sk-lore

[vestal swan]

The mask shard or gun blueprint?

[silk dirge]

with the mask shard

[vestal swan]

Ah

I didn't remember it having a name

[silk dirge]

i hope they add like an ice boss there or smth

[sterile jacinth]

That was a fun mask to get

[silk dirge]

you could do a cool fight based off of memory and it would fit in that area

[unreal estuary]

They need to explain if there's a similarity between the brightvein ice stuff and the crystals in crystal peak

cause the bright stuff sure as hell ain't regular ice

[vestal swan]

There's not?

[silk dirge]

brightvein is too cool to only have a mask shard

[sterile jacinth]

Besides some weaver tech and Fayhorn we don’t really get any lore about mount fay

[silk dirge]

fayforns might be the source of the frost according to the mr mushroom poem

[vestal swan]

Ice that can reform itself and crystals that can store energy and refract it into lasers that exists several regions apart

[silk dirge]

she is called the "heart of frost"

[unreal estuary]

There probably isn't but they're both crystals and both have special properties and while they're probably still disconnected I'd like some more lore info on Mount Fay

[sterile jacinth]

Also we have platforms that reform themselves in the same area

[vestal swan]

Ehhhhh why would she need the fat and feathers if she was the source of the cold? She just lives up there

[silk dirge]

idk shes just dripped out

[humble peak]

the magnetite? that also appears in the depths

[sterile jacinth]

Yea it is similar though

[humble peak]

ehh

[sterile jacinth]

...One can visit the past, but then memories become contradictory...
...When the call rings out again, will you let your previous actions cloud your vision?
...By claw, by voice... History always rises to meet us...
...Oh. Excuse Me.

I’m not sure if he’s talking to her or like directly to the player

[unreal estuary]

Fayforn memory boss fight

[silk dirge]

i mean you wouldnt need a memory for that

[humble peak]

don

t wanna hurt the birb tho

[unreal estuary]

No but going off the Mister Mushroom dialogue it would make the most sense if it was a memory thing

[silk dirge]

you could just say its petting her

[vestal swan]

Fluffier coat:

[silk dirge]

hornet wouldnt hurt fayforn

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah she’s fluffy

[unreal estuary]

If you beat fayforn you get a third fast travel method where you can go between potential DLC areas and Mount Fay

Anywhere with a Weaver tuner like at the top of the mountain

[sterile jacinth]

It’s been 5 MINUTES

[silk dirge]

yeah that was my idea

boat travel from pharloom bay would also be cool

[sterile jacinth]

Are they trying to say remember? They do reform when killed

[unreal estuary]

Every DLC brings new fast travel to one specific area

fuck Dreamgate give me one boat, one steel carraige and one ride on the fayforn

[vestal swan]

Maybe they remember the wrong shape and they are part of something else

[silk dirge]

what do we think pharloom bay dlc would have

probably lifeblood spire would make sense

[unreal estuary]

Probably

[sterile jacinth]

Snails?

[unreal estuary]

And maybe The Gloom?

[silk dirge]

im going all in on pharloom bag being the first dlc

[unreal estuary]

Nah they said the snails were too goofy for the game

[sterile jacinth]

When did they say that

[silk dirge]

that broken door in bilewater is suspicious af

[unreal estuary]

It's on the wiki when it talks about the cut snail village

[sterile jacinth]

Where?

[sterile jacinth]

Aww rats. That would have been cool 😔

[unreal estuary]

They could also add those squid-crab guys from the reveal trailer

the ones from the town that got cut

[sterile jacinth]

Interesting

[silk dirge]

theres a broken door right there thats like

in the exact place pharloom bay would be

[unreal estuary]

True, and with the weeds in Murglin it's literally just to the right

of bilewater

[sterile jacinth]

I wonder how it would avoid getting polluted by muck

[silk dirge]

it has salt water according to zyolotl so maybe the salt kills maggots

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah maybe

[unreal estuary]

Maybe, there's definitely something in the clean water that makes it different from regular water

Like in the Fleatopia cave, and where you find Shakra's mother, and in Murglin

[sterile jacinth]

I would assume bilewater used to be clean

[silk dirge]

i dont believe the gloom is coming back tho

[sterile jacinth]

I thought pale lake and the place you find shakras mother were just far enough away from the citadel that they didn’t get as affected

Oooh that’s true. Dead pilgrims there too

[silk dirge]

the gloom was never more than like a few rooms with not much in them according to acmi maps

[sterile jacinth]

Gloom? The mist?

[silk dirge]

nah

the gloom was an area shown in the first trailer

its were the abyss dinosaurs used to be

[sterile jacinth]

Ooh

[sinful nimbus]

Kinda like the abyss

[silk dirge]

i mean the abyss has important items

which the gloom probably didnt have

maybe it wouldve developed more idk

but bilewater is better

[sinful nimbus]

It has silk soar and uhhh ummmm

[silk dirge]

farsight

[sinful nimbus]

\🥀

[silk dirge]

lets not pretend like the abyss in hk had a lot either tho

[sinful nimbus]

The Abyss in HK had aura

[silk dirge]

maybe another entrance?

[sinful nimbus]

The Abyss in SS feels like its trying too hard with the Gloombeasts and whatnot

[arctic cliff]

Pharloom bay

[silk dirge]

the cut map doesnt seem like pharloom bay connected there tho

[arctic cliff]

It was connected

[silk dirge]

yeah like here it doesnt connect to the other door

[arctic cliff]

Right in there

[silk dirge]

oh it was

to the door in ducts?

[arctic cliff]

It’s not a full area

No

[silk dirge]

i meant the door in bilewater

[arctic cliff]

To bilewater

[sinful nimbus]

Kinda curious why the bay got cut

[arctic cliff]

The door

[silk dirge]

its probably dlc

im fairly certain

[sinful nimbus]

It would've filled the same niche Pilgrim's Rest does

[arctic cliff]

It was cut a month before release

[sinful nimbus]

But better because no one likes Pilgrim's Rest

[sinful nimbus]

I'm pretty sure it was cut in 2022

[silk dirge]

yeah i doubt they were cutting areas that late

[sinful nimbus]

Last seen on September 2021

[arctic cliff]

They did changes in “bay” code recently

[spark valve]

It’s fine

[silk dirge]

but the door in bilewater is very suspicious

[sinful nimbus]

its JUST fine

Barnacle Bay is more than fine

[spark valve]

But that’s like every town

[silk dirge]

idk why they would leave that door there if they werent planning anything

[sinful nimbus]

Well Bellhart and Songclave had more than one NPC and they were actually somewhat likeable

Unless Barnacle Bay was always only just going to have Lomm in which case that's disheartening

[silk dirge]

i mean are we certain barnacle bay was even going to be a town

it doesnt look like it had a quest board

ANOTHER ONE

@vestal swan

get their ass

[sinful nimbus]

I don't want to think Barnacle Bay was mid...

That's like learning Silk and Soul is maybe a repurposed Silksoul its heartbreaking

[silk dirge]

a what

[spark valve]

It’s not tho

[silk dirge]

what is a silksoul

i have never heard of them

silkhearts?

[sinful nimbus]

Silksoul was a mode that was promised to shake the gameplay up and make it harder

[silk dirge]

oh

im silly

[sinful nimbus]

It got replaced with Steel Soul because Team Cherry has no creativity and hates replayability

I wouldn't be surprised if giving all enemies the same 3 attacks and inflating their health pools is what they considered

[silk dirge]

terraria master mode be like

[sinful nimbus]

TRUE

[silk dirge]

expert mode was goated bc it actually had like boss ai changes but i think thats probably too much for a game like silksong

master mode is just boss stat increases

[sinful nimbus]

Silksong could've pulled it off

[silk dirge]

i mean maybe as a dlc i could see it

[sinful nimbus]

TC acting like they were 90 and on the verge of death with how they released Silksong so rushed 😭

[silk dirge]

but modified ais for 40+ bosses is a big ask

[dire sinew]

the ancient civilization was just the weavers right

[silk dirge]

no

[sterile jacinth]

ITS BEEN 10 MINUTES

[silk dirge]

lets not get into how simple terraria boss ais are compared to silksong which already has complex bosses

THATS 4 IN THE LAST 20 MINUTES LMAO

😭

[sterile jacinth]

What is going on

[silk dirge]

cogwork core is invading the server

[sinful nimbus]

Terraria combat is mid Silksong is a big step up

[silk dirge]

yeah

[sinful nimbus]

But it still has stinkers like Palestag that are wasting precious dev time that could be used on my glorious Silksoul mode

[silk dirge]

LMAO

if cogwork cleansers were a discord scam bot which type of scam would they post

[sinful nimbus]

Probably regular citadel propaganda

[sterile jacinth]

Probably something about climbing up to the citadel (you’re gonna get sent to underworks)

[silk dirge]

dlc tool bait

[twin dragon]

the abyss felt empty

Like no shit yeah

[silk dirge]

they should add eidolon wyrms to the abyss in both hk and silksong

[humble peak]

eidowhatnow?

I still want the Abyss expansion dlc dude
I want it so bad
Make it a full spinoff game or something idc
Hollow Knight: The Abyss

[silk dirge]

ancient civilization game would go hard

[humble peak]

I want to see the twisted horrors that lie beneath the shore!!

[sterile jacinth]

Ruined cities my beloved

[silk dirge]

the silksong boss fight

[obsidian owl]

As long as the weirdo dinausors of the sk abyss don't come back, I'm down for it

[humble peak]

Yeah those guys were kinda weird

[sinful nimbus]

Indie devs when they have to add an abyss area without eldritch worms

[silk dirge]

eldritch shark

[twin dragon]

tendrils

[sinful nimbus]

Gloombeasts would've gone hard in any other area

[vestal swan]

Everyone that's part of the citadel or the pilgrimage would post MLM

[sinful nimbus]

Also change their entries

[hard widget]

I call them the hams

Because they look like ham

[twin dragon]

In calamity we have: big ass deep sea fauna

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet writing "Do I almost feel fear?" ruins literally all possible immersion and tension its absolutely crazy how that line slipped through the cracks

[humble peak]

Why?

[twin dragon]

With a touch of ghastly power

[sinful nimbus]

it feels like an edgy 12 year old on tumblr wrote it 😭

[spark valve]

it's a goofy ass line that seems to be taking itself entirely seriously

[humble peak]

Weird take
Everyone's a critic smh

[sterile jacinth]

I don’t think Hornet thinks very fondly of things that are unnatural

[twin dragon]

Everyone's an expert except when they aren't

[hard widget]

I guess Hornet just doesn’t like ham

[foggy fractal]

we should cancel Hornet then

[twin dragon]

True

Boycott silksong, get us more zote character development

[spark valve]

there are better things to cancel hornet for

[sinful nimbus]

Also Silksong's abyss doesn't abide by 'Show don't tell' like HK's did

[hard widget]

One game per precept

[sinful nimbus]

Pure exposition slop

[foggy fractal]

nah not liking ham ??? too far Hornet...

[twin dragon]

Hk's abyss kinda did nothing

[hard widget]

^^^^^

[twin dragon]

SS's abyss, also did... nothing..

[hard widget]

hk’s abyss is my favorite area in the game but there is nothing to do there

[sterile jacinth]

I think it’s kinda mysterious and hostile on purpose

[sinful nimbus]

From a story perspective HK's abyss was quite an effective moment

[hard widget]

At least I can refight lace a ton

Number 3

[sterile jacinth]

You gotta be kidding me

[silk dirge]

WHAT THE FUCK

[sterile jacinth]

No there’s been more

[silk dirge]

THATS NUMBER 5

IN 30 MINUTES

[sinful nimbus]

Its also not trying to be like in your face scary like the gloombeasts

[twin dragon]

gloombeasts are meant to be scary??

I thought they'd be unnatural but that's about it

[vestal swan]

It's hilarious when you put them all together though because she's just an extreme edge lord, which is funny considering her siblings are the literal darkness at the bottom of the world. Fucking poser

[sinful nimbus]

Well gloom "Do I almost feel fear" sacs are supposed to be scary so I assume Gloombeasts are as well

[sterile jacinth]

It’s so far from any type of civilization

[sterile jacinth]

She was assigned to hunt them down lol

[vestal swan]

Those flying slabs of half butchered meat are more disgusting than scary

As far as we know she took that upon herself

[sterile jacinth]

She still killed her siblings lol

[vestal swan]

I'm just saying, her trying to be edgy while her sibling is literally a corpse monster from the abyss is hilarious

[lone folio]

Abyss is an amazing area and then silksongs abyss is like eh

[humble peak]

the gloomsacks are freaky more than anything

[vestal swan]

Her killing them does not really factor into the edginess

[humble peak]

but yeah i don't feel like the gloom dudes really fit the abyss super well

[lone folio]

I feel like the area could do without the gloom

[humble peak]

well
idk honestly
I didn't feel terribly about them at first

[vestal swan]

I don't like the existence of the gloom creatures at all, why are they symbiotic with the void

[sinful nimbus]

In HK

SS hornet doesn't have the same sauce

[humble peak]

yeah that part is weird
but ig it goes to show life can thrive anywhere

[vestal swan]

That's the point though the void is supposed to be anti life

[lone folio]

The big shadow creepers can stay but the gloom are just yuk

[twin dragon]

It might be just the fact that a slug that spits void fluid isn't the most usual thing you can see

[vestal swan]

That is the one place life is not supposed to thrive

[humble peak]

but yeah no i think there shouldn't have been anything more than the shadow chargers

[twin dragon]

And yet in both games we see depictions of fucking civilizations in the abyss

[sinful nimbus]

Does TC think they can just slap on whatever they want with no explanation and it will promote any speculation

[humble peak]

I mean
if they do they're right

[silk dirge]

shadow creepers ❤️

[strong marsh]

Guys is hornet void or not?

[abstract rivet]

very unusual question What are the confirmed LGBT characters in this game

[humble peak]

are you fucking with us rn

[abstract rivet]

I know Green Prince

[lone folio]

no

[twin dragon]

Gloom thingies seem depicted as barely alive

[abstract rivet]

Is grass blue?

[vestal swan]

In the first game they had soul totems and now we know that that was probably to cause a distraction and keep the void from attacking them, the weavers and the shamans of Pharloom had no such precautions and were still fucking with it????

[strong marsh]

Maybe

[abstract rivet]

chat

[foggy fractal]

yes

[lone folio]

But they are still too alive for the abyss

[twin dragon]

Shamans prob self explanatory, weavers had silk

[humble peak]

cogwork dancers :)

[obsidian owl]

No, father is Pale King and mother is Hera the Beast, a pharlid evolved Weaver (or descendent of Weavers), so no Void

[sterile jacinth]

In sk? I think the only thing that’s confirmed is green prince. Everyone else is up in the air

[vestal swan]

Nothing about shamans being safe is self-explanatory?

[silk dirge]

shadow chargers are cute tbh

[twin dragon]

Either way these civs used to apply void fluid on their body in some way

[twin dragon]

Are there shamans depicted in the abyss anywhere?

[abstract rivet]

I swear there are lesbians in this game

I just can’t prove it

[humble peak]

coaxed into fanon

[sterile jacinth]

I wouldn’t know where

[vestal swan]

The ones in the temple tell us that their family has been down there before but not in recent times

[slim tree]

Probably alot of the weavers lmao

[vestal swan]

They also know void spells

[sterile jacinth]

Unless they considered themselves sisters but I agree

[humble peak]

they do?

[humble peak]

no they don't

[twin dragon]

"temple"?

[sinful nimbus]

we are KILLING YOU

[vestal swan]

There's a bunch of characters with unconfirmed genders but that's not really saying much. We just have the gay princes

[lone folio]

She's not void at all

[slim tree]

they could but also how would they reproduce

[lone folio]

She's just Hornet

[sinful nimbus]

Queer rep is lacking in this game

[obsidian owl]

Where do these 10% come from? Did she inject herself another drug?

[sinful nimbus]

HK had an agender protagonist and 2 gay couples

[sterile jacinth]

They wouldn’t. Reproduction for weavers is difficult if not impossible

[silk dirge]

great conchflies will always be lesbian to me

[lone folio]

Where do you get this information from

[sterile jacinth]

Not to mention all weavers are female

[sinful nimbus]

SS has one gay couple that has a very obviously rushed and shoehorned in plotline

[vestal swan]

The place where you meet up with the shamans to cast a spell, holy shit shadow wizard money gang

[slim tree]

Then what’s with the quarter part weaver? And wasn’t herrah a weaver?

[obsidian owl]

Well, not impossible, but what's the source?

[twin dragon]

They don't say they've been DOWN there do they?

[slim tree]

I feel like ur kind of reaching here the green prince has a good story line

[vestal swan]

No she's not

[sterile jacinth]

Difficult. Not entirely impossible but weavers were nearly infertile. Also all weavers are female

[lone folio]

Okay the cocoon thing is odd but it's probably just hornets deadbody and maybe a bit of that regretty-void stuff jiji talks about

[vestal swan]

No they don't specifically say they have been down there, they say it's been a while since their family has been down there

[sinful nimbus]

Its fine but Verdania blasts you with the stench of rewrite

[sterile jacinth]

When you make a claim you gotta have the evidence to support it not demand evidence to the contrary

[lone folio]

Where is the evidence she is?

[slim tree]

I love that the weavers r all female like yes

[slim tree]

Wdym by that

[humble peak]

rewrite?

[lone folio]

One cocoon thing and that's it

[wintry flame]

kinda fucks me up how the snail shamans were obviously kinda there from the start.
The bell heremit's spiral staff is in front of him on the ground in bellhart and the spiral motifs present in the chapel are impossible to miss

[vestal swan]

You can stop shit posting or I can go mute you

[twin dragon]

They don't say shit abt that, they say that the void is their family's fixations

[sinful nimbus]

Well Verdania was supposed to be a real place in the present next to Moss Grotto

[sterile jacinth]

I interpreted that as hornets regret for dying. It’s not void

[sinful nimbus]

Old Hearts were also rewritten and so they're like grossly inconsistent with eachother (Grabbing the hearts is said to destroy their respective ecosystems but Verdania does the exact opposite)

[slim tree]

we were also meant to get an entire coral area, both of those were scrapped because they wanted to make out the citadel to be this overtaking force

[lone folio]

Upon death? You mean like the cocoon or the moment she dies?

[sinful nimbus]

Green Prince also ain't even relevant for the entire game until Act 3 😭 🙏

[humble peak]

lowkey why did they put Verdania where it is though
Like even if they were gonna cut it why not put it by
idk man

[sinful nimbus]

Yes that's also bad

They all blast you with the stench of rewrite

[lone folio]

Oh he got muted now I won't find out :/

[humble peak]

what is rewrite

[twin dragon]

Where is it stated

[limpid summit]

Green Prince was genuinely a blight on his own land lmao

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet says it to gilly

[sterile jacinth]

Part of why it is the way it is is probably pollution from bilewater

[slim tree]

i dont feel like its rewrite just team cherry changing something becauze it didnt fit the vision

[lone folio]

Oh now he's just dead now he's completely gone

[limpid summit]

Killing him restored prosperity

[sterile jacinth]

I agree. In away. His pain was affecting the land and not letting it regrow

[sinful nimbus]

That's... what a rewrite is

[vestal swan]

How do you pull up the dialogue from the shamans inside the temple

[limpid summit]

But that doesn’t actually make sense

[vestal swan]

I don't know if it's on a specific character or what

[limpid summit]

Idk it sounds sort of cool

[slim tree]

then i guess i had a different idea of what a rewrite is lol

i dont see a problem with it i actually like it more

[sinful nimbus]

What do you think a rewrite is 😭

[twin dragon]

search up snail shamans silksong

[vestal swan]

I mean with the wikibot, I'm not about to go through Google

[sterile jacinth]

I theorize that the bugs living in a land are tied to its wellbeing. Green princes partner died and so did his own will and that just killed Verdania even quicker

[limpid summit]

!wiki snail silksong

[lone folio]

I wonder if the reason why is because he regrets whatever he regrets and that's why verdania is just black and dull. It's heavily stained in his regrets and the moment we kill him those regrets start disappearing

[oak meadow]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Snail_Shamans_(Silksong)
Not the correct result? Use !wiki page snail silksong for a direct link.

Hollow Knight Wiki

Snail Shamans (Silksong)

The Snail Shamans are three NPCs in Hollow Knight: Silksong. They are a family of Snail Shamans who help Hornet create the Soul Snare during the Silk and Soul task.

[slim tree]

when developers change a part of the story that seems out of place after they changed it

[limpid summit]

Just scroll through the page powdered 💔

[sterile jacinth]

Exactly

[visual glacier]

That’s the correct page (I’m a wiki editor)

[twin dragon]

Stated it will, eventually, start regrowing again

[sinful nimbus]

What

Well they did literally change Verdania's lore after the release of the game too

[twin dragon]

One of the princes of verdania was dead for a while

[lone folio]

Kind of starting to enjoy the regrets thing

[sinful nimbus]

A patch added the detail that killing GP regrows Verdania

[visual glacier]

They also gave gurr a new ability

[limpid summit]

They did?

[visual glacier]

In the beta

[limpid summit]

His corpse disappears…we might be looking at a new Skarr King

[silk dirge]

i feel like what happened is silksong had weaver queen as the true ending and then they realized that would be really unsatisfying and then they needed to make act 3 hence why it feels disconnected

[limpid summit]

On top of everything Hornet is deposing the matriarchy to install a patriarchy

[twin dragon]

Apparently starpengu thinks that ripping the hearts out of the great rulers destroys their respective ecosystem

[visual glacier]

Did you guys see that sister splinters head sprouts

[silk dirge]

this is probably around the 2022 delay

[lone folio]

I never really liked it since I just thought it was some stupid piece of lore that doesn't make sense but ever since I stopped taking the information so litterly I am starting to like it

[gentle aspen]

I mean, we’re told it will do as much with Karmelita

[spark valve]

You mean… what’s stated to happen?

[foggy fractal]

hello joker

[twin dragon]

But it will regrow eventually

[gentle aspen]

Hi andy

[humble peak]

only because karmelita is explicitely the source of life in far fields

[limpid summit]

Yes

[twin dragon]

One of verdania's rulers was dead for a while before we kill gp

[gentle aspen]

I don’t think she ever asserted it will never regrow

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah :) bilewater residents own… bile also could have made the environment more hostile as a result

[limpid summit]

Why would removing the heart permanently salt the earth

[twin dragon]

And so was verdania

[vestal swan]

Hornet: I need only gain access, and an operator to assist. I will investigate the docks, and uncover the means.
Chapel Maid: You'd be the first in an age to dive so deep, Old One. That space below remains long unseen, even to our family.

[spark valve]

Something else can take its place

[gentle aspen]

plasmium upscale?

[slim tree]

I think act 3 feels disconnected on purpose since the whole kingdom is at threat of being turned to dust

[sterile jacinth]

It wouldn’t

[foggy fractal]

no pls 😭

[twin dragon]

That doesn't imply that they were there at some point

[gentle aspen]

that isn’t a good thing

[limpid summit]

I’m saying

[twin dragon]

Even if it does, it does slightly

[gentle aspen]

also that doesn’t make sense

[vestal swan]

It implies that their family has been down there before, but not themselves

[limpid summit]

The heart’s removal will lead the areas to die off but they will be reborn anew like everything else

[silk dirge]

if i was doing act 3 i would lean a lot into weavenest absolom

weaver void experiments have a lot of potential for cool shit

[spark valve]

But it’s not the same stuff coming back

[gentle aspen]

if I was doing act 3 there’d be no void

[limpid summit]

Close Fields

[spark valve]

Except for verdania because apparently consistency is for nerds

[gentle aspen]

it’d just be gms the faux final boss can be literally anything else

man make it a coked up silked up Romino

[twin dragon]

Verdania was already hella dead

[sterile jacinth]

It won’t be the same but it will regrow regardless

[gentle aspen]

I don’t even get the change

[twin dragon]

Never cook again

[limpid summit]

Verdania will be Verdania, Karak idk maybe TC will add a tiny water spout in a patch, Shellwood…uh

[gentle aspen]

like in karm’s case far fields’ll die eventually something else will replace it but like
why does taking that heart start the regrowth process

[limpid summit]

Maybe the surviving Splinters will make peace

[silk dirge]

anyone who wants to remove shadow creepers from silksong is not a friend of mine 🥀

[limpid summit]

Maybe Greyroot will just kill everyone

[gentle aspen]

it isn’t like green prince is sustaining any life by existing still

Verdania is deader than my love life

[sterile jacinth]

Grayroot is dead

[hard widget]

Can’t the little guys just be left alone

[twin dragon]

One of the rulers died though

[spark valve]

The heart isn’t even hornet’s only environmental destruction

[gentle aspen]

okay that doesn’t address anything I said

[twin dragon]

And GP doesn't seem to be able to do shit

[spark valve]

Doesn’t matter they weren’t the old heart

[sterile jacinth]

Karm has a lot more hope than green prince

[gentle aspen]

I know one of them died

[twin dragon]

and GP's a doomer too

[limpid summit]

It’s like how fungi grow easier on a dead tree than a dying one

[gentle aspen]

mister mushroom upscale?

[spark valve]

Previous rulers of Karak died too it doesn’t matter because the heart power transfers

[limpid summit]

So TRUE

[foggy fractal]

hell yeah !

mister mushroom SOLOES...

[limpid summit]

MMHB denials in shambles

[silk dirge]

mister mushroom next playable hk character

[hard widget]

Caps and shells may fall to dust

But mister mushroom whoops some ass

[twin dragon]

Do we even know there were "previous" rulers

[sinful nimbus]

I love morally gray protagonists that just do out of character evil things for no reason ❤️

[sterile jacinth]

Oooh interesting. I think even if that were true his pain and regret would be too strong to let that happen until he’s put to rest

[gentle aspen]

speaking of
are any of the old hearts dead?
I’d assume not
Karm’s still alive, we see watcher fossilized in the same way Khann is
GP clearly isn’t dead
Nyleth’s the only one I can’t note but Seth only loses memory and stops protecting after we kill her right?

[hard widget]

Yes, lore tablet in the coral tower calls khann the last ruler

[spark valve]

At water's source,
And coral's heart,
Our lord born last to rule.

[limpid summit]

Hornet…You became a mass murderer…for our sake.

[silk dirge]

i feel like lifeblood will be explained by the lifeblood spire

[spark valve]

randomly murdering an old lady for no reason is chill actually

[vestal swan]

Another piece of text somewhere also says that he's not the only one able to control the coral like he does

[twin dragon]

Nyleth seems pretty dead to me

[vestal swan]

Maybe the journal entry

[twin dragon]

We don't see her physically

[silk dirge]

i mean yeah the fat dudes in the arenas can also

[gentle aspen]

shellwood would be dead if nyleth were

[limpid summit]

Well the fat guys yeah

[twin dragon]

Seems to imply her memory is what remains

[vestal swan]

I forgot they exist ngl

[limpid summit]

Silksong genuinely has so many cool big dudes its big dude season

[spark valve]

it will be soon enough thanks to hornet deliberately doing environmental destruction for her own convenience
hornet is basically a fuckin fossil fuel exec

[sinful nimbus]

Gurr spinoff please

[silk dirge]

like the biggest bird crawfather 🗣️

[twin dragon]

Might live on as seth, i dont mean like, nyleth living on as seth, i mean that his hopes to actually protect the shrine help out

[sterile jacinth]

She might just be shellwoods protector. Her death (even if it’s just partial death) could have allowed sister splinter to infiltrate

[twin dragon]

Or the memory alone is holding it

[gentle aspen]

????

[spark valve]

there is no inheritor of nyleth's power because hornet takes it to use it as fuel for a spell

[gentle aspen]

No?

[vestal swan]

She made and was controlling it, it didn't get passed on especially not to the random bug she was controlling

[limpid summit]

“Hornet what the hell is that”
“It’s a mining golem, Sherma. I thought it could do some useful work here”

[twin dragon]

read

[foggy fractal]

Far tougher for being matched inside their encrusted domain. They must have lived their whole lives within their tower, to command it so.

here's the journal entry for them btw, could be read as just commanding other soldiers but we also see them literally summon coral like khann does

[limpid summit]

“We’ve got fifty more on the way”

[gentle aspen]

She’s not just its protector, she created the area

[hard widget]

Shellwood was spawned by Nyleth and kept peaceful by her, not maintained by her power

[limpid summit]

Yeah it’s totally the latter

[hard widget]

She created it but her power isn’t intrinsically what keeps shellwood going

[limpid summit]

Khann is just the best at it

[twin dragon]

Shellwood's been overtaken by the splinters now that nyleth's not there

[spark valve]

Her presence would once have maintained the wood's fragile order, allowing the safe passage of bugs across its branches.
this implies she is gone and her presence is no longer having that effect (which we see in sister splinter's presence)

[twin dragon]

Might be the first sign of decay

[spark valve]

Imposing old insect nesting in the heights of Shellwood. Her command of twig and branch ensured no pilgrim ever survived her territory.

This one lived long and fed much. The wood will be much safer for their slaying.

[twin dragon]

Plus we kinda know that nyleth was good with the citadel, not when gms was around

[vestal swan]

She would be the only heart that's actually dead already,but being on her deathbed would still make sense for her losing her grip on the woods

[twin dragon]

Much more recently

[twin dragon]

Similar case as Karmelita ffs

[hard widget]

Is Khann not dead??

[limpid summit]

Other other sleeping deep

[silk dirge]

khann isnt dead

[limpid summit]

I mean it’s like Unn and Moss Prophet sort of

[hard widget]

I mean that’s his body sitting on the chair right

[limpid summit]

Or even the Mosskin at large

[silk dirge]

is watcher on the edge the karak version of border patrol

[sterile jacinth]

He might as well be

[twin dragon]

Since her voice could help the skarrs against the haunting, now that she's frail and old the skarrs are the first ones to succumb

[sterile jacinth]

I think he’s more waiting for life to start anew

[limpid summit]

Khann is deeply asleep but we never try and hit him to wake him up…

[sinful nimbus]

Khaan seems to be hibernating because ???

[limpid summit]

I wonder if we could just wake him up as a summon

[silk dirge]

watcher looks different from all the other karak dudes

he has slight differences

[hard widget]

Yeah he’s old and stony

[twin dragon]

He's probably been handpicked

[spark valve]

the game does state they're husks but consistency is not their strong suit so

[twin dragon]

For a good reason

[hard widget]

I think his red tint got eroded off

[vestal swan]

When the crabs die they crumble so no

[sterile jacinth]

Dead coral is also gray or white

[limpid summit]

I miss when Khann was tan

They whitewashed him

[spark valve]

imagine if khann was actually in the game at a reasonable point in progression and in a real area

[vestal swan]

He would kick ass

[twin dragon]

colo of fools typa shit

[foggy fractal]

not mine though cuz I'm just that guy

[vestal swan]

Unfortunately for the bland story of FernGully as a video game the old hearts have to be old and die

[limpid summit]

Niche

[silk dirge]

old hearts would be so goated if you had to challenge them in the real world

[twin dragon]

calling it bland is crazy

[twin dragon]

We'd see quite a few changes in several areas

[silk dirge]

thats the point

i want coral forest back

[twin dragon]

deadass

[gentle aspen]

on god

[silk dirge]

even tho karak is cool

[foggy fractal]

@sterile jacinth comparison of 2019 trailer and release

[gentle aspen]

They can even keep the dead areas man

[sterile jacinth]

Ooooh

[gentle aspen]

just have the old hearts retreated to the last bastions man

[sinful nimbus]

We were so close to having the first indie game ever to have an alive kingdom

[gentle aspen]

glorpshit devs

[foggy fractal]

this is glorpshit ahh

[sinful nimbus]

Next metroidvania for sure guys

[limpid summit]

Should have kept the vibrancy with the yellowing

[gentle aspen]

fearless fox save us

[sterile jacinth]

I think it does look better but how he looks now is more striking and has more contrast. It’s more bold like Kahnn

[twin dragon]

It's alive

But limbless and lobotomized

[vestal swan]

Act 3 just serves to tell us that the things that we see are dead are already dead

[limpid summit]

Citadel is silent

[sinful nimbus]

"This kingdom is dead, or very nearly" \😭 \🙏

[gentle aspen]

not really

[silk dirge]

i think an alive kingdom probably is just a lot harder to develop probably

[spark valve]

fearless fox featuring the tin masters and the dirre troupe and aliveblood and

[sinful nimbus]

This dialogue made me jump out of my seat

[vestal swan]

Pharloom wasn't nearly as dead as the first games kingdom, but hornet sure fucking finished it off

[limpid summit]

If the haunting “twisting guts” tablet isn’t an exact science and we don’t know if the haunting works like infection in that way, would an ending in which Lace didn’t fall into the void save all haunted bugs

[gentle aspen]

hallownest was a corpse
pharloom was a twitching body that hornet accidentally covered in oil

[foggy fractal]

tar

[gentle aspen]

and set on fire

[foggy fractal]

uh oh

[sterile jacinth]

It was gonna die anyway. Hornet does kind of accelerate that but the whole goal of act 3 is fixing that

[silk dirge]

cover yourself in oil

[vestal swan]

Instead of unplugging the life support or breathing life into them she plugged her phone into the same outlet and electrocuted them

[limpid summit]

What you aren’t excited for jogmaster

[twin dragon]

Act 3's there to tell us that we can't js seal a god and literally nothing happens in consequence

[limpid summit]

But we literally could

[twin dragon]

Like no shit i guess, but the first game forgot to tell us that

[limpid summit]

If Lace was a little more on her game

[vestal swan]

The plan would have worked just fine if everybody involved wasn't an idiot

[gentle aspen]

it literally was going well until Lace fucked it up

and GMS wasn’t getting sealed she was gonna die

[twin dragon]

Entirety of act 3's hornet fighting her ass off in the void with gms

[gentle aspen]

i’m aware

[twin dragon]

to not get slurped up

[gentle aspen]

the plan would have worked had lace not intervened

[vestal swan]

Just because she stops the root of the problem doesn't mean she wasn't part of it to begin with

[gentle aspen]

again doesn’t contradict what I said

[sterile jacinth]

Hornet would have died

[vestal swan]

But it would have worked

[gentle aspen]

good

[visual glacier]

Pharloom would’ve been saved tho

[sterile jacinth]

She would have been drafted to the void with gms

[twin dragon]

Technically, yeah?

[vestal swan]

As long as eating hornet didn't give GMS enough power boost to escape and do the same shit again

[limpid summit]

Hornet might have died even so Lace could have just done what she always does and swift stepped away

[twin dragon]

Though not sure if gms could bind hornet before getting dragged in

[limpid summit]

Instead of falling into the yawning black portal like an idiot

[twin dragon]

which would've been a big big problem

[vestal swan]

She managed to pull the cocoon down and reform it

[twin dragon]

She straight up made another one afaik

She barely has any silk left lmfao

[twin dragon]

And i mean if lace hadn't intervened

[vestal swan]

Yeah, hornet was still going to die either way

But GMS was less certain if she got her hands on hornet

[twin dragon]

That's for sure

But the ever slight chance that pharloom would've been turbo cooked

[elder rune]

“It is a difficult thing to explain simply... A test was needed, to ensure my strength before a greater challenge soon to come.”

This feels really OOC for Hornet, like obviously she’s not a shining paragon of virtue, but deciding to bring ruin to an entire ecosystem for several lifetimes just because “Lol I needed to test my strength lmao, sucks to suck!” if you killed Green Prince beforehand (Which is itself controversial even if Green Prince was likely to rot away anyways) makes Hornet seem less like Hornet and more like a Viltrumite.

[vestal swan]

A lot of shit feels out of character in this game

Slab, any optional heart kill, extremely edgelord dialogue

[elder rune]

Ehh not really, it’s only that & the whole Lost Verdania quest (Where Hornet decides to be an arse to the Green Prince and imply that he’s a narcissist for dating someone who looks similar to him) where Hornet is OOC.

[limpid summit]

I think it’s genuinely bad written dialogue she could literally have just made up some stuff about “mercy kill” because look at Karm lmao

Why did she have to grandstand like that

A lot of her lifeblood dialogue is ooc too

[elder rune]

Yeah that would have been far better, since it was heavily implied that Karmelita had all but one of her limbs in the grave by the time Hornet visited her.

[limpid summit]

“I will not stand the sentinel for another dying land.”
“Pharloom shall quickly learn the curse of this substance.”

[sinful nimbus]

Add Hornet to the villains wiki atp

[elder rune]

I mean hell, Hornet’s disdain for the Fly Wardens is kinda understandable (They kidnapped & stripped her of all of her belongings + are blatantly cruel wardens to the prisoners who don’t deserve to be tortured) and even then she’s still cordial to the Broodling.

[silk dirge]

oh hell nah not this discussion

😭

[twin dragon]

Diddler flies

[visual glacier]

She has those entries even if you skip the escape sequence and don’t do it

[elder rune]

Yeah, but they are still abusive wardens cruelly torturing other bugs.

[twin dragon]

I mean hornet murdered vessels in the first game

[visual glacier]

It’s their punishment for a crime against the citadel+they are haunted

[twin dragon]

I dont think she was this heroic in the 1st place

[elder rune]

By no means am I defending Hornet’s speciesism towards the flies btw

[sinful nimbus]

Are you fr

"The slaves are bad on a cultural level therefore she's justified in advocating for eugenics"

[spark valve]

yes you are

[ember river]

Why is it every time that I look into this channel there's this exact conversation

[limpid summit]

People actually don’t talk about this
She’s talking about destroying the ghosts of the past but all she does is pick off defenseless babies
Go fight soul master or traitor lord you useless bum

[ember river]

Hornet is also much more pragmatic than heroic, and she's been like that since the first game

[twin dragon]

Deadass

[sinful nimbus]

Murdering vessels was for the greater good though

Hornet's actions in SS are just straight up indefensible

[limpid summit]

Ergo she was never morally good
But she was never racist, a bystander or one to pick a useless fight

[spark valve]

murdering an old woman in cold blood for no reason

[limpid summit]

Yes but she took the easiest path to preserve it

[twin dragon]

So the ends justify the means to you?

[elder rune]

She’s not justified for supporting eugenics or being speciesist (And indeed the flies are victims of the Citadel too!), I’m just saying she had her reasons for hating the cruel wardens who may or may not have canonically stripped her of her belongings

[limpid summit]

Why wouldn’t she kill the stronger infected

[silk dirge]

whenever this discussion comes up id like to remind everyone the mystery icon will fix all

[spark valve]

ends can justify means that's like
the most basic concept in morality

[ember river]

Again, why is this conversation happening again

[elder rune]

Wait, what happened?

[sinful nimbus]

In the event that it minimizes suffering yes

[silk dirge]

people arent believing the mystery icon in enough

[ember river]

They are saying the same shit about the wardenfly entries

As they have for the past two months

[sinful nimbus]

The alternative is risking the infection breaking out sooner which is bad news

[twin dragon]

She straight up chose to murder them, not just test them and leave them be

[spark valve]

a test isn't a different thing have you played the first game

you probably should if you want to discuss it

[silk dirge]

team cherry is playing 4d chess and everyone in this channel including me is on the 2nd dimensional plane

[twin dragon]

Been a long while since that

[elder rune]

Then I wholeheartedly apologize for being redundant, especially since my initial discussion was about Hornet’s Act 3 actions against the Green Prince and Karmelita.

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet fighting the vessels is the test

[silk dirge]

the mystery icon will reveal all

[sinful nimbus]

Once one actually beats her she gives em some guidance to the final exam so to speak

[silk dirge]

it starts with pharloom bay dlc

[twin dragon]

So was murdering them necessary?

[spark valve]

yes

[visual glacier]

Yeah

[sinful nimbus]

If they are not killed they continue on their journey which risks worsening the situation

[ember river]

Their kingdoms were already ruined. The green prince one kinda comes out of nowhere, but Karmelita kinda agrees to the ritual

[visual glacier]

If they freed thk and didn’t kill it then it would leave hallownest vulnerable to another infection wave

[limpid summit]

Do you think she beat the imprint out of the shades too

[ember river]

It's the only shot at saving the kingdom

[twin dragon]

Might aswell murder every single bug because they hold belief in the radiance

[visual glacier]

They probably returned to the abyss.

[ember river]

I wonder if there's any changes to the karmelita heart scene once you already got the flower

[limpid summit]

There is

It’s very stupid

[spark valve]

"It is a difficult thing to explain simply..."
me when the cops ask me why I tore out an old woman's heart for no reason

[vestal swan]

Did you play the first game...

[limpid summit]

The justification for her killing Karmelita is that she needed to test her strength before Lost Lace

Not some mercy killing or anything

[spark valve]

the... zombies?

[elder rune]

Yea, and it makes Hornet seem like some unhinged Viltrumite-like murderhobo.

[silk dirge]

a use for the final heart is coming you just need to believe the mystery icon

[ember river]

Kinda underwhelming but okay

[limpid summit]

Stand ready for my arrival Wyrm

[ember river]

I love when games consider all possibilities

[silk dirge]

mementos are not the useless items they seem

[ember river]

What mystery icon

[elder rune]

Hornet W

[silk dirge]

final steam badge

[spark valve]

they could've considered it a bit longer to make hornet not come off as evil as she does but whatever

[twin dragon]

Or, yk, theyre vessels for it to manifest physically

[ember river]

Tammo it's literally you and Starpengu bringing the same shit over again

[silk dirge]

the final steam badge has a very similar design to a cut all mementos achievement

[silk dirge]

there is something going on here

[vestal swan]

I'm taking that as a no

[limpid summit]

Don’t forget me Apple egg!

[twin dragon]

I assume you played as zote

[visual glacier]

The bugs didn’t have control over getting infected other than the traitor mantis

[ember river]

Haven't seen you spam the exact same sentences about the fly entries for an entire month but I can include you there if you take pride in that for some reason

[spark valve]

chill it's just a game

[ember river]

Many strong bugs do have control

[visual glacier]

I mean the ones that got infected

[limpid summit]

I actually have 🗣️🗣️🗣️ but it doesn’t matter that much

[spark valve]

they had as much control all the infected succumb voluntarily that's how infection works

[limpid summit]

Flawed protagonist fans when we get a flawed protagonist but they don’t like the flaws

[twin dragon]

Isnt hornet killing the rulers for the "greater good" anyways?

[ember river]

I'm more against the "exact same sentence over a month" part

[spark valve]

when the protagonist just sucks but is not framed as flawed that's not good writing

[silk dirge]

i refuse to believe anything but a deeper connection going on here

[visual glacier]

It’s cut content stop worrying about it bro

[silk dirge]

the lack of a rune harp badge makes no sense

[limpid summit]

She gains her vestigial wings I’ve literally been saying

[silk dirge]

PLEASE

[spark valve]

the karmelita dialogue goes from hornet admitting she had no reason to murder that old lady actually to what's presumably meant to be some sort of inspirational slop to gilly

[silk dirge]

triple jump

[elder rune]

There’s a difference between being flawed (Hornet being emotionally closed off and being speciesist against the flies, who are victims of the Citadel) and being a deranged psycho (Killing Karmelita after already killing Green Prince and bringing ruin to the Far Fields because she needed to “test” herself)

[silk dirge]

i will worry about it

[sinful nimbus]

bro aint familiar with the #ss-lore game

[silk dirge]

i dont believe its as cut as it seems

[twin dragon]

Has he played act 3?

[limpid summit]

Yes I lean towards the latter I was joking

[ember river]

I've been here for as long as you

[sinful nimbus]

Slabfly discussion is the meta

[ember river]

Yeah sadly

[limpid summit]

Her flaws are not well written

[gentle aspen]

They’re literally referring to act 3 dialogue what are you on about

[ember river]

Her flaws aren't well written because they are seldom acknowledged at all

[spark valve]

hk fans can't read joker you know that

[silk dirge]

people for some reason have no issue ignoring the lack of a rune harp steam badge

[elder rune]

No matter the discussion, it seems to always lean to the Slab…

[visual glacier]

Who cares

[limpid summit]

That’s exactly what the game is missing a rune harp steam badge

[visual glacier]

It’s cut content

[limpid summit]

Hey I care

[spark valve]

the slab is an egregious example of hornet being bad and it not being framed as a flaw by the story so yeah
when people make that criticism slab is going to come up
shocking

[sinful nimbus]

I've been hating since before the game was out actually

[ember river]

Because any discussion about the hornet game will inevitably bring up Hornet and someone will call her a racist

[visual glacier]

There’s plenty of cut content

[twin dragon]

Clear from the very start that she needs her heart so she can retrieve the everbloom with some shaman bs spell

[silk dirge]

a rune harp steam badge is cut content?

[elder rune]

Honestly wanna discuss something about the Slab outside of the flies, so what kind of horrible punishments do you think were inflicted upon the prisoners or “repentant,” specifically what did they mean by swallowing?

[limpid summit]

As they should - Hornet needs to know that is not okay!

[visual glacier]

If it’s not there it’s cut

[gentle aspen]

I don’t think you read what he said

[spark valve]

oh so you haven't played act 3

[gentle aspen]

this is if you get her as your fourth heart

[silk dirge]

rune harps are a literal relic in silksong

[gentle aspen]

As in totally unnecessary

[visual glacier]

The achievement is cut

[sinful nimbus]

Could be being fed to Broodmother who is brought food by the other flies

[limpid summit]

Well it depends on if you think they were swallowed or were forced to swallow things

[silk dirge]

then why use the icon there

[twin dragon]

Tbf yeah i agree

[silk dirge]

make it consistent with hk

[limpid summit]

Imagine if the flies just made them eat fly goop

[twin dragon]

She has no reason to

[gentle aspen]

fed to broodmother probably

[ember river]

So there's an edge case where you can kill the green prince instead of karmelita to get the third heart, so then karmelita is just there without any reason to die and the devs still needed to implement an edge case dialogue

Which kinda comes off as sociopathic

[silk dirge]

have a rune harp steam badge to push everbloom to be the final steam badge

[visual glacier]

Based on the broodling dialogue yeah

[silk dirge]

this would match the way hk does it

[sinful nimbus]

I think the best fix for the Karmelita heart thing is to add a use for the 4th heart instead of just slapping it on your desk like a psycho

[ember river]

Honestly I agree

[twin dragon]

Ik ik, i js always do clover dancers last

[silk dirge]

if you believe it it will happen

[spark valve]

getting eaten
getting chained
getting 'silenced'
widow got mutilated and shit but that's probably a one off

[silk dirge]

🙏

[twin dragon]

I doubt its canon anyways

[ember river]

I was kinda flabbergasted at Hornet just displaying a beating, severed heart as a trophy

[gentle aspen]

Give us hornet’s wp drip team cherry

[ember river]

Why would the game not be canon?

[silk dirge]

cloak options dlc

[twin dragon]

Sealed siblings aint canon now

[visual glacier]

It is

It’s just non canon to the Silksong continuation of the story

[ember river]

Ending canonicity is a boring way to look at things

[limpid summit]

Sealed siblings is its own canon pathway that leads to the death of everything in Hallownest and no Silksong

[ember river]

Canon in general is just restricting a story

[twin dragon]

Is steel soul canon?

[limpid summit]

Steel soul is equally canon

[spark valve]

the good ending

[visual glacier]

Both steel soul and normal mode are canon

[sinful nimbus]

How does Hornet sleep with the constant sound of Karmelita's heart & the Lifeblood Gland beating, a baby crying its lungs out, and Mizello's last surgery playing on repeat at night? She must not be mentally stable.

[ember river]

The games are canon. Goku, however, is NOT canon to the hollow knight universe for example

[limpid summit]

The permadeath aspect is more canon but Ellina the oou narrator meets both Jiji and Jinn

[twin dragon]

No idea what steel soul implies though

[ember river]

That's how canon is meant to be used damn it

[visual glacier]

We will find out more, that’s confirmed

[foggy fractal]

he... he isn't ? :C

[silk dirge]

real people have moved past mizellos surgery and now listen to the vaultkeeper propaganda cylinder

[gentle aspen]

I mean
He technically is

[foggy fractal]

oh hell yeah !

[ember river]

In this universe he wasn't born so Vegeta is actually the strongest Saiyan

[twin dragon]

Kinda weird how they added goku to act 5, kinda says otherwise...

[sinful nimbus]

When they pass the aux cord and you start playing the Citadel's holy theme of salvation 🗣️ 🥶

[spark valve]

She thinks it’s fun to traumatize the neighbors

[silk dirge]

tipp and pill deserve it

[visual glacier]

Broly?

[silk dirge]

no one else does tho

[hard widget]

Melatonin

[elder rune]

Or perhaps Hornet says: “It is a difficult thing to explain simply... her strength and vitality had already been fading, and regardless of my needle felling her or not, she was not long for passing” Or something more eloquent than that?

[spark valve]

Drive them out of bellhart and into the void threads

[silk dirge]

liquid lacquer 😭

[twin dragon]

Shes sleep deprived thats how

[sinful nimbus]

That's better but still kinda 🥴 yknow

[silk dirge]

who voiced tipp and pill

[foggy fractal]

why is the surface blue,,, what are you BLUE...

[visual glacier]

Tipp and pill are based

[gentle aspen]

me

[silk dirge]

give me your best skimenenibo

[gentle aspen]

no

[visual glacier]

They pay hornet hundreds of rosaries to deliver packages (remember that minimum wage is one rosary)

[twin dragon]

Karmelita kinda enables it yeah

[ember river]

A bellhome with a craw nest with craws flying in and out, with a gramophone playing a disturbing surgery to everyone in town, displaying trinkets of various civilizations and a magical, still beating living severed heart
I bet my ass they are throwing her with Yarnaby

[silk dirge]

yeah but its pain

[twin dragon]

Though issues arise with clover dancers

Hornet just hops into bros dream, looks around ,kills shit, gets confronted and kills more shit

[silk dirge]

tipp and pill are guilty of the sin of liquid lacquer

[ember river]

The fact that what hearts exactly are/do is pretty much completely unexplored doesn't help either

For example, if we keep a heart, does that preserve the core essence of that tribe? Can it be restored somehow?

Would it last forever in that case?

[twin dragon]

Most likely the will and soul of a ruler in some way or form

[olive quartz]

question, is the haunting considered a (relatively) recent consequence of GMS' stirring, or was pharloom haunted (as in, GMS controlled the minds of all lesser bugs) prior to the weavers trapping her

[ember river]

It's a very recent occurence

[twin dragon]

I mean we see it extracted from "rulers"

[ember river]

It's stated to be the essence of the tribe, and the rulers in question its last wielders

[fervent light]

1000 of her siblings died when she was a kid and she spent aeons protecting the corpse of her home i would be more surprised if she was stable

[twin dragon]

No idea if we can rip it out from non rulers

[ember river]

Or something along those lines

[elder rune]

I feel bad for Crull & Benjin, they really didn’t deserve to be crushed under rubble. If only there were a way for Hornet to convince the two to migrate to Belhart, since they’d not only be alive but have food far tastier than Muckroaches!

[silk dirge]

loam should be able to be moved to fleatopia

[olive quartz]

put another way, does the haunting operate like the infection in HK where it is a consequence of resisting a higher being, or is it a fundamental power of GMS like how PK has a beacon

[silk dirge]

free my boy

[twin dragon]

So ripping it out allows for a reboot

[steel turret]

Aren’t those the tools who charged Hornet rosaries to pay for lifesaving surgery?

[ember river]

I doubt that aeons passed since the fall of hallownest and HK, or from HK and Silksong

[twin dragon]

As that essence is gone, another one takes its place

[ember river]

We don't really know

Because we don't know much about hearts other than they are powerful

[twin dragon]

The gp corpse verdania regrow thingy

[elder rune]

I mean, it’s relatively cheap by Silksong standards.

[twin dragon]

And hornet says after or before killing Karme that far fields would suffer a collapse

[ember river]

So americans?

[steel turret]

Exactly

[elder rune]

And besides, the steel spines are likely incredibly valuable, especially in an environment as dangerous as Sinners Road!

[ember river]

Well, her people were all haunted

There wasn't a skarr kingdom anymore

[twin dragon]

She was the last one basically

[sterile jacinth]

Hunters march would have fallen anyway

[ember river]

Not the last one but the tribe was in ruin

[twin dragon]

But she still held some beliefs for her children

[twin dragon]

Almost yk

[elder rune]

Say, what will happen to those that have been Haunted once GMS’s threads are gone?

[ember river]

It's unclear

They may survive if it's somewhat recent

[twin dragon]

Verdania was long gone, and gp wasnt very optimistic about it

[steel turret]

Hornet already got them free food

[twin dragon]

As if he was the one holding its regrow back

[elder rune]

I imagine a whole lot more bugs would be alive since they aren’t horrifically mutated like what happened to some of HK’s infected.

[ember river]

Where are you getting that from

[elder rune]

And they gave her tacks, which is an equivalent exchange.

[sterile jacinth]

That was my interpretation too

[twin dragon]

Im js assuming rn, the regrow begins after he dies

[unique tangle]

They will be eventually taken over by the unchecked plasmium plague that’s spreading across pharloom

[twin dragon]

Even if verdania as a whole was long dead, he remained with whats left

[sterile jacinth]

Once he’s gone his pain and regret is also gone and no longer poisoning the land allowing for regrowth

[ember river]

Heart lore is just too weird

[twin dragon]

Which is basically nothing eithef

[fervent light]

aeons is an expression of how long it was, not a literal measurement of time

[ember river]

An aeon is an actual measure of time, an extremely large one in fact

[elder rune]

I really can’t see Hornet go “I don’t care for these people actually” and letting them be killed by Plasmium’ified wildlife. If she were actually that callous she wouldn’t have bothered trying to stop the Void and would just go back to whatever replaced Hallownest.

[olive quartz]

are you using the astronomy definition of a billion years

[ember river]

Saying "it's been years" is common, "it's been aeons" is VERY superlative

[sterile jacinth]

Postgame dlc where she and lace need to stop the lifeblood

[unique tangle]

Tell that to hornet after she completes “advanced alchemy” without a care in the world about what plasmium is doing to the local fauna and flora

[ember river]

Even if you use it as some undefined timespan it's still an extremely long time

[olive quartz]

team cherry very clearly did not intend for hornet to have lived for a billion years. they are using aeons in the metaphorical sense—"so long the years have not been numbered"

[spark valve]

doesn't even warn him

[sterile jacinth]

This is just about semantics. I’m sure they used it as a description of a very long time

[ember river]

She went to stop the void because she felt indebted to the people she sentenced to such a fate

[sterile jacinth]

The spread of plasmium would also be partially her fault

[ember river]

Eh, Zango was the one injecting bugs

Hornet was collecting samples for a presumably good cause

[olive quartz]

that's what she tells herself, but i suspect from the rest of hornet's characterization that she will be finding reasons to help the people of pharloom for a very long time

[elder rune]

To be entirely fair, Zylotol was already singing his utmost high praises of Plasmium, so I doubt he would’ve cared to listen to Hornet’s advice, especially once he becomes dependent on the substance.

[spark valve]

doesn't mean she had to help him lmao

[sterile jacinth]

She hastened its spread

[unique tangle]

Hornet: “Oh this plasmium infection looks kinda bad”
Zylotol: “Please help me further my research so that eventually everyone will understand the greatness of plasmium”
Hornet: “Sure why not”

[olive quartz]

she readily admits that hallownest has nothing left for her but an ill-defined sense of duty

[spark valve]

it wouldn't even have been hard to just have hornet not know bad shit would happen but no tc had to then establish that she knew it would happen all along and helped zango anyways for reasons

[fervent light]

okay

[ember river]

Zango is the dead guy who revives

[steel turret]

Same reason I don’t think there’s gonna be a hallownest dlc

[ember river]

Zylotol is the deranged alchemist

[steel turret]

The kingdom’s dead there’s nothing to go back for

[spark valve]

aeon is used figuratively constantly pretending not to understand it is just pedantic

[foggy fractal]

sounds like mango

[ember river]

I hadn't seen it used figuratively that often, and even when I did it still meant an overwhelmingly large amount of time but whatever

[olive quartz]

it was, indeed, an overwhelmingly large amount of time

[ember river]

It comes off as a weird and overly specific word to use to me

[ember river]

We don't have a scale of how much time elapsed

[spark valve]

it really isn't

it has been a very very long time

[unique tangle]

First time Hornet helps him can be excused with ignorance
Second time she helps him after the plasmium plague has already started has to be malicious

[spark valve]

in fact the game uses the word aeon

[olive quartz]

this is entirely on you. would 'centuries' be any less specific? 'millennia' ?

[spark valve]

except journal entries indicate she wasn't actually ignorant

[elder rune]

I’m sure they’re are some groups of people existing even after Hallownest’s death, since it’s kinda a big theme that there exist many groups outside of the Kingdom of Hallownest itself, and this is in addition to several folk arriving to Hallownest (Cloth & Tiso being the most notable).

[olive quartz]

what other word would be used for a poetically undefined vast span of time

[spark valve]

That Che's love would know her partner's heart even aeon past.

[unique tangle]

Ok she’s just a bad person then

Hornet wants to see the world consumed in plasmium

[ember river]

Those aren't even used figuratively, I just don't usually see 'aeon' thrown around in normal conversations, calm down holy shit

[elder rune]

Anyways outside of that IDK why Hornet decides to help Zylotol, especially after the Wormway’s goes full Lifeblood drug dependence mode?

[sinful nimbus]

Pharloom shall quickly learn the curse of this substance \🥶

[foggy fractal]

so tuff

[ember river]

That was ominous coming from someone who helped the guy spreading it

[spark valve]

for her own benefit presumably because that's her priority most of the time apparently

[silk dirge]

probably a lot of zyolotl stuff is placeholder for when lifeblood spire gets implemented

[sinful nimbus]

She also borderline says Zango deserved it lmao

[silk dirge]

i mean hes an ass boss so idc what happens to him lol

i learned the gimmick and he was still dumb

[foggy fractal]

y'all hear that ominous bell tolling ? no ? just me ?

[elder rune]

Honestly, yeah it’s probably that, but it is funny that Hornet actively supports Zylotol in doing something she knows is bad and she herself personally doesn’t like.

[ember river]

At the start I guess she thought it was more benign investigation, or hadn't realized what "plasmium" exactly was yet

[olive quartz]

literally nobody in hollow knight talks like a normal conversation lol. everyone in both games has their own flavor of autism

[silk dirge]

if the first dlc isnt pharloom bay + lifeblood spire i will be surprised

[elder rune]

God it would be so cool having new areas to explore!

[sinful nimbus]

Aeon seems weird because its an archaic spelling

Eon isn't that weird of a word to use

[silk dirge]

code modifications with something labeled "bay" have been spotted + the suspicious door in bilewater

[ember river]

At the end she either expected some personal benefit or kinda had some empty hopes in that zylotol would revert the damage

[spark valve]

isn't it the au version still

[sinful nimbus]

tc are AUSTRALIAN?

[ember river]

Are we gonna get lifeblood DLC then troupe DLC then godmaster DLC AGAIN?

[silk dirge]

and then zylotol mentions his master discovered plasmium at pharloom bay

[spark valve]

better excuse for the dialect than being british

[silk dirge]

never ask team cherry what the drifters cloak is called in code

[ember river]

Wait, zylotol has a master?

[silk dirge]

he mentions it once

[sinful nimbus]

BROLLY???

[unique tangle]

Need a brolly today?

[elder rune]

Anyways, I have my doubts on Zylotol being “brainwashed” or “controlled” by Plasmium, since he was already singing its high praises long before Hornet arrived.

[earnest marsh]

Brolly lmao

[silk dirge]

"Plasmium was discovered by my master at the farthest edge of Pharloom, hidden deep in salt-stricken waters."

[foggy fractal]

so broly from dragon ball is canon...

wait does that mean GOKU IS TOO

[ember river]

I see...

[spark valve]

it probably just works like infection

[earnest marsh]

It means umbrella, and the Seamstress' room is called Bone_East_Umbrella in code as well

[sinful nimbus]

Why doesn't Hornet just tell Tylenol to cut it out

[ember river]

No, Goku specifically is not canon to hollow knight

[foggy fractal]

FUCK

[spark valve]

because she thinks she can get something out of it

[unique tangle]

And soon plasmium will become the act 4 of silksong

[ember river]

The rest of Dragon Ball is

Cell is canon for example

[unique tangle]

Plasloom

[elder rune]

Plasmium seems like a more “feral” or “natural” form of the infection, mutating life but not actually brainwashing whatever consumes it outside of your more typical fantasy drug addiction.

[ember river]

It seems to be the product of a higher being all of its own

[elder rune]

Yeah, but it doesn’t seem the higher being really cares for worshippers or slaves to work for it, only for bugs to keep consuming the substance.

[sinful nimbus]

If they stuck to the pollution theme Act 3 should've been Pharloom fighting back at Pharloom and Hornet for being complacent in destroying ecosystems smh

[ember river]

It'd be cool if it was like the remnants of a long dead god and its effects were just what it naturally did

[spark valve]

the pollution thing was a side thing it's the cycles of oppression they should've stuck with by bringing fs back as the true final boss

[sinful nimbus]

See this is peak writing right here

[silk dirge]

find out in a few months

or whenever the first dlc releases

[stiff furnace]

wsg guys

[elder rune]

Shortest Silksong Chinese dub text:

[silk dirge]

since its looking likely that will be the first dlc im curious what we might get after it

[ember river]

I swear to god if lifeblood is the first DLC and not the city of steel and we don't get proper lore on it I'll be terribly disappointed

[sinful nimbus]

TRUE

[silk dirge]

steel city is coming later probably

[silk dirge]

itll be lifeblood + pharloom bay

[elder rune]

Steel City SOON™️

[stiff furnace]

nah what will be the first dlc?

like there is so man options bro

[elder rune]

Bell Beast armor DLC

[silk dirge]

likely pharloom bay + plasmium/lifeblood

[stiff furnace]

maybe

[stiff furnace]

MAYBE

[silk dirge]

steel city is probably going to be like late 2026 at the earliest

steel city would be an entire ass new kingdom

[sinful nimbus]

mfw the dies irae motif is foreshadowing something completely unrelated to the religious plot 💔

[stiff furnace]

yeah prob

[ember river]

The first DLC will be fixing the damn timeline and using proper nouns to refer to each era

[silk dirge]

pharloom bay is just one new area

[stiff furnace]

nah what if they made the next game about lace

[ember river]

Imagine if it's just an exact copy of bellhart but made of steel instead of bronze

[stiff furnace]

or like phantom

[ember river]

Quite hard since Phantom is DEAD! 😃

[elder rune]

I don’t feel like waiting a decade with almost zero updates or news and lots of people going completely insane for additional Hollow Knight content. I wasn’t even part of the fandom when everyone gradually lost their minds but I absolutely know how bad it was.

[sinful nimbus]

It wasn't that bad

[stiff furnace]

but its BEFORE silksong

[sinful nimbus]

The wait for silksong was actually funner than the game

[elder rune]

It Was that bad and I will not allow for that historical revisionism!

[spark valve]

back when there was hope for coral gorge and the ant city

[olive stag]

no, the game was marginally better, but the wait was fine

[ember river]

So it's just a rhythm game on an organ?

[sweet shale]

why does bro hate sk so much

[sinful nimbus]

and verdania and barnacle bay and the prospect that the game would be replayable

[frosty beacon]

is it more appropriate to refer to the "Healing Blue Liquid"™ as Plasmium or Lifeblood

[olive stag]

it was not

[stiff furnace]

basically

[elder rune]

If it isn’t perfect or old (Retro) then it sucks and will always be inferior or smth idk. /s

[foggy fractal]

also they removed the bag pipers for some gosh darn reason, hope they come back in a dlc...

[sinful nimbus]

Back when everyone was like "no guys puppet master higher being is way too obvious to be the entire thing"

[ember river]

My question is why does she keep engaging in silksong discussion if she hates the game

[olive stag]

it's not meant to be replayable buddy, the roguelikes with a bajillion upgrades have eaten your brains

[elder rune]

Either name’s alright.

[silk dirge]

barnacle bay is literally being developed rn probably

[stiff furnace]

BRO no one in my school knows what "silksong" is and i kinda feel bad for this generation

[ember river]

Roguelikes are fun and I will not accept this slander

By the way Nuclear Throne #100 update dropping in december

[silk dirge]

people found team cherry modified something labelled "bay" in the code

in a patch

[sinful nimbus]

The first HK had far more replayability due to its better map design so it is quite a downgrade in this regard

[elder rune]

Ironically am replaying Silksong and having the time of my life testing out crests and Red Tools/Silk Skills I did not use as much (Particularly Beast and Witch)

[sinful nimbus]

Also I'm not particularly fond of any roguelikes

[stiff furnace]

i wonder if we are ever gonna get the hive as a DLC

[ember river]

The HK hive? With Vespa and all? I doubt it

[olive stag]

better map layout? you're just going to throw adjectives around with no explanation?

[elder rune]

Probably not, but I could see Team Cherry having Hornet fight Vespa in some Godmaster-esque expansion

[elder rune]

Don’t engage with the bait.

[sinful nimbus]

HK progression was dictated by map design and abilities while Silksong progression is dictated by unfun mandatory fetch quests and mandatory item pickups

[stiff furnace]

maybe like its abandoned hive?

[ember river]

We already got that

You know, in the first game

[silk dirge]

i mean thats mainly just act 3

or rather getting to it

[olive stag]

there's a grand total of 4 fetch quests

[sinful nimbus]

In HK you could do almost everything without double jump (110% the game and get Dream No More) but in Silksong you quite literally HAVE to pick up double jump because its mandatory to get Silk and Soul to appear which feels quite artificial and doesn't give as much leeway

[stiff furnace]

no but like super abandoned like NO one

[spark valve]

Act 3 reqs are the biggest issue

[ember river]

That'd be extremely boring and returning to hallownest doesn't make much sense

[sinful nimbus]

I like the game I just have my issues with it

[olive stag]

I see no issue in requiring the player to fully experience the game to showcase him the deeper parts of the game

[stiff furnace]

true

[ember river]

I hate to admit it but star kinda has a point here. The main quests do feel less organic than in Hollow Knight, at least for me

[zenith quartz]

Photo hollow knight spoiler

Silksong spoiler
|| If the hollow knight isn't hollow then the second one is true but in the true end of silksong he isn't much hollow is it ||

[sweet shale]

Its just that all i see you do is heap hate on it