone making it

[rough ingot]

i mean, with the weavers maniupulation if sulk

[fathom hill]

Oh this is believe

[twin dragon]

Herrah could take leadership after they fled

[fathom hill]

I don't think the weavers left before the citadel was built

But maybe I'm missing something

[twin dragon]

Starpengu affirms that only of weavenest cindril left

The rest "died"

[steep ridge]

I agree, that's how I read it at least

[twin dragon]

No shit, thats not what im talking abt

[fathom hill]

Huh?

[twin dragon]

Brb

[rough ingot]

herrah married like the king of deepnest or smth thats why she got power

then the king died before he could give herrah an heir

[fathom hill]

I mean

what do we know

maybe the weavers did select herrah to be their representative

Or herrah was special because of her ability to have children

[steep ridge]

they noted herrah looked different and decided she was their queen

[fathom hill]

or maybe herrah was stronger or something and just volunteered

who's to say

[rough ingot]

or a reddit speculator said she was a drapemite weaver

[steep ridge]

all weavers can have children, it's just super difficult

[steep ridge]

drapemite herrah is the funniest shit of all time

[frosty gate]

Herrah didn't look different prior to having Hornet, presumably

[rough ingot]

but we dont know

[sinful nimbus]

who presuming that dawg 😭

[steep ridge]

what

[fathom hill]

I'm tying this with my belief that the weavers like herrah are the one to be able to

[rough ingot]

also take note that deepnest weavers look quite different from pharlid weavers

[twin dragon]

Drapemite aint even a pharlid

[cedar skiff]

please no more herrah design discourse

[steep ridge]

it's an arachnid

[fathom hill]

giving she was the apparent brood mother (?) of deepnest

[twin dragon]

Thats just artstyle differences

[steep ridge]

mites are arachnids

[fathom hill]

but old lore talk really

[frosty gate]

I mean we don't know Herrah had all that before, all weavers look the same, I don't really know why Herrah would be the exception

[fathom hill]

and fleas are fluffy dogs in this game

[rough ingot]

even in red memory

[spark valve]

Deepnest weavers look like normal weavers

[sinful nimbus]

And I don't know why giving birth would add horns

[rough ingot]

No shoulders like first sinner

[sinful nimbus]

Doesn't really seem like an idea that has any grounds

[fathom hill]

just little

[spark valve]

They don’t all have that

[steep ridge]

ftr I don't actually think herrah is an ascended drapemite I just think it's funny to think about

[rough ingot]

if you want any tandom idea approved, ask reddit

[frosty gate]

Honestly, neither do I.
I have no idea why the hell Herrah looks different, but considering all weavers look the same, something happened there

[sinful nimbus]

I only frequent the team cherry hate sub sorry

[rough ingot]

ahh its fine

[cedar skiff]

chatgpt please generate me a theory that hollow knight subreddits will love!

[fathom hill]

I just hear that argument a whole lot and I don't like it, cuz this game is already really lenient with their bug anatomy and interpretation

[frosty gate]

Oh wait, is it because I said the birth thing? I don't really know if that's what changed Herrah or not

[rough ingot]

widow’s hips, using the unused mask snap sprite

[frosty gate]

My point is she just shouldn't look different

[frosty gate]

Keyword, unusued

[rough ingot]

Yea, but even without the mask

[cedar skiff]

ari didnt look at a reference when drawing her for silksong 💔

[fathom hill]

if tc ever decided that herrah is different because of that reason it wouldn't matter if there's a distinction between arachnids and spiders

[fathom hill]

7 years btw

[rough ingot]

herrah IS a weaver, cuz hornet is half weaver half wyrm, we know pk is wyrm so herrah must be weaver

[sinful nimbus]

Nothing matters when TC decides something

[fathom hill]

yah ik

[sinful nimbus]

They can do whatever they want

[cedar skiff]

https://tenor.com/view/guy-in-bath-toys-gif-11994976550362590797

[sinful nimbus]

I don't think this is a very convincing line of thought

[foggy fractal]

yes, following up on this we see Weavers having a multitude of different spike combinations

[steep ridge]

idk I'm not that miffed about retcons lol

[frosty gate]

Which one, you didn't reply to anything

[spark valve]

TC literally changed the design to look more like other weavers

[cedar skiff]

where the fuck is that first one btw

[fathom hill]

something something Lace being a perfect child is gms compensating cuz she sucks at making life

[rough ingot]

soul snare i think

[spark valve]

Atla

[sinful nimbus]

Bistec's

[cedar skiff]

ohhh

[fathom hill]

note that the armless weavers were tasked to play the harp

[foggy fractal]

Weavenest Atla needolin memory

[fathom hill]

Gms was just an asshole

[steep ridge]

gms deserved everything that happened to her for this

[ember river]

Weavers aren't armless

[frosty gate]

I mean yes, but they still look alike

[fathom hill]

what did i say

[fathom hill]

some are

[steep ridge]

I can excuse the slavery but I draw the line at blatant ableism

[sinful nimbus]

i was responding to this

[foggy fractal]

also the ever elusive alive Weaver appearing in weaver's den

[cedar skiff]

the weavers are worse than gms

[ember river]

They use their limbs interchangeably, they developed guns and shit

[steep ridge]

trash vs garbage

[spark valve]

Everyone is bad

[rough ingot]

surveyor boran

[cedar skiff]

the infamous Weaver Cindril

[fathom hill]

then why do some have only stumps were their arms would be

[sinful nimbus]

HK is ugly af dawg

Wtf is this

[ember river]

Servitor Boran was another application of their technology

[fathom hill]

why do some have 6 arms and some 2 or 4

[cedar skiff]

new crackpot theory

[rough ingot]

yea, and so was the weaver silkshot

[fathom hill]

And Herrah has 8

[cedar skiff]

were powerscaling the crimes now

[frosty gate]

Don't they all got 6?

[ember river]

The weaver silkshot is actually wielded though

[fathom hill]

Like the numbers are still inconsistent

[rough ingot]

first sinner has 8, visible at some point

[spark valve]

Go look at HK bees and ask that with a straight face

[mild adder]

NUH UH Pale king did nothing wrong

[frosty gate]

Herrah is weird as a whole

[foggy fractal]

well yeah hollow knight's art was very rushed

[fathom hill]

Yah Herrah is an outlier but she is still weaver

[sinful nimbus]

Hey guys do you think Slave Owner 1 is better than Slave Owner 2

[fathom hill]

she was ascensed by gms all the same

[fathom hill]

I'm sure some silhouette show the same build first sinner had

[rough ingot]

uhh, radiance did a lota the wrong, but no cost to great was a bit extreme. The void experiments werent great either

[cedar skiff]

i dont like the weavers therefore they are worse

[frosty gate]

"Well I think hiroshima was better than nagasaki you know?"

[fathom hill]

We could say, oh but first sinner was mutilated by her imprisonment but it doesn't seem to be the case

[rough ingot]

radiance or gms whos worse

[sinful nimbus]

Rad is a lot more overtly malicious she was also more destructive

[steep ridge]

the memory kinda proves she just looks like that

[foggy fractal]

speaking of weavers
we don't see them having filled out white eyes anymore, grrr tc and their retcons !

[rough ingot]

well, she deserved ending up in the knight’s basement

[fathom hill]

Yah

[steep ridge]

0/10

[rough ingot]

i noticed that, idk why tho

[sinful nimbus]

unplayable garbage

[frosty gate]

You will need to show me when

[fathom hill]

she has 4 legs so gms was just inconsistent with her limb count

[steep ridge]

this game sucks, 7 years for this?

[rough ingot]

start of 2nd phase, when she screams and her skirt flies up

[fathom hill]

widow also is missing a pair im sure

[ember river]

Or, you know, weavers have widely different body configurations as we can clearly see while still being capable of doing the same stuff

[frosty gate]

Well, that actually is just an art choice, I like it more like that

[rough ingot]

ik right

shouodnt she have 4

[fathom hill]

It could be, obviously I'm mostly joking

[rough ingot]

or widow got a pair cut off

[fathom hill]

But that is again the fact that gms wasn't consistent with her limb count

[ember river]

The great art choice that I like vs the wretched retcon that I despise

[fathom hill]

which who knows why was that

[rough ingot]

all if them should ve visible

yea all 8

[steep ridge]

is retcon like a dirty word here

[fathom hill]

Specially how GMS herself has eight "limbs"

[rough ingot]

yes

[steep ridge]

ooo retcon ooo

[fathom hill]

No

[foggy fractal]

first sinner has 4 legs and 4 arms it seems

[rough ingot]

in her like spectral or nonphysical form ish

[fathom hill]

just a boring subject cuz the discussion kind of falls flat

[sinful nimbus]

Saying retcon is like breathing to me

[fathom hill]

oh we know

[rough ingot]

well, we can argue about 4th chorus’s poor coordination

[ember river]

I love "extended" forms on divine beings in media

[rough ingot]

pale king drawings unde the cloak

[steep ridge]

I hate discussing retcons with anything it ends up feeling tedious no matter what

[frosty gate]

Ok wait, Spiders have 8, I think that's the normal one

[fathom hill]

Oh she did have eight

[sinful nimbus]

Not on the hater grindset

[frosty gate]

So widow is the odd one out?

[ember river]

Pale King's original form is far more impressive than any transformation he could accomplish

[fathom hill]

I'll never let myself be convinced of anything again

[rough ingot]

and hornet ig

[frosty gate]

Of the pure ones

[cedar skiff]

i think the herrah design discussions are hysterical because somehow it always loops back to people arguing about how many limbs the weavers have without fail

[ember river]

Hornet isn't a full weaver

[fathom hill]

yah, like the second you say retcon it's like, ok so you don't want to discuss this?

just brush it off as retcon

[ember river]

Sometimes it devolves into spikes and masks

[steep ridge]

weavers have however many limbs is convenient at the time

[rough ingot]

i think thats just pale king’s genes

[cedar skiff]

they retconned the legs? seven years for this slop?

[sinful nimbus]

Its not not wanting to discuss it its literally calling it as it is

[steep ridge]

gms also gave weavers secret limb powers whens she ascended them

[sinful nimbus]

Like for Herrah realistically the only real answer can give is that its an unexplained retcon

[frosty gate]

Actually they're supposed to have 6, the other two are actually because the pic is ai gen, i can tell 🤓

[sinful nimbus]

That's not a bad thing its wtv

[ember river]

Can't believe they changed a one-off crude design when they're going to be prominently featured

[tepid mountain]

I mean if it’s a retcon, that means the devs didn’t plan any lore behind the change, so there’s not much to discuss lore-wise. Outside of just making stuff up.

[fathom hill]

Oh i believe that when its too obvious its fine to a degree

[ember river]

People associate retcon with bad writing for some reason

[fathom hill]

like it's a fact of the thing you're discussing

[sinful nimbus]

Well its never ideal

[rough ingot]

no pharlids also had miltiple limbs i think

[steep ridge]

whether a retcon is good or bad depends on the person and that's why I hate it so much

[twin dragon]

Its a good retcon

[sinful nimbus]

In the ideal world Herrah was always a Weaver in HK but she wasn't which kinda hurts the quality of the lore a bit

[twin dragon]

Retcons just a word that gets thrown around

[ember river]

It's not ideal but in stories told over so many years sometimes it's for the better

[twin dragon]

Yeah

[fathom hill]

Yah like everything is a retcon

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah

[fathom hill]

like the hive thing gets called a retcon but I don't see it

[ember river]

What hive thing?

[frosty gate]

Because this fucking ass language makes people overuse certain words to the point the lose all meaning because english fucking sucks

[sinful nimbus]

Hivesteel?

[cedar skiff]

hivesteel…

[steep ridge]

real

[sinful nimbus]

Hivesteel is a wonky af addition to the lore that we never observed even when we should've I feel comfortable calling that a retcon

[fathom hill]

ik they discarded the "daughter of three queens" thing for a while but yknow

[twin dragon]

Fs is kinda dead sooo

[fathom hill]

they never retconned anything durectly

[ember river]

Hornet having a superb hivesteel needle while Hive Knight fights you with a sharp stick

[sinful nimbus]

3Q is awkward with established lore at best

[cedar skiff]

tbh i don’t understand why hivesteel needs to connect hornet to the hive more than she already is

[twin dragon]

Special steel!!!! Retcon!!!!1!11

[fathom hill]

Hivesteel as said, and how the hive wasn't sealed off (totally) to hallownest, giving Hornet was there

[frosty gate]

By definition it is, unfortunately, a retcon

[ornate pier]

Who said it aint a hivesteel stick though

[fathom hill]

It gets called retcon but I don't see it

[steep ridge]

oh my god...

[ornate pier]

Even if it wasn't intended beforehand it doesn't really conflict with anything

[foggy fractal]

anyway on the topic of weavers, it seems like they should have 8 legs, though some sprites show only 6
widow is the outlier it seems given that she's only ever shown with 6, 4 legs and 2 arms, what does this mean for the lore... did they rip off her arms ?!!?

[ornate pier]

You can say hive knight is using hivesteel and it makes sense

[ember river]

Wait what does that contradict?

[twin dragon]

Weve never had established lore about hornets needle soo

[steep ridge]

yeah I don't see how it's a retcon

[ornate pier]

Oh wait his stick doesn't even look metal

[sinful nimbus]

I could see it

[frosty gate]

Before I send my message, how the hell you quote like that? With the bar on the left

[steep ridge]

super thin metal

[ornate pier]

Well he still has cool armor so thas clesrly hivesteel.

[ember river]

Also a LOT of people assume the absence of evidence is evidence of absence

[fathom hill]

I assumed that gms was inconsistent with the limb count cuz her ascension of bugs was already messy

[frosty gate]

Thanks

[sinful nimbus]

Hive Knight wearing metal and the Hive being renowned for its steelwork is pretty different

[ember river]

So something not being mentioned inherently means it didn't happen

[steep ridge]

amen to that

[sinful nimbus]

Its definitely a wonky awkward addition to the lore that raised an eyebrow when I saw it

[cedar skiff]

here before city of steel dlc retcons hive lore

[frosty gate]

Retroactive continuity, or retcon for short, is a literary device in fictional story telling whereby facts and events established through the narrative are adjusted, ignored, supplemented, or contradicted by a subsequently published work that recontextualizes or breaks continuity with the former.[2]

There are various motivations for applying retroactive continuity, including:

To accommodate desired aspects of sequels or derivative works which would otherwise be ruled out.
To respond to negative fan reception of previous stories.
To correct and overcome errors or problems identified in the prior work since its publication.
To change or clarify how the prior work should be interpreted.
To match reality, when assumptions or projections of the future are later proven wrong.[Note 1]

Literal definition of retcons

[fathom hill]

Giving how reproduction is also fucked up I just assumed gms fucked up their biology somehow

so no wonder a lack of limbs

But who's to say

[steep ridge]

gms is fucked up what else is new

[frosty gate]

I mean, considering she just force-evolved them, yeah, that fucks up bodies probably

[ember river]

Imagine if the city of steel was just a blast furnace on a human-sized iron mine so they have a pretty much endless supply of steel

[rough ingot]

not much

[mighty parcel]

IS Crawfather a name or title?

[ember river]

I swear discussions in this channel will, provided enough, time, invariably loop back to weaver biology

[ember river]

Seems like a title to me

[rough ingot]

title

like shade lord is definelty a title but thats all we got

[cedar skiff]

silk fucks with reproducing 🤔 💭 thats why gms had to uplift bugs to have daughters/straight up make them out of silk 🤔 💭 and why the weavers struggle with reproduction 🤔 💭

[rough ingot]

and basically every other higher being too ig

[rough ingot]

and they all hate her

[abstract rivet]

hello silkologists

[fathom hill]

Honestly not a bad idea

[rough ingot]

hi

[ember river]

The Pale King's true name is Carlos

[cedar skiff]

cursed by silk the silken curse 🤔 💭

[ornate pier]

We should talk about something less contested like Phantom's gender!

[abstract rivet]

what topic are yall nerdint about

[fathom hill]

Silk does affect biology to make one immortal (and other stuff)

[rough ingot]

shade lord is Bill

[steep ridge]

oh my god bruh

[rough ingot]

weaver biology

[fathom hill]

bug sex

yet again

[ember river]

Technically the only higher being we know the actual name of is Unn

And Silk I guess

[rough ingot]

actuallytrue

[rough ingot]

but grand mother silk

[ember river]

Silk is her name and Grand Mother is her title

[fathom hill]

Oh yeah ig White lady never told Hornet her true name

[rough ingot]

yea but with white lady, pale king, radiance i supoose coukd be a name

[fathom hill]

Hornet just calls her lady (?) I'm sure

[rough ingot]

i think so

[ember river]

I don't think HBs really care all that much about normal names

They are satisfied as long as they can be identified

[cedar skiff]

am i crazy or doesnt gms refer to herself as a collective we at some point

[rough ingot]

No not really, and they cant really speak either

[rough ingot]

Ive never seen that

[fathom hill]

Pale king i understand since he was already quite sheltered and didn't interact with anyone except thk and his wife

wouldn't be the type to disclose a name

[rough ingot]

basically yea

[sinful nimbus]

Many times

[rough ingot]

even before the infection

[fossil ledge]

She does

[fathom hill]

But i wonder why white lady never cared for it

Maybe Hornet never asked

[sinful nimbus]

Royal we type thing

[ember river]

When?

[sinful nimbus]

Silk heart dialogue

[fossil ledge]

During the Silk Heart sequences

[cedar skiff]

yeah i just looked at the silk hearts again

[ember river]

Ah

[fathom hill]

The first silk heart says "see us wake" or something

[rough ingot]

ah

[fathom hill]

the one with the huhhh

bell beast

[rough ingot]

I didnt care about act 1 lore i feel so dumb now

[fathom hill]

But silk hearts are also memories(??) of sorts?

so who knows who is she talking to

Some say she is saying that to Hornet directly

[cedar skiff]

a little bit of talking to yourself never hurt anybody

[fathom hill]

And I'm willing to believe it but silk hearts are weird

[steep ridge]

first one only makes sense for hornet, other 2 are also obvious

[rough ingot]

yea, like binding a being grants you a skill in the form of memories

[ember river]

By the way, do you think that Hornet talks to the White Lady in real time during the Red Memory?

[rough ingot]

possibly

[fathom hill]

I could believe it

[fossil ledge]

She says Child Weaver... Child Spider...

Not sure who else this could be but Hornet

[abstract rivet]

White Lady hijacks the memory

[fathom hill]

That would mean the white lady is still alive and i like that idea

[steep ridge]

obv bell beast

[ember river]

They also persist in some way within her mind, according to some dialogue with eva

[fathom hill]

and would make sense for her immortality

[abstract rivet]

she knows what Hornets doing

[fathom hill]

Also means that hallownest prolly didn't just fall in a void apocalypse of sorts

[steep ridge]

great now the root is omniscient

[rough ingot]

possibly, but not in the same way, Eva just wants to stop being along i guess. When hornet binds GMs, ppl speculate she goes mad

[abstract rivet]

cant confirm for sure

[rough ingot]

which root, twisted bud or lady

[fathom hill]

yah yah

[ember river]

Well if you poke into a god's mind expect to be poked back

[fathom hill]

or flower

[steep ridge]

lady, not being serious btw

[abstract rivet]

We can’t confirm exactly however, white lady is very isolated.

[rough ingot]

well, there is proof that the shade lord is tangibly there

[ember river]

I never took EtV as the void destroying Hallownest as much as a new source popping up, and the abyss rising up to the waterways

[abstract rivet]

same

[fathom hill]

Oh it could be

[visual glacier]

What’s the discussion? Canon ending again?

[rough ingot]

well, the knight has no reason to destroy hallownest, minus the primal aspids and their dad’s house

[ember river]

Alternatively, that lashing void is the form the Godseeker takes after attunement

[cedar skiff]

i never took etv as a meaningful or in any way relevant to the story ending

[limpid summit]

I mean the void in the waterways would probably sink back to the abyss just like DnM

[fathom hill]

I think it was star that brought up the fact that the vines in the cinematic turn dark in the non flower ending

[visual glacier]

White palace is already in ruins

[steep ridge]

hype moments and aura to show how much potential the knight has

[ember river]

The most meaningful event of EtV is the original Hollow Knight being around

[foggy fractal]

I mean void popped out of the black egg too during dnm and we just see it seeping away
I don't see why the knight is suddenly evil and wants to void all over the place in etv

[fathom hill]

Which could mean either just the infection going away, or the infection getting a voided coat

like the haunting gets in act 3

[abstract rivet]

void probably just wants to rest they probably dipped

[limpid summit]

When I spend an entire game learning about how important it is to break free of the cycle of hatred and regret only to keep THK alive ❤️‍🩹

[visual glacier]

That doesn’t make sense

[ember river]

Nah, the infection dies dies

[steep ridge]

because the shade lord is controlling them and making them do mean things :(

[ember river]

You OBLITERATE the Radiance

[limpid summit]

The vines are just dead vines they ain’t void vins

[visual glacier]

The blackthreading happened because the silk is made of soul

[limpid summit]

We see void vines in the abyss

[abstract rivet]

void is like minecraft its simple but is kinda really deep for those who wanna get into it

wait what am I saying

[foggy fractal]

erm... source ?? 😎

[ember river]

Meanwhile the void threads exist because GMS is still alive and resisting

[steep ridge]

what is this analogy

[abstract rivet]

i just typed to type

[cedar skiff]

when i miss half the games story and go to the dumpster to do some bullshit

[steep ridge]

it was revealed to me in a vision

[ember river]

We don't even know if the Shade Lord is a different entity to the Knight

[fathom hill]

I think it's more tied with the fact that the goddess inside is lashing out

[rough ingot]

also the void sea is probably really angry someone dropped an angry god in it that refuses to die

[steep ridge]

it isn't

[fossil ledge]

The Knight as the Lord of Shades didn't wreak havoc on Hallownest before, so no reason it would do this while ascended, right?

[ember river]

The void just eats away, it doesn't really care

[fathom hill]

But yeah it being made of soul is a fair argument

[ember river]

Source

[rough ingot]

no its got the mind of the knight, the shade lord clearly cuts the void tendrils in the act 3 ending

[abstract rivet]

Stupid Fraud Mother Silk resisted the void so we had to do an another unskippable ad (act 3)

so desperate for control

[steep ridge]

void idol statues

[fathom hill]

Fair

[rough ingot]

no to save her child

[visual glacier]

The HOG statues go from tk -> tk-> shade lord

[fathom hill]

If we just kill the radiance theres not a chance she could be lashing out

[steep ridge]

also the abyss chozo statue guy

[abstract rivet]

i know lol

[rough ingot]

to void given form then shade lord

[fossil ledge]

Void Given Focus

[visual glacier]

Void given form is the night

[rough ingot]

fine fine

[abstract rivet]

Void Given Weaver

[ember river]

The void idol statues that depict various forms of the knight and then changes to the shade lord is, if anything, evidence supporting they're the same thing

[rough ingot]

basically yea

[rough ingot]

why

[abstract rivet]

what if we combined.. root and void?

[rough ingot]

basically, yes

[fossil ledge]

Void Given Focus also has the same horns as the Knight

[abstract rivet]

Void and Lifeblood mix would be crazy

[steep ridge]

wait let's backtrack a moment are we agreeing here

[rough ingot]

similar yes, the same, no, adult form, probably

[fathom hill]

abyss creature

[rough ingot]

no focus is the shade lord form is the knight

[fathom hill]

dude just chillin

[ember river]

You answered that the knight and Void Given Focus were different creatures

[fossil ledge]

They're not identical, but very similar to the Knight's shade's horns

[visual glacier]

You mixed them up

[rough ingot]

do hall of gods

[abstract rivet]

Shade Lord and Lord of Shades mean the same shit in english dictionary fuck you team blueberry couldn’t you come up with a better naming scheme

[steep ridge]

I might've misread your initial message

[visual glacier]

Void given focus is the ETV

[ember river]

Nah, Focus is EtV

[foggy fractal]

yes the knight would have no reason to and there's nothing suggesting that their mind changed due to the events of godhome

[ember river]

Probably lol, happens

[abstract rivet]

bro fumbled

[rough ingot]

its fine, team cherry called them too similar words

[abstract rivet]

Isn’t shade lord meaning lord of shades what the fuck team cherry

[rough ingot]

also the original name for void given focus was void given mind, but the knight already had a mind

[abstract rivet]

I had always slept with the thought of ts

[rough ingot]

basically yea

[fossil ledge]

Shade Lord is just the file names for the Void Given Focus

[ember river]

They should have named the second form void given shape so we can abreviate to VGS and VGF

[steep ridge]

void given even more mind

[rough ingot]

anf the sprite names

[abstract rivet]

the knight in void heart form is just a shade with tentacles smh

[visual glacier]

Shade lord isn’t a canon name

[abstract rivet]

yeah i dont think it is

its just fanon

[ember river]

And willing control over the void

[steep ridge]

shade lord vs lord of shades is such a stupid distinction I hate this

[ember river]

It is the filename so it's handy for specifying

Sometimes

[abstract rivet]

It’s referred as Void Entity in the wiki i dont think theres a clear name for that big monster

[rough ingot]

longer tentacles

[visual glacier]

Just call it void given focus

[fathom hill]

what's the distinction

[fossil ledge]

Exactly. We also see in Sisters of the Void ending that even as a shade it doesn't wreak havoc

[rough ingot]

ik right

[tepid mountain]

Not if it causes so much confusion with lord of shades.

[ember river]

Honestly god of gods is much cooler than shade lord

[fathom hill]

god of gods just edgy

[steep ridge]

one is void given focus and the other is the knight in general after void heart

[rough ingot]

until you consider the godseekers called the radiance that before the shade lord

[visual glacier]

But ABSRAD is also the god of gods before ETV

[fossil ledge]

God of Gods is unfortunately just a title the Godseekers give to their supreme god. It was the Radiance before the Void Given Focus

[ember river]

Yeah, I think the term just meant the highest deity they pursued

[fathom hill]

I'm confused why are they different?

[rough ingot]

good idea

[visual glacier]

Yes

[abstract rivet]

Lord of Shades - Void Heart
Void Given Form - Dream No More
Void Given Focus - Embrace The Void

[fathom hill]

cuz of the form of the knight before the ending?

[visual glacier]

Yeah

Auto correct is weird

[fathom hill]

where are we getting these names from

the charms?

[abstract rivet]

void statues and the uhh

[rough ingot]

also still very hard to see what it looks like lol

[visual glacier]

Void cloak statue

[ember river]

Lord of Shades from dreamnail dialogue with the void fountain bug

The other two from the hall of gods statue

[fathom hill]

Oh cool

had no idea

[abstract rivet]

There’s no such thing as Shade Lord then its just fanon

[tepid mountain]

Yes.

[abstract rivet]

Shade Lord as in referring to P5

[ember river]

Shade Lord is a file name

[rough ingot]

its pulled from sprite names chich team cherry probably wanted us to see

[fathom hill]

Scoot said it was in the files?

the name

[rough ingot]

ive seen the sprite, gosh is it long

[visual glacier]

????

[steep ridge]

what is this convo even about we're just going in circles

[fathom hill]

Yah yah

[rough ingot]

its in the files and sprite sheets

[visual glacier]

Why would TC want us to see that name

[fossil ledge]

No point in using file names when we have canon names though

[rough ingot]

cuz its very dramatic

and also quirrel death nail

[random harbor]

Dream Nail: The Abyss - Shade Beast - "...Lord of Shades..."

...Lord of Shades...

@glorkishjames used /dream-nail area: The Abyss name: Shade Beast - "...Lord of Shades..."

[ember river]

I just call it "focus form" if I don't want to write the full thing

[fossil ledge]

That's fair

[rough ingot]

whic one

[fathom hill]

Oh cool

[ember river]

Void Given Focus

[rough ingot]

Okie

cus focus and form is kinda ambiguous

[ember river]

Oh shit that is true

[fathom hill]

Ig the distinction is really for the forms the knight can take giving how much they "embrace" the void?

[visual glacier]

It or they

[rough ingot]

or we can call it the void entity which is probably alright based on details visually

[fathom hill]

giving how the void seems to be an amalgamation of a lot of things already

[visual glacier]

It’s not

[fathom hill]

it slips me sometimes

[visual glacier]

It’s just void

[ember river]

I assumed it was for the amount of power provided by the Godseekers' atunement

[fossil ledge]

Void Given Focus is the Knight at the peak of its state, tuned to the core of dream and mind by the Godseeker's ritual, same as Absolute Radiance

[fathom hill]

yah but it's not uniform if it's bound to have a focus by the end

[rough ingot]

yea, since shade lord only appears when the whole screen floods with void, or in the void sea

[fossil ledge]

Void Given Form is the Knight's shade possessing Void Heart

[visual glacier]

The knight is a mix of root, wyrm and void

[rough ingot]

and yet is uses it to cut the void tendrils rushing at hornet

[ember river]

Would you consider VGForm a Higher Being btw?

[rough ingot]

absolutely

[fathom hill]

Unless you say it's given focus by forging its will

[fossil ledge]

Yes, the Knight with Void Heart is a higher being

[fathom hill]

void being more of a unruly substance

[visual glacier]

I would

[visual glacier]

A bit of a leap

[fathom hill]

It slips me sometimes

[fossil ledge]

Not really, even Bardoon says so

[visual glacier]

You already said that

[rough ingot]

i mean, its capable of obliterating a higher being

[visual glacier]

Would you say hornet by herself is a higher being

[fathom hill]

i have dementia

[ember river]

For that to happen a lot more power has to be pumped in

[fathom hill]

Also I'm responding to a lotta stuff

[fossil ledge]

I would not, but Hornet doesn't posses the ability to command all silk or all soul

[rough ingot]

not really, i dont think its genetic but power based

[visual glacier]

It’s not all void either

[fossil ledge]

The void it chooses to

[ember river]

But yes, at its peak it's insanely strong, the only being we know of capable of outright killing Higher Beings by itself

[fossil ledge]

To the limits of what Void Heart allow

[fathom hill]

she defo is to an extent

[rough ingot]

as opposed to binding them or dragging them into the shade lord’s basement

[fathom hill]

Or what i believe is she has the potential to

[visual glacier]

I think hornet is higher and pale but not a higher being

[ember river]

Not until she ascends

[visual glacier]

Weaver queen is a higher being

[abstract rivet]

are Flukes basically the muckmaggots of hollow knight except they’re less seen

[fossil ledge]

Weaver Queen definitely is a higher being

[ember river]

She has some qualities but she'd pass more as a demigod

[fathom hill]

given by the weaver queen ending is her embracing her pale heritage

[ember river]

Hornet does bind GMS to ascend into full godhood though

[rough ingot]

yea, cuz pv is made of 2, but you can argue even 3 gods

[abstract rivet]

weaver queen binds an higher being to a demigod its defo an hb

[ember river]

Also binding isn't exactly killing

[abstract rivet]

Its fusion

[fathom hill]

Someone said that what happens to her HUD once she becomes weaver queen is what a proper higher being looks like

[rough ingot]

yes, but is that really killing gms, her memories live on inside hornet

[visual glacier]

Source

[fathom hill]

rn Hornet is not that strong yet but has the potential to

[ember river]

It is not

[olive quartz]

hornet seems to describe higher beings exclusively from the outside

Your kingdom is in the thrall of a creature beyond bug, one of that higher caste.

[rough ingot]

and dragging radiance into the void sea isnt either, but radiance prob dies in there

[fossil ledge]

Hornet binds GMS

[ember river]

Binding is not killing

[fossil ledge]

We know what binding entails

[fathom hill]

Though weaver queen is her binding gms so it could be different

[abstract rivet]

She lives inside Hornet just not an independent mind similarly to Eva is my head cannon

[visual glacier]

I’m aware

[visual glacier]

No

[fossil ledge]

What do you mean no lol

[rough ingot]

it isnttttt

[visual glacier]

Hornet bound widow too and didn’t gain her memories

[olive quartz]

...she kinda did?

[fossil ledge]

She did though

[ember river]

VGForm isn't strong enough to obliterate the Radiance by itself but it can defeat her and drag her down to be "digested"

[rough ingot]

why does eva ask to be bound and not killed

[visual glacier]

She didn’t

[olive quartz]

we see at least one of widow's memories

[rough ingot]

Yes

[visual glacier]

She just looked into her memory a little bit

[ember river]

Ultimately the Radiance is erased in both DNM and ETV

[olive quartz]

that's... seeing her memories

[fathom hill]

her ability to play the needolin is her taking widows memories

[fossil ledge]

We see Widow's memories playing the melody for GMS and that's also how Hornet learns the Needolin skill

[fathom hill]

how do you think she learns to do these abilities so fast

[visual glacier]

She didn’t gain her memories

She saw them

[olive quartz]

this is a pointless semantic distinction

[ember river]

Theere is a mention of something similar when it's time to bind Eva

The refusal dialogue is quite interesting

[fathom hill]

Yah

[olive quartz]

Only to have my own soul, my own memories, bound within your shell... As you have done with those others throughout these lands.

[fathom hill]

Like that's what i think happens with weaver queen

She bound something so strong ahe lost her identity

[rough ingot]

cuz hirnet doesnt break the cycle and free pharloom

[fathom hill]

weaver queen may not be the hornet we know

[visual glacier]

Her soul and memories turn into sylphsong

[olive quartz]

having memories 'bound within her shell' is gaining the memories by any reasonable definition of gain

[rough ingot]

like look at her crest

[ember river]

I don't think she loses her identity, but becomes something else, fully giving into her wyrm instincts

[visual glacier]

Exactly

[ember river]

So she basically throws out all her gadgets that aren't saws or spikes

[rough ingot]

her pale instincts

[fathom hill]

No but I'm tying it with the eva refuse dialogue

She says she will lose herself no?

[ember river]

Yeah, into her power hunger

[fathom hill]

Maybe it's a trade, someone suffers ego death

[rough ingot]

“Prove yourself more weaver then wyrm” Hornet: Launches buzzsaw

[rough ingot]

power hunger is also weaver tho

[olive quartz]

that is part of herself

[fathom hill]

Eva does suffer ego death when she is bound to Hornet

Hornet says that her mind will be no more

[olive quartz]

binding GMS overwrites her identity entirely with grand mother silk's

[ember river]

And she tries to resist it

[visual glacier]

What

[ember river]

That's pretty dumb

[olive quartz]

consider that no other crest changes the way hornet's masks look

[visual glacier]

Her body does become more like gms, with her gaining 8 more arms but there’s no proof

[rough ingot]

why act 3 exists

[cedar skiff]

so close that’s actually strung to serve

[visual glacier]

Are you thinking of strung to serve rn

That’s not canon

[rough ingot]

ppl also say she gets taller

[fathom hill]

I'm talking abt a more tangible thing, when bidning one of the subjects is bound to lose their identity. It's a trade for thw action itself

[olive quartz]

strung to serve is gms binding (essentially) hornet

[visual glacier]

That’s not canon

[ember river]

Maybe her becoming a nigh immortal higher being has something to do

[visual glacier]

It’s cut content

[tepid mountain]

Talking about the hp bar.

[fathom hill]

Normally Hornet always ends up on top, but what would happen if she is not able to?

[visual glacier]

That’s not her mask

[fathom hill]

Weaver queen

[cedar skiff]

ok but this design does have aura

[rough ingot]

she probably undergoes metamorphasis

[visual glacier]

It’s not canon though

[ember river]

The HP masks changing reflect that Hornet became a HB

[rough ingot]

thats GMS after binding hornet

[olive quartz]

yeah, and hornet is only barely able to keep the twisted bud from taking over her identity

[cedar skiff]

i know that 😭

[rough ingot]

due to her higher being nature

also how powerful does twisted bud get after twisted child evnding

[olive quartz]

well, she describes it as simply because she is strong

[cedar skiff]

genuinely what the fuck does the cursed ending even mean for the story

[ember river]

Pretty fucking strong I'd say

[fathom hill]

Yah strung to serve can be diregarded for now

[cedar skiff]

ive been thinking about this since the game came out

[olive quartz]

also, higher beings like GMS are pretty clearly vulnerable to the parasite when weakened

[fathom hill]

Though we do not know why it was cut

[rough ingot]

hornet’s bright idea

[visual glacier]

Because they ditched bell shrines being important

[cedar skiff]

just what does any of it even mean

[rough ingot]

well, maybe incontentioj with radiance and the void but, not the ancient wyrms

[vestal swan]

Binding GMS doesn't turn her into GMS or erase hornet it activates more of her Weaver DNA and activates the inconsistent arm number gene, it is hilariously both her wyrm transformation that mask maker hinted at and hornet confirmed was around the corner and a weaver one

[rough ingot]

well, void as a maybe

[ember river]

You turned a parasitic witch into a god. Well done! Only time will tell of the horrors to be enacted

[fathom hill]

Elaborate?

[olive quartz]

thematically it means that one cannot simply ignore sexual abuse and 'power through life' because it will come back with a vengeance to tear you down at your highest moment

[rough ingot]

Ask the knight to clean up the mess its fine

[visual glacier]

Bell shrines (the ones to open grand gate) used to have a much larger role, in weakinging grand mother silk

In cut content

[rough ingot]

yea

[fathom hill]

activates more of her weaver dna?

[rough ingot]

if u didnt have them all active, hornet pierces gms in the chest, and gets grabbed

[fathom hill]

what does that have to do with strung to serve though

[visual glacier]

If you didn’t ring enough bells you’d get that ending

[fathom hill]

Do we even know what were the circumstances we would have gotten this ending?

[ember river]

If the Pale King is roughly similar to the average Wyrm (which we don't really have any reason to believe to be the case btw) then Wyrms are, without a doubt, the strongest HBs of the setting, disregarding the Void one

[visual glacier]

Yes

[fathom hill]

Show me

[vestal swan]

She stops looking like hornet and starts looking like a big spider, weaver ass head, more arms (that GMS does not have) etc

[visual glacier]

Wdym show you

[rough ingot]

we dont know much of the shade lord, but we do know wyrms are powerful

[ember river]

The shade lord is just absurd though

[fathom hill]

The leftover code, or where did people found this out

[ember river]

You can't compete against the VGFocus entity

[visual glacier]

Click my discord tag and ask people in the cut content thread

[rough ingot]

Can you though, evernloom

[vestal swan]

Unn >
Also trying to power scale characters we've never even seen much less the ones that aren't even comparable is extremely pointless

[ember river]

Everbloom destroys/absorbs the form the godseeker takes after atunement

[cedar skiff]

thats really good honestly, i enjoy this interpretation

[ember river]

That is not the full extent of the higher being

[rough ingot]

and keeps hornet alive

[visual glacier]

We don’t know that honestly

[rough ingot]

but do we know its extent, it barely shows up

[visual glacier]

All we know is that she and the void disappear

[ember river]

The Pale King is stronger than Unn and worshipped by the Godseekers as such,

[vestal swan]

The flower behaves inconsistently so we have absolutely no clue what's going on

[cedar skiff]

i cant believe theres no void and parasite interactions though

[visual glacier]

There are

[fossil ledge]

I'd argue she still mostly looks like Hornet though, save for the additional arms. She might have gotten bigger too, though this is hard to determine in the few shots we see of her.

The only other thing I can think of is the masks hinting at more eyes, but she gets these while binding GMS and her real eyes don't change, so

[fathom hill]

Link the thread

I'm going blind

[olive quartz]

parasite hates the void if you go down to dive with it

[visual glacier]

https://discord.com/channels/330095365179310091/1420874909650784266

[cedar skiff]

oh really

[fathom hill]

gms has 8 arms too

[visual glacier]

10

[ember river]

I'd be pretty pissed if a higher being who can tear open an empowered radiance like a broken toy and tear her apart with barely any effort dies to a random flower

[visual glacier]

I think

[rough ingot]

the final attack

[cedar skiff]

lameee let the parasite throw hands with tk after lost lace

[rough ingot]

her stringest attack

[vestal swan]

She uses temporary arms for one attack and they aren't present when she's strung up by the void

[fathom hill]

fuck no?

[visual glacier]

Ok hornet gets 10 arms gms has 8

[cedar skiff]

i love this frame

[rough ingot]

she does get the 2nd one back in the endiny

[fathom hill]

it's real cool

[cedar skiff]

so cool

[rough ingot]

i dont see that

maybe just the weaver legs

[visual glacier]

Watch weaver queen again sound up

[vestal swan]

?

[foggy fractal]

she appears to have two arms very briefly when getting sucked up by Hornet for the super leap

[fathom hill]

I wonder if this is Hirnet glancing into a "true form"

[rough ingot]

ok

[fathom hill]

gms is weakened by the song or either still a juvenile to grow I'm sure

whichever

[visual glacier]

Also she loses her left arm but is missing her right in the abyss

[vestal swan]

I think it's just a GMS level silk spell: slap the fuck out of you magic

[fathom hill]

Unknown thread, my fav

[olive quartz]

from a strictly lore perspective though the parasite was presumably lying in wait to infest something even more powerful than hornet, and since that something is a pale being it strongly implies a connection to the white lady who is also a pale tree-thing

[visual glacier]

Join the server in my tag bro

[fathom hill]

huhhhhh

[rough ingot]

like shade lord i guess

[foggy fractal]

yes though tc is just inconsistent with everything, khann's scar on his face ? switches side, the last judge's weapon ? switches side, they just mirror the sprites

[visual glacier]

The HKW next to my name

[fossil ledge]

It was just trying to parasitize passers-by, which we learn from Pavo. Most of these would be pilgrims

[cedar skiff]

yeah i was aware of this i was just curious how people interpreted the ending thematically. the abortion thing i picked up immediately but i didnt ruminate on the ending itself much

[fathom hill]

Fuck me doing homework

[vestal swan]

It wasn't lying in wait for something else it failed to take over hornet, it definitely wouldn't be aiming for something stronger. And the fact that GMS is the eventual target has nothing to do with white lady

[cedar skiff]

but your interpretation is interesting

and ties in well

[fathom hill]

ik what a tag is smartass

[rough ingot]

make a meme: do homework, nah, get in silksong agument: yes!

[olive quartz]

i mean why wouldn't it just leap out from hornet onto a pilgrim