sk-lore

[random aspen]

his ass needed to die

[sinful nimbus]

Her actions make it seem like her goal is to cause as much suffering as possible

Encouraging Soul Sanctum, for example, doesn't really help her survive at all

[random aspen]

i think radiance is like less aware of how evil she is unlike the weavers, gms and conductors who 100% know what they were doing

[muted lantern]

not so different than most governments

[sinful nimbus]

What do you mean "less aware"

She is sapient

[random aspen]

liek she knows shes evil but doesnt know the extent

[muted lantern]

she seems like she knows exactly what shes doing

shes frothing at the mouth pissed off but shes definitely aware

radiance when she sees an unlobotomized orphan

[random aspen]

her way of being evil is really simple and less convoluted than some other characters

which doesnt make her less evil but like

man idk how to explain it

[muted lantern]

the citadel was definitely more monsterous overall imo, but i think they are both so morally monsterous that theres not really any reason to compare

i feel like im spelling monsterous wrong

[sinful nimbus]

The Citadel is peanuts in comparison to Rad's attempted omnicide

[random aspen]

its just very different types of evil

[muted lantern]

I mean i think mass murder and mass slavery are both pretty heinous

[random aspen]

citadel is tricking and manipulation while radiance is just chaos and murder

[sinful nimbus]

Radiance did that too but on a wider scale

[random aspen]

todays subject slavery

[sinful nimbus]

That's everydays subject

[muted lantern]

conductor balladors first lesson

[sinful nimbus]

Silksong fans when they have to name a character who isn't a slaver, slave owner, or slave

[random aspen]

radiance turns bugs into mindless zombies while citadel tricks sentient bugs into doing slave work and suffering until they die before being replaced by robots

[vestal swan]

Mr mushroom

[muted lantern]

radiance always came off as a force of nature rather than a character, kinda like sauron

[timber pond]

Is it really though. i think its kinda equal if we compare the amount of tribes in each kingdom. Cuase the citadel just killed everyone for the most part and only their own workers were left mostly

[muted lantern]

mr mushroom runs a sweatshop

[sinful nimbus]

He's not a Silksong character also who knows what his plan is with the mushrooms...

[sinful nimbus]

Only tribes?

[muted lantern]

fayforn just uses her infant children as a ladder for people reach her and hang out

[sinful nimbus]

Radiance didn't stop at sapient life she also attempted killing everything from the wild animals to the plants

[timber pond]

Aer you suggesting the flea Caravan are any of these things lol

[grand star]

did you beat the Sins of the Father wish?

[slender mirage]

wait where is hollow knight in the sisters of void ending?

[muted lantern]

the what

[slender mirage]

knight was there, most siblings were there

[timber pond]

I mean the plants (greenpath) In hallownest are a tribe too if you count the mushroomsa s one lol

[random aspen]

he never appears in silksong ever

[muted lantern]

not present, as their appearance in the ending would confirm dnm and they want it to be up in the air which ending it was

[slender mirage]

so since hk doesnt appear we dont know if its dream or embrace?

[sinful nimbus]

Mushrooms don't count 🤓 and I'm talking about fool eaters and the vines and stuff

[muted lantern]

correct, the intent seems to be pick your favorite unless they give a solid confirmation of one later on, it has to be one of the void heart endings at least

[random aspen]

very common topic

[craggy smelt]

its gonna be a mystery
until they show up in City of Steel with a new steel arm as the true final boss

[random aspen]

its dnm!!!!!!!

[silk dirge]

thk could probably focus and heal back its arm

[slender mirage]

a playable hk would be sick but he wouldnt fit sadly

[timber pond]

I mean we just kind of assume that based on a decade old statement. Like how everyone in thier mom was saying on Hollow Knights Launch "this game was inspire by darksouls!" which it was in fact, Not.

[muted lantern]

can't wait to have as many thk fights as we have lace fights

[craggy smelt]

maybe, but that's not as cool/dumb as the thing I said

[sinful nimbus]

What's with team cherry and giving their armless characters their arms back....

[craggy smelt]

I mean, she had like 7 more

[sinful nimbus]

TRUE

[muted lantern]

No, i just assume it because the scene is intentionally vague and shows imagery from both endings

[random aspen]

too big and mechanics is too similar to the knight yeah if we ever get a third game the protag should be a shaman i will die on this hill

[craggy smelt]

a 3rd THK fight would actually be good though

[sinful nimbus]

Shaman protag would be peak

[silk dirge]

does thk just return to being pv afterwards

[muted lantern]

so would a third grimm fight but id rather something new

[vestal swan]

If they get a chance to heal up maybe

[craggy smelt]

finally, a truly villainous protagonist

[sinful nimbus]

The mental wounds don't heal

[timber pond]

Well they have to Capitalize on Thier clifhanger in ETV at some point lol .

[sinful nimbus]

Shamans did nothing wrong

[random aspen]

gonna take forever to recover

[craggy smelt]

from their perspective, of course

[muted lantern]

Snail shell morph ball would be a peak ability.

[muted lantern]

shamans killed my grandma, ok?

[random aspen]

in both games a shaman gets violently tortured give them a break

[silk dirge]

i think she spared it

[vestal swan]

Spared

[silk dirge]

bro probably needed to sit on a bench

[slender mirage]

hornet can beat hollow knight?

[muted lantern]

I think thk would just be chillin somewhere in hallownest, probably worried about hornet being missing but still being in recovery.

[random aspen]

if thk stabbed itself a bunch of times and is missing an arm yeah

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet isn't above killing old people for sport

[slender mirage]

but it wouldnt need to stab itself

[silk dirge]

thk resting trying to process all the shit that just happened while hornet has like 20 choir clappers attacking her

[sinful nimbus]

I'm not sure why we still maintain that she wouldn't murder THK in cold blood

[fading whale]

You know, both the radiance and like, unn, for example are higher beings who are said to have literally created their own entire race followers, physically.

But gms barely succeeded in creating two fragile and mad (at least for lace) kids? And the pale king also didn't create his own but rather took over others.

Could it be that pale beings can't create their own creatures and that's why they dominate/elevate other pre-existing ones?

[random aspen]

https://tenor.com/view/hollow-knight-the-hollow-knight-thk-stab-gif-25367426

multiple times

[sinful nimbus]

I fw it

[slender mirage]

oh i thought we were talking about in the embrace ending

[muted lantern]

I mean she doesnt really need to as her duty is done. and thk isnt a minority that she hates

[silk dirge]

interesting idea

[sinful nimbus]

White Lady also seems to physically enhance the plantlife around her

[random aspen]

even then its injured and dying

[sinful nimbus]

That didn't stop her from killing Karmelita

Hornet's a sociopath prone to murdering innocents on a whim

[muted lantern]

karmelita was probably gay or something so her homophobia got triggered

[sinful nimbus]

THK is queer

[abstract rivet]

is The First Sinner an memory fight?

Notable Evidence to back it up:
You don’t drop a cocoon when you die to it
She’s dead?
You spawn right back at her cage

Evidence against:
Your tools don’t get refilled

[unique canopy]

"Hey sib, get over here, I need your ancient power for a ritual. No cost too great."

[muted lantern]

yes shes probably dead already

[silk dirge]

the arena completely changes

i bug reported tools not getting replenished

[abstract rivet]

right

[muted lantern]

true

[silk dirge]

bc i dont see how it isnt a memory fight

[fading whale]

Τhere are two other cases that behave in this way and they are the garmond and shakra duels

[abstract rivet]

question is how though we didn’t get Elegy of The Deep at Act II

[random aspen]

unless hornet shit her pants when she saw thk move she wouldnt kill it ever theres just no point and neither would thk

[fading whale]

I'm inclined to believe it's a duel

[silk dirge]

the arena is completely different tho

[abstract rivet]

Shakra isn’t trying to kill you, she is not dead, their “arenas” don’t get expanded

[muted lantern]

we go into memories after killing widow, first sinner seems to be manipulating the memory to test her

[abstract rivet]

question is isn’t she dead

[fading whale]

Yeah but she's also not a mystical demigod in a mystical demigod jail

[unique canopy]

I'll chalk it up to the difference between trying to bind her and using the elegy since they are different, we just don't know how or why

[tawdry flare]

I think she just kicks Hornet out

[silk dirge]

im 99% sure its a weaver memory realm

[random aspen]

yo they bowing 💮 so japanese :kawaii

[muted lantern]

gms's mind palace

[abstract rivet]

Your tools don’t get refilled

[muted lantern]

who would be the worst aunt if hornet grew up in pharloom, widow or first sinner

[silk dirge]

also why did they leave needles in first sinners cage are they stupid or something

[abstract rivet]

Which is weird but you also dont drop a cocoon

[silk dirge]

that could just be an oversight

[muted lantern]

she needs sharp objects for enrichment.

[random aspen]

its not real hornet is hallucinating

[silk dirge]

thats why i bug reported it

[muted lantern]

pretty sure it's supposed to be a memory fight

[silk dirge]

yeah

[muted lantern]

oh wait i misread

i thought you said they did refill

mb

[random aspen]

one thing though is that your fractured mask stays broken

[fading whale]

It is very possible it's an oversight that the tools get spent yeah

[abstract rivet]

yeah

[dawn sluice]

welp back to this discussion

[abstract rivet]

So did Hornet prove she’s more Wyrmm than Weaver in act 3

[random aspen]

i think gms did that intentionally so her children would rely on her and never betray her

or maybe youre right and she just sucks at making kids

[dawn sluice]

1. lace age
2. slab flies
3. retcons
4. green prince sibling thing
5. pronourns
6. pale being vs higher being creation thing

[abstract rivet]

GMS just stoopid

[limpid summit]

Yes she did

She doesn’t use any Weaver tech to combat the void but WL

PK wins again

[abstract rivet]

Dammit tricky pale tony did it again

[silk dirge]

what if you use silkshot against lost lace

[abstract rivet]

shawblades are no joke*

[mossy jay]

Be PK
Need to deal with Higher Being enslaving various creatures to her will
Fuck around with void
Oops

Be Hornet
Need to deal with Higher being enslaving various creatures to her will
Fuck around with void
Oops

It is a circle.

[abstract rivet]

Wait thats genius

[fading whale]

But then why didn't PK make his own creatures

[mossy jay]

He did

[abstract rivet]

Except Hornet kinda lowkey maybe helped a little voidster like 200 years ago so they came in clutch

[mossy jay]

Wingsmoulds, Kingsmoulds, the Vessels...

[abstract rivet]

TBH Lace is a magical being like she shouldn’t exist at all

[mossy jay]

Pale King created beings, but it seems he made them for a specific purpose, and uplifted the generic bugs of Hallownest because, uh, IDK.

[abstract rivet]

She’s basically some black magic silk doll

[fading whale]

When I say make his own creatures I mean his subjects like the entire population that follows him

[abstract rivet]

artificial life form?

[fading whale]

Same way the radiance made the moths and unn made the mosskin

The constructs and the vessels aren't the same

[abstract rivet]

Idk maybe cus his plans were different

[fading whale]

Why go dominate other people's bugs if you can make your own

[abstract rivet]

he wanted to rule an already existing group of peoples which he did it for some time

[fading whale]

Same with gms, and what they have in common is that they're pale and the other two counter examples aren't

[abstract rivet]

Idk thats just kinda Pale Beings being Pale Beings

[fading whale]

It's just food for thought

[abstract rivet]

they’re all stupid

I can’t name one smart pale creature

[mossy jay]

White Lady didn't necessarily crap the bed.

[random aspen]

palestag is a genius

[mossy jay]

You can argue that retreating to the Garden was unwise but it's really hard to know what was going on as the infection spread.

[random aspen]

palestag is the worst fucking boss of all time in any game ever

[mossy jay]

I've seen worse.

[fading whale]

Is there any other creature than white lady , pale king and gms to be referred to explicitly as a pale being

[limpid summit]

Moths went to PK of their own volition

[abstract rivet]

Y’all acting like hes the fucking devil or something its just a miniboss

[mossy jay]

Hornet obliquely refers to herself as one to the Green Prince. Sort of.

[silk dirge]

pale stag i guess

[fading whale]

Yeah it just sucks and is a waste of a pretty design

[limpid summit]

Hornet is referred to as pale but it’s also sort of a lineage thing

[random aspen]

palestag is a cannibal murderer sociopath

[mossy jay]

Pale Stag isn't a Pale Being like Pale King.

[unique canopy]

I legitimately don't get the hate for Palestag. You just dodge the projectiles and clawline.

[random aspen]

duhhh

[fading whale]

Yes I'm not counting hornet here it's due to her lineage

[mossy jay]

You're not counting the Pale Being as a Pale Being because her father was a Pale Being?

[fading whale]

Yes it's not hard it's just lame and boring

[random aspen]

its annoying as fuck

[fading whale]

She is half pale being

[random aspen]

just teleporting and spamming the same attack sometimes those attacks corner you so you have to do the fucking thing from that madagascar movie going through the tiny ring

[fading whale]

I'm talking about the major big boy ones

[random aspen]

the shit you have to be doing just for palestag to teleport again

[fading whale]

I don't think of all the higher beings we know there's any other pale ones that wl pk and gms

That all I wanted to confirm

[random aspen]

idk how a characteer is even confirmed higher being

[edgy nebula]

hornet is pale

and the vessels, maybe, i dont know

nyleth isnt cool enough

[dawn sluice]

are we discussing this topic for the 2nd time today (probably others but i wasnt there)

[silk dirge]

random thing did anyone ever notice theres a lake in the opening cutscene

i just noticed it

nothing super major just something interesting i found

[unique canopy]

Interesting since that's supposed to be the lower stretch of Blasted Steps

[muted lantern]

a lot of the fossils in the marrow seem like they have the faces of those weird hole face guys in the abyss

did anyone else notice that

[dawn sluice]

also im stealing a joke and saying that pale beings just make
pale imitations

[wise sand]

Its a miniboss

[random aspen]

nyleth isnt a higher being cus shes stupid and she died like a typical mortal

didnt even get to aura farm on a throne like pale king

[wise sand]

Hornet, the vessels, maybe whatever the pale oil comes from???

[muted lantern]

we need an unn plush

[wise sand]

Was pale stag even real, it could be just be a weird memory lowkey

[visual glacier]

Sylphian slug or sum

[fading whale]

So is watcher at the edge and he slaps

Or even shakra

[fading whale]

Oh yeah right I agree

And it's noteable as I have said before that Eva's power that gives silk aka soul is called the sylphsong

[vestal swan]

My idea is they tried to GMS mutate a sylph

[fading whale]

Yeah that's pretty much what is said in the game

[craggy smelt]

its as reliable as anything else in Green Prince's memory

[fading whale]

I'm just pointing out the relationship of the word sylph to soyl

Soul

[vestal swan]

Sylph by itself is not tied to soul

[fading whale]

And thus the sylphean slug is related to soul potentially, and also to the word pale, so potentially pale beings also have a relationship with soul that's different than the other higher beings have

With it

[vestal swan]

Sylph is related to Eva, Eva is related to Soul

[sinful nimbus]

What else would an air spirit be if not soul related

[vestal swan]

Wind

[sinful nimbus]

PALE KING

[frigid belfry]

Pale ≠ soul, pale lake, pale metal, even green prince refers to pale things as cold/metallic, not as in pale beings

[vestal swan]

Sylphs populate the wastes and ruined it

[sinful nimbus]

PK enslaving all the sylphs to make it so that the winds blow towards his kingdom

[fading whale]

I'm not saying everything pale is soul, but maybe pale beings specifically have some relationship with soul, I mean we do see that in their powers

Gms is super advanced at soul manipulation

[muted lantern]

doesnt the wyrm corpse shoot wind out of it?

or am i high

[fading whale]

And as for the pale king, we can see from his offspring with the white lady, another pale being, they are too

[fading whale]

And the wings too

[vestal swan]

There's a breeze at the top iirc but I think that's just because it's near an entrance to the wastes

[craggy smelt]

no, the wyrm corpse itself produces a powerful wind
blasting wyrm flakes everywhere

[fading whale]

No there's definitely stronger and stronger winds as you get close to the king's brand and once you get it they stop

[muted lantern]

I swear i remember wind shooting out of the dead wyrms mouth, i must have hallucinated

[frigid belfry]

Pale wind confirmed

[fading whale]

I remember it that way too

[frigid belfry]

It has soul infused it in

[vestal swan]

"inside" yes because outside is a hole to the wastes that he dug

[edgy nebula]

the frosted fakes kellogg's never sold

[vestal swan]

Wyrmflakes, part of pale lurkers complete breakfast

[fading whale]

Didn't know that

So soul is also described as a pale flame

[muted lantern]

wait wait, im right! i just looked and the wyrm corpse is blasting a wind out of it's mouth

[vestal swan]

Are you sure that's not his butt

[craggy smelt]

Tiso called the Knight 'pale thing'... he didn't know how right he was

[muted lantern]

pale king flatulence theory

[wise sand]

Pale stag > watcher at the edge tbh

[edgy nebula]

we dont stand wate slander

atleast wate actually adds lore to karak unlike paleshit

[muted lantern]

the knight whenever someone references how pale they are "does he know?"

meanwhile the people just saw some white kid

[unique canopy]

Is Pale Lake actually supposed to mean Cold Lake? Might have missed some dialogue.

[muted lantern]

it's pks bathwater

[sinful nimbus]

Its a lake that is pale

"The curtains are blue because they are cold"

[edgy nebula]

for coral gorge dlc you should melt the ice in mt. fay, revitalize the kingdom, and go back to coral tower to use the elegy of the deep on the karaka corpses

would lead into a stronger khann fight since youd be fighting the khann that his troops thought of him as

[fading whale]

I don't want coral gorge in the slightest

I want lifeblood spire and that void cult that was supposed to be where wisp thicket is

But that's probably just summoned saviour in the final game

[edgy nebula]

maan wisp thicket's way better than void, i like wisp thicket

[fading whale]

No yeah I like wisp thicket

I just want the void cult to be put somewhere

[sinful nimbus]

ts is literally pale 😭

[unique canopy]

Makes sense, although I ask because I think a common thread for "pale" is more along the lines of "pure." As in, swirling flame of pure soul, or lake of pure untainted water.

[edgy nebula]

in their defense the saturation on this is cranked up to the max

[visual glacier]

Ts pale lake

[sinful nimbus]

No Hornet is just maggoted

[fading whale]

Pale sometimes means something significant sometimes it doesn't, and it's not the same thing every time it is used

It depends on the context

[vestal swan]

Pale means something is pale

[tawdry flare]

I’m pale

[muted lantern]

its just where pk stores his bathwater to sell

[fading whale]

Pale beings, pale flame, probably sylphean slug with its pale oil, and also probably pale ore and pale steel are the "special" meaning of pale and in my opinion relate to soul.

Pale lake, pale fern, palestag and whatever else don't carry the same connotations

Purified ducts dlc confirmed

[edgy nebula]

oh wow apparently there's an inaccessible room in karak, thats cool

[wise sand]

Huh

Void cult?

[fading whale]

In some early maps there was supposed to be a void cult in the father of the flame room

My guess is they turned that into the summoned saviour quest

But that's lame, that's just one guy

[edgy nebula]

void is lame, i prefer wisp thicket over it any day

wisp thicket is more mysterious than a void cult would ever be

[fading whale]

Yes they can both exist

I'm not asking for wisp thicket to be removed

[wise sand]

Void cult in the abyss?

[fading whale]

But if it's expanded upon its mystery will go away, I'm happy to not learn anything more about wisp thicket

[wise sand]

Would match better

[fading whale]

That's just the ancient civilization. I want a cult of modern simple clueless bugs messing with it would be funnier

[wise sand]

Consider:sapient shadow creepers/j

[fading whale]

They wouldn't be shadow creepers then

The whole point of shadow creepers is that they're the least alive living thing hahaha

That's how they come off to me

They don't eat or drink, they don't react to the needolin, they don't react to anything except that the big ones charge at you

[frigid belfry]

I’m curious what the gloomsacs natural prey was

[vestal swan]

Creepers probably

[timber pond]

I think they might have merged that idea with the Steel Vassals. Or maybe they were one and the same from the beginning, and thats why Sharpe was Cut from the game, Because thier area of influence on the world was removed

[frigid belfry]

Ehh creepers don’t exactly seem like prey

[vestal swan]

That's like the only three things down there, the flying silent Hill 2 entity, void dinosaurs and creepers

Ac members/weavers

[edgy nebula]

unironically gargant glooms are the hardest enemies ingame

[vestal swan]

Which one is that

Flying meat entity?

[frigid belfry]

Big scary walking gloomsac that spits out gloomsacs

[foggy fractal]

the ones that spit them out

[edgy nebula]

the dinosau

[foggy fractal]

wait not spit them out

comes out of their sides

[edgy nebula]

so much damn health, hits like a truck, fast as shit, spits out the most annoying enemies in the game

[craggy smelt]

creepers aren't observed to consume anything, maybe gloomsacs just wait for anything with Soul to come along
however long that takes

[edgy nebula]

spews out void that covers the entire platform theyre on

[foggy fractal]

these guys

[edgy nebula]

they do aurafarm though

[craggy smelt]

i realized the other day that these guys are basically the only leeches in the game

despite the legs

[frigid belfry]

Who tf going down into the abyss? They tryna jump vessels😭

[craggy smelt]

it is ancient and mysterious
they can wait a very, very long time

[vestal swan]

You can kill these guys with like two buzz saws tho? And if you get close enough they puke over you

[edgy nebula]

they were so tough for me, idk why

i ended up spamming tacks on the floor to kill them while they were doing their cycles, they scared me too much

[vestal swan]

The flying ones were more annoying but I just decided to run through the area at full speed to avoid them, I also don't like how they look like literal cuts of meat hanging from the ceiling

They don't feel like they fit

[craggy smelt]

I like how there are paths that bring you past them without needing to even see them, but you can hear them shuffling around
it's creepy

[edgy nebula]

theyre genuinely terrifying

they can spot you offscreen so if you get on their platform you just hear running until you eventually get bombarded

[foggy fractal]

how fast is watcher at the edge when you try to run away, faster than swift ? is swift a fraud ?

[vestal swan]

That reminds me, I was hoping that I could exploit spaghetti code and do a ton of extra damage to things off screen like you could with fireball in hollow Knight, unfortunately you can't do that, buzz saws and weapons sometimes just don't hit anything if they're too far off screen

[limpid summit]

Swift is a Dashmaster who abused his dash powers to beat the sprintmaster

[vestal swan]

Swift is a sprinter but he's actually like really bad at sprinting, he's more an endurance runner

[craggy smelt]

Dash is a swiftmaster, sprint, dash, run, sprint

[foggy fractal]

insert tc arrives with spagheti gif
actually it would make more sense for them to leave with the spagheti, their code got better

[edgy nebula]

they also aurafarm since they match their surroundings

i do wonder why theyre down there, since none are present in hk's abyss

[vestal swan]

Also I guess they just use fucking void levitation???

[foggy fractal]

get this man on the relay race team

actually no

marathon

[sinful nimbus]

Never forget purple pukebug 😔

[vestal swan]

I don't like the change but at the same time if I found a fourth swamp area I would have deleted the game and never looked back

[edgy nebula]

well, shades do too, kinda

void levitation isnt new but it's weird since we've never seen it outside of ghosts

[craggy smelt]

void fumes

[vestal swan]

Pure void entities*

[craggy smelt]

except tendrils

i would have loved an area called the Gloom
what a lovely name

gloom gloom gloom gloom

[sinful nimbus]

The gloom isn't a swamp and its also tuff af

[vestal swan]

Imagine a tendril decides to just fucking fly up at you while you're safely jumping over the lake

[sinful nimbus]

Looks like a very unique area in terms of layout

[craggy smelt]

some big tendrils down there, going by Hornet's dive cutscene

[sinful nimbus]

Bilewater is too tbf so I don't really mind the change

[vestal swan]

The gloom would have absolutely been a fourth poison swamp area

[lethal burrow]

why aren't you talking about lore in the lore channel? are moderators hypocrites who don't follow their own rules? That's what the reporters say....

[edgy nebula]

honestly what are the weird vines in absolom

we dont really see those anymore

[craggy smelt]

void vines

[lethal burrow]

It might be fake news coverage though

[sinful nimbus]

-guy who hasn't read the pinned rules

[craggy smelt]

they were plentiful in Hallownest's Abyss

[vestal swan]

The hell are you talking about

[edgy nebula]

we havent really seen them to the caliber in absolom though have we

[craggy smelt]

they're dense around shade cloak beast

[vestal swan]

We're talking about a creature that was changed and a probably entirely cut area, but technically these things could show up in DLC

[craggy smelt]

actually looking at the Pharloom Abyss vines are all over the place, idk what you mean

[sinful nimbus]

DLC is not adding allat 😭 🙏

[lethal burrow]

being actually serious yeah I highly doubt anything that was cut is coming back as DLC. They had infinite time and money with no restrictions to do whatever they wanted if they wanted it to be in the game they wouldn't have cut it

[sinful nimbus]

Well the game is still rushed tbf

[lethal burrow]

[grand star]

i mean

[sinful nimbus]

what were these two years of polish spent on 😭

[grand star]

the entire reason they released the game now is because they didn't want to delay it

in favor of adding more content

that they could've just added later after the game was released

[lethal burrow]

All the things in the game if I had to guess

[sinful nimbus]

Team Cherry when they need to decide between making sure I couldn't get locked out of 100% or making sure players couldn't cheese Lace 1 with walljump

[grand star]

you can't get locked out of 100%

[sinful nimbus]

In theory

[timber pond]

I kind of don't believe this is true for some things. Yeah ,Shit Like Coral Gorge is Unrealistic. but things Like Pharloom Bay Can be added in.

[grand star]

what are you talking about

the only things you can miss are 2 journal entries

[sinful nimbus]

Benjin and Crull are supposed to drop tacks in Act 3 after they die but they did not in my playthrough

[grand star]

the tacks only show up after yarnaby tells you to get them

[sinful nimbus]

Not those tacks

The tool

[lethal burrow]

was pharloom Bay ever "cut" though? Last I heard it was only found out about being added in through patches and names in the files and stuff

[sinful nimbus]

It showed up in trailers

[vestal swan]

If it's not in the game currently it's considered cut or unused content

[lethal burrow]

you don't know for a fact that was farloom bay

[sinful nimbus]

Barnacle Bay 👴

[vestal swan]

That's another anime reference, a bunch of SpongeBob stuff

[dawn sluice]

which 2
i know one is wraith

[grand star]

you can't miss wraiths

[lethal burrow]

That's not one of them

[vestal swan]

They're probably going to fix journal entries because when you complete the heart dream sequences it automatically fills the rest out for you

[grand star]

it's garmond/zaza and shakra

[sinful nimbus]

Do you remember when someone mistyped it as Barnacle Baby in a video and everyone began thinking Lomm was a kid

[vestal swan]

How can you miss garmond

[sinful nimbus]

You can fight Garmond

[vestal swan]

Or is it different from the void version

[timber pond]

It was cut from a prior version yeah.

[grand star]

the first duel

[vestal swan]

Ah

[sinful nimbus]

I only got it in my third playthrough

[rain gate]

Yes it's different and I missed both them and shakra

[vestal swan]

Garmond is the only journal entry I missed I guess

[lethal burrow]

The conditions are a bit wonky because you have to get two out of the three melodies but also not have done the high halls gauntlet

[dawn sluice]

really?

i thought you could

[lethal burrow]

They get filled out after you beat phantom

[dawn sluice]

i see

[silk dirge]

its also in a really weird location

its in the outside of the citadel east of songclave you can only access from vaults

[pseudo raptor]

How dead is the Citadel? It’s all quiet with husks everywhere before the Lace dialogue but the Songclave bunch used to be creeping around too

[vestal swan]

They were wandering around but they seem to be like the only people alive up there

[timber pond]

Its like The space sation from alien

[vestal swan]

The bell just groups them all together

[timber pond]

i mean everyone is PROBABLY dead

[sinful nimbus]

The pilgrim who heard Lace is tuff

[timber pond]

but there are probably some stragglers hiding in the vents or something

[foggy fractal]

on a scale of 1 to 10 how tuff

[silk dirge]

i wonder if theres any drapemites that made it into the ventricas who get annihilated whenever hornet takes it

[pseudo raptor]

Would the high halls caste be all dead I wonder

Except Ballador

[vestal swan]

Probably

[sinful nimbus]

6

I just wish he had more dialogue 😔

[idle summit]

Does anyone think that herrah could’ve been evolved from a drapemite akin to how most weavers were evolved from pharlids? She shares a lotta similarities with drapemites! With the horns and cloak especially, it could explain why she looks so different from the other weavers

[vestal swan]

It does make some sense but it doesn't explain all the differences

[muted lantern]

its a thing thats been talked about here, but folks here don't like the theory because theyd rather believe its a plothole, i personally like the theory, especially as mites are a type of arachnid irl, and the big mites have 8 legs in most of their sprites (though funnily enough not the hunters journal sprite)

It's certainly the best explanation we have as of now, unless you believe that the devs didn't think about it at all

[lapis creek]

quick somebody check acmi maps

[craggy smelt]

I believe this, but only because it's very funny

I think TC should edit the Herrah sprites from the original game so they match Silksong and pretend it was always that way

"There was no retcon, shut up, fuck you!"

should be a mod...

[idle summit]

Oh it’s sick that people are talking about it! My friends don’t like the theory either lol

[pseudo raptor]

Hornet compares herself to a pharlid so I'm eh on this

[idle summit]

Changing her mask on the seals to be extremely oversized and circular like the weavers haha

[wise sand]

NO

[idle summit]

Yeah there’s not much to the theory besides looks, it’d be nice if Hornet had more to say in the drapemites journal entries

[wise sand]

Yall gotta stop saying this

[wise sand]

Mite=/= spider

[muted lantern]

its an arachnid, which is what the pharlids are referred as

[idle summit]

Mites are classified as arachnids though!

[wise sand]

Still not spiders tho

[muted lantern]

pharlids arent called spiders either though

[idle summit]

And some mites can even weave webs

Had a bunch of those on a potted plant of mine

[wise sand]

The weavers refer to each other as "sisters, spiders"

[craggy smelt]

an issue is that herrah doesn't have her big fat body in Red Memory, she looks pretty average weaver sized, just a different head/mask
there was a size comparison graphic floating around

[muted lantern]

yeah the weavers are spiders, but pharlids arent referred to as such

[craggy smelt]

any arachnid + magic silk = spider people is the math

[dawn sluice]

yeah people here are really negative sometimes

[muted lantern]

point being that they are completely mutated into creatures that could spin silk, when they were just regular arachnids with no webbing ability before

[idle summit]

Spiders are just defined as eight legged arachnids (that typically weave webs) so the drapemite fits the description!

[muted lantern]

they become spiders as they are given the ability to weave

but pharlids arent called spiders iirc

[wise sand]

The weavers are pharlids and we have no reason to believe that they suddenly change from another arachnid into spiders

[wise sand]

No

Spiders are members of the order araneae

[muted lantern]

again, nothing says that pharlids are spiders, just arachnids,

[dawn sluice]

i wonder if since pale beings seem to have the ability to “enlighten” and modify lower bugs (or at least we think they do when we discussed this in the channel the past 10 times) can they do the same in reverse

[muted lantern]

and we literally see the creatures getting pretty dramatically altered by divine intervention

[pseudo raptor]

Anyway the pharlids have more pronounced head spikes than the drapemites

[crystal marsh]

RL biology isn't canon to HK or SS

[pseudo raptor]

GMS just messed up with smoothing out the domes of FS and Herrah or something

[dawn sluice]

i wonder what caused first sinners head to look cracked when evolved while other weavers don’t have it

[muted lantern]

i think its not remotely farfetched to say that they become spiders due to them being given the silk

[craggy smelt]

Silk's first try

[muted lantern]

since they are only called arachnids before

[dawn sluice]

wait
they’re the first weaver too

[wise sand]

True, tbh i don't even think mites in silksong are even supposed to be like real mites

[muted lantern]

yeah but we see what those horns become in first sinner so it has to be a different thing

[craggy smelt]

yeah, Silk was like 'shit, fucked up the head. Alright, next one...'

[pseudo raptor]

Does it

[muted lantern]

the mites having 8 legs is more of the arguement

[dawn sluice]

silk has ocd

real

[wise sand]

Legs mean nothing in hk/sk

There's plenty of bugs in hk/sk with 4 legs

[pseudo raptor]

They also become perfect domes in the other weavers so

[sinful nimbus]

Pharlids also have horns and weaver cloaks aren't biological

[muted lantern]

first sinner is like babies without their skull fully grown

[sinful nimbus]

Really its more of a mystery as to why other weavers don't have horns

Hornet seeing her fighting style in the Pharlids also seems to suggest her mother was one herself

[muted lantern]

having less than the expected amount of legs for their type of bug is common yeah, but giving a creature 8 legs generally seems like an intentional move.

[random aspen]

i think most weavers were evolved from pharlid divers, cus of the head shape

[idle summit]

Definitely think that herrah could just be a pharlid but also she just looks soooooooooo so so different from all the other weavers that I feel like there should be a reason

[random aspen]

herrah mightve just been designed before they got any of the ideas for silksong

[muted lantern]

Yeah the drapemite explanation isnt a defnite thing but its the best possibility we have at this time

[random aspen]

so shes stuck looking like that

[wise sand]

Maybe

[idle summit]

I agree! But I feel like they’d still work it into the lore

[muted lantern]

Yeah thats the case, what im argueing is that they still retroactively came up with an explanation for why they look different.

[dawn sluice]

maybe the reason is that silk isn’t the most consistent in weaver creation
like first sinner

[sinful nimbus]

But this explanation is baseless and slightly nonsensical

[random aspen]

yeah i hope theres something that tells us why herrah looks like that

[idle summit]

Even first sinner looks very similar to the other weavers

[edgy nebula]

it is very likely herrah was just retconned into weaverhood

[idle summit]

Herrah not only has a different head shape but far different body type

[edgy nebula]

not in silksong funnily enough

she looks like a weaver aside from the head shape in sk

[idle summit]

I was really surprised to see that Hornet was half weaver! Thought for sure that herrah would’ve been half weaver instead

[muted lantern]

again, thats defo the case, what im saying is i still think the devs would take the time to come up with a retroactive explanation for the difference

[dawn sluice]

plot twist: herrah is first sinner
she committed herrahsy

[sinful nimbus]

Its not really something that needs to be explaining

[idle summit]

I think it kinda is

With how the other weavers worshipped her too

[muted lantern]

first sinners appearance definitely comes off as her being a prototype, though not canon i believe shes called first weaver in the files

[sinful nimbus]

Unique characters get unique designs. Groal has uh 6 wings unlike any stilkin at all

[muted lantern]

its fun to speculate on these things

[pseudo raptor]

I mean groal might be mutated like bloatroaches

[muted lantern]

groal was just a regular frog but you are what you eat so now he is bug

[sinful nimbus]

Fair 'nough

[wise sand]

I think this is more tc hinting at pharlids being the origin of the weavers and not tc saying the pharlids are non-spider arachnids

[dawn sluice]

anyway
how fast is bug evolution

[edgy nebula]

he's mutated but not from the soul yeah

[muted lantern]

groal is actually frog from frog and toad, hes doing very poorly after the divorce.

this is also why hornet kills him

[dawn sluice]

speciesism

[muted lantern]

homophobia

[dawn sluice]

both

both is good(?)

[muted lantern]

with all the bigotries combined you can create a healthy half spider

[dawn sluice]

NOO
YOURE SUPPOSED TO OBEY ME
hornet facing all 7 bigotries after entering someone else’s home

[muted lantern]

honestly the devs could have really gotten away with not making hornet come off as a bit of a murderhobo if they just didn't have green prince drop a heart and maybe just not die after the fight, because then there wouldnt be a situation where she kills him or karmelita for no reason.

because obvs they let you do all these fights despite not needing to just for gameplay purposes, but then hornets somewhat logical reason for killing karm stays intact

[random aspen]

they were both miserable anyway

[muted lantern]

with the 7 human bigotries combined we can shatter the barrier

[muted lantern]

not really a good reason to murk someone

[random aspen]

its a fantastic reason

[dawn sluice]

no we create the barrier

[random aspen]

kil them all

[muted lantern]

the barrier prevents spiderkind from commiting more hatecrimes

[dawn sluice]

euthanasia

[muted lantern]

you would love the game everhood

[wise sand]

Tbf hornet isn't the first one to attack in the verdania memory, it's still weird that she tried to enter green prince's memory after he asked her to leave him alone tho

[muted lantern]

the only really egregious part is the dialogue of if she kills karmelita even though she already has 3 hearts

[random aspen]

spiders in hollow knight when it comes to becoming cut content

https://tenor.com/view/lebron-james-dunk-explosive-lakers-lakerswin-gif-16401450

[wise sand]

We need more arachnids that are explicitly arachnids in hk/sk tbh

[muted lantern]

were there non weaver spiders in deepnest?

there were webs everywhere, but were those from the little weavers?

or are there spiders unconnected to gms? it seems that gms's lore implies shes the source of all silk

[muted lantern]

the theory of any aracnid being able to be made into a spider by gms unlocks the potential of scorpion weavers

[wise sand]

We have no scorpions,no harvestmen, no solifuges, no amblypygi, no palpgradi,no schizomida, and mites are questionable

[dull birch]

hey guys, this just came across me... in a lore perspective, why do benches and transport (stags/bellways) cost money? i understand it should be challenging for the player, but i would think in the story, the kingdoms would have some common decency for the people to have no-costing benches and perhaps lower-cost transport.

well there is that terrible slavery stuff in the underworks of paying 15 rosaries for a bench, but still, i would think they would just have benches for free before the kingdom come to ruin?

[dawn sluice]

well in hallownest the economy needs to be sustained and it’s only a little
in pharloom everything you put into the system gives you rosaries, which you spend and put back into the system to be given back to you

[wise sand]

True

Idk why gms would be limited to just arachnids tho

[dull birch]

i suppose, perhaps im comparing it too much with reality in a modern city because sitting on a bench will cost money sounds like an absolute crime, but maybe there was different standards in this hk world

[muted lantern]

at least in pharloom its a manner of keeping the pilgrims subjugated, especially the underworks, confessing to their sins costs them money, resting on a bench for just a moment costs them money, and they are barely able to work up enough as it is, and any comforts physical or spiritual will drag them back down, it's o they can never escape the system they are in, trapped in indentured servitude.

[dire lynx]

midwife(presumably), the stalkling devouts, deeplings, deephunters

maybe nosk

[dawn sluice]

45 geo is much easier to get and can be found on pretty much everything in the kingdom, and once a bench is open it lasts a long time
in the underworks you’re getting 3 rosaries max from an enemy and resting on a bench resets when you get up from it

[dawn sluice]

those seem like just normal arachnids

but really

[wise sand]

If we're doing non-spider weavers gimme mossmir weavers atp

[dawn sluice]

they’re weavers and weave minor annoyances at you

[dull birch]

also i think silksong made me realize how good the pale king was, at least he had implemented WORKING BENCHES (im looking at you bilewater bench)

if you can even call that a bench

[wise sand]

All of those bells and gears for NOTHING

[muted lantern]

can they spin silk though?

[dire lynx]

nosk can, bare minimum

[wise sand]

definitely not the kind thats relevant in silksong

[dire lynx]

silk, but not the soul infused sort

[limpid summit]

I mean the devouts and distant village spider make silk

Midwife might too

[lethal burrow]

deeplings COULD be weavers idk its sort of ambiguous

[wise sand]

😔 i wish tc would make a post about deepnest/the weavers

[limpid summit]

I wish man

Closest we got is big man Skynx

[wise sand]

Pretty big retcon if it's a retcon

[silk dirge]

i wish tc would make a post about anything lol

like you released silksong you can talk now 😭

[wise sand]

Real😔

[silk dirge]

the only communication from them is changelogs

but they definitely are keeping up with the community which is good

[wise sand]

Leth not doing his job once again/hj

[silk dirge]

the multibinder maggot buff was from the community talking about it

[wise sand]

True

[silk dirge]

and they are using the community chinese translation

i just wish theyd talk

[cedar skiff]

maybe theyll do like a reddit qna soon

[silk dirge]

i hope

first questions are gonna be "are green princes twins" and "why is hornet racist"

[cedar skiff]

you forgot is lace a child?

[silk dirge]

havent done that one in a few days

[foggy fractal]

given that they're still working on dlcs for silksong they're prob gonna be silent given their whole demeaner before, about just working on it and delivering it asap and all, we'll see though

[halcyon merlin]

twincest 💔

[wise sand]

Theyd get assassinated 5 minutes later💔

[foggy fractal]

the big three 😭
Are green princes twins
Hornet slabflies journal entry is problematic
and of course is Lace a child ?

also are they still working on backer stuff that's a big one

[wise sand]

Which hk ending is canon/what happened to thk

Why does hornet murder the green prince

[sweet shale]

and karm

also the deepnest thing

[dire lynx]

i feel like karm is the bigger question

[dawn sluice]

let me get out the list

1. lace age
2. slab flies
3. retcons
4. green prince sibling thing
5. pronourns
6. pale being vs higher being creation thing
7. city of steel

[grand star]

wdym by 6

[wise sand]

Whats that last one?

[sweet shale]

they should just make a list with every characters pronouns atp

[lethal burrow]

harrah retcon is also something worth asking

[wise sand]

I swear if they say something about it being up for interpretation 😭

[ornate pier]

Some guy claiming to be a translator actually sent the wiki this exact thing but they got so much backlash they reverted it

Was prolly for the better though it was uncitable because NDA

And besides I like the current policy a lot more

[dawn sluice]

which being up for interpretation
if they weren’t then there wouldn’t be all this discussion around this stuff 24/7

[cedar skiff]

its not that a good amount of these are up for interpretation its just that they cant be answered with yes or no simply

thats why its discussed so much

[wise sand]

I mean they can all be answered pretty easily by tc if they were to make a statement about it

[cedar skiff]

ok the green prince and lace things are just an issue of not being able to read because both of those are made pretty clear

[dawn sluice]

which one

[silk dirge]

what if the steel masters are just ari gibson and william pellen

[dawn sluice]

i got the list from bistec tbh

apparently they’re discussed a lot

[wise sand]

All the things you listed

[cedar skiff]

adelaide the city of steel

[dawn sluice]

(except i added 6 myself)

[silk dirge]

someone said this and i cant stop thinking about it lol

city of steel is gonna be fucking like

adelaide

[dawn sluice]

alr
the nice woman of the pasture

[cedar skiff]

👀 lets take a look

[silk dirge]

the staked to service weaver is probably like jack vine 😭

[cedar skiff]

honestly the weaver staked to service is the only thing that got me interested in steel city lore

what the fuck could they be possibly doing with that weaver

itd give a crazy explanation for why hornet is being chased down (idk how much that matters anymore anyway since its cut content). albeit its kinda a rehash

[dawn sluice]

and the fact that they got taken by the citadel with not many repercussions (or atleast none implied) might mean something

considering a vassal lost exists they likely don’t take kindly to having a servant taken

[cedar skiff]

if the weaver that served their city is gone surely theyd want another

[wise sand]

The masters are frauds???/j

[dawn sluice]

YES

[dawn sluice]

anyway was the weaver an eighth or a quarter weaver

[unique canopy]

The City of Steel Weaver was 1/4

[dawn sluice]

so how useful do you think their weaving was compared to a normal steeled servant

also its good how the timeframe for hornets lifespan is shown through these
about 2 generations old

[cedar skiff]

i dont think its just two

girlie is olddd

[craggy smelt]

good enough to reap the most casualties on Citadel forces of all the taken weavers

we haven't seen steel servants fight official though

but they may have lasers and nose whips

[dawn sluice]

on the topic of the city of steel
do you believe the “steel masters” may be normal bugs who artificially extend their lifespan
it’d explain the tighter leash on their citizens (since they can’t do as much and don’t know as much as a higher being does)

[craggy smelt]

there's nothing to indicate they are brothers/blood related whatsoever

[dawn sluice]

it’d also explain why there’s multiple: it’s a council

[craggy smelt]

I think it would be pretty interesting if it turned out the steel masters weren't higher beings, in the sense of 'god-tier' beings like the ones we've seen

maybe a collective of powerful creatures, like bugs who have worked out all kinds of techniques and sorceries etc. that let them do all their crazy shit

[cedar skiff]

id honestly really fuck with a proper council sort of rule in the lore

the conductors didnt do shittt

the craws were awesome as hell tho

[silk dirge]

no you got silkposted

congratulations

[wary crater]

can't believe i've been deceived about this for so long, honestly i'm relieved as hell

[dawn sluice]

soul master would’ve loved this

if we even get a third game i’d like to play as an “ascended bug” who despite not having the same durability or advanced move set a higher being does, makes up for it with a lot of skill

given simple tools with many complex synergies and use cases

[slim tree]

powerscaling mfs are so stupid

wdym the shade lord would lose to caterpie

[tawdry flare]

thats facts though

[cedar skiff]

the void is on fraudwatch for not being able to low diff grandmother silk

[cedar dock]

Not gonna @ powdered cause it’ll get annoying, but he brought up here yesterday that ETV is the only ending canon to SotV b/c the shade lord flashes on screen. That form of the knight/void was revealed by the Godseekers’ attunement, but that doesn’t mean it can’t be revealed in other ways. I think DNM can also be canon to SotV even with the Shade Lord flashing on screen.

[cedar skiff]

i honestly just dont believe theyd make a dlc ending the one true canon one

they truly just like fucking with their fans

[cedar dock]

Lace being called a child of mind and body after 5 years of Hornet x Lace was the most devious (somewhat malicious) troll TC could pull on this community

[lethal burrow]

that's on the community for getting over zealous. The worst part is people not being able to let go of the ship tho

<@&283547423706447872>

[cedar dock]

I couldn’t get the @

But yeah I agree with that, still they had to know the floodgates they’d be opening with that

Other devs would buckle under that pressure

[lethal burrow]

they seemed to be quite oblivious to the fandom large during development as far as I'm aware... which explains a lot in plenty of ways

[lethal burrow]

it's a hard thing to avoid all that social media, but it had it up and down sides and the game is great.

[cedar dock]

Pellen is more active in this community than you think, at least prior to 2020

(Confirmed prior to 2020 I mean)

[lethal burrow]

sure, but that's five years ago

[cedar dock]

When lace was first revealed…

[lethal burrow]

For what it's worth bingo has been fun

[cedar skiff]

mind you people dont care and still argue it anyway

[lethal burrow]

somehow...

[cedar skiff]

truly incredible

i mean its their fault for getting attached to a pairing they mostly made up

just turn them into ocs atp

[lethal burrow]

TRUEE

[wise sand]

Leth not doing his job😭

[cedar skiff]

also i dont believe this because they did a turn around with the green prince verdania thing so fast lmfaoo

[lethal burrow]

That's different though that was after the game released

[cedar skiff]

id imagine the reason they dont say shit about like whether theyre “actual” twins or laces age is because the game like. tells you that So but i dont think the discourse flew under their radar

[lethal burrow]

I imagine now they're secretly watching all sorts of things

[cedar skiff]

oh yeah definitely

[cedar dock]

<@&283547423706447872>

Kill that bot

[lethal burrow]

<@&283547423706447872>

[lethal burrow]

Yeah, it's not like they did anything about hornet void back in the day so this makes sense

[cedar skiff]

also didnt they confirm shermas a boy or did i get silkposted

[lethal burrow]

i think that's real

[cedar skiff]

ahh

[cedar dock]

Tbh, my conspiracy theory is that an incredible dis-information campaign has been put into place to make Pellen look like he’s less terminally online than he is, he just roams on places of the internet none of us would think to look.

[wise sand]

Ngl i didn't think the green princes or lace thing were gonna be a giant deal until I checked the community. When I was playing the game I was just like "oh she's a child now ig"

[lethal burrow]

also Cc did you plan on releasing your video at the same time as Mossbags or was that a coincidence?

[wise sand]

Didn't even notice the princes twin thing

[cedar skiff]

the khann water thing was really funny though

[lethal burrow]

that's because it stems from a myth

[lethal burrow]

yeah same but then you look online and a few months pass by and before you know it... you're playing bingo

[cedar dock]

Also did Graig ever post that list of all the lore he spoiled secretly over the years?

[cedar skiff]

like they went out of their way to have the actual narration refer to her as a child They arent fucking around

the silksong unreliable narrator theory

[lethal burrow]

"child has an offspring. That's what it means. They're totally saying that that's a normal thing to say."

[cedar skiff]

okay but hornet is actually an unreliable narrator

or like a very biased one

[lethal burrow]

Yeah, but she's only the bottom half of the journal

[cedar skiff]

which i find great but most people treat her dialogue equivalent to lore tablets

the discourse that came from the devotion or destruction thing was insane

when its just hornets personal experiences

and like exaggerated opinions

[cedar skiff]

probably one of my favourite silksong additions

like her talking is already awesome but the extra characterisation is so fun

[lethal burrow]

ye :3

[cedar skiff]

its such a neat way to showcase some of her inner world

[lethal burrow]

She has so many good ones

[wise sand]

Tbf the "child as in offspring" thing could maybe apply to the lost lace entry i feel

People say that the caretaker is unreliable but trust him on everything else tho💀

[lethal burrow]

So goddamn true

[dawn sluice]

so the cc stands for conspiracy ctheory

[fervent sigil]

"Flee, sisters. Flee until your strength exhausts, so far you may escape at last her silken sight"
either to hallownest (specifically deepnest) or to steel city (hypothesis)

[olive quartz]

idt that is literally sight using silk but that anything relating to gms, the primordial source of silk, would be reasonably described as silken

[dawn sluice]

where are the bingo spaces for lace being a child

[olive quartz]

wait ccmaci?? do you just have. a normal ass discord presence lmfao

[dawn sluice]

we need another bingo card for both sides to use whenever they don’t like the other

[olive quartz]

i mean the caretaker more or less lies by omission about what the soul snare will do

[lethal burrow]

Someone else can make that

[silk dirge]

SNARE THEIR SILK

[cedar dock]

<@&283547423706447872>

[dawn sluice]

aw man why can’t you
we’ll give you 3 rosaries

[wise sand]

Bruh whats with the bots

[fervent sigil]

dk gng

[silk dirge]

theres been so many recently

[fervent sigil]

3 is 3

[lethal burrow]

i'm not gonna fight for people in denial

[silk dirge]

cogwork core is invading us or some shit

[olive quartz]

i mean the denial would entail that you can't write meaningful stories about hornet and lace's relationship that don't pause every 5 seconds to go CHILD CHILD LITERAL BABY

[dawn sluice]

welp time to make a bingo card for both sides so i can fight for the stupid people and the other stupid people
any ideas

[olive quartz]

nobody writing lacenet, or at least nobody worth defending, is writing because they want to ship adult x child

[lethal burrow]

Just invert what you can from mine and then come up with the other others based off of things you commonly hear people say

[twin dragon]

Y'all should make a "gms ruled the citadel" bingo card

[dawn sluice]

and what about making a new one for “lace isn’t a child” mockery
i gotta mock both of the stupid people sides

[lethal burrow]

I made mine to mock people who say she isn't a child

Well, actually, I made it to have fun while people argue about it but I know what side I'm on and I'm not pretending otherwise

[dawn sluice]

so anything you think can be improved

[olive quartz]

what is the point of arguing about this besides a gold sticker saying i'm a very smart boy

you don't even get the gold sticker lmfao

[lethal burrow]

The point is that maybe I get a bingo

and that's pretty worth

[dawn sluice]

is it edible

[atomic widget]

Chocolate wrapped in gold plastic award

[lethal burrow]

I actually haven't gotten one yet

Might need to drum up some more arguing about it

[twin dragon]

its ambiguous

the devs have never said she was a child

They were just insulting lace

[dawn sluice]

ALRIGHT
time to start an argument

[twin dragon]

Hornet has unc status

There you go, BINGO

[dawn sluice]

ahem

lace isn’t a child or adult, she came after the conductors and weaver era and isn’t a citizen, so she doesn’t exist

[silk dirge]

ANOTHER ONE

[dawn sluice]

WRONG SUMMON

[twin dragon]

The cogwork core is indeed finished

[silk dirge]

me about to start a new memecoin called rosarycoin

[dawn sluice]

argue now

[twin dragon]

Lace isn't even real, she's just phantom in disguise

[silk dirge]

LMAO

THATS CRAZY

[wise sand]

Lace is actually dead, hornet pushes her back into the void and steals her pin cuz it looks cool

[muted lantern]

I can't wait for elon musk to give me zero dollars and shoot me in the head

[silk dirge]

that was like 5 seconds

[twin dragon]

A ZERILLION DOLLERS🤑 🔥

[wise sand]

I love it when this happens

[silk dirge]

looks like someone needs to collapse the cradle onto irl cogwork core

how do we start act 3 irl

[muted lantern]

Hornet killed lace by pushing her into lava in her first fight, the accident happened 10 years ago hornet, you need to move on...

[dawn sluice]

i wonder why gms didn’t command lace to wake her up while she was asleep

[twin dragon]

Rip the hearts of 3 terminally ill people

[muted lantern]

I would get banned if i said it

[dawn sluice]

it’s not like they can’t just yell garama

[wise sand]

Kill [insert world leader]

[twin dragon]

I dont uh think lace could do shit

[muted lantern]

thats the gyst of what i was gonna say lol

[lethal burrow]

nah nah don't count you have to MEAN it

[silk dirge]

@ grok how do i ensnare a certain orange man?

[dawn sluice]

so if me and him can’t do it
who can

[twin dragon]

😭

[wise sand]

Go on reddit and you can fill the bingo out in 5 minutes

[muted lantern]

Have you guys seen that video where hornet kills lace 1 using only the taunt? death by ragebait

[twin dragon]

Death by unnecessary masochism

[muted lantern]

death by a thousand garamas

"Im sorry coach.. I-" "GARAMA!"

[dawn sluice]

imagine if you were able able to do that with poshankas instead

[muted lantern]

death by tinnitus

[dawn sluice]

imagine if you could replace gms challenge with POSHANKA

[muted lantern]

"damn hornet i didn't know you were chill like that"

[olive quartz]

this too is yuri

[muted lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/darkest-dungeon-ancestor-gif-21405227

[timber pond]

I mean, he IS mister mushroom. so anything is possible. Maybe he could even revive the hollow knight from the dead so all endings can "remain cannon" if he gets a game .

[muted lantern]

this would make a peak copypasta lmao

[wise sand]

😔 the knight should've left lace in the void to save us from this

[timber pond]

He needs a Gif of lemm Imitating the Ancestor cutscene lmao

Request this art NOW

[wise sand]

I mean she just got beat to near death + she's been soaked in a substance that's been slowly eating her

Its surprisingly that she wakes up at the end

[muted lantern]

here is an image if any should want it

[wise sand]

It is funny tho

[muted lantern]

I wonder if there will be any lasting effects to her dip in the void

[wise sand]

Lobotomy

[muted lantern]

or was she completely freed of it, despite the delicate flower running out and them both being exposed.

[wise sand]

She doesn't seem to have any on her at the end of the cutscene

She'll probably be fine after she gets some more silk if there were any effects

[muted lantern]

If you ever skongify the rest of the intro text send it to me i wanna make it a copypasta

You remember our venerable chat? It is a festering abomination!

I cant decide whether the ancestor holding his head or the ancestor reaching for the pistol is a better reaction gif

[wise sand]

Ancestor?

[muted lantern]

Known for such feats as fucking everything up and kablaming himself to leave his problems to his heir

[wise sand]

Oh

[muted lantern]

Hes a true legend of a character, never before have i seen someone have such a lavish life and think "man, I could just fuck my whole life up if i wanted to" then follow through.

@thin matrix

[slow locust]

child lace

also

does GMS calling PK white wyrm imply that he's an exception?

[wise sand]

Wonder how pale beings are formed

[slow locust]

as MISTER mushroom says wyrms go and create kingdoms and the only distinction GMS makes between him and any other wyrm is that he's white

[craggy smelt]

Bardoon also mentions multiple wyrms

[slow locust]

yeah but he doesn't say that a lot of them make kingdoms

[craggy smelt]

no, he does mention that they seemingly all share foresight though

wyrms having foresight and making kingdoms are apparently common qualities

we only know of one Pale Wyrm however

[slow locust]

I wonder if they can alter fate

[craggy smelt]

not if it's really hard, apparently

[timber pond]

The lore has been exauhsted

[slow locust]

herrah doesn't look like a weaver at all coff

and it will never be ?lock

[wise sand]

Gms is racist🤔

[slow locust]

yes

[abstract rivet]

my theory for that is

GMS elevated those spiders you see in citadel vents

instead of Pharlids

And thats why she lowkey looks different

[craggy smelt]

my theory is bear theory

[slow locust]

like the one in the ceiling?

[abstract rivet]

yeah

theres like big versions of them in whispering vaults

i really forgot what they are called

[slow locust]

there aren't any big pharlids

[half zenith]

Dying on steel soul while plasmified should give you a special ending IMO

[slow locust]

why tho

[half zenith]

Okay maybe not

[slow locust]

folded under 0 pressure

[abstract rivet]

lmao

[half zenith]

But it’s like. More like a fanfic thing. I assume you’re familiar with what plasmium evidently can do with corpses given enough time to accumulate

If you aren’t I will not spoil

[lethal burrow]

This is the spoiler channel so just spoil everyone OK

[half zenith]

Okay fair

[lethal burrow]

be not afraid

[slow locust]

why tf would the lore channel need spoilers

[half zenith]

…Because I had a brain fart

[slow locust]

yeah but the plasmium gets destroyed when we get hit

[half zenith]

Ah so you haven’t found out what happens if you use Architect to go over the normal limit

[slow locust]

I already know it

Plasmium overdose masks regenerate blah blah

[half zenith]

Yeah exactly. Would it be fucked up or what if the lifeblood was still in Hornet’s system after she got killed on steel soul or something.

[slow locust]

Well it's not in her cocoon when we retrieve so..

[wise sand]

😭 i saw somebody on yt shorts basically just repost a reddit post about this theory

https://www.reddit.com/r/HollowKnight/comments/1olykuk/hear_me_out_hera_is_a_drapemite_weaver_and_i_can/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

This post

[lethal burrow]

pale king is dead by void

[wise sand]

Pale king killed himself cuz he was bored

[slow locust]

there's void below him but not near him tho

[lethal burrow]

The weird Kingsmoulds outside the throne room, the void tendrils invading into the Kingmould the white Palace is stored in, the void particles in the throne room, the fact that we know void seeks out and devours soul (which, judging by the King soul, the pale king seems to be in abundant, if not infinite source of) etc etc I'm sure there's more but you get the point haha

it's either that or he died of sitting in a chair as far as i know

[slow locust]

yeah that's what i refered as below him

[lethal burrow]

there's void particles

[slow locust]

also he can just die like he did before

[lethal burrow]

it doesn't need to be presently there there's evidence of it having been there

[lethal burrow]

Where are you getting that he can do it again? What would that even look like? Is he even smaller now?

Did he not actually die?

[half zenith]

So according to Act 3, lifeblood can revive corpses but they’re mindless zombies that lash out at whatever comes close.

Honestly the fandom is sleeping on this excellent angst material for fic ideas

[hushed crater]

Well in pop the hk soul stones are either infinite or have so much that they are practically infinite

[half zenith]

That’s it thatd my discussion. There’s no fanfic writing channel so I gotta make do

[slow locust]

yeah but he had lifeblood buds and was in an lifeblood infested zone

[half zenith]

I do also wonder if attempts to use Void for necromancy were also made. Given the whole. Act 3. And that PK knew it was possible to make vessels by putting eggs in the void

[slow locust]

summoned saviour exists

[half zenith]

Right. That

I’m not fully familiar with steel soul stuff sorry

Anyway. The answer is yes it looks like

I do wonder what an INTENTIONAL attempt at using Lifeblood for necromancy would look like. The one instance we see is entirely unintentional and spurred on by infected vines growing into a corpse

[slow locust]

shove lifeblood bud inside of a corpse

[half zenith]

Yeah

Itd be really tragic if the person doing the reviving didn’t even know lifeblood could do that and was just trying to heal someone by feeding them lifeblood without realizing they were already gone

[wise sand]

Reasons why I think Herrah is NOT an evolved drapemite/why gms only uplifted pharlids

1. It's implied that gms only uplifted pharlids. If team cherry wanted us to think that gms made weavers out of other bugs, they would've put an example of her doing it.

2. The weavers refer to each other as "sisters, spiders" and, Hornet is referred to as a spider many times. This would be kinda odd if they didnt originate from the same non-sapient bugs. While mites irl are arachnids, they are NOT spiders.
   We don't even know that the drapemites in silksong are truly mites the same way mites irl are mites. Drapemites have 6 legs in both their in-game sprite and they're journal entry. Giant drapemites have 6 legs in their journal entry but 8 in their ingame sprite(potentially an error??). Also, drapemites are never called arachnids anywhere in the game but pharlids are called arachnids in their hunter's journal entry.

3. In the journal entry for pharlids Hornet says "Something in their assault reminds me of my own skill, though their talents are born purely of instinct. My technique is formed from hard training." It would be kinda odd for her to only say this about pharlids and not drapemites if her mom was a drapemite

4. Drapemites are only found in/near the citadel. It's quite likely that they evolved in the citadel/surrounding areas. The citadel was built after gms created the weavers so, gms wouldn't have had the opportunity to make weavers out of drapemites. Even if drapemites were present before the creation of the citadel, there would've been far fewer of them. It wouldve been easier and quicker for gms to just use pharlids since they've always been plentiful around pharloom.

Might be kinda off it's like 4am and I'm tired

[fading mountain]

Honestly anything goes as long as Team Cherry themselves never disclose it. Maybe TC just needed a special looking weaver to be the leader of weavers in Hallownest

Also, herrah the beast have 6 arms/legs

[wise sand]

So do all the other weavers

Arms/leg count isnt the best with hk/sk due to it being heavily stylized tbh

[fading mountain]

So the point of them being spider or not due to leg count doesn’t really add up

[fading mountain]

Yeah

[wise sand]

I was just say that there's nothing saying that drapemites are even arachnids besides the name. Team cherry also gives stuff names based off vibes sometimes too

Muckroaches are NOT in anyway roaches

[fading mountain]

Right. I also want to add that the citadel could have already existed before the weavers. And the weaver only made it grander. I don’t think it was implied that the citadel exited only after the creation of the weavers.

[wise sand]

I think its this tbh

I don't think theres any concrete lore reason for why she looks the way she does

[wise sand]

They built it as a cage for gms i think

[fading mountain]

No, they made the citadel into a cage for GM.

[wise sand]

Hmm

[fading mountain]

Before that I am sure the citadel existed, the weavers and GM silk built upon it. Then found out about the lies and made it into a cage for her.

[wise sand]

Who would've even built the citadel if not the weavers/pilgrims?

[fading mountain]

She is a higher being able to control bugs with a singular thin strand of silk.. surely she was already planning her great castle before the creation of weavers. it just a theory, but it makes sense imo.

[fading mountain]

I want to say it doesn’t say anything if the citadel existed before weaver’s creation. Since it Hornet who shouldn’t have any knowledge of pharloom’s past.

[wise sand]

That part is the mask maker talking

[fading mountain]

Also the fact that the citadel could have had a different name before being the citadel.

[fading mountain]

Ah I see. Well I guess I am wrong.

[heavy gyro]

The citadel was also very bare when the weavers bequeathed it to the pilgrims

[wise sand]

Even during the phase where it was unadorned(how pious isamor talks about it) there were still pilgrims singing n stuff

[heavy gyro]

So it couldn't have been a great castle for gms

[fading mountain]

I like to think that the citadel could of existed before the weavers. And that after the creation of weavers they expanded upon it. Then made it into a cage for GM silk after the discovery

[wise sand]

So the weavers had already started the pilgrimage culture atp

[fading mountain]

I think you are right, but without a proper time line of how long and when the weaver discover the truth. Can’t say for certain

It would make sense if the citadel never existed. But after the weavers discovered the truth they had pan this long pain staking plan to create this monstrosity called the citadel and screw up the rest of pharloom

[wise sand]

I could see the foundation of it existing maybe but nothing more than areas like greymoor. given that it was unadorned, gms probably didn't care about it personally before the weavers

[fading mountain]

Yeah no, lacking a lot of informations on the citadel to say for certain

[hushed viper]

Tbf, just because it isn't stated doesn't mean it isn't true

for example while yes she does state pharlids have similiar techniques to Hornet/reminds it of her. The attacks from Pharlids and Drapemites are still similiar enough for them to possibly be related

But again, there's examples irl of animals with similiar techniques but completely different species and Drapemites and Pharlids might be like that

[wise sand]

😔 what happened to occam's razor

[wise sand]

Hornet would've definitely mentioned it tho

[hushed viper]

It got added in Terraria 1.4.4

[fresh kraken]

is hornet a goddes at the weaver queen ending

[timber pond]

She turns into a new entity with that status yes. But its not hornet anymore

[fresh kraken]

ye i wish she stayed the same

she is like a giant coocoon, also has 8 legs

[stray fog]

Did the weavers know about the weaver queen

Like a prophecy or something

Because herrah mentions "queen" as one of the expectations that the weavers had from Hornet

And they hoped that someone with enough silken strength would come to free them from gms

"to craft a world as I desire" seems to indicate that they knew that Hornet was powerful enough to become a higher being

[lyric widget]

I don't think they necessarily "knew" about it, but they were definitely trying to create/birth a divine child who could bind Grand Mother Silk and take her place

[fresh kraken]

where did u find that from

[fresh kraken]

i mean the caretaker in songclave also says "do you want to be our queen?" at some point when you do a lot of quests

[stray fog]

The wiki

Hornet says that to the white lady

[stray fog]

So a weaver binding / absorbing gms was a common idea

Anyway

the pale king giving some bugs a mind was similar to gms evolving pharlids to make weavers

maybe all pale higher beings can evolve other bugs

[heavy gyro]

Pale king evolving bugs seems to be more of a wyrm trait rather than a pale trait

[abstract rivet]

why is Herrah different then

like this mf looks nothing like it

[heavy gyro]

Retcon

[abstract rivet]

oh bet

it might be just an Overanalysis

[dapper willow]

team cherry might just have changed their mind about her appearance
Some explanation would always be nice though

[heavy gyro]

She wasn't originally a weaver in the original game so they slightly changed her design in the red memory

[abstract rivet]

Her design is still kinda similiar tho to her old one

But yeah its most likely retcon

Don’t gotta think too much about it

if Hornet’s a spider then so is Herrah

[turbid grove]

I just had a crazy idea, and it probably doesn’t make any sense, but:
What if the reason the Farsight runes are similar to the cast of shell, and the Farsight is found in the Abyss, is because of the theorized Abyss higher being being a Wyrm, and possibly being connected to the Battle of the Blackwyrm?

[bleak maple]

Anyone got a screenshot of dude who might create a Architects?

[teal drift]

Herrah was just a chunky weaver tbh

[hearty bolt]

I thought the mask changed her physique which is why she turned into a hallownest-looking creature

[stray fog]

Which abyss higher being?

[lilac hedge]

The only higher being in fromthe abyss is the shade lord or atleast when fights radiance

[hearty bolt]

what's the blackwyrm?

[stray fog]

A battle that took place in hallownest

[harsh birch]

A battle that's mentioned in HK

I forget where it's mentioned exactly in the game tho

[dire lynx]

white defender journall entry

[lilac hedge]

White defender entry

[harsh birch]

Ah that would make sense mhm

[hearty bolt]

dang, how come it's nowhere visible on the wiki

[stray fog]

Its on the page for wyrms

[dire lynx]

its at the top of the page for white defender

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/White_Defender

[hearty bolt]

didnt load for me, now I see it

[stray fog]

When I saw "black barrens" in silksong, my first thought was "black wyrm"

But if the black wyrm was killed in hallownest, it couldn't have made its own kingdom

[stray fog]

But bardoon said that wyrms transform when they die so idk

[heavy gyro]

It could have made its own kingdom and then died after battling in hallownest

[sinful nimbus]

They probably weren't fighting an actual wyrm

Nor could they beat one

[stray fog]

Wyrm vs wyrm

We've never seen the pale king throw hands

[sinful nimbus]

But it wasn't PK fighting the battle it was Ogrim and co.

[stray fog]

The pale king could have joined