sk-lore

[cedar owl]

that's not exclusive to the pale beings though

[sterile jacinth]

I would put weavers into that category though

[bleak maple]

"We higher who see you seeking,
Our shells yearn for your embrace."

[sterile jacinth]

It’s more of an urge for pale beings

[bleak maple]

Higher beings

[hidden crater]

Always the pale beings smh

[sterile jacinth]

Did not catch that higher. I wonder if there were more higher beings at some point but they gave their minds to the abyss

[lethal burrow]

I think the ancient civilization in silk song wants total self death and escape from reality, just completely gone.

"In silence your voice,
In darkness your form,
We higher who see you seeking,
Our shells yearn for your embrace."

"Erase our fear,
Eliminate our desire,
To suffer no more,
Void, cleanse us."

"...No will... No self... Shade..."

rain World benefactor style

[sterile jacinth]

That’s what i read

[cedar owl]

another reason why I believe paleness is related to soul is because "pale" can also refer to certain objects

[edgy barn]

"we higher" could be interpreted as them hauling from above the abyss.

[sterile jacinth]

If the sole category is soul manipulation than id call weavers pale beings

[cedar owl]

and again, the fact that groal straight up calls soul "pale flame"

[sterile jacinth]

Pale being my bad

[bleak maple]

huh
bros are literally embraced the void

though that would explain why is there so much void

[cedar owl]

they very well might be pale beings

[edgy barn]

you can argue all pale beings have a connection to soul but not everything with a connection to soul would be a pale being.

[bleak maple]

if ancient bugs were worshiping void for such a long time.. that would explain that

[sterile jacinth]

I guess it depends on your definition yeah

[lethal burrow]

what's that one line from lemm? "they worship no force or lord but the very darkness itself"

[sterile jacinth]

Yah i can see that. I would also put snail shamans into the pale beings if that were the only requirement and i dont think they’re pale beings

[lethal burrow]

That's not the line I don't remember what it is

[bleak maple]

yeah something like this

[hidden crater]

We should have never given the void focus

[sterile jacinth]

Hey it saved hornet

[cedar owl]

the weavers fit the pale being category under your definition as well. the caretaker says the weavers have a desire to string everyone in their web
the caretaker says this
"So what're you hopin' for, eh? Planning to usurp, to perch above us all as queen? Build up our hopes only to string us all in your own beastly web? Such is the way of Weavers and gods both... "

[bleak maple]

and like again
Radiance call void - ancient enemy -
And from all Higher beings from Hallownest only Radiance and Nightmare Heart are in the Dream Realm

[lethal burrow]

Giving the void Adderall was a mistake

[sterile jacinth]

Interesting. What about snail shamans then? They seem to have an affinity for soul

[bleak maple]

And Nightmare Heart were once part of the Radiance realm before the split

so that's interesting detail

[cedar owl]

well, they steal soul from others

also, they're black

[lethal burrow]

might've been part of the radiance itself who knows it might've been a kindred situation for all we are to aware

we don't really know anything

[bleak maple]

I mean they are all half pale for sure. Cuz their creator is Pale being - gms

[sterile jacinth]

Doesn’t mean they dont have a natural ability to manipulate it. They might not produce it though (at least they can’t make more)

[bleak maple]

yeah like that's so cool
Imagine how Shade Lord rips her heart

[cedar owl]

iirc lace is called pale too, right?

[lethal burrow]

Creator is a bit of a weird term

[bleak maple]

I think yes?

[bleak maple]

well
Mother

[lethal burrow]

Yes.

[sterile jacinth]

That would make phantom pale as well

[bleak maple]

Also I just wanna say how cool and good Silksong explains almost every question from the original HK

[sterile jacinth]

Neither of them use silk though. Or soul

[lethal burrow]

Maybe a pale being is literally just a being that is pale. Has anybody thought about that?

[sterile jacinth]

It does create a ton of questions lol

[bleak maple]

in some way, yeah. But you need to remember that it's like generations and generations after

[sterile jacinth]

That would apply to a lot of random bugs

[lethal burrow]

Like what

[sterile jacinth]

Would them being old disqualify them?

[bleak maple]

not without that!
Though rn I dont really have much in my head
can anyone like list the questions Silksong gives

[cedar owl]

well, they're made of silk. at that point it's irrelevant whether they use soul or not because they're literally made of soul
I think paleness has a connection to soul

[bleak maple]

not old
It's more like no one of them uses Silk. It's just a rudiment of their ansestors of some sorts

[sterile jacinth]

Pale stag
Pharlids
The creature that fives you the faydown cloak

[sterile jacinth]

That’s fair

[cedar owl]

I must bring this up again, groal literally calls soul "pale flame"

[lethal burrow]

uh ok here's a few off the top of my head

Who bound the first sinner?
why was grandmother silk retrieving the Weavers?
When did the Weavers leave pharloom?
why did the citadel fall silent?
why did gms only wake up when hornet yells at her?

[lethal burrow]

ye those could be pale, sure why not

[sterile jacinth]

Could you rephrase this?

[lethal burrow]

Where is such a thing said?

[cedar owl]

needolin dialogue

[lethal burrow]

interesting

[sterile jacinth]

That would make a very loose definition for a “pale being” which is in game held to a pretty high regard so i kind of doubt this

[bleak maple]

i'll try with my sleepy head
So like. Over generations, the strength of the silk weakened within the bugs as it was used less and less

something like this

[sterile jacinth]

Bugs? Are you referring to phantom? They are turning gray due to age but i bet its neglect as well

[bleak maple]

no no no im like
about bugs of pharloom as a whole. Like they have silk inside them, but that not really make them all Pale Beings (I think I just lost the track of this conversation sorry lol)

[bleak maple]

yeah okay good ones

Im stupid nevermind

[sterile jacinth]

Oh yeah. I kinda agree. Silk is soul just in a different form and hornet getting silk from hitting them is her getting soul

[bleak maple]

I somehow read "Phantom" as "Pharloom"

[sterile jacinth]

Oh lol

[bleak maple]

Yeah Phantom is like a Pale Being spun of Silk

[lethal burrow]

Or she was at least once

[bleak maple]

Always bet on Phantom Prime in Godseekers Pharloom dlc

[lethal burrow]

vespa would be better though

[sterile jacinth]

Someone suggested you fight both silkborn at the same time for a rematch fight and i would LOVE that

[bleak maple]

both.

[bleak maple]

that would be seek
I saw this cool fanart with Lace, Phantom and Wraiths all together

[sterile jacinth]

Nightmare fight but sounds super fun

[bleak maple]

here (im so sorry IDK the autor if someone knows please credit them their work is so good)

[lethal burrow]

Just reverse image search

[sterile jacinth]

Someone fixed phantoms dress aww

[bleak maple]

oh gosh right one sec

[sterile jacinth]

Ough i bet loosing phantom was not easy on lace

Knowing that if you mess up you’ll be discarded and abandoned just like your sister

[bleak maple]

Phantom my beloved..

[lethal burrow]

I have thoughts on Phantom and what actually happened with that

[bleak maple]

yeah
I think she kinda felt like Hornet in Lost Lace hunter journal

[sterile jacinth]

I love their fight and theme

[lethal burrow]

Phantom does have the best song in the game

[bleak maple]

I love everything about them
also Parry

[sterile jacinth]

Theres not a journal entry for lost lace?

[bleak maple]

also Mist is such a cool location

[bleak maple]

there is

[lethal burrow]

there is

[bleak maple]

and it's like
makes me cry every time

[sterile jacinth]

What? Did i miss something? Does it appear after you beat lost lace?

[lethal burrow]

yup

[sterile jacinth]

Cause i completed the hunters journal before beating the game

Oh rats i gotta check that out

[bleak maple]

"Mournful creature tasked alone to expel the Citadel's choking refuse. Their talent with a longpin is unmatched."

[lethal burrow]

on the subject of phantom and their abandonment: the journal says that Phantom was tasked with the exhaust organ, but this poses the question.... by who? Certainly not grandmother silk who is presumed to be asleep, and even if conscious would surely not like the citadel or care for its structure enough to assign a daughter to the exhaust. no it seems it could only be the Weavers or the conductors, and from there, the reason for phantoms abandonment seems only clear, in one way or another, knowingly or not, she sided with the citadel as opposed to her mother, sided with the very people keeping grandmother silk caged, and for that reason, I can very much see grandmother silk 'abandoning' phantom (in whatever capacity she's able given her circumstances anyways.)

[lethal burrow]

but as above... perhaps not as at first seems

[bleak maple]

I wonder whats "Citadel's choking refuse." means

[lethal burrow]

refuse can mean like... leftovers, waste?

What you would expect for a place that's in bile water

[bleak maple]

yeah fair

[edgy barn]

noxious gases produced by the citadel's operations

[sterile jacinth]

Interesting. I still think that gms can communicate with her children in her sleeping state and phantom was sort of her first experiment to make a completely loyal child after the weavers betrayed her and phantom just wasn’t good enough. Maybe then they sided with the citadel… i can see that happening

[sterile jacinth]

It’s what happened to the entire right side of pharloom

(Minus far fields cause karmelita)

Poison swamp 😔

[bleak maple]

I do wonder if the Organ is the part of Silksong

[edgy barn]

"Exhaust Organ" is a double meaning. It is an organ (as in, the instrument) that expulses exhaust gases, and it is also the citadel's exhaust organ (as in, a biological organ)

[sterile jacinth]

Seeing as it’s in the game… yes

[bleak maple]

Second time this location is not that bad
even the boss fight

[bleak maple]

huh
yeah that's good actually
same with ventrica

[sterile jacinth]

Lore wise it killed or warped almost every bug that lives there

[bleak maple]

Phantom my beloved

[sterile jacinth]

Phantom sits at the boarder between the pure and holy citadel and the outsiders that wish to destroy it

(And the pollution that the citadel causes)

[bleak maple]

oh no I mean like
Silksong is the song with witch the GMS is put asleep right? And like.. does Organ Phantom plays also part of this song..

[sterile jacinth]

Oooh that is an interesting theory. Could be. Or maybe that was once its purpose but phantom commandeered it. Im not sure if they’re still loyal to their mother

Im sure its just as complicated as laces loyalty to gms

[bleak maple]

for sure

For me Phantom looks like the one who just.. waits someone worthy. Someone good for a real battle. Someone who could kill them once and for all

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah for sure. Probably just as nilistic and self hating as lace is. Maybe more so because they were so easily discarded

Grr i really like these characters

I imagine they wear the mask to cover the fact that they’re unraveling. Like they wear it out of shame

[bleak maple]

Or maybe Phantom is just.. you know, That old

[lethal burrow]

if grandmother silk could communicate with her children in her state I think the miscommunication with lace thinking hornet is there to replace her would be entirely avoided

[bleak maple]

For sure!! Also ghost of an opera

[sterile jacinth]

What do you mean? You can be self hating and old at the same time lol

[sterile jacinth]

I dont really believe that theory in the first place haha

[bleak maple]

No like the state we see Phantom. How unraveling they are

And dirty

[lethal burrow]

I have no other interpretation that comes to mind for "it's you that she wants, is it not?"

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah i think the mask is to cover that

[sterile jacinth]

I interpreted that as lace setting hornet free as a rebellion

[lethal burrow]

Elaborate, I don't see the logical through line

[sterile jacinth]

When does she say this again? Is it the first fight in deep docks?

[bleak maple]

I always read that as: you're the real daughter. Not just from silk. She doesn't need me when there's you - a "real" daughter

[lethal burrow]

it's what she says right before she collapses in the white roses

[sterile jacinth]

Ooh. Interesting. She might want hornets power. Could be why she was captured in the first place

I could see some kind of twisted jealousy that her mother is paying more attention to this spider than her, her own daughter

[bleak maple]

For sure 100%

Alao again all this talk about - im not real. Im just silk - and etc

[sterile jacinth]

I can see gms seeming to pay more attention to what hornet is doing than lace and lace wants her mothers love and attention

[sterile jacinth]

Lace is so messed up lol. Poor girl got a very narcissistic and controlling parent

[lethal burrow]

I don't see any other interpretation than lace misinterpreting hornet as a replacement but I'm open to have it illustrated to me

"Face the holy mother who would fashion so cruel and crude a daughter as me.
After all... it's you that she wants... is it not?"

[bleak maple]

I feel so bad for her :(
I hope she and Hornet gonna be happy together

[lethal burrow]

"controlling parent"
"literally stuck in a ball, unable to do anything"

like idk what control?

[sterile jacinth]

I can see that as gms anticipating hornet fighting and maybe freeing her (she does kind of free her to fight her) and maybe binding hornets power to her own or just finally killing her like the rest of those foul weavers who betrayed her

[sterile jacinth]

That’s why i think she can communicate. Emotional abuse would definitely explain why lace acts the way she does

[lethal burrow]

see what? this is lace dialogue.

[sterile jacinth]

Me too ugh

[sterile jacinth]

Oh lace is jealous she’s paying attention to hornet and not her sorry should have specified

[bleak maple]

Also.. how much more new lore we get about Still Soul and "Masters"?
I didnt play Steel Soul in Ss yet but im free to spoilers if anyone's can explain to me

[lethal burrow]

yeah but if gms could communicate freely, I feel that this whole thing could've been over haha

[bleak maple]

All I know is City of Steel
And there were some other locations mentioned in Craidle..

[sterile jacinth]

Shes not a great mother. Could have been like a nail in a coffin type of deal. Also narcissists are terrible at communication

[lethal burrow]

I just feel like this is making a lot of assumptions I don't get.

[sonic dawn]

are these bug corpses? if they are, why are they piled up in such a way

[sterile jacinth]

What I’ve read is that gms is very narcissistic and controlling mostly for how lace acts. It’s very much like how a child with a narcissistic parent acts

Gms doesnt treat her like her own person so lace doesnt see herself that way either

Also the weaver rebellion

[lethal burrow]

I don't understand how she's controlling in relation to lace tho

[bleak maple]

Also can anyone please explain this to me? Im not native English speaken
What does "Weaver, in eight part" mean? Like generations?

[lethal burrow]

you know how like somebody can say they're half Italian or something?

this is like saying the descendant is eighth part Weaver

[sonic dawn]

1/8 weaver, not fully weaver

[bleak maple]

OHH. Okay got it. Thank u so much!!

[bleak maple]

Omg Kikuri pfp my beloved

[trim prairie]

possibility of godhome in silksong?

[sterile jacinth]

Lace is like an eternal child. Grand mother silk wont really let her grow into her own being. Lace seems to have a really complicated relationship with her. It makes sense why she’s so self hating if all she’s ever been praised for is acting like how gms wants her to, it doesnt really allow for self expression. Also messing up would result in abandonment like what happened with phantom. She also sort of parallels hornet in that way, who was forced to grow up really fast while lace is forced to stay in this eternal childhood (i am not arguing weather or not she’s physically a child i dont want to get into that)

[lethal burrow]

Unlikely but not impossible

[bleak maple]

That would be sick
50/50. Mostly depends on how many dlc will there be. I think they just cooking one big dlc

[sterile jacinth]

Shes got identity issues which came from her mother tldr

[bleak maple]

Like you know how Fromsoft makes a game and then a one big dlc for it

[trim prairie]

but why unlikely? godseekers could still be out there, and the land of storms is completely unexplained

[lethal burrow]

So it seems to be a lot of assumptions, then basically fair enough

[sterile jacinth]

Variant on it i think. Maybe more like memory

[trim prairie]

my prediction is we need more hearts to get the dream nail and then we explore a bit of outer pharloom to find a godseekers

[cedar owl]

they're not out there anymore, I'm afraid

[sterile jacinth]

Mostly what i got from analyzing lace as a character and how she acts and speaks and then constructing gms personality off of that. She acts like how a child with a narcissistic parent would act

[foggy fractal]

given that etv is a possible ending that leads into silksong godseekers already completed their goal

[lethal burrow]

The ending seems to be going off of embrace the void judging by the flash of the shade lord and the lack of the Hollow Knight's shade. even if there are other god seekers out there, Godhome itself would be completely desolated by the void.

[sterile jacinth]

I doubt we get a dream nail. We have elegy of the deep which is similar enough

[bleak maple]

From silksong we're like know more places now. Blackbarrens and sandsea. But both of them sounds just like land of storms - a wasteland

[trim prairie]

here’s the thing, elegy of the deep goes offof OLD memorys

[edgy barn]

Even in Dnm, with the Radiance's death the godseekers would naturally gravitate towards the being that killed her, so they probably just end up worshipping the LoS anyways.

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah there’s no intelligent bugs to inhabit them, which i believe are directly tied to the prosperity of a land

[bleak maple]

Also we know City of Steel and Lands where from Everbloom came I forgor the name

[trim prairie]

wait really? Haven’t done my steel soul run so I haven’t spoken to seer zi

[cedar owl]

the lands serene, so easily forgotten

[bleak maple]

That's from Cradle lore tablets

[sterile jacinth]

This is cryptic lol. Wdym?

[trim prairie]

whhhaaaa

[bleak maple]

Thats! Thank u

[sterile jacinth]

Oh is it from a lore tablet?

[bleak maple]

Immage being a weaver in eight part and live in sandsea and blackbarrens

[sinful nimbus]

Lands Serene is Ze'mers/the Everblooms homeland according to White Lady's dialogue

[lethal burrow]

but if they're going to go for allergy of the D, why not cut out the middle man of the seekers to begin with

[sterile jacinth]

That’s only one bug lol. You need a lot more willpower and soul (theorizing)

[trim prairie]

I’m just saying it would be cool to see the elegy of the deep silk next to a giant mask of a godseeker

[bleak maple]

The names of location's I mentioned ablove (besides lands serene)

[edgy barn]

...you know, wouldn't this be able to explain the silksong Shade Lord flash in a Dream no More timeline? The knight ends up transforming regardless because the godseekers begin worshipping it after the Radiance's death.

[sterile jacinth]

Im talking about the land serene

[trim prairie]

also I haven’t checked yet but can you go further out of blasted steps where it says something is stalking you

[sinful nimbus]

The Shade Lord flash is also a hallucination

[bleak maple]

Oh, no no no no, this one from original hk

[cedar owl]

so sad people never include the lands serene in those unhinged fake dlc maps

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah its the citadel

[sterile jacinth]

What is it referring to? Just uninhabited land?

[trim prairie]

oh my god bruh I need to explore more

[sterile jacinth]

Where are you? Act one still?

[trim prairie]

I’ve 100 prevented the game

percented

[bleak maple]

Well
All we know it's a place where Everblooms grow. And where Grey Monour were born

[sterile jacinth]

Oh ok. I just thought it meant the citadel who captured hornet before

[trim prairie]

as in beaten act 3 still missing tools

[sterile jacinth]

I see

[cedar owl]

nah. have a good night everyone
I'd say I was disappointed to see a take like this in this channel, but that would imply I'm surprised

[sterile jacinth]

Ignore them. Theyre pretty abrasive

[cedar owl]

I do bite

[bleak maple]

Im afraid no one would opened the cacoon

[sterile jacinth]

What do you mean?

[sinful nimbus]

I'm quite curious as to how that message was abrasive

[bleak maple]

Gn everyone!! It was really nice to talk about hk lore!!

[sterile jacinth]

I mean in general

[trim prairie]

can someone answer a lore question of mine?

[sinful nimbus]

Also yes it is a hallucination it only appears in a brief flash and the only consistent form is the one seen in DNM even after Hornet goes unconscious

[sterile jacinth]

I mean thats what this channel is for

We can certainly try

[lethal burrow]

it's the original homeland of one of the great knight

[sterile jacinth]

Oh cool

[trim prairie]

the deco at where you can exit pharloom, is that similar to anything else?

[sterile jacinth]

It looks Ike weaver harps to me

[lethal burrow]

we don't even know they were born there. We just know that's where they came from

[trim prairie]

the small ones sure but the big one at the baCK

[sterile jacinth]

…big weaver /j

Grand mother silk herself?

[lethal burrow]

isn't it just citadel stuff? Maybe I miss remembering

[lethal burrow]

peak

[sterile jacinth]

I think this is the wrong channel for this lol

[nimble ocean]

Ik

[lethal burrow]

lmao

[trim prairie]

it’s not really like a harp, more like.. I don’t really know, if anyone has the mod that doesn’t blur the background ide really like a screenshot

[lethal burrow]

"the mods, I have seen their power and they do not scare me."

[trim prairie]

cause I can also see a conductor maybe..?

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah they do look like conductor helmets

There is a conductor helmet that’s actually there

[trim prairie]

the one in between the big ones

[lethal burrow]

we know what happened to a certain somebody who wrote the into poam

[trim prairie]

ur game is so clear woah

[sterile jacinth]

Yea. I don’t remember the individual conductor names but that one likely ran away

[nimble ocean]

Oh yeah I got yelled at a few days ago but who rly cares

[lethal burrow]

it's not my game also its a mod also its from oregne place

[sterile jacinth]

Maybe those things are just there to announce that youre reaching pharloom. They look musical

[trim prairie]

so conductors inject themselves with silk right..?

[edgy barn]

yk, something I have realized is that all the conductor helmets we have seen have spots where the gold paint has come off exposing the grey metal beneath. I like to think that's representative of the citadel as a whole and it's current state.

[lethal burrow]

At least one of them does to prolong his life

[trim prairie]

ok before I say what I’m about to say what do the conductors really do

[foggy fractal]

Romino
Mizello
Ballador

[sterile jacinth]

I will probably forget these (besides mizello) but thank you

[lethal burrow]

conductors are like the leaders of the citadel after the Weavers left or went to their tombs

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah they were meant to continue the song

They uh… did not do a good job

[trim prairie]

do you think they fought for the citadel..?

or atleast 1

[sterile jacinth]

Who’s they

[trim prairie]

conductors

[sterile jacinth]

Theyre the leaders of the citadel lol

[edgy nebula]

yeah every conductor helmet is like that, romino's is too

[sinful nimbus]

They are only gilded after all

[edgy nebula]

it's either a purposeful design choice or wear and tear

[lethal burrow]

lmao no I doubt they take after the warrior kings of old

[sterile jacinth]

Both. It’s seeing the cracks in the citadels holiness

[edgy nebula]

i mean ingame-wise a purposeful design choice

[trim prairie]

also do we know pharlooms origins or no

[sterile jacinth]

I think it used to be a bunch of scattered tribes before gms came and ruined everything

[lethal burrow]

nope.

[edgy nebula]

once 4 people ruled until gms showed up and fucked everything up, we dont know how it came to be

[lethal burrow]

you're forgetting the stilkin

[sinful nimbus]

I'd assume its just a natural cave system

[sterile jacinth]

“Ooh look a bunch of bugs for me to control 🥰”

[edgy nebula]

shhh groal isnt a successor

[trim prairie]

I have such a far fetched theory that pharloom is the black wyrm that has 2 pieces of bad evidence but I reallyyy want it to be true 🥹

[sterile jacinth]

I doubt it was carved by a wyrm

[edgy nebula]

my theory is that the black egg is the blackwyrm

[sterile jacinth]

The arcane egg or the temple of the black egg?

[lethal burrow]

I don't think wyrms are big enough to be the entire kingdom to be honest

[edgy nebula]

black egg

[trim prairie]

all I’m saying is the citadel refers to hallownest as “ the white wyrm “

[sterile jacinth]

Interesting

[sinful nimbus]

As it is a kingdom ran by a white wyrm yeah

[sterile jacinth]

It is lead by a white wyrm

Or it was

[trim prairie]

yea idk it has bad evidence 😔

[edgy nebula]

it says kingdom of the white wyrm

[edgy barn]

Thematically speaking Groal's power was stolen rather than inherited or of his own making, so it makes sense he is not a successor.

[sinful nimbus]

He also isn't nearly as powerful in the first place

[edgy nebula]

not as powerful as crust king khann, trust

[sterile jacinth]

I still think clear/stillwater/whatever it was called used to be a thriving kingdom

[lethal burrow]

The point isn't that he's a thief. The point is that because of the situation he and his people are in his room so callous and hateful that he would even steal the power of one who wanted to be allied because of how distrustful and mean they have been forced to be

[edgy nebula]

bilewater probably just used to be part of verdania

[sterile jacinth]

I want to see fan interpretations of what the stiltkin used to look like

[sinful nimbus]

In other words he's a thief

[trim prairie]

we all know ur a karaka warrior 🥹✌️

[trim prairie]

wait what

[sterile jacinth]

I think it also used to look like pale lake. I don’t think it had any verdania clovers tho

[edgy nebula]

nah brah

[edgy nebula]

part pale lake, part verdania

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah a thriving wetland area

Wow now i really want to see prime bilewater

[lethal burrow]

I wasn't making any claim on power or that he was specifically alive for a long time just that the stilkin were one of the groups that pre-dated grandmother silk

[sinful nimbus]

And I wasn't talking to you

[sterile jacinth]

I hadn’t considered that but youre probably right

I wonder if they were more peaceful until their land got destroyed

[edgy nebula]

probably

[sterile jacinth]

Would explain why they’re not completely wiped off the face of the earth like the Karak

[edgy nebula]

yeah karak shouldnt have challenged gms

[sterile jacinth]

She probably had a “bow or die” clause and they refused to bow

So she’s kind of the invader not them

[lethal burrow]

you always act like this snarky smug abrasive way.

like you're pretending that I'm saying he's not a thief and that you're somehow the correct one here for pointing out the obvious ha ha ha ....but I'm just saying that the point of his character isn't that he is a thief, I'm not even denying that he is one.

[sinful nimbus]

What?

[trim prairie]

not trying to be disrespectful but I think they are just summing up what people say

[sterile jacinth]

It’s no use getting into arguments with them. Best to block and ignore

[sinful nimbus]

Someone said Groal isn't a successor because he stole the power rather than inheriting it, you said that this wasn't the point of his character even though that wasn't relevant to the conversation, I just reiterated that he was a thief

[lethal burrow]

Maybe an isolation but they've done similar snarky things like this a lot of times in the past

[lethal burrow]

it was relevant to the person I was replying to, so yeah, it was relevant to the conversation

[sinful nimbus]

How was that relevant

No one was making a statement on the point of his character AFAIK

[lethal burrow]

you seem to be willingly obtuse to a very high degree commonly

I don't know how much more I can simplify it for you

[sinful nimbus]

Also critiques of your ideas aren't personal insults or anything remotely 'snarky', 'smug' or 'abrasive'

[sterile jacinth]

Lore they wont listen :/
dont waste your energy

[lethal burrow]

yeah your right

[sinful nimbus]

My biggest opp

[lethal burrow]

It's like arguing with a brick wall, I swear

[sterile jacinth]

Fr

[edgy barn]

That's pretty fair, but I would like to point out that Groal in particular is framed as quite... dictatorial, I guess is the word? By his needolin dialogue, I am not saying he doesn't actually care about the plight of the other stilkin, just that his own personal desire for power is a large driving factor in his actions.

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah i agree. This agression might have only started because their entire home got destroyed by the citadel

[sonic dawn]

why was widow punished like that? the pins and the mask removed

[edgy barn]

The usual assumption is that the other weavers punished her for staying loyal to GMS.

[sterile jacinth]

Common theory is that she sided with gms and the weavers disfigured her

[sonic dawn]

damn

[sterile jacinth]

We said like the same thing lol

[lethal burrow]

yeah, but I don't think he wants power for powers sake you know?

[sonic dawn]

why would she side with gms knowing that they are not divine

[sinful nimbus]

She might not believe they aren't divine

[lethal burrow]

staying loyal to grandmother silk, there's also a theory that says it was to prevent her from waking grandmother silk up, but that's more on the speculation side

[edgy barn]

Widow does in fact believe they are divine.

[sinful nimbus]

In fact she definitely believes she's divine judging by her NDN

"Our mother... true...

Our light divine..."

[silk dirge]

i believe widow and first sinner are supposed to be polar opposites

[sterile jacinth]

I think he can be greedy and power hungry while ultimately wanting the citadel to be destroyed

[lethal burrow]

absolutely they would hate each other too

[edgy barn]

"Our mother... true...
Our light divine...
Wake... Wake... Wake...
Glory to you...
Devotion to you...
Spin... Bind... Punish...
Of the first... the last...
We hear you!"

[lethal burrow]

true

[sterile jacinth]

Ooooh i wonder if we’ll get backstory about that

[sterile jacinth]

I like groal for what he is ngl. Can show how someone can be wronged and still be an awful person

[sterile jacinth]

Picturing some really tragic friends to enemies type deal lol

[bronze turret]

Iirc one of the cradle cages belong to her. She was brought back to Pharloom and pinned (literally!) to stay under GMS' command

[silk dirge]

nah thats a 1/4 weaver

[sinful nimbus]

Groal is a commentary on how environmental conversation activists are all evil

[sterile jacinth]

She does have a line about the other weavers leaving

[lethal burrow]

apparently strings appear when he sings, but that doesn't seem to stop his actions so I guess his hate is just stronger... he was already consumed by a far stronger power.

[silk dirge]

its commentary on anti nuclear environmental groups who are basically shooting themselves in the foot

[edgy barn]

I actually have a half-finished draft of a fanfic about First Sinner and Widow being best friends in the old days under GMS's rule.

[sterile jacinth]

I think his soul usage allowed gms to control him while the other stiltkin do not

[bronze turret]

Still doesn't make sense to me why she would have the pins even after the other Weabers are gone. From what I understood, they are what prevents her from rebelling.

[sterile jacinth]

Omg

[lethal burrow]

Perhaps, but he doesn't seem very controlled as my point even though he has strings on him

[silk dirge]

i watched a lot of kyle hill like a few years ago how could you tell

[sterile jacinth]

Maybe removing them would kill her? That’s speculation tho idk

[edgy barn]

The pins are lodged in her spine. She can't just take them out.

[lethal burrow]

have you ever tried to scratch your back before? Maybe she can't reach.

[sterile jacinth]

Maybe he was low prioity. Or she used him to prevent the stiltkin from actually attacking the citadel

[lethal burrow]

maybe but it seems like he's just unaffected

[edgy barn]

Most haunted bugs continue doing and thinking as they were before getting haunted. Groal wouldn't be an exception.

[sinful nimbus]

Why doesn't she just use scuttlebrace is she stupid

[sterile jacinth]

He’s obviously still haunted. Maybe gms is causing him to be like well attack the citadel next year for sure guys trust me

[lethal burrow]

True, but he seems to have significantly more of his mind intact than others

[bronze turret]

Widow isn't completely alone in the Citadel. The other bugs who also worship GMS would have removed the pins by now

[sterile jacinth]

My best theory for that if you follow the she was a gms ally is that it would kill her if they were removed

[lethal burrow]

The people of the Citadel seem to believe the weavers are all gone, the 12th architect says they thought they were all extinct and the vault keeper says they're all meant to be dead

[edgy barn]

Again, taking the pins out would likely be damaging. They are in her spine. She could end up crippled, or dead.

Also, the citadel bugs don't worship GMS

They don't know she exists

[sterile jacinth]

True

[lethal burrow]

With the exception of the conductors

[sterile jacinth]

Widow also seems like a recluse

[bronze turret]

Ok, you guys have a point

I still don't think it was the Weavers who did that to her.

[sterile jacinth]

Who then?

[edgy barn]

...then who?

[lethal burrow]

What makes you say such a thing?

[silk dirge]

quick question do we trust the game files and say first sinner is the first ever weaver

i think its very likely

[bronze turret]

Although she has no cradle of her own, I don't think the idea that she could've been one of the weavers brought back to Pharloom is discardable.

[fresh badger]

Its not game files its lore tablets and scene contect imo. She's called First of the First (weavers being pharloom's First Children)

[sterile jacinth]

Maybe. (Speculating) she could also have been gms favorite and thats why her lies stung so bad for her

[bronze turret]

The bugs know other Weavers and descendants of Weavers exist out there, and are sent in Chambers to retrive them back

[sinful nimbus]

Weavers brought back by GMS are killed for their silk

[fresh badger]

Tbh it couldve been like whiteward under the weavers' orders or smth

[sterile jacinth]

Oh true

[edgy barn]

That's just the weavers with an extra step

[lethal burrow]

it would be odd that she would judge hornet among the spawn of those who "dared to flee" if she herself fleed

[silk dirge]

im pretty sure thats like the sin she committed not what weaver she is

[bronze turret]

Not unless she's being mind-controlled. And she's not exactly talking like a lucid bug

[silk dirge]

i think the good evidence for it is that the hunters journal says she is "ancient"

hornet also questions whether first sinner was the first to weave runes and shit

[sterile jacinth]

All weavers are pretty darn ancient

[lethal burrow]

Sure, but you can say anyone is mind controlled

[silk dirge]

yeah but the hunters journal says specifically she is an "ancient weaver"

[bronze turret]

Including her, is what I'm saying. If she won't serve willingly, she would serve by force

[sterile jacinth]

I can see her being the first tho i like that theory

[sinful nimbus]

Well all first weavers would be old

[lethal burrow]

Personally, I don't see anything pointing towards that

[silk dirge]

the cracked head is still kinda unexplained too but a good theory for it could be she was a prototype weaver

[sinful nimbus]

They were created an extremely long time ago this is true of the second third and fourth weavers as well

[silk dirge]

yeah

[sterile jacinth]

Was she formed with it? I interpreted it as a punishment for her sin

[edgy barn]

We see in her memory that she was formed with it

[silk dirge]

i think first sinner being the first weaver also goes with her being atla

[sterile jacinth]

Ooh interesting

[silk dirge]

weaver of time being the first weaver makes a lot of sense

[lethal burrow]

that doesn't make much sense? first of the first? first sin of what? or first what of the sin? also other tablets in the slab don't structure it this way when it comes to the sin, so it will be odd for them to shake it up here

[sinful nimbus]

I mean the sin is described in the very next line too

[sterile jacinth]

She could have been the first to exist and also the first to sin

[silk dirge]

first being the first person to commit the sin of apostasy

[silk dirge]

im wondering if she just evolved pharlid divers from then on then

[sterile jacinth]

Someone’s gotta write fan fiction about weaver society

[silk dirge]

maybe first sinner being cracked has something to do with her finding out the truth or smth idk

[lethal burrow]

then what is "of the" doing in this sentence?

[sterile jacinth]

That was what i was thinking

[silk dirge]

and gms realized this and then only evolved divers from then on

[lethal burrow]

Her mask is cracked when she's first made so she would've had to have known from the start then

Wait, I might be misinterpreting what you're saying never mind

[silk dirge]

i mean maybe the cracked mask was able to let her find it later on

like it didnt auto mean she knew it

[lethal burrow]

yeah ok fair

[bronze turret]

Ok, so I was revising all the dialogues involving Widow. Guess I did misinterpret the situation, indeed

[sinful nimbus]

In all fairness the Citadel describes weaver heritage differently in the Cradle, I could see it being "First person of the first people to commit apostasy"

[edgy barn]

Can't be. If it is First (Sinner) of the First (Sin), then that means the Twelfth of the First also commited apostasy, however we know their sin is unnamed

[silk dirge]

do we think twelth of the first is widow

that would make sense but im not sure about it

[lethal burrow]

i do

[silk dirge]

that would explain what "first" means in this case

someone also mentioned the punishment of casting is consistent with what happened to widow

[bronze turret]

I guess I was just under the assumption the pins served to bind and keep her obedient to avoid escaping a second time.

[sterile jacinth]

I thought they were just to suppress her silk

[fresh badger]

Casting is like, being entombed in material, not getting mutilated

[sterile jacinth]

Now im imaging a widow fight where she’s unbound

[silk dirge]

i mean she couldve been cast into a form to serve

[lethal burrow]

I thought it was saying, funny words, and then making magical spells

[bronze turret]

That too. As in, she wouldn't be able to do anything if her powers and will got suppressed, that's why I had one such theory. But I guess the "those who dared to flee" line leads to the theory that she was one of the few who refused to plot against GMS, provided that she was within her wits when she said it

[fresh badger]

Yea but thats just making stuff up

[silk dirge]

i mean otherwise i have no idea what penance by casting could mean

[fresh badger]

Nuh nuh you forgot the components to activate the spells

[sterile jacinth]

Evil wizards 😔 /j

[lethal burrow]

in seriousness Maybe she was forced to do some sort of specific magic as penence

(maybe that's whatever the Weaver memory is in the cradle)

[edgy barn]

You could almost say she was strung to serve

[lethal burrow]

I don't know. I'm just throwing out ideas

[silk dirge]

what weavenest was shown in that memory

[sterile jacinth]

I think the cast into a material is more likely

[fresh badger]

That conflicts the pins binding her silk imo

[silk dirge]

im curious

[sterile jacinth]

I think he’s talking about first sinner?

[fresh badger]

Widow

[lethal burrow]

strung is a combination of Saint (st) and rung (bell related)

[edgy barn]

Strung to Serve is btw a Widow quote.

[bronze turret]

Casting is also a word for creating an object by pouring molten metal into a mold. I'm guessing maybe they poured molten metal onto the sinner, Game of Thrones style

[sterile jacinth]

That’s what i was thinking

Ouch

[lethal burrow]

True, but it's also a word for binding.

"have the prisoner be cast in chains and thrown in the dungeon"

[sterile jacinth]

Could be both

[bronze turret]

True

[sinful nimbus]

That would probably fall under constriction

[bronze turret]

Yeah I guess being cast in chains sounds more plausible

[sinful nimbus]

Do you think it was a Deep Docks intern doing this

[silk dirge]

yeah

not ballow

[bronze turret]

Definitely

[silk dirge]

ballow is too good to do that

[lethal burrow]

Star in multiple words can mean similar things:

[fresh badger]

Definitely ballow, he knows how to operate the evil ancient weaver diving bell

[sinful nimbus]

I heard Ballow's dialogue was changed to be less rude to Hornet at the beginning

They're stripping away my boys charm

[sinful nimbus]

What does this even mean

[edgy barn]

the diving bell does not look like a weaver creation

[sinful nimbus]

Ignoring that, "Constriction" is the word used to refer to First Sinner's plight, its also far more intuitive than the word... cast being used to refer to being chained which... doesn't really seem gramatically correct

[molten python]

Casting could also mean assigning the parts in a play/film to an actor. Maybe she was actually just taking part in a theater production.

[silk dirge]

trobbiooooo

[bronze turret]

TROBBIOOOOO

Punishment: having Trobbio as your theatre director

[silk dirge]

penance by emo kid

[chilly mesa]

lace is a child it’s cannon

[silk dirge]

yes

[chilly mesa]

seal forn is a new tool that’s getting added it’s cannon

[bronze turret]

Ah, I think I should point out, and I don't meant to be pedantic, but cannon is the weapon.

[fresh badger]

Btw what do yall think is with the sweetsmelt and smokerock being sent up to the citadel from deep docks

Smelt shovellers are probably shovelling sweetsmelt (which looks identical to flintstone and forge dsughter forge has flintstone in the walls)

Smokerock is being panned by the stubby dudes for like more rare metals presumably

[sinful nimbus]

Fun fact actors had less rights in Ancient Rome than the average joe

[chilly mesa]

idk how to spell

[sterile jacinth]

Punished by having to listen to trobbio being melodramatic for eternity and listening to his bad poetry

[bronze turret]

Well, now you know!

[silk dirge]

trobbio would definitely write a 1600s love poem to torture english students

[muted lantern]

do we know what the brownish material the skarr collect in their baskets are? we can see them most clearly in the gauntlet shakra joins us in hunters march

[sterile jacinth]

I love trobbio but im trying to get the speedrun achievement and he is kicking my ass

[lethal burrow]

Just like New Zealand then

[rocky chasm]

Does anyone know how Pharloom’s recording system works? The lore boards in Deep Docks and Greymoor reference measures and beats. We know a beat equals to 4 rosaries from Lumble. But I’m wondering if “thirty measures, 4 beats Smokerock” mean— Thirty*(4 * 4 Smokerock+8*4 Sweetsmelt)? Or am I way off

[barren beacon]

So if Needle strike are like petting for the Bell Beast, why does she roar in pain and fall over once you "defeat" her?

[silk dirge]

i dont think that was a serious tweet lol

[muted lantern]

i mean we could easily interpert the nailswings in combat as intended to cause harm, while when we are petting her we are just thwacking her with the flat of the needle

[rugged storm]

guys, wanna look at the map and see where there's room for dlcs

ice boss dlc

plasmium dlc

pharloom bay

[sterile jacinth]

Pharloom bay is in that little spot above verdania

[silk dirge]

oh yeah i hope they add something to brightvein

[rugged storm]

yeah ik, everyone knows it already so no point sending the image

[silk dirge]

its too cool of an area for just a mask shard

[rugged storm]

fr

[sterile jacinth]

Where is that again?

[silk dirge]

id be down if you do some activity there that lets you challenge fayforn

and then you get to use fayforn to fly to like steel city

[muted lantern]

if we fight fayforn we should get a faydown pillow for our bellhome

[silk dirge]

sure

[rugged storm]

also, comparing the bell beast maps and world map, do the tunnels run through the empty spaces?

[silk dirge]

i dont want a fayforn pillow for my bellhome tho i want it for my irl home

itd be a perfect compliment to my fat fuck seal pillow

[muted lantern]

team cherry should genetically engineer a real fayforn using their silksong money so we can get irl faydown merch

[lime osprey]

My favorite thing mfs do with HK lore is take one piece of dialogue and go to the moon with it. Like 99% of people believe that bugs must have silk within their shell to become haunted

[muted lantern]

i mean theres more than one line implying that

[lime osprey]

Oh really?

[molten python]

If you're referring to the Whiteward experiments, then yes there's multiple lines, but they only confirm that the embedded Silk made it easier to Haunt them.

[sterile jacinth]

They all have soul. Silk is just another form of soul. That’s what gms is manipulating. The white ward experiments made it a lot easier for gms to break their minds

[fiery knot]

Where did you learn "silk is another form of soul" from? This is news to me

sounds plausible though

[sterile jacinth]

Im pretty sure it’s literally stated somewhere but im not sure where exactly

Someone on here could probably bring up the quote

I think it’s one of hornets dialogues? I don’t know

[fiery knot]

Seeing that grandmother silk is the "primal source of silk" wouldn't that mean shes generating soul somehow?

[sterile jacinth]

She is a higher being

[fiery knot]

If so that's quite interesting, but its kinda stretching what id expect "soul" to mean

[sterile jacinth]

Higher beings (and some lesser ones) have an affinity to manipulate silk/soul

The lesser ones in question being weavers (who were elevated by a higher being) and snail shamans

[fiery knot]

Difference is wouldn't she be generating it, not manipulating it? It would make her a source of soul

A higher being having an infinite source of soul shouldn't be too surprising I suppose

[dry bridge]

It's not exactly stated literally, at least not in the line I'm thinking of (the seamstress one)

She says hornet's ability to use silk is to "channel one's soul within a thread" and that "Silk and soul are inextricably linked" iirc

[fiery knot]

That seems to be implying things like silk skills are soul being channeled through silk, I guess its saying they can be used in tandem for powerful abilities, hence why they're "linked"

[trim prairie]

big question who is placing the “ daughter from a distant land “ thingies

[dry bridge]

Given I think this is likely given kingsoul's description from the first game

"Holy charm symbolising a union between higher beings. The bearer will slowly absorb the limitless Soul contained within."

[dry bridge]

Iirc those are mummified weavers who chose to mummify themselves in the hopes what they leave (silk skills) would help whatever weaver descendants came back to pharloom and properly deal with gms

[dry bridge]

They dont necessarily know its hornet that will be the one binding them, but all weavers are female and weavers left to hopefully find a solution in other lands, thus any future weaver who returned would be a daughter of a distant land (as opposed to a daughter of pharloom)

[fiery knot]

Seeing as grandmother silk made all the weavers (iirc) they'd all be "daughters" in a sense

[quick geyser]

Maybe but do you call your kin “daughters” or “Son” 😭 I mean, it weird in standard English form. At most, I only seen people calling each others brother or sister (even if they technically arent related)

[fiery knot]

I mean they all call her "grandmother" so correct terminology isn't already mandated

[sterile jacinth]

Small correction she is Grand mother silk. As in a mother who is grand

[stray fog]

What does this even mean

[quick geyser]

Where is this tablet?

[stray fog]

The abyss

Pharloom's abyss

[fiery knot]

Oh yeah you're right

[stray fog]

I know, but the line "we higher who see you seeking" is weird to me

[sterile jacinth]

Also hornet is from hallownest, which is pretty dang distant

[stray fog]

Higher

Were they higher beings?

[fiery knot]

I still don't think that outright deconfirms what im saying, but what I was saying was moreso just a shot in the dark

[sterile jacinth]

Could be that or is just saying how they’re physically from higher up

[quick geyser]

A lot of weavers also allocated to Hallownest tho

[sterile jacinth]

Hornet was born there tho

The other weavers were not. They were all created in pharloom

[midnight zinc]

Probably not, I think they mean they’re of higher thought, the void had no singular mind or will and thus was more of a force than a single being.

[stray fog]

Would team cherry really use the word "higher" here, knowing that higher beings exist

[sterile jacinth]

It’s vague. I dont know

[quick geyser]

It a possibility but like others have said, it might be because they are physically higher up since you know, the abyss is located at the bottom of the world.

OOOHHH OOOHH OH

[midnight zinc]

The AC were not higher up though, that’s the whole point, they dwelt in the abyss. Again, I’d say it’s more referring to their ability of higher thought as compared to the void, which didn’t have higher thought.

[sterile jacinth]

That explanation makes sense

As of right now i dont think we really have enough information to be definitive about who created the tablets

Could be any of these

Either way they revere it (which kind of makes me not think its higher beings)

[midnight zinc]

Well there’s no specific character but we know it was the AC civilization, and we now know that Hallownest’s Mask Maker was talking about their attempts to spread their kingdom across the entirety of the HK world. “Only that ancient caste ever attempted to lay claim to the whole” or something along those lines

[fiery knot]

I have a lore question regarding the sisters of the void ending, if the knight from hk is the void, then why would it attack the void tendrils that were about to kill hornet and lace?

seems like it was contradicting its own actions

[midnight zinc]

It’s possible that the meaning of the Void Heart charm description has been slightly retconned. Instead of it uniting the whole void under the will of the bearer, it simply united all of the shades. As we see, the knight is accompanied by all of them even in Pharloom’s part of the Abyss, but as you say the void in that area that had nothing to do with the vessels acts independently of the knight, so it’s possible the knight only controls the shades.

[quick geyser]

But if that the case, how come the void tendrils no longer attack the knight after it obtained the void heart charm?

[sterile jacinth]

Maybe the void is more animalistic and parts of it can be controlled at a time but controlling all of it is a little futile just because of how vast it is

Like its more of a primal force

[midnight zinc]

Likely because the all of the void in Hallownest’s Abyss is connected to the vessels. Millions of them were thrown down there while still in their eggs. It’s their birthplace, so the one that controls them controls the birthplace as a whole.

The question is why the knight attacked those tendrils instead of just… making them not do that, which it should be able to if it can control all void everywhere.

What does that have to do with anything

[quick geyser]

I mean the entire series suggests that void is a chaotic force that cannot be control or at least not entirely

[sterile jacinth]

Yea

[midnight zinc]

Embrace the Void changes nothing about the Knight’s ability to control the void

Yes it does, the tendrils in the abyss are calmed

[fiery knot]

Maybe not everywhere, just within its sights, perhaps the parts its not around instinctively attacks, similar to how it did before you get voidheart. So maybe the knight cant immediately gain control of all the void? It's able to control itself quicker than it can those tendrils

its like quickly shutting down its own primal response

[sterile jacinth]

The void probably does act on instinct

Which is why the lore tablets in the abyss seemingly embrace the inability to think and feel and praise the void for it

[empty flume]

No void has a mind to think

Who told the night to sit next to quarrel before he died?

[fiery knot]

You can have a mind and thoughts as a whole while still being very animalistic

[quick geyser]

Biggest proof that the knight is not hollow

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah pks plan was flawed from the start

[orchid pine]

Void has a really interesting nature when you think about. It’s chaotic and dangerous but dig deep enough into possible sub-context and there’s things like void having individuality

[fiery knot]

Im just gonna assume the void is like a dog and voidheart is a leash, you do have control, just not precise, perfect control.

[quick geyser]

What an analogy

[sterile jacinth]

Ive seen it more like a tsunami. Its a force of nature

[fiery knot]

"MICHEAL, DONT LEAVE ME HERE, MICHEAAALLL"
Grand mother silk probably

[lime osprey]

Yes this is probably the case

[orchid pine]

I find it really interesting the way void behaves. How things like the serpents are a culmination of void and act on their primitive nature, but also the fact that void motes somehow communicate with each other to converge on a bug to possess it

[lime osprey]

Yes it is also true that the embedded silk made it easier to haunt them, I’m pushing back on the idea that bugs can only be haunted if they have silk in them

[quick geyser]

Nah cause the love GMS had for lace was crazy. She literally got betrayed by lace on the spot but still care enough to literally resisted the void and kept lacs alive

[plush spoke]

Is the slab a jail?

[quick geyser]

Yes

[sterile jacinth]

No those jail cells are just there for fun /j

[lime osprey]

The only higher beings capable of manipulating soul to that extent are the pale higher beings

[plush spoke]

Only to trap the first sinner or every single bug there is a criminal

[lime osprey]

Or manipulating soul at all

[orchid pine]

It makes you wonder how void communicates with itself. Definitely crackpot theory stuff but it implies the idea of void potentially having something like a hivemind

[sterile jacinth]

The weavers can alongside hornet. Also snail shamans can. Other bugs can try but it doesnt go well for them (like groal)

[lime osprey]

Those aren’t higher beings, and they clearly lack the proficiency to use soul as the pale higher beings do

Though yes, they do have an affinity for it

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah thats not what im arguing. Im saying they can and have a natural affinity to it

I think we agree lol

[orchid pine]

Team Cherry should make a snail shaman boss. That’d be pretty cool

[lime osprey]

That is true, but nowhere near the same level as the pale higher beings do

And yeah we are lol

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah im not arguing that lol

[sterile jacinth]

Steals your freaking silk to cast spells

[fiery knot]

If they did i think the fight would be based around chasing the snail shaman as they summoned attacks around you, snail shamans dont seem the close combat type

[stray fog]

These dialogues lead me to believe that the ancient civilization used to turn themselves into shades using the void

If so, why do we never see any shades from the ancient civilization? They'll probably look different from the siblings because their anatomy is different from the vessels

[orchid pine]

Ooohh like those enemies in the high halls that siphon your silk to attack. That’d be a really interesting boss concept

[sterile jacinth]

I hate those things lol. Having a boss steal your silk/soul would be so annoying lolll

[lime osprey]

Honestly, i feel pretty underwhelmed regarding Hornet’s ability to use silk, as it appears most of the other weavers have way more intricate and sophisticated methods of applying silk. You would think Hornet with a partly divine shell would showcase a more profound manipulation of silk but that does not seem to be the case

[stray fog]

She absorbs every other person's silk powers

[orchid pine]

No I agree. Bosses that constantly run away suck, but if the theoretical boss in question wasn’t designed that way 👀

[sterile jacinth]

I mean you can learn all the silk skills and (this is a little different) changing your crest entirely

Which is i think a bugs nature

[modest oar]

It perplexes me as to how the pure vessel uses rune rage, or at least a similar rune ability, having no connection to the weavers outside of herrah, and I don't think the pale king would have asked for her help in training the hollow knight

[sterile jacinth]

Plazmified zango my beloathed

[lime osprey]

The ability to change crests is almost certainly from her being Wyrm spawn, not from her weaver strain

[orchid pine]

It’s supposed to be like Ghosts focus but somehow concentrated into an attack

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah thats fair. All the weaver skills is probably unique to hornet tho

[stray fog]

The wingsmoulds were made with runes, probably with the help of weavers, and the hollow knight was sealed inside a seal of binding, made by the weavers. The path of pain has seals of binding.

So its not unlikely that the pale king would have asked the weavers to help

[ocean crown]

Not rune rage

[stray fog]

Although thk's rune rage like attack is actually its focus iirc

[sterile jacinth]

I mean having the ability to use all of them

[lime osprey]

I suppose that is truthful, no doubt she’s exceptional amongst the weavers, it’s just her application of silk beyond binding seems a bit lackluster for, what we assume would be, her inherited affinity to soul

[sterile jacinth]

I think that manifests in the crest changing which is definitely something i dont think regular bugs can do

[lime osprey]

The first sinner could bind and heal herself as well so probably not

[sterile jacinth]

I mean the ability to use all of them

[orchid pine]

I doubt Weavers are absolutely the only species that can use Runes. Wyrms would make a likely candidate for something else that could

[ocean crown]

Well we see first sinner use bind and rune rage so it’s not out of the question that they can use more

[sterile jacinth]

Im assuming it wouldnt be easy to learn more than one. Binding seems like something all weavers can do while silk skills seem learned

[stray fog]

Also, are seals of binding now called runes, or are they different things?

[orchid pine]

Are they not just called Bindings?

[edgy barn]

The seal of binding is a very specific thing.

[lime osprey]

Mmmmmmmm maybe..? I don’t really associate crest malleability with soul inherently. As that is only an ability 1 out of 3 pale higher beings have shown, though Lace might also maybe do it once

[fiery knot]

the rune rage ability looks a LOT like pure vessels soul focus attack

[orchid pine]

@fiery knot

[stray fog]

Please elaborate

[sterile jacinth]

It read to me like changing your nature entirely. I think this is supported by where you get all the crests. This shouldn’t be something normal bugs can do (lace is also not a normal bug)

[orchid pine]

This is actually a really good explanation

[sterile jacinth]

Like you literally bind a corpse of something. It read to me like youre absorbing their nature and soul into something you can change your nature to

Hmm I’ve said nature too much

[sterile jacinth]

Thank you lol

[lime osprey]

Oh, I’m saying her being able to change her crest is something she got from her father, yes it is a trait that common bugs do not have, or even weavers. I’m also saying that it has nothing to do with her proficiency with soul/silk

[edgy barn]

" Intricate seal of ancient design.

Used to contain a powerful force, or to preserve something of great importance."

[stray fog]

Is that the only seal of binding?

[edgy barn]

Anything that looks like this is a seal of binding. Anything that doesn't, is not.

[orchid pine]

Can Hornet use soul? Theoretically she should be able to due to her Wyrm lineage

[lime osprey]

Ok well maybe it has something to do with soul lol

[sterile jacinth]

I think it does have something to do with soul. Where else would the bugs nature come from other than hornets affinity for manipulating soul?

[stray fog]

Oh

[ocean crown]

If she wanted to maybe?

[quick geyser]

It is not explicitly shown but the seal of binding was also used for THK to contain the radiance so I guess there are 2

[stray fog]

Her weaver nature already lets her generate silk (soul), her pale nature probably only amplifies that

[lime osprey]

Void beings do not typically have soul yet it is possible they still have some form of crest or nature, but i see what you’re saying

[orchid pine]

Silk is not soul

[lime osprey]

Welllllll

[edgy barn]

Silk is made out of Soul

[ocean crown]

Silk is not soul

[sterile jacinth]

More evidence to vessels never being perfect hehe. In all seriousness they probably got that from pk

[orchid pine]

Source?

[edgy barn]

The materium description

[modest oar]

It's said in-game that silk is "a fine thread spun from the soul of its creator" so would it be so far off as to say that what hornet is doing isn't too far off from thk? I mean the rune rage animation is already extremely close to the bind animation.

[stray fog]

Why did silk being soul become debated

[orchid pine]

Oh that’s cool

[lime osprey]

Silk is an intermediate state of soul which has special properties, attributes, and utilizations (apart from regular soul)

[stray fog]

Did something new come up?

[ocean crown]

Oh I am so sorry

[quick geyser]

In short, silk is generated from soul

[lime osprey]

Yeah that’s my theory too, the reason why vessels do not die after losing their shell is that their nature is too malleable like Hornet’s. Also when TK acquires the Kings brand, they are likely changing their crest

[fiery knot]

Its also possible team cherry just thought "it would look super cool if the knight saved hornet by slashing the tendrils" and they were right. They just made one little mistake in a single scene regarding the void.
-# im aware the convo moved on i just thought of this

[orchid pine]

That means weavers have a unique type of soul that allows only them to be able to generate silk. That also implies that GMS can tamper with the soul of a being

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah probably

[sterile jacinth]

Shes literally the source of the haunting i think this is confirmed lol

[edgy barn]

The idea of King's Brand being a crest change still does not make sense to me. It has none of the effects of a crest and the way it is described makes it seem like a physical mark in the Knight's shell.

[orchid pine]

I mean sure, the haunting directly affecting a bugs soul makes sense. I just never thought of it that way

[stray fog]

Wait what if the reason the ancient civilization were so obsessed with shades was to become immortal?
And maybe the AC didn't go extinct, but they're all shades in the abyss somewhere

Idk why I bring AC into everything

[lime osprey]

It is not a physical mark simply because we know bugs, with no idea of what it would look like, remark on The Knight’s regal presence

[ocean crown]

Clearly? You see her possessing bugs

[sterile jacinth]

One with the void

[stray fog]

They *embraced* it

[quick geyser]

Considering GMS is a pale being, that not too surprising

[orchid pine]

^ @ocean crown

[stray fog]

Im making this my new headcanon

[ocean crown]

Sorry I had to do smth mid type and sent it anyway

Also is it just me or does fully upgraded crest of the hunter look like the hunter from hk? Or is it just weaver eyes

[sterile jacinth]

They are doing great as unfeeling void

-# if they are unfeeling

[lime osprey]

All bugs have soul, it is inherent to having a shell it appears. The weavers appear to be able to string the soul of their own shell to use, while TK appears to be able to steal soul of other bugs and use that for themselves. Hornet appears to be able to do both

[quick geyser]

It can be both

[edgy barn]

Weaver eyes. The evolved hunter crest is meant to represent both of Hornet's lineages (hence the PK horns)

[orchid pine]

I actually disagree. I feel like void is more individual than we think and while LOS has control over void, that may not necessarily mean it has 100% control over void creatures

[ocean crown]

But why would it be hunter

[lime osprey]

The hunter is very weaver-like regardless, in appearance at least

[ocean crown]

Ohhhh

[sterile jacinth]

Hunter is hornets nature. It’s what you start with

[orchid pine]

You are like the 4th person to not realize I wrote a follow up message to that

[sterile jacinth]

All the others are gained by absorbing the souls/natures of others

[quick geyser]

I think It could be a ref, Hornet is remarked as a hunter by multiple Npc including the hunter himself in HK

[lime osprey]

And where if that follow up

[sterile jacinth]

Right here

[ocean crown]

Ik ik I was responding to the person who said it could be both lol

[sterile jacinth]

She is a child of both weaver and wyrm

[ocean crown]

Ik? i never said she wasn’t

Read the message I replied to

[sterile jacinth]

Im remarking not arguing

[ocean crown]

Oh

My apologies original gangster

[sterile jacinth]

All good

[ocean crown]

Friend inside me/ref

[lime osprey]

Oh ok i see it, and yeah i agree. It appears that silk is generated from the soul of the weavers within their own shell involuntarily. I don’t think they do it manually

[sterile jacinth]

No this cannot be forgiven. Now empty the compartments of your pantaloons /ref

[ocean crown]

Yes you got the reference!

[sterile jacinth]

Lolll

[sterile jacinth]

It could be both

[orchid pine]

Dude I need Team Cherry to give us more void lore. I’m never going to recover from the fact that we never got the void expansion in HK

[sterile jacinth]

Everything is lost

[stray fog]

There was a void expansion?

[lime osprey]

I also do not believe they can reap silk from the soul of other bugs like the pale children can (excluding phantom and lace lol)

[stray fog]

We've been robbed

[orchid pine]

After Team Cherry is done with Silksong they’ll go back and give us the kickstarter goals we never got guys! Trust me!

[sterile jacinth]

Interesting. I haven’t thought about that. Would partially explain why widow can’t use it

[edgy barn]

Then how do you explain Hornet getting silk from the nameless town bugs, which are explicitly free of silk?

[orchid pine]

https://tenor.com/view/copium-cat-gif-27161395

[lime osprey]

Yeah that’s the main reason why i believe they can’t, that and hornet is singled out as being pale amongst the weavers

[sterile jacinth]

Soul

[lime osprey]

She strings silk from the soul of bugs

[orchid pine]

Damn Hollow Knight fans being too broke to give TC an extra 30K

[edgy barn]

...didn't you just say she couldn't?

[orchid pine]

Now we’ll never get Silksong on the ps vita

[sterile jacinth]

Interesting

[orchid pine]

All 7 PS vita fans are sobbing right now

[lime osprey]

Nah, i said phantom and lace can’t. Hornet and the vessels can utilize the soul of other bugs, dissimilar to the weavers, who only use the soul from their own shells

[stray fog]

😭

[quick geyser]

I have seen a post on Reddit that suggests the other crests could actually represent a trait of Hornet. E.g: the architect crest. Some of her Hunter entry for certain enemies suggests that she has a knack for utilizing everything or interests in construct/engineering. You know who else also shared this trait? The pale king who is her father.

[edgy barn]

Oh alright.

[lime osprey]

Well the weavers don’t really use the soul in their shells, it is strung into silk automatically but yeah

[sterile jacinth]

Could be. That’s a bit of a strenuous connection i think. You can use tools without the architect crest. I think it’s pretty telling you get all the crests by a corpse or at least the very powerful presence of other bugs or souls

Witch crest is weird

[stray fog]

We see Hornet parkouring over wingsmoulds in the red memory

Did the pk fr make his palace a takeshi's castle episode

[stray fog]

Imagine having to do parkour to go meet your father

[sterile jacinth]

“Time for dinner hornet”
“Fuck”

[stray fog]

😭

[lime osprey]

The layout of the White palace likely altered after being moved into the dream realm, it likely became twisted and non Euclidean

[orchid pine]

Silksong lore is very cool. Anyway, here’s some very cool unrelated ganondorf art

[sterile jacinth]

Oh my god Gannon from silksong is the roaring knight

[lime osprey]

Time to have the #real conversations. That was 100% the White Lady conversing with Hornet in the Red Memory in real time

[stray fog]

Yeah

[orchid pine]

Oh that reminds me, I know this isn’t the right channel, but I don’t remember seeing this in any of the trailers or teasers for the game. Should I be worried?

[sterile jacinth]

Oh for sure

What 😭

[lime osprey]

Yes this is true, but what do you mean from the lack of “…” i just thought it was obvious because of the nature of the WL and the sudden change in tone

[quick geyser]

You could indeed use tools even without the architect crest, but what I want to say is the architect crest represents her mastery over these tools and technologies. And in a way, she accepted the trait that she got from her father. I’m not good at explaining, so I would recommend you to read the original post where I got my inspiration

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah she could have gotten it from her father and that might play a role but i think its more likely that affinity came from binding the will/soul of the architects into a nature she can attune to

[sterile jacinth]

Because it doesnt really apply to the other crests well

[quick geyser]

Love how white lady was directly conversing with Hornet in that moment. She is aware that this is a remembrance, and it also a cool callback to her ability to know that she is being dreamnailed

[stray fog]

I never got the "our family is forever linked with void" part

[lime osprey]

Jesus i didn’t even peep this. That’s actually kinda sad, hornet didn’t fully remember the conversation and thus might have failed to retrieve the flower if the WL didn’t come in clutch and manifest there herself

[stray fog]

Also, hornet is slightly aware in godhome that she's in a dream

[lime osprey]

Dude they have like 40 billion progeny warped and shaped by the void

[stray fog]

But why "forever linked"
That's only one event

[lime osprey]

There will be no more pale offspring. The PK is dead, the vessels are sexless, and Hornet is infertile. Their lineage stops with the void children

Oh and the WL is binded

[stray fog]

Oh

Never looked at it that way

[lime osprey]

I mean even still, family trees are forever lol

[quick geyser]

I thought this was obvious 😭

[lime osprey]

It is, i just think it’s cool lol

Okay okay, the #realreal conversations is if Lace and Phantom are equivalent to the wyrm’s offspring in that they are pale children with holy shells too or are they completely different, incomparable creatures

Yeah i believe this too, their unique relationship to silk amongst the pale children give them different abilities than what we see in Hornet or the vessels. Like phantom is able to create somewhat of a pocket dimension in the form of The Mist, while Lace is able to project herself in the physical world and survive being lost to the void

[gray iris]

if sprintmaster was on the treadmill instead of loam he would be rich

i bet of sprint master were in the citadel they would promote him to grand reed

[quick geyser]

I also think that Lace is a parallel of the hollow knight. In other words, she is the hollow knight of Silksong. I have some evidence to back me up. Firstly, The achievement for defeating Lace in the cradle is called “The white knight” which certainly might remind you of someone…
-# It pure vessel
Secondly, the achievement for defeating phantom, who is Lace’s sibling, is called “Grey ghost”. You know who else is also called Ghost? That right, it is our old protag the knight, who is THK sibling.
Finally, if you explore Lace character, then it is pretty obvious that Lace despises her existence and does not consider herself a life.
“Life? You're too generous! This weak, wasting existence. This was not life, just a husk shaped to act as a child.”- Lace in the cradle. In other words, she considered herself as “Hollow”. And she might have reminded Hornet of the vessels, hence why Hornet replied to her with “Yours was life, pale one. Do not confuse your unique creation with its absence. I have seen others make the same mistake.”

[sterile jacinth]

Not the same but in a similar vein

[sterile jacinth]

I think Hornet and lace mirror each other very well. Hornet was forced to grow up very quickly while lace is sort of forced into a permanent state of childhood

[gray iris]

lace can go pretty fast they should put her on the treadmill

[sterile jacinth]

Also they have daddy and mommy issues respectively

She would hit him I think

[gray iris]

the lore reason why lace is more expressive than the knight is because lace unlike the knight is not filled void

[sterile jacinth]

Lace isn’t void? Did you mean that the other way around

[edgy nebula]

lace is void btw

[gray iris]

else hollow knight 2 would be hollow silk

[sterile jacinth]

Where did you get that?

[gray iris]

if lace were void then she wouldnt need hornet to trap grand mother silk

therefore lace is not void or at least not 100% void like the knight

[quick geyser]

I’m taking this idea for myself, and I’m not giving to you credit muhahaha

[gray iris]

if hornet were 10% void and knight is 100% void lace is probably at 20%

[sterile jacinth]

Ah rats

[gray iris]

grand mother silk probably went down there when she made her

[sterile jacinth]

I really like lace and Hornet :)

[edgy nebula]

(joke)

[gray iris]

but she just put a little bit in the lace baby

[sterile jacinth]

Ok yea that’s what I thought. I don’t think she’s void at all

[gray iris]

gms probably milked one of those little leeches that fly at u into the silk egg and thats how lace was born

squeezed the little goober dry like a tube of toothpaste

[sterile jacinth]

What 😭

[gray iris]

u could probably make a more powerful silk if u squeezed a whole gargant gloom into a silk egg

or a more powerful lace if u squeezed a whole gargant into a lace egg whatever her name is

[sterile jacinth]

Wild

[edgy nebula]

gargant squeezing would be satisfying

[sterile jacinth]

Huh 😭

[gray iris]

thats probably how zote was made he probably has more void in him than lace

[sterile jacinth]

The almighty zote can withstand a little pathetic void

[gray iris]

injected and entire gargant gloom juice into a little bug egg and that made zote

[sterile jacinth]

He would simply not get haunted

[quick geyser]

Zote casually foreshadowing the entire message of the game

[gray iris]

i think they promote u into conductor if u make 100 rosary on the treadmill u get 3 gold bees to fight for u

[sterile jacinth]

He’s just zoted like that

[sterile jacinth]

Lmao no. You will never do enough

[gray iris]

lemme work this out

[sterile jacinth]

Salvation will never come for you. You have sinned too greatly

[gray iris]

1 bee is 10 shell shards

80 shell shards is 50 rosary

[sterile jacinth]

The underworks workers never get to go to the citadel. They’re worked to the bone and basically have to spend all their earnings to rest once a freaking bench. Or they can confess their sins and get a pre recorded message. They were never supposed to ascend. They are meant to die for their great citadel

[gray iris]

so thats 19 rosary for 3 bees

[quick geyser]

That certainly reminded me of a specific political state of the world

[gray iris]

nah if u make 100 rosary they definitely promote u to conductor sprint master could do it ez

they can still profit greatly

[sterile jacinth]

Hmm… theological capitalism… hmm

[gray iris]

as 3 bees is only 19 rosary

[sterile jacinth]

They’re not meant to. They are deviants. They have sinned

Lollll

They do not wish to be saved

Oh my god loam

[gray iris]

loam just sucks at running the treadmill

[sterile jacinth]

I’m so sorry I couldn’t save you buddy </3

[sterile jacinth]

According to the citadel yes he probably is told that

[gray iris]

whoever in charge of the citadel should farm sprintmaster for rosaries

[sterile jacinth]

I want to hang out with him in belhart

[sterile jacinth]

(Ok I know you’re joking but) sprintmaster isn’t allied with the citadel. He doesn’t care about it enough to spend his whole life running on a machine in a vain hope of salvation

[quartz heath]

im so confused on the endings (off topic from what you guys taking)

[strange folio]

im stupid is this a anceint civilazation bug or just big bug

[sterile jacinth]

I’m so sorry loam 😭

[sterile jacinth]

Big bug I think

I want to bring him to bellhart 😔

So you can be appreciated buddy

Ugh he asks you not to play your needolin because it reminds him of home/his childhood

Exactly. He thought he would be saved but no his gods were false

At least he can rest now…

[quick geyser]

Absolution granted after death.

I literally just quoted the board in the slab area 😭

[sterile jacinth]

Poor guy

Kinda reminds me of those restless souls where you fought unraveled

They respawn endlessly (according to like the 10 minutes I was there to see if they respawn endlessly)

I think Hornet says something like their souls will never rest

I wonder if that’s like individual bugs souls or like the general pain seeping into the shell and silk nearby

That seems to be the case for the unraveled and I can see it being the case for the other white ward enemies

[quick geyser]

Wait what?

They do?

[sterile jacinth]

If you go back to the arena you fought it in underworks

Well from the amount of time I was in there yeah. I fought a few waves and realized they repeated

What is that?

[quick geyser]

That made sense, even Hornet implied that too

The souls of so many bugs, obsessed with Silk, consumed by it. Their pain shall forever remain in that pit. Even I do not possess strength enough to cleanse it.

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah that like disappointed me. Let me help them

😔

Yes but now only their pain and vengeance remains

That place is so great I love being in white ward

Probably too blinded by pain and rage to really be conscious

[subtle plaza]

If the lore is so cool then why are the enemies and the boss ass

[sterile jacinth]

Me with gurr

I really like Gurr 😔 his boss fight is so easy tho

[sterile jacinth]

Bonus points for atmosphere but yeah unraveled is probably my third least favorite boss

[quick geyser]

Great lore.
BUT MID BOSS I HATE THE UNRAVLLED RAHHH

[sterile jacinth]

Better than plasmified zango who HEALS

[subtle plaza]

Probably the weakest silk heart tbh 😔

[subtle plaza]

And also palestag who's just extremely boring

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah. Pretty sure you hear what gms is thinking tho

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah those are my least favorite. Palestag is just so annoying

[sterile jacinth]

Which I think is really neat

I don’t think you want to be gms

I fought that shit with reaper

Ugh it took forever

[quick geyser]

“Yeah this boss is unfun to fight, no lore at all, no reward either. Let put him in the game cause why not”

[sterile jacinth]

No lore?? 😭

[upbeat star]

You take him out for the plasmium gland quest

[sterile jacinth]

What about the plasmium

[sterile jacinth]

You don’t have to you can do that to the other enemies

[quick geyser]

Trying to get plasmium out of him is miserable as hell

[sterile jacinth]

The fight in general is miserable as hell

I like the plasmium lore tho that’s cool. I like the vibes too

[upbeat star]

I killed him pretty quick but i was using wanderers and i crit a few times against him

[sterile jacinth]

I took spammed until he died

Tool

[upbeat star]

In my file i found him first rather than using him for the quest so i just stabbed worms

[sterile jacinth]

The three worst bosses all have like great atmospheres why

[upbeat star]

The only boss i take issue with is nyleth

[sterile jacinth]

Why? Lore or gameplay reason?

[upbeat star]

Gameplay reason its such a shit fight, the whole premise of the fight is to not touch ground and pogo but even when you pogo you get punished for stunning her because of her awkward as fuck hit box when she gets back up

[quick geyser]

Not sure about this one gng, I hated Nyleth at first but then I realized she was kind of fun after re-fight her

[upbeat star]

Not to mention just how that fight goes just makes the optimal play the most boring and safe thing to do

Eh you can bail on that fight if you need, you can just leave to the right if the fight goes south

[sterile jacinth]

I liked Nyleth once I figured it out. I do wish we got more lore from her

[quick geyser]

Nyleth fight actually encourages you to use harpoon a lot. And when you do, it was actually so fun

[upbeat star]

Oh my complaint on nyleth wasnt a difficulty one, its just an annoying boss that makes my hand hurt afterwards because the floor is lava shit

[quick geyser]

Hunter crest is perfect for Nyleth ngl, the diagonal pogo helps you keep enough to distance you can bail out if needed to

I have said this before but use your harpoon both for attacks and evasive option

[sterile jacinth]

This is some great lore

[upbeat star]

You mean clawline?

Well another centipede does run the vaultkeeper psalm records

[sterile jacinth]

Oooh perhaps

How would they end up in bellhart tho…

Maybe they weren’t good enough to be a vaultkeeper?

[quick geyser]

It called harpoon in the control 😔. I also like to call it harpoon because…

[upbeat star]

Probably was a home to an alchemist that didnt survive the haunting and the centipede moved in

[sterile jacinth]

Is zylotol from Pharloom?

That could have been his home if yes

[upbeat star]

Does he even talk about him self apart from mentioning hes an alchemist?

[sterile jacinth]

Maybe

I think that house previously belonging to him makes sense

He has a wife?

[upbeat star]

The dude gets lost in the lifeblood sauce pretty quickly he really dosnt divulge anything about his past

What does his needolin dialogue say?

[sterile jacinth]

Oh rip his wife

I don’t see why they wouldn’t live in the same bell house tho

[upbeat star]

Imagine the pin guy could die and rob you of the final upgrade

[sterile jacinth]

Oh dear

[upbeat star]

Ah so really nothing revealing about himself

[sterile jacinth]

I think his mind has kind of been taken over at that point

[upbeat star]

Rip to all the bugs that arnt higher beings who can resist its effect

[sterile jacinth]

He is not himself anymore

He’s not in his right mind. When Hornet is overdosed on plasmium and speaks to yarnaby she says she can feel it taking over her mind

While there may be something there it’s been overpowered by the influence of (likely) a higher being

Looking to spread its infection

[upbeat star]

Hornet is half higher being so she cant fully be taken by it

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah exactly

Or at least it would have a much harder time

That’s true

And he no longer responds to needling

Needolin

Real irs like 1230 in the morning for me

[upbeat star]

And then there is ghost, who can have infinite life blood masks, but hes a vessel kinda was made for the purpose of housing an infection to begin with

[sterile jacinth]

I got a paper to write 😔 eh I’ll do it tomorrow

[sterile jacinth]

Plus ghost is full higher being so they don’t really count

Ough yeah I’m so glad I did all my uni math classes in hs

[upbeat star]

Speaking of lifeblood and ghost, why is there lifeblood in godhome?

[sterile jacinth]

Maybe the godseekers have an understanding with the being that controls lifeblood?

[upbeat star]

Idk if its there for purely gameplay mechanic reasons because it is a boss rush and you can get some help with lifeblood or if they factored it into the lore at all

[sterile jacinth]

Either that or lifeblood has somehow wormed its way into the godseekrs brain and they fail to see its maliciousness

[upbeat star]

Well if they are a higher being they wouldnt see the issue

Because it has no effect on em

Why is the abyss creature blue tho? Is that lifeblood or is that just its constant state

So could it be the prime source of lifeblood? Or just that void formed around some lifeblood?

Well if silksong gets a lifeblood type update bonebottom and blasted steps might get fucked by it

[sterile jacinth]

Oh no

Nooo I don’t want to fight reanimated bone bottom residents 😭

Evil

I wonder if it would overtake moss grotto

[upbeat star]

Probably, i dont see why not

Man kris from deltarune would be jealous

[sterile jacinth]

Plasmified moss mother…

[upbeat star]

Could you imagine the dual moss mother fight but lifeblood infected them? That room is so small

[sterile jacinth]

Straight to bilewater

I don’t like you /silly

[upbeat star]

Instead of fire he just has lifeblood bombs

[sterile jacinth]

I doubt it’d reach that far

[lilac hedge]

It was sealed in the abyss by pk beacuase he saw it as taboo

[sterile jacinth]

Good call

[lilac hedge]

Its not related

[upbeat star]

Oh yeah the lifeblood door in the abyss, even tho its leaking out that door

[lilac hedge]

Its more like a creature who expanda its lifeblood to kingdoms

It intentions are mixed

[sterile jacinth]

I think it wants control but is a lot more subtle about it