sk-lore

[raven condor]

Grimm seems different to Brumm. Brumm is a bug, Grimm is a construct. This is snared more than most. The heart doesn’t seem to be as good at mind control as the radiance. In fact I think the radiance is perhaps the best at it. Aside from potentially the steel masters

[gloomy heart]

Yeah, it probably would work like in the colosseum imo

[random aspen]

but radiance can probably land a good hit on nmh and it'll explode cus that dude does not look durable

[crystal iris]

Well, I guess it absorbs everything it finds. But since pale light rejects the void, and it’s from a distant kingdom, I mm going to guess that pale light repulses void, while higher being light is absorbed by it.

Also I guess lifeblood isn’t considered life by the void/doesn’t have soul

[random aspen]

why doesnt nmh just make 500 grimms and send them on all corners of the world to achieve immortality

is he stupid

[crystal iris]

Since void goes after everything with soul

[raven condor]

Doesn’t help that it’s almost entirely stationary aside from teleporting itself away. But so too can the radiance teleport

[gloomy heart]

Idek if you can call NMH a dude as much as it is just kinda a thing

Like how sentient is the NMH on its own

It clearly can create sapient beings like grimm and possess others for its bidding

[random aspen]

probably its only urge is to live

keep the fire alive

[gloomy heart]

But like i feel like that could just be it going off instinct

[crystal iris]

To be fair Grimm needs a lot of sustenance from the fire

[brittle cedar]

doesn't it need to absorb the nebulous red dream orb thingies of dying kingdoms to sustain itself

[gloomy heart]

True

It also lines up with that just kinda being the nature of higher beings

[random aspen]

yeah im joking nmh def isnt strong enough to do allat

[crystal iris]

So we all agree radiance is the strongest?

[random aspen]

radiance is such a bitch if you think about it

[gloomy heart]

NMH is close but i think so

[crystal iris]

Ngl I feel like Unn would’ve been a SIGHT TO SEE in its prime

[random aspen]

nooooo please dont forget me nooooo i know this pale guy is better but please!

then threw a massive tamper tantrum

[brittle cedar]

and solo'd all of Hallownest

don't mess with the sun, kids

[gloomy heart]

tbf while it absolutely wasnt the PK’s fault and it def went overboard idk if higher beings lose strength as they get less and less remembered

i could see it being a case of her litterally starting to die from lack of attention and therefore reacting out of survival instinct

[random aspen]

for someone like her that lives in dreams she definitely loses power if people forget

and i think nmh is the same too

[gloomy heart]

hence why she’s so desperate sounding when you dream nail her during her fight

[crystal iris]

Ngl a headcannon that I have is that when a god dies that thing becomes uncontrollable, inaccessible or weaker

[random aspen]

every other higher being with a physical form are chilling

[raven condor]

The pale king using his foresight to anger the radiance so he has an excuse to bang herra…

[gloomy heart]

now this is the lore revelations we need

[random aspen]

herrah probably hot asf to the bugs

[brittle cedar]

hot single spider queen in your area

[random aspen]

probaly made a few weavers lesbian if not all of them

[gloomy heart]

Radiance v pale king just a case of unfortunate circumstances lmao

[raven condor]

Real. The pale king actually set everything up to fail so that his daughter may one day be saved by his discarded vessel

[brittle cedar]

insane foresight

[gloomy heart]

i mean apparently hornet is considered attractive in universe so this is possible

[gloomy heart]

the epitomy of “task failed successfully”

[brittle cedar]

she is considered attractive out of universe too (:

[crystal iris]

Ayo

?

I wonder if Nyleth would’ve been considered hot

[gloomy heart]

maybe i’m in the wrong spot but i dont be getting how people find hk characters hot they’re legit insects

[crystal iris]

Fr

[gloomy heart]

i regret bringing this up LMAO

[crystal iris]

The only one I’d see is Nyleth or Carmelita, they look mostly humanoid?

[gloomy heart]

bro nyleth is a FLOWER tho

[crystal iris]

Smash(Aka squish, they’re bugs I hate bugs)

[crystal iris]

Exactly

[brittle cedar]

reminder that Flukemarm is peak bug beauty (real lore in the lore channel)

[left fog]

Is it true that taking the hearts of the Old ruler's kills the environment that they ruled?

[gloomy heart]

“Alluring god of motherhood”

[crystal iris]

No, seems like it regrows it

[gloomy heart]

In the case of karmelita yea but that doesnt seem to be a hard rule

Killing green prince causes the opposite to start happening lol

[brittle cedar]

seems to be the case given what happened to Verdania

[crystal iris]

Once their old rulers die new ones come

[left fog]

Doesn't seems like the waterfall started flowing in karak

[crystal iris]

Also the princes were LITERALLY cursed

[brittle cedar]

or hits some sort of reset switch

[gloomy heart]

For Khann i dont think anything really changes same with Nyleth

The former has been in like endless stasis and the latter has been functioning without nyleth anyways

[crystal iris]

Idk man, the water turned to snow on mount fay and that’s why it dried up, you can’t unfeeeze a mountain

[gloomy heart]

I thought the “snow” was down from the big ass bird thing at the top

[left fog]

[raven condor]

It’s actually the opposite. Frozen water was supposed to drip down into Karak and cause water

The maps used to be connected before it was cut

[brittle cedar]

now how is frozen water gonna drip

[raven condor]

Melting.

[gloomy heart]

Imagine karak but with muckwater instead

[crystal iris]

How’s it gonna melt

[crystal iris]

FUCK NO

[raven condor]

Heat

[left fog]

How does Verdania work exactly i heard people say that environment had power or something

[brittle cedar]

I the idea of Bilewater drained and dead

[gloomy heart]

Muck king ghrann

[crystal iris]

Then why does it make you cold

[crystal iris]

😔

[gloomy heart]

idk it’s windy as fuck lol

[left fog]

Mucky Beastfly when

[gloomy heart]

So is blasted steps tho

[random aspen]

fayforn dandruff 🤩

[crystal iris]

Tru, and it’s not cold

If it really was feathers, how come you still get cold when sliding down the side

[left fog]

What ever happened in Sinner's road, stays in Sinner's road

[brittle cedar]

a wizard did it (the magical bird thing).

[random aspen]

wdym

[gloomy heart]

Ig but considering how HK and silksong have always tended to have in universe alt explanations for their “precipitation” i feel like that probably would apply here

[left fog]

[random aspen]

oh i thought you were asking a quesiton

[left fog]

Also why is Verdania regrowing after the prince death

[left fog]

I did ask one earlier but didn't get a answer

[crystal iris]

It’s on the surface, everything before was underground

[random aspen]

false sense of hope

[gloomy heart]

like how kingdom’s edge is raining ash bc of the wyrm corpse or city of tears is raining bc the blue lake above it

[crystal iris]

Which is why there was substitutes

[crystal iris]

Yeah that’s fire, and greymoor having dregs of silk instead of rain

[left fog]

What about this one

[gloomy heart]

Ig that makes sense it does kinda look like it “snows” in the wastes beyond

[left fog]

What does that mean

[random aspen]

its pretty meaningless its just a cool detial ig

i doubt they'll build anything on that in any dlc

[crystal iris]

Also how does the wind work? Aren’t the god of wind and rain dead or smt

[left fog]

What if Act 4 dlc is the rebuilding

[brittle cedar]

it does seem like all the mortal ruler bugs have/had dominion over their environment

[gloomy heart]

Probably just the same way it works irl

Pressure differences n shit

[crystal iris]

Tru

[random aspen]

some craws gona rebuild it or something

its dead forever

[left fog]

Maybe a sign of having a small form of divinity?

[crystal iris]

Ngl we need to know what happens when a god dies
Does the stuff they were reigning/creating just disappear

[gloomy heart]

I mean there was the big ass mushroom in fungal wastes but like

Idk if he counts

[random aspen]

i wish the games did epilogues man

[crystal iris]

Ain’t no way he counts

[gloomy heart]

tbf you could kinda count act 3 as an epilogue

[left fog]

Maybe the next game we might see a living kingdom

[crystal iris]

Mr mushroom is obviously the most powerful higher being

[left fog]

And play as the Pure vessel

3 mask of dmg

[random aspen]

all the bugs are still possessed by silk

[crystal iris]

Void threaded silk

[gloomy heart]

Yeah but it does technically happen after an ending lol

[random aspen]

this time theres some void spirnkled on there

[crystal iris]

Alr well I need to go to sleep

Cya’ll

[left fog]

Garmond....

[gloomy heart]

Cya

[left fog]

Cya

[brittle cedar]

gn

[vivid kernel]

whats the lore behind sinners road

[brittle cedar]

I heard it's called that cuz it's a forbidden entrance to the citadel

[slim tree]

pilgrims dont wanna risk their life like idiots so they find a secret path thru to the citadel

[vivid kernel]

isnt the way to citadel from here blocked by the mist tho

[craggy smelt]

I'm glad that dustroaches become muckroaches (and dustmites)

[humble peak]

thinking on this line... does this suggest that, had Lace not interfered, GMS would have been able to take Hornet's strength for her own and escape the consumption of the void?

[viscid cave]

I think the knight is actually apart of the void

[regal crow]

What’s haunted mean in this game

[north karma]

Silk

[regal crow]

More detail?

[north karma]

No

[regal crow]

Is it like the infection?

[mint stratus]

Both due to the control of a higher being, but less infectious and more puppeteering of beings on a massive scale as far as I can tell

[formal valley]

Infection makes bugs into mindless primal animals, haunting makes bugs do the same thing eternally before hauntjng

[mint stratus]

Likely connects their mind to gms if Pavo’s dialogue is anything to go off of

[humble peak]

yeah it does seem like a distinct entity

[lethal burrow]

apart *from

[stuck berry]

how many people in pharloom are unambiguously evil

gms is the most obvious but with people like lace and the slabflies there's some wiggle room

[lethal burrow]

Evil is subjective and a moral question so I don't know if you can answer that

[stuck berry]

oh no i can't

which is why i'm asking you

[lethal burrow]

The Weavers seem pretty evil

I think I'm a Weaver hater

[stuck berry]

they kind of are yeah

i think the slabflies and the stilkin are in a moral gray area because the flies are just doing what the citadel order them to do to survive and hopefully escape but capture without real legal basis is pretty bad

same with the stilkin they're defending what's left of their homeland but you can't deny they do kill with extreme prejudice

i like that one of the crimes listed on the villains wiki for the weavers is child neglect

[next solar]

A theory on where Light comes from

Both hallownest and Pharloom are in caverns and in both Games, the surface isn’t shown having a sun or stars or moon.

So where does all the light in the many zones come from? I think Light itself is Holy. It’s not a coincidence that GMS, the Pale king and radiance all produce light.

I think all higher beings produce light based on how powerful they are. The more light they produce the more powerful.

And I think bioluminescence is a sign of higher being interference. Things like the glowing jellyfish in Fog canyon or the lamps with the Silk butterflies in both games everywhere. Any and all sources of light are higher being adjacent and related

Dream particles in the first game as well naturally glow because dreams are energy and are connected to higher beings. Soul glows. Silk glows. Everything that’s considered magical or magic adjacent produces light.

And of course the magma and glowing rocks in deep docks and farfields also produce light and I think that introduces the idea that the earth itself is a higher being. Remember that higher beings don’t need a direct physical form or consciousness to be that. Like the void itself. It’s an “anti-higher being” that consumes every source of light from the Earth to Dreams to soul to silk. So the Earth producing light through magma is like the void. Just a flowing source of divine power.

I think all light in Hollow knight verse is vaguely divine and seemingly “sunny” places like farfields are just like holy sites of sorts where the glow of the Magma is somehow illuminating the entire area

[lethal burrow]

cool idea

[robust wagon]

I mean yeah, Lace was the one who cut off GMS' arm

[craggy smelt]

It is kinda funny to me that wherever Hornet goes, there happens to be enough light to see, even if there's just like ambient glow in the air

very convenient - no lantern necessary

[humble peak]

I don't see what that has to do with it

[robust wagon]

If her arm weren't cut off, hornet wouldn't have been able to get away

[humble peak]

I mean I know that, it's not what I was asking about though.

[robust wagon]

Then what are you asking about?

[stark halo]

It's reasonably likely that even in the normal Weaver Queen ending Hornet does not have full control, so yeah, quite possible that Silk wanted Hornet to bind her or vice versa

Especially with deleted ending context

[timber pond]

You see, she got dat pale king energy. "Well so do the vessels!" You might add. But uh.... shade cancels it out!😂

[craggy smelt]

I think it's the narrative principle at work of 'hero in a dark cave'

Mysterious caves and tunnels always have luminous fungi, strangely bright crystals or at a pinch merely an eldritch glow in the air, just in case a hero comes in and needs to see in the dark. Strange but true.

[fervent sigil]

is the removed/scrapped ending (where gms fuses with hornet) canon?

[craggy smelt]

nah

cut content is non-canon

[lone folio]

Sad since the pharloom bay lore tablet tells us about how higher beings are born and that hornet is actually 2.576% void

[hidden crater]

https://youtu.be/iOl-dH5tDYE?si=u8joSZaKrppBgC1Y this shit would have been brutal if it was still ingame

[grim marten]

i wish we couldve done this, i hate that boss and his stupid gauntlet

[stark halo]

iirc knight has a veeeeery dim glow before lumafly lantern around them so I think this is actually just correct lol

[quaint thicket]

Any peak yt video recommendations for a complete Silksong lore

?

[timber pond]

We wait For Mossbag💀

Or ccmaci

[stray fog]

Whats the deal with all the chapels in silksong

Who were they worshipping there

[stark halo]

Someone did one but not sure I'd recommend it yet. I think the biggest problem at the moment is trying to pin down a concrete timeline

[stark halo]

I believe Chapels are collections of Memory and mostly are dedications to a specific ideal more than a specific person - we don't actually get any information about the people we bind there, and the Needolin dialogue in each chapel suggests more that for whatever reason their bodies were able to hang on to all the memories associated with that particular Crest

I had a post detailing all the Needolin dialogue: https://www.reddit.com/r/Silksong/comments/1obhpe2/what_are_crests_all_crest_dialogue_discussion/

Not really sure why they would have built the Chapels, though, unless the Weavers were aware of the power of memory and explicitly directed them to be built

[stray fog]

I never noticed the repeated mentions of memories before

That's definitely intentional

Also, all the needolin dialogues use "our" and "they", so maybe a crest represents a certain community of bugs who had that specific way of life

[stark halo]

Yeah, "remember" for every single crest except Witch feels significant. "Forgotten" also feels significant, because we now have two examples of something being forgotten causing it to be twisted (witch crest + potentially radiance, depending on interpretation)

[stray fog]

I was thinking just that

That the parasite was a forgotten god

[hidden crater]

Aint there a hidden room with architect corpses in the architect chapel

[stark halo]

Forgotten gods seem to claw their way back in very indirect ways (Radiance via dreams, Witch via... idk, parasite root infection but also a weird pollip ritual - Wood Wasps fly around the purple flowers and have Needolin dialogue about finding the scent and drinking the sap)

[stark halo]

Yeah, I didn't include it since it seemed more like it was about the architects than about the crest

[stark halo]

So if we're thinking about forgotten gods pushing back, it might be that this one manifested mostly as Greyroot + influencing the Wood Wasps to propagate what was needed for the rite of the pollip

[regal crow]

Gods, I’d guess

[untold glen]

[kind steeple]

What's the lore behind* the weavenest names?

[craggy smelt]

presumably named after various Weavers - some effiges share their name
(I think just Atla?)

[quaint thicket]

I’m asking for something that’s already released

[stark halo]

Yes, we know Atla was a Weaver, so we can kind of assume the other Weavenests are likely also named after different Weavers

[heavy gyro]

are the weaverlings similar to lace and phantom

[craggy smelt]

Lorebarians put one out, they're alright
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAptTWpczyY

[craggy smelt]

yes, Hornet refers to them when mentioning how Lace is a creature spun from living silk

[heavy gyro]

could silk creatures theoretically get infected

[craggy smelt]

I don't see why not

[untold glen]

maybe

[slim tree]

people love to call the pale king an idiot but holy hell he was able to make void non aggressive

thats like such an insane feat nobody gives him lmfao

[craggy smelt]

that reminds me

Godseeker:

O wielder of nail, o eater of Soul. Are thee a messenger of the Gods... or something stranger?

wonder if TK actually was eating all that Soul, being Void and all...

[naive bane]

Yeah but...mossbag

[craggy smelt]

mossbag hates hollow knight lore now, he'll never do a video

[fossil ledge]

Hornet herself calls him a fool for wanting to control the void, but he succeeded at it. Yes, he never achieved the level of control the Knight accomplished, but he didn't know of the Void Heart's existence either

[fossil ledge]

We know it at least keeps some of it inside its shell to use to heal itself and cast spells from what it consumes

[craggy smelt]

iirc, when you load up a game, TK starts with no Soul

they must've been eating it~!

[fossil ledge]

Real xD

[fossil ledge]

I must admit I don't remember, but I wouldn't be surprised

I will say though, I do believe the Godseekers are referring to the fact the Knight absorbs soul from its surroundings, especially that taken from other bugs in combat

[craggy smelt]

probably, yeah

Void mimicks the Soul is consumes directly, TK isn't taking on any kind of other forms like that

their own spells are another matter

[fossil ledge]

The Knight is also bound by its own shell

[frank dove]

Bruh where is mossbag

[craggy smelt]

.

[shell oracle]

So In the giant conchfly hunters journal it said hornets had mates but isn't confirmed who one was but I know one who might be

Hive knight:
Why?
So first of all we know hornet likes warriors and stuff and hive knight is litterally a knight of the hive
She also likes fluffy stuff so she would probably like a mate with fluffy fur that she can cuddle with and yes hive knight has fluffy furd
Hornet likes hygienic things and hive knight looks pretty hygienic

[untold obsidian]

"I once sought similar union, but of my own mates none could match my lifespan" Hive knight is still alive

[shell oracle]

Oh

Yeah I totally forgot about that

Also didn't she leave the hive

So she might of needed to cut relations with hive knight

[craggy smelt]

cute idea

but hive knight probably only had time for the Queen

[viscid cave]

Hear me out
I think the reason why the "plasmium" infection in the wormways suddenly spreads 100x faster is because of the presence of the void being near

But with the void's abscence, they spread way slower

[sacred heath]

“hear me out” posts take requiring the most basic reasoning skills of all time

[lean temple]

Zylotol injecting the entire area with the stuff seems like a more prominent factor. I'm not disregarding a possible role by the Void, but Zylotol's actions alone would be enough of a cause.

[craggy smelt]

if the presence of Void caused it to spread faster, then the Lifeblood presence in Hallownest's Abyss ought to be way more widespread
instead it's confined to a chamber that may not even be in the actual physical world

[lean temple]

Good point

[craggy smelt]

it may spread less compared to Hallownest both due to certain folk knowing it's sketchy, and the fact that it's a dead kingdom where most lifeforms are already overtaken with some kind of horrible distorting physical infection

and also yeah, what Blue said, Zy and Zango were deliberately seeding and spreading it and injecting the local beasts

like idiots

[stark halo]

In fairness to this point, it possibly not being in the physical world could be the only reason it didn't spread more

[hard widget]

It could also have been intentionally sealed off by another party

[lean temple]

Plus how would it even spread much in the Abyss/Basin anyway. Shadow Creepers don't eat

Siblings can't be lifebloodified, and the other lifeforms are either pure infection (seeds, balloons) or already infected (mawlurks, also stationary)

[stark halo]

We don't have a ton of information about lifeblood still despite the Silksong reveal, but personally I feel like we're probably missing one more factor to be able to determine what's up with it

[lean temple]

It seems it has to enter your body in one way or another, which as I have described is very difficult in Basin/Abyss

[placid meadow]

I have a theory about Phantom

I just thought about it but now it make sense, the reason why she was placed exactly in thr Exhaust Organ wasn't just a coincidence, it was a way for Grand Mother Silk to block one of the entrance that lid to the Citadel

The grand gate which is the supposed good path to take lead directly to a trap and force the pilgrim to work tirelessly after they arrived

While on the other hand, the path thought the fog lead directly to under the orchestra, so it's possible that Noble used to go through the Sinner Roads to get inside of the Citadel and that it was a secret that only them knew

[stark halo]

Plausible!

[lean temple]

It is called "Sinners' Road" so likely those who knew they wouldn't be let in through Grand Gate snuck in from there, so GMS blocked it off with Phantom

Well either GMS or the Citadel idk really

[stark halo]

Crack theory time: Forgotten gods are twisted in the process of being forgotten, and they act on instinct to try to worm their way back into the world. The Radiance did this by infecting the dreams of the bugs of Hallownest. The god associated with the Twisted Bud did this by affecting Shellwood's ecosystem, influencing Wood Wasps to perpetuate the Pollip flowers needed to perform the Rite of the Pollip. Lifeblood originates from another forgotten god whose domain is the opposite of dreams (flesh/shell, presumably)

[lean temple]

I mean Greyroot is a Root tho, who as far as we know are their own beings

Still pretty cool theory

[twin dragon]

I don't think pollips have to do anything specific with it

They might be a simple sacrifice

[twin dragon]

Wrong, gms wasn't active when the citadel was in power

[stark halo]

In this case I just generally mean "forgotten god" in the sense of "being of great power that was forgotten"; the Needolin dialogue in the Chapel of the Witch has a refrain about "Forgotten"

[lean temple]

I don't remember that dialogue I'll have to look

[placid meadow]

Well maybe the path existed before and that was the reason why she put Phantom there in the first place

[twin dragon]

She would have zero reason to

As there wasn't rlly anything that needed protection

[placid meadow]

Ohh really ? And what about preventing the nobles from escaping

[twin dragon]

what nobles

also escaping from where exactly

[placid meadow]

Well ,this path look like those secret path inside of Castles

That only the King know them , etc...

[twin dragon]

thing is that section didn't exist till the weavers built the citadel

[placid meadow]

Well ,it was maybe the Weavers who created this escape path to leave as soon as possible

[twin dragon]

there wasn't any exhaust organ

Also it is stated that she's tasked to expell the citadel's refuse

[placid meadow]

Look like a Airblower to me

With the piano as a control mechanism to the air stream

But I approve that they used this as they sewer

Wait

I realised something

Murchin , the nest

It's nearby

[twin dragon]

Basically what it does yeah

[opaque pier]

How is lace gonna survive after the true ending if gms cant give her silk, is she doomed?

[craggy smelt]

maybe

[split path]

guys what's groal the great's lore

how he got the vengeful spirit

[opaque pier]

Killed the caretakers brother and got his soul

[split path]

that's sad

[bronze turret]

GMS transfered her remaining essence to Hornet so they could escape. It's uncertain if this was enough to make Hornet capable of providing silk to Lace now, or if it was just a last ditch effort to help them escape that is not enough for it.

[opaque pier]

I hope lace dies lowkey and gets grey like phantom

[bronze turret]

I'm thinking along the lines of the idea that beings' powers can be absorbed into one another, as we see multiple times across the story

[stark halo]

Cousin, I believe

[stark halo]

It's possible Lace will be fine on a single Silk Heart, although Hornet might need to give it back to her lol. Weavelight could also help maybe

[opaque pier]

Meh doesnt matter since hes super dead

[bronze turret]

Perhaps. It was pretty much open to interpretation as it is. Maybe it might be addressed in future DLCs, but it feels like the kind of thing TC would rather leave it open

[stark halo]

I'm mostly mentioning because the Bell Hermit is the caretaker's uncle and there's a sort of implication there that the reason he's so... y'know, Bell Hermit is because his son died/Groal killed his son
*if I remember correctly

[bronze turret]

Huh, good point!

I never connected the dots that the cousin could be Hermit's child

Ok gotta leave have errands to run bye!

[opaque pier]

Makes senss cuz a lot of hk's themes are about parents caring about their children

More or less

[stark halo]

Yeah, definitely wasn't trying to be like "ur wrong on this random tiny detail" sorry lmao, was gonna clarify but currently trying to fight absrad

[stone herald]

Maybe she finds a way to scrounge off of the citadels silk or Hornet can feed her

[stone herald]

i interpreted that as mainly being what fueled the big leap to get out of the void, it was spent in that i think

[opaque pier]

I just formed the most horrid mental image of hornet feeding lace in my head and i want to forget it asap

[stone herald]

nah itd probably be something like hornet stitching lace up or something

[opaque pier]

Yeah thatd be better

[crystal iris]

What’ve you guys been talking about

[fringe hull]

Lost verdania is so peak

[crystal iris]

Fr

[midnight zinc]

I don’t think Lace needs to eat

[crystal iris]

Does hornet need to eat?

All she does in game is drink beer

[midnight zinc]

She’s just like me fr

But honestly I don’t think she needs to eat, she’s immortal

[drifting apex]

What's the reason that high halls has so much water everywhere?

[midnight zinc]

Looks like it utilizes hydraulic power

[drifting apex]

Is it somehow connected to bilewater?

[edgy nebula]

possibly, or ducts

[crystal iris]

Isn’t the hot spring right below that

[teal drift]

Bell Hermit is yet another failure in the idgaf olympocs

I think the snail shaman who truly cared the least was the chapel maiden she actually did not care that much.

[frosty gate]

Why though? He never cared

[frosty gate]

Bilewater is the waste disposal place for the Citadel

[feral thistle]

PK is lowk a saint compared to the the weavers

[frosty gate]

He didn't "make it" non aggresive

Void is mostly passive

Or at least, not "World Destroyer" aggresive

Opportunistic, as it has been said

[potent patio]

we can all agree that these are the hallownest bugs right?

[hard widget]

I don’t remember which hunters journal entry but she does need to eat jsut not very often due to her unique shell

[frosty gate]

I need to know what do you mean by this

[crystal iris]

The waste disposal was the puteified ducts, but eventually it dripped down into bilewater

[frosty gate]

It's when she speaks with the tender at Halfway Home.
She says she rarely needs sustenance

[hard widget]

Thsts right thanks

[frosty gate]

Well yeah, it was all connected at some point most likely

[hard widget]

The ducts were the path and bilewater was the destination

[potent patio]

so you know how the pale king gave bug and beast minds? this is probably how the residences of hallownest (specifically the wandering husk) looked like before that when they were just common bugs, like how the weavers were just those little spiders. i hope that makes sense

[charred nimbus]

I mean, they could be hallownest bugs and Pharloom bugs, since you find then in the surface of Pharloom they may aswell be some of the barrens type of bugs, a bug doesn't need to be from only a specific region....

Oh wait, i think i got the statement wrong

....

[potent patio]

i think i should have phrased it better tbh

[charred nimbus]

well, but additing to yout statement and what i said, they very well could be the same bugs, like, Hornet even mentions knowing some bugs like the beastfly and huntress despite they never been found in Hallownest

Hornet problaby travelled alot to meet a Huntress bug, but the beastfly she met as a child

[potent patio]

i think the huntress thing may be a reference to old concept art

[charred nimbus]

from the first game?

[frosty gate]

I have thought about this, but the wording with Pale King is specifically "Expanded the mind" while GMS specifically evolved them
I don't rule out the possibility, but I think that they are just common bugs from the surface that live beneath sand, as Hornet stated. The corpse that gives you the Memento is just a regular bug, so these could be animals for all we know

[potent patio]

yeah i swear there was a bug that looked very similar

[charred nimbus]

oh, i'll try to find those, but i have no idea how

i never saw any of the concept art too

[potent patio]

i may be thinking of these

[charred nimbus]

Yeah

I just found it as a reddit post Haha

I found a reddit post comparing the left image with the huntress

[charred nimbus]

I mean, if it was a inspiration for the Huntress it went throught a BIG rework, so i don't think Hornet knowing the Huntress has anything to do with this old concept art

I'm pretty sure Hornet just traveled alot and met the same species at some time

[potent patio]

what was the exact quote because its possible hornet was refering to styx

[charred nimbus]

Nah, you can get this dialogue without ever meeting Styx, and Styx isn't the same species as the Huntress, he's just cosplaying as her

Let me get the dialogue

[hard widget]

Yeha cuz Styx is a little creep

[charred nimbus]

@potent patio Ssssppiidderr... Your ssstench is strange... yet similar. Your tension isss smelt strong. Do I ssseem a threat to you?
Hornet: This whole land keeps me cautious, tall one, and your claws look to have seen much sharp use.
Yesss... I kill, gladly, but only to feed my ssshhhell, and my brood to come.
Your meat... much ssssustanence it could grant... but too hard to pry... Your long, false claw would ssslash back ssswift.
Hornet: Good, so you can sense my skill, as I yours. A truce then, that we both shall live beyond our meeting.

I think this specific dialogue doesn't prove what i said but

[potent patio]

yeah i think huntress is refering to hornets weaver lineage

[charred nimbus]

And better the organs of others than they feed upon your own, yes?
Sssssskkkk... One should not be surprised, for the sssspppider to perceive the truth of my requests.
Hornet: A child of one like you, many times I've seen it similar. They will be born hungry, with sharp tooth and claw.

I meant to send this one

[frosty gate]

I still find that interaction hilarious because it implies Hornet and Huntress looked at each other with massive killing intent and then said "This will be a drag" and decided not to fight

[charred nimbus]

Hornet says she saw a child like the ones of Huntress

[potent patio]

to me that sounds more like the concept of mother and her kids instead of an actuall interaction with huntresses specific spiecies

like for example gruz mother did something simillar

[hard widget]

It’s like how most large predators won’t go after humans cuz we’re too much of a waste of energy to take down (excluding polar bears)

[charred nimbus]

Yeah, that makes sense

[frosty gate]

Hornet: A child of one like you, many times I've seen it similar. They will be born hungry, with sharp tooth and claw.
Hornet: In their birth-craze, your own meat would delight as much as another bugs. This feast is distraction, in hope to save your shell.

[charred nimbus]

Hornet got sad that she would waste energy and couldn't destroy another household

[charred nimbus]

I still find it funny that Runt asks for the same amount of meat that Huntress asked for her WHOLE BROOD

Bro is gonna turn into some higher being bodybuilder after the quest

[serene wagon]

Can someone explain for what reasons The Citadel needed pilgrims and how they managed to call them for such a long journey?

[serene wagon]

I mean if not only for working in underworks…

[frosty gate]

Some for the Choir, some for the Underworks
A lot for cruel experiments where they would die a gruesome death.

It's all that meme of a Cow, it doesn't matter which path you go, you most likely die in Pharloom as a Pilgrim

"The Illusion of free choice"

[serene wagon]

Oh gosh how could I forget about the whiteward things and mb the conductor Mizello thing

Definitely there is no choice for them and the worst thing they can’t bring a weapon

I just can’t understand how The Citadel convinced pilgrims to ascend to their place

[serene wagon]

Also as I understand conductor Mizello was a pilgrim?

[frosty gate]

We don't know the Origin of the Conductors or the Vaultkeepers, but there is a chance they were Pilgrims at some point

Just better pilgrims I guess

[humble peak]

Something funny about the Conductors is how the game makes several mention of them bearing the heaviest mantles
And when you see them you see they literally wear these giant heavy-ass mantles

"Mantle" probably isn't the best word to describe what they wear but it's close enough

[frosty gate]

They're Mantles, yes.
With a helmet, but still mantles

[serene wagon]

Idk how they wear these mantles and see thru them but they are cool as heck

[frosty gate]

We don't really know how they look below them tbh

[serene wagon]

But I mean they are not technically uuuh

See thru them

[frosty gate]

Even if we assume OldP is Romino

[serene wagon]

Cause most of them are dead and moving by silk

So technically they are just puppets. I mean dead body being taken over by silk

[frosty gate]

Ballador could see

The Unravelled is an exception

[serene wagon]

Ballador is the one who gave you one of the conductors melody? I just don’t remember (yeah my memory is so bad)

[frosty gate]

Yeah that's the one

Their mantles seem to be hats actually

[serene wagon]

I can’t even see Ballador

[humble peak]

Like the heavy part is definitely more of a hat/helmet/mask but the drapes coming out from it are very mantle-esque

Do y'all think Ballador was able to read the Rune Harp we get from his body in Act 3?

[light mauve]

Who the hell is ballador

[humble peak]

Me when I don't read like 3 messages up 😔

The guy who gives you the Conductors' Melody

[light mauve]

Ohh

I think he couldn’t

[humble peak]

On one hand, yeah how tf do you even read that?
On the other, the harp has some notable lore about the true nature of Pharloom, which aligns with Ballador knowing some stuff on that.

[frosty gate]

The Conductors already knew some stuff, so maybe Ballador knows how to read Weaverscript

[light mauve]

Or maybe he doesn’t

[humble peak]

Very insightful

[edgy nebula]

why didnt romino live in the blasted steps? is he stupid?

[humble peak]

Ok so like wtf happens in Twisted Child?
When I heard about the ending I imagined you'd bind GMS like normal but the Root would like, leach the power taken and use it to grow.
But instead it just kinda goes ham when you get the last hit. What?

[edgy nebula]

greyroot got more than what she wanted at first and now presumably she spans much farther and is possibly much stronger

[humble peak]

No I get that

[edgy nebula]

then what's the question?

[humble peak]

Why does this happen when it does?

What makes this the moment the bud is able to overcome Hornet?
It'd make sense if it was like
A few seconds later, when she tries to bind GMS
But here?

[frosty gate]

I guess the bud recognized an insane amount of soul/silk and said "Fuck both of you, time to consume"

[humble peak]

Do you guys think Greyroot is notably powerful for being able to infect Hornet at all? Or was it just that she got the jump on her?
I'm leaning towards the latter.

[naive lake]

I have an opinion that the alchemist who was injecting lifeblood was not injecting real life blood around wormways, instead i believe it was an altered version of it he deemed stable

[humble peak]

Why so?

[humble peak]

Why do you guys think the chapels all close once you've claimed their crests?

[silk dirge]

probably just gameplay stuff

i dont think theres a lore reason

i think tc just wants to say "hey theres nothing here now you didnt miss anything super important"

[heavy gyro]

lifeblood abyss door moment

[tepid mountain]

Hornet shuts them on her way out so no bugs get in.

[silk dirge]

ok but there you can actually miss an arcane egg

no chapel locks you out of like a relic or smth important

[heavy gyro]

yeah thats why i mentioned it

[silk dirge]

the closest thing is you get locked out of the lore room in architect chapel

[limber ferry]

is it intentional that Karmelitas fight in her dream is so empty besides the arena itself unlike for example khanns which seemed way bigger, like is there a lore reason for that?

[viscid ridge]

Ok so im pretty sure hornet is referring to the weaverlings when she is talking about knowing only smaller things having life made entirely from silk. Cause the weaverlings doesn't seem to be constructs like the weavenests robots, they seem alive, but they are also not actual flesh, their entirely silk.

[limber ferry]

yeah thatd make sense

[foggy fractal]

not really
the out of universe explanation though is that his backer paid money to add a dungeon and boss, not just a boss

basically he paid a higher tier award

[vestal swan]

Like tiso being just an NPC

[limber ferry]

oh i see

sad

[foggy fractal]

I hope to see the remaining backer stuff in silksong's dlcs

[limber ferry]

imagine they do another dream expansion like they did with hollow knight 😭

[foggy fractal]

cuz otherwise I'm not sure if TC is gonna ever add it, and they have to do that so 🤷‍♂️ and idk if the backers will be happy waiting literally 10+ years

[past cypress]

The lore reason is probably that Karmelita dreams of her former glory while Khann dreams of his kingdom's former glory

[frosty gate]

What's the topic?

[frosty gate]

Or the spots.
Khann dreams in the Coral Tower, where he would usually sit at the top.
Karmel dreams near her stage

Odd one out is Nyleth

Although, seeing Nyleth was part of the Shellwood itself, it makes sense she's kinda everywhere and nowhere

[potent patio]

did gms specifically choose female pharlids or did she just change their gender once she turned them into weavers

[silk dirge]

probably the first one but im going to go with the second one bc trans weavers is better

[charred nimbus]

She problaby chose the female ones

[potent patio]

fr

[charred nimbus]

My friend has a headcanon that Phantom is a male trans and that's why GMS got mad at then, this problaby isn't the case but i can flow with it since i don't know the fucking reason that GMS would discard such a aura farming daughter

Nobody farms more aura in any world then Phantom

Lace is a wimp.

[silk dirge]

im just saying this so i can claim first sinner as trans

bc that would be epic

[charred nimbus]

Yeah haha, that's fair, i was just mentioning this headcanon my friend has

[silk dirge]

being able to weave your own dress in like a second is a skill many trans girls including me would want

peak aura farming

[charred nimbus]

I love first sinner

She's just a badass too

[halcyon merlin]

i can't read their names without thinking of this now

first sinner
second sentinel
third lace fight
fourth chorus

[slim tree]

silksong made me realize how terrifying the void is

Its not like this cutesy aesthetic that the vessels have no

this stuff genuinely erases you

[brittle cedar]

Knight is kitten with eldritch horror inside

[mossy jungle]

hey all, got another question for the book: why were the envoys that captured Hornet crossing the bridge to shellwood while carrying her? Did they intend to pass through bilewater? It would've been 1) difficult with cage 2) near suicidal mission

[slim tree]

Like i never really thought about it but if the pale king wasnt a genius his whole kingdom would have evaporated

[mossy jungle]

you could paraphrase it as the pale beings' equivalent of playing with fire, because if anything lesser to them tries they would be gobbled up in a matter of minutes

[slim tree]

like such a thin string of void is enough to cause entire void masses and basically destroy common bugs in seconds

[silk dirge]

probably going through a bellway

[mossy jungle]

that would make sense! I will take this as headcanon

[silk dirge]

or the fabled 3 dimensional path hornet cant take

[slim tree]

the void literally has one weakness and its an extinct flower

That isnt even a full counter its just the only thing that can temporarily repell it

[mossy jungle]

is it extinct though? The world is BIG now that the continent has been mentioned

[heavy gyro]

lighthouse

[slim tree]

wait what continent

[slim tree]

thats true nvm

still thats just for the uhh the not sibling void

[charred nimbus]

I mean, you can construct more lighthouses

[mossy jungle]

yk, the macro ambient in which GMS hunts the weaver's descendants, it's not just Hallownest and Pharloom, we know that much

[slim tree]

Oh i thought you meant like it was named

[mossy jungle]

Everbloom might be extinct in Hallownest and Pharloom, but it doesn't mean it doesn't grow elsewhere

[slim tree]

Was it ever confirmed if they needed some pale bullshit for the lights or no

[vestal swan]

The wide world of the games universe does not have a name, it all still seems to be underground and we just have different countries or regions with names

[silk dirge]

i mean id imagine theres probably some sort of ocean

[potent patio]

im pretty sure phantom is non binary

[silk dirge]

maybe pharloom bay is part of it

[mossy jungle]

The only line of dialogue in which this word is used is with the alchemist, saying he hasn't seen anything like plasmium in the harsh terrain of the "continent"

[lapis moth]

can we say extinct even with the knight leaving her at the tomb?

[vestal swan]

!wiki plasmium alchemist

[charred nimbus]

Yeah, there's plenty of then growing in Grey mourners lover tomb

[potent patio]

thats a good point

[mossy jungle]

that's also true! I would assume it isn't, tho we know nothing about if it needs substenance to grow or how/if it reproduces

[vestal swan]

Can't really say extinct if it never existed in that location, there should still be some in hollownest and pharloom never seems to have had any, with it existing only as a rumor to the people with the oldest knowledge around

[dry heart]

why did the snail shamans die when sending hornet to the dream world

[silk dirge]

we still dont actually know where everblooms originate from

[vestal swan]

Lands serene

[silk dirge]

yeah but we have no clue where that is

[mossy jungle]

where Ze'mer comes from surely has a lot

[vestal swan]

The spell consumed too much energy and they got eaten as part of the fuel seems like

[potent patio]

shouldve used the fourth heart smh

[silk dirge]

a lot of people pre release thought lands serene was pharloom

[mossy jungle]

hey, sick af profile picture, I love second sentinel

[vestal swan]

We see it sprout and turn into a bunch more when we put it on the grave

[silk dirge]

maybe itll be dlc

[dry heart]

fr whjat if they used 4

[potent patio]

TYSM

[lapis moth]

have more information about this, or only the name?

[silk dirge]

maybe lands serene is near city of steel

[potent patio]

wrong message lmao

[potent patio]

tysm

[vestal swan]

Just the name and the fact that that's where Zemers from

[silk dirge]

it would certainly be cool dlc

[mossy jungle]

may I ask where the image is from?

[silk dirge]

i could imagine lands serene maybe were a nice place and then the steel masters did a pharloom to it?

[dry heart]

pls godhome dlc pls

[silk dirge]

we will hopefully see in dlc idk

[potent patio]

its a reddit post i think i can send you the link

[lapis moth]

with sure we'll have more about the steel

[silk dirge]

we have very little info on either

[mossy jungle]

oooh I would like that yes, ty

[lapis moth]

one question, the marrow and bonebotton had some diference before the citatel?

[silk dirge]

moss grotto is something i think we havent fully figured out yet

theres just like plants there somehow

im curious if moss grotto was possibly a weaver experiment to hide weavenest atla?

idk

[lapis moth]

i think moss grotto its only plants

[sinful nimbus]

Well plants can show up naturally too

[lapis moth]

i heard a theory that the marrow its the body of bugs that try arrive at citatel, but i think they just was there before citatel

[sinful nimbus]

There were a few natural ones in HK and Silksong in particular has stuff like Wisp Thicket

[mossy jungle]

Wisp Thicket seems so... foreign, especially since it's close to shellwood

I wonder if it's a fraction of the wildlife that existed before nyleth that endured by being in a place so secluded

[silk dirge]

yeah true

the double moss mothers seem like some sort of possible weaver experiment tho

unless the weavenests had a lot of cracks and they got in somehow

which i could see maybe they started crumbling since itd been a real long time

[desert copper]

is granny silk void?

[vestal swan]

No

[silk dirge]

ok wait this is actually a really good explanation for why verdania starts to regrow

[desert copper]

then why is she black?

[vestal swan]

That's not how that works

[silk dirge]

all the other old hearts only remember very specific things and not their whole domain

[vestal swan]

Holy wall of yapp

[desert copper]

yeah well why is she tho

[silk dirge]

where green prince remembers his whole domain

so when you kill the other old hearts what little they remember of their domain fades away when you kill green prince it breaks out and begins regrowing

this is a lot of speculation but thats a pretty cool idea

[halcyon merlin]

bugs are just normally black

even though in a way sure gms shouldn't be black... isn't she a pale being

[foggy fractal]

by this logic every other bug is void because their limbs are black

hell every bug is void actually cuz their outlines are black

to answer why ? we don't know an actual lore reason, just chop it up to ari's design decisions

[charred nimbus]

Damn, i had no idea that Chef Lugoli was void all this time

I should've learned hollow knight lore better 😭

[light mauve]

Wait guys it all makes sense now! Elderbug is void

That’s why he was so strong in hollow knight

[viscid ridge]

Can someone please explain to me what this sign is supposed to represent. I have been wondering about it since the game came out

[halcyon merlin]

it looks like a potion to me

[viscid ridge]

Cause like, this looks like nothing the relic seeker has, or wants, doesn't look like her, so what the actual hell is this?

[blissful harbor]

it’s an old bottle
it’s a picture of a relic

[charred nimbus]

It is also a potion for me, i legit tought this shop would have something to do with potions or magic instead of a collector

[viscid ridge]

It also looks like a phail or something, kinda like the lifeblood syringe, but what the heck does it have to do with relics 🤣

Cause its been anoying me since my first playthrough, cause it doesn't match 🤣

[viscid ridge]

Which one, cause id like to know 😭

[charred nimbus]

we have no idea if it is a relic or not

and it seens more of a representative alphabet symbol then a picture

so yeah

[blissful harbor]

how in the world does that look like a letter to you, we see actual pharloom letters everywhere

[viscid ridge]

I think if it was just a random scribble or something it would make more sense, but it looks like a picture of something, so thats why it annoys me 🤣

[blissful harbor]

it’s clearly a picture

[desert copper]

I WAS JUST ASKING BECAUSE SHE'S A PALE BEING

I THOUGHT THAT SHE WAS VOID

[vestal swan]

I don't even want to know how that led to you to that conclusion

[desert copper]

I DONT KNOW SILKSONG LORE OKAY?

[halcyon merlin]

tbh white lady and pk aren't black at all (unless im dumb)

i remember them being all white

[vestal swan]

We don't see their lower bodies and TK's body comes from them too, so one of them has a blackish lower half

[halcyon merlin]

fair enough

[vestal swan]

It's probably not white lady btw

[desert copper]

ALL I KNOW IS THAT WEAVERS ARE NORMAL SPIDERS ELEVATED BY GMS AND THAT THEYRE ALL FEMALE

[vestal swan]

Why are you yelling also yeah that's accurate

[desert copper]

THATS THE ONLY PART THAT I CAUGHT FROM SK

[desert copper]

it is?

how come?

[halcyon merlin]

first sinner fight

[vestal swan]

She mutated a bunch of lower creatures into the weavers, and as far as we know all of them are female because they always refer to each other as sisters and how they are all afflicted by the same curse making it hard to have children

[desert copper]

oh i thought you said i was inaccurate

[halcyon merlin]

a

[desert copper]

b

[charred nimbus]

Oh, sorry lil bro, i forgot how musical notes are letters, my bad

[halcyon merlin]

solute radiance

[charred nimbus]

And spear points too, clearly letters

[blissful harbor]

yk what i meant lmao, it’s clearly not regular pharloom writing

but sure

[charred nimbus]

The craws also use a different symbol alphabet then the common Pharloom writing

[vestal swan]

Yeah but nobody's using a bottle as a letter

[desert copper]

i love your phantom pfp

[vestal swan]

Like that could not more obviously be a glass jar bottle situation going on

[charred nimbus]

That makes more sense, thanks

[desert copper]

also whats the cannon hk ending?

[vestal swan]

For this timeline, ETV

[halcyon merlin]

i was going to say dream no more thinking it was etv lol

[desert copper]

etv?

[halcyon merlin]

embrace the void godhome ending

[mossy jungle]

embrace the void

[charred nimbus]

I got so flabbergasted when i noticed that my phantom pfp actually matched well with the discord pfp effect

[halcyon merlin]

did u not finish silksong?

[charred nimbus]

I was using this effect before i changed to phantom lmao

[desert copper]

i did

[halcyon merlin]

then you can see shade lord appearing when the knight saves hornet

[desert copper]

ohhh

[arctic cliff]

I want to fight Vespa, she can teleport

[opaque pier]

Why are people saying we pet the bell beast into submission, i thought we were hitting her to get rid of the silk

[humble peak]

Yeah that's how I read it too

[desert copper]

no i dont think smacking it around was getting rid of anything

[vestal swan]

That's just insane speed Quirrel moves like that too, and Shakra

[opaque pier]

Why do we gain silk from her tho

[halcyon merlin]

we gain silk from hitting anything

[desert copper]

and hornet too with cross stich

[vestal swan]

TRUE

I forgot

[desert copper]

you get silk from anything

[vestal swan]

Also lace and phantom

[desert copper]

oh yeah

[opaque pier]

Yeah but some dont make sense lorewise that everyone gives silk

[halcyon merlin]

idk if beating to submission makes too much sense

[opaque pier]

Like shakra for example

[desert copper]

forgot about the croisant head

[halcyon merlin]

hornet silk is basically the same as knight soul

[desert copper]

esacly

[halcyon merlin]

you just have to understand it like this

[opaque pier]

Still weird cuz yeah everyone has soul but silk? Even non haunted characters giving it still seems weird

Like do the void fly thingies in red memory give silk? I dont remember

[halcyon merlin]

its just how hornet soul ability is like i guess

it acts as silk

[opaque pier]

It would make sense if she stole soul that then she weaves into silk

[desert copper]

game mechanics and lore aren't realy...relatable...

[halcyon merlin]

i guess that also makes sense

[opaque pier]

:((((

[halcyon merlin]

like dying and respawning for example

[light mauve]

I think it is actually explained

[halcyon merlin]

i like that one thing I've read on reddit before that the game respawn is hornet and the knight foresight ability from pk

[humble peak]

This is a nonsense argument yeah
But the strong argument is Bell Beast gives off silk particles when hit and a fuckton explode off of her when you win.

[halcyon merlin]

what is it

[desert copper]

intresting

[light mauve]

Hornets cocoon is a self preserve technique she created and knight is void

So she doesn’t die just saves herself I think

[halcyon merlin]

like just running away, idk... because the game time reverts so it jusr doesn't make sense for me

[light mauve]

I personally like foresight theory but I think it’s just self preservation

[vestal swan]

Respawn isn't canon in either game

[fervent sigil]

is gms a grandmother or a mother that is grand? since her name spells “Grand Mother Silk” and not “Grandmother Silk”

[vestal swan]

Both

She's not genetically a mother but the weavers and lace and phantom are basically her daughters, and any children that come from the weavers would be grandchildren. So she is both a grand mother and a grandmother to hornet

[sinful nimbus]

How it feels to see the final boss is named John Silk \🥀

The memes about the final boss being called The Silksong weren't far off

[foggy fractal]

Found Lace 🗣️

[vestal swan]

Discord itself got sick of your bad takes so it took away the wilted rose emote

[sinful nimbus]

Does \🥀 not show up on mobile

Skill issue

[vestal swan]

Ehrm akshually the silk song is what defeated her

[foggy fractal]

oh we see it

[vestal swan]

🥀

It does for me

[desert copper]

holy employed

lmao brovaloski got a job

[sinful nimbus]

Discord so mean to me \💔 \🥀

[desert copper]

me too twin

[foggy fractal]

here's what it looks like on pc

[teal drift]

🥀

[desert copper]

they dont understand us cause we diffrent

[fervent sigil]

but aren’t weavers some sort of ‘adopted’ since weavers were pharlids but transformed to weavers by gms?

[vestal swan]

Yeah none of them are her biological daughters like I already said

[humble peak]

There is zero contradiction between that and what they said

[fervent sigil]

they said “grandchildren” and not the adopted version (i forgot what it’s called)

[tepid mountain]

Is there a different word for that??

[unreal estuary]

Pretty sure that's still just grandchildren even if the child is adopted

[vestal swan]

There's not an adopted term for grandchildren

You would just say they're adopted

[fervent sigil]

yeah ur right since an adopted child’s children are still called grand children

i also need confirmation for this

[vestal swan]

Accurate

[fervent sigil]

if it’s accurate then all of herrah’s sisters are hornet’s aunts

[vestal swan]

Yeah basically

Lace is her eternally a child aunt

And if lace ends up getting adopted by hornet that makes TK the aunt/uncle of lace too

This family tree is very funny

[fervent sigil]

so ur just fighting aunts in ss

[vestal swan]

Aunts and ants

[tepid mountain]

Herrah’s a pretty unique weaver, given what we’ve seen of the other weavers.

I guess that’s why she’s “The Beast.”

[vestal swan]

We don't know why she's so different besides TC doing a bad retcon

[foggy fractal]

we'll get a first sinner esque cutscene but for Herrah in DLC TRUST

[unreal estuary]

From lore tablets in deepnest 'beast' seems to just be Hallownest's term for Deepnest bug

[vestal swan]

That's not accurate because her dead husband apparently was not a beast

[unreal estuary]

True but Herrah is called 'a common beast' in the same tablet

[fervent sigil]

wait herrah had a husband?

[vestal swan]

She had a husband that never gave her a child before she got one from PK but that original husband died

[unreal estuary]

So while her Husband is of some 'honoured caste' Herrah and other creatures are 'beasts'

[fervent sigil]

also who’s tc

[unreal estuary]

Team Cherry

[chilly gyro]

So anyone els notice how the arena for the sprint master game takes place in what is essentially a colossal shell? That kinda looks like the queens gardens thing?

[vestal swan]

Which is still not accurate because Weaver's are not beasts, they are the smartest part of the spiders and beast usually referred to the low and stupid ones

[vestal swan]

Yeah there's a lot of giant corpses, he also mentions it when you go to race him

[unreal estuary]

that's why I'm saying that 'beast' probably isn't a special term, but rather just a general term that the Hallownest bugs used for the spiders outside of their kingdom

[sterile jacinth]

It looks like the colosseum of fools a little too I think

[fervent sigil]

are ALL weavers from GMS?

[unreal estuary]

yep

[vestal swan]

Just accept that they did a bad retcon

[sterile jacinth]

Herrah might just be elevated from a different bug. She could have been a bit of an experiment

But it does feel like a retcon

[chilly gyro]

And there’s like, dozens of them in the background as you make your way to it. I wish we could just get at least a passing mention of what these things are suppose to be. Don’t even care if it’s a single line of dialogue from an offhand comment, at least something would be nice

[fervent sigil]

can we talk about how GMS just silk haunts the pharlids in pharloom instead of transforming them into weavers? is there a reason for this

[unreal estuary]

Oh I will very much accept that they did a bad retcon, but I do think both can be true. Even in Hollow Knight there are spiders like the Devouts and the wall-crawly guys that aren't Weavers that are labelled as Beasts alongside Herrah

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah. Does add to the vibe tho

[unreal estuary]

On the other hand their Weaver lore was absolutely altered entirely without consideration of how it would affect the rest of the game

[sterile jacinth]

The weavers betrayed her. I doubt she’d want to make more

[chilly gyro]

She wants her old daughters back as revenge. Making new ones would just be counterproductive since the last ones betrayed her

[sterile jacinth]

I don’t think she elevated all of them. Plus haunting must take less energy than elevating

[vestal swan]

Giant old dead bugs, for example coliseum is just called a giant bug so it's not exactly anything special except for its size

[unreal estuary]

Also she's still kind of asleep, and it's unclear how much she can do while under the control of the Citadel's song

[sterile jacinth]

I’m guessing for those examples it’s been so long no one really remembers anymore

[vestal swan]

All who?

[sterile jacinth]

Yes that’s true. I do think she has influence and can speak to her daughters tho

[sterile jacinth]

Pharlids

[chilly gyro]

Yeah, but are any still around or are they the HK equivalent to extinct dinosaurs? It’s just so confusing

[unreal estuary]

Yeah, we see she speaks to Hornet and is aware of her through the Silk Hearts

[fervent sigil]

why tho, one bind from GMS is probably equal to the amount of silk hornet uses

[vestal swan]

Well we have two games and we don't see any Kaiju besides the Bell eater

[sterile jacinth]

Yes and giving life and power and intelligence to what is essentially like a rat would take a lot more energy. Not worth it

[fervent sigil]

so GMS uses a shit ton of silk to transform 1 pharlid into a weaver?

[unreal estuary]

Probably the latter, especially given dialogue from Bardoon where he says that the Pale King's 'like' are gone. That could just mean Wyrms, but could also mean megafauna like the Sprintmaster arena, Green Beast, Ancient Nailsmith, etc.

[vestal swan]

We don't know how straining the process was

[sterile jacinth]

I would assume so. I doubt it’s easy. It seems to be something only a god can really do

There are also a lot more haunted bugs than there were weavers

[tepid mountain]

She could also have just missed some before she fell asleep.

[unreal estuary]

GMS seems to have unlimited silk so yeah it probably requires a LOT of energy to uplift bugs

[charred nimbus]

this doesn't make sense because the weavers were the ones to put her to sleep i think

[humble peak]

Bardoon doesn't necessarily mean that what he addresses are extinct. "Its like gone" could just mean it was the only one in the area and it's gone now.
If the last fish in my pond dies I might say it feels emptier with its like gone. But there can still be more fish in the world.

[chilly gyro]

So there was a canonical extinction event? I’ll take it I guess. Still keeping a head cannon that the more sentient giants like The Hunter or the Ancient Naismith are still around, just not in Hallownest

[unreal estuary]

Or just over time they all slowly died out for some reason yeah

It's generally ambiguous enough to where anything could be possible

[chilly gyro]

This is my headcannon. There are still some giants, just not anywhere we know of

[sterile jacinth]

I hc it’s been so long no one really knows anymore

All we really have are the remains

[unreal estuary]

Alternatively, Wyrms and things like the Colosseum corpse and the Sprintmaster corpse could have been tunneling creatures that formed the caverns we see in both games, and their corpses are places where they died mid-dig

[frosty gate]

It would explain why the land is so dry and horrible

[chilly gyro]

So there the things that dug the tunnels everyone els lives in? Thats actually a really interesting theory

[fervent sigil]

i would guess colo and sprintmaster corpse’s are old types of wyrms

[sinful nimbus]

But there's only one wyrm in the area

And its a foreign wyrm

[fervent sigil]

the kings brand?

[sinful nimbus]

Yes

[sterile jacinth]

I thought that was pk?

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah

[unreal estuary]

it is, but he isn't from Hallownest

[sterile jacinth]

Ok fair

[fervent sigil]

his body is in white palace

[sinful nimbus]

The most sensible interpretation of Bardoon's dialogue is that all wyrms have transformed into smaller forms or that all wyrms are gone period

[frosty gate]

Yeah, the Bug Body

[sinful nimbus]

I lean towards the former because "The world is smaller" seems like wordplay about their impressive size

[silk dirge]

i think probably a mix of both

some wyrms transformed others probably died

[sinful nimbus]

Well those are kinda the same thing

[silk dirge]

yeah

[sinful nimbus]

Its considered rebirth

[silk dirge]

i meant like died without rebirth

[frosty gate]

Assuming that's possible

[silk dirge]

there was probably stronger wyrms and weaker ones and probably weaker ones got killed by stronger ones

[unreal estuary]

I mean it is the second time at least

[hasty flint]

I’m willing to take bardoon at his word that the wyrms are all gone, or at least so close to such that none are remotely close to hallownest and no word of them has reached anyone

[silk dirge]

its a whole lot of speculation

[fervent sigil]

i feel like pk isn’t fully wyrm and a wyrm mated with another specie that changed his size

[frosty gate]

What even is the deal with Bardoon, why does he know stuff

[silk dirge]

im curious if we will ever find out how many wyrms there actually were

bc if theres like thousands thats like thousands of gods assuming they all become hbs

[fervent sigil]

it’s from none to thousands

[hasty flint]

Bardoon might be some sort of lesser wyrm-kin from a modern age, akin to what wyverns are to ancient dragons in dark souls

[silk dirge]

bardoon says he isnt a wyrm

[hasty flint]

And wyverns aren’t dragons

[silk dirge]

bardoon is definitely special tho

he has the ability to detect dream nail

[hasty flint]

Yeah he and the white lady are-

[silk dirge]

which only special beings can do

[unreal estuary]

Or moths

[frosty gate]

Still special beings

[unreal estuary]

True

[hasty flint]

Yeah only they know so much about the dream nail that they sense it’s use. Moths are aware because it’s their tool

[silk dirge]

moths are definitely more "special" than regular bugs

theyre kinda like shamans

theyre mortal bugs but they have more powers

[sterile jacinth]

Were they created by rad or just revered rad?

[hasty flint]

Oh, don’t shamans also know about the nail when used

[silk dirge]

created

[silk dirge]

i dont remember

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah that might give them a similar status to weavers then

[frosty gate]

I believe they do yeah

[sterile jacinth]

They betrayed rad like the weavers betrayed gms

[fervent sigil]

im interested to know why WL doesn’t the flower from TK and says it’s evil or something but hornet goes into a deep memory to see WL having one and says we use it to repel the void

[silk dirge]

oh yeah he can

[hasty flint]

Anyways I do think that bardoon is some sort of very distant descendant of a wyrm, so far diluted as to be something wholly different

[frosty gate]

I actually still believe that information is unsure

[sterile jacinth]

I wonder if shamans have a similar story or if they were also elevated by some forgotten hb

[hasty flint]

Think a dozen generations or more

[silk dirge]

shamans might be remnants of ac

[sterile jacinth]

You might be right

[silk dirge]

its a theory

[unreal estuary]

They also very clearly have separate shells from their bodies

[hasty flint]

AC?

[silk dirge]

not a whole lot of evidence for it rn but who knows

[foggy fractal]

ancient civlization

[hasty flint]

Oh yeah

[silk dirge]

its either them or steel city

[hasty flint]

That’d make a whole lot of sense

[silk dirge]

unless the masters are like shamans or some shit but i doubt it

[unreal estuary]

Maybe they're a mixture of Soul and Void, they're the only ones strong enough to use Soul magic, and they dematerialize when they cast the heart spell, nobody else does that when using a spell

[sterile jacinth]

With their similarities to weavers I wonder if they were also at one point elevated by an hb and are now scattered for whatever reason

[silk dirge]

possibly

[hasty flint]

Also, speaking of steel city, do you think that maybe their attempt to summon a savior might have been mistargeting a different benevolent void being who is currently unaccounted for

[wet shadow]

Steel city's their own thing, they seem to be masters of history across the world, observers of everything

[unreal estuary]

I think people read some of the Abyss lore tablets or Arcane Eggs that saw people worshipping the Void, and then didn't actually look at what Void is

Like Sula never saw Void, she just read about it being special and venerated

pottentially

[hasty flint]

It would not surprise me if the shade of the hollow knight were still active elsewhere is what I’m saying. It’s unlikely they simply dissipated

[sterile jacinth]

Them worshipping the void would explain why they don’t exist anymore

[frosty gate]

Assuming DnM is the canon ending and not EtV

[silk dirge]

thk chilling on a random bench after seeing hornet get jumped by like 20 envoys

[sinful nimbus]

If I was THK I'd assume she could handle it too

[silk dirge]

i assume they maybe had other guys with them

they probably had like a gang of choristors and reeds with them

[frosty gate]

"You good? Need help?" It says in sign language

[unreal estuary]

Would THK even be sane if EtV was canon? Sure bugs like Sly and Bretta were able to be uninfected but they only have small amounts of infection inside, THK had the entire radiance inside them

[silk dirge]

hornet says that she thought the envoys were clever so they probably set some sort of trap

or rather it would be more accurate to say gms did

since the envoys wouldnt have like any mind its just gms controlling them

[sinful nimbus]

Falling for obvious traps like an idiot. She really is GMS's granddaughter

[frosty gate]

Yes.
We see its shade still know its purpose during DnM, we have no reason to believe that THK wouldn't be sane enough to not go on a rampage.
Of course, it would have to deal with ages of entrapment, daddy and abandon issues, survivors guilt and crippling loneliness

Otherwise, it would be sane

[silk dirge]

ok tbh i am really curious how the weavers first set her to sleep

i assume they built most of the citadel convincing her it was a church to her

and then were like sike what if we started blasting(music)

[frosty gate]

Yeah, we're not so sure about that anymore, timeline isn't adding up so it could go either way

[silk dirge]

my only contribution to timeline discussion is verdania hadnt fully died out before weavers left

the memorium was established under conductors

and has a verdania section

do with that info what you will

[frosty gate]

We don't know when the Weavers left, even then, we know not all of them left

[silk dirge]

hk timeline was also confusing like this iirc

like we dont know when the infection started

[frosty gate]

It's nowhere as confusing as this

[silk dirge]

true

i wonder if dlc will help at all

other than pharloom bay and steel city we have no idea whats in the cards

[frosty gate]

Let me check my shit cus I think there was a hint of it

[frosty gate]

Steel City won't be a DLC

It's not part of Pharloom

[silk dirge]

pharloom bay im pretty confident about but idk about steel city at all

do you think itll be a 3rd game?

just bc its not pharloom doesnt mean it cant be dlc

[frosty gate]

100%

Steel City is important

[silk dirge]

they could easily make like a boat from pharloom

[frosty gate]

Somehow

We will get Steel Assasins, fs, but City? Nope

[silk dirge]

i mean tc did say dlc was "ambitious" steel city could easily fall under that

[teal drift]

I feel like if they do a third game it will be steel city but im not sure we get a third game

[silk dirge]

the to be continued mr mushroom thing tho is so confusing

[frosty gate]

It was long after the Moths left. At the beggining it wasn't an Infection though

[silk dirge]

bc like to me it seems to imply the story of hk will continue

[teal drift]

Steel city could also be like more of a vibe than a specific location

I think me mushroom is more of a meta thing about team cheery

[silk dirge]

yeah

but then again he says hornets actions might hail him again in the future

[teal drift]

So mr mushroom is like inter dimensional and will appear regardless of if its an hk game

[silk dirge]

who knows with these guys

[frosty gate]

Usually, yeah, but I don't think there's any plans to stop

[teal drift]

He also has a monologue thats specifically about whether TC should do something new or keep pumping out HK content forever

[silk dirge]

i think possibly team cherry had plans post silksong but they realized they love the hk universe a lot and arent ready to move on from it

bc silksong completely derailed all of tcs post hk plans

like i dont think fearless fox is going to happen at all and if it is not soon

[unreal estuary]

They still have the domain name for Fearless Fox so I still think that'll be next post-dlc

It will definitely take while though

I still think they deserve a break

from this world

[silk dirge]

like fearless fox was registered like 2 or 3 years into silksong development

[frosty gate]

It would be nice to know their plans, maybe we'll get a video or an interview a some point

[unreal estuary]

Hopefully

[silk dirge]

it seems nothing changed from silksongs release

me when "various tweaks" in changelogs means large changes

[unreal estuary]

Well and then Hollow Knight 1.5 came out midway into Silksong's development so I don't know what was going on with that

[frosty gate]

There's not many events after that so it's basically a core moment in history. It's a before and after

[unreal estuary]

And they're still focussing on small patches rather than dlc it seems, unless William and Ari are doing dlc and Jack is stuck in the basement working on fixing bugs

[silk dirge]

this next patch is likely the last before dlc

someone met them at pax and they said that

[unreal estuary]

oh yeah? neat

[silk dirge]

https://www.reddit.com/r/HollowKnight/comments/1o3rtet/comment/nkfrn67/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

[timber pond]

Then my prediction is Pharloom Bay With a couple Wishes first. Perhaps one a side wish, one a Boss fight and one about the lifeblood.

[silk dirge]

lifeblood spire is likely to be in this dlc yeah

bc of zylotols dialog

[orchid pine]

Realistically DLC is only like 5+ months away

[orchid pine]

Lifeblood lore? Maybe there’ll be something explaining why Void doesn’t go near it

[halcyon merlin]

smh lazy devs it should've been added as soon as the game launched

[silk dirge]

i think this one probably isnt too far away

[light agate]

Bcz void is black and lifeblood is blue

[silk dirge]

a lot of pharloom bay and lifeblood spire seems implemented

[orchid pine]

I refuse to believe there isn’t something that conflicts lifeblood and void. Team Cherry would be stupid for it to only be a coincidence

[unreal estuary]

Wait I'm confused where has it ever been stated that Void and Lifeblood are opposed?

[light agate]

Lifeblood was in abyss so....

and paleking stopped lifeblood

[orchid pine]

There isn’t, but there’s some circumstantial evidence.
-# I’m tired

[light agate]

maybe he knew something

[unreal estuary]

That would make them more connected, not opposed

[orchid pine]

For example, why isn’t there any void in plasmified wormways? Like, at all

[light agate]

But it was able to survive in abyss without void affecting it

im just following your lead gng

[orchid pine]

I’m not saying lifeblood is like anti-void (although maybe…?), but it’s interesting that void seems to avoid it for whatever reason

[light agate]

How does void gets to pharloom , or is void in every kingdom?

[orchid pine]

The lifeblood rooms placement in HK is also a little coincidental. It feels like there is some correlation we don’t know about

[orchid pine]

Methinks you should finish the game before discussing lore

[light agate]

🙏😨

100% brochango

[muted lantern]

Void seems to be like the core of the world, like you'll find it like magma if you go deep enough

Abyss is just rifts that let you access the void

[light agate]

Ah

[muted lantern]

It's like the void in rain world if you've played that

[orchid pine]

That too. Also another intriguing question. Was it always like that or did the ancient civilization do something to affect the world enough that void has consumed a great deal of it

[muted lantern]

Void seems to be just a natural force of the world that the ancient civ worshipped and harnessed

[light agate]

Cooking

[muted lantern]

Void and plasmium seem to coexist considering we find that lifeblood zone in the abyss in hk

[orchid pine]

No that’s true, but I wonder if the areas below were once not affected and the void somehow expanded

[orchid pine]

Very crackpot, but it’s possible

[muted lantern]

Idk if there's even a higher being behind plasmium, it seems to be an unfocused natural force, kinda the yin to the voids yang so to speak. It's like uncontrolled life while void is more of a force of stagnation

[silk dirge]

wtf is the lifeblood creature then

[muted lantern]

I mean we have literally no idea

[orchid pine]

Well even with that at the very least void motes would still be floating in the air around plasmified wormways.

[muted lantern]

Certainly a powerful creature tied to lifeblood but isn't it called something like abyss creature in the files

I just don't know if it's necessarily a "higher being"

Nor is there anything to say it's the source of lifeblood @silk dirge

[orchid pine]

What the hell, I’ve spent way too many hours reading into the lore of this series and this is the first I’ve seen of this

[muted lantern]

I think like the void lifeblood is capable of becoming a higher being, but I don't think thats it's natural state

Like the void it needs something to focus it, if the lifeblood creature is that or is evolving into that we can't really say

We also know of beings like jonii

[manic pewter]

So is it agreed generally that lower beings can become higher beings through various different processes

[silk dirge]

no

only people who are already very close to higher beings like hornet can become one

but like for example the whole deal with weavers is they werent divine higher beings

[muted lantern]

We dont know of any normal beings without some divine ancestry ascending

[lethal burrow]

I say she's already one

[sinful nimbus]

Higher being is a meaningless term

[muted lantern]

Eh I'm not sure if I agree, she's referred to as higher by zi, but it seems like she only becomes one when she eats gms

[muted lantern]

Also apparently the shade cloak guy is called a higher being in the files

Which while not canon does kinda track with some of the ancient civ text referring to themselves as higher

[sinful nimbus]

Sure why not everyone and their (grand) mom is a higher being

[muted lantern]

At least I'm of the opinion the void worshipping texts in the abyss are from ancient civ because it doesn't really seem like a weaver thing to me, especially with arcane egg showing ancient civ presence in the area

[ocean crown]

Yea ain’t he an ancient bug

[muted lantern]

Ancient nail Smith is a higher being clearly

[silk dirge]

she is not

[muted lantern]

Also fucked up that ancient civ bugs have fucking humanoid skeletal structure on their limbs

[silk dirge]

weve had whole arguments over this but basically hornet is more divine than mortal bugs

[sinful nimbus]

Its peam

[silk dirge]

but higher being is a yes or no and hornet is no unless weaver queen ending

[muted lantern]

Mister mushroom is a higher being

[silk dirge]

that i can agree with

[sinful nimbus]

Lace's dialogue makes it pretty clear Hornet isn't on par with the higher beings

[muted lantern]

He exists above all others for a good bit after he rockets away

[ocean crown]

Also apparently they were at pharloom bc the same pillars in the abyss in hk are also in ss abyss

[muted lantern]

Ye arcane egg confirms it

The ancient civ was widespread

[ocean crown]

Potential global bc the abyss seems to go across the whole world but that is pure speculation

[muted lantern]

Which leads to more questions because if radiance didn't wipe them out what did, did they all give themselves to the void rain world mass ascension style?

[sinful nimbus]

RW had a cooler void dive tbh

[silk dirge]

possibly a mass void suicide of some kind

[sinful nimbus]

I was expecting at least some sort of spooky setpiece in the SS cutscene

[ocean crown]

Well we know the void can influence people because why else would the lighthouse bug turn that off

[silk dirge]

i think its possible they wanted to empty themselves out by being consumed by the void

[muted lantern]

I mean yeah it's pretty impossible to contest rws void with how cool it is

[ocean crown]

Bro isn’t afraid of tenticals? Ik what kinda man you are/j

[muted lantern]

I love void worms

[silk dirge]

trobbio wishes he could be as emo as ac

[sinful nimbus]

Well HK void was cool too

Silksong really drops the ball by making it generic evil universal death goop

[silk dirge]

i mean none of these voids are cool we dont know their temperature

[ocean crown]

I think the climb back to pharloom is so much better than the void climb in hk though

[silk dirge]

they arent really equivalents imo