sk-lore

[jade skiff]

Why does Hornet re-learn all of her abilities in SK if in HK she already had them?

Like silkstorm (correct me if im wrong)

[sinful nimbus]

The rune cage she was captured in messed with her abilities

[humble leaf]

uhh the cage weakened her

[jade skiff]

Ohhh

[silk dirge]

my theory is to be specific the cage made her forget since i dont know how a cage could just like strip away abilities like that

like those are abilities you can do if you have what hornet has you just need to know how to do them

[lethal burrow]

Honestly, that's probably the most likely option now that I think about it

[silk dirge]

tbh i think tc nailed the dlc bait on this one

[sinful nimbus]

Well I'd wait until DLC to make conclusions

They didn't really elaborate on the sequel bait on Silksong

[vestal swan]

Seals, seals drained her, seals sealed abilities, curses exist now, this game is super inconsistent, who fucking knows

[silk dirge]

yeah but so far the dlc bait ive caught on to:
-suspicious door in bilewater where acmi maps confirm pharloom bay was
-city of steel mention
-sotv as a whole
-random ledges near coral tower

[sinful nimbus]

The rune cage in particular seems fine

Well except for when Hornet breaks out of one through punching it but we don't talk about that

[silk dirge]

i think thats just a weaker one

[sinful nimbus]

A really really weak one

[silk dirge]

gms is probably as racist to the slab flies as hornet and wouldnt let them use the deluxe cage so they only get to use the normal one

[vestal swan]

Don't get too excited about blocked off doors hollowknight has quite a few of those

[silk dirge]

i mean this specific one is confirmed by acmi maps to be where pharloom bay was

[vestal swan]

Coral towers random ledge pissed me off, I got up there without silk soar and there was nothing!!!

[sinful nimbus]

[vestal swan]

That doesn't mean anything because at this point it's cut or unused content, well technically all of these things could return or be used in the future there's no guarantee they exist anymore

[silk dirge]

the one thing that keeps me hoping is someone was messing around in silksong code and did notice they modified something called bay

who knows what that actually means

but there is that

i mean it would make sense since pharloom bay is literally mentioned in game by zylotol

[humble peak]

Pharloom Bay is incredibly likely I think

[vestal swan]

I'm going to hit you with the thing I was hitting people with for 5 years, backend updates don't mean shit until it's in front of you

So many things were added or updated or named years ago and we still haven't seen them

Or they got changed or cut etc

[humble peak]

Do we know it? No. But there's evidence enough to deem it probable.

[silk dirge]

i think especially what makes it probable is zylotol

[vestal swan]

Yeah people said shit was probable for 5 years wheres Sharpe now

[humble peak]

What?

[silk dirge]

thats different lol

i doubt theyd just have zylotol mention pharloom bay and a supposed master we never meet and then never elaborate further

oh yeah also theres a dead pharloom bay hermit crap in memorium

[vestal swan]

That makes me wonder, how does the steel city feel about lifeblood

And wisps

[humble peak]

Yeah I did just wanna say, I was calling a bay area being cut/planned as DLC even before hearing there was literally a bay area cut. Between Zylonol's comments and the Bilewater Weavenest, the game definitely felt to be saying "there are salted waters beyond here"

[silk dirge]

the wisps are so interesting to me bc its definitely not normal fire

otherwise all the guys who get burned in the whiteward crematorium wouldnt have silk for morticians to recover

[vestal swan]

It's the 3rd non-standard life form

[silk dirge]

what are the first two

[vestal swan]

Void/lifeblood/wisps and maybe grow metal steel people

[silk dirge]

ok those are what i guessed

[vestal swan]

Doesn't use soul to live doesn't give soul when hit, although we have yet to fight a steel person

[silk dirge]

sharpe definitely seems like hes more than steel tho

but like a full ass steel person yeah probably

[vestal swan]

Sharpe seems like a vassal

[edgy nebula]

sharpe is void, just like hornet

[silk dirge]

i doubt it he seems higher ranked than them

[vestal swan]

I feel like everybody that leaves the steel city is a pair of bug and robot

He might be leading the group of robots that we were supposed to see already

[silk dirge]

i feel like he might be a steel city military commander of sorts

[vestal swan]

But hed still be a vassal to masters

[silk dirge]

like some sort of general

[edgy nebula]

sharpe has the role of an assassin under his masters, id imagine the ranking goes

1. masters
2. steelhearts
3. assassins
4. vassals

[vestal swan]

Makes sense

[edgy nebula]

im really curious about zi's lore

she says she grew from the growstone but also that she was compressed

do rock bugs grow from the growstone and then work around the city of steel or something

[vestal swan]

Compression is a punishment

[silk dirge]

maybe compressed is a way of saying they like forced life into her or smth

unless thats not what the dialog is saying

[vestal swan]

I think the metal they grow from can keep its shape after like it's enchanted or whatever, so she can get put through the trash compactor and then reform like a liquid Terminator

Compression is not her origin it is a punishment

[silk dirge]

im so excited to see the steel city hydraulic press

we really getting a hydraulic press boss fight soon

[edgy nebula]

i assumed that their original bodies got compressed into the gem that powered the steelhearts, i dont know what compression would be otherwise

[vestal swan]

Punishment, painful punishment

Also they're made out of living metal that can grow

So being smashed flat wouldn't be death

[edgy nebula]

especially since jinn says she was built

[edgy nebula]

why would hornet be threatened with it then?

[vestal swan]

Zi does not understand the hierarchy outside of the steel city, she thinks everybody has a master too

[silk dirge]

the thing im curious is steel city seems logically like something that would happen after sotv since hornet would probably not leave pharloom otherwise

[edgy nebula]

fair yeah

[silk dirge]

so where does lace fit into this

[vestal swan]

Lace, oh no

Metal gear solid 2

[silk dirge]

lace after giggling like crazy in front of the steel masters

[vestal swan]

Hornet gets captured again and we have to play as lace

[edgy nebula]

waiting for hornet to find the new tool: box

[vestal swan]

Wait was it mgs2 that fakes you out and makes you play as Raiden?

[elder rune]

Idk how I’d feel about waiting a dozen years just to go to the City of Steel.

[silk dirge]

i heard someone call this "southern california instagram picture" and i cant stop laughing about it now

what 😭

[vestal swan]

Studio shaft head tilt from the psycho character moment

[humble peak]

What are Steelhearts? When are they mentioned?

[silk dirge]

steelhearts are like jinn and zi

[edgy nebula]

sula mentions steelhearts, presumably theyre beings like jinn and zi

[vestal swan]

The robotic ones

[humble peak]

I see

[edgy nebula]

i dont think it's ever actually said if theyre the robots or not which is funny

[elder rune]

Does this mean Greymoor is England?

[edgy nebula]

is karak america

[silk dirge]

the citadel is silicon valley

[vestal swan]

If they aren't robots they're metal homunculi and those are essentially the same thing here

[silk dirge]

cogwork core is literally techbro haven

[humble peak]

The Citadel is England
They're literally colonists

They also destroyed Verdania (Ireland)

[edgy nebula]

khann on a cliff of coral shooting two conchcutters while driznargas fly behind him and screech like eagles while the karak anthem plays

[silk dirge]

you could say underworks is the africa of silksong

[silk dirge]

would especially work out with this

tho idk what underworks was before it got colonized

maybe more wisp thicket?

[edgy nebula]

was probably a crossroads of every area

karak, shellwood, wisp thicket, moor farmlands, etc

[brisk plaza]

as someone from socal— add more of color filter to this and it'd be perfect yeah

[humble peak]

I mean, Underworks is... oh yeah it's not technically a part of the Citadel, not on the map, is it?
But like it's definitely part of the Citadel

[silk dirge]

pharloom bay is the good part of the bay area

so san francisco

give me a sealbug npc

[brisk plaza]

do you think the people from bilewater would be the natives that were pushed out then

[elder rune]

Nah, it’s Belarus, it being technically independent of the Citadel but being completely reliant/connected to it.

[humble peak]

Bilewater is uhh
idk Scotland?

[edgy nebula]

barnacle npc would be cool

long arm prawn boss

[silk dirge]

whats the poland of silksong

[elder rune]

Fleatopia, as the caravan is very Slavic-coded.

[silk dirge]

i saw a meme where the mist was called krakow

idk much about poland but that was silly

[humble peak]

What's the deal with Verdania anyway?
Like there's no pollution visible in it, it's just... dead
What killed it? The prince mentions the haunting but I don't see how that'd cause all the plantlife to wither and die.
Even in Memorium... why were they unable to sustain it? Though Memorium is a bit of a whole other topic.

[elder rune]

Tbh, I feel like the place just… idk withered away with the Green Prince’s crippling depression and his husband becoming the Cogwork Dancers. But yeah, the fact almost Nothing remains there when the Sands of Karak is still a semi-functioning ecosystem is strange.

[humble peak]

Lowkey does anyone else feel like it would've made more sense if Pharloom Bay was in its original location (where Verdania is now) and Verdania was put where we expect Pharloom Bay to be?
And then they could've tied Verdania's fall to the pollution or something a bit more and stuff.

[silk dirge]

i would not call driznits a semi functioning ecosystem

[humble peak]

it literally feels more dead than the abyss it's crazy

[elder rune]

I disagree, the Driznits do count as actual life, don’t wallow in artificial pollution, and are definitely organic creatures… unfortunately

Other creatures in the Sands exist too.

[silk dirge]

coral furms dont seem native

[humble peak]

While it's sad we didn't get the full coral area I feel like the sands do a pretty good job of showing what remains

[silk dirge]

idk about the sand crawlers either

[humble peak]

sand crawlers?

[silk dirge]

sandcarvers

the environmental hazard worms

[humble peak]

ah those guys

Containment fails. Memory lost. Excise outer. Maintain inner.
Shellwood stasis sustained - Remember.
Marrowlands stasis critical - Remember.
Verdania environment exceeded - Destined to forget.
ok so like wtf do we make of this?

Exceeded? What does that mean??

That's kinda what it sounds like, but it doesn't really make a lot of sense

[vestal swan]

Sounds like winner writes the history books shit

Verdania was not the aggressor and even sacrificed a prince and still got wiped out

Oh, inside the zoo...

I'm tired ignore me

[silk dirge]

do we think verdania was destroyed under weavers or conductors

bc the memorium was established under conductors

[vestal swan]

GMS started it someone else finished it

[silk dirge]

so verdania cant be in there unless it still somewhat existed then

my take is probably it was in decline by then

[elder rune]

Kinda wish there were a Verdania boss in the Memorium, like perhaps an aged, sickly & bloated Pendragor?

[silk dirge]

conductors just took the last remains for a fucking zoo

shoutouts to https://youtu.be/PB-EMZbTOj0?si=9AOnKUYeEgu6JX-s

this video has some goated pious isamor analysis

i wonder why memoria used electric stuff

my guess is as a sort of herding device

like shocking creatures that didnt get into their cage

[elder rune]

Those Memoria so weak they get killed by the weakest attacking Verdania enemy 😭

[silk dirge]

its genuinely crazy to me dont they got voltvessels or some shit

are there memoria in seths room

[elder rune]

Okay but Seth is actually pretty powerful, meanwhile the Leaf Rollers don’t even pursue Hornet if she runs away and may just bounce off a cliff when trying to attack her!

[silk dirge]

yeah those are just envoys

[elder rune]

But yeah, Seth is on an entirely different league than the weakest attacking enemies from Lost Verdania, given that he’s literally a boss!

[silk dirge]

are they ass at using voltvessels or some shit

[elder rune]

They don’t really use the spear variants of the voltvessels, so maybe?

But like… they can literally fly lol and the bugs that apparently killed them can’t!

[silk dirge]

the bola variant is op as fuck

apparently you can just like spam them all at once to basically instakill most bosses

[stark helm]

Question again.

How come Hornet killed Phantom but not Lace?

Is this Lace bias?

[vestal swan]

She thought she did

[stark helm]

We should cancel Hornet.

[vestal swan]

Lace is way stronger than she looks

[stark helm]

Well yeah, but what did Phantom do besides engage in a fight?

[sacred heath]

play some damn good organ music

[stark helm]

Also, actual question. What's the lore of Wisp Thicket?

[sacred heath]

good question

[stark helm]

... Do we just not know?

[vestal swan]

Bugs find a way to summon/control creatures known as wisps seemingly through sacrifices and are possibly using the fire to burn away threads and not get haunted

[silk dirge]

greymoor before deforestation plus wisp stuff

[stark helm]

Are the butterflies Lumaflies, similar, or something different?

[vestal swan]

Different, well we can't say for certain that the little flies give soul but, wisps don't

Hornet finds them extremely odd

[stark helm]

I mean. If they're similar, Sly calling the Lumafly Lantern a friend could take a different meaning.

Probably not.

[vestal swan]

Sly could sell you a turd he has a silver tongue

(he sells steady body so it's accurate)

[humble peak]

This video is rather good I do recommend it

[silk dirge]

random quick thing in the trobbio fight you can see this model of the citadel in the bg and i thought id make a guess what the spires we see in it are

i cant wait for the pharloom version of this so we can see the citadel in full and take the size of it all in

[dark rune]

ik it's a retcon but how do you explain herrah's head shape being different when hornet inherits the head shape too

[vestal swan]

There's one fan idea that Herra had a different source bug

[dark rune]

hm alright

i like that idea but idk how likely it is

[vestal swan]

Like pharlids became sinner but maybe herra was a, idk I can't remember the names of these creatures

It's not really supported by anything but it's the only idea that really explains the head shape

[silk dirge]

drapemites

[vestal swan]

Drape mites don't look right

That only explains the fat body not the head shape, and the fat body was retconned

[dark rune]

i can kinda see the head shape

protruding outwards

[vestal swan]

Styx tho

[silk dirge]

anyways what i was kinda saying before is i really hope at some point someone tries to make a 3d model of the citadel

just the exterior ofc

but i just really want to feel the scale of it

[dark rune]

his horns are round

[tame abyss]

There are several videos including this one and the one before it that makes me wonder if I've missed something in the lore. I was under the impression that it is unclear when the Citadel became so corrupt, and while Whiteward is a Conductor-era thing (with regular bugs seeking immortality), the Underworks doesn't seem to have any timeline attached to it. There's nothing saying GMS or Weavers didn't make it that way, especially as there's a dead Weaver in there. In fact, Mask Maker said Weavers were "free to lavish in their false rule". Am I missing something attributing fault to the Conductors specifically?

[vestal swan]

But have a deep V shape

[dark rune]

also has 6

[silk dirge]

pious isamor implies under a different time most bugs were equal but the weavers were on top

basically still slavery but not as bad

[vestal swan]

The Weaver's passed on their burden to the conductors when they left finally, I haven't watched the video but there are still some parts of the timeline we can't pin down

[tame abyss]

Pious Isamor also says "[c]ast aside those many sinful hopes for rest" which really sounds quite Underworks-y

[silk dirge]

it also says "all are equal" at some point

[tame abyss]

Yeah I get that. I just don't understand why so many people are saying Conductors made the Underworks when it could have been that way earlier

[vestal swan]

Ah

Underworks definitely could have been just as old

Maybe when my phone's not on 7% or if I remember tomorrow

[teal drift]

Yeah its unclear when peak enshittification happened, imo probably just a mix of both

[silk dirge]

yeah isamor needolin dialog

"Pilgrims... all...
Siblings... serving...
Devout... unwavering...
All... are equal..."

[dark rune]

is herrah called "the beast" because of her unusualness in hallownest or because her weaver origins may be different?

[teal drift]

The only innocent is gms #TrueQueen

[silk dirge]

isamor was also likely stationed somewhere in choral chambers

theres a broken stand near the whiteward elevator where it could fit

[dark rune]

also gms during act 3:

[tame abyss]

"all slaves are equal" isn't that much better though

[teal drift]

My read is that:

Gms era is kinda old old school colonialism.
Weavers were modernization with massive inequality and abuse of the lower class.
Conductor era was like uberhell capitalism.

[silk dirge]

its better than conductors

but yeah still terrible

i mean this guy isnt saying weavers were good either

only good weavers imo are first sinner and herrah

[dark rune]

@vestal swan i just thought of this

[tame abyss]

Yeah I'm just wondering where it is stated who did what

[teal drift]

Not really

[silk dirge]

i just think its possible to infer from pious isamor

which is what that video does

[teal drift]

Imo its a bit unclear which era correlates with which specific shitty thing besides the broad strokes

[tame abyss]

Yeah that's what I thought

[silk dirge]

pious isamor definitely corresponds to an early era of the citadel tho

[teal drift]

Gms colonized the old powers, conductors did the immortality uberhell stuff, what the weavers did is less clear besides make the citadel

[tame abyss]

Like I'm pretty sure people are still arguing over who made the Cogwork Dancers. Was it GMS (because Hornet attributed fault to "a being pale")? Or was it Weavers / Conductors (because they guard the room asking for the threefold melody)?

[silk dirge]

weavers probably

gms didnt make like anything in the citadel

[teal drift]

The specifics of the weaver era are the hardest to pin down but they def set up the pilgrimage system and therefore a lot of the enshittification

[silk dirge]

anyways i think the difference is weaver slavery was basically just singing forever to keep gms asleep which is bad definitely but conductor slavery was some bugs get to do that which is the best path or end up in underworks

[velvet bolt]

picking yalls brains:

[teal drift]

I mean presumably the underworks was around in weaver era

So weavers probably started some of that shi too

[lethal burrow]

I don't know why Weaver would make one of their corpse shrines in the caldron

[velvet bolt]

what would you consider to be some weaknesses of hornet's?

[tame abyss]

Yeah that's the weird thing because Hornet talks to both Karmelita and Green Prince pinning blame on GMS and they don't deny it

[teal drift]

Imdustrialization overtook what was once a weaver shrine

[tame abyss]

but Cogwork Dancers seems like a post-GMS thing

[velvet bolt]

either in terms of character or physical shortcomings

also, per the citadel, but isnt there that tidbit that suggests it was a lot more of an ascetic place at first?

[toxic mulch]

For character flaws I'd say she acts on impulse a bit too much,maybe not to an insane degree but she immediately agrees to the first option on many things

[teal drift]

I think almost everything besides the initial downfall of the red ants and coral kingdom can be described as post GMS

Like even verdania and shellwood either fell during citadel times or didnt even fall

[velvet bolt]

🤔 that is true!

[teal drift]

Gms freed pharloom from war hungry corals and red ants bless her heart

[silk dirge]

yeah isamor dialog implies the citadel wasnt gilded at first

"See our Citadel's simple stone, bare and unadorned. See how plain our garb, how sparse our meal. Know that... excess is sin!"

[toxic mulch]

Shellwood and hunters march are in decline in the modern day,karak and verdania are dead

[velvet bolt]

Aye, that's the one

[teal drift]

Eyah i agree with that.

Tbf its possible ckk was an asshole and deserved to get rocked

[toxic mulch]

I'd love to have a mockup of a map of the original kingdoms territories

[velvet bolt]

ya, both shellwood and hunters march are limping along more or less on whatever remaining life force nyleth and karmelita still have respectively

[tame abyss]

Hornet: A stunning sight. Unique. All gone... Lost to the pale monarch... and the system to keep her caged.
Ohhhh. My interpretation of the line had been "Verdania fell due to a combination of GMS and Citadel", it works, but the order is reversed. Citadel did the Cogwork Dancers and probably the caves collapsing, GMS did the haunting.

[teal drift]

Karak is almost as advanced as the citadel kwas according to shakra

A lot of in story people attribute things to gms that can better be attributed to the concept of “power corrupts”—it just happens that gms is the source of silk and therefore power

[velvet bolt]

Verdania is basically immediately under bilewater

[teal drift]

Maybe verdania crisis was all they water got shrocked

[toxic mulch]

Khann commanding half of pharloom in the past just doesn't make sense geographically,he clearly didn't control shellwood so maybe he went downward to moss grotto and wormways?

[velvet bolt]

so i sort of assumed that the industrial levels of waste they pumped into it also poisoned verdania

[teal drift]

I mean maybe where the citedel is

[toxic mulch]

Maybe

[tame abyss]

Yeah I agree that's what probably happened with the caves collapsing

[teal drift]

They are the choral chambers haha awesome pun

[toxic mulch]

Wait yeah probably

[silk dirge]

half of pharloom could also be a hyperbole

[toxic mulch]

I wasn't thinking about how blasted steps leads directly into choral chambers

[teal drift]

Its possible coral kingdom like was a giant u shape around the top of the map including the cut pharloom bay

[silk dirge]

maybe he controlled a large part of pharloom but not exactly half of it

[toxic mulch]

Verdania likely controlled greymoor and wisp thicket in the past

[teal drift]

Yeah i think he controlled blasted steps, sands, maybe parts of mt fay, and some of the area occupied by the citadel

[toxic mulch]

In my mind verdania and the skarr were on good terms but that's just headcanon

[velvet bolt]

seeing as how the needolin dialogue with khann corpse pre-memory seems to hint at a downfall having to do with the whole citadel/gms religion sphere

[teal drift]

You can kinda make a political compass out of the four hearts tbh.

[devout plank]

Possible the hornet has some void in her because in this cutscene of the first ending these black threads come down in the last split second before the next scene plays and the particles are void particles, can't be dust since there's no other dust particles in the whole clip and these ones only come when the black threads come which is possibly void

Maybe the pale king got some shit with the void when he was making the vessels?

[toxic mulch]

Nyleth might've been at odds with khann

[devout plank]

Or maybe that because hornet hunted down vessels in hallownest she got some shit with the void?

[velvet bolt]

i do think that it's entirely possible or probable that the coral kingdom's resources were looted to make way for the construction of the citadel

[toxic mulch]

I'm not sure if khann would've tried to take over shellwood

[toxic mulch]

The citadel definitely stole blasted steps from karak

[velvet bolt]

yeah

[toxic mulch]

The judges aren't coral at all so my guess is they were planted there by the citadel to forcefully take the area

[velvet bolt]

also just noting the sheer amount of excess in the citadel, like the amount of water they use and squander

vs how dried out the sands of karak are

[teal drift]

This could be the approximate reach of each area pre gms-ing

[toxic mulch]

I'm guessing karak was already starting to hit a drought and then the citadel also began stealing their dwindling water supply

[teal drift]

Although there seem to be natural connections from hunters march to greymoor so maybe even more clean than my image

[toxic mulch]

Verdania didn't own the stilkin

[teal drift]

Its possible there was a relationship there idk much abt the stilkin besides them fighting citadel at its peak

Also this is more of a political influence map than ecact location

[toxic mulch]

Likely a truce between them but definitely separate entities

They 100% shared their water supply as trade

[teal drift]

Need a stilkin heart dlc

[velvet bolt]

i can't imagine them being terribly antagonistic yeah

[teal drift]

Tbh getting stilken heart from seamstress >>>

[toxic mulch]

Groal the greater memory boss and it's groal but bigger and no platforms

[teal drift]

Groal appears as a chill dude in the memory flashbsck

[toxic mulch]

The green pinstress is prime dlc content

[velvet bolt]

the stilkin became guerillas because of the citadel, but if they had a healthy and flourishing ecosystem before i cant imagine them being any more aggressive than any other regular group of territorial bugs

[toxic mulch]

Before the citadel they were likely a very friendly civilization

[tame abyss]

Verdanians aren't that much less painful to fight though haha

[velvet bolt]

groal could genuinely have a character arc that goes hard

[toxic mulch]

I'd like to assume that the skarr,verdanians,and stilkin all had a trade route and truce

[velvet bolt]

yeah

basically: the four nations lived in harmony. but then the citadel nation attacked

[toxic mulch]

The skarr trading meats,verdania plants,and stilkin water

[onyx olive]

if hornet binded widow why cant she pull off her spider attacks? she can bind corpses and learn movesets just fine

[dry bridge]

What about the craws?

[velvet bolt]

lawyers

[toxic mulch]

The craw probably came later

[velvet bolt]

true that, i forgot they describe it as a craw "infestation"

[tame abyss]

Yeah who used to rule Greymoor? I thought the theory is Wisp Thicket used to be much bigger and they cut down the bamboo

[toxic mulch]

Probably a truced area between the skarr and verdania

[tame abyss]

Which isn't a thing in either Bilewater or Verdania

[velvet bolt]

Greymoor used to be a farming community, that seems more Verdania-core than Skarr

It probably used to not be grey either

[toxic mulch]

I'd lean further into verdania owning greymoor yeah

[velvet bolt]

like Greenmoor or Brightmoor or something

[toxic mulch]

I think once the weavers left that's when greymoor started to break down completely

[dry bridge]

Crawmoor, perhaps? 🤔

[velvet bolt]

well, the weavers would have had no reason to make them collect silk, yeah? they got their own

[toxic mulch]

Greymoor seems more a product of the conductors than the weavers

[velvet bolt]

so probably the conductors

[toxic mulch]

I wonder if verdania was destroyed before or after the weavers left

Likely something similar to verdanias plant life with very fertile soil

[dry bridge]

Unless craw lake is a very recent thing (in which case, where did they come from is a question), I think the craws had to have been in the area for a while, the time of the simpler weaver-citadel at the very least. Possibly self-governing (but without a single great ruler, since they dont have a heart to grab) and pushed into their own corner when silk dreg collection became important for the citadel

[toxic mulch]

Probably (blank) forest or something

[teal drift]

After imo but i have little justification for this.

[toxic mulch]

The craw seem relatively recent

[teal drift]

I think i just associate anything clockwork with conductor era.

[toxic mulch]

Fair

All we really know about verdanias downfall is hornet at least blames GMS for it

[tame abyss]

GP did say "fell to threads and ruin" so it could be that it declined during Weaver/Conductor and then GMS's haunting made it completely dead

[teal drift]

Gms wanted to create regular religion with her as god
Weavers take over and create scam religion with them as god akin to like 1500s churches
Conductors take over and create megachurch industrial hell.

Imo verdania was a kingdom that was partially beaten back by gms’ arrival but only fell completely during citadel era

[toxic mulch]

We really need dlc of pharloom before the citadel

I wanna know how the old kingdoms interacted with eachother

[teal drift]

I want proof gms is a pretty chill dude who did nothing wrong from dlc

I also wish we had more on lace than what the game directly says.

[toxic mulch]

What I imagine happened is GMS arrival kicked them into the area we have in the memory that's a tiny area because they stole greymoor and then the pollution and haunting full destroyed verdania

[quick geyser]

Why

[toxic mulch]

"GMS did nothing wrong!" "You dare disrespect our great silk queen?!?"

[quick geyser]

This character seems evil…well I wish they weren’t 😭

[sterile jacinth]

Pov widow

[toxic mulch]

I saw widow as kinda being tortured into submission,like having her mask removed(which may or may not be painful idk) and her silk completely stopped I just see those as punishment for something

[sterile jacinth]

I think there’s more evidence to the contrary lol. That she was a follower of gms and the other weavers punished her

[toxic mulch]

Perhaps

It could go either way tbh

[sterile jacinth]

I can’t… really think of the evidence tho I’m tired

[dry bridge]

Gms seems very radiance-esque as far as higher beings go.
-Made/uplifted a race of bugs for the express purpose of worshipping them
-got abandoned/imprisoned by those bugs after they found something better than their god
-Eventually found a way to lash out and retaliate, destroying the kingdom that has been made in their absence

[toxic mulch]

Fair enough lol,holidays are always long days

[toxic mulch]

Radiance seems a little less malicious tho imo idk why

[sterile jacinth]

Gms caused like everything lmao

[toxic mulch]

Like radiance seems more like she just didn't want to be forgotten whereas GMS wanted full worship

[sterile jacinth]

Rad is having a tantrum. Gms also wants control and to me it seems like she’s lashing out cause her children betrayed her

Rad takes it out on the entirety of Halownest lol

I feel like they parallel each other a lot

[toxic mulch]

Radiance is actually just a toddler annoyed she's not getting attention 🙏

[quick geyser]

I think this is pretty evident

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah playing through both games they both have a ton of similarities and contrasts (rad and gms)

[toxic mulch]

What's interesting is the 2 thematically have the same function but gameplay wise they're swapped

Radiance is the true final boss of hk but lace is the true final boss of silksong

[sterile jacinth]

Yea it’s cool

You descend into hallownest and ascend up Pharloom

[toxic mulch]

Yes

I hope if silksong does get a godhome esc thing it's flipped again,you ascend godhome,silksongs should have you go further down

[quick geyser]

This is the kind of explanation I have whenever someone complain about Lost lace being the final boss

[toxic mulch]

GMS is silksongs thk equivalent

[quick geyser]

Eh-

[toxic mulch]

Gameplay wise not story wise

[sterile jacinth]

Pk was willing to sacrifice his children for the sake of the kingdom and gms is willing to sacrifice the kingdom for the sake of her children

*child
I should say

[quick geyser]

Ts why pale king was better 😂

[toxic mulch]

But only after seemingly not caring about her children?

[sterile jacinth]

Pale king tried his best 😔

[toxic mulch]

It's a bit strange to me she almost completely ignores lace and phantom for most of the game but then goes feral tryna save lace in act 3

[toxic mulch]

He did what he thought was a necessary evil at the time

[quick geyser]

It an interesting point in GMS character. As we all know, motherhood seems to be an underlying theme in silksong. GMS wanted a loyal child after the betrayal of weaver, so she created Phantom and Lace. Obviously, she loved Lace by a lot, but she didn’t understand the responsibility of being a mother. Sometimes love isn’t enough

[toxic mulch]

I don't think he took any pleasure in the vessels creation

[sterile jacinth]

I do think gms cares for her children. Genuinely. I think the weavers betrayal hurt her a lot

[quick geyser]

Phantom just got abandoned for some reason 💔

[toxic mulch]

[sterile jacinth]

I don’t think she cares for them in a way that makes her a good mother. She cares yes but it’s more like she just thinks of them as just her children. They are nothing more

[toxic mulch]

She likely thought giving phantom an important job would make them happy

[sterile jacinth]

My theory is phantom didn’t live up to gms expectations so she was cast aside

[toxic mulch]

Or at least she thought phantom wouldn't care about their position

Also is it implied lace literally gave phantom her face/mask or is it just visual metaphor?

[sterile jacinth]

I don’t think she cares as much about phantom. I think phantom was created as a replacement for the weavers (this one can’t leave her this time) and phantom wasn’t good enough

[toxic mulch]

I know phantom is wearing a mask

[sterile jacinth]

My interpretation was that phantom wears it out of shame to hide the fact that she’s unraveling

[toxic mulch]

Fair but the parallel of lace and phantoms faces seems to be more than just visual to me,like it almost seems lace legitimately took a piece of herself and gave it to phantom

[sterile jacinth]

Never heard that before hmm

I think those theories can coexist

[toxic mulch]

I just like the idea of lace doing it to help give phantom their own identity

[quick geyser]

Ok but what makes phantom “not good enough”, like what is the thing that makes GMS liked Lace more than Phantom

[sterile jacinth]

Lace herself has identity issues. I can see her doing that tho

[toxic mulch]

Cuz as we know a face is everything in this setting

[sterile jacinth]

I don’t know. Gms seems highly controlling. I’m thinking they spoke back or something and gms took that as a betrayal. Plus it’s impossible to please narcissistic parents

[sterile jacinth]

Lace notably doesn’t have a face. She does not have an identity of her own

[toxic mulch]

Yes

[sterile jacinth]

So it is an inevitability that phantom would mess up and gms (maybe fearing betrayal) would punish them

[toxic mulch]

Maybe phantom simply expressed too much free will

[sterile jacinth]

Her controlling nature is probably what caused lace to rebel

Yeah

[toxic mulch]

Fair enough I just think it's a neat idea and parallel for the 2 of them

It'd also be a very selfless thing for lace to do

[sterile jacinth]

I think that’s more like headcannon territory. Which I support that is an amazing headcanon

[toxic mulch]

Yeah I'm by no means claiming this as canon I just absolutely love the theory

[sterile jacinth]

I really like lace I think she was written very well

Tormented eternal child <3

[toxic mulch]

I like the thought of lace willingly sacrificing part of her identity to give phantom one

[toxic mulch]

[sterile jacinth]

Ah shit here we go again

[toxic mulch]

I hope lace can finally begin to heal with hornet as a mentor

[sterile jacinth]

I imagine them with a sibling relationship. I feel like lace would love bothering Hornet

[toxic mulch]

Lol yes

Lace would be that annoying little sister

[sterile jacinth]

The ending title screen with hornets needle and laces pin implies they left Pharloom together

[toxic mulch]

I don't necessarily think they left pharloom but they're definitely travelling together from now on

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah for sure

[toxic mulch]

I think hornet would likely stick around long enough to help put new leaders in charge such as sherma

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah for sure

Dragging laces ass to rebuild Pharloom

[quick geyser]

Hell yeah

[toxic mulch]

Team cherry make a dlc where it's lace,hornet,and shakra all going on a new adventure as a dnd party 🙏

[sterile jacinth]

“Nope cmon you’ve done damage to these lands too you’re helping rebuild”

[toxic mulch]

I wonder where they'd put the new seat of government

Bellhart?

[sterile jacinth]

Sherma id guess

[toxic mulch]

Well sherma as a leader but I mean I think they'd make bellhart the new capital

[sterile jacinth]

Fair enough

Citadel is full of corpses now

[toxic mulch]

Unless songclave would be the capital but it seems too small

The citadel would be a long project to get working again

New deals and alliances etc

what I'd give for an act 4 dlc all about helping pharloom rebuild while new threats emerge

Steel assassins and lifeblood

I just wanna see more stories of rebuilding,MAKE MORE GAMES WITH A POSTGAME DAMNIT

[sterile jacinth]

I want to see lace and Hornet hang out

That but opposite

[muted lantern]

hornet would throw lace into lava again

[robust wagon]

Sherma too, he's the healer

[toxic mulch]

Sherma is a bard

[robust wagon]

Sure

[toxic mulch]

Shakra is a bard/monk multiclass,lace would be a rogue maybe?,hornet is a fighter

[thick imp]

listening to city of tears rn but it just makes me realize how important hallownest is, ||it birthed two beings that were able to save kingdoms (although a little late) but still for one kingdom/(pale king) to have done that alone is pretty crazy||

[sterile jacinth]

I think hornets dnd class would depend on her crest tbh

[toxic mulch]

But he didn't do it alone

[toxic mulch]

Fair enough

Architect would obviously be artificer,hunter would be fighter,reaper bloodhunter?,witch warlock or sorcerer,shaman wizard,beast barbarian,wanderer rogue

[sterile jacinth]

Reaper maybe paladin because of how much silk you get

Witch would definitely be warlock

[upper copper]

Does those verse have non weaver spiders?

[toxic mulch]

Man I'd love to play dnd again

[toxic mulch]

Huh?

Do you mean are there spiders that aren't weavers? If so yes

[sterile jacinth]

Other than Herrah (who looks nothing like the other weavers and might just be a retcon)

Ah I think I misread your question oops

[toxic mulch]

Herrah irl is a product of being designed separately from the weavers by Ari,in lore we have no clue why she looks different

[sterile jacinth]

Common Pharlids are what weavers originally were

My theory is that she was just elevated from a different bug but that’s speculation

[toxic mulch]

That's the running theory rn it seems,she was simply ascended from a different arachnid

[sterile jacinth]

Hence the beast title

[toxic mulch]

Perhaps

[heavy gyro]

Yeah she looks like those mites

[craggy smelt]

it's a fun thought

[humble peak]

why tf can cogwork automata get voided wh

[craggy smelt]

if they have silk in there, they're vulnerable

[humble peak]

cogwork void mass is insane

[humble peak]

Do you guys think there's any significance to the particular places we find Pharlids?

[abstract rivet]

how’d Nyleth die

[craggy smelt]

you ripped her heart out

[craggy smelt]

not really - there are some near the surface, and it seems like GMS descended from above, or at least her Haunting never targeted the bugs above her

[humble peak]

and it seems like GMS descended from above, or at least her Haunting never targeted the bugs above her
What do those two statements have to do with each other?

[fringe slate]

Can someone do me a quick recap of Widow's lore?

[humble peak]

GMS simp

that's about all we know

[lone folio]

Well no

[humble peak]

ok well
First generation weaver, the last of them
Had her face fucking ripped off
GMS simp

can they?

[lone folio]

In the cradle there is a cage with a choral commandment most likely referring to widow

[humble peak]

maybe less "dying" and more just desolate areas

[humble peak]

no there isn't
Widow is a first generation weaver

this is about a third generation weaver

[lone folio]

How do you know she's a first?

[humble peak]

also weavenest atla

[humble peak]

journal entry?

[lone folio]

Where can I find the genetic information of a Weaver?

[humble peak]

also the needolin spot in the cradle

she's the last of the first

[humble peak]

oh my bad ig i imagined that bit

but there is the needolin dialogue in the cradle, lemme pull it up

[lone folio]

YES

I WAS FASTER

[humble peak]

i have been owned

[craggy smelt]

neat, just learned that chamber in the cradle is the one you see in Widow's memory

got the harps and such

[lone folio]

So she's the last of the first of the Weavers.. So there was or is another Weaver who was staked to service

[humble peak]

we don't know what "staked to service" means

[lone folio]

I mean it's clearly something to do with serving someone

[humble peak]

yeah but it's not specific
and we don't know that Widow was "staked to service" at all

[craggy smelt]

could be something steel related
I would have thought it referred to what was done with Widow, with the pins, but I did wonder why it wouldn't say 'pinned to service' or similar

[abstract rivet]

no like before

[molten python]

Wasn't that about the Weaver descendant in the City of Steel?

[humble peak]

yes!

[craggy smelt]

I don't think she's dead, I think she just withered away as the Citadel's influence grew under GMS
like with Karmelita

[molten python]

Why is it being connected to Widow then? Is there any relation?

[humble peak]

good question

[lone folio]

Whatever staked to service means its probably been forced to either do whatever the citadel tells it to do or it could have something to do with taking the Weavers silk

[humble peak]

"staked to service" could well refer to where/how they found her
maybe she was in service to the city of steel

[molten python]

That is how I initially interpreted it.

[lone folio]

Oh wait, the staked to service thing is in the spot where it says for example "mortally wounded" so she was captured like that

[humble peak]

yeah

[craggy smelt]

it says 'tracked and taken' even after 'mortally wounded' though
that bit could describe their state when found or what their final fate was

[molten python]

Nyleth probably was dead. Karmelita is obviously alive when we meet her. We never even see Nyleth, only a statue in the shrine that the Citadel built for her.

[craggy smelt]

Sister Splinter also mentions someone 'sleeping deep'
it may be that she lost her physical form and become just a presence in the Shellwood, enough to maintain whatever magic you wind up getting from the heart
like whatever enchantment was enthralling Seth

[humble peak]

Yeah there's textual evidence to suggest she's not dead dead

Some say Khan isn't dead dead either, so none of them are

There is some evidence to that too, since all the coral dudes disintegrate when they die, and that happens to Khan's body once you take the heart.

[craggy smelt]

yeah, those crab guys might've been hanging on in some small way
like the Watcher

[humble peak]

watcher is such a dude why'd he have to attack us like that

[craggy smelt]

He can't help himself at all

Watching on the edge

[untold glen]

Sula: The spires... and beneath...

[craggy smelt]

(didn't know Sula had Needolin dialogue~!)

[dusk kraken]

Has anyone deciphered what the lore tablets on the path to shaman crest were for

[fossil ledge]

They appear to be recipes for Shaman spells

[craggy smelt]

some real 'eye of newt' shit in there

[dusk kraken]

Ok that was my guess too

Shrine maiden apple pie or something

[craggy smelt]

snail shamans...
where are weevil witches?

or some other 'w' bug

[dusk kraken]

Cornifers grandma somewhere

[craggy smelt]

steel revelations~!

both Jinn and Zi are surrounded by the same steely stuff - ovals and spires, even a steel surface beneath them (visible through the sand in Zi's chamber)
are they affecting the environment, turning stuff to metal? is this setup like a warp pylon back to the City of Steel? is it something else?!

[opaque pier]

Are seers supposed to be like just beings that observe?

[craggy smelt]

I think so
her needolin dialogue hints at her purpose

Watch long... Record clear... Remember...

[opaque pier]

Why give them individuality them, why give them conscience at all, thats kinda cruel ngl, not cool steel masters :(

[regal crow]

Her powers were sealed when she was captured before the start of the game. She explains it to the snail lady at the start of the game

[granite stirrup]

Nah watch next game steel masters will be final boss and we get shown that gms isnt a bad ruler compared to them

[timber pond]

Probably because of thier creation process.

[feral thistle]

Wow I was questioning why Silksong killed green prince after getting everbloom but if you kill Karmelita last instead her explanation is even funnier

"I just needed to train a lil"

[tropic flint]

In the thingys we get the silk skills from, where we bind, are those like actual physical weavers or just carved/statues?

this might seem like a stupid question but I just wanna make sure

[feral thistle]

I think those are the shrines of dead weavers

[tropic flint]

I see

[fossil ledge]

They appear to be mummified Weaver corpses

[feral thistle]

The main proof for that would be First Sinner but that bossfight feels more like Hornet hallucinating after a silk overdose

[timber pond]

They are mumified weavers because hornet binds them

And also they talk to her lol

[tropic flint]

that makes sense thanks I completely forgot they have dialogue

[manic pewter]

Yeah wiki calls them grave sites or something

lemme see what theyre called in the files im curious

yeah in files theyre called weaver_corpse_shrine

[stark halo]

I think Hornet refers to one as a burial spire at some point, so the wiki uses burial spires as their general term

[hoary furnace]

they also make whispering/breathing sounds before you bind them

[merry apex]

Just read some dialogues from the wiki, interesting that Zylotol specifically mentions that plasmium couldn't have been found in barren grey soil of main land and only be found and produced deep inside the salt stricken waters

Does that mean plasmium originally grew underwater?

[primal ruin]

who would win? lost lace or pure vessel

[merry apex]

I guess that would make sense for them to come with seeds to a dry barren land which is wormways to experiment how plasmium would behave in an environment very different from it's origin or at least suspected origin

[lilac hedge]

What beast does the skull tyrants skull come from

[vestal swan]

Something dead

[granite idol]

The extinct spiky beastfly

[unique lodge]

I'm serious

[vestal swan]

Don't shitpost in here

[silk dirge]

this actually might not be completely off lol

apparently theres evidence beastflies used to control large parts of pharloom

this is like pre old hearts

and then skarr hunted them

[lapis moth]

we know how the water of coral dried up?

[vestal swan]

It probably got diverted to be used in the citadel

[lapis moth]

thank you

[merry apex]

About that, do we think that water was going from above even high halls or more from mount fay side of things?

[lapis moth]

the water was going from coral tower

mount fay probally didnt have water, fayforn is older than citadel

[gleaming spade]

Do we know why Hornet is sick at the beginning and in act 3? I assumed she could just be drained/wounded from the exertion of both events but it's kind of a weird way to represent that as like bursts of pain. Is it her struggling against the haunting because she has silk in her?

[vestal swan]

Weaked by runes and almost dying

[lapis moth]

the bursts of pain probally its because she is walking while almost dying, and gets more tired

like us when we lose our breath from running

[fresh badger]

What evidence

[silk dirge]

hornet mentions the lowlands of pharloom still being ruled by great beasts in her savage beastfly entry

plus the primal beastfly that you bind to get beast crest

its not strong evidence but it would make sense there was a time lots of pharloom was very wild and didnt have civilization

and then skarr came and hunted the beastflies probably

[fresh badger]

Oh huh, yeah, I didnt read that entry

I see it more as just "the marrowlands are still the territory of wild beasts rather than civilizations"

Which is kinda contradictory given the skarr civilization but hey

Also the beast crest thing isnt a beastfly???

[silk dirge]

it is

an ancient one

it has lots of similarities

[fresh badger]

This looks nothing like a beastfly

[silk dirge]

fill in the crack in the head

it has the exact same shape

also same eye shape

[fresh badger]

Looks like a generic ancient beast to me

Beastflies have yknow. Wings.

Those look more like ancient beast horns than a caved open head too

[silk dirge]

they are obvious cracks

the way they extend into the head

they also arent symmetrical

[fresh badger]

Dude you cannot look at that and tell me with a straight face thats a beastfly

😭

[silk dirge]

fill in the cracks

its literally the exact same head shape

[fresh badger]

Brother 😭 ok this is pointless to argue

[silk dirge]

im being serious lol you are overlooking several similarities

the wings probably were the first thing to decompose its been in there a while

i had an image with a filled in head let me see if i can find it

[median arrow]

How do yall think the white lady would react to hornets needolin. Would it be similar when she got hit with the dream nail or different

[fresh badger]

Who knows needolin is bullshit

Probably the same as dream nail I guess

[silk dirge]

found it https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1380233368523898991/1427431011071037554/image.png?ex=690739f9&is=6905e879&hm=455d56232520e37fd7c52bcad1e01af04991a2e101bff7c37ad267a920659445&

[median arrow]

The reason why I am saying it is the dream nail is direct access to the mind. But the needolin doesn't seem to be as much direct access. Although not sure

[fresh badger]

Bro you CANNOT be serious

This is like saying bellbeast looks like a grom I cant

[silk dirge]

im not saying its a savage beastfly but it is definitely a related creature probably an ancient ancestor

much like how groms are probably related to bell beast probably being a cousin species of some kind

[vestal swan]

I know your Durandoo headass ain't talking

[fresh badger]

Sure I guess, thats better than "savage beastflies were huge and rule the marrow"

Oh hi snow

[vestal swan]

Howdy

Anyway it is suggested to be an ancestor by the needolin dialogue

Horrible drawings of a hat on a dead body aside

[silk dirge]

yeah

i should try blending it in better

[vestal swan]

You don't need to it's very obvious that those are cracks

They run all the way to its eyeball

[silk dirge]

some people are insistent their horns 😭

even after i point out they arent symmetric and extend down

[dry bridge]

do-do you mean bell eater

[vestal swan]

Whatsa grom

[fresh badger]

...Our food...
...Life... Death... Nature...
...Remember..."```
?

[dry bridge]

nvm was thinking of the wrong enemy

[silk dirge]

the wormways guys

[vestal swan]

?

[fresh badger]

Thats the chapel needolin

Sounds like skarr yapping

[dry bridge]

disregard this I was thinking you meant garpedes not groms

[vestal swan]

Maybe it's the Savage bitchfly arena room

[silk dirge]

savage beastfly dialog

[fresh badger]

Huh

[dry bridge]

savage beastfly does say "ancestor's echo" which seems rather on the nose

but the ancient corpse has an extra set of eyes

[silk dirge]

evolution probably

[fresh badger]

Thats normal for ancient corpses

I'll admit ancestors echo is pretty damming

Why didnt you lead with that dawg

[silk dirge]

bc visual evidence is cooler idk

[vestal swan]

Because they assumed you were discrediting the image repeatedly and nobody brought up the dialogue

[fresh badger]

The image is mid

[silk dirge]

anyways "our foes" seems interesting as well

[fresh badger]

Skarr

[silk dirge]

probably referring to skarr?

[fresh badger]

Ooh right I have a crackpot theory

[silk dirge]

wouldnt be surprising if like beastflies were the primary food source of skarr or like hunted as a sort of rite of passage for skarr

[fresh badger]

So yknow the funky egg/cocoon things in the moss mother arena thats implied to either be mossgrub eggs/mossmir cocoons

[silk dirge]

yeah

[fresh badger]

And yknow that one nursery room in lost verdania which has those same eggs that instead hatch into kindanirs

[silk dirge]

yeah

[frank flame]

Can someone give me the actual order of events or correct them because I'm confused. This is what I think it is like:

-Pharloom established with normal society
-GMS is there (or always has been?)
-Lace and phantom made
-Weavers made
-Rebellion
-Religion created to guard GMS somehow
-Citadel made to maintain religion (not already existing and transformed for religious use?)
-Weaver escape

[fresh badger]

Hear me out: this only makes sense when you remember verdania was originally next to moss grotto BUT:

Verdanians are parasites, they would steal the mossmir cocoons/eggs, and lay their own eggs inside so their young can feast on the mossmir. Thats why we see the same eggs in the verdania houses (and not anywhere in verdania itself), and why they instead hatch into kindanir

Theres no way two entirely different species with entirely different morphology and intelligence just happen to have identical eggs

[silk dirge]

interesting

[spring merlin]

Where was this said remind me

[silk dirge]

acmi maps

[fresh badger]

Also memorium mimicks the layout of pharloom

And verdania area is still to the left of the moss grotto in memorium

[spring merlin]

I’m referring part about the eggs

[fresh badger]

Which part

[dry bridge]

would that make the verdanians like, parasitoid wasps instead of the assumed mantises?

[fresh badger]

Maybe

[spring merlin]

Didnt read it well so this part is the theory right?

[fresh badger]

Yeah

[dry bridge]

I believe the intent is drawing a parallel between the eggs in lost verdania & the eggs/cocoons int he moss mother arena

they do look a fair bit different now that I've got the images together though

[fresh badger]

Oh yeah huh

[silk dirge]

yeah

[fresh badger]

I thought it was the same sprite

[dry bridge]

moss eggs have a 3-leaf design while verdanian eggs have a few more and meet a different point

[fresh badger]

Indeed..

Ok fine I'll rework it so they're shrimply related

Wait they do have similar wings and cloak and abdomen

And the -ir ending (mossmir, kindanir, verdanir)

[vestal swan]

And they're both cabbage patch babies

[vestal swan]

GMS shows up and creates weavers
GMS is an ass to her neighbors
One of the weavers finds out the LIE
Some weavers get locked up
Weavers fully rebel
The citadel might have existed already with the weavers and GMS running it by this point
Now it's just the weavers and some of them are planning to leave
They eventually passed the burden on to the citadel bugs and the rest of the weavers that are left leave
Some of us assume that phantom was made during or right after the weavers started to rebel or discover the LIE
Lace seems to have been the last ditch effort right before getting sealed or during the haunting, it doesn't really have a solid point either
It was religious nonsense the entire time with first the god ruling it and then her first creations and then they passed it to normal bugs
Eventually those bugs did not keep up the ritual to keep her asleep and The haunting started where she started taking over everybody like puppets
She used to these puppets to hunt down weavers to regain strength and escape
This is the rough order of events to the best of my knowledge right this moment

[frank flame]

Ty

[edgy nebula]

do we think now that nyleth is completely dead that the splinters will rule shellwood

[eternal gazelle]

Sister Splinter was the last of her kind so probably not

[edgy nebula]

yeah but we still have the smaller splinters

[sterile jacinth]

Probably some citadel higher up through gms

Probably not a conductor but someone who’s higher up

[honest sun]

any song can keep gms sleep, right¿

[sterile jacinth]

Not clear

It’s said that bugs that are haunted kind of carry on what they were doing before so it might be that

Like they have some weird degree of consciousness

I mean she might have

Like been able to lol

But hey if it works it works

Yeah I don’t think they would. Unless they’re that pissed off af the weavers

[maiden topaz]

How come there were so much more gods in Hallownest than in Pharloom?

[sterile jacinth]

People don’t seem to remember them too fondly

[weary crescent]

is SS happenning (story wise) before or after HK?

[sterile jacinth]

Probably gms. She’s very hostile

[sterile jacinth]

After

-# also try to use sk as an abbreviation because ss is associated with 1940s Germany

[weary crescent]

not a history guy, but from the year range i kinda get it, i'll keep that in mind

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah that’s why it changed in the server lol

[smoky haven]

I used to believe in that one theory on reddit that pale beings can't create their own worshippers but gms made lace and phantom so...

[sterile jacinth]

Pretty sure rad created the moths and unn created the mosskin

[smoky haven]

I said PALE beings

[sterile jacinth]

I mean they obviously have some kind of control over a bugs mind

Not all of them

[smoky haven]

so the theory could still be valid

[sterile jacinth]

Gms wanted a child. The weavers betrayed her so she created a new one that would have to rely on her to even live

[smoky haven]

why didn't gms make 500 laces from the start is she stupid??

sarcasm btw

[sterile jacinth]

Imagine fighting 500 silkborn

[smoky haven]

all of them void soaked

[sterile jacinth]

[smoky haven]

zoteboat is a thing???

(abs)raddd

[honest sun]

why not 1000

[smoky haven]

ask gramma silk

oh wait! she's DEAD

[silk dirge]

random thing if anyone says first sinner was imprisoned by gms theyre straight up just wrong

its not an interpretation thing theres straight up a citadel symbol on her cage

[nimble kayak]

What are yall’s thoughts on the theory that the First Sinner is Atla?

[edgy nebula]

id say probably true

[silk dirge]

it would make sense

actually a thing i want to point out all weaver effigies match up with the weaver spire in the areas they are in

camora is found near mosshome and the weaver spire there has a sign at the bottom talking about how she heals

[regal crow]

Is zango voided or is it pure plasmium that resurrected him?

[edgy nebula]

plasmium

[regal crow]

Interesting

[edgy nebula]

there isnt any trace of void in wormways

[silk dirge]

and the one in chapel of the witch talks about protection

[trail roost]

how was verdania close to moss grotto

[silk dirge]

and would you guess what

the weaver spire there talks about protection

[regal crow]

That’s interesting. Is lifeblood immune to the void? We know there’s a big cache of it in the abyss in hk1

[fresh badger]

Old maps and also memorium layout mimics pharloom layout and it has verdania next to moss grotto

And you can see tiny pendragors in moss grotto

[trail roost]

how come verdania changed position then? Even in the Green Prince's memory it was at the far east

[fresh badger]

Because team cherry stinks

Oh yeah and the wormways tunnel the big fat acid spitter was in used to be verdania themed

[regal crow]

Why’d they rename lifeblood plasmium?

[edgy nebula]

they didnt

[fresh badger]

Because team cherry stinks

[lean temple]

They didn't. It's what Zylotol names it himself

[edgy nebula]

zylotol calls it plasmium cause he doesnt know it’s called lifeblood in hallownest

[fresh badger]

Eva does call it blood though so yay

[regal crow]

Oooohhh

[fresh badger]

Yeah and hornet just goes along with his name and calls everyrhing lifeblood related plasmium

[lean temple]

So what?

Why would she care to "correct" it

[fresh badger]

Hornet knows what lifeblood is and her journal and tools dont rename it to what she is used to calling it

[lean temple]

Hallownest named it Lifeblood, Zylotol named it Plasmium

[regal crow]

Come to think of it, does anyone in hk1 refer to it by name

[fresh badger]

Plasmium seems to be the new name

[trail roost]

would be really weird gameplay-wise if she did tbh

[fresh badger]

Slob salubra

[regal crow]

Ah

[lean temple]

It's like people in a particular place call it pineapple and in another place ananas. It doesn't matter. If you're in Pharloom you'd use the Pharloom name so people would understand what you're talking about

It's so inconsequential

[fresh badger]

Anyways yo isnt it cool how chapel of the wanderer needolin mirrors the needolin for bonegrave and shellwood grave

[trail roost]

btw are there any good sk lore videos/channels?

[fresh badger]

Chapel

...We walked...
...We climbed...
...We fell...
...Once we wandered...
...The lands revealed..."```
Graves
```"...Not worthy...
...Alone, without you...
...Climb and serve...
...Die and serve..."```

[lean temple]

The great bag and moss has yet to release his video. And people are still debating the lore tbh

[molten python]

Zylotol's master was the one to discover and name it.

[edgy nebula]

alot of lore is also really vague

[lean temple]

Fair enough. Doesn't change my point but thanks though

[edgy nebula]

oh i didnt realize zylotol's master was gendered

[lean temple]

Apparently Lifeblood can tolerate extreme salinity too

[edgy nebula]

lifeblood is an infection almost so it makes sense it be resistant to alot of stuff

[lean temple]

Yea

[edgy nebula]

watch gorb be related to the lifeblood or something, if it ever gets explained

[lean temple]

Omg

[sinful nimbus]

Revived Joni

Zango establishes plasmified corpses can come back

[lean temple]

That's a new theory

[dry bridge]

I think zango gets zombied specifically because of how they use plasmium (injected vs consumption) while joni's body just gets overtaken and passes, creating a lifeblood grove around her because its influence is taking shape in a different way

[silk dirge]

this is definitely gonna be a boss fight in a dlc

[dry bridge]

I am firm in the belief that while the wormways would be overtaken by plamium plants due to its introduction, it's specifically xylotl injecting it into bugs that leads to it manifesting in this specific way

[silk dirge]

yeah

[abstract rivet]

bilewater is too small

[north roost]

im telling you that place has got to be to the right of the door in shakras room

[radiant badger]

Ngl this one is the most possible to be real. Looks very legit

[abstract rivet]

fr

[sinful nimbus]

This isn't right

this isn't my Barnacle Bay 😔

"Pharloom Bay" \🥀

[edgy nebula]

barnacle bay is home to the secret boss: barnacle boy

unironically a real barnacle boss would be cool

[arctic cliff]

Her lifeblood spire on Pharloom Bay

This is where she found lifeblood

[silk dirge]

this is dlc 100%

[snow sonnet]

I'll never forgive them for taking away my goat

[silk dirge]

no way they mention that in game and dont elaborate

[edgy nebula]

they dont mention a spire at all i dont think

[sinful nimbus]

Watch Barnacle Bay be Garmond's destroyed Hometown 💔

[silk dirge]

not a spire but that plasmium was discovered there

[arctic cliff]

Ari sketchbook

[sinful nimbus]

Lost Lomm

Cinema

[silk dirge]

why does lomm look like the dead savage beastfly right next to him 😭

[arctic cliff]

Her lab up there

[snow sonnet]

Wonder if they cut Pharloom Bay just cuz they wanted to polish/change more and just have the game out, it still seems to fit current Pharloom

[silk dirge]

yeah probably

[sinful nimbus]

I would've waited longer if it meant the game was more finished

[arctic cliff]

“From depths below…weaving one’s beckon”
“Friends seduced”
“Sweet promises whispered”
Long silence
“Now only the wind…”

[edgy nebula]

8 is a lame number, i wouldve preferred to wait 9 years

[silk dirge]

would you wait 67 years for silksong

[sinful nimbus]

Its kinda unfortunate that DLC can't really change a first playthrough

[arctic cliff]

Redditor have found the door that leads to the Pharloom Bay

This door still can be found

[arctic cliff]

Bilewater, room where you buy the map

[silk dirge]

yeah i dont think they would leave it there unless they actually planned to use it

🙏

i would also like to see shakras tribes village

tho maybe we wont bc shakra says that leaving the village is a one way journey

so she cant go back with us

[silk dirge]

it can if you get amnesia

this method not recommended by doctors

[sinful nimbus]

So I just gotta get team cherry to rewrite all my lore and give me amnesia for no reason 🙏

[silk dirge]

the getting amnesia method is up to you

do not ask ari or william to hit you on the head with something to get amnesia

[lean temple]

Leave Hallownest and relinquish your mind. Simple

[arctic cliff]

Silksong assets, why TC

Why it’s in here

[daring breach]

Cuz funny

I saw those and laughed

There’s a bunch of other default unity assets in there somewhere

[edgy nebula]

are those actually in silksong

[silk dirge]

i think those are just default unity assets

[arctic cliff]

Not in Silksong itself

[snow sonnet]

Yeah while im excited for new content this is the bummer

[arctic cliff]

But in assets is hkss

[daring breach]

In the asset files unused prolly. Default unity stuff they just didn’t delete

[arctic cliff]

Oh

Damn

[silk dirge]

yeah bc if they delete it the game breaks

[daring breach]

….

[silk dirge]

wasnt that one image in that valve game not actually game breaking

i forgot which one

[edgy nebula]

it was like a coconut or something wasnt it

[silk dirge]

yeah

[snow sonnet]

Guilty Grive Strive is held together by the Goku model deep within the files aswell

[arctic cliff]

Mist was firstly named “Dust maze”

Hey, a bench

[sinful nimbus]

Seems like all of Sinner's Road was going to be that

[snow sonnet]

Rest in peace dustpillo

[sinful nimbus]

TRUE

[snow sonnet]

I don't know why tc equipped you in footage as late as june 2025 but unfortunate

[sinful nimbus]

[arctic cliff]

Pharloom bay menu art after you sit on the bench in this area

Town name : “Clam village”

[regal crow]

Clam? That’s a xenomorph egg

[sonic sleet]

when we get silksong godhome or whatever its gonna be there should be fights with qurriel, vespa, pure vessel and the knight they could be good for final bosses of pantheons

[regal crow]

Shade lord knight

[heavy gyro]

Whats quirrel gotta do with silksong 🙏

[silk dirge]

the real missed cut content is that marrow bell section that was shown for like 2 seconds in 2019

[mossy cloud]

I need a bit of an explanation on the sister of the void ending

[silk dirge]

the bells looked so out of place lol

[snow sonnet]

That was bellhart

But ye that bell asset was so jarring compared to anything else lol

[silk dirge]

some people have pointed out the bell layout is really similar to a layout of red flowers in hunters march

so maybe it was a really early version of that

[foggy fractal]

the real missed cut content is the bagpipers

[edgy nebula]

always bet on coral gorge dlc

[sinful nimbus]

Old Bellhart

[silk dirge]

suspicious coral tower ledges

[foggy fractal]

oh yeah star I finished that fake screenshot

[sinful nimbus]

It should've been that it got more and more shiny as you complete quests

[edgy nebula]

give us our hidden coral gorge

[sinful nimbus]

[edgy nebula]

after act 3 it just turns all white

once you enter the area you cant see anything

[sinful nimbus]

That's what the shining citadel should've been

[arctic cliff]

Reddit is going crazy

[silk dirge]

i really hope we get the random light source hb boss fight in dlc

[sinful nimbus]

Its blindingly bright until you void everything and then you can finally see

[silk dirge]

brother can you spare me some pixels

[lean temple]

Omg

[edgy nebula]

do the crustcrags in memorium imply khann fell post-citadel.. humm

[lean temple]

We need clearer images :(

[arctic cliff]

Welp

[silk dirge]

you know what i really want in dlc

a fucking citadel demolition cutscene

that shit would be so fun

[arctic cliff]

That’s the best quality possible

[lean temple]

Darn

[silk dirge]

have like a quest setting up explosives in the citadel

and watch it explode

make sure every living person is safe

wouldnt want to accidentally kill cardinius

[sinful nimbus]

TRUUUUUE

Obligatory

[edgy nebula]

ballow and mottled skarr dangerously low

[sinful nimbus]

Mottled Skarr has always died before I got the chance to talk to him 😭

[foggy fractal]

you gotta do a boss tier list next, still based on lore though

[silk dirge]

savage beastfly s tier

savage beastfly lore is crazy

[lean temple]

Really put Karms in B

[edgy nebula]

he provides the most lore on mottled skarrs and gives you good tools for cheap, what isnt to love!

[edgy nebula]

savage beastfly needolin dialogue is the only reason we know that you get beast crest from an ancestral beastfly

[edgy nebula]

we find karm too late for her to be impactful imo, hornet killing her for no reason is hilarious though

[lean temple]

Still the goat regardless

[edgy nebula]

khann's better...

[arctic cliff]

The void cult…

[arctic cliff]

It was cut

Why, TC, WHY

[silk dirge]

honestly im really curious how snail shamans fit into the story before act 3 was conceived

bc chapel maid and caretaker were always gonna be snail shamans

[edgy nebula]

probably be a quest that gives you shaman crest

[silk dirge]

maybe

[sinful nimbus]

🗣️

Sorry Garmondbros

[sinful nimbus]

Karm has barely any lore

Remove her from the game and barely anything would change

[silk dirge]

id like to get a karamel latte

[sinful nimbus]

Bring back ant structures 🥹

[silk dirge]

sorry thats the thing i always think of when i think of karmelita lmao

[snow sonnet]

"all alone against the pale light" makes me think it was pre-citadel

[arctic cliff]

“Erase our fear,
Eliminate our desire,
To suffer no more,
Void, cleanse us”

[foggy fractal]

😔 crawfather demoted ?

[arctic cliff]

Void cult

[sinful nimbus]

Crawfather runs off of pure aura

[silk dirge]

time to summon crawfather fan

[sinful nimbus]

There's no lore under the hood

[silk dirge]

the lore is literally real life lol

irl crows

[sinful nimbus]

In prime #hk-lore this sentence would get you jumped

[foggy fractal]

still pissed that second sentinel got a small ass arena instead of that cool one 😔

[sinful nimbus]

true but I still kinda like it

[silk dirge]

i wonder if originally she was gonna guard cogwork dancers instead of a bunch of grand reeds

[edgy nebula]

second sentinel's arena is too small, theyd benefit from a bigger one

[snow sonnet]

It would've been so awesome
It would've been so cool

[vestal swan]

It's kind of funny that her arena is basically a supply closet

[snow sonnet]

Genuienly even this lighting I miss, gives it a unique vibe

[edgy nebula]

every boss that got a big arena deserved a smaller one

[arctic cliff]

“In silence your voice,
In darkness you form,
We higher who see you seeking,
Our shells yearn for your embrace

[foggy fractal]

also do we think second sentinel's character changed ? given the voice was so different back then

[silk dirge]

i can understand why this lighting got removed tho

[edgy nebula]

savage beastfly should NOT be able to fly offscreen that is bullshit!!

[silk dirge]

this lighting wouldve been really bad for a lot of people

even if it does cook

[snow sonnet]

hm fair

[vestal swan]

Return the favor by firing tools from off screen

[foggy fractal]

it would've been peak 🙏 also does anywhere else use this sort of darkend effect on the characters ?

[sinful nimbus]

Oh wow the lighting is different

[snow sonnet]

I'm p sure no for reasons sealforn said

[silk dirge]

apparently you can lure far fields beastfly outside the arena and get it trapped in a corner lol

[sinful nimbus]

It had final boss vibes

Like you knwo the end is near when the hallway is that cinematic

[edgy nebula]

in both of my playthroughs i cheesed beastfly 2

[foggy fractal]

it's not like that room was scraped though it still exists
waiting for someone to mod second sentinel into the 2019 version 🙏

[silk dirge]

maybe this just lead straight to the elevator and cogwork dancers didnt exist

[sinful nimbus]

I mean it could've just been a generic enemy that the Reeds replaced

[silk dirge]

yeah

do we have acmi maps that show that area

im kinda curious if we can make anything out

[sinful nimbus]

Rewatching the 2019 trailer is sad

My colored blood 🥹

[silk dirge]

2019 fourth chorus is so funny lol

i dont think far fields existed back then

[sinful nimbus]

Game got a lot more vibrant

[silk dirge]

oh yeah its so desaturated lol

[foggy fractal]

ari also cranked up the details on assets

[silk dirge]

look at the xbox trailer lol

it looks so desaturated youd think someone put a filter on it

[sinful nimbus]

Songclave looked a lot cozier and safer

[snow sonnet]

I miss Hunter's Nest

[sinful nimbus]

I do like the cleaner look of the new one though

[snow sonnet]

Ants deserved better

[silk dirge]

top 10 images you can hear

AHOII OIII AHOIII

[quartz salmon]

only because the background is closer