sk-lore

[orchid pine]

How the story officially goes. Silksong is the main continuation of the series thus TC’s intended Canon. Silksong can only follow 2 of the ending given making those the most likely for being canon. The other endings can be considered possible outcomes but not the canon

[barren beacon]

Soure

Herrah all over again

[foggy fractal]

I mean its not like we know they'll follow up after sister of the void

[barren beacon]

This is also strue

[foggy fractal]

I know I know its painful

[barren beacon]

I've not been here for a hot minute. Do we know why The Knight had to slash the Void Tendrils away yet?

[molten python]

The sounds she makes aren't usually related to the meanings of what she is saying.

[edgy nebula]

zoteboat will be a prequel to both games, starting when he's birthed from greyroot and ventures through the sandsea wastes on his zoteboat

[foggy fractal]

the best answer that doesn't contradict with voidheart is: they chose to

[barren beacon]

[molten python]

Because the tendrils were attacking Hornet.

[edgy nebula]

they did it for hype moments and aura

[barren beacon]

Ain't no way the "The Knight just wanted to Aurafarm" theory was the Best 🎋

[molten python]

Greyroot is the White Lady?

[barren beacon]

The Knight just REALLY wanted to show off infront of lace I guess

[muted lantern]

its the repeated use of that sound only for bell beast in two wildly different context that makes it seem relevant, plus we get stuff like poshanka that have meanings in game so its not out of the realm of possibilty.

[foggy fractal]

ikr
if we go by what's shown and stated with voidheart in hk then it should be possible for the knight to just control it
but that doesn't mean it couldn't just do what it does in the ending, which is slash the tendrils away

[barren beacon]

It is what it is

We now cope until TC say something/DLC

[foggy fractal]

I mean its not like they gave us an answer anyway
either its a retcon or the knight chose to do it

[barren beacon]

RetconSong

[foggy fractal]

true,,,

[cosmic wing]

Imo it's because the knight is not in his full potential, which is the shade lord form yet so he can't fully control the void, he can only call/control the other vessels. Probably because silksong is the continuation of the "dream no more" ending.

[molten python]

That doesn't mean it's a name. It could just be the word for Bell Beast.

Also, it's spelled Eira.

[molten python]

But like it was already midway through slashing at Hornet so even if the Knight tried to control it, Hornet might have gotten hit due to the inertia, if we assume that void has mass.

[muted lantern]

Totally, im not saying its a 100% thing, but it can easily be read as a name, especially with the affectionate way she says it after bell eater

[hidden seal]

I assumed it was just a general call, like “hey!”

But i like the headcanon that its the name of the bellbeast

[muted lantern]

it could also easily be a title like hornet tends to give people

[hidden seal]

Its not the kind of thing thats gonna contradict anything or be particularly important, so its fun to think of it like a name.

[hidden seal]

The knights name is “shaw” clearly

[muted lantern]

no shaw is a slur for vessels, very offensive

[hidden seal]

Either or

[lethal burrow]

hell yeah

[muted lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/whatever-go-my-flea-silksong-hollow-knight-gif-15513825553456091676

why are there so many loose baby fleas in pharloom

whose kids are these lol

[edgy nebula]

it's tradition for flea caravans to travel through different lands, apparently the lost fleas are supposed to unite to the caravan but because pharloom has become haunted they arent for some reason

mooshka implies fleas are in every kingdom and just come to the caravan when they arrive

[muted lantern]

still not over the one fucking flea that managed to get trapped in the most psychotically dangerous and hidden room in underworks. How did bro even get in there

[edgy nebula]

which??

[muted lantern]

the one you find through wisp thicket

[edgy nebula]

oh nevermind i remember, the one with the sawblocks

[edgy nebula]

yeah, must be a parkour champ

only to get his fatass stuck in a barrel

[muted lantern]

in his defense there was probably snacks in the barrel

[edgy nebula]

true..

[topaz estuary]

Maybe the barrel was built around it

[muted lantern]

very tempting

[topaz estuary]

To capture it

[muted lantern]

they were fermenting him in a barrel to turn into flea brew

[topaz estuary]

Those underworkers can get hungry

Goodness knows Big Citadel doesn’t feed them

Glory to Hallownest

[muted lantern]

Fleas remind me of cats in the way that they can get themselves stuck into the stupidest situations, my old cat once climbed into a half constructed apartment building and got stuck on the second floor, we had to sneak into the site to get him down which was extremely precarious.

[topaz estuary]

I’ll add that to the list of reasons why I’m not a cat person

[muted lantern]

lol

[topaz estuary]

Honestly the number of clips I see of pets in general breaking stuff kinda turns me off of pets in general :P

[muted lantern]

yeah pets arent for everyone. I adore my cats but they are a handful

tho my new ones are indoor cats so i don't have to worry about them entering construction zones or picking fights with wild coyotes like my last guy. but they still get up to mischief

[mossy cradle]

is green prince gay or unconfirmedOk

[topaz estuary]

Yes

Ok back to actual Silksong lore: I genuinely think the Pale King was a better ruler and here’s why:

Pharloom was always a hyper capitalist dystopia (looking at you, rosary benches), none of the rulers did well even when it wasn’t falling apart, and Pharloom’s collapse was entirely their fault. They also polluted the entire ecosystem of Bilewater and have no worker’s rights. Also no education

Hallownest on the other hand was actually a thriving kingdom with a ruler who fostered the kingdom’s growth and he actually kept it running. The only reason Hallownest fell was a jealous deity that took their worshippers’ free will, as opposed to the Pale King, who actually expanded the bugs, free will. None of Hallownest under the Pale King underwent any ecological decay, and they even had an educational program!

[tender thorn]

Is the sky blue

[mossy cradle]

I'm lwk blind
-# trust me

[muted lantern]

ye hes gay, he refers to his partner as male, and they are explicitly lovers not just friends

[tender thorn]

Pale king propoganda /hj

[topaz estuary]

Propaganda can be true you know

[tender thorn]

Can be, yes

[muted lantern]

pk was no saint but he was certainly better than the conductors

[tender thorn]

That I'll agree to

It almost makes the mass infanticide bearable
Almost

[topaz estuary]

PK’s subjects probably would have gladly offered their children to the pale king but he instead sacrificed his own children rather than forcing others to endure that pain

[muted lantern]

Sure but we could also just not do the mass infanticide

[topaz estuary]

Also it’s not really infanticide since they weren’t really born yet (they were in eggs)

The void just went in the eggs and turned them into vessels

[muted lantern]

the infanticide is the leaving them to fall to their deaths and die horribly.

[topaz estuary]

I don’t think that’s exactly how it worked tho; my working theory is that PK put the eggs in the abyss, let the void enter them to create vessels, then whichever vessel was worthy would be able to ascend back up the abyss

Now I could be wrong; I’m not the most knowledgeable about hk lore

[muted lantern]

i mean yeah but the plan didn't even really work

[topaz estuary]

Just because it didn’t work doesn’t mean he was a bad ruler? He was trying his hardest to save his kingdom and that’s really what matters

I have a feeling the whole vessel plan was his last resort

Although I don’t want to base theories off of the absence of evidence to the contrary so I won’t die on that hill

[eternal gazelle]

PK hated the vessel plan so much that he called it his "great shame" and hid away the abyss not only to prevent anybody from learning about it but so that he would never have to look at it again

[muted lantern]

didn't say he was a bad ruler

just that he did commit mass infanticide

[topaz estuary]

That is true

[spark valve]

this is accurate, which makes team cherry 2 for 2 on protagonists gaining power via abortion

[tender thorn]

LMAO

If only real abortion also gave you powers

[edgy nebula]

pk lowkey such a tragic character

very cool and fun to talk about

[spark valve]

lowkey? it's kind of his whole deal

[edgy nebula]

"lowkey" cause for like 8 years everyone thought he was just an evil bastard

[spark valve]

dunno if I'd say everyone but it's a common misconception

[hidden seal]

are there any void masses in the act 3 section of far fields? The area we find Karmalita

I can't remember if there are, but I just ran through the area and saw no void creatures

this is a lore question not a gameplay question btw (it's about the gameplay but I'm asking for the sake of lore)

[humble peak]

I don't think there's too much lore to the void masses

[hidden seal]

I'm concerned about their placement rn

[muted lantern]

i don't recall any. but i imagine its possible karmelitas existence warded off some of the black threads from coagulating as much

[humble peak]

looks like there's one in the area

[hidden seal]

ahhh

which website is this that shows all the masses?

[humble peak]

https://mapgenie.io/hollow-knight-silksong/maps/pharloom

[hidden seal]

sweet, I didn't realise this one had masses (I've used it before)

[humble peak]

[pure belfry]

I wanna bring up a point from a discussion a couple days ago about whether or not the Shamans creating the silk snare trap to trap GMS in the Void is in contradiction with their original lore.

I've already established I don't think it is because 1: These are Shamans residing in a different kingdom, in a different time. The Shamans we find in HK may not have known about Void, but the Pharloom Shamans might. That and the trap isn't them directly controlling the Void to create a spell. They have no direct control over it.

Onto my main point: Even if you want to make the argument the silk snare trap is in contradiction with the original Shaman lore, or that it is a spell(It's not, not in the same way as The Knight uses Void Spells) and is beyond their knowledge, that still doesn't hold up perfectly. The trap isn't constructed entirely of their knowledge and relies heavily on Weaver technology. They literally couldn't make the trap on their own.

[humble peak]

why would it contradict their original lore?

[hidden seal]

what's the contradiction?

[pure belfry]

someone argued a couple days ago that the Shamans in HK didn't know about the Void and called it a "new power"

[hidden seal]

even though the spell summons the void, it is also clearly a soul based spell

[humble peak]

this is the weakest argument I've ever seen
most mainly because of your first point

they're literally different shamans lmao?

[hidden seal]

plus youre right it incorporates weaver tech

[pure belfry]

apparently it was also brought up the shamans aren't able to create Void spells

but again, it's not really a spell

[hidden seal]

this just isn't true

[humble peak]

don't you get descending dark from a shaman?

[stone herald]

i mean yeah hallownest was a kingdom and pharloom was a bug trap/prison for GMs

[pure belfry]

I think their argument against that is that the void aspect of those comes from the knight, not the shamans themselves

[humble peak]

So they're just making shit up

[hidden seal]

shade soul is also from a shaman

[humble peak]

oh yeah!

[hidden seal]

he's a bit tied up but it's defo a shaman

[pure belfry]

I can try and find the dialogue they used to support their argument rq

[muted lantern]

they crucified bro...

[pure belfry]

but again, I don't agree with them. I just wanna be fair to their original argument

[hidden seal]

yeah defo, don't wanna accidentally take someone out of context

[humble peak]

Though tbh I think a lot of the shaman-void connection in HK is sorta remnants of when the lore wasn't quite solidified yet
I take Silksong shaman lore as trying to sort of consolidate it as like yeah they're not made of void or anything, but they like, have some knowledge of it or something

[hidden seal]

I still think the snare isn't a void spell, from my view it's a soul-based spell used to open a portal (that happens to lead to the void lake)

though it does use the snare setter so maybe it's more than just a portal thing

[humble peak]

oh certainly

[hidden seal]

but shamans slurping at the void is defo canon to hk

[humble peak]

it's possibly something similar to what the steel vassal was doing, summoning the void from below

[hidden seal]

true

[humble peak]

could you elaborate i don't know what this means lmao

[hidden seal]

I haven't played through steelsoul yet though so I only have a foggy memory of a vid I saw

[hidden seal]

I just meant they are interested in the void

I was just saying it in a funny way lol

[pure belfry]

From HK, Snail Shaman's dialogue on Shade Soul. Implies the Void aspect does, in fact, come from The Knight.

and one more just a sec

[humble peak]

strong argument, no doubt

[pure belfry]

Dialogue on Abyss Shriek. Implies it's not within their skills to create Void spells.

[hidden seal]

though the knight has no way of telling the shaman that they got the spell from another shaman

[humble peak]

strong argument, no doubt

ok i was maybe too quick to deem this argument nonsense

[hidden seal]

it's entirely possible that the only living shaman we see is just one that doesn't have experience with void spells

[humble peak]

though I still think it's instantly debunked by them being different shamans lol

[muted lantern]

honestly to me it comes off that the one shaman we know is lying or out of the loop, considering the other shamans seem to be full of black particles that grant us the void spells.

[hidden seal]

though the shriek is the one spell you don't get from a shaman iirc

[hidden seal]

I don't think the shamans are made of void if that's what you're saying

[edgy nebula]

the void spells are because the knight is fusing their essence with the soul spells, not because theyre using the shaman's essence

[muted lantern]

no, but it seems to be void particles that shoot off them to give us the spells

[stray fog]

Yeah what's the deal with that shriek room

[hidden seal]

ahhh I understand

[hidden seal]

still ambiguous afaik

[edgy nebula]

my guess are the shaman's energies allow tk to fuse the shaman spells with their void

[humble peak]

their voices will cry out again

[craggy smelt]

some remnant of the ancient civilization

[pure belfry]

again tho, I think my arguments still refute their arguments because the trap isn't a spell in the same way Shade Soul and Abyss Shriek are. The Knight is directly manipulating Void when using those. The trap used on GMS doesn't, and also uses Weaver technology.

[stray fog]

There must be more

[craggy smelt]

probably

[hidden seal]

void and soul do seem directly compatible in a way few other substances seem to be

the radiance certainly doesn't seem compatible with void

lifeblood/plasmium maybe is?

[craggy smelt]

there were a lot fewer signs of the AC in Pharloom compared with Hallownest
maybe it was more of an outpost in their civilization

[stray fog]

That's weird because pale and void are opposites, and pale beings have power over soul

[stray fog]

Soul is like in the middle of void and pale

[hidden seal]

opposites, but maybe not like oil and water

they still seem to be able to mix

[humble peak]

opposites attract, don't they?

[stray fog]

The knight can use lifeblood so ig it is compatible

[humble peak]

hornet mentions that void seeks to consume things with soul or something
and we see how void ends up fusing with the soul-based silk threads of GMS in act 3

[hidden seal]

soul is like fuel for the void then maybe?

like a kind of food

[pure belfry]

So in short, the trap is not a spell like the Void spells in HK are, as it does not directly manipulate or control Void in the same way, and it does not soley rely on the Shamans' knowledge or abilities, because it heavily relies on Weaver technology.

[hidden seal]

though it still takes the soul of at least 3 shamans to power (unclear if caretaker uses any of his iirc), so it's clearly using at least some of their knowledge and power

[stray fog]

Are the snail shamans in silksong drenched in void?

[pure belfry]

yes it obviously does use some. But it is still within the limits of their knowledge because they aren't contributing anything relating directly to the Void or The Abyss

[craggy smelt]

Void mimicking Soul can also be seen in the first game, with the spells the Knight upgrades, as well as their Shade learning purely 'Void' versions of spells

[fathom hill]

when did they change the channel's name

why is it silk kong now

[craggy smelt]

skong is funnier

[stray fog]

And kingsoul becoming voidheart

[hidden seal]

I think so we don't use the acronym SS

[pure belfry]

Donkey Kong Bananza is canon to Silksong now after new lore discoveries

[hidden seal]

@humble peakhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waffen-SS

we don't really want to be associated with these guys accidentally

[humble peak]

I mean sure but that feels like a stretch

[pure belfry]

yeah that too ig but mainly the Donkey Kong thing

[hidden seal]

it's close enough that plenty of ppl have mentioned it seperately

[humble peak]

people will draw any comparison

doesn't mean we should stop abbreviating checkpoint by its initials

context is key

[hidden seal]

yeah but we aren't doing this for the ppl with context

and it's not a major issue to not use a certain acronym

[stray fog]

Did the ancient civilization have some ritual where they used void to make themselves hollow? 🤔

[hidden seal]

it seems to imply something like that

but this tablet was in a weavenest no?

[humble peak]

just in the abyss i think

[hidden seal]

I forget the name of the abyss weavenest

[humble peak]

but iirc it was a weaver tablet

[hidden seal]

ahh, do you have a screenshot of the room?

[stray fog]

No

I got this from the wiki

[humble peak]

there are a lot of dichotomies represented by colour theory and similar notions in terms of greater forces
void and soul with black and white, lifeblood and the infection with blue and orange, light and void with light and dark
dreams and emptiness maybe? idk
the nature of these parallels isn't always obvious in lore but there's definitely something. Lifeblood and the infection have clear similarities, every pale being is shown to have some affinity to soul, rad with dreams

[stray fog]

Dreams and nightmares

[craggy smelt]

the tablets are the ancients, they worshipped the Void - there's also an arcane egg down there

[pure belfry]

the ancient civilization is just going to remain the most illusive thing in the lore forever

[humble peak]

i don't think there's any colour theory element to that, is there? and nightmares aren't exactly a sort of opposite force to dreams
but ig it's there

[stray fog]

The tablet definitely looks like its from hallownest

[craggy smelt]

meaning PK stole the idea from them, along with Soul Totems
we're gonna find a Void-powered buzzsaw down there one day, and it'll prove he didn't have any original ideas

[hidden seal]

possible elegy of the deep area? Memory of the ancient civilisation?

[craggy smelt]

that would rule

[pure belfry]

yeah that does look a lot like the lore tablets left by PK in HK.

[humble peak]

yeah that's def an ancient civ tablet

[hidden seal]

that's what the ancient tablets look like

[stray fog]

Maybe he got the idea of making hollow vessels from this potential ritual of the ancient civilization

[lethal burrow]

silksong makes me think team cherry played Rain world during development

[craggy smelt]

yea, that's what I'm saying

[stray fog]

This idea is goated

[pure belfry]

I brought this up a little while back. I don't think we should get a full AC reveal but just a glimpse using Elegy of the Deep would be really cool as dlc

[stray fog]

I want this

[lethal burrow]

The pale king saw a canvas left blank for many ages of the world and wrongly assumed it was a trait of the canvas that it could not be painted as opposed to a trait of the painters that they wished to see it blank

[hidden seal]

I wonder how far the ancient civ spanned. This is 2 kingdoms now with the same kind of ancient architecture/artifacts (arcane egg)

[humble peak]

it is weird they appear here too huh

[stray fog]

🔥

[pure belfry]

Maybe we enter the memories of some long dead archeologist npc who was studying the AC, and that's how we learn more about it?

[humble peak]

this goes hard but i'm not sure what it means
is void the canvas?

[lethal burrow]

yes

[craggy smelt]

no it's like... you're the canvas man
we're all the canvas

[stray fog]

If the abyss is a continuous ocean that connects the entire world, maybe the ancient civilization could have travelled to other kingdoms through the abyss

[lethal burrow]

The void can clearly have will imprinted upon it and such, but the pale king only had the window of knowledge the ancient civilization gave him and they clearly wanted to erase the self and all that

[humble peak]

hmm mayb

[hidden seal]

interesting idea

[lethal burrow]

and so through desperate times and incomplete judgement, he made a fatal, incorrect assumption

[stray fog]

On a boat...
A zoteboat

[craggy smelt]

or a submarine

[pure belfry]

Boats across the abyss sounds cool. There's also a light house in the HK abyss that keeps the Void at bay so it can be crossed safely.

[craggy smelt]

the ancients had some way of putting Void into idols and things, maybe they had ways of calming it to allow for safe passage

[humble peak]

like a flashlight

[pure belfry]

I feel like they definitely travelled across the abyss if they have stuff like Lighthouses

[hidden seal]

yeah ofc a lighthouse irl is for BOATS to avoid obstacles

[craggy smelt]

Hallownest built the lighthouse, it was atop some kind of Abyss column

[pure belfry]

oh true

[craggy smelt]

they were building down there, just like the Weavers did in Pharloom

[stray fog]

The ancient civilization must have known a more convenient way to handle void safely, considering they made a fountain from it (the place where you get shade cloak)

[stray fog]

Yes

[lethal burrow]

i've seen three DLC location idea ideas

1. pharloom bay: you go to the bay and sail somewhere else.
2. Elegy of the deep: more ashen mist heart type stuff.
3. fayforn travel: you do some boss fight with the fayforn and it takes you somewhere else.

[pure belfry]

Maybe the Lighthouse made by Hallownest is based on or at least reminiscent of technology the AC had?

[hidden seal]

the tower was there to begin with afterall

[hidden seal]

elegy of the deep is practically begging for more content

[stray fog]

Maybe the ancient civ had Everblooms

[craggy smelt]

I want Pharloom Bay the most, but I don't know what kind of major role it could play in new content
maybe just there for a few extra Wishes, a new tool, etc.

[pure belfry]

There's an idea. Maybe the light from the Lighthouse uses light from everblooms?

and that's why the void recedes before it

[craggy smelt]

I feel like Everblooms are probably more associated with the Pale and the 'first light', and Void guys would've not been a big fan of light stuff

[hidden seal]

I'm hoping a 3rd game goes to the place where everblooms come from

[stray fog]

Its plausible, and zmer could be the supplier

[stray fog]

True

[craggy smelt]

'Lands Serene' is like the counterpart of the ancient civilization, everybody there is crazy about pale stuff

[pure belfry]

what is Lands Serene? where is that mentioned?

[lethal burrow]

Obligatory Weed dealer joke, so people get it out of the way

[hidden seal]

ze'mer

she says it's where she came from, as well as the everblooms

[craggy smelt]

it's where Grey Mourner came from, and she brought her flowers from there too

[pure belfry]

I need to go back and play HK again. so much juicy lore I've probably overlooked

[craggy smelt]

that's not the proper name though, WL just describes it as 'lands serene', lower case

[stray fog]

Yeah

[craggy smelt]

who knows what the hell it really is

[hidden seal]

but it's defo not pharloom or hallownest

[muted lantern]

nobody in lands serene actually talks like that, zemer is just high as balls

[lethal burrow]

Second sentinel is so powerful they are one of the only characters to have visible fingers

[robust wagon]

The choruses too

[stone herald]

thats a cold as hell line

[fathom hill]

damn

[stone herald]

hornet's line "i would not seek it in these lands [because she needs it not so fragile and in stronger form]" implies that its not impossible for them to grow in pharloom (the knight did manage to grow them in hallownest)

[lethal burrow]

ty ty

[muted lantern]

with the timeline we have now do we think it's possible hornet knew marissa?

like were they both around at the same time?

[stone herald]

yeah its pretty possible

[stone herald]

wait was that real

[robust wagon]

yes

[craggy smelt]

no, you're the first person to realize and point that out

[opaque pier]

If the greyroot is zotes mother theory was true does this mean zotes father is a grey wyrm?

[craggy smelt]

the answer must be yes

[edgy nebula]

zote's dad is a sandcarver confirmed?

or like a gray voltvyrm

[stone herald]

how the hell can the second sentinel just have dozens of gears knocked out of them but function perfectly fine

[upbeat star]

Repair drones

[edgy nebula]

they have a stash of gear-shaped balloons in their torso and whenever they get hit they get rapidly inflated and flung out

[stone herald]

oh that makes sense

though its probably that as a combat robot the second sentinhel probably has a ton of redundancies like that

[upbeat star]

Its just a hit effect to denote you hitting a mechanical enemy dont look too deep into it

[candid briar]

silk lets them regenerate cogs silly

[sudden bison]

dear silksong lore enthusiats, i need a dose of lore so answer me this question real quick,
what does the "Fourth Chorus" (and the others of its kind) do in Pharloom?

[stone herald]

yeah but surely those gears DID something

and that is a LOT OF GEARS, what if they get jammed. but its really a VERY LARGE AMOUNT of gears

[upbeat star]

Also i see they changed the name of the silksong channels, probably a good call on that one

[stone herald]

what if you punched someone in the head and 5 eyes, 3 tongues, 2 noses and 6 eardrums flew out

[vague whale]

Fourth Chorus was sent to Far Fields to hunt the Seamstress

[stone herald]

oh thats really cool, i didnt figure that out

[sudden bison]

actually now that you mentioned it, you're right... should've thought of that sooner-

but what of the others though

[stone herald]

damn the seamstress really buried it

[mellow vine]

He even has one of the pinstress looking Pins Stuck in him when you First Walk by i think

[candid briar]

can you regenerate those

[sudden bison]

forgot about the environmental storytelling from the seamstress' needle to the Fourth Chorus' neck

[vague whale]

Yep, it does have her pin in it

[upbeat star]

And either in a really good spot by chance or she placed that bomb above it

[stone herald]

oh on my first playthroguh i thought it was lace for some reason then never reconsidered that

[stone herald]

if the second sentinel was silk based wouldnt it be haunted

[sudden bison]

i thought it was there by pure coincidence too,
but until i met the Pinstress with a familiar looking pin, and going back to the Fourth Chorus on my second playthrough, it clicked on me

[lethal burrow]

its silk fly based

[upbeat star]

Its being controlled like how the cogwork dancers are, the tiny luma fly like thing, that used to be a living bug

[sudden bison]

but the main question though is this,
it's called Fourth Chorus for a reason, presuming we go to the three of its kind in the Architect's chamber (with theoretically the "First Chorus" being the one in the Architect temple), what were they really made for, other than hunting people including the seamstress?

as in what is their purpose/duty on Pharloom?

[candid briar]

for the sake of me changing my statement, its filled with soul

[vague whale]

The thing that looks like a Chorus in the "Chapel of the Architect" isn't a Chorus, it's an Architect

[stone herald]

where would they get so much soul

[candid briar]

pharloom is full of victims

[stone herald]

no evidence of soul harvesting though

[vague whale]

We can see all three of the other Choruses in their storage chambers, with the 4th tube empty

[candid briar]

or i suppose the cogwork heart could produce its own
we have no idea what those fiends get up to

[upbeat star]

Have you seen the dead bodies in whiteward?

[sudden bison]

ah, was it actually three?

[stone herald]

as in the equipment to get and use soul

[candid briar]

twelveth architect being too distracted to turn them all on

[stone herald]

we dont see any soul sanctum type equipment around

[sudden bison]

could've sworn there were only two last time i went there...

[candid briar]

give me a real challenge

[vague whale]

Yes, there were 3 in Underworks all in the same spot

[candid briar]

soul sanctum failed im not sure they're a good idea to base one's work off of

[upbeat star]

Whiteward is exactly for that purpose

[vague whale]

Buddy, did you lose one of the Choruses

[stone herald]

whiteward is for PUTTING silk in people

[candid briar]

their experiments resulted in creatures turning into sad balloon creatures

[vague whale]

Honestly first time I was there I was so scared one of them was gonna get up and fight me

[sudden bison]

i probably forgot to count but i could have another look... just not now unfortunately (i'm at work)

but at least i did see the empty spot, which was presumed as the "Fourth Chorus"

but back to my main question,
what were they actually made for, other than hunting the bugs?

[lethal burrow]

A humanoid shape doesn't really make any sense for hyper specialized tasks so the only logical answer is that it was multipurpose for a general variety of purposes

[candid briar]

it has hands

[upbeat star]

Excavation? Maybe idk

[lethal burrow]

why not just drill

[mellow vine]

i just assumed they were made to fight and defend the citadel

[candid briar]

i mean fourth chorus seems pretty resilient to lava so i imagine an ambidextrous, massive, and strong automaton that (probably) follows orders well would be great for construction, excavation, hunting...

unfortunately it cannot handle massive boulders being slammed on its head. a shame.

[upbeat star]

I mean they have bugs that can make metal to withstand lava, the forgemaster’s assistant makes some for the diving bell

[candid briar]

big robot can lift big rocks

[sudden bison]

so far my guess is to carry excessive loads of stuff from Deep Docks/Far Fields to the Citadel..?
like wasn't there like one or two barrels of flintstone in the Underworks..?

or am i mixing things up again...

[upbeat star]

Btw in the terms of cannon lore, does steel soul differences count? Because a bug tries to summon the abyss in steel soul

[mellow vine]

Yes they definitely Count id say

The vassals of the Steel Guys have some Kind of affinity to summon void

Thats why jiji can summon your shade in hk

[upbeat star]

But in non steel soul jiji isnt steel

[mellow vine]

Yeah but jiji is most likely steel Soul jinns vassal

Sula is Steel seer zis vassal and Looks very similar to jiji and can also summon void

[upbeat star]

But jiji being dead in steel soul would be weird then

[mellow vine]

I dont think shes dead or is that ever confirmed

I Like to believe she Just is somewhere Else in that Timeline and jinn is in her House instead

Jinn says He doesnt Like rancid eggs but will buy them from you because "a friend likes them", probably being jiji

[upbeat star]

Or its tuk

[mellow vine]

Could be, but theyre Not connected in any way i know of

I feel Like jiji makes more Sense, especially with the new knowledge from silksong that the Steel Guys have vassals, with the vassal looking very similar to jiji

And also being able to summon void

[upbeat star]

Both of them are like rolly polly bugs yeah?

[mellow vine]

Yeah their Heads have similar shapes and their eyes and legs Look very similar

[night summit]

and, there are those small flies around. Those same small flies follow the needolin, they break hornet free, and if i remember correctly, in the original hollow knight, some soul bodies leave them after. Those flies seem to be "soul flies"

[muted lantern]

Man i love talking about the lore of silk kong in the silk kong chat

[cursive sinew]

Why is it sk anyways that doesnt make any sense

[vague whale]

they're called silkflies but yeah

[upbeat star]

Ye

[upbeat star]

Because it was ss before, its not a good name to stick with

[cursive sinew]

disagree. It makes sense.

[upbeat star]

Those 2 letters together have a stigma

[lethal burrow]

skong

[night summit]

The same ones are in original hk though

[upbeat star]

Those are luma flies

[vague whale]

Nope, lumaflies are different

[night summit]

Oh shit sorry

[upbeat star]

The silkfies have more wingspan on them, you see one land on hornets cage

In the start of the game

Er not the cage, but the bell thingy the devout was holding

[muted lantern]

these guys don't have foreheads, they have fiveheads

[craggy smelt]

I think Sula might be my favorite character in terms of design

they're too adorable

heheehee

[upbeat star]

You know, besides the whole summoning an abomination, which hornet had to take care of and in any other situation that would have resulted the death of sula but hornet spared him

[craggy smelt]

honestly, that makes them even cuter

little Void Mage

[upbeat star]

Well if hornet wasnt there, he would have died by the abomination, the guy is lucky

[mellow vine]

They might still be dead though cause the Masters are gonna hunt them down now. i really hope theyre ok

[craggy smelt]

it's gonna introduce Sharpe by him showing up and throwing done Sula's hood, before he starts a fight with Hornet

[mellow vine]

that would be kind of sick

I really hope we get more Lore on the Masters and the Steel guys

In Like a dlc of some kind

[craggy smelt]

yea, everyone's clamouring for steel DLC

steel lore was something I wanted the most, and they went and cut it

[upbeat star]

Maybe in later updates they will add pharloom bay back to the game? And expand coral tower? A steel enemy was suppose to show up in the coral area

[mellow vine]

Im so curious about who they are, why they do the Things they do and what their Connection to void is

[craggy smelt]

the little bits Zi added are very tantalizing

[mellow vine]

Yeah Same, i was so excited for it and then the Steel Guys never showed up

[spare sedge]

how does getting the hearts work? i thought that its just a memory, for hollow knight the dream bosses are already dead so it makes sense, but why do the ppl die when being killed in the memory

[mellow vine]

I think they would have probably appeared in multiple areas. They were Like assasins tasked to track down and kill hornet

[upbeat star]

Elegy of the deep

[mellow vine]

I think you materialise their Hearts from the memory Kind of Like the everbloom from the Red memory

[craggy smelt]

not only do steel masters restrict use of the Void, they can also threaten pale beings
my theory is they're some kind of balancing force between Pale and Void - pale white, void black, steel grey

[mellow vine]

thats actually a really cool Idea

Would make Sense Kind of

[craggy smelt]

someone's gotta keep these crazy powers from blowing up the world

[edgy barn]

If Hornet could just do that she wouldn't need the hearts in the first place.

[upbeat star]

If the steel faction was more concrete we would have seen assassins in hollow knight, that place was covered in void and void magic

[craggy smelt]

that was probably the plan back when Silksong was Hornet DLC

[mellow vine]

yeah i guess, the Hearts also Spawn outside the memory so it Might be Something different

[spare sedge]

ye it always confused me

[mellow vine]

There are also Cut Animations for actually ripping the heart from the Boss in the memory but they were removed, so it Might actually be Something else

[upbeat star]

I think its the result of having an intense moment within the memory something that can help solidify the heart into the real world and thats when she lands the killing blow on each of the memory fights

[visual glacier]

I tried to fill in the blanks for Ballow’s diving bell dialogue (first image is the in game text)

[mellow vine]

I mean the whole memory Thing is so vague anyways, why do the snail shamans teach you how to do it, but then the memories have all that silk and weaver stuff in them

[upbeat star]

Its because hornet is creating the memory

[cursive sinew]

Hornet or Needolin is why probably

[mellow vine]

And also there is that Tablet in the Memorium about Verdania being forgotten so i feel like gms and silk Might be connected to memories somehow

[cursive sinew]

Its the same type kf silk and shit that exists in all things weaver memories and shit

[mellow vine]

Might be but i feel Like there could be more to it, Like weavers/gms in General having Power over memories

[sudden bison]

my headcannon of that dialogue would be:
"Miss, mistakes overwhelming, retrieval impossible"
"Extraction cannot happen (???) repair, sorry miss"

[cursive sinew]

Naaaaaah thats stretching it imo

[mellow vine]

Hornet even says "im weaver enough to attempt it" to the snail shamans

[visual glacier]

Extraction fits better

[cursive sinew]

Needolin is a Weaver thing, it is the thing used to access the memories, Silk is tied to the nature of Pharloom at this point, thats it.

[upbeat star]

Green guy even remarks why he cant remember what is up there, and he is referring to a place that is clouded by webs

[spare sedge]

i think when binding bosses, you become one with them, the memory for needolin is widows memory

[cursive sinew]

Probably

Its like binding a crest or eva

[spare sedge]

ye because eva goes inside you

wait wrong wording

[upbeat star]

Silk generator eva

[cursive sinew]

The real gms

[mellow vine]

I just really wonder what that Memorium Lore Tablet about forgeting Verdania is about

[cursive sinew]

Memorium = a place to remember
"Destined to forget" = remove it

Thats my interpretation

[mellow vine]

Might Just be it yeah

[upbeat star]

Oh that tablet that was very robotic in language?

[edgy barn]

The memorium is about preserving the environments of pharloom so that they are remember and never truly long. They were either unable or unwilling to mantain the Verdania section, and thus it is destined to be forgotten

[cursive sinew]

Cuz its talking about the states of the individual displays. Verdania stuff mightve grown too out of hand or something?

[abstract mural]

Did we get any hk lore from ss?

[upbeat star]

Yeah

[cursive sinew]

I mean yeah?

[upbeat star]

Confirmation on what ending is canon for the ghost

[opaque pier]

A lot ngl

[cursive sinew]

A solid bit actually I think

[vague whale]

see if their Verdania environment broke, which it did, they couldn't exactly replace it with new Verdanian stuff because. Verdania got fucked

[lethal burrow]

idc essence still exists as I think that's part of the world just because it's not the main focus it doesn't mean it's not an aspect of reality anymore

[mellow vine]

Yeah makes sense

[sudden bison]

now i wonder, why was Verdania destined to be forgotten...

[cursive sinew]

That is still not quite true we dont know if its ETV or DNM

[abstract mural]

Anything about pale king and whatnot

[upbeat star]

Either way it shows him as a the shade lord

[vague whale]

If all their moss died they could just go back to Moss Grotto and get new specimens, they couldn't do that for Verdania once it was lost

[sudden bison]

did something happen between the two princes and GMS? or is the entire land of Verdania rlly unpreservable?

[opaque pier]

Only thing i think we got is the citadel bugs calling him the white wyrm but thats not really relevant so no

[mellow vine]

Nothing on pale King but i feel Like we already know a lot about him

[abstract mural]

How do they know about pk or even hallownest are they related

[cursive sinew]

The only things we lack about Pale King to my knowledge are how he died and where he came from pre hallownest I tink

[vague whale]

we know how he died

[cursive sinew]

They know about a lot of places in the world I think. Hallownest isnt a small kingdom

[opaque pier]

I mean wyrms are really big so its kinda hard to miss their existance but my guess is that gms had some kind of neural link to weavers so she knows where they escaped to

[cursive sinew]

How? Its implied to be void I think but like not confirmed

[vague whale]

yeah it void

[upbeat star]

Hollownest at this point is a pretty dead kingdom tho, i dont think pharloom would know much about it

[lethal burrow]

its void or "?????" so

[upbeat star]

Only the weavers who fled to hollownest know of pharloom but none of them went back

[craggy smelt]

higher beings tend to be weirdly knowledgeable about each other

Grim knew all about PK and the vessels, White Lady knew all about Grim etc.

Silk might've had the same god-knowledge, hence the Citadel (her puppets) knowing about the 'white wyrm'

[maiden meteor]

I mean it makes sense

gotta know your powerful neighbors

plus according to Godseeker HBs radiate with power

PK was so powerful his influence remained after he was erased completely

[maiden meteor]

We know he was quote unquote “erased completely”

and his throne room reeks of void sus

maybe hiding your palace within Void vicinity is a really bad idea

especially when void can easily breach into dream realm

speaking of, do we know how King’s subordinates are not infected

Palace is inside dream and it’s Rad’s domain

or can you shield dream realm even from her

[terse warren]

Rad is sealed in the HK

[terse warren]

Let's say James the puncher is locked in a cell in Iowa North

And George the punchable lives in Iowa south

How come James hasn't punched George yet?

[maiden meteor]

I mean by the time of game she’s already wrecking chaos

I guess reason is dream seal

it’s interesting PK was so knowledgeable about dreams n all

[terse warren]

It's like if James the puncher was spitting on the ants outside the bars of his cell

I wanna see how long I can stretch the analogy

[maiden meteor]

Also I just remembered, don’t servants explode into dream essence

which would mean they just aren’t real

[terse warren]

Yes

[terse warren]

Idk idr

[maiden meteor]

Unless they’ve somehow fused with dream stuff by being transported here?

Maybe they’re dream projections of living servants

like dream bosses

[upbeat star]

The servants break apart into shell bits

[maiden meteor]

I mean Royal Retainers

white guys

[upbeat star]

Yeah they also have like, what looks like a void creature in em

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0QnLG-JEzzU&pp=ygUMT2F0aCBvZiBwYWlu0gcJCQYKAYcqIYzv

[maiden meteor]

Only dead ones iirc

[upbeat star]

Skip to 1:59

[maiden meteor]

wait you mean flying bugs

or Kingsmoulds

I mean this guys

[upbeat star]

Oh them, honestly could also be the same that guard the path of pain room

Those eyes are hollow

[maiden meteor]

I wonder what tech PK used to warp palace inside dream realm

[upbeat star]

Wierd wyrm magic im sure

Probably with the help of the dreamers

[terse warren]

how did you miss shakra if you haven't beaten gms

[upbeat star]

A end sure

It says miss

[pastel valve]

Why is this in the lore channel

[upbeat star]

Idk

[maiden meteor]

So, can we talk about Cogwork Core

Citadel bugs were so lazy they built giant music box to play music

I wonder if Core served any other purpose

[robust wagon]

Then shouldn't gms be crossed off?

[upbeat star]

They did that on weavers request did they not? They were lied to why they are doing the work but its to keep gms asleep

[maiden meteor]

It’s reason of Citadel’s existence in general

but we don’t really know if Core was built on Weaver’s request

Basically Citadel’s function is to eternally play song

and Core is a perfect tool for this

[upbeat star]

Right to keep gms sleeping but its a temporary solution sense she is going to wake up eventually thats why weavers fled to find a solution, tho that could have been another lie and they just actually abandoned pharloom, tho hornet was probably the solution, to be the tool to solve the gms issue for good

[maiden meteor]

Hornet wasn’t really planned afaik

she just happened to be perfect candidate to reclaim Pharloom

But Herrah didn’t intend for her to go that path since she wanted Hornet to make her own choices

[upbeat star]

Herrah probably knew it would become a thing she would have to deal with, knowing how gms would seek out her silk anyway

Hornet mentions this if you try to leave while gms is still alive up in the cradle

[maiden meteor]

Yeah

Also I do wonder why Hallownest weavers didn’t take Hornet with them when fleeing

maybe she refused to leave Hallownest

and they left that one weaver to keep watch over her

[edgy barn]

She wouldn't have accepted

[maiden meteor]

Yeah fair

Hornet is honestly really interesting character

[upbeat star]

Having 3 moms will do that

[maiden meteor]

half of time she claims she does stuff for her own sake but then shows examples of extreme selflessness

I esp love when she tells Green Prince that key “just fit”

Like nah girl you purposefully freed him

[upbeat star]

Her way of not getting attached most likely

She has outlived mates in the past

It probably is her way of coping

[maiden meteor]

Or maybe she just hates people praising her lol

[upbeat star]

That might be as well

She isnt afraid to slap a bitch tho

Tho thats for bugs trying to steal or get handsy

[maiden meteor]

Peer again, you will die

I guess having all your mates die makes you pretty harsh

[upbeat star]

He was probably lucky he is a flea other wise i think hornet would have killed him then

[maiden meteor]

fluffy things is her only way to cope with reality

[maiden meteor]

I don’t really think she would kill any sentient bug right away

[upbeat star]

Um… flies

[maiden meteor]

Beating them up leaves a decent impression anyway

[upbeat star]

Have you seen her journal notes about flies

[maiden meteor]

I still don’t get why TC decided to make her racist specifically against flies

and then she just leaves new broodmother to grow

[upbeat star]

Maybe getting kidnapped and having her cloak and weapon stolen from her just made her hate them even more

[maiden meteor]

“Oughhhh all flies should die and rot”

Leaves literal broodmother that births them alive

[maiden meteor]

she still does racism bit if she isn’t kidnapped at all

Maybe TC intended for Slab flies to be haunted

so Hornet hates specifically haunted versions

and once flies begin anew without haunting they’re ok in her book

[upbeat star]

Idk or she could have had a traumatizing past with flies. We dont see all of her life when she grew up

[maiden meteor]

It’s like when Knight kills Flukemarm but Fluke Hermit is fine

Because Flukemarm was infected

[upbeat star]

Well, thing with HK is that ghost is a vessel, there is no thought in their mind just out there killing anything orange flavored

[stable venture]

Moorwing is literally just a bigger Drapelord right?

[earnest monolith]

Could I get some explanation on the cogwork robot's soul fuel?

[steep talon]

Big fluttermite. But moorwing was also bred to be this way, so it doesn't resemble them that much

[steep talon]

The what?

[earnest monolith]

Yk the butterflies that were experimented in Whiteward or smth

[steep talon]

Yee, what about them?

[earnest monolith]

How does it work? I'm mostly curious about the cogwork dancers, that both of them had one despite the soul being singular

Does it only give consciousness to the robots?

[steep talon]

One soul can break into several butterflies, at least it seems it can. There are some other places where it's hinted, nothing concrete though. Just something I noticed

[edgy barn]

no flies come out of the cogwork dancers when they break. I think they are just powered by raw soul.

[earnest monolith]

Does it depend on willpower or just on how great that being is

[steep talon]

Huh, that's kinda weird

[earnest monolith]

Well I thought I saw one from each

Whatever

[stable venture]

It looks more like a Drapefly/Drapelord to me. They have similar wings that looks like cloaks over their heads and they have pointed abdomens.

[steep talon]

It's kinda funny that GP calls GMS great golden leech. I guess he never saw her or assumed the yarn ball is just how she looks like.

[steep talon]

Well moorwing is called a mite, just like other greymoor mites. And drapefly is a... fly

[lean temple]

Who's that short for again

[stable venture]

but the land form of the Drapefly is called Drapemite...

[steep talon]

Green prince

[lean temple]

Thnx

[edgy barn]

Drapefly and drapemites are not in fact related. they just so happen to live in similar enviroments.

[steep talon]

I dont think drapemite and drapefly are the same species

[lean temple]

That could be the Citadel itself not just GMS, since the Citadel is actually gilded

[steep talon]

Maybe. "Atop their lands" read as GMS to me

[lean temple]

The Citadel is also at the peak or crest of Pharloom

[steep talon]

Yeah

[edgy barn]

Weirdly enough, GP says that Verdania fell to "thread and ruin" and Hornet responds that the citadel now shares that same fate.

That implies Verdania fell to the haunting which should not be possible

[shrewd coral]

grub

[steep talon]

I still think that's metaphorical, not actually the haunting

[vague whale]

why isn't it possible

[steep talon]

Haunting is a very recent occurrence. Verdania is pretty ancient

[heavy tusk]

why didnt gms come to hallownest sooner bc theres a bunch of weavers there?

[cobalt coyote]

Maybe didnt know?

[ruby gazelle]

The weavers trapped her originally, she physically could not

Her bindings loosened, thats how she got more weavers

They escaped to hollownest after trapping her

[heavy tusk]

why did the weavers in hallownest leave then? in ||red memory||

[ruby gazelle]

Get farther from gms

[heavy tusk]

oh

and they left hornet?

[ruby gazelle]

And herrahh

And the rest of the weavers

[heavy tusk]

why didnt the other weavers go

[ruby gazelle]

Idk, I think they thought they could protect themselves

Bc its a newer generation of weavers, they don’t know how strong gms really is

[heavy tusk]

k

also this is unrelatede but why didnt lifeblood in hallownest destroy everything like in wormways?

[ruby gazelle]

I don’t think there was as much of it, and PK placed a law banning the use of lifeblood

[heavy tusk]

also whats the deal with joni

[ruby gazelle]

I haven’t been into Joni lore before, so no clue

But probably just a drug addict that went into Howling Cliffs

[fading shard]

aight here's some lore

they were a heretic of hallownest as a as you said just a drug addict

[heavy tusk]

im so lost without mossbag

[fading shard]

I mean some people call me a mossbag wannabe in the silksong server

so you can ask me questions

[vague whale]

nobody calls you that unless they mean it as an insult

[ruby gazelle]

The skong

[fading shard]

I was referring to the silksong server

[ruby gazelle]

Oh so I was right by a guess💔

[fading shard]

I mean ashen

you know a ton about the lore too

same goes for zza and star

and weapon

[edgy barn]

No reason to think it is a new generation of weavers. Weavers 1-can't die of of old age, 2-have a lot of difficulty having children, and 3-there are no male weavers meaning any offspring would have to be a hybrid, all the while the red memory and weaver's den weavers look like pure weavers,

[fading shard]

this place honestly has a ton of loreheads

[ruby gazelle]

Oh

[fading shard]

there is a message talking of other weaver offspring

they even mention a 8th part weaver

[ruby gazelle]

Then I have zero clue about my generation theory

[fading shard]

which means 2 additional generations

[edgy barn]

I said it was difficult, not impossible.

[ruby gazelle]

They could have forgotten the gms escape

Like how hard it was

[fading shard]

though all the weavers that stayed behind are not a newer generation

[edgy barn]

Also, this is refferring to weavers in other kingdoms, not the hallownest ones.

[remote flax]

i think weavers aren't immortal like higher beings as i thinnk immorality is a trait higher beinng have but they have have bigger lifespan than most bugs

[heavy tusk]

who is the weavers "dead sire"?

[fading shard]

I didn't have the full context man T_T

I was just saying that there are other weaver children like hornet

[ruby gazelle]

Yes there are

Probably bc of PK

[edgy barn]

Well, Widow is a first gen weaver and she doesn't show signs of old age despite how long it has been.

[fading shard]

No

all of the other weavr children have no corelation to hallownest

[ruby gazelle]

Ik that im joking

[fading shard]

Herrah only conceived hornet

[ruby gazelle]

Yeah i know

[edgy barn]

nvm false alarm

[fading shard]

All the weavers in pharloom are the same weavers

[ruby gazelle]

Also, completely diffo topic, who were TK, THK, and the siblings parents

[fading shard]

that originally got ascended

[fading shard]

Zza can I explain this one please

[heavy tusk]

if hornet had many mates (great conchflies entry) why did she not have kids?

[edgy barn]

...Yes

[fading shard]

Thank you

[edgy barn]

She still has the weaver curse.

[fading shard]

I appreciate it

[heavy tusk]

but herrah could

[remote flax]

but then arett weaver equivalent to a higher beinng as they are incredibly strong and have eternal life also i think widow HAS aged (maybe) she just seems much slower compared to like first sinner

[edgy barn]

Because she mated with PK.

[heavy tusk]

is it because pk is a higher being?

[fading shard]

it has nothing to do with higher beings

zza

[ruby gazelle]

I think so but thats not mine to answer

[fading shard]

Hornet is said to be unique in nature as a weaver

[heavy tusk]

i assumed hornets other mates werent weavers

[fading shard]

because of her higher being part

[ruby gazelle]

You do realize hes a god, he can do pretty much anything

[fading shard]

the other weaver children PRESUMABLY were not

[remote flax]

maybe only pale beings can bypass the curse of a pale being

[fading shard]

........I do

[cursive sinew]

You're basically saying that Hornet should have kids then... because Herrah (non higher being) + pk (higher being) = a child
Hornet (higher being technically) + a non higher being = No child?

[fading shard]

When did I say he wasn't

[ruby gazelle]

Sorry I had to correct it

[ruby gazelle]

You said it didn’t have to do with it

[cursive sinew]

Not sure to what extent hornet would classify but she has the power

[iron fern]

quick question is gray root zote's mom?

[fading shard]

I was saying that the pale king had nothing to do with herrah being able to have hornet because other weaver children exist

[edgy barn]

That IS true, and now that you mention it, one of the 1/8 weavers was frail wirh age, meaning they couldn't have possibly been a higher being baby.

[fading shard]

and they are not part higher being

[remote flax]

most likely not ,that theory is probably a joke one

[fading shard]

jokingly yes

[heavy tusk]

were hornets mates also weavers? because if not why cant she have children

[edgy barn]

Maybe she just didn't want to or was just unlucky

[cursive sinew]

We dont know.

[ruby gazelle]

Weavers have difficulty reproducing, I think it was easy bc PK is a god

[fading shard]

the other weavers are female T_T

there are only female weavers dreward

[edgy barn]

why is that an issue

[remote flax]

i think weavers are exclusively females

[fading shard]

Children

conceiving children

[heavy tusk]

maybe weavers have different reproductive systems than humans

[fading shard]

Her mating with the other weavers is possible

but getting children out of it is no

[edgy barn]

Yeah but why can't she have one as a mate without concieving

[iron fern]

Hornet is half spider so maybe she ate her mates

[remote flax]

would that even be mating then(for bugs)

[fading shard]

I missunderstood the question T_T

[edgy barn]

She says they couldn't match her lifespan.

[fading shard]

I thought they were asking if she could have kids with weavers

[heavy tusk]

we shouldnt argue about this

its just silksong

[fading shard]

that was it zza

I just missunderstood the question I think

[edgy barn]

no problem

[fading shard]

actually that's another thing considering how regular weavers don't seem to be able to age

wouldn't that statement be a bit strange

[iron fern]

I mean it could go both was.. Honet isn't someone who likes weak bugs so maybe her mates were strong but not as much as hornet? (She cant be that old)

[fading shard]

also when tf am I gonna be able to see cloths gf that she mentions in dream nail dialogue

[heavy tusk]

cloth has a gf???

[fading shard]

Hornet doesn't have a problem with weak bugs

[edgy barn]

Oh yeah true.

[edgy barn]

She IS that old.

[fading shard]

threw off mention

[remote flax]

i think they DO age like widow claw attack and the running attacks were CONSIDERABLY slower than first sinner

[fading shard]

she is hundreds of years old

[fading shard]

.........Widow had two pins stuck on her back

and had her mask forceblly removed

and first sinner is just as old as widow

so I don't know what your point here is

[heavy tusk]

poor widow

what did she do

[fading shard]

grand mother silk being an ass is what

[heavy tusk]

why is widow seemingly working for her then?

[remote flax]

first sinner we fight is a memory no?

[fading shard]

no

[edgy barn]

She is

[iron fern]

I was kinda confused Shakra calls her a child and other bug calls her old

[edgy barn]

-dying to FS is not a real death (does not sent you to bench nor deletes steel soul run)
-Her needolin dialogue works the same as it does for Karmelita & co ( it plays automatically without the boss stopping to sing)
-the enviroment changes at the start of the fight, goes back to normal after it is over.

[heavy tusk]

shakras kind of young and stupid, the ones who call her old (shamans, mask maker) are much older and more knowledgeable

[fading shard]

fair enough

I was kinda back and forth on this

[heavy tusk]

but you can get it without elegy of the deep

[remote flax]

but then wouldn't weavers be a higher being as they are compareable to some weaker higher beings and have eternal life?

[edgy barn]

Also the arena during the fight resembles the look of memory sequences

[fading shard]

first sinner STATES that they aren't divine

nor higher beings, that was why they sealed gms in the first place

[iron fern]

If im not wrong maybe someone did say she had a youthful appearance

[fading shard]

they were PISSED that she lied to them

[remote flax]

then what makes a higher being a higher being???

[edgy barn]

You also enter Widow's memory without the elegy, as well as FS's own memory of having been a pharlis.

[heavy tusk]

yeah she looks young bc shes short but shes actually ancient

[cobalt coyote]

Being tall

[fading shard]

God

[cobalt coyote]

Higher being

[fading shard]

You have to be an actual god

[heavy tusk]

you know a lot more than me i wont argue

[cobalt coyote]

You have to be higher than a being trust me

[remote flax]

but then can we even consider hornet a higher being?

[cobalt coyote]

Shorter being

[fading shard]

she's a demi god

[heavy tusk]

shes half higher being

[remote flax]

lol

[fading shard]

the game even says so

several time

[iron fern]

Demi God effect

[fading shard]

the game calls her weaver said regular bug and her pale wyrm said as higher being

[remote flax]

but what makes her different from your average weaver then

[fading shard]

in different ways of course depending on characters

[fading shard]

her dad is the palek ing

[heavy tusk]

shes half pale being

[fading shard]

it has nothing to do with being a pale being or not

it has to do with her dad being a higher being

[heavy tusk]

higher being mb

i meant that

[fading shard]

her dad also being a wyrm and a pale being is just the icing on the cake

[remote flax]

so being a half higher bieng is just a title

[fading shard]

No

???????

When did we say that

Where are you getting these ideas from

[heavy tusk]

she has big silk powers

[fading shard]

The weavers are pharlids that were ascended

hornet is a child of an actual higher being

[heavy tusk]

why did some pharlids become weavers and some stayed

[fading shard]

because the cutscene shows that it has to be a physical actio by grand mother silk?

to evolve them and such

[heavy tusk]

but why didnt gms make all pharlids weavers

[remote flax]

i think pale beings have power to absorb soul from other bugs this would explain how hornet gets silk from non haunted bugs

[cursive sinew]

Who knows! Doesnt matter

[heavy tusk]

k

[remote flax]

like shakra

[cursive sinew]

It makes no difference here really

[fading shard]

has nothing to do with being a pale being

[fading shard]

besides shakra has silk within her

[cursive sinew]

The cutscene just shows her evolving a specific Pharlid so I assume she just chose them at random or theres some factor we dont know of

[fading shard]

she just did it to those she saw

[remote flax]

no she doesn't she is from outside of pharloom

[heavy tusk]

unrelated but why didnt everbloom break when hornet took damage

[cursive sinew]

Maybe the Cradle was a Pharlid nest of sorts and she got several there

[heavy tusk]

bc its delicate flower right?

[fading shard]

She's NOt outside of pharloom

she is at the outskirts of pharloom

the same way garmond is

outside of pharloom grand mother silks haunting doesn't even reach

[heavy tusk]

like surface

and void

[edgy barn]

tbf what they are saying IS true. Hornet can get silk from the surface bugs which are explicitly free of silk.

[fading shard]

well true

but that's anothe thing I was getting at

regarding soul and silk being tied

[cursive sinew]

Completely unrelated but you just made me think what if they let us see her tribe as a DLC

[remote flax]

and if shakra has silk within her why can't she be controlled then?

[fading shard]

She can??????

[heavy tusk]

is elder hu from shakras tribe?

[remote flax]

when?

[fading shard]

She just got lucky

[edgy barn]

We don't know what the conditions to get haunted are

[edgy barn]

Or if it's just luck

[fading shard]

it's just luck man

we see bugs live gt haunted

and bugs that don't

[cursive sinew]

I think its the same case as Radiance's infection. They are too busy with their own things that they cannot be controlled so easily

[fading shard]

by being lucky

[cursive sinew]

Or maybe it is just luck yeay

[fading shard]

the radiances infection is not simillar to it at all

gms is literal silk that's placed in them

[edgy barn]

That's not how the infection works. Myla was busy mining and singing and she still got infected.

[fading shard]

I mean to be fair the infection has various forms

[heavy tusk]

but only after the infection got worse

[fading shard]

the infectious air, physical infection creatures that can jump around like parasites like we see with broken vessel

and the dreams....Also the dreams

[edgy barn]

Not really. Myla's infection progress is not tied to the crossroads infection.

[heavy tusk]

oh mb

[cursive sinew]

Have I been misinterpreting HK lore this entire time? I thought the reasons for why people like Lemm, Cornifer, Salubra, Emilitia (or whatever), etc. dont get infected is because theyre occupied with their tasks and obsessions so much that they dont get to dream of the Radiance

As for Elder Bug I have no clue.

[heavy tusk]

elderbug has too much aura to get infected

[cursive sinew]

True

[fading shard]

no it's not

Besides even a strong will can get infected

[edgy barn]

Bugs like the city guards got infected too.

[fading shard]

just because a strong will can make being infected by dream harder

[fading shard]

And I'd say the knights and guards have pretty strong wills

wouldn't you agree Zza

[edgy barn]

Stronger than average yeah

Probably not Mantis level though.

[cursive sinew]

Zza why have you been playing deltarune for 13 hours you good?

[edgy barn]

what

wtf

[remote flax]

lol

[edgy barn]

I must have left the game running when I went to sleep

[cursive sinew]

Lol insane

[fading shard]

anyhow the point I was making Legend is that anybody can be infected by the radiance

even the hunter states as much

[cursive sinew]

mmm fair enough

[fading shard]

and besides grandmother silks haunting is nothing to the infection the radiance has

the radiances infection is a plague in dreams, the air and physical little parasites

nowhere is safe in all honestly

[remote flax]

is it really? as from wha we have seen the haunting is whenn she is asleep

[remote flax]

atleast inside pharloom

[fading shard]

What

[remote flax]

hallownest not pharlpom

[fair void]

For the general outline think of it this way:

Hollow knight is the british
Silksong is europe

[remote flax]

what we have is not even close to her full strenght

[fading shard]

how?

[fair void]

british as in the kingdom gets forcefully taken over and established new rule, and

[fading shard]

that would be silksong

Hallownest doesn't have happening at all

[fair void]

the catholic church since subjects are under a faith, that makes up their entire basis of life

[fading shard]

....."the skarr tribe "verdania" "bile water"

[fading shard]

you gonna ignore how all those places

got subjugated and destroyed by grand mother silk

[fair void]

and the radiance is like a rebellion against the british

[fading shard]

which was said by the snail sshamans themselves

[fading shard]

The radiance is the british

[fair void]

pale king is the british

[fading shard]

no tf he isn't

he didn't invade anybody

do you know the lore at all???

he made his own kingdom outside of all the other tribes

and left the tribes be

[fair void]

pale king took over and made the radiance have little power

[fading shard]

there were tribes before the pale king showed up

not a concrete kingdom

And all the tribes were left alone

[next solar]

In lore, Weavers make their own clothes. That’s why First sinner can materialize a dress immediately at the start of the fight. And that’s why Widow is naked, her silk was “bound”

So I think the reason why Slab Hornet is naked and doesn’t just materialize another Dress is that she was in those Cage Runes. We know that Runes diminish her powers. So I’m guessing that’s why she doesn’t make a dress in the Slab.

[fair void]

the analogy isn’t going to be an exact match

[fading shard]

the mantis tribe made a deal with the pale king
the mush rooms were just chill with him and accepted him
the hive wanted to be left alone and was left alone by the pk
the mosskin and pale king were okay on the most part other then the queen at a unknown time just yoinking the quens gardens
and the moth tribe willingly joined the pale king

Does that sound like taking over land?

Cause that sure doesn't to me

and as somebody that's dad is Indian I'm kinda upset that you even compared the pale king to Britain

[remote flax]

i think its because her cloak didn't have the ability float she wanted her og cloak back and she didn't want to waste her silk on making a new one which she will get rid of anyway

[fading shard]

Because there is a massive MASSIVE stark difference between the Pale king and Britain

[fair void]

sorry i didn’t realize how much of a difference there was

[next solar]

That’s possible

[fair void]

at first i thought the pale king established himself and took over what was already there

[fading shard]

he established his land on parts of hallownest that weren't already claimed

and the rest was given by the moth tribe that WILLINGLY out of their own volition decided to join him

and besides the pale king respected the moth tribes land so much

[fair void]

alright that makes more sense

[fading shard]

that he left all of their cultural and historal buildings and stuff unntouched

The literal radiance statue that the moth tribe built was left alone by him

and same goes or all the weird totems and stuff they have around

[charred nimbus]

Guys, are we sure the Verdanians are mantises? i always tought they were this bug

[charred nimbus]

we call this Esperanças here, they're very agile and their jump is really annoying as i'm always afraid of coming close to then and one jumping into my face

Maybe not very sensable with the claws part

[edgy barn]

tbf hk doesn't always follow real biology. for example first game mantises lost the ability to fly as part of growing up, which no irl insect does.

[simple hedge]

This is a decent argument. We have already seen mantises, tho they likely developed separately and could look different, but the problem is the claws

Grasshoppers don't have the claws to make it work

[onyx pawn]

Hello people! Why are there both SYLPHsong and oil from an SYLPHean slug? Any guesses?

[charred nimbus]

I have no idea, but my friend said that sylphs are wind spirits that needs to bound with another being to manifest

[onyx pawn]

Another question: you know the last spell, pale nails? Notice the second word: Nails. Traditional weapon of hallownest. Maybe.. It isn't so traditional?

[charred nimbus]

I think in this case it's nails because they problaby are like, methaphorical but in some way literal nails from GMS

Since you get then from binding her arm

And she uses it as a extension of her attack

[onyx pawn]

XD that's reall

[charred nimbus]

Yeah, that's my problem with it, but it's like @edgy barn said, hk doesn't follow all real life bug biology

[fading shard]

ant queens do

Well they lose their wings eventally

[charred nimbus]

I'm not gonna lie, I LOVE MANTISES, and i LOVE THE GREEN PRINCES AND VERDANIA, so like, i'm really steping out of my bias here

I wish they were mantises

But i just don't feel like they are....

[fading shard]

Wish how drastically different the mantises and verdania bugs are

I'd say it is safe to say they aren't the same species

[simple hedge]

Yeah I don't know. They may simply just be a creation from TC's minds

With some small inspiration taken from mantises

[charred nimbus]

I know it's a completely diffent game, but the Verdanians just gap the Hollow knight mantises, even the intentionally infected mantises from the first game can't match the power of the Verdanians

Bros literally teleport....

[fading shard]

they are just super fast

[charred nimbus]

yeah, i know, that was mostly a joke about then really being supersonic haha

That actually inclines me more to believe they are those green grasshoppers tho

[fading shard]

they still get their asses folded by hallownests army

[charred nimbus]

Green grasshoppers also can teleport in real life

By how fast they are

I know the claws are a problem tho

[charred nimbus]

WIch army are we talking about? like the kingsmoulds or the sentries of city of tears as example?

Or you mean the pale king's knights?

[fading shard]

If I was talking about the five great knights I'd call them as such

[fading shard]

The sentries

I was talking about the sentries

[charred nimbus]

Oh, well...

Idk about that, i feel like a baby verdanian would smash the big sentry....

[fading shard]

Bro

what

[charred nimbus]

What?

[fading shard]

have you seen the kid verdanians

they do not have that speed advantage

they are quite slow in fact

[charred nimbus]

yeah, i saw many speedrunners dying to then as they teleport across the room just as the older ones

😭

I feel like comparing the big sentry speed with a baby verdanian is over kill tbh

[wintry flame]

red coral gorge dlc with crown of thorns starfish boss

[wintry flame]

kind of sad this went unexplored

if team cherry branched into sea invertebrates they'd have some crazy designs they could pull from

[fading shard]

kindanir is a verdania child

they are extremely slow

[charred nimbus]

if they don't introduce thalassophobia alongside of it i would be chill

[wintry flame]

wym

[charred nimbus]

i'm trying to find a small video clip of the mini hell room

I swear those guys are not slow 😭

[fading shard]

You calling them not slow?

[charred nimbus]

yeah....

[fading shard]

What the hell ar thy doing

They are just gonna get stabbed

and killed

honestly you are overestimating the verdanians

they got obliterated physically and were a defencive tribe

[wintry flame]

i'm just saying the citadel had to do large scale chemical warfare on verdania to crush them

[fading shard]

the hallownest army went to actual wars and won

[fading shard]

I think you're not giving them enough credit

[charred nimbus]

I'm not overstimating the verdanians, i just don't think the city of tears sentries can defeat then lol

[fading shard]

Listen if the hunter calls the great sentinels a threat

[wintry flame]

i am talking about pharloom

[fading shard]

then they are a threat

[fading shard]

I'm talking to E502

[wintry flame]

i hate ss lore

[fading shard]

What accomplishments did the verdanians have?

[wintry flame]

wait why the fuck is it sk and not ss lmfao

[fading shard]

Dying?

the hallownest army in it's prime went out went to numerous battles and wars and WON

[wintry flame]

it's been 7 years this should have been a problem before

[fading shard]

And we fight bloody husks of the hallownests army

not to mention unlike the little verdanians the great sentinels can damage the knight with two masks of damage

which I might add is a impressive feat

yet the simple regular verdanians can't even do 2 to a weakened hornet that gets damaged by a light breez

[charred nimbus]

Good points

now let me ask you