sk-lore

[scenic shuttle]

Yall do you think that how hornet saw the everbloom from zemer?

[limpid summit]

Grimm and the troupe travel through the realm

[mint surge]

no dreamcatcher particles anywhere

[craggy smelt]

we don't see Essence wheelies, but Hornet may not perceive Essence that way

just silk instead

[scenic shuttle]

Mossbags lore video is gonna be like 3000 hours long at this point

[craggy smelt]

he probably won't do one
'silk lore is too mid, doing other stuff'

[timber pond]

I take this as, GMS CAN access Dreams In a way. But hornet cant really manipulate that Directly Like the knight could because the Moth's Dreamnail was MADE for that purpose

[dawn sluice]

higher beings we have so far
the knight (only after getting the void heart)
hornet (weaver queen)
pale king
white lady
nightmare heart
the radiance
tro- wait trobbio?!?
grand mother silk
unn
maybe the lifeblood creature

[stuck berry]

maybe nyleth

[limpid summit]

Unn as well

AND mister mushroom

[dawn sluice]

o yeah forgot unn

[scenic shuttle]

probably the lifeblood creature

[stuck berry]

mister mushroom if you really want to stretch it which i just do not buy it at all unlike some people

[scenic shuttle]

He’s a force of nature

[craggy smelt]

he's literally the highest being

in a couple of ways

[limpid summit]

Higher beings exist above all others
True existence above ALL others even HBs
not a HB

[vestal swan]

Foreign soul can do that

[stuck berry]

there's but One lore tablet made by shrooms that praises him it's flimsy

[craggy smelt]

get it because he flies and is a shroom

[vestal swan]

Silk just resonates

[dawn sluice]

mister mushroom is more like the mask maker
well travelled with a very clear duty

[mint surge]

I feel like having to account for hornet's in-universe perception of noncorporeal reality particles is stretching a bit too far. The dream wheelies are an out-of-universe design cue to tell the player that something is tied to the dream realm, so if they wanted the memories to be dreams, they'd use the dream wheelies. They did it with the void particles so there's also precedent for it, but there's no wheelies in the memories.

[stuck berry]

do you think the hallownest mask maker is the pharloom mask maker

[timber pond]

Nah, Hes probably just spending too much time trying to come up With Sticking jokes for each lore connotation. Shit like 'hornet is techncically an in universe Uber eats driver" or something lol

[scenic shuttle]

Wheelies is such a good name

[limpid summit]

He might be something “different” sure he’s unlike all the other HBs but why would you make a whole new category rather than using the one we have

[scenic shuttle]

No completely different body

[limpid summit]

He exists above all others he is a HB

[dawn sluice]

yeah he just mutated due to eating apples

[stuck berry]

i don't see it

[scenic shuttle]

I don’t think mask maker eats 😭

[stuck berry]

maybe you could make a case that the mask changes your physical appearance but mehhhh

[scenic shuttle]

He’s too busy mask making

[craggy smelt]

i think there's more than one mask maker

like the Sprintmasters

[solar tapir]

And thats a problem bc memories IS made of essence. Here what seers says

[scenic shuttle]

Also silksong mask maker doesn’t change masks all the time

[timber pond]

The thing is, You could tie this to The Knight Possesing the Dream Nail. Because before you get it, You dont see them either.

[limpid summit]

It is not the same dude

Masks don’t actually change a bug’s form

[vestal swan]

PK
WL for some reason
Unn
Radiance
Nightmare Heart
GMS
Mr Mushroom
Nyleth
Tk/shadelord
Bad ending Hornet
Bad ending Greyroot
Possibly
Lifeblood beast
Rain
Thunder

[mint surge]

It's probably a squares and rectangles situation

[limpid summit]

Who invited Nyleth blud 💔

[scenic shuttle]

Eva was an artificial higher being

[timber pond]

White lady is a plae being so that qualifies her probably.

[limpid summit]

Otherwise peak list

Eva failed

[stuck berry]

mushroom is cope i stand by that

[vestal swan]

She was an attempt they failed

[scenic shuttle]

Still prettt powerful

[dark rune]

oh btw im cutting you down to 1s per decade

[vestal swan]

Pale is not a higher being classifier it means they're white

[stuck berry]

usurper

[limpid summit]

How is mushroom cope

[solar tapir]

Nyleth is a higher being?

[mint surge]

that or the dream realm in general is tied to the radiance/nightmare heart directly, so it doesn't manifest in pharloom because neither is present

[limpid summit]

I will defend MMHB till I pass

[scenic shuttle]

She is described as the first seed

[limpid summit]

The triality of man

[solar tapir]

It is stated that dream realm just different plane of reality

[spark valve]

nyleth isn't a hb they're considerably weaker

[vestal swan]

Nyleth spawned and controlled shellwood before she was on her deathbed

[craggy smelt]

i don't know if Nyleth quite gets there
creating Shellwood's growth isn't a small feat, but still...

I can't really decide, myself

[limpid summit]

Nyleth that middle ground where she is stronger than Isma who just made a grove but weaker than Unn who created a kingdom from her dreams

[scenic shuttle]

It’s hard to decide

[dawn sluice]

ones who can alter the mind of bugs
pale king
shade lord
nightmare heart
radiance
lifeblood creature
unn (possible)
grand mother silk
trobbio

ones who can alter physical being of bugs
trobbio
radiance
lifeblood creature
shade lord
grand mother silk

ones who can straight up create beings
unn
nyleth
grand mother silk
pale king?
trobbio
possibly radiance

[dark rune]

i thought creating life qualified her

[stuck berry]

if unn counts i don't see why nyleth shouldn't

[vestal swan]

Nobody normal is out there starting a forest and controlling the whole thing

[limpid summit]

Are we trying to sneak in Shade Lord

[scenic shuttle]

True

[spark valve]

mechanisms and power levels

[solar tapir]

And well, it is everywhere, connected to anyone

[mint surge]

I'd say Nyleth's an edge case. Not actually a god but not a normal bug either

[dawn sluice]

possibly…

[stuck berry]

edge nyleth don't mind if i do

[scenic shuttle]

Die

[stuck berry]

ok

[limpid summit]

If Nyleth is just a weaker version of another higher being it sort of dampens the idea of existence above other bugs

[dark rune]

i think isma herself is the grove

[limpid summit]

I think it’s just thematically weird for her to be the only HB of the hearts

[mint surge]

Would the parasite in the cursed ending count as a higher being?

[limpid summit]

But she was the only divinity recognized by the Citadel so that’s telling

[limpid summit]

Maybe

[dawn sluice]

yeah
the twisted child is its name i think

[scenic shuttle]

That’s true

[stuck berry]

it might it did literally absorb both a higher being and an HB-to be

[craggy smelt]

I wonder if Nyleth is the first of several beings, Sister Splinter mentions her as 'other sleeping' I think, as well as more Sisters that are long gone

[spark valve]

that's not so much to do with her power as it is her being advantageous to them since it makes the pilgrimage easier

[limpid summit]

The sisters are the weavers

They have to be

[dark rune]

is this needolin dialogue

[scenic shuttle]

Sister splinter is not related to the weavers

[solar tapir]

Every thought mirrors in the dream realm, so the memories, and then we have the red memory and that nedolin memory thing in general

[limpid summit]

She is mocking them they called each other sisters

They were referred to as the sisters

[mint surge]

Sister Splinter's literally just a particularly angry stickbug i think

[craggy smelt]

why would she call the Weavers sisters, and not be alluding to other creatures like herself?

[dawn sluice]

white lady for some odd reason can’t do anything and is recognized as a higher being by the kingsoul

[scenic shuttle]

How do you all think the watcher on the edge survived so long?

[stuck berry]

covered with rocks

[vestal swan]

Sl can't alter minds
Lbb isn't known for any feats
Unn connects to her kin only
Trobbio isn't a HB

Rad just bloats them it's not a intentional or targeted mutation
Lbb again unknown
Sl cannot

pk cannot create life
Rad did
Unn did
Nmh did
Nyleth spawned it

Trobbio isn't a hb

[craggy smelt]

manly perseverence

[limpid summit]

Because she talks about her children’s rule, then the Weavers’ rule, then Nyleth’s rule

That’s a good mix of all the Shellwood powers through her ndd

[stuck berry]

grr shakes my fist in rage

[limpid summit]

She refers to the stickbugs as her children

[scenic shuttle]

I think the watcher on the edge survived by like sheer willpower

[dark rune]

get out of my lawn

[limpid summit]

Sisters sisters so long gone sounds like Weavers

[scenic shuttle]

It’s about others like her she is a sticking

[craggy smelt]

so whose Sister is she, if the other stickbugs are her children and she has no siblings?

[dawn sluice]

you missed a trobbio

[scenic shuttle]

Might have been other sister splinters like sister bark

[craggy smelt]

hmm, the stickbugs do refer to brothers and sisters

maybe she's more of an older sister figure to them

[limpid summit]

WL can also alter physical beings of bugs

🤫🤫🤫

Loodles, Mantis Traitors exhibit advanced biology

[spark valve]

something something marmu something something mossflies something something mantis petras

[scenic shuttle]

WL is able to create like thousands of children at least 30 thousand

[limpid summit]

Don’t forget caelif and fera

WL growth powers acting on one as we speak

[craggy smelt]

made that vessel grow up (maybe)

[spark valve]

aren't they like cordycepsed

[dark rune]

imagine each egg only contains one vessel 💀

[craggy smelt]

they do

[vestal swan]

Two or three could fit each egg tbh

[scenic shuttle]

So many eggs how long did that take 😭

Just like a full week of eggs falling into the abyss

[dark rune]

not enough to where the wl didnt need to contain herself in her gardens

she be wildin

[craggy smelt]

I heard this line about insects having multiple young per eggs, but is that an irl thing?
I know there's eggsacks, but those have individual eggs inside them
pretty sure bugs don't actually have twins

[dawn sluice]

what would happen if the knight just climbed up the ledge somehow

[scenic shuttle]

If the knight was like hornet and had actual hands

[vestal swan]

Bugs don't really have twins afaik but these are magic half root demons babies

[dawn sluice]

how many trobbio-like higher beings

[dark rune]

pk trying to stagger out of the room: please... my prongs hurt
wl: IT'S NOT ENOUGH
pk flails while getting dragged back into bedroom

[vestal swan]

The eggs are taller than the avg citizen

[vestal swan]

They do

[scenic shuttle]

So wild

[scenic shuttle]

Not good ones clearly

Couldn’t pull themselves up a ledge

Gn yall

[dawn sluice]

my name is yall, good night snowfall(100% ss 112% hk)

[dark rune]

do you guys think loam is an actual horse

i think he is

[mint surge]

The inexplicable bug-sized horse strikes again

[dark rune]

or something horse-like

[dawn sluice]

do you guys think lumble is actually lucky

[mint surge]

They're magnetite dice, pretty sure that implies he was cheating

[empty flume]

Well, he does die so I don’t think so

[dawn sluice]

anyway i love how sherma was basically genetically engineered as a perfect citadel bug
being so pure that he passes the last judge (or he just kills the second to last judge somehow) and then playing music the entire way up

also according to a friend of mine if you don’t open the gate for him he just arrives anyway

[dark rune]

oops my memory swapped inches for feet

[dark rune]

i thought hornet was 2 feet tall for a second 💀

that didnt seem right

[empty flume]

I think she’s 2 inches

[dark rune]

2-3 inches

ok so loam def isnt a real world horse

[mint surge]

Silksong is more blatant about animalizing its bugs to the point that a lot of them are basically mammals, so Loam's species is presumably just Generic Horselike Bug

[dawn sluice]

do you like this compared to hollow knight?

[mint surge]

or how the Roaches in Sinner's Road are basically dogs

[muted lantern]

also bugs seem be vertabrates and have blood instead of exoskeletons and hemolyph

[dawn sluice]

also weavers standing up straight no longer is what it was, what it used to be is now just their crouch

[mint surge]

I'd say it's a good way to add some variety to potential designs, as long as they don't push it too far. Insects have really diverse biology but that's unfortunately really hard to depict in as simplified a style as what Hollow Knight uses, so adding mammalian traits lets them expand into a lot of directions that wouldn't really work if they limited themselves strictly to insectoid anatomy

[vestal swan]

What's this crackhead horse idea? Don't u talk to loam?

[mint surge]

Hollow Knight also did this but to a lesser extent than Silksong

i'm assuming the inexplicable bug-sized horse is also sentient in this scenario, because why not

[dawn sluice]

yeah
and i like how roaches grow from maggots

it shows flexibility

[tulip ledge]

Shakra is a guy

[muted lantern]

new ragebait just dropped

[mint surge]

I tend to think of HK's world as basically "all the characters are furries but like, with bugs"

Otherwise the scaling just doesn't work

[tulip ledge]

Yeah idk abt that one bro

[mint surge]

They're anthropomorphic insects. Honestly it's not that far off

[vestal swan]

There's not a single mammal in the game

[ocean crown]

Sklore

[muted lantern]

except evil skeleton that is

[ocean crown]

Give me your blood

[muted lantern]

no i barely have enough myself

keep getting robbed by spiders

[ocean crown]

Man

Just got a playthrough idea. Addict edition

Anyway what we talking abt

[mint surge]

Anthropomorphic just means "humanlike". Not everything fits into that category, especially a lot of the enemies that are just one-to-one insects, but anything from walking on two legs to exhibiting humanlike intelligence and social structures is enough to qualify

[ocean crown]

Such as quirrel and such

And practically every main character

Idk why I madd that point

Sorry I’m tired

[mint surge]

Characters like the vaultkeeper still qualify as anthropomorphic because they have humanlike jobs or societal roles, even if they're not visibly humanoid in shape

Arguably the only bugs in silksong that entirely avoid the categorization are the wholly nonsentient purely insectoid enemies, like the common pharlids, shadow creepers or the bugs you see during the climb to the surface

And when you actually boil it down, a furry (as a character, not the subculture) is just an animal with varying levels of anthropomorphization

Therefore Hollow Knight is basically Zootopia with bugs.

I rest my case.

[wild zinc]

Also I just noticed since there’s webs around the guards because they stood still for so long is that because of the haunting or just normal tiny spiders that make webs

[brazen canyon]

Tell meee

[silk dirge]

probably haunting

[barren beacon]

Yes

[brazen canyon]

Oooh he is in there

[barren beacon]

Yes

[lapis vapor]

he is in one part

[craggy smelt]

our little buddy

[lapis vapor]

cutscene based i think

[brazen canyon]

Is silksong a prequel or sequel

[lapis vapor]

sequel

[brazen canyon]

So everything in that game happens after the events of the first game?

Alr noice

[barren beacon]

Fellas wild theory but, I think The Knight shows up in Silksong

[lapis vapor]

yes but also is influenced by first game with lots of lore i dont get yet with herrah and midwife

[barren beacon]

Midwife is literally never mentioend, I think

Poor gal

[lapis vapor]

u get lore abt herrah so u can assume more abt weavers from her

[barren beacon]

yeah but like

Midwife Isn't a weaver

[dawn sluice]

fun fact: hornet becomes victor from arcane in the weaverqueen ending

glorious evolution
2.
little threads that just instantly assimilate once they touch your head

[lapis vapor]

im prob gonna go now

so bye

[muted lantern]

So is sherma a kid or not? He obviously sounds and acts very young and naive but unlike most of the child characters neither hornet nor the text ever refer to him as a child, and he seems to take on a role of leadership within songclave. My general assumption is pilgrims take off on their journey as soon as they reach adulthood, as a rite of passage, so presumably most of the pilgrims we meet are very young adults, aside from the elders who seem to be taking exceptionally long on their journey.

[visual glacier]

We don’t know

[muted lantern]

I mean hornet whenever she meets a character who is a child she will refer to them as child or young one ie lace, gilly, nuu, runt. but she only refers to sherma as little one, which could have more to do with his size than anything

as he is just a little guy

is it little one or small one, i don't remember

[visual glacier]

She never calls nuu. A child

But we know she is one

[muted lantern]

<entry name="HUNTER_FAN_JOURNAL_REPEAT">[Hornet]:Child, if your wish is to gain learning of this land's creatures, why not hunt them yourself?[NPC]:Ma? Nuu, herself to hunt? No, no! Is not Nuu's nature to hunt, is hers to come later and learn. Such is the way of things![NPC]:But you... a predator! Know it from your smells can clever Nuu! So Nuu asks you to cut and record, so we both may learn!</entry>

she calls her a child here

[visual glacier]

You’re right

[muted lantern]

in the same way she refers to lace and runt

Nuus dialogue is still hilarious the way she talks

if you keyword search nuu in the text dump you will find like 70 instances but most are from like 10 lines of dialogue where she uses her name every sentence instead of I

[silk dirge]

i think hes younger but not a child

so like my age

[muted lantern]

yeah i generally get the vibe they leave on the pilgrimage as soon as they reach adulthood

bc pilby seems pretty young too

[silk dirge]

nuu is such a silly pilgrim

like she would make for a really funny one

she just fucking teleports

[muted lantern]

the judges would run in terror of nuu

[silk dirge]

how the fuck did she get to voltnest

apparently you can find her there

[muted lantern]

nuu has sans's powers

she can go wherever she wants offscreen

[silk dirge]

its crazy to me how weak pilgrims are

[muted lantern]

I think she gets slapped again in voltnest too

[silk dirge]

yall are getting beaten by a fucking snail child

[muted lantern]

they are kinda indoctornated into helplessness tbf

[silk dirge]

yeah

"dont use weapons"

the convenient savage beastfly in far fields:

[muted lantern]

Im listening to the no im not human soundtrack rn and it would be really funny if someone made a parody crossover fanfic or fangame of it in silksong where nosks are the visitors.

also i just realized that frey avoided the curse on bellhart by hiding in her shop, which means everyone in bellhart had to go outside to get raptured

[visual glacier]

Or they had rapture hatches installed

[muted lantern]

wouldn't be too farfetched considering they are so religious lmao

it is kinda funny the bellhart bugs probably thought it was the rapture

[visual glacier]

I don’t think the rapture is included in the citadels religion lol

[muted lantern]

you never know

[native kettle]

I have a theory abt silksong. I think the guys in the ||wisp thicket|| are an offshoot of the grim troupe.

[muted lantern]

i thought a bit of it before, theres certainly some parralels, but I don't know if they are connected so directly, they seem to be some kind of pagan religion burning the silk to protect themselves from the haunting, and don't really have ties to fear or nightmare afaik, more of a purification through flame kind of thing. also i think nightmare flames look generally different from theirs.

[native kettle]

I can't even say shit lmfao. Valid point

[muted lantern]

there are definitely similarites with the nightmare lantern and wispfire lantern though iirc, so there could be some kind of thematic connection with the power of flame?

id have to read more of the cultists needolin dialogue

[visual glacier]

Also there’s some old concept art where the burning bugs held a lantern with an identical shape to the Grimm troupe lantern

[native kettle]

I was just thinking since the boss there the flame is in the heart area. I thought it could be a sorta omage to thr nightmare heart

That's rly cool

[muted lantern]

i think there could be a connection, i just am not sure if they are tied so directly to the troupe.

[muted lantern]

ooh thats interesting, thats certainly something to consider

[dawn gyro]

guys I wonder if this guy was from the coral gorge and went into hallownest then died

[visual glacier]

Found it

[dawn gyro]

I wonder if the flame guys were originally gonna be members of the trouppe before they just served the father of the flame

[winter thicket]

What's the difference between plasmium and lifeblood

[visual glacier]

Different names

[winter thicket]

Are they both canon names?

[visual glacier]

Yes

[winter thicket]

Why does skong give it a different name?

[grand star]

the scientist didn't know what it was called

[winter thicket]

Ah ok

[cobalt coyote]

Its another guy finding it

[winter thicket]

Tbh I'm not a huge fan of the newer name

[muted lantern]

i think it would be odd if they gave them the same name, because its an entirely different country discovering the same resource separately without knowing about the other, so it makes sense they name them different things.

[steel turret]

also the fact they’re confined to a single far off region while the citadel faith dominates the land is probably commentary on how Christianity smothered pagan faiths

[winter thicket]

Lifeblud is such a tuff name

[muted lantern]

ye definitely

theres a lot of commentary on organized religion, colonialism, capitalism, etc in silksong

[steel turret]

You think lifeblood has a higher being?

[scenic shuttle]

Yes the lifeblood creature in the void in hollow knight

[steel turret]

I’m of the mind that it doesn’t yet but once it finds a sufficiently powerful host it’ll turn em’ into a cocoon that a mighty butterfly god will emerge from

It’ll make its own higher being

[scenic shuttle]

Because it appears inside godhome and it has one most likely the lifeblood creature in the void

[stray fog]

What if the thing in the abyss is a pupa for such a creature

[steel turret]

Maybe lifeblood ensnared it and it’s trying to make it the cocoon

[scenic shuttle]

It appears with dreamcatchers around it just like higherbeings in hollow knight

[muted lantern]

no to me it seems to be more of an unfocused force of nature like the void, but its possible it is

[steel turret]

Yeah, I think the lifeblood is trying to mutate it into a higher being

[scenic shuttle]

This guy is who we are talking about https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/hollowknight/images/8/80/Screenshot_HK_Abyss_15.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/250?cb=20231101191451

He’s fucking giant

Maybe he is from the ancient civ

[steel turret]

I forgot about them

Maybe lifeblood was an experiment of theirs?

[scenic shuttle]

Or just that one guy survived by using a shit ton of lifeblood

[muted lantern]

Lifeblood could be like the void in that its a force of nature that can be focused into a higher being through some intervention like the lord of shades

lifeblood and void seem to have some link considering it's appearance in the the abyss

they seem to be some kind of opposites, like stagnation and growth

[viscid cave]

I think is that "plasmium" is similar to lightblood (radiance infection) but less severe

[muted lantern]

it seems as dramatic as like infected crossroads which is like radi infection at it's worst

[steel turret]

I agree, but I think the difference is that lifeblood is actively trying to make a higher being whereas void needs external influence

[scenic shuttle]

Yeah hornet mentions the infection is just like the radiance infection herself

Act 4 you fight the abyss creature with the knight and then you get the Yuri

[viscid cave]

What act 4??

[scenic shuttle]

It doesn’t exist. Yet

DLCs remember

[viscid cave]

Oh right dlc in the next 4 years

[scenic shuttle]

The ending is too inconclusive for them to just not follow up on it

[scenic shuttle]

They have a bunch of cut content they can use

[viscid cave]

The bay thing?? Steel assassins stuff?

[scenic shuttle]

Yeah and the city of steel and the coral gorge and the pale king crest

You heard me

[viscid cave]

No I saw you

[muted lantern]

I don't think its consiously doing that, i think its just constantly evolving by instinct.

i think it's life unrestrained

[viscid cave]

So like, similar to the void, or knight?

[scenic shuttle]

The knight had a will

And thoughts

[muted lantern]

ye i think lifeblood is the yin to the voids yang if that makes sense, we see a altar to lifeblood in the abyss

[viscid cave]

Ok

[scenic shuttle]

And the lifeblood creature

[muted lantern]

isnt it called something weird in the files related to the void?

or am i misremembering

[scenic shuttle]

Yes it’s called the abyss creature

And it is also in godhome

Of its own volition seemingly

[muted lantern]

its the ancient civilizations crack dealer

[scenic shuttle]

Real also yall remember those absolutely gargantuan skeletons next to sprintmaster swift area?

They are like nearly as big as the colloseum bug if not bigger

[viscid ridge]

Bro i found hornet in adventure time

[robust wagon]

Istg bro city of steel is literally just a name idk why people expect that to be anything

[viscid ridge]

They are very strange, id say the sprintmaster corspe is bigger than the wyrm, maybe not longer, but definitely way bigger

[muted lantern]

she would say this

alongside her many other hatecrimes

hornet is truly the biggest bigot in silksong

[scenic shuttle]

Yeah but the masters have had their lore being built in both games plus there was 4 whole steel enemies meant to hunt hornet that they could repurpose since you know one of them is a backer character

They include every backer character possible

[viscid ridge]

Same, people are saying well get to go to the city of steel, even though its probably its own kingdom incredibly far away from Pharloom. Although i think we'll get a steel dlc, i think at most we'll get a small outpost, like with Jinn or Zi

[scenic shuttle]

Well that’s the thing it’s mentioned as being nearby because they hunted down a weaver there

[robust wagon]

Exaaaactly bro, this is what I'm thinking

[scenic shuttle]

What if the masters is just mister mushroom

[robust wagon]

I don't think a kingdom has to be nearby for them to kidnap a weaver from there

[scenic shuttle]

They didn’t go for any from hallownest

[viscid ridge]

I do also hope we'll get that Pale King crest, the design is too cool not to use. But the logistics about how to obtain it is pretty shaky, considering that to get a crest like that we'll need to bind the corpse of the Pale King, which is not only quite a distance away, but also in a protected dream realm

[scenic shuttle]

Elegy of the deep his corpse 🔥

[viscid ridge]

Its nearby? How do you come to that conclusion?

[scenic shuttle]

Because none of them mention them being very far from pharloom and they never mention going after the one survivor in hallownest from the infection and they only go for hornet cause they are desperate for silk most likely

[viscid ridge]

Honestly i am hopefull well get some Pale King flashbacks, cause although i appreciate the Daughter of 3 Queens memory, i would like to see one with the Pale King

[scenic shuttle]

To get gms enough power to free herself

Yeah like a training scene or something

To unlock the crest

[viscid ridge]

Thats a pretty weird way to interpret that

[scenic shuttle]

Dunno it just makes sense to me

(I just want coral gorge and all the cut content)

[stone herald]

they keep showing up

[scenic shuttle]

(I want the pale king crest attacks to be all buzzsaw related)

[viscid ridge]

Hopefully well get like a little platforming dream section from a corpse, but dont expect the entire area to return

[scenic shuttle]

Still I also wanna know about that weird snail village from the trailers

In the pharloom Bay Area

[viscid ridge]

Those were cut

Oh nvm i was thinking of something else

[scenic shuttle]

I know but it doesn’t mean they cannot be re-added?

[viscid ridge]

Hopefully it'll be added, cause there are still enemies and characters from that area in game. It also seems like that area would be heavily related to lifeblood

There seems to have been a Lifeblood spire or something from that part of the world, which would match the Alchemists dialogue saying he got the Lifeblood somewhere in a salty sea

[scenic shuttle]

Cool

[scenic shuttle]

Wut is that where is this from

[viscid ridge]

From Acmi

[scenic shuttle]

Ok

[viscid ridge]

Theres also a ton of pictures that show what the coral forest would've looked like

[scenic shuttle]

It would be so peak :(

[viscid ridge]

Voltnest also would have been way bigger, it was like 1/4th of the gorge

[scenic shuttle]

Much less peak

[silk dirge]

i dont think its size got changed too much its just an internal room so you dont see it on the map

[scenic shuttle]

Probably true

[quartz salmon]

seems like someone found this place in the pictures from Ari's sketchbook

it was pretty obvious that this is where Zylotol's master is supposed to be but now we just confirmed it

[viscid ridge]

Ill get a picture, cause it was absolutely massive compared to what we have now

[viscid ridge]

Yeah i figured it was were the alchemist originally was

[silk dirge]

also wtf why did tc delete the beta changelog

its not there anymore

if you click the link it just takes you to the steam discussion page

hopefully its nothing big bc there were some really good changes on there

[viscid ridge]

The what?

[silk dirge]

#hk-announcements

[visual glacier]

“In the air. The water. Everywhere.
Inside their shells. Twisted inside. Guts.
Tightest around heart. Pulsing rhythm.
Sick. Alive. Dead?
Something worse.
Deeper. Must look deeper.”
Does this imply that the haunting controls dead bugs by manually beating their hearts

[toxic perch]

crazy wof reference/name
just joined the server and i already see familiar names

[visual glacier]

Wall of flesh mention 🔥

[upbeat star]

How did sherma get into the sauna before hornet?

[covert vigil]

He definitely entered the Citadel after Hornet, so it's likely that they simply passed each other and spent some time wandering around before meeting

[upbeat star]

But to be in a completely locked sauna? Unless he locked the door behind him

[covert vigil]

NPCs can move in three dimensions, so there might just be another passage in the spa

[upbeat star]

Oh right that is true, you see a flying bug just zoom out of bellhart

[sudden ginkgo]

Fleas

[timber pond]

This Reminds me,Zylotol in game implies that he gets the lifeblood samples from pharloom bay, and Pharloom bay in the ACMI images has this Innocuous "tower" sort of juting out of the water, which lines up with the original "lifeblood tower" sketch from the OG concept map. Maybe If they do a Lifeblood expansion DLC, We would get pharloom bay with it and a quest to contain the lifeblood, Finding this Unused Tower room somewhere above pharloom bay.

[craggy smelt]

dealing with a continuous spread of Lifeblood would be pretty great
have it expand beyond the Wormways into Bonebottom
nothing really going on in there in Act 3

[viscid cave]

I think hornet is a part weaver

[quartz salmon]

wait what is that

lmao

its sands of karak before it got gutted

ohh

idk

[cobalt coyote]

NOOO WAYYY REALLY?????

[manic pewter]

Im going to ACMI next month so im gonna get some clearer pictures of those maps for ppl so dm me if theres specific things from the exhibit you want clearer photos of specifically

[quartz salmon]

well probably everything

[earnest marsh]

Read this document
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TStzFo5rNTLWg2mwKlJBs-oBhmfTUrQy6Hl2KQH0rAo/edit?pli=1&tab=t.0#heading=h.onju2udblzfo

There's a community effort going on rn apparently

[earnest marsh]

Not sure it really lines up - here's a zoom-in of Bay

It looks like some weird chasm that just falls back down to the water from the top

[timber pond]

This piliar i what i was talking about

[earnest marsh]

I'm talking about it too? It looks like it just goes back to the top

[timber pond]

It could go up past the rooms above it, idk. Seems Suspicious.

[fallow sphinx]

Could be behind a breakable floor which just sends you back to the bottom, team cherry loves doing that

[earnest marsh]

Yeah, deepnest style is what I was thinking

[fallow sphinx]

Yeh and bilewater bench

[earnest marsh]

LOL I forgot about that

must've blocked it out of my memory

[fallow sphinx]

Repressed trauma lol

Do we know what happened to the weaver in the weavers den in hk that ran away?

[craggy smelt]

nope!

[fallow sphinx]

I see

[craggy smelt]

the Weavers that lived in Deepnest were said to have departed to return to Pharloom
it may have joined them, or stayed in Deepnest hiding somewhere

[fallow sphinx]

Possibly a future ss dlc

[manic pewter]

Yeyeye i saw that one, defs gonna contribute

[earnest marsh]

Silksong players try not to call everything a future DLC challenge (impossible) /j

[fallow sphinx]

It’s called false hope, let me have this

[frank dove]

Ngl could be a refelction off the screen from the photo

Maybe not but it is a possibility

Is it in the other photos too?

[earnest marsh]

Yes iirc

I'll double check but a reflection wouldn't look like that

Also this is a room related to bay accoridng to the wiki so idek anymore (I specifically mean the one on the left)

[quartz salmon]

im really curious to see what that is

doesnt look like a room in the fashion of everything else in these screenshots

[earnest marsh]

Oh if possible could you check if the rest of this text is visible on the map? I can't tell if this person got a weird zoom-in or if the text just goes off the map

[empty scarab]

what if uhh shakra was from the same tribe as that one soul from hk

yk the orange dude that throws his rings at you

and it says he travelled the whole world or smth in his journal entry

[short cave]

anyone know how i can put my aspid cloverlands map in the game if the world of pharloom is "dying" i really wanna have a lively world

[empty scarab]

memory maybe

you play music to a primal aspid (trust the process)

[short cave]

i eally wanna play a world of pharloom before the corruption maybe ill make a map with all the areas

[empty scarab]

and tbh the bellway and benches are too far

why the channel is dead

[mighty zenith]

Oh my god I thought for a second that was rain world

[earnest marsh]

XD

[mighty zenith]

Im dead serious, were the clover dancers both males?

[earnest marsh]

Yes lol

[mighty zenith]

Bc it’s always hard for me to differentiate the genders lol

[mighty zenith]

OH MA GAWD

[earnest marsh]

One example is Green Prince saying "His whole he gave, in desperate trade [etc...]"

[mighty zenith]

Ooooh

Why do sherma and the little pilgrim both sound female but are males-

[earnest marsh]

I think Sherma's voice actor is a woman

Personally I take it to show his youth/naivety

I haven't really paid attention to Pilby though

[mighty zenith]

I see

[mighty zenith]

At least in the Spanish version which I play pilby is referred as him

[empty scarab]

are they called green princess ?

[mighty zenith]

I don’t think so

Not princess, but princes I think

[stray fog]

Im sure people have already mentioned 100 times that this spirit looks like a coral enemy, but what I was wondering is, weren't these spirits supposed to be members of the moth tribe?

[charred nimbus]

No

This is just a graveyard, there's many species of bugs there

[stray fog]

Oh

My brain just made shit up

[charred nimbus]

I think that this graveyard, not sure if it's another one tho, is where some backer characters went

Or i'm not sure if that other small graveyard is where it has only backer characters

[mighty zenith]

Bro left all of pharloom just like that, he rlly hated khann

[earnest marsh]

It's a backer character thing iirc

[charred nimbus]

Maybe he was a kind heart warrior, because that could be mostly the only explanation for him to desert in a logical sense, Khann was a military dictator so any soldier problaby loved him, expect the civilians of his kingdom

[mighty zenith]

Silksong’s got drama and yaoi, def the goty

https://tenor.com/view/absolute-radiance-absolute-cinema-absolute-cinema-radiance-gif-1212652150997464963

[mighty zenith]

I see

[charred nimbus]

Silksong may not win goty, but it's still the best game ever invented to me

And if SIlksong wins goty, i'm throwing a party in my house

[mighty zenith]

It better win it

[stray fog]

What was this spirit's name

[charred nimbus]

Anyone that decides to come will have to make a collective choir of chanting Trobbio in the end of the party

And that's a hard requirement

[charred nimbus]

I don't remember any of these spirits names other then Rivek

[stray fog]

I got it

[charred nimbus]

Because Rivek actually does something

[stray fog]

Its garro

Garro has no lore relevant dialogue unfortunately

[empty scarab]

what about the dude in orange that fights with rings

[stray fog]

Elder hu

[empty scarab]

is is from shakra's tribe or smth

[charred nimbus]

Elder hu

[charred nimbus]

Problaby

[earnest marsh]

I don't think he is, because like he wears orange clothes, but Shakra and her master have orange shells

[charred nimbus]

Elder hu has the same traditional clothing and fight style as shakra

He just sucks at fighting

[empty scarab]

i also remember his journal entry saying he was a traveler or something

[earnest marsh]

At least I think that's her shell

[charred nimbus]

You have to consider that Hu is a sage/doctor so he probably wouldn't use armor

[empty scarab]

it is

[earnest marsh]

I meant shell as in part of their body, like Hornet's head kinda deal

[charred nimbus]

There's only a small portion of body type of bugs in hollow knight wich are confirmed to be from their natural body

There is no confirmation that Shakra's and her Master's shells are natural

[earnest marsh]

Oh also Elder Hu has a Bindi on his forehead but Shakra/Master don't

[charred nimbus]

But like, the overral design of both elder hu and then heavily implies they're from the same tribe, they also fight with the same magic type of big ring and other things

You should consider that not everyone uses the same clothes everytime

It's like real life

People can be from a tribe but use a different type of clothing based on what they do

[earnest marsh]

idk I see the similarities but I don't think they are from the same tribe

to each their own tho ig

[stray fog]

the amount of similarities means that it must be intentional

[charred nimbus]

i would make a side to side comparison of Shakra using the magic ring in combat with the Elder Hu magic ring combat

But i'm just lazy, i was not born to debate 😭

[stray fog]

Why did elder hu (and potentially other tribe members) come to hallownest

[mighty zenith]

Exploration I guess?

Or they just wanted to live under the pale king’s management

[charred nimbus]

In Shakra's tribe you are supposed to leave home and travel, and you are also not suppoosed to come back...

[earnest marsh]

I get your point but his body under the cloth is grey whereas Shakra's body seems to be just black

[stray fog]

Oh

[mighty zenith]

Different species

Same tribe

[charred nimbus]

Yeah

It appears Shakra's tribe is made up by all kind of bugs

This was discussed here some time ago

[stray fog]

I wish we got to see shakra's tribe in ss

[charred nimbus]

I wish I LIVED under pale king's management

[stray fog]

Garmond and zaza's village too

[mighty zenith]

Unless the infection is rising

[earnest marsh]

We don't really have any proof of that tho

Unless there's somethign I'm missing

[mighty zenith]

[charred nimbus]

I think the first person who said it had proof, but it must be some dialogue

[charred nimbus]

I mean, Garmonod and Zaza are basically Dom Quixote De La mancha

I think the village being a mistery is kinda of cool

[stray fog]

I haven't heard that name since 4th grade

Wasn't that the windmill guy

[charred nimbus]

Yeah, that's correct

Wtf

[charred nimbus]

It is the guy who was crazy and fighted the windmill thinking it was a monster

i didn't know medical terms were banned from this server, this is kinda stupid.....

[stray fog]

Will the haunted bugs return to normal or will they die after act 3

[charred nimbus]

Some of the haunted bugs are already dead I think

[earnest marsh]

Some of the haunted bugs are corpses but not all afaik, so it's possible those will be fine

[stray fog]

The bellhart bugs were fine after widow died so Im assuming that most will ne safe

[earnest marsh]

I think the pilgrims are the most likely group to be ok

[charred nimbus]

Can't wait for Act 4: SkongValley

[earnest marsh]

Since you see a lot of the pilgrims who are alive get covered in silk before attacking you (in Mosshome for example)

[charred nimbus]

The bellheart bugs were not haunted, they were just imprisoned by the web if I remember correctly

[stray fog]

Oh

[charred nimbus]

You can also get imprisoned yourself if you sit on the bench and quit to the menu with widow alive

But it's a RNG chance

[heavy gyro]

The town was called haunted bellhart though?

It's just that widow is controlling them not gms directly

[charred nimbus]

Then it is not the haunting that we were mentioning, hence there is no way of knowing that the fate of Bellheart applies to the other bugs after act 3

It's possible that they'll be okay

But its just something different

[heavy gyro]

Widow is using gms' silk though, no? So basically it's the same thing with extra steps

[maiden meteor]

So what’s Leitmotif playing in Last Dive/Lost Lace/Sister of the Void

I might be a little stupid

[steep talon]

yep

[steep talon]

well knowing Chris there's probably dies irae there for some reason

[teal drift]

Also pavo says a lot of people didnt make it in bellhart

[toxic mulch]

Dies irae is everywhere in silksong

[stray fog]

Oh

[charred nimbus]

In act 1?

I never paid much attention to Pavo's dialogue

[stark halo]

Iiiish. Pavo gives a pretty strong indication there's a mental component to what Widow was doing.

What do you remember of your time caught upon the thread, Pavo?
Oh, ahh. It is difficult... Upsetting even to think. Strange, sad memories, not my own, and my own thoughts smothered amidst the tangle.
If only could choose to connect themself to something grander, that curse may seem a wonder. For myself, it now seems a horror.

Mostly speculation, but I imagine she was attempting to get them Haunted and it was just taking time for the process to complete
Widow dialogue:

Oh! Ohhhh! They shall join... Union upon your thread... A gift, for your waking. A world strung to serve...

[charred nimbus]

I think this isnt a Larkin thing tho, they just chosed to use dies irea in everything because of the religious aspect of the game

[steep talon]

yee, im just memeing

[charred nimbus]

It's very possible actually

[charred nimbus]

Team cherry not making a conductor with a name reference to Chirs Larkin is a crime

[steep talon]

well there are bunch of conductors that we dont see. Maybe in their lore bible one of them is named after Chris

[charred nimbus]

What would their name be? Larkino?

[steep talon]

Tophyr

[heavy gyro]

If a bug, other than hornet, was able to get the threefold melody, what would happen

[steep talon]

Lace would kill them

and gms seems to activate from Hornet being near her for some reason? So I guess they would just see the big cocoon and go back or something

[stark halo]

I think Hornet does mention at some point that her presence there accelerates Silk's awakening

I assume prior to the Haunting the flower field was used as a place for some kind of acceptance ceremony to induct a pilgrim into the Citadel proper or something

There aren't any spoiler restrictions on this channel, are there?

[steep talon]

yep, spoilers are fine

[charred nimbus]

Any bug who can survive the Forum can survive Lace

But it didn't happen yeah

[tranquil loom]

it seems like any void affected bugs are probably doomed given hornets approach to garmond’s situation

[earnest marsh]

True but not all haunted bugs got voided right

[maiden meteor]

my headcanon is that GMS woke up because Hornet ragebaited her by “killing” Lace

[hard widget]

I have a growing hunch that one of the DLCs will discuss deepnest's king and the trilobyte shrine

or at least i hope it will lol

thats one of the biggest loose ends connected to Deepnest and Herrah and TC said a while back that they might explore this

[vestal swan]

Never gonna happen

[hard widget]

breaking my clown wig back out of the closet

[frosty gate]

Not even a possibility honestly, i feel like that was already left out

[vestal swan]

Same

They retconned Herra stuff already, I don't think they're going to touch deepnest again at all

[stark halo]

What did they retcon?

[frosty gate]

Kind of a shame, but if it wasn't included it's not important
The Trilobyte shrine could be referenced at best, the king? Nah

[frosty gate]

Herrah was never called a Weaver

Now she is

[hard widget]

well

[frosty gate]

There wasn't a reason to touch Deepnest again tbh, we already got a lot in Red Memory.

[hard widget]

dialouge w eva

[charred nimbus]

this is on silksong

they meant on the first game

[hard widget]

oh are we talking hk

the only indication that herrah is a weaver in hk is her mask

[frosty gate]

Hence the "Now she is"

[vestal swan]

Yeah a lot of bullshit

[frosty gate]

Which, mind you, is barely anything

[vestal swan]

The first game said the opposite, there was nothing suggesting she was a weaver

[sinful nimbus]

TC hates Deepnest 💔

[stark halo]

I dunno if I'd call that a retcon, I mean, it was kind of unspecified other than "common beast"

[hard widget]

can you blame them

[frosty gate]

I liked it...

[sinful nimbus]

First Herrah's entire plot gets retconned and then Little Weavers just got booted out of existence???

[hard widget]

I wish the hive was still in deepnest tbh

[charred nimbus]

Expect the part that we had weavers in the first game and Herrah didn't look nothing like then

[sinful nimbus]

Also we will not elaborate on our sequel bait because we hate you

[frosty gate]

Nah, it was 100% a retcon.
Some things I usually try to work around them because they don't fully feel like retcon, this one does.

[hard widget]

i think the "overcame their limits" part in the dialogue i sent contextualzies that; she changed in order to have a child, perhaps? or was already changed and was better suited

[charred nimbus]

People been calling Grimm and The hunter weavers, so Herrah is on good points with the community

[vestal swan]

I only liked getting to see baby hornet because that was very funny how she had the circular shaped head like everybody thought she would, the weavers trying to tell her to be more like a spider and ignore her other parentage was dumb, the fact that she's a weaver at all I think is still dumb, the Vespa interaction was pointless, the white lady interaction makes everybody thinks white lady has a dream powers now

[vestal swan]

Those people are horribly wrong what does that have to do with this

[charred nimbus]

I was just mentioning? lol

[sinful nimbus]

SCREAM IF YOU LOVE HIVE QUEEN VESPA 😶

[frosty gate]

I mean, that's the current theory, but then again, it's barely anything

[hard widget]

i mean higher beings are capable of interfacing with the dream realm- if she has dream powers, it would be in the same way the pale king or unn does

[vestal swan]

Some higher beings can yes

[stark halo]

I suppose it doesn't matter that much if it was a retcon or not, I mostly asked from a "would TC openly retcon things" perspective. Whether it's a retcon or not, to me that's not quite openly contradicting previous lore (which would make it much harder to speculate based on HK)

[hard widget]

or grand mother silk for that matter

[charred nimbus]

I wouldn't even remember she existed if she didn't appear in silksong

[sinful nimbus]

What if Midwife is a weaver too since she's more knowledgeable about dreams then the average joe

Maybe everyone is a weaver

[hard widget]

i remember cuz i would always dream nail her on the way out of the hive after getting hiveblood after listeing to her dialogue

[sinful nimbus]

TC hates regular spiders

[hard widget]

midwife is void !!!!! /j

[vestal swan]

Midwife barely had spider vibes tbh, trapdoor maybe

[sinful nimbus]

Well weavers are not common beasts both in body and social status

[cobalt coyote]

My theory Has been rejected

[charred nimbus]

I don't know what the creatures like stalking devouts and midwife are, but i only know the way their masks open for a subtle attack is one of the coolest designs in the first game

[hard widget]

i hate the devouts but i agree

[cobalt coyote]

Also why is midwife's face diffrent from the devouts

[hard widget]

lol imagine TC follows the first game's dlc pattern for this development cycle

lifeblood, dreams, nightmare, godmaster

[stark halo]

I don't mind being pinged. Also, the lore tablets around Hallownest inviting higher beings and Weavers originating from Pharlids I think makes the "common beast" remark make a lot of sense (different society with more higher beings, a "fake" one made from a pharlid might be more openly reviled)

[charred nimbus]

I had a headcanon that she was the same species of the devouts, but it's possible that this isn't the case

hence midwife mask can just be different for many reasons

[cobalt coyote]

The devouts have blades she Has.. teeth

[hard widget]

midwife has a different face than the devouts under her mask

[wintry flame]

the deepnest enemies were truly silksong enemies in disguise

[frosty gate]

Meh, it's a fair opinion, I don't really care anyway. I thought it was fun to see nonetheless.
The Weaver one I actually think it ties really well with the whole assumption that Weavers are heavily egocentric and full of themselves.
I don't think it's dumb that Hornet is part Weaver, what I do think is dumb is not knowing about it from the begginning. It makes sense because she always used Silk, but then again, that wasn't something special back then.
The Vespa one, yeah it was more or less pointless, but I thought it was cool to see. Sometimes I just like enjoying things without going deep into it.

The fact that people got that from the WL one is so dumb though, like she probably had dream shit going on like any other HB, but this interaction proves nothing.

[charred nimbus]

i honestly don't agree....

[sinful nimbus]

I'm not really sure how the shrumals would glean that the weavers are uplifted Pharlids and frankly that aspect of the weavers doesn't seem like it was intentional when the base game was released

[wintry flame]

they behave identically to those big drapemites

minus the face shield

[charred nimbus]

Oh, like, i tought you were talking in a general sense, big drapemites, stalking devouts and those things in waterways are just a common design trope the game uses

[hard widget]

i mean the weavers weren't really introduced until grimm troupe dlc right?

[cobalt coyote]

Little weaver

[hard widget]

I think they developed in tandem with silksong as a separate game

[wintry flame]

what do you guys think moorwing looks under the hood

[sinful nimbus]

Little Weavers

[stark halo]

If it's a retcon, they kept the common beast part in mind when they were deciding the base lore of the weavers, is what I'm saying

[hard widget]

crusty png of nicholas cage

[wintry flame]

yeah the "LAME" design

[charred nimbus]

Blueish grey and mostly the same

[sinful nimbus]

Well the shrumal tablet is describing social status not biology

Its contrasted with Deepnest's "honored caste" the implication being that Herrah is only royalty by marriage

[hard widget]

i can see it being both since those two things in the world are more often than not tied together

[vestal swan]

It's also definitely a retcon because that's not the only different thing that was specifically put out there, there's the entire body type difference

[sinful nimbus]

Not in this case

Weavers aren't average joes in Deepnest society

[frosty gate]

I think Grimm Troupe brought the Weaversong, but everything else was already there

[charred nimbus]

Deepnest had a king? bro, there is a whole section of Hollow knight from one of my favorite areas that i don't know about....

Lorewise*

[sinful nimbus]

We don't know much about him other than the fact that he's dead but yeah

[vestal swan]

It's just an offhand mention and an empty mausoleum room

With a really weird ceiling ornament

[hard widget]

according to one lore tablet locked behind spore shroom close to the triple path room (fungal/queensgardens/deepnest)

[charred nimbus]

I think i'm gonna hop on my HK to reach this place

i think i never found it

[wintry flame]

just look up hollow knight trilobite

[charred nimbus]

But i wanna see it for myself 😭

[hard widget]

I do think "honored caste" implies a higher being though, there's nothing else i can think of that would fit that description besides a maybe weaver, who are all female

or at least something really powerful

[sinful nimbus]

Royalty

[charred nimbus]

It could also mean something of higher status too, i think the weavers could match this description but i have no idea what the topic is about so i won't say much

a noble in real life could be from a higher caste

[stark halo]

Sorry, which part of the lore discusses this? I agree this would signal an outright retcon, just wasn't aware there was anything that specifically talked about how the Deepnest views Weavers (or Shrumals, since that would be more pertinent, I suppose)

[charred nimbus]

Honored caste*

[vestal swan]

That's the point though, if the weavers match the higher status then why was Herra a common beast

Also there were no male weavers to the best of our knowledge

[manic pewter]

I need to take this into another program to make it more aesthetically pleasing but god family tree making is a mess

[sinful nimbus]

Midwife and the artbook talk about them a bit

[untold obsidian]

Are we sure the "common beast" part isn't meant as an insult? The mushrooms seem to hate deepnest

[stark halo]

I might be missing artbook info

To me it sounds like an insult relating to weaver origins, yeah

[sinful nimbus]

They're describing social status

[vestal swan]

The weavers are called the smartest part of the tribe I believe and they are the ones contributing to the part of the deal with the dreamers that provided silk to the entire kingdom to use for various things, they also had technological advancements afterwards

[sinful nimbus]

Its contrasted with the "honored caste" of their late king so its not like the Shrumals don't recognize Deepnest social structure

[frosty gate]

Oh, you're still onto this

[vestal swan]

?

[frosty gate]

Shit, wrong reply, mb

[stark halo]

they can recognize deepnest social structure and still have discriminatory views about weavers, people cherry pick based on their biases all the time

[vestal swan]

I mean it makes sense with the mentions in the second game, nothing really said one way or another in the first game. Unless we are to believe the honored caste dead sire was a weaver, but again that was never specified.

I don't think the mushrooms are the only one to call her a common beast though so that doesn't really fit

[stark halo]

it doesn't matter too much to me one way or another, i don't really insist on one interpretation because a lot is intentionally ambiguous anyway

[vestal swan]

[sinful nimbus]

I'm not really sure why they would have beef with weavers specifically

While they are throwing shade there's not much reason to assume they just don't know what they are talking about

"Lmao get a load of this tribe their queen is literally just some random lowly joe" still indicates Herrah was of low social status

[stark halo]

sorry, that was my way of saying "yeah i suppose the specifics of this don't really matter that much and i'm not that invested in insisting that my interpretation is right"

i think the lore tabs at face value might indicate a society that had a lot of higher beings (questionable, literally no evidence other than the lore tabs directed to higher beings afaik)

which could explain some weird views regarding what truly qualifies as a higher being

[vestal swan]

Oh right we forgot to address that, those tablets are not actually addressing God like characters

They're propaganda

[frosty gate]

Oh the Higher Being ones?

[stark halo]

i think that too, but there's still something weird about them

which is the perfect segue into what i actually wanted to talk about, which is the weird rock in silksong

[vestal swan]

Imagine if the sign said "hey you lonely peons come and serve me worship me I'm cool as fuck"
Instead it says "hey look at you with your cool self, you're awesome why don't you stick around we're the only place that exists"

[sinful nimbus]

weird rock?

[vestal swan]

Rock?

[frosty gate]

||n roll||

[stark halo]

yeah so pharloom and hallownest both have a number of written languages that are visually distinct, right

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah

[vestal swan]

Sort of

It's mostly just symbolism and runes

[frosty gate]

Yeah, Hallownest was mostly symbols and stuff, in Pharloom it's mostly music notes with added giberish

[vestal swan]

No

[manic pewter]

what

[charred nimbus]

The craws also use different weird symbols

[vestal swan]

1 your advertising a server
2 it's not something that can be translated so it's just fan made stuff which is not lore

[frosty gate]

That counts as spam dude

[manic pewter]

Wait so to be clear, its fine to advertise other community projects, but not if theyre in a discord server?

[vestal swan]

It depends but I'm not going to go down the giant list of what is and isn't good for sharing in the lore channel

[stark halo]

i'm not a symbolic language expert or anything but to me the most common signs in hallownest look very different from, say, the higher being specific signs, or the mantis tribe signs, etc
pharloom's 'common' language is very similar to hallownest's 'common' with a number of shared runes, but with a lot more musical notes
the 'higher being' signs conversely are all made of a lot of flowing lines very different from all the other visual languages we see

[vestal swan]

Oh you mean like tablets versus written language yeah that's what I mean by runes

[manic pewter]

Well my bad, i didnt realise external lore discussion servers werent allowed to be discussed

[vestal swan]

Fans making up definitions for the scribbles on the wall is also not lore

[stark halo]

yeah, and the abyss tablets in silksong share a lot of visual similarities to the higher being written language design

not like, 1:1, obviously

[manic pewter]

Ahhhh I misunderstood, because they do discuss how pictograms relate to lore (like symbols of characters being used in writing meaning they are a leader/important figure), but bc its not confirmed its not allowed, okok i get it now! Thanks!

[frosty gate]

It does follow the same concept, which is weird

[manic pewter]

heres a few more if yall are interested

[vestal swan]

The glowing tablets are like soul etched runes where the other stuff is just like painted on

I think the difference in quality is just showing who made them not who they are targeted at

Like obviously somebody important and with power made the ones with all the propaganda, and the ones in the SS abyss were pretty obviously by the weavers or AC

[frosty gate]

Were they?

[stark halo]

oh i just kind of assumed they're different written languages entirely haha, i agree it's not necessarily about who they're targeted, just hard to reference the specific hk tablets other than saying "the ones for [what he claimed were] higher beings"

i actually assumed they were ancient civilization lore tablets because of the different language + they're waaay on the opposite side of the weavenest

and we know ancient civilization worshipped the void like that (i think)

[frosty gate]

I guess it makes sense, but it doesn't look really weaver-like

[vestal swan]

It's either Weaver AC or non-weaver AC

[manic pewter]

parts of it does like similar to weavenest atla ig?

[vestal swan]

It's weird because some of the waeaver stuff looks just as old as the ancient civ stuff, so I'm thinking they either interacted or were just straight up part of the AC of Pharloom?

Maybe I'm the crazy one here

[stark halo]

anyway these might be random glowing lines on a rock but they also share some visual similarities with whatever language is being used for the abyss tablets/pk tablets

(i might be reaching) (i'm trying to find a link between the Steel faction and AC)

[vestal swan]

That's a really weird one

My guess for that one is that Zi is tapping into the resonance of that rock to use it like a radio tower and report back

[frosty gate]

Probably the Weirdest rock in the game

[vestal swan]

She apparently has a weird pulsing runes around her body

[steep talon]

yep

[stark halo]

i noticed that too and wondered if we can find similar runes anywhere else, but haven't been able to check

[steep talon]

that's funky. Didnt notice the similarity. Steels inherited AC's writing technology maybe?

[vestal swan]

Nothing that really looks like that, the ones on her body I mean

[steep talon]

or it's just a naturally efficient way to record info

with uhh rocks

[vestal swan]

Oh that leads to an even crazier theory, somebody said it a while ago and I think it actually makes a little bit of sense, the steel city could be just as old as the ancient civ and or the reason that they fell, so them having similar ancient runes and cryptic technology and knowledge of the void makes sense

[frosty gate]

Wiki states it shares a similarity with the Farsight rune

[vestal swan]

The wiki needs to put their glasses on

[steep talon]

i can kinda see it, but it's probably just similar motif. They're not supposed to be hints or mean the same thing

[stark halo]

they all do seem to be on rocks lmfao, the theory i'm currently trying to expand on is ancient civ becoming the Steel faction in some way (although Steel being their downfall makes sense too)

[frosty gate]

Yeah I can't say i see it, I don't think it means much.

[steep talon]

doesnt HK say the reason they fell was that AC attempted a rule to vast or something?

[vestal swan]

Splinter faction that could fit with what we know so far as well

[steep talon]

but could be cool. Maybe if steel dlc real we will actually learn more about AC

[stark halo]

the seer rune is significantly more complex and the role of the seers appears to be observation, so i could see the similarities being intentional, i suppose? no pun intended lol

[frosty gate]

Sorry, wtf is AC

[vestal swan]

The air conditioning people

[stark halo]

ancient civilization

[steep talon]

Armored Core

[frosty gate]

I bet it gets chilly in that place

[steep talon]

thankfully Armored Core discussion is allowed in this place

[frosty gate]

Not that i remember

[stark halo]

whatever was pre-hallownest, apparently worshipped the void, and made the funny eggs that PK presumably misread and thought "oh sweet that means I can get empty kids this way"

[vestal swan]

Hollow Knight mask maker says something about the folly of trying to rule so much and failing, that doesn't sound right but it's close to that

[steep talon]

it was something like PK is the shit but last time someone attempted rule this vast they fucking died or something like that

[vestal swan]

I never thought about PK reading the AC stuff left behind and thinking it was a good idea that's kind of funny

Most of us assumed he just did half-assed experiments and based his ideas off of a future vision

[steep talon]

I see another takes mantle of king? Then grim responsibility that shall bestow.

No bug has ever laid claim to this whole. Even the beasts knew their limits and bound their realm at Nest's edge.
It is the ancient caste that made attempt at such vast rule. Hallownest's ruin reflects well those fared attempts.

Oh wait, MM isnt talking about vast - big. They're saying vast as in ruling over void

[stark halo]

it's based on Silksong info since we can decipher a tiny bit of the egg we get there and it's like "...No will... No self... Shade..."

[steep talon]

or wait are they, it's kinda hard to interpret

[stark halo]

i thought it was one of pk's eggs at first and then I was like no that doesn't make any sense lmao

[steep talon]

no, okay it is vast as in big. Got confused there for a sec

[steep talon]

probably didnt need to look that deep. Creeps dont have thoughts, yet have soul. So PK was kinda replicating them Id wager

[stark halo]

I could see either interpretation depending on what Nest refers to there tbh

[steep talon]

probably means, Beast could have ruled more land if they expanded to the left of the map. But they didnt cause that's a pain

[stark halo]

"nest's edge" is a weird term since it could mean "everything up to the edges of Hallownest", but if "the beasts" is referring to Deepnest and it's describing why Deepnest wasn't even deeper then "not going all the way to the void" makes a lot of sense I think?

Deepnest and Hallownest both ending in nest makes this difficult lmao

[steep talon]

my ass reading it as Hollownest for the longest time was even more confused

[stark halo]

i don't blame you like half of the lore videos and discussion I've seen have people accidentally calling it hollownest

i do think there's something compelling about the idea that a civilization that once worshipped the void turning into a civilization about controlling it

[manic pewter]

Ok heres the family tree for now, feel free to ping me with things that need to be added/changed (I know adding the radiance as the "parent" of broken vessel is a stretch but i wanted to get her in there somehow)

[steep talon]

why is the radiance connected to broken vessel but not THK?

[stark halo]

my secondary theory there is that the Steel characters we've seen are artificial vessels containing Void shades

[midnight zinc]

The way the PK is situated under GMS and the way Grimm is under the PK bothers me from a design perspective

Also I’d swap Grimm for the Nightmare Heart, and put Grimm next to the Grimmchild under the NMH

[trail cedar]

oh i see ss lore became sk lore ?

[steep talon]

funny, this spirit glade guy almost looks like Karaka. I guess they reused this design for Karakas, a little

[feral thistle]

Why did Silksong kill yaoi bug, is she stupid

[foggy swan]

why did we kill karmelita?

[feral thistle]

No

Green creature

[charred nimbus]

People call The Knight hollow but we all know he has a way better heart then Hornet

[sudden ginkgo]

Hornet wanted to put his heart on a shelf

Bellhome won't decorate itself

[sinful nimbus]

The heart quest gives Green Prince closure and also regrows verdania plantlife

[charred nimbus]

That's literally Hornet propaganda

Hornet paid Team cherry to add that patch

[sudden ginkgo]

Karmelita rage-baited Hornet "Can't defeat me on my peak" or smth. , Hornet took the bait, and under cover of training her strength for pharloom killed another queen.

[sinful nimbus]

Said to Hornet's #1 hater

Having Karmelita as the 4th heart is worse yeah

Hornet when she has to destroy an entire ecosystem because she's bored

(This is not the first time she has done so)

[sudden ginkgo]

has to

[charred nimbus]

Something i always bring up here, let's not forget that Hornet promised meat to a mother so she wouldn't die for her own children, then didn't deliver the meats, and when she finally came back to see that one of the child's remain in the place with his dead mother

Hornet basically says

"I didn't help your mother but i'll help you only if you have something to give me"

[sinful nimbus]

SO TRUE

[sudden ginkgo]

I delivered meat in place

[sudden ginkgo]

And he says "I have something" and hornet just murders them because now the something is not protected enough /silkpost

[charred nimbus]

I guess it makes sense, Hornet is part weaver, she's naturally an asshole

Everytime Hornet does something good it's just Pale king's side acting

[maiden meteor]

Hornet feeling sudden urge to kill one billion children

[charred nimbus]

Hornet could go like: "Oh like, my dad was the greatest guy ever, maybe i should honor him doing something good for once"

[sudden ginkgo]

Starts murdering maggots with electric lasers and bombs

[maiden meteor]

Hornet probably doesn’t really understand why PK went such lengths or smth

For her he killed thousands of vessels for naught

because evidently his plan failed

[toxic mulch]

She knows what he did and why she just thinks he's dumb for thinking he could control the void

[charred nimbus]

I mean, Pale king killed his own children for a greater good, Hornet is straight up killing the vessels because she feels like it

[sudden ginkgo]

She saw it worked for some period thou

[maiden meteor]

tbf she kills vessels because if any other vessel but us got to replace THK things would probably get even worse

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah the vessel killing was cool

Killing the pale children for the greater good is just family tradition

[maiden meteor]

She also probably gave chance to Broken Vessel since it made it all the way to Basin

Or she just killed it down there

also Hornet know suspiciously a lot about whole origin of vessels and Radiance thing

probably White Lady told her

she seems to have taught Hornet about whole void business

Imagine White Lady taking Hornet on a school trip to Siblings mass grave

[sudden ginkgo]

Knight knows a lot too, Hornet could have also wondered around hallownest and read and spoke with everyone

[maiden meteor]

“And this is your dad’s infant dumping site”

[maiden meteor]

I mean we see White Lady telling Hornet about Everbloom and stuff

she probably anticipated Hornet will be involved in ultimate fate of Hallownest

since she also knew Knight would need a void heart

[sudden ginkgo]

Hornet did two things in saving Hallownest, filtered out vessels and held THK for a second.
(Also rescued knight from worm corpse but that's like accident)

[maiden meteor]

I imagine White Lady would be pretty tired if every second vessel was asking her for a Kingsoul

[open thicket]

how does killing a person when you enter their mind cause them to drop a heart?

[maiden meteor]

It’s uh, complicated

[sudden ginkgo]

White lady had a knight on the door and mutated gardens to filter some out, and mantis guy

[maiden meteor]

basically you release their memory power into real world

that manifests into heart

at least I think so

Hearts are basically batteries full of memory juice

[sudden ginkgo]

Knight murdered Void to get its heart

[maiden meteor]

Nah Knight just had to relive their PTSD

[sudden ginkgo]

Nuh, TC just were to lazy to do Shadelord fight there

She could've just traveled back to Hallownest and get some flowers from queen gardens

And then travel back and fight LL without taking damage

[small gate]

Yeah i think the implication is that the heart is summoned from the peak of their memory

Even though theyre either fucking dead or old

[sudden ginkgo]

Actually fragile flower doesn't protect knight from void? Or does it..

[small gate]

Im pretty sure you take damage from vessels with it

[sudden ginkgo]

Did someone went with it to abys

[small gate]

If that was an interaction surely it wouldve been found

It just wasnt a mechanic they thought of

[sudden ginkgo]

Maybe fragile flower is not real thing, and dream nail interaction only

[frank dove]

Knight caring about hornet was kind of hinted at by winged nosk right

[toxic mulch]

It protected the godseeker from void so it's not a retcon at all

[frank dove]

Bc at the start they are just show as the knight bc he cares about no one

Then he cares about hornet so it looks like hornet

A lot of dead bugs in deepnest say they think they saw a deceased loved one

[toxic mulch]

Yes that's nosks ability,it can read minds and mimic loved ones to lure its victims in

[frank dove]

Pk really failed with the whole no mind to think then huh

[maiden meteor]

Hornet-Knight relationship is kinda funny if you think bout it

[toxic mulch]

The vessels were never gonna be hollow

[maiden meteor]

Hornet beats our ass twice and Knight is like “Sis 🥺”

[frank dove]

Yeah bc white lady is grayroot apparently

[toxic mulch]

The only thing he succeeded with for the vessels is no voice to cry suffering

[sudden ginkgo]

im turning on invulnerability and getting fraile flower to abyss

[sterile jacinth]

It was doomed from the start

[maiden meteor]

THK still screams so not really

[toxic mulch]

They may be similar species but they're not the same person

[toxic mulch]

That's radiance not thk

[frank dove]

Wait so confirming it is the radiance screaming in hk fight then

Or opening cutscene

[maiden meteor]

fair

Vessels don’t really have mouths

[frank dove]

Yeah that's what I meant

[maiden meteor]

except Zote the Mighty

[toxic mulch]

Zote isn't a vessel

[frank dove]

Primal aspids were what killed pk

[maiden meteor]

that’s why I crossed it out

[frank dove]

Zote is also child of grayroot like vessels are child of white lady

Which is why they look similar

[maiden meteor]

his Wyrm form no less

[toxic mulch]

Silksong is a sequel how tf could zote and greyroot be related idk where everyone got this idea

[sterile jacinth]

There’s no solid timeline grayroot could be very old

[sudden ginkgo]

Shes a tree, she lives long

[toxic mulch]

Sure but zote mentions having both a mother and father,greyroot seems to reproduce by using a host like a parasite

[sudden ginkgo]

How her twisted bud came all the way to bilewater? I think she is just that long

[sinful nimbus]

Greyroot also doesn't reproduce in the traditional sense but rather rebirths herself

[toxic mulch]

Yes

[sinful nimbus]

Furthermore.... just look at Greyroot and Zote for 5 seconds

[toxic mulch]

The only reason zote looks like a vessel is because Ari wanted zote to be the knights rival/mirror in a way I believe

[sterile jacinth]

Ira absurd and doesn’t really hold up but it’s a fun theory

[sinful nimbus]

I mean vessels are noted to resemble the average joe too

[stark halo]

pretty sure that whole thing is just a shitpost based on zote's nail being made of shellwood while greyroot is from Shellwood lol

[sterile jacinth]

Imagining zote bitching to greyroot now lol

[sudden ginkgo]

White lady and knight also similar

[sinful nimbus]

Greyroot is married to the Greywyrm

[sudden ginkgo]

Gretwyrm dlc

[toxic mulch]

I wonder if zote is an actual prince from his homeland or if he's completely full of shit

[frank dove]

There is a ;ot of evidence

[stark halo]

pk tried a steel soul run and got overrun by primal aspids

[frank dove]

He is called gray prince zote, he says do not trust your mother

[sterile jacinth]

I imagine he’s completely full of shit

[toxic mulch]

He also says something about his father

[sinful nimbus]

There are actually only 3 wyrms, the white wyrm, the grey wyrm, and the black wyrm

[frank dove]

Grayroot wears cloak like vessels and so does zote

[sudden ginkgo]

Maybe zote has cursed crest on

[sinful nimbus]

Man I kinda hate the possibility of there being that few wyrms

[frank dove]

Grayroot is a lot like white lady

[sudden ginkgo]

There were

[frank dove]

White was able to mass-produce vessels

[toxic mulch]

I do wanna know about the blackwyrm,all we know is a brief mention of the battle of blackwyrm

[sterile jacinth]

In a way. I seriously doubt that greyroot is a higher being

[sudden ginkgo]

There is a lot of zotes (in godhome)

[sinful nimbus]

"They both wear cloaks" 💔

[stark halo]

i sort of assumed pk was the last based on bardoon saying "with its like gone"

who's the third Wyrm?

[toxic mulch]

Whatever creature is shown with all the lifeblood doesn't look anything like the cast off shell

[sudden ginkgo]

Ye, last

[frank dove]

In shellwood there are corpse/statue things with void eyes, and most in chapel of the witch, showing grayroot had something to do with void like vessels

[sinful nimbus]

I mean that doesn't say anything about whether or not he was the last

Just that there was a last

[sinful nimbus]

What?

[frank dove]

No I never said she was

[sterile jacinth]

I assumed those were pilgrim statues

[frank dove]

Ye that one is a stretch

[sterile jacinth]

I know I’m just pointing out how they’re different

[frank dove]

Then why void eyes and why so many in chapel of the witch

[toxic mulch]

I think that whole theory is grasping for tiny pieces of "evidence"

[frank dove]

They def are pilgrims but the rebirth thing has something to do with void somewhere

[sterile jacinth]

There’s also pilgrim statues in blasted steps and a hidden one in the vaults and in the backround of the marrow

[toxic mulch]

Oh yeah a lifeblood dlc for silksong is highly likely

[sinful nimbus]

There are no "void eyes"

[frank dove]

Yes there are

[toxic mulch]

Lifeblood wormways seems really underutilized rn

[sinful nimbus]

Black streaks typically indicate tears, if that's what you mean

[toxic mulch]

I can imagine at least 4 dlc packs for silksong, something to do with lifeblood,the steel assassins(pretty much confirmed now as Sharpe's creator is talking with team cherry),a godhome equivalent,more memory sequences

[sterile jacinth]

That sounds about right

I’d love a lace phantom duo fight

[frank dove]

Oh

Are you sure

[sterile jacinth]

And I’d get to pogo them (fuck you signis and gron)

[frank dove]

Last judge is def void as well

[sterile jacinth]

Are the tears the only evidence you have for this?

[toxic mulch]

Pharloom bay being added with a lifeblood storyline would make sense as zylotl says it was first found somewhere with salt or something right?

[sterile jacinth]

Bc it seems highly unlikely

[frank dove]

Yes

[toxic mulch]

Last judge is just a massive judge

[frank dove]

Nah it's prob like soot

[sterile jacinth]

The absence of a better explanation does not make your theory correct. I’m not buying she’s made of void

[stark halo]

last judge has larvae forms in game, so definitely not void lol it's just old stuff

[toxic mulch]

Last judge has just been alive for quite a while and her armor is getting dirty from all the dust and grime in blasted steps

[stark halo]

yeah I've been wondering the same about Karn

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah she’s also haunted

[frank dove]

Yeah I agree but I think we should still associate black tears with void should we not?

[sterile jacinth]

You do get sharpdart but other than that I think it’s just a place the weavers planned their rebellion

[toxic mulch]

No

[sterile jacinth]

Maybe. Don’t we only see that with the godseeker though?

[toxic mulch]

The most obvious example is no eyes isn't void and has the black tears

[frank dove]

Use hacks and go through the cieling

Similar room in bellhart