sk-lore

[vestal swan]

Cut so it doesn't matter

[silk dirge]

yeah but its interesting

[edgy nebula]

pretty sure she was a being grown from the growstone and then compressed into the gem that powers the steelheart, thats my theory atleast

[craggy smelt]

I joked about her being compressed radiance
but she does differentiate herself from Hornet ("especially you higher") so I don't think she was ever some kind of pale being

[humble peak]

Hallownest was meant to last forever, so maybe eventually it would have been the last one, in theory

but like apparently every kingdom means to last forever so

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah that’s true. Pk tried to make something that would last forever and that was one of his many flaws

[midnight zinc]

But she says she herself has suffered "compression". This is so vague but has such huge implications that there's no way they don't follow up on it, right? Right? Please team cherry explain this im begging

[craggy smelt]

I do like the angle that it was more aspirational propaganda rather than an outright lie

[humble peak]

yeah

[dawn sluice]

maybe their shells are less of a willing thing and more of a prison

[edgy nebula]

it's likely tc never makes a hk game again but if some of the hk stuff and sk stuff doesnt get explained i might just riot

[dawn sluice]

unless a dlc gets too big

[vestal swan]

But outright lie fits fraud watch

[sterile jacinth]

Yea bro still lied

[craggy smelt]

yeah, she's definitely undergone it... it brings to mind an image of an entity being crushed down, maybe crushed into these steel bodies to be changed into a steel heart
and either pale beings are either especially vulnerable to this or more likely to be targeted with it for some reason

[edgy nebula]

"yeah so we were working on a lace dlc but shes just too big for silksong... sooooo..."

[sterile jacinth]

I wonder if that’s a retcon…

[foggy fractal]

ok I posted it in art gallery
Retconsong is real !!!

[dawn sluice]

hallownest lasting forever makes sense when you look at how horrible other cities are

[midnight zinc]

Yeah she said she's "bound by ore forever". Doesnt sound willing.

[sterile jacinth]

Pk tried his best…

[orchid pine]

So here’s a thought. You guys know how everything in the wastes loses their thoughts so to speak, and become pretty primal in their nature? Well, from what we know, Kingdoms are destined to fall, but what if Kingdoms are the only thing that prevent the effect of the wastes?

[orchid pine]

For whatever reason

[sterile jacinth]

Your fake screenshots look so cool you’re good at this holy shit

[dawn sluice]

what if the steel city is a rare example of a kingdom started not by a higher being, but started by lesser bugs who naturally have mind

[midnight zinc]

The inner fan service enjoyer inside me wants that to be why all the other wyrms are dead even though that doesnt really make a lot of sense.

[craggy smelt]

I do think it would be interesting if the Steel Masters aren't actually higher beings, but bugs who have just figured all kinds of shit out

[humble peak]

maybe compression just means they make you wear skinny jeans for like a week

[sterile jacinth]

That would be so interesting

[silk dirge]

the fake screenshot does look good but where tf are the pixels 😭

[foggy fractal]

gone

[dawn sluice]

yeah, my friend thought about how kingdoms are almost always started by higher beings and then thought "hey what if they werent"

[dawn sluice]

give

[silk dirge]

#hk-art-gallery

[foggy fractal]

if I had it high quality it wouldn't look as real because it doesn't actually look as good as ari's
but if I reduce the quality than your mind just assumes when the quality is high it would look good as ari's

[dawn sluice]

no i took the pixels

[sterile jacinth]

Seeing how much trouble hbs cause it wouldn’t be a stretch to assume some regular bugs got fed up with their bullshit

[dawn sluice]

they give

[silk dirge]

big brain

[midnight zinc]

That's kind of what ive always assumed, i dont really get HB vibes from how they're talked about, it sounds a lot creepier than that.

[humble peak]

would there be many regular bugs who are able to know about more than 1 higher being's bullshit?

[dawn sluice]

"man im tired of this higher being, time to go to a different kingdom"
"are you kidding me"

[sterile jacinth]

I think after a ton of generations and amassed power yea

[craggy smelt]

there being an entire group of steel masters makes me wonder
certainly pale beings aren't described as getting along that well (PK and WL are apparently a rare exception)
other powerful beings we see are solitary

[humble peak]

I feel like most regular bugs who experience a higher being's bullshit just kinda die

[sterile jacinth]

Well they would just know of it. If you have a big enough army you can kill god

[silk dirge]

do normal bugs even have a concept of higher beings

[midnight zinc]

I'd assume not only because I think all of the kingdoms in this world are much further apart than is feasible for must bugs to travel

[silk dirge]

like i would imagine a random pilgrim does not know what a higher being is

[humble peak]

the way Lace talks in the act 2 intro makes it sound like not

[dawn sluice]

maybe its a thing of 'they're so powerful they don't need to work with eachother, only making lesser bugs into a kingdom'

[sterile jacinth]

Not random pilgrims but I bet bugs in city of steel do

[solid cypress]

Pale King is so peak, so peak. Our charming king isn't anti-social, handsome and kind.

[onyx olive]

could godhome possibly be connected to pharloom

[humble peak]

how?

[solid cypress]

https://tenor.com/view/pale-king-hollow-knight-pale-king-picmix-hollow-knight-picmix-conditionercat-gif-4864131921420945817

[sterile jacinth]

Bro saw things were going to shit and retreated into a dream and died </3

[onyx olive]

despite its destruction in the pantheon 5 endings

[sterile jacinth]

That’s the most antisocial thing ever

[craggy smelt]

maybe if a Godseeker went there

[midnight zinc]

They definitely act like tyrants too, so if they're normal bugs with insane technology then they've made themselves so powerful that they're able to exert the same amount of control over the world as gods. And it seems like their longevity is even greater.

[edgy nebula]

cant wait for the totally real coral gorge dlc

[sterile jacinth]

From one type of tyranny to another

[humble peak]

so it goes

[solid cypress]

He foresaw everything was ending, he retreated to keep safe King Soul Fragment

[dawn sluice]

maybe steel masters were a group of villages who werent quite all the same species
so they made a meritocracy and then started compressing disobedient people to give them a sense of "sameness" and "conformity"

[onyx olive]

but would it make sense is what im asking because silksong probably takes place after either dream no more or embrace the void

[sterile jacinth]

I don’t think there are more godseekers

[humble peak]

what are you even asking
what does "connected to pharloom" mean

[craggy smelt]

probably not, it's suggested that only one Godseeker exists, who held the rest in her mind and traveled to Hallownest

[sterile jacinth]

I think their plan was in vain

[solid cypress]

https://tenor.com/view/pale-king-hollow-knight-gun-gif-27385612

[humble peak]

do we not see the "no memes" rule in this channel

[dawn sluice]

this makes sense considering how xenophobic villages are and how unlike kingdoms, villages typically have normal bugs and not higher beings as rulers

[onyx olive]

so either way the godseeker would still be dormant (dream no more) or consumed by the void (embrace the void)

speed i need this dlc 🥺

[dawn sluice]

yeah so godseekers are doomed to do nothing

or die

[sterile jacinth]

Their plan is doomed they’re dead

[craggy smelt]

yeah, there's no really any way for them to reach Pharloom
a 'Godhome'-style DLC will probably come, but it won't be Godseeker themed
just a 'Hall of Bosses' style thing - maybe a return to Hornet's memory, to re-fight all her old duels

[solid cypress]

Team Cherry will just send in another group of godseekers that use music to tune gods instead

[dawn sluice]

rainbow memory

[dawn sluice]

literal tuning

[solid cypress]

Symphony Of Pharloom

[craggy smelt]

Hornet would hate that

[humble peak]

homophobic Pale girls

[edgy nebula]

i wonder, has jaspal boodram's fiance made another reddit post about sharpe?

[craggy smelt]

I thought Memorium was going to be it when I first found it
(it wasn't ofc)

[sterile jacinth]

It?

[craggy smelt]

Hall of Bosses

[solid cypress]

Lesbian memorium?

[edgy nebula]

memorium makes my head hurt in relations to karak lore

[solid cypress]

SYMPHONY OF PHARLOOM

[dawn sluice]

i wonder if there was a normal bug ever skilled enough to somehow "ascend" to higher being status

[craggy smelt]

honestly not a bad name for it

[solid cypress]

I cracked TC's office, it's the official name

[dawn sluice]

considering karmelita's existence

[sterile jacinth]

Doubt it

[sterile jacinth]

Karm ages and dies. She’s just a powerful bug

[edgy nebula]

none of the successors are higher beings

[solid cypress]

Fourth Chorus's Godhome name is Reprised Chorus

[humble peak]

I don't think we have a solid enough definition of "higher being" to determine this
But what we do know seems to lean towards "no"

[craggy smelt]

instead of ascended bosses, we get mashups
Fourth Chorus + Savage Beastfly
Cogwork Dancers + Clover Dancers
Lace + Phantom

[dawn sluice]

i knew
it made me wonder the ceiling of a mortal bug's potential, if a mortal bug could contend with half a higher being in her prime, and have a voice thats good enough to resist the haunting

[solid cypress]

SISTERS OF SILK

[humble peak]

Fourth Chorus + Savage Beastfly
Cogwork Dancers + Savage Beastfly
Lace + Savage Beastfly

[dawn sluice]

savage beastfly squared

[onyx olive]

elegy of the deep in a certain area that unlocks hornet’s past memories so maybe we can see what she did before the events of hk ✍️🔥

[sterile jacinth]

I think there’s potential for a regular bug to reach the skill level of a hb but they’re still not really on the same level

[sterile jacinth]

Never cook again 🔥

[craggy smelt]

Savage Beastflies x 3: Sisters of Beastflies

[dawn sluice]

also you misread again 60 minutes with grandma silk 🔥

[onyx olive]

what if ascended+ groal the great FORCED an entire runback for every single fight

[midnight zinc]

I know the conversation has moved on but Sula, Zi's vassal, seems to also be subjected to an "eternal" vigil, even though she's a mortal bug, that's why she summons the void, to gain more strength. "To watch, watch these lands dying, slow, the bugs suffering, falling, while our shell sustains... The steelhearts feel so little... but we forced to serve, we endure it all. We alone. Why?". It seems like the steel clan sends bugs to observe kingdoms, to dying kingdoms, for... reasons? And their specific connection to the void is unclear, it was very much not something the masters wanted for Sula to summon it, yet she still knows how to do it, somewhat like Jiji from the first game. So they have knowledge of the void and can summon it but they do not like the void generally, and dont play with it recklessly like the shamans do in Pharloom. But it's interesting that they send people on eternal vigils to dying kingdoms, almost like Mister Mushroom, for some unclear reason. Also Sula mentions fleeing the masters' sight, which Hornet is aware of and knows how far and wide it is. Sula also mentions escaping "the spires", presumably of the City of Steel. But she also mentions escaping "and beneath", which is interesting since one of the weavers the citadel caught was beneath the City of Steel, so there's potentially something going on beneath the city involving the vassals of the steel clan. Sinister shit.

Sorry for the wall of text

[solid cypress]

https://tenor.com/view/yes-wow-yes-ya-i-understand-hollow-knight-lil-stinkers-nodding-gif-26055915

[humble peak]

"Experience tells me even gods can fall" is a pretty funny line when you consider that the only gods we know to have fallen were fell by other gods

[craggy smelt]

one thought about this I had...
In HK, the hunter's notes on Follies mentions that they hope their brothers would build they new bodies
that always struck me as an interesting idea... maybe using Soul to sculpt an entire new body? would that work?
how powerful could you make it...?

[solid cypress]

Hornet is a demigod so I guess it applies

[sterile jacinth]

I’d kind of assume city of steel will fix that

[dawn sluice]

i mean silk could make lace
maybe soul just needs to be refined like silk to make a body

[craggy smelt]

that's true~!

[solid cypress]

Hype

[dawn sluice]

soulmaster also repieced himself together after blowing up

[craggy smelt]

yeah, SM managed to hoard more Soul than anyone without collapsing like the Follies

maybe that's a path a bug could take to HB-ness

[edgy nebula]

obligatory "groal does not misuse soul"

[dawn sluice]

maybe thats because he was incredibly skilled at using it
he was a
soul master

[dawn sluice]

groul

[humble peak]

Sula does have some metallic elements to their design, maybe they're not entirely a normal mortal bug

[solid cypress]

ALL ANSWERED IN: Hollow Knight: Steel City

[humble peak]

also ngl I never drew the connection of Sula and Jiji both summoning void...

[midnight zinc]

Oh and I forgot, combine all of this with the fact that Jinn in the first game said that the knight with the Voidheart reminded her of her Masters, which combined with everything we learned in Silksong, is even more insane than it was back then. Whatever the masters have going on is way more dangerous than a vengeful god in my opinion.

[dawn sluice]

what if he just started taking a kingdom's worth of soul

[midnight zinc]

Maybe not, but she seems to see herself as separate from the steel beings: "But the seer knows nothing! Nothing of the pain. All small Sula's to bear... To watch, watch these lands dying, slow, the bugs suffering, falling, while our shell sustains... The steelhearts feel so little... but we forced to serve, we endure it all. We alone. Why?"

[humble peak]

Steel dudes definitely have some void shit going on
Might be something similar to the void constructs of the pale king

[sterile jacinth]

Misusing void never ends up good

[onyx olive]

how did nyleth die

[humble peak]

hornet killed her

[craggy smelt]

you mean what if he did the thing he did?

[midnight zinc]

I'd wager its something a lot grander, considering their servants have way more control of the void than the PK did

[onyx olive]

in the memory of her own statue? 😭💔

[dawn sluice]

well considering all of hallownest isnt dead he clearly failed

[humble peak]

yeah
There's textual evidence Nyleth is just "sleeping" until that point

[sterile jacinth]

I think she finished her off but she was significantly weaker than she was at her prime

[onyx olive]

thats karmelita

[sterile jacinth]

Both

[solid cypress]

Maybe their master is a higher being thriving on sufferings and regrets. And maybe these watchers carry with them something that lets the master consume these regrets/pain from afar, building up to a higher being similar to Shade Lord?

[craggy smelt]

using Sharpe's design is fraught since they're still not officially in-game, but they aren't fully steel either
is it just armor? maybe they're still in the process of becoming a steelheart?

[dawn sluice]

all of the nature higher beings really get the short end of the stick compared to the light and dark higher beings

[onyx olive]

i just saw her statue and though “oh maybe it’s just a memorial” similar to how crust king khann’s corpse is just chilling in the tower

[edgy nebula]

khann is probably the best successor

[dawn sluice]

they blended her up and put her in a statue

[onyx olive]

shit pisses me off bro 😭 nyleth was thematically my second favorite fight

[humble peak]

? there's no textual evidence that Nyleth is a higher being

[edgy nebula]

nyleth afaik isnt a hb

[solid cypress]

Nyleth is a higher being?

[dawn sluice]

nyleth and unn are weak and cant do anything compared to pale king, radiance, and the SHADE LORD who just get to chill (for a moment)

[onyx olive]

she was just the heart of the forest

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah I don’t think she is

[solid cypress]

Unn can dream life into existence

[onyx olive]

like thats comparing a PLANT to a god with influence

[humble peak]

It's so weird that dreams aren't mentioned at all in silksong

[onyx olive]

probably because the radiance’s influence never reached that area

[craggy smelt]

Nyleth's feat in creating the life of Shellwood is pretty impressive, akin to Unn creating the life of Greenpath
I just don't know if they qualify

[humble peak]

radiance didn't invent dreams?

[dawn sluice]

even in the realm of memory, which should go nicely together with dream

[onyx olive]

plus it would conflict with silksongs theme of faith and haunting

[midnight zinc]

The watchers are called "steelhearts", but the masters, while they are likely in the city of steel, I dont think they've directly been referred to as "steel" beings. Maybe I'm overthinking things and they are, but I think it'd be interesting if they weren't steel themselves, and the steelhearts like Zi and Jinn were just advanced constructs of their own design that are somehow way more advanced than anything the Pale King made in his workshop or that the Pharloom Architects made.

[solid cypress]

Doesn't the elegy of the deep reach the same dream dimension?

[sterile jacinth]

Nyleth didn’t create sentient life

[onyx olive]

there was inherently an influence already present though

[humble peak]

it'd make a lot of sense if it did, but there's no evidence for that

[solid cypress]

Steel City hype

7 more years

[craggy smelt]

are we sure? there's sister splinter and the other wood-like bugs - Splinter seems to allude to Nyleth in her dialogue

[humble peak]

fr like they could have just put some dreamcatcher symbols in and called it a day and we'd have been happy

[edgy nebula]

splinters presumably werent always there

[humble peak]

splinters are not the progeny of Nyleth

[midnight zinc]

You've got no idea, I've been dying to see these mfs for years and Silksong made them so much more sinister while still never showing them, I NEED to see what they're like

[edgy nebula]

they certainly dont look like nyleth beings

[onyx olive]

splinters were like an anti nyleth thing

[sterile jacinth]

Splinters are sister splinter. Also nothing at the same level as the mosskin

[solid cypress]

Hollow Knight: Steel City (2033)

[onyx olive]

im assuming shes responsible for the flora of shellwood and thats it

[dawn sluice]

i view higher beings as more taking control of an area rather than making it up
radiance didnt create dreams, they just are empowered by them and exist in them
pale king didnt create the concept of diplomacy in kingdoms, nor was the first wyrm to do it, but he made a pretty good one
lifeblood being might not or might have created lifeblood, but they exist
the knight didnt create void, they just got the voidheart and controlled the void

[craggy smelt]

I think the file names are interesting, with Nyleth being 'flower queen' and Splinter being 'splinter queen'
but using file names for lore is fraught
it'd be interesting if there were multiple 'seeds' involved in creating Shellwood
Splinter mentions 'sisters' that are long gone as well

[humble peak]

the spawn of nyleth include those flowers that shoot bullets at you and the flowers with the extending faces
even the flowers that float around and release spores are unrelated to nyleth, it's only mimicry

[onyx olive]

playavle zoat, experience him in his prime as the invincible fearless sensual mysterious enchanting vigorous diligent overwhelming gorgeous passionate terrifying beautiful powerful grey prince persona

[edgy nebula]

could be referring to weavers, cause that's what theyd call themselves, also all splinter say "sister, sister" "brother, brother" etc

[midnight zinc]

Alright enough driving myself crazy thinking about steel master lore, I have stuff to do, later ✌️

[onyx olive]

how come theres no guy weavers

spiders can be boys too

[sterile jacinth]

Cause gms didn’t make guy weavers

[edgy nebula]

well, they just say two words at the start of every sentence

[humble peak]

matriarchal themes

[solid cypress]

GMS is misandrist

[fossil ledge]

Could also be that GMS never intended for Weavers to reproduce

Or perhaps pharlids have no males?

[craggy smelt]

she wanted children, not grand children

[silk dirge]

transfem weaver theory for the win

[onyx olive]

but this is assuming ALL the pharlids (those spiders in blasted steps, underworks, etc.) were girls then

[edgy nebula]

and yet she got them anyway

[humble peak]

I really like the idea that weavers struggle to reproduce not because of some actual curse or limitation but just because all of them are women

[craggy smelt]

that's why she's all pissed off

[edgy nebula]

screw nyleth, the splinters are so much cooler anyway

[silk dirge]

in todays science experiment we will be feeding a spider estrogen to see what will happen

[fossil ledge]

Indeed. There are species in the real world that reproduce without males. It's called parthenogenesis

[craggy smelt]

like those lizards that are all female

[onyx olive]

like godzilla?

[dawn sluice]

she went from mother silk to grand mother silk

[silk dirge]

why would you believe any of these when you can believe transfem weavers

[craggy smelt]

like the american godzilla, blech

[onyx olive]

unc

[solid cypress]

It's hard for them to have children with any males at all too. Higher beings seem to be the exception (Pale King too hot).

[dawn sluice]

marc

[silk dirge]

gms probably laced her silk with estrogen

[craggy smelt]

laced hur hur

[dawn sluice]

higher beings can mate with literally anything living
pale king and white lady arent even the same species

[humble peak]

well you'd expect cross-species reproduction to be tricky wouldn't you?

[solid cypress]

Tbh the more likely explanation is she just created them in her own image

[onyx olive]

what if zote was from pharloom

his nail is made of shellwood

[sterile jacinth]

Funny but I think it’s unlikely

[solid cypress]

Well, yeah, but Pale King smashes all

[craggy smelt]

he got that pale seed

[dawn sluice]

he took the entire area of shellwood and turned it into a nail

[onyx olive]

brochacho survived the haunting no wonder he is so invincible fearless passionate im not typing all that fucking shit again

[fossil ledge]

That'd be the White Lady xD

[onyx olive]

0.01% power btw

[edgy nebula]

zote is from pharloom and greyroot is his mother, thats why hes the grey prince and why he looks like a vessel, trust

[craggy smelt]

he had it imported
like the menderbugs, all kinds of stuff in hallownest is made of wood

[dawn sluice]

i wonder if two higher beings reproducing makes another higher being, seeing as how the vessels arent even near that level even when fully grown like the hollow knight

[solid cypress]

✅

[silk dirge]

probably

[craggy smelt]

they probably result in something like Hornet, a creature with potential for great power

[onyx olive]

EVEN THEN assuming he did come from pharloom (and he’s kinda buns from most peoples perspective) he could’ve experienced the haunting, and it’s also implied that he’s not from hallownest too iirc im rusty on my hk knowledge from some dialogue talking about “back home was not like this@

[solid cypress]

Knight is very clearly a higher being though? It's OP af.

[humble peak]

idk PV was no joke
The Godseekers were pretty crazy for it

[fossil ledge]

Hornet is only half though

[dawn sluice]

itd be funny if him being the grey prince was actually true and greyroot just put a parasite in him

[humble peak]

"it's op af" is not the qualification for something to be a higher being

[onyx olive]

zote at absolute minimum scaling means he resisted the haunting 🔥🔥

[craggy smelt]

not sure how much that matters with god DNA

[dawn sluice]

i mean itd explain his hatred of mothers

[fossil ledge]

We only really have one example, unfortunately

[solid cypress]

It became the Shade Lord. Is Shade Lord not a higher being?? Or do you suggest this is the Knight evolving from a regular bug to a hb?

[onyx olive]

if you actually kill him he will fucking explode into witch crest bind

[humble peak]

Do you guys think Hornet's powerlevel(?) was consistent between HK and SS?
I wanna say yes because there was an amount of indication she was some levels above a mortal bug do at least to her dad's side

[fossil ledge]

The Knight became a higher being upon acquiring Void Heart

[onyx olive]

OR because he’s related to greyroot the parasite is holding him back from his true form hence why his dream form is grey prince zote aka his prime 🔥🔥🔥

[sterile jacinth]

It did not start out that way lol. Like Hornet binding gms it required something outside to bind

[solid cypress]

She's a demigod

[onyx olive]

in his mind zote is mighty and powerful but the parasite shackles such power

[sterile jacinth]

Never. He will kill you just for thinking such things

[humble peak]

We don't know enough about the definition of "higher being" to say
I think TK is definitely HB-level in VGForm and VGFocus states, probably just in general after reaching void heart, but it's possible even VGFocus isn't "technically" a higher being due to some aspect of how they're defined.

[dawn sluice]

thatd make sense

[onyx olive]

but such a burden he carries, the knight is lucky to face him in a withered state

[solid cypress]

Just apply Greek God logic atp. It's consistent and simple and to-be-expected. We've already gone 9 gears without any formal definition of HB, that would be pointless to wait for Steel City in 2033 to confirm Greek God theory is true.

[dawn sluice]

what if the abyss creature was a void creature who could use lifeblood to an INCREDIBLY large extent due to it's nature as a void creature

[humble peak]

greek god theory?

[onyx olive]

incredibly, you say? perchance, gassy?

[solid cypress]

God + god = god
God + normal = demigod

[limpid summit]

TK is a higher being when it gets VH

[dawn sluice]

i ate life ender

[onyx olive]

inbreeding 💔

[humble peak]

me when i say words without evidence

[limpid summit]

It evolves beyond the Wyrm and “exists above all others” (HB def) by uniting and controlling this deadly unknowable substance

[onyx olive]

OH YEAH WHERE WERE ANY OF THE WYRMS IN PHARLOOM

[humble peak]

didn't have any
presumably

[solid cypress]

Black wyrm in abyss, I think?

[sterile jacinth]

I doubt they’d have vibed with gms

[onyx olive]

like im still confused on what pharloom is supposed to be because ik hallownest is a kingdom built around the pale kings corpse or something like that

[dawn sluice]

are wyrms usually higher beings
because according to mr mushroom its routine for them to just
create kingdoms

[craggy smelt]

Greywyrm was married to Greyroot to father Zote

[limpid summit]

Pharloom was a smatterint of little tribes and groups that led to an eventual kingdom as a result of everything GMS

[limpid summit]

Likely yes

[sterile jacinth]

We only know one who definitely is so I would assume

[solid cypress]

Why usually, it's probably 100% of wyrms

[limpid summit]

Wyrms pull bugs into their thrall

[craggy smelt]

wyrms at least tend to rule over bugs, whether they're all HB-tier is really hard to say

[onyx olive]

so gms basically acted like “yooo you should build a citadel to have faith in me” because thats how i interpreted the citadel

[limpid summit]

Ehhh

[craggy smelt]

they weren't ordinary creatures, Bardoon mentioned they also possessed foresight like PK

[solid cypress]

Citadel was built by weavers

[limpid summit]

The citadel was actually not technically built in worship to GMS

[sterile jacinth]

I think the weavers proposed it to her with the intent of trapping her

[dawn sluice]

till ages pass and kingdoms fall

[onyx olive]

and that’s the cradle?

[solid cypress]

Citadel was built to keep GMS sleeping

[limpid summit]

It was built first as her tomb then Weavers turned the songs meant to contain her into worship of themselves

They expanded the Citadel but it was still dreary and made of stone

Then they got tired and left it to the Conductors who gilded it

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah and I think the citadel was originally built as a trap and gms thought it was just to worship her but nope weaver trap

[limpid summit]

Wdym?

[solid cypress]

Pale beings are just lovely misunderstood pookies

[humble peak]

On what textual evidence do you assert that TK is a HB once it receives VH with such certainty?

[solid cypress]

https://tenor.com/view/silksong-grand-mother-silk-hollow-knight-sad-gif-13779936002732673699

[onyx olive]

stupid ass 😭 this some julius caesar shenanigans bro

[limpid summit]

“It evolves beyond that Wyrm.”
Bardoon’s dialogue places TK above PK
It’s not framed as TK ascending past the expectations placed upon it by PK, as Bardoon doesn’t know about the Vessel project
It’s a measure of TK’s abilities and status

[sterile jacinth]

Well yeah weavers have a reputation for being sneaky and setting traps

[humble peak]

alright I'll take it
thank you for your evidence

[limpid summit]

Fair

[onyx olive]

“guys i LOVE this citadel you built for me wait what the fuck are you doing”

[solid cypress]

Sounds more like skarr to me

[limpid summit]

We tend to repeat a lot of stuff without knowing why I get wanting concrete evidence

[sterile jacinth]

A lot of bugs talk about their whispers and them being untrustworthy and so does Herrah. Also the silk snare is in a weavenest

[solid cypress]

Weavers lure GMS to the snare, then when she's stunned, they spam Needolin and force her into sleep?

[onyx olive]

wait speaking of herrah why does she look like an eggplant if shes like a weaver

[foggy fractal]

we don't know

[sterile jacinth]

We don’t know what happened but presumably lol

[solid cypress]

Eggplant variation of weaver, I suppose

[craggy smelt]

gained that baby weight

[onyx olive]

mahito got to bro

[sterile jacinth]

I’ve heard she was elevated from a mite? That is just a theory but they match more than Pharlids

[humble peak]

this comes up at least once a day
we don't know

[foggy fractal]

the out of universe explanation is that tc never designed her to be a weaver in the first place, and retroactively made her look more in line with what weavers look like

[onyx olive]

WAIT I FUCKING WATCHED A GIDEO ON THIS MAYBE SHE CAME FROM A DIFFERENT SPECIES OF BUG

[sterile jacinth]

She pretty closely resembles a mite

[onyx olive]

but why would gms ascend a mite

now hear this

[sterile jacinth]

Experimenting?

[craggy smelt]

"You can't trust Weavers."
"Herrah, you are a Weaver"
"Yes, I speak from experience."

[solid cypress]

Oops, ugh, welcome fat daughter

[onyx olive]

given that possibility, we could have spit squat weaver

[sterile jacinth]

Accurate

[onyx olive]

AND THATS THE FUCKING WEAVER IN BILEWATER

murglin was an ascended spit squat 🔥

[fossil ledge]

GMS first tried ascending Drapemites and later switched to Pharlids. Herrah true first Weaver confirmed

[craggy smelt]

murglin sounds like nurglin, which sounds like nurgle
appropriate for bilewater

[solid cypress]

Ascended drapemites were too fat, so she chose another species to experiment with

[fossil ledge]

Bladed dusty beachballs

[dawn sluice]

gms ascending random stuff for no reason until they get to pharlids would be funny
imagine if that was the reason certain random bug species have a mind (its not)

[tender thorn]

Wait chat got a question
You know those weaveelings (I think that's the name?) that drop from above and do two masks
Do we know if they'll become full weavers or are they like weird hybrids

[onyx olive]

“first sinner” my ass bro 😭

[sterile jacinth]

Herrah being ascended from a different bug would also explain her beast tile

[sterile jacinth]

She was the first to sin not necessarily the first weaver

[dawn sluice]

no the beast title is because she's morbidly a beast

[onyx olive]

maybe first sinner was considered as a defect and she moved onto mites and gms was like “yo shes kinda fat ngl” and switched back to pharlids

[fossil ledge]

I do wonder what TC will say on Herrah though, if at all

[onyx olive]

tc??

[fossil ledge]

Cause the implication in HK is that she was a member of the Spider Tribe, and not a Weaver

[sterile jacinth]

Since it’s probably a retcon I’m going to stick with the elevated mite theory

[fossil ledge]

Team Cherry

[onyx olive]

so she was initially with the pharlids but they bullied her so bad she made her own tribe 😭😭💔 ok

[fossil ledge]

Spider Tribe seems native to Hallownest, as far as we know

[dawn sluice]

toid ceart

[sterile jacinth]

I wonder if that’s where the little weavers come from

[onyx olive]

i thought it was short for tingcoul

[solid cypress]

I like this. There's something special about Herra that isn't sinister like Weavers, like the whispering and the expectations piled on Hornet.

[dawn sluice]

yeah
someone thought it was teavercong

[fossil ledge]

I'm pretty sure Little Weavers are just meant to be children Weavers, cause they are noticeably different to Deeplings and Deep Hunters, the youth of the Spider Tribe

[onyx olive]

trimmchild

[solid cypress]

So, basically Herra is not Weaver Weaver but Weaver* (from a different mite)

Seems reasonable to me

[sterile jacinth]

Best explanation we have :P

[fossil ledge]

Herrah the Dusty, First of the First

[robust wagon]

What? Herrah is a weaver

[craggy smelt]

Little Weavers are just like... smaller adult Weavers
don't think about it

(TC didn't)

[sterile jacinth]

I’m sure they’re a retcon lol

[onyx olive]

i mean hornets weaver and wyrm theres really no explanation

[solid cypress]

She's fat weaver, which is much rarer than the usual slim weavers

[onyx olive]

bro has 3 moms this shit gets complicated

[dawn sluice]

someone came up with an explanation that little weavers are just big weavers who are reverting to pharlids due to the infection

[craggy smelt]

I wouldn't have minded if they'd been different morphs for weavers, explaining both Little Weavers and Herrah's different appearance

[sterile jacinth]

And NONE of them are lesbians smh

[fossil ledge]

I'm curious why they did retcon it though. Seems like this might have happened later in development, given we had a cut wyrm crest appearance for the Hunter's crest

[sterile jacinth]

That would be cool but we don’t see that with any other bugs

[onyx olive]

im pretty sire thats also why hornet loves fluffy bugs, because she was with the bees and the queen raised her straight and cared about her

[dawn sluice]

i mean the other bugs arent artificially evolved by a higher being
they just kinda got a mind from the pale king (which got revoked too)

[sterile jacinth]

“Raised her straight” lmao what

[robust wagon]

She put on weight after having Hornet

[solid cypress]

Maybe they're just literal children?

[onyx olive]

as in “you have something they want and you must defend it” or she just wanted to beat the 3 mom lesbian allegations

[sterile jacinth]

Aaah ok

[dawn sluice]

yeah
some parents DID manage to overcome the curse (VERY PAINFULLY)

[sterile jacinth]

Lmao

I have three moms
Oh so they’re gay?
No.
What?

[fossil ledge]

White Lady and Godseekers confirm the beacon is still up and running, though. What you see is the result of the infection, and happens even to inherently sapient bugs

[robust wagon]

There's no explanation for what? Herrah and the Pale King had Hornet so that Herrah could become a dreamer, Herrah fled from Pharloom with some other weavers

[onyx olive]

yeah thats it

[foggy fractal]

the problem is that drapemites are mites and pharlids are arachnids
gms, lace and phantom aren't really spider esque either, they're just a bunch of thread so the spider part is entirely on pharlids being already spiders

[onyx olive]

i have a better question though

[fossil ledge]

Mites are arachnids IRL though

[foggy fractal]

mites are arachnids ?

[sterile jacinth]

How is this a problem?

[dawn sluice]

i never said the beacon wasnt up and running, it just doesnt reach some bugs due to some signal interference

[onyx olive]

if hornet loves the fluff so much why is the cutscene in the flea caravan only 5 seconds.

[silk dirge]

am i cooking

[foggy fractal]

I thought mites weren't arachnids

[silk dirge]

since people were complaining bell beast doesnt have a story like last stag

[sterile jacinth]

Aaah ok

[limpid summit]

I like this a lot

[solid cypress]

OKAY, I KNOW THE HERRA THEORY NOW

[dawn sluice]

oh you're trying to formulate a bell beast theory?

[limpid summit]

It’s insane that BB has no ndd

[silk dirge]

google search "are mites arachnids" says yes

[silk dirge]

trying to improve bell beast by adding a quest related to her

[dawn sluice]

oh so its like a fan content thing

[solid cypress]

Herra is just a regular weaver, she just fat from child bearing. Her head shape is shared by all weavers but weavers wear spherical oversized masks so no one sees their heads. Herra removed her innate mask and replaced it with a dreamer mask so we could see her head shape.

[silk dirge]

yeah just my ideas on how to improve silksong

[fossil ledge]

Isn't Widow a mask-less Weaver, though? She doesn't have horns

[silk dirge]

since this channel complains a lot i thought itd be more productive to come up with cool ideas instead of constantly talking about whats wrong

[solid cypress]

Maybe only the cool weavers have thorns

[sterile jacinth]

I doubt it. I still think she looks that way mainly because of a retcon but she could also have been ascended from a drapemite instead of a Pharlid

[onyx olive]

why is the huge flea so chunky

[dawn sluice]

they shaved her bald too

[dawn sluice]

memorium

[sterile jacinth]

Memorium fucking things up

[onyx olive]

how did bro grow to such monumental proportions

[limpid summit]

I think it would have been cooler if the Act 2 Wormways quest did not exist and we just happened upon a surprise lifeblood infection

[raw patio]

Can someone answer me in sk help

[limpid summit]

It would still be a bit cliche and random but it would absolve Hornet of inaction

[onyx olive]

memorium is when they kept breeding/sustaining lifeforms right

[sterile jacinth]

Memorium shenanigans like we see with other bugs

[eager spire]

im pretty sure it happens either way

[onyx olive]

did they just merge fleas like in those mobile games 💔💔💔

[sterile jacinth]

Lolllll

[eager spire]

i feel like he was just overfed

[onyx olive]

agar io

[silk dirge]

also i guess the explanation for why bell eater appears is all your bellway travel awakened it

[sterile jacinth]

I mean we see giant mossgrubs and other unnaturally huge bugs so that’s what I assume happened

[eager spire]

yeah i agree with that bug im pretty sure they didnt breed the fleas

[onyx olive]

also

is there more than 1 huge flea??? theres multiple cages

[muted lantern]

well the giant mossgrubs are stated to be bred to be that size

[eager spire]

more important question WHO IS AFTER THE FLEAS

[sterile jacinth]

Yea that’s what I assume happened to the flea maybe

[silk dirge]

mainly i was inspired by 2 things for this:
-people saying it would be nice to have beastling call in late act 2 to do a bunch of exploration before act 3
-bell beast not really having a story

[silk dirge]

no one

[muted lantern]

for flea theres only one so presumably they just fed him a lot

[silk dirge]

theyre just 1 braincell furballs

[eager spire]

then why are they so precariously trapped

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah. Either way it’s unnaturally big

[silk dirge]

same reason orange cats do dumb shit

[muted lantern]

it's like that one massive baby penguin

[sterile jacinth]

I love them but they’re idiots

[silk dirge]

fleas are basically cats you see on the internet

they have a max of 1 braincell

[eager spire]

is your cat stuck between 3 lavafalls

[silk dirge]

yes

[eager spire]

i lwk need to get ur cat

[muted lantern]

my cat once got stuck in an under construction apartment building on the second floor

[silk dirge]

i do not have a cat lol

[sterile jacinth]

Cats are kind of stupid lolll

[eager spire]

how even

[silk dirge]

one of my housemates does

[muted lantern]

hes a cat, they climb things and then don't know how to get back down

also there wasnt a door

[raw patio]

Can someone answer me in sk help

[eager spire]

i need to get a cat

[dawn sluice]

why does greyroot sing and shimmy to the needolin, but not speak their thoughts
i wonder whats going on with them

[dawn sluice]

the cat is necessary for ss lore

[sterile jacinth]

Evil plant
(Idk)

[dawn sluice]

anyway should i give them the twisted bud

[sterile jacinth]

Yes it will be perfectly fine

[dawn sluice]

okay now i think i shouldnt

[sterile jacinth]

Whaaaattt

[dawn sluice]

when you have to emphasize it being perfectly fine

its probably not perfectly fine

[sterile jacinth]

Dw about it

You will be a great host- I mean perfectly safe

[dawn sluice]

it did nothing

they just took it

[sterile jacinth]

Did you get the quest

[dawn sluice]

no

[sterile jacinth]

Huh…

[dawn sluice]

welp

thats that

[dawn sluice]

should i talk to them again

[sterile jacinth]

Probably

[muted lantern]

nothing ever bad comes from giving a infant to a witch

[sterile jacinth]

Yes the child will rebirth

You should celebrate this :)

[dawn sluice]

is it just me or is it weaver tradition to pretend to die

gms, first sinner, and widow all do this

[sterile jacinth]

I mean they are sneaky

[whole bronze]

Wait
If the citadel called "great citadel of silk", that means grandma silk was thereand was the crown before phalroom started slowly dying, bit then what was her reason to start tying up the citizens and the whole kingdom with them?

[robust wagon]

It's called the citadel of song

[whole bronze]

Oh wait what

Well, srry
-# for some reason i remember it as citadel of silk

[sterile jacinth]

Silk itself is also kind of revered (the object not the being) and used to prolong the life of bugs

[whole bronze]

Well then
Who was the previous king/queen? How is this possible that they haven't left any hints of them in phalroom except the kingdom itself? Assuming they were powerful since usually gods take crowns in this world, how could grandma silk take over them?

[sterile jacinth]

Wdym?

Pharloom before gms was half conquered by Karak and the rest were little isolated tribes

[whole bronze]

Also yeah i still remember bugs revere silk

[whole bronze]

So there was no phalroom before it started dying?

[sterile jacinth]

?? There was

[whole bronze]

I mean, as one whole kingdom

[sterile jacinth]

Well it was a bunch of fragmented little groups

[whole bronze]

Yeah that's what i mean

They almost weren't connected to eachother until gms csme and took over it, but in parallel started destroying it if i got you right

[sterile jacinth]

In parallel to what?

[muted lantern]

Oh shit i just realized something

[whole bronze]

To making phalroom's tribes connected and making it like.. whole?
-# I'm bad at getting words right

[sterile jacinth]

It’s still not really whole just most of its major powers are dead

Replaced by gms then the weavers then the conductors with the citadel

[muted lantern]

Okay you guys gotta hear me out on this: Why is herrahs mask blurry, when we know hornet has seen her sleeping and beyond that has seen the black egg temple knows what the mask looks like, herrah specifically says in that memory "...A mother... Before the mask... Before I lay forever in duty.... Herrah wasnt wearing her dreamer mask in the original instance of that moment, hornet can't remember what she lookedl like underneath the mask and thats why theres a blurry imposition of the dreamer mask because she can't remember what herrahs real face looks like.

[sterile jacinth]

Ough. Traumatizing if true

[dawn sluice]

i wonder how pharloom was doing during the events of hollow knight

[muted lantern]

the dreamers mask is all she can remember of her face, but she had a different one under that mask

[sterile jacinth]

Sounds like she’s just saying she’s putting her role as a mother before her role as a weaver or dreamer

[muted lantern]

but she specifically refers to herself as she is now, a mother, before the mask and her sleep, she talks like she isnt wearing the dreamer mask

because this line comes after her saying "will you remember me"

then her describing herself as she is in that moment and what she will be

[left pawn]

Is groal the same species as the soul master?

[muted lantern]

no

we have no idea what he is honestly

his similarities are possibly due to him being bloated with soul like sm

[whole bronze]

I mean
His skin looks like snail shamans.. kind of?

Like this black gooey ish

[muted lantern]

I mean most bugs have black shells

[left pawn]

Basically everything in both games are like that

[whole bronze]

Soul sanctum bugs aren't

Most enemies aren't though

[muted lantern]

black bodies like the snail shamans and hornet are a quite common trait still

[muted lantern]

So is the void still tied to regret lore wise?

[humble peak]

Not any more or less than it was before
Still not really concrete enough for us to say anything with certainty

[stark halo]

I know there's a vague link there because of Jiji

But she doesn't actually say the Void is made of regret, does she?

[polar fiber]

jiji calls our shade our regrets, thats pretty much it i think

[stark halo]

Makes sense

Regret might be an expression of Void but I doubt it's the only one; I don't think anything in SK really ties it to regret

[humble peak]

All we really have is Garmond's line about the Citadel's crimes and the shape of Hornet in her cocoon looking vaguely kinda voidy, but those are both really weak ties

[stark halo]

Yeah the cocoon alone is questionably diagetic haha

[whole bronze]

Very vague assumption: gms regrets of ruining phalroom and snail shamans regret putting their soul into that deal + what they have done

[whole bronze]

Also yeah what's the deal with that black hornet in the cocoon?

[humble peak]

What's left of her ig

[stark halo]

I don't think GMS regrets ruining Pharlookm at all, and the Snail Shamans are specifically (and kind of oddly, in Caretaker's case) pretty... I dunno, kinda underwhelming reaction lmao

But I would imagine the pilgrims are full of regret, if we really wanted to reach for something

[stark halo]

Cocoons themselves are questionably diagetic, but if any death leaves an expression of "regret" then presumably Hornet just automatically spins a cocoon around it to protect it/prevent it from lashing out

[whole bronze]

Yeah it's really vague
But also snail shamans could feel some regret without showing.. i spose
No dream nail unfortunately

[stark halo]

If I had to criticize any part of the writing it's mostly that I'm not sure what they were trying to do with Caretaker since he's positioned as a sort of grounding emotional crux for Act 2 and then in Act 3 is like "lol I guess we fucked up oh well"

[muted lantern]

void itself is definitely tied to emotion or the absence of it, especially if we go by what the ancient civ tablets say in the abyss: In silence your voice,
In darkness your form,
We higher who see you seeking,
Our shells yearn for your embrace. Erase our fear,
Eliminate our desire,
To suffer no more,
Void, cleanse us.

so giving into the void seems to be a manner of laying your own regrets to rest

it seems to be a place where you give up all of your earthly burdens

[brittle cedar]

kinda weird that a group that wanted to do that formed a widespread civilization

[muted lantern]

well thats probably why they arent around anymore

[fluid marsh]

Wait is the shade canon lore wise? Or does the knight do all of this first try

cause jiji talks about it and can sorta interact with the shade

but the knight is dead in one of the endings so I don't really get it

And same with the cocoons from silksong

[stark halo]

Vague and very difficult to canonize without making a lot of assumptions about higher being powers. I can posit a theory for it, but it's basically wild speculation from the get go

[light mauve]

Shade cannon probably

That guy isn’t doing anything first try

[fluid marsh]

real

[craggy smelt]

the Knight has one (the Knight is one, really) but dying and respawing to reclaim a Shade that exists as a separate entity isn't canon

what Jiji is doing probably isn't canon either, exactly - we know the steel vassals magic rituals can call the Void though

[fluid marsh]

So that's the same with hornets cocoons aswell I presume

[craggy smelt]

yeah, that's what I think

[hearty bolt]

Damn, that act 3 ending sure was something.

So Silksong is either a continuation of dream no more or embrace the void, right? There is a very short flash of the shade lord when hornet glances upon little ghost.

[echo trellis]

Belleater kinda had a point

[stark halo]

Yeah. I'm in favor of EtV/Delicate Flower, but many people do argue for DNM since it's more narratively satisfying

I lean to Delicate Flower personally actually

[hidden crater]

no one kills EIRA

[robust wagon]

Horrible ragebait

[sudden ginkgo]

Knight mask is like 1.5x - 2x more than Hornet mask?

[craggy smelt]

bells are delicious...

[opaque pier]

Nah man if some bum woke me up during my century long nap id be mad too

[hearty bolt]

I think it might still be EtV because the hollow knight's shade is nowhere to be seen

[stark halo]

yeah I think that has to be on purpose lol

also it'd be weird to just randomly add their etv appearance when they know what that implies, i just don't bother fighting on it because dnm is like the ending that was emotionally significant for a lot of people

i think etv gives them more room to expand the narrative though

[light mauve]

He just wanted to eat

[teal drift]

Bell Eater is one of the deeper characters in the story

[fossil ledge]

At first I thought Eira had turned into Bell Eater when meeting it for the first time in Act 3 xD

I thought it was cool that she'd metamorphose, evolved or something lol

[stark halo]

I had the same thought except I was worried lmao

"Wtf did the void do to you"

[ebon silo]

https://youtube.com/shorts/a2mzzsanpSw?si=H9gWut8_aAXuy3HR hmmm do you guys think that herrah was maybe one of the first experimented bugs AFTER the pharlids? She is instead a drapemite? And also recently some files were discovered that there were supposedly 3 more sisters each of them were experimented from the other tribes (skarr,krust,etc)

And when GMS successfully uplifted one she found it maybe disappointing? Probably bad at weaving unlike the weavers who were assumingly masters of

[solid cypress]

I just don't like how THK's appearance at the end of ETV is never addressed, if Silksong supposedly continues from ETV. So I prefer DNM in which THK and The Knight both simply join the void.

[ebon silo]

The problem with DNM is that the shade lord appears

[solid cypress]

It's just a flash. Out-of-universe explanation is because TC wanted it to look cooler.

[ebon silo]

That

That doenst even make any sense

[solid cypress]

Remove Shade Lord flashes and the scene looks 40% less dope

Anyways, I choose to be delulu because it's more narratively satisfying. I stay delulu until they tell me what happened to THK.

[ebon silo]

Still? The shade lord will only appear because it had been given focused via the godtuner iirc

Like ugh there was already a Discussion about this and I already forgot the contents

[solid cypress]

I refuse "Hornet killed THK"

I'll hate Hornet forever if this is the case

[ebon silo]

That should not be possible

[ebon silo]

There is no way hornet would try to kill THK she most likely just prepared herself just to be sure

She like did a stance or something

[solid cypress]

I want to see THK handsomely touching its mask because of mental shock after awakening, ah, the tiredness, would be so hot

Would love to see a family reunion between White Lady and THK though

But if the theory that current White Lady is speaking to Hornet in Red Memory is true, no mention of THK is really sad

[charred nimbus]

Good morning guys, how many family households and ecosystems did hornet already destroyed today?

[ebon silo]

Too many to count

[midnight zinc]

Well they already followed up on a lot from ETV with both the shade lord and the Everbloom’s being relevant to Silksong’s ending, since they’re going to add content I wouldn’t be surprised if they followed up on THK’s appearance

[solid cypress]

THK HYPE

Why do you think Everbloom in HK is fragile but not fragile in Skong? Is it because Skong Everbloom is made from silk?

[ebon silo]

What would THKs purpose be in pharloom anyway

[solid cypress]

Act 4: Return To Hallownest

[midnight zinc]

I didn’t say it would be in Pharloom

[charred nimbus]

No mention of THK sucks either way, we have no idea about a important part of the canon ending of the first game....

[ebon silo]

Or hornet probably just put it in his inventory unlike the dumbass knight who hold it instead

[solid cypress]

Yup, I like THK a lot, it's sad to never see it mentioned

[midnight zinc]

The knight is actually a sicko that enjoys playing with Ze’mer’s emotions, and kept intentionally breaking it

[solid cypress]

HMMM, or the everbloom in HK was actually also created from memory of Lmere (forgot her name)

But it's less stable than Hornet's so it breaks easily

Lmere has infinite supply of Everbloom

[charred nimbus]

Sorry, but that's not the case, it's actually funny if you compare how wholesome and kind the knight actions are in the first game despite being void

[solid cypress]

I may be cooking

[solid cypress]

The Knight is more wholesome than Hornet (why kill Green Prince)

[midnight zinc]

The knight kills the nailsmith in most playthroughs

[charred nimbus]

That's the point, despite hornet tending to have more personality, she is more cold and monstrous then ghost

[solid cypress]

Nailsmith asked for it. Green Prince didn't ask to have his heart RIPPED OUT for being gayly remorseful.

[charred nimbus]

It was his final wish tho

And even then the knight can avoid it

[midnight zinc]

Idk about any of you but if the owner of a shop I regularly go to suddenly asks me to kill him, I’m not gonna do it

[solid cypress]

She's clearly not supposed to be. I heard others say that Green Prince's messy situation is because it was changed later in the development process and this is the leftover artifact.

[midnight zinc]

He shouldn’t have attacked hornet then, she wasn’t aggressive

[charred nimbus]

It's different cultures and time periods tho

[midnight zinc]

I don’t think suicide is normal in Hallownest

[solid cypress]

She invades his memories, despite his protest then RIPS HIS HEART out

[charred nimbus]

I mean, Quirrel also did it....

[midnight zinc]

Quirrel is a pretty unique case, because he lived two complete lives

Also he’s old, he’s gonna die soon anyways

And he doesn’t make someone else do it for him

[charred nimbus]

True

[solid cypress]

He seems like a 40yo guy

Not that old

[midnight zinc]

He says explicitly that he feels his age once he no longer has Monomon’s mask

[solid cypress]

I meant the nailsmith

[midnight zinc]

Again mind you he’s a normal bug who was alive when Hallownest was around

[solid cypress]

Quirrel is probably thousands years old

As ancient as Knight (a little more)

[midnight zinc]

And the white lady talks about how it’s been an incredibly long time since the kingdom fell

[solid cypress]

Monomon didn't age despite not wearing dreamer mask. Jellyfishes are pretty much immortal IRL also without external harm. I think it's a neat detail.

[charred nimbus]

I mean, all the green prince asked was to have a moment alone with his dead lover, then hornet decided to see what was his balling inside

[midnight zinc]

That has more to do with her being put to sleep as a dreamer, Lurien and Herrah also haven’t “aged”

[solid cypress]

I'm pretty sure Herrah and Lurien don't age thanks to the mask

[charred nimbus]

It's possible tho

[somber shuttle]

is there a lore reason why the bell beast gives us a silk heart

[solid cypress]

I think it accidentally eats one (and the silk generated from the heart traps it)

[charred nimbus]

I don't think so

[midnight zinc]

Perhaps, but Monomon is also not fully physically there until the mask is brought back, its implied some of her essence is in the mask

[charred nimbus]

I need to read the Quirrel comic again, that piece of art is so good

[solid cypress]

I'm not sure how this is supposed to work, though. Given the odd Jellyfish placement in a bug kingdom, I'm inclined to believe jellyfish was chosen because they're immortal IRL.

[midnight zinc]

I think they were chosen because Team Cherry played Super Metroid

[charred nimbus]

Well, maybe it's possible that Herrah could be immortal too because she's a weaver, I'm not sure if weavers are immortal, but then there's Lurien

[solid cypress]

Weavers aren't immortal, though

They simply have a really long lifespan (I guess it's because they can use silk to heal themselves)

[midnight zinc]

If you’re not aware, SM is THE metroidvania, and it has jellyfish in it. There’s a lot of direct homages to that game throughout HK. Another example is the shade beast that gives you the shade cloak is sitting and holding the bowl in the same way the chozo statues sit and hold the power ups in SM.

[charred nimbus]

Then this reasoning doesn't make too much sense, why would they chose only one immortal creature to be a dreamer? And this wouldn't explain why the other two are also dreamers and are living all this years

[solid cypress]

Dreamer mask temporarily stops aging, as seen with Quirrel

[midnight zinc]

TC is definitely an “artwork and gameplay first” type of team, and I think they just wanted jellyfish in their game because they loved super Metroid, they constantly talk about its influence on HK in interviews.

[solid cypress]

Given how I only need to make one jump to explain it, compared to how many more jumps and guesses we have to make otherwise, I'm more inclined to believe my theory

[midnight zinc]

Also idk what yall are talking about, none of the three dreamers are inherently immortal, it’s the ritual that puts them to sleep/the masks they wear that keeps them alive. Lurien is straight up just a normal bug and he’s still alive before we kill him.

[solid cypress]

Monomon doesn't wear her mask

Why did Herrah switch out her mask if the dreamer mask wasn't necessary and the ritual itself provided immortality?

Herrah like all Weavers have innate spherical mask

[midnight zinc]

What does this even mean? They’re explicitly influenced by Metroid, they even look like the specific type of jellyfish in Metroid, and there’s an almost zero percent chance that they made the lore for monomon before they even put jellyfish into a level. The reason they put jellyfish in the game is pretty clear

[solid cypress]

You're fighting the wrong boss, dude

[midnight zinc]

Also most real jellyfish are NOT immortal, idk where you got that from. There’s a few specific species that can theoretically live indefinitely but jellyfish in general are not “immortal”

[solid cypress]

I'm talking about how Monomon didn't need her mask to survive

[midnight zinc]

You’re the one that responded to my message that had nothing to do with dreamer masks lol

[solid cypress]

They live indefinitely provided ideal environment, food etc and no external harm

[midnight zinc]

Right which none of them live in, in the wild

[solid cypress]

Or is it just a really famous branch of jellyfish? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turritopsis_dohrnii

[solid cypress]

Monomon looks pretty not-in-the-wild for me

[midnight zinc]

My point is that you completely made up the concept that that’s why team cherry included them in the game

There’s genuinely nothing in the text of the game that says anything about the jellyfish being immortal

[solid cypress]

I'm inclined, I always use this word

[midnight zinc]

There’s a pretty blatant reason they are included: Metroid, the reason I gave

It’s the same reason Grimm looks and acts like a vampire, because team cherry really like Castevania

[solid cypress]

Yeah, sure

Why are we fighting again

[fresh badger]

🥀 why are we assuming the magic dream bugs given magic dream powers by their state were immortal from the start

Lurien was a bum ass politician who creeped on people with a telescope

Age is a weird thing in hk anyways, we have bugs from Hallownest's era existing long after 'ages' of hallownest being ruins

Nailmasters, nailsage, nailsmith, 5gk, emilitia, etc

And we have bums like elderbug who ere born long after hallownest fell to ruin but is elderly

[carmine oak]

I assume there’s just widely varying lifespans between bug species

[vestal swan]

Preservation tank that she built

Not to mention some bugs life spans just being absurd to begin with

[mighty parcel]

I just realized something

The Twelfth Architect is just as much a slave to the Citadel as the Underworkers or Dreg-Catchers

[carmine oak]

like I assume Hornet’s prospective lifespan is like at least twenty times that of the Nailsmith, who probably lives twice as long at least as Elderbug, who’s probably at least 1.5x the lifespan of the average bug down there

[fresh badger]

Yes

[unreal estuary]

Where were the Envoys taking Hornet in the opening cutscene

Like what was the point of going this way

[teal drift]

They may have a secret way through the Nyleth Shrine into the citadel

[vestal swan]

Maybe they had a functioning elevator ready

[teal drift]

Probably just an offscreen convenient elevator or something

[steep talon]

they probably would have traveled through bellway

[pseudo raptor]

Golden carriage checks out

[simple hedge]

What if it was the other way?

[unreal estuary]

No cause we see them walking into Shellwood during the opening

And they come through the gate in Blasted Steps

[steep talon]

actually i guess while on the topic. This might be the reason bell beast got trapped at the start. GMS didnt want bell beast to inverfere with citadel bugs bringing hornet through bellways

[simple hedge]

Shit you right

Honestly yeah idk. I guess there's a different way only know to Citadel bugs

[unreal estuary]

This is probably the most likely option to me given the elevators in Blasted Steps. The thing that could actually confirm it would be if there were a hook up at the top of that area or something but maybe they were going to pull Hornet's cage up the Steps before taking it through the Grand Gate and up into the Citadel

[timber maple]

is pale stag a higher being?

[humble peak]

Nothing to indicate that

[echo trellis]

Lower slab is kinda scary

[unique lodge]

Deepnest is much worse

[echo trellis]

I mean the whole lower section is collapsing

[unique lodge]

You're scared of collapsing buildings?

[echo trellis]

Who wouldn’t be

A collapsing building is a safety hazard

[unique lodge]

True

[teal drift]

Skong alternate timeline where the bellways collapse on the convoy and everyone dies at the start of the game

[austere hinge]

i dont get how hornet "saved" pharloom after killing grandmother silk, like now the whole place is covered in silk shes a real spider now, whats the purpose

[spark valve]

that is the bad ending she didn't save pharloom she's just gonna keep doing the same thing gms was doing

[austere hinge]

how do i get the other endings

[spark valve]

REQUIRED QUESTS

Flexile Spines (hunt for spine cores)
Bone Bottom Repairs (bb repair 1)
A Lifesaving Bridge (bb repair 2)
Crawbug Clearing (kill crows for scarecrow)
Building Up Songclave (sc repair 1)
Strengthening Songclave (sc repair 2)
Restoration of Bellhart (bh repair 1)
Bellhart's Glory (bh repair 2)
Trail's End (shakra final quest)
Balm for the Wounded (rescue sherma)

WORLD STATE

Fleatopia
Double Jump
Lace Refight
House Key
17 optional quests completed

then there should be a quest at bellhart

[austere hinge]

huh

[spark valve]

you have to do all that

[austere hinge]

i do ALL THE QUESTS?

[spark valve]

not all of them just a lot of them

[austere hinge]

son 💔 💔 💔 💔 💔 💔 🥀 🥀 🥀 🥀 🥀

[spark valve]

it's bad

[austere hinge]

whats that ending do

[spark valve]

lets you access act 3

[austere hinge]

theres a third act? 🥀

all binds p5 is easier than ts 🤞

[sinful nimbus]

Crawbug Clearing being required is the funniest thing ever

Bro think he part of the team 😭

[coarse walrus]

radiance and fleas correlation?

[sinful nimbus]

Negative

[coarse walrus]

radiance a flea

[foggy fractal]

negative

[dim storm]

HELL no

i beat silksong with 96% yet i cant beat pantheon 3

[edgy nebula]

yeah ss is far easy than all binds p5

i havent beaten no binds p4 yet

[dim storm]

i can’t do no binds p3

[spark valve]

that was a joke

[dim storm]

even if it was im just saying its not, at all

[edgy nebula]

hard to tell what is a joke and what isnt in the magical land of sk-lore

[dry bridge]

this is largely conjecture, but it could be that they were delivering the cage to widow, who was haunting bellhart while she waited for hornet to be delivered

[edgy nebula]

i agree, karak's fuzzy timeline is my biggest fear too

[vestal swan]

Get on a lore topic

[dim storm]

OH HELL NAAAWWW

[dim storm]

can i ask about lore

[vestal swan]

That's what the channel is for.....

[dim storm]

no like ask you

[vestal swan]

I know some stuff

[dim storm]

i wanted to ask how the herald continued from hk to silksong and then left again

like he shot from dirtmouth to silksong

[sinful nimbus]

wym how

[dim storm]

like mainly whats he doing there that you help him move on from hk to silksong and there’s still somewhere he’s going

[vestal swan]

He readjusts bro

He likes observing big events

[sinful nimbus]

He doesn't have any place he's ought to be going, he just shows up to signal an age is about to end

[dim storm]

but he’s in the most random places

like with one of the nail brothers

how does that signal an age is gonna end

[silk dirge]

who writes the lore tablets

it seems like a sort of prophecy

[vestal swan]

His arrival in the kingdom is the signal
Not each little spot he shows up at

[dim storm]

ohhh

[silk dirge]

i would guess the lore tablets are ancient probably

[vestal swan]

Idk seems like he wrote it now

He landed he wrote it he left

[dim storm]

he?

[vestal swan]

I don't think anybody could ever predict his weird behavior or travels besides himself

[silk dirge]

oh i could see that

[dim storm]

oh mr mush

[silk dirge]

he writes when he arrives

[vestal swan]

He says how he can see a lot and a lot of possibilities but he's not sure what's actually going to happen in the future, so it's like he's trying to narrow it down and calm down his brain

[sinful nimbus]

"We speak the path of the master herald, he who signals an ages end" or wtv seems to suggest someone else wrote it

[vestal swan]

Or he's just a weirdo that uses the wrong form of Wii

God damn it autocorrect why would you use that

[sinful nimbus]

In HK it was a tablet connected to the regular mushroom hive mind

[silk dirge]

its definitely some sort of prophecy

[vestal swan]

|| retcon ||

[sinful nimbus]

New super mario bros wiiiiii 🗣️

[sinful nimbus]

🥹

[vestal swan]

There's so many fucking retcons if anything looks slightly out of place you can just throw retcon on it and ignore it

[silk dirge]

peak lore analysis

[sinful nimbus]

Except for the uh void haunting which feels like it should be a retcon but is not 🥴

[dim storm]

i wanted to ask, why is hornet obsessed with fur

hornet want to touch fur

[silk dirge]

foiled once again

[sinful nimbus]

Liking soft things is not very strange

[dim storm]

i like soft things too

[vestal swan]

Void haunting makes sense, I never expected TK to be controlling the universe of void, but then there's all the problems about TK somehow knowing hornet needs help and teleporting there so you can slap retcon on it

[dim storm]

but such a fierce bug, why love fur

[silk dirge]

why wouldnt she

probably has to do with bees in the hive being fuzzy

[dim storm]

maybe, since she was trained in the hive by the queen herself

[silk dirge]

i think the main issue is slashing the void tendrils

without that everything works out fine imo

other than inconsistent everbloom behavior

[sinful nimbus]

TK aura farmed

[teal drift]

I mean gms seems to exert some control over all silk as a substance, makes sense that TK would be aware of all void

[silk dirge]

the way i imagine the void works is its like controlling a body part like your arm

when you are not actively controlling your arm it swings around a bit

so that but across the entire void

[sinful nimbus]

ts is dumb icl

[teal drift]

I imagine its like if i was the goo god and my goo wanted to eat my sister so i slapped goo away from it

[vestal swan]

It still doesn't work
If TK knew she needed help why did she struggle with the void at all
If TK was connected to the void yeah the above
If TK isn't connected how did they teleport to it
If TK isn't connected how did they know she needed help

These all exist if you remove the fighting tentacles

[echo trellis]

Horrific

[sinful nimbus]

Me when the guy who's entire schtick is resting and chilling with its journey done suddenly has to constantly be wrangling the void from killing passersby

[silk dirge]

tk couldnt sense hornet until everbloom was gone is the easy explanation

[teal drift]

Does TK tacitly approve of the void killing anything and only choses to save its sister

[sinful nimbus]

Just let my goat chill with THK 😭

[teal drift]

TK administering judgement on anyone who dares take a dunk in goo

Tbh i think the everbloom entering the void is probably what drew TK to gms’ cocoon and when it saw hornet it decided to yump in

[silk dirge]

yeah

or probably when the everbloom died

[vestal swan]

TK sensing anything but also not being in control of it doesn't make sense though

[silk dirge]

i assume it couldnt sense hornet when she was repelling it

[humble peak]

TK probably was just able to sense there was something going on way off in the distance and headed over
Conveniently arriving just in time

[limpid summit]

Yup

[vestal swan]

TK showing up is worse than trying to figure out what the first flower did

[silk dirge]

i mean i assume if you removed the tendril slashing it probably all happened much faster than the cutscene shows

[teal drift]

This is kinda like asking “if a king has absolute power in his region why does he need to approach the sheriff directly to stop a criminal’s execution”

[vestal swan]

The speed of things is not part of the issue???

[limpid summit]

Now I think the flower had some kind of strange reaction to VGFocus and bound it to Godseeker creating GSM

[silk dirge]

I would assume the knight was not actively controlling void in that area but it can it just needs to think a bit to assert control over an area like how you need to actively control your arm even though its part of you

[limpid summit]

Before I didn’t know what to think and it doesn’t really make sense either way

[vestal swan]

Except this isn't a king going to a sheriff it's a magical ability to control a substance

[teal drift]

I think yall are seeking contradictions where theres not. Gods are somewhat limited and god substances act autonomically, TK was drawn there and used its power to stop the automatic process from happening

[limpid summit]

Why did GSM have to be canon and why did it have to be just “after p5” 💔

[vestal swan]

If it could control it the tendril's attacking TK also doesn't make sense, that's like your arm deciding to stab you in the face because you weren't paying attention to what your arm was doing

[silk dirge]

and then flower disappeared and void started attacking hornet and tk realized in very quick succession what was happening and stopped it

[silk dirge]

yeah thats the main issue

[teal drift]

I dont think gods have 100% control over their substances

[sinful nimbus]

Read this as "Why did GMS have to be canon"

[limpid summit]

You know canonically star

[vestal swan]

TK showing up is the issue everything about it doesn't make sense

You can't remove one part of this and have the rest to make sense

[teal drift]

Gms cant ohko hornet just cause hornet has silk

[silk dirge]

the other stuff is easily explainable you need to think to assert control over stuff

[limpid summit]

In EtV THK could totally get killed by raw void that TK isn’t controlling

Imagine that

[silk dirge]

do you think tk is actively controlling the void everywhere

[vestal swan]

They were given supernatural control over it asserting that they have to focus on doing it does not make any kind of sense

[limpid summit]

What

That makes sense

[vestal swan]

The void should obey TK's will, the scenario where they have to fight it and don't automatically know what's going on should not exist

[teal drift]

If poseiden saves a sailor by stopping the waves does that mean no one should ever drown?

[limpid summit]

It’s what makes sense with what TC wrote

[sinful nimbus]

What void bro 💔

[limpid summit]

The void is not different void

[sinful nimbus]

Its all the way up in Forgotten Crossroads

[vestal swan]

TK isn't Poseidon people stop bringing this up it's a really bad comparison

[limpid summit]

Easy champ he doesn’t know you can talk yet

[teal drift]

But it isnt really. Its a god of a substance but it doesnt automatically control all activities of that substance.

[silk dirge]

void didnt touch hornet until everbloom went away

[vestal swan]

Are we assuming void is blind now

That was never an issue before

[sinful nimbus]

The void and TK's will were unified, in SOTV the void is pretty clearly not acting under TK's will

[limpid summit]

This would have been weird in HK but in SS this is what makes sense

Still a bit contradictory

[sinful nimbus]

You can handwave it away with "Void is just following instincts" but that's dumb icl

[teal drift]

I think youre seeking fundamental contradictions where theres only mild ambiguity about the extent of TKs power.

[vestal swan]

Don't shitpost in here

[teal drift]

Void is an automatic substance that instinctively destroys.

[silk dirge]

i mean it needs to assert its will

[sinful nimbus]

Also dumb

[silk dirge]

why would tk say all void everywhere is going to be calm now

[sinful nimbus]

That's made up

[teal drift]

Do you also think gms should have perfect control over all silk?

[sinful nimbus]

💀

[vestal swan]

That's not an ability she's ever stated to have

[limpid summit]

I don’t think TK can be compared to anyone really

[silk dirge]

the needing to focus to assert control over void makes sense to me

[limpid summit]

But it’s a fact that the Silksong void (same void) acts like raw ununified void

[teal drift]

Im just a bit confused about where youre sourcing your claim of TKs supposed power. Gods are not all knowing and all powerful in this world, and it even seems that becoming a god makes you more rabid and less sentient in certain cases.

[sinful nimbus]

TK and the void were stated to be the same entity and the void is explicitly stated to be under its control

[silk dirge]

like if i was a giant ocean of void i certainly would not be paying attention to whats going on in all locations

[sinful nimbus]

SOTV contradicts that

[vestal swan]

Needing to assert control over a different lake of void does make sense, if we are assuming they are not connected at the bottom of the world like a bunch of people assume and the game suggests.

But like I said earlier this only removes one problem out of the five different problems that exist with this scenario of TK showing up.

TK not being connected or not controlling the void means they should have no way to know hornet needs help or where hornet is at or a way to get there

[silk dirge]

your arm is under your control right

when you arent focusing your arm swings around on its own

[vestal swan]

No it does not

[limpid summit]

I’ve used this analogy before

[vestal swan]

Get checked out by a doctor

[sinful nimbus]

that doesn't seem particularly equivalent does it 🥴

[silk dirge]

what 😭

[limpid summit]

I don’t see why not

At this point the void is an extension of TK

[silk dirge]

does your arm not swing around a little bit when you arent actively controlling it

[vestal swan]

Y'all acting like your arm just be doing shit without your permission you have a phantom limb or something if that's what's happening to you

[limpid summit]

Wtf are you talking about 💔

[vestal swan]

Letting it swing instead of making it do something is not it moving by itself that's gravity

Tf

[tepid mountain]

No?

[vestal swan]

🦾 is my arm supposed to sit here like this and anything besides this is my arm moving on its own?

That's not how bodies work

[sinful nimbus]

My arm does not act of its own accord independent from my will it just dangles because of physics

And void being boiled down to evil generic goop is stupid af

[spark valve]

ashitaka arm irl

[foggy fractal]

yeah seal this analogy doesn't make sense

[vestal swan]

None of the analogies make sense lol

[limpid summit]

Pretty sure some animals do have different nervous systems in their arms that they control right

[silk dirge]

it just makes sense to me void works like this

[limpid summit]

Squids

[silk dirge]

you cant possibly be thinking about all void all at once

[foggy fractal]

and we shouldn't use human logic anyway

[sinful nimbus]

TRUE

[vestal swan]

Those creatures have multiple brains and extended nervous systems n shit

[sinful nimbus]

Deleted 😔

[limpid summit]

There’s no true analogy for TK and void

[silk dirge]

maybe im trying to look at this through a human mind so thats my problem but like

[limpid summit]

But TK not pacifying all void isn’t completely out of left field (it is pretty stupid though)

[silk dirge]

if i was a giant ocean idk if i would be able to figure out whats going on in every atom of the ocean at the same time

[limpid summit]

It can be explained away without a headache

[sinful nimbus]

Its just more thematically coherent for void to be chill after Void Heart so i don't really fw it even if there's a potential handwave

[vestal swan]

It cannot like I've said about five times, you can remove one part of this problem and the other four are still there glaring at you

[spark valve]

thematically coherent in ss-lore

[limpid summit]

What are the other four?

[vestal swan]

If TK's in control why did it attack
if TK is in control why did this scenario happen in the first place
if TK isn't in control how did they know hornet needed help
If TK isn't in control how did they get there

You can take away one and the others will still be there, nothing exists to remove all of these things from being a problem

[silk dirge]

i mean for me the idea that you cant be focusing on every area at once makes sense to me as a fix for that

[limpid summit]

I mean you can always remove two of them

TK is not in control

[silk dirge]

like if i was void would i be caring about what happens in kingdoms across the world

[foggy fractal]

it's in control but it doesn't care to subdue the void normally trust
the knight DOES discriminate, only shows up to save their sister smh !

[silk dirge]

like idk if i was tk why would i specifically go "ok pharloom void were chilling out now" assuming the hk world is an infinite flat plane theres infinite void to think of there's definitely areas it doesnt care about until something happens to that area that makes it care

[vestal swan]

Okay if we assume TK is not in control of all void all the time, or more simply put they only have control over the lake they are from to begin with, then they must subjugate other void manually through contact?

That still leaves the problems of TK knowing and TK getting there

Then there is this weird assumption that the void that is somehow connected to TK doesn't know she's there when she's been peering into the lake and almost got swallowed by a portal and fighting void possessed creatures?

[limpid summit]

I don’t understand your last point

TK knowing who knows TK getting there it swam that’s not ridiculous

[vestal swan]

It has been brought up not by me, that TK is being blinded by the flower. The flower is not the only time hornet is close to or interacts with the void

[silk dirge]

she doesnt touch the void otherwise tho

i dont think falling into the void and taking double damage really counts

[vestal swan]

She's fighting void possessed all over the kingdom? She peers into the lake and talks to the void possessed child lace?

Again void is not blind

[silk dirge]

yeah but those all have their own wills

tk cant control the collector with void heart

[vestal swan]

If TK has some control and is connected to this void and has somehow has sensory capabilities, simply not being able to see her before the flower is even used does not add up with this interpretation

[limpid summit]

What interpretation I’m so confused

Void attacks everyone in Pharloom

[silk dirge]

like it makes sense to me if void is merged with the will of someone else tk cant control or see through it

[limpid summit]

TK doesn’t have some sort of Hornetsense

[vestal swan]

The flower is being used to excuse TK's perception in the early events somehow

[limpid summit]

Well that doesn’t make sense

[vestal swan]

Yes that is my point, none of these things get explained by anything that has been brought up

[limpid summit]

Unless TK has to break out of Godseeker

[silk dirge]

like i dont think tk has control over or can see through a void controlled covetous pilgrim or some shit

[limpid summit]

You mean a lack of perception from TK?

I mean it might just not be thinking about what faraway void is doing

I don’t think it was ever suggested that TK was some sort of madame web voidmaster

[silk dirge]

yeah this is exactly my point

[vestal swan]

This is the problem though

[limpid summit]

TK isn’t Rad

[vestal swan]

They're either connected and paying attention or they're not which removes half of the entire scenario either way

[limpid summit]

Or they just focus up later?

[silk dirge]

i mean what im saying is its really hard to be paying attention to the entire void

[vestal swan]

Connected: void isn't a problem for hornet
Not connected: how the fuck does TK know or do anything here

Even if you want to argue that it's attention is divided how does it ever figure it out

[limpid summit]

They are definitely not connected so let’s focus on the latter

Why does TK’s connection have to be all or nothing

Rad has to lock onto a bug to infect it

TK might have to lock onto void to control it

[silk dirge]

this is exactly what im saying

[vestal swan]

Red is not the god of dreams so her having to singularly target everybody makes sense

[blissful harbor]

i’m sure it would notice it’s sister falling in
she had the flower before being actually in it, her presence without the flower allowed it to notice imo

[silk dirge]

same with gms

gms can assert control over bugs to do specific tasks but most of the time haunting just makes them act crazy

[limpid summit]

Exactly

[vestal swan]

She's able to send out entire groups to go collect weavers, I just think she doesn't care about the random ones outside of stopping them from reaching her and maybe stopping her

[limpid summit]

Okay

Replace her with TK and random pilgrims with void

And collecting weavers with killing Rad

Not a terrible analogy

For the weird ending we have

[silk dirge]

yeah exactly

[tepid mountain]

But then why does she get attacked by void tendrils without the flower?

[silk dirge]

like what i need people to answer is why would void particularly be caring about what shit happens in pharloom

why would tk just randomly decide to make this void lake here chill

[vestal swan]

Hornet not investigating what happened after either of the endings that people think are possible (embrace the void has thk walk out of the egg she's going to need an explanation for that) and by extension not knowing what happens to TK is a horribly illogical take

[silk dirge]

void haunting imo does not allow tk to control or see through those bugs exactly how void heart doesn't do shit to collector

[jolly cypress]

I finally finish both the games, but I have a question.
If only inside the Hollowest, the bugs can have their intelligence, because the power of the Pale King, and only he could do that
Like, what happened with that NPC that are friends of 1 Dreamer.
Why Hornet keep their intelligence and how are another city with bugs with intelligence?

[limpid summit]

Some bugs didn’t get their intelligence from the beacon

[silk dirge]

lost lace is pretty analogous to collector imo

[limpid summit]

The beacon just uplifted minds of certain bugs that didn’t already have it

[silk dirge]

shes voidified but she still has a will thats not the void

[vestal swan]

Pk only boosted minds and he was not the only source of intelligence, plenty of bugs were smart without him natively and in other nations

[limpid summit]

And natives of Pharloom already had it too

[jolly cypress]

But when the "king" was the radiance, the bugs don't have intelligence, so that is the reason to follow the PK and forget Radience, right?

[vestal swan]

What

Radiance never ruled the region she only had her moths

[limpid summit]

The radiance didn’t have anything to do with anyone else’s intelligence besides the moths until she was almost forgotten

[vestal swan]

And yes plenty of bugs were smart before he arrived

The mantises, the moss, the snails, the bees I feel like I'm forgetting a lot, the mushrooms

The only group that's remotely hinted to have benefited is the city citizen type of bug

[silk dirge]

im just trying to imagine hallownest with pks beacon

sapient vengeflies is crazy

[vestal swan]

That didn't exist

[silk dirge]

thats how i understood it worked from this channel

[limpid summit]

The only dudes that got uplifted were like the husks and the NPCs

[jolly cypress]

There will be a Hollow Knight 3?
Because says "continues" in the ending.

[limpid summit]

The animals were probably still just animals