sk-lore

[humble peak]

But she is depicted as being entirely thread, yeah, when bound and when consumed for the final silk soar

[fossil ledge]

Maybe she only "turns into silk" during the binding process?

[sinful nimbus]

Why would that be the case

[humble peak]

but I don't think a black body and being entirely silk are mutually exclusive. Look at Lace and Phantom, both said to be entirely made from Silk but still having black parts of their body

[sinful nimbus]

I mean yeah the face is black

[tepid mountain]

So are the hands.

[muted lantern]

well i mean lace is described as being made entirely of thread and her face is still black

[sinful nimbus]

I'm saying the black body in LL is her being consumed by the void which like duh

Its not there normally

Lace is also black because she's voided

[humble peak]

this has also been brought up, it's not impossible. The process of binding might involve transmuting components into Silk or breaking them down into their base materials, which in the case of GMS would be a fuckton of super extra magic silk

[fossil ledge]

It's kind of weird how it simply disappears when she starts glowing during the silk soar binding process

[muted lantern]

Clearly gms is void is the new hit theory

[timber pond]

lol

[humble peak]

It's very possibly some kind of like
just, shell

[fossil ledge]

I think this is a possibility, yeah

[timber pond]

Like a Carapace it wraps around mabye idfk

[humble peak]

But I really think we're going too far into trying to speculate about bug god physiology here lol

I don't think TC ever intended for us to consider whether GMS has like internal organs and stuff
they just thought a boss that looks like a giant spool was cool

[lethal burrow]

What are we talking about?

[fossil ledge]

It's possible her god body is composed of silk like the Radiance's is of dream essence

[lethal burrow]

Are we talking about the black part of grandmother silk is made of

and with lace as well, what's that made? Also silk?

[tepid mountain]

Specifically her black body while in the abyss, I think.

[timber pond]

black silk

[fossil ledge]

Yeah, specifically her appearance during the Lost Lace fight

[lethal burrow]

I think that's just void attached to the silk like it's attached to all the other silk

[tepid mountain]

Makes sense to me that it’s just void covering her body.

[fossil ledge]

Whether it's her natural body, black silk or void

[muted lantern]

I was asking why the black part of gms's body seems to have thread coming out of the wound where her arms ripped of. possibly implying even the black part is silk.

[foggy fractal]

presuambly the black parts of phantom, lace and gms outside of act 3/void is just black thread, gms can dye colours lowkey

[lethal burrow]

oh wait, hold on we're talking about grandmother silk lol of course of course yeah yeah I think she just has clothing on in her boss fight and in the abyss she doesn't, either that or it's like her skin instead of her clothing, but either way an outer layer has been gone, and now there is the inner layer which matches her face

skin or clothing either way same jest

I like it better if it's skin though

[humble peak]

As far as the naked vs void argument for in the abyss, I think it just doesn't make sense for it to be void
GMS isn't corrupted at all, and it's explained that she's been expending all of her silk she can to sustain the cocoon she's putting up against the void
so it just makes sense that it's what her body is underneath the silk that normally covers her. Further supported by the few strands still on and the fact that none of the silk actually on her is void-stained at all

[sinful nimbus]

Lace is void covered its not that weird

[muted lantern]

Wasn't gonna post this because the other person saying it was baiting but if you compare her normal sprites with her binding sprites you can see black under the thread as she unravel in spots where it was previously white.

[timber pond]

Phantom getss "Greyed With age" maybe its an aging thing

Like White to grey to Black or smthing

[sinful nimbus]

posts grey

[tepid mountain]

Is that not just shadow?

Because it’s only dark on parts that are underneath

[foggy fractal]

why are their faces (parts that are black) older than the rest of themselves

[sinful nimbus]

She obviously doesn't have a black body when she unravels you can just use your eyes to deduce that

[timber pond]

idk

[muted lantern]

the first circle is showing what shadow on her white silk looks like, the one on the right is showing how different it looks when shes unraveling

[lethal burrow]

The difference between this and the abyss version of her is clearly an indication that the different endings are in different timelines

[tepid mountain]

It looks the same to me, just blurred like the rest of the sprite.

[sinful nimbus]

The silk is more uniform in the first example

[dawn sluice]

i have 3 fingers

[muted lantern]

I would zoom in, you can see a distinct black shape behind her head in a spot where it's white in previous sprites.

[timber pond]

nah man thats my crashout theroy if that ends up being true. Its just whack man. i Dont want "Schrödinger's ending"😭 .

[tepid mountain]

Also where’s the black body here?

[sinful nimbus]

??

Its literally gray

[timber pond]

Could just be a mask mabye

[tepid mountain]

??

[timber pond]

The mask defines silk

[muted lantern]

gone with the rest of her body lol

[edgy nebula]

her body simply seems to be dissipating and the mask is all thats left

[tepid mountain]

But her head is still there.

[timber pond]

yeah thats the mask

[sinful nimbus]

If there was a black silk body it would be... shown when unravelling

[fossil ledge]

Isn't the black bit her face, not a mask?

[timber pond]

her black face might be a mask that is "defining" her

[humble peak]

a difficult thing to tell in these lands

[sinful nimbus]

Well in HK those terms are often used interchangeably

[muted lantern]

plus lace is made entirely of silk and still has a black face

[tepid mountain]

So the black body disappears before the head and the white silk surrounding her body? Even though the argument is that her black body starts to show because the outside silk is being taken away?

[sinful nimbus]

The black face exists the black body does not

[timber pond]

The First mask makers true dio;louge often debates this in universe

[fossil ledge]

I feel like we're only questioning if it's a mask cause there's no eyes, but this is likely cause she sees through her silk

[lethal burrow]

Here's a Sprite for the black body in case anybody is curious

[lethal burrow]

Worth noting that her hands are also black

[timber pond]

she does have void on her leg

[fossil ledge]

The silk on her body also appears to be tainted

[muted lantern]

if she was just covered in void we wouldn't have clear distinct threads covering her, its clearly just showing her threadbare

[timber pond]

I mean there was probably a moment where she was covered in void before creating the cocoon in the abyss so

[sinful nimbus]

What

That's just not consumed thread idk why that'd be strange

[silk dirge]

ok wait i kinda get what people are saying

gms is a giant silk spool

i see it

[timber pond]

we do see a mixture of Consumed/non Consumed thread so ehhh

[humble peak]

ok actually she definitely does have void on her leg...thing here

[edgy nebula]

what is gms' leg thing supposed to even be

[timber pond]

leg

Honestly she seems much more like a forged being thatn a natural one

[humble peak]

Also guys just rq is it just me or does GMS switch which side her missing arm is on between scenes??

[tepid mountain]

She was created by the Steel City.

[timber pond]

Like a sewing pin or something

[silk dirge]

she does

[edgy nebula]

just like how khann's scar moves

[sinful nimbus]

She really is a THK successor

[muted lantern]

lol that is funny, they must have mirrored the sprite at some point and not noticed.

[edgy nebula]

gms just decides which looks better for the sprite

[sinful nimbus]

She also regains her arm at the very end

[tepid mountain]

She just moved the silk from one arm to the other.

[timber pond]

oo speaking of i made a reasoning on why a THK Game would be epic

[tepid mountain]

Because she’s a lefty.

[humble peak]

does she?

[foggy fractal]

this happens for every enemy holding smth in one arm, tc just mirrors the sprite

[foggy fractal]

go look at last judge for example

[muted lantern]

tbf she can spawn in like 4 more arms at any given time

[timber pond]

look its just her essence of self bro

kek

[silk dirge]

yeah i cant fault them for doing this

[fossil ledge]

I never registered this lmao

[humble peak]

wild

[silk dirge]

redrawing every sprite to be properly handed would be a stupid waste of time

[fossil ledge]

But you're right, she regains it during this moment

[humble peak]

on one hand yeah but I think they could have put in the work for a major boss that only has one arm for important reasons
but it's no biggy

[timber pond]

prepare for text dump let me know what you think.

[humble peak]

oh no

[timber pond]

THK is not fully Defined by what it could do. They Could radically change him for a new game In terms of gameplay, my justification is through story. Lace seems like she can be defined with hornet by her side, and It isnt really necessary for us to help in that, there is no lingering conflict for lace truly, it would need to be manufactured once again. But The Hollow Knight? it is much like Lace, defined by another and Bound to that role with no salvation. Except, if it escapes like in Embrace the Void and Lives.... What resolution does he have? None. he is Unresolved as a character intentionally by team Cherry. This unresolved state he's in makes for an ideal plot Where THK must find a new definition for itself. which would fit with The Knight finding out the History of hallownest in the first game and choosing what to feel, along with Hornet redifining her life and Personal experience with the world through helping other bugs in pharloom. THK has nothing and his "History" has ended,yes its true. but much like Seth, he now lives in a world undefined but burdened by memory, unlike Seth. Thus i cannot see any other option For a resolution to The Hollow Knights character, other than a Character-defining adventure, which a mere Nod Would not Suffice in my opinion. Thats just how Team cherry set it up by making him live in that ending.

[silk dirge]

thk would be a cool character

the one issue is size

you cant exactly make a playable character that big

[foggy fractal]

yeah it's really no big deal, I had to do a double take to properly register this information and even still it looks fine

[timber pond]

Like i said, they could change how he is.

idk

[muted lantern]

what if you made the world really big

[humble peak]

they already did that for Hornet lol

[silk dirge]

i mean you could do that

[muted lantern]

I mean they had to change a lot about silksong to account for her size

[tepid mountain]

They go to the City of Steel and gets partially compressed to be smaller.

[silk dirge]

it would look very silly tho

[timber pond]

I think pepole are more concerned how he would move

Or like control

[humble peak]

anyway anyone know where I can get a look at all the GMS sprites? Is there a page on the wiki?

[timber pond]

Bros got alota body

[silk dirge]

yeah thk would not be as agile as hornet

[muted lantern]

make the world bigger, and zoom out the camera, so they take up the same amount of screen size

[humble peak]

THK's build is not suited for exploration

[silk dirge]

do you realize how small enemies would be then

[timber pond]

I know that. but i mean like how satisfying his movest and stuff would be

[silk dirge]

unless you want every enemy to be fucking like

fourth chorus sized

[muted lantern]

put them somewhere with big enemies

[timber pond]

He means to makeeveryone and everything shadow of the colosus sized like in early Hollow Knight concept art lol

[silk dirge]

i see the vision

[muted lantern]

every enemy is a massive moss charger

[humble peak]

whence did you get this sprite?

[muted lantern]

game files presumably, but its from the ll fight

[timber pond]

Every Enemy is gurr

[foggy fractal]

https://mega.nz/folder/nu5GjLxD#JB92f7G2YKa1ms9i6erftw/folder/qmRlQBLC

[humble peak]

no I know where it's from I wanna know if I have t
perfect thank you

[muted lantern]

the funny thing is that lace is stated to be entirely silk and one could presume phantom is too, so the black part of their bodies. is gms just dyeing the silk?

[humble peak]

I think it's probably just some kind of hardened silk
made dense for structural integrity

[muted lantern]

uhhh

[humble peak]

wh
how is that implied

[muted lantern]

have you seen lace

[humble peak]

Have you seen Phantom?

[muted lantern]

yeah, because they are black? why wouldn't that just be the color they are?

being black doesnt mean you are made of void lol

[edgy nebula]

yes it is

every character is void

[muted lantern]

elderbug is void

[muted lantern]

but would that make it black?

[humble peak]

idk
looks cool

[muted lantern]

we know silk greys when it loses its strength, like silk dregs and phantom.

[humble peak]

dregs?

[quick geyser]

So true

[muted lantern]

the stuff they collect in greymoor

can you post a picture of what you are referencing? i don't remember snail shamans being brown

[quick geyser]

A lot of bugs in hollow knight literally have their limbs as black 💔

[humble peak]

oh yeah not to bring this back up but on GMS
you notice how when you bind or absorb her, all of her ultimately gets consumed?
which I think supports the idea that, at least when being bound, every part of her, even the black and the metal(??) parts, get broken down into Silk

[sinful nimbus]

The metal parts fly off

[humble peak]

oh do they?

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah

And every bound corpse disappears despite not being physically unraveled so idk why you'd make this assumption

[muted lantern]

in which animation? the binding her in act 2 or 3? I don't remember seeing it but i wanna recheck

[sinful nimbus]

Act 2

[muted lantern]

oh so it does, neat detail

i was curious what happened to her metal bits

Thought that leads me to wonder, does she have no legs? is the metal thing a prosthetic?

[sinful nimbus]

Seems like it

[muted lantern]

another disabled woman hornet murders to add to the list

[frigid belfry]

i mean every being hornet binds remains as a part of her

gms (or at least her essence) is inside hornets head somewhere

[humble peak]

idk, she doesn't really properly bind her in SotV

[frigid belfry]

she kind of just binds her silk to use a propulsion and not her essence

[humble peak]

Seems like everything she gets in is immediately used up, not made part of herself.

[frigid belfry]

a silk rocketship

[silk dirge]

one thing im curious about how did hornet silk soar

[fossil ledge]

She does seem to be able to move it. Could be with silk I suppose

[silk dirge]

there is no way her needle reached the ceiling of the abyss

[humble peak]

similar to how she controls the pale nails ig

[silk dirge]

my guess is probably her needle ended up in the middle of the void before she pulled up to it

[humble peak]

massive plothole uncovered
maybe it got jutted into some more solid bit of void

[muted lantern]

isnt there like a roof above the pool she dives into? also presumably gms giving her silk away extended the range on silk soar

[silk dirge]

yeah this is my guess

[humble peak]

would also explain why she didn't make it all the way out of the sea

[silk dirge]

but its with her in the ending cutscene

its floating around in the void

[frigid belfry]

she kind of didnt, she uses silksoar, but her momentum comes from some kind of silk propulsion

[humble peak]

idk

[silk dirge]

yeah but she does throw her needle up

[sinful nimbus]

She attached it to a void worm that is pulling her up

[muted lantern]

The needle got stuck in ghosts eyehole

[frigid belfry]

im guessing she latches onto the coccoon for a launch

[humble peak]

nah the needle flies straight through

[frigid belfry]

then uses gms's silk for propulsion

[silk dirge]

oh yeah i could see that

[muted lantern]

I think that was a rain world reference lol

[frigid belfry]

the cocoon is massive from what we see, theres also no way she latched onto the abyss roof

[silk dirge]

yeah she latched onto something close by to accelerate her and then use gms for propulsion

[sinful nimbus]

No void tendrils are like actually worms

not made of corn this time

Also RW has the better void dive don't @ me 🥱

They didn't even bother putting anything down there

[muted lantern]

I mean yeah you can't really beat the rw one

[spark valve]

You can

[sinful nimbus]

I'm uh a moron who spent like 6 minutes swimming in the wrong direction 🥴

[muted lantern]

in the initial dive or the part where theres like a million copies of you

because the second one it doesnt matter which direction you go i think, it just takes forever

[sinful nimbus]

Really

Latter yes

[muted lantern]

I think the direction doesnt matter, i think the map just loops you around if you go straight long enough

or something, but i've seen people find the white ball in completely different directions

[lethal burrow]

here's a question, why is silk white in real life?

[vestal swan]

Bc yes

[stark quest]

How was Hornet able to get a beating heart from Crust King Khann? Was he not really dead?

[edgy nebula]

it's partly implied he's still alive

[unique canopy]

Because commercial silk is produced from the pupae of a silkworm which are specifically bred to produce white silk. Wild silk has a variety of colours depending on the species of creature producing it.

[muted lantern]

probably, we know the people of karak can lie dormant for centuries if watcher at the edge is any indication

[random aspen]

his ass save and quit on a throne

[unique canopy]

(the vast majority of commercial silks come from various species of moth, btw )

[muted lantern]

au where radiance gets all the silk and pharloom in the divorce

[stark quest]

https://tenor.com/view/mind-blown-shocked-face-whoa-really-wow-gif-17146534

[rough ingot]

the coral warriors die when their bodies fully become crustified and disintegrate, like Khan does when we kill him

if u killed enough coral warriors in his gauntlet, you know he’s not dead

[unique canopy]

The way the shamans described it, the hearts are remnants of various sources of power throughout Pharloom, with the bosses we fight being the last successors to inherit those powers. So the power itself stayed within the land even if the physical successor died, but Hornet still needed the elegy to re-empower the hearts by fighting the successors at the heights of their respective powers, because otherwise they're too weak in the present day.

[rough ingot]

Skarrsinger is weak as heck and we see that, green prince is mourning, Nyleth is shellwood, and Khan is basically hibernating

[rough ingot]

though, Khan didnt become coral and disintegrate like the rest of his tribe till u take his heart

i guess gn chat, remember, to get through the mist you need to play your needolin near the silkflies. Play your song till you find your bed!

[upbeat chasm]

did any of the weavers ever try to usurp gms? were they just not strong enough, and if so, what makes hornet different enough from the other weavers to be able to claim her place?

[muted lantern]

Hornet is half god, and they did try to make a being that could usurp gms which was eva, but she failed to amount to anything and was hidden away.

[upbeat chasm]

right i get it now thanks

[near sand]

hes so weird man

[tawdry flare]

we love him

[near sand]

hes so weird and awesome

hes weird and faceless and awesome

[lucid fossil]

hronet ovoid

[near sand]

do we see any faceless buggers in the original game?

[near sand]

I loved meeting both of them and telling myself oh they must be connected and then finding out oh no they're not he's just wearing a mask. and then realizing hes proobably wearing the face of huntress' mate❤️

poor fella got lost died in sinners road and had his face stolen by the mask freak

[sinful nimbus]

Legendary fakeout

Almost as good as Nuu giving the Hunter's Journal

[near sand]

ah! the huntress! surely this character will grant me the hunters journal.

the humble slug:

[fringe hemlock]

oh lord...

[near sand]

[bright hound]

Is there a concensus for why Herra Looks so different from the other weavers? I saw a theory that she was an ascended drapemite but you'd think hornet would note something about them being similar to her in the journal instead of the pharlids.

[sinful nimbus]

Not really

She was redesigned in SS to look more like a weaver though

Its really just the horns now

[foggy fractal]

there's not really a conensus, though more people believe in some theories than others we just don't have any information as to why Herrah looks the way she does

in universe explanation that is

of course we have the out of universe explanation of it being a retcon

[random aspen]

this channel made me hate that word

r*tcon

[vestal swan]

Not a slug
Where do people keep getting this crusty ass image

[near sand]

the wiki

wdym nuus not a slug what the frick.

[vestal swan]

Bc she's not

Also

Why is the wiki using an image where she's gray

[sinful nimbus]

She's a kissing bug with a snail backpack

[vestal swan]

Is there some really weird cave she appears in for this sprite or something

Nuu is pretty bright pink

[near sand]

thats just her base color Ig

[vestal swan]

I definitely missed some interactions because she travels around the map but gray is not the default color

[near sand]

yeah im fairly sure it's just her base color

[vestal swan]

That's pink

[vestal swan]

This looks like somebody sucked the color out of her

[near sand]

I believe theres filters and stuff applied to the game so her colors different?

i'm not saying she isnt pink

[foggy fractal]

ripped directly from the spritesheet which doesn't have the lighting often applied to her in halfway home

[near sand]

there we go

[vestal swan]

That doesn't make sense, apply the lighting

[near sand]

shes awesome i love nuu

[vestal swan]

Dimlit cave/bright ass tavern she's the same color ingame

#sk-discussion ?

[near sand]

Im sorry man. life is unfair sometimes

[vestal swan]

Fics don't go here

[half zenith]

Sorry

[foggy fractal]

I mean this happens to hunter journal entries in game too, it's as much of a tc problem as a wiki problem, for example: Widow

[silk dirge]

has anyone ever gotten the nuu voltnest interaction

[vestal swan]

Wtf

[silk dirge]

the dialog for it is on the wiki

but i do not know anyone who actually has found her there

[vestal swan]

Only Nuu I saw out of tavern was traffic cone boss iirc

[near sand]

me 2

[silk dirge]

bc why would you go back to voltvyrm ever

sister splinter and great conchflies you are likely to pass through going somewhere

[vestal swan]

"surely this tiny boss arena doesn't just drop a blue? Let me recheck for another path"

[silk dirge]

you are never going to pass by voltvyrm after you beat it

idk how her ass even got up there

[random aspen]

maybe if you miss the useless materium thing

[near sand]

is the general consensus still thats skynx is a nosk

[foggy fractal]

as well as Seth, look how much more green he is

[vestal swan]

Never was

[near sand]

never really liked that theory but unfortunately it makes sense

[vestal swan]

It doesn't though

[silk dirge]

lighting do be like that

[foggy fractal]

yes

[near sand]

Ive seen many share this exact idea so clearly it was

[vestal swan]

Skynx doesn't:

• Shapeshift
• Read minds
• String up its prey
• Eat people
  Nosk doesn't:
• Communicate
• Trade in currency
• Literally wear the heads of victims

[near sand]

maybe not as spread as I thought

[vestal swan]

The only similarity is an upside down face

And that's not even a good comparison because that only happens to nosk after transformation

[near sand]

skynx also has the same weird little hands as styx

[silk dirge]

also quick question do we think this ndd is proof first sinner is the first weaver

[vestal swan]

Nnnndede?

[near sand]

yeah the only real evidence for skynx being a nosk is the upside down mask

[silk dirge]

this is if you play it before you bind her

[vestal swan]

They are not a nosk

[vestal swan]

They have zero similarities

[foggy fractal]

was proving that tc just slaps a filter on the screen and some journal entries look like they're from hk 😭 so desaturated

[vestal swan]

Nosks upsidedown head is part of its body

[mellow dock]

Hey guys

[near sand]

I know dude ❤️ I need to figure out what it is

[silk dirge]

to me this definitely seems to be implying shes the first weaver

[unique canopy]

Could simply be referring to the Weavers as a whole (First Children) since the other lines include "Our silk, our rage"

[vestal swan]

First : sinner
Doesn't really scream first Weaver, although it's not out of the realm of logic because of the cutscene and her malformed head

[silk dirge]

i mean idk if she would call herself that

[vestal swan]

A unique horrifying monster

[frigid belfry]

she is directly called "first of the first"

[silk dirge]

yeah but thats by others

idk if thats what she thinks of herself

[frigid belfry]

i think shes of the first generation of weavers, not the first weaver

[vestal swan]

It makes sense for her to be the first but that line just doesn't scream I'm the first Weaver

[unique canopy]

Actually, fuck. I'm going to revise my theory. She wasn't sealed by GMS. She was sealed by the Weavers, but not simply because she knew about the divine lie. She was the first to reveal the divine lie, to her sisters, and that's what led to them rebelling (except Widow). The reason why she was sealed is because she didn't want to flee Pharloom, and also didn't want to simply wait around to die in the spires so someone else could bind her skill later. She was too angry at GMS for it, so she had to be forcibly pacified by her sisters to avoid fucking the plans.

[near sand]

well kind of

[vestal swan]

To separate herself from phantom, maybe that's who caught her

[near sand]

skynx is definitely not a nosk but definitely meant to parallel nosk

[vestal swan]

That's disturbing, cuz that just implies that he tore the entire front of the body off not just the head

[random aspen]

i think first sinner is the first weaver or at least the first normal pharlid weaver cus every other weaver are pharlid divers and first sinner is the only normal pharlid weaver cus of the head shape, if weavers grew their head overtime to look more round then why would first sinners shrine thingy have a cracked head

[vestal swan]

Why are you sure they're divers?

[random aspen]

thats the only explanation i can believe for why her head looks different

[unique canopy]

Especially if she actually was Atla like I've seen it theorized, because her Weavenest was where they made most of the plans to seal and subdue GMS. She wanted a permanent solution.

[random aspen]

cant think of any other reason their heads look like that

[vestal swan]

Her head isn't fully formed because that's just how it was formed, but assuming that she's the first you could assume it's just a mistake

[unique canopy]

Divers don't have perfectly spherical heads either

[random aspen]

its less spiky

[unique canopy]

Still goes to a point in the middle, and possibly the sides too

[unique canopy]

The similarities between First Sinner and normal pharlids are obvious, the game itself shows it in her memory. Just saying divers aren't completely spherical either so it could just be damage to the mask itself

[random aspen]

the outer horns couldve grown in to cover it like this

its a lot easier for theirr head shape to become a sphere than normal pharlids

[silk dirge]

ok cogfly

[random aspen]

the outer horns are even going inward

[unique canopy]

Notice how the other Weavers have round sphere heads but also clean lines down the middle. First's line is jagged and cracked, so it might simply be damaged from having to subdue her.

[silk dirge]

@vestal swan bro is slacking

[unique canopy]

A weapon to surpass cogfly spammers

[silk dirge]

olaris

[vestal swan]

It's not damaged we see it form halfway

[frigid belfry]

the fact that her head is hollow implies that it's a mask, and what widow had removed

shes like a hollow... knight

[vestal swan]

Sinner just basically having the prototype mutation and the first one lifted from a lower bug makes sense for her head being misformed

[silk dirge]

idk how it took me so long to realize the reason maestro voice lines are so memorable are bc its the trobbio va

🗣️ 🔥 VECTA

[foggy fractal]

gms such a talented artist, adapting from her mistakes 😊 🌼

[frigid belfry]

all higher beings somehow have a built in crispr and are accomplished geneticists

[dawn sluice]

this is because they're very smart

[desert cloak]

why does GMS give her "daughters" anorexia thats kinda messed up

[vestal swan]

This reminds me something I noticed the other day, apparently making stuff with physical materials versus melding essence and even spells that use physical things or create them versus essence-based are way more difficult than they need to be.
Essence crowbar: enter dreams n read them with one swipe or make and use a gate for one essence
Shaman spell: eats the spellcasters bc not enough fuel
Mutating weavers : imprecise, flawed
Lace/phantom: need upkeep their God can't keep up with (while sealed)
Rads zombies: nation wide thriller music video (while sealed)
Unns mosskin: massive amount, seemingly no immediate drawback, and she can support them all
Haunting: tying up all of GMSs resources
PKs beacon : passive, possibly radiating from his old molted shell, no effort
Essence power gods got it easy

Nyleth did a better job with physical creations/spawn than GMS

Also crackhead idea, do y'all think something in the pharloom lake absorbed the remnants of GMS before TK got to it? Be really funny if TK just adds silk to its toolset after eating gmaw silk

[silk dirge]

honestly it would be really funny if tk got the crests of every hb the void consumed

bro would have the crest of both radiance and gms and be like "nah these are shit who would use these"

[desert cloak]

aren't crests a weaver ability

[silk dirge]

no

hornets ability to change crests comes from pk

kill

[muted lantern]

Thank you discord user for such valuable aid

[unique canopy]

Crests are a Weaver term to describe something all bugs have. Hornet is a Persona wild card.

[silk dirge]

yeah the word crest comes from weavers

but hornets ability to change crests is from pk

[dry bridge]

we aren't explicitly told this, but yeah, her ability to bind and change crests is probably from some combination of a wyrm's ability to metamorphose and a weaver's ability to bind memories in silk (or at least, I assume that's an ability weavers have, otherwise what is the purpose of the spires)

[vestal swan]

Weavers can bind

Hornets just stronger and can swap crests and not be overrun by the things she absorbs

[silk dirge]

also just learned you can get sylphsong in act 2 lol

bc i was looking at eva dialog

thats feels so weird lol

[vestal swan]

You can???

[silk dirge]

according to the wiki

you just need to find every memory locket possible

[cobalt coyote]

Isn't there one next to karmelita tho?

Memory locket

[edgy nebula]

i wonder if karak's river was magical someday

somehow a single river sustained all of karak, making the people able to rule half of pharloom, and they also worshipped it

[silk dirge]

i said possible

so that means every one except 2 that require silk soar

[cobalt coyote]

Aah

Okay

[hushed crater]

I think it's more like they needed the water to survive because they are of course corals maybe gave them live but I don't think this is the case

[hexed kindle]

the source was in mount fay

@ Mods

<@&283547423706447872>

[mighty zealot]

money is mine

[muted lantern]

How many bots do you guys have to ban per day for this one scam?

[olive quartz]

idt it has anything to do with metamorphosis

Hornet: You speak of their crest? That signifier of a bug's essence and their invisible yoke born through a lifetime.

the way it's phrased seems to me to suggest that higher beings themselves have crests, which they are just as 'yoked' to and stuck in as mortal bugs

kind of a general purpose explanation for why higher beings have such deeply ingrained drives. like the pale king's very crest is that of a king and he is incapable of changing that

[olive quartz]

well, to be clear, we know higher beings have crests, we bind grand mother silk's during the weaver queen ending, but the ability to change crest is... seemingly unique to hornet

Incredible... Your nature is so unlike a mortal bug's. Yours is malleable, transitory. It is a marvelous thing, worth my long life to behold.

Lady, you are a multitude within a single shell. A being truly unbound. To aid your growth has proved a grand task, even for one as limited as me.

[wild zinc]

Is widow x first sinner incest? Cause like they’re kinda sisters but they’re not blood related and also it’s not like grand mother silk raised them together she kinda has a fucked up view of family but like they technically kinda have the same mom still

[hexed kindle]

yes dawg its incest

they are SISTERS

Fuck are we talking about

[warm ferry]

“Sisters, spiders…”

Man I hate to break it to you

Even if they would be only “technically” sisters, thats just not okay

[lilac hedge]

Pharlid x pharlid goes hard

[carmine veldt]

That’s like asking if step siblings count as incest

The answer is yes

[slate slate]

They both are grown into weavers by g.m.silk's silks so it might be incest

[wise sand]

Yeah

[muted lantern]

Yes i would consider it incest. Even if its like a vaguely grey area on if they are blood related because of weird magic fuckery instead of direct birth. the weavers all seem to consider themselves sisters, and they are all linked in their actual like sapience and existence as the people they are by the same power that is gms, which i think serves enough as a blood relation in this magical world. And additionally on the matter i've seen brought up of first sinner denying the claim that the weavers are gms's daughters it seems pretty clear that she was imprisoned by the weavers for making that claim, that they weren't her daughters and weren't divine, as her sin is apostasy and weavers were trying to claim themselves as gods to relish in their false rule. so at the very least the rest of the weavers all considered gms their mother, and considered eachother sisters, so overall I wouldn't touch that ship with a 10 foot pole. They are at the very least like step sisters if not literal sisters.

[dry bridge]

I more meant like, the pale king has a transient form (big wyrm -> little king) and this trait was inherited as hornet's own transient nature to bind and use the crests of other bugs, when combined with her weaver abilities.
I.e. a weaver couldnt do it, and PK couldnt do it, but a half-weaver half-wyrm could

[mild adder]

GMS just uplifted the phralids or however they are spelled
not like GMS is actually their mom, that was the whole point in uplifting them, as such they most likely aren't even related in any shape way or form

GMs couldn't produce any children unless it was specifically silk homonculi like Lace and Phantom, or well, atleast she didn't try to have actual children, she instantly went for uplifting beastly bugs, so i assume she just flat out can't.

[swift oracle]

thats what i think too but id still say its incest because they do consider each other sisters

[hushed crater]

Bdw is Widow more like Herah the beast then the normal weavers?

[swift oracle]

no i think she just had her mask ripped off

[hidden crater]

If gms wanted a kid why didnt she ask the pale king

[hushed crater]

Very big mask for such small face but yea it was

[swift oracle]

i dont think she knows who that is

[hushed crater]

Just weird why her face is so small

[hidden crater]

But you know damn well how everything ends

[hushed crater]

Well he had no lack of children 1 more wouldn't hurt

[mild adder]

the japanese tag for it is Inseki in that case

[swift oracle]

and besides o thought she's literally just a giant spool of silk

[swift oracle]

oh i see

[mild adder]

Plot twist GMS is just an agrieved Ex of the Wyrm who got sad and dejected her gigantic Wyrm husbando got turned into a petite bug that his like five times smaller than her

[hexed kindle]

yall wanna hear my steel city theory

[naive lake]

why does grandma silk lool so human-like 😭 ? No like she's the most human looking bug and that feels so out of place

[hushed crater]

They really wanted to pull nostalgia into the game with bosses like the bell beast (giant moss charger) the ugly fly mother (the not that ugly mother of the flying bugs) and of course gms (radiance)

[cobalt coyote]

Wdym GMS/radiance

Nvm fair

Typed too fast didnt even think about it

[mild adder]

i actually have nooooticed a small thing regarding to GMS and Radiance
both of them seem to have artificial looking lower apendage that ends in a point
It is an extremely weird coincidence

[hexed kindle]

I think shes meant to resemble a mother more to say like as a motif

[mild adder]

both tyranical rulers of people that got "betrayed" share similarities in how they actually look, behave and attack.

though GMS is far more of a crybaby

[hexed kindle]

Ok so when we see mentions of the steel city in both games the rulers of the city are described as not seeking order which can be akin to the void civilastion and the void itself as void does not have order so perhaps the rulers are akin to the void perhaps yet still have sentience due to them still being part bug being similar to the vessels. HOWEVER it is said they do not seek order perhaps they may be a void race maybe an evolved species akin to the creatures that reside in the void. What i think so far is that they may have been apart of the ancient civilization which explains sula's ability to construct the summoned saviour which is made out of void But perhaps after some time they split into 3 factions. The snail shamans,the steel city and the rest remained the void civilastion. You may be thinking why i said the snail shamans the reason being is that their shells are akin to the ones found in the void also they know about the void and the snail shamans in act 3 are described as "having ties" to the void and i dont think the shamans reside in a single pilgrim i think they travel across the Hollow world (the hollow knight planet im calling it the hollow world as the core of it is void i think) sharing teachings or trying to seek power or test power which

[hexed kindle]

is what the snail shamans wish to do as seen in silksong as the bell hermit says in the silk and soul quest "I'll give it. Not in the hope you'll succeed... Bah! In that, there's slim chance. I give just to see that restless energy unleashed." No the steel city i think is located in the "serene lands" in which the grey mourner is from said serene lands where the delicate flower came from however i think this land is located near the abyss like incredibly close the reason being is sulas affinity for void and also how the steel seers and shamans are in both silksong and hollow knight and we know how the void most likely spans the whole world they could use the void for travel but i doubt it or they could go across the desolate wastes which i doubt idrk but i still think the steel city is in the serene fields as void is warded off by the delicate flowers. thats kinda the end for now as i gotta do stuff later i would yap for longer abt this but ill save it for another day

[cobalt coyote]

Dang that's alot of text

Ima read that

[hushed crater]

Nice theory.

[hexed kindle]

thank you

👍

[marble oasis]

i disagree, the fact that eva says the malleable and transitory nature is unlike a mortal bug's implies this is a higher being thing, not just hornet

[ornate pier]

Doesn't gms bind hornet in the cut ending

Though since it's cut it doesn't really mean anything for the canon

[heavy gyro]

It's probably a wyrm trait

[drifting trellis]

I mean, Eldritch horrors like Chtulhu don't seem fitting in our world too

Is there a lore reason why GMS is easier than Radiance, or just video game logic?

[heavy gyro]

There used to be a lore reason but it got cut

You had to activate tuning forks to weaken her originally or else you'd get the bad ending

But that got cut

So rn it's either video game logic or she's just weak because she just woke up

[frozen hornet]

Tuning forks? I thought bell shrines were supposed to do it.

[heavy gyro]

The tuning forks were related to the bell shrines afaik

[frozen hornet]

Interesting

[spark reef]

does anyone here wonder why the game gives you the choice to either defeat Karmelita or the Green Prince?

Normally, we can say that one boss would be relatively easy to defeat since Clover Dancers is similar to Cogwork Dancers.

other than that, what do you think?

[spark reef]

Isn't there a theory that the Weavers kept GMS in slumber via the Silksong?

[drifting trellis]

I think it's Green Prince or the other heart bosses

[spark reef]

true, but Nyleth and Khann were already dead.

[drifting trellis]

Some people may dislike Crust King's tower, Karmelita's boss fight or Nyleth

So they can just beat up a different boss

[drifting trellis]

?

[spark reef]

In the Old Hearts quest, Hornet uses the Elegy of the Deep to essentially access their memories.

But in the present, only Karmelita and the Green Prince are alive.

Khann is encrusted in Coral Tower.

and Nyleth is beneath a water fountain.

[abstract rivet]

so is Nyleth though

stole the word right outta my mouth

[naive lake]

huh, touchè

[abstract rivet]

Idk what happened to Khan

[ornate pier]

Nyleth is dead

[abstract rivet]

wheres he

[spark reef]

yup.

[abstract rivet]

wheres he encrusted

[ornate pier]

Khann may be dead or sleeping cuz his body doesnt crumble or whatever

Hes probably dead

[ornate pier]

Coral tower

[heavy gyro]

Hes likely hibernating because he crumbles when he dies just like the other coral warriors

[naive lake]

Oh so breaking those corpses in the tower you were actualy killing them

[ornate pier]

I don't think that's directly linked to death

You don't see it happen in coral tower do you

In like the gauntlets

[heavy gyro]

The watcher at the edge is also just hibernating but then wakes up and crumbles when he dies

[spark reef]

but does that mean Khann was hibernating as well?

[ornate pier]

I don't think it means they only die when they've crumbled

Like if you kill the enemies in coral tower they don't crumble

[spark reef]

either way, green prince and karmelita are the only ones who were able to interact with Hornet directly.

in present day.

Kinda makes it obvious that you might end up killing either one.

[heavy gyro]

The karaka do

[marble oasis]

clover dancers is easy but it requires you to go through the whole of verdania

[frosty gate]

Do the Karak Gor crumble?

[abstract rivet]

i want thisss

[heavy gyro]

Yeah they do

[frosty gate]

Don't all enemies in CT cruble?

I can't remember, i was too busy hating them

[ornate pier]

Oh shit they do

[unreal estuary]

I think it might just be the soldiers, none of the fish or octopi do

But maybe the flying ones don't? I can't remember all too well

[frosty gate]

I mean, those were the ones being referred right?

[unreal estuary]

Oh yeah

[heavy gyro]

Just the karaka i think

[ornate pier]

I wasnt really paying attention to the corpses so ig I jus missed that entirely

The Alita also crumbles

Come to think of it what even is an alita, it doesn't even give off crustacean vibes

[unreal estuary]

yeah none of the flying enemies crumble, they just fall off the stage

[ornate pier]

Yeah i checked they don't

[heavy gyro]

Oh ye they do

[idle rain]

hornet is actually not a spider🤓 👆

[marble oasis]

Looks vaguely antlike

Strictly speaking none of them are crustaceans though

Even the fishes is bugs

[ornate pier]

Crustaceans are arthropods

[stray fog]

Are you talking about the karak enemies?

[ornate pier]

Bugs either means a very specific order of insects (Hemipterans or true bugs) or the colloquial meaning, which the game uses, which includes like every arthropod ever and stuff not even closely related like snails

If you limit bugs to insects then Hornet and the Weavers are not bugs

[heavy gyro]

We dont really know that

theyre just called "floaters" in the journal

[ornate pier]

No idea what's going on with the kai and the jellyfish

[stray fog]

Does team cherry even need to limit themselves to bugs

[heavy gyro]

I think arachnids arent actually ever called bugs

[ornate pier]

I mean we di have some 100% non bug entities like mushrooms

[marble oasis]

Hornet does take offense when called a bug

[ornate pier]

Spiders get lumped in as bugs all the time?

[marble oasis]

For whatever reason they do, even the Fayforn is a bug

[ornate pier]

The fayforn is prolly

[marble oasis]

Which PISSES me off you have no idea

[ornate pier]

A moth of some sort, it has bug legs

[marble oasis]

JUST MAKE IT A BIRD!!!!

[stray fog]

But they've added mushrooms, snails, crabs, wyrms

[ornate pier]

If

[marble oasis]

where crabs

[ornate pier]

Oh my god brah

[stray fog]

Crust king khann

[ornate pier]

Pretty much everything is a bug, including bestial things

[heavy gyro]

So the fish can very well be both fish and bugs

[stray fog]

I feel like they could add an octopus and I'd be fine with it

[marble oasis]

The Karakas are only ever called bugs, never crustaceans or crabs or the like

[ornate pier]

I did initially think bugs in the context of hk meant civilised people while playing through the first game but some journal entries proved me wrong

[stray fog]

But hes the crust king

[marble oasis]

And the Kakri and Yago look much more like bugs, with masks and segmented abdomens

[marble oasis]

I know...

[ornate pier]

Again the irl definition of bugs in a colloquial sense is extremely broad

[marble oasis]

Listen man you have no idea how much I want it to not just be bugs

[stray fog]

Yeah crabs have insect vibes

[ornate pier]

Bugs irl either means a specific order of insects or a lot of shit
It does not ever mean Just insects

[ornate pier]

Arthropods

[marble oasis]

I know, yes, otherwise no arachnids or snails

[stray fog]

And I don't think team cherry went with the taxonomical definition of insects

[ornate pier]

In fact insects are NESTED WITHIN crustaceans phylogenetics wise

[marble oasis]

Interestingly the Craggler and Cragglites are called roof crab and small crabs respectively in the files

[ornate pier]

I think anything ever called an insect (which is few and far between bug is far more used) is always an insect though?

[ornate pier]

Filenames should be taken with a grain of salt but yeah I would say crustaceans are definitely fair game on virtue of being arthropods

[marble oasis]

TC seem to be going out of their way to not make them crustaceans though

All crust mentions are specifically coral rather than shell

[ornate pier]

Again them being called bugs does not mean them being crustaceans is invalidated

We have snails in this game

[marble oasis]

If they were crustaceans why not make them naturally crusty

Why bother to only make them crustaceanlike when having coral armour

[ornate pier]

What

[marble oasis]

Any mention of crust is prefaced that it's talking about coral

[ornate pier]

Who says theyre wearing artificial armor

[marble oasis]

high atop those coral crusted caves beyond the Grand Gate
Hardened warrior lord of a bygone age, able to command the coral crust to his bidding.
Far tougher for being matched inside their encrusted domain
This bug's fusion with the crust-growth... It seems intentional, though I imagine the union is far from comfortable
Hidden amongst their tower's matching crust, these smaller bugs would have survived and thrived.

[ornate pier]

Yes the crust refers to coral but again it does not really invalidate them being crustaceans?

The only one whose actually wearing coral (Not even wearing its fused) is the corrcrust karaka

The others just have shells like that

Karak gor journal entry calls them "hard-shelled"

[marble oasis]

The Corrcrust Karaka is called an elder, implying it's the same species as the other Karaka

It has a normal bug underbelly

[ornate pier]

So???

Crustaceans are arthropods they're very similar irl

[pearl thunder]

irl similarities are irrelevant

[ornate pier]

The species is the same but the corrcryst karaka have opted to fuse themselves with coral

[marble oasis]

This grey striped underbelly is shared by uncountable other definitely terrestrial bug species

[vestal swan]

They're all considered a bug adjacent besides roots and mushrooms

Even the flying fish

[ornate pier]

My whole argument is that crustaceans r bugs

[vestal swan]

It doesn't really matter because in universe theyre bugs anyway

[heavy gyro]

How do we know the fish are bugs

[marble oasis]

They're said to have shells

[heavy gyro]

It says "shellsack" and who said the fish can't have shells

[marble oasis]

Our shells made strong...

[stray fog]

Don't they have scales

[marble oasis]

no?

[stray fog]

Irl fish

Not in game

[marble oasis]

some

fish is an even broader term than bugs man we do not want to get into this

[ornate pier]

We're all fish

😂

Not really fish just kinda means nothing scientifically now

[heavy gyro]

Nvm my bad

But still the fish could be fish

Because they're never explicitly called bugs

[marble oasis]

How are they flying

They look like they're swimming but they are flying

[heavy gyro]

Same way the jellyfish are

[stray fog]

Video game

[marble oasis]

Jellyfish seem to be plants oddly

[edgy nebula]

topic?

[frosty gate]

In Hollow Knight? We don't know what they are iirc

[marble oasis]

https://www.tumblr.com/mebis-silksong-corner/798031444217905152?source=share

MEBI's silksong corner

jellyfish is plant

🔁 mebis-silksong-corner

Fog Canyon is one of the oddest regions of the game, and this is entirely because of the fog drifting kin of Monomon the Teacher...

Tumblr · Oct 21, 2025, 3:54 PM

Not canon, but an interesting analysis

[frosty gate]

That's gonna get deleted probably, but I'll check it out

[noble mulch]

Why are the knights horns like the hollow knight’s in silksong ending and dream no more

[frosty gate]

I absolutely love how the Hunter tries to figure it out what the Uomas are and ends up saying "What the fuck is this thing"

[stray fog]

Jellyfish are canonically weird

Platypus type shit

[frosty gate]

That is an interesting analysis, although it kinda makes sense?

[marble oasis]

Mebi the goat water wouldn't dare

[frosty gate]

They are?

[noble mulch]

https://tenor.com/view/hollow-knight-silk-ending-void-the-hollow-knight-gif-2979424034596621782

[frosty gate]

They look the same to me, maybe the angle makes it look weird

They're a bit thicker if anything

They do look different than the ones in their shell

[marble oasis]

They seem to grow as its Shade form grow in power

Notable that they look similar to the Void tendrils

In the statue at least

[frosty gate]

Even their shade

[marble oasis]

No the Shade has the same horns as the Shell

Look at the notch placement

[frosty gate]

I meant the shade looks different from the LoS form

[marble oasis]

Oh yeah

Shade don't got feet either

[frosty gate]

That might be it, considering we have no other reason honestly

We still don't even know how vessels grow

[mighty parcel]

Are the Kais you fight in Coral Tower hard or squishy?

[stray fog]

This is truly the question of all time

[frosty gate]

It is a very good question

I guess both?
How does a pufferfish work

[stray fog]

Are corals hard

They look hard and brittle

[marble oasis]

Yes

[mighty parcel]

Kais are more like fish

[marble oasis]

Kais are bugs, they have shells

[mighty parcel]

thanks

[frigid belfry]

theres a really cool unused widow sprite that supports the theory that the "bulb" head weavers have is a mask

its still part of their shell though, which why its painful to remove

[solar oriole]

Has anyone thought about how the Watcher at the Edge and the judges have the same idle stance? both of them are stuck in place until they notice Hornet. It made me think if the Squirm are actually brainwashed karaka grubs. However their body shapes are to different...

[frosty gate]

It has never been a theory tho

[frigid belfry]

they are different bugs, but their origins may be connected biologically (no proof)

[solar oriole]

Its an interesting contrast because both of them are weapon users. So it's like different martial styles.

[marble oasis]

It's always been a mask, the question is whether getting your mask removed is actually like taking off a mask or getting your face ripped off

[frigid belfry]

for weavers we know its the latter, and we didnt exactly know for a while wtf was going on with their heads, and if widow was different in any way (this would explain why herrahs head shape is different too, she might have had her "mask" removed

[frosty gate]

Which probably depends on the bug

[marble oasis]

Know?

[edgy nebula]

eh

[frigid belfry]

"Her body seemed a Weaver's, but her mask had been forcibly removed"- you wouldnt willingly take off a mask, and unless its an external mask provided by the mask maker (or a creature with the ability to change their face), all masks are part of your shell, hornet also calls a mask "part of oneself"

[whole holly]

hey everyone, i gave huntress food but in act 3 she is nowhere to be found as well as her children, why?

[edgy nebula]

she left her home with her children

[unique canopy]

She's just off hunting with her kids. Probably keeping them away from Hornet out of respect.

[frosty gate]

A bit of a letdown honestly

[whole holly]

yup

[solar oriole]

They are both standing still like statues until they notice Hornet. Then there is this "cracking" animation as they spring into action.

[frosty gate]

I wish you could see her hunting randomly around Putrified Ducts and Bilewater

Kinda like you see Sentinel and Garmond randomly

[unique canopy]

Isn't Seth basically the same the first time you meet him?

[edgy nebula]

ah i see, well that doesnt really mean theyre the same creature, team cherry probably just gave them similar roles

this aura is remarkable

[marble oasis]

Interesting point... He's not in his right mind, after all, perhaps he has no mind outside of when his duty calls...?

[cedar skiff]

wow that sand really fucks you up

[edgy nebula]

its coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere

[cedar skiff]

imagining it gets me queasy goddamn

and yet the watcher still awoke

[solar oriole]

True but when we defeat the karaka it is implied that they are covered in coral or crust right? and the lore tablet of the Squirm room says "May our Citadel's holy gilding harden your soft shell." So I thought that they were the same bug but the things they use to harden their shell is different. But again their body type is to different...

[cedar skiff]

i always wondered whether that meant khann was like actually alive just crusted up

[edgy nebula]

i think if they were squirrm and that was true we'd see a body after they crust up

[cedar skiff]

like his post fight animation is the same as the watchers

[hexed kindle]

I love how only 2 ppl gave me feedback on my steel city theory it definitely doesn't make me sad

[cedar skiff]

its so weird maybe the karaka need water to function

[edgy nebula]

likely

[marble oasis]

It's implied all the Hearts are still alive

[edgy nebula]

part of me wonders if the river was magical in a way

[cedar skiff]

even nyleth?

[marble oasis]

She has to delve into the memory of a living being

[frosty gate]

Nyleth is a weird case
She should be alive

In some way

[hexed kindle]

5 hours ago

[solar oriole]

but if you look in the Corrcrust karaka (the orange one that blows out bubbles) Hornet entry is "This bug's fusion with the crust-growth... It seems intentional, though I imagine the union is far from comfortable." So you could say that the crust is somehow taking over their body.

[marble oasis]

All of Shellwood is her seed, so sort of

But the Heart comes out of her monument, so there must be some original part of her in there

It doesn't just manifest out of the memory

[hexed kindle]

This theory its very long

[cedar skiff]

i see

[hexed kindle]

I understand if you dont read it ngl😭😭😭😭 shits a whole essay

[edgy nebula]

could be possible that the corrcrust karaka was a normal bug devoted to the river, who let themselves get consumed by coral to become stronger

[marble oasis]

Holy post formatting batman

I don't think Shamans are AC

[edgy nebula]

we dont have much to assume that the karakas arent pure coral though, unlike allitas or corrcrust karakas who are definitely normal bugs

but the gray color is also the color of aged coral, so they could also very likely be aged karakas whove fused with younger coral

[hexed kindle]

I still feel like they are due to the similarities in shells and a affinity for void

True

[edgy nebula]

she calls the growstone the rock of the birthspear iirc

[ornate pier]

Is nyleth not 100% dead

[hexed kindle]

Idk most likely though

I'll check later as im going home rn

[edgy nebula]

A small gift for you, pale It... for the thought, complex... rock of the home spear... and of Zi's birth. May it aid your further action in this land.

this is what she says about the growstone

[hexed kindle]

"Home spear" implies its apart or from something

[cedar skiff]

theres weaver activity at the most bottom part of mount fay 🤔 💭

where you get memory crystal thats so weirdly random

like right above coral tower too

[edgy nebula]

my theory is that karak's river came from that spot and the weavers interfered, diverting the lava to freeze the water

i like the crackhead theory that the river was memory crystal water

[ornate pier]

Is ts real

Oh wait is that just zi needolin

[hexed kindle]

The growstone is from a higher being i feel like

[ornate pier]

Or sula

[hexed kindle]

Or from a higher beings carcass

[edgy nebula]

Cruel as steel!
The masters' sight...
Escape! Escape!
The spires... and beneath...
Always to watch...
Bound... forever...

sula needolin dialogue

[hexed kindle]

Wait

[edgy nebula]

zi's needolin dialogue mentions being bound by service and being bound by ore

[ornate pier]

Ah

[cedar skiff]

i have been thinking about this. tools and their placement are also important for storytelling and scarcely discussed. havent seen much talk about mount fay lore except fayforn

[hexed kindle]

HOW THE FUCK DOES THE GROWSTONE EVEN REGENERATE

[edgy nebula]

clearly the masters have created infinite resources

[cedar skiff]

like this clearly means memory crystal was made and used by weavers

[hexed kindle]

After zi gives the stone does she start to mention the rebellion stuff or no

[marble oasis]

Used, maybe, not made

[hexed kindle]

I know that but how

[edgy nebula]

the steel city probably has a 2x2 hole in the ground filled with water or some shit

[hexed kindle]

Whats the science behind it

[cedar skiff]

eh yeah youre right but the weavers are crafty

[edgy nebula]

i was joking, i have no clue what it is

[hexed kindle]

I still think the steel city is near the abyss

It would harvest silk/soul then wouldn't it?

[frigid belfry]

so steel made from soul... like a steel. soul?

[edgy nebula]

im betting on it being a moving kingdom

what is this, some kinda steel soul jinn?

[frigid belfry]

on the back of a giant steel turtle

[hexed kindle]

Could explain why the steel seers are in both kingdoms

Your probably right

[frigid belfry]

maybe it just pulls in (whatever it needs) fro the environment

[hexed kindle]

I was thinking abt that

[cedar skiff]

eh not really theres snail shamans everywhere too

[hexed kindle]

Thats why I said the snail shamans are connected to tge ancient civilisation

And somehow they achieved void travel maybe using the delicate flower in some way

As the void is the core of the world

[frigid belfry]

allathat just to die summoning sum flower☝️ 😔

[hexed kindle]

I was about to say its a crackhead theory

[frigid belfry]

void being beneath all things (or at least kingdoms) is directly supported by hornet

we still dont exactly know where tf void comes from

"regrets" makes some sense

[hexed kindle]

Its most likely just a natural phenomenon kinda like how our planets core is magma

[hexed kindle]

Wait...
Go on

[frigid belfry]

ah yes, water, earth, air, and god slaying soul eating substance

[hexed kindle]

Your onto something I can sense it

[edgy nebula]

jiji summons regrets, not void directly, and hornet's regret in her cocoon doesnt seem to be void

[frigid belfry]

both the hunter and the confessor jiji describe shades as "regrets" this theory is kinda loose though

[edgy nebula]

likely referring to jiji, but we dont know

[frigid belfry]

either jinn or jiji

"scurrilous" implies is confessor jiji

yeah its probably jiji

[edgy nebula]

notably sula tries to directly summons void, and doesnt refer to it as regrets or anything, and jiji likely isnt outcasted/being hunted, meaning they dont summon void

[frigid belfry]

void = regrets -> hornet has regrets -> hornet is void

im merebag

[edgy nebula]

i KNEW it was true!!

[cedar skiff]

hold up his writing is this fire

[hexed kindle]

💀💀

[frigid belfry]

ive done it

oh yeah that was another reason why people thought void was just regrets

imagine dying because of guilt

[unique canopy]

Since this is a setting where souls factually exist, and a person's soul and by extension regrets can linger in their corpse after death, what if the void is literally just fossil fuel oil.

[frigid belfry]

pale king is a capitalist

[edgy nebula]

pk shoulda just teamed up with khann

karak got the best military out of any civilization in hk

[frigid belfry]

coral guns

[olive quartz]

i meannn soul is depicted as a vaguely animate glowing white goop and void is depicted as a vaguely animate shadowy goop

i wouldn't be surprised if void is intended to be corrupted soul in some sense

especially since we know from silksong that void has a hankering for soul

potato potato imo

[quartz plinth]

Is it wrong to think that the pilgrims deserved to be subjugated by GMS and the citadel

[olive quartz]

Yeah?

[quartz plinth]

Because oh my god these guys can't do anything

[olive quartz]

that's... the message of the game

[quartz plinth]

I've been thinking about Act 3 and im realizing that there is no hope for pharloom

[olive quartz]

sherma:

[quartz plinth]

All those who could have helped it recover are dead or stupid pilgrims

And the latter can't do anything by themselves, i wonder if they are even Alive

It pisses me off so much

[olive quartz]

hornet is pretty clearly going to help pharloom recover

[quartz plinth]

Sherma didn't even think about tending to the wounds of pilgrims before he got told to, he is no less guilty of being brainless than the rest

[quartz plinth]

She litterally killed the whole kingdom to begin with, and went to save the other responsible for killing the kingdom (Lace)

[olive quartz]

yeah the vast majority of pilgrims we see are literal zombies, and the rest are penniless wretches because uh. They're required to be

[quartz plinth]

"But hornet coudn't have known what the shaman lure was going to do" it doesn't matter she still quite nuked the whole place

And she still saved lace who very clearly deserved to die because her tamtrums contributed to the death of pharloom

[subtle plaza]

Fr i hate hornet

[olive quartz]

sherma was taught his entire life that the citadel was pure magic and would literally heal all wounds by itself

[quartz plinth]

I don't hate hornet but i feel she shoudn't have ended up living in the true ending

[olive quartz]

it's not surprising that he would be lost when he gets to the citadel and it isn't true

[subtle plaza]

So sherma is still braindead

[quartz plinth]

Everyone ahould have died

[olive quartz]

no, sherma was indoctrinated in the religion of a kingdom that doesn't give a shit about him

[quartz plinth]

Silksong is just a reflection of the real world, things get worse eternally and the only real solution is either to die or to live in lethargy under the control of a higher being, its so sad that it's the only real message of the game

[subtle plaza]

.......so he's braindead?

[unique canopy]

Sherma had the sense to actually get off his ass and try when a new possibility was presented to him. That by itself is more than you can say about 99% of Pharloom.

[olive quartz]

and some people in this chat lmfao

[sinful nimbus]

Sherma is one of the few non-evil characters in this game lay off him

[subtle plaza]

No i hate sherma

[quartz plinth]

And his ass almost died in the whiteyard

[sinful nimbus]

I do too but I have standards

[subtle plaza]

Ew

[marble oasis]

Are you sure?

[quartz plinth]

He probably just died after the events of silksong anyways because everyone fucking dies in this game

It doesn't matter what you do or try it always leads to the same

Everyone dies and everhthing is futile

[olive quartz]

I LOVE BEING EDGY FOR NO REASON RAHHHHH IM ENJOYABLE TO BE AROUND

[heavy gyro]

All roads lead to void

[sinful nimbus]

Lucy gets it

[quartz plinth]

Why is hornet even trying to save pharloom if she is aware of this

[subtle plaza]

Real

[marble oasis]

She saved Lace because 1. she owes her a debt and 2. she sees the Knight in her, who she couldn't save

[sinful nimbus]

Silk "Kill half the cast for shock value" Song

[edgy nebula]

all roads lead to the sands of karak, coral gorge, coral tower, coral steps, and the sandsea wastes

[quartz plinth]

No dude im just sahing what i think im not doing this for a bit

[subtle plaza]

Garmond :(

Even flick lives

[quartz plinth]

Hornet was around killing vessels as well i don't buy that she cared for the knight

[sinful nimbus]

Me when I pull up to the survivors camp and there is literally one dude

[marble oasis]

She definitely came to care for the Knight

She even pulled her usual idgaf routine of "I'll not join you in this battle" only to come zipping in to help at the last minute

[heavy gyro]

Flick solos the universe so it's understandable

[quartz plinth]

Is it bad for me to think this way?

[sinful nimbus]

Lace is saved to stop the void haunting

[quartz plinth]

How can i heal from it?

[marble oasis]

This is also true

[sinful nimbus]

And GMS is the only one you can realistically blame for the Void Haunting

[marble oasis]

Hornet wouldn't have been able to escape without GMS' power, which she wouldn't have given had Hornet not been taking Lace with her

[fossil ledge]

It's not, though it is a bit concerning if you feel this way about things in real life too

[quartz plinth]

Well it kinda is how it is now

Things just get worse

[fossil ledge]

Then it sounds like you lack a source of hope for the future IRL

[cursive sinew]

We all do.

Society is fucked

[subtle plaza]

You could try killing abberated picayune

[quartz plinth]

I don't know

I just feel like being affected by the haunting was the best possible ending for everyone in pharloom

No one seemed to be suffering

[olive quartz]

then you're rooting for the zombies in a zombie movie

[fossil ledge]

Things have always been complicated, in no small part because we make it so. Things get bad, then they get better, etc. We just need to make sure we're making steady, small steps towards improvement, and it starts within

[covert river]

srry if this has been answered a million times but i just watched the mossbag video. are there key points that werent mentioned or things that are more up for debate that i should know about?

[subtle plaza]

Yeah but i dont really like a kingdom being controlled like a hivemind by a malicious entity

[edgy nebula]

i remember everyone hating his farsight theory, but other than that i think the video's okay

[fossil ledge]

They were. Pavo describes how it felt to be stuck within the haunting

[quartz plinth]

I don't know man the green flu from l4d and the Fungus from the mid of us won the biological war fair and square, fighting against it was kinda pointless at that point, GMS won too in a way

[covert river]

the one with weavers coming back to pharloom at one point?

[olive quartz]

Hornet: What do you remember of your time caught upon the thread, Pavo?

Oh, ahh. It is difficult... Upsetting even to think. Strange, sad memories, not my own, and my own thoughts smothered amidst the tangle.
If only could choose to connect themself to something grander, that curse may seem a wonder. For myself, it now seems a horror.

[fossil ledge]

Too many to mention, but he got the basics right

[marble oasis]

The red memory thing is wrong

[subtle plaza]

Oh also people were criticizing his view on the red memory sequence

[edgy nebula]

the one relating it to wyrm foresight, i think

[covert river]

that one i was able to figure out

[marble oasis]

[quartz plinth]

All this guy does is to cheer people up for the impossible climb to their deaths im unsure we should trust his word for it

[covert river]

i think he mentioned it in the comments that he made a mistake in that regard

[fossil ledge]

He mean, he is the only one that directly describes his experiences

[olive quartz]

he doesn't regard it as an impossible climb to their deaths

[edgy nebula]

whatd he say about it? i forgot ngl

[subtle plaza]

Same brain cell

[fossil ledge]

Not sure what makes them any less worth listening to than someone else's

[frosty gate]

Whose view?

[quartz plinth]

Didn't saw mossbag's video i just heard that he apparentally turned out to be a bigot witch is really sad

[subtle plaza]

Mossbag's

[covert river]

wait huh i highly doubt that what

[frosty gate]

Ah, haven't really watched the video

[marble oasis]

Hornet is rejecting WL and PK when in reality she's expressing empathy towards her

[quartz plinth]

Stuff about Phantom's pronouns and sexist jokes i think it was

[subtle plaza]

Its pretty good

[fossil ledge]

Is this because of Phantom's gender?

[edgy nebula]

ah

[subtle plaza]

Wait what?????

[covert river]

what did he say about that again

[frosty gate]

Straight to the bingo!

[fossil ledge]

Cause there was just some confusion about Phantom's gender cause the wiki is still working on getting all the sources right

[frosty gate]

Fuck i really gotta finish that card today

[quartz plinth]

But it pretty much is, everyone would.have died when they arrived to the Last judge

[olive quartz]

this is not him being a bigot so much as he being a normal ass guy with little knowledge on the subject matter

[subtle plaza]

Ok is phantom female or non binary

[olive quartz]

well almost everyone. sherma canonically makes it through

[quartz plinth]

There is a Very fine line between being ignorant and just being bigoted and the worst kind of person on earth im not taking any chances with mossbag, i won't be betrayed by a content creator again

[frosty gate]

"Unconfirmed" for the sake of the argument

[covert river]

yea idk im not tryna be parasocial but his server is full of gay and trans ppl and women and its never been an issue

[fossil ledge]

What was the sexist joke?

[olive quartz]

Mournful creature tasked alone to expel the Citadel's choking refuse. Their talent with a longpin is unmatched.

Though grey with age, their frayed form suggested a being strung from Silk, one who welcomed a decisive end in combat over a slow decline.

[quartz plinth]

After we kill last judge

[marble oasis]

They were also NOT happy with him calling the Green Princes twins

[subtle plaza]

Ohh ok

[quartz plinth]

Everyone in songclave made it because last judge was killex

[olive quartz]

no, we can go through the exhaust organ and sherma still makes it to the citadel

[marble oasis]

Reminder that Garmond has more they uses than Phantom

[quartz plinth]

Wow ok yeah he supports incest fuck mossbag

[covert river]

i think he was calling the cogwork dancers twins and not the princes

which is also wrong but yeah

[olive quartz]

the garmond they is pretty clearly a mistake, his first line of dialogue has him using 'he' for himself

[unique canopy]

Enough pilgrims make it to the Citadel that not only are there tons of pilgrims who are part of the choir when we get to the Chambers, but there are also plenty of those choral pilgrims who still have their own mind and aren't Haunted who make it to Songclave

[quartz plinth]

Well we still have the Guy from the daily news, i hope hes doing alright

[marble oasis]

No, it was the princes, but he said "twin princes" and not just twins, which they are

[covert river]

ohhh

[fossil ledge]

Hornet seems to default to 'they' for many NPCs despite seemingly knowing their pronouns

[covert river]

imean he also calls them lovers later on so it was probably a mistake

[frosty gate]

He called the GP twins? That's straight up dumb and I like Mossbag and all, but those dudes are gay

[marble oasis]

They are lovers

[covert river]

silksong JUST came out 😭

[covert river]

yeah the twin thing was prolly a mistake i mean

[marble oasis]

Twin princes as in two halves of a whole set

[frosty gate]

It's been 2 months

[quartz plinth]

It's been a few months already

[covert river]

yeah but thats not a crazy amount of time to try and make a lore vid about the entire game

[quartz plinth]

There is no excuse for this kinda shit

[frosty gate]

Then just don't

I like Mossbag and all, but like, come on

[quartz plinth]

Why is everyone and everything a piece of shit

[covert river]

i mean ok you guys can think hes a bigot if u want ig

[quartz plinth]

Im so mad

[olive quartz]

mossbag is a guy who enjoys yapping first and getting everything correct second

[frosty gate]

I don't think he's a bigot, I just think he's missinformed

[subtle plaza]

Can you guys like, show exactly what is that mossbag said because i'm really shocked abt this

[frosty gate]

As most people are, honestly

[marble oasis]

Ara found dead in miami

[covert river]

well i mean yeah i never claimed otherwise

[quartz plinth]

Does he support AI too like did he use Chat gpt for making his lore video or something

[olive quartz]

he used 'she' for phantom.and got rather defensive about it

[snow sonnet]

He's always dead tho

[covert river]

why are u throwing stuff at the wall rn 😭

[quartz plinth]

Because im having a crisis

[olive quartz]

not bigotry so much as like, dude, stay in your lane

[marble oasis]

Yeah just instead of alive and well he was found dead and well

[covert river]

maybe try having a break

[fossil ledge]

Lucy you might want to take a breather and go for a walk or something

[olive quartz]

^^^^^^^^

[quartz plinth]

This game is so good but thinking about act 3 makes me so mad did team cherry want to give us all depression and existencial dread?

[olive quartz]

Yea

[subtle plaza]

Oh. I mean... i dont think it matters? Phantom's gender is pretty ambigous

[olive quartz]

they did that with hollow knight too

[marble oasis]

They don't even know about the invincible hope found just beneath the thin veneer of despair

[quartz plinth]

Whats the point of anything we do in the game when it all ends up with "The person responsible for killing almost everyone does everything to save the child of the Tyrant that was opressing a whole kingdom for NO reason"

[fossil ledge]

Mossbag presumed female because GMS, Lace and all Weavers appear to be female and go by she/her if I recall correctly

[snow sonnet]

A very reoccuring theme of act 3 is rebirth

[fossil ledge]

Also cause of the Exhaust Organ vat needolin dialogue

[marble oasis]

Except runt, that was just regular birth

[quartz plinth]

Well fuck them aleast hollow knight ended up with the infection dying out and some people were still alive

[covert river]

i feel like the death is pretty comparable

[marble oasis]

He wasn't exactly defensive, he just explained his reasoning when asked

[quartz plinth]

In pharloom everyone just fucking dies or gets overtaken by the void, witch means now we have to realize that the infection was a good thing and.that all the vessels and void creatures are evil creatures because all they can do is destroy and kill

[subtle plaza]

Yeah, i feel like thats fair

[olive quartz]

well ambiguous in the sense that one line of dialogue may or may not include lace calling hornet 'phantom'. phantom is pretty concretely non-gendered everywhere else

[covert river]

i think you might be being just a tad bit pessimistic

which is a lil crazy for an already sad game

[quartz plinth]

Maybe but this is all really pissing me off

[olive quartz]

the assumption that phantom is female stems from preexisting biases which should be acknowledged in a way mossbag probably simply does not know how to

[marble oasis]

WE have to realise the Infection was a good thing???

[sinful nimbus]

???

How do you manage to get me to disagree with Act 3 hate 💔

[quartz plinth]

It is certainly better than the black ooze that Kills anything that isn't like it

[olive quartz]

silksong ends with a bunch of void creatures saving hornet from being destroyed and killed lmfao

[unique canopy]

"Everyone just fucking dies" except for the tons of characters who don't die who can now live freely and rebuild after the Haunting is over and the void is suppressed

[fossil ledge]

I'd argue the kill count of void beings is pretty low aside of the Knight and whichever haunted individuals were still left alive in Pharloom

[quartz plinth]

The only reason they did that was because they are silbings if hornet was not their sister then they would have just let her die down there 😭

[sinful nimbus]

"Everyone" is hyperbole a lot of people do die

[marble oasis]

It wasn't even the Void's fault it just got transmitted along GMS' strings

[sinful nimbus]

Like Benjin and Crull 💔

[fossil ledge]

The Knight saves Lace too, no?

[subtle plaza]

I mean, most of gms's creations are explicitly female. (Lace, the weavers etc.) So ig from that mossbag also assumed that phantom must also be female.

[quartz plinth]

So the only reason Hornet gets to live a Happy ending after destroying the most advanced civilization of the world from being ever rebuilt into something better, was because she was silbings with the mass murdered tyranical force that just destroys

[olive quartz]

fair fair

[olive quartz]

hornet hardly destroys the citadel

[quartz plinth]

She litterally NUKES IT with the shaman lure

[olive quartz]

she kills grand mother silk but she didn't run the place

[sinful nimbus]

Phantom is explicitly a girl

[marble oasis]

most advanced civilisation of the world
She didn't do SHIT to Hallownest

[olive quartz]

...have you only experienced this game through cutscene compilations?

[olive quartz]

works cited?

[quartz plinth]

You seen how the whole place ended up on act 3? Do you think anyone surviving in pharloom will ever be able to rebuild it?

[sinful nimbus]

She's called sister by Lace

[marble oasis]

ambiguous who's talking there to be fair

[olive quartz]

Exhaust Organ Needolin dialogue: She spun us to fade... She spun us to break... Why us, sister? Why us? It is unclear who is speaking to whom.

[sinful nimbus]

Its pretty obvious that Lace is speaking

[quartz plinth]

No i played this game for 43 hours the first time around im pretty sure of what im saying isn't me allucinating

[subtle plaza]

I... dont think the achievement name should be taken literally

[olive quartz]

works cited?