sk-lore

[rough ingot]

thats basically lace tho lol

cuz shade just absorbs all the soul and eats it

[fathom hill]

like rn even the shade and coccoon mechanics are kind of muddled in canon

[rough ingot]

(In my headcanon) the shade and coccoon are canon, not the waking up on bench part

[fathom hill]

yah but again the explanation has never been clear

[random aspen]

hrnet wakes up like her death was a dream

[fathom hill]

for a roguelike youd have to be a bit clearer me think

anyways tc aint making a roguelike this is pointless

that we know of

[rough ingot]

right

[fathom hill]

fearless fox will be a 3d shooter believe

[rough ingot]

hollow point like?

or ultrakill

[fathom hill]

cod

[sinful nimbus]

TC should make an action RPG where you grind enemies all day like Silk and Soul

[rough ingot]

call of duty?!

[fathom hill]

yah

[rough ingot]

Imagine if someone modded a lobby u can enter for both silksong and hollow knight

[sinful nimbus]

Only thing I want in Fearless Fox is for it to be purple themed...

It just gives off that vibe yknow

[rough ingot]

menu stule themes, like the difference between grimm troupe theme (hk) and abyss theme (ss)

Like ppl made customknight for a reason

[fathom hill]

the name gives the purple vibe?

[rough ingot]

fox is orange

[sinful nimbus]

Yea

[rough ingot]

Ur thinking of voltwyrm

[fathom hill]

foxes are orange yeah but yknow

[sinful nimbus]

It could be purple and orange those colors can be nice together

[fathom hill]

no cant do they already used purple for silksong

time to pick another color

[rough ingot]

They picked grey for hk and vibrance for ss

[sinful nimbus]

Not enough vibrance

[rough ingot]

gosh are we gonna need sunglasses for the new game

[sinful nimbus]

Give me Coral Gorge and real Verdania or give me death

[rough ingot]

i thought i needed those for absolute radiance

[fathom hill]

even then silksong stills feels gloomy most of the time

maybe they will use even more vibrance for the non hk ip

[rough ingot]

then it was just yellow on yellow bg and light on light bg

[fathom hill]

But whos to know really

[rough ingot]

like lost lace is black on black on dark grey

[fathom hill]

oh but tbf thats cuz we on the abyss

[rough ingot]

yea

[sinful nimbus]

Rad feels a lot more readable than LL

[rough ingot]

i want to see wth im doing

[sinful nimbus]

She's larger tbf

[rough ingot]

unless its the orb throw or shes offscreen

[fathom hill]

do you think tc made lost lace like that cuz people already criticized not being able to see absrad in hk

[rough ingot]

orb throw can catch you if it spawns, in ur ass, and on the yellow part of the bg

[sinful nimbus]

Eventually you just start dodging orbs through vibes alone (Or DDark )

[rough ingot]

The uppush on ddark has shoved me into the face spikes more than once

the climb laser is too fast in absrad, and too slow in rad

i get too greedy in radiance and end up in it and in absrad i get point blanked

Also should we petition for a hk and silksong lore thread? Since we all wana connect both games together and it swamps this chat

[sinful nimbus]

HK talk is allowed here too

[rough ingot]

yea

I just know a couple ppl who played sulksong and not hk

i told them theyre gonna missing out on the true ending

and my friend didnt even know the protagonist’s name

also, good (k)night lore chat, hope you guys all find your way through the mist, remember to play the needolin near the silk flies, and they will guide you home.

[wise sand]

I treat this channel as the main hk/sk lore channel and I pretend that the hk lore channel is stuck in Sept 3rd

[rough ingot]

ok

[sinful nimbus]

You are allowed to spoilertag Silksong stuff there too if its relevant to an HK convo

There was like a week where that wasn't the case and it lead to silly stuff like people having to claim Herrah wasn't a weaver

[rough ingot]

herrah is drapemite weaver -reddit

also gn

[timber pond]

Interesting

[unique canopy]

This plays everywhere in Red Memory, so it's not specific to Herrah, if you were wondering, since you're where she was.

[timber pond]

Still intersting. If its a combination of all three memory perspectives, it implies that maybe White Lady and Vespa Might have an Inkling about pharloom, depending on who's saying what. (which we cant really determine)

Im curious if there was Larger political connections between distant Kingdoms than we might not realize

[unique canopy]

They had to get routes away from Pharloom somehow, and that might put them into contact with the places the Weavers settled to make sure they were safe places to settle before they fled.

[craggy smelt]

these probably represent Hornet's own memories about all the things she is, or has been expected of her
all the perspectives and possibilities

[unique canopy]

That said, we do know from HK that the Deepnest Weavers refused to bend the knee to PK

[dawn sluice]

one of them DID go to the steel city and got staked to service

[trail wagon]

Isn't it specific to Hornet?

I mean Hornet is the Princess, and based on what Herrah and the Weavers themselves say in the RM it seems the Weavers of Hallownest expected Hornet to become their queen, and also they might've thought she would confront the GMS (which she eventually did, but not the way they expected it to happen most likely)

[unique canopy]

Yeah it's all referring to Hornet, I was saying it wasn't something Herrah specifically was saying to her through the Needolin.

Because the screenshots were in Herrah's room.

[wise sand]

An angel looses its wings everytime somebody says this btw

[trail wagon]

Btw, it was discussed previously, but I just came up with some specifics for a theory about Karak. Some people are saying Karak dried out because the water can no longer reach it because it used to come from Mt. Fay and now it's frozen. Idk if anybody has already pointed it out, but I think the Voltnest is one of the major proofs. I've always seen this location as an underwater area and I felt like the electro worms look a lot like some molluscs or underwater creatures in general. Now, looking at the map, I realized that it's very likely where water used to come from

[jovial talon]

What does groal whos supposedly just a strong regular bug being able to learn vengeful spirit from a shaman mean for the lore on how soul works

I thought only the vessels had control over soul like that since it's a receptacle and has the ability to store it

And the snail shamans because they're funny little guys

[craggy smelt]

the Soul Sanctum in Hallownest also learned how to extract Soul, including spells from snail shaman for their own use

Groal and the stilkin have a similar setup in Bilehaven, with jars of soul

[jovial talon]

Right I forgot abt that

Mr master got the dive

[craggy smelt]

Caretaker also mentions his cousin going there in hopes of forming an alliance
they might have taught the stilkin a few things, and then got betrayed

otherwise, Groal and the stilkin were just more capable than anyone realized

[jovial talon]

My understanding of that was that the shaman just got jumped and mugged as soon as he stepped foot there

[humble peak]

yet they never bothered to actually attack, did they?

losers

[unique canopy]

The still living shaman in HK describes all the base spells and descending dark as being things his family members possessed and were able to use.

[craggy smelt]

seemed like they were poised too, talking about how they now had the power to punish
hornet showing up foiled all that

[craggy smelt]

we don't really have a timeline, the Caretaker says this:

I knew the bug, in 'is prime, long time back. Braver'n most, and as little a fan of this Citadel as you yourself.
Went seekin' alliance with those basic bugs of the swamps. Thought they'd both gain from the union... Scheming defiance, or some such stupidity!
Now he's as dead as he was daft! Don't go tryin' ta make friends in Pharloom, bellringer. Nothin' good comes of it.

[humble peak]

bro they were there for ages

"long time back"

[jovial talon]

I've seen people argue here abt the validity of snail shamans dialogue in hollow knight since apparently some of it went against lore established elsewhere

My theory takeaway from that is that they probably wrote the shamans dialogue early into development idk

[unique canopy]

They did have power to punish, they just only did so to intruders upon their domain, hence all the dead bodies and strung up corpses

[timber pond]

Technically what he says Isnt Lies, but they Feel like Half Truths

[craggy smelt]

the Hallownest shaman doesn't recognize the Abyss Shriek, and says it came from some place his people never thought to look (it's a Void spell from the AC in the Abyss)
some people interpret this as the snails not knowing anything about the Void
but they readily recognize the Descending Dark void spell you get from their relative
so it could just be that they specifically don't recognize the AC's work and haven't been the Abyss - Pharloom Shamans also mention they haven't seen it

[jovial talon]

After getting their water quality ruined the stilkin tribe just became haters for the love of the game

[timber pond]

and thats how they are in silks ong too

[unique canopy]

The snail shaman is unreliable in some aspects, not because it goes against later lore, but because he knows less than he thinks he does. For example, he doesn't know any of his family members are actually dead, and while he personally never ventured into the Abyss he also was not aware two of his family members had access to void-upgraded spells. The Pharloom snails (on top of being from a different kingdom altogether) utilizing the void doesn't contradict this.

[craggy smelt]

yeah, it could also be that the hallownest snail just doesn't know as much as others do

[jovial talon]

I'm just like mentioning para paraphrasing it

I saw people argue about it I don't even remember how it ended

Or what their points were

[timber pond]

it never Ends >:)

I just dont trust everything the snail Shaman in hollow knight says

[craggy smelt]

some argue its a retcon
but given that two snails in Hallownest seem to conjure forth Void, and that we learn in Silksong that snails can conjure the Void, it's likely that they were implied to always be able to
Silksong just made it much more explicit

[jovial talon]

The snails are just some shady guys too

[timber pond]

When the pagan is all powerful i just cant prove it......

[unique canopy]

The first step of understanding lore through dialogue is recognizing that some characters talk about things they don't actually know about.
The second step is recognizing some of them are actively lying to you.

[craggy smelt]

hallownest snail only gives you a spell so you'll clean out his pest problem and locks you up to do it
these guys are jerks

[timber pond]

They cant really Conjure it. they Just use a Soul Portal. They are more like Alchemists, They dont "Control" elements, they just use them

[unique canopy]

It's like Hornet's dialogue to Lace at the initial Citadel encounter. She recognizes all the signs of a land under the thrall of a pale being, but she doesn't know Pharloom's history, so all she can do is extrapolate and assume based on what she does know.

[craggy smelt]

that's why conjure means - call upon, summon, etc.

[timber pond]

Well it gets muddy when The vassals can Conjure it in the most LITTERAL sense

So i would use Summon over Conjure really

[craggy smelt]

Sula used a lot of bodies for their ritual, I wonder if it also involved a lot of Soul?

[timber pond]

The Void Might Need "vessels" as in .litteral bodies to mainatin its form

Like a shade or something

[jovial talon]

I imagine the snails just tamper with void and learned to use it but aren't like made of it or have natural void magic within them

[craggy smelt]

gotta have that shell
Summoned Savior is a shitty vessel knock-off

[craggy smelt]

yeah, exactly, agreed

[timber pond]

For it to be anything,it seems to either Need some kinda "soul Mould" or Like some bloke to Inhabit

[unique canopy]

The snails try using all forms of power, void included but not exclusively.

[jovial talon]

Maybe somehow void makes it easier to channel soul spells, the knight was firing away vengeful spirits perfectly right after unlocking it like little guys gotta have a natural advantage at it

[timber pond]

Its thier snail shells

When you hit the snail shells After they die post everbloom, it gives off soul

[jovial talon]

Oh damn

[timber pond]

Thier shells alow them to channel soul in thier own uniqe way

Why shamans have diffrent spells probably

[jovial talon]

I was thinking there's gotta be some learning curve for like casting spells and stuff and maybe vessels are naturally gifted at it because of their physiology in some way

[timber pond]

Thier needolin also talks alot about spiraling

[craggy smelt]

we see Void hunger for Soul and take on its form, mimicking spells, the Haunting, maybe even bugs themselves
could be why TK picks spells up so quickly, just gotta nom that soul-spell
their Shade even learns to use purely 'Void' versions of spells

[limpid summit]

Yeah they have some kind of “spiral focus” through they shells

[timber pond]

I think vessels can just absorb a variety of powers tbh

[craggy smelt]

got that Void bind

[timber pond]

Like they dont react to lifeblood

[jovial talon]

They're really good at absorbing

[timber pond]

Can absorb radiance , eat Spells From powerful mages ect.

[craggy smelt]

PK mentions it has great potential
its the essence of nothingness, but it can become so much

[timber pond]

Yeah because Nothingness can have something put in it

Sea Sponge

[craggy smelt]

if you have nothing, then it can be replaced with anything

[timber pond]

What if snail shamans have thier own higher being

The Great "Shell" thats just his name

[craggy smelt]

snigher being

(no, that sucks)

[timber pond]

Uplifted all normal ass snails.

[unique canopy]

Instead of a conscious being, there's just a bubbling pool of primordial raw liquid soul somewhere, and a bunch of snails accidentally wandered into it and got uplifted that way

[craggy smelt]

that's a neat thought

[wise sand]

Unn's cousin

[craggy smelt]

cousuun

[edgy nebula]

the river was in the coral tower

you see it behind khann in the memory, and we know this is the river from the lore tablet

At water's source,
And coral's heart,
Our lord born last to rule.

cool theory though, it's possible there were multiple water sources

[foggy fractal]

I wonder how the last judge became the last judge given what we know of judges

Squirrms and all that

[craggy smelt]

probably just being the biggest and strongest

they park their best at the front door to become the 'last judge' that anyone faces before reaching the citadel

[foggy fractal]

I'm watching back on some last judge gameplay and noticed that where she holds the weapon thingy isn't conistent, typical tc move just mirroring the sprites lmao

[foggy fractal]

yeah the last judge isn't because she's the last surviving judge but the last one you encounter before you can reach the citadel

all this theorizing before silksong as to why she's the last judge only for it to be the most obvious answer lmao

[edgy nebula]

she old as shit

[olive quartz]

nvm im stupid lmao i just looked at her again

[craggy smelt]

I thought you were gonna fight, like, two other judge bosses first

[foggy fractal]

i thought we're gonna a whole history of judges 😭

only for there to be the common enemy and last judge

[snow sonnet]

Shoutout to those pipes we spent years discussing (ok tbf that one is on us)

Also the lace 2 flowers just being hype moments and aura lol

[hushed crater]

Yea this game's lore is way more simple then expected

[fringe hemlock]

new here, do i need to spoiler my messages for some theory discussion?

[snow sonnet]

no

[fringe hemlock]

sweet potatoes

[sterile jacinth]

This channel is living proof of that not being true lol

[hushed crater]

Well yea but I expected it to be even harder to understand

A lot more is more straightforward then the first

[sterile jacinth]

It is a little more straightforward than hollow knight but it does still tell a lot through subtexts

You gotta pay attention still

[hushed crater]

Yea I hope they expand with more secretive one in dlcs

[sterile jacinth]

I personally prefer the more in your face story

Playing through hollow knight blind is… really confusing lol. Both in gameplay and in lore

[craggy smelt]

I found myself with fewer questions after finishing Silksong
if that makes any sense

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that lol. I actually prefer it

[hushed crater]

Well everyone has an opinion

[sterile jacinth]

Got me way more interested in the lore than if I had just played hollow knight blind

[hushed crater]

Yea blind play through on the first leaves almost everyone confused

[fringe hemlock]

im just toying with the idea rn
how lifeblood got to pharloom.
So Prof. Xylotol..Xylon...Walter White says he found it in salty sea on the edge of pharloom, and alot of people assume this is the pooptown that was cut from the trailer. however, i beleive it is actually the area that later becomes fleatopia. Weavnest Murglin has a weaver relic that says "Sister, spider, sat between salt and stone" so we know that the area of bilewater was once salt water. water that would go have come from the fleatopia area. but how would life blood have made its way into those water? all the way from Hallownest? perhaps its tracked in on the foot of one of its former residents, Mr. Mushroom! who was unaware of his hitchicker as the mushrooms are shown to have some natural resistance to the Radiance, it wouldnt be a stretch to say they say resistance extends to other infections, such as that of the lifeblood

[hushed crater]

Especially how much comes from random dialogue that disappears after you get a new item

[hushed crater]

Imagine it was brought there by some random bug that didn't want to get rid of his lifeblood drug infection after it got banned in hallownest

[craggy smelt]

I mean no offense, but I hate this
(because I want pooptown to be added as a DLC, along with the Lifeblood Spire area that was going to be near pooptown)

[sterile jacinth]

It could be the case that lifeblood doesn’t originate from hallownest

[hushed crater]

Yea it probably doesn't

[fringe hemlock]

i mean, lifeblood was banned before hornet was even born. wouldve been hanging around for a long time if thats the case

[fringe hemlock]

pooptown 2029 for sure

[sterile jacinth]

I can see that. Especially considering butterflies are a huge part of the lifeblood motif

The only other butterflies we see are that one in city of tears (I forgot her name) and possibly trobbio

Yeaa

[fringe hemlock]

this one is a big ol stretch. but i think the lifeblood creature is a void creature that has become heavily integrated with lifeblood(simple cause its main color is black)

[craggy smelt]

Trobbiooo~!

[sterile jacinth]

There’s a lot of bugs with black bodies and white eyes that have nothing to do with void

[craggy smelt]

I prefer the notion that lifeblood beast is the source of lifeblood, a higher being that dreams it like how Radiance dreamed the infection

[fringe hemlock]

here's the real question. eyes or mustache?

[sterile jacinth]

Yea I think there’s a higher being somewhere that controls it but unlike rads infection coming from anger and therefore being very aggressive this one is a lot more tricky, pretending to be something beneficial while instead hijacking the users mind

[fringe hemlock]

it looks so much more mustache to me

[sterile jacinth]

They literally emote

Where else would his eyes be 😭

[fringe hemlock]

that probably makes the most sense. but i like the idea that Joni was locked in there after having spread lifeblood and whatever was in there was given access to joni's stash

[craggy smelt]

Zylotol was on Joni's speedial

[fringe hemlock]

"hey man, you got more of the stuff.."

[sterile jacinth]

Zylotol is a foolish scientist while Joni seems to be a fanatic or zealot

[craggy smelt]

Zy got pretty cultish-sounding towards the end there, come to think of it

he basically speed-ran joni's arc

god, now I can't stop thinking up slang terms for plasmium
some of them are pretty gross

[fringe hemlock]

speaking of actually. when would hornet have seen the effects of lifeblood in Hallownest?
cause she came around at the end of hallownest's lifetime, so they wouldve had a lid on it a long time before, unless it Spread out wildly after the events of hallow knight and thats where she saw it from?

[sterile jacinth]

Omg lmao

I can’t think of another foolish scientist off the top of my head but Walter white gradually slips into depravity and he uh breaks bad while Zylotol is messing with things he shouldn’t in the name of science. He actually seems to have pretty good intentions

[fringe hemlock]

me after pumping 9 shots of plasmium

[sterile jacinth]

Mods are gonna take you behind the building and shoot you in the back of the head btw (gifs aren’t allowed)

[lone folio]

Maybe, I will continue believing in my theory and I will continue waiting for pharloom bay dlc to give us an answer

[fringe hemlock]

he was distribution

[craggy smelt]

it's all coming together

[fringe hemlock]

oops

[lone folio]

Zango is our summoned saviour

Maybe he is the butterfly and he will go through metamorphosis

[fringe hemlock]

i think Zote was the silkfly that freed hornet at the start of the game

[lone folio]

Zango seems like the most powerful creature in HK right now.

[craggy smelt]

the highest being

[lone folio]

Yes

[lone folio]

He metamorphosisesized

[fringe hemlock]

a simple transformation for a being of his stature

[lone folio]

Indeed

Highest being indeed

[craggy smelt]

it would be cool if Zy had started to sprout some extra eyes at the very end of his quest
hinting that becoming a 'source' might turn him into another lifeblood beast

[lone folio]

Wikis never lie

Trust me

[fringe hemlock]

while lifeblood does seem to have some dream association, i dont think its as strong at propagation through non-physical means, on account of it actually being able to be contained whereas the Radiance was not

but it is capable, as in godhome its cocoons can appear

[lone folio]

Lifebloods infection is much more of a choice for bugs

Though Hornet does say it's alluring

Yk what lifeblood is just a metaphor for drugs

[fringe hemlock]

i think the wormways transformation does suggest once its in you, its over(for mortal bugs)

[craggy smelt]

it's more subtle and insidious

it only spread as fast as it did in the Wormways because Zy and Zango were actively seeding it and injecting it into the beasts

[fringe hemlock]

true

i do wonder if ingestion is enough though

it'd have to be right

[craggy smelt]

you probably have to do a lot of it for a long time normally
everything about Zy's process was accelerated

[lone folio]

I mean in a small enough dose (very small like not even one mask worth of it) it probably gives you the feeling of being slightly stronger and then eventually you start taking more and more for more of that feeling and if you use enough it will start benefiting you until it fully takes over

[hexed kindle]

Lifeblood is healthy in small amounts like most drugs we use but In large amounts its unhealthy

[lone folio]

Like 8 injections of the stuff can actually make Hornet overdosed??

[lone folio]

Mhm

[hexed kindle]

Yeah

She can only handle it due to her wyrm blood

[fringe hemlock]

i think any amount for a normal bug is enough to cause infection, atleast in time

[hexed kindle]

Well yeah

Also its important to note Joni and whatever race he was from most likely had immunity

[lone folio]

Probably, it's still mostly a plant kind of thing that wants to spread

[hexed kindle]

Due to him having 0 indicators of lifeblood overdose

Idk how lifeblood is connected to the abyss so much tho in hk

[fringe hemlock]

its kinda, but plants can basically be animals in HK. the seeds inside of the cocoons seems atleast somewhat autonomous

[hexed kindle]

I think it might just be a motif to compare to the radiant infection

[hexed kindle]

I feel like there is a 50/50 chance of a lifeblood higher being

[fringe hemlock]

radiance=Sun
lifeblood=Moon

[hexed kindle]

If your saying "but the abyss creature" that shit is most likely retconned and seems more say infected

[hexed kindle]

True

[fringe hemlock]

Hallow Knight: moon landing confirmed

[lone folio]

The radiances infection is very similar as in they both have the little scuttle seeds and both make giant growths appear on bugs, they are very clearly maybe not related but similar. Another reason for my belief in the butterfly Hb since butterflies are related to moths

[hexed kindle]

Yeah

Also joni is a butterfly i think

[lone folio]

Uhhh

[hexed kindle]

Maybe probably who knows

[heavy gyro]

Joni is a beetle

[lone folio]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Blue_Child_Joni

She's looks like a beetle if anything

[hexed kindle]

True

Long ass antennas

[heavy gyro]

Marissa and trobbio are butterflies though

[hexed kindle]

Where did the grey mourner come from

[fringe hemlock]

radiance seems much more amorphus in its growths, just making blobs of stuff wherever. whereas lifeblood is more self contained, making vine and fruiting bodies for itself

[dire lynx]

"lands serene"

[lone folio]

🤷‍♂️

[fringe hemlock]

Florida

[hearty bolt]

I wonder if deepnest really was retconned in silksong to just be a home of the weavers considering in hk herrah's village and the weavernest are quite far from each other

plus nowhere in hk was it mentioned that hornet was child of a weaver, just of herrah the beast

[hexed kindle]

Maybe where she got the everbloom?

[hearty bolt]

Next game is gonna be about the city of steel and lands serene, right? It's gotta be

[lone folio]

Some parts of deepnest could be retconned

[dire lynx]

confirmed to be the case

[hexed kindle]

Didn't see that message

[heavy gyro]

Plot twist: the city of steel is the lands serene

[hearty bolt]

It could work as the capital of the lands serene perhaps

[hexed kindle]

The steel people are more connected to the void if anything

Maybe steel people and pale people racism

[hearty bolt]

yeah, and the delicate flowers keep the void at bay

so it's very likely

[fringe hemlock]

the butterfly x moths thing is actually pretty good

[hexed kindle]

What if the steel city is near the abyss like incredibly close but they live in a pocket of land which is the lands serene

[hearty bolt]

funky how a silk version of the everbloom is so insanely durable to only break after a dive in the abyss, a fight against a void-full boss and then a failed escape from the abyss

[heavy gyro]

Maybe it is very delicate in hollow knight because the knight is void

[hearty bolt]

nah hornet has some lines about its regular form generally being very delicate lol

[hexed kindle]

Yeah

The steel city is most likely incredibly advanced aswell

[craggy smelt]

what if it's more liquid metal manipulation and less like pharloom's cogwork technology

[hexed kindle]

Also I wonder if they sold out the weaver or they just found the weaver

[hexed kindle]

Pharloom is like steam punk stuff

[craggy smelt]

yeah, I hate those steam guys

[hexed kindle]

No steam punk the astethic

Nvm

[craggy smelt]

right
like those steam jets in all the pipes and things

[fringe hemlock]

lifeblood seems to make more fundamental changes to the infected to the bug structure than Radiance, like how lifeblood "heals" is likely part of how it can morph a creatures actual flesh.
maybe im forgetting, but the bugs in the wormways seem more changed physically than anything the radiance did(which just made them bigger and grow puss) though do correct me if there is an example

[craggy smelt]

hate that shit

[hexed kindle]

All lifeblood afflicted creatures in the worm ways are all bloated and fat

Oozing with lifeblood

[hexed kindle]

Fair enough

[fringe hemlock]

yes yes but this seems like a bigger change than just that

like its body is melting kinda

[hexed kindle]

Did the radiance ever do shit like this???

Like to this amount

[craggy smelt]

never got quite that bad

[fringe hemlock]

it is a bit unfair, cause we dont get alot of before and after with the radiance

[craggy smelt]

infected could bloat up with cysts, but didn't flat out mutate

[hexed kindle]

I think its more because the radiance breaks down bugs like a normal infection

Lifeblood is more like a parasite then

[fringe hemlock]

yup

[craggy smelt]

lifeblood truly changes something

[dire lynx]

most extreme morph i can think of for radiance infection is the traitor lord

[hexed kindle]

This game has so much alien/xenomorph influence holy shit

[fringe hemlock]

it could be that the radiance also wanted to actually like, rule over things, so didint want to damage them too much

[hexed kindle]

Also lifebloods leaves if thats the best word seem more alive than the orange blobs

[craggy smelt]

well, she kinda fucked that up
the infection is corrosive and eventually kills things
only sometimes reanimating their husks as undead

[fringe hemlock]

average Australian wildlife

[hexed kindle]

Yh but I might just be over analysing

And making up dumb stuff

Imma go shower rq ill be back

[craggy smelt]

once I thought those areas were so wonderfully beautiful...
now I'm worried

[fringe hemlock]

hmm, true, its tickling my brain, cause raw lifeblood in the enviroment seems alot more stable than radiance, yet it also seems to phsically change its infectedalot more

joni's repose is also suggestedto be adream area right?

oh yeye

[craggy smelt]

I wonder if the Wormways will become an area like the Lifeblood Core

[fringe hemlock]

got it mixed

[fringe hemlock]

i dont think so, unless dlc gives an act 4, there wouldnt be time for it to grow more

though it did absolutly explode with change after the void entered pharloom

[craggy smelt]

not necessarily something we'd see in-game, just in time

before Hornet leaves she's like 'Forge Daughter, invent some flamethrowers, send some guys there'

[hidden crater]

I will never see this place the same way

[fringe hemlock]

i wonder if the butterflies are the endgame lifecycle for the lifeblood, its roots grow them but they dont do anything,but as seen here, they do detach and fly off eventually

[hidden crater]

I thought lifeblood areas were cool but NOT ANYMORE

Weird how the knight can have over 2000 lifeblood masks and still not overdose

[craggy smelt]

can't really take purchase in a dead body, maybe

[hidden crater]

Lifeblood being lifeblood I guess

[fringe hemlock]

i think its both that they both dont really have a "body" and more an amorphous liquid, but also they kinda built for absorbing stuff

[fringe hemlock]

it kinda can, the Jesse Pinkmin guy is dead in act 1-2 and then is animated in act 3

maybe he was just sleepy

[craggy smelt]

yeah, maybe

[fringe hemlock]

Mr Mushroom is behind all of this, i know it, i just cant prove it yet

[craggy smelt]

shame on you
slandering his good name

[fringe hemlock]

i saw a comment saying lifeblood and radiance are inverse of eachother
radiance takes over your mind, then your body
lifeblood takes over your body, then your mind

[fringe hemlock]

actually this makes alot of sense
the Knight doesnt really have a body for the lifeblood to integrate itself into, so when the knight is hit it just sort of comes off and cant be healed.
where in hornet if she OD's it is integrated into he body and will continue to mend her wounded flesh

[hexed kindle]

Now you see them as infectious parasites

[hidden crater]

NUUUUURSE, NUUUUUURSE

THIS ONE NURSE ITS EYES ARE WIDE OPEN

[hushed crater]

Do you guys think there is a connection between the grim troupe and the fire cult in parloom because we can see that the hearth is made from or resembles burnable fabric kinda like the father of flame is made of wood and the designed of the side characters in the grim troupe and the flame cultists are very similar and of course both use the power of flames

[hidden crater]

One goes around dead kingdoms, the other just love worshipping a huge fire totem

[hushed crater]

Well yea but maybe they tried to replicate the power after they saw grim in the past and in some way achieved it

[fringe hemlock]

you can probably tell by my name, i was huffing massive copium for this theory. but tbh, i dont think so

[maiden meteor]

Grimm troupe seems to have a bit more complicated ritual than self immolation

[lone folio]

I wish there was something but it doesn't seem to be the case

[abstract rivet]

where’s the place that makes Greymoor rain?

like some segments are covered by Sinner’s Road

Some segments are Wisp Thicket and if you don’t count that its the underworks thats top of Greymoor

how does it rain

[half zenith]

Who knows

[hearty bolt]

I still find the whole having and acquiring more masks to tank damage somewhat odd.

Like, what's up with the ancient masks.

Hornet in HK didn't even use masks, she just had a health pool

Or is it just a gameplay thing with no lore implications

[half zenith]

Gameplay thing probably

Thoughts: in light of Zango’s fate, I really wanna write an angst fic where Hornet Comes Back Wrong after a botched attempt to heal her from a mortal injury.

[hearty bolt]

and why are there so many shards of the same kind of masks scattered throughout pharloom and hollow knight

[half zenith]

Like- the fact that Lifeblood can do that seems like ripe fuel for angst that the fandom is sleeping on

[craggy smelt]

ancient masks are said to strengthen shells, so they're probably not, like, literally a bunch of masks she's wearing, they just toughen her natural shell
(which is also described as a mask )

they're implied to be remnants of the ancient civilization, those guys were all over the place

[half zenith]

Zango’s reanimating was entirely incidental, a corpse left in proximity to lifeblood -but a more purposeful use of it as an attempt to heal or revive a loved one could be a rich source of angst

[subtle plaza]

That sounds really cool

[half zenith]

Yeah. Like I’m thinking that what happens is that whoever finds Hornet doesn’t know Lifeblood can reanimate corpses and doesn’t realize they’re too late; they’re just scrambling for the nearest healing item they can find. It’s immediately apparent something’s gone horribly wrong

[hexed kindle]

I doubt it as the father of the flame uses silk for its flames

Plus they have completely different ideologies

And cycles of life

[half zenith]

Thank you! I’m thinking for this fic concept that Hornet comes back as a shambling zombie just like Zango did. Her loved ones immediately see something’s gone horribly wrong, but write it off/deny it as a lifeblood overdose, and when they can’t, they keep her around in denial/in hope that they can fix her. Grief is a powerful drug indeed

[hexed kindle]

Plus their flames are way different

[fringe hemlock]

ultimately, the father of the flame simply lacks the rizz

[half zenith]

But that is not Hornet, that is a corpse that will not stay down. She doesn’t eat or sleep. Doesn’t speak coherently. Doesn’t do anything autonomously except shamble about.

Except for when there is danger. Lifeblood husks have a self preservation instinct and will attempt to defend themselves, lashing out violently against percieved threats.

How ironic and unfortunate that self-preservation is the one thing a lifeblood husk remembers, because when Hornet’s loved ones realize they need to let her rest, she won’t take too kindly to being put back down.

[orchid trail]

Do fleas have bombs inside of them

[half zenith]

?????

Anyway if anyone has thoughts on the lifeblood zombie Hornet fic idea, LMK. I really think it’s a cool angsty idea

[hushed crater]

Ummm that explains everything

[hushed crater]

Sounds cool but isn't she resistend to it

[half zenith]

She is, when she’s alive. But a corpse is a corpse

Lifeblood mutates and has concerning effects on living creatures. But with Zango it simply reanimated his corpse

[hushed crater]

Ok I guess but who are the loved ones like I can only think of lace maybe like a sister and who else everyone is dead or just saw her like 5 times while climbing

Mr mushroom is too smart for that

[half zenith]

That is… a fair point. I suppose I could set the fic in Hallownest vaguely post canon

[hushed crater]

In hallownest it's even worse lol

Everyone there died

[half zenith]

Points to how every fic ignores said deaths

[hushed crater]

Other then the pale laidy and dung defender

I guess in the past it would work

[half zenith]

You’re forgetting that in the land of fanfic we can do whatever we want and pretty much no post canon fic actually lets everyone die

[hushed crater]

Yea fair

I guess

[half zenith]

I can easily see Hollow and Ghost messing up an attempt to heal Hornet from a lethal wound because they don’t know Lifeblood is dangerous to mortals

[hushed crater]

It would make the most sense while thk is still a good enough vessel and right before the pale king was about the ban it

[orchid trail]

Anatomy of a flea

It makes sense

[hushed crater]

.no bombs

[half zenith]

… you really don’t understand fanfic or AU do you. I don’t write fanfic so every single lore detail can be perfectly the same as canon

[orchid trail]

Sadly no bombs

[half zenith]

Anyway I will keep that feedback in mind

[hushed crater]

Ok ok fair do what you want just saying

[timber pond]

Wait mabye This is the Lifeblood beasts goal.

Is this The process of creating Butterflies?

They are lifeblood "cocoons" after all

[hushed crater]

Bdw why is the sealed door to live blood a dream when it and the way you go inside isn't

I don't remember an other dream that you go in without the dream nail

[fringe hemlock]

the cocoons contain seeds, the butterflies grow straight form the vines

[half zenith]

Oooooooo this gives me an idea. What if in said “came back wrong” Lifeblood Hornet fic, Hornet is on a ticking clock because the longer the lifeblood is in her corpse, the more it accumulates, and eventually starts to mutate her body?

[fringe hemlock]

i think the butterflies are the endgame though. they grow seeds to spread lifeblood and maybe feed off living creatures once infected to provide sustainance to grow the butterflies

[hushed crater]

Maybe there is a bigger reason for the higher being to want to expand his control

[fringe hemlock]

i think the seeds mimic actual bugs(by running around) in hopes of getting eaten. or simply just move to a new place to grow

[hushed crater]

I think maybe the seeds aren't meant to be eaten but if you do they grow inside you

And because of how plant like they are they keep being eaten

They definitely want to expand tho

[fringe hemlock]

we dont know alot about what the lifeblood is about. the abyss creature when in godhome doesnt seem like a consern to anyone and just kinda chillin.
if they do want to expand i will say they have a very indirect way of going about it

[hushed crater]

Well they don't seem to want much control either because they don't do anything with it

[fringe hemlock]

i wonder in the butterflies work like the silkflies, where theyre made from an individuals soul

[hushed crater]

I think it's more of like they want to expand subconsciously and peacefully but that still doesn't make much sense because when they control a bug it becomes aggressive

[fringe hemlock]

do we actually know this? the bugs we see in tranform were already aggressive. Xylotol in his heavly infectedstate shows no agressioneven till he falls over "dead"

[half zenith]

More thoughts: I feel like if I want to make the came back wrong fic work, making it more horror comedy is the way to go. Because my mental images of this AU I really wanna draw keep flipping between soul crushing hurt no comfort, and shitposts where everyone smiles and carries on as normal and ignores Hornet’s shambling corpse going a lil feral in the background

[fringe hemlock]

his assistant doesnt really have any attacks. he just throws out a bunch of Lifeblood in what i assume is ment to be a way of spreading

[half zenith]

I interpret Zango being hostile on sight as him interpreting Hornet as a threat and lashing out violently

[half zenith]

Like on one hand I have: “…I messed up, didn’t I- Fuck- I’m so sorry!!!”

On the other hand I have:
Lace: That is DISGUSTING! Do you HAVE to fall in the water every time we go here.
Hornet: hrhhrk
Lace: Why are you like this.

[molten cypress]

Lace speaks normally but hornet just repeats "drosa" and "asvi" and they can't understand each other

[hushed crater]

Yea he is more like bleading then attacking when I think about it

[abstract rivet]

What sins did Hornet commit in Silksong

she’s not innocent lowk she did some pretty shady stuff

[fringe hemlock]

There's a removed feature in the gamefiles where if hornet didn't kill any enemies the judges wouldn't attack her

[molten cypress]

Does murdering green prince when his heart isn't even used for the ritual count

[half zenith]

Murder, multiple war crimes, drug use, gambling

Sesbian Lex /j

Use of chemical weapons and incendiary weapons are war crimes

There’s also optional ways you can be an asshole but I don’t count those

[molten cypress]

Probably a crime considering the citadel is an evil zealous institution of religion

[abstract rivet]

enemy gauntlets:

[molten cypress]

Probably why it was removed

[abstract rivet]

nope nothing stated about that

they dont necessarily hate homosexuality

[frigid belfry]

its a place disguised as a religion to keep gms asleep

[molten cypress]

I know that part was a joke
The citadel is pretty horrible anyways though

[abstract rivet]

yeah fuck the citadel

[fringe hemlock]

You'd have to ask the citadel opinion on same-sex marriage

[molten cypress]

All things considered who would even handle that considering the weavers are six feet under

Not like GMS can rule in her state

[half zenith]

Naw everyone talks to Hornet as if she’s capable of understanding or responding coherently and just kind of ignores that she’s a shambling corpse. For rule of funny

Sherma: We did it, with the power of friendship and incredible violence! Everyone smile for the camera!

[timber pond]

If enough lifeblood permeates through an area, I think the lifeblood beast might be able to pull that area into the dream. Thats what they abyss door is likely

[frigid belfry]

the conductors kind of controlled the citadel after the weavers dipped

[molten cypress]

Is the only conductor we know of the one that teaches hornet the melody or do others appear too?
Excluding the unravelled who looks like one

[timber pond]

Unraveled is Mizello. Romino may or may not be old Penitent.

[wet shadow]

There's also the conductor corpse at the edge of pharloom

[timber pond]

Not exactly a corpse, just half of a missing mantle

The golden helmets they wear are mantle with silk flowing down to make a cloak

[fringe hemlock]

I like this theory, it kinda explains why you are pulled into a dream. It might be possible for not even necessarily higher beings to pull you into a dream unconsentually, as with the Lost Sinner fight being a dream dispite hornet not doing anything to provoke it herself

[ornate pier]

It's the same sprite as Mizello and Ballador's corpses I think

Oh yeah btw the unravelled is actually the silk in the pit where you fight it, it just possess the corpses within

[wet shadow]

Yeah but it does imply that a conductor died there

[ornate pier]

I genuinely don't get old penitent romino theory it has zero basis
And doesn't even make sense
For one the conductors knew the truth of the citadel and its religion and romino shows this in his poem
Old penitent is like the most devoted to the religion we've ever seen, it even shines through in his Needolin dialogue which seems to be able to partially tap into thoughts

[ornate pier]

Yeah his corpse is there

[half zenith]

…Why is my brain like this. The lifeblood zombie hornet AU was supposed to be angst, yet my creative brain wants to come up with shitposts. I’m aware the line between horror and comedy is thinner than one would like, but c’mon man can you try to take your own angst seriously

[timber pond]

If unn can "dream the mosskin" into existence like the lore tablets state then I simply think the oposite can be true as well if a being like that wills it

[timber pond]

The helmet in unraveled is probably just a helmet with alot of silk under it

[ornate pier]

Doubt it because of how dreg husks work

[timber pond]

Its implied that eventually the bodies and dregs just become silk

[ornate pier]

And eitherway it's still used for ballador which we know is definitely a corpse

[timber pond]

Its litteraly just a silk mass possessing a helmet

[ornate pier]

That doesn't happen on its own, they cremate the bodies for that purpose

[half zenith]

Why does the HK universe have so many ways for corpses to come back wrong. They should be cremating corpses on sight with how fucked this universe is, but somehow I get the sense even that wouldn’t be enough

[timber pond]

The helmet on baladors corpse seems empty though. I think it just fell off and cracked in half when he got buried

[ornate pier]

Full sprite shows a bit of the body if I'm correct but u can't see it clearly ingame

Also there wasn't rlly anyone to bury him

[timber pond]

Buried by rubble

[ornate pier]

Oh wait nvm

Well still, the sprite has like a sliver of a body but you can't really see it ingame

[half zenith]

Fr though I wish this server had a dedicated OC/AU/fic writing channel so I didn’t have to compete with like. Actual lore or gameplay discussions depending on which channel I decide to talk in

[timber pond]

Yeah but his helmet might have fallen off slightly still

[timber pond]

Also would explain why lifeblood wants to remain hidden to an extent. So it can quietly take over a long period of time

[fringe hemlock]

It doesn't want to be hidden
It had to be hidden because the Pale king purged any the was out in the open
From hornet journal entries we know that is once flourished

[whole holly]

lost kin, lifeblood variant, would have been great

[ember musk]

i have a theory for why herra looks like that that i havent seen mentioned anywhere

yk how in the cradle the dialogue on the cages says stuff like weaver in 4/8 parts etc etc

those are how much of their genetic heritage was weaver right?

[toxic quest]

herrah has to be a full weaver since hornet is a "weaver in half part"

[heavy gyro]

herrah was a full weaver

[ember musk]

o

thats true

cause if that was the case it couldve implied there were more generations before herra and allat but fair point

[midnight zinc]

Lifeblood doesn’t seem to have a focused intent the way the Radiance does, I’m not sure that would work

[dawn gyro]

Drapemite that was strung up fr

It makes sense trust

[dawn gyro]

It might just be to spread and reproduce, but that's just with the info we have rn

[frosty gate]

Nah, there are more generations of Weavers, but all after Herrah.
Weavers are all considered first gen, although we don't know if they were created all at the same time

[ember musk]

ive heard that thrown around but idk it looks like a bit of a stretch

js cause the body looks barely similar

[shell oracle]

I have a theory hive knight was one of hornets mates before the knight killed him

[cobalt coyote]

I dont think bees live that long

Unless hive knight is special and is an Old bee

[shell oracle]

Probably iss

Because hive knight from what I know was born from the hive queen

A higher being and in the case of hornet it granted her a long lifespan

It could be the same for hive knight

[cobalt coyote]

Higher being?

What

Hornet is herrah's child

[frosty gate]

There's a chance Hive Knight was infected when we got to him

[shell oracle]

Ye but it's a possibility he was not

[shell oracle]

And the pale kings also

[cobalt coyote]

I mean he doesnt show much infection signs other than Orange goo while getting hit

[frosty gate]

That's a very clear sign of infection

[cobalt coyote]

Like if he was old

He would prob have more infection on him

[frosty gate]

Strong minds resist the infection at least for a while

[shell oracle]

Ye

Maybe hive knight was only recently infected

[frosty gate]

It doesn't have anything to do with how old they are

If that was the case, Mantis Tribe and Ogrim would be extremely infected

[cobalt coyote]

The mantises arent infected at all

No particles

[shell oracle]

Well the 4th mantis lord is

[cobalt coyote]

And ogrim Has uhh diffrent particles

You mean the one that willingly took the infection?

[shell oracle]

Yes

[cobalt coyote]

Hunter had a line on this

[frosty gate]

Which is the point i'm trying to make

[cobalt coyote]

Resisting the infection wreaks your body

Maybe accepting it Has other effects less severe

[shell oracle]

Probably what hive knight did

Or else why would he be so easy to kill

[cobalt coyote]

I think he Just got infected Like he didnt have a strong mind

And got recently infected

He still retains some sanity

[shell oracle]

That's what I'm saying

[cobalt coyote]

Somewhat normal dream nail dialogue and even came back to see the Queen after defeat

[shell oracle]

Hornet might of not known he was infected because he just got Infected

[frosty gate]

Also theres even less chance that Hive Knight isn't infected because of the Hive Mind

TC even said that the Hive inhabitants were infected

[cobalt coyote]

Yeah ik they are

Maybe the hive knight resisted the infection for longer

[shell oracle]

Hornet is void

[ornate pier]

If they produce orange particles on hit they're infected

[cobalt coyote]

Yeah he is what i mean is he might have been infected somewhat recently

[shell oracle]

Theory:the seer is the radiance

[cobalt coyote]

What if zote is a pure vessel, he Has no mind to think because of how dumb he is

He just doesnt think

If the radiance gets sealed in zote it kills itself after the fourth loop of percepts

[elder rune]

Which parent do you reckon is worse, the Pale King or Grand Mother Silk?

[pearl thunder]

Grand Mother Silk by a wide margin

Wait do you mean who is a worse person, or who is a worse parent

cause PK straight up just doesn't parent at all

[elder rune]

The worst parent

[pearl thunder]

Then PK has to be, as he just doesn't parent to any degree

he parented one kid out of hundreds of thousands

Grand Mother Silk at least did something

[elder rune]

And yeah, Pale King’s prob the clear winner due to all the Vessel infanticide & the fact Hornet doesn’t even acknowledge him outside of how he’s an idiot for attempting to harness the Void.

[pearl thunder]

Grand Mother Silk is a better parent, but not a better person

Though that's by virtue of PK being such an abominable parent

[lean temple]

Her own daughter chut her arm off and revelled in the idea of them both along with all pharloom being destroyed by void. Doesn't look like a good effect on her kid

[cobalt coyote]

Also throwing your child to work in the exhaust organ till she dies of Old age

[lean temple]

The Weavers wanted free from her service and she left Phantom to wither away. She's terrible all around

[frosty gate]

My brother in christ how is she a better parent

[pearl thunder]

I mean it was better than abandoning 99.999% of your kids to die

[lean temple]

She still screwed over all her kids

[shell oracle]

Btw the reason the radiance succeeded is because PK failed to be a bad parent so GMS is the worst

[elder rune]

Goes to show just how low the bar is that GMS can Still be considered a better parent than Pale King.

[frosty gate]

He didn't make kids, he made tools

[shell oracle]

Imo

[pearl thunder]

I'd argue being a dick to your kids is better than actively killing them

[frosty gate]

GMS made kids and treated them as tools

[cobalt coyote]

No?

[lean temple]

PK and WL didn't view Vessels ad their kids

[cobalt coyote]

More Like pk

[lean temple]

Unlike GMS

[pearl thunder]

They very much did

[frosty gate]

Only THK

[pearl thunder]

WL and PK were both pretty upset with their choice, namely WL

[cobalt coyote]

Lace she treated more as her child rather than a tool

[lean temple]

They were only tools to stop the infection

[frosty gate]

And that's because PK raised them

[elder rune]

There could never have existed a “pure” Vessel, and if one did exist they would do absolutely nothing… effectively being nothing more than a bipedal Wingsmould.

[frosty gate]

Lace's whole plot is that she has the biggest mommy issues in Pharloom

[lean temple]

I mean that's true but they still call their kids "it"

[pearl thunder]

Both PK and WL express remorse for the death of their offspring

[cobalt coyote]

Yeah there is a pure vessel, hes just deep in the abyss cause he Had no reason to climb out

[pearl thunder]

I mean there's nothing indicating a truly pure vessel is impossible, but there's nothing indicating it's possible either

[frosty gate]

Because killing = bad, that doesn't mean they're bad parents, they were not parents at all

[pearl thunder]

I'd say killing your children makes you a pretty bad parent

[frosty gate]

PK, if given the chance, would probably be a better father

[cobalt coyote]

Yeah

[lean temple]

Hornet doesn't like him that much either

[pearl thunder]

I'm in no way saying what PK did wasn't a net positive, but dude did massacre his children

[lean temple]

Tbf he had a Radiance to deal with

[pearl thunder]

So strictly within the lense of being a parent, he's a godawful one

But he is overall a decent person

[cobalt coyote]

If the radiance didnt exist then he would be a good parent

[lean temple]

Everyone knows the best HK parent is Herrah the Beast

[frosty gate]

They were his offspring rather than children he loved, he loved THK, that's the whole point of PoP

[elder rune]

Yeah, but that’s only hypothetical unfortunately

[lean temple]

He wouldn't have even had any kids for who knows how long

[elder rune]

Herrah is the goat FR

[pearl thunder]

a,

b, loving one of your children doesn't mean you aren't a horrible parent who subjected your children to immense hardships knowing it would kill them

[lean temple]

Off spring as in "spawn" not as "beloved child" I think he meant

[pearl thunder]

Either way, it's his kid

[frosty gate]

Ok be pedantic im quitting this conversation

[pearl thunder]

A bit of pedantry was inherent to the original question

The question was exclusive to the lense of parenthood, nothing else

I mean if you look at the one kid who he could have raised, he abandoned it (hornet)

[frosty gate]

How is making tools out of your offspring parenthood

[pearl thunder]

Sure it was a diplomatic act to have hornet, but dude still did absolutely nothing to aid hornet

[pearl thunder]

which is exactly my point, it isn't being a parent, which makes you a horrible parent

[elder rune]

To provide more context on what I meant by the “Pure Vessel” would never been able to work or truly stop the Radiance for good, it’s due to the fact that, to be a Pure Vessel, they would have to be completely & utterly mindless! If it walks or breathes on its own volition, then it is by no means a “Pure Vessel” completely bereft of thought, since they made the conscious decision to do such an action, and are therefore still susceptible to being controlled by the Radiance.

[pearl thunder]

If i had a kid, but went "nah that ain't really my child, it's just a means to an end" then forced it into eternal servitude, would i be a good or bad parent?

[unique canopy]

PK was at least a good enough parent to HK that the bond between them prevented HK from being hollow enough to properly seal Radiance. And unlike GMS, he and WL had an immense amount of regret and disgust for what they did to the rest. This doesn't excuse what he did, but comparing him to GMS shouldn't be a hard question.

[frosty gate]

GMS did the same thing how she any better?????

[pearl thunder]

I mean she didn't actively slaughter the remaining kids she had

[frosty gate]

She literally hunts Weavers to kill them for their silk!!!!!!

What is this conversation

That's the whole reason Hornet is in Pharloom

GMS was hunting Weavers

And Weaver spawns

[pearl thunder]

Both are absolutely horrible parents, but Grand Mother Silk is marginally better by virtue of her having killed less of her children

[cobalt coyote]

Well the weavers did trap her after finding out they are adopted

[unique canopy]

This isn't a simple math question, it's a matter of intent.

[pearl thunder]

THK is perfectly hollow, but not pure, and PK loving THK isn't what "made it impure" THK was always impure

[lean temple]

GMS was legit hunting 1/8 Weavers, she was DETERMINED

[elder rune]

It’s why the “true” ending involves the Radiance being killed instead of being sealed within a Vessel, because Ghost is still a thinking being that has some ambiguous sense of emotion in how it just gives out delicate flowers to various NPC’s they’ve met, in addition to the Winged Nosk’s existence!

[pearl thunder]

Correct, TK is objectively impure

[elder rune]

But yeah GMS is not a good parent by any stretch of the imagination.

But still “better” than Pale King

[frosty gate]

So enslaving all of your children while killing some with no remorse is better than doing what had to be done with your offspring or sacrifice the Kingdom?

PK at the very least had a reason

[cobalt coyote]

Yeah

[frosty gate]

GMS is bad because she wants to

[pearl thunder]

The latter half is referring to PK as a person not as a parent

[cobalt coyote]

He only did it cuz he thought it was the ONLY way to save the kingdom

[frosty gate]

She had 3 chances of being a good mother

[unique canopy]

"This action disgusts me and I wish things could be different, but it's the only course of action I can think of to prevent everyone's annihilation."
vs.
"I gave all of you sapience so you could worship me, and if you try to leave I will hunt down you and all your offspring because you owe me for your existence."
Both result in horrific actions, but there is a massive gulf in intent.

[pearl thunder]

The purpose of a parent is strictly to raise your kids to adulthood so they can continue your lineage, if you happen to raise them to be a semi-decent person, all the better

[frosty gate]

And he did that with THK dude

[pearl thunder]

1 of hundreds of thousands

"break a few eggs to make an omelete" taken to the extreme

[elder rune]

She’s better than PK in the same way China’s government is better in comparison to North Korea’s, which basically means she’s still godawful, but doesn’t just casually kill thousands of her own for the greater good like what the Pale King did with the Vessels.

[pearl thunder]

Which is my argument, PK had a great reason to sacrifice almost all of his children, but that doesn't mean his actions were justified purely within the lense of parenthood

[unique canopy]

Again, she's actively ordering not just her children, but the offspring of her children to be hunted down dead or alive for their silk. You can't hide that level of grotesque behaviour behind simple math.

[frosty gate]

How many children did GMS raise properly?

Discarded one, enslaved god knows how many, then neglected the youngest

For no real reason

[elder rune]

Yeah, that can definitely be argued, even if I personally see Pale King as the worse parent (Not by much and he’s definitely a better leader, but still an awful dad)

[unique canopy]

Like we are talking at least four generations of Weaverspawn down. That's "by the roots" level of straight up unironic genocide, because of her own selfishness.

[frosty gate]

She actively hates the weavers and doesn't regret her actions

"...Better a child spun mad... than none...
...Better a child spun frail... than none...
...Better a child spun pure... than them...
...One to wish our waking..."

She even realizes Lace is insane

So I'm sorry but miss "I hate my children" isn't a better parent than "I had to sadly kill many of my offspring for the greater good"

Not to say PK is a wonderful dude and did nothing wrong

But at the very least he regrets his actions and if put in a situation where he didn't have to do what he did, chances are he'd be good

I don't like glazing this dude but like damn

[solar tapir]

He almost did nothing wrong. Perfect gray character, and thats why i like him

[frosty gate]

Ironically, since he's all white

[solar tapir]

pale even

[simple hedge]

PK > GMS. GMS hates her children and attempted to create Synthetic life to make sure her children would actually be loyal to her, and it STILL didn't work. PK was attempting to save his kingdom, and he was determined to save the people that lived there at the time. Even if it was kinda doomed

[half zenith]

I’m biting the walls rn on the lifeblood thing rn

I’ve been too busy to draw my inane ideas

But Lifeblood being able to (badly) reanimate corpses is angst gold and I NEED someone to write this fic. All I have in my brain are doodles that haven’t been drawn yet

Hornet is my test subject because she directly uses Lifeblood and has it on her person but. You could also have an attempt to revive Broken Vessel go awry on account of Ghost not knowing better

[unique canopy]

So you know how lifeblood/plasmium can initially seem really good as a way to heal people, before you know the consequences

[wise sand]

Pk wasn't even really trying to parent vessels

[unique canopy]

Can you think of another friendly NPC in Silksong whose personal quest involved trying to find materials to heal people

[half zenith]

…Ah. Poor Sherma indeed

[wise sand]

I don't think its quite fair to say he was a bad parent to them when they were supposed to essentially be emotionless constructs

Not like he wanted to do the whole plan

[half zenith]

Poor Sherma attempting to heal someone and it going wrong

[wise sand]

He was kinda forced to

[unique canopy]

You know, if you wanted to emotionally gut a large percentage of the fandom.

[half zenith]

Yeah… Sherma seems like he would scramble for the nearest healing item without fully knowing what it does

And not realize that whoever he’s trying to heal is dead already

The irony of him surviving Whiteward and being too familiar with dead that didn’t stay down, only to wind up doing it himself…

[wise sand]

Hornet tho...

Still better than gms tho

[unique canopy]

Hornet's a weird state because Herrah insisted on spending as much time with her as possible before becoming a Dreamer, then the reamining Weavers took over, then she ended up training with the Hive. But we know she ended up in the Court at some point because of her outfit when she was talking to White Lady.

[slow olive]

Hornet's more of a momma's bug according to red memory

Pale king seemed to be more focused and hands on with THK, which eventually led to the failure of his plan because of them developing a father - child bond

[half zenith]

In my exploratory fic doc I had Ghost not know Lifeblood is dangerous and drench the scene in blue, and Hollow (who does know why it was banned) do nothing to stop them out of hope that their sister is still alive. But I like the Sherma take too

[fossil ledge]

PK's plan ended in failure because he misunderstood the void, not because of the bond he had with THK

[toxic mulch]

His plan was doomed from the start

[fossil ledge]

Indeed

[frosty gate]

He did form a bond nonetheless

[toxic mulch]

Void probably could have worked but not with the vessel method

[fossil ledge]

He did, yes. Or he thinks so, anyway

[fossil ledge]

I mean it does work, in the DNM & EtV endings

[toxic mulch]

[frosty gate]

No, the vessels method kinda worked, he just had the wrong approach

[slow olive]

Thanks to ghost pale king succeeded somewhat

[toxic mulch]

How so? Ghost isn't hollow either,none of the vessels truly are

[half zenith]

I just enjoy the thought of Ghost and Hollow collectively finding themselves wondering “shit did we fuck up we did didn’t we”. Like two kids breaking a window with a baseball and wondering who’s going to tell Dad, except they broke something much more important

[frosty gate]

PK's approach "Let's just keep that thing locked away"
The right approach was "Let's throw THK into the dream realm so it kills Rad"

[toxic mulch]

Unless you just mean ghost killing radiance counts then yeah

[fossil ledge]

I've always subscribed to the theory that the Pale King foresaw the void succeeding, just couldn't see enough to know how, and his knowledge of the void led him astray

[slow olive]

Succeeded in defeating radiance yeah

[toxic mulch]

Yeah the right approach would've been fighting radiance with the army of vessels

[sinful nimbus]

Not really

TK is only capable of killing Rad with Void Heart

[toxic mulch]

Mm true

[fossil ledge]

Vessels are fragile and their shades weak without a unified will to command them

[toxic mulch]

He couldn't have known about voidheart so perhaps no matter what he did it was doomed cuz he couldn't control the void without it

[fossil ledge]

We even see the Radiance break free from void tendrils being commanded by the Knight as Lord of Shades during both fights with her

[toxic mulch]

Yeah she has to both be beaten the hell up AND have void drag her into the abyss

[slow olive]

Did pale king have some type of prescience?

[vestal swan]

Unification does not make them less fragile or stronger, it's just ganging up on the radiance is now an option

[fossil ledge]

Sure, but the void without a unified will is not as capable

[toxic mulch]

Yes to an extent

[fossil ledge]

I wasn't saying Void Heart would make the vessels less fragile though, this was just referring to the vessel's shades

[toxic mulch]

All wyrms seem to have a vague sense of precognition

[fossil ledge]

Though I get where you're coming from

[vestal swan]

Eh, it's just a risk TK is not willing to take without backup. They do need an extra set of hands or a big ass tendrils to hold her down while they tear her face open

[toxic mulch]

Ghost can't beat radiance alone but with all of the vessels and void under their control it was possible

[vestal swan]

Actually now you lost me did you mean the initial shells were this weak? Because without the shells shades are even weaker

[fossil ledge]

True, though I don't think the vessel shades would be able to do much without the Knight to guide/command them

[vestal swan]

Well they need TK to summon them there so yeah

[toxic mulch]

Do we know if anything else can hurt the shades?

[vestal swan]

If the summoning thing wasn't necessary TK could enter Rad's mind the original way and have thk join them without void heart

Light and having the shit beat out of them

Collector returns to being a puddle after a sufficient beating

[fossil ledge]

Yes, I was saying the initial shells were weak, and with this I mean compared to the Radiance, who is powerful in combat and can apparently not be fully defeated without void, which would inevitably lead to the vessels being destroyed before they can defeat her.

I agree though, they're even weaker as shades, just perhaps not capable of being fully destroyed as beings of void

[half zenith]

Additional lifeblood husk thoughts:

• A strong enough lifeblood husk getting the ability to control the vines sprouting out of their body
• I do wonder if lifeblood has any influence at all over the behavior of reanimated husks. Maybe Zango was hostile because he was attempting to infect the nearest uninfected person. It’s hard to tell because the one instance we see of lifeblood reanimation is on a total stranger.
• What is apparent is that unlike the Radiance, there doesn’t seem to be a conscious will driving anything Lifeblood does -its influence on those affected by it is entirely passive.

[toxic mulch]

Collector is a kingsmould that just went insane and has no armor right?

[sinful nimbus]

Yes

It went insane because its mind merged with the Love Key bug

[vestal swan]

Seems like he's one that never got the armor because otherwise how does he get the imprint from a different bug

[sinful nimbus]

Love Key bug

Armor could've been taken off

[vestal swan]

Why did you repeat love key bug

[sinful nimbus]

I really don't know

[vestal swan]

Armor coming off is an insane theory ngl

[fossil ledge]

With this you're saying both would lose against Radiance, right?

[toxic mulch]

Bros armor got turned into the grub jars glass trust

[vestal swan]

Without having someone in a protected shell beat the shit out of her first yes

[fossil ledge]

Ah yes

[vestal swan]

She can just keep spamming beams of light and fry every piece of raw void that comes her way

[fossil ledge]

Yeah, as we see her do to even controlled void tendrils

[toxic mulch]

She was getting beaten down by ghost and couldn't focus her attacks on the other vessels and void

[fossil ledge]

I am curious if the Void Given Focus would fare similarly

[toxic mulch]

If the PK could have learned about the voidheart and how to get it I think he could've won

[fossil ledge]

Presumably yes, given that is what happens during DNM and EtV endings

Might not even have needed to create millions of vessels, either

Just one would be enough

[vestal swan]

Theyd probably lose ngl, big ass body, unable to dodge the attacks made of light etc

[fossil ledge]

Though I suppose this does depend on if Kingsoul would have been made with only one vessel

[vestal swan]

The void heart would have never come into the hands of PK, his failure kind of has to happen for it to exist

[fossil ledge]

Probably, assuming its will doesn't make it resistant to the Radiance's light attacks

[fossil ledge]

You think? Doesn't the Knight recognizing its nature lead to the charm's transformation?

White Lady describes this as a revelation found, and Hornet as accepting the void inside itself

Jiji also describes it as coming to terms with their regrets, but given everything surrounding Jiji this isn't concrete evidence either way

To be fair WL and Hornet may not know either, it's just that all NPCs seem to be pointing towards acknowledgement of its nature that led to the transformation

[subtle plaza]

Bruh wtf is going on in discussion

[unique canopy]

Normal discussion chat, but the looks of it

[slow olive]

If that was normal I'd be worried about the server lmao

[civic crest]

if a bug gave hornet his powers again- did hornet use silk before the silksong game?

[subtle plaza]

Yes, u can see it while fighting him

[slow olive]

Hornet seems to use it for her attacks

[civic crest]

so why didnt the knight get any silk powers while walking ALL OF HALLOWNEST?? (im confused)

[subtle plaza]

Because the knight is not a desendant of gms

[civic crest]

oh

[slow olive]

Ghost doesnt have the bind ability

[subtle plaza]

Seems that only bugs that gain power from gms has silk like abilities

Like the weavers

[civic crest]

why is silksong harder than the first game..

WAİT

İ HAVE A THEORY

[subtle plaza]

Because team cherry hates you and wants you to suffer

[slow olive]

Lore explanation could be because hornet is only half pale being unlike ghost who's parents are both pale beings

[civic crest]

while hornet was practising silk powers- but the knights brothers ALL died (became void) the knight survived it then went back to hallownest

so the knight had a hard time

[twin dragon]

Bind seems to be an ability from gms exclusively

[civic crest]

while hornet was chillin

[subtle plaza]

Uhhhhh

[civic crest]

hallownest*

wat

[vestal swan]

Yeah but I don't see a way for PK to create the scenario, 'okay let me use one of my kids for now and then have another one get amnesia and then bring them back and have them slowly discover what they are'

[slow olive]

Did all weavers have the bind ability?

[twin dragon]

Yeah

[slow olive]

Im wondering if they went through a period of weavers binding other weavers to dominate each other

[fossil ledge]

Sure, but circumstances can be different given what's ultimately required is just acceptance of its nature, right?

[twin dragon]

Doubt gms would allow that and weavers seem pretty united

[half zenith]

I do wonder how a hypothetical “came back wrong” storyline w/ lifeblood would end -I do not have an ending in mind.

• The obvious, classic way to end a saga like this is to have the lifeblood husk get put to rest. Something something moving on. Makes sense for a short story or one shot.
• A longer storyline may call for a less tragic ending after all that suffering, but I don’t have ideas for what that could be. Bringing back the dead doesn’t tend to end well in the HK universe. Ah well, I’m sure there’s a tome of forbidden black magic somewhere lol.
• There’s always “it was just a nightmare/a vision of a bad future”, for cowards
• A ghost story featuring total strangers could have the ending be worse. Toying with death is always an accident waiting to happen lol

[slow olive]

First sinner being imprisoned shows they weren't entirely united tho

[vestal swan]

Given how weird and bs charm magic is I'm just going to bank on it not being a replicatable scenario

That is until we get to the city of steel and find another voidheart

[twin dragon]

That was like one known instance where she went against the weaver religious dogma

and well widow aswell but that's because she didn't support their rebellion and could be a threat to their plan potentially

[slow olive]

It is interesting how the weaver desire to dominate didnt cross over to their fellow weavers

[fossil ledge]

Eh, that's fair. I also find it unlikely, but given the conditions to create Void Heart itself are seemingly just a vessel's acceptance of self, it might be possible to replicate even if what led to it is different

[twin dragon]

They had one common goal

[slow olive]

Mhm i got that, its good for them they were able to unite behind a common goal (excluding first sinner and widow)

[subtle plaza]

I think its explained by the book? Not sure tho

[vestal swan]

It's not

[subtle plaza]

Huh

[vestal swan]

The lore book doesn't really give an in-depth explanation on anything it's more like an observer's view on things, and some of her observations suck

[twin dragon]

Plus they're basically sisters to eachother and they had rlly no reason to step above themselves

[fossil ledge]

To me this ties somewhat nicely to the idea that the Pale King's prescience contributed to his plan's failure when had he not seen the future, he might have found an alternative path. With this possibly being inspired by Dune and all that

[slow olive]

Imagine a single weaver driven by the desire to rule suddenly starts binding other weavers to get stronger to replace GMS as the singular monarch over the rest of them

[unique canopy]

The Weavers don't have a desire to dominate, that's the pale beings that do. The Weavers were more bestial in nature.

[subtle plaza]

When are we getting silksong lore book

Team cherry

[vestal swan]

2122

[vestal swan]

When the opportunity came to be worshiped by the people they ate that shit up

[slow olive]

Didnt they hold on to how the "lowly bugs" saw them as divine?

[twin dragon]

That wouldn't rlly work out for her

[unique canopy]

As more a means to an end, because they needed the song to keep GMS sealed. Once that was settled they took off instead of sticking around to stay worshipped.

[twin dragon]

We see that they're pretty loyal to themselves

Like two weavers legit rebelled and got horifically punished as a result

[fossil ledge]

Didn't they take off cause their plans failed?

[vestal swan]

They took off because they didn't want to be burdened with keeping her asleep forever, and that it might fail and they would be attacked for having betrayed her

[twin dragon]

They saw through it, despite all of their previous attempts, nothing at all seemed to work

They actually fled to seek out someone who could get rid of gms, permanently

[unique canopy]

Important to note that the main source of worship for the pilgrims was the Citadel itself and its divine heart, even if GMS herself was kept under wraps. The Weavers were treated as more like old pagan cult figures, and thought of negatively. If the Weavers actually cared that much about their own worship, they'd have structured the Citadel religion to be centered around them. "Sing in the eternal choir to venerate the glorious Weavers" and the song keeps GMS sealed. The absence of that indicates the Weavers didn't think much of being worshipped beyond solely the utility of it.

[twin dragon]

Check bilewater rune harp

And the weaver pedestal dialogues

[civic crest]

is eva a weaver

[slow olive]

The negativity to the weavers started way after i thought

[sterile jacinth]

They’ve sort of lost their prestige

[twin dragon]

There are idols of worship based off of weavers

[slow olive]

During the conductors reign

[sterile jacinth]

Weavers have gained quite the sour reputation but were once revered

[sterile jacinth]

Nope just created by them

[vestal swan]

Eva is a creation or mutation of a bug and silk as an attempt to make something actually divine

[civic crest]

because while upgrading hunters crest when hornet says ''crest'' she says ohh a old weaver term

[unique canopy]

Eva is an attempt at their own silk being that ended up turning out similar to the mist Wraiths, but with her own stable will

[unique canopy]

Literally addressed that in the comment you replied to

[vestal swan]

She was made by Weavers

[civic crest]

alr

[sterile jacinth]

They were either worshipped or held in very high regard but now they have a pretty negative reputation all across Pharloom

From balador to grindle they don’t really think of weavers too fondly

[unique canopy]

And as an aside, the concept of the Weavers as divine started with GMS, it was not created by the Weavers themselves

[slow olive]

The whole reason the weavers got pissed at gms was because they thought they were divine beings but in reality were just evolved pharlids, so they mustve reallt enjoyed seeing themselves as divine

[civic crest]

i think i got why the knight is stronger than hornet

[sterile jacinth]

It’s absolutely stronger than Hornet

[twin dragon]

yeah, most likely after the rulers realized that they're basically keeping a god that was sealed off by the weavers permanently asleep

[twin dragon]

Maybe, idfk, because he can command the void?

Oh!, and also hes a demigod aswell

[civic crest]

basically

[sterile jacinth]

I don’t think that’s common knowledge to the common bug. I don’t know why they fell out of favor but it might have been them getting sick of waiting for their saviors to return

[twin dragon]

And mf ate up the radiance

[unique canopy]

Specifically because she told them that they were her divine children, she lied to them. They got mad because she lied.

[slow olive]

They even call the other bugs "lowly"

[twin dragon]

The high caste could've pushed propaganda even if only the high caste knew about the big ball of silk being gms's cage

[slow olive]

If anything they viewed themselves superior

[sterile jacinth]

That’s true it definitely could have. I feel like they would have been pissed and felt like they got tricked and lied to

[twin dragon]

And i don't rlly think most pilgrims know about the weavers, only the older ones, like caretaker and the high caste

[sterile jacinth]

Weavers? Oh absolutely those mother fuckers got some ego

[civic crest]

and he can turn into a grub while focusing (by charm)

which is his strongest skill 👍

[sterile jacinth]

It’s unclear. Grindle does mention them though so they might but their reputation might be more infamy

[twin dragon]

Yeah

[unique canopy]

Yeah they have a ego, but there's a difference between that and "a desire to dominate" and "wanting to be worshipped." They'll use that to their advantage, but because they get something out of it, not becaue they have an inherent desire to dominant and be worshipped like pale beings do.

[civic crest]

some of them do

[vestal swan]

Demigod isn't really a thing, and TK is a Higher Being with voidheart

[twin dragon]

But they definitely don't know about the gms sealing thing

[twin dragon]

Basically yeah

[sterile jacinth]

I agree

[twin dragon]

I'd say tk is already a hb pretty much

just because of their heritage

[sterile jacinth]

Modern pilgrims might think of the weavers as false gods

[unique canopy]

Shakra speaks negatively of them, her village has stories of the Weavers that they tell their children, but they're treated as old folk mythos about long-dead beasts.

[civic crest]

so no one can control their mind-body when they are infected but how does hollow knight can control himself a bit?

[vestal swan]

They aren't infected the same way

[sterile jacinth]

They’re vessels. They were literally created for storing infection

[vestal swan]

Rad is basically puppeting them, like with watcher knights and broken vessel

[civic crest]

yeah but he has a bit mind left

like he hits himself

[twin dragon]

Wrong, it is stated somewhere that the bugs are returned to their savage state

[civic crest]

to help u

[slow olive]

Im not sure about the desire to dominate being a pale being thing. PK doesnt exactly fit that description. He didnt conquer Hallownest, he was pretty diplomatic with the other tribes that already lived there.

[sterile jacinth]

This doesn’t disprove my point. Their very nature makes them resistant towards infection

[civic crest]

what u said is true but PK is a bit dumb i think

[vestal swan]

Thk was not infected the same way as everybody else, they have the angry God that is the source of it shoved in their head

[unique canopy]

Hornet speaks of it as if it is inherent to pale beings. And yes he did conquer Hallownest in his own way, he just took a different method of becoming their personal god-king to more easily convert them willingly.

[twin dragon]

Rad is LITERALLY in thk's head though

[slow olive]

So i always saw hornet's dialogue referring to her desire to rule/dominate stemming from her weaver side not her pale being side.

[vestal swan]

I literally just said that

[twin dragon]

Im talking about the common bug

[civic crest]

cuz if i were PK i would stay a wyrm cuz i would be stronger like that

[sterile jacinth]

Pale king could definitely have a desire to dominate but he just did it as diplomatically as he could

[vestal swan]

Thk is not a common bug and is the topic of the conversation

[civic crest]

and hes the last wyrm ( i think)

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet slanders PK multiple times and Pale Beings as a whole but what she says is incongruent with the first game, even if its not framed as wrong. That kinda muddies the waters and makes it hard to figure out what is objectively true

[sterile jacinth]

Not pale kings style. He rules through diplomacy rather than brute strength. I think he took that form to relate to the common bug more

[sterile jacinth]

He’s very explicitly a wyrm. We just don’t know if there are others

[twin dragon]

Wtv

[slow olive]

Did hallownest even have some kind of religion? Did bugs worship and pray to PK i cant remember

[sinful nimbus]

Yes

[twin dragon]

They had the radiance at one point till pk came

[sterile jacinth]

It’s literally called hallownest. Yea there was definitely some worship

[civic crest]

how did zote survive the infection bruh

[unique canopy]

PK inserts himself into a kingdom already brimming with higher beings. Direct god-to-god conflict would've just destroyed everything, we already see the results of Radiance kicking up shit trying to get her revenge. Becoming their personal god-king was a much easier way to insert himself into the land and gain his following.

[twin dragon]

no mind to think with

[sterile jacinth]

Zote is a loreless idiot

[twin dragon]

He's just zote zoting

[sinful nimbus]

As in not get infected or not jumped by infected bugs

[sterile jacinth]

Say what you will about zote but he’s definitely got willpower enough to resist the infection

[unique canopy]

Yes, you can find idols of the king that indicate personal worship of him.

[sinful nimbus]

He's not infected because he hasn't accepted Rad into his mind and he's a newcomer to Hallownest, he only survives infected bugs if you save him

[unique canopy]

A white idol depicting the King of Hallownest. The elusive king was worshipped through these idols.
"A King's Idol? If you look closely, each of these idols is subtly different. There are fine engravings about them that take some time to decipher. I suspect each was tailored to the owner. A personalised symbol of the king's omnipotence. "

[civic crest]

i think he got help because he WONT survive the infection with that sword

[twin dragon]

No, he's just that dumb.

[sinful nimbus]

That's not mutually exclusive

[sterile jacinth]

I’m more talking about the dreams rather than the actual infected husks

[twin dragon]

Basically learning of rad's existence condemns you

[sinful nimbus]

Proof

[civic crest]

so radiance infected the hallownest because of pale king

[twin dragon]

you uh, think and maybe start worshipping her?

[civic crest]

because he made rads believe him

[sterile jacinth]

She was abandoned by her own tribe and lashed out in anger about being forgotten

[civic crest]

and rad did not wanted to be forgetten

[sinful nimbus]

Many people learn of Rad's existence without getting infected idk where you got this idea from

[vestal swan]

They willingly left and forgot her

[dry bridge]

Shakra also knows of weavers, though that may be weavers that fled to whatever land she came from, and not citadel-era weavers

[sinful nimbus]

Bardoon Soul Master and Hunter reveal she tries seducing you (for lack of a better word) with false promises

[sterile jacinth]

This was partially pale kings fault in a way. The moth tribe followed him instead

[slow olive]

So ultimately its all the moths fault

[vestal swan]

Yesnt

[civic crest]

o i was true

[slow olive]

Did PK know about the radiance before coming to hallownest

[twin dragon]

I haven't realized how much of a crackfest radiance's capacities are

[vestal swan]

Moths started it
Rad could have just killed them in her crash out
Her crash out never stopped

[twin dragon]

till now

[sterile jacinth]

But more complex than that

[slow olive]

Or did he just discover her when he got there

[silk dirge]

it seems from this dialog weavers are a kind of legend or tale passed down over generations

[sterile jacinth]

Unclear

[civic crest]

they believed pale king, instead so if pale king didnt make them forgot rad the infection wouldnt be here

[vestal swan]

Pale King didn't make them do anything

[sterile jacinth]

Yea they willingly followed him instead of their goddess

[slow olive]

Moths chose to turn their back on the radiance

[dry bridge]

I personally think there was probably a weaver group in Shakra's homeland akin to the one that came to hallownest, though just like hallownest's weavers they more or less all died out

[twin dragon]

iirc strong-willed bugs could resist the infection while it granted them the strength

[slow olive]

PK put too much points in charisma

[sterile jacinth]

Shakras village is at the edge of Pharloom

[twin dragon]

i havent revisited hk lore in a while

[vestal swan]

Strong wills resist it completely, if you accept it for the strength you're going to get the bad side effects eventually

[dry bridge]

is it? I don't remember that

[slow olive]

Could sherma resist the infection

[sterile jacinth]

I think she mentions it somewhere

[silk dirge]

shakra's homeland is pharloom

[sterile jacinth]

Infection? I dunno. Haunting? Yes he’s got music

[twin dragon]

Which is what seemed to happen with the traitor tribe

[silk dirge]

"Warrior cartographer of a tribe from Pharloom's edge. Her skills in battle could challenge the kingdom's best."

[vestal swan]

Yes the traitors accepted it willingly and got kicked out but they also suffered the bad effects, they are horribly bloated

[dry bridge]

ah I never did the fight so I didnt get the journal entry 😔

[vestal swan]

I did the fight and didn't realize she had an entry because I didn't see it pop up

[twin dragon]

I've actually never understood how the infection is able to manifest physicially as explosive orange juice

[slow olive]

Oh so one of those dream bosses in hk was from pharloom too

[sterile jacinth]

Hunter mentions that the promise of strength is alluring

[slow olive]

"Pharloom's edge" could also mean just outside of pharloom tho

[vestal swan]

The orange juice is a byproduct of resisting from an infected bug, how it comes to be is completely magic nonsense.

[sterile jacinth]

Unclear. Maybe. Probably not

[dry bridge]

Shakra's other dialogue kinda implied to me that she was from someplace further away, I guess

[civic crest]

why is tk is so much stronger than hornet

[slow olive]

Like that abandoned "surface" village

[sterile jacinth]

Void heart. They’re also the child of two higher beings instead of one

[twin dragon]

So it's basically radiance pouring out of their mind?

[vestal swan]

Ehhhh, no. She doesn't really have a physical body, and some of that infection becomes a new creature altogether later

[civic crest]

nah theyre pouring orange juices dont worry about it 👍

[twin dragon]

Though, after she gets a better grip on the crossroads because of the seal weakening, everything bloats up so much

And it doesn't seem to be related to the bugs resisting her at all

[civic crest]

the hallownest is not infected they just like orange juice so much that they are hunting for it

and atacking anyone to get orange juice

👍

[sterile jacinth]

Everything in crossroads is already long infected

[vestal swan]

The giant blobs that are not connected to bodies are coming from the temple / thk

[twin dragon]

most bugs become horribly bloated

[sterile jacinth]

I love those things and then blocking my path and forcing me to take a detour <3

[twin dragon]

Plus, how do we know that they come from a bug "resisting" the radiance's grasp

[civic crest]

why is groal stronger than lace (2. last boss)

[sterile jacinth]

Yea. I’m saying their willpower is already gone as they’ve already succumbed to the infection