sk-lore

[limpid summit]

Gurr’s daughter is not Gilly where did this dumbass theory start

[sinful nimbus]

Proof?

[limpid summit]

Gurr has no daughter but he soon will have many as the new Skarr King

[lapis creek]

i think the implication of lace's dialogue in the abyss is that if she hadn't intervened gms would have been able to escape with hornet's strength

[vestal swan]

I'm going to say star started because I can't remember who did it and she's here to take the blame

[sinful nimbus]

Thanks cuh

[lapis creek]

which is a big oversight on hornet's part

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah exactly. Lace seemed pretty self destructive and i dont think either of them anticipated GMS being willing to bring down the entire kingdom to save her daughter

[fathom hill]

It could be, though both would have been swallowed most likely anyways

[wintry flame]

doesn't he just die outright

[limpid summit]

He ain’t dead

[vestal swan]

Only one of the multicolor ants doesn't die, and that's the boomerang kid

[limpid summit]

He doesn’t leave a corpse and TC updated his attack patterns that means they have him in mind

[fathom hill]

but yeah neither Lace nor Hornet nor GMS could have anticipated all of these things, their actions though with heavy consequences still arent the sole fault of any of the three

[wintry flame]

oh fuck man

[fathom hill]

maybe gms of course but yknow

[sinful nimbus]

Skarrking Gurr

Tuff

[sterile jacinth]

I hope he shows up again that fight was a little disappointing but i like Gurr as a character a lot

[wintry flame]

do the multicolored ants even have a purpose are they sick with something

[sinful nimbus]

He even has a makeshift throne in his room

[vestal swan]

We do not need serial killer king gurr

[limpid summit]

They all seem to be outcasts

[sinful nimbus]

He only hunts haunted or evil people

[wintry flame]

Dexter Morgurr

[limpid summit]

Maybe the mottle is like thought as a curse or something

[lapis creek]

but also reading this dialogue I don't think hornet is happy with how they went about it, and it seems like it was on her to figure out the specifics of the plan

[sinful nimbus]

Gurr didn't really do anything wrong

[sterile jacinth]

One of them says they’re not cursed so i dont think they’re sick

[limpid summit]

But that does give mottled ants more individuality

[lapis creek]

if she wanted it to work out better

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah they were deceptive via omission

[sterile jacinth]

My thought. The Skarr are racist /hj

[spark valve]

I mean is it a mystery why they didn't explain what exactly the snare would do within range of gms's silken sight

[vestal swan]

I personally think and want it to be an evolution starting within the ants, but the fact that 2/3 our passive and speak or try to speak to hornet could just be that they are exiles from the regular ants

[sinful nimbus]

What in the elden ring is this

[spark valve]

gee I wonder

[limpid summit]

I mean it’s like vitiligo and the Skarr are close minded

I dunno

[fathom hill]

of course hse isnt happy, they literally risked everything while she was in the center of everything

[sinful nimbus]

Her silken sight doesn't do anything lmao she still got trapped in the Citadel

[snow sonnet]

The needolin dialogue for the mottled skarr scout says the mark is no curse unless i'm mistaking you

[spark valve]

because they planned that in weavenests which are concealed

[limpid summit]

Well yeah he would say that

[fathom hill]

also she has some opinions on the void anyways, giving the foolish to tame void mentioned twice

[spark valve]

that's the whole point of the weavenests

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah that was my thought lol. They’re just being hateful pretty much

[spark valve]

shamans aren't in weavenests

[limpid summit]

Because it’s thought of as a curse but he’s like I’m not any different

[sinful nimbus]

OK but how did they snare her in the Citadel

[vestal swan]

They played her song

[limpid summit]

Wait does he?

[sinful nimbus]

Mfw the higher being who can magically sense silk falls for a trap made of silk

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah

[lapis creek]

what would gms have done differently if she knew the exact mechanism of action

[snow sonnet]

Needolin dialogue for mottled skarr scout

[limpid summit]

“We still hear it” hell yes Gurr

Keep them Skarr alive

[sinful nimbus]

They hear The Voice...

[spark valve]

what would hornet

[fathom hill]

is gurr dead or could he come back? some have said the body doesnt stay after the fight is done

[spark valve]

well hornet would've just not done anything because she sucks

[limpid summit]

The body doesn’t say

[sinful nimbus]

Ants carry bodies off

[limpid summit]

Crawfather is the same way

[sinful nimbus]

PK's corpse doesn't stay

[sterile jacinth]

They could both still be alive. I’d like a gurr rematch

[sinful nimbus]

Will we get a Gurr Crawfather and Pale King trio bossfight

[vestal swan]

We see from one of the silk cutscenes she had the weavers playing harps on the regular for amusement or some shit, so they all just secretly played spell during one of the regular, whatever you want to call it muse summons ?

[timber pond]

You could also say that the pale king fell to bugs because of the minds he gave them

[fathom hill]

his fight could have had more fun stuff on it

[sinful nimbus]

What?

[sterile jacinth]

I hope so

[spark valve]

you could say it but it would be utterly incoherent like that message is

[lapis creek]

if there's nothing that hornet would have done differently then she's whining to the shamans for literally no reason. which is possible i just think her dialogue implies that she would have liked to know more ahead of time

[vestal swan]

Bugs did not cause PK's downfall

[snow sonnet]

Fathers of Battle

[spark valve]

they assume she figured it out and it's not like she asks

[vestal swan]

I mean the moths technically did but the radiance was the real issue

[sterile jacinth]

I think she would have done something different had she known. They were being deceptive

[sinful nimbus]

Silksong DLC elaborates on the fatherhood theme instead...

[lapis creek]

also im interested in what gms would have done if she heard them talking about the void. cause they are not very secretive about the high-level plan, she knows she is about to get snared if she can't kill hornet

[spark valve]

ultimately probably nothing but she shamans didn't really have a way of knowing for certain that her knowing the plan couldn't cause problems and they've been hiding from her for a very long time so caution makes sense

[sterile jacinth]

How the hell was she supposed to know it was connected to void

They did not tell her that

[spark valve]

they say how

she knows they're snails

[sterile jacinth]

Yea but they still lied via omission

[spark valve]

Caretaker: Don't play daft. You should well know our family's fixations. Surely you had a hunch?
Bell Hermit: How else could we hope to trap one of your pale kin? Or see her consumed with such insatiable efficiency?
they didn't lie

[fathom hill]

i just think thats an excuse on their part, they dont say they thought she knew, they say "surely you had a hunch?" like the nerve

[timber pond]

Are you assuming thier fixation are void related?

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah they’re like well its your fault you didn’t know and hornet is like you didn’t tell me

[spark valve]

they say they thought she knew

this ain't that complicated gang

[limpid summit]

Technically from a meta standpoint it’s not like we’d assume they were going to do that either

Oh retsong retsong

[sinful nimbus]

[spark valve]

no they said it was void related

[sinful nimbus]

Crazy how they don't even explain it the dialogue just says "Yeah obviously you would know that idiot"

[sterile jacinth]

Imagine someone tells you to do something and you do it and it ends up causing a ton of destruction because they didn’t tell you everything

[fathom hill]

how are we still talking abt this though, how is Hornet not justified in being angry at the people that put her in senseless danger have not been for Lace she would have been swallowed too

[spark valve]

ok you don't konw what a lie is

[sterile jacinth]

I would be kinda mad too

[timber pond]

I thought the word fixation here just implies that they know spells and are obsessed with power over things like soul and void

[spark valve]

they assume she knows, their assumption is apparently incorrect, that does not make it a lie

[limpid summit]

She’s totally justified in being angry

[spark valve]

that isn't what a lie is

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah her anger feels justified to me

[limpid summit]

The snails just aren’t exactly to blame

[sinful nimbus]

Lace meddling is the issue

[limpid summit]

She should have booked it away from whatever powerful trap they were using anyway

[sinful nimbus]

Also again Hornet dying isn't a big deal

[sterile jacinth]

They hold part of the blame. Not the sole blame but they definitely hold some of it

[limpid summit]

Regardless of what she assumed it would be

[lapis creek]

I agree with this, I don't think I ever suggested that the shamans should have told her. I just think if you are Hornet and things can go catastrophically wrong with the plan in a way that you don't like (which is what happens), it's on you to at least try to figure out the specifics ahead of time in case there's something else you can do. By not doing this, Hornet is somewhat negligent and it makes sense why some characters would be upset with her.

[limpid summit]

Yeah fair

[whole marsh]

For what it’s worth, they didn’t anticipate GMS anchoring herself via threads throughout Pharloom, which would the let the void climb up and infect everything

[sterile jacinth]

I think they would have been fine if it had killed hornet and i think that makes hornets anger with them even more justified

[fathom hill]

Hornet would have died bro

[sinful nimbus]

See my comment directly below that message

[spark valve]

hornet decided to go fight a god she's on board with risking her life yall

[sterile jacinth]

I think they both hold part of the blame

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah GMS grabbing Hornet was not planned lol

[fathom hill]

oh sorry i forgot it was you i was talking with mb

[sterile jacinth]

I dont think she anticipated the people helping her to be the ones that are completely fine with her death. That would piss anyone off

[spark valve]

they weren't fine with her death you just made that up

[sinful nimbus]

The plan wasn't for GMS to grab Hornet what

[spark valve]

the snare wans't made to kill her

[limpid summit]

They kill themselves to hell her

[sinful nimbus]

Why would they anticipate (much less want) that

[fathom hill]

This is true, but she does say that she wouldnt sacrifice herself or something so like

[sterile jacinth]

That’s true. That is only after their plan fucked up pharloom

[fathom hill]

Hornet would have anyways preferred to stay living, which the snail shamans probably didnt even consider

[sinful nimbus]

huh

[fathom hill]

wouldnt that mke them selfish assholes anyways or just unempathetic idk

[timber pond]

I think he just meant that they wouldn't care if hornet AND Gms died

[sinful nimbus]

The potential death is an accident why would they consider that

[sterile jacinth]

I dont think so. I think they have the greater good in mind which can be seen as callus (and thats probably how hornet saw it)

[fathom hill]

Not my place to say, but meddling with void is already a risky thing to do anyways

[spark valve]

people are just making up that they don't care if she survives there's no actual reason to think they're apathetic towards her dying

[fathom hill]

Hornet calls it foolish and im guessing it just is

[sterile jacinth]

Yes exactly. Which could be another reason hornet was pissed at them

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet is a moron

[fathom hill]

the snail shamans would be the kind of fuck with the demon core would it make an interesting reaction

[sinful nimbus]

The plan was solid

[sterile jacinth]

“Oh no our experimenting fucked things up who could have ever anticipated this”

[timber pond]

Well, I just kind of think they are apathetic towards everything and everyone given thier needolin diolouge lol

[lapis creek]

to be clear i think i agree with most of what tammo and star have been saying here

[fathom hill]

When she confronts them abt it they dont even care lmao they even justify themselves

[spark valve]

they do care

they literally give their lives fixing the problem

[opaque pier]

I mean she probably woulde rebelled against the void to save her own life instead

[spark valve]

she wouldn't that's pretty explicit

[fathom hill]

after being cornered by hornet they do, though thats a fair argument

[spark valve]

she can't force them to do the spell

[fathom hill]

them hiding away could be not cowardice but rather coping mechanism or something idk

[lapis creek]

i just think if hornet didn't like how it went in hindsight, it was her responsibility to try and figure things out beforehand, and it makes sense for some people to view her as responsible for the results

[timber pond]

They certainly need alot of convincing. Also Bell hermit litteraly does evrything he can to not care and calls everyone in the world slaves to diffrent gods lmao

[fathom hill]

or even shame though we do not have the means to know this

[sterile jacinth]

I think both parties hold some of the blame. Also the plan went a little skewed because of lace. I dont think either of them thought shed do that and also that gms would cling onto pharloom so hard to save her own daughter

[fathom hill]

Everyone has some of the blame I agree with

[spark valve]

they don't take convincing they all get in on the action basically immediately when hornet shows up to get the souls

[sterile jacinth]

Those can go hand in hand

[fathom hill]

but why are we trying to absolve the shamans of their part of it

[spark valve]

because they didn't really do anything wrong

[sterile jacinth]

Idk. I think they were deceptive. Or at the very least sneaky

[lapis creek]

i will concede they were sneaky

silken sight etc

[sterile jacinth]

I can see why that’d kinda piss hornet off

[spark valve]

it's almost like they've spent a really long time hiding from an evil god and the weavers and the conductors and literally everyone except hornet who they don't really deceive at all

[lapis creek]

again hornet built a superweapon without asking ANY questions

[sterile jacinth]

Desperation

[fathom hill]

They did withheld info and were reckless on their use of the void its my argument

obviously it all turned out fine but yknow

uranium can be used well too

[sterile jacinth]

Mine too. Im not saying they solely hold the blame im just saying they’re not entirely innocent

[fathom hill]

would it not be foolish to just fuck with it and not disclose that to the person in the middle of it?

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah lol. Go my test subject

[fathom hill]

or at least just an asshole move at the very least

[spark valve]

hornet demonstrates enough knowledge of their kind that they assume she understands what's going on

they're not deliberately withholding information

[abstract rivet]

atmosphere wise I prefer Silksong but theyre both just S tier at that

[sterile jacinth]

That’s their fault then. They should have explained

[sterile jacinth]

Agreed

[abstract rivet]

bilewater atmosphere is too good

[timber pond]

I don't know, I think besides the results of this spell, they are merchants of power through and through. They just want to see the outcome of the spell, hornet even eludes to how it might be "less exciting" for them if grandmother silk is gone, presumably because she is a well of power for them to draw on. Not saying they cant do "good things" but they are outcast witches and warlocks for a reason, they deal in power that always has consequences.

[fathom hill]

also theres the fact that snail shamans arent really synonym with void

just grand power in general

[sterile jacinth]

Unironically agree

[fathom hill]

so like maybe she came to the realization that they were snails, not really they were gonna use a void portal thing

[spark valve]

the specific task at hand and their interest in power lead them to void and they assume hornet made the same conclusion

[fathom hill]

how would hornet know this though

[spark valve]

they aren't deceiving her hornet just doesn't ask

[spark valve]

this is how they say how

Caretaker: Don't play daft. You should well know our family's fixations. Surely you had a hunch?
Bell Hermit: How else could we hope to trap one of your pale kin? Or see her consumed with such insatiable efficiency?

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah that’s my thought. She knew it would probably be like dealing with soul or maybe void but she didn’t anticipate that. They didn’t tell her and that’s on them

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah they’re putting the blame on not telling her on her. Kinda a dick move lol

[spark valve]

it is on her

[sterile jacinth]

Not entirely

[spark valve]

they assume she understood what was going on, if she didn't she should have asked

[sterile jacinth]

They assumed and they were wrong. They should have told her

[teal drift]

Me asking a bunch of satanists to help me kill god and then getting angry when they summon satan

[spark valve]

whoever could have seen that coming surely the satanists are lying

[teal drift]

Like girl thats what you hired them to do

[fathom hill]

thats a fair comparison honestly

[timber pond]

Look its Luqid regret. Also its kind of like calling pagans Satanists lol.

[teal drift]

I think hornet just thought the snare would be all soul but forgor about the fact that only void seems to be the number 1 god killer

[sterile jacinth]

If telling her would stop her from doing it then it makes sense why they wouldn’t tell her lol. They need it done

[spark valve]

they have no reason to think it would stop her doing it

they think that's what she's asking for

[fathom hill]

maybe she assumed the snails wouldnt be that dumb to actually try to use the void

ig she was wrong

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah this lol

[fathom hill]

but tbf to the snails it did work eventually

[sterile jacinth]

True it did

They didn’t anticipate it going awry but it did

[abstract rivet]

Stupid lace saved us

[sterile jacinth]

I think them sacrificing themselves helps their case

[abstract rivet]

My goat lace thank you gang

[fathom hill]

i like lace, shes cool

[abstract rivet]

it was a few hours of side quest but we saved ourself and the kingdom

at the cost of garmond but screw garmond

[timber pond]

They are more like Pagans because they don't strictly worship the void and just draw on power from any god or source of it lol. The tablet in the chappel seems like some kind of spell related to father of the flame if you read some of thier enemy entries and look at what the spell in the chappel says.

[abstract rivet]

That crazy old hag had to be put to sleep eventually

[sterile jacinth]

Poor Garamond…

[whole marsh]

For what it’s worth, she didnt see TK fight Rad, since it happens in a dream. So she probably didn’t know that the void literally consumed/snuffed her out. Plus, void was weaponized very differently in Hallownest compared to what the snails did

[abstract rivet]

garmond is mosty a nothing burger character

[timber pond]

This slander will not stand. Don Quixote but bug is my goat

[fathom hill]

nah garmond is fine

[sterile jacinth]

Not Garamond slander

[abstract rivet]

I dont see him as the new quirrel i just see him as a crazy villager who still thinks they're powerful

[fathom hill]

ia ctually skipped his normal non voided battle and recently fought him properly

it was such a dissapointment

[timber pond]

He is the diagetic oposite of zote tho

[sterile jacinth]

Leave my man and his unachievable noble goal alone

[fathom hill]

i still like him though hes fun

[spark valve]

she does know that she orchestrates the knight getting void heart specifically for that reason

[fathom hill]

or well, was fun

[sterile jacinth]

The fight just reinforces how doomed he is :(

So full of hope and nobility only to have it snuffed out </3

[timber pond]

Think about it they are both chracters with delusions of grandeur but gramond is positive about it by helping others ,lives in reality and does physical work.

[abstract rivet]

I only feel bad about Zaza

[sterile jacinth]

Zote is also a dick lmao

[abstract rivet]

poor bug

Zote is a dick but a cool freak you know he was charming in his own way even Garmond doesnt have that

[fathom hill]

never thought of it like that, thats a fun comparison

[sterile jacinth]

Garamond is genuinely a noble and nice person

[fathom hill]

he is kind of like good zote

[sterile jacinth]

He’s what zote thinks he is

[abstract rivet]

Atleast zote had like 57 precepts what does Garmond have

[timber pond]

If you think about silksong, they litteraly just did "Hollow Knight oposite day" as the design goal

[timber pond]

Garmond don't need them

[sterile jacinth]

A genuine want to help people

[timber pond]

He's too chad

[abstract rivet]

Zote is goated hes the ultimate cool freak garmonds some random villager

[fathom hill]

Yeah i picked up on it it just never crossed my mind that zote and garmond could be connected like that

it makes some sense

[timber pond]

Nuu and Hunter?

[sterile jacinth]

Who took up arms despite how outmatched he is. He is noble if foolish

[timber pond]

Both oposites

[eternal gazelle]

Zote's overestimation of himself is a comedy routine, Garmond's overestimation of himself is a tragic character flaw

[fathom hill]

Seth and quirrel have opposite journies

[abstract rivet]

Thats not brave or anything thats just crazy

[timber pond]

Yep and cornifer is a coward while shakra dosent give any shits lol

[sterile jacinth]

I know. That’s the tragedy of his character. He’s still fighting despite how outmatched he is

[abstract rivet]

yeah if they gave us more dialogue for garmond maybe but hes mostly nothing burger other than fighting few bosses and gauntlets

[fathom hill]

is he a coward?

only thing i can remember is deepnest

[timber pond]

Xornifer has no particular goal in mind while shakra has a very specefic one ect.

[abstract rivet]

Cornifer ain't a coward he is just smart atleast he is self aware he'd get fucked

[eternal gazelle]

Garmond is legitimately strong, but he doesn't have boundless strength and refuses to give himself the rest he needs

[timber pond]

He typicaly is in places where dangerous bugs cannot reach him

[fathom hill]

I belive like half that Shakra is just tc trying to put iselda n te game but being shy abt it

[timber pond]

Yeah he's Don Quixote

[fathom hill]

so they changed her a bit

[fathom hill]

Oh right, i mean hes no fighter tbf, does he even have a weapon

[abstract rivet]

If Garmond gave us something and we did a quest together and he contributed to atleast an important mission THEN thats where we could compare him to Quirrel

[eternal gazelle]

He died from giving too many fucks

[timber pond]

No.

[fathom hill]

shakra is like a full on warrior that also is a cartographer

[abstract rivet]

Shakra is a warrior cornifer is a fattie but smart guy

cornifer is like the average dad

[fathom hill]

for cornifer being a cartographer is just his thing

[abstract rivet]

Idk how his ass pulled a baddie like Iselda

[timber pond]

He can help you in the High Halls Gauntlet if you help him fight bugs throughout the citadel

[abstract rivet]

barely to be honest

[fathom hill]

personality matters

[timber pond]

Bro fights in the same way he did moorwing😭 at least the man helps

[fathom hill]

i believe this a bit more since i saw that tc apparently had plans for Iselda? since they said she would be stretching her legs soon or something?

so shakra must be in some capacity iselda but (..) yknow

[abstract rivet]

Quirrel made Uumuu's armor break temporarily atleast so we could attack uumuu Garmond is random bullshit go

to be fair they are very similiar in some ways, etc how we spend last moments with them

[fathom hill]

some place in development she kind of become the shakra we know today

[abstract rivet]

I just WISH garmond had more dialogue but not nothing burger dialogue just important shit

[fathom hill]

garmond tends to aura farm in the middle of battle

[timber pond]

Again im pretty sure garmond is a Zote equivalent while Seth is a Quirrel equivalent

[abstract rivet]

How the fuck is seth quirrel

[timber pond]

He's the oposite of squirrel and that's the point

[abstract rivet]

Garmond is a comedic relief kinda yeah if you mean in that way

[timber pond]

Im saying the chracters in silksong are the oposites of hollow.knight chracters

[abstract rivet]

I dont think seth is directed to be a 'equivalent' of any character he just does his own thing, Garmond the same

[lament gate]

i think like comparing the old hearts to the dreamers? (seth being involved in the pollen heart, quirrel being involved with monomon)

[abstract rivet]

yeah but seth blocks us doesnt help

[fathom hill]

both served one of the big three of their games, both lose their memories, both have this kind of gentle wandering personality and you can kind of see seth in multiple part before he goes to fleatopia

[abstract rivet]

oh yea thats fair when you put it that way

[timber pond]

Quirrel starts the story as a wanderer who knows nothing ,then comes to know everything and dies alone.

Seth starts as a jaded gaurdian who knows everything, then wakes up as a nobody wanderer who wanders around until he is surrounded by friends

[fathom hill]

though their stories are opposites since seth loses his memories at the loss of the mask and is reborn

quirrel just dies

[abstract rivet]

I still want answers to this question: How does Hornet communicate to a self aware uncorrupted Lace while Lace's been already corrupted?

Team Cherry please make some shit like Seal of Binding up for ts this is just borderline blackmagic

[fathom hill]

some have said it could be the same way Phantom can have the mist ladies project out of the organ

[abstract rivet]

Silksong desperately needs some lore fixes the same way HK had it

[fathom hill]

though we really dunno why Lace could just do that since Hornet doesnt bring it up ever

[timber pond]

If void is a manifestation of regrets, then perhaps it is a uniqe ability that can be used by those who harness it to a degree. (So only lace right now before she gets eaten entirely lol)

[abstract rivet]

yeah we can only make speculations about it atm

[timber pond]

It litteraly is black magic lol

[lament gate]

like a sort of shade?

[fathom hill]

I think Lace's body is the only thing corrupted cuz gms is protecting her mind somehow, maybe by astral projecting it on the surface of the void

[timber pond]

The void is actually black magic

[fathom hill]

But we really dont know

[timber pond]

Yes. Because we know the Ancient civilization strived to become "shades". So perhaps this is something they could do?

[fathom hill]

I mean of course Lace's presence in the abyss is mostly an illusion, so maybe is the silk around it making it that form? but then why would it not be made by black threads since the haunting has changed by that point?

idk that tidbit is weird as shit

also theres the thing abt how hornet is just imagining it which just doesnt make sense to me

and would be shit if it was the canon explanation too

lace already has like three instances with unique dialogue that could make us know who she is and taking one of these away

[timber pond]

Nah its the last vestiges of laces "Self" I think if that makes sense

[fathom hill]

for such an important character doesnt sit well with me

[timber pond]

I wonder who The Demiurge of this universe is. Either has to be the Shade Lord or whoever creates PaleBeings.

[lament gate]

btw i've kinda wondered if mementos are a similar thing to charms, iirc salubra's explanation of charms as often manifestations of a bug's dying wish seems to fit with the grey memento, old hearts, and the surface memento if its from the bug who's memory you see in the nameless town

[silk dirge]

you ever get a really cool idea how to involve void properly into silksong but then realize it would require an insane amount of making up lore for the ancient civilization

thats me

[timber pond]

Steel City seems involved with Ancient civilization if the masters Know what shades are (which is implied they do)

[spark valve]

mementos seem to just be that, mementos

[timber pond]

And they aren't really involved in this game

[spark valve]

if anything's like charms it's some of the blue and yellow tools

[silk dirge]

memory crystal is very charm like imo

[spark valve]

longclaw, pin badge, warding and magma bells, etc

[silk dirge]

egg of flealia(most useless tool in the game award)

actually wait nah spider strings exists

[spark valve]

spider strings uuuuh
is an alternative to the pause button which doesn't cost a slot or silk

[timber pond]

Incorrect if you are a steel soul gamer

You get the shards bucket which is chad

My tools cost NOTHING

[silk dirge]

spider strings is a yellow tool

so i mean its not like it has much competition

but it still manages to be useless

[sinful nimbus]

Needolin worst ability

[lament gate]

true, blue and yellow tools are like charms gameplay-wise but i was more referring to like are mementos and charms formed in similar ways, also i think spider strings extends range so i used it in the mist but i genuinely dont know if it actually worked

[timber pond]

Again steel soul gamer, instead of purse you get shards bucket which is the best thing ever

[sinful nimbus]

Dreamnail actually added to the gameplay AND lore

[silk dirge]

that is not what spider strings is

spider strings extends your needolins range

[spark valve]

mementos aren't really generally magical talismans like charms are but some tools fit the bill

[solid cypress]

Act 4: Return To Hallownest

[timber pond]

I thought he said purse instead of pause lol

[sinful nimbus]

When I saw "Act 1: Pharloom" I genuinely thought this might happen and was about to lose it

[timber pond]

Nah It would be Steel city brother

[silk dirge]

same

[spark valve]

mementos are assorted trinkets hornet collects they don't like do anything magical (though some have like cultural significance such as the craw one which absolves hornet of crimes)

[solid cypress]

Hollow Knight: Steel City (2033)

[timber pond]

Or that

[sinful nimbus]

Why can the court absolve individuals of crimes for all eternity

[spark valve]

I was too busy laughing because of the e33 ass screen

[silk dirge]

but act 2 being citadel was not surprising

[sinful nimbus]

What did TC mean by this

[spark valve]

for the craws

[silk dirge]

it means craws are corrupt unfortunately

cant have any non corrupt court in this game damn

[sinful nimbus]

Acts are so silly

At least give a poem or something

[silk dirge]

i like them

hype moments and aura

ACT 2
CITADEL OF SONG

[sinful nimbus]

Its not as hype moments and aura as the tablet before The Marrow title drop

Same with the Blasted Steps

[timber pond]

ACT 2
HOMELESS CHIMNEY SCRUBBING

[solid cypress]

Act 4 will finally give us answers on THK's current state, feature a warm family reunion between Hornet, White Lady and THK, while Lace slowly becomes a part of the family.

[silk dirge]

nah the act 2 starting cutscene has insane aura

[sinful nimbus]

Image unrelated?

[silk dirge]

its one of my favorite cutscenes for sure

[timber pond]

Its called a reaction image I guess

[spark valve]

the act 2 opening is really good having you start in the dead citadel is haunting

[solid cypress]

Picture of me thinking about Act 4

[silk dirge]

say that again

[spark valve]

ba dum ts

[lament gate]

act 4: memoir

[sinful nimbus]

Then puppetmaster hb is confirmed

[solid cypress]

Return To Hallownest

[timber pond]

Actually good name

Could be anything

[spark valve]

puppetmaster was always going to happen I just hoped it would be subverted a bit

[solid cypress]

Act 4: Daughter of Hallownest

[sinful nimbus]

[timber pond]

Would make sense because that is the Demiurge in Mythos lol

[silk dirge]

act 5 fayforn goes to celeste mountain

[abstract rivet]

Can Team Cherry tease something expansion so we make up insane lore predictions and just silksanity 2.0

[silk dirge]

i am not ready for silksanity part 2

[abstract rivet]

Silksanity was too fun

[silk dirge]

even though its definitely happening

[abstract rivet]

Silksong lasts 100-200 hours for all achievements playthrough Silksanity lasted for years

[silk dirge]

ill probably have a full time job to distract me by the time we get there tho

[solid cypress]

They said the DLCs would be as hype as the game's release

[abstract rivet]

yeah its very ambitious

[timber pond]

Yaldabaoth confirmed for DLC

[silk dirge]

they are working on dlc as we speak probably

[abstract rivet]

If they announce City of Steel this channels gonna lose it with theories

[sinful nimbus]

DLC is not that tuff

[timber pond]

They said that to a dude at pax

[abstract rivet]

nah they’re working on patches

[silk dirge]

yeah thats what im basing it off of

[spark valve]

they could add the stuff that's flagrantly missing at least

[timber pond]

The Chinese localization patch is aprently the last hotfix before dlc

[solid cypress]

Hallownest DLC

[silk dirge]

team cherry is probably losing their shit at the chinese translation team tbh

how do you mess up that bad

[abstract rivet]

This last patch they’ve been trying to release is taking long, its probably cus of public beta testing but I wonder what balancing patches we’ll get

[sinful nimbus]

Which isn't tuff

[polar fiber]

what even is steel city

[solid cypress]

silksong sequel, 2033

[sinful nimbus]

TC is covering new ground by rushing a game in 7 years instead of 2

[abstract rivet]

They’re using a fan translation now and they stated the feedback for it was well recieved

[spark valve]

the place one of the weavers was captured

[silk dirge]

i can get you know the original chinese translation being bad but how tf was the 2nd one worse

[timber pond]

Mentioned in the cradle as a location. Might be implied to be connected to the Steel Soul chracters is the most off the cuff explanation I could give

[silk dirge]

i mean i cant speak chinese so i cant comment but how

[abstract rivet]

Is this the way you show love for Silksong, hating on the game frfr

Wow passionate hollow knight fans these days

[spark valve]

(it was a joke)

[polar fiber]

k thx

[abstract rivet]

i know lol

[timber pond]

Nah she's a pure hater

[silk dirge]

if i was goated id fully learn hebrew, yiddish, and ladino just to make silksong translations

[sinful nimbus]

tough love

[silk dirge]

dont ask what the purpose of a yiddish or ladino translation would be

[abstract rivet]

The old translation was like

[sinful nimbus]

That's not a joke though this game is rushed

[abstract rivet]

act 3 feels rushed in some ways but not that big of a deal but still a big of a deal but not that big of a deal

[silk dirge]

maybe some hasidic dude wants to hop on skong idk im not judging

[solid cypress]

Yeah, they said they threw it out there because they're scared if they continue, the game will never be released

[spark valve]

act 3 seems to be the victim of some rewriting

[spark valve]

so long as it's not on saturday

[silk dirge]

yeah

[timber pond]

Because they were enjoying making it lol. Missing some context there man.

[sinful nimbus]

Mfs acting like they were 90 and on their deathbed

This isn't winds of winter

[spark valve]

verdania is good but the seth rewrites leave him kind of making no sense. Khann and karm eh it's unfortunate but whatever it's at least not inconsistent with verdania

[silk dirge]

i think if silksong did take even more time it would be fine if they changed up communication strategy

[timber pond]

I feel like they were going to have 3 endings which included the cut ending. But then they realized none of the endings end up "good" for the chracters of pharloom so they added act 3 lol. Which is a good thing IMO. I wouldn't want weaver Queen to be the "true" ending

[silk dirge]

i think the issue is tc revealed too much too early

[solid cypress]

TC during production

[silk dirge]

i dont want to get into communication discussions but i think they definitely shouldve revealed less initially so they would have content that wouldnt be as spoilery to reveal more consistently

[abstract rivet]

this isnt entirely correct its just slandering but the old chinese translation was like
“I hate this game” “Thou show great loathe for thine game”

Very archaic and broken grammar

[silk dirge]

shakespeare be like

[abstract rivet]

Atleast shakespeare had fucking proper grammar lmao

[timber pond]

Seth is fine IMO because it allows him to continue to exist in the world. Which is a good thing from a meta perspective at least.

[sinful nimbus]

wtf chinese translation is based???

[abstract rivet]

The translator was horrible at its job and used AI appearently

[sinful nimbus]

Seth doesn't coherently exist in the world unfortunately

[abstract rivet]

though its noted that this would be difficult for Team Cherry to track

[abstract rivet]

what is up with Verdania can you show explanation

[silk dirge]

yeah its hard for tc to track any translation even the english one they can only speak the mythical language of australian

[timber pond]

Well yeah, he was designed by a damn sick kid and not team cherry.

He's fine as is

[spark valve]

wdym what's up with verdania, it does a decent job of showing the faded memory angle being a bit surreal

[abstract rivet]

There’s translation errors in other languages too its just to a point its not really inconsistent and is just mild unnoticable errors

[bitter coral]

Chat why exactly was hornet captured

[silk dirge]

green prince

[spark valve]

gms wants her silk

[bitter coral]

Gms is asleep tho?

[abstract rivet]

whats up with Seth tho i didnt encounter him at greymoor idfk what he says

[solid cypress]

half-asleep

[sinful nimbus]

AFAIK Seth's concept didn't come with a specific story so this isn't really a reasonable thing to say

[abstract rivet]

what makes no sense about him

[spark valve]

she's asleep but still controlling things via the haunting, the game is the processof her waking up

[timber pond]

Silk power. Like spice from dune.

[sinful nimbus]

For context Seth had drastically different lore in development

[abstract rivet]

GMS needs Silk lowkey

[bitter coral]

So she mind controlled some bugs to capture her?

[abstract rivet]

But i dont fucking know why she wants a driplet of water to be added to an ocean

[solid cypress]

ya

[spark valve]

apparently the citadel built a shrine to worship nyleth and sent choir bugs to do that and also appointed a guardian to murder everyone who goes there no matter what
victim of a rewrite since the riddle stuff for seth teased a different role guarding a secret and chosen by a mysterious Voice

[timber pond]

I thought you meant design wise not story wise. It also isn't really explained why Seth is an immortal guardian. I assume nyleth placed some kind of spell on him and the spell is broken by hornet.

[bitter coral]

Well how the hell did hornet get captured couldn't she js fight them?

[spark valve]

they used a rune cage

[abstract rivet]

why is Seth killing people

[solid cypress]

I assume she wants to absorb Hornet, like how Hornet absorbs other Weavers, in order to fully awaken. We see in one of the crapped ending when GMS successfully absorbs Hornet and returns to being the monarch of Pharloom.

[sinful nimbus]

And to clarify I think its a sweet tribute and the boss is fun I'm just critiquing the story divorced from his out of universe context

[bitter coral]

Whats a rune cage

[spark valve]

Because that's what he does

my criticism is that there's no actual reason for it in the final draft

[abstract rivet]

oof

[spark valve]

they're the cages with the magic seals on them that weaken hornet, you see one in the intro and that's how the slab can capture her

[abstract rivet]

does it weaken them to a point where the entity cannot move

[timber pond]

Equivalent to what Seal of binding from the first game does to the hollow knight in the black egg

[eternal gazelle]

I do think there's intention behind this decision, considering he also forgets what his obligation was

[abstract rivet]

To think Hornet would be food if some randomass silkfly didnt say i gotchu

[spark valve]

it's inconsistent, the one the choir uses and the one the slab uses have different effects

[bitter coral]

Ohh. So hornet was chillin in hallownest and then suddenly got captured and put in to a rune cage?

[eternal gazelle]

She got overwhelmed by numbers

[spark valve]

she killed a few attempted captors

[timber pond]

Its for the Quirrel parallel I m pretty sure.

[spark valve]

they sent a full chamber and only like four are coming back so she probably killed a few dozen

[abstract rivet]

Are we sure The Slab cages do weaken things?It’s just a very narrow cage so the people in it cannot move

[spark valve]

a chamber choir is 8-40 singers

[silk dirge]

i think probably the choir one was stronger

[spark valve]

it does knock her out when you first get caught

[spark valve]

probably

[timber pond]

Mabye not in hallownest but probably somewhere around it yeah

[eternal gazelle]

It drains all your silk before you pass out

[lament gate]

it shows a seal of binding and iirc drains your silk if you get caught

[eternal gazelle]

Not a seal of binding, undefined runes

[abstract rivet]

didnt know Hornets biggest weakness was cages

[silk dirge]

i mean the cages are runed probably by gms

[bitter coral]

Why not hallownest?

[spark valve]

choir ones might also be leftovers from weaver days

[timber pond]

Seal of binding and rune cage are somewhat similar, seal of binding is probably far more advanced though

[timber pond]

Well we just don't know how much time has passed inbetween games

[silk dirge]

what would they be used for in weaver days since i dont think the slab has many of the big ones

ik theyre citadel make bc of the symbols

[spark valve]

fs, widow

[silk dirge]

oh yeah that would make sense

[abstract rivet]

could the Everbloom repel the cage’s special effects?

[spark valve]

rogue weavers were a thing that did happen

[bitter coral]

Oh makes sense, also what ending of hk is canon

[spark valve]

it's ambiguous between dnm and etv

[abstract rivet]

theres two candidates

[spark valve]

cages aren't void so probably not

[bitter coral]

So we don't really know which one?

Thats interesting

[timber pond]

It either has to be Dream No more Or Embrace Yhe Void. I Personaly lean towards Embrace the void for specefic reasons.

[silk dirge]

i wonder how the envoys reacted when hornet broke out

[toxic mulch]

Could it not be the other godhome ending?

[spark valve]

idk if they had enough time before hitting the ground to process much

[lament gate]

bugs like the old penitent likely wouldn't fit in the thin cages as well

[timber pond]

Both godhome endings are Embrace the void not much changes between the two if either are true tbh, mabye some minor details.

[toxic mulch]

Ah

My thought is the flower ending makes a bit more sense

[spark valve]

there's not really a substantial difference between them anyways

[toxic mulch]

[abstract rivet]

I lean more towards Dream No More since it gives a sense of finality but then Silksong is announced so screw finality but I would argue TC wouldn’t lock hollow knights true ending behind a very hard challenge other than a epic 1v1 with Radiance (well Godhome ending also had that its js that its a bossrush yk)

[timber pond]

The only diffrence would be: Lord Of shades gets teleported to the abyss. Or he just goes back to the abyss like the Shades in Dream No more lol

[toxic mulch]

The only one we know for a FACT is true is Mr Mushroom

[solid cypress]

Major one is THK. I want THK to reappear. There was no appearance of THK Shade in True Ending... THK is in Hallownest, alive and well. Act 4: Return to Hallownest

[toxic mulch]

It would be neat to have more memories of hallownest

But we don't need to reexplore the entire map

[timber pond]

Nah i would personally want The Steel city to take possession of him instead. Would be a more interesting plot

[lament gate]

im not sure what role returning to present hallownest would play as a game

[abstract rivet]

Why are you guys so desperate for THK content It would just be pointless

[solid cypress]

How about him noticing Hornet's disappearance and rushing to Pharloom to rescue her? 😍

[toxic mulch]

THKs story is over not much to do with them anymore tbh

[lament gate]

could be a neat comic to see what hallownest is like post-silksong if team cherry goes back to the hk comics idea

[abstract rivet]

THK is a old thing let it go vro

Focus on Silksong

[timber pond]

Simple. It is unresolved. They made a cliffhanger ending and did not resolve it for a very important chracter.

[toxic mulch]

I'd love more comics

[abstract rivet]

If its just a comic yeah hell yeah but a whole DLC/Content Package/Game? No

[timber pond]

What purpose does a vessel that still wanders the world have when all is dead and gone? Coming to terms with his purpose is what the hollow knight must do if he still lives. Steel city is also right there as a kingdom left unresolved....

[solid cypress]

Taking care of his mother

[timber pond]

I doubt he would care

[abstract rivet]

Just end THK’s story with like few pages of a comic not a whole dlc/game/content update idk

[solid cypress]

WDYM THK wouldn't care

[abstract rivet]

also “he”?

[toxic mulch]

City of steel will have nothing to do with thk,they're 100% saving city of steel for a large scale dlc

[solid cypress]

Are we deadass still believing vessels are hollow

[abstract rivet]

I doubt THK would give two shits about their mother

[toxic mulch]

The whole point of the first game is that vessels were never hollow to begin with

[abstract rivet]

The White Lady refers to their “children” as “it” and dont think themself as real bugs really, Hornet had a better connection to White Lady than any vessel

[bronze turret]

Ok I just need you guys to know a Knight mod was finally released

[lament gate]

while the pale king instilled an idea by caring for the hollow knight, it didnt have a connection with the pale lady afaik

[solid cypress]

THK taking care of White Lady in her Alzheimer's days

[timber pond]

I would argue The Hollow Knight is as much of a chracter as hornet with allt of potential.
I would have been fine if they left him untouched with no cliffhanger. But team cherry left him on a cliffhanger for an important reason. I just want to know what that reason is.

[lament gate]

oh yeah i've been playing that, its pretty cool but the jitter when moving vertically is a bit headache inducing

[toxic mulch]

I'm surprised by how fast the community got the knight in silksong lol

[toxic mulch]

The white lady is losing her eyesight not her memories

[bronze turret]

Maybe that jitter is attached to the game's main jitter effect? There's an option to disable it

[abstract rivet]

They’re just some stupid vessel that failed its purpose and that got out of being rotted eternally, I doubt THK would do something theyd just return to the Abyss and rest

did a horrible grammar mistake oopsie

[timber pond]

From a meta perspective ,there would be no reason for team cherry to end the game on an upward Criscendo of the hollow knight getting ready for action if that was thier intent. It just dosent make any sense from storytelling standpoint. If they wanted THK to rest, they didn't even need to make the godhome ending at all.

[abstract rivet]

Maybe hornet just fucking killed them or something

[timber pond]

Also any other kingdom can be a call to action for him. And to resolve personal conflict.

[sinful nimbus]

Team Cherry are bad writers who haven't created anything cool since Dream No More. More news at 8

[timber pond]

They wouldn't leave it on such a. Cliffhanger if that were the real answer lol

[abstract rivet]

what kingdom bro the only place they know is Hallownest and they are a very slow moving mf Hornet is atleast good at exploration

[abstract rivet]

you never know with TC nowadays

[timber pond]

Its like saying "lol what if gaster Deltarune had nothing to do with anything"

[abstract rivet]

nah Hornet is a goated well written character therefore TC are the best writers in the world

[dry bridge]

wait. is that a statue of isamor in bonebottom???

[sinful nimbus]

We are bombarding you with dust pimpillos

[abstract rivet]

I love hunters journal and the hunter being Hornet cus we get so much info about personality

of her

[timber pond]

Steel city are obsessed with shades.

[sinful nimbus]

The personality in question "I like fluffy things and hate my dad and slaves"

[timber pond]

Or know about them to an extent

[abstract rivet]

err Steel City is prob an expansion for silksong gang

[abstract rivet]

shut up loser

[sinful nimbus]

💔

[abstract rivet]

Its goated and you know you like it

[bronze turret]

Hard to say, many bug species look the exact same.

[timber pond]

Depends on how they want to go about it. If it gets too big? Then you know what happens....

[abstract rivet]

oh the horror..

[silk dirge]

SILKSANITY 2 ELECTRIC BOOGALOO

steelsanity

[sinful nimbus]

What if they bring back #ss-discussion and make it Steel Soul discussion

[timber pond]

It would be interesting if hornet knows about the Steel city because at some point they took They hollow Knight away 🤔

[sinful nimbus]

I'd be happy

[dry bridge]

I went and installed the blackground blur mod to get a better look. Different garb, same sort of bug, I think!

[silk dirge]

looks like hes holding a bowl of rosaries?

[abstract rivet]

Hollow Knight: Steelworks

[silk dirge]

i sure hope it does

[timber pond]

Nah it would be Hollow Knight :Steel Soul let's be real

[past cypress]

Counterpoint: if we get a Steel City game then we'll have to wait longer for a Grimmchild game

[abstract rivet]

not happening

[timber pond]

Grim lives in fukin wonderland dawg lol

[abstract rivet]

let Silksong be the final chapter of Hollow Knight and maybe TC will make a new IP which would be just as exciting for me atleast

[sinful nimbus]

Grimm Grand Strategy game where you manage your scouts and compete with neighboring dead kingdom scavengers like the Steel City

[dry bridge]

if this is meant to be isamor, it could be that the bonebottom isamor is in just a pilgrim's garbs, while the version in the citadel is also wearing the white cloak that choir members get.

[abstract rivet]

unless they wanna make a hollow knight trilogy

[silk dirge]

nah i have the best idea an ancient civilization civ game

[timber pond]

Well the thing is, they don't seem like they want it to be the final chapter lol.

[past cypress]

There's wayyy too much lore left to expand on for a new IP to be better imo

[abstract rivet]

the dlcs are the final chapter youre right

[timber pond]

Like every sign points to them being "i want to do more of this"

[silk dirge]

when are we getting act 9 farewell

[timber pond]

We will see how they feel about it after the DLCS lmao

[abstract rivet]

I will be just as hyped as I was for Silksong if we got a new hollow knight game but its unlikely

playing it with my grand children would be nice tho

[timber pond]

I don't think its "unlikely" really. They haven't indicated otherwise.

[past cypress]

Lifeblood, Grimm Troupe, Steel City/Masters, whatever the fuck is up with Zote, etc.

[abstract rivet]

Grimm Troupe won't get a continuation because Pharloom is not a dead kingdom

[past cypress]

Hollow Knight has banger lore and you can make countless stories about it and tbh I hope they expand their mediums eventually. Give me a novel or another comic or some shit.

[abstract rivet]

and the troupe harvests dead kingdoms flames

[past cypress]

Doesn't have to be in Silksong

[silk dirge]

id watch a hk tv series

animated in ari's style

[abstract rivet]

who wouldnt

[silk dirge]

that shit would be so good

[dry bridge]

there are other pilgrim statues at the entrance to the marrow with the same cymbal/rosary dishes in the background of the entrance to the marrow, and those ones look like the more common pilgrim bugs. the one in bonebottom is distinctly the same body type as isamor

[abstract rivet]

Aris artstyle is in the top 10 best of all time

[timber pond]

This is a good point. Why the hell would they just keep making threads about shit if they wanted to wrap it up? Lol.

[silk dirge]

OH THATS WHAT THOSE ARE?

[past cypress]

I really really really want more about Zote because there's clearly more to him than "Haha funny joke/parody character"

[sterile jacinth]

Probably made when the citadel was more humble

[sterile jacinth]

Eeeeehhh mamniba

[dry bridge]

given the Standing isamor statue in bonebottom, while the one in the citadel is hidden away in the vaults definitely when the citadel was far more humble

[abstract rivet]

Theres a whole fucking fountain in the entrance of choral chambers that nobody even gives a fuck about yet it would take me 2 years of experience to draw, the amount of detail in this game is fucking insane

[lilac hedge]

he definetly has something to do with shellwood

[past cypress]

Honestly I'd kill for some sort of compendium of small stories tbh. Like a game consisting of a bunch of small stories about various side characters to expand on their lore. I'd easily give twenty bucks for that even if it's half the playtime of the original HK.

[sterile jacinth]

I redrew a screenshot from queens gardens and yeah it’s incredibly detailed but still manages to not overwhelm with detail and have a clear focal point. Very impressive stuff

[abstract rivet]

20 bucks for 1 hour of team cherry is more than worth it

[abstract rivet]

Just play the game with a unblurred background mod and check the choral chambers backgrounds HOLLY SHIT

[sterile jacinth]

I have a switch </3

[abstract rivet]

the amounts of detail they hidden behind 360p blur quality..

[sterile jacinth]

The absolute scale of the citadel was really well conveyed I think

It’s huge

[abstract rivet]

idk if theres

a lore explanation but the choral chambers sounds haunting

is that just me

[sterile jacinth]

I think that’s the whole lore explanation lollll

[silk dirge]

say that again

[lilac hedge]

choral is choir and chambers its what the place is

[abstract rivet]

I mean the OST of it my bad

[lilac hedge]

i guess

[sterile jacinth]

It’s hauntingly beautiful and kind of empty. It’s glory is marred by the atrocities the citadel has committed as well as only being populated by reanimated corpses

Sells the vibe beautifully

[abstract rivet]

the music of it sounds haunting

I just cant prove it

[lilac hedge]

its just harp and choir

[abstract rivet]

better than city of tears

[sterile jacinth]

They’ve got their vibes

I think it conveys the empty fallen glory aspect very well. For both places

[abstract rivet]

Idk i fw the vibe of medieval things and citadel is just a combination of steampunk and medieval

[sterile jacinth]

Choral chambers feels more sinister than city of tears melancholy

[sterile jacinth]

Ough same and the religious themes 🔥 🔥 🔥 absolutely grabbed my little neurodivergent brain

I didn’t introduce religion into my own story because I have some bias and don’t want to be too controversial with that but sk might convince me to add some in a different story

[lilac hedge]

verdania has the best theme for me

[sterile jacinth]

I get emotional when I think about it too hard

[abstract rivet]

Choral Chambers sounds so medieval and religious
Cogwork Core is steampunk vibes
High Halls is so aristocratic
Whiteward is spooky
Memorium is.. Memorium? It's kinda depressing
Whispering Vaults is also very medieval and religious

[lilac hedge]

what about songclave

[abstract rivet]

Love how citadel has their own vibes to each area for most part yet they're one area

[sterile jacinth]

Agreed. I don’t care for memorium as much which sucks

[grand star]

you mean the part around 1:06?

[sterile jacinth]

Quiet hopefulness I think

[abstract rivet]

hang on let me play that part rq

yeah that part exactly

[lilac hedge]

after listening for a while to choral chambers theme it feels a bit off tune on purpose

its like very little but i notice it a bit

[abstract rivet]

Its such a weird shift in the tone of the ost, maybe theres an artistic explanation but idk

[sterile jacinth]

I love it it’s like subtly off

[abstract rivet]

play 1:06 thats where I mean the ost is haunting

[sterile jacinth]

It adds like a slightly sinister feeling tone to it imo which fits the citadel very well

[timber pond]

Do you know what Gnosticism is?

[sterile jacinth]

Nope

[lilac hedge]

cogwork dancers music feels like fnaf a lot

[grand star]

it’s just to juxtapose the grandiosity and beauty of the citadel with how it’s currently full of haunted people that want to kill you

[sterile jacinth]

Yeessssss

[lament gate]

is that because you're thinking of how fnaf uses the sound of a toreador march music box as a recurring song?

[sterile jacinth]

It’s a waltz which fits the dancers well

[abstract rivet]

Bro I played all main fnaf games and how the fuck do you get this

[lilac hedge]

it just sounds familiar to me idk

and also im talking about the fanmade songs not the ones in the game which are mostly static

[sterile jacinth]

Wait it might not be a waltz… uh

[timber pond]

Well without getting too much into it since this is a silksong lore channel. Its the Og Christian myth that wasn't established by the Roman Council in 200 ad. It is covered by the Book Of Enoch and the Book of Thomas's. Its best to read the normal Bible first to understand it. But its origin story is extremely interesting and what allt of JRPGS and other videogames use as a basis for myhtos.

[sterile jacinth]

I’m not a music nerd

[lilac hedge]

i am tho

i know my harmony exercises quite well sometimes

[sterile jacinth]

Ooh interesting

Do you think the citadel worshiped more of an ideal or a being?

The idea of salvation through work?

[lilac hedge]

depends

are you talking about the choir people in general or

[sterile jacinth]

We know at one point the weavers were worshipped but we know that’s no longer the case

I guess the religion itself as a whole

[abstract rivet]

Ideal. There's no specific entity they worship, its the ideal of the song being played eternally

[lilac hedge]

and isnt sherma criticism to religion too

[timber pond]

I a kind of think the main antagonistic force of Hollow Knight could end up as a Paralel to The Demiurge. The main antagonistic force of gnosticism who is the "false god" so to speak. The one that cuases Floods and plagues. Yaldabaoth.

[sterile jacinth]

I want a theologist to look at silksong lol

[abstract rivet]

silksong explores the themes of religion and its really interesting

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah that is what I was thinking

[sterile jacinth]

He’s an exploration of the harms religion can cause and his own naive hope and blind faith (is what I got)

[timber pond]

I don't think religion itself is bad but can be warped.

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah I agree

[timber pond]

Thats the point of this story

[abstract rivet]

It can be used to justify bad acts which is what the Citadel does

[sterile jacinth]

So shade lord?

[lilac hedge]

either way what is the lore of putrified ducts its the only place i havent looked into

[sterile jacinth]

Absolutely. They use it as an excuse to work their devout to the bone

[abstract rivet]

But the issue is Citadels acts were already bad anyway, their whole religion was fake from the start

[timber pond]

Old Papyras texts of Christianity show another "War" so to speak and Orthodox Christianity won that war and erased the losers and called them "Heritics"

[abstract rivet]

last judge reminds me of christianity

[timber pond]

No whoever makes Pale beings/higher beings.

[sterile jacinth]

Aah I didn’t consider that

[light mauve]

I think they are just born like that

[lilac hedge]

It reminds me of that book where the people have to put their hearts in that eeight thing along with a feather and see if the heart is heavier which means they are not pure of sin

[timber pond]

Because the Demiurge, by parallel is the one who created our reality. Since he was born impure from Sophia the Aeon of Wisdom.

[lilac hedge]

Or smth i forgot

[sterile jacinth]

The followers belief makes it real. Not in a literal sense but in a sociological sense. Unfortunately for them they’re being tricked

[sterile jacinth]

This is Egyptian mythology

[lament gate]

tbh i dont think i ever considered the idea someone made higher beings, i thought that like they sort of formed from their domain or from nothing then created their domain

[timber pond]

Yes that's the point of the Demiurge. They were born and are the ruler of imperfect reality

[sterile jacinth]

Interesting

[lilac hedge]

Yeah i forgot it, and dont blasted steps kinda look like it

[sterile jacinth]

Hmm kinda. Idk judgement seems to be a pretty big reoccurring theme in a lot of religions I don’t think it’s meant to invoke one in particular

[spark valve]

mfw instruments of social control need a way to control people

[lilac hedge]

I mean look at grand gate its full oft those weight things which i forgot its name

[lament gate]

there isnt really anything egypt-specific in the blasted step's design from what i can tell, but someone might be able to point out some details that show clear inspiration

[timber pond]

Egyptian myth is entagled in other teachings because of thier uniqe position in history.

[sterile jacinth]

Scales 😅

[abstract rivet]

citadel was included in acts of lying to a big extent, colonization, genocide, deforesting the environment to a BIGGG extent, greed, etc, just for one god to stay sleeping at the cost of an entire kingdoms (or well the map of Pharloom isn't exactly a kingdom, its too disunified to be so, the areas that are ruled by The Citadel are 'Kingdom of Pharloom') population well being, I dont think they can get any much lower

[lilac hedge]

The frickin scales

[sterile jacinth]

Yes I know. Same with a lot of other religions. They borrow each others practices and beliefs a slot

[abstract rivet]

the entire kingdom of Pharloom is really small, I don't think the map we see at the game is the entirety of Pharloom as it si very disunited

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah I think it’s theoretically bigger but we are limited to what we’re allowed to see

[lilac hedge]

I mean going to nameless town gives you an idea of how much secret areas there might be

And ik its the surface but still

[sterile jacinth]

Not every question needs to be answered I think

[lament gate]

i'd probably say the kingdom of pharloom is just the citadel and bellhart-greymoor area honestly

[timber pond]

Well, only the ones convient to them. Like i said alot of religion is erased.
Think of Joni and lifeblood. She probably worshiped The lifeblood beast, but was erased/forgotten because it was not convenient for society at large. Same with radiance.

[abstract rivet]

shellwood, moss grotto, far fields, hunters march, sands of karak aren't really pharloom material

verdania too, bilewater etc

[lilac hedge]

It might be bigger but the areas might be lost like verdania or just covered

[abstract rivet]

Verdania is a whole kingdom on its own

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah that makes sense. Alongside the fact that lifeblood was declared taboo by pk. There were also other religions predating the citadel in Pharloom (like the ruined chapel)

[abstract rivet]

The Marrow probably too

Blasted Steps maybe

[lament gate]

wait probably the deep docks too

[sterile jacinth]

I’d argue that’s still the area of Pharloom but the territory of the citadel is the places you described

[lilac hedge]

Or realize that a lot of areas are useful for the kingdom or pharloom

[grand star]

the citadel would be the weavers’ kingdom

[lilac hedge]

Except fucking hunters march

[dry bridge]

deep docks is definitely a part of pharloom's core too

[grand star]

i’m pretty sure it’s just a big tower so to speak

running down the middle of pharloom

[timber pond]

Thats another Gnostic parallel, the roman Church bassicaly drove out the believers. Inevitably, due to the teachings just. Kind of being incompatible with what masses of humans desire. And the books of Thomas and Enoch and Judas were only found in clay urns in Egypt in the 40s

[abstract rivet]

the different atmosphere of every part in Hallownest kinda showed us how Pale King was good at ruling a place filled with individuality, the different atmosphere of every part of Pharloom shows how shit the citadel is at ruling or tryna handle areas with individuality

lmao

[timber pond]

Yep

[sterile jacinth]

“Oh you want to be independent? Too fuckin bad”

[timber pond]

Also shows that other pale beings are probably not kind

[abstract rivet]

but was it worth it? maybe, choral chambers was amazing, but do I wanna see those areas at their prime with a DLC? HELL YEAH

[lilac hedge]

What would be the point of it tho

[sterile jacinth]

It’s an exploration of greed and exploitation. Though what they made was beautiful it was done in the wake of corpses

[abstract rivet]

hard to say, a memory dlc would be super cool

[lament gate]

yeah, i wonder what greymoor looked like when it was a thriving area between verdania and wisp thicket, would probably look beautiful

[abstract rivet]

Kinda reminds me of alot of shit IRL

[sterile jacinth]

Pale king was flawed but he was a good ruler all things considered

[abstract rivet]

silksong is getting too real this is just a video game

[sterile jacinth]

Lmao yea

[abstract rivet]

silksong is truly a masterwork of art

a bit flawed to say the least but a masterpiece isnt flawless

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah I love it. Bothers me when people hate on it so much lol

Especially in the damn sk and hk discord server

Brother if you dislike it so much leave the damn server 😭

[timber pond]

Im just curious as to the Mythos team cherry is building. They are filling its gaps for some kind of end goal it seems.

[sterile jacinth]

With the city of steel and lifeblood being teased I’d love to get more

[dry bridge]

this is what I'd call Pharloom's territory, I think. by the time of the games, shellwood has kinda fallen out into a dangerous exclave in the kingdom. Probably better to shrink down how much of the marrow is considered part of parloom too, but this is more or less what feels right.

[muted lantern]

It does feel like this has become the complaining about silksong chat rather than the silksong lore chat,though I don't mind the rewrite discussions as it's at least a productive and creative endeavor, just wish it was its own thread as it's not really on topic for this chat imo

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah I agree

[abstract rivet]

the hate on the game in tiktok is insane

Its mostly ragebait whatever but holly shit

[sterile jacinth]

Let me enjoy the game in peace gng </3

[muted lantern]

Your first mistake was using tiktok

[sterile jacinth]

One of the many reasons I’m off of tik tok

[abstract rivet]

youtube is filled with more joy than tiktok ever will have

but tiktok kinda funny at times

anyways i dont wanna get too offtopic

[muted lantern]

YouTube shorts is a rancid poison that kills me slowly

[sterile jacinth]

Tik tok is such an emotional rollercoaster. Yt feels more stable lmao

But yea I love this game and its lore and that’s why I’m here. I’m not here to complain about it

[abstract rivet]

Youtube is either filled 8 year olds or 40 year olds pretty much

[lament gate]

if a name for the higher being of lifeblood is ever given i think it'll likely be plasma, but i doubt lifeblood will get like it's own dlc

[abstract rivet]

Please no lifeblood dlc

Its just cocaine

[lament gate]

the enemies with regen are pretty annoying to fight too

[sterile jacinth]

I don’t want to fight the reanimated corpses of the bone bottom bugs </3

[lilac hedge]

why sinners road tho

[sterile jacinth]

That’s where they make the food

[lilac hedge]

culinary crimes too but i guess

[sterile jacinth]

Yea the main food source is muckroaches

[lament gate]

the bugs of sinner's road and the architecture bears resemblance to greymoor i think

[timber pond]

I think lifeblood might be connected to Pharloom Bay DLC. Cause that's where Zylotol suggests he got the stuff from lol. Also Weavnest murglin has the Bays assets at the end of it

[muted lantern]

I think there's stuff worth critiquing however it's the fact that the same things are brought up over an over again that's annoying, also the fact that people automatically assume something that doesn't immediately add up is a failure of writing and a retcon because half the chat thinks they understand the world more than the people who wrote it, like there's definitely a retcon or two but people here try to decide everything's a retcon immediatly instead of thinking about how it could make sense

[abstract rivet]

City of Tears felt like rain, Citadel felt like Sunlight, thats good until you learn what the sun means in this series

[sterile jacinth]

Ooh that’s true

[eternal gazelle]

The "hollow knight canon" was largely a mirage formed in this very server

[abstract rivet]

Lifeblood could be another force of nature similiar to the void but

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah it’s frustrating. I also notice people take things on face value or put characters or events into very black and white categories and it’s really annoying because silksong has a lot of nuance in like every aspect. That’s why the blanket “Hornet is a bad person” or “lace is a bad person” comments piss me off so much

[abstract rivet]

this games js a flawed masterpiece and can be perfected

[timber pond]

This is true I was there

[dry bridge]

it feels like a slum that is still a part of the greater greymoor territory

[sterile jacinth]

The sun is a deadly laser /ref

[timber pond]

If no one reading this belives me look at my message history and go to earliest messages lol

[abstract rivet]

Dark Souls taught me to Preach The Sun
Hollow Knight taught me to kill it

[sterile jacinth]

I have no reason to disbelieve you lol

[trail wasp]

The line through the entire land made me think you were discussing the quickest way to visit every map in the game...now I wanna try and do that

[timber pond]

Masterpieces often have flaws. Do you know how many art critics are critical of the Mona Lisa? Lol. I don't think masterpieces will never NOT have flaws.

[timber pond]

Anyone else who reads it in the future i mean

[muted lantern]

Tbf you do also kill the sun in dark souls

[abstract rivet]

yeah lol you do

[sterile jacinth]

That’s literally impossible lol. Perfection is impossible and I feel like some people take the fact that media can be flawed personally

[muted lantern]

There's a song called kill the sun that I really like

[whole bronze]

Wait
There is a boss that is called voltwyrm
You know who else is a wyrm?
The pale king
And wyrms are kinda gods in this world
Then why in the world the weakest boss in the game is a supposed "god"?

[muted lantern]

One of my favorite games is in stars and time and good lord does that games combat suck

[sterile jacinth]

Might just be a descriptor

[abstract rivet]

Dark Souls was my first challenging dark fantasy game i played it has a special place in my heart thats how I got interested in Hollow Knight lol as soon as I heard 2D Dark Souls

[muted lantern]

I think the spelling is different

[spark valve]

Voltvyrm is probably not a wyrm

[eternal gazelle]

It's actually voltvyrm

[sterile jacinth]

Real. I feel similar about some of my favorite games. I can acknowledge the fact they have flaws and still love them

[timber pond]

I don't think that one is that deep

[lilac hedge]

Voltvyrm if you add another v :

[whole bronze]

Wait what
Well
Again nothing serious of a suspicious thingy

[whole bronze]

Woltvyrm /j

[lilac hedge]

The other v

[lament gate]

woltwyrm

[sterile jacinth]

Trueeee

Media literacy can be hard to find these days </3

[abstract rivet]

Zote uses shellwood for their sword. This is a really key important part area in the civilization of the Aztecs, as their civilization also had used wood types similiar to shellwood in Hollow Knight. Now fast forwarding to the Aztec Empire’s decline, The Spanish Empire had pillaged their civilizations foundations already, leaving Zote to pick up the treasure the Aztecs left. This directly contradicts that Zote was born in the times of the Aztec Empire.

Holly shit i am yapping to yap

[sterile jacinth]

Oh goodness

Zote is not Aztec confirmed

Lmao

[silk dirge]

bro pack it up with the zote shellwood theory 😭

[lilac hedge]

What does the spanish empire have to do with this

[abstract rivet]

LMAO this is how the theories sound like

[lilac hedge]

Viva espana

[lament gate]

guys zote was the pale wyrm and the pale king just showed up at a similar time trust

[abstract rivet]

hang on imma psot in skong discussion

[muted lantern]

Zote upgrading life ender to a Macuahuitl would be fucking terrifying tbf

[sterile jacinth]

Why would zote steal from the Aztecs smh

[muted lantern]

He works for the British museum

[sterile jacinth]

Wait you’re onto something

[abstract rivet]

Also I have a question are Muckmaggots basically Flukes of this game

[sterile jacinth]

Wdym?

[lament gate]

precept 61: steal everything, it will all be useful just keep grabbing stuff

[muted lantern]

Similar in some senses, but not the same species

[lilac hedge]

Yes excpet we dont have muckmarms

[muted lantern]

Both based on maggots

[muted lantern]

Yet...

[sterile jacinth]

They’re a different kind of maggot bread to be livestock as roaches

[timber pond]

Look man I was drawing parallels while trying to be educational😅

[sterile jacinth]

Silksong is so cool <3

[lilac hedge]

Goddamn i need a hk game with infinite areas i js cant get enough of exploring new areas

[sterile jacinth]

Gotta wait 10 years

[abstract rivet]

We all do but we all do

[lament gate]

procedurally generated hollow knight maps with a randomizer would kinda go crazy tbh

[muted lantern]

I feel like with procedurally generated hollow knight you would quickly realize how miserable the game would feel without the tightly designed manmade levels

[sinful nimbus]

Oh so the mist

[spark valve]

the mist doesn't count it's just a handful of rooms shuffled around

[lilac hedge]

I think u replied to the wrong message

[sinful nimbus]

Roguelite fans be like yo this gameplay is fire 🗣️

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah I prefer the more handcrafted and curated areas. It’s more intentional and feels more personal

[spark valve]

I mean with actual roguelike systems

and more than like three rooms

[muted lantern]

Nah, infinite areas would require procedural generation, I was writing it before someone else mentioned it

[sterile jacinth]

Pharloom is more of like a lived in place and I don’t think it would fit with procedurally generated rooms

[sinful nimbus]

Why would you want the map to feel intentional that breaks immersion

[lilac hedge]

Yeah obv i know that its just a metaphor ool

[abstract rivet]

how is The Mist generated exactly?

[spark valve]

umm actually parts of the map are made by sapient creatures checkmate

[spark valve]

byproduct of exhaust organ

[muted lantern]

Also the exploration of skong is fun as it's all intentionally placed, to be the right challenge and have good secrets. if you want a sense of what a game with exploration and secrets as a focus would be like with procedural generation your closest bet would be to play bloodborne chalice dungeons

[sterile jacinth]

And probably phantom

[abstract rivet]

yeah buddy how tho

I’m disappointed that Bilewater was a bit small

[lilac hedge]

Its big asf bro

[sterile jacinth]

I think dead cells does good with this too. The procedural generation helps with the hostility of the setting I think

[muted lantern]

I think it works as it's kinda an extension of putrified and sinners road

[sterile jacinth]

It’s one of the biggest areas in the game 😅

[abstract rivet]

Yeah still small

[muted lantern]

Tbf bb chalice dungeons are good fun, but they just aren't up to the same standard of quality as anything else in bb

[abstract rivet]

Make it half the fucking map afterall we LOVE poisonous swamps

[lilac hedge]

Are you obsessed with muckmaggots or

[muted lantern]

Mmm pickled muckmaggots

[abstract rivet]

no i just love poisonous swamps

I remember my old nostalgic memories with Blight Town in Dark Souls

Bilewater brought the memories back

[muted lantern]

Miyazakis ideal player

[sterile jacinth]

Aaaah sweet memories of hell <3

[abstract rivet]

Dude I think i damaged my PC because of Blight Town

Would do it again fuck yeah

[misty stirrup]

Phantoms playing it and the exhaust + the silk fumes combined with phantom's anguish create the thing

[sterile jacinth]

-# I actually found bilewater to be a fun challenge.

[lament gate]

hey if you designed a new area for silksong from scratch what would it be

[muted lantern]

I do think bilewater perfected blighttowns concept by making the poison completely avoidable with good platforming instead of a forced part of one section. The lake at the bottom was the only genuinely poorly designed segment of blighttown

[sterile jacinth]

I love the atmosphere unironically

[abstract rivet]

yeah lol I love bilewater

[spark valve]

a weavenest somewhere that actually has construct enemies and makes better use of the atla vibe for a full area

[muted lantern]

Would be fire

[abstract rivet]

I would make a new poisonous swamp

[lament gate]

yeah a larger weavenest that needs it's own map would be sick

[spark valve]

the intense disappointment of finding more rooms in atla only for them to basically be moss grotto

[silk dirge]

idk what type of area id make

[sterile jacinth]

Something in the sky Mario style

[silk dirge]

actually i do wait

[abstract rivet]

Tbh a purple area would be DOPE

[lilac hedge]

Fr i thought the dark blue vibe would keep on until i found 2 moss mothers

[silk dirge]

id expand on brightvein

brightvein deserves to be more than a mask shard

[lapis creek]

you could have a weavenest in the top right instead of putrified ducts

or buried in mt fay

[lament gate]

oh a dedicated brightvein area would be sick

[spark valve]

sure put it beyond pale lake

[lapis creek]

obviously these ones would have to be post sealing

[silk dirge]

idk if that would make sense since thats right next to the citadel

[lapis creek]

the weavers have to live somewhere

[sterile jacinth]

I want some monument floating in the sky legend of Zelda style. With like fun platforming

[spark valve]

just make it so gms's sight is angled down

[abstract rivet]

a purple foggy forest

[spark valve]

surface bugs are beyond her influence but right next to her

[sterile jacinth]

With fireflies???

[abstract rivet]

What are we cooking

[sterile jacinth]

Cooking 🔥 🔥

[lapis creek]

i guess they sleep in the citadel

[silk dirge]

anyways dedicated brightvein area should have switches that switch it from cold to hot- wait where have i seen this before

[lapis creek]

but you could easily have them live off to the side somewhere

[silk dirge]

abyss escape if it used celeste sandwich lava

[lilac hedge]

Dont think gms would care about the bugs in the surface, what are they gonna control, wastelands?

[sterile jacinth]

I’d love an atmospheric foggy purple forest with like fireflies

[silk dirge]

im not a big chapter 8 fan but the sandwich lava is a really fun mechanic

[spark valve]

she haunts animals throughout pharloom which she has as much reason to

[lilac hedge]

Are we talking about nameless village here

[lapis creek]

the weavenest don't all have to be areas where the weavers prepared for revolt

[spark valve]

I mean
they kinda do?

[sterile jacinth]

I think in general they are

There how they prepared for gms to reawaken (in vain)

They’re*

[spark valve]

that's not what the weavenests were for

[lapis creek]

no i mean in general they are in the final game but you could have made another one that was built post-sealing

[spark valve]

the weavenests predate the citadel

[sterile jacinth]

Citadel of stone probably existed before

[spark valve]

it would be odd when they have zero reason to actually do it

[silk dirge]

anyways id be down for the entire abyss being weavenest absolom and having weaver void experiments play a larger part in the story but this is getting to what i was saying earlier today where i tried doing some rewriting and ended up coming up with a fuck ton of ac lore

[sterile jacinth]

That would be cool

[lapis creek]

maybe they just dont want to live in the citadel

[spark valve]

that would be weird characterization for the group that relished being free of gms and able to lord over other bugs

[sterile jacinth]

The weave nests are outposts, not homes

[lament gate]

i would probably make an area on the eastern side, im not sure what i would make it look like visually but i would make it distinct from the blasted steps since the weavenest cindril secret room just seems to show more sand but in grey

[sterile jacinth]

That was a place to escape Pharloom

[silk dirge]

honestly one of my ideas was that to get conductors melody you have to track down romino in the wastes

[timber pond]

That just proves that we need more explanations for the threads of civilization team cherry have sowed and not a rewrite lol.

[silk dirge]

making the wastes an area could be interesting

[spark valve]

ballador kind of makes more sense

[sterile jacinth]

Would balador be dead in this scenario?

[silk dirge]

possibly

[sterile jacinth]

It would probably look like the howling cliffs

[silk dirge]

or conductors hate weavers

something like that

[spark valve]

I mean they do

[sterile jacinth]

They definitely hold a resentment

[spark valve]

everyone hates weavers weavers enslaved them

[silk dirge]

i mean like conductors were the ones who sent capture parties after weavers

type hate

[timber pond]

Weavers make webs of lies as they say!

[sterile jacinth]

I doubt that. I think it was gms after she started the haunting

[silk dirge]

like a case like that ballador aint teaching hornet shit

[silk dirge]

ik this is theoretical different story

[sterile jacinth]

You’re weaver? Fuck you you piece of shit

[lapis creek]

i guess? idk why they have to live in the citadel full time to do this but i see your point