sk-lore

[lilac hedge]

People need the vadilation thats simply what it is

[timber pond]

Skarr enjoyer and scoot my homies now

[hoary furnace]

they absolutely do, i doubt all the webbing in deepnest is just from weavers

[silk dirge]

i think the way i would handle herrah is bc hornet was part spider and part pale being she basically internally does what gms did to pharlids and ascends herself some way

[sterile jacinth]

You’re being a jerk. It’s not fun to theorize with someone who’s so vicious about what they think :/
You can think whatever you want of me I don’t really care. I just prefer not to talk to you

[timber pond]

See star i was right

[sinful nimbus]

Lmao

[lilac hedge]

Paradox i thought we were friends bruh, u dont remember that time i gave u a granola bar in kindergarten..?😞

[sinful nimbus]

This channel doesn't get old 😭

"No one here dislikes you personally"
"Shut up jerk"

[vestal swan]

Give it 5 more years of this exact conversation

[silk dirge]

i really think you could also do something cool with that one phrase weavers use in that rune harp "silken strength"

[foggy fractal]

nah let's make that 10

[vestal swan]

If I'm still here in 10 years shoot me

[foggy fractal]

with what though ? rosary canon ?

[sinful nimbus]

Never stop fighting the good fight

If #sk-discussion is for Red Memory I am against #sk-discussion

[foggy fractal]

🧓

[sinful nimbus]

This isn't sk-discussion but whatever

[hoary furnace]

i really hope there's more lore buried somewhere in silksong

[sterile jacinth]

I’m checking out. You guys have fun

[hoary furnace]

like was with the discovery of the vitruvian grub in hk

[silk dirge]

my idea is you could just do for the child curse is weavers are all female so they cant have children with each other but they can have children with non weavers which would explain little weavers, however those guys arent "silken strength" and are weaker

[sinful nimbus]

Crawfather lore tablet that goes into in-depth detail on the Craw Court legal system

[silk dirge]

then you could maybe work out something with what i was talking about before where hornet internally pharlid ascended herself

[vestal swan]

I can't believe the Australians opted out of a kangaroo court and gave us crows instead

[lilac hedge]

Whats there to talk about plasmium

[vestal swan]

How bad it is

[hoary furnace]

its good in moderation perhaps?

[lilac hedge]

Game wise or like it being an infection

[sinful nimbus]

Is Mosscord banned now

[vestal swan]

Both?

[silk dirge]

and then possibly have something with weavers blessing herrah during her birth seeing hornet as being "silken strength" to free pharloom from gms

[timber pond]

Debating on what the motive of its driving force is.

[silk dirge]

i will gladly steal the hornet getting rejected by the hive idea for my how to improve silksong story

[lilac hedge]

Using architects build u basically have hiveblood for hornet which is very useful so i dont see where its bad game wise

[frosty gate]

It seems like Lifeblood is basically Inmortality in a Bottle with a chance of excruciating suffering

[silk dirge]

that idea is pretty cool

[vestal swan]

I mean fighting is not using it

Also villainous infectious higher beings is just kind of lame we already had two of them, why can't we get another cool passive one that hands out Gatorade

[foggy fractal]

if only

[frosty gate]

Unn hands out monster, is it good?

[sinful nimbus]

Gameplay wise Lifeblood is involved in a boring fetch quest
Lore wise it makes Hornet look incredibly evil for not warning the scientist and instead aiding in his experiment

[timber pond]

Well, considering it drags a whole area into the dream realm in hollow knight 1, kind of like a reversal of what UNN does, its probably far worse.

[silk dirge]

random light source higher being

[vestal swan]

It's like monster fused with a five gum commercial

[vestal swan]

To be fair she tried to correct him about what it was and he called her an idiot

[sinful nimbus]

She never warned him about any of it

She just said "I know this"

[timber pond]

It wouldn't be "evil" if its in thier nature, like it is for pale beings to rule like hornet says.

[hoary furnace]

apparently monstorsities simmilar to the lifeblooded worms did exist in hallownest according to the hunter's journal

[lilac hedge]

Even if she did the alchemliet would not give two shits lore wise

[frosty gate]

That doesn't seem to be what it does tho? I mean, what happened in HK was weird, but no dream shenaningns in Silksong

[vestal swan]

"hey sir do you know what you're drinking maybe do.."
"Nonsense this is life in a bottle also I'm injecting it into my arm"

[frosty gate]

Can't aid a junkie who doesn't want to get help

[vestal swan]

I hate that line so much
But also nothing is like inherently evil in the universe

[sinful nimbus]

She doesn't say not to use it

She literally just says she's seen it before

[vestal swan]

Doesn't she try to correct him about what it is though

[foggy fractal]

does she know ? she knows...

[vestal swan]

Or maybe it's just in the Hunter's journal

[timber pond]

That we can really perceive. Because we don't have a dreamnail. The only reason we can even acess some places in hallownest is because of dreamnail. And it was a one of a kind artifact.

[lilac hedge]

Its not like the alchemist would give two fucks he saw it as life

[sinful nimbus]

What it is and what it does are different things

The scientist not listening to reason is completely made up fanon

Its also still problematic that she HELPS HIM even if that was true

[vestal swan]

I mean yeah but if somebody shuts you up when you're trying to tell them what it is are you going to continue to tell them what it does or you going to let them eat their words

[frosty gate]

Oh no Rad was bad
And GMS is up there

[frosty gate]

Least petty Hornet interaction

[vestal swan]

GMS marginally worse
Because in Rad's case it started with the moths actions
GMS started her own bullshit

[silk dirge]

wait im really confused now

[sinful nimbus]

Ummm when it involves risking the destruction of an entire ecosystem? 🥴

[frosty gate]

"Well you called me an Idiot so I'll let you do your research smartass"

[silk dirge]

"There is an echo also of other infections I have witnessed. I wonder at the meaning of it all... or if I am perhaps imagining similarities where there are none."

hornet talks like she never saw any plasmium infection

but she mentions it in the journal?

[foggy fractal]

Hornet HATES the enviorment...

[vestal swan]

"whoopsie" also maybe she knows a good way to root it up if it starts being a problem and isn't too concerned

[sinful nimbus]

She does not

"Pharloom shall quickly learn the curse of this substance" she doesn't even care 🥶

[vestal swan]

Ah, maybe she's just really stupid. Which is not news but, does dialogue would conflict with the fact that she knows what it does I guess, it's like the dialogue was written about her not knowing but the journal entries are written about her knowing

[timber pond]

Most of the gods in hollowknight are simply using thier dominion of power (they are made of) to continue existing, AKA its in thier nature. This was even the case in Hollow Knight. So I would actually agree its not "evil". Unless you think higher beings of the hollow knight world were MADE to be evil.

[sinful nimbus]

She even basically says Zango deserved it 😭

[foggy fractal]

that line is cold af tho.

[frosty gate]

"We travel through time and kill fucking Zyolotl at birth DLC" trust

[vestal swan]

GMS was just a terrible person, Rad technically had a reason to crash out she just did not have a justification for how bad the crash out was

I'm just going to start reporting all this shit as bugs because it is unbearably stupid to read

[hoary furnace]

Also there's unique dialogue if u wait until act 3 to meet him

[silk dirge]

but hornet talks like shes never witnessed plasmium infection

"There is an echo also of other infections I have witnessed. I wonder at the meaning of it all... or if I am perhaps imagining similarities where there are none."

this is so weird wtf

[bright silo]

she probably knew of lifeblood, but hadn't personally experienced it

[frosty gate]

Knowing Lifeblood and seeing an infection are two things

[silk dirge]

hornet says she saw a lifeblood infection lol

in hallownest

[bright silo]

she says she encountered lifeblood

[timber pond]

Well I read her uplifting the weavers as "Needing a song to sustain" similar to how pale king needed worshipers to continue living to some capacity. Its diffrent schemes, but ultimately to continue thier existing. Also grim capitalizes dead bugs nightmares to continue to perpetually be immortal at the expense of his servants.

[bright silo]

not the takover we see there, unless I'm mistaken

[hoary furnace]

strnage, Plasmidas hunter's journal reads this:

• In my home caves, when once this substance was allowed to flourish, I saw similar aberrations. This is wonder tainted strong with revulsion.

[bright silo]

oh right

[frosty gate]

Hornet def knew Lifeblood, definitely didn't use it because Pale Daddy said it's bad and in Hallownest is very much controlled.
I'm saying this again for the hundreth time, Zyolotl was injecting this shit to things instead of just drinking it in a normal dose like a fucking normal person

[silk dirge]

i feel like ari and william were writing stuff while jack was locked in on programming or smth and then theyre like take a break write some lore for us

[timber pond]

If you really think about it Unn is the only one that isn't a terrible higher being

[silk dirge]

and this happened 😭

[muted lantern]

Unn killed my grandma

[timber pond]

Unn is sin of sloth bassicaly

[bright silo]

lifeblood issues were forshadowed by it being "taboo" in Hallownest though

[hoary furnace]

again, Plasmidas journal entry seems to imply that things mutate bcs of lifeblood even of it just flourishes on it's own

[frosty gate]

You are right, maybe it was a very early thing and PK took care of it quickly.

[fathom hill]

I'm outta the loop what is the inconsistency with lifeblood?

Journal contradicts dialogue?

[silk dirge]

and what we see in hk

[frosty gate]

Not really? It just lets us know that Hornet really just decided to leave Zyolotl to die

And possibly fuck things up

Again

[fathom hill]

I mean we did know that

[frosty gate]

Must be a Pale thing

[fathom hill]

She really did not seem to care at all abt it

[hoary furnace]

also one more thing, The Plasmidas enemies kinda remins me of how Zylotol looks like, even pre-mutation

[silk dirge]

yeah i feel like someone at team cherry wrote all of ts on a day they were sick or smth

[frosty gate]

I mean yeah, but she knew the consequences

[timber pond]

Tbh what could she do? Fucker already injected the shit into the environment

[fathom hill]

She does not seem to care abt the wellbeing of Pharloom unless it was of her own doing

[timber pond]

Like do we ACTUALLY know how to stop lifeblood once its introduced?

[fathom hill]

So she saw these junkies injecting lifeblood and she kind of looked away cause what are you to do

it's not ur problem

[timber pond]

Its never actually explained what that would look like

[frosty gate]

Wrong reply

[fathom hill]

I mean we do not know if the lifeblood infection in hallownest was like super terrible

[frosty gate]

Killing it very fast

[craggy smelt]

fire

[frosty gate]

That shit looks bad

[craggy smelt]

get forge daughter to put together a flame thrower

[silk dirge]

i feel like someone wrote hunters journal without thinking or some shit bc her dialog with zylotol seems the complete opposite of how she is in the journal

[fathom hill]

We only know that she did see mutated bugs because of it

[frosty gate]

Father of the Flame was onto something on god

[timber pond]

Ok but what does that mean? Weedkiller? What is lifeblood actually susceptible to?

[silk dirge]

like she says zango met an unfortunate end instead of mentioning lifeblood killed him

[lilac hedge]

Attacking it doesnt work so i guess getting a lot of the stuff you collected them w

[silk dirge]

it seems she doesnt know

[fathom hill]

But again, it's not like in hallownest there were random junkies injecting it in the flora and fauna

So that could have speeded up the problem

[timber pond]

The journal is her studying something to be fair. So all that lifeblood diolouge is after the fact probably

[frosty gate]

Nothing that we know of.
In the case of Zango and some of the mutated beasts, they seem to be really durable but they die anyway, so you really have to hit them hard to purge it.
Idk about the flora tho

[fathom hill]

In dialogue?

[hoary furnace]

interesting thing is, that lifeblood as a thing exists in at least 3 locations, Hallownest, Pharloom and then the place Zylotol found it

[bright silo]

zango isn't reanimated in act 2 though

[fathom hill]

Like not warning it to the other guy?

[silk dirge]

yeah

[fathom hill]

I mean she is not lying, it is unfortunate but like, again she just may not really care if these people get fucked up

[frosty gate]

We don't know that was the cause of death, we just know he had a lot of lifeblood with him

[timber pond]

I suspect if it gets on Bugs ,it also spreads that way like real plants do. So its a substance she could LITTERALLY DO NOTHING ABOUT. Because these bozos already fucking planted it.

[silk dirge]

"Your tool certainly looks sharp enough to pierce my shell, sir, but why should I want to do so?" does not sound like she knows the effects of lifeblood

[fathom hill]

Ig we only know that he got reanimated by lifeblood

Not killed by it necessarily

Though maybe he has needolin dialogue lemme check

[frosty gate]

Imagine if Lifeblood works like, pseudozombies

[muted lantern]

it seems more of something she knows what it is but has never seen it in action.

[silk dirge]

yeah but then theres that one journal entry

[muted lantern]

which one? i have not been here in a bit

[timber pond]

She probably knows of it but never knew exactly how it works. Just that its dangerous considering what her journal says.

[fathom hill]

I'm sure needolin it's not thoughts before dying like in hk

[silk dirge]

"In my home caves, when once this substance was allowed to flourish, I saw similar aberrations. This is wonder tainted strong with revulsion."

[hoary furnace]

he does not appearantly

[fathom hill]

He does but before the reanimation

[muted lantern]

hmm, then shes definitely encountered it, what is the debate about? does this line contradict other things?

[silk dirge]

it seems so

hornet in a different line acts like shes never seen it

[fathom hill]

which one

[muted lantern]

which one?

[silk dirge]

"There is an echo also of other infections I have witnessed. I wonder at the meaning of it all... or if I am perhaps imagining similarities where there are none."

this sounds like she has never seen it before

[frosty gate]

She knew that consequence, hence why she asked why would she inject herself, but then does it and understand what it does.
I believe that she knew of a part of what Lifeblood does, from the eyes of her Parents, but never knew it could be use in moderate amounts.
She never experimented with it because PK ust said "It's bad" and never tried

[timber pond]

I think she is unsure if its the same substance because this dude is calling it something diffrent and using it differently earlier in the story.

[fathom hill]

This is a weird one, in what context is this said?

Journal?

[bright silo]

yeah, for the plasmified enemies

[muted lantern]

I don't think that neccesarily says shes never seen it before, just that shes now pondering its similarities to the infection, which she hadn't before as her first encounter with it was before she saw the infection get this bad

[frosty gate]

It also makes sense she doesn't know of an infection like this because there probably was one, but PK definitely took care of it.

[silk dirge]

zylotol

[fathom hill]

Oh yeah it kind of looks like an oversight or placeholder

[frosty gate]

I hate Zyolotl so much how can you be this dumb

[fathom hill]

I could argue the consequences in hallownest were not as destructive so she doesn't make the connection but like

she also mentions directly that she has seen it before many other times

[timber pond]

Seen it but didn't understand how it works.

[silk dirge]

yeah it seems really weird to me hornet never mentions shes seen what plasmium can do to zylotol

[frosty gate]

Or they were and we just don't know, reminder that PK's arrival and what we see in HK is eras apart.
Pk could've taken care of Lifeblood at the beggining of it all

[fathom hill]

Maybe she is making a connection with the radiance infection?

[hoary furnace]

she also knows its bad, from the lifeseed journal

My unique shell can resist the darker deformations of this substance, but even I have limits...

[silk dirge]

AGAIN

[hoary furnace]

mods

[sinful nimbus]

CRYPTO COME TO ME

[hoary furnace]

feed him to roaches

[fathom hill]

<@&283547423706447872>

Oh it's gone

[fathom hill]

Crypto calling me like the green goblin mask

[silk dirge]

yeah it seems logical hornet would mention shes seen this happen before to zylotol but she doesnt

even in act 3

[timber pond]

Zylotl seems convinced that what he has found is one of a kind and that "the mainland could never produce such a marvel"

So he wouldn't belive her anyway

[silk dirge]

ok wait wtf is mainland

[bright silo]

Pharloom is an island apparently?

[timber pond]

He calls places outside of pharloom that

[fathom hill]

she does say there was a similar substance back at hallownest no?

[timber pond]

Its a mountain it seems

[fathom hill]

I mean obviously lifeblood but she does mention it to him

[silk dirge]

yeah but not that it can do this

she doesnt say in act 3 she's seen this before

even after its happened

only in her journal

[fathom hill]

Again, it's not farfetched to think that she just never bothered herself with their fate?

[hoary furnace]

an underground one but yes

[dawn sluice]

i wonder what the voidheart REALLY does in terms of "unifying the void under the bearer's will"
since sister of the void has the knight having to save hornet from the void tendrils while being in like
10 feet away distance

[fathom hill]

Like just overall uninterest

[toxic mulch]

What would warning zylotl do anyway? He doesn't seem to care in act 3

[timber pond]

Yeah that's what I said

[vestal swan]

Well he's already a dope fiend at that point

[muted lantern]

but yeah i don't really think the line of hornet comparing it to the infection implies she hasnt seen lifeblood before, it just seems like she didn't make the connection before

[timber pond]

Dude dosent belive that hornet saw a similar substance when she brings it up

Already planted seeds

[vestal swan]

I think it unified Hollownests lake, and TK had to physically take over Pharlooms

[timber pond]

Shits already fucked and hornet just wanted a new tool

[toxic mulch]

He didn't wanna listen so hornet decided it wasn't worth the effort

[bright silo]

what I want to know is why Hornet says it reminds her of "infections", plural

[timber pond]

Thats just fancy wording, it could just mean the singular just as much as it could mean anything else.

[fathom hill]

she also does admit that it's like desirable or something

[humble peak]

yeah this
One outbreak with various instances of the same kind of infection

[hoary furnace]

Yeah, when at Yarnaby's

[fathom hill]

alluring power

[timber pond]

Well, she's looking for advantages wherever she can get them according to her bonebottom diolouge before she comes to actually care about the kingdom so it makes sense.

[foggy fractal]

there's also nothing stopping tk from just choosing to slash the tendrils instead of controlling it

[humble peak]

Yeah it's odd, she has some dialogue about only doing wishes for the rewards but at other points mentions how they're rewarding in themselves

[noble mulch]

How is knight in pharloom

[humble peak]

swam

[dawn sluice]

the knight collecting 500 voidhearts is a funny sight to imagine

[hoary furnace]

wait wait i just realised an interesting paralel

to Rain World

[vestal swan]

No

[hoary furnace]

and it's void sea

[timber pond]

I personally think the tendrils are devolved "shades" from the Acient civilization bugs. and the void is just like one big Hadal Zone. The knight simply became the kraken or "lord" of it.

[vestal swan]

This isn't rainworld

[vague sapphire]

Because he is apart of the void, or rather he is the void. The void seems to be everywhere in the hollow knight verse so he can basically just appear anywhere so long as there's void

[noble mulch]

[timber pond]

Void is The Hadal Zone.

[vestal swan]

That doesn't add up because if they could teleport to it because they're connected why couldn't they control it, why did it ever act up in the first place

[humble peak]

hadal? kraken?

[vague sapphire]

He isn't omnipotent

[humble peak]

It*

[timber pond]

Bottom of the ocean in real life where there is nothing but werid deformed lifeforms

And darkness

[vague sapphire]

Sorry, i forgot vessels are genderless

[vestal swan]

If they aren't omnipotent then they couldn't teleport to the spot they couldn't see either, they wouldn't know the void was acting up in the first place

[humble peak]

I forgive you

[timber pond]

Pra tically nothing lives in the Hadal zone

[vestal swan]

TK is not connected to phaloom's void, this is pretty obvious

[hoary furnace]

it was aurafarming until it's stepsis got stuck

[vague sapphire]

I don't think you know what omnipotent means

[vestal swan]

[timber pond]

If the Void is like an Ocean. Then it makes sense as to why it isn't completely unified. Sure Aquaman is the king of the Sea, but its not under his control every second.

[humble peak]

I don't think it's obvious
A previous proposition stated it might just need to "focus" to bring local void into control, which seems plausible enough

[vague sapphire]

Exactly

[vestal swan]

That's not consistent with how TK uses the void heart

[vague sapphire]

Wdym?

[humble peak]

Do we really know so much about how TK uses the void heart?

[timber pond]

He uses it to unify the shades and nothing else really

[vague sapphire]

And to become the shade lord

[timber pond]

Like how aquaman talks to fish

[vestal swan]

TK took an entire lake at once, alternatively summoned all of their siblings

[timber pond]

How do we know he didn't just use it to call his siblings?

[vague sapphire]

A lake and an ocean are 2 different things

[vestal swan]

Now how does that translate to teleporting to an area they are not connected to, knowing what's going on in an area they're not connected to, and then getting there and having to fight it off.
The thing that doesn't require all of these things being left unanswered is TK not being connected to all of the void

[hoary furnace]

shadelord only with the focus of the godseekrs right?

[fathom hill]

Why do we think pharloom's abyss and Hallownest's abyss aren't connected?

[vague sapphire]

Yes, the knight basically needs the godseeker's focus and the voidheart to become the shade lord

[timber pond]

Like I said, Is Aquaman Connected to every fish? No but he still has the power to rule over all of them in all of the ocean.

[vague sapphire]

Think of the void as basically the hollow knight planet's crest

[timber pond]

Thats a good one

[hoary furnace]

thats the paralel with rain world i meant

[fathom hill]

I do believe it

dig deep enough and you find it

But why are we arguing if it's connected or not

[timber pond]

Idk because its a retcon or something?

[fathom hill]

The knight literally appears, it can travel through the abyss

[timber pond]

I don't agree but whayever

[fathom hill]

It's not like they went to the surface and dipped into the abyss again

They just moved through it

[vague sapphire]

Not even sure if they can even go back to the surface, I feel like the knight is just permanently void now

[fathom hill]

Probably not

[timber pond]

The point of contention is why is the abyss aggressive at all and why does the knight attack it if he controls it

[timber pond]

But that's like saying "why can a shark be aggressive to a human if aquaman controls the ocean"

[fathom hill]

We talk abt this every other day too lol

aura farming idk

[silk dirge]

the way the void heart works to me is kinda intuitive

when you arent actively moving your arm it swings around a bit

[fathom hill]

I can talk abt how the everbloom may have made the void to not recognize Hornet at first, how the knight does not have full control all the time of the void

It doesn't mean both abysses aren't connected no?

[silk dirge]

when void isnt being actively controlled it acts like that

[vague sapphire]

The void is a primordial force that predates possibly everything. It's a force of nature that acts on its own and destroys everything in its grasp, unlike other concepts the void has never had a God or higher being that could control it from anywhere

[humble peak]

I fucking love that Aquaman has become our analogue for explaining the void heart.

[humble peak]

maybe

[silk dirge]

but when tk asserts control of a body of void analogous to when you assert control to move your arm it stops acting like that

[timber pond]

Look its simple and it makes sense

[hoary furnace]

it is also very atttacted to anything with soul in it

[humble peak]

SOUP

[vague sapphire]

It's hard to be the God of something that rejects basically everything, I think that's why the knight can't control the void from basically anywhere

[timber pond]

The void is like an ocean and the ocean has alot of moving parts that are untamed

Therefore The Knight is Aquaman😂

If void tendrils are like, fish, giant squids and sharks

Giant squids actually act like void tendrils often eating thier own in packs and consuming everything they can get thier tendrils on

[vocal elm]

I have seen his thing on reddit and to me it sound like the most reasonable explanation on why TK appeared in Pharloom(post by Koslik)

[fathom hill]

squid

[fathom hill]

I do like the idea of it being a core

[vague sapphire]

Basically this

[silk dirge]

i think hk world is an infinite flat plane

[timber pond]

Dude, What if lifeblood creature is a gigantic abyss squid. Deep sea gigantiscism.

[silk dirge]

possible inspiration

[opaque pier]

Id out a very thing tube going all around thats mr mushrooms personal fly tube

[vague sapphire]

We need more lifeblood lore TC

[hoary furnace]

i also saw a theory somewhere that it's kinda like Oil, but formed from the regrets of bugs

[vocal elm]

could be one of the remnants of old world, that's why in the void as it's the deepest level

[vague sapphire]

Do y'all think the ancient civilization that worshipped the void was only in hallownest or were they spread throughout different kingdoms?

[timber pond]

We will probably get it with Pharloom Bay. Cause its implied that's where Zylotol got his shit from.

[opaque pier]

Scammer :(

[fathom hill]

maybe it will always look like that since bug

[vocal elm]

They are in Pharloom abyss

[fathom hill]

small

[silk dirge]

pharloom bay + lifeblood spire dlc 🙏

[vague sapphire]

Ohhhh ye I forgot about that

[silk dirge]

hollow knight 3 america vs shade lord

[noble mulch]

What happened to Grimmchild tho 🤔 void Grimm?

[hoary furnace]

plus the same weird plated rock like ancient basin and abyss

[vocal elm]

probably was left with the TK body outside of godseeker

[grand star]

do the bugs have bones? this is very clearly a spine

[humble peak]

The void oil regret theory is very interesting, though idk if we have quite enough evidence to support it with confidence
I do like its place as a sort of "maybe idk" thing

[vocal elm]

What the hell is goin on with bots

[silk dirge]

idk

[grand star]

<@&283468468592836608>

[hoary furnace]

They definitely do have bones

Widow has a spine

[silk dirge]

thats crazy😭

[noble mulch]

Radiance infection update

[silk dirge]

you ping mods for that not admins

[grand star]

what else do i do. admin pings less people

[vague sapphire]

We should play as the hollow knight in the 3rd game to complete the siblings trilogy

[muted lantern]

she had it installed

[vocal elm]

probably calcified exoskeletons

[humble peak]

scuttlebrace

[vocal elm]

only problem with that is They are too damn big

[silk dirge]

ping mods

[vague sapphire]

Just make every other enemy bigger, ez fix.

[humble peak]

maybe takes place before the sealing?
i don't really want a THK game though ngl

[grand star]

there aren't any insects that have spines or vertebrae

[vague sapphire]

Before the sealing, the hollow knight was just stuck in the white palace being trained, nothing much would happen

[vocal elm]

it's a part of the shell in betweeen plates

[hoary furnace]

You saw how huge pale king was while in wyrm form right? Plus there's the bug Colloseum of Fools is built into. There is plenty of evidence for huge creatures

[vocal elm]

The scale will be enormous

[vocal elm]

Hollow knight x monster hunter

[hoary furnace]

Skull tyrant's journal entry also:

Though surely fierce, the skull it bears looks taken from an even larger beast. If not for the bones as proof, I would scarcely believe bugs could grow to such scale

[vocal elm]

not saying it's bad

just difficult to imagine the gameplay

[hoary furnace]

Think Shadow of the Collosus ig

[noble mulch]

Hollow Knight: Hollow Knight

[vague sapphire]

Lol

[vocal elm]

The THK is taller than lost sinner and comparable to the size of GMS and Radiance

[vague sapphire]

Imagine the hollow knight's fast travel is just a giant dragonfly or centipede

[vocal elm]

so both you and enemies are giant

[humble peak]

The The Hollow Knight

[vocal elm]

nah the is no fast travel, they just decide to sprint instead of usual limping

[grand star]

i ended up finding a reddit post that shows that the gruz mother at least has bones (and for some reason she has them for her mouth)
https://www.reddit.com/r/HollowKnight/comments/p6ugct/bones/

[vague sapphire]

I can imagine him being twice as fast as hornet

[noble mulch]

Spend 999999 geo and 100000 rosaries to unlock charm that makes you pure vessel

[vague sapphire]

Or maybe you could just spam teleports everywhere

[noble mulch]

Can thk run

[humble peak]

holy shit dude

[unique tangle]

<@&283547423706447872>

[fathom hill]

not even link

[lone folio]

Crazy lore right here gentlemen

[silk dirge]

are we getting raided or some shit

[lone folio]

There wasn't even a link though...

[vocal elm]

Mods infect that man

[vague sapphire]

The radiance is having her revenge

[fathom hill]

throw them into the abyss

[silk dirge]

i think admins should take a look into that there has been an abnormal amount of these bots

i definitely think some sort of raid is going on but idk

[vocal elm]

mods make them into a charm

[fathom hill]

turn them into silk flies

[noble mulch]

more clankers in this chat than silksong

[grand star]

what if they're actually real and we're banning them for no reason

[lone folio]

Somethings off but i cant prove it yet...

[silk dirge]

mods sentence them to penance by constriction absolution denied

[vocal elm]

Mizu you can't say that mizu

[lone folio]

Stake the clanker to service

[vague sapphire]

Second sentinel is a damn clanker

[silk dirge]

"your not a discord bot your the entire cogwork core"

[grand star]

although trilobites do have spine-like structures

so maybe the bugs in hollow knight are descended from trilobites but also insects

[noble mulch]

Instead of crests thk will be able to buy arms

[hoary furnace]

mods sentence them to Compression, fate we would not wish upon another

[vocal elm]

DMC 5 LETS GOOOOOOO

[fathom hill]

https://tenor.com/view/hollow-knight-silksong-second-sentinel-senti-gif-643936032349097006

only clanker i respect

[vague sapphire]

He's such a cool character

[fathom hill]

love them

sadly their battle is too easy

[silk dirge]

whos better second sentinel or twelth architect

hard choice

[vague sapphire]

Tough choice

[fathom hill]

But i love their overall like presence giving of what it means to be a sentinel to hornet

[vocal elm]

One of the best bosses in the game

[fathom hill]

Such a cool add

[vague sapphire]

I love twelfth architect, I wish I could free him from his lifelong work

[sinful nimbus]

We were so close to confirming this before Big Cherry censored it by removing it from the final product

[hoary furnace]

also an interesting tidbit is that they have the same pin art/pin strike as pinstress

[noble mulch]

Hollow Knight enters silksong and steals gran mother silk arm

[timber pond]

Yo actually fire? Hollow knight actually just gets new nails and diffrent martial weapons?

[sinful nimbus]

Or well maybe not infinite but it wasn't a globe 🙏

[vague sapphire]

Maybe the hollow knight could possibly throw hands

[fathom hill]

yah, they are mentioned to have gotten inspired (plagiarized) by the pintresses style of battle

im sure hornet mentions it

[vocal elm]

They were talking about teaching the citadel warriors

[silk dirge]

act 4: THE MOON

[fathom hill]

oh yeah the big bug reeds also do it

[vocal elm]

https://tenor.com/view/south-park-its-gone-gif-4104229

[vague sapphire]

Second sentinel as well as s whole fleet of robots apparently, were taught by the pinstress and seamstress until they were both betrayed and cast out

[noble mulch]

Betrayed by the clankers

[vocal elm]

There is also the third but they are dead

[north roost]

anyone know why exactly does the citadel have a memorium and for what purpose are they preserving pharlooms wildlife/ecosystems in there?

was the verdania thing on purpose?

[noble mulch]

The silk games

[vague sapphire]

To preserve and basically make replicas of the wildlife and environment but in a closed off area. Think of it like a greenhouse

[vocal elm]

They wanted to preserve it so that there was something left. perhaps it was regret or maybe ambition

[north roost]

so basically just a zoo

[vague sapphire]

Moorwing was made in the memorium

[north roost]

then why would they breed up huge mf variants of the crawlers

[vocal elm]

Yes

[vague sapphire]

To fuck over the Pilgrims

[hoary furnace]

fluffy :3

[noble mulch]

Hornet when flea

[vocal elm]

maybe wasn't on purpose

[north roost]

maybe, but there isnt a section for greymoor in there iirc

[vocal elm]

There is

[fathom hill]

It does say that the people of the citadel weren't really good at what they were doing with the memorium

[vocal elm]

it has a scissor things corpes there

[hoary furnace]

prolly same reason we breed fucked up dogs and pidgeons, bcs we can

[fathom hill]

So maybe they just overfed them since they didn't understand how to proper like

maintain them

[vague sapphire]

Moorwing's specifies isn't exclusively found in greymoor anyway

[north roost]

i mean i would consider the wisp thicket and sinners road to be subareas of "greymoor" holistically

[vocal elm]

Citadel had corpses of actual people in the memorium room, like they were trophies

[noble mulch]

Sensimooo

[north roost]

yeah like crusty bastard of the barnacle ridden pharloom bay

[stark helm]

Question about Hornet.

[noble mulch]

Bay Pharloom butcher?

[fathom hill]

my favorite questions

[north roost]

but did they fuck up verdania on purpose both in memorium and outside or was it just one big "whoops"?

[stark helm]

If Hornet has a lot of the powers of Weavers/Spiders, does that mean Hornet also has powers of the Pale King? Can Hornet see the future? Is Hornet the Knight that is the Pale King (that one's a joke).

[vague sapphire]

We don't know what the powers of the pale king are

[noble mulch]

The hollow Shaw

[north roost]

she absorbs things and has control over soul thats a pale king typa deal

[fathom hill]

Could be, the herald does mention that Hornet may have some future sight?

[vague sapphire]

Besides buzzsaw

[stark helm]

But there were mentions of Wyrms having foresight and I'd imagine that'd apply to Pale King.

[vague sapphire]

Any weaver do that, it's not a pale king thing

[fathom hill]

Plus the may or may not situation of the "waking up" thing after every death

[noble mulch]

also what happened to the three duds after hornet got the flower
Did they die?

[north roost]

gee idonno about that

[vocal elm]

yea

[stark helm]

Yeah.

[vague sapphire]

When?

[vague sapphire]

Duds?

[hoary furnace]

Bardoon

[stark helm]

I'm not sure. I think it was Mister Mushroom or Bardoon (I forgot how to spell his name)?

[hoary furnace]

and also big shroom in Fungal wastes

[stark helm]

Ohhhh.

[north roost]

like did verdania get eradicated on purpose? i dont see no waste being put there like with bilewater. like the deal with the green mfs went through

how tf did it get lost

[stark helm]

Yeah, Pale King also has wings I think.

[fathom hill]

We aren't sure

[stark helm]

Or was depicted with a pair.

[vague sapphire]

Well even if the pale king had forsight, there aren't any implications that hornet has it anyway

[fathom hill]

It seems verdania made a pact with the citadel to evade some kind of crisis, asking for help, but that one is unclear

[stark helm]

I mean, if she can do spider/Weaver stuffs then what's stopping her from doing Pale Being stuffs?

Good riddance, I'd say.

[north roost]

if it got fucked up in and outside of the memorium, lost and forgotten or whatever the tablet said
could this mean that the citadel developed someking of herbicidal bioweapon inside of the memorium and deployed it on the real deal?

cause i dont see that thing happening on its own both in and outta there

[vague sapphire]

If she had forsight, we would've seen her used it by now. We don't know any other abilities the pale king had

[stark helm]

Well Pale King's foresight was pretty awful, maybe Hornet's is half awful.

[noble mulch]

Did the knight just dip after saving hornet or did he like take care of the situation or something

[north roost]

does the memorium require fresh samples from the ecosystems to function properly?
i dont think so it seems like self sufficient it stayed working while the citadel was inactive

[hoary furnace]

I think verdania died bcs the green princes killed the Palestag. As it is described as being one with the enviroment.

Myth made real in memory. The creature seemed completely at one with the flora around it. Did it ever truly exist as I have seen it?

[fathom hill]

I like to think she may nit have control over it and only manifests when she sleeps but yeah she does not mention it

[vague sapphire]

Just took care of the situation, he's the God of the void now remember?

[north roost]

i think the palestag was just an overgrown albino and not a real higher being

[fathom hill]

Also checked and the herald dialogue seems to say the contrary, that Hornet sees the now and the present only like him

[stark helm]

Knight went back to play Hollow Knight with Broken Vessel and... sigh... Greenpath Vessel.

I hate Greenpath Vessel.

[noble mulch]

Me too

[hoary furnace]

it did (maybe) command the flora around it, and also teleport n stuff

[vague sapphire]

Really do wonder what pale king and the other beings can do, ability wise

[fathom hill]

apparently ascend common bug

since the pk gave intelligence and gms made the weavers

[north roost]

i think the palestag in the memory verdania is a mishmash of the legends about it and a recollection of the actual encounter where it died

[fathom hill]

plus their whole control over soul thing

[noble mulch]

Makes Zote into a being that one shots the verse

[vague sapphire]

Ya, mother silk was able to do that too

[north roost]

he can already do that, zote is just a nice goodly knight so he chooses not to

[fathom hill]

Gms also just made consciousness over literally nothing so that's rad

[stark helm]

Well. I feel that's a bit iffy in the case of the Pale King. We see many bugs and creatures that existed before the Pale King's influence be intelligent. If the bugs of the Desolate Wastes were just normal bugs before coming to Hallownest, how come places like the Mantis Tribe were already intelligent?

[noble mulch]

Radiance stronger than mother silk right

[fathom hill]

I'm not saying he made all the bugs intelligent

Just the husks that we know of

[vague sapphire]

Yes

[north roost]

i think its the proximity to other higher beings

[toxic mulch]

In game? Yes,in lore? Unsure

[fathom hill]

They were said to have been feral before

[humble peak]

in the state we meet them it seems so

but GMS was a lot more weakened than Rad in our encounter

[toxic mulch]

Yes,we weren't fighting GMS at her peak

[stark helm]

I like to think Hallownest itself is the holy ground and not the Pale King making the bugs smarter. Pale King was only called a beacon that drove the bugs to Hallownest, but I could be misremembering.

[olive quartz]

broadly speaking it appears some bugs are inherently more conscious than others, namely the mantises and bees

[noble mulch]

How so

[vague sapphire]

Radiance took the whole void united under one will to be defeated, mother silk basically only took just regular void to be beat

[north roost]

the bugs in the wastes are like regularass mindless insects and they only become humanoid when in proximity of any of the kingdoms started by higher beings for a long enough time

[olive quartz]

the pale king brought sapience to 'lesser' bugs like the husks and stags and such

[humble peak]

Would Bell Beast have been fully sapient in Hallownest, I wonder?

[north roost]

yea gms aint did that, das why bellbeast dont talk

[toxic mulch]

Also from the quirrel comic it seems many bugs in the wastes have actual bug proportions including being tiny instead of looking humanoid

[fathom hill]

I mean it is implied that some that leave hallownest seem to lose their intelligence but idk if that's retconned by now

[vague sapphire]

Rad was weakened too

[vestal swan]

We don't actually have a set example of what PK raised with his intelligence beacon, pretty much all the people we can see were already smart. Ig city citizens

[fathom hill]

since Pharloom exists and many other lands with seemingly intelligent bugs

[noble mulch]

Last stag struggling not to one shot the radiance so we can have fun

[north roost]

anyways where the hell do pilgrims come from? anyone thought of that

[stark helm]

Yeah, Bretta leaves Hallownest but we never learn if she survives or turns feral so iunno.

[humble peak]

Yeah but not to the same extent
Rad was just stuck in a box, cramped
GMS just woke up from a crazy long nap and we all know how shitty you feel after that

[toxic mulch]

Most are probably just pharloom citizens

[vague sapphire]

Other lands, that's for sure

[vestal swan]

It's not really retconned it just never really had any clear examples of working in the first place

[stark helm]

Maybe drawn by a similar beacon that The Pale King had? I don't know all of Silksong lore yet.

[north roost]

like they start in bonebottom which iss uhhh how exactly do they get there? its the lowest point of the kingdom

[fathom hill]

the fabled z axis

[hoary furnace]

feral bretta sounds like like a psychological horrof

[vestal swan]

The only two cases we have are exceptions to the "rule"

[fathom hill]

We may not have seen most of pharloom, only what Hornet deems worthy of looking into

[toxic mulch]

The world isn't actually 2d,there may be caves and entrances that hornet just doesn't access

[vague sapphire]

Rad was weakened by being sealed inside the hollow knight, it's why the infection starts to break out when you beat broken vessel or kill one of the dreamers

[vestal swan]

Those are times checkpoints

[vague sapphire]

Proof?

[olive quartz]

hmm dumb idea. what if, for whatever reason, civilizations are attracted to spots where the abyss is strongest / closest to the surface / whatever

[stark helm]

I feel if you are born within the wilderness with no language or no civilization to begin with, you aren't unintelligent, you just aren't given to environment or resources to be as advanced as others. With kingdoms like Pharloom and Hallownest they would unite those bugs under a society that would let them have that, thus making them more advanced.

[north roost]

yeah so they all come from random caves that somehow all coverge on bonebottom

[vestal swan]

The fact that broken vessel has nothing to do with the infection being held back???

It's also not broken vessel that triggers it it's picking up wings

[hoary furnace]

also i find it strange, that the infection is kinda concentrated in the ancient basin, despite the proximity to void

[vague sapphire]

Why would they? If anything, you should not be anywhere near the abyss

[olive quartz]

Big door

[fathom hill]

like oil companies

[humble peak]

ik cut content isn't canon but Strung to Serve shows pilgrims coming from beyond Pharloom which I think is consistent with what we see in game.
If we look at a lot of the dialogue around Bone Bottom they talk about how Pilgrims come from beyond, how a lot die on their way to the kingdom (bonegrave), etc

[vague sapphire]

Broken vessel clearly contained some of the infection, it's literally why he's hostile to you in first place

[vestal swan]

It doesn't make sense for them to come from inside the kingdom because we don't see any Pilgrim village where they're being spawned

[olive quartz]

no specific reason but it would be an explanation for why civilization clusters together and the wastes are empty

[silk dirge]

pilgrim spawnpoint dlc when

[vestal swan]

That's not how that happened at all, broken vessel doesn't have infection in it until you get there

[north roost]

pigrimmother boss fight when?

[hoary furnace]

yes, but still why is it conenctrated somewhere where there is barely any life, instead of like, idk, the city

[olive quartz]

i think it's thematically interesting to suggest that civilization is only possible when close enough to the primordial absence

[humble peak]

it seems like the physical manifestation of the infection, the orange goop and air, seeps down into the earth
Probably a leftover from when they hadn't quite figured out the infection lol, but idk it's fair enough

[north roost]

like i get husks in hallownest are just former citizens and bugs come there from the wastes to pillage the ruin specifically entering through the well

[humble peak]

though the idea that both void and the infection originate from higher up, from radiant dreams and regrets, and seep down to settle at the bottom of the world
is quite interesting

[north roost]

its just less put together with pharloom i think

[stark helm]

Well isn't Void just another layer of the world?

[olive quartz]

perhaps the radiance was pissed at the pale king and tried to attack his palace specifically, leading to him escaping with it to the dream realm?

[humble peak]

bv is literally just a broken corpse. a bunch of lightseeds swarm in to animate it and fight you but it isn't even infected in the traditional sense. where are you getting this from?

[olive quartz]

unclear, but i mean so is the mantle, and the crust is still thicker or thinner in spots

[vague sapphire]

Actually ye you're right. But what about the fact that the each time a dreamer is killed, the background of the dream world gets brighter and brighter showing how that dawn is coming? That radiance is coming

[noble mulch]

Grimm pharloom 🤔

[vestal swan]

No clue because they aren't holding her back, they are not inside of thks head

[vague sapphire]

I admitted I was wrong on that part

[humble peak]

alr

[vague sapphire]

They're still seals tho

[north roost]

grimmchild comes to recruit trobbio to the troupe

[vestal swan]

On the temple

[stark helm]

I had thought it just another layer of the world. Both games have you go down, deep into the deepest parts their respective kingdom to find it. It's a mighty big coincidence then if Void just so happens to be deep in kingdoms.

[olive quartz]

the infection is leaking from the black egg

[fathom hill]

I do like that idea

[olive quartz]

hence infected crossroads

[humble peak]

the dreamers aren't sealing the radiance, they're sealing thk so that no one can come in kill it and let the radiance out

[vestal swan]

What does that have to do with anything?

[hoary furnace]

pk be thinking he has his whole life ahead of him but no, the sun is coming

[fathom hill]

Would explain why the cities seems to be done underground, not really on the surface

[olive quartz]

the dreamers are directly holding the infection back

hence the dream realm shows more of the radiance's influence as the dreamers are killed

[vague sapphire]

If they're only seals on the temple, why would they affect the dream world in which the radiance has dominance in?

[vestal swan]

They aren't lmao, it's leaking out right past the locked door

[olive quartz]

Yes, it literally is, that's how the crossroads get infected

[stark helm]

I like to think that progressing further Radiance gets more desperate to stop The Knight, hence the changes in the world.

[humble peak]

so how do you explain monarch wings also being a trigger?

[vestal swan]

Just time progression again, like oh hell she coming this way

[north roost]

anyways what exactly is the cradle silk realm that hornet enters everytime she aquires a silkheart or gets the needolin? is it the collective memory of gms that everyone in haunted bellheart was expieriencing?

[olive quartz]

passage of time, THK's shell cracks in the very opening cutscene and the infection is gradually leaking out

[vague sapphire]

How would you explain the dream world getting brighter and brighter as each dreamer is killed?

[north roost]

like how is that conceptually different from the dream realm

what even is goin on

[hoary furnace]

probably isn't

[humble peak]

it's cool as shit that's why it happens

represents passage of time

[vestal swan]

As we said not even 3 minutes ago it's also triggered by picking up wings.
And if it was the dreamers each one would make it worse

[olive quartz]

^^^

[north roost]

the radiances influence increases there as she gets less subdued

[stark helm]

?

The same way I suppose? Radiance getting more desperate/frustrated?

[olive quartz]

it would get worse over time, but team cherry didn't see a point in making the crossroads even more infected

[vague sapphire]

That's what I'm trying to say

[humble peak]

i don't understand what you are trying to argue

[stark helm]

I'm not saying it defintive fact. I just like to think of it.

[humble peak]

fantastic lore contribution thanks

[olive quartz]

the infected crossroads is triggered by the monarch wings due to passage of time and a dreamer kill due to the seal on the black egg weakening further

[olive quartz]

these are not contradictory. the infection is already leaking out of THK per the opening cutscene

[noble mulch]

So is dnm or etv more canon to silksong?

[humble peak]

the infection does not spread through physical means. it spreads through dreams

opening a door does not affect it

[vague sapphire]

Why would killing a dreamer effectively changing the background just be a passage of time?

[vestal swan]

All of it is passage of time

[north roost]

anyways is the radiance actually a friggin cognitohazard? i like to think that there is a weird chicken or the egg situation going on there
like the radiance isnt actually spawning and controlling the infection rather the infection itself is the higher being that creates an ideal platonic form of a god through its collective hold over subjects in the dream realm

[olive quartz]

it is very clearly radiating out from the black egg

[vestal swan]

Just to show the radiance is on her way out

[stark helm]

Then why the fuck is it doing border patrol in the Crossroads...?

[vague sapphire]

Because you are killing the dreamers that are effecting the seals

[vestal swan]

Because she's wearing down thk

All four are a passage of time checkpoint

[olive quartz]

my understanding is that the dreamer seals are specifically seals to protect the hollow knight, not the radiance itself

[stark helm]

Why can't the infection be in all places?

[north roost]

how was the radiance even put into thk in the first place?

[humble peak]

no fucking idea dude
ETV definitely has strong backing, with the VGFocus flash, but then we also see VGForm? Is it meant to represent potential? Regression? Possibility?

[vestal swan]

The physical infection manifests from resisting so it's only going to pour out of an infected body

And the big blobs are pouring out of the source

[humble peak]

that's why we see the bees doing fine

[vague sapphire]

Wouldn't that just show that her power is being suppressed? That she was being weakened?

[humble peak]

and why THK is giving off a massive amount of orange sauce
Literally no one is resisting more than it

[stark helm]

Personally, I'd be fine with being part of Radiance's control. It's warm and seems a bit cozy. Obviously you won't have your own mind or anything but hey, who does anymore?

[north roost]

every bug that bleeds orange is infected, even bugs that clearly obey her will like myla or the moss prophet get screwed

[olive quartz]

i suppose but i mean, the cutscene after each dreamer is killed shows the black egg door unlocking and the radiance cries out from behind it with a cloud of infection

[vague sapphire]

Dream nail Myra for me bro, it is NOT a pleasant experience

[vestal swan]

Yeah by being in THK, leaking out and infecting more and raising the dead is spreading influence and empowering her

[stark helm]

?

[vague sapphire]

And that looks warm and cozy to you?

[stark helm]

I mean, Myla is WEAK. I'm a tough cookie.

[humble peak]

tough? so you want to resist it, then?

[stark helm]

Yes. I have a friend inside me at all times.

[north roost]

think about it, the voids goal is to clearly absorb other higher beings into it.
if the radiance collectively manifests within the unified minds and dreams between body and soul of the infected then how tha hell would one put that inside of the hollow knight?

[vague sapphire]

Ayo?

[north roost]

try infecting it on purpose?

[stark helm]

...That's a Toy Story reference smh.

[north roost]

so its put into a mind full of void

does it make sense? i think it do idk

[humble peak]

think about it, the voids goal is to clearly absorb other higher beings into it.
?

[vague sapphire]

It's been awhile since I watched the movies lol

[humble peak]

It has no "goal"
Not as far as we know

[hoary furnace]

same way you do it in Sealed Vessel, beeg succ

[humble peak]

Just that it is driven to consume light

[vague sapphire]

The void destroys everything it touches, higher being or not, it doesn't matter. It has no goal it's a force of nature

[north roost]

it was already there though. how was it lured into the black egg in the first place

[stark helm]

But like. Yeah, having the Infection is just having a friend with you at all times. I'd even help fight the Knight. Would I win? Hell no. I'd be obliterated in a millisecond. But still.

[olive quartz]

? the radiance is not physically "in" the black egg

[lethal burrow]

i've made a connection.

Here is the old penitent dialogue:
"Chastise us... o shame!
Shame! Shame!
Punish us... cleanse us...
Holy silence... swallow our shame...
From wastes, from darkness...
Voices... pleading...
The sin... the sin!
Drawn down... blessed call...
Sisters... accord...
Silence above..."

now to me, this screams highly of the nameless town, with mentions of sisters (Weavers?) And being drawn down and also talking about the wastes...

What do you all make of this?

[north roost]

then where would it need to be focused from to get inside THKs "mind"?

yea exactly

[hoary furnace]

where is this?

[dry bridge]

I think it's likely that the huge chasm hornet falls down is a big gorge, (i.e. not a circular sinkhole centered on bonebottom) just in the direction the camera is pointing so we can never explore it. the pilgrims probably come in from somewhere along that ravine and bonebottom formed around that first gate to pharloom

[lethal burrow]

The old penitent is inside the slab

[stark helm]

Wait, are all the Weavers female?

[vague sapphire]

Yes

[olive quartz]

Yes

[lethal burrow]

I think it simply needed to become infected in someway, or perhaps it went inside the dream realm as we know the pale king is capable of going to such places, and the dreamers are capable of sending people to such places

[lethal burrow]

Every single one that we know of

[stark helm]

...Were the spiders that got turned into the Weavers male at some point?

[north roost]

two games in a row it has absorbed the crowning higher being of a kingdom, the snail shamans snare was banking on it being a godkiller. this is setting up some sort of pattern

[vestal swan]

Drawn down bit sure, seems really out of place tho considering you'd expect that town to be long dead and abandoned

[olive quartz]

HAHA

[vague sapphire]

Who knows

[vestal swan]

Nothing suggests that

[lethal burrow]

Trans spiders are cool so who knows?

[olive quartz]

also why would the people in the nameless town feel penitence to the citadel

[stark helm]

Would that mean like... Are a lot of the Weavers transfem? /hj

[vague sapphire]

The void literally has no will. Why would it have a goal to absorb higher beings when it has no will?

[olive quartz]

yes gigachad

[vestal swan]

Gaslight like everyone else

[stark helm]

This game is peak.

[hoary furnace]

thats it, gms forcefemmed the pharlids into weavers

[olive quartz]

LMFAO

[silk dirge]

transfem weavers would be very silly i support this theory

[stark helm]

Is the silk estrogen laced?

[north roost]

its "will" is to destroy anything near it, and now it has been given focus and form

[hoary furnace]

lace is estrogen laced

[silk dirge]

would you take the whiteward estrogen

[olive quartz]

beast indeed

[north roost]

and thats what its doing

[vague sapphire]

That's not a will, that's just being a force of nature. If it had a will, the knight wouldn't need the voidheart

[stark helm]

Lace is a being of estrogen...

[silk dirge]

😭

[vague sapphire]

Is there a grand father silk?

[silk dirge]

grand father song

[timber pond]

no.

[north roost]

the pale king seems to think it has no will but if that were the case then it wouldnt lash out at all and it oughta behave like a still liquid no matter what

[stark helm]

No, because then he'd turn into a mother.

[vague sapphire]

Fair enough

[olive quartz]

Himnet

[stark helm]

Shema.

[timber pond]

There would be no reason for GMS to make Lace a horrible Cloth based homunculus if there was.😂

[vague sapphire]

Maybe she hasn't found him yet........

[north roost]

making the vessels was a grave mistake he unleashed something worse than the radiance just cause he assumed that void had no capability to hold will or mind

[timber pond]

Well she will never do so because that Bitch DEAD

[north roost]

like the whole shadelord thing is gonna have grave concequences

[dry bridge]

Assuming a nameless town origin, here's my interpretation:
Old penitent (and likely their ilk) were drawn down from the nameless town as some of the first pilgrims by the weavers during the earliest days of the citadel.
They then reached some 'accord' with the weavers, leading to whatever sin the old Penitent had committed

[vestal swan]

Lace was like the third attempt at a perfect kid even if Mr silk existed lace might eventually too

[vague sapphire]

She was a shitty mother but in the end, she did a good thing

[stark helm]

Transfem Weavers are canon until we see a male Weaver.

[silk dirge]

male weavers dont exist

[hoary furnace]

i think the opposite is true? pk wanted a living being without a will or mind

[stark helm]

Exactly.

[silk dirge]

im 100% for this theory

who cares about weavers being evil

youve heard of trans rights its time for trans wrongs

[timber pond]

weavers jsut breed with other species it seems

[silk dirge]

let a trans girl be evil

[stark helm]

Does this mean Deepnest was crawling of transfems and we didn't know?

[vague sapphire]

I don't think weavers can have children with non pale beings

[north roost]

and he clearly hasnt gotten any memo from the snail shamans that in reality the void united under his children will seek to consume every pale being out there

[timber pond]

They are just women who have a hard time having children bro😭 . Probably because they NEED to Breed with other species lmao.

[stark helm]

Wait, if Herrah is trans, who had the baby?

[silk dirge]

well not all weavers are trans

[lethal burrow]

How is it out of place?

[silk dirge]

just some of them if this theory is to be realistic

[vague sapphire]

Widow was

[timber pond]

Then what the fuck is with the "Weaver in eight part" shit the Cages in the cradle say?

Implies that they can have children with other species

[silk dirge]

realistically gms probably would raise up female pharlids as well

[vague sapphire]

I never really understood what that shit meant lol.

[lethal burrow]

I would prefer some explanation instead of just "nuh uh"

[hoary furnace]

PK gave birth to himself already, he could do 234^24 more

[stark helm]

Yeah, but there would also be male ones. What if Herrah was one of the male ones?

[silk dirge]

real

[silk dirge]

who knows

[timber pond]

That means that the person who was captured is ONE EIGTH weaver. Implying they can breed in some capacity.

And their blood has been diluted

[north roost]

1/8th weaver, means its a third generation descendant

[vague sapphire]

Ahhhh I see

[stark helm]

Is Pale King transmasc and delivered Hornet?

Truly the theory of all time. /j

[olive quartz]

hornet is similarly described as... yeah, weaver in half part

[silk dirge]

yeah headcanon that as well

[vague sapphire]

Unn needs more screentime

[stark helm]

What screentime would that be?

[timber pond]

Unn is sin of sloth, that slug aint doing shit.

[vague sapphire]

Ummmmmm

[stark helm]

They'd be on her last leg if they had any.

[vague sapphire]

She got weaker by literally sitting around and doing nothing lol

[timber pond]

Exactly

[fathom hill]

ok so like feral bugs may not have genders, so maybe its more of fem socialization?

[vestal swan]

Early settler still living way after everything collapsed like 3 times?

[timber pond]

Why the hell would she start now

[stark helm]

Bugs can have gender...

[vague sapphire]

I meant like lore. What was she like before her decline, was she powerful, what typa relationships did she have with other pale beings

[fathom hill]

it depends right? since gender is mostly a societal phenomena

[lethal burrow]

they are called "old"

but to be fair green prince, is also living a weirdly long time, and we don't know when the people of the nameless town we actually drawn down also, I don't know where we've pinned that

[fathom hill]

like all weavers are afab anyways no? since gms assigned them all to be female independent of their original sex

[stark helm]

No, because in this context we're using one's sex as a concept as gender.

[vague sapphire]

Why did mother silk make them primarily female anyway, she sexist?

[timber pond]

Hornet difines her past lovers as "mates" as well. This society is not our society, its a bug society

We are applying human norms to bugs😂

[north roost]

very likely

[fathom hill]

could be

maybe thats why phantom got rejected

[vague sapphire]

Wdym?

[hoary furnace]

nonbinary discrimination reaal

[fathom hill]

they use they/them pronouns

[vague sapphire]

Lace called phantom her sister

[stark helm]

Or this could mean Hornet is bisexual. Woke Hollow Knight theory goes on.

[hoary furnace]

i thought it was other way around

[fathom hill]

Id argue we really dont know who is talking

[vague sapphire]

Tbf her daughters already tried but failed

[fathom hill]

also nb people can use gendered terms

[lethal burrow]

Applying human norms to humanoid bugs in a game made by humans

[fathom hill]

also Lace could be just homophobic

[timber pond]

To mate is to have Children as she is defining it. Unless 2 female bugs can have children, idk.

[fathom hill]

like her mum

[vague sapphire]

Fair point

[fathom hill]

Yah I think so

[north roost]

wouldnt make sense there, gms likely only made daughters because she wanted to create a being like her as her child

[timber pond]

Well Humans have a unique ability to create shit outside of their own experience, like god does and did.

[north roost]

hornet is probably the closest thing to what she was trying to make

[vague sapphire]

True, it would be weird for her to accidentally make a non binary character when she wants primarily daughters

[stark helm]

If I remember correctly, Hollow Knight was listed in a Hollow Knight category on Xbox as having trans or nonbinary characters.

[north roost]

gms should have just hit up the pale king tbh

would have saved her the hassle

[vague sapphire]

Lmao

[lethal burrow]

yeah, but also things in the game are in real life. They use English and talk and walk on two legs and have societies.

I don't think 'they can make things outside of their own lives' is a good comeback

[timber pond]

Because the vessels are dead babies who are non gendered

[vague sapphire]

He was most likely dead by the time

[stark helm]

Or they identify as non-binary. /j

[fathom hill]

Not weird since pale beings don't really understand bug minds

[north roost]

doesnt line up ngl, they were probably alive at the same time at some point

[fathom hill]

a certain pale being wanted hollow and he didn't get it cause he didn't understand bug minds

[stark helm]

"That's not very Hollow of you to have pronouns, my child." -Pale King.

[vague sapphire]

True but, territories remember?

[timber pond]

i dont think they can really "identify" themselves very well outside of a few exceptions who try 😭 (sad!).

[fathom hill]

Some other wanted a perfect daughter only for her to rebel against her cause thats not how bug minds work

[lethal burrow]

The opposite of being woke IS being empty in the head

[vague sapphire]

She was a shitty parent tbf

[fathom hill]

she was

but also she did say better a child spun mad than none so

like she was deliberate

[silk dirge]

gms the type of parent to pressure their child from like age 5 to get into an ivy league

[stark helm]

They climbed up the Abyss and when they got to the top, Pale King asked them "what are your pronouns?"
"They/th-"
pushes off

[lethal burrow]

I doubt she wanted a crazy child on purpose, but I doubt she could manage anything more

[timber pond]

But The general idea is thinking about how a bug society works over a human one as a goal IMO. Thereofre fundementals CAn be diffrent while having SOME smiliarites so we can understand it.

[vague sapphire]

I believe gms was unironically lonely than anything, since her only daughters had betrayed her, she was desperate to not be alone anymore so thus she made lace and phantom

[fathom hill]

I'm saying that she knew that Lace was growing mad

Maybe she didn't know she was resentful towards her existence though

[fathom hill]

Oh yeah could be

[north roost]

i tell ya she couldave just hit up the pale king through the dream realm or whateva

yaknow what i mean

[lethal burrow]

I don't think she knows the dream realm exists

[fathom hill]

But also pale beings already are kind of these greedy mfs so

Maybe she did love her children but that didn't stop her neglecting Lace and abandoning phantom

[north roost]

i think she just didnt get the memo for it, she kinda sucks real bad at her job as a higher being ngl

[fathom hill]

The weavers may have been a special case, since they were bastards too but like

[lethal burrow]

I actually think the thing that made her neglect and abandoned was maybe her being stuck in a ball

[fathom hill]

terrible it is to be lied about your existence

[lethal burrow]

OK, actually Phantom was probably disowned for siding with the citadel that's keeping her stuck in a ball

[vague sapphire]

She has her own twisted sort of narcissist version of love

[north roost]

like unn? dreamed up all the plants and mosskin
radiance? made of essence basically has dominion over the place
nightmare heart? yea
pale king? owns land in there

[fathom hill]

We really don't know this though

Do we? we don't know why phantom was abandoned

[lethal burrow]

on the subject of phantom and their abandonment: the journal says that Phantom was tasked with the exhaust organ, but this poses the question.... by who? Certainly not grandmother silk who is presumed to be asleep, and even if conscious would surely not like the citadel or care for its structure enough to assign a daughter to the exhaust. no it seems it could only be the Weavers or the conductors, and from there, the reason for phantoms abandonment seems only clear, in one way or another, knowingly or not, she sided with the citadel as opposed to her mother, sided with the very people keeping grandmother silk caged, and for that reason, I can very much see grandmother silk 'abandoning' phantom (in whatever capacity she's able given her circumstances anyways.)

[vague sapphire]

She may be a Terrible mother but she really did love her kid(s), just probably didn't know how to express that love properly

[lethal burrow]

it's not a certainty, but I think it's close enough that I am confident in my idea

[fathom hill]

It could be something to do with the citadel or something else entirely

[north roost]

maybe phantom was a crude way of recreating hornet, like what if gms somehow found out about her and got jealous?

[fathom hill]

Again, pale beings don't seem to understand bug minds, it may be that one difference

Like some lovecraftian kind of understanding

Maybe pale beings do only think in absolutes and believe that a being 100% perfect, hollow or anything it's possible

[lethal burrow]

We don't even know what to higher being is so I don't think we can attribute any traits to them

[north roost]

like canonically why is phantom so similar to hornet in just about every way? including the fighting style?

[fathom hill]

We know that they are greedy and ambitious and want to be worshipped if anything

Also we talk with the white lady though she is the more grounded of them me think

[north roost]

and why do bugs still commonly use nails and pins to fight when they have the technology to create rosary canons and silk railguns among hand grenades?

[lethal burrow]

The gun is a Weaver thing

[fathom hill]

Ok so pins are more of a ceremonial aspect i think?

same with the bells

[north roost]

same is probably with nails

[charred nimbus]

nah, they use pins to fight most of the time

[lethal burrow]

also the rosary cannon is pretty much only strong because it's repeated blunt force trauma

[fathom hill]

Don't think so

[lethal burrow]

It's not very practical

[fathom hill]

do we see anyone else using nails apart from hornet?

[lethal burrow]

Hornet doesn't use a nail though

[fathom hill]

Oh no wait

[north roost]

she uses a needle

[charred nimbus]

Hornet doesn't use nail tho

[fathom hill]

Yah true true i got confused

[charred nimbus]

Also, pins can't be cerimonial where most intelligent bugs are using it in real combat all the time

[north roost]

i have this weird theory that nails and needles were actually originally made as idols and not necessarily weapons

look at the lower halves of the radiance and gms

one is a nail the others is straight up a pin

[fathom hill]

we have rosaries whips

are rosaries meant to be weapons

[charred nimbus]

only one guy from the game use a rosary whip and they are clearly crazy

[north roost]

tf are red rosaries even made of, coral?

[fathom hill]

Allat for like 50 rosaries

It is curious

dying is a sin in pharloom

Ain't that fun

[hoary furnace]

hmm coral i the one thing i didn't think of. It would make sense, if only there was citadel infrastrictire in sands of karak

there are also carts full of something in blasted steps

[north roost]

i mean in many languages beads are reffered to as "corals"

same with their coloration

[hoary furnace]

yeah, makes sense

[north roost]

that could be the train of thought tc used when including the coral area in the first place

[hoary furnace]

cant have shit in Karak

I also saw a theory floating around, that the water in the sands of karak before it was sands comes from the snow and ice on mount fay

[fathom hill]

did the water really dry cuz Khann died

[charred nimbus]

Khann wasn't dead tho

[fathom hill]

like how verdania died cause they had no rulers

or how hunters march may die/shift after karmelita

[hoary furnace]

i think the Citadel took the water to make thier showers and waterfalls in high halls

[charred nimbus]

Damn, i had a good shower in citadel spa

Thank you Karak

[hoary furnace]

plus as a bonus, free genocide of a rival nation

[north roost]

honestly the pre citadel pharloom would have been way more interesting to explore

[fathom hill]

so the citadel just sucked up all that water

do we see pipes in karak of the sort?

[charred nimbus]

just wait for 13 of december to explore pre citadel Pharloom

[hoary furnace]

they didn't suck it from karak, they redirected the flow from mount fay

thats what the long bridge things on the side of the citatel are then probably for, big aquaducts

[north roost]

the final game kinda feels like a bad future sonic cd level outcome everywhere

[fathom hill]

Ahh right could be

[hoary furnace]

The big shift in development happened around 2021. We can see a lot of the more lively areas in the ACME exhibition

[lethal burrow]

sands of karak

[hoary furnace]

yeah right! also the elevator there too

although it would be a more concrete theory if we saw some mining tools or smthn like that there

[silk dirge]

i really hope we get a version of pharlooms map like that one hallownest map poster

it would help us a lot with geography

like i dont think we ever see the full structure of the citadel

a map like that would help a lot with it

[edgy nebula]

you cant hide karak discussion from me

my theory is karak fell before the citadel, the main points to this are khann mentioning pale light in his needolin dialogue and pilgrims passing through blasted steps implying khann’s forces werent present there

[finite cave]

quick question binding and focusing are lije completely different right

i've always thought so personally

[edgy nebula]

the only real explanation for coral mixing with citadel infrastructure i can find is that coral kept spreading after khann’s death (or maybe cause he was still alive, if you follow that theory)

[edgy nebula]

yes i think

binding is extremely versatile, moreso than focusing i believe

[silk dirge]

nah i dont believe that

they are equivalent actions since both relate to soul

[hoary furnace]

hmm... makes sense. That's when gms first arrived. And Karak dried only way later after Conductors took over and made the citadel into thel luxurious palace it is now

[edgy nebula]

thing is khann died on his throne, presumably from being without water

[silk dirge]

we see tk do the exact same shit hornet does when we absorb dreamers and thk

[edgy nebula]

nothing states it explicitly but it is very implied

[silk dirge]

this is a reference to how you will die from dehydration if you dont drink enough water

[edgy nebula]

true, i didnt think of that

[silk dirge]

go take a water break right now

[edgy nebula]

khann didnt drink his bottles of water every day

[edgy nebula]

damnit
ok

[vestal swan]

I'm assuming they were like the first to be brainwashed, would be really weird if people were coming from the top down in the middle of all the lies and bullshit that was happening, that's like skipping the line idk

[finite cave]

watcher on the edge went to grab him a drink but then died

[vestal swan]

Lace wasn't resting in a tube in that scene

Oh I forgot that was 30 minutes ago

[hoary furnace]

i thought it was a mirror or smthn

[vestal swan]

That's a preservation tube similar to what Eva is in

For whatever reason phantom was resting in it and lace was talking to her

[edgy nebula]

phantom so old they tried to preserve her in the unc tube

[finite cave]

shit got so bad they gave up and sent her to permanent garbage duty

[hoary furnace]

yeah, but this part of the lore is kinda hazy to me with who exactly sent them to work there

[finite cave]

i would want to die in an awesome duel if i was on garbage duty forever too

[hoary furnace]

as discussed earlier

anyway imma go to sleep because it's 2am for me

[vestal swan]

They don't use English, most* use two legs and despite similar words things aren't the same, nails needles etc

Waiting for a worthy fighter and also drugging and gaslighting the fuck out of them

[edgy nebula]

were wraiths ever explained

they look alot like phantom, what are they

[finite cave]

theyre phantoms sadness or some shit

[vestal swan]

Phantom projection spell, someone brought up how lace can do it too

[finite cave]

she plays sad songs and has cool projecrions

[finite cave]

wait lace can WHAT

[vestal swan]

In the abyss

She projects a talking phantom

[wet shadow]

Is the mist of the mist just more exhaust from the exhaust organ or some kind of spell?

[vestal swan]

Exhaust that might have a spell cast on it

[wet shadow]

How would phantom be able to cast a spell on it

[vestal swan]

Music

[charred nimbus]

Proceeds to aura farm even while dying.

[finite cave]

ohh

[wet shadow]

Phantom must be pharloom's best organist by this point

[charred nimbus]

Maybe silk too right?

[charred nimbus]

Also, you have alot of contest for that title, for some reason Second sentinel has a huge fanbase that i was unfamiliar with

[finite cave]

the lion does not care about puppies

[north roost]

what sort of insect is the faywing? fayhorn

whateva

[edgy nebula]

a super cool one (we have no clue)

[north roost]

thing looks like a beakless bird

[edgy nebula]

maybe some type of fluffy aphid

[charred nimbus]

i mean, the craws also look like crow people but they are also insects

[edgy nebula]

but it is indeed a bug

[charred nimbus]

Team cherry used alot of things for ideas

And by things i don't mean references

[marsh wagon]

what caused the weavers to die out

[vestal swan]

Being hunted down, locked up etc. they aren't necessarily extinct just hiding

Actually that kind of brings up a good point, weavers can come out of hiding now

There's a good reason we might see more later

[versed tiger]

Did anyone notice that the green beast in green path looks exactly like the bell beast

[foggy fractal]

would they be fine to come out in the events of the game though ? specifically act 3 ? I doubt TC will make dlcs that take place after sotv

[foggy fractal]

not really they have a lot of differences

[versed tiger]

I could be a distant relative of some kind? Maybe not all beasts are bell beasts

It*

[vestal swan]

I hope they do continue the game after act 3 it'd be really lame if they gave us another non-continuation ending

[robust wagon]

It's called a fayforn

[silk dirge]

the problem is it completely breaks if you havent gotten 100% everything beforehand

[foggy fractal]

maybe, who knows what they're planning lmao, they also commented on how dlcs will be ambitious

[silk dirge]

bc the haunting is now gone 95% of enemies dont exist anymore

but if they figure out a way around that

then i want to see a continuation

[vestal swan]

Suffer? Also new content = more %

[sinful nimbus]

"another" don't hate on DNM 🥀

[silk dirge]

i mean still if theres a dlc ending you would get locked out of the full %

like you wouldnt be able to do the equivalent of 112%

[sinful nimbus]

Mister Mushroom says Hornet's actions could call him in the future which gives some plausibility to Act 4

[vestal swan]

I'm saying you can get to 100 by doing the DLC

[silk dirge]

oh like they add replacement stuff

itll be an interesting challenge for them if they do that but who knows

[sinful nimbus]

Act 4 is unlocked as a separate campaign or something

[silk dirge]

alternate act 3 or some shit

[sinful nimbus]

That's what I'm saying

You get to it by binding GMS with the steel crest which compresses her

[silk dirge]

has any game done that before where theres entire alternate sections of the game

i guess cyoa games

[silk dirge]

100 ton hydraulic press vs higher being

[vestal swan]

Grimmnephew shows up: damn aunty hornet you did a number on this place

[regal crow]

The grass doll, is it supposed to be Gurr?

Or look like him I mean