sk-lore

[muted lantern]

so pick your favorite unless something comes along to confirm one or the other in dlc

[trail wasp]

People just keep telling me or atlking like ETV ending is the defacto choice

And it's just confusing me

[muted lantern]

its because shade lord flashes onscreen

but again its intentionally vague.

it also shows ghost in their dnm form

[trail wasp]

The Shade Lord isn't exclusive to ETV ending though

[drowsy spoke]

one thing i just realized, and maybe that's just overthinking, seeing ||Groal||'s fight:
like moths, ||frogs|| and maybe snails (like the shaman family) in hollow knight are more "attuned" with "magic/soul"?
you can see ||Groal|| using a spell like Vengeful Spirit
was that ever mentioned in any of the two games?

[inland adder]

Hollow Knight is Protestant. Silksong is Catholic. I will not elaborate

[muted lantern]

you don't need to spoiler tag here btw

[trail wasp]

We just see Shade Lord in the ETV ending due to the Godseekers messing with drawing out entities

[muted lantern]

it seems like he stole the magic from the dead shaman near his arena

[trail wasp]

No reason to assume it doesn't exist in DNM

Or is that incorrect?

[muted lantern]

again, it intentionally could go either way

[drowsy spoke]

ooh, true
didn't thought about that

[drowsy spoke]

oh, i didn't knew XD

[trail wasp]

Yea, Groal is a big tyrant of the Bilewater

listened to no reason for alliance and only took the Shaman as another means of power

And its hard to blame, especially with the literally shitty times Bilewater's in

[edgy nebula]

yeah

Their shells are ours.
Their souls are ours.
Our hate is forever.

very scary!

[muted lantern]

sanest american politician

holden bloodfeast ass line

[fathom hill]

maybe they think frog is a tw

if not why wouldn't they spoiler tag the snail shamans too

sadge

[muted lantern]

they said they just didn't know spoilers didn't need to be tagged here

[fathom hill]

I'm messin around

[muted lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/frog-fat-caress-animal-gif-17015097

frogposting however is harshly punished by mods

[fathom hill]

It is

[muted lantern]

by execution

[fathom hill]

frogs are so cool

It's a monkeys paw situation though that the one frog like bug we got was groal out of everyone

[muted lantern]

groal is only a bug because you are what you eat

he was just a normal frog once

[fathom hill]

bro sprouted 6 legs and wings cuz he fat it's that what you saying?

[muted lantern]

because he eata the bug

https://tenor.com/view/italian-river-speed-boat-perfecto-gif-17332909

[fathom hill]

why would groal do this

[muted lantern]

chara made him do it

[regal crow]

What’s nyleth’s story?

Man, and I thought karmelita had a roundabout way of getting to her, but nyleth looks like she should be in shellwood

[muted lantern]

She is in shellwood

just above it

in a section we access through the citadel

[lethal burrow]

plant that helped the forest, died

[muted lantern]

God i really want nyleth to be connected to isma, just bc it would be crazy cool for her to have similar powers.

but idk if its canon

[regal crow]

Yeah that would be cool

What happened to Nyleth’s body? It’s a fountain we use to reach her, not her like with the others

[muted lantern]

It is really funny that ogrim and isma are implied to be a thing, the compost guy and the plant lady

[regal crow]

Seeding the flowers. Not weird at all

[muted lantern]

Not saying its weird, saying its funny how well it works

[craggy smelt]

kinda seems like she lost that physical form and just became a presence within Shellwood

[muted lantern]

ya we can see her face all over

especially the buds that shoot out a head at you

[craggy smelt]

interestingly, Isma and Nyleth do look a little alike, and Isma seems to be/become some kind of plant creature
maybe they were both 'Seeds'

[muted lantern]

maybe its just a type of nature spirit

like roots maybe?

[craggy smelt]

Seeds and Roots, I buy it

[muted lantern]

bugs and plants world

and 1 amphibian

[craggy smelt]

Seth mentions 'sacred seeds', plural
while Nyleth was 'the first seed'
so there might've been more than one

I also think there could be a connection with Sister Splinter, who mentions sisters that are long gone, and an 'other, sleeping' (Nyleth)

[muted lantern]

ooh thas possible

sister splinter does seem to be blooming into something after her death

kinda like isma?

[regal crow]

Is the fountain a memorial to her?

[muted lantern]

Are the animals in shellwood all haunted?

[regal crow]

Idr meeting isma in 1. Where was she?

[craggy smelt]

it's the Shrine Seth guards, it was more of a place of worship and not originally a grave or anything

[muted lantern]

ismas grove near waterways, shes dead but you collect her tear to swim through acid

[regal crow]

Yeah I remember that, but don’t remember seeing her body

[muted lantern]

its the thing you get the tear from

this, you can see her mask there

[regal crow]

Subtle

[craggy smelt]

if you compare it with her silhouette from White Defender, you can see she was pretty leafy looking

[muted lantern]

I wonder how she died

[muted lantern]

3 badass and imposing women and pekka from clash of clans

[regal crow]

Got planted clearly

[muted lantern]

killed by zombies on her lawn, tragic

[regal crow]

Nah, probably just died and the plants grow over her

[regal crow]

Yeah

[muted lantern]

Honestly a boss rush dlc would be the perfect time to have great knights boss fights, because hornet probably sparred with them at a point so having a memory fight would make sense

[craggy smelt]

pale court already did it

I did speculate on getting content with them during Silksong, but it never wound up happening

a memory DLC would be welcome though, I could see Vespa certainly, maybe some other figures from memory

(Herrah and White Lady boss fights? probably not...)

[lethal burrow]

It's also possible that she just decomposed like a normal plant

[craggy smelt]

that's one way to lose a physical form I suppose

[muted lantern]

Imagine tiny hornet play sparring with her mom as a boss battle

[craggy smelt]

the little hornet skins from the first game will be canon at last...

[muted lantern]

like those videos of lion moms pretending to be hurt when their cub bite them

[stuck berry]

could xero be related to the order of karak or is it just a random coincidence

[muted lantern]

probably not, but one of the spirits glade guys looks exactly like a karak guy so it might have been designed by the same backer

[stuck berry]

revek kind of looks like one of the flying enemies in khann's gauntlet imo

but that's a stretch

[craggy smelt]

the karaka? I doubt it
this guy, now...

[muted lantern]

thats who i was talking about

he looks very karakpilled

A true khanmaxxer

[craggy smelt]

he and xero have the same armor, and very similar details

so they might be part of the same group

but I seriously doubt either of them are connected to the karaka

there's just a limited number of shapes you can make when the artstyle is this simple, some similarities are going to crop up

[random aspen]

i never noticed xero was like tht too

[peak mauve]

|| https://tenor.com/view/hollow-knight-hollow-knight-breakdance-gif-4991443249772973911 ||

[stuck berry]

what the hell is a polar bear doing in arlington, texas

[drifting apex]

What 'kind' is she talking about? Is it something related to the original game? Because I've played it and still have no idea what she could possibly be referencing

[heavy gyro]

Continue playing

[light mauve]

How did shade lord come to pharloom

[craggy smelt]

swam

[light mauve]

🤯

[viscid ridge]

They are all snail shamans, which we saw a ton of in Hallownest

Speaking of that, did you all realize that when binding the Shaman Crest, you can actually see the ancestors of the snail shamans in the background?

[stuck berry]

spoilers man

[viscid ridge]

I mean sorry, but this aint the right channel to avoid spoilers 🥲

[stuck berry]

his mistake for coming here before finishing the game but doesn't mean we should be the ones to spoil it for him

[craggy smelt]

the delicious twist has been revealed

how tragic

[stuck berry]

probably top 5 discovery moments in the game for me

[viscid ridge]

I caught on that the Caretaker was a snail shaman when hornet started talking about how he pretended to be a pilgrim. Glad my suspicions were proven correct by the end of the game 🔥

[stuck berry]

have a discord mutual who predicted it and i finished the game before they did so it was really funny in retrospect

[craggy smelt]

I thought the Chapel Maid was a snail when the needolin dialogued had her talking about 'spirals' and 'glistening trails' etc., and I noticed the Bell Hermit had similar dialogue
I don't think I clued in on the Caretaker right away, not until he reacted to the Soul I got from Groal

[stuck berry]

the snail shamans were such an inconsequential part of the first game in my eyes i hardly noticed the signs like the staff

[muted lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/dexter-gif-1878760417600646737

they all talk about spirals which gave it away early for me, each time a new one of a character with a bulbous body covered in cloth talking about spirals and knowing too much i was just like

[stuck berry]

ballow bell hermit and chappel maid were more important characters than we thought at first glance

was there anyone else

[muted lantern]

greyroot ig?

though she always kinda looked special

sherma maybe

[craggy smelt]

i figured Greyroot was going to be a bigger deal, honestly
still pretty neat

[muted lantern]

I think most assumed sherma would be another myla

[craggy smelt]

I hated Sherma before the game

but I couldn't maintain it

[muted lantern]

what did he do to you pre release?

[craggy smelt]

gave rise to this:

look at that wretched little fuck

[stuck berry]

it's interesting because there is narrative value in killing him off

[muted lantern]

if they killed him i would have done an undertale genocide route on pharloom

[stuck berry]

could give way to themes like blind faith leads to downfall corruption of the innocent etc etc

but it's more impactful that he lives and works on improving the system that failed him

[stuck berry]

i remember being 15 and thinking that this was the funniest shit ever 🧓

[muted lantern]

They were making skong emojis before skong?

man im glad i avoided the brainrot

[craggy smelt]

started with that first trailer

[muted lantern]

Honestly i forgot about silksong until i finally came back and finished hollow knight and did the dlc stuff like the pantheons and radiant hall of god etc like less than a year ago

then the release date came out and i just avoided the entire 7 year waiting period

[stuck berry]

i played hk to completion years ago but when the release date was announced i replayed and 112% completed all of it in 6 sittings

[craggy smelt]

I hate you

my life was 90-95% waiting for silksong

now what's it going to be about

waiting for silksong DLC ig

[muted lantern]

I actually finished blasphemous before hollow knight, and thought it was better

[light mauve]

Are you 7

[stuck berry]

erm nine sols was right there

[craggy smelt]

that's wrong
but not by a lot

[light mauve]

Bros discord account is older than him

[muted lantern]

though id have to play blasphmous again to to compare the 2 nowadays

[atomic widget]

Now that the wait for silksong is over, the wait for Crowsworn begins

[light mauve]

Wait for what

[atomic widget]

Look it up, it looks promising

[muted lantern]

honestly the big waiting period of silksong I was in my rpgmaker game phase, playing shit like lisa, look outside, in stars and time. I also got into rain world a lot

[stuck berry]

newgens don't know what crowsworn is oh how it hurts

[stuck berry]

have you played yume nikki

[atomic widget]

Don't talk about the Crowsworn drought

[muted lantern]

I only watched a playthrough....

but it looks really cool

[stuck berry]

eh close enough

[craggy smelt]

crowsworn does look really good

they kicked me off the discord though, i don't know why

[muted lantern]

I still need to play the off remake i heard its fire

[muted lantern]

did you crowswear

[stuck berry]

i used to think crowsworn looked insanely hard but after beating silksong and nine sols i think i'll have fun

[craggy smelt]

i crowswore after i got kicked

[muted lantern]

I still need to finish nine sols

[stuck berry]

hoping they give sugar something to do this time around

nine sols is awesome it's 30 hours and the story is probably top 5 for any game i've played for me

[craggy smelt]

i have nine sols, but i haven't played it yet - i should
it looks alr ig

[muted lantern]

Honestly I gave up on hollow knight when i got to the dreamers section, idk why but I found that section unimaginably boring. I actually liked act 3 more than the dreamers hunt

only came back to it last year

[atomic widget]

Radiant Markoth made me quit the game for a year

[muted lantern]

I got to the prison section then my pc got fixed so i stopped borrowing my dads xbox

[muted lantern]

I didn't actually have that hard of a time with him or zote, radiant absrad ruined me tho

[stuck berry]

shame that part is followed by two insanely good bosses

[atomic widget]

But like everytime I quit the game for a year, I came back only stronger

[stuck berry]

not counting kanghui that guy sucks

[muted lantern]

Honestly the reason i came back to hollowknight is really fucking funny and also embarassing

It was fanfics that got me back into hk's lore

[stuck berry]

many such cases

[atomic widget]

Fair enough

[muted lantern]

listen there were some bangers

stag beetles and broken legs is peak fiction

anyway we should talk about skong lore

So are those little face statues that are bundled in rosaries graves?

[atomic widget]

It's like this image

[stuck berry]

they could i can imagine pilgrims leaving rosaries there to bless their souls or something of that ilk

something of that ilk is an awesome phrase it doesn't see enough use

[viscid ridge]

One thing i hope they add, is that when you use silk soar at the top of mount fay, it will take you to the Fayforn nest

Theres actually a ton of places they can add that utilize the silksoar

[muted lantern]

silksoar on the surface and go into the backrooms

[cobalt coyote]

Silksoar on the surface and it just never stops launching the needle

[muted lantern]

hornet dies in orbit

[craggy smelt]

it hits the cavern ceiling, because the 'surface' is actually underground

because everything is underground

[atomic widget]

You're gonna be joining mr mushroom at that point

[dense aspen]

Ok no but seriously what the fuck did hornet mean by the green prince hunters journal

Or whatever it was

Clover dancers
Yeah what did the fuck did she mean by that?

[slow olive]

For one to love another so similar to themselves, is that selfless or vain?

This one?

[quick geyser]

What else could they be talking about

[slow olive]

Could be the first part i dunno

[dense aspen]

Yes

[slow olive]

Hornet just musing on the lovers being so similar to each other

[quick geyser]

But when great conchfly-

[opaque pier]

Theres gotta be a surface somewhere

[craggy smelt]

No.

no surface. no sun or sky.

only underground bug kingdoms forever

[opaque pier]

How light tho

[craggy smelt]

underground forever forever million years underground

[fresh badger]

Homophobia!

[midnight zinc]

-Kills gay man in his sleep
-“man what a narcissist”
-take his heart as a memento

Honestly I’d be honored if hornet killed me and kept part of me as a trophy

[charred nimbus]

Thankfully for Green prince he still has a spirit and will in him

[charred nimbus]

Wait, weren't you the guy from yesterday that said it was bad for the nailsmith to want to go like he did?

[eternal forge]

I killed the nailsmith with a spell

/userphone

[eternal forge]

i gejujnely forgot i wasnin this server

[opaque pier]

Good ending

[mossy bay]

how and why.....

[craggy smelt]

she told you this would happen

should've paid closer to attention to her

[midnight zinc]

Yeah suicide is bad

Is that a controversial take?

[charred nimbus]

nah, i don't think so

[midnight zinc]

Alright cool

[ionic bear]

hey wait, what if one of the dlcs IS going back to hallownest and then hornet finds that the weavers there, arent infected anymore bc the knight, and then hornet gets to live happily ever after as the new weaver queen in hallownest

cuz the hallownest weavers arent infected anymore

or what if hornet goes elsewhere and finds more weavers

thatd be cool too

[halcyon merlin]

hornet doesn't want to govern that's like literally why act 3 happens

[cobalt coyote]

Yall expecting too much from dlcs

[ionic bear]

Side eye

[halcyon merlin]

she wants that sweet sweet freedom

[ionic bear]

Hornet will suggest a new weaver queen then and then live.happily ever after

[halcyon merlin]

lace 🔥

[atomic widget]

Bro that is the LAST person you want to put in a governing position😭

[charred nimbus]

I mean, Team cherry said that DLC's would be ambitious, but people who are expeting us to go back to hallownest are using too much copium and delusion.

[halcyon merlin]

we already went to hallownest with red memory :clueless:

[mossy lance]

if any boss in the game deserves to have the freedom motif it's first sinner

[potent agate]

How do judges judge the pilgrims?

[halcyon merlin]

true...

[deep latch]

She can rest at last

[mossy bay]

suicide?

[vestal swan]

Her gears just stopped turning

Basically everything is clockwork so I would say her heart was only ever run for a certain amount of time

[vestal swan]

We don't really know

[cobalt coyote]

So shes just drad

Dead

[vestal swan]

Yeah her heart falls out on the floor

[cobalt coyote]

You mean future cogflies?

[vestal swan]

No?

She's mechanical she had a gear based heart

[wintry flame]

vibes

[potent agate]

Of course 🗣

I dont think they wouldve punished a lot of pilgrims tho since they need them for the citadel

Only for the pilgrims that looked really off maybe

[lusty tree]

are the judges slaves to the citadel?

or do they work willingly?

[cobalt coyote]

Meant to say that i turned the heart into shards then into cogflies

[mossy lance]

if they've killed anyone or not iirc?

[vestal swan]

Brainwashed as children just like the slab

[vestal swan]

That would be what not how

[mossy lance]

judge enemy trivia

[mossy lance]

oh im stupid

i apologize "what not how" is just confusing to read

[abstract rivet]

Is it just me or I find Silksongs story and lore better than Hollow Knights

[wintry flame]

yeah

there's a lot more cool stuff to dicuss

[halcyon merlin]

maybe one of the reasons is because you're already fed up with hollow knight

the game has been out for years, everything already has been discussed

silksong is new so there's a lot to discuss and well some silksong stuff also lets you discuss hk...

but well in a way silksong is superior to hk

[ancient sinew]

It’s just you

Bit rude

Nice jab

[sinful nimbus]

Dude quit being such a negative nancy all the time

[ancient sinew]

That’s literally not what that means do you speak English

Finding SS’ narrative inferior to HK’s doesn’t mean I have nothing nice to say about the game

”I like ketchup more” “so you hate mayonnaise?”

It was a response to a rhetorical question

Obviously that doesn’t mean literally every person on planet earth aside from the one asking thinks HK’s narrative is better

Also this isn’t lore hop off if you have an issue with me go modmail it

It was a response to a rhetorical question

“Am I the only person who thinks x” obviously isn’t literal

It was a conversation starter

Ok you can’t read

[lusty tree]

i left for like ten minutes to drink soup wth is happening

[ancient sinew]

The question was “is it just me or do I find SS’ story better” the response was “it is just you” meaning “HK’s story is better” not “nobody likes Silksong”

I’m not doing this shit with you it isn’t the place for it go modmail if you wanna start shit

Go back to lore or shut up

Yes, me saying HK’s story is better is obviously my opinion do I have to preface every mesaage with “this is my opinion” so that you can understand it

I don’t know why you assume I hate the game when I never implied that

[lusty tree]

in my opinion hk and ss are equal

[sinful nimbus]

You must be such a miserable hack to criticize a game you don't enjoy

[unreal estuary]

Y'all go fight somewhere else

[ancient sinew]

Sorry I’ll make sure I do that more so that you can take me seriously

[lusty tree]

fr

[ancient sinew]

I’ve already told them to modmail multiple times but they don’t wanna give up, atp ping mods

[unreal estuary]

you're actively continuing the argument stop replyign then

[lusty tree]

how did the weavers reach the abyss and build weavernest absolom?

[ancient sinew]

Anyway both SS and HK’s themes are very superficial but the latter’s narrative is more coherent and frankly better written

[lusty tree]

i never got that

[ancient sinew]

You don’t have to relate with the main character to find the story engaging

[sinful nimbus]

HK is really just another drop-in-the-bucket indie game about facing your trauma

[ancient sinew]

Both games have very superficial themes it isn’t deep

[unreal estuary]

they probably had a bunch of diving bells like we see in-game

or something similar

[ancient sinew]

It’s not that crazy

teleportation is a very basic application of soul

[lusty tree]

doesn't that just shoot someone up really fast?

[lusty tree]

DAWG STFU ALREADY ITS NOT THAT DEEP JUST DROP IT

[ancient sinew]

Ok but like genuinely teleport is maybe the most basic application of soul in universe

I don’t know why those things would be fundamentally different

No it is powered by soul, “weaver technology” is just silk magic

We’re explicitly told as much

And the Weavenest is literally powered by a giant spool of silk

[lusty tree]

how did the weavers even build this kind of technology with silk threads tho? thats the main thing we should we talking about imo

sure silk is magical but how did the weavers build TELEPORTATION

[ancient sinew]

I don’t understand the distinction

[sinful nimbus]

Teleportation is a soul spell

[ancient sinew]

Because it’s magic and can be used to teleport people

[sinful nimbus]

They probably used runes to automate the process

[ancient sinew]

Silk is soul

[sinful nimbus]

Ofc runes aren't a fleshed out magical system so the answer to "How did they build this" is "Magic"

[ancient sinew]

We’re told this repeatedly throughout the game it’s the same shit

That Weavers use a silk medium doesn’t change how their magic fundamentally works

[lusty tree]

soul sanctum also has weird eye thingies in pods that are very similar to eva, maybe the soul sanctum scientists took inspiration from weavers?

[ancient sinew]

Only because the soul god that gave them their powers is the primal source of silk, we are repeatedly told it is the same shit

Even TC have said Hornet’s bind is fundamentally similar to TK’s focus

[short shale]

This is a stupid question, but did anyone ever think about the actual size of the bugs in the HK/SK universe?
There are some clues showing they could actually be far bigger than they should be

[ancient sinew]

They are basically the same ability, silk is soul again this is repeatedly stated

[lusty tree]

which one came first? silk or soul?

[ancient sinew]

Neither ability is used exclusively for healing, both TK and Hornet can bind things other than soul/silk respectively and most importantly Hornet gains silk even from attacking enemies whose bodies do not contain silk because her shell just converts soul into silk because they are the same thing

It’s just a slightly different style of spellcasting

[sinful nimbus]

Crazy how Silk doesn't feel distinct from Soul at all

[ancient sinew]

Like how Shaman spells look more fluid than PV’s

[sinful nimbus]

Mfw only 2 of the 6 spells actually use silk

[ancient sinew]

What different properties does it have

[lusty tree]

fym only two of the six spells use silk?

[ancient sinew]

Uhm…

[lusty tree]

only one doesn't use silk

[ancient sinew]

They all use silk

[lusty tree]

the parry?

[ancient sinew]

All of Hornet’s spellcasting is silk

[sinful nimbus]

Everything other than Silkspear and Gossamer Storm is just a generic soul spell that you wouldn't really bat an eye at in Hollow Knight

[ancient sinew]

Yes

[low obsidian]

where do the pilgrims come from anyways what are they doin all the way down at bone bottom

[unreal estuary]

Silk is soul applied into a thread, soul is more like a soup, it can be molden into different shapes while Silk can only be woven and spun into things

[sterile jacinth]

We think there’s little villages right on the edge of Pharloom we can’t explore like where Shakra and Garamond came from

[low obsidian]

good point

[sinful nimbus]

Pure Vessels soul spells were refined and precise as well

[silk dirge]

the legendary pilgrim spawnpoint

[unreal estuary]

But then how did they get into Bonebottom, there aren't any entrances

[ancient sinew]

Soul can be very refined, look at PV’s spells, it’s able to form runes and solid constructs using the stuff. Silk is only more refined than like Shaman spells, which are themselves far less refined than PV magic, because these are all just different spellcasting styles and not meaningfully different

[silk dirge]

yeah pv used the exact same spells as first sinner

[unreal estuary]

That's probably still the right answer but it's a little confusing

[sterile jacinth]

Well id guess there aren’t for gameplay reasons. Like I bet there are ways but not for the player

[eternal gazelle]

the one I can think of is that silk is physically persistent. The citadel is able to gather scraps of it floating through the air and reuse it, while the sanctum scholars had to be very careful to keep the soul they extracted in containers or they'd lose it forever

[ancient sinew]

Not the exact same spell they just both use runes

[unreal estuary]

True, like how Vessels were able to escape the Abyss

[silk dirge]

i mean very similar ones

[sterile jacinth]

Yea exactly

[ancient sinew]

But soul has the same properties no matter where it is

[sterile jacinth]

It’s a 3d world represented through a 2d screen

[eternal gazelle]

silk is way easier for mundane bugs to get their hands on

[silk dirge]

yeah silk is definitely more "physical"

judging by how regular citadel bugs can use it

[sinful nimbus]

In the context of spellcasting its properties don't change too much

[ancient sinew]

Soul held in a container or bound to a totem or vessel or whatever is also physically persistent, silk is just another medium in this context and the scholars were amateurs

[eternal gazelle]

I said that already

[ancient sinew]

AC, PK, Shamans, any skilled soul user doesn’t appear to have had this proboem

[silk dirge]

also speaking of this why does hornet not get silk from the soul jars after groal

[ancient sinew]

So then I wouldn’t describe that as a meaningful distinction

[silk dirge]

id assume thats just a bug no one has reported

[eternal gazelle]

I think solid vs gas is a pretty meaningful difference in properties

[silk dirge]

powdered was using it to argue getting silk from non haunted enemies is a gameplay mechanic and im like uhhh no

im pretty sure thats a bug but its so minor no one really cares about it

[eternal gazelle]

in terms of spellcasting? No there's not really a difference

[ancient sinew]

In this context it’s more like “magic bound in a solid medium” vs “magic stored in a container”, the actual spellcasting and properties thereof don’t differ all that much

Silk is just a medium, just like Vessel shells or AC totems are a medium idk if it’s that massive a difference

Well first of all I’d actually argue Hallownest was pretty similar in terms of overall tech level, Hallownest tech just didn’t rely on Soul because it wasn’t safe (they instead used the crystals)

[silk dirge]

i love my magic crystals

[ancient sinew]

Pharloom tech is derived from Weaver tech which is silk based

[silk dirge]

pharloom tech is also based off the souls of bugs put to eternal servitude

[ancient sinew]

Hallownest also has automatons

[silk dirge]

i much prefer crystal batteries

[ancient sinew]

They had an automated mine, they didn’t have an area analogous to cogwork core because it wasn’t needed

[silk dirge]

and also bc cogwork core lore is fucked up

[ancient sinew]

That isn’t a difference in tech level because Hallownest clearly had the tech to develop something similar

[silk dirge]

my goat pk would never turn bugs into silkflies for eternal servitude

[exotic tulip]

Alr i have a theory

[ancient sinew]

yes because Hallownest’s civilization crumhled literal ages before the events of the game?

[olive gyro]

What giant robots were there in hallow nest

[ancient sinew]

Crystal golems

[silk dirge]

the crystal heart one

[olive gyro]

Ah

[exotic tulip]

Karmelita is suicidal af

[olive gyro]

I forgot about those ones

[ancient sinew]

Kingsmoulds are also Void robots

But I don’t count those here

[silk dirge]

as a robotics engineering major nah

[olive gyro]

Those are robots??

[ancient sinew]

They functionally are yes

[olive gyro]

Huh

[silk dirge]

technically the steel hearts are also robots

[ancient sinew]

Both the Crystal Golems and Kingsmoulds are created via a similar process

[silk dirge]

to me they are more analogous to like liquid metal terminator

[ancient sinew]

Which is essence imprinting

[olive gyro]

Did we ever learn what the crystal golems were used for?

[silk dirge]

idk my robotics eng brain is just like "it has to be mechanical to be a robot"

[olive gyro]

Ah, ok

Makes sense

[silk dirge]

do we know what the crystals were used for in hallownest

[olive gyro]

Myla was infinitely more efficient and I don't care what you say😭

[eternal gazelle]

I don't even think Pharloom should get much credit for having automatons because they're just being controlled by dead people

[silk dirge]

yeah this

[eternal gazelle]

Alphys-ass science department

[silk dirge]

id much rather have worse automatons that dont run off of silkflies

[eternal gazelle]

the thing that hornet draws attention to about pharloom's technological progression over hallownest is their metalworking scene

[ancient sinew]

In any case Hallownest also had elevators, trains, a fully automated mine, acid computers, soul computers, self reading soul tablets, and its infrastructure was way better (crossroads especially would’ve been a logistical nightmare to design) and the differences between it and Pharloom are due to a) it not needing shit like cogwork core or the slave robots and b) that technology being fucking evil rather than the latter being more advanced

[silk dirge]

yeah hallownest didnt have lava

[wintry flame]

forgedaughter remains the true bastion of innovation in pharloom

[silk dirge]

ballow my goat

[ancient sinew]

As Grover said attention is drawn to their metalworking scene

They weren’t more advanced in a general sense

Hallownest was also a functional society and its robots aren’t controlled by dead people

[silk dirge]

also whos more advanced doesnt matter when hallownest would beat the fuck out of fraudloom

[wintry flame]

a lot of pharloom's technological advancement stems from the need to build this giant music box. A lot of the tech we see in pharloom is built with the specific purpose of sustaining GMS's sleep

[ancient sinew]

They’re different aesthetically that’s not a very compelling argument

[silk dirge]

ogrim would solo like half the citadel

[ancient sinew]

read

[wintry flame]

it's like you see alien technology but all they can build is cellos

weavers were the tech wizards

[sweet shale]

the old kingdoms would kick hallownnests ass

[wintry flame]

i bet weavers can code in C++

[silk dirge]

oh hell nah

[ancient sinew]

uh… interesting conclusion

[wintry flame]

weavers built the code for eva in assembly

[silk dirge]

if transfem weaver theory is true that means they can code in rust probably

[sweet shale]

Also the weavers have literal railguns and teleporters so thats a point in their favor

[ancient sinew]

Pharloom’s metalwork isn’t attributed to silk magic, idk how the properties are meaningfully different in this context it also doesn’t matter because Hallownest tech wasn’t soul based

Hallownest doesn’t have an underground slave factory because it didn’t need one

[silk dirge]

i mean pk and the weavers both had teleporters

[ancient sinew]

It doesn’t have a cogwork core because it didn’t need one

[silk dirge]

the elevators in white palace are probably similar tech to the weavenest atla elevator

[wintry flame]

cogwork and underworks both exist due to necessity yeah pharloom kinda had to do all that to work

[ancient sinew]

Oh PK was certainly more skilled when it came to soul but he’s not part of the convo

[wintry flame]

i assume if pk had to he would also have built something in a similar fashion

[ancient sinew]

We were talking about general hallownest tech rather than WP specific shit

[wintry flame]

yeah

which is what i meant

pharloom's problems are mechanical while hallownest's are magical with all the evil gods roaming around

[sweet shale]

in that case we should probably discount the teleporters too because there weavenest specific

[ancient sinew]

Again Hallownest’s tech was built in order to improve people’s lives

[wintry flame]

if the pale king had to deal with gms he'd have her turned into a sweater by christmastime

[silk dirge]

i mean id assume the soul elevators to be real

the sawblades are dream defenses yeah

[ancient sinew]

I mean we know PK was an extremely skilled soul user so idk why that matters

They use soul not essence

[sweet shale]

they serve a function

theyre not useless

[ancient sinew]

Wrong

[silk dirge]

kingsoul probably means he was very good with soul

[sinful nimbus]

His children are all soul mages

[ancient sinew]

THK wasn’t trained in WP using sawblades

Also the sawblades are debatably abstract, their clear purpose was to prevent people from getting to PK

[silk dirge]

the sawblades have a pretty clear explanation which is dream defenses like inception to protect a core thought that being pk throne room

[ancient sinew]

A section that didn’t exist when THK was alive

[silk dirge]

i mean the whole scene fades to essence after you watch it

[sinful nimbus]

Path of Pain is there to seal a memory

Also THK has no use for being trained in parkour

[ancient sinew]

Because the game tells us it’s a sealed memory? The Path of Pain is there to protect said memory, “to witness secrets sealed one must endure the harshest punishment”, it’s also clearly a representation of PK’s mental state. Moreover when THK would have been trained WP was entirely physical which doesn’t help your argument since you’d be claiming the sawblades elevators and everything else were there from the beginning lol

[silk dirge]

pk is lacking on the dream defenses tho whyd he go for sawblades instead of summoning a fucking train at you

[ancient sinew]

The entire palace is yes

Or rather influenced by it

Again this doesn’t actually help your argument

[sinful nimbus]

What do the soul elevators represent in PK's mental state

[silk dirge]

that is a kinda weird angle to think it at tho lol

[ancient sinew]

Occam’s razor or something

I don’t understand what you are trying to say

Read my message again

but regardless of how you interpret it the soul elevators and totems… exist

Whether PK added them in the dream or before still represents a degree of control over soul

I mean they’re all real

The dream expanse is real

PK is a powerful higher being whose mind is able to influence the expanse to such a degree

That does not change that the soul totems and elevators exist

”such a degree”

how you interpret that doesn’t matter as I already said

I don’t think it makes much sense to conclude the totems and elevators are reflections of his mental state but again even if we accept that to be the case it does not change the conclusion that he was a powerful soul user

We don’t see a lot of shit in WP outside WP

[sinful nimbus]

The soul totems are representations of the soul lost in the vessel project

The elevators are him reminiscing about his wyrm rocket days

[teal drift]

I think the entire existence of PoP indicates the palace is dreamlike in nature and reflects pk’s state of mind.

[ancient sinew]

As is Kingsoul presumably, but ultimately these things tell us something about the abilities of the being in question

[silk dirge]

what if silk soar was like the atla elevator

[sinful nimbus]

One less ability that uses silk specifically

[spark valve]

then it would be cool

[sinful nimbus]

Imo Silk Soar should take inspiration from spider ballooning

[silk dirge]

from what

[sinful nimbus]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballooning_(spider)

say that again..

[ancient sinew]

PK has soul tablets, his house has REAL soul elevators and soul totems irrespective of whether or not those were intentionally designed, his offspring are all powerful soul mages, he and his spouse created a charm that literally forms limitless soul, what even is kate’s point here? That PK wasn’t actually a good soul user but was just so incredibly powerful that he could manifest advanced soul tech into existence subconsciously?

[spark valve]

should use her dad's soul lightning to fly

[silk dirge]

thread storm.

[ancient sinew]

OH I FORGOT THE SOUL LIGHTNING

PK was the avatar

[sweet shale]

she hates her dad and wants nothing to do with him

[silk dirge]

wait pk had what

[spark valve]

if she was averse to using wyrm powers she wouldn't use crests

[ancient sinew]

Hornet can’t use the soul lightning because she sucks at using soul

[ancient sinew]

Wingmoulds are held together by little soul electomagnets

[silk dirge]

nice

[ancient sinew]

You might have to look at the sprites to see it clearly

[silk dirge]

nah i see it

[ancient sinew]

But Soul lightning is already an established power

[silk dirge]

i remember it i just didnt think of it until you mentioned it

[sinful nimbus]

Ew

[ancient sinew]

Apparently Wingsmoulds had rune etched shells

[sinful nimbus]

Keep the soulslop OUT of my silkslop thank you very much

[ancient sinew]

Oh right PK was also skilled when it came to soul runes

[spark valve]

I mean that was likely from hk alone they were definitely soul imbued in some capacity

[ancient sinew]

His seals and shit are way better than the clown ass weavers

[sinful nimbus]

Low bar

[ancient sinew]

Yes but now we know they use runes

As opposed to perhaps being imprinted

[silk dirge]

imagine getting your seal broken by a fucking butterfly or some shit

[sweet shale]

tbf hes a literal higher being

[sinful nimbus]

barely

[spark valve]

hornet just being able to break the slab rune cage

[silk dirge]

they dont make em like they used to

[ancient sinew]

Well some people seem averse to the idea that PK had any powers at all

[sinful nimbus]

Well

[ancient sinew]

tbf SS does undermine PK a whole lot

[sinful nimbus]

If he had soul powers he could presumably last in the abyss like GMS but he can't

[silk dirge]

abyss lighthouse explanation when

[sinful nimbus]

Which is pretty embarrassing as a deity who's reported to glow so bright it hurt to look at him

[ancient sinew]

He could last in the Abyss indefinitely because Void wouldn’t be able to touch him and if you mention the first light I will beat you up Star

[spark valve]

the abyss lighthouse is just using void's aversion to light to suppress it idk if there's much explanation needed

[sinful nimbus]

It is the first light yes

[silk dirge]

what purpose does the abyss lighthouse serve tho

[sinful nimbus]

Mfers were waffling on about "suicide or grief" for years

[silk dirge]

if pk was just going down there i dont think other bugs would be there to need that

[spark valve]

I mean he had void brought up would've needed to suppress it if he didn't want to do it personally

[silk dirge]

but like he has the aura

[spark valve]

with the lighthouse he could have servants do it for him

[silk dirge]

yeah probably

he sent like royal retainers to gather it

[ancient sinew]

Even if we take that at face value what it seems to be saying is that regular light still suppresses void it just doesn’t neutralize it in the way the flower appears to

[silk dirge]

there is one operating the lighthouse so that makes sense

[ancient sinew]

And PK’s light is also directly compared to the flower’s in HK

[sinful nimbus]

Don't care he still doesn't have any other means to resist the void

Did he even glow at all

He doesn't seem all that bright in cutscenes

[ancient sinew]

They’re both described as “pure” lights PK is just said to be much brighter than the flower was

[silk dirge]

random light source higher being assigned him a lamp

[ancient sinew]

PK is also likened to Radiance whose light does repel Void

[sinful nimbus]

Stop doing mental gymnastics he's said to not have any means of resisting the void

[spark valve]

ragebait

[sinful nimbus]

Other than the everblooms light that is

[ancient sinew]

ragebait

I do agree on one thing though

[sinful nimbus]

Everything I disagree with is ragebait

[silk dirge]

baitrage

[ancient sinew]

That’s my line

Maybe you’re learning

[spark valve]

wl is just saying that she and hornet have no other way to resist 🥱

[sinful nimbus]

???

[ancient sinew]

Obviously not that exact wording

[sinful nimbus]

WL was involved in Kingsoul too

[ancient sinew]

Anyway

[silk dirge]

what power does wl even have

[sinful nimbus]

Why are we using Kingsoul as evidence for soul powers if its clearly not true for WL

[ancient sinew]

WL isn’t a light in the way PK and Rad are she just glows faintly

WL probably does have soul powers

[spark valve]

she's just not as physically bright as pk

[ancient sinew]

She’s a pale being and she grows stuff

[silk dirge]

i wonder if like plants might have soul

[sinful nimbus]

Size shifting

[ancient sinew]

She’s also not described as a light in that way

[silk dirge]

that could make sense for wl

[ancient sinew]

They do

[spark valve]

they probably do, it's life force and you can get soul by striking them in both games

[ancient sinew]

But WL grows more than just plants

[silk dirge]

when do i get soul from cutting pale ferns

[sinful nimbus]

not a light guys 🥀

[ancient sinew]

fool eaters

[spark valve]

and gulkas

[silk dirge]

literally unplayable

[sweet shale]

i always thoulgt of her as more of a fungus

[ancient sinew]

Not in the way PK and Rad are lights

[spark valve]

small grasses probably just don't have enough or something (or it's gameplay because it would be pretty silly if you could gain soul for cutting grass)

[ancient sinew]

That’s not really talking about physical brightness

But physically PK is brighter than her

(and so is Rad)

[sinful nimbus]

...proof? She's always shown as glowing more

[ancient sinew]

I don’t think WL can repel Void in the way the lighthouse would

[sinful nimbus]

ofc because the family only has one mean to resisting void

[sweet shale]

i always thought it was cool how pk is a white light and radiance is a yellow light since yellow is more natural than white light

[ancient sinew]

Which is contrasted against the sickly unnatural orange infection because nature distorted blah blah blah

[limpid summit]

Hi silksongfan!!

[ancient sinew]

Hello appleegg!!

[limpid summit]

What do you want to talk about today

[ancient sinew]

Aesthetics ig

The "ugliness" of the sickly, sharp and bright orange infection is contrasted against the divine "beauty" of the Radiance. If Radiance is Nature, then the infection is Nature when it is twisted and repressed. The aesthetic mismatch is likely intentional - "how could something so divine create something so vile"

PK’s white light, like his goal of creating an eternal kingdom and means of doing so, are unnatural. He isn’t from here, his industry is not normal, and yet his light serves as a literal beacon of hope and free will

[limpid summit]

Maybe that element could be interpreted as coming out of PK’s “distortion” of nature

[ancient sinew]

Is free will natural? Perhaps not…

[limpid summit]

Not only did he literally subvert the natural order with his beacon but he also drew the moths away

[ancient sinew]

Perhaps Rad’s is another attempt at unity

[limpid summit]

Yes exactly

[limpid summit]

Bro is not bardoon 💔

[ancient sinew]

Very true

[sinful nimbus]

Enough pain has been born of his dominion...

[ancient sinew]

Interestingly irl moths demonstrate similar behaviour

Where they often prefer man made light to natural light

[silk dirge]

being annoying mfs who mess everything up?

except seer

shes cool

[sweet shale]

what did thistlewind do

[silk dirge]

he killed my family

[ancient sinew]

Thistlewind probably killed people

[charred nimbus]

White lady needs a urgent haircut

[charred nimbus]

That's true, i always think of how Markoth keeps throwing shit at me and coming to my direction at every time to kill me with contact damage on a radiant try when i see a real life moth being annoying and flying directly to my face

Team cherry was ON POINT

[vestal swan]

She's like one of those glow in the dark stickers that collects light and seems like they glow but not really

[vestal swan]

Yeah but this is cut so it doesn't really count

[vestal swan]

English does suck

[edgy nebula]

there shoulda been a super secret and tough platforming skip for moss mother

so that we could get peaceful judges

[silk dirge]

i mean youd also need a skip for bell beast

but that does exist its just kinda weird

[midnight zinc]

I find it hard to pick a favorite, I think they have different strengths. Thematically and atmosphere wise I prefer HK

[sterile jacinth]

Silk songs lore feels more accessible and i adore the religious and familial themes (plus its the game i played first so i might have a bias). I also think sk just has more diverse areas. Hk is a dead kingdom and sk is a dying one. I think they both accomplish what they’re going for very well

[vestal swan]

Hollow Knight has a lot of holes but silk song has a lot of contradictions, it's pretty balanced for me right now

[sterile jacinth]

I also like having a protagonist with… opinions and character lol

[limpid summit]

I felt as if HK was more consistent with its major themes, while SS is better at developing the smaller stories

[vestal swan]

A couple of lore fixes and silksong wins

[sterile jacinth]

No shade to the knight i think its very silly but i like how hornet actually speaks lol

[limpid summit]

But overall not to hate on SS but I do like HK’s cohesiveness more

Yeah exactly that’s a plus

Being able to have Hornet respond to the world around her creates lots of opportunities

[sterile jacinth]

-# hornet also feels better to control imo

[limpid summit]

even if her responses are occasionally less than desirable

[midnight zinc]

This is really funny actually. I think the only reason HK contradicts itself less is because it’s so vague.

[vestal swan]

Well yeah TK is not out there making assertions on things that they think they know, and the hunter is very obviously musing about most of the things in the journal. So it's gaps in knowledge, silksong has a bunch of people who think they know what they're talking about and characters who contradict themselves left and right

[limpid summit]

I think seeing the words higher being in game said by Hornet almost broke immersion for me but I think I was just used to HK’s less direct storytelling

[vestal swan]

I was so happy to see that, because otherwise it was about to be thrown out as an old Dev term

[limpid summit]

Now pale being I was actively unhappy to see

[sterile jacinth]

I like sk more direct lore it got me hooked faster than hk

[vestal swan]

Like you know the original game manual shit

Yeah pale showing up so many times got on my nerves

[silk dirge]

pale fern

[fathom hill]

also easier to not contradict when the lore is brand new, tc tried and failed to maintain ss story bits consistent with hk in some aspects and that creates confusion

[silk dirge]

idk if the community will ever move past coral gorge tho

[fathom hill]

the desire to this be a sequel and at the same time add new ideas youre bound to make some mistakes here and there

[silk dirge]

for me that will forever be a big sticking point

[sterile jacinth]

I mean thats why we’re here. Trying to understand the lore. I can appreciate not having EVERYTHING spelled out

[silk dirge]

even though ive accepted it

[fathom hill]

specially considering its two guys making the lore in a long time project

[midnight zinc]

Wait why? That term is used in HK by more than one character.

[silk dirge]

i mean i think its also worth considering tc arent writers they are game devs

[limpid summit]

It’s used in HK but not to refer to what it really means

[sterile jacinth]

I still think the writing is pretty well done

[midnight zinc]

True but I prefer all the retcons to the original versions, like Herrah being a weaver.

[silk dirge]

other games have like specific lore writing teams that are specialized in that

[limpid summit]

The only times higher being refers to actual higher beings are in AMAs and devnotes

[silk dirge]

like actual writers and shit

team cherry is just 3 dudes none of which have degrees in writing or whatever so i think for it to not be the best is fine by me

[fathom hill]

The knight having near to no characterization except for some places here and there I like, it makes sense for the first game but yeah hornet being able to ask questions is too nice for it

[silk dirge]

as long as everything else cooks and the writing isnt terrible its fine

silksong does need some writing fixes yeah but overall its really good

[limpid summit]

She says it in GMS’s journal entry? Idk where else

[midnight zinc]

Yes but it’s use in the king’s pass still means it’s a term bugs in universe used, and the purpose of those tablets being propaganda reinforces the idea that it’s typically understood that HB typically refers to godly beings.

[sterile jacinth]

I like silk song. I wouldnt be here otherwise lol

[fathom hill]

tk has some characterization but it was always muddled by if it was its own doing or the players doing, like is giving flowers something the knight would do, or something that we did?

The bond with hornet is canon however and i think thats beautiful

[limpid summit]

Most of the retcons lorewise I don’t have but I don’t like herrah being a weaver personally because I think it removes some agency from Deepnest society which sorely needed development while we already knew the Weavers were going to have a huge focus

[midnight zinc]

Both, same with it killing or sparing the nailsmith

[limpid summit]

The themes of motherhood could have worked equally well with the Weavers adopting Hornet into their culture

[limpid summit]

I mean canonically it’s TK cause we don’t exist

[silk dirge]

like i dont think tc could match like some large dev team with a writing team of people whove all written like 20 cosmic horror books or smth

[limpid summit]

That’s all TK

[sterile jacinth]

I think they tried but herrah didn’t want hornet getting corrupted by their lying and sneaky nature

[fathom hill]

Oh yeah some of them are great, but its bound to be contradicting is my point. But lets be honest, only that care abt consistency are nerds lmao most players wont even care for understanding ss story

[limpid summit]

“Daughter of hallownest” is not a tuff line

[silk dirge]

for me what matters is vibes

[vestal swan]

That's the only mention in game of the full proper term

Iirc

[midnight zinc]

As someone who reads a lot of fiction and fantasy specifically, the writing in both games is pretty refreshing because it’s so vague and confusing, most writers even in the gaming industry don’t know when to shut the fuck up and stop explaining things

[sterile jacinth]

I like how a lot of it is implied. Helps with the atmosphere

[silk dirge]

yeah i could see that

[midnight zinc]

Most people are vibes based consumers yes

[sterile jacinth]

Oh shush let us have fun

[lapis creek]

kingsoul

[vestal swan]

You can't explain things if you don't know what the fuck is going on

[fathom hill]

What im saying is, not everything that a character does may be canon to the story, would the knight be the kind to save or kill zote? bring flowers? save the nailsmith or fullfil his wish? all of these could paint wildly different characterizations

[midnight zinc]

I guess people see it as a “what are we, some kind of suicide squad?” moment, which I don’t agree with but whatever

[limpid summit]

It’s a marvel movie line yes

[lapis creek]

"No matter what happens, I will always be a Hollow Knight: Silksong"

[fathom hill]

While in ss Hornet says and justifies most of her actions so its more clear her stance and what she believes in and what her goals are etc

[limpid summit]

Hornet has more interesting dialogue than her aura farming

Example: “It is a difficult thing to explain simply. A test was needed”

[sterile jacinth]

Let her aura farm she deserves it

[limpid summit]

No she doesn’t she is a fraud

[vestal swan]

Y'all realize the stuff y'all call marvel movie lines is basically just Shakespearean put into an action scenario?

[midnight zinc]

True, but a lot of the best stories written don’t have answers even from the authors for certain questions.

[limpid summit]

She is a genuine fraud

[sterile jacinth]

alr ok ill let you believe that

[limpid summit]

No let me explain

[silk dirge]

yeah thats why its bad ive only read like 2 shakespeare plays and those are enough for me

[limpid summit]

She kills Vessels not just to prevent them from reaching THK but also to let the past die

[lapis creek]

wasnt shakespeare also partially aiming for mass appeal

[midnight zinc]

I’ve read several Shakespeare plays: this is some cap

[lapis creek]

idk im not an english

[limpid summit]

But she only farms weak vessels it’s not like she’s taking down people like SM or TL who contributed to Hallownest’s fall

She picks her battles

[sterile jacinth]

The vessels literally threaten to open the black egg and so therefore pose more of a threat

[silk dirge]

maybe i only hate shakespeare bc ap lit is a fucking awful class

[sterile jacinth]

I know lol. I love hornet

[silk dirge]

i somehow did well in it

[midnight zinc]

I loved the scene where Hamlet dies and as his best friend holds him, he says “what is this, a tragedy?”

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah thats probably why. If you read it on your own time you’ll probably enjoy it more

[silk dirge]

but i did not enjoy that class at all

[limpid summit]

Ap lit wasnt that bad

[silk dirge]

its teacher dependent for sure

[fathom hill]

which daughter of hallownest line?

[limpid summit]

Anyway

[fathom hill]

fuck did i miss aura

ill die

[lapis creek]

i loved the scene where the king is praying and then goes "erm, he's right behind me, isn't he?"

[silk dirge]

luckily i only need to take one english class for my major which is a writing class and different ones have different themes so my plan is pick some video game one and write silksong fanon for it

[limpid summit]

Say the line hornetjak

[sterile jacinth]

Hornet is such a cool character i really like her

[midnight zinc]

Hornet clearly inherited her aura farming from her dad, cuz holy shit every scene he’s in he’s posing for a flick

[fathom hill]

Thats what im saying, the players actions and hornets actions coincide more nicely just cuz Hornet can actually express them and reference it

[fathom hill]

I like her a lot too, shes great

oh so she does name drop hallownest, good to know

[midnight zinc]

Abyss escape: back turned to seem nonchalant
POP memory: back turned to seem nonchalant, family pick for the Gram
Even as he’s dead lying on his throne, he still has a hard oneliner

[sterile jacinth]

I imagine her taking lace to hallownest for whatever reason and lace is like wow your house is shit

[fathom hill]

damn bitch you live like this and its just deepnest

[sterile jacinth]

Lmao yea

[silk dirge]

"damn this is your dad?"

[sterile jacinth]

It feels nice to see hornet grow as a character

[sterile jacinth]

“was” -_-

[midnight zinc]

Too much void, send that shit to Pharloom

Hornet your dad sucks

Lace stfu

[sterile jacinth]

I didn’t even play hk at that point and i thought red memory was cool

[limpid summit]

Namedropping Hallownest is perfectly fine

The way she says it is just funny

[fathom hill]

It doesnt bother me, i just always thought they never referenced by name to fancy new players or just to separate it a bit more until act 3

[sterile jacinth]

Rip hornet still clinging to the memory of a corpse

Yeah she’s got a tough exterior but grows to really care about the people of pharloom

[silk dirge]

grub of the mossy and massive variety

[fathom hill]

my fav characterization its how she laments not having the time to practice skipping through water so she notes to do it after everything is done or something like that

[sterile jacinth]

Dw im playing through it now lol

[fathom hill]

thats so funny

[silk dirge]

hornet: become jesus

[sterile jacinth]

Girl is traumatized give her a break lol

[lapis creek]

idk it just kind of takes me out of it that she says the name of the song

[fathom hill]

also liking fluffly things and wanting to have wings, having memories of jumping over some critters as a younging all may reference the hive and i think thats fun too

[lapis creek]

i mean it doesnt really the experience was still intact but it's goofy

[sterile jacinth]

Vespa teaching her bee fighting and starts flying while hornet is just |:/

[fathom hill]

responsible pet having btw

[lapis creek]

no

[limpid summit]

Quirrel outside of the Archive like “this gonna be a Decisive Battle”

[lapis creek]

i actually didnt know any of the names of the songs in the soundtrack the first time i played silksong

[fathom hill]

i spoiled myself sister of the void i remember

[lapis creek]

yeah i didnt do that

[silk dirge]

hornet outside of black egg temple be like "get ready for sealed vessel"

[vestal swan]

?

[fathom hill]

that was my fault though since i was indeed told that the soundtrack had spoilers lmao

[silk dirge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5_nMrARi-k

[sterile jacinth]

Got lost lace spoiled for me 😔
Still one of my favorite fights tho

[sinful nimbus]

Silksong spoilers and leaks were doing gods work by making sure I didn't get hyped for the story 🙏

[vestal swan]

Ah lol

[fathom hill]

her ass cant stop aura farming

[vestal swan]

I don't even see how that would be a spoiler though?

[limpid summit]

Let me take one last dive

[silk dirge]

me when i lose a shoelace

[lapis creek]

but even so if sherma calls her red maiden and the song is called red maiden then possibly the song is named after an event in the game, like these things generally are

[sterile jacinth]

God damn it i hate fighting my shoelaces

[sinful nimbus]

The song is named after the quest that's not weird

[fathom hill]

i wonder of it would have been if it actually triggered for just 2 seconds the theme though

[silk dirge]

my shoelaces are possesed by the void

[fathom hill]

corny as shit lmao

[lapis creek]

my point is i dont think this was the place for a cute reference to past content

[fathom hill]

still would have pogged though idc

[sterile jacinth]

[spark valve]

2 mask damage and half a dozen annoying attacks

[lapis creek]

the feeling of "oh i get it" doesn't contribute to the actual scene

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet might as well have said "Its Silksonging time!" and it'd have the same impact as daughter of hallownest

[lapis creek]

i made this joke before

obviously one is worse

[spark valve]

I mean at least that one wouldn't sound like it was taking itself seriously

[sterile jacinth]

I like what we got. I dont think there’s anything wrong with having some fan service

[fathom hill]

the whole red memory section is fanservice and i wouldnt have it any other way imo

[limpid summit]

But she spends the whole game disconnecting herself from everything Hallownest

[sterile jacinth]

She talks about it and how it affected her

[limpid summit]

My favorite fanservice is skynx

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet insulted PK like 10 minutes ago lmao

[lapis creek]

i think it's pretty unlikely that they just forgot that was the name of one of their songs

[sinful nimbus]

Did they expect us to forget

[spark valve]

skynx and nyleth are fine

[sinful nimbus]

Nyleth is not fine

[spark valve]

nyleth is fine

[limpid summit]

Replace Nyleth with Nuu

[sinful nimbus]

She has such a wonderful Voice...

[limpid summit]

Nuu is peak fanservice

[silk dirge]

nyleth and isma is like barely fan service tbh

[spark valve]

the seth rewrites suck but nyleth is still fine

[sterile jacinth]

Nuu is the fans 😔

[limpid summit]

I think nyleth isma is fine fanservice

[fathom hill]

im sure thats just how it ties with her own character development, the game is too mostly about letting go on what you were meant to do and be able to find a purpose outside of it

[spark valve]

seth in final game is uh real bad

[sinful nimbus]

Well I'm not opposed to an Isma type creature returning but unfortunately its an old heart

[fathom hill]

I wonder what Hornet opinion would be at the end of act 3 regarding the daughter of hallownest line

[sterile jacinth]

Yea it obviously still affects her. And she talks about how she wont stand watch over another dead kingdom

[limpid summit]

I also liked Groal as a SM ref but he was essentially just SM at that point

[sinful nimbus]

Groal pmo

[spark valve]

they even copied sm having an abnormally bad runback

[sterile jacinth]

Sm?

[limpid summit]

Lowtiergroal brags about new soul powers like a full chamber won’t send him back to section 8 bilewater housing

[sinful nimbus]

Soul Master

[silk dirge]

what

wtf is section 8 bilewater housing

[sterile jacinth]

Groal and sm serve different purposes lol. I think besides being connected to soul they dont share many similarities

[limpid summit]

Fat

Captured snail shaman to gain spell for themselves

[sterile jacinth]

True actually

[limpid summit]

Megalomaniacal

[sterile jacinth]

Story wise not really

[limpid summit]

I don’t even think Groal is a good power corrupts metaphor because the inclination is to laugh at him

[sinful nimbus]

The thematics are fine

[sterile jacinth]

I think they can exist simultaneously

[limpid summit]

That’s fair

[sinful nimbus]

But the actual mechanism being a ripoff off a previous idea is um 🥴

[limpid summit]

But I think False Knight does something like that better

It’s funny but still poignant

[spark valve]

this is like saying the slabflies are a bad example of victims becoming perpetrators because they smell bad

[sinful nimbus]

Bro just stirring the pot

[limpid summit]

I can’t take Groal seriously even after “Our hate is forever” (if you were looking for genuinely hard lines that’s pretty good)

[sterile jacinth]

Ah shit here comes the racism arguments again

[limpid summit]

Well Lilly I wasn’t gonna do it but here we go

[sterile jacinth]

God damn it

[spark valve]

it's not a racism argument it's just basic media literacy regarding what the point of the slabflies is

[limpid summit]

Slash j

I think all of us here at this moment agree

[sinful nimbus]

Fill your hearts with hate, for power has now been claimed, and
with it we shall punish 🥶

[spark valve]

groal can be a bit goofy and still an example of power corrupting

[lapis creek]

i like groal i think they cooked

[limpid summit]

I just don’t mess

[spark valve]

groal is fine narratively

[limpid summit]

Although it fuels My yes MY Myla’s song

So I have to throw Groal that bone

[vestal swan]

Groal didn't even seem like a power corrupts power hungry asshole until you look at the needolin lines, The vibes I got from the whole thing was revolutionaries trying to go against the kingdom next door, and just not trusting anybody with more power than he has so he killed the pinstress and the shaman

[sterile jacinth]

I think you can be both a revolutionary and extremely power hungry

[lapis creek]

i wonder if this has ever happened

[vestal swan]

But he didn't come off like a power-hungry idiot like soulmaster did

[limpid summit]

I thought the implication was that the pinstresses were stilkin

[sterile jacinth]

Groal is a pretty selfish character even with all of the suffering he went through with bilewater

[spark valve]

surely nobody has ever been driven by legitimate grievances into becoming evil

it's not like that's a thing that happens

[limpid summit]

Yeah that’s the thing I liked it until the Needolin dialogue

[sinful nimbus]

Surely that hasn't happened in this universe

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah there’s a reason for his anger but it does not justify his selfishness

[limpid summit]

Groal could have said something way more interesting even as a corrupted villain but his NDD is sort of one note

[sinful nimbus]

Groal kills people for no reason bro is obviously evil 😭 😭

[sterile jacinth]

This actually never ever happens idk what youre talking about /j

[sinful nimbus]

Y'all got any interesting NDD

[fathom hill]

Dont the pintresses say that they are sisters but not by blood or something? or am i trippin

[sinful nimbus]

Yes

[fathom hill]

only by clan alone or something

[sinful nimbus]

But they are all the same species

[vestal swan]

NDD?

[sinful nimbus]

They're also presumably craws

[spark valve]

craws

[fathom hill]

are they?

[vestal swan]

Nedodin dialouge?

[lapis creek]

yeah they seem more like craws

[spark valve]

they don't really look like stilkin one just has a similar getup to them

[sinful nimbus]

They look so yeah

[lapis creek]

brother had to invent a third D

[sinful nimbus]

They all have the black beak and the same shell type

[silk dirge]

"Hate for their light. Hate for their pins. For their waste poured
thick and endless.
Fill your hearts with hate, for power has now been claimed, and
with it we shall punish. " 🖋️ 🔥

[limpid summit]

Am I tweaking how the hell are they craws

[sinful nimbus]

Pinstress literally sings CACAAW

[spark valve]

craw balloons, pinstress's pin throwing

[sinful nimbus]

Same body type as well

[lapis creek]

pinstress sings strive i honestly think thats so cool

[eternal gazelle]

Somebody post the dead tallcraw next to fallen pinstress

[limpid summit]

pinstress’s pin throwing

[vestal swan]

Craws pinstreses and stilkin have similar bodies and faces, they could all be bird adjacent but not necessarily related

[sinful nimbus]

Laaaame

[sterile jacinth]

I like Groal for what he is. Someone who’s been wronged and is still a horrible person lol

[sinful nimbus]

Again?🥀

[eternal gazelle]

You know Stilkin do have the jackass craw hops

Just stuck to the ground

[lapis creek]

can craws swim

[limpid summit]

Okay I do think the Nailmasters >>>>> the Pinstress Order

But Pinstress is great for what she is

[lapis creek]

they do have 3x as much aura

[spark valve]

nailmasters have more payoff

[sinful nimbus]

Its kinda hard to beat Sly

[lapis creek]

i like seamstress

[sinful nimbus]

Seamstress is a jerk

[lapis creek]

she cant kill a chorus but honestly shes fun

[limpid summit]

I don’t like seamstress why does Gilly have more dialogue than her

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah the pinstressess dont have yuri

[fathom hill]

we get like characterization for the pintresses tbf

[spark valve]

seamstress is okay exposition dumper for some reason

[fathom hill]

plus one of them is just dead

[sinful nimbus]

Gurr's daughter being fleshed out seems fine

[snow sonnet]

Seamstress needs more interactions

[sterile jacinth]

She does kind of want to be left alone and not targeted by the citadel so i understand

[lapis creek]

i like that seamstress actually gets mad at hornet for act 3

thats good

[vestal swan]

They intentionally avoid the water but I don't think I ever managed to make one fall in so I can't say for certain but I'm going to say no

[fathom hill]

hornet forgiving one of them her life is close

[sinful nimbus]

Well I'm always happy to see Hornet hated on but she's not really responsible

[fathom hill]

but yeah mostly nothin

[sterile jacinth]

Could you rephrase?

[limpid summit]

Why does the Scarecraw scare the craws

[spark valve]

all lace's fault

[sinful nimbus]

Seamstress also says you should try finding non-violent solutions which is annoying af

Bro think she playing undertale 🥀

[sterile jacinth]

I would be scared if someone made a statue made of human skin

[fathom hill]

hornet sparing one of them is close

[lapis creek]

i mean she kind of is in a way

[vestal swan]

Imagine one of the DLCs we actually get the peaceful route back

[sterile jacinth]

Oh yeah i do like that. The fight wasn’t my favorite but it was some good story

[vestal swan]

Playing music and using non-lethal tools to get past bosses

[lapis creek]

like maybe she was out of options but she still didnt even try to figure out how the snare worked and now people are dying

[sinful nimbus]

the heck are non-lethal tools cuh

[limpid summit]

Snare Setter

[sinful nimbus]

You want some tranq bombs?

[vestal swan]

A knockout gas grenade or some shit

[limpid summit]

She just wanted you to void everything

[spark valve]

she was on a time crunch presumably and it's not like the snare was actually a bad plan

[sterile jacinth]

I dont think she anticipated the freaking void to happen

[fathom hill]

sleep darts

[limpid summit]

Why do the regular Craw Jurors have the metal beak but not the other ones

[eternal gazelle]

They attack with it

[lapis creek]

yeah but she didnt even try to figure out how it worked

[sterile jacinth]

Might be a sign of status

[sterile jacinth]

Not a lot of gods to try it out on ngl

[spark valve]

she doesn't really need to know that though?

[vestal swan]

Or just you know appropriate some of the giant traps that are laying around and escape while they're inside, hornet starts off in a cage she can get caught by the slab she can get caught by the skar, she can get caught in the rat traps and the mite traps, never once does she develop her own trap to slow down an enemy or capture them. She always goes lethal

[lapis creek]

it's not like she was deceived she just rushed headlong into the final battle on the word of people she had just met

[spark valve]

who were trustworthy

[sterile jacinth]

The shamans did lie to her too

[spark valve]

they didn't

[vestal swan]

They expected her to know shit

[sterile jacinth]

They lied about being snail shamans

[sinful nimbus]

the snail shamans legit did nothing wrong

[vestal swan]

They never lied about it?

[spark valve]

they were hiding from gms and were not lying to gms about their nature

[vestal swan]

She never said are you a snail and they said no

[sterile jacinth]

They didn’t confirm nor deny but they were notably sneaky about it

[limpid summit]

It was genuinely all Lace’s fault

[lapis creek]

she seems upset by the outcome i think she wishes she had looked into it

[spark valve]

they even realized she knew what they were and just rolled with it because, again, they weren't trying to trick her

[limpid summit]

But TC wrote around that because we have to save her

[eternal gazelle]

She said "I know you're a snail" and he said "Alright yeah but you're not supposed to say that"

[vestal swan]

No she basically pulled the Twilight line

[sterile jacinth]

Ah ok

[sinful nimbus]

read the room hornet smh

[spark valve]

Hornet: I could say the same for you, who still chooses to remain cowled. You continue to pose as only a simple pilgrim. Don't you think it's past time you ceased the performance?
Leave off, Old One! Permit a bug their small disguise! It's been a pleasant thing to play simple. And I weren't calling for change, even if you seem insistent on bringing it!

[vestal swan]

"I know what you are"
"Say it"
Doesn't say it

[lapis creek]

also unless lace is completely delusional (which is possible), her denying gms hornet's "silken strength" was important to her defeat in the cradle

[sterile jacinth]

I think all of them were kind of desperate. I dont think they knew the freaking VOID would show up

[sinful nimbus]

"I weren't calling for change"

[fathom hill]

The snail shamas withheld info to Hornet, and that almost costed her life

[spark valve]

they did know that the snare is a portal to abyss

[sterile jacinth]

Yes this

[sinful nimbus]

Thats fine

[wintry flame]

daughter?

[snow sonnet]

After years of speculating whether chapel maid/caretaker are snail shamans are not this was incredibly funny to read lol

[sinful nimbus]

First of all its GMS who grabbed Hornet which the shamans couldn't have foreseen second of all Hornet dying would be great news to be celebrated

[snow sonnet]

I love Caretaker

[fathom hill]

Lace did rebel and that rebellion did take lives, Hornet herself confronts her abt it, but she also saved Hornet in that process