sk-lore

[sterile jacinth]

Didn’t Karm unite the Skarr tribes?

[lavish tangle]

She would have to be, everyone died before hornet which would include any ants that may be in hallownest, which would include a queen potentially

[frosty gate]

To protect them aginst the haunting

[lavish tangle]

Since before gms you mean?

[sterile jacinth]

Well yes but I’m refuting the claim she’s the last of a lineage

[lavish tangle]

Verdania’s fall is relatively recent as the cog work dancers were made before it happened

[spark valve]

Pharloom was not born of that monarch, Old One. Power existed in these lands even before she bound them beneath her.
Grnk. Seek the old hearts of our kingdom and the last successors to bear their strength.

[sterile jacinth]

I can accept Kahnn as being the last of a lineage

[lavish tangle]

She united the tribes means there were multiple tribes initially meaning she could be a descendant of a queen of one of the tribes

[sterile jacinth]

That’s true

[frosty gate]

"First of the first"

[lavish tangle]

What I meant is if khan fell to a pale light it means he was kicking around before it

[misty stirrup]

Named first weaver in the files

Also is most probably Atla

[lavish tangle]

This doesn’t mean anything, “first of the first” does change things, but why are we going back to that

[marsh wagon]

why do we enter the red memory

[misty stirrup]

Atla is called the on who knows all weaver history, meaning the oldest

[lavish tangle]

They resisted the pale light, that means they had to be around before it

[misty stirrup]

Why does bro imply he's the last one standing?

[lavish tangle]

Thanks

[sinful nimbus]

Atla is not called that

[spark valve]

being the historian doesn't mean you were the first to exist

[terse warren]

Still can just mean the Silk power rather than GMS directly tbh

[lavish tangle]

He is not dead when we meet him btw, he didn’t turn to crust yet

[marsh wagon]

is this our home?? i thought we were born in the white knigdom

[misty stirrup]

Fair, but she's the only one to know the weavers full history

[lavish tangle]

Daughter of 3 queens story line

[lavish tangle]

Anyone from the first generation would

[terse warren]

A lot of other things are "very specific" and yet don't actually mean GMS and also just like

[sinful nimbus]

GMS didn't really do anything

[misty stirrup]

He says alone, none to resist but them

Which is hilarious if he fell first

[wintry flame]

Khann could have won if instead of blasting steps he focused on the underworks

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet attributes suffering indirectly caused by pale beings existing to them as if it was intentional or their actions because she's an agendaposter

[misty stirrup]

Karmelita fell last I think?

[marsh wagon]

whos the 3 queens

[wintry flame]

me, karmelita and queen deltarune (surrogate)

[lavish tangle]

The crust kings believed themselves to be the best and only warrior society, and technically there is that one secret guy you can fight so they were still standing

[misty stirrup]

I never understood why she blamed GMS for Verdania

[marsh wagon]

khan isa girl bruh?

[lavish tangle]

Herrah, white lady, Vespa

[wintry flame]

i am a girl

[marsh wagon]

so the daddy is the pale king and he got 3 wives

[misty stirrup]

I like the tardigrade theory, they're all alive just dry and Crusty af

[wintry flame]

they were! The only thing that held Khann back was probably him being a very shitty bossfight

[sacred heath]

nope

[lavish tangle]

Daddy is pale king and mommy is herrah, Vespa trained her and the white lady raised her

[grand star]

why are seemingly completely void creatures capable of conciousness? like collector

[sinful nimbus]

-# (Bad writing)

[marsh wagon]

why didnt her mom and dad raise her

[spark valve]

void doesn't stop that from happening

[misty stirrup]

I read it as Hornet being an unreliable narrator

[lavish tangle]

Pale king was busy with the vessels and herrah was a dreamer from the first game

[sinful nimbus]

Collector has the essence of the bug who held the love key

[terse warren]

Omg Star you're finally based???

[marsh wagon]

shes so cute

[lavish tangle]

That is herrah, also did you play the original hollow knight or nah (curious)

[misty stirrup]

She's having the "my nature is so evil arc" , her dialogue about Pale Beings doesn't make any sense when looking at PK or WL. And GMS was too busy being enslaved in sleep to do anything

[grand star]

verdania was the weavers doing right

[sinful nimbus]

Indeed

[misty stirrup]

Conductors

[spark valve]

verdania was conductors

[grand star]

mixed answers

[lavish tangle]

And the weavers, both were in on it

[sinful nimbus]

Heck nah the collectors are an overarching group too?

[terse warren]

@vivid kernel the shamans talk about the old hearts being the last to receive the power in the line and it'd be kinda silly if the latest one was like millennia ago lol, I don't think it's meant to be GMS directly in any dialogue tbh unless when it's actually made explicit

[misty stirrup]

The GP lover was sacrificed as a bargain for the citadel. Presumably for the citadel to give something in return (they didn't give diddly squat)

[spark valve]

the robot shit was conductor era stuff

[nimble rapids]

Hello

[wintry flame]

verdania is regrowing though 👁️

[terse warren]

Yeah that or Weavers

[wintry flame]

i think most of what we see of bilewater was previously verdania

[grand star]

i guess you could read it as, the GMS encouraged the weavers to believe themselves to be superior to the other civilizations and that passed on to the citadel in general

[sinful nimbus]

The only reason GMS didn't do anything to these tribes is because she's the weakest higher being btw

[lavish tangle]

Early conductor era, the architects built the cog work dancers and the weavers were still around making sure this thing works before leaving for hallownest

[misty stirrup]

Why didnt the GP and his lover just kill eachother to save Verdania, are they stupid?

[spark valve]

amazing every part of this is wrong

[sinful nimbus]

Citadel weavers all kicked the bucket they didn't leave for Hallownest

[lavish tangle]

Verdania fell when his lover died, if they both died it would have been worse

[wintry flame]

saves us a pretty trivial bossfight. Why not!

[terse warren]

Tbh it's also worth to note stuff like the Sentinels were made before the Cogwork Core do they were big on robots very early on

[sinful nimbus]

That was a portion of the Cindril weavers

[spark valve]

the conversion to robots was towards the end of the citadel's reign

[lavish tangle]

Map under the fast charm area

[frosty gate]

How do you guys think FS knew it was all fake?

[sinful nimbus]

Cindril is pre-Citadel

[spark valve]

was not made by citadel weavers

[terse warren]

12th architect actually says the Sentinels were made "before the core"

[misty stirrup]

Architects were made by weavers I'm quite sure

The weavers were thr one to give them the programming

[frosty gate]

Yeah, it all makes sense

[small gate]

why are you differentiating citadel weavers

we dont know if there is a difference

[spark valve]

yes but the large scale change was later and cogwork dancers are a part of core

[spark valve]

yes we do the cindril weavers left before the citadel therefore were not part of the citadel

[sinful nimbus]

The weavers in charge of the Citadel died according to the Ballador rune harp while the Cindril weavers (Who fled before the Citadel was even established) did not

[misty stirrup]

Conductors are responsible for: - underworks and Cog core , memorium and possibly some expansion?

[lavish tangle]

There is a weaver of time, the weavers knew that the half daughter would return and so some stayed to give her powers (by binding) and some left

[spark valve]

that is not what the rune harp says

and is inconsistent with the cindril harp etc

and the ballador harp it's just wrong

[lavish tangle]

What do they all say

[misty stirrup]

I'm not sure the weaver citadel would have an exhaust without an underworks

[spark valve]

obviously not written around the same time

[sinful nimbus]

The latter is the aforementioned Ballador harp and reveals that the weavers in charge of the Citadel died

[lavish tangle]

Yes but they share the same overarching plan

[spark valve]

no they don't

the cindril weavers left to start anew

[lavish tangle]

Leave and wait for the chosen one to come back?

[frosty gate]

Wait, I'm lost, what's the argument here with the Harps?

[spark valve]

reading is hard isn't it

[sinful nimbus]

Cindril weavers weren't doing it for a chosen one

[misty stirrup]

As for the above message, GMS is really only responsible for the Haunting (Assuming she does this consciously, she may not) and being a dead beat parent

[spark valve]

To start anew, to sustain, free of web and service eternal
they aren't planning on coming back

[lavish tangle]

“We shall die, and wait, and pray. That one may come of silken strength enough to weave us free”

[misty stirrup]

They're coming back with the demigod child

[sinful nimbus]

That isn't in Cindril

[spark valve]

the citadel weavers were just hoping it would happen it wasn't part of the cindril plan

[spark valve]

hk fans can't read

they left to start anew

[sinful nimbus]

Cindril weavers weren't hoping to... stop the Citadel that hadn't existed at that point in time

[lavish tangle]

Would being able to actually breed and make a demigod child not be starting anew

[spark valve]

not if they were doing it just to come back it wouldn't

[lavish tangle]

Defeating your enslaver is not starting anew??

[sinful nimbus]

Herrah explicitly wasn't doing it for any ulterior motive as per her words in Red Memory

[frosty gate]

Why are we suddenly dividing Wavers between Cindril and Citadel???

[spark valve]

because there is a divide between them

[lavish tangle]

Yes but also that same dialogue shows the other weavers were

[frosty gate]

Which is?

[spark valve]

they wanted her to be their queen not to come back to pharloom lmao

[spark valve]

cindril: fled gms, started anew in other kingdoms
citadel: put gms to sleep, kept her that way, died out believing she was stuck that way forever

[misty stirrup]

We shall die, and wait, and pray, that one may come of silken strength enough to weave us free."

[lavish tangle]

Future site bug makes a plan that fails due to the free will of the person carrying out the plan where have a I seen that before

[misty stirrup]

Last word of the weavers

[spark valve]

[lavish tangle]

How would they believe she is stuck that way forever if they were waiting on someone of silken strength to return

[spark valve]

atla didn't have future vision you just made that up

[lavish tangle]

There is a weaver of time no?

[spark valve]

Sisters, spiders, the burden is passed. These simple bugs shall bear it full. Never to cease. Never to silence.

💀

[lavish tangle]

Continue the line

Keep going and give us the actual last words and not the second las line

[spark valve]

they think she's going to be kept asleep but they also see that as a burden you cannot be serious

[sinful nimbus]

They thought the Citadel would continue indefinitely but were also hoping someone came up to get rid of GMS for good

[spark valve]

those are not mutually exclusive

that's a whole through line that keeping gms asleep is a burden

[sinful nimbus]

Again this is written by the Citadel not the Cindril weavers who had different goals and fled before the Citadel was even established

[frosty gate]

You do understand that Weavers couldn't flee without GMS asleep, right?
They all put GMS asleep minus Widow.

Some fled to save themselves, others stayed to rule and find a way to kill GMS

[spark valve]

they could flee

you just made that up

that's the entire point of cindril and the silkspeed anklets

[sinful nimbus]

The harp says to flee from GMS so obviously it was possible

[spark valve]

they can run far enough and fast enough to escape her sight it literally says it right there

[lavish tangle]

Cindril is a map and the anklets are literally still there they were not taken

[spark valve]

they
made
many

[sinful nimbus]

Those anklets aren't even fully functional

[spark valve]

the ones that were left behind were experimental they were prototypes

[lavish tangle]

If they could just leave why didn’t they all leave

[small gate]

they couldnt all leave

[spark valve]

because different groups had different approaches to dealing with gms

[sinful nimbus]

Why do different people do different things

[frosty gate]

They literally can't, that's the whole point of putting her asleep

[spark valve]

you just made that up

[sinful nimbus]

The Citadel weavers were also like full blown evil and wanted to be in power

[small gate]

but also this doesnt mean they fled before the citadel was established

[spark valve]

putting her to sleep was a power play

[small gate]

in fact quite on the contrary

[spark valve]

yes it does

[sinful nimbus]

If the Citadel was established they would not be running from GMS because she'd be... asleep

[lavish tangle]

Power corrupts and if you managed to (essentially) slay a god yeah it would get to your head

[small gate]

theyd need her to be asleep to flee

[spark valve]

if the citadel was constructed they wouldn't be fleeing her silken sight

[small gate]

yes they would

[spark valve]

they don't they can just leave

[small gate]

its "a burdern"

[spark valve]

she doesn't physically block the exits to pharloom

[small gate]

brother shes their god

[grand star]

she’s literally a god

[spark valve]

who they are betraying

[lavish tangle]

We know that even while she was sleeping and just starting to wake up the haunting happened, her being asleep is not her being powerless

[small gate]

yes!

[grand star]

who can mind control people

[spark valve]

this is due to the citadel falling silent which they believed wouldn't happen

[frosty gate]

She was still considered the true ruler and presumably had to be kept being sung to all day

[sinful nimbus]

The haunting happened after the Citadel weavers all died out

[spark valve]

she can't mind control the weavers to stop them betraying her if she could the citadel wouldn't exist in the first place, they used similar means to hide their escape plan as those who made the snare setter used to hide that that's what the weavenests were for

[misty stirrup]

The Haunting started just before the Cog core was completed , literally at the last possible second before GMS would be asleep permanently. She kinda clutched ngl

[sinful nimbus]

True...

[grand star]

GMS honestly didn’t do anything wrong

[sinful nimbus]

Well something would've gone wrong eventually but it was quite convenient

[nimble ocean]

She ended three civilizations

[lavish tangle]

Why would the citadel weavers who believed gms would be asleep for eternity want her to be killed still, what burden is it

[small gate]

why did the citadel go silent again

[spark valve]

mass mind control and forcing servitude on the weavers etc

[sinful nimbus]

Haunting

[grand star]

you just hate her because she is a woman

[frosty gate]

Conductors became lazy

[small gate]

typical politician

all silk, no song

[spark valve]

it's called a burden repeatedly they obviously saw it that way, both them and the conductors

[misty stirrup]

She made the weavers with an explicit purpose in mind , abandoned Phantom and made Lace insane by design. She's bad but not the worst

[nimble ocean]

Exactly

[frosty gate]

Unironically true

[misty stirrup]

She's likely only ended Karak (and that's arguable)

[spark valve]

mass mind control is bad

[sinful nimbus]

Why did TC make a species which is entirely comprised of woman and created by a woman inherently evil and then make their creator also incredibly evil? Are they sexist?

[lavish tangle]

More so the conductors realized the song was a spell to keep her prisoner and they were like “we ain’t doing that that wasn’t what we agreed to”

[small gate]

no theyre australian

[grand star]

it’s implied that anyone GMS ever hurt deserved it

[frosty gate]

It's implied the Conductors always knew

[sinful nimbus]

TC also made the one environmental conservationist a power hungry greedy villain, kinda weird man

[misty stirrup]

There's a debate if it's a conscious act or her underlying nature. Or a debate about what the haunting even is

[spark valve]

no it isn't

[lavish tangle]

Not always, but they didn’t back out instantly

[frosty gate]

I think they just became negligent after the core was done

[lavish tangle]

Makes sense

[small gate]

why did GMS have to create a whole order of beings just to worship her when shes Silk incarnate? is she stupid?

[lavish tangle]

She wanted kids but wanted them to always be kids

[sinful nimbus]

First Silksong was mid and then Deadbeat releases a month later and its also mid the australian artists are really lacking tbh

[grand star]

the citadel enslaved people and destroyed civilizations
karak was a dictatorship
verdania had a re-used boss fight

let’s face it, all the civilizations were evil

[lavish tangle]

Silksong is not mid

[spark valve]

but those aren't the only people hurt by the haunting

[muted lantern]

so every one of the children, pilgrims, civilians that were killed by the haunting had it coming?

[nimble ocean]

Btw love nausicaa

[sinful nimbus]

You're right its TERRIBLE

[sinful nimbus]

Based...

[small gate]

karak was a dictatorship
we dont see a single remote speck of democracy in this universe

[grand star]

that was probably not even GMS

[small gate]

what could it mean........

[lavish tangle]

“Verdania had a reused boss fight” the evilest of them all

[grand star]

bellhart

[spark valve]

"Yeah there are some bad people in power here that means nuking it is justified even if all the innocents die too they deserved it for existing in proximity to them"

[muted lantern]

so if your government commits a crime its a ok to kill all the civilians under it?

[muted lantern]

the haunting explicitly comes from gms what are you even talking about

[lavish tangle]

Ngl Nora got y’all with his ragebait

[grand star]

notice how GMS, a woman, is called evil by the silksong players

[muted lantern]

lol

[lavish tangle]

Sexism smh

[muted lantern]

i just got here man...

[misty stirrup]

The conductors were the one who issued the Choral Commandments to retrieve the weavers GMS just picked up the torch, surprisingly GMS is moreso sad and sorrowful rather than angry about her betrayal.

[small gate]

bellheart is a dictatorship maintained by a centralized banking system (frey holds all the money)

[lavish tangle]

Fair lol

[spark valve]

no they were already haunted at that time

[misty stirrup]

There's a non 0 chance that Khann the conqueror waged an offensive war against GMS and I find that hilarious

[grand star]

did they win

[spark valve]

Bugs like these crossed the caves to bring me to Pharloom. I cut down many before my capture. Then I had thought them minded and cunning. Now I see the singular will that haunts them all.

[sinful nimbus]

The choral commandment is the single dumbest piece of lore in the game and I hope it dies in a fire

[obtuse creek]

Probably that this world exists in a feudal/manorial structure lol. There’s some evidence that some kind of parliamentary system may have existed in the citadel with the high halls having a chamber called the forum but whether the bugs in it were elected (and if so, what determines eligibility for holding the office) or merely appointed is unknown

[lavish tangle]

Also shows how far the haunting can reach

[sinful nimbus]

Well its more like the 20th dumbest piece of lore in the game

[misty stirrup]

The last edict of the Conductors is the one about establishing the Cog core , the scroll is described as being older than the last edict. The captors were haunted yes, but that's GMS picking up the torch

[teal drift]

Tbh the citadel is the closest to democracy we get in the seties

[spark valve]

idk hornet being able to just muscle out of a rune cage arbitrarily is something

[small gate]

i think so since khann gets to sit on his ass all day

[dire sinew]

gms is a commentary on the matriarchy

[sinful nimbus]

Fueled by pure raw hatred for the flies

[teal drift]

Gms is the amazing divine feminine who everyone scorns due to their ignorance

[dire sinew]

which one was that

[spark valve]

it's not described as being old it's described as being dirty and worn
like would happen when it was carried across sand blasted wastes twice

it's also not described comparatively to the last edict at all

[sinful nimbus]

The one about Hornet

[misty stirrup]

Well then who would've issues the Commandment then?

The conductors aren't haunted they have their own silk - see Ballador

[spark valve]

haunted like hk's infected act out their roles it would've been a haunted bug who wrote it

[foggy fractal]

peak writing !

[teal drift]

Haunted entities still go about their jobs to some extent, theyre just also insane and violent

[humble peak]

it's just the infection but without an explosive later phase tbh

[misty stirrup]

I don't think GMS can impose her will on haunted Bugs

[small gate]

why would she not

[misty stirrup]

Otherwise the flies would take you to the cradle rather than the slab

[spark valve]

Bugs like these crossed the caves to bring me to Pharloom. I cut down many before my capture. Then I had thought them minded and cunning. Now I see the singular will that haunts them all.

[small gate]

well

[teal drift]

Gms is ambiguously awake for all of the haunting too so her will isnt even super clear

[small gate]

it is true that the kidnappers could ahve just been continuing their duty

[lavish tangle]

Slab so you are there until you are weakened, then cradle

[teal drift]

Like theyre carrying out a duty they dont really understand and theyre possessed and connected to an infuriated sleeping god

[lavish tangle]

She’s not even mad let alone infuriated

[misty stirrup]

She was already bringing Hornet up to the cradle, I don't think she changed her mind halfway through

[small gate]

shes probably a bit mad

like a disappointed mother

[misty stirrup]

She's just big sad she was betrayed unironically

[small gate]

which is what she is

[teal drift]

I kinda think she is mad but then again gms is innocent of all sins

[lavish tangle]

Hornet was weakened when she was brought to the cradle, then she regained some power, so a 2nd round of weakening is needed

[misty stirrup]

Pavo describes them as strange sad sorrowful memories/feelings

[sinful nimbus]

After Hornet breaks out in the beginning of the game the goal switches from absorb Hornet to kill her

[small gate]

could it not be widow's

[misty stirrup]

Widow is angry

[humble peak]

actually where tf was hornet being brought anyway
like the collapse was in the bridge between blasted steps and shellwood... where in shellwood were they going??

[misty stirrup]

Very, very angry

[small gate]

not, lace specifically revolts and tries to kill hornet so shes not absorbed

[sacred heath]

bellway maybe

[frosty gate]

Ok wait I just realized that Eva calls Lifeblood "The Forbidden blood", damn

[misty stirrup]

Actual question: how would they get to the cradle

[lavish tangle]

But wait, it was closed

[humble peak]

but the bell beast is trapped... ig they could have not known

[small gate]

elevator, surely

[misty stirrup]

Are they gonna ask Ballador nicely for the 3fold melody?

[humble peak]

when?

[lavish tangle]

But that is also closed from the outside

[humble peak]

oh she has dialogue

[small gate]

i mean surely they have access

[frosty gate]

Visiting while full of lifeblood

"Come no closer! I sense the forbidden blood coursing through you, that which grows and reshapes the world in its own vulgar image.
Whether it was imbibed willingly or not, none shall be allowed into this chamber while so afflicted. Begone!"

[lavish tangle]

Go there while you have like 9 lifeblood masks

[small gate]

theyre the fucking kidnapping caravan

[lavish tangle]

I meant the cradle ventrica was locked from the outside

[misty stirrup]

The cage ain't fitting in the ventrica anyway

[dire sinew]

just "go get the half wyrm girl" doesn't strike me as odd

[gray iris]

i bet lifeblood tastes like baja blast

[humble peak]

I didn't know you could talk to her I thought you just weren;t allowed in the room

[gray iris]

and the orange shit from hollow knight 1 tastes like fanta

[misty stirrup]

I mean an actual good question how tf would they bring Hornet up to gms

[sinful nimbus]

The fact that an order was needed to do that is strange but its mostly whatever

[humble peak]

they hadn't thought that far ahead ig

[spark valve]

it's not stranger than the haunted pilgrims praying

[misty stirrup]

Hoe did the other weaver cages end up in the cradle

[lavish tangle]

No because we see other cages up there so there is a route up there

[dire sinew]

why

[sinful nimbus]

That doesn't inconvenience me in lore arguments

[misty stirrup]

It must be someone who has access to the cradle/3fold melody

[humble peak]

i mean ig we could also ask how Lace gets up there

[gray iris]

i wonder how much fanta u could squeeze out of the radiance u could probably milk her to fill a whole bathtub with fanta

[spark valve]

haunting is just infection 2 in spite of the mind control they still act out their tendencies

[humble peak]

staff door ig

[unique tangle]

They went through lace’s secret back door

[humble peak]

please never refer to "milking" the radiance again

[misty stirrup]

Lace just jumps

[unique tangle]

Which she uses to go between the cradle and the citadel

[lavish tangle]

The melody wouldn’t help you still need to flip the structure which happens after you defeat the cogwork dancers

[gray iris]

i bet in hollow knight 3 the final boss with a baja blast blue butterfly

[dire sinew]

her mom is the government she can do whatever she wants. or like the teleporting powers she does have

[gray iris]

milk the radiance milk the radiance radiance milk

[lavish tangle]

Milking gms makes more sense being spider like and all

(The process is called spider milking I did not make that up it’s when you get the silk out of the spider)

[misty stirrup]

Do not Google what they do to spiders irl to harvest their silk

[dire sinew]

well with the infection some bugs still remembered stuff about their life before they were infected and ended up repeating themselves

[gray iris]

hollow knight 3 will be about zote uncovering the secrets of life blood and its gonan turn out a baja blast butterfly is trying to kill the abyss or or something sk zote side with the abyss to use lifeblood to save hallownest

[sinful nimbus]

I mean that's true of the haunting too

[spark valve]

yes that happens with haunting too. GMS probably is not instructing the pilgrim grovellers to stop and pray to the structure that forced her into slumber

[humble peak]

ok i looked this up and i'm getting more stuff on milking for venom
but you do unfortunately seem to be right

[lavish tangle]

We see a few bugs partly infected
Myla
Sly
Brett’s

[lavish tangle]

Kratt brothers taught me well

[humble peak]

but we don't see anyone "partly" haunted, oddly enough

[sinful nimbus]

These rooms from the august map were never used right?

[lavish tangle]

We even see a before and after with the vendor of bone bottom

[humble peak]

yeah
we see before and after with a few guys

[spark valve]

isn't that the coral tower and the surface climb

[humble peak]

we see a few guys get taken in full time

[lavish tangle]

Wait who else

[sinful nimbus]

Oh yeah

The Lifeblood spire is unused though

[humble peak]

the guy outside pilgrim's rest

[spark valve]

is that lifeblood spire

[misty stirrup]

Ok but lowk what is the haunting

[lavish tangle]

Huh

[spark valve]

oh the bottom right thing yeah that's unused

[misty stirrup]

Why do the bugs still attack after GMS gets sent to the void

[sinful nimbus]

Did they only cut it from the files in August

[empty scarab]

is the styx dude a mature silk eater

[dire sinew]

do i have poor reading comprehension or did you just explain why what you said isn't weird

[gray iris]

it is so cool how hornet can activate health regen by filling herself with lifeblood i wish i could get healthier by injecting myself with mt dew

[lavish tangle]

I will pupeteer you but you have memories so you still do your thing mindlessly
Aka infection 2

[humble peak]

no

[empty scarab]

elaborate

[misty stirrup]

When gms gets sent to the void and her silk haunting things are cut, the enemies still attack you

[lavish tangle]

We know he grows a queen to make more

[humble peak]

there is no resemblance or thing to suggest he is the same thing

[small gate]

it eats silk eaters

[humble peak]

he just cultivates them

[spark valve]

that's the point the choral commandment isn't weird it's in line with other haunted bugs

[small gate]

theyre not cut

[empty scarab]

yeah it's pretty normal to eat our own childrens isn't it

[lavish tangle]

They are not cut, they are covered in void, they get cut in the final cutscene after you beat lost lace

[empty scarab]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1088003454976413726/1394507389796876328/why_so_orange.gif

[humble peak]

though there are still a lot of regular haunted enemies in act 3
what's up with that?

[lavish tangle]

Yum

[lavish tangle]

Void takes time ?

[gray iris]

the void wanted to take over pharloom thats why it use gms strings to hijack the haunting

[small gate]

not every thread is covered in void

[sinful nimbus]

mm I need Barnacle Bay

[empty scarab]

silk thread covered in silk

[sinful nimbus]

The layout looked so unique

[lavish tangle]

DLC

[sinful nimbus]

Same with the Gloom but there's no chance of that coming back 😔

[misty stirrup]

When you play needolin you see her strings are absent

[humble peak]

gloom?

[misty stirrup]

Also she's a bit busy to give out orders

[small gate]

shes not giving direct orders during the haunting either

[lavish tangle]

the opposite, you see the string vibrate affecting the void on it

[small gate]

not to all bugs

[humble peak]

ig even with her not directly haunting anyone anymore the effect lingers while she's alive

[gray iris]

the snail people are abyss people thats why they give u the trap to put mother silk in the abyss so the abyss can take over pharloom thats why groal kill a snail guy to take their power and save his land from the abyss

[misty stirrup]

I meant the enemies, nit the environment. The enemies lack the previous threads

[lavish tangle]

Silk made from soul void eats soul, but void doesn’t have a true will so it kinda just keeps things as is

[sinful nimbus]

What was he cooking?

[gray iris]

groal is the true hero of hollow knight 2 save his land from both mother silk and abyss

[lavish tangle]

Groal can go to hell

[gray iris]

you can put all the emojis u want my word is truth

[empty scarab]

what the

when did it turn purple

[spark valve]

groal also sucks being the enemy of an evil faction doesn't make you good

[empty scarab]

is it modded

[lavish tangle]

Cut content

[sinful nimbus]

That's from the trailer

Look how they massacred my boy

[foggy fractal]

the 2019 one btw

[dire sinew]

groal was not even memorable besides his spell using thing

[sinful nimbus]

(The trypophobia is cool though)

[gray iris]

i love groal so much when they make godhome 2 they should call him groal the extra great

[lavish tangle]

Do you think it was purple because different plan or as an anti spoiler

[empty scarab]

they put bro in the abyss

[sinful nimbus]

Different plan

[lavish tangle]

The run back was memorable

[foggy fractal]

btw star have I shown you the coloured version of the fake boss screenshot I'm making

[sinful nimbus]

No send

[gray iris]

i bet mother silk made hornets mom from a big roach from bilewater thats why she is so fat

[lavish tangle]

No she just ate a lot being royalty and all

[dire sinew]

i did groal on my first try the gauntlet took me two tries

[gray iris]

so hornet is not part spider she is actually just a little roach

[empty scarab]

are the things in the mist made of silk

[sinful nimbus]

Yes

[gray iris]

no they are made of bug soul

[lavish tangle]

Lucky, I didn’t upgrade my nail and so it took me like 5-7 attempts and I didn’t know about the secret bench

[dire sinew]

oo actually what is the lore behind the mist i forgot aboot the place

[empty scarab]

uhh yes or no

[empty scarab]

a random place where they put mist in it

and named it after that

[lavish tangle]

Mist thingies are silk

[vestal swan]

Phantoms organ music and noxious fumes fueled illusion

[sinful nimbus]

Magic spell or Hornet high on Citadel fumes

[gray iris]

no they are not they are bug souls the float around like in whiteward the reason hornet get silk from the ghosts is that she has the ability to convert soul to silk they are not made of silk she just converts them to silk

[vestal swan]

Don't they not give silk?

[lavish tangle]

Except the guys that steal your silk they are real

[silk dirge]

they do

[lavish tangle]

They do I know because I used them to heal

[silk dirge]

i farmed them

[sinful nimbus]

The Silk wraiths are definitely magic spells

[empty scarab]

i mean most of things in the game give silk

[vestal swan]

Misremembered, for some reason I remember not having any silk on my run through there

[sinful nimbus]

That's because they STEAL your silk 🥹

[lavish tangle]

Silk projection of phantoms will so they can gather silk so phantom doesn’t fucking die

[silk dirge]

speaking of that whats up with clawmaidens

[empty scarab]

look you get silk from goddam plants

[vestal swan]

Right, my brain works

[sinful nimbus]

Why did TC add an enemy that steals your healing and spends half the time out of bounds

[dire sinew]

when will the pharscribe bot be made

[sinful nimbus]

TRUE

[lavish tangle]

Preparation for act 3 void

[silk dirge]

clawmaidens seem like "simple automatons" which dont need silkflies

[foggy fractal]

2

[silk dirge]

the others being cogflies

[empty scarab]

wait who is that again

[sinful nimbus]

The dastardly robots who steal your silk

[silk dirge]

the kkk looking mfs who steal your silk in the citadel

[empty scarab]

i think cogflies are powered by hornet sil-

[sinful nimbus]

[lavish tangle]

The ones the enemies have

[empty scarab]

oh

[lavish tangle]

Also no when a tool uses silk it actually uses silk

[lavish tangle]

This emoji but it’s moorwing

[empty scarab]

why wouldn't there be an exeption

[dire sinew]

they're powered by ai

[silk dirge]

how do the maestros conduct them then

[sinful nimbus]

I remembered it being Clawsmaiden wtf

[lavish tangle]

Silk shot uses your silk and it isn’t a balance thing

[sinful nimbus]

The wingsmould mandela effect strikes again

[dire sinew]

Why my bus driver playing Ozzy Osbourne

[empty scarab]

they are secretly weavers (trust)

[lavish tangle]

He cool like that

[sinful nimbus]

Wow this singing is horrendous https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Clawmaiden

[misty stirrup]

If Lace has to upkeep Silk from Hornet to not commit die. How much Silk does Lace have to consume before she ceases being Lace? - Lace of Theseus

[dire sinew]

he gives out vocal commandments and they move

[foggy fractal]

but what if they are singing about how hornet sucks

[sinful nimbus]

Based..

[lavish tangle]

Hot take: the big bugs that spin their silk at you are better at it that hornet

Proof: bestiary says they fling a spool of silk around, meaning no silk gets used as they drop the spool after they die sometimes

[silk dirge]

i need hornet to go "olares" "vecta" now

[sinful nimbus]

They sing about stealing from Hornet so lyrically its alright

[silk dirge]

"ours by birth" mf your a robot

[dire sinew]

Which one is that

[lavish tangle]

Left and right of the cog work dancers fight

[misty stirrup]

How come clawmaidens have pale nails

[silk dirge]

clawmaidens dont release silkflies right

i think they run purely on silk

[foggy fractal]

these guys would be cool if they didn't attack us :C dude's just like a ball

[dire sinew]

tc making goombas

[sinful nimbus]

They still the coolest faction in the game fr

[lavish tangle]

Ô < him

[silk dirge]

yeah

[dire sinew]

what

[foggy fractal]

I also like how some characters such as him bounce so much in their idle animation

[sinful nimbus]

https://tenor.com/view/silksong-crawfather-court-of-craws-gif-6468018594307154525

[silk dirge]

no line of dialog will ever top "the spinderous spiderling"

[sinful nimbus]

Crawfather hasn't changed a bit since his concept art

[foggy fractal]

I also like the vfx he and phantom has when striking the ground

[lavish tangle]

Remember this guy is a bug, the beak is for asthetic

[silk dirge]

OBJECTION

[foggy fractal]

no idea who that is in the top left of the right page, but the right page seemingly has early Seth concepts

[sinful nimbus]

Sinner! I say sinner! 🗣️
A calamitous criminal 🥶

[lavish tangle]

Could have used a hammer but no the beak is cooler

[silk dirge]

vaultborn

[dire sinew]

who says this 😭

[silk dirge]

crawfather needolin

[foggy fractal]

top left of right page

[silk dirge]

that is the top left

[sinful nimbus]

The flower scarf goes hard

OGs remember the flea scarf theory

[lavish tangle]

Wait is that trobbioo

[foggy fractal]

so you're telling me this is a vaultborn ?

[silk dirge]

vaultborn are the silliest enemy

[silk dirge]

oh i was looking at the whole book

i was looking top left of the entire image

[foggy fractal]

😭 I literally clarified the RIGHT page

[silk dirge]

i did not see that

[lavish tangle]

Wait that ain’t a scarf that his cheeks

[foggy fractal]

yeah is this just a concept for a character we never saw then

very juicy stuff

[lavish tangle]

Tf is he chewing on

[silk dirge]

anyways yeah i love vaultborn

theyre such a big fuck you for exploring lmao

hornets journal entry for them is also silly

"these mfs are really annoying and its all my fault"

[lone folio]

That a fayborn or something?

Looks like a Mount fay guy

[silk dirge]

that does not look like a driftlin

[empty scarab]

elaborate

[foggy fractal]

no idea but maybe given the eyes and spikes on the head

[sinful nimbus]

Corpse-run mechanic reference???

[silk dirge]

early fayforn concept?

[foggy fractal]

no no

that's here

left page

[lone folio]

The little horns the shape of the head and the two wierd lump things kind of remind me of the wings

[empty scarab]

uhhhh idk

[steep talon]

it has a tail?

[lone folio]

Though that one has limbs

[foggy fractal]

hard to tell

[steep talon]

oh shit early concept for ass jim

[charred nimbus]

I don't remember wich plants gives silk, i remember the Moss mother eggs wich we are basically killing her children and turning their soul into silk...

[silk dirge]

how my notebook looks after a boring class except with way less good art

[empty scarab]

shellwood flowers on the walls

[charred nimbus]

the ones that spit?

[charred fern]

Why can hornet craft all those tools but not make rosary strings herself like shes a weaver bro

[empty scarab]

nyleth too i think

[lone folio]

Those silk catcher flowers

[steep talon]

its hands kinda look like crab claws maybe. Yeah im not sure what im looking at

[charred nimbus]

I mean, they already have silk in then, it's not the actual flower giving silk right?

[marsh wagon]

yes i did

[lone folio]

I'm not too sure on what they are

They probably just catch it

[charred nimbus]

Yeah

[lone folio]

Either intentionally or by accident

[charred nimbus]

I mean, that doens't help the commentary that seens like everything gives silk in the game, silk has a pretty logical thing behind then in Silksong...

it's not like you just extracting silk from a plain flower

[silk dirge]

good question tbh

her needle doesnt fit probably

but idk other pilgrims have no issue doing it

[honest sun]

what did you just said

[ocean crown]

silk

[foggy fractal]

any significance to the same spikes and rocks they both have

on the ground

[silk dirge]

probably just steel architecture

[spark valve]

Idk it’s weird that zi set up decor in a random cave but whatever

It’s possible they’re functional as part of whatever magic is going on

[silk dirge]

i mean if you found a nice cozy cave wouldnt you do the same

i would

(i would not)

[dawn sluice]

it makes sense considering how her existence is the result of weavers fleeing their homeland due to a CERTAIN higher being, and how she was born and raised as the dreamers were going to sleep, a time where hallownest quickly fell after

[spark valve]

If I was a robot who didn’t really have an independent will and existed just to perform a role probably not

[dawn sluice]

so she almost never saw the heights of a higher being's actions, only the downsides

[sinful nimbus]

Hallownest didn't quickly fall afterwards?

She was alive back when Hallownest was around so this just makes her seem irrational

[foggy fractal]

do we have any other instance of steel people architecture

[dawn sluice]

yeah she probably is

idk maybe she got fed weaver propaganda no idea

[sinful nimbus]

Also the aforementioned downsides in Hallownest weren't the result of any pale being

[dawn sluice]

not directly

[spark valve]

I mean they were just not deliberately

[dawn sluice]

just the pale king being a little careless and also being too COOL

[sinful nimbus]

So "devotion or destruction" is nonsense

[spark valve]

the devotion or destruction line is easy to misinterpret but if you read it in the angle that makes sense it's fine

[sinful nimbus]

No one devoted to PK was spared from destruction either

Also PK didn't "allow" anything it was the actions of a third party

[spark valve]

Yeah but the point she’s making is about downstream effects

GMS didn’t do anything to verdania either

[dawn sluice]

he didnt directly allow anything
he just didnt really pay attention to the other gods while he was busy being very COOL

[sinful nimbus]

But she doesn't really phrase it in a coherent way and its also not a very interesting commentary regardless

[sinful nimbus]

Yes that's part of the issue

[spark valve]

It could be interesting if act 3 wasn’t uh act 3

[silk dirge]

if team cherry hired someone from this channel to remake act 3 who should they hire

theoretical scenario for fun

im going with andy

100%

[sinful nimbus]

Me to slap them on the face

[spark valve]

First sinner should’ve been the true final boss

[foggy fractal]

if its a matter of who they would actually hire then probably someone they already know
i.e. if benji or simo ever pops up here

[sinful nimbus]

First Sinner is cool but its not as cool as a romance plot

[silk dirge]

that is an interesting idea

[sinful nimbus]

Sorry not sorry

[silk dirge]

whos saying you cant do first sinner and hornet yuri

[muted lantern]

what romance plot

[foggy fractal]

if its a best candidate we could choose ? then idk

[silk dirge]

actually probably the fact shes dead

[sinful nimbus]

There isn't one...

[spark valve]

That is her aunt

[foggy fractal]

we should just stick to father of the flame x crawfather

[silk dirge]

true

[sinful nimbus]

Mask Maker x Mask Maker x Eva

[frosty gate]

What a moment to get into chat

[muted lantern]

uhm are you forgetting kratt x drowning in muckmaggots?

[dawn sluice]

hk: the "final boss" is this guy who was used as a defense against the thing who caused everything, the true final boss is the thing who caused everything
ss: the "final boss" is the thing who caused everything, the true final boss is their creation but more evil

[honest sun]

What would happen if we use the dream nail on gms, could we even do that

[silk dirge]

vog x grubfather

[sinful nimbus]

You'd read her mind

[dawn sluice]

vogfather

[dawn sluice]

imagine using dreamnail on lost lace just instantly kills them

[limpid summit]

Rad’s gimmick is speaking all caps GMS uses the royal we

[silk dirge]

do we think gms has mind detection shit like wl

[limpid summit]

Her dnd would probably do the same

Maybe

Rad also probably has mind detection

[spark valve]

GMS is too weak and pathetic to earn the all caps dnd

[silk dirge]

real

[limpid summit]

There’s just no point in her saying get out of my head when she can yell at you

[silk dirge]

fraud watch

[muted lantern]

Hornet x commiting hatecrimes

[sinful nimbus]

Nyleth dnd is all lowercase
What does this represent

[foggy fractal]

that she isn't a higher being trust

[honest sun]

Whats dnd

[silk dirge]

how about nyleth doesnt have dnd bc shes a fucking flower

[muted lantern]

dungeons and dragons

[sinful nimbus]

Dreamnail dialogue but I guess it would be needolin dialogue

NDD doesn't have the same sauce

[frosty gate]

Wtf is dnd

[sinful nimbus]

Needolin in general doesn't have sauce

[foggy fractal]

dream nail dialogue

[silk dirge]

neurodivergent dialog(this channel)

[frosty gate]

Jesus

[foggy fractal]

where ?

[spark valve]

Needolin has sauce with npcs and non-haunted bosses who stop fighting to drop bars

[sinful nimbus]

NPCs don't have anything interesting to say

[silk dirge]

crawfather mentioned

[dawn sluice]

and dream nailing corpses isnt as common with the needolin

[sinful nimbus]

Fake rappers

[muted lantern]

kinda fucked up that hornet makes people sing out their innermost thoughts in public

[spark valve]

Maybe not but the concept is fun

[honest sun]

Couldnt hornet just hit everyone with the dream needle if she could get one

I dont remember how we get dream nail

[silk dirge]

yeah but theres only one in existence

[sinful nimbus]

That's true

[silk dirge]

currently in the possession of the fucking void

[honest sun]

Awwwww man

[limpid summit]

I started that

[frosty gate]

And we got it from a currently dead lady

[limpid summit]

I just want to say

[silk dirge]

what happens to all of tk equipment when it turns into shade lord or vgfocus

[frosty gate]

Consumed

[silk dirge]

does void just eat the nail

[honest sun]

Gets fking destroyed

[silk dirge]

yum yum metal

[muted lantern]

what happens to poor grimmchild?

[dawn sluice]

shadelord just dashes sometimes

[frosty gate]

There's a lone Nail just drifting in the void

[dawn sluice]

welp time for another higher being to die due to the void, after
pale king (maybe)
radiance
gms

[honest sun]

So what happens to hornet equipment when she turns into weaver queen

[foggy fractal]

🤷‍♂️ we don't know
god knows people will use this to say that the knight is trapped in godhome forever in flower ending though

[muted lantern]

she sells it on ebay

[honest sun]

WeaveBay

[dawn sluice]

yknow is weaver queen really that bad of an ending

[spark valve]

yes

[frosty gate]

Imagine spending time and effort doing the whole ritual and your goddamn vessel gets eaten by fear incarnate

[honest sun]

Is just like the ending when tk gets chained

[sinful nimbus]

Weaver queen is bad there's a reason Hornet tries to avoid it

[muted lantern]

its left intentionally vague but due to some eva dialogue its likely that her personality is drastically changed by consuming gms, as well as becoming a god only reinforcing her desire to rule that she was resisting prior

[dawn sluice]

except instead of being controlled by a higher being, you get to be one!

[silk dirge]

i saw someone trying to argue the other day twisted child left most npcs alive so it was good

and im like uhhhhhhhh

[foggy fractal]

😭

[silk dirge]

whatever that thing is i dont think its good

[foggy fractal]

who knows how much the root extended out after

[muted lantern]

listen the giant tree monster is really helpful against carbon emissions

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet wouldn't be a good ruler even without binding GMS because she's a raging racist

[foggy fractal]

could've destroyed all of pharloom for all we know

[muted lantern]

and an ableist

[sinful nimbus]

I don't remember any ableism but

[frosty gate]

I wonder what the Murder of a Higher Being entails in the long run

[muted lantern]

she calls a disabled woman a creature then kills her

[silk dirge]

who

[foggy fractal]

and she has dementia (void can't be controlled, wing's moulds king's moulds, y'know the gist)

[sinful nimbus]

TRUE

[muted lantern]

widow

[silk dirge]

😭

its fine widow attacked first

it was self defense

[dawn sluice]

it left most npcs alive!
...
so the twisted bud could kill them

[sinful nimbus]

Why did Crull and Benjin have to die

[silk dirge]

tc hates moorbugs

[sinful nimbus]

TC when they have to crush half their NPCs because they're bored

[muted lantern]

like the line is clearly intended to show hornets confusion as to what widow is as she expresses later, but it really reads as her just being an ass

[muted lantern]

tc are home of phobic

[sinful nimbus]

I never considered they were lovers

And they said SS is lacking in queer rep

[muted lantern]

no they are just roomates that are both gay, you shouldn't make such assumptions

very fucked up

[dawn sluice]

i mean if i saw someone controlling an entire town and stringing them up while they're groaning for it to stop, and then when i ask them to stop they choose to throw stuff at me like a petulant child, i too would stab their skull and start rapidly binding

[foggy fractal]

sorry that was me i messed with the structral integrety of the room they were in

[muted lantern]

very fucked up

how could you

[fathom hill]

nah shes right abt this one

[silk dirge]

dementia hornet

[graceful grail]

Cool thing from the HK line, u gotta see the explosion here!!!

[muted lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/hollow-knight-hornet-schizophrenia-gif-19733445

[fathom hill]

void shouldn't be controlled by anyone

says her when it didnt work for her

[sinful nimbus]

"Oh man I can't wait to grab the tacks tool and get 100%"
The mischievous andy:

[fathom hill]

[muted lantern]

wait can you not get the tacks after they die?

[sinful nimbus]

You can in theory

I didn't get them though

[silk dirge]

its a bug that apparently star had

[fathom hill]

would grindle sell them?

[muted lantern]

wasn't there also a bug where if you got cursed after act 3 you couldnt remove it because the needles didn't spawn

[fathom hill]

normally these "missable" tools always end up with grindle

[sinful nimbus]

He does not

[silk dirge]

yeah

this is a report this on the bug report form instead of complaining here situation tho

but this channel isnt fun without complaining about stuff

so its fine by me

[sinful nimbus]

If the bug got patched I would have to stop insulting SS and that would defeat my agenda

[silk dirge]

you would be a great politician

star 2028

[sinful nimbus]

Better than Hornet

[foggy fractal]

that pale king was a fool for thinking he could bend the void to his will ? which he did with the moulds ?

[fathom hill]

i mean

[muted lantern]

i mean we do have one escaped kingsmould so they werent fuly bent to his will

[fathom hill]

the moulds werent the only thing he tried to do with void

[graceful grail]

The collector diddnt work out for pk

[sinful nimbus]

well that was tampered with by a third party

There's not really any mental gymastics to make Hornet not wrong when saying PK was stupid for trying to get the void to do his bidding when... he successfully did that

[fathom hill]

its more of a, try to domesticate a tiger

you could, but is it not foolish?

[sinful nimbus]

The moulds did his bidding

[graceful grail]

Also note, The only wings and kingsmoulds that we see perfect are in the dreamrealm

[foggy fractal]

it would be wrong to say that pale king didn't bend void to his will given the moulds
if the line was worded differently then maybe it could be fine

[sinful nimbus]

Well no his goal was noble

[muted lantern]

the kingsmoulds called me a slur was that by design?

[sinful nimbus]

Are we going to pretend they didn't work in the physical world or something

[muted lantern]

i mean they had to work if hornet remembers them

[fathom hill]

Im sure Hornet having seen how much destruction the void could bring overall also could say that "yeah that was porbably dumb". The void could have retaliated any moment is what im getting to it

[graceful grail]

No, we dont know if they did work less overtime though, based on what hornet has to say about them

[fathom hill]

though we do not know much about the voids overall nature so who knows

[fathom hill]

How would you phrase it?

[dawn sluice]

anyways imagine if instead of "dream no more" knight coming to the rescue, the SHADE LORD just appears out of nowhere

[sinful nimbus]

Imprinted void beings miraculously lashing out at random isn't a thing that happens

[graceful grail]

Are wingsmoulds made of Pale Ore??

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet's literally just stupid \🥀

[muted lantern]

there is the theory that the void in the empty kingsmoulds in white palace are what killed the king but idk if it holds much water.

[fathom hill]

Like the whole bending great power to ones will also ties with the common idea of

playing with power you dont really understand

[sinful nimbus]

It seems more plausible they deactivated after his death, PK clearly could work with void and not be harmed with it presumably due to his nature as a bright light

[fathom hill]

independent on the reason or if there was void lashing out or not, its still that

And that is foolish in 99% of cases

[sinful nimbus]

She doesn't say he was foolish for messing with stuff he doesn't understand, she says he was foolish for believing he could do something that.... he could, in fact, do.

[foggy fractal]

just not have the lines entirely lmao

[dawn sluice]

(the 1% of bending great power you dont understand to your will going well is the knight's case)

[fathom hill]

I mean its a small of enough line to actually have that conclusion

It is foolish to play with void its what im getting at

[sinful nimbus]

That's not what she says?

[foggy fractal]

change it to completely differet line in the bottom is what I would do if it was up to me

[fathom hill]

The pale king may have achieved some of it, doesnt make it any less foolish

[sinful nimbus]

The usage of the word "believes" means she's implying that he was wrong for believing that

But his beliefs were correct

[foggy fractal]

yeah its not like we've seen wing's moulds or king's moulds backfire at all like in any way ?

[sinful nimbus]

Not the only example of her hating on using void for no reason by the way, she also calls the Snail Shamans stupid for using it despite the fact that the plan was messed up by Lace not the fact that they used void

[fathom hill]

Again, it may be more of Hornet seeing how irresponsibly the great power is used

[vivid kernel]

I dont think shes saying it was foolish in the kingsmold sense i think she was talking more of he general plan

[sinful nimbus]

It wasn't irresponsible

[muted lantern]

unless we interpert the leaking kingsmoulds outside of pks room to be what killed him, but again thats just a theory, A- Gets shot in the head

[vivid kernel]

Speaking of which was was bad about what lace did i never got what would have been different

[sinful nimbus]

PK and the shamans both had noble intentions and only failed due to factors they couldn't have foreseen (Ironically in PK's case)

[fathom hill]

You are baiting, but I think its understandable for Hornet to be pissed off at the snails

they literally told her nothing about using the void

[sinful nimbus]

Lace jumping in the Abyss makes GMS try to save her no matter the cost

[foggy fractal]

baiting how ? the Lace part ?

[sinful nimbus]

This means she doesn't just die leaving the void wide open to corrupt her haunting and mess the kingdom up

[vivid kernel]

But shes taking gms with her

[dawn sluice]

yknow how BAD does pharloom have to be for 3 infections to be happening at the same time

[vivid kernel]

So whay does gms saving her mean in this case

[vivid kernel]

3?

[fathom hill]

Hornet would have literally died if not for lace lmao

why do people ignore this

[dawn sluice]

void, silk, plasmium

[sinful nimbus]

OK but what she says is nonsensical

[sterile jacinth]

Alt act 3 where you play as lace trying to save Hornet in the void

[fathom hill]

I dont see how is it nonsensical, if anything it could be like

she just exagerating her fathers mistakes

[sinful nimbus]

She says something that is incongruent with reality

Therefore she's being irrational and it paints her as being incredibly stupid

[dawn sluice]

as bad as the pale king was he HATED having those kinds of infections around, banning all sources of lifeblood and keeping the void sealed off, murdering thousands of his own children so they didnt have a chance to spread into the world

[fathom hill]

surely

[sinful nimbus]

I mean not intentionally

We're supposed to be like "Yeah you go Hornet! Ily so much" but she's like actually a moron in this game its bizarre

[fathom hill]

@foggy fractal this is why i say its bait

[foggy fractal]

if GMS was trapped by herself in the void, she would've just given up and die
it was only for Lace's sake that she survived that long, and surviving that long would mean all of Pharloom would crumble
Hornet's attitude with void doesn't follow, its not like the plan wouldn't have worked if everything went according to plan, Lace saving Hornet is not relevant to Hornet's attitude towards void no ?

[sinful nimbus]

How is that bait

[silk dirge]

plasmium update dialog rewrite

[muted lantern]

i think its more of hornet has strong feelings about the use of the void considering her job for several hundred years was executing her dads void kids, so it makes sense for her character to be extremely opposed to using it.

[silk dirge]

trust

[sterile jacinth]

I think he tried the best he could with the information he knew. He’s made mistakes and Hornet still resents him for that

[dawn sluice]

yeah
if he wasnt busy being so COOL maybe he couldve tried diplomacy with the radiance

[sinful nimbus]

What

[silk dirge]

team cherry likes ruining their communitys fun like they did by releasing silksong plasmium update will fix all

[sterile jacinth]

I don’t even know that he knew that she existed until she started infecting his citizen’s minds

[sinful nimbus]

"Why didn't he try talking it out with the god dead set on torturing and murdering everyone"

[fathom hill]

As I said, she sees these people as irresponsible, they ARE using an ancient power that they dont fully understand

[dawn sluice]

yeah, because he was too busy being COOL and didnt know the radiance existed before the infection happened

[fathom hill]

You could bend the will of ancient power to your bidding, but it is still foolish

[sinful nimbus]

But she doesn't say PK is irresponsible for meddling with forces beyond his control

[muted lantern]

im pretty sure that was a joke

[silk dirge]

i kinda need to write out the entire plasmium update mystery icon theory

[sinful nimbus]

He says he's stupid for BELIEVING he could get it to do his bidding.... But he was correct in his belief. Are we supposed to pretend we shouldn't believe that?

[silk dirge]

which i am actually only half joking about lol

call me stupid but i do genuinely believe there is something more to that icon

as big as i joke about no

[fathom hill]

yall and me rn

[sinful nimbus]

"Only a fool believes he can light a forest on fire"

[foggy fractal]

sure but that's not what Hornet is saying
she's saying that Pale King was foolish for trying to bend void to his will
not that he was foolish for using something he doesn't fully understand

[silk dirge]

but theres definitely some shit to it

[nimble ocean]

That’s what I’m saying

I don’t want to send this but..

[fathom hill]

https://tenor.com/view/wrizz-monkey-monkey-sigma-gif-14012962261800188400

[silk dirge]

mods nuke their meme images and gifs

[foggy fractal]

nothing that's stopping TC using it as a quest icon in a dlc

it could happen

[silk dirge]

see you get it

[fathom hill]

snitches get stitches

[nimble ocean]

Someone’s jealous

[sterile jacinth]

Gifs aren’t allowed in this channel they’re gonna shoot your ass

[fathom hill]

they shoot for anythign these days

[nimble ocean]

@fathom hill

[fathom hill]

anyways

[nimble ocean]

Pish tosh keep arguing im bored

[fathom hill]

I dont understand how this one cant be interpreted as such

[honest sun]

Does Gms hate/dislike pk? he had hornet with herrah which is a weaver so

[fathom hill]

Im drawing this interpretation giving her interactions and thoughts with both the hunter journal entry and the snails

[muted lantern]

i don't think she gives a damn about him

[sinful nimbus]

Errmm? Moderators? I do believe these hooligans are disrupting our serious conversation with their incessant—and frankly, juvenile—"reaction images" and "memes". If you would be so kind as to exercise your administrative power to mute (or even ban) these individuals, it would be greatly appreciated by myself and other intellectuals. Have a blessed day

[sterile jacinth]

I don’t know if she knows he exists and if she did he’s very far so I don’t think she cares

[honest sun]

Surely

[fathom hill]

If we see the hunter journal in a vaccuum, sure she is wrong but the phrasing could also be understandable in her perspective

[sterile jacinth]

If they were in the same area I don’t think she’d be very fond of him

[fathom hill]

And again, she could also be exagerating the pale kings mistakes in that regard

[silk dirge]

penance by swallowing

[sinful nimbus]

This is just mental gymnastics I'm sorry to say it

[fathom hill]

But if I had to justify what she is saying, id say its cuz it draws the same message of all time that meddling with power you dont understand is foolish

[sterile jacinth]

I can see where her distaste for her father comes from and it might be a little bit exaggerated, but I can see where she’s coming from

[fathom hill]

And only fools do foolish things

[sinful nimbus]

It doesn't effectively communicate that message

[sterile jacinth]

She firsthand sees the consequences of what her father has done

[sinful nimbus]

Also the message of the first game wasn't that the Pale King was a bumbling moron it was that he was up against an impossible task

[foggy fractal]

yeah I was gonna say it doesn't make that statement any less wrong

[sinful nimbus]

She's not even talking about the vessels btw

[dawn sluice]

yeah
too bad the “occam’s razor” option wasn’t available to the pale king

[sterile jacinth]

What would the option be? He was working with whatever he could

[fathom hill]

Ah yeah when it comes to the knight she may not say that

[silk dirge]

tbh why are wingmoulds even a journal entry

[sterile jacinth]

Lore. Also why not

[sinful nimbus]

Why are Wingmoulds even in the game

[honest sun]

could a vessel be haunted?

[sinful nimbus]

Get this callbackslop out of my unskippable 6 minute cutscene slop

[fathom hill]

but for them the void was a means to end generational trauma and get rest, for the pale king it was just selfish desire

[silk dirge]

nuu looking at hornets journal being like "who tf are these guys"

[muted lantern]

i mean i think we can just read it as hornet having a distaste (albeit somewhat irrational) to the use of the void at all because it led to a century spent murking her own siblings, which her task of sentinel she seems to resent. (this is on the matter of the snail shaman lines, for the wingmold it just seems to be poorly worded)

[sterile jacinth]

Since they can be infected, I would assume yes, but it would take a lot more

[fathom hill]

Like the pale king did really see god juice and said, im going to make servants out of it

[dawn sluice]

the “occam’s razor” option in this case is “if something is a problem, beat it until it stops being one”

[silk dirge]

ill take the abyss croissants those add a lot of points to silksong enjoyment

[foggy fractal]

callback

[muted lantern]

they unionized and are required to get one minute of screentime

[sinful nimbus]

TC really be expecting me to do the soyjack point emote whenever I see a thing from the first game 🙏

[silk dirge]

but idc about wingmoulds

[sterile jacinth]

What would that problem be

[foggy fractal]

you be the soyjack on the left I'll be the one on the right

[fathom hill]

Like at some point you have to admit that the pale king didnt even use the void for reasons that arent selfish

[silk dirge]

silksong is not the same without them

[dawn sluice]

the radiance
the knight could use the “occam’s razor” option and then did so

[fathom hill]

i can see why hornet would be opposed to that, though we dont really have that thought said in the game

[sinful nimbus]

Idk why that's relevant to the conversation

[muted lantern]

that arent selfish? i mean assumedly he used the void to save his kingdom

[sinful nimbus]

She also doesn't call him selfish. Again, she says he is stupid for believing a TRUE thing

[sterile jacinth]

That’s fair. He might not even have known that it was an option though

[muted lantern]

I think she just might not like her dad very much

[sinful nimbus]

Obviously

[sterile jacinth]

He could use it for both selfish and selfless reasons. That doesn’t make using it more dangerous or foolish

[sinful nimbus]

Which is weird because she's chill with WL in Red Memory

[dawn sluice]

yeah that’s why i said the pale king couldn’t use it

[silk dirge]

this could've been such a cool character arc to contrast with gms

[fathom hill]

The kingsmoulds are eternal servants for his eternal (bs) kingdom

[silk dirge]

to have her slowly come to terms with pk and stop hating him

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet's disdain for like... apparently everything about the first game makes her look extremely irrational

[fathom hill]

and well we do know what came of the vessels

[sterile jacinth]

I think it’s partially there to contrast with gms. Lace grows to resent her mother as well.

[muted lantern]

shes a misandrist clearly

[fathom hill]

His kingdom is done by a response for his nature of worship, which we can interpret whichever way

[silk dirge]

i mean it parallels more than contrasts

[sterile jacinth]

I would’ve liked to see her come to terms with that

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah that’s true

I wonder why he didn’t appear in red memory

[foggy fractal]

rune cage made her too weak and she hit the ground too hard on her head theory
the dementia theory.....

[fathom hill]

I mainly say it cuz why would Hornet criticize the PK but not the vessels? If thats even a point of discussion

[silk dirge]

the old hearts could've been tied into some sort of like big sacrifice to save the kingdom like pk did

which would have more impact if they were in the real world

[honest sun]

Did the pk just died or ran away or why his body is there

[sterile jacinth]

I don’t think she was very fond of the vessels

[sinful nimbus]

Parallels are generally there to actually... say something thematically

[muted lantern]

he smoked too much void and died

[sinful nimbus]

You can't just ripoff something from the first game and call it a parallel (Groal)

[fathom hill]

She may be now, we really dont know

[dawn sluice]

groalmaster

[foggy fractal]

what if he was groal the humble instead and was chill with the shaman ?

[sinful nimbus]

My goat

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah. We don’t. I don’t think she makes any mention of them in sk. She might think that they’re as emotionless as they are presented, though

[fathom hill]

She does nudge at them with Lace

[foggy fractal]

and instead of just stealing the power he actually tried and learned a new spell

[silk dirge]

groal learns ddark

[sterile jacinth]

Oh huh interesting

[muted lantern]

groal with i-frames...

[sterile jacinth]

I think he would’ve just had a very powerful mage on his side

[fathom hill]

fuck i dont have my phone with all the screenshots

[sinful nimbus]

We could've had a shaman boss...

This is the hype moments and aura I want

[honest sun]

Would hornet be able to use tk spells

[sterile jacinth]

She doesn’t process soul in the same way so I don’t think so. The knight is also a vessel.

[edgy nebula]

her body stores silk which is made from soul instead of soul itself

[fathom hill]

"Yours was life, pale one. Do not confuse your unique creation with its absence. I have seen others make the same mistake." is the line

[dawn sluice]

soul master: wanted to achieve immortality for him and his sanctum and destroy the pale king for denying this
groal: wanted to achieve destructive power and destroy the citadel for polluting bile water

with one, their destructive methods predate their vendetta toward the rulers, with groal, their vendetta caused them to go with destructive methods

[edgy nebula]

so she can only use the silk to use spells

[sterile jacinth]

Ooooohhh you’re so right

[fathom hill]

also her whole opening up with the knight in hk but blah blah i dont remember much

[sterile jacinth]

Another reason she could resent her father is the creation of the vessel themselves. She might’ve realized that they’re not truly hollow and therefore have once and a life, and she resented her father for brutally taking that away

[edgy nebula]

cant wait for silksong: shoelace and we get a howling wraiths boss

[dawn sluice]

abyss shriek boss

[fathom hill]

Also her seemingly condemning her role as a sentinel could be it too?

But thats more my own interpretation

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah, I feel like once you realize all the “ voiceless beings” you’re killing actually do you have life I think you would get a little bit mad

[terse ravine]

Make Coral Tower Great Again
DLC 2026 Elections

[sinful nimbus]

That's not an accurate summary of Soul Master but also this isn't really an interesting parallel at all, it doesn't reveal anything interesting about their characters or provide any new commentary.

[muted lantern]

OH MY FUCKING GOD IT'S YOU

[sterile jacinth]

Maybe that’s where her soft spot for lace comes from. Her experience with the vessels

[terse ravine]

[muted lantern]

FROM ELDEN RING DISCORD

[fathom hill]

I mean theres something still, about her seemingly coming to terms with what was meant to be done in the red memories with the white lady

[dawn sluice]

but it also makes one not really a rip off

[sinful nimbus]

The aspect of stealing a spell from a Snail Shaman is ripped off

[terse ravine]

Do you recommend Plasm for better muscular gains?

[fathom hill]

Which doesn't include her father and could be talking about her three mothers and what they did to her and teached her but i dont really know

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah, it’s a rough job. Also, realizing that thousands of your siblings were killed before they even had a chance at experiencing life would be kind of rough.

[muted lantern]

I bought gas station plasmium from the lifeblood creature and never recovered

[fathom hill]

The PK absolute abscense in the red memory section does make me believe that she really didnt see him at all

[silk dirge]

yeah

[sterile jacinth]

I thought that her resentment of him is the reason that he doesn’t show up in the memory

Like she seems to have a degree of love and respect for her three mothers

[fathom hill]

I dont think so, since it does tie with the whole

[silk dirge]

i think it wouldve been cool to have a scene where he says he does care about hornet in the same way wl says she feels affection for hornet

[fathom hill]

The pale king didnt really leave his palace thing

[sinful nimbus]

Its a good thing too I think if my daughter was like Hornet I would never be able to live with myself again

[muted lantern]

could be saving that arc for dlc

[silk dirge]

🙏

[sterile jacinth]

Now I want pk to reconcile with his daughter ugh

[fathom hill]

it would be interesting characterization tbf

[muted lantern]

also are we still on this debateslop about wingmoulds

[dawn sluice]

what would you rather have
children like the weavers
daughter like hornet
lace
phantom

[sterile jacinth]

I want them to hug in a memory

[silk dirge]

its possibly a lot of the stuff we discuss here were intentional actions to setup dlc

[fathom hill]

I mean we could

Ring the bell and im willing to entertain it

[sinful nimbus]

Lace or Phantom probably

[silk dirge]

idk how but i wouldnt be surprised if tc is playing like 4d chess with silksong lore and we are in the fucking 2nd dimension

[sterile jacinth]

Debateslop…

[fathom hill]

But honestly idk how much more stuff i can say

[dawn sluice]

i mean a manic fencer and a decaying old thing can’t be that bad to take care of

[sinful nimbus]

Phantom is the only one among them who isn't like really evil

[fathom hill]

not debate technically since no referee

[dawn sluice]

(Lace)

[fathom hill]

or however you say that in english

[sterile jacinth]

I feel like if lace was given a better parent then she would be a little bit less… Crazy

[sinful nimbus]

This is why you don't rewrite messages kids

[fathom hill]

This is do believe

[silk dirge]

never misspell mount fay in the bad way

[sinful nimbus]

\🥀

[fathom hill]

though given how some things were retconned entirely, doing it as they go is also like

[sinful nimbus]

Silksong lore will be good in the DLC guys
If its not good in the DLC it will be good in the sequel

Or maybe there's just one hidden detail that'll make it all click

[fathom hill]

something they could be doing?

[silk dirge]

this is the good misspelling

[sinful nimbus]

Meet potential man