sk-lore

[scenic shuttle]

Most likely explanation

[limpid summit]

I mean Groal isn’t haunted SM’s research came from a place of ignorance and he did get a lot of magic from Rad but he was a scholar

[elder rune]

Huge Bees must’ve been the best cuddle buddies.

[limpid summit]

They’re called scholars

[edgy nebula]

groal is haunted

[vestal swan]

4queens, mosskin are fluffy

[limpid summit]

I thought the Stilkin weren’t haunted

[vestal swan]

I'm pretty sure they aren't

They are organizing against the citadel

[limpid summit]

Might be wrong

[scenic shuttle]

They give off silk

[limpid summit]

So do craws

[edgy nebula]

i think they are? They give off silk yeah

[limpid summit]

The bugs atop nameless town give silk

[vestal swan]

Pretty much everything gives off silk except for Lifeblood which is on purpose

[dire lynx]

she was infected, probably dead :[

[limpid summit]

It’s just Hornet taking the soul of bugs in that case

[scenic shuttle]

They are haunted I am pretty sure just maybe not crawfather

[edgy nebula]

i know non-silk possessed bosses dont give off silk and im pretty sure groal gave off silk

[limpid summit]

Huh?

[scenic shuttle]

No the last weaver wasn’t infected actually they are clearly sentient as they just run away when they see the knight

[limpid summit]

Gurr gives off silk

[vestal swan]

Craws are still organizing their own town and laws they aren't haunted either

[covert tusk]

I mean they also live directly under/near the citadel and are actively exposed to their wastes so I assume silk threads would be included

[limpid summit]

Shakra gives off silk too

[edgy nebula]

let me do a check real quick, gimme a minute

[elder rune]

All non-Void enemies give out silk, since I’m pretty sure Hornet or her needle is able to convert soul into silk or smth

[vestal swan]

Silk isn't consistent like orange blood in HK smh

[molten python]

I don't think Silk is a sign of the Haunting.

[covert tusk]

I’m surprised the craws are so unaffected by the Citadel dude how did THEY get off vs like, everyone else 😭

[proud harness]

REALLY?? THAT TOO?

[scenic shuttle]

Voided enemies give doll too

[dire lynx]

oops, i was thinking of the removed sprite from hunters journal

[molten python]

Yes.

[molten python]

Voided normal enemies, not creatures like void masses.

[proud harness]

Except for those things that latch onto Hornet

[scenic shuttle]

You cannot kill those

[elder rune]

Yeah, but I specifically the meant the Pure void enemies, like the masses or shades.

[molten python]

What? You need to kill void masses for the Dark Hearts wish.

[vestal swan]

Only pure void and lifeblood don't give soul/silk this is consistent across both games

[scenic shuttle]

Void masses I thought you meant the tendrils sorry

[edgy nebula]

just checked, groal gives off silk when hit, shakra does not

85% sure groal is haunted

[elder rune]

The point is that I’m pretty sure Silk is like solidified/converted soul that the Weavers can generate and use.

[limpid summit]

Shakra does

[vestal swan]

There's a lot of examples of non-haunted things in the game but you can still get silk from them, it's just inconsistent, gameplay logic overide

[edgy nebula]

she does not, im watching footage rn

[molten python]

Shakra does.

[limpid summit]

https://youtu.be/L0kZl7AyHnE?si=r0U3Js6fM8wWpWYK

[edgy nebula]

im not seeing any silk here brodawg

[scenic shuttle]

I think they mean the stuff for healing

[proud harness]

Sounds like something that would explain Silk can be so versitle

[covert tusk]

Wait so generally what groups/enemies aren’t haunted? I know the craw aren’t now and the stilkin probably aren’t, same for Gurr, anyone else?

[limpid summit]

Look at her spool?

[edgy nebula]

i mean silk effects when hit

[limpid summit]

The burning bugs are not

[scenic shuttle]

But they don’t give it off when hit like haunted enemies yes

[edgy nebula]

as in silk strands falling off

[dire lynx]

when defeated there are no silk strands that snap from him

same for hits

[scenic shuttle]

Cool

[elder rune]

Yeah, and if Only Hornet could generate silk or harvest it from Haunted foes, then the memory bosses would be……… well, I’ll just say we’d see Far more complaints about Lost Verdania & the Coral Tower if Hornet didn’t have the ability to heal lol.

[scenic shuttle]

So groal not haunted

[covert tusk]

DUDE ACTUALLY WHATS UP WITH THE FATHER OF FLAME WHYS IT JUST ABOVE BELLHART
I KNOW THEY KICKED YARNABY OUT BUT DID THEY ALSO KICK THAT GIANT DEAD TREE OUT TOO 😭

[molten python]

Silk is made from Soul.
"Fine thread spun from the soul of its creator."

[vestal swan]

Craw, frogs, fire guys, any of the memories bugs, any NPC you spar with

[scenic shuttle]

Why does father of the flame exist tho

[limpid summit]

Who the hell knows

[dire lynx]

its a funeral pyre

[vestal swan]

It's very likely they were using fire to burn threads

[covert tusk]

Frogs?

[edgy nebula]

seems like silk to me

[scenic shuttle]

But why is it violent

[limpid summit]

Stilkin

[vestal swan]

They were worshiping it as a God trying to make it stronger

[molten python]

The Stilkins in Bilewater.

[limpid summit]

Groal is froglike

[proud harness]

Bbq gone wrong

[vestal swan]

I said that

[scenic shuttle]

Sentient bbq

[elder rune]

Oh my bad lol

[scenic shuttle]

Wait why does no-one else burn the threads with fire??

[vestal swan]

The fire guys, shamans and frogs shoulda teamed up they coulda solved this haunting tbh

[vestal swan]

Nobody else is a pyromancer

[elder rune]

Pretty sure it has to be supernatural fire or smth since I doubt the Wisps are in anyway natural.

[edgy nebula]

just throw muckwater at gms and she slowly dies

[scenic shuttle]

Probably true but how did they make them

[scenic shuttle]

Perfect Strat 10/10

[vestal swan]

Seems like sacrifices someoned them

[molten python]

How do you even know Silk threads can be burned with fire?

[vestal swan]

In the center of the giant bonfire was a bug that wanted to be burned, and they were worshiping the fire not the dead bug so they were probably sacrificing themselves to someone and control the fire sprites

[elder rune]

Higher Beings are just weird like that lol. Maybe the silk threads can be burned with regular fire, but the issue is that there is a Lot of silk throughout Pharloom.

[edgy nebula]

i feel like burning bugs worshipped the wisps, creating fotf to either appease a god or ascend to godhood

[molten python]

I don't think they can be burned.

[scenic shuttle]

Like gorb

[edgy nebula]

of course theres the theory of grimm being involvedddd but thats lame as shit also the wisps arent pink

[elder rune]

I AM GORB!!! 🗣️🔥🔥🔥

[molten python]

Flintflame flyers don't become unhaunted when the bomb explodes near them.

[vestal swan]

The entry says they were worshiping fotf as a God, so they were probably trying to make it stronger

[edgy nebula]

i think thats a stagger effect, no?

[elder rune]

Flintflame Flyers are genuinely the funniest enemies in any game I’ve played

Bros just casually yeeting miniaturized nukes at whoever displeases them with zero regard or consequences to themselves

[dire lynx]

thats death

[molten python]

Void Flintflame flyer gauntlet was harder than High Halls.

[vestal swan]

Why would you do that to yourself

I'm so glad I did everything before act 3

[elder rune]

Path of Pain but skrongified

[molten python]

I forgot to get one of the fleas in Deep Docks lol.

[covert tusk]

Dude imagine the world where they were unhaunted and unionized against Silk, fuck you do when 3 billion miniature bombs are thrown directly at you while you’re in a coma 😭

[scenic shuttle]

Gms vs fire

Just hornet with a fucking lighter next to her cocoon 😭

[elder rune]

I imagine the Deep Docks are far nicer & sophisticated than most other places outside the Citadel Because of the potential of them unionizing.

[vestal swan]

They are not going to unionize, they are religiously dedicated to their task

[edgy nebula]

thats just the part before the silk strands show up, heres gurr and groal's death effects

[elder rune]

I’m a Deep Docks glazer due to Forge Daughter making me a cool gun.

[vestal swan]

She doesn't even make the cool gun

There's a better option

[molten python]

You make the cool gun yourself.

[edgy nebula]

anyway this topic is a bit bland now uuh

[molten python]

The Weaver gun.

[scenic shuttle]

Mount Fay gun is best gun

[molten python]

The original Silkshot.

[vestal swan]

I wish I knew about the mount Fay gun

[elder rune]

I like Forge Daughter gun due to high ammo and it being having the best DPS ratio.

[edgy nebula]

i wish we kept snare setter and got an extra weaver tool so you could have a weaver build

[scenic shuttle]

Someone make an image of hornet next to gms cocoon with a pimplier

[elder rune]

Besides it’s better than the 12th Architect’s

[covert tusk]

Honestly I think that’s why Signis and Gron exist in universe, as the middle managers so the Citadel can just give them the cruel orders, they filter it slightly, and if the deep dock workers have complaints, it’s the Forebrothers fault not ours
Maybe not exactly like that but I do think that Signis and Gron are some form of class traitors, reaping benefits from the citadel while not actually being choir members or getting that much better than your average magma shoveler

[elder rune]

Yeah, that’s what I thought too.

[scenic shuttle]

Makes sense

[elder rune]

Ironically enough, pretty sure Signis & Gron are less tyrannical than the Citadel, ‘cus I haven’t seen them throw prisoners into the fly warden torture jail or Whiteward

Edit: Oh, don’t forget providing decent equipment unlike with the Underworks!

[scenic shuttle]

I want to see the steel city it sounds so fire

Or see hallownest again I want to see how it is doing now you know

[covert tusk]

Well they do have access to just throwing them in the lava they work around so that’s something 😭
Or just, docking their pay and making em look unfaithful and outcasted. Prolly still better than an underworker tho LMAO

[scenic shuttle]

Yall think elderbug is still just standing next to that god damn bench

[molten python]

The Slab is not punishment.

[covert tusk]

Oh yeah have we seen any other bug like Loam cuz going through his dialogue, I don’t think he’s experienced a life outside of running on that treadmill or the underworks. The way he speaks makes it sound like this is ALL he knows, and that he was taken young to do this. Could be wrong I’ll need to double check but Loam is like, a very different delusional than your average pilgrim

[molten python]

It is a holy place of forgiveness.

[elder rune]

It’s like comparing the grimdarkness of Warhammer Fantasy and 40k. Both are terrifying & dangerous settings to live in but the sci fi setting is the infinitely more terrifying & dangerous setting of the two.

[molten python]

It is by the grace of the great Citadel that you can stay in the Slab and hide from the shame of your sins till they are withered away by time.

[covert tusk]

Pack it up bro we know it’s you 😭💔

[scenic shuttle]

Wild

If sherma is the zote of this game then does that mean SHERMABOAT?

[molten python]

Sherma is not a Zote.

[covert tusk]

Then there’s Greymour and the mill workers and the threat of Moorwing if they step out of line which is a whole separate can of worms 💔

[scenic shuttle]

You help them throughout the entirety of the story

[limpid summit]

Sherma is the Zote Seth is the Quirrel

[molten python]

Even Grindle is saved multiple times.

[lusty mica]

Someone please explain me the lore about verdania

[scenic shuttle]

Okay? Sherma is a main character of the game you can go the entire game without ever seeing grindle

[covert tusk]

Zote’s comic relief and a rival character
Sherma is almost a secondary protagonist given he’s instrumental to our rescue in act 3

[scenic shuttle]

I can’t wait for sinless Sherma dream boss

[elder rune]

Yeah, and yet death via vicious flying mite is somehow Still preferable to being in the Underworks or Whiteward

[molten python]

Verdania was once a lush kingdom of green neighboring Pharloom, ruled by the Green Prince and his lover. When Pharloom's ruler threatened Verdania, the Green Prince's lover offered his own body as the mold from which the Cogwork Dancers were made, in exchange for Verdania's safety. However, this deal would not be upheld, as Verdania has been reduced to a tiny desolate corridor, and the last remaining specimens of its environment in Memorium left to rot when compromised.

[scenic shuttle]

Sinless Sherma sounds like a peak boss name tho

[covert tusk]

Or being the child soldiers that are the judges and slab guards because they’re just as much prisoners as they are the wardens, bred to be such, and potentially even fed to the Broodmother herself (either that or the prisoners)

Or the even more terrifying job of being those little guys in the whispering vaults who were literally born to just fact check, the horror

[molten python]

The boss fight is a rhythm game.

[scenic shuttle]

It would be so peak he just goes FA RE DO LA SI MA NET

and you take 4 masks of damage if you can’t dodge him or some average silksong bs

[elder rune]

DDR Hollow Knight mix

[scenic shuttle]

That would be awesome

[molten python]

You attack with Needolin.

[scenic shuttle]

Yes

It would be so peak and it would be like in some cool dream arena

[covert tusk]

It just hit me Sherma has a fucking AWFUL task ahead of him bro😭
Wdym you’re now in charge of THE institution of Pharloom, and now you gotta not only repair the entire kingdom, but fix all the pre existing issues that existed before you had to claim responsibility over them

[barren beacon]

He'd win

[covert tusk]

Sherma what are you gonna do about the Underworks, Whiteward, Judges, Slab, Etc etc 😭

[scenic shuttle]

What when did it say he would be in charge of all of pharloom??

[edgy nebula]

so has anyone else found that one spot in the room leading up to the pontiff where you can needolin this corpse and it says shit like "i want the noise to stop" or is it just me

[covert tusk]

He’s the only person left in power in the Citadel as caretaker of the first shrine
Do you see anyone else alive in the citadel who’d be willing to take charge?

[scenic shuttle]

The voices ah quote

[scenic shuttle]

Second sentinel is still alive the pinstress is still alive and near the citadel

Oh also did you all know Garamond doesn’t have to die I found a way to have him alive in act three

[covert tusk]

Second Sentinel had to pause for a moment and just THINKING about the citadel falling

In act 2 💀
Oh and the pinstress is chilling on mount fay why would she WANT to be in charge?

[molten python]

This is why you don't kill the Green Prince.

[scenic shuttle]

So true

[unreal nimbus]

whatre we talking abt

[covert tusk]

The citadel took everything from him he is not touching that thing with a 50 foot pole unless it’s to get his lover’s body back

[scenic shuttle]

He’s the only leader unless you don’t kill karmalota

[covert tusk]

Sherma being in charge after the game

[unreal nimbus]

oh ok

[elder rune]

Honestly I kinda think the problem will solve itself. I’m being genuinely serious with this BTW, since the Unravelled is dead, the Underwork’s inhabitants are likely allowed to rest in peace without the threads puppeteering their half/fully-dead bodies, the Slab’s Broodling likely won’t have the baggage (Or as much baggage) of having to atone for some unmentioned sin & be slightly more chill. As for Judges, I think Sherma may have authority over them due to his Citadel Caretaker cred.

[molten python]

The Citadel has fallen already.

[scenic shuttle]

The citadel is pretty fucking cooked yeah

[edgy nebula]

found the room

"...This ceaseless sound...
...Remember... Silence...
...Remember... Peace...
...No more..."

[covert tusk]

True true and true but for the judges, they’re bred guards loyal to the citadel. What do you do with a populous who were raised and trained for one thing they can’t do anymore? What’s a soldier with no war?

[scenic shuttle]

Sherma makes his own choir

[molten python]

That's just a problem for now. It doesn't really matter for the next generations.

[elder rune]

Yeah that’s true lol. Maybe Sherma could maybe get help from the Vaultkeeper dude, the Second Sentinel, and Trobbio (IDK of what help he’ll be) if Hornet & Lace vouch for him?

[covert tusk]

Well there has to be something in charge of Pharloom ESPECIALLY after the entire kingdom got fucked up post act 3

[scenic shuttle]

And also uhhh Robbin!

[silk dirge]

i mean everyone in the slab was haunted except broodling

[scenic shuttle]

Trobbio****

[unreal nimbus]

trobbiooooooo!

[scenic shuttle]

trobbio might be able to help tbh

[silk dirge]

basically there are very few places in pharloom that would now be unsafe

for example bilewater would probably still be an issue

the stilkin probably still hate everyone

[molten python]

I don't think Pharloom will be one massive united kingdom. Probably different areas will be ruled by different people. Like the Skarr tribes, Stilkins, Craws, etc.

[scenic shuttle]

And if the ants aren’t haunted anymore they could be reunited

[covert tusk]

Oh yeah Sherma’s gotta de-pollute Bilewater

Good luck bro 😭

[scenic shuttle]

Bile water is just fucked

[edgy nebula]

doesnt every haunted thing die? especially after the void infested pharloom

[silk dirge]

the question is if the haunting takes them all down

[scenic shuttle]

True

[molten python]

Not every Haunted creature was infected by the void.

[silk dirge]

bc id assume like infection once you are haunted you are dead after its gone

[elder rune]

Nah the Flea Caravan transforms the Putrefied Ducts into the Purified Ducts, which ends up slowly cleaning the lower areas of their pollution.

[unreal nimbus]

especially with groal gone

[silk dirge]

i sense some bias here

[scenic shuttle]

It’s just gonna collapse into more chaos

[molten python]

Did the residents of Haunted Bellhart all die after Widow was defeated?

[unreal nimbus]

nah

[silk dirge]

they were in a weird situation

[covert tusk]

Sherma being held back by Lace as the Deep Docks workers get new jobs as demolotionusts and tear down the Citadel

[silk dirge]

bc they werent attacking hornet

[edgy nebula]

most of them did die

i guess pavo, frey, etc wee lucky

[scenic shuttle]

Lace also could run the kingdom

She’s the rightful heir

[edgy nebula]

she is a child, very unfit to rule

[covert tusk]

Frey specifically was in hiding in her shop so she was never haunted at all

[elder rune]

I don’t think she has any skills in governance

[scenic shuttle]

Do you see anyone else with governing skills?!

[covert tusk]

Not a child but still unfit to rule

[elder rune]

Or anything resembling people skills for that matter

[unreal nimbus]

from what i can tell just Pavo and the pondcatcher, all the other residents are either lost or safe in a house

[covert tusk]

Sherma since he was doing pretty good as the new caretaker

[elder rune]

Vaultkeeper MF’er Cardinius probably helped out a bit in the government even if he’s an utter arse.

[silk dirge]

anyways i think the only skarr still alive after the events of silksong would be the dude who upgrades your boomerang

[scenic shuttle]

He could really help you know with all the fucking history

[silk dirge]

thats actually kinda wild

[covert tusk]

Cardinius comes when the government is already formed so he can just start hoarding knowledge all over again 😭

[elder rune]

Exactly, let’s positive thinking!

[scenic shuttle]

Yes definitely him new karmalita

The random ass any in act 3

[silk dirge]

if i was sherma tho i would go on a mass red coral fly killing spree

[scenic shuttle]

I would not say unwavering

[silk dirge]

get rid of all of them

driznits, driznargas, conchflies, pokenabbins kill them all

[molten python]

Do they still attack once the Haunting is over?

[elder rune]

I think the Flea Caravan (Alongside Belhart & the Deep Docks) may help out Pharloom’s rebuilding.

[unreal nimbus]

but then theyd be extinct

[scenic shuttle]

True forge daughter could be helpful

[elder rune]

Forge Daughter is the goat

Idfc what anyone else says

[scenic shuttle]

Maybe forge daughter could find a way to reactivate the last architect?

[silk dirge]

thats the point

[molten python]

Don't think so.

[unreal nimbus]

D:

[silk dirge]

i dont want fucking aimbot flies in my kingdom

[scenic shuttle]

She could study the bodies to find out how they work

[unreal nimbus]

but theyre nice now probably

[elder rune]

Nah trust Forge Daughter’s cooking.

[covert tusk]

I don’t think Forge daughter has the skills imo
Not saying she isn’t skilled, but she isn’t a mechanical technical person, she’s more hands on crafty smelty

[silk dirge]

that or make them dumb enough to not be able to do trigonometry anymore

what would be the most fitting fate for a driznit

death or being forced to forget trigonometry

[molten python]

Don't think she has the necessary skills for that. The Architects were created with skills learned from the Weavers.

[unreal nimbus]

i dont think they know trigonometry

[elder rune]

Shoving them into the Memorium and domesticating them into harmless pets with non-detachable, strangely-shaped horns.

[scenic shuttle]

That one living weaver from hallownest getting back to pharloom after all the bs

[unreal nimbus]

so suffering

[scenic shuttle]

“What the fuck happened here”

[scenic shuttle]

Exactly

[elder rune]

Yes. Do to them what the Qu did to humanity in All Tomorrows (Okay, maybe without the Colonials).

[edgy nebula]

im just now realizing bilewater never even had a memorium spot

[molten python]

What if Herrah comes back?

[edgy nebula]

the citadel such asshooles bruh

[scenic shuttle]

Herrah is dead

[silk dirge]

herrah is fucking dead

[scenic shuttle]

That weaver is not

[silk dirge]

maybe that weaver got captured

[molten python]

Is killing Herrah mandatory?

[unreal nimbus]

they were too cowardly to make big explode bugs

[silk dirge]

who knows

[oak thicket]

Me again. I originally thought the void to be just a corrosive substance in which void creatures lived, but the fact that the void creatures had to traverse to get to hornet after the everbloom gave out suggests the existence of some other substance within the void. Any thoughts on this?

[silk dirge]

good point

[elder rune]

Yeah pretty damn mandatory lol

[scenic shuttle]

Fair but remember the red memory

[molten python]

For Godhome endings too?

[silk dirge]

herrah isnt mandatory for etv

[scenic shuttle]

Her face in the memory is blurry

[silk dirge]

but i think likely to team cherry its canon you kill herrah

[covert tusk]

Best case scenario is a lack of centralized government post game, where it’s united generally but people still function in their own separate domains, the Citadel is made more like a public city than it is a private religious escape, and weaponry being easier to distribute now that the concept of a pilgrimage is a faint memory

[silk dirge]

its also not like shes waking up anytime soon

[covert tusk]

Same for fast travel

[molten python]

That's because Hornet could not spend much time with her before she became a Dreamer. Hornet does not remember her face.

[silk dirge]

bell beast would be epic public transit

i like high speed rail

[scenic shuttle]

Hornet can travel to deepnest any time she wanted to in the first game bro

[molten python]

Team Cherry has said that anything that is not explicitly contradicted can be canon, it's up to you.

[silk dirge]

but i will gladly take high speed doggo

[grand star]

it might just be water

[elder rune]

I imagine that Deep Docks is the “sleeping giant” within Pharloom due to its industrial bases and relatively high technology.

[scenic shuttle]

Sentient water

[covert tusk]

The little beast kings growing and becoming a more common species now that the bell eater is gone and they can spread freely

[molten python]

Yeah, but Herrah wears the Dreamer mask.

[elder rune]

The Pilgrim’s camp may also join up with Forge Daughter’s crew.

[scenic shuttle]

It’s not a mask?? It’s her face it’s just called a mask

[unreal nimbus]

no its a mask

all the dreamers wear masks

[scenic shuttle]

Thats what I said but its also their faces as clearly seen in the red memory still

[covert tusk]

Dude the Deep Docks workers would have a field day in the citadel can you imagine the renaissance in industrialization Pharloom would have if they visited the Cogwork core and could actually spread this across Pharloom?
CAN YOU IMAGINE A PHARLOOM WITH HOMELESS FRIENDLY INFRASTRUCTURE???

[scenic shuttle]

We know that if a bug loses their mask they are reborn

[unreal nimbus]

the mask isnt herrahs face

[scenic shuttle]

(Widow and nymm$

[unreal nimbus]

herrah has a face under the dreamer mask

[silk dirge]

i mean hornet reactivated most benches

[scenic shuttle]

How do we know this bro

[molten python]

The memories don't necessarily reflect reality, memories reflect what the person remembers.

[elder rune]

Everyone in Pharloom collectively letting Forge Daughter & Flick the Fixer cook.

[unreal nimbus]

because herrah said so in the red dream (i think i might be remembering wrong)

[limpid summit]

How do we know Herrah has a face?

[scenic shuttle]

They seem pretty damn accurate to me like distant village being the exact same as silksong

[scenic shuttle]

Your going crazy bro

[limpid summit]

Do you mean how do we know Herrah has a face beneath the mask that doesn’t look similar to the mask

Because she wears a veil and a mask she’s got a head underneath

[molten python]

Because the Distant Village didn't disappear. Hornet did not see Herrah's face for long.

[scenic shuttle]

We know she does because of widow and nymm but all bugs wear masks because distant village is outside the pale kings beacon so they wear masks for sentience

That’s what masks are for

[molten python]

Hornet has confirmed after Lost Verdania that memories don't always have to reflect reality.

[scenic shuttle]

Verdandia begins to regrow after that memory

[unreal nimbus]

it does?

[scenic shuttle]

Beta update yes

[limpid summit]

Distant village likely isn’t outside the beacon

[whole marsh]

Personally, the mask Herrah was wearing, shifting a phasing in and out is supposed to convey that Hornet doesn’t remember her mother’s face. All she can recall is the mask. She only spent a small amount of time with her and it was right after she was born.

[silk dirge]

theyre referring to pale stag

[unreal nimbus]

oh

[limpid summit]

No it definitely isn’t the Stag comes without losing his mind

[molten python]

"Myth made real in memory. The creature seemed completely at one with the flora around it. Did it ever truly exist as I have seen it?"

[limpid summit]

And anyway the spiders don’t need the beacon they got their minds before PK came

[scenic shuttle]

The mask maker

Is in deepnest

[limpid summit]

The mask maker in Silksong is in mount fay

[silk dirge]

do we think deepnest didnt like pk bc it was lead by weavers and pk reminded them of gms

[limpid summit]

Far from anyone who’d need a mask

What’s your point

[scenic shuttle]

No they were just hostile

[silk dirge]

i think its definitely plausible

[scenic shuttle]

Masks give bugs sentience without the pale kings beacon

[molten python]

I don't.

[silk dirge]

the weavers would no doubt be cautious about interacting with another pale being

[limpid summit]

Maybe, these weavers would have left before GMS was even sealed so they would have a reason to fear him

[silk dirge]

but a lot of deepnest is just wild beasts

[limpid summit]

But also like the mantises and the hive just didn’t like him

[mint stratus]

A great example of someone needing a mask is styx! Who chooses the identity he wants to wear via the many masks on the wall in his little nest house thing

[unreal nimbus]

then why is there one in silksong in mount fay?

[silk dirge]

like for example failed tramway was attacked by beasts

[molten python]

They left before GMS was sealed? Where does it say that?

[silk dirge]

same with what happened at mantis village

[scenic shuttle]

He’s still making masks just no-one to wear them anymore

[limpid summit]

Mask Maker (HK mask maker especially) speaks mostly in metaphors

[scenic shuttle]

Just like mask maker in hollow knight

[limpid summit]

Literally, masks serve various functions in some cases and don’t mean anything in others

[silk dirge]

the timeline isnt agreed upon some people think they left before gms was sealed some people think they left after passing the burden onto conductors

[scenic shuttle]

Team cherry we love your lore it makes so much sense all the time ❤️

[limpid summit]

The Cindril Weavenest with paths away from Pharloom has a rune harp which describes Weavers fleeing GMS’s silken sight and it seems chronologically to be before she fell asleep

[limpid summit]

I was confused about that but the one about the burden (likely after conductors you’re right) is from murglin

The Cindril one is before

[mint stratus]

Y’know now that I think about it, gms uplifting the first sinner into a weaver in that one cutscene could be what it looked like for the pk to ascend the minds of lesser bugs in his own kingdom (minus the silk strands of course)

[scenic shuttle]

Sorta probably

[limpid summit]

Flee, sisters. Flee until your strength exhausts, so far you may escape at last her silken sight. To start anew, to sustain, free of web and service eternal.

Cindril

Sisters, spiders, the burden is passed. These simple bugs shall bear it full. Never to cease. Never to silence.
We shall die, and wait, and pray, that one may come of silken strength enough to weave us free.

Murglin

[silk dirge]

isnt that one you get from ballador after he dies in act 3

[limpid summit]

Service eternal implies GMS was still awake at that point

Yeah wait I’m tripping there’s no harp in murglin is there

[silk dirge]

no

[limpid summit]

Regardless one is before one is after

[molten python]

Not necessarily. The Weavers tried to trap her in slumber permanently, but all their attempts ended in failure and she eventually woke up.

[covert tusk]

Potential no shit moment, but I think Loam was taken as a child or at least young enough to where he can’t remember a life before, and was groomed to see the Citadel as incredibly holy and worth running forever towards

[silk dirge]

yeah loam doesnt look like a pilgrim

[unreal nimbus]

whos loam again?

[silk dirge]

possibly someone lured down from nameless town

[molten python]

Underworks NPC.

[unreal nimbus]

i dont think i found that one

[covert tusk]

Like Loam speaks about the citadel more naively than a pilgrim who seeks its gifts, Loam speaks of it as just generally good and nice and great, vs someone who has an outside life describing it as holy and being devoted and the costs it takes

Loam doesn’t fully realize the cruelty of his predicament, all he knows is this pain MUST be worth it for the goodness awaiting him

[silk dirge]

i think its likely loam is or was descended from people lured down from nameless town

[molten python]

Why the nameless village?

[unreal nimbus]

oh that one

[limpid summit]

Multiple attempts?

[silk dirge]

weavers lured down people from nameless town

they were the first ones to work in the citadel

[molten python]

"There my mothers built their tools, all traps and bindings. Small things, but tests for larger forms.I still remember their thoughts as they worked, their desperation, and their hunger. Another hopeless attempt to wrest their freedom. All ended in failure, of course."

[limpid summit]

I thought it was pretty clear that she created the weavers and ruled, they put her to sleep and ruled, the conductors took over and ruled, their experiments woke her up

[limpid summit]

Those aren’t literal attempts to put her to sleep, just various ways they rebelled against her rule while she was still around - another was them creating Eva

[molten python]

Yes, but why do you think Loam is from the nameless village specifically? Aren't there also other places?

[silk dirge]

i mean possibly but nameless village is the one place we see in game weavers lured people to work for the citadel from

so its my guess

anyways what if we see the other weaver remaining in hallownest in a dlc

the fact shes still living tells me possibly the weavers intentionally put themselves in the shrines

[molten python]

What do you think Zote's role is in all this?

[unreal nimbus]

hes garmonds dad

i thought we established that about 2 1/2 hours ago

sorry

[lethal burrow]

why does the first shrine ward away the haunting?

[limpid summit]

Zote is a species of bug that explicitly evolved to mimic Wyrms in order to appear more threatening

[torpid basalt]

Bell

[unreal nimbus]

peak lore

[limpid summit]

Is the Gargantgloom not getting stunned by the Needolin a glitch

Even non haunted bugs stop moving to sing for some reason

[unreal nimbus]

gargantgloom?

[limpid summit]

[unreal nimbus]

oh those things

i hate those things

[polar fiber]

where did you get that from

[muted lantern]

maybe the snail shaman has some protective spell around it?

[limpid summit]

Well it’s just like “…” like the creepers

[muted lantern]

or the bell shrine has some protective element

[limpid summit]

Made it up completely

[lethal burrow]

so the Citadel has so many bells because it defends against grandmother silk?

[limpid summit]

Ok wait what I don’t understand these abyss bugs

[muted lantern]

well music keeps her asleep

[torpid basalt]

Belll

[limpid summit]

The Creepers Chargers and Gloomsac don’t respond to the Needolin the Gargant does but it doesn’t stop moving

Why is there one exception

[unreal nimbus]

maybe a glitch

or it sucks so much it doesnt stop

i hate those things

im biased

[limpid summit]

I don’t like them either

[unreal nimbus]

groal hates the abyss confirmed?????

[limpid summit]

Design wise they’re cool but I don’t get them how are they “barely bugs”

The void jusr be doing anything in this game

[unreal nimbus]

theyre like super void infected probably

is the court of craws like the high class of craws and all the other ones suck?

[limpid summit]

The Court of Craws are just the Crawfather ordering the crows to wear black to mourn

The only regular craws before you beat him are void haunted ones

They’re probably the same dudes

[unreal nimbus]

oh

i think its really funny if the craws with metal hats are just better than the other ones

[slow olive]

does crawfather have needolin dialogue

[unreal nimbus]

yes but i dont know what it is

or im assuming yes since like everything does

[slow olive]

Hear me, hear me!
O clattorous chorus!
This spinderous spiderling...
Sinner! I say sinner!
I condemn! I punish!
A calamitous criminal!

goes hard

[unreal nimbus]

i like crawfather

im definitely not biased

[muted lantern]

crawfather was on the verge of destroying the universe tho

[spare lintel]

What is y'all's opinion on lifeblood acting similar to the infection

[stark quest]

I would love to see if that one has a pale being associated with it too like Radiance. There was a whole post about it on the Hollow Knight or Silksong subreddit.

I love the Crawfather fight, but it is not a difficult fight at all lol. I think it’s just his name. I love it.

[dire lynx]

radiance isnt pale

[raven galleon]

It seems to be the opposite since in hollow knight we see a giant void creature that seems tied to lifeblood. It even appears in god home inside the room where you unlock lifeblood in the pantheons, so it's presumably the god of the substance

[raven galleon]

Also this

[spare lintel]

I think it's probably connected to the Lifeblood Creature

[stark quest]

Ah my bad, I haven’t finished the game yet. I don’t know the lore.

[spare lintel]

It also appears where you get Lifeblood Core

[edgy nebula]

Sinner! I say I say

[meager drum]

is the green prince a cricket?

[lethal burrow]

that or a grasshopper

[hidden crater]

Do not sin bro

[meager drum]

im taking him being gay as more proof hes a cricket

but wikipedia did not have information on grasshoppers being straight like they have with crickets

[hidden crater]

"Does anyone in this kingdom like men?"
The humble green prince:

[meager drum]

assuming the crackpot zote theory, maybe greyroot?

oh and huntress I guess?

[gentle cargo]

is lugoli designed after a drain fly? cause he looks like a super obese one

[dull wasp]

I think lugoli is a "she" but idk

[craggy smelt]

they're a they

[dull wasp]

Oh, so maybe just bad translation, cause in spanish they describe them as a she

[craggy smelt]

I don't really get any specific bug from them, but sure, kinda appropriate since they're in such a sewer-like area

also I just realized Lugoli and the Roachservers must be Void (black body, white eyes)
that ones for the 'snail shamans are Void) crowd

[gentle cargo]

well, here where I live there is a massive drain fly problem, and I see them so often when I saw lugoli's servants I immediately thought they are all drain flies

just unusually chunky

[craggy smelt]

the best kind of reasoning, I'm convinced

[past cypress]

Except snail shamans have a confirmed relation to the void. Maybe not fully void but definitely shaped by it in some way

[craggy smelt]

why 'definitely shaped by it?'
as far as I'm convinced, their relationship is that it's a power they can use, like Soul, just rarer

[past cypress]

Because they're related to the void and look like it, I don't think that's a coincidence tbh

[craggy smelt]

related?

[lapis creek]

do you mean that their bodies are black?

[craggy smelt]

Lugoli can become Void-haunted, unlike any other regular boss, they clearly have an affinity with the Void greater than most, they must be Void after all!

[lapis creek]

beastfly too

[latent sparrow]

Yeah I don’t think snail shamans are void

Hornet seemed to know that the caretaker was a shaman but was still shocked when void appeared

[muted lantern]

does the halfway house serve food or just alchohol?

[meager drum]

our snails are wet because water, snail shamans are probably just coated in void

[latent sparrow]

Are the bugs being controlled by the haunting dead

[muted lantern]

only some

its like the infection, it can revive corpses but also afflict living bugs

[latent sparrow]

I see, so do we know if post game they might be freed? Or is that speculation

[silent quiver]

Why do Herra and Widow look different from the other Weavers? First Sinner has 4 legs and 4 small "arms" and most weaver depictions are like her, but Widow has longer arms and Herra has a whole different body shape.

[muted lantern]

many would die, in bellhart most of the cursed there die after being freed, some may survive, but any who were voided in act three are most likely dropping dead when the haunting ends

[latent sparrow]

Yeah I see, I guess it’s safe to assume most of the bugs are lost causes unless they were recently haunted

[muted lantern]

yeah, i imagine a few would be able to survive, but gms probably didn't make her puppets eat or drink.

[slim tree]

As i read more snd more it seems like gms wasnt even that bad to start with and the weavers are just religious assholes

[slim tree]

gms wasnr the one to destroy lost verdania and turn the three kingdoms to ruin, that was all the bum weavers and their citadel

[muted lantern]

the weavers seemed to have pretty good reason to betray her, their texts imply they were deeply afraid of her, her sight was all encompassing and they had to hide in deep depths to confer outside of her gaze, its like living in a panopticon.

[muted lantern]

we don't really know if that happened before or after the weavers left

[slim tree]

I mean i assumed it was before because they bring up that the citadel was the reason of the decay and who made the citadel but the weavers

[muted lantern]

yeah but the weavers did pass on their task to the conductors and then left, this was likely done after that

[slim tree]

wait a minute

question

how did phantom get put into the position to control the exhaust organ

[hidden crater]

Anything for the golden child

[muted lantern]

by personal choice or they were sent there by silk

[hidden crater]

Anything to dump more waste in bilewater

[slim tree]

but why would gms put her there if the citadel was made to seal gms away

[muted lantern]

i don't think phantoms related to the waste in bilewater, i think putrid is the path from which the goop is sent into bilewater

[slim tree]

omg game theory did not just say hornet intentionally sent gms to the void and is a redeeming character feat of her

[muted lantern]

game theory is still a thing?

[slim tree]

yeah

[hidden crater]

What is game theory even about bro

[muted lantern]

i havent watched that in a while

[hidden crater]

What will they say next that the knight rescued hornet because they we're lonely?

[muted lantern]

gt isnt really particularly reliable for game lore unless its a primary focus game of theirs like fnaf and even then

[slim tree]

they said sending gms into the abyss to defeat her was her redeeming herself for not saving hallownest

genuinely birds for brains over here

[hidden crater]

What the FUCK could have hornet possibly done against the infection

[muted lantern]

i mean it was virtious to try and free pharloom from the gods grip without replacing her, but the void part she had no idea about

[slim tree]

first of all that wasnt even her job second of all she thought she was putting gms back to sleep, not taking her to the viid

[latent sparrow]

Did game theory make another bad hk theory oh no LMAO

[slim tree]

yes LMAO

[latent sparrow]

Wait what is the theory even

[muted lantern]

I can't believe hornet is the pale king

[slim tree]

they also said hornet is void (her cocoon)

[latent sparrow]

LMAO

[latent sparrow]

I’m gonna throw up

[slim tree]

Its something about why silksong is so hard

[muted lantern]

wasnt that their old theory? that knight was pk

[slim tree]

yes

[latent sparrow]

WHAT?? They made a theory for their skill issue im so confused

/j

[slim tree]

omg now theyre ssying lacerace is gonna be the next game theres no way

[muted lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/the-voices-voices-in-my-head-voices-cat-gif-23453583

[slim tree]

HER ARC IS COMPLETEEE YOU DUMBFCK

I DONT WANT LACERACE I WANT SOMETHING ENTIRELY NEW

[muted lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/darkest-dungeon-affliction-irrational-gif-11838038135160624284

[slim tree]

still in hollow knight verse

[muted lantern]

zoteboat?

[latent sparrow]

I’m not sure what a sequel would be about in ngl I think we are way too far from that possibility

We still gotta get dlc

[hidden crater]

If only I could find that hornet bind sprite so I can edit her in that part where the hollow knight and the knight beat the absolute shit out of the radiance

[slim tree]

if hornet was void hallownest would have been done for just saying

[latent sparrow]

Truth nuke I think

[hidden crater]

Hornet MIGHT be void

[latent sparrow]

NO SHES NOT

[slim tree]

put radiance in silksng and she dont even stand a chance 🥹 dumb moth is getting sent to hell

[hidden crater]

-# please dont kill me for this joke

[latent sparrow]

I think hornet void is actually the best rage bait LMAO

because it works way too well

[slim tree]

“I have that emptyness none like your own” or whatever that quote is

Wish she was though

[hidden crater]

Hornet is void and lace is a child gotta be the greatest rage baits in this community

[slim tree]

hornet vessel would be so cool

[muted lantern]

i mean those are 2 entirely different debates lol

[latent sparrow]

Was the hollow knight in the final cutscene i keep forgetting

[hidden crater]

Weaver given form and Weaver given focus

[slim tree]

In hollow knight they show up in godmaster ending if that’s what u mean

[hidden crater]

Only in godhome ending

[latent sparrow]

No I meant the true ending of ss with the siblings and knight

[slim tree]

no

[latent sparrow]

like was its shade there

THATS wait actually that makes sense

[muted lantern]

their shade was noticably absent

[latent sparrow]

I guess it might straight up be chilling now LMAO

[slim tree]

if their shade was there then it would confirm ending 3 canon

[hidden crater]

Radiance is dead that mf alive and well now

[slim tree]

i like that endings 3-5 are all just kinda canon

[latent sparrow]

yeah I forgot about that for a second

[slim tree]

Radiance got the act 3 gms treatment

[latent sparrow]

Hollow knight is just aura farming back in hallownest

[hidden crater]

Prob arguing with sly for his prices

[latent sparrow]

I’d kind of love to see more of its character I wonder what it would do

[slim tree]

in my eyes it doesnt matter which ending happens bc with voidheart the knight becomes the shade lord regardless

[latent sparrow]

Yeah it’s intentionally vague

I do like the idea of hk having some kind of redemption story or something

but I doubt we will see that

[slim tree]

godmaster ending is cool as hell but also a really bad ending

[hidden crater]

Game theory gonna look at this and say "yeah grand mother silk is still alive"

[latent sparrow]

We got hype moments and aura

[slim tree]

Grand mother silk actually manifested as the silk here

[slim tree]

this is literally all endings 4 snd 5 are but I love them

[latent sparrow]

4 is so weird like does the void just destroy hallownest what

[hidden crater]

They somehow make theories that GMS is alive even tho she fucking dies in nearly every ending

[slim tree]

I think the shade lord just escapes the abyss and does whatever the hell it wants so yeah lmao

[latent sparrow]

Is gms canonically weakened when we fight her

[slim tree]

Only ending she didnt die in was the scrapped ending lmfao

[latent sparrow]

From like idk snoozing too long

[slim tree]

100% yes lol

[latent sparrow]

good that makes sense

[slim tree]

symphony of pharloom give us absolute gms

[hidden crater]

Yeah she dies in snared silk fr (why is that even an ending)

[slim tree]

remind me which one this is

is that just starting act 3

[latent sparrow]

The first one

[slim tree]

the first one is weaver queen tho?

[latent sparrow]

wait

Me when I lie

[slim tree]

Its weaver queen twisted child then sister of the void

[latent sparrow]

Snared silk is dlc blocky leaked it early

[hidden crater]

Yeah basically that start of act 3 cutscene where she gets dragged to the deepest pit of the void

[latent sparrow]

If the game did just end there it’d be insane LMAO

[slim tree]

lmao thought so

[hidden crater]

Traitor lord is somehow in the games files lmao

[slim tree]

hornet is so taken aback she just leaves and gives up

[slim tree]

????? are u serious

[latent sparrow]

Load bearing Goku

[slim tree]

i know exactly what ur referencing and im so proud

[hidden crater]

Yeah I actually somehow found this in silksongs files (either they forgot to remove it or just left it there to troll us)

[slim tree]

yeah no im not falling for this

[latent sparrow]

Team cherry codes in comic sans it’s one of their signatures

[slim tree]

no way they would leave that in there

[hidden crater]

I swear to god its there

[slim tree]

even though there 100% will be a boss rechallenge dlc

Im looking thru files tomorrow and if its there im dropping 100$ for madoka magica skins

[hidden crater]

Ereerrerereererrreerrerer

[latent sparrow]

LMAO gambling addiction

[slim tree]

oh my god do u know what im referencing

[latent sparrow]

oh no I don’t sorry </3

[slim tree]

ah rip

theres this mobile game called idv and you have to gacha for skins

they’re like 100% doing a madoka collab soon and im so not ready

[latent sparrow]

Never stop gambling

[slim tree]

they also did a frieren collab which i spent a ridiculous amount on

[latent sparrow]

WHAT

[slim tree]

yes lol

[latent sparrow]

is it over

[slim tree]

uhh yeah but they come back annually

[hidden crater]

🥀

[slim tree]

it was like uhh the sien was the free one i forgot his name and then aura fern and stark were 4 stars and frieren was the 5 star and you could just buy himmel for a flat price

[latent sparrow]

Not Sien being the free one

I am intensely aware of the marketing techniques of gacha games but they still work exactly the same so it’s not really useful

[slim tree]

the gameplay is fun tho and you dont get any advantages by paying, its just dead by daylight if the survivors werent copy and paste

bru this is not lore related at all hold on

[latent sparrow]

LMAO we gotta tie it back

[slim tree]

ok quick question was lifeblood seen anywhere else besides the wormways

[latent sparrow]

Gacha games relate thematically to the uh that one confession thing in the underworks

[craggy smelt]

not seen, but Zylotol mentions his master found it on the edge of Pharloom in 'salt-stricken waters'

[latent sparrow]

Because uh you spend money but you don’t know what you’ll get

[slim tree]

yes exactly

[slim tree]

sorry but who is that?

[craggy smelt]

alchemist dork

[latent sparrow]

The scientist dweeb

[slim tree]

crying how did i forget

Bro that guy was actually such an idiot

[latent sparrow]

His poor eyes

[slim tree]

why did he give you his heart what did he think would happen

[latent sparrow]

LMAO yeah idk what his deal was

[hidden crater]

Greatest comment I have found so far

[slim tree]

ou yeah because of chinese censorship all the character’s in game models are dolls, its actually really cute

[latent sparrow]

that is very cute actually

Lore wise why doesn’t hornet kill trobbio I hate that guys guts

[slim tree]

they actually mention this in lore lol instead of the entity in dead by daylight theres just one guy who invites people to his manor and they do the games there and he’s the one who makes the dolls of the characters

[latent sparrow]

or does he die the second time

[hidden crater]

Hes alive

[slim tree]

I dont think so

[craggy smelt]

trobbio lives

[latent sparrow]

That’s so wholesome

[hidden crater]

Wait on his stage after beating him the 2nd time

[latent sparrow]

Terrible news

[craggy smelt]

hornet's clearly a fangirl, waiting for the next production

[latent sparrow]

NO WAY hornet does NOT fw that guy

[hidden crater]

He'll pop out of the stage, take a look, notice you, then hide away like a little bitch

[slim tree]

my cat is snoring right now im crying

[latent sparrow]

Trobbio is so annoying

[hidden crater]

You sure thats a cat bro

[latent sparrow]

I’m doing a speedrun playthrough rn but I can’t decide if I want the red trobbio quill or the purple one

The red matched hornet so well but the purple is like… rarer…

[slim tree]

yes she is just a fat sleeper

[craggy smelt]

if you think about it, purring is basically snoring while awake

[latent sparrow]

What exactly happens in the weaver queen ending is it just hornet becomes a higher being

[craggy smelt]

yeah

[latent sparrow]

Why does she goop her silk everywhere

By accident or is it just her nature after she binds gms

[craggy smelt]

becoming a higher being feels amazing
if you know what I mean

[latent sparrow]

LMAO

[hidden crater]

Silked the song

[latent sparrow]

true…

[craggy smelt]

no, it looks like she instinctively weaves a gigantic cocoon in order to metamorphose into her true form

[slim tree]

lowkey probably higher than a higher being since she’s already bordering the limits of a demigod, binding a pale higher being to her already binded several other beings self probably sent it over the edge

[latent sparrow]

That’s true

Kind of crazy that hornet might be like the strongest character in the series maybe

[hidden crater]

Imagine she comes out and looks identical to HERRAH LMFAO

[latent sparrow]

DAMN don’t take her aura

[craggy smelt]

pale beings of Silk/PK/etc. level are like top-tier higher beings
and Hornet thinks of herself as part of the 'higher/pale caste' already, her potential is just waiting to be fully realized

[slim tree]

shade lord might be stronger but if we’re talking endings act 3 maybe not she might just have the ability to repell void with the everbloom from within

[craggy smelt]

herrah looks amazing in red, I approve

[hidden crater]

I yearn for weaver queen content

[latent sparrow]

Anyway I just wonder if hornet destroyed Pharloom in weaver queen

I mean that seems the be the implication that it wasnt** a good thing but

I don’t think hornet would want to do that

[hidden crater]

Somehow sherma would be completely unharmed

[latent sparrow]

My goat

[slim tree]

Seemingly she destroyed the citadel which would be a net positive imo besides the.. yk.. tourist attraction being eradicated

[latent sparrow]

I was so scared Sherma would die

[craggy smelt]

Hornet was reluctant to take the mantle, worried she'd wind up just another oppressive higher being like Silk
she doesn't seem to think much of her dad either, though he seemed like a much better ruler

[hidden crater]

If sherma and bell beast survive during weaver queen ending I am happy

[latent sparrow]

Maybe true ending is not worth it just let hornet be a god she’s a chiller

[slim tree]

true ending is better long term i think but still weaver wueen is lowkey a good ending

[latent sparrow]

Yeah dramatic ass soundtrack for what

[slim tree]

Who knows maybe hornet needs the break

[craggy smelt]

future game reveals Weaver Queen to be true ending, stars Lace and Weaver Queen Hornet appears to save Lace from dying at the end

[latent sparrow]

It’s fine let a girl level up

[slim tree]

twisted child is obviously a terrible ending LMAO

[craggy smelt]

even better, next game reveals twisted child was true ending

think about that shit

[latent sparrow]

I wonder what the idea behind twisted child happening is LMAO is it just hornet couldn’t find the cure and was like damn fine

[slim tree]

hornet becomes the vessel for a disgustingly powerful higher being to emerge and kill everyone

[craggy smelt]

that's what being pro-life gets you

[latent sparrow]

Woke team cherry ❤️ 🌹

[slim tree]

based

yarnaby is pro abortion

[latent sparrow]

It’s actually so crazy that ss has abortion LMAO peak video game

[hidden crater]

Imagine another grayroot emerges after the twisted child cutscene

[craggy smelt]

true higher being, the Grey Lady

[slim tree]

I dont think greyroot would, she seems like a decendant of whatever the hell this is

[hidden crater]

White lady but malnourished

[craggy smelt]

White lady but Zote

[latent sparrow]

LMAO

everyone in hk verse just has a Zote

[slim tree]

white lady but whatever the nightmare heart is to the radiance

[hidden crater]

What if zote was cursed all along

[slim tree]

Evil root vs nice root

[latent sparrow]

I’m gonna enjoy being able to call true ending true ending before new dlc endings might come out

[craggy smelt]

"Mothers will always betray you."

[hidden crater]

Looks like hes the one who betrayed her

[latent sparrow]

They need to implement Shermas principles

[craggy smelt]

holy shit

I just realized, Sherma is the Anti-Zote

shows up everywhere, survives despite being totally inept

full of compassion for others

[hidden crater]

Every time I see garmond now I'm instantly hit by a wave of dread

[latent sparrow]

his ending is actually so sad

[hidden crater]

Zaza's dialogue dont make it any better

[toxic mulch]

[hidden crater]

He helped me beat pre nerf moorwing THEY CANT KEEP KILLING LOVEABLE CHARACTEEEEERS

[toxic mulch]

But at least sherma lives

[hidden crater]

Sherma living isnt enough I wanted garmond to live as well

[covert night]

this is like germany winning ww2 tbh

[craggy smelt]

kill the true final boss before you fight him, just like how you spare Myla

[slim tree]

i headcanon that the weavers when arriving to hallownest hunted down all the snail shamans knowing how fucking annoying they were from pharloom

[latent sparrow]

Valid crashout

[covert night]

yep there are a lot of antis in this game compared to hollow knight

in hk you descend to hallownest in silksong you ascend to the citadel

[slim tree]

i used to think snail shamans were cool why the fuck did they do that

[hidden crater]

"Hey snail shamans of hallownest were gonna fucking kill you because of what snail shamans did in pharloom even tho they prob have no correlation with you"

[latent sparrow]

For real the one who teaches vengeful spirit is like a normal guy

[slim tree]

You’re forcefully brought to pharloom against your will thst you very much have meanwhile the knight comes to hallownest on its own will that it probably shouldnt have

[slim tree]

eeh he’s pretty deceptive too lol

[hidden crater]

Worst snail shaman of all time

[latent sparrow]

No way… someone would do something like a lie would they…

[tender thorn]

Yeah like mf called hornet a slave like wtf

[latent sparrow]

Because she’s part weaver ig

[slate sequoia]

Same

Particularly the caretaker, I thought he was kinda like elderbug, grumpy but still caring for Sonclave's inhabitants. But no, he just abandon them as soon as there is danger

[slim tree]

can we kill him fucker aint even wearing his shell right

[hidden crater]

So glad he dies

Chapel maid and caretaker didnt deserve to die

[slim tree]

he dies?? Do they all die??

Oh

When does he die

[hidden crater]

yeaaah....

[hidden crater]

When you get everbloom

[slim tree]

Was i just not paying attention wtf

[slate sequoia]

Well they disapear

[craggy smelt]

consumed by the spell

leaving only the shell

🎶

[hidden crater]

You can beat the absolute shit out of the shells and watch a tiny bit of soul come out of the shells tho

[stuck berry]

feeling a little silly

hornet confronts them for their shenanigans they're all

https://tenor.com/view/ehe-anime-gif-anime-girl-teehee-gif-27178660

[tropic valley]

Brain too full with weaver queen ending help me

[stuck berry]

hornet's pale instincts kick in and she usurps GMS

she's now the queen she takes all her silk

[toxic mulch]

Hornet says it's in her nature to want to control and rule

[stuck berry]

it's because she has pale being blood

[toxic mulch]

Yes

She seems able to resist it normally but it takes over when she binds gms

[mint stratus]

Something I’ve noticed is the sickle shape symbol isn’t only used for citadel and pin iconography, but grave markers as well

So it basically functions like a cross as both a holy symbol and a grave mark symbol

[toxic mulch]

Wait,why would they allow graves when they made death illegal and cremate

[mint stratus]

That’s within the citadel

It’s something I noticed in pilgrims grave in shellwood

[toxic mulch]

[stuck berry]

does seth lose his arm

[royal elbow]

I don't think he does. He just dropped his shield I think. I never bothered to check though.

[slow olive]

He seems to have both arms still

The hand of his other arm is just holding the strap of his bag

[vital ruin]

He lost his bush scarf thingy to after the fight

[royal elbow]

Yes. Makes him look very similar to the original sketch without it.

[stuck berry]

okay that's what it was

his arm always seemed too short

[vital ruin]

After the fight he doesnt remember hornet at all too
So i think he also lost his memory

[slow olive]

He did yea

Seth himself says he feels like a newborn the first time u see him in greymoor after the fight

[stuck berry]

me when i get beaten by the needle of memory loss

[royal elbow]

He did lose his memory. It's a beautiful story really.
For his devotion of standing guard for an impossible long time, he's finally rewarded with a life that's his own.

[supple glacier]

Guys i think hornet is racist and shaw is n word in hk world

[slim tree]

god i hated the boss fight but i love seth so much

[slim tree]

Hornet was an insufferable emo in hollow knight and then bloomed into a punk adult in silksong

[stuck berry]

punk... and she can avoid rock based attacks almost like a rock er hmm.....

[slow olive]

I kinda see it, she becomes "kindness is the new punk rock" at the end of act 3 kind of lmao

[stuck berry]

it's practical to end the void threat by saving lace and calming gms but she for sure also saved lace because she wanted to

[stone herald]

to be fair, it was pretty reasonable to be so harsh on the vessels

and Pharloom is less depressing than hallownest

[stone herald]

she cant just let the vessels run free, and killing her siblings off probably takes a huge toll on her mental state, hence all the talk about not feeling bad about killing weaklings

though in the silk and soul questline Hornet definitely distinguishes herself in her capacity for empathy compared to other higher beings possibly

[dense aspen]

Ok I have theory about styx
His masks aren't actully what give him the personality, it's just what he wears and what he means by who he is that he dosen't know where he belongs.
He is the second charater in the game that repeats a slave motif the first being the shaman in bellhart and him.
I think styx is so focused on being a slave because he sees pilgrims being taken advantage of by gms and being controlled by silk and he thinks he needs to be a slave or have master/mistress to be free of sins

That's why he instantly chose hornet when she saved him due to the fact he sees are his saviour from sin

He's kinda like the opposite of the snail shaman from bellhart who thinks everyone is a slave and no one is free
And styx thinks he needs to be a slave to be free

[ebon silo]

Right so we all agreeing that the godseekers are just a bunch of masochists in gray wrappings with a golden mask?

[broken bear]

why do the strands of silk still point up during act 3?

[stuck berry]

they're shooting up out of the ground in vain to a place where gms once found comfort in

[vital ruin]

That's cause of the Snare setter trap teleporting GMS silk in the void

Its a bit of spoiler if you havent seen ending of Act 3 yet

[broken bear]

yea no shouldnt they point down?

because thats where gms is now

[vital ruin]

The silk is coming from her, thats why its shooting up now

[broken bear]

no it always shot up towards gms

like in blasted steps it goes up to the right

and in sinners road it goes up left

[vital ruin]

its new threads i assume

[broken bear]

shouldnt they point down in act 3?

[vital ruin]

Got a screen shot of this?
Bit confusing since the lay out of the map is always show in 2d

[stuck berry]

team cherry got team lazy

[broken bear]

its hard to get a ss of it but its the strands that shoot up when u kill an enemy

in act 1 and 2 i presumed they were going back to gms

[vital ruin]

You talkin about the Silk threads that goes into certain enemy bugs?

[broken bear]

no

im tryna get a screenshot from a video

[vital ruin]

Yeh idk, it would help if you've got a screenshot or a video

[vital ruin]

I mean it does make sense if the silk is controlling them and when the enemy is defeated the connection is cut and goes back to Gms

[broken bear]

yea thats what i thought too

but in act 3 it still goes up towards where gms used to be

[vital ruin]

I'd assume its new threads coming from her, thats why its mixed in with the void now
and the ones pointing down were old threads that cutted away from her since she teleported

[broken bear]

u can see the going back up to gms

[stuck berry]

team lazy...

[broken bear]

real and true

they shouldve worked 20 more months to make it so the threads always went to gms

[stuck berry]

they could've spent another 7 years polishing the game

[vital ruin]

Or its not connected to her

Or Its tethered somewhere like Widows boss room

[broken bear]

it may be tethered to the big cocoon she bursts out of i suppose

[broken bear]

no you cut down those threads

[vital ruin]

Afaik the cocoon was made by the weavers that rebelled, the cocoon was made to put her to sleep

[ebon silo]

really? whered you find this

[broken bear]

yea, but im not sure if the cocoon is still there in the cradle in act 3 i havent been there in a minute

i forgor

[fierce narwhal]

the cocoon is not there in act 3

[broken bear]

ok im not sure what the threads are pointing at then

[fierce narwhal]

i think they're metaphysical threads like to represent the haunting of the bugs

yes they point to their originator but i don't think they're entirely physical in nature

[broken bear]

mh

interesting

[fierce narwhal]

i think we're talking about the threads that appear when killing an enemy

[vital ruin]

“Sisters, spiders, the burden is passed. These simple bugs shall bear it full. Never to cease. Never to silence. We shall die, and wait, and pray, that one may come of silken strength enough to weave us free.”
--this too from a weaver tablet

They passed the burden to ordinary bugs to continue the song to keep gms sleeping

Im guessing melodys you needed to collect in act 2

[fierce narwhal]

this again is echoed in needolin dialogue next to the weavenest karn weaver mummy in wormways

[vital ruin]

Some tiny bits of lore can be read from the journal alone

[ebon silo]

it kinda doenst say the weavers made the cocoon

[vital ruin]

Who else could weave cocoons tho

Other than her children who has hinted tablets

“Flee, sisters. Flee until your strength exhausts, so far you may escape at last her silken sight. To start anew, to sustain, free of web and service eternal.”

Also hinting why they could have done it

And Tbf alot of the tablet lores are cryptic to begin with, for us to uncover ourselves

Why are there still ppl who speculate and still not dig around the lore themselves 😭

[lyric widget]

GMS probably made the cocoon herself, she makes another one in the Abyss, and Hornet calls it "her protective form, that cocoon of thread."

[fierce narwhal]

yeah but that cocoon specifically was made to protect her and lace tho

[lyric widget]

ye which she used because it was "her protective form"

it's only mentioned that the Weavers lulled GMS to sleep, not that they literally trapped her in that cocoon

[fierce narwhal]

true but why would she make a cocoon just to have her not be in control of the kingdom that kinda goes against the whole pale being motto

like unless she felt threatened somehow...?

[edgy barn]

That dialogue is from before Hornet goes to the abyss, meaning it is referring to the cacoon GMS was in before the fight.

[lyric widget]

she was in control still, she could just be in that cocoon. Hornet is also in a similar situation in the Weaver Queen ending

[lyric widget]

no it refers to her in the abyss

[edgy barn]

Yeah, but Hornet hasn't gone there yet.

[fierce narwhal]

i can see that

maybe it had to do with the creation of lace? like after creating her she had to hibernate a bit

[lyric widget]

true, I see your point

[edgy barn]

Hornet knows the cacoon is her protective form before she sees in the abyss, meaning the one in the cradle must also be the same thing.

[fierce narwhal]

and the weavers took that opportunity to lull her into sleep

[edgy barn]

The Silk Heart dialogue more or less implies GMS had already been betrayed and asleep by the time Lace was created.

[fierce narwhal]

yeah ur right

much to think about

[fast surge]

yeah because she made Phantom (later Lace) as replacement daughters in the Weavers' absence

[terse warren]

We don't know that Phantom actually came later

She's grey with age because she's getting old silk from spools rather than fresh stuff from GMS

[fast surge]

Ye

Also no idea how long it's been since the Weavers left

[sinful nimbus]

How does Phantom change her tablet music

[fast surge]

Nor how fast silk beings unravel

[sinful nimbus]

Does she just play the same song over and over

[fast surge]

But I just don't think there'd be any reason to make a Phantom while she still has Weavers

[naive lake]

iguess

Or maybe phantom just puts a large tablet on top of it

with song inscriptions

[slow olive]

Oh wow i didnt notice she wasnt wearing her mask before the fight

[edgy barn]

"After the Weavers' departure from Pharloom, pilgrims would typically travel from the kingdom's base in Bone Bottom to The Marrow, Far Fields, Greymoor, Bellhart, Shellwood, the Blasted Steps, and finally, the Grand Gate at the foot of the Citadel. However, the Judges in the Blasted Steps, including the Last Judge at the Grand Gate, prevented any bugs deemed not worthy (prone to unfaithfulness or sin) from reaching the Citadel's interior. In response to this, the Sinner's Road was grew as a means for these sinners to reach the Citadel without facing the judges, the path being from Greymoor, through the road, into Bilewater, and through the Exhaust Organ, which would eventually leave them at the Grand Bellway. However, in order to stop these bugs, Phantom was deployed to the Exhaust Organ, serving as its guard and ending the viability of the Road as an alternative path to the Citadel" (https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Sinner's_Road)

[edgy barn]

Me when I spread misinformation in the internet:

[elder rune]

Based FR

But I do have to wonder is anyone had successfully used Sinner’s Road as an alternative entrance pre-Hornet?

Probably not unfortunately, given the Mist & the humble Phantom.

[elfin niche]

I would assume so or it wouldnt have been a great road.

Even Phantom probably takes weekends.

[topaz frost]

Maybe the controlled ones tried to go through there before they were taken over

[edgy barn]

The thing is, "Sinner's Road" is never referred to as such in-universe.

Nor is it ever hinted to be, or have been, some sort of road or path.

[elfin niche]

Yes it is - "Sinner's Road" is written on Shakra's map.

[edgy barn]

I never assumed those were diagetic.

[terse warren]

Those are probably just instructions on where to direct waste so, yeah

[elfin niche]

Why wouldn't they be?

But also the quest from the courier twins to deliver the Roach Guts tells you to go to Sinner's Road.

So that's another, checking the text dump.

[terse warren]

How does Shakra know it's called Sinner's Road

[elfin niche]

It came to her in a dream.

[edgy barn]

Are those diagetic? the actual dialogue of the brother's does not mention the name of the area, or Styx's, for that matter.

"We is got requested times a'many for this, a queeny egg of those eaters of Silk. Wish from big, sticky creature, near many roaches caged. Wants it muchly!"
Deliver the Queen's Egg to Styx of Sinner's Road.

[stone herald]

i mean it being named sinners road alone implies was designed as a road for sinners, even if its not diagetic

[cursive sinew]

Quest descriptions do not sound canon to me. Not in most cases

[elfin niche]

Even if they're not diagetic, why call it Sinner's Road if it is not a road used by sinners?

[sinful nimbus]

Sinner's Road is a meat farm its not supposed to be a road for sinner's thats just what we use it for

[elfin niche]

Yeah this basically.

Bilewater is called bilewater because the water is bile. Blasted Steps is called the Blasted Steps because there are steps that are blasted by sand. Hunter's March is called Hunter's March because it is a march (border territory) populated by hunters.

Sinner's Road is called Sinner's Road because it is a road sinners use.

[edgy barn]

I would be inclined to believe that if there were any other hints that it was used as such.

[elfin niche]

It's not called Rainbow Lollyland.

[stone herald]

i mean, the theory that it was an alternate way to get to the citadel makes sense

[sinful nimbus]

We are the sinner

[stone herald]

but yeah its called the sinners road, why would it not be a sinners road if it is called sinners road

[cursive sinew]

My thinking is its not called that in-universe. But is known as a road alternative to Blasted Steps, used by sinners who know they cant pass the Judges. Sinner's Road as a name is just a game thing

[spark valve]

Why are we acting like calling it sinner’s road doesn’t make it being a road the default assumption

It’s also not a road to the citadel

[stone herald]

maybe the real sinners road was the pharloom we walked along the way

[elfin niche]

but why tho

[spark valve]

It’s just a road that doesn’t lead there which only sinners would use because if you aren’t a sinner you’d be on the pilgrimage

[cursive sinew]

Why what

[elfin niche]

Why would we think these places are not actually called what the game calls them?

That just seems to be inventing unnecessary complexity.

"Oh yeah the Sands of Kerak are actually called Daveland."

[edgy barn]

Me when I can't get past the judges so I try to go through the magic labyrinth and the combatitive highly skilled silk being:

[spark valve]

it's not generally an alternative to blasted steps

[cursive sinew]

There isnt a reason to think its called this.

[spark valve]

[elfin niche]

The reason is that the game calls it that...

[spark valve]

"yeah the game calls it that but that doesn't mean it's like called that"

[elfin niche]

We don't know when Phantom moved there or for how long.

[stone herald]

well it has to at least be a sinners road in some way

[elfin niche]

If she was anything like Lace, she presumably had agency.

[stone herald]

even if you consider hornet to be the sinner (whihc i dont agree with) its still a road for sinners. Team cherry wouldnt call it sinners road for no reason

[spark valve]

it is a road away from the citadel anyone on it isn't doing the pilgrimage

[edgy barn]

No character or in-universe text using a certain seems like a good reason to me.

[terse warren]

"Tasked by the Citadel to expel the waste..."

So much agency

[elfin niche]

Doesn't mean that's all she did.

[sinful nimbus]

Can't believe Phantom folded to the Citadel

[elfin niche]

Although I do think Phantom is weirdly underexplored.

[sinful nimbus]

-100 aura

[elfin niche]

We just like, kill Lace's sister and GMS' first daughter

[terse warren]

Add another one to the list

[elfin niche]

with no real examination

[terse warren]

Not the first daughter, not necessarily older than Lace

[edgy barn]

The story was very clearly not written with her existance in mind.

[cursive sinew]

When aside from Shakra's map and the name drop

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet doesn't even acknowledge Phantom when talking to the Caretaker about Lace 🥀

[stone herald]

yeah some throw ins there would be great

[elfin niche]

The mirror scene heavily implies it.

[terse warren]

Does killing Phantom even cause any new dialogue?

[terse warren]

Mirror?

[sinful nimbus]

I don't believe so

[edgy barn]

It doesn't

[terse warren]

That's insane

[vestal swan]

Even if that's not the proper name for the area that's what people are calling it because Hornet isn't TK they're going to ask questions and not make up descriptive names for every area

[stone herald]

though hornet just killing phantom without significant fanfare wouldnt be so out of character, and at that point in te game theres nothing that really forces that connection to happen at the moment. A little dialogue acknowledgement later and it should be fine if TC chooses to add it in

[sinful nimbus]

Crazy how the entire family gets no time to shine

[terse warren]

Important enough to get a Steam Card not enough for any actual lore

Grindle gets more lore than all 3 combined

[sinful nimbus]

What's the Grindle lore

[stone herald]

i didnt pick up much grindle lore yeah

[spark valve]

grindle uh wants to rob you that's it

[sinful nimbus]

I don't think I read my glorious snitchking's dialogue that much

[vestal swan]

Did Grendles tips actually make any sense

[terse warren]

What we see happen in game and the fact that he controls all the Snitchbugs for some reason methinks

[stone herald]

i wish i could kill grindle and take his shop items highkey

i would do it

[vestal swan]

They just seemed like vaguely go explore this area

[silk dirge]

savage beastfly deserves a steam trading card

[terse warren]

Head of Pharloom mafia

[silk dirge]

its lore actually goes crazy

[terse warren]

Who

What tips

[sinful nimbus]

Grendle is Grindle's grandma

[elfin niche]

There's a mirror in the Organ Pipes.

[vestal swan]

My phone keeps auto correcting

[terse warren]

Return of King of Typos

[elfin niche]

If you play the Needolin, you get a Lace/Phantom lore drop memory.

[sinful nimbus]

"lore drop"

[terse warren]

It's not a mirror and it doesn't imply that Phantom is older in the slightest

[vestal swan]

I mean everything else makes sense for phantom to be older though

[stone herald]

also as a side note, one of my few bits of criticism for silksong is that i just did not FW the needle the same way i did with the dreamnail

(i didnt know you could needolin enemies too so thats also on me)

[terse warren]

The one thing that hints at her being older is that she is "grey with age" which most likely is just because the silk she's getting isn't fresh