sk-lore

[eternal gazelle]

they're laid out quite deliberately in the critical path of the pilgrimage so they probably helped with that

[lapis creek]

this could have all been solved if hornet had to remember the sound each bell made and play a fivefold melody

[craggy smelt]

were they all bound up with silk, or just turned off, I can't remember

[timber pond]

Yeah Predictive programing for The Pilgrims lol

[lapis creek]

but i suppose that was already done

[craggy smelt]

I know some were

[lapis creek]

i think only widow's bell is bound

[eternal gazelle]

widow's was but that was just a coincidence because she needed that shit there to string up bellhart

the deep docks one was in the demo but not the final game

[unique tangle]

widow and first shrine

[lapis creek]

ok first shrine yes

[craggy smelt]

hrmm

[spark valve]

it is fun how many potentially redundant systems exist to keep the song going and yet

[craggy smelt]

just switched off the others I suppose

[spark valve]

the songshrines
the choir
the cogwork core

[unique tangle]

full chamber to the bell shrine in far fields
"please turn it off ty"

[lapis creek]

why does mr mushroom say he wouldnt have come to pharloom if not for hornet's actions

[eternal gazelle]

reminds me of a certain egg

[lapis creek]

wouldn't gms have inevitably woken up and passed the age either way

[spark valve]

if it wasn't for the act 3 transition an age wouldn't be ending

the game is pretty clear in considering the citadel's reign an extension of gms's

[sinful nimbus]

Kinda tuff

[spark valve]

it's cool

[silk dirge]

i mean tbh an age also wouldnt really be passing in thk or sealed siblings endings

[spark valve]

an interesting perspective to take

[limpid summit]

You know exactly why

[lapis creek]

true?

[limpid summit]

Khann and Nyleth would have woken up and rebuilt

[silk dirge]

you are basically just extending the stasis of hallownest

[limpid summit]

Kingdom wasn’t dead until Hornet killed it

[craggy smelt]

wouldn't exactly have been the end of the world/kingdom, the Conductors confess that Silk was always in charge, at the center of things, even when she was bound

[lapis creek]

based oml

[spark valve]

tk will eventually fail so an age will still pass eventually

[lapis creek]

kate was right tc really did fuck it up

[limpid summit]

Yes exactly

[lapis creek]

hes early

he cant see the future

[sinful nimbus]

that's a lie 🥀

[limpid summit]

Mister mushroom watching sealed siblings happen

“Oh shit wrong one”

[spark valve]

"oh gosh I jumped the gun by a few generations"

[limpid summit]

Well actually

[eternal gazelle]

yeah, unlike radiance, Silk has no interest in flipping the table

[limpid summit]

Consider TK wondering if Hornet is okay after and Rad infecting it immediately

[craggy smelt]

well... she did seem to want everything bound to her

...Bind them all...
...Raise them... Up...
...To devote... Eternal...
...One mind... One union...

[limpid summit]

Sealed siblings is truly the worst ending

[silk dirge]

mister mushroom probably watched hornet get captured and was like "alright i better get to writing that next poem"

[lapis creek]

the poem was written during act 3

[silk dirge]

twisted child is worse i think

[limpid summit]

Okntrue

[lapis creek]

assuming causality

[eternal gazelle]

yeah, but putting everything under her control wouldn't destroy the kingdom

[spark valve]

sealed siblings is a good ending for what it is because what it is is contrast to dnm

[eternal gazelle]

the infection has the end result of destroying the bodies of all of its hosts

not so for the haunting

[spark valve]

well

[limpid summit]

How did anyone ever believe TK was pure 💔

[unique tangle]

has to be
"Over camp collapsed to the black thread plight,"

[craggy smelt]

by understanding what purity really means

[limpid summit]

Yeah this is the argument I use to say EtV is canon

[unique tangle]

unless he has foresight

[spark valve]

whiteward shit is there but that's not necessarily just gonna happen over time

[sinful nimbus]

Sealed Siblings means Silksong doesn't happen ❤️‍🩹

[lapis creek]

yes this is why i said assuming causality

[limpid summit]

Sis forgot seal breaking bugs 💔

[sinful nimbus]

jokerpsa is DEAD

[unique tangle]

full chamber couldnt crack that egg open

[limpid summit]

Full chamber couldn’t stop Seth

[spark valve]

oh yeah it's still really funny that just happens with zero elaboration

[limpid summit]

Seth > Sharpe?

[craggy smelt]

I wonder if those would actually have worked on any seal
I gotta say probably not at this point - pharloom/Citadel only
cuz Lace knows the password

[foggy fractal]

https://youtube.com/clip/UgzlVc4LM4J6_DfuscZ4AaABCQ

No ending stops Hornet from being captured, and the ability to break seals with bugs from Pharloom makes Hornet being locked in the Black Egg not an issue. Dreamers also don’t die when sealed, we simply didn’t have the means to remove them without killing them.

[timber pond]

Truth Nuke

[limpid summit]

He was probably out of town killing Jiji or something

[sinful nimbus]

🥹

[unique tangle]

in a powerscaling sense or

[silk dirge]

seal breaking bugs are just silkflies right

[sinful nimbus]

If Seth > Sharpe then Shakra > Sharpe

[silk dirge]

why are we still calling them that

[limpid summit]

Well the Steel Servants just sort of let the chamber take their slave

[lapis creek]

i will begrudgingly accept this

[eternal gazelle]

we're a little bit closer to figuring out what the hell that was

[sinful nimbus]

We can't forget our history

[limpid summit]

They didn’t even get too many casualties

[eternal gazelle]

we know silkflies are dead people now

[spark valve]

sure

[lapis creek]

i wish they gave conductors some more agency

but its ok

[limpid summit]

But uh Sharpe isn’t like a guard of the steel city

[timber pond]

This shit was Before

[limpid summit]

Maybe they just have bums guarding the slave catacombs

[spark valve]

silkflies are fucking everywhere though so if they do that why does anyone in pharloom use rune cages

[eternal gazelle]

they gave up their agency with their total jackass stunts

[sinful nimbus]

1 in 100 chance for a unique cutscene of the slab cage breaking after being captured

[limpid summit]

Is Steel City a giant spear-shaped skyscraper with a massive growstone at the center that pumps out servants

[eternal gazelle]

I think the deal is that the silkfly in the intro may have been a particularly important person

[spark valve]

I mean they had a fair amount but part of the point the game is making is that they were also kind of slaves to the system

[craggy smelt]

either Lace had them free Hornet because she was hoping Hornet would die in a breakout
or they help Hornet for their own reasons, wanting things to change in Pharloom

[spark valve]

fuck it romino silkfly

[limpid summit]

Okay

[sinful nimbus]

TRUE

[spark valve]

why not there's a conductor body there

[timber pond]

Well thats all we vaugely know.

[unique tangle]

i want steel city to be one giant living steelheart

[sinful nimbus]

Yes there's an offscreen Silkfly extractor in the Blasted Steps

[limpid summit]

PENlS ISAMOR

[silk dirge]

i mean its agreed lace sent that silkfly right

[limpid summit]

Okay I found a way around it

[timber pond]

Mabye the Silkfly was Romino

[craggy smelt]

maybe

[silk dirge]

it seems pretty clear to me

[eternal gazelle]

okay you're not allowed to get around automod like that but also I don't care

[limpid summit]

Maybe the silkfly was the adult Weaver we see

[silk dirge]

bro caught slacking

[lapis creek]

not in the cheesedogg rewrite. they are behind the haunting and whiteward is an operation designed to extend their influence

[spark valve]

let him cook

[spark valve]

I mean whiteward is that still

[craggy smelt]

I seem to recall silkflies showing up around the weaver shrine in moss grotto
I don't know why Lace would want them to actively help Hornet in that case, so they might act on their own

[eternal gazelle]

yeah they have their own wills, they're the things piloting the cogwork constructs

[lapis creek]

whiteward is for immortality it extends the influence of the haunting by accident

[timber pond]

They might React to Music or runes or smthing

[limpid summit]

Imagine the weavers scaling blasted steps like “when did this get all gold” and getting teamwiped by Last Judge

[lapis creek]

no longer

[lapis creek]

LMAO

[unique tangle]

why are there silk flies in the mist even and why do they behave differently

[spark valve]

the weavers showing up expecting to find gms just chilling with the other weavers still forced to just sing to her every now and then and then getting grabbed by fucking nobodies and eaten by their mom for silk

[eternal gazelle]

the mist silkflies actually behave the most like how they're expected to

[craggy smelt]

this is one case that really makes me think Lace is involved, she wants to setup a final fight so Phantom can go out the way she wants

[eternal gazelle]

the second whiteward commandment mentions the patients becoming a guiding light

[unique tangle]

lace the mastermind

[spark valve]

the moss grotto ones also do it

[eternal gazelle]

yep

[craggy smelt]

she's a good sister
in a way
sometimes

[eternal gazelle]

they're assistants to the pilgrims

[unique tangle]

i mean they kinda also do that passively too

they lead hornet up moss grotto

[limpid summit]

“Ah, Weavers. We were looking for you.”

[eternal gazelle]

so you were just talking about them needing the needolin

[unique tangle]

yea

[eternal gazelle]

idk maybe the music snaps them out of their smog high

[limpid summit]

Wait wait

[spark valve]

ok but also the ones who did it were the fucking losers the weavers used to munch on as snacks

[limpid summit]

How many silkflies lead hornet out of the Mist

[eternal gazelle]

all of them

[unique tangle]

3 per bunch iirc

and they appear everywhere randomly so theres not a set amount

i think its 3 in the first scene and 6 in the transition corridor

[limpid summit]

Adult Weaver, Seeker Shaman and Gilly’s father

[spark valve]

seeker shaman's soul is uh well accounted for

[limpid summit]

How does phantom create the wraiths

[unique tangle]

the only possible options

[limpid summit]

Fair

[craggy smelt]

imbues her will into the silk in the mist

Not a bug but a projection of another's will in smog and Silk.

[timber pond]

DLC Npcs 🔥

[silk dirge]

who is seeker shaman

[limpid summit]

I genuinely could see Bilehome becoming some fucked up town

[spark valve]

the snail groal killed

[limpid summit]

Hm

[silk dirge]

oh

[sinful nimbus]

Remove the last one

[eternal gazelle]

are we sure that's phantom's will? I kind of assumed it was just GMS's will ambiently coming into being from silk being gathered into a solid form

you know, like Lace and Phantom

[limpid summit]

How you think she does that

[silk dirge]

why would he be an npc

[craggy smelt]

I would love that - more reasons to return to Bilewater

[silk dirge]

groal killed him

[limpid summit]

Uh

[craggy smelt]

pretty sure, they look like Phantom

[limpid summit]

They are literally her

[unique tangle]

its cause the mist disappears after phantom dies

[unique tangle]

so she was creating them, also yeah they look like her

[limpid summit]

[eternal gazelle]

you know that's true, the silkwraiths probably aren't even real

[opaque parcel]

is hornet correct in her assumption that the bloatroach flies because of noxious gas?

[limpid summit]

Forgot how visceral this emoji is

[spark valve]

that's not really in line with the gms dialogue from silk hearts but is contextually relevant to phantom

[eternal gazelle]

got it

[craggy smelt]

we need some way to get to Barloom Bay the first time

I fucked up writing Barnacle and Pharloom at the same time but then you know what? I went with it, it works

[unique tangle]

we will in the Stilwater dlc

once Bilewater is cleansed the passage to bay is unblocked

[limpid summit]

Bug named Charon or something: “Ride my crusty boat through these maggot waters and I’ll take you to the bay!”
: Aye, ferryman. I must find the source of this blue affliction.

[spark valve]

disclaimer if somebody named charon invites you onto their boat do not get on

[limpid summit]

This is fanon because Hornet doesn’t care about lifeblood

[sinful nimbus]

Also she wouldn't say aye

[craggy smelt]

shit, they need him to quote the ferryman from Symphony of the Night
that guy was fucking ecstatic to be a boatman

[limpid summit]

She will let Pharloom die

[sinful nimbus]

That's reserved for pharloomians and Lemm

[unique tangle]

"find the source of this blue affliction" didnt you just cause the very same afflication across the kingdom

[craggy smelt]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwiQujiJK9Q

[limpid summit]

“Duhhh that wasn’t ME”

[silk dirge]

"Ride my boat"

[limpid summit]

Collect my boat planks

[timber pond]

Hornet rides out on a boat in the bay
spooky lifeblood beast tentacles come out of the water and drag the boat down
undersea adventure
peak

[spark valve]

hornet takes the boat out of pharloom and then the ferryman demands she pay up in geo because rosaries aren't legal tender in any civilized realm

[craggy smelt]

controllable diving and swimming was gonna be in the first game
now is the time

[limpid summit]

I think I had a dream about this

[unique tangle]

we cannot have a swimming mechanic without also bringing back coral gorge

[timber pond]

A quest inti the Bays depths to find a counter to lifeblood spread would be sick as fuck

[limpid summit]

My other silksong dream was genuinely wack

They’d call it Deathblood 💔

[craggy smelt]

i had one where you fight an owl in a mansion in a swamp
that one might be a longshot though

[limpid summit]

Fearless fox?

[craggy smelt]

that must be it

it was a prophecy

one dev map mentioned a mansion in greymoor we never really got, that was too bad
maybe it eventually became yarnaby's little place?

[limpid summit]

Maybe chapel of the reaper

[timber pond]

Idk man I cant imagine aris artstyle on a chracter with real eyes and not holes💀

[limpid summit]

Some mansion 😭😭

[craggy smelt]

bit of a downgrade

[craggy smelt]

assuming a lot about fearless fox
he did that short film with humans and they're still pretty bugg-style
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQxPWT-ifyI&list=RDqQxPWT-ifyI&start_radio=1

[stable violet]

i wanna say something but its hard to keep up with what topic this is

[craggy smelt]

now is the time, current topic is winding down

[unique tangle]

greyroot:

[stable violet]

its kinda hard to say anything tbh, half the time i see people discussing retcon this or doesnt make sense that

[craggy smelt]

"this retcon doesn't make sense!"

there, got it out of our system

[stable violet]

that isnt the issue, i prefer finding explanation or a reason why something is like that but i feel like id just get told its a retcon, i mean how can you justify/explain the little weavers or how lifeblood works

[muted lantern]

some people here are more interested in complaining about things rather than trying to understand them

[stable violet]

or hornet kinda being uh comically not a good person in a few cases, like sure a grey character is one thing, justifying killing karmelita after already obtaining 3 hearts for example is another

[craggy smelt]

they're literally just small adult weavers!

y'know, like short ones

[unique tangle]

little weavers would have to be a different species that look similar to weavers but arent true weavers

[muted lantern]

weavers can canonically have kids, it's just hard

[unique tangle]

plasmium would have to be the results of zylotol's experiments and not just naturally like that

[random aspen]

is there a reason she harrasses green prince btw

[craggy smelt]

gross thought, what if getting Infected made them more... uh... fertile
Rad's thralls still have the instinct to breed

[unique tangle]

and uh hornet being a bad person is kinda just how she is idk if theres an explanation for that

TC just wrote her that way

[random aspen]

theres more good in her than bad though

so i wouldnt say shes a bad person

[stable violet]

the plasmium stuff is another example of hornet being a kinda bad person, if she knows the dangers of it and yet still helps the spread of it, uh with all due respect she needs to step down that pillar kinda

[silk dirge]

ah shit here we go again

[random aspen]

lifeblood in hallownest isnt really hostile though

[dry bridge]

hornet's actions do not actually assist the spread of plasmium, it overgrows the wormways in act 3 regardless of hornet's actions.

[stable violet]

yeah i never understood that either but i was too upset over the fact i couldnt go back to verdania to notice, like, i miss the ambiance so much and that got yoinked away from me the same way i get yoinked out of an area in hk

[eternal gazelle]

I don't think it's accurate to say that hornet contributed to the spread of plasmium but she didn't do anything to stop it

[unique tangle]

it depends on the playthrough

if she helps with the wishes then shes contributing in one way or another

[eternal gazelle]

the plasmium extracts taken for the research are used for the plasmium phial development

[random aspen]

why would she, i feel like she didnt know that stuff could infect and take over like that

[eternal gazelle]

the damage is already done because the lifeblood has been seeded

[spark valve]

she says she did

[stable violet]

hornet personally says that she is familiar with the dangers of it regardless so that is kinda mute point

[spark valve]

In my home caves, when once this substance was allowed to flourish, I saw similar aberrations. This is wonder tainted strong with revulsion.

[random aspen]

yeah but she doesnt mention the severity

its probably dangerous to inject to much of it but she probably didnt know that shit spread like that

[eternal gazelle]

I mean the question this leads to is what you could even do to stop the spread

because you can beat it back with your needle but that doesn't do anything

[random aspen]

i dont think hornet couldve done anything

theres no instance in hallownest where lifeblood takes over and turns them into walking reanimated corpses

joni is like chilling

[spark valve]

I mean now there is

hornet says it happened so it happened offscreen

[random aspen]

so i think hornet had no idea lifeblood can do all the things it did in pharloom

[stable violet]

yes the same bug that has "nah i win" energy to take on gms somehow cant do shit to stop lifeblood

[lapis creek]

i still think between games is the most likely candidate for when it could have occurred

[eternal gazelle]

yeah this makes sense, most of the lifeblood instances we see in hallownest are very small

[limpid summit]

I think that’s a genuine character flaw of hers that we can point out in a lore sense without seeming bothersome about it
She calls Lifeblood an alluring power in the Zango entry she’s too curious and just wants to see what might happen

It’s not a big thing

[spark valve]

sure it doesn't really matter

[lapis creek]

i guess her being vulnerable to the corruptive influence of power is sort of a character trait she has now

[eternal gazelle]

also I saw the idea posited that the knight doesn't have a reaction to lifeblood "overdose" because the vessels were already created to contain infection

[random aspen]

lifeblood is the only infecting thing we see thats in both hallownest and pharloom so i'd assume its really really hard to get rid of

its also in godhome

[spark valve]

I mean hornet can also handle it better than most it might just be a wyrm shell resilience thing

[eternal gazelle]

it's not the kind of thing I think actually needs explaining but it is neat

[random aspen]

if hornet gets rid of lifeblood in pharloom its gonna come back eventually always

so why would she bother

[stable violet]

its better to contain it then allow it to spread then

[spark valve]

it can be managed if you just keep managing it

[random aspen]

whats hornet gonna do ask random pilgrims to help out

heres 15 rosaries

[stable violet]

thats like saying why should we bother trying to manage and mitigate the damage of an invasive species, that doesnt fix the problem, its better to slow the damage done at least

[spark valve]

during the course of the game probably not but she should probably do it afterwards

[eternal gazelle]

Hornet probably isn't staying in pharloom at all

[spark valve]

all the more reason to give somebody advice on how to deal with lifeblood

[random aspen]

yeah she probably leavs with lace after silksong

pharloom is not saved bruh 💔

[slow olive]

Would hornet know how to deal with lifeblood tho?

She just says she's seen what happens when it flourishes

[stable violet]

saves a kingdom from gms and the void
leaves pharloom
damn

[silk dirge]

lifeblood spire is probably going to give us more answers on plasmium stuff

[eternal gazelle]

idk lifeblood infection is pretty bad but it's probably not nearly as bad as hallownest's infection or the haunting because it isn't being driven by a vengeful god

as far as we know

[spark valve]

it's still bad enough to be worth dealing with and hornet seems to think it's awful bad

[limpid summit]

Do you think Lace will age and fray

[random aspen]

theres a giant lifeblood creature in godhome but theres like no info on that thing

[limpid summit]

Post act 3

[silk dirge]

nah

[spark valve]

if denied silk maybe physically

[edgy nebula]

not if she gets more silk

[limpid summit]

Yeah that’s what I’m saying

[silk dirge]

hornet has infinite silk when resting at a bench

[slow olive]

Without gms she could age and fray i guess

[limpid summit]

Oh I guess Hornet could just infinitely supply her

[foggy fractal]

grand mother hornet

[silk dirge]

lace is getting hard carried by eva

[random aspen]

after silksong she obviously knows its bad but i dont think she can do jack tbh unless theres some gigantic lifeblood catalyst boss that she can kill its just gonna take over

[spark valve]

hornet's already a better mother to lace than gms

[silk dirge]

you would never believe what was on a silksong map from august of this year

[eternal gazelle]

hornet's body is a machine that turns hot spring water into years of Lace's life

[stable violet]

i think part of the reason i stuggle to talk is that i didnt do all of act 3 tbh, i know the final boss and ending but i didnt do anything else, ig ill come back here after i try to do everything else

most of what i wanna know, the weavers, is probably already answered by now though

[silk dirge]

she doesn't even need that anymore

sylphsong is gonna be the only reason lace is staying alive

[foggy fractal]

😭

[silk dirge]

eva clutch up

[eternal gazelle]

okay yeah but A) sylphsong isn't an ending requirement and B) water is funnier

[silk dirge]

i mean if we really want to think here hornet probably gets sylphsong canonically

[edgy nebula]

if you dip lace into water and wring her out will she be fresh as new

in sk-lore we ask the real questions

[slow olive]

What is the washing and drying process for silken stuff

[unique tangle]

If you drop lace into maggot water will she be eaten whole

[silk dirge]

probably

[slow olive]

Oh damn she would be

[edgy nebula]

lace vs groal who wins

[unique tangle]

Phantom sure is working in dangerous conditions then, she’s one dip away from death

[random aspen]

groal just camps in the maggot water

[silk dirge]

survive my gauntlet

lace edition

[slow olive]

She thrives in danger

[unique canopy]

Well for real silk it's very fragile and you need to carefully handwash it, but Weaver silk is super soul infused so just shove Lace into an industrial washing machine for an hour

[spark valve]

even if she didn't get it before sotv she could potentially get it after not like eva goes anywhere

[silk dirge]

yeah

[dry bridge]

depending on who put phantom there and when, this is probably another way to control her & make sure she does her job

[random aspen]

i dont think theres any way to confirm this but i wonder whos older lace or hornet

[slow olive]

Were lace and phantom made post-bilewater

[random aspen]

like did gms make lace before herrah had hornet

will never be answered

[unique tangle]

Hornet is older

She’s like at least very old

[slow olive]

I dunno u could argue hornet is older

[unique tangle]

Like 30 or something

[slow olive]

Herrah left when gms was asleep that much is certain

[random aspen]

yeah but lace is like at least 3 years old

[spark valve]

herrah left before gms was asleep

so like a long time ago

[slow olive]

Before?

[snow cedar]

Lace may have also not been the first silk being made

[random aspen]

hallownest is super old

[spark valve]

herrah would've been in the cindril group so yeah

[silk dirge]

no shit

phantom exists

[unique tangle]

Silk being named phantom

[random aspen]

phantom might be older than hornet

[snow cedar]

And the other three

[slow olive]

Didnt the weavers do a mass exodus from pharloom while gms was asleep?

[spark valve]

no

[snow cedar]

In tanks

[unique tangle]

The other 3 are cut content

[slow olive]

When did those weavers leave

[unique tangle]

They aren’t real

[spark valve]

before the citadel to escape gms

[silk dirge]

me when i sleep at the organ

[random aspen]

evas probably older than hornet and lace right

[slow olive]

Where's the confirmation for that in game

[unique tangle]

Funny prank you can do on your friends during a sleepover

[foggy fractal]

organ sleepers 😴

[random aspen]

ts is so confusing bro

[snow cedar]

They still exist in the background of phantom place that I forgot the name of right

[spark valve]

the cindril rune harp

Plea of a Weaver from the furthest edge of Pharloom.
"Flee, sisters. Flee until your strength exhausts, so far you may escape at last her silken sight.
To start anew, to sustain, free of web and service eternal."

[unique tangle]

They do not no

[foggy fractal]

they do not

[snow cedar]

damn

[spark valve]

they wouldn't have to escape her silken sight if she was asleep forever in the citadel

also the weavenests in general are pre citadel, atla even has a prototype songshrine bell

[slow olive]

This doesn't exactly give confirmation whether they left before they got gms to fall asleep or after when they realized gms would just awake from their slumber.

[spark valve]

they never realized that

[random aspen]

weavers made the cool elevator shit in atla and then never used it again wtf were they diong

[spark valve]

Last words of the Weavers.
"Sisters, spiders, the burden is passed. These simple bugs shall bear it full. Never to cease. Never to silence.
We shall die, and wait, and pray, that one may come of silken strength enough to weave us free."
the weavers in pharloom died out believing the citadel would work in perpetuity

[unique tangle]

Why didn’t the weavers just make another elevator to teleport silk into the abyss

[spark valve]

the conductors just had a generational fumble with whiteward and fucked it up

[random aspen]

why didnt they just put gms on the elevator machine and send her all the way down

[silk dirge]

the bigger fumble is not being able to match the music notes at the top of cogwork core

[spark valve]

tbf it might've been a bit further from full function than just that

[timber pond]

Just don't eat it?

[spark valve]

hornet gets it functioning enough to hear the music but that doesn't mean everything's all hooked up to the right pipes and shit

[slow olive]

Why would some weavers escape pharloom if this was the case

[spark valve]

they left before she was sealed as I already said

before the citadel

[spark valve]

.

[muted lantern]

man sometimes i regret going on tumblr, i open the silksong tag and someones shipping widow and first sinner

[unique canopy]

Doesn't Mask Maker say the Citadel was designed and built by the Weavers to keep GMS asleep?

[timber pond]

Well, considering no one goes on Tumblr anymore I can see why you would find something that deranged lol

[spark valve]

there are different groups of weavers in pharloom pre-citadel

the weavenests were places groups of weavers used to hide away in and make plans for how to win their freedom, some built weapons, some came up with the citadel, some decided to just run away

[slow olive]

This is where im coming from too, why would a group of weavers leave the citadel when the ploy of the citadel seemed to be a pretty united front for all the weavers in pharloom to do so they could take over as the "gods" of pharloom

Since weavers themselves had that desire to be seen as divine

[wild zinc]

Tbh if you think about it if you simply don’t do the call for a hero wish and go straight to beating the game then garmond survives cause the black thread is gone

[spark valve]

it was a united front for the weavers who hadn't already left

[muted lantern]

why does she write like this

[slow olive]

Hm we seem to have a difference on timeline then

[spark valve]

the presence of a prototype songshrine in atla indicates that the weavenests predated the citadel

and the ballador rune harp being the last words of the weavers and its contents indicates that the weavers who did rule the citadel didn't flee, they just died

the cindril rune harp was much earlier

[snow cedar]

I’m fairly certain pharloom’s language writes vertically

A lot of the writings are on vertical scrolls

[muted lantern]

no i mean why does she hold a quill with both hands like that

[snow cedar]

She smol

[muted lantern]

does she not have hands??

like i get artstyle wise none of the bugs do but like

most bugs have hands and can hold things in universe

[foggy fractal]

no most bugs just have claws

[spark valve]

claw is the hk-ified word for hand

[snow cedar]

She’s also a child iirc

This could be the equivalent of holding a pencil clenched fist

[foggy fractal]

I can only name like 3 bugs with actual hands
thk, qurriel and mask maker

I'm sure theres like 2 more though

[spark valve]

forge daughter

moss druid, swift

[foggy fractal]

oh ho ho ho ho

[spark valve]

all vessels proooobably do

tiso does, and grimm but grimm is a shapeshifter

[foggy fractal]

does swift only have 3 fingers

[spark valve]

maybe

[foggy fractal]

yeah he only has 3

afaik tc was consistent with doing 4 fingers

[pale narwhal]

also the other maskmaker too

[foggy fractal]

he doesn't have hands

[slow olive]

Wonder where forgedaughter's land is

[spark valve]

I think they mean the hk one who very much does

[foggy fractal]

yeah he does

but he said "the other maskmaker"

oh bunch of those big corpses also have hands/fingers

[snow cedar]

I think in general big bugs have visible hands cause it fits better in the art style

And bugs where the focus is on the hands

Like elderbug having a visible mouth

Cause all he does is talk

[spark valve]

yes although while many bugs presumably have hands that just aren't drawn (especially vessels) it does seem like some bugs don't, such as mantises, which are nonetheless able to grip things just fine even with claws that lack fingers

[glacial thunder]

Doesn't Grandmother Silk have hands? That is, if she qualifies as a bug

[spark valve]

she has hands but is very much not a bug

[foggy fractal]

also void given focus has hands

[craggy smelt]

she mentions a Forgehome pledge to the Citadel, it's probably still within the bounds of Pharloom
the fabled Z-Axis...

[foggy fractal]

how does Seth hold on to the cymbal like a shield there's no strap at all 😭 is bro magnetic ?

[spark valve]

counts under vessels

[foggy fractal]

yeah

[spark valve]

hairs

[craggy smelt]

magic

[spark valve]

if you listen closely during the fight you can hear velcro when he throws the shield

[snow cedar]

gecko feet but it’s skin

[ionic bear]

sometimes i forget how much of an absolute unit forge daughter is

shes literally circle shapes

[craggy smelt]

a lot of that might be the bell armor

[ionic bear]

i wanna see forge daughter without her armour actually

[glacial thunder]

Might be a false knight situation

[ionic bear]

well actually, i think shes huge under it too, bc that bit at the bottom IS her

[unique canopy]

Take the helmet off and she's just a maggot

[ionic bear]

so shes just massive i guess

[craggy smelt]

(probably not really)

[glacial thunder]

Prime El Macho vs current El Macho

[ionic bear]

karmelita ahh message

[rugged storm]

this sounds really weird, but I wish there was a wood wasp area in shellwood that's hell, similar to brightvein or voltnest

[glacial thunder]

Fair.

[ionic bear]

do you guys think karmelita had game or no

[snow cedar]

Now that karmelita’s dead surely a new skarrsinger appears right

[rugged storm]

in an ant colony the queens lays all the eggs

[ionic bear]

well yeah but did she have game?

[glacial thunder]

She probably did. Looking at the nature of her culture, and the fact that she was the best warrior, probably

[ionic bear]

follow up: did khann have game?

[glacial thunder]

Nah.

[rugged storm]

a baby karmelita pops out broodmother style?

[ionic bear]

i feel like khann did NOT have game

[rugged storm]

he was the ultimate gamer

stuck in a tower

[glacial thunder]

He was probably like Biff in Back to the future

[snow cedar]

Khann had genghis levels surely

[muted lantern]

I don't think khann has any idea what romance is

[rugged storm]

he's a khan but lacks the genghis

[ionic bear]

GANGUS!!!

[rugged storm]

mb I'm gonna fail history

[snow cedar]

tbf gengis was also wrong im pretty sure
Ive edited my message

[midnight zinc]

There’s like three characters in all of HK that have game

[rugged storm]

nippolean

[ionic bear]

anyways nyleth has infinite game, we all agree?

[glacial thunder]

She a plant. I don't think she needs game

[rugged storm]

fjord washingmachine

[midnight zinc]

She’s literally a vegetable, can’t imagine how boring a date with her would be

[ionic bear]

nyleth be pulling all the pollip flowers

[glacial thunder]

All the trees and vines would smash

[midnight zinc]

Sherma has short king soft boy type game

[silk dirge]

nyleth wilted rose isnt real it cant hurt you

nyleth wilted rose:

[rugged storm]

he's a child

[ionic bear]

lowkey i just pulled out a chunk of my beard on accident??

[glacial thunder]

Isn't Sherma a "she"?

[ionic bear]

shwarma is a grown ass man

[midnight zinc]

People keep saying this, is he not just a whimsical grown man?

[snow cedar]

grayroot

[glacial thunder]

We need that as an emote

[midnight zinc]

Garmond also has good vibes

And Shakra obviously, I don’t need to explain that

[ionic bear]

SHAKIRA MENTION!!

[glacial thunder]

Garmond absolutely has game

[midnight zinc]

New worst server emote oml

[snow cedar]

Ok I said this jokingly but like
what if
grayroot
new nyleth

yeah nah nvm

[ionic bear]

grayroot dead

they both died

[rugged storm]

sister splinter

who's also dead

[ionic bear]

splinter is died

[glacial thunder]

It would be sick to see Nyleth corrupted by the parasite

[rugged storm]

It would be cooler to see the white lady's reaction to it

[midnight zinc]

Even fewer characters from the first game have rizz tbh, there’s like Sheo and Grimm and that’s it

[ionic bear]

pond catcher #5 is gonna take nyleth place

[rugged storm]

would she look at it with disgust or see it as a baby

[midnight zinc]

That would give too many answers and be too interesting so it won’t happen

[snow cedar]

Canonically pk

[rugged storm]

true😔

[midnight zinc]

No he has aura, there’s a difference

[ionic bear]

zote somehow had game

[rugged storm]

pale king and white lady

[glacial thunder]

I think because of it's nature, she would probably try to get rid of it

[midnight zinc]

Nah Bretta is just desperate, that doesn’t count.

[ionic bear]

we all agree that elderbug is a huzz magnet tho right??

[glacial thunder]

In his prime, probably

[ionic bear]

sly is a huzz magnet actually, i KNOW he had game

[midnight zinc]

The pale king doesn’t have game, he’s the equivalent of Jeff Bezos getting a hot wife because he’s super rich

[glacial thunder]

All of this is lore related btw

[midnight zinc]

Sly is probably a secret freak tbh

[ionic bear]

white lady loved him

[ionic bear]

THATS WHAT IM SAYIN

[ionic bear]

this is really relevant, we are discussing the lor eof characters

[rugged storm]

the skarr and verdanians tho have so many children

[midnight zinc]

White Lady was a chump

[rugged storm]

all those scouts are young and those baby verdanians

[ionic bear]

i think grey root would listen to mitski

NO grey root would listen to MGMT

shakra is a mitski type girl

[midnight zinc]

Greyroot would listen to NF or something

[snow cedar]

Grayroot would play league of legends

[midnight zinc]

Just something edgy in a really cringe way

[ionic bear]

lace would be a billie eilish fan, but in her gay era

[midnight zinc]

You’re giving her taste too much credit, she’s obnoxious and tasteless enough to be a swiftie imo

[ionic bear]

and phantom would like billie eilish in her emo era

[glacial thunder]

I feel like Sherma would be a swiftie

[ionic bear]

lace could NOT be a swiftie

[ionic bear]

sherma wouldnt either

[midnight zinc]

Absolutely not, he listens to some basic old shit like the Beatles

[random aspen]

sherma would bump to ajr

[ionic bear]

i think sherma would be a fan of doechii

[midnight zinc]

Now you’re just saying anything

[snow cedar]

Phantom listens to Radiohead on repeat interspersed with classical music

[ionic bear]

actually

sherma is a chappell fan

[midnight zinc]

Karmelita 100% listens to Beyoncé

[ionic bear]

oh definitely

[snow cedar]

The vaultkeeper listens exclusively to things kept in the vault and thinks everything else is an abomination

[ionic bear]

flickr also is a chappell fan

[rugged storm]

last surgery of conductor mizello🔥

[ionic bear]

i KNOW frey and pavo rock out to rammstein together

[midnight zinc]

Green Prince is obviously a Hozier fan

[ionic bear]

very true

pinmaster i feel doesnt really listen to music, but he DEFINITELY likes to listen to men whimpering asmrs

[midnight zinc]

Trobbio listens to Queen

And Hornet listens to Kendrick Lamar

[ionic bear]

100%

[midnight zinc]

But only his last two albums

[ionic bear]

no she does not??

[midnight zinc]

Yeah she does

[ionic bear]

hornet listens non specific pop songs

[midnight zinc]

She literally showed me her Spotify wrapped

You’re selling her so short that’s crazy

[glacial thunder]

As not really a music person, I'm lost

[midnight zinc]

Kratt listens to 30 Seconds To Mars

(Jared Leto’s band)

[ionic bear]

lugoli's favourite song is 100% big booty judy

[midnight zinc]

Gilly listens the the Hollow Knight soundtrack

[silk dirge]

based

fayforn probably listens to celeste ost

[midnight zinc]

True

I know someone already mentioned Radiohead but Steel Seer Zi’s favorite album is Ok Computer

[ionic bear]

Zi's favourite artist is mozart

[muted lantern]

bell hermit has really interesting lines if you speak to him before freeing bellhart

[limpid summit]

What’s he say

[stray fog]

Did vespa know that hornet would get kidnapped in the future?

[timber pond]

Probably. But Shes also Equally saying this about the froces of the world at large and not just GMS and pharloom (probably abig one though)

[stray fog]

This has DLC potential

Maybe the steel masters fear hornet's nature

[timber pond]

I mean if we Get some kinda memory Vespa Boss fight thing sure/

[timber pond]

THat is one option i was thinking of as well.

But i think The steel Masters Fear alot of things lol

[spark valve]

not specifically by gms's forces, but it's not exactly a hard thing to conclude about a pupil with the kind of abilities hornet has

[muted lantern]

well i mean assuming she was friends with herrah enough to be entrusted with her child i presume vespa might have been informed about gms

but its more likely a general warning of people wanting to take advantage of her

[muted lantern]

do you guys think theres a bug in the hk world that serves the same purpose as real world fleas? ie, something that lives on hairy creatures, in this scenario, could hollow knight fleas get flea fleas?

[timber pond]

Team Cherry Have not Thought of Ticks yet💀

(thats For game 3)

[muted lantern]

team cherry if they were good game devs: "put ticks in bilewater"

[timber pond]

Also reminder now we have 2 types of magot

[craggy smelt]

and I'm glad!

because muckmaggots are like pokemon

all those evolutions are great

[muted lantern]

muckroaches are my favorite dog

[timber pond]

Fire art https://www.tumblr.com/mebis-art-dump/741181670255984641/two-kindly-bugs-lie-resting-in-grottos-of-their

MEBI's art dump

Two kindly bugs

Lie resting in grottos of their own

Their blessings, an aid

They ease passage

To the hiding place

Of Great Beings

And their boons

-# #hollow knight #krita #digital art #fanart #mebi's art #hk lifeblood #hk isma #kindly isma #isma's tear #joni the kind heretic #hk joni #blue child joni #joni's blessing #hollow knight unn #Unn #hk unn #lifeblood creature #hollow knight lifeblood #lifeblood core #lifeblood #lifeblood beast #shape of unn #hk fanart #hollow knight fanart

Tumblr · Feb 2, 2024, 3:52 AM

[craggy smelt]

oh yeah, I saw that for the first time just the other day
MEBI's stuff is great

I guess we know one of those is bad now

or shit, maybe they both are...

that would be a blow

game 3, Unn, final boss

[timber pond]

I dont think they are "bad"

We Forget what the radiances infection actually was

These things are manifestations of a Gods will over the world

Thats why the Radiance is such a twist IMO, Because you See THIS EXACT MYTHOS throughout all of hollow knight 1

[craggy smelt]

well if lifeblood isn't exactly evil, it's definitely a lot less benign than we thought

[timber pond]

its no suprise that each "force" of the world has a creator

[timber pond]

It is more of a choice than The Infection is

Its prerequisite to get in your head seems to be Consumption, and alot of it.

And i assume only an equaly powerful force is the only thing that can negate it (pale being blood, the void absorbing these things ect)

[craggy smelt]

I don't know about that
it spreads throughout a region
and Zylotol may have been helping things along and injecting beasts, but we still see the result of a lot of it

if there's a god behind it, its either not paying attention, or it is and that's troubling

[timber pond]

i think It spreads far more slowly than what we see in silksong tbh. It was aperently inert at the bottom of the Lake his master found it in.

[craggy smelt]

Hornet's mentioned seeing the results of overdoses before though

so unless someone was there doing the same thing Zy was...

[timber pond]

I think it does pay attention, but its the opposite of the radiance.

1: It does not want to be seen Directly (seemingly)
2: it lets The Bugs Choose If they want to host it Through temptation

It Only really gets to be a problem when the stuff (the vines and Butterfly's) are everywhere and everyone eats it

Radiance was far More Malvolent Because she got in Through Dreams.

[craggy smelt]

like Freddy Kruegar

[timber pond]

lol yeah

[craggy smelt]

Zy mentions Lifeblood actually feels good, so it's enticing as well

maybe addictive? he doesn't exactly seem in his right mind by the end of things

and I wonder what happened to Zango exactly, what killed them...

[timber pond]

I think LBB Wannts the Lifeblood to spread slowly but surely enough so he can PULL REAL SPACES into His "Dream", Basically the oposite of Unn.
i think this is what the Lifeblood door in the abyss is

And No one is any the wiser

[craggy smelt]

hmmm

sinister

man I hope we get that Lifeblood spire DLC...

[timber pond]

Granted, i think all of these god s want their "control" to Spread in a certain way to achive a partiular thing. So its kind of a pick your posion type thing.

Nightmare Heart feels like the only "Stagnant" one Unless they pull Bugs into the Troupe Through some means to make it bigger

[craggy smelt]

it seems the most benign, funnily enough
targets only 'dead' kingdoms, its thralls have independent thought, and they can leave if it is seems like they're not on board with what the Troupe is doing

[timber pond]

Sort of? I always thought they all get wired into the nightmare heart and thier crests "change" to it so to speak

At least thats what i got from the NKG fight

Godseekr and nightmare heart sort of operate off of some kinda Shared Magic mabye? some kind of mind Link?

sort of like what radiance does.

[craggy smelt]

their minds change when they join it, seemingly overwritten with a new personality and new mask
but Brumm can still go against the Heart's desires, so its not like he's a mindless slave

[timber pond]

True, But what im saying is Who knows if the nightmare heart Overwrites them to its advantage or not? Technically you can "leave" but are unlikely to with your new personality.

[fossil ledge]

MEBI makes amazing art. Been following them for a while now, I use their art for my wallpaper

[timber pond]

Kind of Interesting that Brumm and seth have a similar "Wake up" of forgetting everything prior after they "Leave" their posts

[craggy smelt]

another point in 'Nyleth is a higher being' column maybe

[timber pond]

Im starting to think Either A: Magic Higher beings use is Knowledge based and not necessarily Strictly Stuck to them.

Or B: Some of these Higher beings ATAINED that status through events of the past and are able to use those magics much more effecintly to maintin themselves.

like vampires

Or Nyleth is one idk.

If B is true, Then Pale Beings Might be the exception.

[stray fog]

Quirell too

[heavy gyro]

Always bet on greyroot higher being

[stray fog]

That matches how the knight and hornet both become higher beings in some endings

[abstract rivet]

Is hornet in auntie or grandma status

[craggy smelt]

neither she nor her siblings have any kids

[abstract rivet]

No i mean like age

[craggy smelt]

...I wonder if she ever adopted anyone...

[timber pond]

GRandma imo

[abstract rivet]

nah she ain’t that old

[marble oasis]

I don’t believe greyroot is a higher being considering the rebirth through GMS was not at all part of the plan

[craggy smelt]

she's like a billion years old

[abstract rivet]

yeah not that old

[craggy smelt]

might as well be

[timber pond]

She is that old💀

[marble oasis]

If you think about it lace is HER aunt

[abstract rivet]

no like a billion years of age isn’t that old

If this game taught me something you gotta exist for 2 trillion years to be a unc

[marble oasis]

Several hundred if not thousand imo

[abstract rivet]

lace is an artifical life form

[marble oasis]

yeah but on the family tree

[abstract rivet]

She basically a magical silkdoll

[timber pond]

I think maybe "Higher beings" are something we look at the wrong way.... It might even be a goal to be attained

Considering That might be whatver Comes out of the Twisted Root ending

Most all Bugs want to go higher or Lower.

Except shamans, Them fucks are chracterized by breaking the rules

[abstract rivet]

That loser is a bit too smoll to be a higher being

Higher Being must be super big

Vespa and Karmelita are exceptions i ain’t hearing shit about them

[marble oasis]

lord of shades

[abstract rivet]

yeah that mafaka is as big as the radiance if not bigger

[marble oasis]

That’s shade lord

Lord of Shades is the Knight in Void form

[abstract rivet]

errr

Bro is just typing shit

[timber pond]

I think mabye both Forms are just "The Knight" transforming so its interchangeable kinda

[heavy gyro]

Roots were called higher beings by team cherry a long time ago, so if thats still true, then greyroot is probably also a higher being

[abstract rivet]

Lord of Shades and Shade Lord is the same shit buddy

Void given focus

[timber pond]

Just Two different names for an Ideal The AC wanted

[abstract rivet]

AC?

[timber pond]

Ancient Civilization

[marble oasis]

nope lol

[abstract rivet]

whats your evidence

[marble oasis]

lord of shades does not require godseeker focus, only void united under vh

[abstract rivet]

Do you realize Shade Lord and Lord of Shades in the english language are basically the same thing

Pick a different name bro 😭

[marble oasis]

They called "Root" a higher being specifically referring to WL, it could be that all Roots are higher beings similar to how we assume all Wyrms are but no proof

[timber pond]

I actually kind of think The knight CAN become that as soon as he gets void heart. Its just either ,Like you say, the conditions arent right or he has no need to in Dream No More because the Hollow Knight is there to help him.

[marble oasis]

Oh I absolutely agree

Makes it so annoying to discuss

[heavy gyro]

Yeah but why would they name them by species and not name

Considering they say radiance in the same sentence

[timber pond]

The way we use the word "Higher Being" Is sort of Foreign to in world terminology really tbh.

[abstract rivet]

I could decimate Greyroot to atoms in a 1v1 she ain’t that stronk to be a higher being forreal

[heavy gyro]

Greyroot is strong enough to take over both gms and hornet

[abstract rivet]

she just caught us offguard to inject a parasite

[marble oasis]

If that were the case I would think they would say Wyrms and Roots, Pale King is often referred to mononymously as just Wyrm rather than the White Wyrm or Pale Wyrm so I think Root is the same here

[abstract rivet]

My thread storm and cogwork wheels say otherwise

[timber pond]

I mean Parasites Can kind of Invalidate power like that. The Catch is they require a host/Condition to work lol.

[heavy gyro]

Yeah maybe

[abstract rivet]

is the parasite a product of Greyroot?

[timber pond]

Pretty sure

her vines are all around it

[abstract rivet]

Basically the parasite is the strong guy not Greyroot

[timber pond]

BEcaue her roots can "Spread freely"

[marble oasis]

White Lady is referred to as Root in "Soul of Wyrm, Soul of Root" but I suppose you could argue that any time a wyrm and root procreate something like a vessel comes out

[abstract rivet]

Wait what am i talking about that was a horrible argument

[timber pond]

The parisite is not strong itself, its only as strong as the host it overtakes

[abstract rivet]

Why does Greyroot randomly inject it to us

What did we do other than helping

[marble oasis]

It was supposed to kill us and feed off our body

[timber pond]

There is actually a comnadmnet that refers to him as "the White Wyrm"

[marble oasis]

See all the husks in the Witch Chapel

[abstract rivet]

Can’t be grateful nowadays

[marble oasis]

I know, and the mushrooms call him Pale Wyrm, but I just meant he is also called Wyrm alone rather than specifying which Wyrm every time

[timber pond]

True.

IT makes you Think How and why they are Pale really.

[marble oasis]

Oh my god you can't just ask someone why they're Pale

[heavy gyro]

She has a ritual where she transfers her conscience to her offspring to live eternally (sound familiar?)

[timber pond]

Look its not the same. Im Talking about it like, An albino alligator.

[marble oasis]

I don't think Greyroot transfers her consciousness

[timber pond]

Dang man, who can i learn the baby Consciousness magic ritual from?

[marble oasis]

Also, whatever Greyroot is I don't think what we speak to is the actual mind of it

[heavy gyro]

It's called the rite of rebirth

[abstract rivet]

Welcome back Troupe Master Grimm

Except this guy doesn’t have aura or hype moments or a cool boss

[marble oasis]

We have no way of knowing if Greyroot's consciousness is in the child

[heavy gyro]

Why would it be rebirth then

[quiet peak]

when we finish the fight with the clover dancers, we get the conjoined heart but is the item a fused combination of both of the prince's hearts or from just a single prince?

[marble oasis]

The Prince's lover's heart is long gone

I'm assuming it's GP's only

[craggy smelt]

greyroot could be like the Grimm Troupe guys that plant the nightmare lanterns
part of a means for a higher being to reincarnate itself, without actually being the entity itself
so the HB leaves these twisted buds around, along with things like Greyroot that prep for its revival

[stray fog]

Its gotta be the hearts of both

[stray fog]

Time travel logic allows us to get both hearts ig

[timber pond]

Meh. I kind of think its more like an expansion on why the white lady "binds" herself So her "Seed" doesn't spread. Except greyroot is parasitical and white lady might not be

[drifting trellis]

Is void a liquid?

Can I.. put some in my coffee?

[marble oasis]

Item description just calls it “heart of the Green Prince”, not Princes

[timber pond]

Conjoined hearts is typically a trait of Twins .... wait 💀

[fervent sigil]

is vespa a wasp or a bee

she is a queen bee but her name is "wasp" in latin

[marble oasis]

This made me go searching and I actually can't find if the Hive is ever called bees in game

[timber pond]

She is a Queen bee i think

[marble oasis]

They are however called bees in the Wanderer's Journal

[timber pond]

Hmm

[atomic widget]

Wasp nests arent hives

[fervent sigil]

wait this isnt a hive?

[marble oasis]

If we're going to get semantic about it a hive is a man-made bee nest

[atomic widget]

Its certainly more husky and greyish rather then yellow and filled with honey

[fervent sigil]

ah true. vespa's name doesnt directly mean shes a wasp but just resembles as said in the wiki

Despite being a queen bee, Vespa resembles a wasp.
This is further emphasised by her name, as "Vespa" means "wasp" in Latin and Italian.

[atomic widget]

Bee with the name of a wasp, bravo Team Cherry

[marble oasis]

It's also a moot point considering they named Hornet Hornet

[atomic widget]

Wait isn't Vespa the name of a hornet species

instead of wasps

[fervent sigil]

"Hornets are a type of large wasp, but the main differences are size, coloring, and aggression"

[marble oasis]

A hornet is a wasp of the Vespa genus

[fervent sigil]

thats interesting since vespa trained hornet

[atomic widget]

Maybe she had to take on the characteristics of a wasp in order to survive in a world like this?

[marble oasis]

do you mean vespa or hornet

[atomic widget]

Vespa

But it would apply to both

[fervent sigil]

i guess since she and her hive walled off from the lands of PK

[atomic widget]

But for Hornet it was more on circumstance

[marble oasis]

Before seeing RM I wouldn't have said that Vespa was a fighter in her own right considering she was guarded by Hive Knight

But I suppose she does wield a stinger of her own

[atomic widget]

Is she wasn't a fighter then she wouldn't have been able to train Hornet

[marble oasis]

That wasn't canon until RM, yes

[atomic widget]

Having security is just good in general

[fervent sigil]

whos rm

[marble oasis]

red memory

[atomic widget]

Red Memory

[fervent sigil]

but isnt hive knight there to protect the hive and vespa's corpse when she dies

since there will be no hive king or queen to protect and rule the hive

[atomic widget]

Then why would he guard her corpse to begin with then

If there wasn't any purpose to it

[marble oasis]

He protected her in life as well

Are you watching?
When you wake... the Hive...

[atomic widget]

I mean she's a good fighter, but she's still not a one man army

[robust wagon]

Well she was his queen, he would've loved her

[lilac arrow]

So, Grand Mother Silk is grandmother of Hornet which means Lace and Hornet are related

[atomic widget]

kind of yea

[marble oasis]

By family, not by blood

Lace is Hornet's aunt, strictly speaking

[atomic widget]

I mean both do contain Her silk

[lilac arrow]

In Hollow knight you fight your older brother, in Silksong you fight your grandma and aunt

[atomic widget]

Big family huh?

[craggy smelt]

I guess you fight a couple of aunts, don't you

Widow and First Sinner would be from the same generation as Herrah
and Phantom

[marble oasis]

Older sister as well, also all vessels are the same age so that includes THK and BV

[atomic widget]

Is Hornet older then the knight?

[craggy smelt]

maybe by a little bit

[atomic widget]

Because the knight (If taking the void climbing vision literally) was there at the same time as the pure vessel

[craggy smelt]

I feel like PK would've gotten his dreamers ready before producing any vessels

[marble oasis]

I disagree, I think the Vessels are older than Hornet, because it would make sense to actually have the Vessel ready before securing Dreamers to seal it

[atomic widget]

Wouldn't he secure the dreamers After securing a vessel?

[marble oasis]

but with wyrm foresight any order is possible

[craggy smelt]

I guess it depends on how much of the plan he had worked out before starting

[atomic widget]

I mean hornet said she didn't get to see her mother much before she fell asleep

which means there already was a grown pure vessel at that time

[marble oasis]

that's also my reasoning

[craggy smelt]

alternatively though, he's got his vessel ready and then has to wait for however long it takes for Hornet to develop, be born, and spend time with Herrah

[marble oasis]

Herrah talks as if her sleep is imminent in RM, when Hornet is still just a child

[atomic widget]

Even if he secured dreamers before, it wouldn't change the fact that they still went to sleep after the vessel was already grown

[weak helm]

I uh, have a questions about the ||sister of the void|| ending. Mainly cause I only vaguely remember the original hk lore from a 1 hour lore video i watched like 4 years ago or so
||Was the shade that saved hornet the knight?||

[static narwhal]

Yes

[weak helm]

sweet, that's awesome. thanks

[viscid ridge]

Is there any concept art of hornet. Ive been wondering about what she looked like earlier into development?

I know team cherry creates a character in like less than half a week, but there should still be some early sketches or something?

[craggy smelt]

the very earliest art I know of is this

but to my knowledge there aren't anything like sketchbook pages of her available

[viscid ridge]

Same, but ive been wondering if there are like sketches of her from before promo art. Ive looked around but i dont think there is

[lyric widget]

Mola and I had a hypothesis in the past that Makoto Koji provided the first design for Hornet. In the 11th kickstarter update, they show off one of her drawings of the Knight, and they look very similar to Hornet's final design (this was before Hornet was ever revealed) https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/11662585/hollow-knight/posts/1075970

[marble oasis]

oh hey sumwan

[lyric widget]

hey

[marble oasis]

are lore docs still happening for ss

[lyric widget]

for sure yeah, we're open to adding new docs, I still need to update my own docs as well, but that's absolutely going to happen in the near future

[marble oasis]

excellent i will be submitting some in the future

[lyric widget]

oooh cool, I'll be looking forward to that

[marble oasis]

red memory is after hornet's birth though

she somehow became swollen after after giving birth

so not related directly to bearing hornet

No actually I can't read

Very sorry you were right the first time

[viscid ridge]

I dont think she is thin in red memory. To me personally it just looks like she is hiding her body under her cloak. I still think so unless we somehow get a view of her standing up

[marble oasis]

look at how her clothing doesn't drape over any kind of stomach

[viscid ridge]

I think i have a guess as to what the Steel Children are. We get a mention of nails having some form of sentience, or atleast pure nails do. So my guess is that Steel Children are beings made entirely of Pale Ore. Jinn in the first game has a similar steel mask to Hornets masks in Silksong, which are said to be made of Pale Ore (but this isn't concrete only visual similarities). We also see Zi has a outcrop of Ore above her head that has the same markings of Pure Nails, which makes me think that that is what they are made of

[craggy smelt]

TC should patch the original game to change her appearance
"What retcon, shut up, fuck you."

[viscid ridge]

I get what your saying, but my personal interpretation is that her throne looks like a ball of yarn from the top, or atleast is soft on the inside, making her sink in. Honestly thats just my opinion tho, but i think Team Cherry will address it some time or another

[fossil ledge]

I personally find this to be highly unlikely. Little Weavers look identical to the adult Weavers we see in Hallownest, just smaller. They also wear red garments, which are seen being worn by Weavers. Deephunters and Stalking Devouts wear the dull blue garments.

There also isn't much to suggest Weavers ever put masks identical to their own on other creatures.

I also thought of this recently, but we don't actually ever see the Spider Tribe use silk in any of their attacks. Only Weavers are mentioned using it, and it's seemingly Weaver silk that was traded with Hallownest to make parchment with

[fossil ledge]

The stone outcrop sprite is called palestone_outcrop

[viscid ridge]

And even if she is supposed to be thin like the other weavers, i think its supposed to be a redesign, and not actually relevant to lore

[marble oasis]

Good catch on the Pale Ore lookalike above Zi, but I think Jinn's mask shape is a coincidence and Mask Shards aren't even necessarily made of Pale Ore

[viscid ridge]

Yeah the mask similarities are very vauge, but i just wanted to point it out

[fossil ledge]

Aren't Ancient Masks in Silksong described to be made of pale, cold ore?

[marble oasis]

Also, what are you talking about with sentient nails?

[viscid ridge]

I do have to point out that the mask shards in Silksong is describes as being made of of Pale Ore

[marble oasis]

You are right it seems

[viscid ridge]

If i remember correctly there is mentioned somewhere in game that Pure Nails have a bit of sentience, i think from the Ancient Nailsmith, but I'll quickly go check

[marble oasis]

Oh right, the Quickslash nails longing to be wielded again

[fossil ledge]

Might be charm magic, though

I think until TC decide to update HK to change a few things that were retconned in Silksong we'll just have to accept there's a few inconsistencies

[viscid ridge]

Yeah exactly. My personal belief is that it works kinda like how wands work in harry potter. Like their not alive, but they have a semi will of their own

[fossil ledge]

Editing the Mushroom Clan tablet, removing or redesigning Little Weavers and updating the Weaver models, including Herrah's, would go a long way I think

[marble oasis]

It annoys me so much that the sire of honoured caste would have been the perfect Weaver candidate, but 1. no male weavers and 2. Hornet is not even his daughter

[spark valve]

I mean

weavers are also kind of all female

[viscid ridge]

Why remove little weavers? Im pretty sure they are supposed to be nimble weavers, not children

[spark valve]

that was an edit it doesn't count

[marble oasis]

i still got it in before you

[spark valve]

🧢

[viscid ridge]

The Higher Caste of deepnest still interest me a lot, but i doubt we'll get any lore about them since they do not directly pertain to Hornet

[fossil ledge]

They're a fraction of the size of the other Weavers, who otherwise are of identical size. The implication is these are either young Weavers or possibly hybrids, which goes against the lore established in Silksong

[marble oasis]

NB no little weavers are actually found inside weavers' den

[fossil ledge]

Adding Weavers of different height in Silksong, even as mirages or something, would've gone a long way to making Little Weavers simply small viable

[heavy gyro]

Infection messed up their uplifting trust

[fossil ledge]

Wiki also comments as much. No clue why this is, honestly. I guess maybe too annoying while traversing a lore-rich area?

[marble oasis]

there's deephunters though

[fossil ledge]

Yeah, oddly enough

[viscid ridge]

Before silksong i would have thought they are children, but now i only seem that as being a smaller varient of weavers. They are only described as nimble, not as offspring, and we do know there are quite a variety amongst weavers, so to me it doesn't really contradict the lore. We also have to take in mind that the weavers have been in deepnest for quite a while

[fossil ledge]

Sure, but all the Weavers we see in both games (Herrah and Hornet aside, obviously) are identical in height and build, with only horns and spikes varying in Silksong

Little Weavers are legit a third of the height of the big ones

[marble oasis]

i don't see why weavers would gain this ability

[viscid ridge]

I just think they infested it after the weavers left. 2 of them are found in cracks in the floor and wall so

[past cypress]

I like the theory that Herrah just got bigger due to having a child

[viscid ridge]

I doubt that weavers can do this

[past cypress]

Like it was a prerequisite that the PK helped her achieve

[spark valve]

except it's wrong because she grows after that

[marble oasis]

taps the sign

[spark valve]

yeah

red memory herrah is smaller but post partum

[fossil ledge]

This makes the most sense. As for why there are no Little Weavers in Weaver's Den, perhaps cause there's no food or something? Nothing to hunt? Doesn't explain why there are Deephunters there then, though

[viscid ridge]

Mark my words, in future dlc, in a little corner of pharloom, team cherry will add a pharlid variant that looks exactly like Hornet and Herrah

[fossil ledge]

Hornet isn't as big a deal, cause she's offspring of Herrah and Pale King

Mostly just need a Pharlid that looks like Herrah xD

[fossil ledge]

All TC really needs to do is make Drapemites canonically an arachnid in the HJ entry and we're good lmao

[heavy gyro]

Mites are arachnids irl so you can already make that assumption

[fossil ledge]

Obviously, but this needs to be confirmed in-universe

[viscid ridge]

It doesn't matter if drapemites are arachnids, what matters is that drapemites only started existing after the citidel was built, so it way too late for them to have been turned into weavers

[marble oasis]

The bigger problem is we're not shown any creature other than pharlids being elevated

[fossil ledge]

Oh, and add a silk-ghost somewhere in Cradle or something of a bunch of Herrah look-alikes playing the harp xD

[spark valve]

they literally retroactively changed herrah's appearance the way she looked in hk just isn't how she looks anymore

[marble oasis]

source?

Pharloom's structures seem almost built for them.

[fossil ledge]

It's implied cause they live mostly around the various abandoned textiles in the Citadel

Don't recall if it's outright stated anywhere

[heavy gyro]

That doesn't mean they didnt exist before

[fossil ledge]

They seem to either make use of or naturally blend with the textiles, which is odd if they were there before the Citadel

[viscid ridge]

We do have some art in the game files that show the pharlid divers also may have gotten ascended, which i think the divers are the round headed weavers, while the pharlids are the spiked headed weavers

[fossil ledge]

Certainly still possible, though

[marble oasis]

hj says they and the giants are covered in cloth, thats not their flesh, but i don't see how that means they couldn't have existed before

[fossil ledge]

Indeed

[spark valve]

cities are so perfect for rats, surely rats didn't exist before cities

[viscid ridge]

Ill get it

[fossil ledge]

Good point. Add a new memory Hornet can unlock at some point that shows us a Drapemite being ascended, revealing it to be Herrah lmao

[fossil ledge]

These show up during First Sinner's memory

After defeating her

[marble oasis]

yeah just chuck some drapemites in there and we'll be sorted

[viscid ridge]

Yeah, but the divers weren't

[spark valve]

there's not really anything to explain atp herrah looks plenty in line with other weavers

that's probably why they redesigned her the way they did like it's not a coincidence that ss both establishes that she is a weaver and modifies her appearance to remove the biggest inconsistency

[marble oasis]

i disagree

[fossil ledge]

Pretty sure they do but lemme check

[marble oasis]

you could say the horns are part of the headdress but then how did hornet inherit them

[spark valve]

there is a part of weavers' heads that can be removed

[viscid ridge]

Even if the drapemites are supposed to be another weaver origin, they don't really have any similarities to the pharlids. Pharlids have a very unique look to them with their 4 eyes and weird bendy legs, while the drapemites have more in common with the mites in greymoor.

[spark valve]

we see this with widow

[marble oasis]

also notable is that in rm she sits with her legs identically to the normal weavers

herrah's horns are exactly the same shape as hornet's though

[marble oasis]

hard disagree on the drapemites being more similar to greymoor mites than pharlids

[spark valve]

the horns are biological yes

[fossil ledge]

Top right

[marble oasis]

i deadass thought he was part of the roof lmao

[viscid ridge]

I never noticed that, so than its not even a question, they were both used to make weavers

[fossil ledge]

They're certainly hard to spot in this memory, given the layout and how dark it is, but I knew I recalled seeing them!

[fossil ledge]

Indeed

[fossil ledge]

Well, I've found these lol

[craggy smelt]

I buy it

[marble oasis]

important to note that pharlids do still have an abdomen, they're not sticks like the weavers

[fossil ledge]

Very true. Though their legs are remarkably similar to that of Weavers

[fossil ledge]

Also can't believe I just noticed this, but the shadow Weavers' garments defy physics lmao. Guess they must have woven strands to keep the garment entirely in place even while upside down xD

[marble oasis]

they invented an entire organised religion it makes sense they would be quite modest

[fossil ledge]

Aren't most bugs naked, though?

[vestal swan]

That's pretty true for the first game but considering the pilgrims and the citadel are all wearing robes I don't think that's true of the second game

And there's other groups of characters with clothes

[stray fog]

If the weavers were so smart and powerful, why are some of the small weavers in hallownest infected

Bugs that are much weaker didn't succumb to the infection

[vestal swan]

You're right they should be about smart enough to just resist it, but you don't have to get attacked in the mines to get infected by that point, she was raising the dead too. She could have infected something lesser and attacked them and then raised them. Which gives me a crackpot idea

Tiny weavers are failed weaver children, equivalent to like a stillbirth or something, affected by the curse and not born but taken over by the radiance when she showed her light in deep nest

[misty stirrup]

maybe they got infected for power a la traitor lord?

[vestal swan]

If they did that most of them wouldn't be dead

[marble oasis]

they wouldn't be so little then

[vestal swan]

And they definitely would not willingly submit to a new God

[misty stirrup]

the weavers share the same desire for power as pale beings

[marble oasis]

stalking devouts are said to be herrah worshipers

[stray fog]

Yeah

[misty stirrup]

are the little weavers even cannon anymore?

[marble oasis]

well they must be

[vestal swan]

I just gave a nice explanation for it, nothing really got rid of them being cannon it was just an outlier situation

[strange folio]

Someone said that herra is a drapemite and mites are arachnids what do you guys think?

[vestal swan]

If the curse makes it difficult to have children it is a little strange there's a bunch of children running around, but it does not remove the possibility from existing

[stray fog]

Im sure they can come up with some logic to make them cannon

[vestal swan]

Nothing removed them from being Cannon though

They still fit the lore

[marble oasis]

what i find stranger than them having children is the fact that all those children look exactly like weavers, not hybrids like hornet

[misty stirrup]

weavers fertility problems

and that their bloodline "dilluted"

[vestal swan]

You can just blame that on retcon designs, they failed Herra too

[stray fog]

Are weaverlings confirmed to be full blooded weavers

[stray fog]

Widow also looks like a weaver and she's not a full weaver

[vestal swan]

Yes she is

[stray fog]

And hornet is the only other half weaver we see

[misty stirrup]

widow is "of the first, the last"

[stray fog]

Oh

[marble oasis]

it would be strange if they tried so hard to create an artificial child in pharloom and all they could do was eva, and then they just start popping out perfect copies in hallownest

[vestal swan]

Hornet is the only living descendant we see

[stray fog]

Yes so she could be an exception due to pale heritage or something

[misty stirrup]

Widow and Hornet are the last living weavers probably (discounting deepnest)

[vestal swan]

You see it's a bad retcon and that was just some Weaver's attempt to get around the curse, the other ones could have just kept trying

[marble oasis]

Hornet only ever refers to her as a Weaver, not a descendant

[stray fog]

But we know that shes a descendant

[vestal swan]

Deep nest had one that ran away and probably got killed, there could be a ton in hiding though

[marble oasis]

literally source

[stray fog]

Shes the pale king's daughter

[vestal swan]

She's half weaver her dad is a wyrm
That is the definition of descendant

[marble oasis]

i'm talking about widow

[stray fog]

Oh

[vestal swan]

Wha

[marble oasis]

on this

[stray fog]

I fr thought that widow was one of the weavers who got kidnapped and brought to the cradle

[vestal swan]

Cut doesn't really go here, can't be used as evidence

[marble oasis]

People think that she could be the weaver in quarter part because she was "staked to service" but Hornet only ever calls her a Weaver when talking about her to Shakra

[misty stirrup]

"the staked to service" can mean either A- they put the weaver to work or B- they found her put to "work"

[marble oasis]

plus the of the first, the last

although that line is odd to me considering all the other ones there are widow talking about gms, not herself

[vestal swan]

It suggests nothing because they can completely change it and make it so that the things that are cut do not fit the cannon so it doesn't matter

[frosty gate]

Hello, what's the topic?

[viscid ridge]

Yeah it shows how her mask got split and how the needles were used to trap her silk

[vestal swan]

We can reach the conclusion that she was mutilated without this cut sprite sheet and it does nothing to further the idea

[viscid ridge]

Also i think in the future team cherry will add a pharlid that looks like this to address herrahs unique apearance

[marble oasis]

make her fatter

[misty stirrup]

herrah is on ozempic in skong tho

[marble oasis]

did i stutter

[viscid ridge]

Who are you, Pyrocynical? 🤣

[misty stirrup]

my apologies, I wasn't familiar with your game

[marble oasis]

actually

did gms just leave all the male pharlids or did she turn them into weavers too

[vestal swan]

Nothing suggests she mutated males, just that all the ones that are known are female