sk-lore

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah but we need explicit confirmation

[lyric rose]

explicit

[fathom hill]

someone said it could have been like a bug that made the event to not happen

And not like they forgot completely

But idk this don't believe it

[silk dirge]

that does not seem like a bug lol

[fathom hill]

unless you want to

[silk dirge]

i think they added that in

[lyric rose]

Huh?

[silk dirge]

"fixed bug where coral gorge area was replaced by a completely different area"

[sinful nimbus]

TRUE

[fathom hill]

I really dunno programming

but could have been an if missplaced or spelling or anything

so like maybe it was a small fix we don't know

lmao

but please don't believe anything i say i just repeat shit

[snow sonnet]

The fact they didnt mention needle strikes gave silk in patch 2 was baffling ngl

[fathom hill]

spanish is funnier phrasing ngl

ty anyways

ig someone got mad or something

[opaque parcel]

theoretically could there be a rosary above pale rosaries or is 15 rosary bead the highest

[sinful nimbus]

idk what would stop that from existing

What if Silksong had rupoors themed around void that detracted from your rosary count

[shrewd stream]

hello

i have a question of the lore

how the widow lost her mask

[sinful nimbus]

She was mutilated

Idk how far along the game you are so if you haven't beaten the game don't click: || Probably mutilated by the Weavers for being devout to GMS||

[scenic shuttle]

Like nymm in hk

But reverse

[vestal swan]

Nymm was just stupid

[sinful nimbus]

Well the weavers are exceptionally evil

The alternative is that the conductors mutilated her but... GMS is to some extent their unknowing deity so that feels strange

[vestal swan]

This timeline is too fucking confusing to be certain but I thought it was a possibility the first time I figured shit out that maybe she had her "silk hearts" removed but kept alive as a puppet

[sinful nimbus]

What

[vestal swan]

Ripping her face off might have given her an identity crisis but they were controlling her other ways too

[sinful nimbus]

Weaver "masks", which are part of their body, are not indicated to matter all that much

[vestal swan]

I mean with the way the world works ripping your face off might actually have an effect

[sinful nimbus]

I know

[vestal swan]

And it's part of her body?

Mask is face
Face is shell
Shell is biological

[hexed kindle]

I found some really weird gaps on the map and i think they could be dlc area for example a lifeblood/plasmium area,steel city,pharloom bay and something else the gaps just look too convenient to just be gaps also i have took into consideration the steel city might be a completely seperate map or game ( e.g i took this screenshot of the map from my 2nd playthrough ik it isnt complete and is missing areas like sands of karak , verdainia and the abyss)

[sinful nimbus]

Mask is used in Silksong to refer to the face occasionally and its clearly true for the case of the Weavers which we specifically know were born with them

[edgy nebula]

masks are either a fake, created face, or a real shell exoskeleton face

[sinful nimbus]

awesome

[vestal swan]

Why did you edit this post to be even more obnoxious

[edgy nebula]

theyre both interchangeable

[sinful nimbus]

Have you beaten first sinner because masks are in fact part of the weavers' bodies

[hexed kindle]

i wonder why hornet doesnt have weaver blades probably cus herra mightve not had them

[edgy nebula]

we also have no reason to think that weaver's masks are fake, so it can be assumed her real head was straight ripped off

[hexed kindle]

mb

[vestal swan]

We literally see first sinners mask grow with her, the term is often used with or in place of face

[sinful nimbus]

Yes?

[vestal swan]

Why is this concept so hard to grasp for people

[edgy nebula]

that is a piece of cloth, i think

[vestal swan]

I feel like pulling my own face off every time I have this conversation

[sinful nimbus]

Weavers have a biological mask that obscures the interior of their head

[edgy nebula]

i dont think that's her real face unless im mistaken

[sinful nimbus]

Hahahahaha get it

[vestal swan]

It looks like a fur TBH but yeah

[hexed kindle]

Yes its just silky flesh on the inside

[foggy fractal]

pulling your face off ? like... a mask... ?

[vestal swan]

Andy, star, get in the wood chipper

[edgy nebula]

what are we? some kinda mask makers?

[foggy fractal]

insert that skeleton getting crushed by the machine gif

[timber pond]

Probably had to take off her weaver mask to put the dreamer one on

[edgy nebula]

maybe, we dont know shit about herrah

[sinful nimbus]

That is the unfortunate implication of Herrah being retconned into a weaver yes

OK and

[vestal swan]

Herra head is different because we see her before the mask is on her face in the red memory, and the mask does not cover her horns and it never did

[hexed kindle]

different species of weaver which expalains the lack of weaver hand blades

[sinful nimbus]

Their faces are called masks this doesn't change the fact that this isn't indicated to matter to their identity like at all

[vestal swan]

Sinner, herra

[edgy nebula]

i think we should discuss how herrah sees out of the mask, there's no opening in the cloth and with it being covered by the dreamer mask itd be real hard to see

[timber pond]

Well if Herrah can remove her mask, and the dreamer mask gives her sanity back. Then it might prove that having A mask is important and not the fact that its a weaver mask

[sinful nimbus]

Its not an accurate depiction of Herrah, Hornet can't remember her actual face

[vestal swan]

But this is part of their body

These are not things they adopted to change personality

They were born with them

[timber pond]

Mabye that's why Hrrah acts diffrent than other weavers actually lol

[sinful nimbus]

Magic masks can alter identity that does not mean everything called a mask does that

Also the implication of this theory would be that GMS formed weavers with masks that obscure their inherent love for GMS which is absurd

[hexed kindle]

Its weird how GMS looks oddly humanoid

[vestal swan]

Nothing is suggesting Herra ever took a mask off in the first place

[sinful nimbus]

Dreamers aren't a renunciation of an identity lol what are you talking about

She's still a weaver

[timber pond]

Not necessarily. Weaver masks could just make them a certain kind of cunning ,or rather enhance an aspect and not the whole.

[sinful nimbus]

Baseless

[hexed kindle]

https://tenor.com/view/silksong-hollow-knight-grand-mother-silk-gif-13952615901513641049

[timber pond]

Widow is is fucking insane without one. And herrah is clearly altered

[vestal swan]

How is that oddly humanoid compared to literally every other anthropomorphic bipedal bug in the game

[worldly jolt]

i think that might be the case cuz there are other weavers with masks similar as hers like the stalking devouts

wait really-

[sinful nimbus]

Herrah's identity isn't indicated to have been altered at all and Widow being insane isn't indicated to be a result of her losing her mask

[coarse walrus]

What if the fleas are really radiance offspring somehow

[worldly jolt]

ohh

[foggy fractal]

why do some bugs have humanoid hands I wonder

[sinful nimbus]

Its not like Herrah became a GMS loving freak when she doesn't have her mask on

[hexed kindle]

herrahs mask is just weirdly shaped

[vestal swan]

Art style, TK still has little nubs but thk has fingers

[timber pond]

Well we don't know what herrah looked like in the past when she was a weaver in pharloom

[coarse walrus]

any relation

[hexed kindle]

also RETCONN

[foggy fractal]

Qurriel does NOT deserve fingers...

[vestal swan]

For like the third time nothing suggests Herra took off her Weaver mask

She always looked different

[sinful nimbus]

GMS doesn't influence weavers like that?

[vestal swan]

The red memory having a fuzzy mask does not change the shape of her head I'm sorry to tell you, her head was always that shape

[sinful nimbus]

Is the implication that the mask prevents her from taking control or something

[timber pond]

Idk team cherry Base entire lore off subitle implications in artistic choice and herrah/ widdow both don and cloth to hide something.🤷

[sinful nimbus]

This all seems awfully baseless

[manic pewter]

I mean the cutscene where GMS raised the weavers seems to suggest that their heads being big and round is just how they look

[vestal swan]

Yes that is their biological head

She has two pins in her spine she can move around still

[sinful nimbus]

She's... not. She's mutilated

[manic pewter]

Widow isnt FINE, she has gone crazy

[vestal swan]

Pulling off your face is not fatal

[sinful nimbus]

Her body is also damaged anyone with two eyes can deduce that

[manic pewter]

Yeah masks are shown and said to help give bugs identity

[timber pond]

Its more like it allows her TO BE controlled because her identity is looser now

[sinful nimbus]

"Why does the lunatic with her face ripped off not show any signs of a damaged body?"

[hexed kindle]

also Its very possible that herrah is part weaver as she was able to give birth something not alot of weavers can do

[foggy fractal]

she's 100%

[hexed kindle]

matter of fact she is

[timber pond]

There are no genders in hollow knight just masks😎

[vestal swan]

Hornet cannot be half Weaver if her mother is also half or lesser

They mark a distinction depending on how far down the bloodline is and hornet is called a half Weaver

[sinful nimbus]

Mask Makers are an allegory for gender affirming care duh

[manic pewter]

Yeah bc the bit with the cages in cradle says like "weaver in eighth part" or whatever

[hexed kindle]

Probably just a weirdly dysmorphed weaver then

as i said species

[vestal swan]

No

Not as you said what you said did not make sense

[sinful nimbus]

What they don't tell you is PK is part weaver too

[manic pewter]

lmaooo

[timber pond]

Although, That would be a werid allegory considering they are also judging at the same time based on thier interpretation

[hexed kindle]

elaborate

[vestal swan]

Yes her face being removed is responsible for the condition of her face not being there

[vestal swan]

I did already

[sinful nimbus]

Same game that made the environmental conservationists evil and its main character a raging racist... Maybe TC is far right

stuff like ts is why TC should've never retconned anything

[manic pewter]

Yes the game where ppl comment on the steam page saying "the lgbtq stuff is getting tiring, cant you put in more normal relationships"

[hexed kindle]

litreally what i meant

[vestal swan]

The only way to misinterpret that cutscene is thinking that her head is not part of her body like I've seen way too many times in the last week

[sinful nimbus]

Herrah looks like that because she was retconned into a weaver and she is the only example of a weaver that looks like that because of the aforementioned retcon

[manic pewter]

Also idk how much yall want to trust this but in the game files first sinner is called first weaver and the cutscene with the pharlid looks a lot like her with the broken head and stuff

[vestal swan]

Files aren't canon

[hexed kindle]

What yall think we getting in the steel city dlc also do you think it will be exclusive to steel soul

[sinful nimbus]

Literally Herrah?

[manic pewter]

No not saying they are, thats why i prefaced it with "idk how much yall want to trust this"

[foggy fractal]

until tc gives us an explanation in a dlc TRUST

[hexed kindle]

THE BUMPS

I TOLD YALL

[vestal swan]

You were asking about DLC for like the last 10 minutes

[sinful nimbus]

Bumps got retconned

[hexed kindle]

and nobody cared so i changed topic

[sinful nimbus]

Sharpe 🗣️

Hopefully not steel soul exclusive that would be garbage but atp you can never tell with Team Cherry

[hexed kindle]

?

[worldly jolt]

i've tried steel soul like a trillion times istg if it's steel soul exclusive

[sinful nimbus]

He's a cut backer character that's been foreshadowed in Silksong

[hexed kindle]

all the steel city content so far has been a steel soul exclusive and btw im talking about the seers

[hexed kindle]

OH YEAH i remember now

[manic pewter]

Also the backer hasnt heard anything from TC and apparently was going to contact them or something

[sinful nimbus]

That is also garbage yes and its why I said you can never tell with Team Cherry

[timber pond]

I don't think that stuff is politically driven lol. Bug world has diffrent standards than a human one. Its like if a sea monster came out of the sea to kill me and spit on my family,and me hating them is "racist". Mabye the sea monster was raised in bad envoirnemt? Who knows but they ain't my species dawg, they are fundamentally diffrent.

[vestal swan]

Mr void nose

[lapis creek]

zi being steel soul exclusive is fine what

[hexed kindle]

steel city will probably be half the size or as big as the citadel

[sinful nimbus]

Half of what I said was a joke but if you think this is a fine justification for the flies you seem awfully dense

[lapis creek]

yeah shell satchel is a little bit much but who cares

[hexed kindle]

or bigger

[manic pewter]

Why do you think that

[hexed kindle]

because its a kingdom also theyre probably an offshoot of the godseekers

[sinful nimbus]

"Putting inherently evil slaves in your game is fine because they really are an inferior species"

Average Silkslop fan

[manic pewter]

WOAH WHAT? Offshoot of the seekers?

[hexed kindle]

i saw a theory and it makes sense kinda i guess

[vestal swan]

I promise you it doesn't

[sinful nimbus]

Steel Soul is just bad icl

[hexed kindle]

alr

[sinful nimbus]

The only redeeming factor of this choice is that the quest doesn't look that good anyway

[lapis creek]

steel soul is fine

[timber pond]

I mean it makes sense why most of the bugs hate eachother and want eachother dead in hollow knight is because there are just some species who are incompatible. I wouldn't doubt that the Skarr and the mantis tribes would hate eachothers guts, probably because they would use eacother for resources.

[lapis creek]

i dont think they should put dlc content behind it though

[hexed kindle]

team cherry might go with some steel city lore content being steel soul exclusive

[sinful nimbus]

They're all sapient

[manic pewter]

Uhhhh idk if they are

[foggy fractal]

what ? the slabflies ?

[sinful nimbus]

Justifying hatred towards a sapient group of slaves is a bad thing to put in a game

[timber pond]

Huntress is Sapient but she dosent care who's Organs you give her children to eat😂

Probably similar for alot of bugs in this world tbh

[sinful nimbus]

Yes which is different from slavery which is a real life topic that you have to portray in not racist ways so that you don't come off as a racist 🥴

[manic pewter]

Ok but tbf with huntress the kids eat her instead so i feel like in her situation ppl would do the same

[lapis creek]

nobody said that the mantises aren't xenophobic btw thats pretty important

[foggy fractal]

how come broodling knows language already
why so studious ?

[lapis creek]

but hey they still figured out how to peacefully coexist with hallownest

[timber pond]

Im just saying the bugs in hollow knight do not really care what species the other is even if they are sapient and that most rules are about strength and domination in the first place.

[lapis creek]

interesting theory

[sinful nimbus]

Why don't you back it up with a source

[lapis creek]

hornet, in writing, expresses that she hopes to have contributed to the genocide of the flies

[vestal swan]

The mantises arent xenophobic? They don't like Invaders and they immediately change their tune when TK shows honor and accepts their defeat

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet calls for the genocide of the slabflies in her journal

[lapis creek]

i think some xenophobia is implied by the ze'mer story

as well as the fact that they just don't expect outsiders to have any honour

[hexed kindle]

because they kinda run the slab

[timber pond]

The fact that every being wants to dominate the other? That the gods/Leaders of this world that give that Sapience all act that way? Lol unless you are a plant or a slug

[sinful nimbus]

She says they should stop breeding which is eugenics

[vestal swan]

I feel like I shouldn't need to say this but not caring about who you kill and eat kind of like the opposite of racism? Everybody is equal opportunity food, the problem is hornet's dialogue in the journal being specifically about them

[foggy fractal]

Here's the dialogues btw

The less these gruesome bugs breed, the better. - Freshfly

Foul creatures birthed into servitude. Their plight elicits no sympathy from me. - Scabfly

Disgusting both in manner and stench. I feel no remorse to see them felled. - Wardenfly

With this one vanquished, I hope to have sped the end for that jail and its distasteful order. - Broodmother

[vestal swan]

Her dad is the guy who disagreed with their politics and left to go kill the local God

[lapis creek]

you forgot the one about how the slaves have never thought to shower

[sinful nimbus]

As slaves

[lapis creek]

what

[hexed kindle]

true

[sinful nimbus]

Also people doing something bad on a cultural level isn't justification for genocide and oh my god why does this need to be explained in 2025

[hexed kindle]

this doesnt need to be explained

[vestal swan]

Do you really think the issue is with the Mantis Lords and not the Mantis traitor ? She left with her dad or was taken, who do you think put a wedge in between that relationship really

That would also be extremely strange for the renowned knight to not be one of Honor

[lapis creek]

oh thats what you mean

i thought all this happened before they left to accept the infection

[vestal swan]

TL was def wearing a MHGA hat but I don't think the sisters are like that

[sinful nimbus]

Yet I've had to explain it multiple times in this channel including to you

[manic pewter]

The fact that she says "its distateful order" kinda suggests that she is only referring to the flies that live in the slab, i dont necessarily think its saying the entire race of flies is evil and needs to be eradicated

[sinful nimbus]

But the flies inside of the slab are their own group of bugs who are not inherently evil in fact and should not be victims of genocide

Duh

[timber pond]

Gruz mother is a fly isn't it? The slab flies might be horribly deformed lol

[manic pewter]

Like "disgusting in both manner and stench" seems to suggest that shes also drawing issue with their specific behaviours

[vestal swan]

Even the weavers who seem inherently evil were made that way

[sinful nimbus]

Yes the slaves don't shower so they shouldn't breed

[vestal swan]

twisted I should say

[lapis creek]

ok this helps

[manic pewter]

If anything, it feels more like a cult than a race. And hornet eradicating a cult isnt the same as supporting genocide, I think we just have a fundamental disagreement here

[lapis creek]

genocide is ok when deformed

[timber pond]

Idk I just dont think the slab flies really draw on any particular real world equivalents in the same way and comparing it to real life slavery feels disjointed.

[sinful nimbus]

What?

You know they are "born into servitude" IE slaves right

And the moment you have to explain why slaves shouldn't breed actually is probably the moment you should leave the internet and go outside

Crazy mental gymnastics

[velvet bolt]

I think Hornet’s hatred is largely born from the fact that they stole her most precious possessions and stripped her naked, humiliating her

[manic pewter]

I? Never said slaves shouldnt have kids what?

[velvet bolt]

There is a reason she doesn’t kill the newborn brood mother though

[lapis creek]

thats just not true though they dont do this in every playthrough

[sinful nimbus]

But you are saying the slabflies (who are slaves) shouldn't breed

[timber pond]

And spit on her unprovoked really lol

[manic pewter]

I never said that lol

[sinful nimbus]

Yes you did

[manic pewter]

Yeah like hornet could just execute broodling, and she doesnt

[velvet bolt]

That said, it’s very funny to me that people think Hornet is racist so I’ll allow it lol

[manic pewter]

Ok i'm leaving, if youre just gonna make up shit youre not worth my time

[sinful nimbus]

Backpedaling is crazy

[sterile jacinth]

Block them they do this shit a lot

[sinful nimbus]

Internet users when they realize people can scroll up and read their messages

[velvet bolt]

People really be out here glazing the flies 😭

[sinful nimbus]

Well yes they aren't doing anything wrong they are brainwashed slaves

[lapis creek]

yeah star you bitch why are you such a miserable conversationalist

[sinful nimbus]

I'm not really sure why people are so keen to defend Hornet saying the brainwashed slaves shouldn't breed and that she doesn't feel bad for the children born into the system

[timber pond]

Right and hornet is killing all the brainwashed slaves (like she does the whole game) and leaves alive the one that isn't. Lol.

[velvet bolt]

BORN TO DIE WORLD IS A FUCK 鬼神 Kill Em All 1989 I am spider woman 410,757,864,530 DEAD FLIES

[sinful nimbus]

But she advocates for genocide

[timber pond]

She murders 90% of pharloom that is haunted

[sinful nimbus]

Saying a group of slaves should stop breeding is eugenics, which is genocide, therefore Hornet is advocating for genocide

Not that hard to wrap your head around is it?

[velvet bolt]

And she should.

[lapis creek]

i wouldnt equate eugenics to genocide but she does take measures to stop them from breeding and express that it was her intent

[sinful nimbus]

Yes because you need to actively kill people to support genocide...?

No obviously that's not true why does this need to be said

[silk dirge]

bro can someone put this as a fucking bug report or something so we can stop having this discussion every few seconds or some shit

[timber pond]

Perhaps the reason the flies are the way they are is because of the current broodmother. So she executes all of them and let's the brooding free.

[lapis creek]

she doesnt follow through by killing a child so she was never a racist

[velvet bolt]

To be more serious, what Hornet actually did was eliminate the cult, yeah

[lapis creek]

do we need to get the un definition of genocide again

[sinful nimbus]

Eugenics = Genocide

[lapis creek]

under 4

[sinful nimbus]

Um

You're kinda an idiot to put it bluntly

[lapis creek]

the journal entry establishes intent and item 4 is the action taken

[silk dirge]

this is completely serious btw

[sinful nimbus]

"saying x group of slaves shouldn't breed isn't advocating for genocide"

[lapis creek]

she kills the being that spawns all the slabflies

[foggy fractal]

🐛 report

[lapis creek]

to her knowledge upon killing the broodmother she has successfully committed genocide

[sinful nimbus]

Putting it in a bug report won't stop people from being evil idiots ig

Yes so its okay to think eugenics is good got it

[silk dirge]

just move the dialog to fucking driznits or some shit

[sinful nimbus]

If you don't act out genocide but merely advocate for it are you REALLY evil?

[velvet bolt]

Yes.

[timber pond]

Nah that shits lame this is fun

[lapis creek]

i agree with scoot that eugenics and genocide are not the same thing, one is a set of beliefs and the other is a set of actions

[timber pond]

She's not acting on that and there is LITTERALY no one else to misinterpret her own fucking book of creatures she's executed.😭

[silk dirge]

but they are very likely to lead into eachother

neither is good

[velvet bolt]

It’s good when it’s flies, actually.

[sinful nimbus]

Eugenics is part of genocide and advocating for its use on a race is advocating for genocide so the distinction doesn't really matter

[lapis creek]

unfortunately she takes the actions and expresses the intent behind them in a way that aligns almost perfectly with the definition of genocide agreed upon by the united nations

[velvet bolt]

Hornet war crimes

[sinful nimbus]

Its a deeply evil set of beliefs and anyone defending it because its written in a diary or whatever is a moron

[velvet bolt]

https://tenor.com/view/ehe-anime-gif-anime-girl-teehee-gif-27178660

[silk dirge]

ok killing broodmother is fine bc shes haunted having those journal entries is not

she would be fine killing them even if they werent haunted is what those journal entries say

[lapis creek]

sure but if you say eugenics = genocide you're being imprecise and opening yourself up to certain avoidable criticisms

[foggy fractal]

thankfully the united nations doesn't exist in Pharloom... or does it...

[timber pond]

Its probably a belief in this fictional bug world because every god enslaves litteraly everyone in some capacity. Yea,its wrong in the real world, but this is bug world, bugs dont give a shit.😂

[lapis creek]

well yeah but we are saying hornet belongs in the hague

[sinful nimbus]

Its abundantly clear what I meant so idrc if someone stupid doesn't understand it

[silk dirge]

alright whos doing it

[foggy fractal]

you brought it up you do it lmao

[sinful nimbus]

But those gods are bad and you kill them because they are evil

[opaque parcel]

forebrothers sigma and gronk

[silk dirge]

i have shit to do rn 😭

[foggy fractal]

just do it later

[silk dirge]

idk why im talking here

[foggy fractal]

god knows the discussion will return

[sinful nimbus]

"Bad people exist so its not really that bad for the main character to be a raging racist"

[velvet bolt]

Yes.

[sinful nimbus]

Yea because Silksong fans are idiots with no media literacy

[silk dirge]

i got the idea from powdered 😭

powdered said he was gonna fucking bug report plasmium dialog

[timber pond]

Inherently "evil" (trying to live) based on hornets own statements yes. Litteraly they way they subsist is to be "Evil" to lesser creatures with the only exception being the pale king who ended up fucking pepole over anyway.

[humble peak]

hey guys what's the topic

[sinful nimbus]

They don't need to live to do that and surprise Pale Beings all being evil is yet another bad addition to the lore

[lapis creek]

i think it helps to be precise when we talk about genocide but it's up to you honestly

[silk dirge]

slab fly racism

[humble peak]

sick

[velvet bolt]

You can always commit deicide. It’s never racist

[sinful nimbus]

Sure

[timber pond]

Its just going to anoy team cherry and do nothing but hurt actual bugs being reported. Kinda stupid ngl.

[velvet bolt]

You can also always kill flies. It’s never racist

[silk dirge]

depends on the type of fly

you can murder as many red coral flies as you want sure

not slab flies tho

[lapis creek]

i also think accusing hornet of advocacy for genocide is a little bit generous, like why stop there? you can show that hornet commits genocide without stretching the definition

[opaque parcel]

ok guys can we be less serious and have fun about this fun game, sorry if this is bad but i wanna hear people coming up with slurs for groal and showing footage of killing lost lace in 3 seconds

[humble peak]

we have other channels for that

[lapis creek]

groal is awesome fym

[opaque parcel]

oh shit

[timber pond]

Hornet just kills everyone. Lmao

[opaque parcel]

sorry fyck i thought his was #sk-discussion

[humble peak]

lmao

[foggy fractal]

groal would be better if he was humble

[silk dirge]

top 10 mistakes of all time

[velvet bolt]

I came in here for an actual lore question anyone want it

[humble peak]

groal the modest

[timber pond]

Ok what

[humble peak]

i'll bite

[velvet bolt]

So like, when you die, what’s going on with the cocoon hornet leaves

[timber pond]

Void gang has taken over

[silk dirge]

anyways what other dialog should be bug reported while were at it

[humble peak]

we don't know

[velvet bolt]

Is that a shade inside, when you break it?

[timber pond]

You are just coping man😭

[silk dirge]

idk if powdered actually every bug reported the plasmium dialog or was just joking 😭

[humble peak]

there are a few typos
I know a notable one has been patched alreadya t least

[lapis creek]

yeah but she doesn't do this to everyone

[foggy fractal]

nah Hornet isn't void, it's just black

[worldly jolt]

i feel like it has something to do with the weaver queen ending or something cuz she has the same pose

wait is it weaver queen i forgot the name

[velvet bolt]

What would you call that black thing, then? If it’s not a shade, what is it?

[timber pond]

Not sure. There is a theroy that Shades are regrets manifest. Which ties into a whole theroy about void being regrets over lifetimes. But there isn't really a difinitve answer and nothing to point towards that

[humble peak]

some argue the black dust may be related to void in that it's formed from regrets
but idk if there's enough to support that

[velvet bolt]

Oh, right, the dialogue in the first game about regrets?

[dry bridge]

not a shade because it's not alive, I'd call it hornet's regrets wrapped in a cocoon

[humble peak]

idk man
just her body ig

[velvet bolt]

Hmm. I could see that, but yeah, I was wondering because we know for a fact hornet isn’t a child of the void

[humble peak]

yeah, Jiji and the Shade journal

[dry bridge]

hornet's cocoons aren't ever really talked about by anyone as far as I remember, unline jiji talking about the knight's shade

[velvet bolt]

Yeah

[humble peak]

only a sister ;)

[velvet bolt]

The mechanic to get back your stuff from the cocoons doesn’t say anything about what’s contained inside it

[humble peak]

they also have no journal entry
or an entity very similar in nature, appearance, and background with their own entry

they're just there

[velvet bolt]

Just that your simp makes delicious silk eaters for his mistressssss

Regrets inside sounds pretty reasonable tho

[timber pond]

Again don't know about that one, could just be hornets imprint or whatever.

[humble peak]

It is kinda funny how the shades in HK were rather diagetic (save for you being able to respawn and stuff) while in SS it's kinda just
Yeah idk spiders weave cocoons don't they?
(I'm pretty sure they don't)

"yeah whatever it's silk just throw that there"

[timber pond]

The Shade and cocoon might represent "regrets" in the same way that the pale king had "foresight" like hornet and the knight see a future where they die while sleeping on a bench and regret it or something

[muted lantern]

spiders cocoon their prey in some cases

[humble peak]

hm
fun thoughts but feels baseless

[humble peak]

oh yeah true

[timber pond]

Like its not a tangible thing to anyone else really

[muted lantern]

at least they wrap em up

[worldly jolt]

it makes sense but it doesn't explain the cocoon tbh

i don't know i think there might just not be an explanation

[timber pond]

Could just be hornet wrapping her "regret" in a cocoon or something idk

Part of her training? Who knows

[worldly jolt]

maybe it just doesn't make sense cuz it appears in the real world

[timber pond]

Hornet Anime past training arc DLC with Vespa insider her own memory or something would be the only way to confirm that

[worldly jolt]

that's kinda fire i hope they do that

[velvet bolt]

Vespa training montage would go hard

[humble peak]

We're definitely getting a Vespa boss in some DLC

[manic pewter]

Theres always that discussion that steel soul is the actual canon world so that kinda just sweeps cocoon under the rug

[worldly jolt]

i don't really think it makes sense tbh

[velvet bolt]

The fact that both exist would suggest that neither is canon

Because the thing is, if the idea is “the protagonist is canonically never defeated” is true, that doesn’t have to happen in a steel soul run

It can happen in a regular run just as well

[manic pewter]

oh true true

from the ppl ive discussed with that argue that its usually to resolve the steel soul specific NPCs like Zi

[humble peak]

Yeah I think people got a bit carried away with things
It started with "Steel Soul is how the game canonically works" referring to how when you die in Steel Soul in HK your shade just heads back down to the Abyss vs sticking around and you respawn
But then people started extending that to "Steel Soul is the canon timeline/whatever" with implications like "Jiji isn't there but Jin is" and "Tuk is dead"

[velvet bolt]

The problem is that there are both regular mode and steel soul specific NPCs

Styx being one example of a character who is not in Steel Soul

[manic pewter]

Yeah totally not saying i agree with this, just suggesting what ive heard ppl say

i personally have no idea lol

[velvet bolt]

(Skynx’s dialogue suggests, contrary to some claims, that it killed Styx and took his mask)

[manic pewter]

Oh yeah the dead corpse below where styx was is called "farmer" or something in the files i dont really remember but yeah, styx prolly dead asf

again files arent canon but ya

[worldly jolt]

never reached that far into steel soul and i always wondered why skynx looked like that

[velvet bolt]

Also just that it repeats dialogue and the Styx style dialogue is begging for mercy

Which suggests that it is echoing Styx’s final words as it killed him

[manic pewter]

We love our cringe-fail femboy styx

[velvet bolt]

Styx my beloved

[humble peak]

I don't think whether Styx is alive or dead at the point we encounter him in Silksong, or the same for Tuk in HK, or whether the Steel guys are around or not really matters in the grand scheme.
They both represent a potential state of the world and which one the protagonist encounters has no major impact on the greater story, so it works either way.

[velvet bolt]

i think he is my favorite npc in Silksong. genuinely helpful and he asks for nothing in return

[humble peak]

I mean hell the entire ending for the last game is kinda up in the air depending on interpretation

[humble peak]

femboy?? 😭

[velvet bolt]

Definitely a femboy

Put striped thigh highs on every one of his big bug legs

[manic pewter]

Yeah ive seen some ppl call him an incel but like, thats just not true, he's just like wants to be helpful to his saviour

[manic pewter]

oh my god i have artist friends i should comission this

[velvet bolt]

he is a lightsided simp

[humble peak]

Do you guys think mossbag is cooking up something crazy or is he just stuck on Trobbio or something?

[worldly jolt]

isn't he making a game or something

[humble peak]

he is??

[worldly jolt]

says so on his twitter

[velvet bolt]

neat

also “stuck on trobbio” is crazy

[worldly jolt]

LOL

[foggy fractal]

well nothing to worry about now since silksong is out and that game isn't

[velvet bolt]

he got trobbed on

[lapis creek]

he definitely beat the game

[velvet bolt]

can i say something controversial

[worldly jolt]

sure

[velvet bolt]

Upon recent rewatches of mossbag’s videos I think his obnoxious humor really undermines the content even if it is lore accurate

all his old HK videos feel super dated

[worldly jolt]

is yaoi allowed.................

aw

[muted lantern]

does hornet x second sentinel count as yuri even though secsens genderless.

[velvet bolt]

there aren’t enough fat bitches in silksong

[muted lantern]

then that or shaknet seem like cute dynamics, but im not super into shipping at least with silksong.

[velvet bolt]

lace is a cartoonish hourglass figure

big thighs ≠ fat

[muted lantern]

oh god i can sense the conversation is going to happen again

[velvet bolt]

im talking like at least Cloth sized

go big or go home

Hornet likes the FLUFF

[worldly jolt]

holy PEAK

[velvet bolt]

Better, but no dynamic 😔

[muted lantern]

I think those are supposed to be puffy fencer pants

[velvet bolt]

In truth though yeah, I don’t really get ship vibes from anyone in SS

aside from like

the green prince and his lover

eh

One sided at best

[muted lantern]

Idk how people read lace's ragebaiting as flirtacious

[velvet bolt]

Hornet’s journal notes give me the vibe that she is tired and burnt out on romance

[lapis creek]

lace being a child in literally every line

[velvet bolt]

Girl has been through enough

[lapis creek]

true!

[muted lantern]

watching all your lovers grow old and die (or die horribly and never grow old) does that to you

[worldly jolt]

that's kinda how i see it cuz she literally taunts at you sometimes in battle

[muted lantern]

not fond of that ship

I don't really think any of the writing of the game was intended as her being flirtacious.

[velvet bolt]

Like no hate to those who ship it but it definitely isn’t textual to me

I think Hornet in specific is probably looking for a different type, if anything. Given how unstable and dramatic her life has been

I feel like what she would really want is someone simple without all that drama and struggle going on

[muted lantern]

again, doesn't read as flirting, teasing and taunting doesn't really need to have a romantic connotation. Lace spends the whole game trying to get a rise out of hornet, using terms of endearment in a sarcastic manner to mock her.

[velvet bolt]

Eva honestly has more of a vibe to me when I think about it, yeah

It’s just there’s a tragedy as, while Eva is a more stable person, she is trapped in a sarcophagus and will die without it

That’s kind of what I mean tho. Eva has the right personality but her whole situation is so fragile

Lace was also extremely close to death as well

if not for Hornet’s own going out of her way to save her, but saving her was less for Lace’s own sake and more for the good of everyone in Pharloom

She can be brutally utilitarian in that way. Not unlike her dad, even

If the Grand Mother hadn’t thrown a massive fit over it, there wouldn’t really have been a reason for her to go dive in and save Lace

[muted lantern]

I mean a character can also just be being an ass, i don't think every person who taunts someone is automatically in love with them.

[stark halo]

i cant believe no one's brought up shakra

[opaque parcel]

so since silk contains memories, does that mean that theoretically hornet could look into any bug's silk from the haunting and like see their memories? or is that sm bullshit correlation

[muted lantern]

its a cute ship, I definitely see the vision with that one

[velvet bolt]

Not to say she wouldn’t have been grateful to Lace for helping her out but if GMS hadn’t lashed out and caused everything to get voided as a result, but I don’t see Hornet as being particularly attached to Lace, certainly not enough to rescue her if it weren’t for her mom’s dying actions

Grip on Pharloom

I didn’t get the impression she was talking about saving Lace for her own sake specifically 🤷

[muted lantern]

She compares lace to her thk in multiple instances. so i think shes attached to her in the sense that she sees a lot of her lost sibling in her.

[velvet bolt]

That seems like more of the vibe yeah

[muted lantern]

she also says lace can die if she wants in the same conversation

[velvet bolt]

Hornet has more of a theme of siblinghood in general than romance

[opaque parcel]

i mean kinda like dream bosses that hornet could look into previously fought bosses memories and fight them again? not like karmelita or those bosses but like judge or sister splinter. That could be a cool interaction for a DLC

[velvet bolt]

More dream bosses/areas would be cool

I’d really like to see pre-pollution Bilewater

[worldly jolt]

omg you're so right

imagine there was one for like putrified ducts and we could see the dead pinstress or something

[velvet bolt]

I think it would really help to sell exactly why the residents are so hostile to see what it used to be

like that whole area but it’s not crawling with roaches and maggots and the water is swimmable

And the enemies don’t explode after death

It’d be comparatively easier but that’s exactly why it’d be cool

[opaque parcel]

i think they could have some other fun ways to make it harder like more speed or different attacks

[velvet bolt]

Yea

Bilewater is practically begging for one, to me

[muted lantern]

back when it was just called water

[velvet bolt]

• i think it would be interesting to see groal as an npc

if it’s before the pollution

I see him being a much more reasonable character

[stark halo]

there would be some interesting contrast if, say, it was the haunting that caused him to betray the snail shaman

[velvet bolt]

I see his slaying of the shaman as the work of a jaded leader whose trust has been thoroughly broken

groal is a king in rags. He’s interesting in that way

I really wish he had like. More of a character

[wild zinc]

Also since it’s canon now that all the weavers now are apparently infertile and have it really difficult to have children then how tf did the pale king get herrah pregnant is wyrm sperm just that potent

[stark halo]

yes, but much like the infection in the original hk the haunting appears to have a mental component - it could be interpreted as exaggerating existing tendencies, for instance

[stark halo]

yeah I mean I think that was the whole point of the deal; Herrah was probably aware that pk was one of the few ways she could have a child

[wild zinc]

Oh really that’s it? I would’ve guessed he used magic or something to do it but I guess he’s just that powerful

[stark halo]

it's kinda ambiguous tc is unlikely to give us details on how he got her pregnant lmao

but since hornet is part wyrm it's not a wholly magical procedure

• if it was just magic white lady wouldn't have referred to his activities with Herrah as a dalliance

[muted lantern]

I mean he's a god so the spyrm is probably pretty potent yeah.

[wild zinc]

Anyways speaking of herrah my headcanon for her looking so different to all the other weavers is that she was a really fat pharlid before she got evolved

https://tenor.com/view/yummers-a-train-homelander-the-boys-fat-gif-27701858

[regal crow]

I’m confused by the khann aftermath. These are just memories, right? Yet the body disappeared like we actually killed him

[wild zinc]

Because you did

He was alive just really crusty and hornet killed him

[regal crow]

Ah

So, it’s time travel?

[wild zinc]

No

[regal crow]

Now I’m really confused

[wild zinc]

She’s just taking their hearts which kills them in the present because she’s like taking their essence or something their vitality

Khann is the second gay man Hornet has killed btw she’s not beating the allegations

[grand star]

HK bugs are human sized right?

[regal crow]

Ooooohhhh

[regal crow]

Plenty of evidence she’s racist too

[muted lantern]

Hornet is racist, homophobic, abelist, and throws children in lava

[regal crow]

Wait, doesn’t she throw everyone in lava?

[grand star]

they have noses/noseholes (example: sly, nailmasters)
we don’t see spiracles on them
they also aren’t strong compared to their weight, as they tend to wield weapons smaller than themselves
high strength to mass ratio is present in most insect-sized things

[muted lantern]

I was referencing the first lace fight lol

[regal crow]

Ah

[stark halo]

the elegy of the deep brings a power back to their peak and then harvests it until nothing remains

oops sorry I was scrolled back

[stark halo]

khann is what

[wild zinc]

Well ok khann isn’t canonically gay he just gives me that vibe

[grand star]

i’m assume they have noseholes because i don’t know what the fuck else they would be

[muted lantern]

I just realized why the fuck does she have hair

[grand star]

this matters because noseholes are required in larger animals due to how bad spiracles are at moving oxygen in larger creatures

[grand star]

bugs have hands in this game

and noseholes

we aren’t really dealing with real insects here

[muted lantern]

Honestly aside from throwing lace in lava, hornet murks a lot of other children in this game, the little flies, the driftlin, the skarr scouts, the baby judges, etc

[stark halo]

oh i thought i was missing some critical lore lmfao

[stark halo]

could just be part of her mask

[muted lantern]

marissa also has hair

[stark halo]

wig

[grand star]

what the fuck even is this

[regal crow]

Why fleas so insanely durable?

[wild zinc]

She literally kills 1 second old babies in the broodmother fight

[stark halo]

pregnant

[midnight zinc]

Hornet spent all of her time in Hallownest killing every nonbinary sibling she had, I think it’s wraps for her

[regal crow]

An abomination from hk1

[muted lantern]

they are 99% fluff, all the impact of an attack is absorbed.

[grand star]

it looks like a marine animal

[midnight zinc]

An easy boss

[muted lantern]

its basically a giant maggot

[regal crow]

It’s a nest for flukes, weird experiments from city of tears

[midnight zinc]

Experiments?

[regal crow]

You know white ward?

[midnight zinc]

Yeah that has nothing to do with the royal waterways lmao

[regal crow]

According to Wanderer’s Journal, they’re escaped experiments from Soul sanctum

[midnight zinc]

What

[wild zinc]

They should add an update to hollow knight that does nothing except add maggot water to the royal waterways

[regal crow]

No wait, maybe I’m getting them mixed up with the flying ones

[grand star]

wait i looked it up

apparently there are flatworms called flukes

and they’re parasites

apparently one species evolved eusociality like ants

with reproductive flukes and sterile flukes

[regal crow]

Flukemarm the thing’s called, the nest

[regal crow]

Evolved what

[grand star]

the sterile flukes are soldiers like soldier ants

[midnight zinc]

Yeah that’s straight up not in the game, the flukes were not made in the soul sanctum

You’re thinking of the Mistakes and Follies

[regal crow]

Yeah, mb

[grand star]

so i’m guessing flukes are based on the real-life flukes and planarians (flatworms that can regenerate into 2 bodies after being cut in half)

[regal crow]

You can blame the similar name for that (fluke = mistake or accident)

[midnight zinc]

And even those aren’t quite a Whiteward situation, because they were the bugs from the Sanctum who just bit off more than they could chew, and had their bodies morphed by their use of soul, they didn’t test it on unwilling bugs

What they did do was kill a bunch of bugs to get that soul

[wild zinc]

They should’ve called the poem at the start of the game pharlooms follie

[midnight zinc]

Pharloom’s Phollie would be even better

PP for short

[humble peak]

You know "follies" is just the plural of "folly" right?

[sterile jacinth]

I think they’re joking

[dry bridge]

Just connected a couple dots and realized that GMS could probably see, sense, and modify crests.

I'm specifically connecting the weavenest mugrlein harp's use of "you may escape at last her silken sight" and Eva's needolin dialogue of "Our silken sight..." and assuming the latter refers to eva's ability to peer into a bug's soul/crest/nature and that both quotes refer to the same concept due to using the same "silken sight" language

[sterile jacinth]

Oooh interesting

That makes sense I think

Idk if that would matter to gms lol

She might be able to tell whatever crest Hornet is using is not her own nature (minus hunter)

[dry bridge]

Being a godlike being, gms' ability is probably a lot grander than eva's, and I think that it's through the same sort of function that eva helps hornet evolve her own hunter's crest that grand mother silk uplifted pharlids into weavers, as seen in the first sinner memory. But on a god scale, since it's uplifting rather than unearthing bits of hornet's nature that is awakening as she binds mkre

[stark halo]

i'm not sure modification is a part of it (eva refers to it as 'offering clarity', which is pretty vague but implies she's showing hornet how to do it more than she is using her sight to modify hornet), but i do think that the silken sight is probably referring to the same ability

[humble peak]

this is honestly a pretty strong theory

also recall there's text suggesting Eva was meant to "mimic" GMS (or "divinity")

so that her abilities would resemble hers is plausible

I really like the connection of Eva evolving Hornet's crests with GMS evolving the Pharlids into Weavers

[sterile jacinth]

The hunter crest as it is upgrades also “evolves”
It gets more eyes and horns

[dry bridge]

Thats true, in eva's case she's offering clarity to hornet's nature, while in gms' case she was using her silken sight in tandem with pale abilities to completely change the nature of weavers into her adoptive daughters.
What eva has is a lesser version of silk's abilities, sight but not the power to change it beyond unveiling what is just beneath the surface

[sterile jacinth]

Makes sense why Eva can’t really upgrade the other crests. They’re fundamentally not hornets nature

[stark halo]

agree with that, yeah

[stark halo]

its kinda the same number of horns (unless you count the vestigial spikes in the fully evolved version) but they grow to look more like pk's horns/wyrm teeth which i think is neat

[dry bridge]

Silk uses her silken sight to track the weavers, I think. It's presumably why they want to get as far away as possible and also how she knows where to find the ones hiding in far off kingdoms. It's just the specific thing silken sight allows her to track are those crests she'd given the weavers in particular I suppose is what the implication is if I'm right about this

[sterile jacinth]

Regardless it still evolves which I think is really neat

[upbeat fog]

Why does the First Sinner attack you on sight

[vocal garnet]

||Hey, which old heart is best to spare lore wise?||

[stark halo]

from a moral standpoint or a lasting consequences standpoint

[humble peak]

probably karmelita?

[muted lantern]

between karm and green prince its a mixed bag, karmelitas old af and green prince wants to die

[humble peak]

Nyleth and Khan are either dead or effectively dead

GP kinda wants to die and is frankly a bit of an ass (I kinda get it but also like dude)

Karmelita is like
Just old

[muted lantern]

the skarr would probably fare better with karmelita still alive

[vocal garnet]

Yes 🙃

[humble peak]

deadass I think karmelita is the only one that has any merit to being bad to take

like apparently killing her causes all of far fields to wither and die? Which is kinda crazy but like damn

and you know she's just chilling there

[dry bridge]

Wait what

[humble peak]

Did you not meet Gilly?

[stark halo]

from a moral standpoint its kinda weird to kill gp because he doesnt really say he wants to die, you can get to that conclusion sure but that includes dialogue post death which isnt information you should know lol

[dawn sluice]

and killing him has a NET POSITIVE impact of regrowing verdania

[stark halo]

but karmelita has the most negative consequences

[regal crow]

Why Khann the only one in coral tower with a mask?

[stark halo]

gp regrows verdania, yes

[humble peak]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Gilly
read through her dialogue

[muted lantern]

even if he wants to die its not good to kill him, hes just depressed

[vocal garnet]

Isn't far field fading due to the citadel? When you finish act 3, wouldn't that threat go away? Or am I misunderstanding?

[muted lantern]

gilly implies karmelita gives life to the fields

but new life will rise after shes gone

it will just take time

[regal crow]

Tbh, she was already on her way out when we met her

[humble peak]

do we have anything to base this on besides the clovers around his body?
It could definitely be interpreted that way but there are other ways to see it as well

[muted lantern]

I mean we don't know that, she just seems old as fuck

[dawn sluice]

which one of the hearts is the best to take and which is the most negative

[stark halo]

yeah i mean im really confused by the whole "he wants to die" thing to begin with

i get how you can get there though

[regal crow]

She can’t sing, can barely move, weak. She’s definely not long for this world

[dawn sluice]

he seemed pretty fine rotting in a prison and constantly talked about waiting for someone to kill him

[humble peak]

you know you're on your deathbed when you can't sing anymore

[dawn sluice]

but he probably doesnt wanna die

hes just waiting to

[muted lantern]

I mean he wants to be with his lover, it seems to be the implication, but its obviously better to let him grieve and move on, though he'd probably take himself out otherwise

[dawn sluice]

if that makes any sense

[stark halo]

nah just an implication, i think it's a reasonable conclusion but ymmv

[muted lantern]

suicidal ideation basically

[dawn sluice]

yeah

[sterile jacinth]

He is NOT ok. His lover is gone his land is gone. Only reason he isn’t dead is because he’s too prideful to do it himself

[humble peak]

I think you misread what they meant

[dawn sluice]

you misread what i meant

[vocal garnet]

I think Karm and GP both have a mercy + sacrifice for something/someone kind of feeling.

[dry bridge]

I dont know if thats really true, unless shes a higher being. It's likely instead that karmelita had united the skarr and organized them to shape far fields into the march, and without her the remaining skarr will fall back into dispirate tribes and/or gradually wither away

[regal crow]

Why Khann the only one in coral tower with a mask?

[sterile jacinth]

Oops my bad

[dawn sluice]

im laughing at you

[humble peak]

anyway GP is an ass
Every time you try to say something nice to him he just counters it with "yeah well actually everything sucks fuck off"
bro radiates bad vibes

[dawn sluice]

should i kill him just for the memento

[humble peak]

yeah

fuck that guy

[dawn sluice]

actually
which of the old hearts is the BEST memento, or should we just not get a memento and instead spare one of them

[humble peak]

Nyleth is also an ass she gets this whole shrine to watch over the wood but just sleeps through it
Dude? You had one job get the fuck up

[dawn sluice]

small bug: breathing too hard turns lost verdania into nosk verdania

[sterile jacinth]

She’s practically dead

[dawn sluice]

thats pretty much every old heart

[stark halo]

gillys entire quest is to find out why life persists so well in the far fields despite everything else getting choked off and her discovery is that it's karmelita doing it; in setting im pretty sure its just showing us that some mortals have the power to do things normally associated with higher beings but are ultimately limited by their mortality

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah :P

[regal crow]

Why half the bugs in coral tower have no masks?

[humble peak]

Khan is... Khan is kinda cool honestly
He had his thing, his thing ended
He's not an ass

And Karmelita is just chill

[dawn sluice]

khann is practically dead because hes literally dead
nyleth is sleepy
karmelita is so old shed turn into dust in a year
green prince is actively waiting for something to kill him

[sterile jacinth]

Yea they’re not doing the best lol

[dry bridge]

Green prince's death also seems to be a sort of catalyst for the evental regrowth of verdania's ecosystem, given the clovers that sprout around his corpse, so like.

[sterile jacinth]

Their pain is poisoning their lands (especially for gp)

[dawn sluice]

green prince is biodegradable

[sterile jacinth]

You’re not wrong

[regal crow]

Does that mean khann is alive in present day? He looks dead af

[humble peak]

Khan might not be dead dead, I've heard it argued
Main evidence is the others aren't quite dead yet and all the coral people disintegrate when they die, which doesn't happen to Khan until you take the heart

but idk, he definitely seems dead

[sterile jacinth]

He might as well be dead. He’s functionally dead

Not sure if he’s literally dead

[dawn sluice]

maybe hes just really REALLY dry

[stark halo]

im not sure 'the weak should just die' is a qualifiable non-asshole stance lmao

[sterile jacinth]

It’s nuanced for everyone lol

[humble peak]

look
he had his code and stuck to it
there's a type of honour in that

[dawn sluice]

when you're living in pharloom are you really surprised someone has that mentality

[sterile jacinth]

Everyone’s got complicated stories and situations so putting them into boxes is a little short sighted

[dawn sluice]

given that most of the time the weak DO just die

[vocal garnet]

In terms of life in the environment, Is Kahn just a failed Karmelita?

[humble peak]

wdym?

[sterile jacinth]

Karm is still alive

[humble peak]

I don't think Khan was like
the source of the rivers

[vocal garnet]

Coral is not coral, it's sand

[dawn sluice]

a demihigherbeing went in there and went through absolute heck

[dry bridge]

An honour that put him at the top of the heirarchy

[dawn sluice]

a sand of karak

[sterile jacinth]

I think his wellbeing was tied to his land so when he and his armies fell Karak fell alongside it

[humble peak]

Based on what do you say that?

[sterile jacinth]

Mostly Karmelita. You get some dialogue after she’s dead that the lands will die now. And also once green prince is put to rest so does his pain and Verdania regrows. I just think the wellbeing of lands is closely tied to the people living in them

[vocal garnet]

Coral sand is a thing on some beaches.

[humble peak]

As much as I like the "GP's pain was keeping Verdania from regrowing" narrative idk if it has enough textual evidence for us to be treating it as confirmed as it is

Especially when the regrowth is exclusively around his corpse

[sterile jacinth]

That’s why I think it began to regrow. It’s a rebirth. Hornet says far fields will regrow but it will take lifetimes

[dawn sluice]

am i not allowed to funni

[humble peak]

I don't understand

[dawn sluice]

i love how 3 of the old hearts very not subtly impact their environment after dying and then khann dies because of his changing

[sterile jacinth]

Part of the themes are like letting go of old things and these also play a part in those. Once you claim the old hearts you sort of cleanse the land of the hearts memories and pains and regrets and it allows it to regrow not tied to some powerful bug anymore

[stark halo]

its probably reasonable to conclude that the old hearts are in some way a manifestation of the power of their lands; GP's pain didn't necessarily prevent its regrowth but the fact that one of the princes was trapped as the Cogwork Dancers and GP was moping in Sinner's Road could easily be part of why it didn't regrow sooner

[vocal garnet]

Sounds like all the old hearts deserve a fresh start?

[sterile jacinth]

I’m not explaining this well am I

[sterile jacinth]

Yea something like this

[sterile jacinth]

You’re allowing them to rest I think

[humble peak]

But the game strongly presents the claiming of the hearts as a grave cost necessary to save Pharloom, not something intrinsically good.

[sterile jacinth]

Well to allow rebirth something has to die

[muted lantern]

So how the hell can you sharpen a needle with thread

[dawn sluice]

yeah
though i still find it odd how the rest of the old hearts impacted their environment while khann was impacted by the environment

[muted lantern]

is weaver silk like abrasive like steel wool?

[humble peak]

Is there any evidence the Clover Dancers impacted their environment?

[sterile jacinth]

I think they’re hand in hand. Like they impact each other. I bet khanns defeat is partially the reason Karak dried up

[humble peak]

to what do you refer?

[muted lantern]

for context pinmaster plinney uses a wheel of silk instead of a grindstone

for the sharpening cutscene

[humble peak]

mhm

[dry bridge]

Yeah the option is to take the last remannts of great powers that werent gms, or allow her death throes to destroy everything remaining in the kingdom anyway

[dawn sluice]

i thought karak dried up and THEN he got defeated

[muted lantern]

so like is weaver silk abrasive enough to sharped metal???

[sterile jacinth]

It’s not clear but I bet they were at the same time

[humble peak]

based on what do you say his wheel is made of silk??

[dawn sluice]

basically: destroy nearly all traces of civillization and then leave nature to overtake it

[dry bridge]

Well no, there are still people living in pharloom

[humble peak]

we're only destroying the traces of civilization, not civilization itself

;)

[muted lantern]

i mean I mean it certainly looks like its a bunch of silk spooled toghether, the texture doesnt look like stone.

[sterile jacinth]

Also the remaining bugs aren’t super powerful lol

[dry bridge]

And half of these great powers were already decayed by the time hornet reaches there

[stark halo]

for the far fields it's definitively bad, just because it can grow again doesn't mean it will be what it was before. imo, and this is speculation, it's not so much that killing gp restored the land as that rejoining the two hearts reunited verdania's power and gave it a little kick. if that's true it might die again if you use it for the ritual or continue to regrow if you keep it on your shelf

[muted lantern]

it looks like a bunch of individual threads blurred by the motion

[sterile jacinth]

They were all in a pretty bad state

[humble peak]

it could be like steel wool or something idk
it doesn't look like silk to me, looks too grey
silk kinda shines/glows

[sterile jacinth]

The Skarr have all fallen to the haunting. It was only a matter of time Karm would die and fall. Hornet just quickened the process

[dry bridge]

Karak is at best dormant and waiting for raincthat may never come, nyleth's forest is grown wild and untamed, karmelita is withered and her people are haunted, verdana is lost save its lone prince

[humble peak]

I mean
The haunting gets put away once you finish act 3 no?

[muted lantern]

Why would he use steel wool as a grindstone????

[humble peak]

idk!!!

[sterile jacinth]

It’s unclear if the haunted are corpses or not

[muted lantern]

at least the magic silk makes some more sense as its like, magically strong

[dry bridge]

Yes but its not certain what happens to haunted bugs afterwards.

[humble peak]

true

I mean we have a bit to go off of with Bellhart

it seems survival is
not... impossible

[dry bridge]

They might drop dead on the spot, they might return to normal life, it might be split based off how recently they succumbed

[sterile jacinth]

Most of them died tho :P

[humble peak]

yeah

[sterile jacinth]

Maybe some Skarr will live but their tribe will not be to the same glory it once was

Even if Karm was still alive she is a husk of what she once was

[dry bridge]

It might splinter into smaller tribes without a single leader and be a shadow of karmelita's tribe, but I do think they may yet rebuild in some capacity, yeah

[muted lantern]

most of the bellhart residents died after the curse went, and the fact the thread is now voided i think there will be very limited survivors, but possibly some, if they were only recently haunted, as i imagine the haunting didn't encourage the bugs to eat or drink or sleep i doubt they would live long while haunted

especially since they don't need to be alive to be puppeted

[humble peak]

yeah

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah the bugs in the underworks are definitely going to die once the haunting lifts

[humble peak]

why does everyone keep bringing up tha tmost of bellhart died i already mentioned that

[dry bridge]

I would apply the same to rhe karak soldiers (if theyre dormant) when taking the crust king's heart tbh. They can rebuild without his leadership when they reawaken, albeit in a lesser version until unified once more

[muted lantern]

im writing stuff so im popping in and out of the chat, so i don't see everything

[sterile jacinth]

That could be interesting. That’s a very long time to remain dormant

[humble peak]

I mean the watcher seemed fine enough

[dry bridge]

Well we know at least one (watcher at the edge) is rather stiff but alive

[sterile jacinth]

Watcher is a bit unique

[humble peak]

why?

[muted lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/rain-world-rain-world-watcher-gif-15345038142849397779

[silk dirge]

likely death i would imagine

pavo says bellhart being haunted killed a lot of the town

[dry bridge]

Given how theyre all collected together in the tower like a terracotta army around their king, I feel like that suggests either ritual dying, or dormancy

[sterile jacinth]

Well they were given a momento. They were probably chosen because of their strength. I doubt they’d let a regular Karaka do that duty
Also they’re gray

[silk dirge]

so i would imagine if you get fully haunted your cooked

[muted lantern]

Has anyone tried to needolin the bell beast during its battle using save editing? im curious if it has the haunted thread effect above it

[silk dirge]

the guys in bellhart who survived probably managed to stave off the haunting a bit

[humble peak]

they're grey because of the wind, this is established

the other dudes in the tower are shielded from the elements

[sterile jacinth]

Established by who?

[muted lantern]

I think the grey is just them getting literally sandblasted for a century

[muted lantern]

hunters journal iirc

[humble peak]

memento description i think

[sterile jacinth]

Oooh ok cool

[humble peak]

might be both

[sterile jacinth]

They still have a more complicated moveset compared to regular Karaka

[humble peak]

Engraved cruststone, worn by sand and blanched by time.

[sterile jacinth]

So id argue they’re special or chosen in some way

[muted lantern]

okay this is not entirely lore relevant, but if herrah stayed in pharloom, and had hornet there, who would be the father? and would she get trained by karmelita like she would with vespa?

[humble peak]

yeah I think so too, but i think the other guys could well be dormant in a similar maner too

[humble peak]

nonsensical question sorry

[silk dirge]

hornet just wouldnt have been born lol

[muted lantern]

thought experiment

[silk dirge]

thats the most likely outcome

[sterile jacinth]

I don’t think Hornet would have existed :P
herrah would likely be one of those entombed weavers who’d give you an ability

[silk dirge]

what ability would she give

[muted lantern]

the power to retcon

[sterile jacinth]

[silk dirge]

honestly you know what would be a cool silk skill to get

a mini haunting

[humble peak]

isn't that just the needolin

[sterile jacinth]

Uhh the mini spider things you get from deepnest

[silk dirge]

you can ensnare enemies to fight for you

needolin doesnt do that

ofc itd need to be balanced somehow

[humble peak]

it makes them sing that's like close enough

[dawn sluice]

we need to get a whole crest for this

[silk dirge]

but itd be kinda cool

[dawn sluice]

great idea

[muted lantern]

maybe it would cost a whole bind?

[dawn sluice]

oh wait a second

[humble peak]

that's the crest you get in weaver queen

[muted lantern]

facts

[silk dirge]

yeah probably

[dawn sluice]

oh wait a second

[silk dirge]

but still different enemy types

probably it doesnt work on like bosses or minibosses

[sterile jacinth]

Turn their summons against them

[silk dirge]

like for example i was thinking ensnaring a choir clapper in hhg would be really op

so of course you wouldnt be able to do that

but like you could totally ensnare a cogfly dude

[sterile jacinth]

Just use Cogflies at that point lol

[silk dirge]

honestly would be really funny if you like ensnared a maestros cogflies and made them fight him

[slim tree]

Keep seeing ppl say prime hallownest would beat prime pharloom in war and idk who told them that lmfao

[silk dirge]

no more olaris for you

[sterile jacinth]

I hate those guys

[opaque parcel]

is it possible that the bells were put on the workers in deep docks head's after the haunting started to try and keep them safe from the haunting

[dawn sluice]

imagine being able to ensare a boss

[silk dirge]

VECTA

[sterile jacinth]

OLERO

[silk dirge]

UNA ELAINE

[muted lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/trobbio-silksong-hollow-knight-tormented-trobbio-scared-gif-13022162881477030202

[silk dirge]

maestros are annoying but they are definitely one of the more memorable enemy voice lines

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah fr lol

[lapis creek]

gms is the most powerful being in pharloom and hornet kills her with a sharp stick

[silk dirge]

five great knights would fucking collapse the citadel lol

[sterile jacinth]

Gms is considerably weakened by the time Hornet fights her lol

[silk dirge]

ogrim solos all grand reeds at once no problem

my goat

[lapis creek]

she couldnt even beat her own children

[dawn sluice]

what would happen if the knight came by ( assuming they could traverse pharloom somehow)

[opaque parcel]

washed ogrim solos every enemy besides bosses in the citadel without a scratch

[lapis creek]

perhaps i should rephrase

[slim tree]

not at all pk doesnt seem to have any super offensive power meanwhile gms is basically radiance 2.0

[lapis creek]

the weavers put her to sleep

[dawn sluice]

id describe dung defender as unwashed ogrim but yeah

[silk dirge]

ok wait the true pharloom showdown isma vs nyleth

[opaque parcel]

lmaooooo

[silk dirge]

pk doesnt have offensive power bc we never fight him lol

if we fought him he would beat your ass lmao

[slim tree]

Ok but even if we never fought gms we still know she has offense potential since she caused the haunting

[opaque parcel]

pale king wyrm form solos doubled pharloom

[opaque parcel]

we did tho

[sterile jacinth]

I don’t think pk would go to war with Pharloom

[slim tree]

Did u read anything what i just said

[silk dirge]

the question is can unn fight

[muted lantern]

to explain the question better, it seems herrah wanted someone powerful enough to circumvent the curse that made weavers struggle to have kids, what im wondering is if she have stayed in pharloom would there be any being that would be able to give her the child she wanted. I asked because I was pondering the implications of what the story would have been like if hornet was born and raised in pharloom rather than hallownest

[opaque parcel]

OH SORYR I MISREAD

[dawn sluice]

not anymore

[silk dirge]

giant slugs are cool but id imagine her only ability would be body slamming other people

[lapis creek]

if gms could stand up to hallownest she could certainly stand up to the weavers

[opaque parcel]

im so sorry about that

[slim tree]

Dont worry lol

[muted lantern]

She has the biden blast attack trust

[slim tree]

its not just gms bru

[muted lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/biden-blast-joe-biden-biden-blast-gif-6547929686164862695

[silk dirge]

unn blast the sequel to biden blast

environmentalism blast

[slim tree]

the choir the conductors the huntress the groal people the skarr the coral tribe all of shellwood all the pilgrims

[dawn sluice]

its interesting how silksong recontextualized herrahs wish from a demand for a child ripe with potential from the king of hallownest to a want for a child to circumvent something built into her

[lapis creek]

karmelita is mogged by pure vessel

im sorry to say

[opaque parcel]

hallownest has tons of gods, if we include unn for hallownest prime we also have to include radiance because moths

[dawn sluice]

mr mushroom

[muted lantern]

unn could probably cast vitriolic sphere at 9th level

[sterile jacinth]

If we did than rad would fight everyone lmao

[lapis creek]

so would gms

[muted lantern]

this is the true answer

[sterile jacinth]

True

[dawn sluice]

how would the shade lord do against silksong- oh wait theres my answer

[slim tree]

radiance takes time to like actually infect i dont think shed be relevant

[opaque parcel]

vessels sweep ngl

[silk dirge]

shade lord is straight up like orders of magnitude above every other hb lol

[sterile jacinth]

Vessels are pretty unique lol

[silk dirge]

its not even close

[dawn sluice]

how would all of the gods of hallownest do against the gods of pharloom
and JUST the gods

[silk dirge]

thats a 4 v 1 lmao

[opaque parcel]

how many gods of pharloom are there?

[dawn sluice]

2

[muted lantern]

is void microwave safe?

[silk dirge]

whos the 2nd

[dawn sluice]

grand mother silk and MR MUSHROOM

[muted lantern]

he only exists above all others after he rockets off tho

[sterile jacinth]

Mr mushroom isn’t affiliated with any kingdom lol

[muted lantern]

and that only lasts until he lands

[silk dirge]

honestly i do kinda want a mr mushroom boss fight lol

like a sort of meme boss like eternal ordeal

[muted lantern]

what if he just dies in one hit

[opaque parcel]

we could count shade lord for hallownest but eh that prob shouldn't count

[slim tree]

shade lord wouldnt really fight on any side since theres an abyss in pharloom and hn

[silk dirge]

yeah it doesnt count imo

also idk if we would count radiance in that

how would radiance and gms get along

[sterile jacinth]

Idk if wl or pk can/are willing to fight

[slim tree]

idk man all the judges the cogwork robots

[silk dirge]

bc radiance is not helping hallownest

[opaque parcel]

radiance is only hostile to hallownest because it was being forgotten, it was the god of the moths before and seemingly neutral

[dawn sluice]

do we count nkg for hallownest?

[opaque parcel]

i think

[opaque parcel]

nah the grim troupe is a travelling circus

[silk dirge]

nmh nah

[sterile jacinth]

Nkg is from a traveling troupe. No

[muted lantern]

are we powerscaling kingdoms rn

[dawn sluice]

let me get my higher being list

[muted lantern]

fleatopia neg diffs hallownest

mooska would curbstomp pale king

[dawn sluice]

higher beings we have so far
the knight (only after getting the void heart)
hornet (weaver queen)
pale king
white lady
nightmare heart
the radiance
trobbio
grand mother silk
unn
maybe nyleth
maybe the lifeblood creature
maybe mr mushroom

[sterile jacinth]

Trobbio 🔥

[dawn sluice]

no you're not saying it right

its TroBBIOO

[sterile jacinth]

TROBBBIOOOOO

[muted lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/silksong-hollow-knight-boss-trobbio-tormented-trobbio-gif-2326725108371992682

[sterile jacinth]

I doubt Nyleth is a hb. Just a powerful bug

[muted lantern]

is zote a higher being

[sterile jacinth]

Yes

[silk dirge]

trobbio is a highest being

[muted lantern]

Unn is the highest in some ways

[sterile jacinth]

Eeuuhh mamni ba

-zote

[dawn sluice]

anyway who wins between these guys

and who would be the best ruler

[silk dirge]

who wins shouldnt include tk

bc shade lord is orders of magnitude more powerful than anyone else there

[dawn sluice]

fair

now whos the best ruler

or who WOULD be the best ruler

since most of them have never ruled

[silk dirge]

trobbio

[muted lantern]

Do you guys think sherma has what it takes to be a leader?

[silk dirge]

whos pulling out the

[silk dirge]

yes but not until we get the citadel demolition cutscene

i want that in dlc so bad now

itd be so fucking cool 😭

[muted lantern]

I don't think he could do it alone, leading i mean. i think monarchy has done the pilgrims no favors. maybe he would head a council of sorts?

[dawn sluice]

no

[silk dirge]

pharloom would probably become a democracy

[quartz salmon]

i dont think the pilgrims can destroy that kind of superstructure

maybe repurpose it

[silk dirge]

itd be something hornet can do

[muted lantern]

sherma constructs a nuclear bomb

[silk dirge]

hornet would set up a bunch of bombs around the citadel

[quartz salmon]

maybe but why

[silk dirge]

bc its a symbol of evil lol

[muted lantern]

I mean the citadel is also a huge hazard if its left to degrade, without maintenence it could collapse, a controlled demolition could help mitigate the damage caused

[quartz salmon]

eh

[silk dirge]

like wtf do you with like whiteward

id definitely blow that shit up

[muted lantern]

Is the citadel built into the rock or is it like hanging, out on top of a pillar of the underworks i don't remember its actual shape

[quartz salmon]

install some lights and turn it into an ethical medbay

[quartz salmon]

it seems to be built from the ground up

[silk dirge]

"The souls of so many bugs, obsessed with Silk, consumed by it. Their pain shall forever remain in that pit. Even I do not possess strength enough to cleanse it. "

[dawn sluice]

keep it to show people how horrible it is

[silk dirge]

only option i see is blow it up

[muted lantern]

my question is does it risk collapse without the underworks being maintained? like will the citadel cave in on its own?

[silk dirge]

this is the type of shit im imagining https://youtu.be/IA5YlOXJ_PQ?si=lQlf-HJnl1yOuptr

[muted lantern]

Tbf setting off bombs in a cave system is probably a bad idea

[quartz salmon]

while it would be nice i think its just too big

[muted lantern]

I think you seal off the whiteward and the underworks and leave the rest as a monument

[quartz salmon]

the only thing that can bring it down is something like the void the same way it did in act 3

[muted lantern]

would the automatons keep functioning without gms alive?

I would assume so

since her silk lingers at least for lace

and it would suck to have second sentinel go "Ms hornet i don't feel so good"

[quartz salmon]

i think actually the citadel might just blow up on its own
we free phantom, so theres noone regulating the giant steam pipes

[muted lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/peachvitty-gif-24343442

[quartz salmon]

it just builds up and goes boom

[muted lantern]

thats probably true

but also would the machinery even keep running?

without the underworks?

[silk dirge]

nah i have the best idea

have a quest where hornet goes to the soviet union to learn the plans for an rbmk reactor

you know where this is going

[muted lantern]

Hornet joins the communist party

[silk dirge]

that was not where i was going

[quartz salmon]

hornet learns how to boil water

[muted lantern]

I know i was joking

you were making a chernobyl reference i presume

[silk dirge]

yeah

[muted lantern]

so yeah would hornet evacuate the citadel or would she try to resettle it

[silk dirge]

i would say evacuate everyone and blow it up

[muted lantern]

I feel like if the cogwork core keeps running and the steam isnt being vented its too risky

even without the underworks the core would still funciton no?

[silk dirge]

make sure bellhart and survivors camp are reinforced

and take everyone from songclave to bellhart

eira will help

and then its boom time

[sterile jacinth]

I don’t imagine blowing up the citadel is high priority for the very destroyed Pharloom

[muted lantern]

bellhart suffered a lot from the lesser quakes of the void event, I feel like a explosion big enough to level a city would probably cause cave ins everywhere.

[silk dirge]

i mean id imagine act 3 made the citadel unstable

[sterile jacinth]

I think they’d focus on rebuilding what they have instead of destroying the citadel

[silk dirge]

i just want a citadel blowing up scene