sk-lore

[open dragon]

Silksong has alot of Mommy Issues going around

[lucid fossil]

didn’t she treat her children well

[ember river]

GMS is definetely bad but that doesn't excuse the Weavers or citadel bugs

[abstract rivet]

she sees them as possesions tho

[open dragon]

Whilst Hollow Knight 1 has alot of Daddy Issues going around lol

[lucid fossil]

like “well” as in the standards set by hollow knight LMAO

[lucid fossil]

she’s just really obsessive I guess

[cedar skiff]

that is true but at the end of the day theyre children whose creators made them for some sort of higher purpose and have that sort of weird attachement to their parental figure

[lucid fossil]

she still cared for them though

[ember river]

Where

[lucid fossil]

and the weavers all rebelled against her for (likely) power

[abstract rivet]

I mean it kinda feels like she does, by the dialogues and egc

[open dragon]

Grandmother Silk is a terrible mom yea lol

[ember river]

I'm not sure if Lace had any true higher purpose other than being obedient but I definetely see where you're coming from

[frosty gate]

Anyone involved in this problematic is some level of guilty, even the Weavers.

[open dragon]

But at least she still cares enough for Lace to help Hornet save her (and Pharloom)

[frosty gate]

Specially the weavers

[abstract rivet]

“bind them all they are ours “forever” dialogue Idk if that refers to the haunting

[lucid fossil]

i like how you said “even the weavers” as if they only did a few bad things and aren’t the evil of silksong

[ember river]

I think Hornet cared more about Pharloom exploding if Lace wasn't saved than about Lace herself

[abstract rivet]

Well, “well” in standards of Hollow Knight means “treat them as slaves but not too much”

[ember river]

"Oh yeah we want to be free, let's set a giant timebomb so we can run away"

[abstract rivet]

yeah good treatment in Hollow Knight is a luxury

[cedar skiff]

yeah its kind of out there, its not the sort of parallel thats really thrown in your face by the game or super significant narratively (although you are meant to compare lace and the vessels, seeing as the narrator hornet outright points that out herself), but the kinda thing that you notice and go "oh neat"

[frosty gate]

To be fair, they did try to kill her, they just couldn't

[abstract rivet]

I wouldnt consider Lace as some parallel to PV though, like it probably is but I see silksong as its own thing

[open dragon]

Hollow Knight has alot of terrible parents huh? Lol

[ember river]

We don't know if the weavers set up all the slavery and extreme religiousness going on to be fair

[frosty gate]

Vespa was alright

[abstract rivet]

The only relevant mf that got treated good in this game as a kid is Hornet

[cedar skiff]

i do wanna look more into if i can find out what exactly lace was for i always struggled interpreting that hmm

[frosty gate]

"Good"

[abstract rivet]

Yeah Hornet is a spoiled brat

Royalty slop

[open dragon]

Hornet is spoiled cuz she got 3 moms

[ember river]

Yeah, parting from the Vessel parallel it's easy to go to PV

[abstract rivet]

who is the third bro

[ember river]

Mainly because PV was the only one we really got any insight into

[open dragon]

White Lady? Okay thats being a little generous huh

[frosty gate]

Herrah, White Lady, Vespa

[ember river]

White Lady, Vespa and Herrah

[abstract rivet]

I wouldnt say White Lady or Vespa is “mom” but rather “mentor”

[ember river]

Do you think Hornet spoke in real time with WL?

[abstract rivet]

white lady is too busy being a tree

[dusky bay]

The weavers just said "fuck we are adopted nah fuck dis shit" and left while conductors just played with the silk bec kewl power me want one and test it too

[frosty gate]

Hornet probably thinks of them as maternal figures

[ember river]

We don't know if that was the catalyst at all

[abstract rivet]

Also how is Vespa a mom for Hornet

[open dragon]

The Weavers, the consequences of telling your child "you're adopted"

[ember river]

In fact I'd say First Sinner was jailed BY the weavers for insulting their own divinity

[lucid fossil]

and they wanted power or something

[lucid fossil]

i thought they were the first weaver to rebel

also do you guys think PV was trained by weavers… look at dat similarity between focus and rune rage…

[hushed yoke]

confronting the elders in act 3:

"You bound it to that void!"

"Don't play daft. You should well know our family's fixations. Surely you had a hunch?"

yes i know that hallownest's snail shamans arent related to pharloom's snail shamans, but hornet literally learns NOTHING about their history in pharloom, just that she's sees through them and recognizes them as snail shamans. and just from that the caretaker seems to think she'd know they were plotting something void related.

[ember river]

We don't know, but the citadel wasn't there before they ensnared GMS

[ember river]

No

[abstract rivet]

was GMS a good monarch before the weavers lowkey enraged bro

[lucid fossil]

i thought they built the citadel then put her to sleep

[ember river]

And I'd get pissed off if that was the case, it detracts from the power of other higher beings

[ember river]

The citadel was built as a prison

[hushed yoke]

and that brings me to a point i kept forgetting to touch on. the ancestral mound shaman literally has NO clue what happened to all their family! they're comically outside the loop! so sorry for thinking they may not be the most reliable narrator when it comes to their ancestor's ties to the void or lackthereof. before silksong, i DID meaningfully believe that detail suggested the snail shamans had zero clue about the void, but after silksong i feel it retroactively bolstered the interpretation that the ancestral mound snail shaman had no idea what they were talking about

also this is more of a stretch, but i want this on the record anyways. the pharloom snail shamans have the same culture of referring to each other as family the way that the ancestral mound shaman talks about their family. aunts, uncles, cousins, stuff like that, no ones left out of the family. to me that feels distinct from a clan or faction calling eachother siblings, and distinct from a mother queen type hive situation, its just the snail shamans' thing.

the implication to me then is that the snail shamans, all snail shamans, potentially believe themselves to be of one family. which adds a lot of weight to the caretaker's line about "our family's fixations", albeit still at odds with what the ancestral mound shaman says about their family not knowing anything about void. could it just be that their family branches went down different paths? sure, i mean i still dont think team cherry would be blind to the implications of connecting the pharloom snail shamans to void lore so strongly in the first place, but fine. i may disagree but ive finally gotten tired of yapping on this subject, so im raising my white flag

[abstract rivet]

citadel is basically hell disguised as heaven

[lucid fossil]

yeah, I thought they built it first

[open dragon]

Karmelita has got to be one of the strongest non-pale non-god mortal beings in the HK universe, Hornet even comments, Karmelita's attacks, speed and moves rival even Hornet's

[ember river]

Itt's more of a machine dressed up in gold with a purpose far above any of its operators

[lucid fossil]

and this girl was just good at signing or something

do you think she’s singing for echolocation or is that just me

[abstract rivet]

Hornet hates foes but respects who challenge her (also she likes fluffy things)

[ember river]

Is there any pale being that isn't a god to begin with?

[lucid fossil]

and she hates stinky fl*es

[frosty gate]

Hornet is half pale

[ember river]

Half

[lucid fossil]

not all gods are pale beings but all pale beings are gods

[open dragon]

She fights Hornet with her eyes closed...literally

[lucid fossil]

she’s a demigod

[ember river]

That's what I'm saying

[dusky bay]

Tbh weavers just ran away bec they found out they are adopted
Gms did like 0 harm at most
Pharloom people who kinda killed themselves
Beside the sleep
Conductors kept testing with silk turning people to silk flies
And the slavery in underworks while not caring about the people of pharloom making it only the most powerful get up here to either work in the underworks or in the citadel
And we just have wisp thicket having people who are worshipping grimm

[ember river]

Also if someone says palestag I'm killing the green prince again

[abstract rivet]

We need more grub screentime like where are the grubberflies

Melodies of Grubs DLC

[open dragon]

In da belly

[abstract rivet]

where we explore grubnest and its just filled with grubs

[open dragon]

Of the grub father

[lucid fossil]

Wasn’t the palestag just a myth

[ember river]

The grubfather was just a grub mimic wanting to eat grubs

[abstract rivet]

nah by the time theyre grubbrflies theyre out of the tummy of grubfather

[abstract rivet]

Man ngl I would be too

[frosty gate]

It's... Unclear

[ember river]

Most likely
Even if it wasn't, it wasn't a true pale being

[atomic dirge]

"pale"stag is just pale because it's white

[abstract rivet]

I mean you are telling me, some void creature brings you grubs, while you sit there? and 46 of them? Now i call that a heavenly dinner

[ember river]

Pretty much

[lucid fossil]

makes sense since pale is usually a separate word when describing a god

like pale wyrm or white lady

[ember river]

Yeah, pale monarch too

[atomic dirge]

greymoor, green prince, verdania, palestag
damn was everything in east pharloom just fucking colors

[ember river]

Verdania is also just green

[abstract rivet]

the areas in this game just define the areas, verdania means greenland and prime verdanias p much green, The citadel is a citadel, the greymoor is a grey moor, sands of karak is basically a area with karak’s sands, putrified ducts is a putrified duct, moss grotto is a mossy grotto

[dusky bay]

I like fleas more bec they atleast have more than the same grub in a jar
We got fleas in box thing
Sleeping fleas
Fleas stuck in roots
Fleas in a cage
Big flea in a cage with a lil bossfight
Creepy flea who looks at you in the spa
And flea hunter
While grubs again are just
Slugs in jar not that much different and all the same

[abstract rivet]

I like fleas wow

[lucid fossil]

Flea mimic

[abstract rivet]

Grubs if they were perfected to perfection

[atomic dirge]

"perfected to perfection"

[lucid fossil]

I was expecting a flea mimic the whole game

[abstract rivet]

brain is not braining

[lone folio]

Yeah variation is also why fleas are better

[ember river]

Plusquamperfect

[abstract rivet]

something up with this krystalic guy fr..

[dusky bay]

I was expecting a collector in momorium but what I found is big fluffy boi

[dusky bay]

Gir gra gir...skarr words idk

[ember river]

Also the fleamaster is better than the grubfather

[atomic dirge]

why is there just a pilgrim in a tube in the memorium btw

"you're part of the ecosystem. get in the fucking tube"

[lucid fossil]

is it just me who always saw the fleamaster as a guy with tired eyes instead of a mustache

[lone folio]

Taking a walk

[lucid fossil]

I still see the tired eyes I literally cannot see his stache

[abstract rivet]

I mean the citadel lost the plot a while ago and they be doing anything so dont question

[ember river]

Yes? He has two clear eyes

[dusky bay]

Probably trying to enter the citadel in some way but died like the others
Or cleaning the tube
Since slavery in citadel is the best and the finest

[lone folio]

Yes

[ember river]

What did you think they were, eyebrows?

[atomic dirge]

Mizello was bored and just said "yeah put that guy in a glass tube"

[lucid fossil]

no dude those two dots look like EYES AND the two things below them looked like eye bags 😭😭

[ember river]

Right before his surgery

[lucid fossil]

I’m not tweaking dude I swear he has tired eyes

[lone folio]

His last words

[dusky bay]

Like ik we have grubfather
But cmon
It's moshka
MOSHKAFIBRI
MARASKAAAA

[abstract rivet]

Why the fuck those memorium enemies witj citadel heads appear in act 3 but not act 2

[atomic dirge]

they appear in act 2 too, but only in 1 room

[dusky bay]

They have an arena

[frosty gate]

I find it crazy how the Underworks was full of people but none of them resembled the Pilgrims

[abstract rivet]

They should add 200 fleas to this game so I can play flea juggle with 50 of them at the same time

flea dodge with 300 fleas how does that sound

[dusky bay]

A billion bell noises as being flung left to right

[abstract rivet]

they just fucked up pilgrims

[lucid fossil]

im going to beat you

[dusky bay]

Slavery at its finest

[ember river]

You would instantly win if you superjumped at the right time

[abstract rivet]

no how about flea juggle with 300 piss fleas

[ember river]

Two do

[dusky bay]

Guys
I love flea juggle...

[opaque pier]

Yes they do, esprcially yhe scrubbers

[ember river]

The ones with the steel brushes

[lone folio]

The scrubbers resemble pilgrims alot

[atomic dirge]

did the citadel just say pilgrims are scrubs damn

[dusky bay]

Scrubby my fav guy

[abstract rivet]

flea juggle and you gotta get to 100, but at the same time, Lost Lace, Karmelita and Void Savage Beastfly is fighting you

[lone folio]

I swear they just appeared and I was so confused when I saw them

[abstract rivet]

what does scrubs mean again

[ember river]

Also the flying ones could somewhat resemble reeds?

[lone folio]

They also look like the most normal citadel enemy

[ember river]

Most are choir members, but some end up in the underworks

[ember river]

Memorias? Those are the memorium's workers

[abstract rivet]

I think who goes to where is determined by last judge

[atomic dirge]

im joking about the more pilgrim-like underworks guys being the scrubbers

[dusky bay]

The cleaning one resembles the wisp dudes
Tbh I wonder do the wisp dudes pray to grimm
Since yk
Father of the flame
Flame like what's grimm built around

[atomic dirge]

the joke being i called them scrubs

[abstract rivet]

yeah but like why they aint in act 2

[atomic dirge]

they are

[ember river]

Either there or in the grand gate, where the two paths can be found

[abstract rivet]

they are?

[atomic dirge]

just. only in the voltvessel arena

[ember river]

They are

[abstract rivet]

I never saw them lmao

[ember river]

Wait they show up in act 3 elsewhere?

[abstract rivet]

i got voltvessel in act 3 that explains it

[abstract rivet]

they appear in entire of memorium inact 3

and voidified

[dusky bay]

There is an arena with 2 of them you fight
You can do it in act 2
And after you beat the arena you get the thing that tells you that you killed them all
They are

[abstract rivet]

I got voltvessel in act 3 loo

[ember river]

Huh, I killed them in the voltvessel room in act 2 when I got the double jump and never saw them again

[lone folio]

Yeah I guess those two dudes at grant gate were chosen to be a pile of mush on the floor

[abstract rivet]

I entered act 3 with 47% comp pretty sure,

[dusky bay]

Fun fact
You can save everyone in bonebottom

[opaque pier]

Even pebb?

[abstract rivet]

would you rather go to hell disguised as heaven or hell but its basically hell

[ember river]

Won't the shopkeeper die either way?

[dusky bay]

The lil pirglim can leave before tyrant spawns
And if you don't have to buy the simple key from pebb

[ember river]

Life in the Choir wasn't bad

[dusky bay]

Don't buy the simple key

[ember river]

Quite the opposite

[abstract rivet]

I want them pilgrims to die I dont wanna save anyone (except sherma)

[dusky bay]

Yup

[ember river]

Huh? All unsold stock goes to the thief guy in blasted steps

[abstract rivet]

Why am I the one saving them its time for them to stand up for themself

[ember river]

Does it not

[opaque pier]

I thought they either get ensared by the haunting or murked in act 3

Ensnared*

[dusky bay]

They don't leave until you buy everything if I am correct
You don't have to buy the key since you can enter the docks bottom area from far fields instead of using a simple key

And for the dude in the fast travel uh

[ember river]

I hadn't bought the magnetite brooch and she dies either way

[opaque pier]

They die i saw their corpse

[ember river]

The thief just gets any unbought stock

[dusky bay]

Since he leaves after you scare him with bell beast then dies I saw his body

Never go to bonebottom with bellbeast

[frosty gate]

They still die

[dusky bay]

And everyone is saved fr-

[ember river]

You've lived a lie

[dusky bay]

Oh rip
Stoopid dude what I tell you 😭

[ember river]

If you enter act 3 the shopkeeper dies

100% of the time

[dusky bay]

How da faq

[lone folio]

Stand upp for themselves? What is pebb sopposed to do against skull tyrant

[dusky bay]

Welp pebb can atleast live till act3...

[opaque pier]

Hornet is a cold blooded murderer and doesnt deserve a happy ending throw her into the abyss

[frosty gate]

How would they not?

[dusky bay]

This is why your daughter hates you pale king

[ember river]

ANY UNPURCHASED STOCK GOES TO THE THIEF

[dusky bay]

Archetic and snowclave atleast survive...

[ember river]

Songclave you mean?

Architect can survive, yes

[opaque pier]

She loves my buzzsaws so thats a win for me

[dusky bay]

The guy from snowclave you buy from

[ember river]

Or she can die

[dusky bay]

She stopped saying shaw

[ember river]

Songclave, not snowclave

[abstract rivet]

the knight stood up to quadruple size just give them a wooden needle theyll be fine

[ember river]

Also yes, he survives

[dusky bay]

Oh

did I always call it snowclave-

[ember river]

Seemingly

[abstract rivet]

wtf happened to caretaker in act 3 btw

[ember river]

Did you not play act 3?

[abstract rivet]

I did I just forgot

[ember river]

The snails all die

[opaque pier]

Thats just because she hit her head too hard after the fall and forgot how to say it

[abstract rivet]

We confront the snails

[dusky bay]

What if I don't do the mission where he is in the momoruim and enter act 3
Does he just ded?

[abstract rivet]

They lowkey die

[ember river]

They sacrifice themselves to cast the red memory

[ember river]

Don't think so

[abstract rivet]

wtf caretaker was one of those guys

[dusky bay]

Bwomp
She forgot about you
You don't even appear in the red memory only your wife does

[ember river]

In fact you may be required to complete that mission

[opaque pier]

The small one, also yeah he said they were all related

[abstract rivet]

Bro I should quit reading dialogue so fast, i am not a dialogue skipper i just read them without thoight

[dusky bay]

Also what if I never free grindle..........

[ember river]

Frees himself?

Dunno

[dusky bay]

You sure smh he seems stoopid

[opaque pier]

Ay one of my void constructs still appears she loves and remembers me fr she even mentiones me in the hunters journal

I have such a happy family

[lone folio]

The knight is very short but his parents are gods and he got injected with alot of void, he also has access to spells and has a good needle compared to the wooden nail that zote has

[ember river]

Well he can show up in the slab if you get captured and he's not free

[dusky bay]

You killed yourself when your son got trapped in the black egg

[ember river]

The knight has a nail, not a needle

[dusky bay]

SIBLINGS SIBLINGS SIBLINGS SIBLINGS THIS IS MY SIST-

[ember river]

We don't know that, also it most definetely wasn't because of THK

It happened during the second outbreak

[dusky bay]

His wife divorced him trust me

[opaque pier]

Its because i didnt have any buzzsaws to work on anymore my my pale tabler ran out of battery and i couldnt play subway surfers 😔

[ember river]

She calls him her beloved wyrm if you show up with the kingsoul

[dusky bay]

Yea before they divorced!!

[ember river]

That makes no sense

[dusky bay]

Cmon that guy is an imp
Look at the white lady she is big how does this even work

[lone folio]

TROBBBIOOOOO

[gloomy heart]

I dont think death counts as divorce lmao

[ember river]

The pale king received an Amazon notification that the "White Palacd, Realm of Dreams 16, left, 5th floor" couldn't be reached and his shipment of spikes and barbed wire would not be delivered and he had a heart attack

[dusky bay]

Shush hollow knight you aren't even alive anymore go back to playing cards with the knight

[lone folio]

I scream as I hurl grenades painted pink and as I take two battle axes and start spinning at 567 miles per hour

[gloomy heart]

no will to break so nuh uh

[ember river]

Wait... would that make the White Lady... a Widow?

[gloomy heart]

https://tenor.com/view/say-that-again-gif-968943876633031890

[opaque pier]

It was tragic news, not even the fall of my kingdom and the death of my children was as sad as that

[dusky bay]

Hollow knight
Why were you chosen to be the pale king's son

[gloomy heart]

idk the others had a skill issue ig

[dusky bay]

Hornet got pregnant with a parasite btw
You are a grandpa now

[lone folio]

White lady is a Weaver confirmed

[gloomy heart]

she got that shit aborted tho

[ember river]

The typo of White Palace into Palacd was intentional, you miswrote it and they couldn't find it.
That's the real tragedy

[opaque pier]

Nah bro got aborted

[opaque pier]

Its not my fault, i have stubby little hands amd i cant type well 😭

[dusky bay]

Nah it got stabbed alot with needles
It's still in there but hornet controls it now
She is still pregnant

[dusky bay]

How it feels to be a grandpa

[opaque pier]

Permapregnancy

[gloomy heart]

i’m gonna be so fr that thing is not coming about after yarnaby did her thing lmao

[ember river]

Imagine Greyroot coming out of Hornet with severe brain damage after several millenia

[opaque pier]

I lowkey wanna throw my grandchild into the abyss just to see what happens

[ember river]

When she finally dies

[lone folio]

And they say the citadel has issues! The entirety of hallownest is most likely illiterate!

[opaque pier]

Hornet does say it has a violent aversion to the void so id experiment

[gloomy heart]

does that mean i officially will reach unc status

[dusky bay]

LMAO TT

[lone folio]

That's why they use so many drawings, They can't convey information in letters! BAHHHAAHAHA

[opaque pier]

Untrue, i just completed a whole book, even if it was a coloring one

[ember river]

Pharloom does that too

[dusky bay]

I wonder if you go to yarnaby while being drunk with regenerated hearts does she let you in?
Since eva won't let you get close to her when you are

[gloomy heart]

higher beings these words are for you alone: sGebfksushbrdksh

[dusky bay]

Bud we don't want another gms situation

[lone folio]

All glory to the citadel you are wrong your going to the slab

[gloomy heart]

i dont think plasmium oding has her let you in lol

[ember river]

Good luck, I am in the superior Hallownest

Home of the famous Hollow Knight

[gloomy heart]

citadel defenders when they have to exist for more than 2 seconds in the underworks

[dusky bay]

We need more yarnby making weird first time tests on hornet that will fr not kill her!!

[opaque pier]

Worth the try, of smth goes wrong ill just hide in the palace again

[lone folio]

THE UNDERWORKS IS ALL PROPAGANDA MADE BY HALLOWNEST TO HURT OUR INCOME FROM OUR TOURIST ATTRACTIONS

[atomic dirge]

she has unique dialogue but doesn't let you in

[dusky bay]

Everyone ships your daughter with a French woman with a giant ass-

[atomic dirge]

this also happens if you're maggoted

[gloomy heart]

Ah yes like bilewater

[gloomy heart]

Wait fr that’s so sick

[ember river]

Imagine if the Pale King didn't die and he's just a minuscule worm

[opaque pier]

So what? I dated a tree

[dusky bay]

What like
"It's not interesting enough"?

[atomic dirge]

Speaking while being infested with Muckmaggots:

Hornet: Madam, I am sickly. Maggots of the fetid bogs beyond the moors writhe upon my shell. I would ask your aid in removing them.
Maggots! That's all you bring the great Yarnaby?! My time is precious! Only for the seriously afflicted! The truly, hideously enfeebled. Bzzt!
Find a bench, or a bed, or a rock! It's only rest you need. Settle yourself somewhere, and those maggots will soon wriggle themselves out of your shell.```
Exhausted dialogue while being infested with Muckmaggots     
```Shoo I say! Unless you've brought a worthy specimen, with something truly nasty inside them, bzzt! Otherwise, leave the great Yarnaby in peace!

Go and rest! Bzzt! Free yourself of your trifling ailment and leave me in peace! The great Yarnaby has no time for petty maladies!
Hornet: Very well, madam. I did not mean to waste your time. ```

[gloomy heart]

Interesting that she tells you straight up benching removed maggots, very cool!

[atomic dirge]

Speaking while being inflicted with Plasmium overdose:

Hornet: Though the substance provides some regenerative aid, I feel my mind at dangerous risk of being overtaken.
Bzzt! Maybe overtaken is good? Better even? Why go thinking yours is a mind so precious?
The great Yarnaby treats the sick! Not those that benefit from their afflictions. Enjoy its advantage and leave me in peace!```
Exhausted dialogue while being inflicted with Plasmium overdose:
```Bzzt! Leave me in peace! The great Yarnaby treats the sick! Not those that benefit from their afflictions. Enjoy its advantage and leave me in peace!

Hornet: Very well, madam. I did not mean to waste your time.```

[dusky bay]

Damn yarnby is so smart wth
Also how does she know resting does that
(Does eva not let you get near her if you have maggots?)

[gloomy heart]

Do NOT let yarnaby and zylotol meet

ts why lifeblood was banned in hallownest smh

[dusky bay]

Atleast your dad did something good

[ember river]

It's too bad that we can't slap Yarnaby

[dusky bay]

You can

[gloomy heart]

She is not safe from the backhand of hallownest

[ember river]

No, Eva doesn't let you get near while cursed

[atomic dirge]

if you talk to her enough after the quest Hornet slaps her

[gloomy heart]

he means while maggot infested not cursed

[dusky bay]

Maggots not cursed
The things in bilewater and sinner's road and purified ducts

[dusky bay]

I wish we get more yarnby content soon

[gloomy heart]

im interested to see if they even added anything for that considering how far the nearest maggots are lol

[atomic dirge]

do bellways remove maggots

[ember river]

I don't think that has any interaction with eva is what I meant

[dusky bay]

Beat gms while having maggots trust

[ember river]

Easier than cursed

[dusky bay]

Or being overdosed:3

[gloomy heart]

That’s a great question actually idk bc i would always get rid of them first via bench haha

[dusky bay]

Wish it had special interactions but it probably just ends the same way

[gloomy heart]

I just checked apparently they actually do

[regal crow]

What’s karmelita’s story? She looks very different in present day

[dusky bay]

Her song would reunite the skarrs and I think put gms to sleep

[regal crow]

But she didn’t?

[atomic dirge]

she just grew old and weak

[regal crow]

Ah

[gloomy heart]

I dont think she had a hand in putting gms to sleep but her song was a unifying force, she lost her power with age so now the ants succumb to the haunting

[dusky bay]

She was also very strong and powerful but overtime she grew old and her voice died
If you play the needolin at all beside her old one you can hear her trying to sing

[regal crow]

Damn

[gloomy heart]

She even tries to sing the same song she does in the boss fight which is a really sick detail

[gloomy heart]

That and probably her kingdom was subjugated to an extent by the citadel given they do tend to do that

[regal crow]

How long ago are these memories?

[dusky bay]

I wonder when you bind with eva
Do you kill her and get her powers
Or is she inside of you
Bec if she is inside of you
Hornet is pregnant with 2 grown ass women 😭

[gloomy heart]

Hard to say other than pre GMS

[spare holly]

I gently open the chat

[atomic dirge]

all we know is they come from Pharloom in its prime, before the reign of GMS

[regal crow]

Centuries? Millennia? Decades?

[gloomy heart]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[regal crow]

I got no clue the timeline for this game

[graceful flicker]

TC doesn't like timeframes

[atomic dirge]

[dusky bay]

Hornet is pregnant with a parasite that is greyroot

[regal crow]

Kinky

Nah, I’m fucking with you. That was weird af

[spare holly]

She is not pregnant.. 💔

[atomic dirge]

Anyways

[dusky bay]

OI WHAT NO GREYROOT BITES HORNET AND PUTS THE CHILD WHO IS GREYROOT IN HER

[atomic dirge]

Anyways

it seems Karmelita has some sort of foresight in a way?

[gloomy heart]

oiii

oiii

ahoiii

[atomic dirge]

Pale beast... bringing ruin... we had sensed it... you writing harsh our final fate...

[regal crow]

I’ve been wondering, is gms a wyrm?

[gloomy heart]

This brings up the question do the heart bosses count as higher beings?

[gloomy heart]

Minus green prince

[atomic dirge]

nah

[gloomy heart]

I dont think we know anything about her origin actually i’d love to get more info abt it

[atomic dirge]

well nyleth probably

but khann is prob just some fucking guy

[dusky bay]

She is
In twisted child ending hornet and gms becomes a shell and greyroot breaks free

[dusky bay]

SHUSH

[regal crow]

Pale nails makes me wonder

[gloomy heart]

Only reason i ask now is bc this seems more like a higher being thing tbh

[humble peak]

me when I get a tapeworm (i am pregnant)

[dusky bay]

Huh
Her voice is that gud

[gloomy heart]

And if both nyleth and karmelita were higher beings khann would also make sense given his command of the coral and undisputed loyalty of his coral soldiers

[abstract rivet]

we are desperate for dlc… team cherry

[gloomy heart]

again tho i got no fucking clue lol

[humble peak]

I don't think she's literally seeing the future
there are lots of ways to "sense" something coming without actual foresight

[spare holly]

Its just a bacteria in our blood, not..

[gloomy heart]

that’s true the ants def weren’t stupid

[regal crow]

Technically we got one. Silksong was originally gonna be a dlc

[dusky bay]

Nyelth? NYELTH? THE WOMAN WHO I POGOED HER ASS TILL SHE DIED? NYELTH?????

[abstract rivet]

act 3 is an 8/10 for me, act 1 and 2 is 10/10

[gloomy heart]

erm ackually itz “nyleth”

[dusky bay]

It's a parasite
A child
The achievement says twisted child
There is a child in hornet
Accept the truth...

[humble peak]

y'all are really underestimating what makes a higher being bethinks

like the term isn't too defined but

[gloomy heart]

I almost definitely am i’m just throwing it out there bc i dont remember the parameters for it lol

[dusky bay]

I hope radiance comes back and infects you again

[gloomy heart]

I strive to be corrected

[humble peak]

by some of y'all's logic Shakra would be a higher being lol

[abstract rivet]

higher being is basically too big and too exaggerated in terms of power wow

[gloomy heart]

Fair enough lol

[spare holly]

It says twisted child cuz we are a descendant of grandmother silk thats cursed..?

[gloomy heart]

if that’s the case i hope you get jumped in hunters march

[humble peak]

STOP TALKING ABOUT THE PREGNANCY ALLEGORY

[abstract rivet]

higher beings are tall, lower beings are short, problem solved (except nyleth she a exception)

[dusky bay]

We aren't gms's child brother....
Even first sinner proves that pal...
Accept it.........

[abstract rivet]

we are gms’s granddaughter

[gloomy heart]

Also tbf in that ending the root literally breaks out

[spare holly]

Fantasies I guess...

[dusky bay]

They need to know....
What TC makes in the lab......

[gloomy heart]

This reads like needolin dialogue

[humble peak]

Anyway do we agree Greyroot is somehow related to White Lady?
Like they've gotta be the same kinda thing right

[ember river]

Why would Khann ever be a Higher Being

People will call a fucking rock a higher being any day

[gloomy heart]

Idk about the SAME kinda thing but the similarities are striking for sure

[humble peak]

I said "kinda" thing not literal same thing

[ember river]

They both are roots, but they aren't really the same thing

[gloomy heart]

Fair apologies

[abstract rivet]

khann is a cult leader

[gloomy heart]

i mean rock provides shade for many bugs

[ember river]

I'd say roots can be different amongst them just like bugs are

[abstract rivet]

frfr

[ember river]

Khann is just a king

[dusky bay]

The hero.....the child.....bound together.....the hero....a mother....to a twisted parasite....the child.....

[gloomy heart]

rock is above bugs so rock is higher beings

[abstract rivet]

Khann is Hornets Brother guys

[gloomy heart]

easy

[humble peak]

rock isn't a being though
it's just a higher object

[dusky bay]

They are both trees

[ember river]

Roots*

[gloomy heart]

not with that attitude

[dusky bay]

trees

[spare holly]

Ones an ever ending curse to relish a beast
The other ones an elder lady
I mean.. They do have roots like trees does.. But thats just the way something spreads..

[abstract rivet]

higher being make one billion metrees of area and one billion children, thats what a higher being js

[ember river]

They are roots, trees aren't really a thing

Since bugs are tiny so a tree would be huge

[gloomy heart]

also if it wasn’t clear i’m meming lmao

[dusky bay]

Girrr Kah...grrruuah...ka- dies

[ember river]

And both HK and SS happen in caverns

[gloomy heart]

skill issue tbh couldnt be me

[ember river]

So no trees

[gloomy heart]

we also admittedly never see sunlight on the surface so ik some people have taken that to mean even the “surface” is below ground

[dusky bay]

I wonder if there is another godhome and it's entering the memories of the dude while he is infected with void and dead
Might that mean the pantheon ending is the canon one?

[gloomy heart]

I dont agree but the idea is interesting

[ember river]

The surface could just be a very very large cavern for all we know

[humble peak]

I thought that was the consensus

[spare holly]

Would be insane to pull up to the surface just to realize we are located in the uk

[gloomy heart]

Very possible tho it makes me wonder how the wind works then

[ember river]

Or the world could be a plain surrounded by void in all directions

[dusky bay]

It can also be the everbloom one if the guy is still alive
There are 2 godhome endings
One with everbloom and one without

[gloomy heart]

Tbf you shoulda realized that when you got to greymoor

[ember river]

The difference is negligible

[dusky bay]

We seen what the everbloom can do
So the godhome dude is alive and mightve left to pharloom
But in the normal ending he dies in hollownest

[ember river]

The everbloom one is what kills him after he becomes attuned with the void

[dusky bay]

In the everbloom godhome ending he teleports he mightve telepoted into pharloom you think?

[ember river]

Where do you get that the everbloom teleports

It destroys the void

Or absorbs, rather

[gloomy heart]

only thing with that is if that was the case why tf did it take bro so long to pull up

what could it have possibly been busy with, filing void taxes?

[spare holly]

He gets disintegrated bro

[dusky bay]

If you give the godhome dude an everbloom instead of where the mission wants you the ending changes
Where the guy teleports instead with it

[ember river]

He doesn't teleport, he gets obliterated

[dusky bay]

Huh...why tho

[ember river]

That's why one petal turns black

[ember river]

Because he attunes with the void and becomes void

[dusky bay]

So in the two endings he just
Dies

[ember river]

And the everbloom absorbs void

[ember river]

We don't know if they die in the normal one

[humble peak]

The everbloom repels void

[spare holly]

Everbloom = eat void
Godseeker = at a little void like shape before it got big

[ember river]

Their plan was to become attuned with a god and we don't know what that means

[gloomy heart]

That reminds me team cherry please i need you to explain more about what in the actual fuck was going on with the land of storms and the old gods there

[spare holly]

Do radiance on attuned duh

[dusky bay]

So
If we see the same godseeker with void does that mean that the everbloom ending isn't real?

[ember river]

That form might just be the void attuned form, and if godseeker mode is anything to go by, they survive

[dusky bay]

Wait then how would we get a godhome if he is just
Dead in hollownest

[ember river]

If we see the same godseeker I'll mousetrap my tongue

[spare holly]

The ending is real because we see shade lord

[gloomy heart]

it’s isnt black and white whether or not it’s etv or dnm there’s evidence for either imo

[ember river]

I'd rather not get any godseekers at all and put the boss rush elsewhere since we can actually get cool new things instead of the same lore all over

[ember river]

Me when ambiguity

[dusky bay]

It's still unknown it might be the true ending too
The fountain dude calls you shade lord if you dream nail him

[gloomy heart]

it definitely can’t be anything else besides those two tho lol

[spare holly]

Godseeker(s) [some sort of race]

[dusky bay]

Huh isn't he the last...

[gloomy heart]

voided godseeker for pharloom pantheons would go kinda crazy tbh

[ember river]

The "shade lord" is essentially the wielder of the Void Heart, according to that dialogue, but the Void Given Focus is called ShadeLord in the files

[sacred heath]

maybe the shade lord is just some kind of battle form that whoever controls the void can take on

[spare holly]

We become the shade lord because we unlock the true potential of the void heart charm thru pantheon 5

[sinful nimbus]

Do you guys think Salubra is an evolutionary cousin to the Snail Shamans

[ember river]

Nah, it needs attunement

[humble peak]

he calls you the lord of shades, it's a description
the being we see int eh godseeker ending has no canon name. "shade lord" is just a fanon title based on the game files
but it's not canon

[ember river]

Like how AbsRad is the Radiance but also not really the same

[gloomy heart]

“Void given form” “Void given focus” why can’t Void be given bit-

[dusky bay]

Again did hornet just
Sit infront of the black egg and oh so magically everything became good again?
If so why do we never hear from the hollow knight

[ember river]

The closest thing is Void Given Focus, or the "Focus form" or however you want to shorten it

[humble peak]

yeah true

[ember river]

It was given 3 in Silksong

And it rejected 2

[ember river]

Because a long time has passed?

[gloomy heart]

Etv literally has thk pop out of the egg and pull up on hornet

[humble peak]

what was the first void idol thing called again?

[gloomy heart]

LMAO true

[ember river]

Neither beast, nor bug, nor god

[humble peak]

right thanks

[ember river]

Those are the Vessels

[spare holly]

1. Its because we killed radiance within godseeker, since we reached them from there instead of the temple
2. Silksong starts with hornet randomly captured, a fight possibly did break between the two of them

[gloomy heart]

void very much feels like a force of nature more than anything

the inevitable destruction and entropy that will one day consume all

[dusky bay]

No I mean if the godhome ending the true one
If so thk would be alive rn and the infection of him would go away
While hornet would just he sitting outside and just everything iz gud

[ember river]

Why would they fight

[gloomy heart]

it also tastes good as fuck

[spare holly]

Possibly

[ember river]

Hornet definetely knows who THK is and can probably figure out what happened from every infected vein withering

And THK is a cripple who came out of its supposedly eternal tomb after a bad dream

[humble peak]

yeah they're smart enough to not fight unnecessarily I think

[dusky bay]

Hornet gets captured bec gms wanted all the weavers back
Also radiance gets killed either way even in the main ending

[ember river]

They have no reason to fight whatsoever

[ember river]

Radiance doesn't die in HK

[gloomy heart]

Tbf thk might still be tweaking after that not knowing wtf is happening anymore but i do agree they probably didnt fight hornet was just caught off guard assuming etv is canon

[dusky bay]

What?
I am sure he does

[ember river]

No

[lone folio]

i was wondering about Trobbios stage again and only now i remembered that these things exist, what the hell is this thing

[humble peak]

They mean the "Hollow Knight" ending

where she's only sealed again

[spare holly]

Bug

[gloomy heart]

In hk ending or hk the game lol bc she definitely dies in at least 2 endings lol

[ember river]

Yeah I do mean that

[dusky bay]

?
Put like
Thk opens his eye and he keeps getting slapped and shi

[ember river]

In the basic HK ending

[gloomy heart]

Gotcha lol i wish that ending had a more descriptive name lmao

[ember river]

The HOLLOW KNIGHT ENDING, the basic one, where you take over as the new vessel

[gloomy heart]

Sealed siblings is also basically just this but hornet also gets fucked so i imagine it applies there too lol

[dusky bay]

Nono I mean where
When you beat the hollow knight
You enter and fight the radiance
Then you and hollow knight kill him

[ember river]

Yeah, pretty much

[ember river]

That's DNM

[humble peak]

Anyway I actually hope we don't see uninfected THK because that would make ETV canon and I hate ETV
DNM for life
Sister of the Void seems to leave it sorta "hey you can choose which one you like :)" which seems fair enough

[dusky bay]

Yea that's what ending I meant...

[spare holly]

Wording yourself in a bad way..

[dusky bay]

How da fuck you get that even

[lone folio]

defently not a scrollreader

[dusky bay]

They are lmao

[gloomy heart]

i also prefer DNM tho i dont mind ETV

i think DNM is a better ending thematically though which is part of why i headcanon it to be the “true” one

[ember river]

Don't dreamnail THK and keep fighting like normal

[gloomy heart]

Them not showing THK shade is a deliberate choice to keep the ending vague and makes sense lol

[ember river]

DNM is a better ending to the first game but EtV opens more possibilities for a sequel

[lone folio]

these two are completely different things

[humble peak]

you get it
yeah ETV is like, cool too
but DNM is like
the perfect climax yk
it's so much more dramatic

[dusky bay]

Oh LMAO
The hollow knight just goes
Fuck you hornet I wanna kill the dude

[ember river]

Yeah, haven't you gotten it?

It's in the achievements and all

[gloomy heart]

It does but like

We dont need to open up a sequel that’s literally the game we’re already playing

[humble peak]

The Hollow Knight is the big guy
the little guy you play as is just The Knight
or Little Ghost, or whatever

[sinful nimbus]

@vestal swan fight me

[dusky bay]

I uhm
Never played hollow knight:3
I have the game but ye
My first silksong playthrough till lost lace has 106hrs
-# second is 18hrs till lost lace
Tbh I didn't get interested into the game due to how it's boring to watch someone play the game
But playing it yourself is actually pretty fun

[sinful nimbus]

Why is that copium

[gloomy heart]

i think i did sealed siblings my first time bc i just wasnt locked in and kept swinging before i saw the dream nail lmao

truly no mind to think

[vestal swan]

So we already had the part of the conversation where the big form can't exist without God home, and nothing suggests otherwise

[sinful nimbus]

The big form isn't actually there

Its a vision

[vestal swan]

But also the absolute copium that hornet is having some kind of vision of a past that didn't exist is insane

[humble peak]

same lol
panicked and smacked

[spare holly]

Not a Godseeker if that what you mean since godseekers look more wrapped with their cloth

[sinful nimbus]

Kid named Pantheon 4 cutscene

[ember river]

Yeah that explains it

[humble peak]

Hold on I've gotta

[ember river]

True hollow

[vestal swan]

What does that have to do with hornet having a vision, not to mention how fucking weird that vision is by itself

[sinful nimbus]

It gives precedent for visions of Shade Lord without it actually existing

[vestal swan]

Hornet is never shown to have such visions, and it would be extremely odd for her to see potential in something and it to be a specific form that takes a specific circumstance to exist

[gloomy heart]

It flashes briefly so i interpreted that as being a glimpse into the knight’s potential or something

The fact it assumes the DNM ending form for most of it and the other shades pull up like in DNM makes me feel like that’s the ending but it’s deliberately vague

[dusky bay]

I played abit rn but can't lately since I am busy
I just killed the false knight
Got the spirit ability and
That's it :P
Will continue later but I am busy sadly

[vestal swan]

There's no logic to her seeing shadelord without shadelord having existed in her past

[humble peak]

https://youtu.be/aqaIPz-rhR8
for reference

[gloomy heart]

Again they do deliberately not have thk’s shade tho bc it would instantly give away which of the two is right lol

[sinful nimbus]

Timestamped
https://youtu.be/eRGddsDcyrE?t=140

[vestal swan]

Why are you timestamping it like I don't know what we're talking about?

[sinful nimbus]

It is clearly a vision

[vestal swan]

It's not a vision lol

[spare holly]

Explains the situation in a rich and good way that I wasnt able to express

[sinful nimbus]

The siblings are also visions

[vestal swan]

They do not

[gloomy heart]

It’s also possible that both of them are right and could have each led to the same ending for silksong which would be more in line with TC’s previous philosophy of “all endings are canon” for hk

[sinful nimbus]

They only exist in brief flashes

Like this is what's actually happening

[spare holly]

Vision in question is imagining something you havent seen b4

[sacred heath]

worst family reunion ever

[sinful nimbus]

Which has happened with this very character in the past so...?

[humble peak]

I heard someone say that it might mean to represent an either/or thing
like we see ghost with all the other siblings, but then we also see another possible ending for how it goes if ETV happened
We're deliberately not shown the shades in the following scenes, and I think this might be sort of what they're going for
Most of what it depicts is "how this happens if DNM was the ending", but the flash represents "also this is how it goes if you got ETV"

[vestal swan]

This doesn't fit the all endings or cannon because TK's eyes aren't orange , people just need to stop huffing copium and realize embrace the void is what led to silk song

[sinful nimbus]

Obviously the first 2 endings aren't canon

[humble peak]

I do like that interpretation

[sinful nimbus]

My point is that its ambiguous between Dream No More and Embrace the Void

[sacred heath]

and it should stay that way

[gloomy heart]

Well yeah i dont mean to suggest that base hk ending can lead to skong lmao

[sinful nimbus]

Which is why the siblings (Dream No More) and the Shade Lord (Embrace the Void) only show up in brief flashes

[ember river]

I think canon should be undefined unless it is used to add something to the story

[sinful nimbus]

They are visions (Hornet is tripping balls on Void or something idk)

[gloomy heart]

Just that it’s probably left vague because either embrace the void OR dream no more would have led to the same ending in silksong regardless

[ember river]

And also pretty open in case they want to make a game, say, set after Sealed Siblings at some point

[gloomy heart]

So bc of that they leave it up to interpretation

Thats my guess

[vestal swan]

We have a different timeline situation going on for all of the endings to exist in canon, including hornets there's like, two sealed two dead radiances one poofed TK, one God hornet one dead hornet one void strung kingdom, and one where it's wrecked but saved so uhhh, oh wait the two steel universes unless you want to count those as one.. 10/11 versions of outcomes, 12/13 if you count steel soul deaths as potential outcomes where they just failed

[humble peak]

If there is to be only one ending I do admit ETV seems more likely
like idk maybe the shade lord is able to shed its big giant form and just be a lil shade and stuff, not something I'd bet on but it's not impossible
but the whole "it can be either one" thing seems most likely to me

[spare holly]

Pretty sure "shade lord" form dont even exist in dnm so this isnt even really an arguement

[vestal swan]

It's not really ambiguous because one of those forms can exist without the other but not the reverse

[sinful nimbus]

vro what are you saying

[sinful nimbus]

Okay and the regular Knight form doesn't even exist in ETV

[vestal swan]

If you want to keep pretending everything is Canon we have like 13 timelines

[sinful nimbus]

No one is pretending that

[gloomy heart]

it also makes sense from a narrative satisfaction standpoint bc it follows up the people who played HK and didnt beat p5 well for not having to do literally the hardest thing in the game, while also still rewarding those who actually did p5 by leaving the door for that open

[humble peak]

so?

[sinful nimbus]

Bro is arguing against an imaginary person

[vestal swan]

No I'm just throwing that out there

Since some people keep falling back on the everything is Cannon shit

[sinful nimbus]

I wish it was...

[foggy fractal]

we're not saying that every ending is canon
we're saying either dnm or etv is

[vestal swan]

And it's embrace the void

[sinful nimbus]

Why

[vestal swan]

Because God home has to happen for that form to exist

[sinful nimbus]

Every argument about Shade Lord showing up can be made about the Siblings and Void Given Form showing up

And they dont even SHOW UP

[gloomy heart]

yeah when i brought up the all endings are canon thing i meant that to peer into team cherry’s mindset for silksong lol

[sacred heath]

unless TK can just do that

[sinful nimbus]

Shade Lord isn't actually there

[vestal swan]

The argument you have for the shade Lord form existing without God home is the same logic that would exist for reverting to the smaller form except one of these actually makes sense

[humble peak]

I think that if Silksong was part of HK as like one thing then there would probably be two versions of the final cutscene based on which you got in the first game

[sinful nimbus]

Okay but this is the form clearly associated with Dream No More

And Shade Lord is the form clearly associated with Embrace the Void

[vestal swan]

And?

You can't have one without a certain ending and it showed up

[sinful nimbus]

These two are just cosmetic changes so in theory The Knight could swap between them but that's obviously nonsense

[gloomy heart]

Probably but i can imagine they did NOT want to be having silksong check for hk save files which is fair

[vestal swan]

No matter how many times you say it they are not cosmetic changes

One is the results of a massive ritual

It cannot exist without that ritual

[sinful nimbus]

I'm sorry what are you basing your argument off of then

"It looks like Shade Lord" then its a cosmetic difference

[vestal swan]

[humble peak]

this is the most obnoxious conversation

[severe siren]

The copium in this convo is appalling ong

[gloomy heart]

would be really funny if they did do a save file check and if you used a sealed siblings ending file the game would just skip instantly to the credits LMAO

[past cypress]

Idk why HK fans despise EtV so much

[sinful nimbus]

Thank you three for your valuable contributions to the discussion

Four because Powdered just pepega'd me

[vestal swan]

I can't help it if you just keep saying things that don't make sense

There's no response to that

[sinful nimbus]

If you're going to argue The Shade Lord can change its cosmetic appearance to be Void Given Form idk why Void Given Form can't change its cosmetic appearance into the Shade Lord

[gloomy heart]

I like etv i just think dnm is more rewarding narratively so i choose to believe that in the face of silksong’s ending being purposefully vague thats about it really lol

[humble peak]

Honestly they could have done a save file check pretty easily I think
but also like, most people have gotten both endings anyway so ?

[severe siren]

It’s simple.
Does shade lord exist? Yes = ETV
no= DNM

[gloomy heart]

Probably part of why they didnt lol

[severe siren]

it’s that simple

[gentle aspen]

yo gurt

nvm

[vestal swan]

Because making itself smaller is a lot more realistic than achieving a form that took a gigantic magic ritual, especially when a bunch of y'all used to argue that TK could just give itself its old body back

[sinful nimbus]

What are you basing this off of even

[ember river]

The only thing we get is a flash and a set of references screaming ambiguity

[foggy fractal]

we have to work under an assumption either way no ?

[sinful nimbus]

Did you go up and ask The Knight if its easier to become bigger or smaller

[foggy fractal]

yo...

[ember river]

Also the canon ending between DNM and EtV matters 0

[gentle aspen]

I don’t think the latter half of the message is relevant or necessary

[vestal swan]

What do you mean one of my best to get off of the entire point of this has been that one of the forms cannot exist without Godhome?

[sinful nimbus]

Proof

[humble peak]

I'm outta here fuck this

[sinful nimbus]

If you're going to argue Shade Lord can change its appearance why can't Void Given Form do that

[vestal swan]

The burden of proof is on you because we see the circumstance where it comes to exist and not another scenario

[gloomy heart]

idc for this convo anymore tbh lol sisters of the void is peak anyways

[vestal swan]

Because one came from a very specific circumstance with outside influence

[limpid summit]

Powdered I have a question

[abstract rivet]

i wanna believe in EtV as cannon ending

[vestal swan]

Ya?

[spare holly]

Its matters if the pure vessels still around or not

[sinful nimbus]

Void Given Form only shows up in one specific scenario too

[gentle aspen]

It actually doesn’t

Not silksong relevant

[limpid summit]

Do you think Caelif and Fera Orthop could be considered additional evidence for the idea that WL’s ambient growth powers affect the flora and fauna of QG

[gloomy heart]

Fair enough i wont stop you bc that’s a valid interpretation

[gentle aspen]

No

[limpid summit]

Fera’s thorax is changing color, she’s growing feelers and her antennae are becoming larger

[sinful nimbus]

Bro is just stirring the pot 😭 🙏

[spare holly]

Future project relevant

[abstract rivet]

However DnM also could be the canon ending, we don’t have much information on why shade lore can just pop out

[limpid summit]

I’m just posing a question to my fellow

[gloomy heart]

I’m gonna be so fr i have legit NO idea who these two are

[gentle aspen]

assuming they have a future project related to it

[gentle aspen]

ghosts

[foggy fractal]

spirits

[gloomy heart]

i figured that but where are they on the map

[foggy fractal]

👻

[limpid summit]

Bottom right of QG iirc

[abstract rivet]

I accidentally dream nailed cloths spirit one tjme

[sinful nimbus]

Nothing in Hollow Knight or Silksong matters to future projects because Team Cherry doesn't bother making their lore consistent between them 🥱

[limpid summit]

Genuinely no significance they just talk about being lost

[gloomy heart]

Oh wait are they the two arguing about where to go?

[gentle aspen]

Doesn’t matter, not cloth’s actual spirit and it leaves anyways

[gentle aspen]

Yes

[foggy fractal]

it doesn't matter cuz they're making Fearless Fox next

[sinful nimbus]

peak...

[gloomy heart]

Gotcha now i remember them thanks

[vestal swan]

There's some kind of anomaly with the hollow Knight ghosts because I don't know how I missed so many of them

[abstract rivet]

Yo I have an idea guys, we bind all of pilgrims to make one big pilgrim creature

[foggy fractal]

go to wiki trust

[sinful nimbus]

Lord of Pilgrims

[gentle aspen]

Okay citadel member who made fourth chorus

[foggy fractal]

should've had wiki opened all times while playing the game 😔

[gloomy heart]

Watch fearless fox be a prequel to HK somehow and the world of that game is set before the surface became the wasteland it is now

[sinful nimbus]

I would cry

[foggy fractal]

I would laugh

[vestal swan]

We already have a Frankenstein monster, and one that kind of has void in it, the big thing in white Ward and the summon in steel soul

[sinful nimbus]

I would be silent...

[gloomy heart]

would i?

[gentle aspen]

Wouldn’t be surprised

[abstract rivet]

Hollow Knight: Silksong isn’t a sequel to Hollow Knight, it’s a prequel to Cyberpunk 2077

[gentle aspen]

I think TC needs to make a game not in the hkverse to practice writing better

[vestal swan]

Fearless Fox and it's just fox eating mushrooms and then dreams up the Hollowknight universe

[abstract rivet]

Yeah act 3 narrative is fucking weird

[limpid summit]

I disagree I think they need to go back to what made HK lore engaging and just be vaguer

[abstract rivet]

I need some dlc to fix it wow

[limpid summit]

Seeing people say higher being and pale being so much took me out

[gloomy heart]

Lmao hallownest is a fox just having one of those really weird ass dreams about food

[gentle aspen]

so, practice writing better?

[limpid summit]

Yes

[foggy fractal]

hire a writer instead

[limpid summit]

But they can stay in the HK universe to do it bum

[foggy fractal]

(us !)

[short cave]

hear me out

[abstract rivet]

I think if we just put GMS and Radiance to a boxing 1v1 the game would be 300x more interesting

[limpid summit]

We hear you

[gentle aspen]

I do not believe they can stay in the universe to do so

[limpid summit]

You may be right

[abstract rivet]

this is valid

[gentle aspen]

Since they feel the need to iterate or callback to previous things

[gloomy heart]

Seen this before and yeah i def think there is a connection

[gentle aspen]

which is one reason the writing suffers

[arctic vapor]

how does it make sense that the old bells need to be awoken, yet previous pilgrims have already made it into the city through the grand gate before hornet?

[gloomy heart]

Same with the one spirit and the karak soldiers

[abstract rivet]

the background has so much shit and we cant see it because of the blur

[sinful nimbus]

Are you happy GMS had literally no backstory or characterization

[gentle aspen]

Yknow if I had a nickel for every time that the hyped sequel to a famous indie game improved on they gameplay but worsened the story, I’d have two nickels

[foggy fractal]

silksong and ?

[sinful nimbus]

Deltarune

[gentle aspen]

hades 2

[abstract rivet]

FR silksong is better in gameplay but worse at story

[sinful nimbus]

Guh

[foggy fractal]

oh yeah hades 2 released recently

[sinful nimbus]

I really liked Silksong's story it had very effective social commentary

[gentle aspen]

aww there’s a black cat in the road

[sinful nimbus]

Like dang they didn't pull any punches

Foul creatures birthed into servitude. A sympathetic plight, and a testament to the Citadel's cruel nature.

The smell from these jailers overwhelms my senses, this prison appears to be lacking even the most basic necessities.

[foggy fractal]

his name is Uni get it right !!!

[abstract rivet]

it has much more interesting shit but narrative for void appearing kinda ruins the story for me

I really like the citadel lore tho

[sinful nimbus]

Just ignore act 3 and it's all meak

[abstract rivet]

act 3 ending is peak but like

[shell rampart]

Fellas, can someone explain Silksong's ending to meh? Like, why was the void suddenly chill wit Hornet?

[foggy fractal]

the knight showing up

[vestal swan]

void being at the bottom and being what the shamans use is fine, the fact that it is and isn't connected to TK and that somehow gets them to show up is the problem

[abstract rivet]

It was the Knight who recognized Hornet

[shell rampart]

WAIT IT WAS DEADASS THE KNIGHT??

[abstract rivet]

This!

[gentle aspen]

and its following ke

[vestal swan]

Pharlooms void was about to kill her but TK rolled up for unknown reasons

[abstract rivet]

Yes

[sinful nimbus]

Void is used in literally the least interesting way possible

[abstract rivet]

No like I find the entirety of void appearance weird

[sinful nimbus]

In fact all it is is basically the Haunting 2

[vestal swan]

How's that not interesting, what would you have them do with it instead

[gentle aspen]

void’s used as a “wow time to kill god” moment and then it becomes another infection

[sinful nimbus]

I guess that's a symptom of the haunting not being interesting though

[foggy fractal]

not do anything with it at all, just not included void in the main plot smh

[vestal swan]

Yeah that's the haunting being infection two electric boogaloo but worse

[shell rampart]

That is actually awesome, so the Knight just controls part of the void now or some?

[abstract rivet]

what do yall suggest thatd make a better narrative

[abstract rivet]

Entirety of the abyss

[uneven lake]

Yeah that seems to be its main purpose, the great enemy of life/high beings. PK called it such, Radiance called it such, hornet calls it such

[vestal swan]

Part

[abstract rivet]

Actually part but yeah

[foggy fractal]

the knight had the power to control the void ever since voidheart

[gentle aspen]

assumedly it controls the void in Hallownest and/or wherever it’s present

[abstract rivet]

Pharloom’s Abyss they control

[sinful nimbus]

While I may be the greatest chef in the world I cannot make a delicious meal from donkey

[uneven lake]

Its only an infection for as long as GMS remains alive though, once shes dead it should clear up

[gentle aspen]

no? It’s opposed to light, not higher beings

[vestal swan]

TK had control of its own abyss, but pharlooms was attacking hornet, it had to be subdued or subjugated or something

[shell rampart]

Deltarune's story isn't even finished my guy 💀

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah that was ragebait (I haven't even played chapter 3 and 4)

[abstract rivet]

act 3 feels rushed narrative wise

[vestal swan]

So tldr you just think void is slop

[abstract rivet]

I like the gameplay alot though

[sinful nimbus]

Its more that its not useable in a way that wouldn't feel like retreading old ground

[uneven lake]

Seems reasonable to think that the void is only unified to its will in the area around it

[gentle aspen]

If that were the case they wouldn’t need to attack the void tendrils for some reason

it’s just localized to Hallownest ig

[lethal burrow]

we need a "days since 'ga ga silksong bad' counter"

[shell rampart]

Feel like they could've made the Lost Lace fight more dramatic since it is the final boss (Not harder but like more 'grand' if you know what I mean), but that's just probs me being very nitpicky

[uneven lake]

Interesting

[shell rampart]

Speaking of Lace, really wished she had more presence in the story

[sinful nimbus]

True...

[abstract rivet]

I think theres a narrative error for TK appearance

[vestal swan]

I mean the steel guy, what's their name sula? Made a homunculus frankenstein thing out of it, there's apparently other ways to manipulate it they just didn't think of it

[abstract rivet]

wow we are not allowed to criticize a game we like okay

[vestal swan]

It would never leave zero

[abstract rivet]

Lost Lace fight is good, the entire void shit is confusing

[foggy fractal]

yeah their name is Sula

[sinful nimbus]

Okay but Summoned Savior has nothing to do with the established thematics of the void so I question why its even void in the first place

[shell rampart]

Blud pops up like 3 times and suddenly she is the final boss
(GMS had massive build up to her, I think, so she good)

[shell rampart]

Confusing as shit, but also cool as shit so it evens out for me ig

[sinful nimbus]

When you dumb void down to "the big overarching evil juice" it just loses a lot of its aura

[gentle aspen]

Lost Lace isn’t particularly confusing it’s just kinda lame for a final boss

[abstract rivet]

True

[gentle aspen]

another lace refight but with the same attacks we’ve seen with every other void enemy

[foggy fractal]

at least new sprites/new code

[shell rampart]

Yeah as much as the game wants you to follow 'Silksong's' story, it pretty damn hard to follow

[foggy fractal]

but nope just lace 3

[sinful nimbus]

I don't mind Lace being the final boss tbh but they should've scrambled the moveset up more

[abstract rivet]

I didn’t expect some super cool higher being like the radiance but i also didn’t expect lace a third time

[lethal burrow]

A counter existing would imply it is allowed to the extent that it would happen enough that we would need to keep track of the days without it

[shell rampart]

I thought it was going to be like 'Void Mother Silk' or something

[gentle aspen]

they coulda just had gms be the true final boss if they wanted to bring another higher being into the fold

[severe siren]

Could be worse could be the nothing burger do the overhyped gms fight

[uneven lake]

Felt to me like the point of the other void enemeys were to prepare you for her fight, like mantis tribe => mantis lords

[vestal swan]

Well I mean they were trying to give it a shape I think, while also like sacrificing dead bugs??? Like they were trying to give it a specific purpose but fucked it up, didn't they also fuck up the ritual like five times before it worked

[sinful nimbus]

wait... you mean to say we LIKE silksong? what the heck am I doing here

[shell rampart]

Maybe it should've been like a corrupted form of Lace idk, am not the devs

[gentle aspen]

Well sure but the mantis lords had differences

[gentle aspen]

that is what lost lace is

[abstract rivet]

I mean but then what do we put to replace GMS

[gentle aspen]

the bum ass conductors who didn’t do shit

[shell rampart]

The Lost Lace fight was hella fun though

[shell rampart]

Grindle /s

[gentle aspen]

idk man even a fuckin automaton made to mimic gms if you want some more foreshadowing

[abstract rivet]

Yeah actually conductors could definetly be a good idea for a untrue final boss

conductor romino

Or I don’t fucking know

silksong just kinda fumbled in terms of final boss

[sinful nimbus]

The final boss being your rival is really cool

[abstract rivet]

Yes your rival for a third time with void enemy attacks, though

[vestal swan]

Ehhh

[sinful nimbus]

Maybe have a Conductor or Last Judge be the GMS equivalent and then Lace is the final fight

[abstract rivet]

No how about conductor being untrue final and GMS being true final

[vestal swan]

Last judge definitely gave me more trouble than GMS did

[sinful nimbus]

However you also need Lace to be a real character for any emotional stakes

[foggy fractal]

first judge :D

[abstract rivet]

last judge was the boss that took me the longest

[sinful nimbus]

You know a minor thing I'm pissed about

[vestal swan]

I think the one that took me the longest was the original Savage bitchfly, then lost lace, then last judge

[sinful nimbus]

The fact that the flower field isn't important at all

[vestal swan]

Lol

[sinful nimbus]

Its the coolest setpiece ever

[foggy fractal]

those flowers are made of silk trust

[abstract rivet]

I think the game is a 9.5 and definetly an improvement of HK for so many things but in terms of act 3 narrative and final boss, ermm

[vestal swan]

That's just because all you crack heads thought it was The White flower field, the delicate flowers etc

[uneven lake]

I dont think there are any real charecters besides Hornet and maybe shakra, we dont see anyone else enough, and why would we be repeatedly fighting someone were on speaking terms with to the death

[sinful nimbus]

If HK is a 7/10 SS is an 8/10 imo

[abstract rivet]

lost lace took me like 20 mins to beat, savage beastfly took like 6 tries, Last Judge took 14 attempts though

[sinful nimbus]

It could be a 9/10 if Act 3 was good and a 10/10 if we got the OG Verdania and Coral Forest

[foggy fractal]

i wasn't counting

[abstract rivet]

we got OG verdania tho?

[uneven lake]

Ive failed the coral gauntlet atleast 15 times, probably like 25

[foggy fractal]

dlcs will make silksong 11/10 trust

[vestal swan]

We got a tiny part of it right before it died again

[abstract rivet]

I thought that was the whole verdania

[sinful nimbus]

The Verdania we got is a husk of its former glory...
There is literally nothing interesting to do there

[vestal swan]

Coral gauntlet was the only gauntlet that didn't piss me off, the enemies were spaced out good they weren't spamming bullshit or keeping you in the corner

[gentle aspen]

you gotta stop saying shit like this
who is we
and the flower already came back so it wasn’t even a stretch to assert

[abstract rivet]

I think coral forest will definetly be added as dlc, its super anticipated, there were alot of concept for it seems, It has to exist

[dusky bay]

I wonder if the 3 mottled skarrs are family
If so 2 are just...Dead
And who knows what will happen to the child

[abstract rivet]

And Khann has some gate of some kind next to his boss fight arena

[sinful nimbus]

Act 3 is literally just the dump for any leftover content they can't integrate

[abstract rivet]

also wonder wtf the door next to Karmelita’s real form will lead up to

[vestal swan]

We is everybody but me who made bad predictions years before when they saw this so many people were trying to say pharloom would be the home of the delicate flower and that that scene was proof or that the other scene on Mount Fay was proof

[sinful nimbus]

Its like they took Kingdom's Edge and made it a 3rd of the game 😭

[edgy barn]

You mean in the memory?

[abstract rivet]

yeah

[dusky bay]

Nah it will probably be needolin to the watcher of the edge
Since he fights you when needolin him so he might be stopping you to enter his memories

[sinful nimbus]

No don't make the flower field be a delicate flower just make it something

[gentle aspen]

it’s just a cool setpiece ig

[sinful nimbus]

Frankly I think it should be symbolic of romantic tension but the Silksong we got doesn't allow that for obvious reasons

[dusky bay]

It's where the ants cheer her
And if you mean the old one it's the room to the stage

[vestal swan]

I'm just saying that's what people thought it was before

I don't think it needs to be anything important it's just a bunch of flowers

It look purty

[gentle aspen]

TC after shooting the most popular ship in the foot for no good reason

It’s not like lace’s story or writing is made any better by the whole “body and mind of a child” thing

[dusky bay]

We need an actual delicate flower mission in silksong in act3....no courier rashers....just a delicate flower like mission:3

[edgy barn]

I doubt TC saw Lacenet was popular and decided "Let's screw them over by making Lace a child"

[gentle aspen]

So, liquid lacquer?

[sinful nimbus]

I mean it is the whole thing is about GMS's twisted idea of motherhood

[vestal swan]

It wouldn't be any better if there was a romantic relationship, because then hornet would just be trying to rescue lace for extremely cliche I just met you reasons

[sinful nimbus]

But it is funny that Lacenet is more interesting than what we got

[gentle aspen]

they made three areas with maggot juice

[dusky bay]

Nah
It does nothing and it takes 3 hits plus it's very simple tbh

[gentle aspen]

Delicate flower also does nothing

[sinful nimbus]

Also even if Lace wasn't a child Lacenet would still be icky because she'd be reliant on Hornet's silk to live

[edgy barn]

I'm very fond of the liquid lacer because I somehow locked in and did it first try hitless.

[vestal swan]

Yeah I was so pissed off when I figured out the one of the last areas I hadn't found yet was the third fucking swamp

[sinful nimbus]

Nah you can flesh it out

[gentle aspen]

It just isn’t hard

mt fay has like

no enemies

[sinful nimbus]

idk why Lace would actually be attacking Hornet tho

[vestal swan]

Liquid who

[foggy fractal]

has like 4 💔

[sinful nimbus]

But you can figure it out if it means making Silksong a queer masterpiece and a brilliant social commentary

[dusky bay]

How strong is karmalita...

[gentle aspen]

jealousy because she thinks hornet and shakra are a thing

[sinful nimbus]

So true

[gentle aspen]

strong enough for hornet to mention it in her wntry

[ember river]

I found the courier's rasher actually harder than the delicate flower

[foggy fractal]

small ice floating guy, big ice floating guy, floating guy, big round weaver robot

[vestal swan]

As strong as karmelita

[foggy fractal]

that's it I think

[gentle aspen]

on the way to actually delivering the thing? There’s nothing that’ll hit you

[dusky bay]

Tbh after 1 or 2 trails it's easy
Plus you can do it after getting double jump which is what I did on my second speedrun playthrough

[gentle aspen]

All except one of the enemies you listed is just clawline fodder

[sinful nimbus]

Why are driftlins so poetic

[ember river]

I still found it harder

[gentle aspen]

cuz they’re high

[sinful nimbus]

Also Fayforn is their mom fr

[ember river]

That's very possible

[foggy fractal]

yeah I know these enemies don't do shit three of them are floating in place 😭

[sinful nimbus]

This has always irked me

Like my first though reading the journal was that this pissed me off

[dusky bay]

Like she united the whole skarrs with her voice
Even protected them with her voice from gms I think...
But grew old and weak...
If hornet mentions how strong she is
She has to be a big threat to weavers

[sinful nimbus]

No one uses "but" like that

[ember river]

Why? Hornet likes fluffly things

[ember river]

You're very wrong

[foggy fractal]

silksong pmo.

[sinful nimbus]

I mean that too

Why do we have like 5 entries dedicated to Hornet liking fluffy things

[ember river]

To drive the point home

[foggy fractal]

because TC wanted to her to like fluffy things

[sinful nimbus]

Where's my commentary on the actual enemy

I know its fluffy

[foggy fractal]

go back to hallownest and ask hunter

[sinful nimbus]

True...

[edgy barn]

They do have the same little horns.

[sinful nimbus]

Fayforn higher being is real

[spice hearth]

anyone know the lore reason for why the memorium was built?

[dusky bay]

She has been training in the hive for decades
She probably got used and grown around the fluffy bees
So she is used to having a soft spot to "soft" and fluffy things
ba-dum-tssssss

[ember river]

No

[vestal swan]

Half-assed attempt at turning the things they conquered into a zoo

[sinful nimbus]

Why

[gentle aspen]

Zoo

[sinful nimbus]

GMS is a higher being but not ts?

[ember river]

I've seen some people compare Fayforn to something akin to a dragon, a mythical super strong creature

[ember river]

Stop throwing higher being around so often fucking hell

[vestal swan]

It's just a big bird looking thing, it's ability is being fluffy?

[sinful nimbus]

Hollow Knight has never had Dragon higher beings

[ember river]

Higher beings are batshit strong and literal gods

[sinful nimbus]

Not GMS

[frosty gate]

A very abusive from what it seems

[spice hearth]

ok, but whats with that wieird tablet on the east side of the building, i dont remember exactly what it said but it was something about the status of the areas and one of them was being forgotten or smth

[ember river]

GMS is severely weakened and constrained

[sinful nimbus]

How was she constrained when she was strong

[dusky bay]

If you looked at memorium you can see that the leaf enemies from verdania are dead on the ground and even the lily pads being there
Maybe when they stole those stuff verdania's eco system fell which made it die

[ember river]

And yet she is still mind controlling 90% of Pharloom

[vestal swan]

Yes they were making a half-assed attempt to preserve the things that they were destroying

[sinful nimbus]

Meh

[ember river]

She wasn't when she was free, and then she literally ruled unopposed

[frosty gate]

Quarter-assed

[dusky bay]

That's why she is easier than radiance trust...

[sinful nimbus]

How did her creations constrain her if she was that strong

Meet potential higher being

[ember river]

They had to conspire, she's not omniscient.
She also probably trusted them enough for that to happen

[gentle aspen]

It’s just stating the status of the areas they’re attempting to conserve with verdania being 100% gone

[foggy fractal]

we know that Fayforn seems to be the species given the cloak dialogue
Fayforn also could grant gifts like the faydown cloak, offer insight or kill at least Weavers
that's about all I know, fayforn is pretty odd

[sinful nimbus]

What does that even mean

[ember river]

That the weavers didn't show up and beat her ass

[sinful nimbus]

"Yeah guys we're going to throw you a big party on the cradle just ignore the giant trap"

[ember river]

They set up a trap, that's stated

[vestal swan]

Is the alternate ending where it ends like Bug's Life

[ember river]

Not to mention Weavers are batshit strong themselves

[sinful nimbus]

Back in my day it took entire vessels to trap higher beings and it didn't even work

[dusky bay]

I wonder
Why does seth forget everything when you get nyleth's heart even tho nyleth is already dead but somehow blooms her heart
And how does seth even find his name even tho he forgets it

[ember river]

And yet they couldn't kill GMS

[vestal swan]

Where they get GMS out on the mountain and call the fayhorn

[regal crow]

Wtf is this place. I thought this was a blasted steps video, but nope

https://youtu.be/Z155IFzE5f4?si=v3kYLmp7LADrF4_9

[ember river]

That's because Radiance was a dream god

[sinful nimbus]

If there mother is so weak why would they be so strong

[dusky bay]

Ahem
Path of pain silksong

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah so she be stronger than GMS who is a weakling

[vestal swan]

It's what's at the top of the region, more wastes

[ember river]

Because GMS isn't weak

[sinful nimbus]

But she got trapped easily

[dusky bay]

Like??

[foggy fractal]

its the surface, also just watch the video

[regal crow]

Doesn’t look very painful

[royal elbow]

I think Fayforn is on the level of like, Bardoon.

[ember river]

She got trapped, and neither permanently nor safely

[gentle aspen]

the surface?

[dusky bay]

I didn't say the top
I meant reaching it...

[ember river]

So it seems

[gentle aspen]

read the title

[sinful nimbus]

It only didn't work because the conductors were idiots

[ember river]

False

[sinful nimbus]

Proof

[dusky bay]

Mr mushroom achievement staring at the people who don't know about the surface

[ember river]

Otherwise why would the weavers leave or pass down the citadel

[sinful nimbus]

They died

[ember river]

Yeah that's why no weaver ever left

[dusky bay]

Like
What happened
How did nyleth control seth or what
Like
Wha

[ember river]

And Hornet spontaneously generated

[gentle aspen]

I mean even in the instance the abuser can’t get to you anymore you’re still scared of them

[sinful nimbus]

Idk why you are assuming Herrah and co. fled the citadel

[ember river]

Occam's fucking razor, you're doing more loops than a racecar to justify GMS being weak

[sinful nimbus]

How is that at all applicable here

[regal crow]

There any way to kill those platforming bugs? Looks like it’d go in the journal

[ember river]

Which is expected in the midgame fight after she was recently awoken

[sinful nimbus]

I didn't mention the difficulty of her fight at all you're shadowboxing